The Search For Bigfoot

For centuries, cultures around the world have told tales of "wild men" lurking in the woods, and reports of these creatures continue in the modern day. So what exactly is Bigfoot? Join the guys as they interview David Bakara, the creator of Expedition: Bigfoot, to learn more about his search for the creature and the inspiration behind his museum.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn the stuff they don't want you to know. Hello,

(00:23):
welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my
name is No. They call me Ben. You are you?
And that makes this stuff they don't want you to know.
Let's travel back in time briefly for a second. Can
I do my waynes World grip off? Please do perfect? Yeah? Yeah, yeah.
We're there now, We're there, We're there, We're we're near

(00:43):
Ella j Georgia. Several months back when the three of us,
along with our compatriot Christopher Hasiotis, traveled to see Expedition
Bigfoot with an exclamation mark? Do you remember? Do you remember? Guys?
How could I forget? And if you were not lucky
enough to be with us when we made that first

(01:06):
expedition to Expedition Bigfoot, Uh never feared because we made
a documentary, right short documentary available for free on Amazon Prime,
where we interviewed the creator of Expedition Bigfoot, David Bickara himself.
That's correct, man. He told us some incredible stories, I mean,

(01:27):
some of that stuff about Bigfoot going across the highway
and truckers seeing it, Bigfoot shimmering in and out. It
was incredible stuff. Again, if you haven't seen it, go
there now. And it was sort of like a shallow,
sort of a toad dip into the Bigfoot waters. But
today we are lucky enough to have the very same
David Bakara in the studio with us to take a

(01:47):
deep dive into said waters. Hello, all right today, sir,
I'm great, great to be back with you. Oh yeah,
thank you so much for I mean, because one of
the things that a lot of folks wrote to us
about after they saw the documentary, as they asked us
where the podcast was going to be? Where was where
was the audio version of this? So we want to

(02:10):
thank you so much for taking the time to come
and talk with us and our audience today. We have
a couple of questions for you, and mainly what we'd
like to do is uh, learn more about your story,
learn more about your quest, learn more about expedition Bigfoot,
and I guess the most the most logical place to

(02:31):
start is uh, if no one had ever heard a
Bigfoot or YETI or an abominable snowman, skunk gape or
skunk gape. Yeah, and they asked you, what is Bigfoot?
What would you say? Bigfoot has been here for a
long time to be very difficult to think at this
point to find somebody that had not heard about him.

(02:52):
But I could answer your questions by saying you could
pick up about any book on folklore in your local
community that can almost guarantee you that a big Foot
like creature is gonna pop up in there. They're really
all over every small town. They've been writing a bottom
since they're late eighteen hundreds. Easily you can find them
at all kinds of books. But it's any Harry helmeted that,

(03:16):
Rome's North America and every continent on the planet you
can find. They all have different names for them. They've
been writing a bottom for hundreds of years. You can
find them at artwork from the early European period. The
Germans French had all kinds of wood carvings depicting the
wild man. So they've been here for a very long time.
It's probably gonna be pretty hard to find somebody that

(03:37):
hasn't heard about the big hairy man of the woods.
Aren't there even Native American sculptures and masks that were
made of a creature of this sort. Yeah, absolutely, and um,
it's funny when you look at it, it's the only
mask you look at and Native American art that always
has pursed lips. When you see a mask with purse lips,

(03:58):
it's almost always gonna be a sas squatch of the
Harry type creature, because they always spoke of these things
making strange whooping sounds or howling sounds. So almost every
time you see the face mask of a sasquatch, they'll
have purse lips. So these organisms, despite being considered cryptids
right or unidentified animals by a lot of the Academy

(04:23):
for lack of a better word, uh, these organisms have
been uh acknowledged or described in uh not just folklore,
but anecdotes and stories going back across multiple cultures and continents.
Oh yes, yeah, absolutely, Um, the Himalayas have been talking
about him to every continent has them. I think if

(04:45):
people ever really delved, it took an hour, actually thirty
minutes out of the day because everything is so available
on Google on the Internet. Now, if you just typed,
simply typed in Bigfoots of the World, you'd be there
for two days reading that. Oh, trust me you especially
if you're about to make a documentary about Bigfoot. Oh wow,
it's a rabbit hole. So many um zoologists or biologists

(05:10):
or cryptozoologists tend to describe creatures or organisms in terms
of their diet or you know, like the almost like
the specs of the creature, like the diet, the behavior,
which I think will be a big part of this interview.
And um, the the physical range or territory. Is there

(05:31):
is there any information that you have encountered regarding diet
or range. The diet closely resembles that of a grizzly
bear or black bear. Um. I think that's how they've
managed to narrow or best guestimate the population, which would
be a minimum of up to about ten thousand in
North America. Loan, because we figured with their size, their

(05:54):
metabolism would be similar to that of a bear, which
would require approximately ten thousand calories a day. They're prevalent
all over the coastline of the United States. Not the
only place you would see much less reports of them
would be in the desert and in the in the
midwest of the United States, Okay, the flat lands. M H.

(06:15):
I got a question for you. So you talk about
how their metabolism is similar to a bear and their
stature would be similar to a bear. How do you
discount the notion that maybe people that say they were
seeing a big foot weren't seeing some other creature like
a bear that can stand on two legs. Oh yeah,
I'm sure a few of the sidings that people that
that think they saw a bigfoot probably was a bear,

(06:36):
because a bear can't stand on two feet, And I
think somebody from the city or somebody that isn't familiar
with bears could get that could be mixed up like that.
But I want a hunter who's hunting bears reports seeing one. Um,
I'm quite sure that he knows the difference between a
standing bear and uh an eight or nine or ten
foot long sasquatch. Bears have very short arms when they're

(06:57):
standing u sasquatch when they stand up, their hands hang
below their knees, and sask question is a very strange,
very unique form of locomotion. They can run incredibly fast
on two legs, and then they can transition to four
legs and run even faster. And as far as I know,
I know of in no other animal that can transition

(07:18):
from quadruped to biped and then back down again. Talk
a little bit about some of the more let's say,
mystical abilities I guess are more um, supernatural abilities that
have been ascribed to some big Foot sightings that you mentioned,
things like teleportation even or some sort of psychic abilities
to manipulate things. When you talk about that a little bit, yeah, sure, Um,

(07:42):
Now I've personally never experienced any of these things before,
but I do not discount them just because I have
not experienced them. I've stood in front of some wonderfully
honest sincere witnesses. Some of them, even though the event
happened years before, they start to relive it, and they
they'll start to cry. Um, it's it's just amazing when

(08:02):
you start to relive that kind of fear, you can
see it. It's funny. One of the Indian legends about
the Sasquatch was when these young Sasquatch had become adults,
that their test was they had to stand in front
or run in front of somebody walking on a trail
and wave their arms in front of that person, whether
it be a hiker or traveler, and that person could

(08:24):
not see them. That was that was the right of adulthood.
That's when you could do that, you were graduated in adulthood.
And that's an old Indian legend. Like a camouflage of sorts.
I've seen some videos online that supposedly are some kind
of creature that is blending in like the Predator, I mean,
very very much like you from the movie The Predator. Yeah, exactly.

