October 11, 2023 • 64 mins
What if most of what we know about history is false? According to proponents of the Tartarian conspiracy, not too long ago Earth was home to an incredibly advanced civilization based in Eurasia, and extending around the world -- until a series of catastrophic mud floods and enemy powers destroyed it, and spent centuries trying to cover up their crime. That's the gist of the theory -- but the actual conspiracy theory about this so-called ancient empire is surprisingly recent.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A
production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Name is Noel.
Speaker 4 (00:27):
They called me Ben. We're joined as always with our
super producer Paul Mission Control decond. Most importantly, you are here,
and that makes this the stuff they don't want you
to know. Tonight we're exploring a conspiracy theory that believers
will tell you experienced a resurgence recently, and we'll see
(00:48):
if that's actually the case. But look, folks, we've all
heard of lost civilizations like Hyperborea, Lemuria, Atlantis, all the hits.
But tonight's question, what about the Tartarian Empire? Here are
the facts.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
You know, we talked a bit about this off Mike,
and this is not something that I was familiar with.
I think maybe y'all had delved into this in some
previous videos back in the day. But Matt, you had
some strong feelings about this topic.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Oh man, yeah, uh no, we never covered this back
in the day. This is fairly recent, like twenty sixteen
to twenty eighteen. This is I'll just be upfront, this
is a topic that brings me a lot of personal frustration,
and I'm going to do my best to be even
keel on this and really think about it.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
And I hesitated from this topic as well as things
like Kazarian stuff because of the virulent anti semitism that
pops up, which I personally find profoundly offensive, but not
all the Tartarian Empire stuff starts out as an anti Semitic.
The phrase may sound unfamiliar or anachronistic to a lot
(01:59):
of people the modern day, probably the mainstream, but a
few centuries ago, the phrase, or some derivation thereof, was
pretty common in the West. When Europeans heard the word
tartary for several centuries or one of its many versions
like Tartaria and Latin tatarre in France and tata in
Germany and so on, it was a term that had
(02:21):
this sense of far flung lands, exoticism, mystery. Way over
in the East, they thought there was a great and
strange area full of unknown treasures, probably weird animals, great
terrible warriors, so on and so on. That might seem
like an overdone opinion in the modern day. But we
have to realize cartography, the science and art of making maps,
(02:45):
was still a budding craft at this time. And I'm
just gonna put it bluntly. Let's pretend I rolled a
one on diplomacy with this one. A lot of those maps.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Sucked understandably, so, right, I mean they didn't have mapping technology.
I mean, well the head like you know, what do
you call them? Sextants and things like that, and compasses,
but certainly not any kind of geo location or the
kinds of stuff we have today, or even more rudimentary
versions of that. So it's understandable that there would be
some issues.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Well yeah, and depending on how far back you go,
everybody's using different measurement systems. That's so, you know, the
problem that we have with translation when it comes to
words also exists when it comes to things like maps.
Speaker 4 (03:28):
Look at the Torah into the Bible, you know what
I mean, like, look at the idea of spans and
cubits and shout out to shout out to our Canadian friends.
I was talking to some Canadian contacts and they broke
down the weird discrepancies between which measurement systems are used
(03:50):
for what like, you'll travel several miles to the grocery store,
but you'll do it at blank kilometers per hour. It's
just very confusing.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
North of the border, I mean, the rest of the
world still kind of you know, rolls its eyes of
the fact that we don't use the metric system over
here except for certain things. All that to say is
that discrepancies between measurements is a historical problem that can
persist to this day. If not on the same page,
you don't have the same you know, base level, it's
(04:20):
hard to understand what you're looking at.
Speaker 4 (04:22):
So the point is, because there were not really great
maps of most places, and definitely no great map of
the world, entire people were left to largely speculate and
to attempt to assemble puzzle pieces into a greater hole
fantasizing we could say about what possibly could be over
(04:44):
there across the horizon on the other side of the world.
And at this time I think we should pause and
shout out other map related conspiracies. One of my favorite
the puri raised map. We did do a video on
this back in the day because it's a it's a
centuries old map that appears to depending on how you
read the tea leaves appears to describe the coast of
(05:09):
Antarctica without ice.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Oh yeah, with all kinds of different animal species that
were hanging out there.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
Right, Yeah, it's pretty neat one. It's a fun rabbit
hole to go down. So do check out our earlier
videos on that. I think we also had an episode
just on some of those maps in general.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Yeah, And I think the most astounding thing about that
map is that it was created in I think the
early fifteen hundreds, right, yeah, So if you imagine early
fifteen hundreds, Wait, there wasn't ice on Antarctica, your brain
can kind of reel and you can go down that
rabbit hole of like, well, whoa were they hiding something?
Speaker 3 (05:47):
What's going on? Was this I don't remember the story,
I'm not aware of it. Was this unknown hoax? Or
was it? Well meaning? Where did that shake out?
Speaker 4 (05:55):
It appears to it appears to have been made in
good faith. It was after the journeys of Crystabaul Cologne.
It comes from. It was drawn on like gazelle skin
by a professional cartographer. Is also a military man from
the Ottoman Empire. And the thing that's interesting is while
(06:16):
this guy appears to be acting in good faith, not
pulling a hoax. The most historians will tell you that
European culture at least was not aware of Antarctica at
all until about eighteen twenty. So this is an interesting
look at possible discrepancies in the timeline of human exploration.
(06:37):
And we know real discrepancies do exist. People have gotten
things wrong. That's not because they were all dunderheads or something.
It's just because they did not have the benefit of
all the information people have today. The lack of quick
communication roots meant trade could be dangerous, unreliable over distance
rumors for some reason then as now I'll tend to
(07:01):
spread faster than true accurate information. And as a result,
Europeans did not have accurate information of this place on
the map that was just called tartary you would call
it today we call it Siberia Manchuria, which is like
northeast China and Central Asia, which is the huge, huge
(07:21):
inland spot of land that people have fought over for ever.
So cartographers back in the day in Europe looked at
what they knew and they said, screw it, let's call
this whole part tartary, because you know that'll help us
finish a lot of the map because that's a big spot.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Well, imagine you have a deadline right from a king
or something like, we need to have this map by
this time. You're like, oh, Tartary, just call it Tartary.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Would they have had knowledge of the different cultures in
this area at the time or do they just not care?
Speaker 4 (07:55):
Figure, It's a good question. It would have been severely
limited because for time, the information that would be getting
was going to be third or fourth hand or outdated,
or they might speak to someone who traveled some part
of the Silk Road going through Central Asia. But in general,
(08:16):
their knowledge was so limited that they just referred to
the people who lived in this area as Tartars because
they're from Tartary.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Well, and also, I mean, like the the map makers
are kind of probably favoring their own culture, and they're
looking at their you know, their bosses as kind of
the bosses of the world, perhaps the.
Speaker 4 (08:36):
Non universe a little bit. Also, they famously at bad teeth,
which is where the phrase tartar comes from. Nobody fact
check that.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Yeah, but you know, we have to remember no human
is perfect, right, So the cartographers at the time aren't
making perfect maps. Their measurements aren't perfect. The peri Ras
map that we just spoke about, the big problem is
that it's probably not Antarctica that is depicted that. Yes,
it appears that's what Antarctica would be, because of the
(09:06):
orientation of what they're drawing. I think it isn't it
south north and South America and then all the way
down to the tip that's where you see the body
that is supposedly Antarctica. But it's probably not that. It's
just somebody got something a little wrong.
Speaker 4 (09:22):
Like look at the scale of these things. So right
over here, in a big shout out to our friends
down Under, I have above one of my monitors here,
I have a full map of Australia, and it's just
a map of Australia instead of the world, because the
representation of continents on a flat surface is still phenomenally misleading,
(09:47):
you know what I mean. I hate to say it.
Greenland's not that big goes and the African continent is
much larger than it is depicted on these flat maps,
which is why on a globe we're just saying the
problems still exists.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
It's a two D depiction of a three D problem, right.
Speaker 4 (10:07):
Yeah, and look, it's still better than nothing. And that's
what these cartographers were working on too. They were working
on better than nothing, and they knew that they would
be able to improve maps as they acquired more information,
better technology for measuring stuff. This idea, this like four
(10:29):
point thirty pm on a Friday, energy of we got
to turn in the map. Let's just call this whole
third of it tartary. That might sound like they're bad cartographers,
but the reality is this happened all the time in
world maps. You look at early maps from again from
Europeans of North America, and that is way off.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
You guys know what got me excited about the idea
of maps. I bet that y'all experienced or had experience
with this too. The book and Chuck Jones movie adaptation
of The Phantom Toll Booth and the book. There are
tons of these maps of this you know, crazy world
of that book, and they talk about cartographers. I think
(11:14):
that was the first place I ever learned what a
cartographer was. Hmm. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
If we're gonna go personal, I think we all grew
up with some kind of map or globe like in
our house. Maybe that's the nature of having a teacher
as a parent or something. I had a cousin who
gave me when I was very young a large, like
oversized map of the United States, and I just remember
trying to understand how when you're mapping this thing, you
(11:41):
get the details on the coast and like imagining someone
in a ship somehow I guess sketching, right, the intricacies
of that coastlinelets.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
And all the little jagged little features.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
Right, I thought they used hot air balloons from a
young age, like the theory about the Osca lines.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
That's brilliant. I never would have even had that thought.
Speaker 4 (12:04):
I was also wrong.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
Well, but to that point though, guys, a lot of
styling going into these, right, Like these are not intricately detailed,
you know, accurate depictions of those coasts. It's just sort
of like it looks a little jagged, you know, this
far definitely goes out.
Speaker 4 (12:22):
Yeah, but that's is.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
That true though, or are they actually, like I don't know,
a cartography.
Speaker 4 (12:29):
The problem is that they're often agendas, so there's a
lot of nationalism mixed up in this loyalty to king
and country. That's why Greenwich meantime is in Greenwich, what
far from the center of modern civilization, to be honest,
and that's not a ding on the good people of
(12:50):
the United Kingdom. But what we see is, and this
will come into play later in the show this evening,
what we see is, yes, there were agendas at play.
That's why you look at early maps and you see
the center of the map is often going to be
the home country of the photographer. Now that's not necessarily wrong,
(13:13):
but it does put a spin into the mix, and
it's a spin that you could have missed back in
those earlier centuries. It's a spin you could miss today
when you watch certain YouTube videos, which is peak foreshadowing.
So not everybody accepted this idea, this explanation that map
making was an imperfect science back in the day. That's
(13:36):
why if you ask about Tartary or Tartaria nowadays, you
will find no shortage of people arguing this was not
in fact a generic geographic term, but instead it was
the name of an ancient, powerful empire which has largely
been erased from history and literally buried by natural disaster.
(13:58):
What are we talking about, We'll tell you after a
word from our sponsors, Big Map. Here's where it gets crazy.
Strap in we got to introduce you to something called
the mud flood hypothesis. Who doesn't love an abbreviated rhyme
(14:19):
like that?
Speaker 3 (14:20):
So, I mean when you say strap in followed by
the mudfla, it makes me feel like we're about to
go on a ride at six flags or something that sounds.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Like it's going to be about of diarrhea.
Speaker 4 (14:30):
But yeah, it makes me think of that plane in
that sailed to Spain. Another rhyme with just the torrential
biblical poop crisis. The mud flood hypothesis is what happens
in our office restrooms, right, But this one is centered
around the idea that this geographical thing on maps, which
(14:52):
is true. You can see old maps of plenty that
say Tartaria or tart Tartary or whatever. The idea is
that these maps were not describing a general geographic area
where photographers had limited information. It was instead describing an empire,
an empire that may have stood for centuries. Increasingly people
(15:14):
are saying it stood for millennia, spread hudos how far,
and it at least ranged the continent of Eurasia. The
borders of it change as well, which is interesting. And
the further down the rabbit hole you go, you will
see that this empire, at least proponents of this theory
(15:34):
believe that before it was destroyed, it had enormously advanced architecture,
amazing transportation, wireless technology, and technology that doesn't exist today,
like free energy.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
I mean, it does have a certain gravitas to it.
The name alone, right, especially when it's just plopped on
this giant land mass. I could see an initial inkling
being like, huh, what's this about? This seems like some
sort of kingdom, you know, like something out of the
Phantom tot Mooth.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Oh yeah, well, well it's just thinking about a flood.
This conspiracy has flooded social media, and I as as
more and more people make videos about this on YouTube
and Instagram and TikTok. That the thing that you're talking about,
ben at the expansion of the theory itself. It's the
(16:24):
ones that I'm seeing now are saying it was a
global civilization, right, cover everything including Antarctica and.
Speaker 4 (16:33):
New Zealand and the Mallori. You were part of it. Yeah,
we'll get to that. We'll get to that later, because
this is actually a pivotal piece of the turn here.
So this concept, right, this already doesn't it feel kind
of familiar to anybody who read about Atlantis theories? Yeah,
like that's it's like we have Atlantis but at home.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
You know what you know, Ben, You and I just
did an episode about toilets on Regular's History, wherein we
discussed how advanced the Roman Empire was and how they
had all of this poop technology, uh that was then
wiped out by the fall of Rome. So there is
historical precedent for stuff being lost to history and buried,
(17:18):
you know, their advanced civilization. So I think probably there's
some of that feeding into folks like wanting to believe
this to be true.
Speaker 4 (17:27):
Sure. Check out our episode on anachronistic technology or lost technology,
Damascus steel, the Bagdad battery, which is electrolysis kind of
or electroplating excuse me?
Speaker 2 (17:38):
And how control the historical record?
Speaker 3 (17:40):
How? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (17:41):
Who controls the past? Thank that? Yeah, shout out to
that one. And we also know that humanity is super
talented at losing stuff. You know, That's why the city
of Troy was lost and considered mythical. It can happen.
These are not coming out of just whole cloth or
some kind of sudden fictional bout of revelation and epiphany.
(18:04):
Tartari is currently in the mainstream. It's general or the
mainstream version of this conspiracy theory says. Look, it's a
huge part of Asia and Russia up to the Caspian Sea,
in the Ural Mountains, all the way out to the
Pacific Ocean, all the way out to Bulgaria. It hits
the southern borders of China, India, Iran slash Persia. So
(18:25):
it's not just an advanced empire, but it's an extremely
large one. And again to your point, Matt, as the
folklore splinters and evolves in the game of telephone continues playing,
more and more people will make increasingly extravagant and bold claims.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
I love this idea of wireless technology that certainly would
come in handy with an empire of that size. So
I don't know if I buy it.
Speaker 4 (18:50):
Though, Yeah, yeah, I mean, I guess just talking to
people as wireless technology.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
Too, shouting loud enough. Yeah, well, smoke signals is technically
less technology.
Speaker 4 (19:00):
Pigeons, wireless technology, crows a lot of Actually, most technology
back then was wireless because they hadn't invented wires either.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
Not to mention that who was it it was like
the seed of bluetooth technology was actually invented by like
an actor of a woman whose name is totally is
giving me now, in like the twenties or something like that.
It was long ago and the seed that led to
ultimately bluetooth technology was invented way before anyone figured out
(19:31):
quite what to do with it, just just.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
Saying yeah, and this this happens pretty often. It was
heady Lamar, that's right, right, this Happenstarion. Yes, of course
check out my YouTube videos, bro, but actually no, do
check out our YouTube channel. We promise it's a little
bit different from this stuff, although in stuff they don't
want you to know, not not tooting our own Eldridge horn.
(19:55):
I think you can find some precedents for format of
a lot of these videos, quite honest with you. But
before we dive deeper into the mud, we got to
ask ourselves logically, all right, there's this huge thing. It's
the biggest thing ever. They're super advanced. They're all over
at least Eurasia, if not the world. They're running stuff.
(20:16):
They're in the catbird seed of civilization. But what happened
to them? This is where the mud flood idea comes
into play, which very interesting. How would we describe that
in like a high level term mud flood hypothesis?
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Well, you have to explain, how in the heck did
this giant civilization with all this intense architecture that we
haven't even really get fully gotten into the architecture yet,
how did it disappear? Why is it not in the
historical record? Well, maybe there was a natural disaster that
caused all of this stuff not to just be you know,
(20:54):
the buildings to be destroyed, but the remnants of those
buildings to be covered up literally in dirt.
Speaker 4 (21:01):
To be literally buried to time. Yeah, that's an excellent
that's an excellent summation of it. You know. Then there's
the idea that this occurred in step with two other
intervening variables. The first is that there was a tremendous war.