(08:46):
Um And there are creatures that do something like that
in nature that we know of and have been cataloged.
Um it. I don't know of any I know, I
don't know of any ape. I don't know of any hominid.
They could do that, but it you know, who's to
say that biology doesn't exist? Well, exactly, there's the cuttle
fish and the octopus can both mimic their surroundings. They

(09:08):
change the structure and the texture of their skin, and
they use the They can change the pigment the color
to exactly match the background, which is really all these
things are doing. They're not really disappearing. I mean I
have had people say they do disappear, but nobody has
any proof of that. But people do say that they
mimic their surrounds. We can almost see through them unless

(09:29):
they're moving. When the moving, you can see them. So
there's there is some science behind the generality that these
things can um mimic their surroundings and you can't see them.
But um, there's a lot of good people that there's
and there's a few good videos out now where people
have got some of this behavior. So what you're actually

(09:49):
looking at is is something moving in the woods, and
when it's stopped, it's almost invisible. When it starts to
walk again, you can clearly see a bipedal creature walking
and it's just sort of bending the light, so you're
not getting a clear exact view of what's behind it,
but it's pretty darn close. But well, like I said,
when they stand still invisible, but when they move you
can see them. That's interesting because full disclosure, I am

(10:14):
not a biologist, so I don't want to get too
too deep into this, but um, it's fascinating that you
bring up the abilities of uh an octopus or a
cuddle fish because the the cells that manipulate coloration on
those creatures are called chromatophores, and I think I don't

(10:36):
know of any mammal that as crematophores. I think the
coloration carrying cells are melanocytes, which is about all I know,
as I'm sure biologists trying to in my head when
I'm thinking about that, it would be akin to the
skin cells, I want to say, on a mammal, which

(10:56):
you know, if you've got a lot of hair around
that skin, it's hard for me to fathom being able
to camouflage the hair itself unless they also have some
kind of specialized cells on them. Um. Yeah, that's fascinating, man.
We we also before we get as you can tell,
we have a lot of questions. We have no no
dearth of questions here. But one of the things that

(11:19):
we really wanted to explore with you today is your
inspiration for creating this museum. The thing that got us
I think when we first well before we even got
into the door, you know where there's the setups with
this uh, this very adventurous music playing and it's cinematic, uh,

(11:42):
and it's compelling and it's sort of uh immersed us instantly,
and it made us wonder, like from the jump, what
inspired you? When I was twelve years old, I went
and saw that movie like so many other folks did,
the Legend of Boggy Creek Church pierced. That is actually
the first film he'd ever made, and I think it

(12:04):
grows like twenty six million dollars, which is practically have
heard of concerning what a shoestring budget was. He'd even
have to pay actors. It used mostly their witnesses. I
think that's what made the film so credible was that
a lot of people portrayed in the film where the
actual witness that had happened to So it wasn't really
a movie. It was more of a doc you drama,
and everything in the in the movie basically happened just

(12:27):
the way he laid it out, except for some minor changes.
So my brother, after we saw that movie, I think
we were really moved because the building was based on
a true story, and the more we thought about, the
more amazed I was. I was growing up in Florida.
We had the Everglades just outside of us. My dad
used to take us air voting and whatnot. I just
thought bizarre, I mean, those things could be in the

(12:48):
Everglades because it's so similar to what Arkansas is, like
the swamps in Arkansas. So we just consumed everything we
could as children, and I mean everything every TV show,
every r a coal um over the years. So that
was my inspiration was that movie Charles B. Pearson. He
really did me a favorite because here's this fella made
this movie which if he would have told anybody was

(13:10):
making they would have said, my god, you're wasting your
money and your time. And here this guy makes it
his first movie and it's a huge box office success
because I think that people were lined up to see
this movie. There's some sort of very built in curiosity
about these creatures that most people wouldn't even consciously acknowledge.

(13:35):
But if you you put a movie up like that,
or it touches something, and I think so there is
a there's an innate curiosity about these people just want
to know. Just to jump in on the the curiosity
and the the thought of a big foot, I think
somewhere it taps into the fear of perhaps not being

(13:57):
the apex predator that humans are currently on the planet,
that there is something bigger out there than us, stronger
than us um that maybe has abilities beyond what we
can do, that we maybe couldn't even fight off. And
you know what's interesting about that is that the shore
over them over like the global statistic view, uh man

(14:20):
is the most successful apex predator in has terms of numbers,
but in certain regions of the world, for instance, uh,
far Eastern Siberia being one, man is not the apex
predator because it tigers are still around. Yeah, but you
still have technology, so like you yeah, okay, all right,

(14:42):
but you know, I think that's an interesting perspective, and
I think it's valuable for this because it's very easy
for uh, it's very easy for our species to exist
in sort of a bubble, you know what I mean,
most people, uh, and this myself included, most people are
not out hunting the food they eat, right, They're going

(15:04):
to a grocery store, and most people are as a result,
that's just one example. Most people are a little bit
further and further detached from the natural world, you know.
So I always thought it was fascinating when when people
would say, you know, when people would talk about apex predators.
But it sounds like Mr. Piccard, It sounds like you're

(15:28):
saying that a big foot would not necessarily be a
predatory creature, right, Like it's because if it has the
diet of a bear, it's omnivorous, right, it would be
omnivorous for sure, but you can't define these creatures by
normal zoological terms and classifications. I've heard stories of there's

(15:50):
one in particular story. I fell it wasn't hunting for
hog from a tree stand and he could see this
family of hogs come under his stand, probably seventy five
eight yards away. So I'm gonna get me. I'm gonna
get me a nice a nice sow or maybe a
nice little piglet. And as he's watching these things, he's
getting ready for a shot. And then you see something
jump to a tree off to the left, and it

(16:12):
jumps to another tree, and now he's not watching the
pigs anymore. He's watching this big hairy shape jump from
tree to tree. Wasn't walking, he was jumping from tree
to tree, hide behind the tree. Finally leaped into the
middle of these, grabbed a great, big boar hog by
the leg, bashed it against a tree, then grabbed another

(16:34):
one with the other hand and stuffed it under his arms.
So he's got a live one squeal and under his arm,
he's got a big board he just beat to death.
Sticks into his other arm, and then turns around and
looks at this guy in the tree as if that's
how you hunt pigs mine. You see how it kind
of mixed it's it's it's all mixed up. It just
doesn't hardly make any sense their stories after stories like that,

(16:57):
where these things no, you're in a tree stand or
the know you're hunting, and they'll just kind of push
your buttons. So um, yeah, I mean this could go
on and on with a very strange behavior that is
not just doesn't go along with our classifications. So in
the in the in the museum, one thing that we

(17:18):
all noticed and spent a lot of time on is
that are the wealth of anecdotes right, the wealth of
witness testimonies, and there are also uh some recreated scenes
right in the museum. And I was wondering if you
could tell us in the audience a little bit more
about what can be found in the museum. You know,

(17:42):
that's a great question because like some museums, they they're
going to present thanks to you in one specific idea
or some fashion, and I work, well, we work hard
not to do that. Where I want to present everything
to you. I'm just gonna lay it out in front
of you because these creatures and behavior so complex. I'm
getting ready to add six more exhibits back in the

(18:04):
conference room, and I'm making sure to mix them up
so that you're not just seeing a hair sample. We're
trying to present behavior to you that makes you really think, Wow,
these things that they just they just don't act like
an animal. Some of it's a little disturbing. Someone's a
little scary. Um, I don't have anything in there where
they're hurting people. I'll tell you what. I'll just kind