Either sometimes it's called an internal war. Sometimes it's more
(21:23):
of a tartaria versus everybody on the planet war. But
either way, the idea is that this ancient war involved
the equivalent of what we would call modern energy weapons
or nuclear power, or possibly technology is still not possessed
by modern nations today. This is similar to the idea
that ancient Vedic text described nuclear war, so it's pulling
(21:46):
from that as well.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
But you'll often hear about frequency tools and weapons like
that can somehow lock into the well. I forget some
of the terminology that's used in these, but you levitate
things by shooting sound at large objects and things like that.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
And this is the same kind of stuff that comes
up about Atlantis too, that they had like advanced weaponry
and potential technology that doesn't exist. I think it's he
can't ignore the parallels.
Speaker 4 (22:19):
And along the way you'll see, folks, we're pulling out
pre existing pieces of other conspiratorial beliefs or alternative revisionist
slash pseudo history. The big thing is to a point
you were talking about earlier, Matt. Proponents of the Tartaria
Empire conspiracy will often also accuse other civilizations of actively
(22:45):
erasing Tartaria from the history books. And usually though they'll
be accusing civilizations that are a bit older, but still
we're around at the time photography was invented or went mainstream,
because the proof is in the picture, right, So you'll
see a lot of pictures that purport to pardon the
(23:08):
alliteration pardon the alliteration that purport to prove this theory.
That's a heck of a story. That's the tartaria thing.
At the basics. Your mileage may vary. We're giving you
the factory issue conspiracy, but you need to understand most
of the videos or most of the stuff you encounter
arguing that this is true. They're going to have their
(23:29):
own custom add ons. They're going to talk about vaccination,
they're going to talk about flat earth. They're going to
say some pretty screwed up stuff about different ethnicities, religions,
or creeds, and they're going to say it in a
feedback loop form, which is very yes, and and we'll
get to that at the end of tonight's show. But
why don't we let's look at the proof for this story.
(23:52):
It's kind of dodgy. We talked about the countless YouTube
videos bringing up in recent years, and you'll often we're
not criticizing this, we're describing it. You'll often hear weird
voiceover describing the conspiracy, accompanied by visuals, often out of context,
old photographs of people digging through mud to unearth lower
(24:16):
levels of buildings, or someone pointing to a building that
like the like the Long Lines building in Manhattan seems
unusual compared to its neighbors. And then, weirdly enough, you'll
see a lot of photos of Robert Wadlow, who for
a time was the world's largest man topic the guy.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
You always see sculptures of at like Ripley's Museums, right
eight foot one.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
There's a connection here to the Smithsonian conspiracy about giant
skeletons right right, And the other thing. I just want
to point out about those videos there. In every single
one I've seen, there is zero sourcing. So it is
a person with an opinion about a building, and that
(25:01):
building looks way too old to be here in the
center of New York City, or way too different. That
Long Lines building, like you mentioned, Ben, just sticks out
too much. There's no way it wasn't here before New
York City was built.
Speaker 4 (25:13):
You know, real buildings in Chicago, things that have easily
traceable histories of construction. And then it's often it's often
also presented in a just asking questions, Oh yeah, you
know what I mean, Like, hey, hey bro, I'm just
asking questions.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
I'm pretty sure that structure was built at the Niagara Falls,
Like I can't tell, but that looks human made to me.
Speaker 4 (25:40):
I mean, I'm asking, maybe Earth is round now, but
when did that happen? Exactly? So, like when did they
roll that burrito together? You know it's it's true though
that hearing spooky voiceover with sinister archival footage that does
sound familiar to us, very much so, and I even
(26:02):
feel a little bit like you know, Leaves of Grass.
Is this amazing, amazing poetic work by Walt Whitman, But
it also gave birth to a lot of terrible free
verse poetry.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
So is this our fault?
Speaker 4 (26:18):
Is this our fault? It's the question.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (26:20):
We always wanted to know that we were standing on
a quantitative, like a substantive series of sources. And these videos,
to your point, Matt, they're heavy on good storytelling. Honestly,
they're just very light on solid, much needed context, Like
we were talking about this off air. They'll point to
(26:43):
CIA documents from the nineteen fifties that were declassified after
the Cold War, but at the time there were secret
documents studying this efforts of Soviet Russia to yes erase cultures,
to rename areas, to do the same thing that allegedly
happened to the Tartarian Empire. And these are presentatives, smoking
(27:07):
gun level proof. There's a little bit of truth to it,
you know, Nola, you were talking about different etymological roots.
We love etymology here. But you'll see CIA docs that
are declassified that are available on the websites or on
the official CIO website right now that say things like
the Khanate of Kason was named Tartar stunt, it was
(27:30):
a republic of the Russian Federation and then it wasn't.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Yeah, so there, So you show video of that document
right just to still image of that document, and you
sit there and you talk about it for a while,
you analyze it without any other context. For a viewer
who might be leaning towards wold, there might be something here.
It feels astounding and real and definitely proof.
Speaker 4 (27:55):
As long as you don't read pass the headline. And
you know that's we got to be honest. We said
it before. There are a lot of hard working people
in those organizations, but they're not often hired for their
sexy writing skill. The format of these documents is not
you know, is not purple prose page turning stuff.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
Yeah, and speaking of the etymological twists, I guess I
think we're all kind of like dogs with bones when
it comes to this kind of stuff. The word tartary
made me immediately conjure images of the Greek mythological hellscape
that is tartar Us, and just I found a reference that,
you know, Europeans, who were largely the ones mapping this
(28:39):
part of the world, they had negative opinions about this
part of the world, often tied to the Mongol invasions. Yeah,
savage is all that kind of stuff, a lot of xenophobic,
kind of racist, you know, opinions about this part of
the world and their civilization. So it's almost like they
(28:59):
were at that are because tatar was one version of
it that existed prior to this. And then adding that
r was almost like an intentional way in the eighteenth
century of conjuring images of hell.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Yeah, dude, we haven't got to yet. But this thing
coincides with hollow Worth theories, right and underground civilizations and stuff.
It's weird how then the words are just matching up
with the how the theory has evolved.
Speaker 4 (29:27):
It all goes together. It's like a girl talk level
of mixtape. A referenced we care about. But yes, they'll also,
in addition to these to these ostensible smoking gun level
proofs from the CIA, they'll also spend some time tracing
the gradual disappearance of the phrase tartary from maps. So
(29:49):
in eighteen twenty four you see that there's China and
there's something called Chinese Tartaria, which is truly north of China.
Simple enough, fast forward decades eighteen fifty, Mongolia begins to
appear where Tartaria was, and China expands to become an empire.
Eventually Tartaria disappears from view, it's no longer on the maps.
(30:13):
If you are assuming that other cultures are actively working
to hide the knowledge of some super advanced sci fi
civilization from the days of YR, then it does seem
like they're gradually erasing culture. But then if you realize
that map making kind of sucked for a while, then
you can view these exact same process as cartographers getting
(30:38):
better at their craft, you know what I mean. It's
a bit of a rorshak painting.
Speaker 3 (30:44):
Also, like, I know we're gonna get to more of this,
but like, show me the fossilized laser gun. Where's that?
You know? I want to see that?
Speaker 4 (30:55):
At which point there will be a slight matrix dodge,
which I've done before or too in some things where
it says, well, there's not proof of that, but what
about the antiquate therap mechanism and then boom, you gotta
stock image of that.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Or or the pyramids at Giza, and the statement is
always we don't understand what these were actually used for.
These specific chambers were actually for this, and that's how
you know they were able to send free energy out
to the entire area with that singular great pyramid and
(31:29):
all this stuff, and you know, it's stuff that you
can't prove, and it's stuff that you also can't in
the moment disprove, because the argument is always no, but
that's a lie, like they put that story there as
a lie to cover up the reality.
Speaker 4 (31:47):
But then yes, naturally, the next step is cool, then
build it again, or say specifically why it can't be
done today? Why can't it you know what I mean,
And let's get let's get some of today's top scientists
on it, and then the argument will become, well, they're
(32:09):
not allowed to do it. Oh yeah, yeah, for.
Speaker 3 (32:12):
Some reason, it's suppressed or oppressed.
Speaker 4 (32:14):
And technological suppression is real it very much is. But
the next thing, the one you see cited the most
the other the more popular reading tea leaves or rorshak
interpretation here orbits around. Architecture believers seek evidence for the
existence of Tartaria in seemingly mismatched architecture found across Europe, Asia,
(32:37):
even parts of Antarctica are very rural places where what
the mainstream considers natural geographical or natural geological formations to
be ancient evidence of large things like now that the
climate is eroding the natural state of Antarctica and mountains
(32:58):
are popping up out of the ice. Stuff like that,
people are going people are going nuts, and no one's
asking actual geologist about it. So these styles, the architectural styles,
they argue, are not examples of cross culture pollination, like
the onion domes that you see in Moscow and Saint
(33:18):
Petersburg and whatever. Seeing those somewhere else like in the
Middle East, that doesn't mean those people talk to each
other and architects traded tips and ripped each other off
and stuff. That means that they were all built by
the Tartarians at some point before they were betrayed by
a conspiracy of lesser later empires. Who struck during that
(33:43):
biblical level of mud flooding. So they saw an opportunity.