(18:25):
of cheet and I'm gonna tell you one of these
I'm working on as a fell out in Falk, Arkansas.
And Um, he had a hundred twenty pound Corsi dog.
I mean it's sort of like a pit bull on
steroids because there's just tough, tough. These things can take
a bear down. And Uh, this dog at his was
had just had babies, had just had puppies. He lives

(18:48):
out very close to the swamp, very far out of town,
and he had working in his back gard went to
and here's a growl coming from the swamp and his
little dog, this hundred twenty pound course, she bows all up.
She's getting ready to grab the sink, but she knows
she's got puppies. In this little pen behind her. So, uh,

(19:09):
this gentleman has all kinds of big foot. He's already
seen two big foots in the area over the years.
Lived there, raised there his whole life. So he ends
up leaving, going to town, him his wife have They
runs to town to get something. The dog goes back
in her pen. He goes to town. He comes back
a few hours later, just before dark. He said, as
soon as I pulled into my into my driveway, I

(19:30):
knew that something was wrong, he said. I couldn't put
my finger up, but I knew something was wrong. Say,
I get on my car, went right to my right
to this little area ten by ten metal shed that
I had built for the dog, and something had barged
its way, just tore right through the galvanized steel, grabbed
my d twenty pound dog that is meaner than snot this,

(19:52):
she is so mean, grabbed it by a rear right
leg and beat her against a tree on both sides
until all her bones were sticking out. It actually ripped
her rare cord almost completely out man and then of
course it had stomped all her puppies to death too,
So whatever it was didn't eat her. It just beat
her against a tree five to six ft up in

(20:12):
a tree. I don't know what in the world is
going to do that. I don't know any bear or
a human that's going to do that, but it's one
of those getting ready to go out there and get
a piece of this of this pen to display. It's
quite possible that the way we're looking at it was
a horrible mean act. Maybe this bigfoot had a child
in the area and was not able to leave. And

(20:33):
in this in this dog, she wasn't panned up. She
was only in the pen to take a her puppies,
but she was free to roam during the day. It's
quite possible that this big foot or whatever it was,
was a purely instinctual protective behavior. So we don't understand it.
But it's one of those things. I'm gonna ready to
go out. I'm going to get a piece of this gate.
It's gonna be mounted up there with the story. So
it's a little disturbing, but it's a complex story. And

(20:56):
I think I would be cheating people if I just
if I just laid it out to you as some
sort of a fairy tale. It's not a fairy tale.
And and it makes people think, Uh, there's lots of
other exhibits coming. I don't want to tell you. I
want you to come in and see them because they're
extremely surprising. Um, but that that's the kind of stuff
that we like. The people too when want that, we
want those gears rolling. I mean, this is interesting jumping

(21:19):
off point where we see Bigfoot so much in pop culture. Obviously,
one use of the mythology is in horror movies where
you have like a stalker ish Bigfoot that's like killing
teens at a summer camp and I'll let Jason vorhees
or something like that. And there's tons of super schlocky movies. Uh.
But Boggy Creek there were several sequels, and then they're

(21:39):
obviously ones that are more focusing on Bigfoot as some
sort of like, you know, murderous creature. Um, but it
seems to me like you feel like it's a much
more compassionate, potentially compassionate, like human like creature that protects
it's young and isn't necessarily out to overtly harm anybody
unless it's involved, you know, protecting its family. All right. Um.

(22:04):
A good friend of mine, Mark d Worth, who was
an Ohio investigator for the b f RROW. He published
her a report not too long ago about a gentleman
who's just retired from the bar. He's a lawyer, and
um he never came out with his story until after
he retired for obvious reasons. And when he was camping
with his family in Kentucky when he was about six
seven years old, he became separated from his family out

(22:27):
in the woods and he was crying, stumble around trying
to get back to the campsite, and he said, a
giant Harry ape One picked me up, carrying me back
to the campsite. My parents weren't there. They're on in
the woods looking for me. And he says that this
I can't remember the exact if this thing howled or
it screamed, but that, but that she dropped him off

(22:48):
of that campsite, and the parents came running back and
he was there, and he said, I told my parents
that it was a giant Harry ape Win picked me
up and carried me brought me back here, and they
all said, well, it must have been a bear. He
always said, no, oh mommy, it was not a bear.
So he kept that story to himself until after he retired,
he went on record when I was very young saying

(23:10):
that he remembers exactly what it looked like and what
it smelled like. It was not a bear, It was
a giant harry woman that actually saved him. So again
here's another example, two complete opposite sides at the spectrum.
And it's just another way, just another reason that when
a lot of people get into this, you just can't
walk away from it. It's the greatest mystery and the heart.

(23:31):
The more you dig, the more complex it gets. You
never really get a whole lot more answers where you
can nail it down. It just gets more interesting. And
speaking of digging, speaking of vocalizations noises, we are going
to continue exploring Bigfoot with David Pakara, the creator of
Expedition Bigfoot. After a word from our sponsor, and we're

(24:01):
back with David Bakara of Expedition big Foot, the curator
and creator of the museum. Now, David, I want to
get into something that is highlighted at the museum, and
it's called the Sierra Sounds, and let's let's talk about
what exactly that is. So Ron Moore had spent three years, Uh,

(24:23):
he's an entrepreneur out in uh northern California, and he's
spent used to go hunting with these gentlemen way out
in this remote area, and the Sierras couldn't drive to it.
You had to you had to take horseback for miles
and miles to this very treacherous trail to get up
to this area where they had a small little it
was not even a shack. They just took a bunch

(24:44):
of deadfall and stacked it up, kind of made like
a little shelter to get him out of that, to
get him out of the weather. And they would spend
a week there hunting. They had little camp there. Every
time they come they bring a little bit more, a
little bit more. They had a little camp where they
could cook up and they would hunt deer, and it
was like a kind of guy's getaway. It wasn't very
big up at the shack probably wasn't more than ten
by ten. It was just a little lean to Really,

(25:07):
i'm looking at it right now, it's like a little
wooden box with like a ladder kind of looking thing
on the slidder, like a hatch, just a big log.
They'd roll out of the way to get in and
then to shut it. They just roll it back into place.
And after a few years, Uh, these fellows started hearing
some very strange noises and vocalization is coming. Something was
coming into the camp, rattling the pots around, and then
they started finding some very strange footprints. Finally realized what

(25:31):
probably was going on. So they had contacted a fella
named Al Berry who was a reporter for one of
the local newspapers there. And now they told Al the
story and he was like, this is these guys are hoaxing.
This can't be really happening. There's just no way, he said,
I'll go, but I'm just I know they're just jerking
me around. So he brought at the top of the

(25:52):
line sony recording equipment thin get out there. They set
up runs. I think he ran the microphone out to
some food some seventy or eighty feet away from this
from the shack. And uh, I'll be darned if you
didn't spend a couple of days recording these things. It's
funny when you listen to them, when you listen to
the sounds, and you can get the DVD is available

(26:12):
at from Ron Moorehead from his website. Actually let's do
some of that right now. There are a few available
on YouTube. Let's hear some grace. Oh man, It's like

(26:44):
you first hear it and my my, my mind immediately
goes to it's some sort of like turkey pig hybrid thing.
But then it starts doing something completely different and goes
into these vocalizations that are distinctly human and the kinds
of things you can only make by opening and closing
your mouth in a certain shape, you know, and it's
very otherworldly. I mean I tend to, you know, be

(27:05):
a little bit skeptical about some of this kind of stuff,
but man, that is a compelling sounding recording and not
heard anything like that kind of gives me shivers. For me.
It's the quality, like you're saying, David, that it makes me.
It makes me feel iffy about it because it sounds
so good. It sounds like it's so close to where
whatever is being you know, whatever microphone they're using. It

(27:25):
sounds like it's pretty darn close. It's not up on
a ridge or something and you're like shooting way down
there unless you've got some like really really incredible equipment.
So what you just heard, ladies and gentlemen as as
David was describing, are the famous Sierra sounds, largely considered
by many people investigating Bigfoot to be some of the

(27:48):
strongest evidence, right, strongest audio evidence. Sure, and just face value.
I think you can hear it and you realize it's
something very strange. But there's a nice gentleman by the
name of got Nelson out in Minnesota, I believe, whose
son was doing a high school report and the Sierra sounds.

(28:08):
And he's a retired Navy crypto linguist, so that's what
he did. He used to sit in the Seven Marines
off the coast of Russian China, and he's dropping our conversation.
So you have to pick up little pieces of it
and form whole sentences because sometimes they go in out.
So I don't know how many different languages he speaks,
but he's an expert. And he's in the other room
working on something, and he hears his son playing these

(28:28):
sounds on his computer. Comes he says, what are you
listening to? He says, Oh, this is something called c
R sounds. Supposedly Bigfoot's howling at each other. He says,
play that again. He just happened to be in the
right place at the right time. Just play it again.
Son plays again. He says, let me see that. Pulls
out the fire and he starts playing it over and go,
and he says, that's a language. Those that these things

(28:49):
aren't ground at each other. He said, he said when
he ran him through a filter, slowed them down. He says,
my god, these things they have their own language. So here,
this poor guy goes from being totally uninterested third party
just happened to be when they're when his son was
playing with it, listening to on his computer. He wrote
a whole book, our whole series of papers on this language.

(29:11):
He can actually repeat some of these words, almost like
you're hearing it. He says, I have no idea what
I'm saying. I'm just repeating. But he says, you had
to slow them down to just so he could say
the words. These things actually speak twice as fast as
we can speak. So um. So here you have a
Navy cryptolink was saying, who was a specialist, says, this

(29:31):
isn't sounds. These are language. It makes me think of
some stuff you'd hear in like Star Wars, for example,
where you've got characters that have this sort of nonsensical
sounding language where there are distinct like phonemes and kind
of word patterns and shapes or whatever, and specifically patterns.
And you can hear that in the recording that we
just played, where it's not nonsense. There's a sort of

(29:52):
rhyme and reason to it, especially once it gets going
and starts getting into the more of those guttural tones,
and there's a motion in it too. I find like
it is it is not sound completely breast of any
kind of feeling. It's got this like kind of quality
of like really trying to communicate to it, whether or
not you understand the language or not, I think you
get that sense. I think the Mike. I'm pretty sure
that at some points that Mike was sitting over a

(30:14):
pile of leftover food. So when you're hearing a lot
of is these things arguing over who gets what? Wow?
And this brings up something else that we want to
ask you about on air, because in our original conversations
you talked about some of the long distance communication methods
that these life forms would use, specifically knocking on wood.

(30:38):
Could you tell us a little bit about that? Yeah, sure,
So a lot of the BF row members. A lot
of bigfooters now are are employing wood knocking techniques because
when these things are out the woods, you hear what
sounds like wood knocks being associated with them. So there's
all kinds of theories floating around. One of them is
maybe these things doing wood knocks when they when they

(31:01):
sense the human being, which so which when we're doing
wood knocks, we're defeating our own which is a pretty
ironic theory, and I'm almost to the point where I
think it's got some validity to it. So yeah, So,
and some people think they do it these wood knocks
to echolocate each other. Hey, i'm over here, they do
a wood knock over, I'm over here, a third one
over here. Sometimes that you think they sound like they're

(31:23):
doing rock clacks, And some folks have actually observed them
making these sounds with their mouth, so we think they're
doing wood knocks, but they're actually making these sounds with
their mouth. They're amazing the sounds that maybe things they
can mimic. It's very possible that's exactly what's going on.
Because if you do a wooden knock, if you're in
the woods and it's two o'clock more I have the

(31:45):
stick in my hand, I do a good clear woodknock.
How in the world can I get a reply wood
knock within two seconds? I would dare anybody stand out
the woods, find me a stick and make a wood knock.
They're almost all rotten. I've done it before. They're walking out.
Watch how they go do a wood knock? Well, this
no good, This is no no. This one's smacking. And
I think I thought to myself one time, I my goodness,

(32:06):
how can they be doing this because I can't even
find us. That might take me seven or eight minutes
to find something well enough. And then I got to
break it off because it's ten ft long. I'm a
club out of it. So there's definitely some validity to
the theory where these things are making. That's those sounds
with their mouth. So one of the other big questions

(32:26):
that people would have if they're if they're coming into
this from you know, square one, would be, uh, we
would go back to the idea of like physical evidence, right,
So one of the big questions would be if there
are creatures this large from a population North America of
thirty to ten thou If if they're that many, then

(32:50):
one of the questions would be where where our bones?
Would you know there's fecal matter? Um? Where are evidence
of for instance, like um guerrillas tend to make nests? Right,
So one of the questions that people have asked us
before is where what happens to this stuff? Or does

(33:11):
this stuff exists? You know, like is there is there
something there to find? What a great question because it's
something that serious bigfooters asked themselves, probably in private, Why
am I not finding more stuff? So the people that
come into the museum and said, I just I don't.
I just know I want to believe, I just I

(33:32):
just don't understand how they can, and they're actually it's
a very honest question. We really should be finding more stuff.
Why aren't that? We've we've dug up giant skeletons, you know,
as they were building the infrastructure United States late nineteenth
century twentieth century, they dug up all kinds of giants skeletons,

(33:52):
but they didn't find any giant fossils. Why do we
not find these things in the fossil records? If there's
thousands of them now, there should be hundreds of thousands
of them buried out there. We should be digging up
a lot more fossils other than a few teeth from
the giganti Pathecus and giganti Pathecus Blackie and China and
Russia found in some caves. It's really all we have.

(34:14):
We're trying to reconstruct the whole species from a few
moltor I think a partial jaw. So, yes, there were
we do have evidence of giant apes, but these apes,
these Gigantipathecus, were never proven to be bipedal. There were
just basically that giant apes that walked around like big
monkeys on all fours. These things the primary walk around

(34:36):
on on two feet now, so we're not sure if
they're the same thing. There. What a great question. I
don't know. I have my theories as to why we're
not finding more stuff, a lot of stuff. A lot
of people can walk by things in the woods and
not realize what it is. Oh, look, elk are nesting.
There could be big foots. I mean so a lot
of the of their habitats may look like another animal,

(34:58):
so unless you're looking for them, you might not recognize
what you're saying. People find structures, and it was all
the time. They send us pictures at these big hut
like things. I had a guy kind of museum told
me he found one that was almost ten ft tall.
He could walk in and not hit his head on it.
It's huge. It's stunk in there. Um. He said he
was too, he was so afraid to go in it.