They hated that Tartaria was great, and for that reason
alone they sank the empire.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
Ugh, these buildings are just too intricate. Haters for those buildings.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
Haters.
Speaker 3 (34:00):
That's the thing about a lot of these kind of
like overly oversimplified kind of concepts like this. It totally
discounts the notion of parallel thinking, you know what I mean.
It's like, no, there has to be there, there has
to be a connection, it has to be there's no
other way, there's another way. It's that there weren't you know,
every idea under the sun didn't exist yet. It was
(34:23):
early in the historical record. People were coming up with
stuff at the same time, you know, hundreds and hundreds
of miles apart from one another, with no means of communicating.
Speaker 4 (34:33):
Right, Like we see this all the time, Like a
pyramid is just actually a very durable way to stack rocks.
That's why they stick around longer than towers. So going
back to the architectural idea here in the Tartarian Empire conspiracy,
the concept is that there are in general, not a
ton of different types of architecture. There are only two. First,
(34:57):
modern architecture described as is brutalist, it's cheap, it's quickly produced,
it has no personality, and Frank Lloyd Wright is not
real or whatever. And then there's everything else. Everything you
think is interesting is actually Tartarian architecture. Anything that looks ornate,
(35:17):
pre modern, anything that's classical, anything that is an interesting
Western style. Sometimes it's also applied to non Western structures,
the taj Mahal, the Pyramids, the Great Wall of China. Essentially,
at some point in the Tartarian Empire conspiracy, they built
everything that looks cool. Everything that is not cool was
(35:41):
built by the enemies of Tartaria. You can see this
as a bit of a broad brush. I, for one,
think brutalist architecture looks mad cool.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
That's just mean.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
Yeah, I think it's really interesting, and some of it's
very intricate. If it's you know, it's obviously minimal, but
it's like minimal maximal kind of it's interesting.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
I don't know, isn't There's some few energy about brutalism
that I really dig I don't know. It's just that
coach every geometrical simple structures with class. I don't know, man,
I mean I'm into it. You guys are familiar with. Like,
so we're in Atlanta, and if you look at some
of these really fancy neighborhoods, they'll have a new construction
(36:25):
that has a house, but it'll have a house that's
like just rectangles kind of stacked in weird configurations.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
Totally out of place, stick out like a sore thumb
amongst the old classic, you know, picket fence type houses.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
Right well, I'm trying to figure out why I'm so
obsessed with it, Like I love.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
It in some way cool when they make sense, Like
if you go to like Los Angeles or whatever, and
you see all these houses in the Hollywood Hills or
like San Francisco and stuff, they make sense. They're sort
of like there's a certain continuity to them. But here
they just feel like some rich person had a bunch
of money and just plopped one down kind of just
sticks out like a sore thumb. I don't dislike the architecture.
(37:03):
I just dislike how doesn't have a continuity to it.
I don't know, that's just me.
Speaker 4 (37:08):
So we can agree, though, you guys can agree that
maybe this concept of all architecture being two schools or
only two categories is a bit misleading.
Speaker 3 (37:19):
It's absurd.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
Yeahulous, I just wanted to know.
Speaker 4 (37:24):
I feel you, man, and it's true. Like there's so
architecture is like any craft. It is an opportunity for
creative expression, constrained by common things right function, right function,
environmental variable, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. The issue
(37:45):
is like any other art, architects, construction workers, everybody, they
came up with multiple answers to this and multiple creative answers.
So calling it all tartarian architecture feels cool, feel like
it's part of a global conspiracy that you figured out.
But it also it's kind of crappy to millions of
(38:09):
people who worked really hard on expressing themselves or building
cool stuff.
Speaker 3 (38:14):
It's the same way it feels crappy you to slap
tartaria on this vastly culturally different part of the world
with among these borders in that giant chunk on that
old map, huge differences. There's no you know, singular culture
in that part of the world. They're all very, very
(38:35):
different and have their own backstories, and it seems to
me like a reductive view of racist European map makers.
Speaker 4 (38:43):
Well, it's also you know, we see it again with
ancient Aliens. There's no way people backed inn could have
built that. And also I think the phrase mongol horde
is a little bit of negative pr Although sup were good,
they did some terrible, terrible, terrible things.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
Can we give one example of the architecture, just a
one building, right, yeah, just we mentioned the Long Lines
building right already, the crazy brutalist no window having weird
structure in Manhattan.
Speaker 4 (39:14):
Right, but nothing sketchy.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
But again that kind of doesn't fit the mold of
this because it is more of a brutalist structure, more
modern thing of Singer Building. The Singer Building is an
excellent choice to think about ben because it's built in
the super late eighteen hundreds. It only sticks around until
nineteen sixty seven when it is demolished. It was for
(39:40):
a time the tallest building in the world when it
was created, at like six hundred and twenty feet in
the air. And it seems to fit this mold really
well of this conspiracy because it was crazy intricate, the
especially the work on the home thing. Yeah, and the
(40:00):
work on the outside of the structure. Right, So if
you behold it from street level there in New York,
it's this incredible looking ornate thing. But then why was
it you know, it was the tallest building. Why did
they crash that thing down after what seventy years?
Speaker 4 (40:17):
Yeah, so a Chicago federal building, which was had a
larger dome than the Capitol, was raised only sixty years
after its completion. You'll find people arguing as well, proponents
of this theory that World War two happened because modern
powers were fighting over stealing secrets of old Tataria or
(40:40):
destroying all traces of its existence. So people weren't being
bombed because world powers were in a war. These places
were being bombed to get rid of those buildings.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
And that's a theory that goes back to theories about
the invasion of Iraq by the United States when we
were supposed to be fighting al Qaeda and terrorism. There
are so many theories out there about the true reason
that we.
Speaker 4 (41:05):
Were getting ancient artifacts from the National Museum.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
Yeah, well that actually was happening right with the museums
were rated right, and absolutely integral historical structures were just
demolished during that war.
Speaker 4 (41:20):
That one theory though the Artifact story just in full disclosure,
that's close to me because I wrote a pretty good
sci fi story about no straight up horror story about it.
But yeah, the idea that there are ulterior motives behind
these large scale world conflicts, that's not distinct to World
(41:41):
War Two. It's not distinct to a rock. It's not
distinct to Vietnam, the Korean War. Pretty Much every war,
just because of the global toll it takes, is going
to have numerous, numerous alleged ulterior motives, and sometimes, just
to be completely freakin' honest, those motives are true. Sometimes
(42:03):
there definitely are ulterior motives. Like Goddafi was a real
piece issue way before he ever got deposed, and then
he started messing with the hegemonic currency of the region,
which is the French African dinar, right, and he wanted
to make his own, the African franc and he wanted
(42:23):
to make his own kind of African equivalent.
Speaker 3 (42:26):
Of the Euro.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
Say big no no.
Speaker 4 (42:29):
It was a big no no, and he can read
about it. So whenever somebody says, whatever, somebody speaks to
you in terms of like ideology, the greater good, we're
doing the right thing. American spirit whatever, not the cigarettes.
But yeah, those two ask what resources are in play,
and there's where you'll find the answer. But the problem
(42:52):
with this architecture too, and the ideas of the war
well more so in the architecture, is that each in
every case we have found when you see the photos
that pop up about this theory, there isn't to your point, Matt,
there isn't clear sourcing. You can find the providence of
the photos through something as simple as Google's image search,
(43:14):
and every time they lead back to clearly explainable, documented things.
If you go back to the proponents of these theories,
they may say, Okay, yes, and I acknowledge that that
part might not be true, that hebro what about this,
and then you have to go repeat it.
Speaker 2 (43:33):
Well, yeah, I'm just thinking about the Singer building. You
can go online right now and see archival photos of
that building in construction at the time in eighteen eighty
nine or whatever it was, and you can actually see that.