(35:20):
And he was with a friend of his and he
sent me pictures, show me pictures on his phone, and
he said nothing was acted. There was everything it makes broken,
and it had all kinds of leaves and matter to
make like a little hot out of it. So did
a big footmaker. I don't know, but this guy was convinced.
Why would somebody make something so big that was a
lot of effort put in there? And then people find

(35:40):
these little structures like uh like t piece where it
really doesn't afford any kind of protection from the elements whatsoever.
We wonder if there's some kind of a blind where
they hide in them to break up their silhouette for
game on the edge of a game trail. But then again,
on the other hand, do you hear people say these
seeings stink? If I can smell these things a fifty
ft I'm sure a deer is gonna smell it. And

(36:00):
and a void them and you know, maybe they use
these little structures as markers for other big foot. Hey,
this is my territory. So but what a great question.
We really should be finding more things, uh, overt evidence
of their existence out in the woods. They don't farm,
they don't use tools, they don't raise anything. These things

(36:22):
just live hand to mouth daily. Yet they're intelligent. So
at some point, some some juncture in a big footer's life,
you have to start thinking outside the box. And some
things that people may have told you in the in
the past that you just kind of laughed off, you
didn't take it seriously, that you start to like go

(36:45):
back to some of that stuff. And that's where a
lot of researchers are doing now, not most of them,
I'd say a lot of them, most of them. So
it's um Ron Moore had the felt that wrote the
Serious Sunds. You just came up with a brand new
book called Quantum big Foot, where he just us as
quantum physics and strength theory and possibility of um, of
other universes and other realities being just within arms reach

(37:08):
of us, but we're unable to see them. But other
things are able to cross through the veil. Well, this
comes back to some of the things that we were
talking about earlier, where potentially there are there are reports
of these creatures having some sort of supernatural abilities. So
if that was the case, maybe you know, allah the
elders in the Dark Crystal movie, when they die, they

(37:30):
just sort of vanish into star stuff and they're gone.
You know. I mean, I'm just spitball in here, but
you know it's I guess what I'm getting at is like,
you know, we find new fossils, that's not a thing
that is is beyond the realm of possibility. Has found
the a new Homo sapien fossil and morocco that like
lengthened our conception of the timeline of man. But there's
a lot of human remains that are found constantly, So

(37:54):
to find to to go so long with these creatures
still supposedly exist sting and not find any you know,
displayable fossil strikes me as a little odd. So so
I have two quick things. The first one is have
you ever heard of the staircases in the woods theories? Okay,

(38:15):
so what if what if these things are somehow coming
down from some other dimension with these staircases. You guys, Oh,
that's that's it. Could you explain for I fami with
this and I just I just nodded, But for for
anyone who isn't familiar, could you break that down stairway
to heaven there? Okay? So these are accounts of, you know,

(38:38):
a story written down by somebody when they were walking
through the woods they saw a staircase in the middle,
just of the woods somewhere, and this range is the
locations for this range all over the place, and allegedly
it's like a staircase that you would find in any house.
But it just stops and it's just in the middle
of the woods. It's not like it was attached to
another house and it was broken down, and it looks
like it's broken. It's strangely in act and looks pristine. Um.

(39:02):
And you know the stories there there, these are fables
and the story goes, you know, I don't ever go
near those things because that's how people disappear in the
woods to go those staircases. Well, regardless of what you believe,
Let's be honest, guys. If you're walking in the woods
and you see a staircase by itself, why would you
walk up it just I mean from from like if

(39:23):
it's been in the woods. From a physical safety standpoint,
My theories that it's a like a fishing line with
a little hook. It's just to get your curiosity up,
so we'll try and go in there. But it's a trap.
Though that sounds like you never go up the stairs,
you know. But sorry. My my second thing, really fast

(39:45):
is just just to throw this out there. We're talking
about finding giant human skeletons. So if you go online
and you look into that very much, um like I
did after we had our conversations earlier on, it appears
that a core in two skeptical sites like Snopes and
other places like that, they say that's completely untrue. What

(40:05):
what would you say to somebody who says that, you know,
we didn't find humans giant human skeletons, Well, why would
guess as Snopes is saying we didn't find it because
we don't have them. Okay, but we we know for
a fact that that almost all of these newspaper articles
where they take up these giants, and I have to
emphasize these these were giant human skeletons. Nowhere in the

(40:26):
description of these things do they say they were like
ape like, or that the arms hung real low. All
of the descriptions of them were just giant human skeletons,
and some with double rows of teeth, which just doesn't
make any sense whatsoever. And the Smithsonian always almost all
of these end up the same way that they contact
the Smithsonian, and the Smithsonian says, well, we're gonna send

(40:48):
somebody down to collect those bones. We'll take a look
at them for you, and then they just evaporated. After that.
The Smithsonian would never comment on them. They wouldn't say
they got them. And they're just so many. It's not
one or two or three or four. There's probably in
the newspaper. I mean, it's so I mean, I know
the newspaper sometimes they print things that aren't true, but

(41:09):
once or twice, maybe times the same subject. I kind
of find that part to believe. So the Smithsonian's definitely
got them. And like I tell people, I'm not it's
possible that these things are hidden from us for a
good reason. It's possible. I'm now, I can't say that
you know, we are we'd be better if we knew

(41:30):
about them. It's possible that we wouldn't, so it wouldn't
it be ironic not the closer you get to the
answer to these creatures, the less people you could tell
a bottom It wouldn't it be even more ironic that
if somebody took you to the side into a dark
room and said, oh, I'm gonna tell you everything you
want to know, and he told you the secret to Bigfoot,

(41:50):
and when you walked out of that room, you realize
you couldn't tell anybody that you just had to live
with it, because either the answer is to disturbing or
it sounds so crazy and you have no proof that
they're not going to believe you. So it wouldn't be
all right that once you did have it, there's nobody
to tell you just have to live with it. And

(42:11):
that is the perfect set up for the final part
of our interview, The Secret Bigfoot, responding to the more
skeptically minded or or the critics or the people who
are saying what gives We'll be back after a word
from our sponsor, and we're back continuing our Bigfoot discussion

(42:41):
with David Makar of Expedition Bigfoot. My question is something
we haven't discussed in terms of why we're not finding
these bones. I was just kind of doing a little googling,
and one perspective is that we don't know how the
lifespan of these creatures could be. And if they are
some kind of you know, what's the word, I'm looking
for supernatural creatures, maybe they live a really long time,

(43:03):
and that's part of why we haven't found any bones.
And also they are apparently, you know, from all accounts,
very rare creatures. Can you respond to that in someone.
I don't know anybody that has conventure the lifespan of
one of these things. I do know that are reports
of old ones that, um, we we're seeing. Somebody was

(43:25):
fella was chopping wood in Florida, and this is back
in the forties or fifties, and one had walked out
of the woods and it must have been drawn to
the sound of wood shopping. And he said, and he said,
this thing was gray when white, it was gray, and
it was he was wheezing to catch its breath. It
actually had to put his arm on a tree to

(43:45):
catch his breath a little bit. Then after a few
seconds it started to move on again. So that's about
the only proof I have that they get old. I
would even venture to guess the whole they get. I mean,
they have no form of modern medicine that we have. Um.
I do know that the reports of the of the females,

(44:06):
as soon as the baby is born, they take it
down to the nearest creak and wash it off. And
some of those creeks are extremely cold, like too cold
for us to to uh to survive in. So it's
possible that some of that the mortality rate of of
the young ones isn't particularly high or you know, possible
they don't live long. So that's that's a good question. No,

(44:27):
I don't really know. I don't think anybody really knows,
but we do know they get old. We do know
they start off as babies, because there's plenty of reports
of of young ones. It just gets my imagination kind
of churning, like what if they live hundreds of years
and they're being so few of them. That could be
a potential reason for not finding more remains. And the
fact that you know, the woods, the forest have a

(44:49):
way of dealing with decomposition, and scavengers carry pieces off
in various directions they could and I don't know, Well, yeah,
this climate has a lot to do with the preservation
of any physical remains, and forests are hungry, hungry biomas,
So it's it takes a lot of consistent, assiduous work

(45:10):
to maintain any human structure. Uh, if you leave a
body in the forest. I don't want to get too dark,
but anyone who's checked out our previous episodes on National
Parks knows that hundreds of people just sort of disappear.
We forget how large the woods are in North America,
on this continent especially. And I've got to say before

(45:33):
the break one thing that that really uh got my
gears turning, David, when you talked about someone going into
a shadowy side room. It always reminds me of one
of those things that almost everybody assumes happens when with
with presidents, right like, oh, I'm going to reveal all
these classified secrets. I'm going to uh approve every f

(45:57):
o I A or Freedom of for Nation Act request,
and uh, and then they get elected. The joke is always,
you know, someone sits them down and says, congratulations, Mr President,
here are the things we will tell you. And if
you tell anyone and then you know, maybe they slide

(46:18):
a picture of Kennedy across the desk or something, and
I know that's I know that can be paranoid or
alarm is. But a lot of a lot of truth
is often told in just and we wanted to ask,
do do you think that there is a concerted effort
to suppress evidence or or in credible testimony of Bigfoot? Oh? Absolutely, Oh,

(46:42):
there certainly is. And like I said before, it might
be for a good reason. I don't think Bigfoot is
for everybody. I've met a lot of folks through my life,
a lot of folks that come through the museum. These
folks there is there are a no way ready to
accept the reality of a giant Harry hammetted roaming our woods,
the impervious for the most part, to our small arms

(47:04):
that can outrun a car. No, I don't think people
most people aren't ready for it. So um, there's definitely
a considered effort to keep it quiet. There's a lot
of folks that the professionals that were threatened to with
their job. Do you like working here in this biology department? Yeah?
I do you like your paycheck? Yes? I do? Then
stop talking about Bigfoot? So um. Lots some sometimes they

(47:28):
tiptoe around it. Sometimes they'll go right to them. And
say just stop talking about Bigfoot. There's no doubt that
there is a conservative effort to keep these things squashed down.
But for those that choose to keep digging, I think
you should continue to do so. I mean I do,
and I've got a lot of friends that do. But
you have to know in the back of your mind
that you're not going to go up on a mountain

(47:50):
and scream the answer to Bigfoot to all the unwilling
people you're there's only going to be a very small
amount of people that you can share this with, And
depending on what that information is, where you go next
with that. I don't know where you go next with it,
but I'm venturing to guess that that it's going to
be so disturbing that you you can't tell your mother

(48:11):
and your father, and your brother and sisters. If they're
not an interesting Bigfoot, You're not gonna be able to tellent,
and you wouldn't want to tell them. Let them have
their normal life, go to work, watch the ball games
on the weekends, go to the kids te ball against
They don't need to know about this stuff. So I've
had people call me and tell me, Hey, I think
I've got a big foot on my property and I've
got a big thirty yacht six. I'm a good hunter.

(48:32):
If I shoot this thing and I call you, will
you help me? We'll bring it. And I said, I said,
not only do I not want you to call me,
I said, lose my email address. Do not call me
if you've got a body one of these things. Because
if you think that the powers of being gonna let
you drag a dead Bigfoot body out into the world
to prove to all these unwilling people, they don't want

(48:53):
to know Bigfoot's reel. Stop, do you go as far
as you want to with Bigfoot us into your yard.
You've got one that you feed, take it as part
of you see what you can get out of it.
But said, don't try to drag the whole world into it,
because reality, most people they just don't want to know
the reality. And frankly, I can't blame them. So that

(49:15):
to me is a massive conundrum, because the one thing
that would prove Bigfoot is a body, right, that is
the one thing that everyone would be forced to say, Okay,
this thing is real, and every skeptic there's ever been,
if you have enough scientists look at the thing, do
an autopsy. You know, all the genomic research realized, Wow,

(49:36):
this thing is real, but you know, being afraid of
the consequences of finding one of those things. Trying to
put those two concepts together is, uh, that's fascinating. What
do you think even if you're just spitballing, what do
you think that secret is that would be so scary?

(49:58):
Like it? Do you no? Or do you think you know?
But I can say that that at some point in
in a person's life, if you're looking into these and
st a lot of researchers get to this point, you're
gonna You're gonna come to a ye in the road.
What are you gonna do? Do you want to get
the proof that these things are real? Or do you
want to go to the left? Do you want to

(50:19):
learn where they come from? What they're doing here? How many?
Why are they here? Why do they do the things
they do? You're either gonna have to let the proof
thing go. Just let it go, man, because you know
most of your friends know, you know, the higher ups
in the government know it's real. So most of the
people that read to accepted they already know Bigfoot's real.
So that's already done. Now let's get onto the real work.

(50:40):
Let's find out why they here, what are they doing here?
How do they get here? Why don't we find them
in the fossil records? Why aren't we why don't we
find more events? All these things we discussed, it really
leads to something to um Seth. Breed Love just released
a new film called The moth Man of Point Pleasant Sweet.
So I've been following the moth Man phenomenon because very

(51:04):
similar to Bigfoot. Not exactly the same, but it's very similar.
And uh I sat and watched some of his witnesses,
and it's just like watching a big Foot witness they're
telling you what they saw. It wasn't a fleeting shadow.
It was chasing them down in their car. It was
flying over their car. These were just regular honest people
telling you. You swear they were telling you a Bigfoot story,

(51:24):
but they're telling you instead this thing was flying chasing
it with glowing red eyes, which actually Bigfoot has been
described as having glowing red eyes, having nothing to do
with light. It just makes them glow. So you have
to take some of these creature stories that have gone
through our folklore, which maybe aren't folklore, that have very
solid witness reports, evidence, footprints, and you have to start

(51:45):
to ask yourself, where in the hell are these things
coming from? And you you'll arrive to a very unpleasant
and unconventional answer that they're not from here. They don't
live here. There's no moth man. We don't have a
off man breeding system thing out in the woods somewhere.
These things aren't mating. They don't live here. And I'm

(52:06):
starting to entertain the thought that Bigfoot's they're not here
all the time. They're just here some of the time.
And Rona moorehead is hidden nail. When he talked about
these quantum physics, about these certain animals being able to
cross veils of reality or dimensions. People call it supernatural,
some call it woo, some call it um. They have

(52:26):
other names for it. But all it really is is
just science we don't understand yet. It's all it is.
It's and and everything is every science that we understand now.
At some point in the past, it was it was
woo or supernatural. It was science. We didn't understand that.
People were afraid of it. People were burned to the
steak because people we're talking about things that they understood

(52:46):
that the rest of the world. Didn't You're a witch?
Were burning you, which is pretty much what's going on
now with a lot of of professionals talk about Bigfoot.
So it's just science we don't understand yet. And Um,
I don't have my thumb on it yet. I'm still
old dig in. I've got theories. I've got some really
good friends, very smart friends, that have their theories. We
kind of have this little brain, this brain mal we