But it often it is not enough proof to convince
somebody that that image isn't fake, right, And it kind
(43:57):
of makes you question yourself to some extent. I think
that's why maybe this theory is so attractive to a
lot of people because it's got that matrix vibe to
it where it makes you think, oh, well, maybe I
don't know the whole truth. Maybe they have been pulling
something over my eyes and I literally am unable to
(44:17):
see it because of the lens I got.
Speaker 4 (44:19):
And I like this thing. We're going into self image
because that's going to be very important to the final
turn of tonight's story. The proving or disproving these concepts
to it becomes even more tedious. It's like when Hercules
had to do all those crazy tasks. It is indeed
a herculean task to try to address each point of
(44:43):
these theories, because these theories have become fractals. Right inside
you find a larger pattern associated with another thing, and
it continues ad infinitum. The more fantastical claims will argue
Tartaria was home to giants, and then boom, in your
that's where Robert Wadlow shows up, and they'll say the
(45:04):
mud flood that wiped wiped out this ancient empire of
superquol giants was also the basis of biblical flood myths,
and people have been lying to you about the true
timeline of human slash giant civilization.
Speaker 2 (45:22):
You haven't even thought about the Nephilim yet, dude.
Speaker 4 (45:25):
Right, you haven't even been by the employee only area
of the Smithsonian, right, because you don't have the clearance
to get past the cafe. And that's why, for this reason,
Tartarian Empire conspiracies as a group have been called the
QAnon of architecture. Like QAnon theories, this stuff continues to splinter.
(45:49):
More and more people add their own spins or agendas
to the modern folklore, and I think that leads us
naturally to what could be called arguments against Tartaria. So
maybe we take a break from our sponsor, who is
of course big mud Flood, and will be back to
dig into why historians don't believe this. We're back, all right,
(46:17):
So let's set aside the easily disprovable photographs for a second.
More proof against this theory or the reasons why people
who don't believe it say that it's malarchy. First, despite
rocking this patina of the ancient past, it turns out
Tartaria and the mudflood is a very recent thing. Brian
(46:38):
Dunning over Skeptoid says this idea exists almost entirely on
the Internet, if not entirely the While it pulls a
lot of ancient stuff or much older conspiracy theories as
a single consolidated core idea, it only dates back to
(46:58):
Get This twenty sixteen twenty seventeen, which means that our
conspiracy to start this little show is older than the
conspiracy of Tartaria, at least the way it is presented.
The skeptoid investigation of this is really interesting because they also,
like we were talking about, using Google reverse image search
(47:21):
and things like that, they're using They're using Google trends
to trace the popularity of phrases like mudflood, mud flood theory,
or Tartaria, and it looks like the Internet overall wasn't
really responding to this stuff until about December of twenty eighteen,
(47:43):
which causes Dunning to go see if he can find
an origin point for all these YouTube videos, and the
closest he got is he found a one YouTube user
named Philip Druzenen who had been posting videos about mudflood
concepts since August of twenty sixty very low viewership at first,
(48:05):
he keeps doing it. He's in it for the love
of the game. Right, and he's probably a good faith
actor too, he's not trying to like necessarily sell a
book or whatever. And then in December twenty eighteen or
January twenty nineteen, he got an enormous spike and downloads,
right around the time the mainstream Internet started saying, tell
(48:26):
me more about this mud flood.
Speaker 3 (48:27):
Interesting. I mean, it does seem that he was, like
you said, you know, acting in good faith and was
maybe even a little confused as to why he all
of a sudden got this boost in attention.
Speaker 2 (48:38):
Right, yeah, And there was other stuff getting real, real
popular and maybe even kind of connected to this theory, what.
Speaker 3 (48:47):
Right, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (48:48):
And for Dunning's part, he is not so much interested
in why the spike and attention occurred, why this mainstreaming
occurred when it did, as he is concerned or I
take it to me fascinated by the crazy growth of
this theory, similar again to the growth of QAnon, as
you pointed out, and that I think is what can
(49:10):
make Tartaria as a concept dangerous because it can be weaponized,
just like QAnon got started out with asking questions, which
is what this show is all about, and then led
to you know, led to people driven to desperation and
(49:30):
showing up in a pizza place strapped and ready to
shoot folks. Right, that's the concern people have about the
leveraging or weaponization of Tartaria.
Speaker 3 (49:42):
You know.
Speaker 4 (49:42):
That's why you can easily because there's a guy named
Peter Diddo talks to Bloomberg and he describes Tartaria and
QAnon as both having cafeteria quality. There's no single authoritative
voice really, a little.
Speaker 3 (49:59):
Of that makes it together. Got myself a cast role.
Speaker 2 (50:03):
Well, yeah, everybody is interpreting images in videos and just
kind of giving their own spin and what they think
it is.
Speaker 4 (50:11):
It's like a CP or house of leaves.
Speaker 2 (50:13):
Mm hmm, which again makes it fun when you're in it.
When you're participating in it, it's exciting you're sharing this
concept that you've had, right, Oh man, I had this idea.
Maybe maybe people will like it.
Speaker 3 (50:26):
It's it's almost more like being part of a massive
online game than it is actual research or actual you know,
like we're being completely non biased about this. You're in
a community that clearly kind of has an end goal
in mind, and you're playing along. You know, I mean
not to disdiminish anyone's you know, internet time or whatever,
(50:48):
but I think it's easy to get sucked into that
because it does start to feel like you're playing your
you're living your own choose your adventure kind of situation.
Speaker 4 (50:56):
Yeah, I would, I would agree with that, and I
would expand on it to say that this reminds me
very much as a new iteration one of my favorite
games from the surrealist movement, Exquisite Corpse. I write a sentence,
you write, the next one pass to great, and we
don't know what story will end up being. I would
(51:18):
also say that the cafeteria quality in Tartaria is it's
worse than an actual cafeteria because you don't get to
just pick from the stuff that's already at the buffet.
You could bring your own thing from home and share
it with the class. And that's why you can easily
find arguments about Tartaria descending into racism, anti semitism because
(51:42):
of course, as well as Russian nationalism, which is huge
in this shout out to Phantom time man.
Speaker 3 (51:48):
You can really easily in this scenario end up with
something that the Zelda games called dubious food.
Speaker 4 (51:55):
Or chunks.
Speaker 3 (51:57):
It's when you're cooking in the Zelda games, and you
combine ingredients that don't go together, you end up with
this weird, blurred pile of sludge that they call dubious food.
Speaker 4 (52:07):
But when you try to make a potion blind and
Skyrim and you get your ingredients wrong. And so this
is something that's strange because Bloomberg and a couple of
other investigators not associated with Bloomberg did what we've been
describing a survey of videos and discussions in various forums
(52:29):
and subredits and so on, and you see the conspiratorial
threads all connect, and they all connect with these other agendas,
other weirdly specific things like if you have you ever
just had a general conversation with someone and they keep
going back to a really specific thing, you know, they're like, well,
(52:49):
you know what, that reminds me of the Byzantine Empire,
And you're like, really, Tina Turner, all right, bro, walk
me through it.
Speaker 2 (52:56):
You have some weird combos.
Speaker 3 (52:57):
Ben, remember if this was on the if we was
on the episode, if it was beforehand. But the idea
of like, well what about the anti kilar mechanism, Like
that's unrelated but similar enough to like give my question
about buried laser guns I think, yeah, it was, it
was earlier. But it's it's a it's just a tactic.
It's a it's a rhetorical tactic. You know. It's like,
I don't really have any proof, I don't have a
(53:18):
leg to stand on. Let me throw out this diversion,
you know. And then there's and that's why you will
see someone come in and say, well, also flat earth,
don't get vaccinated. That presidential alert from a while back
turns people into five G zombies. Uh, the banking cartels
and you know, denial of the Holocaust and stuff like that.
(53:41):
And you'll even see historical recasting of who who were
the Tartars, right, that's the billion dollar question. You'll see
arguments that actually in Central Asia during the times of
the Mongol Empire, these people were red haired, blue eyed,
and you're damn sure they were white. So Silk Road areas,
(54:04):
it goes off the rails or into the mud so quickly.
I think we could take just a second to shout
out how Russian nationalists very effectively weaponized this. We did
an earlier episode on Phantom Time. The idea of phantom
Time is that several hundred years in the acknowledged mainstream
timeline of human civilization are totally made up. And the
(54:28):
implication is they were totally made up as a way
of downplaying Russia's great role as the global superpower, and
that all the enemies of Russia, which are everyone but Russia,
has lied to their children. They're still pretty sore about that. Huh.
Speaker 4 (54:46):
Yeah, they're pretty sorry about that. Although Putin just went
out and did some myth busting yesterday, guys. He says
he he says they got the official conclusion back on
Pregosian's plane. He said they the Wagner group was on
the plane. They got drunk, they started playing with hand grenades,
and they exploded themselves. Cool you that's what he said. Wow,
(55:11):
he said that, He said they were That's that's his
understanding of events from.
Speaker 2 (55:16):
Crazy that I could kind of see that happening.
Speaker 3 (55:19):
Yes, that's the thing that so wild. One person's myth
buster is another myth maker. You know, this is that
is out of control.
Speaker 2 (55:27):
Just just to stampoot for a second. Did you see
the footage of him, uh cheers ing with Kim Jong un.
They both had champagne. Did you see that where they're
standing together for a photo op. They do a cheers,
and then they both kind of look at their champagne
glasses like you drink first, No, no, you drink.
Speaker 3 (55:48):
Somebody should memify that. That's perfect.
Speaker 4 (55:52):
Their lives are memes in the worst way. But if
we look at this Russian weaponization of Tartaria, than what
we see is the argument says Tartaria is a real
lost empire. It's the actual real name of Russia. They're
trying to hide the true historical glory of Russia from
the world and from the Russian people. The implication being
(56:15):
that Tartaria should rise again as what it really is,
Russia the one global superpower. And so we always have
to ask questions first, why would world governments cover all
this amazing stuff up. There's no one answer. It depends
on which version of the theory or reading on the
flip side. Why would somebody enter your conversation about Tartaria,
(56:38):
even if it's just fun, you know, creepypasta speculative stuff.
Why would they enter that conversation and strongly push for
one specific point about their own pet theory or belief.
This teaches us a great deal about the human mind
and social dynamics. People are not stupid, people are like
the photographers back in the day, working with the information
(56:59):
they have the ability or inclination to access. And that's
why you see, like, Okay, this bugs me, and this
might be a hot take, but I've seen it happen
so many times, so many things. This happens in a
lot of conspiracy theories. There's an attempt to gain community
as well as, even more importantly, a sense of importance
(57:21):
or meaning to oneself and one's own identity. That's why,
you know, somebody in New Zealand says, here's the truth
about Tataria and the Maori people, right, And I was
shocked to find that out because.
Speaker 3 (57:34):
I am Maori.
Speaker 4 (57:36):
That's it's similar to so many genealogical groups. You guys know,
I'm a lungeon. And one of the most weird things
about that is whenever somebody comes up with a conspiracy
theory about a real tri racial isolate, their conspiracy theory
always goes back to And this changed my understanding of
(57:57):
myself and it turns out that I'm awesome, And that's
kind of sad.
Speaker 2 (58:03):
What kind of architecture is being hidden up in the
foothills of Tennessee, man.
Speaker 3 (58:08):
Or there's also the flip side of that, where I
forget the guy's name, but there's like a PBS show
where they dig deep into people's genealogy and it turns
out that my great great grandpapa owned all the slaves,
and now I'm awful, or at the very least, it
makes me rethink my whole perception of my family line,
you know.
Speaker 4 (58:27):
The inclination being hey, internet strangers, Hey, other people think
more about me, because that's what humans love. They want
to center themselves, right, It's a conversation is more interesting
when I feel it is somehow about me says humanity,
and that's not cool. It's not fun for you know,
(58:48):
the other people who also exist in the conversation unless
they can identify with that or they can have some
sort of buy it if they can yes, and their
way into saying yes, that's true. And also as someone
like I'm just making up a weird example like and
also as someone from as someone from Turkey, this is
(59:12):
how it applies to me, and so it's it's a
feedback loop, right, And that's why otherwise completely rational people
will agree with folks who might be bad faith actors,
might be paid internet trolls, intruding their communities, then you can.
If you try to disagree, even politely, you might be dismissed.
You might be confronted with hostility because you are disincentivized
(59:37):
from disproving something that is clearly untrue. You are strongly
incentivized to accept that. And yes, and your own spin
of new speculation.
Speaker 3 (59:46):
Well, if you're the member of a society where this
kind of revisionist history is kind of part of the
ideology of whatever regime is in power, and you go
against it, you could be killed.
Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
I mean, I do want to discount this either anytime
any let's say category or style of video content, audio content,
as soon as it starts to take off in popularity,
right and catches fire, there are going to be countless
individuals who look at that and think, Okay, I'm going
(01:00:22):
to make that type of content too, because I can
probably create a revenue stream for myself. Right sure, And
it could be and it could not be nefarious in
any way. It's just, hey, I can actually make some
money maybe if I make tartarian conspiracy videos, right.
Speaker 4 (01:00:37):
And if I use chat GPT or another similar thing. Correctly,
I don't have to write it either. It can just scrape,
and it can scrape and make more of the same
of what has already been proven to be successful. That's
what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (01:00:49):
And what you end up with is a giant Internet
mud flood of videos about tartaria exactly.
Speaker 4 (01:00:56):
Okay, yeah, yeah, is it okay if I return to
the feedback loop because they just want to finish, I
want to close the loop on this. The reason it
works is people are strongly incentivized to accept a proposal
or speculation in this social sphere, and then further you
add your own, maybe something a little more centered around
your self image, your pre existing beliefs, your agendas, and
(01:01:18):
you do that because you will receive validation, heightened importance
to the group, and return. It's a dopamine casino all
over again. And that means that everybody wants their turn
on the swing, everybody wants their spot on the merry ground.
So that just increases the speed of the game and
then soon enough, rinse, repeat and boom. Just like swimming
(01:01:40):
away from the shore in the ocean, you might turn
around and think you were swimming straight, but you realize
you're miles away from where you began. And that means
like as much as we love improv online conspiracies might
require us to trade our yes and for a little
bit of well, actually, or the Socratic method, you know,
(01:02:01):
which is a more friendlier way of the open hand?
Why is that?
Speaker 3 (01:02:04):
Well?
Speaker 4 (01:02:05):
What about this?
Speaker 3 (01:02:06):
You know?
Speaker 4 (01:02:06):
And maybe we give in the interest of fairness, because
again it's a great investigation. I say we give the
very last word to Brian Dunning. At the end of
his examination, he asked a great question, why did these
tartarian giants live in houses and buildings the exact same
size as ours?
Speaker 3 (01:02:24):
Mic Drop Dunning?
Speaker 4 (01:02:28):
Let us know what you think, folks, So we hope
you enjoyed this. We clearly have some feelings about it.
We want to hear your thoughts. We want to hear
maybe the most interesting extreme versions you found. We want
to hear. Yeah, just let us know what's.
Speaker 1 (01:02:44):
On your mind.
Speaker 4 (01:02:44):
Let us know what episodes you think we should cover
in the future as well. We want to be easy
to find on the internet. All you have to do
is go to your local tartarian forum. Kidding Kitdting, I
think yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:02:57):
You can find us on x KA, Twitter, YouTube, Facebook,
at the handle conspiracy stuff on Instagram and TikTok. We
are conspiracy stuff show.
Speaker 2 (01:03:08):
Hey, do you like using your phone to use your
voice to make a call, Well you can call us.
Our number is one eight three three std WYTK. When
you call in, you've got three minutes, give yourself a
cool nickname. We don't care what it is, and let
us know at some point if we can use your
message and voice on the air. If you got more
to say than can fit in those three minutes, why
(01:03:29):
not instead send us a good old fashioned email. We
read everything we get.
Speaker 4 (01:03:33):
We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 2 (01:03:56):
Stuff they don't want you to know is a production
of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
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learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A
production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Name is Noel.
Speaker 4 (00:27):
They called me Ben. We're joined as always with our
super producer Paul Mission Control decond. Most importantly, you are here,
and that makes this the stuff they don't want you
to know. Tonight we're exploring a conspiracy theory that believers
will tell you experienced a resurgence recently, and we'll see
(00:48):
if that's actually the case. But look, folks, we've all
heard of lost civilizations like Hyperborea, Lemuria, Atlantis, all the hits.
But tonight's question, what about the Tartarian Empire? Here are
the facts.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
You know, we talked a bit about this off Mike,
and this is not something that I was familiar with.
I think maybe y'all had delved into this in some
previous videos back in the day. But Matt, you had
some strong feelings about this topic.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Oh man, yeah, uh no, we never covered this back
in the day. This is fairly recent, like twenty sixteen
to twenty eighteen. This is I'll just be upfront, this
is a topic that brings me a lot of personal frustration,
and I'm going to do my best to be even
keel on this and really think about it.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
And I hesitated from this topic as well as things
like Kazarian stuff because of the virulent anti semitism that
pops up, which I personally find profoundly offensive, but not
all the Tartarian Empire stuff starts out as an anti Semitic.