(53:09):
all get together and share ideas and we all learned
from each other. But but like I said, I really
think that the closer you get to the answer to this,
the less people you have to tell. And I really
appreciate what you say about science we don't understand yet.
It's one of I think it refers to one of
the Arthur C. Clark quotes that we we find ourselves

(53:30):
going back to a time and again on the show,
which is um, science past a certain threshold is indistinguishable
from magic, you know, to the average person and to
and to um. There's a nice dovetail between what you
just said and Knowle's earlier questions about lifespan, because if it,

(53:50):
if it is life form that is somehow out of
phase with reality. As we know it. Then it may
also be encountering time and a different scale. That's just
me spitballing, like I just I'm winging it, not completely agree.
So I do want to ask, also, you mentioned, uh,

(54:10):
you mentioned another cryptid, and I wanted to step outside
of just the context of Bigfoot into um this sord
zoology in general. Do you think there are other, um
quote unquote cryptids that have a credible chance or or
a possibility of being real organisms? And if so, which ones?

(54:36):
Oh my god, there's just so many. Um. I definitely
think there's uh, this flying humanoid phenomenon that's been happening
for been a reporter for past sixty seventy years. I
think there's a lot of ability to that, especially when
you sit down, if you get a chance to watch
that movie and you hear these people like, oh my god,
just that right there, Yes, flying humanoid creatures. If them

(54:59):
things real, let's face it, I mean that just kicks
the barn doors wide open. Well, I actually got to
visit the Mothman Museum. End point pleasant. Not nearly as
impressive as your joint, I have to say, but hey,
it's not shade man, It's just true We actually didn't
get to tour the facility. It was they let us
in to buy some merch but it kind of got

(55:20):
to peek back in and it was just like one
little room, but really interesting town and like a similar
kind of passion from the guy that ran the store. Um.
But there's this bizarre little statue of the Mothman right outside.
He looks kind of like a Masters of the Universe
actually figure from the eighties, like a sculpted like twelfth Pack,
like a weird but there's a lot of time, but yeah,

(55:45):
it is. It is a very iconic figure there, you know.
And it was one of the full disclosure. We were
on a road trip. It was this whole situation, but
we we couldn't pass up the chance to go to
Point Pleasant. And I think I think it's evited. I
don't know how how you felt, but I think there
are people who feel it is touristy or ironic, and

(56:07):
then there are people who genuinely believe, uh, many of
whom are probably long time residents of Point Plus because
it's like you say, these accounts are very passionate. You know,
someone's not. They have no reason to make this up
other than I mean it would put them in a light.
Then maybe you don't even want to be seen and
if they didn't have a reason to actually put it
out there. But ultimately, in the end, they're just accounts, right.

(56:30):
So that's that's the hard the thing about finding actual
proof or physical proof, that's what makes it so difficult. Yeah.
I think one of the great little facet's a great
little off stories about them off man, is when they
talk about these men in black. Yes, they were visiting
these these people in the Men in Black visit UFO witnesses.
They also visit Bigfoot witnesses. So it doesn't seem be

(56:52):
like a whole armor these guys. I mean they always
show up two at a time, and um, just recently
some video was released of two of them entering a
business building. We need to talk to a guy. They
actually have photographs of them coming the same thing, all
wearing all black. But a lot of good people said
these guys were just very strange. Um, they would leave

(57:12):
people out in the field when they wouldn't change the story.
They just left him there. And so um, just that
that we act about cryptids. I mean, I don't know
our and the black cryptids. I don't think they're human.
I think there's some kind of weird hybrid, but they're
They're definitely here to keep the lid on the Pandora's box.
And that's really what it is. It's that where where

(57:33):
the lid is on Pandora's box and there are people
to make sure that lid stays on there. Because you
kicked that lid off of their all, hell's gonna break loose.
And I don't think anybody, including me, wants that that
to happen. So um, Yeah, you really have to be
careful about the about what you say, the kind of information,
and who you tell. That's why some people come in. Hey,

(57:54):
this is my brother Jim from Milwaukee. He thinks this
whole thing is ridiculous. Would you convince him that it's not. No,
he likes, He just likes. That's the way he likes it.
Or I guess the way we're gonna leave it. Ben,
you mentioned the tourism aspect of like that Mothman museum,
and you know it cut it in some ways relates

(58:14):
to Expedition big Foot as well. It's a destination that
gives you a reason to visit a place that you
might not visit otherwise, right, So, um, how do you
how do you think or how does it affect you
when you hear people talk about, oh, that's just a
tourist destination or something like that. I'll tell you something.

(58:35):
When we when we first opened up, my wife was
prepared for the onslaught of naysayers, so she actually wanted
me to prompt her and to like, Okay, what if
they say this, honey, and then what if they see
this whole? And then then what do I say? I say, honey,
just just let's just see what happens when you open
the doors. Doesn't this is not somebody running through all
kinds of weird scenarios that aren't going to happen. So well,

(58:56):
since we opened up the doors, let me tell you something,
I'll be people that come in there. There are already
people that they're either on the fence or they think
they're real, which completely knocked me and my wife off
the We're like, are you kidding me? I think maybe

(59:17):
two people have come in. We did twenty four thousand
visitors in the first eleven months last year. I've got
two people I can't remember. I'm just saying to be
somebody I can't. Somebody had to come in and say
this whole thing is nonsense. So I'm gonna say at
least two two people came in. But for the most part,
people come in. They're excited. They love this kind of

(59:39):
stuff because there's so few of these things out there anymore.
Back in the fifties and sixties or our mom's and
dads were driving around, there's all kinds of neat, little
roadside attractions. People love that kind of stuff cat you
out of the normal hum drums, same old thing. So
there's so much room. I wish somebody else would open
up another one. I'll wish up another Mothman museum, or

(01:00:00):
a lizardman museum, or a UFO museum. I think people
love that kind of stuff. It's an escape, and it's
got to be a family museum. That's why G rated
movies are still the biggest money maker, and on the
movie industry it's always g they're always the biggest money
grossers because people want to do something with their family.
I want to go somewhere with my mom and my
sister and my my and my two grandkids. So this

(01:00:23):
is this and other opportunities should be made available to
go and have fun with the whole family. You don't
have to hike up a mountain. Grandma, grandpa, mom, dad,
and the grandkids could all do it together. We need
more places like this and places they give homage to,
you know, history and folklore and mythology. I love like
any of that kind of stuff that continues those traditions.