The phrase may sound unfamiliar or anachronistic to a lot
(01:59):
of people the modern day, probably the mainstream, but a
few centuries ago, the phrase, or some derivation thereof, was
pretty common in the West. When Europeans heard the word
tartary for several centuries or one of its many versions
like Tartaria and Latin tatarre in France and tata in
Germany and so on, it was a term that had
(02:21):
this sense of far flung lands, exoticism, mystery. Way over
in the East, they thought there was a great and
strange area full of unknown treasures, probably weird animals, great
terrible warriors, so on and so on. That might seem
like an overdone opinion in the modern day. But we
have to realize cartography, the science and art of making maps,
(02:45):
was still a budding craft at this time. And I'm
just gonna put it bluntly. Let's pretend I rolled a
one on diplomacy with this one. A lot of those maps.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Sucked understandably, so, right, I mean they didn't have mapping technology.
I mean, well the head like you know, what do
you call them? Sextants and things like that, and compasses,
but certainly not any kind of geo location or the
kinds of stuff we have today, or even more rudimentary
versions of that. So it's understandable that there would be
some issues.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Well yeah, and depending on how far back you go,
everybody's using different measurement systems. That's so, you know, the
problem that we have with translation when it comes to
words also exists when it comes to things like maps.
Speaker 4 (03:28):
Look at the Torah into the Bible, you know what
I mean, like, look at the idea of spans and
cubits and shout out to shout out to our Canadian friends.
I was talking to some Canadian contacts and they broke
down the weird discrepancies between which measurement systems are used
(03:50):
for what like, you'll travel several miles to the grocery store,
but you'll do it at blank kilometers per hour. It's
just very confusing.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
North of the border, I mean, the rest of the
world still kind of you know, rolls its eyes of
the fact that we don't use the metric system over
here except for certain things. All that to say is
that discrepancies between measurements is a historical problem that can
persist to this day. If not on the same page,
you don't have the same you know, base level, it's
(04:20):
hard to understand what you're looking at.
Speaker 4 (04:22):
So the point is, because there were not really great
maps of most places, and definitely no great map of
the world, entire people were left to largely speculate and
to attempt to assemble puzzle pieces into a greater hole
fantasizing we could say about what possibly could be over
(04:44):
there across the horizon on the other side of the world.
And at this time I think we should pause and
shout out other map related conspiracies. One of my favorite
the puri raised map. We did do a video on
this back in the day because it's a it's a
centuries old map that appears to depending on how you
read the tea leaves appears to describe the coast of
(05:09):
Antarctica without ice.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Oh yeah, with all kinds of different animal species that
were hanging out there.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
Right, Yeah, it's pretty neat one. It's a fun rabbit
hole to go down. So do check out our earlier
videos on that. I think we also had an episode
just on some of those maps in general.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Yeah, And I think the most astounding thing about that
map is that it was created in I think the
early fifteen hundreds, right, yeah, So if you imagine early
fifteen hundreds, Wait, there wasn't ice on Antarctica, your brain
can kind of reel and you can go down that
rabbit hole of like, well, whoa were they hiding something?
Speaker 3 (05:47):
What's going on? Was this I don't remember the story,
I'm not aware of it. Was this unknown hoax? Or
was it? Well meaning? Where did that shake out?
Speaker 4 (05:55):
It appears to it appears to have been made in
good faith. It was after the journeys of Crystabaul Cologne.
It comes from. It was drawn on like gazelle skin
by a professional cartographer. Is also a military man from
the Ottoman Empire. And the thing that's interesting is while
(06:16):
this guy appears to be acting in good faith, not
pulling a hoax. The most historians will tell you that
European culture at least was not aware of Antarctica at
all until about eighteen twenty. So this is an interesting
look at possible discrepancies in the timeline of human exploration.
(06:37):
And we know real discrepancies do exist. People have gotten
things wrong. That's not because they were all dunderheads or something.
It's just because they did not have the benefit of
all the information people have today. The lack of quick
communication roots meant trade could be dangerous, unreliable over distance
rumors for some reason then as now I'll tend to
(07:01):
spread faster than true accurate information. And as a result,
Europeans did not have accurate information of this place on
the map that was just called tartary you would call
it today we call it Siberia Manchuria, which is like
northeast China and Central Asia, which is the huge, huge
(07:21):
inland spot of land that people have fought over for ever.
So cartographers back in the day in Europe looked at
what they knew and they said, screw it, let's call
this whole part tartary, because you know that'll help us
finish a lot of the map because that's a big spot.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Well, imagine you have a deadline right from a king
or something like, we need to have this map by
this time. You're like, oh, Tartary, just call it Tartary.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Would they have had knowledge of the different cultures in
this area at the time or do they just not care?
Speaker 4 (07:55):
Figure, It's a good question. It would have been severely
limited because for time, the information that would be getting
was going to be third or fourth hand or outdated,
or they might speak to someone who traveled some part
of the Silk Road going through Central Asia. But in general,
(08:16):
their knowledge was so limited that they just referred to
the people who lived in this area as Tartars because
they're from Tartary.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Well, and also, I mean, like the the map makers
are kind of probably favoring their own culture, and they're
looking at their you know, their bosses as kind of
the bosses of the world, perhaps the.
Speaker 4 (08:36):
Non universe a little bit. Also, they famously at bad teeth,
which is where the phrase tartar comes from. Nobody fact
check that.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Yeah, but you know, we have to remember no human
is perfect, right, So the cartographers at the time aren't
making perfect maps. Their measurements aren't perfect. The peri Ras
map that we just spoke about, the big problem is
that it's probably not Antarctica that is depicted that. Yes,
it appears that's what Antarctica would be, because of the
(09:06):
orientation of what they're drawing. I think it isn't it
south north and South America and then all the way
down to the tip that's where you see the body
that is supposedly Antarctica. But it's probably not that. It's
just somebody got something a little wrong.
Speaker 4 (09:22):
Like look at the scale of these things. So right
over here, in a big shout out to our friends
down Under, I have above one of my monitors here,
I have a full map of Australia, and it's just
a map of Australia instead of the world, because the
representation of continents on a flat surface is still phenomenally misleading,
(09:47):
you know what I mean. I hate to say it.
Greenland's not that big goes and the African continent is
much larger than it is depicted on these flat maps,
which is why on a globe we're just saying the
problems still exists.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
It's a two D depiction of a three D problem, right.
Speaker 4 (10:07):
Yeah, and look, it's still better than nothing. And that's
what these cartographers were working on too. They were working
on better than nothing, and they knew that they would
be able to improve maps as they acquired more information,
better technology for measuring stuff. This idea, this like four
(10:29):
point thirty pm on a Friday, energy of we got
to turn in the map. Let's just call this whole
third of it tartary. That might sound like they're bad cartographers,
but the reality is this happened all the time in
world maps. You look at early maps from again from
Europeans of North America, and that is way off.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
You guys know what got me excited about the idea
of maps. I bet that y'all experienced or had experience
with this too. The book and Chuck Jones movie adaptation
of The Phantom Toll Booth and the book. There are
tons of these maps of this you know, crazy world
of that book, and they talk about cartographers. I think
(11:14):
that was the first place I ever learned what a
cartographer was. Hmm. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
If we're gonna go personal, I think we all grew
up with some kind of map or globe like in
our house. Maybe that's the nature of having a teacher
as a parent or something. I had a cousin who
gave me when I was very young a large, like
oversized map of the United States, and I just remember
trying to understand how when you're mapping this thing, you
(11:41):
get the details on the coast and like imagining someone
in a ship somehow I guess sketching, right, the intricacies
of that coastlinelets.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
And all the little jagged little features.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
Right, I thought they used hot air balloons from a
young age, like the theory about the Osca lines.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
That's brilliant. I never would have even had that thought.
Speaker 4 (12:04):
I was also wrong.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
Well, but to that point though, guys, a lot of
styling going into these, right, Like these are not intricately detailed,
you know, accurate depictions of those coasts. It's just sort
of like it looks a little jagged, you know, this
far definitely goes out.
Speaker 4 (12:22):
Yeah, but that's is.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
That true though, or are they actually, like I don't know,
a cartography.