(01:00:43):
That's that's fun. Have you ever heard of a book
or TV series called American Gods, because the three of
us have been watching the series and you never heard
of this. No, okay, it's fantastic. Neil Gaiman. Guy, he's
an author, and it's in this story. One of the
concepts that central to the plot, in the theme is

(01:01:07):
that God's exist in this In this instance, we're talking
about everything from Odin to Leprikaans and Faye people too. Yeah,
if freats all this kind of stuff. It's mythological in
a way. But one of the main tenance is that
they only exist because people believe in them. But they
really do exist because people believe in them. And I

(01:01:28):
wonder if Bigfoot in some way is like this because
we believe because you know, some people believe it is
a truly a thing. Is this going way way about.
This is an interesting idea, pretty wild man. No I
love it, No, No, I mean, but but maybe it's
if we want to ground it more in some sort

(01:01:49):
of pseudo reality. Maybe it's about whether or not they
choose to come back or not. Right like, so we're
talking about they're blipping in and out of this reality
or you know, this dementia, and maybe that is that
there's some some force that keeps them coming back. And
maybe it's some palpable version of what you're talking about,
or maybe it's just like they go to wherever they're

(01:02:10):
originally from and say, just get back from Earth, the
search for intelligent life continues, or they just get bored
and they're hanging out here because it's a little different.
I have one I have one big question that I
think a lot of people have on their mind right now.
And I wish we could get to more stuff, but

(01:02:31):
I know we may be close to the end of
the show. Uh So the question that if it's okay
with you guys, I would like for us to close on,
is to ask you what is the future of Bigfoot what?
Because we had mentioned before, um, you know, there were
concerns from some of your colleagues in the community about

(01:02:52):
the effect of human encroachment upon natural environments and uh
why I would like to hear your opinion of where
you see both the search for Bigfoot and the organism itself. Well,
there's a lot of new shows that there's a couple.
There's actually one new show out tailing Bigfoot. I'm not
sure if it's still in the air where they want

(01:03:12):
to procure specimens so they can prove to the world
it's real. There's a group out in Texas right now
called the Texas Bigfoot Conservacy that's doing the same thing.
They're trying to procure a specimen to a shooting ko
one bringing out show the whole world it's real. But
my personal opinion is that what we should do is
just continue what we're doing. Stop. That's the last thing

(01:03:33):
we should do, is to prove to the whole world
that these things are real. I've said the same thing
to my friends. I'm I'm gonna say it right now.
The first thing that's going to happen if on the
one million out of a thousand chance that this thing
ever was ever proven to be real. Number one first
thing that's can happen is they're gonna cut off our
access to them. No more citizens scientists leave this up

(01:03:56):
to the professionals, So you won't be able to go
out that was and try to set ship with these things,
or find them, or learn more. The government's gonna cease
control over the whole thing by just saying that they're
protected species. You can't. And you go on the woods
and you're looking for you're harassing them. You want to
feed up your harassing them. You make it woo knocks
and rock lacks. You're harassed and I'm knocking off. So
the worst thing you can do is proved the world

(01:04:19):
the real because the first thing that's gonna happen, we
won't be able to have access. Right now, we're pretty
much unfettered access to them. So the future is just
trying to learn more about them. Don't worry about the evidence,
learn more about them because it's extremely complex. So um,
hopefully we don't. We're not We're not gonna have anymore
proving Bigfoot is real. TV shows. I think hopefully we

(01:04:43):
have a new show that comes out or it's they're
not worried about the proof, about trying to get one
on film that that when you start getting to the behavior.
Why do they do that. I'm gonna left this sound
they left me a dead rabbit, or I lift out
a bag of apples and left me a mouse wrapped
up in the leaves or something. Get this stuff on film.
I think people would be just as curious about that

(01:05:03):
because try and spending years trying to get him on film. Well,
that's a waste of time. Man. It's very difficult just
from from killing Bigfoot's But they're little taglines right up
about it says they're determined to stop. Oh well, first
of all, it's the Gulf Coast Bigfoot Organization, which you
had mentioned, the one of the Bigfoot field researchers organization.

(01:05:27):
That's one of the other main ones. So these guys
want to stop these nuisance bigfoot from attacking people's homes
and property. Uh and including the missions harvesting a specimen
one rogue mail will be taken to prove once and
for all to science that these creatures exist. A rogue mail.
They're gonna take them down a rogue I think a
lot of people have been a rogue mail at some

(01:05:48):
top point in my life. David big Harreth, thank you
so much for coming on the show. I know that
we have, um just scratched the surface of something that
you have spent decades investigating. And not only do we
appreciate your time, but we'd like to ask uh. One
thing that we like to do on the show is

(01:06:11):
recommend places where the people in our audience can go
to for more information. And you've cited a couple of books,
but is there any other literature or any other resource
that you'd like to recommend to people to. One of
my favorite series of books is by Tom Powell, author
Tom Pollas th H O M P O W E
l L. He's a long time one of the founding

(01:06:33):
members of the b F R OH. He's done some
a lot of very important work and if you read,
he's got three books out right now. One of my
favorites is um the Locals God, just excellent book. Just
reading that one book as a matter of because there's
so many you just can't read them all. I think
just reading that one book, we'll give you a honest,

(01:06:54):
fourth right and objective you into the Bigfoot phenomenon. Fantastic,
Thank you so much. And where can people where can
people find more information about? Uh? You? David Vicara and
Expedition Bigfoot. You can find us on the web at
the Expedition Bigfoot. We've got an app, a website and
a Facebook page. You can all people post all kinds

(01:07:16):
of pictures on There's funny. A lot of museums don't
let people take pictures, but people are so excited. It's
the first thing they ask, can you take pictures? I
just didn't have the heart to tell him no, so
I and uh, I think people are relieved it. Yes,
you can come in. There's all kinds of pictures post
on us. You have an idea as to what you
can expect. There's nothing scary in there. A lot of
kids come in. It's funny because we have the music
plane and they get nervous. You can see the trepidation

(01:07:39):
as soon as they crossed the threshold, like they take
two steps and they stop, like, I don't worry. It's
just a museum. There's nothing gonna scare you back there.
But it's extremely interesting. I was gonna say that one
we took a picture with that one black what it
was It was just like, yeah, it was like a

(01:07:59):
knife a toll. Black guys watch that is very intimidating.
Not scary intimidating. Well, it's just you know, it's got presents,
right Uh, it owns the room and the and where
you guys located. We're on Highway five ninety four, Highway
five fifteen and Cherry Log, which is about four miles
south of Blue Ridge, about eight miles north of l J.

(01:08:22):
And this concludes our episode today, but not our show.
We hope that you enjoyed today's episode, and we hope
that while you are online, uh, go ahead and check
check us out to give us a give us drop
drop us a line and online missive of some sort um.

(01:08:43):
And you know, if you happen to make it to
uh Expedition Bigfoot, send us some cool selfies with the
big hairy man ape thing and exactly. Oh and if
you have stories about your own uh inexplainable encounters in
the wild, we are all ears or this case eyes
because we would be reading the email. Woof I am

(01:09:04):
within it on the end of the show. Somebody step
in and save me. Okay, So if you do have
any kind of experience, especially a detailed one, send it
to both us and to David at Expedition Bigfoot. Because
there's this this big wall in the museum that just
has personal accounts. A lot of times it will be
a drawing that someone made of their experience what they

(01:09:26):
saw with a you know the whole story right now.
We're a response to him too. If somebody has a
siding here, ongoing siding in their yard or on their property,
we have a team that will go out there and
uh investigate it. Awesome. We're not going to prove it's real,
because we already know it's real, but we will help
you understand it. Fantastic and you can also check out

(01:09:47):
some of the pictures we took from our trips to
the museum on Instagram. You can find us on Facebook
where conspiracy stuff and conspiracy stuff show on those platforms.
Conspiracy stuff show being the Instagram and conspiracy Stuff on
Facebook and also Twitter, where you can get at us
about any bizarre cryptid sightings. And if you're not into

(01:10:07):
any of that stuff and you want to just go
the old fashioned round the new old fashioned round, you
can drop us an email. We are conspiracy at how
stuff works dot com.