Speaker 4 (12:29):
The problem is that they're often agendas, so there's a
lot of nationalism mixed up in this loyalty to king
and country. That's why Greenwich meantime is in Greenwich, what
far from the center of modern civilization, to be honest,
and that's not a ding on the good people of
(12:50):
the United Kingdom. But what we see is, and this
will come into play later in the show this evening,
what we see is, yes, there were agendas at play.
That's why you look at early maps and you see
the center of the map is often going to be
the home country of the photographer. Now that's not necessarily wrong,
(13:13):
but it does put a spin into the mix, and
it's a spin that you could have missed back in
those earlier centuries. It's a spin you could miss today
when you watch certain YouTube videos, which is peak foreshadowing.
So not everybody accepted this idea, this explanation that map
making was an imperfect science back in the day. That's
(13:36):
why if you ask about Tartary or Tartaria nowadays, you
will find no shortage of people arguing this was not
in fact a generic geographic term, but instead it was
the name of an ancient, powerful empire which has largely
been erased from history and literally buried by natural disaster.
(13:58):
What are we talking about, We'll tell you after a
word from our sponsors, Big Map. Here's where it gets crazy.
Strap in we got to introduce you to something called
the mud flood hypothesis. Who doesn't love an abbreviated rhyme
(14:19):
like that?
Speaker 3 (14:20):
So, I mean when you say strap in followed by
the mudfla, it makes me feel like we're about to
go on a ride at six flags or something that sounds.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Like it's going to be about of diarrhea.
Speaker 4 (14:30):
But yeah, it makes me think of that plane in
that sailed to Spain. Another rhyme with just the torrential
biblical poop crisis. The mud flood hypothesis is what happens
in our office restrooms, right, But this one is centered
around the idea that this geographical thing on maps, which
(14:52):
is true. You can see old maps of plenty that
say Tartaria or tart Tartary or whatever. The idea is
that these maps were not describing a general geographic area
where photographers had limited information. It was instead describing an empire,
an empire that may have stood for centuries. Increasingly people
(15:14):
are saying it stood for millennia, spread hudos how far,
and it at least ranged the continent of Eurasia. The
borders of it change as well, which is interesting. And
the further down the rabbit hole you go, you will
see that this empire, at least proponents of this theory
(15:34):
believe that before it was destroyed, it had enormously advanced architecture,
amazing transportation, wireless technology, and technology that doesn't exist today,
like free energy.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
I mean, it does have a certain gravitas to it.
The name alone, right, especially when it's just plopped on
this giant land mass. I could see an initial inkling
being like, huh, what's this about? This seems like some
sort of kingdom, you know, like something out of the
Phantom tot Mooth.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Oh yeah, well, well it's just thinking about a flood.
This conspiracy has flooded social media, and I as as
more and more people make videos about this on YouTube
and Instagram and TikTok. That the thing that you're talking about,
ben at the expansion of the theory itself. It's the
(16:24):
ones that I'm seeing now are saying it was a
global civilization, right, cover everything including Antarctica and.
Speaker 4 (16:33):
New Zealand and the Mallori. You were part of it. Yeah,
we'll get to that. We'll get to that later, because
this is actually a pivotal piece of the turn here.
So this concept, right, this already doesn't it feel kind
of familiar to anybody who read about Atlantis theories? Yeah,
like that's it's like we have Atlantis but at home.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
You know what you know, Ben, You and I just
did an episode about toilets on Regular's History, wherein we
discussed how advanced the Roman Empire was and how they
had all of this poop technology, uh that was then
wiped out by the fall of Rome. So there is
historical precedent for stuff being lost to history and buried,
(17:18):
you know, their advanced civilization. So I think probably there's
some of that feeding into folks like wanting to believe
this to be true.
Speaker 4 (17:27):
Sure. Check out our episode on anachronistic technology or lost technology,
Damascus steel, the Bagdad battery, which is electrolysis kind of
or electroplating excuse me?
Speaker 2 (17:38):
And how control the historical record?
Speaker 3 (17:40):
How? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (17:41):
Who controls the past? Thank that? Yeah, shout out to
that one. And we also know that humanity is super
talented at losing stuff. You know, That's why the city
of Troy was lost and considered mythical. It can happen.
These are not coming out of just whole cloth or
some kind of sudden fictional bout of revelation and epiphany.
(18:04):
Tartari is currently in the mainstream. It's general or the
mainstream version of this conspiracy theory says. Look, it's a
huge part of Asia and Russia up to the Caspian Sea,
in the Ural Mountains, all the way out to the
Pacific Ocean, all the way out to Bulgaria. It hits
the southern borders of China, India, Iran slash Persia. So
(18:25):
it's not just an advanced empire, but it's an extremely
large one. And again to your point, Matt, as the
folklore splinters and evolves in the game of telephone continues playing,
more and more people will make increasingly extravagant and bold claims.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
I love this idea of wireless technology that certainly would
come in handy with an empire of that size. So
I don't know if I buy it.
Speaker 4 (18:50):
Though, Yeah, yeah, I mean, I guess just talking to
people as wireless technology.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
Too, shouting loud enough. Yeah, well, smoke signals is technically
less technology.
Speaker 4 (19:00):
Pigeons, wireless technology, crows a lot of Actually, most technology
back then was wireless because they hadn't invented wires either.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
Not to mention that who was it it was like
the seed of bluetooth technology was actually invented by like
an actor of a woman whose name is totally is
giving me now, in like the twenties or something like that.
It was long ago and the seed that led to
ultimately bluetooth technology was invented way before anyone figured out
(19:31):
quite what to do with it, just just.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
Saying yeah, and this this happens pretty often. It was
heady Lamar, that's right, right, this Happenstarion. Yes, of course
check out my YouTube videos, bro, but actually no, do
check out our YouTube channel. We promise it's a little
bit different from this stuff, although in stuff they don't
want you to know, not not tooting our own Eldridge horn.
(19:55):
I think you can find some precedents for format of
a lot of these videos, quite honest with you. But
before we dive deeper into the mud, we got to
ask ourselves logically, all right, there's this huge thing. It's
the biggest thing ever. They're super advanced. They're all over
at least Eurasia, if not the world. They're running stuff.
(20:16):
They're in the catbird seed of civilization. But what happened
to them? This is where the mud flood idea comes
into play, which very interesting. How would we describe that
in like a high level term mud flood hypothesis?
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Well, you have to explain, how in the heck did
this giant civilization with all this intense architecture that we
haven't even really get fully gotten into the architecture yet,
how did it disappear? Why is it not in the
historical record? Well, maybe there was a natural disaster that
caused all of this stuff not to just be you know,
(20:54):
the buildings to be destroyed, but the remnants of those
buildings to be covered up literally in dirt.
Speaker 4 (21:01):
To be literally buried to time. Yeah, that's an excellent
that's an excellent summation of it. You know. Then there's
the idea that this occurred in step with two other
intervening variables. The first is that there was a tremendous war.
Either sometimes it's called an internal war. Sometimes it's more
(21:23):
of a tartaria versus everybody on the planet war. But
either way, the idea is that this ancient war involved
the equivalent of what we would call modern energy weapons
or nuclear power, or possibly technology is still not possessed
by modern nations today. This is similar to the idea
that ancient Vedic text described nuclear war, so it's pulling
(21:46):
from that as well.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
But you'll often hear about frequency tools and weapons like
that can somehow lock into the well. I forget some
of the terminology that's used in these, but you levitate
things by shooting sound at large objects and things like that.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
And this is the same kind of stuff that comes
up about Atlantis too, that they had like advanced weaponry
and potential technology that doesn't exist. I think it's he
can't ignore the parallels.
Speaker 4 (22:19):
And along the way you'll see, folks, we're pulling out
pre existing pieces of other conspiratorial beliefs or alternative revisionist
slash pseudo history. The big thing is to a point
you were talking about earlier, Matt. Proponents of the Tartaria
Empire conspiracy will often also accuse other civilizations of actively
(22:45):
erasing Tartaria from the history books. And usually though they'll
be accusing civilizations that are a bit older, but still
we're around at the time photography was invented or went mainstream,
because the proof is in the picture, right, So you'll
see a lot of pictures that purport to pardon the
(23:08):
alliteration pardon the alliteration that purport to prove this theory.
That's a heck of a story. That's the tartaria thing.
At the basics. Your mileage may vary. We're giving you
the factory issue conspiracy, but you need to understand most
of the videos or most of the stuff you encounter
arguing that this is true. They're going to have their
(23:29):
own custom add ons. They're going to talk about vaccination,
they're going to talk about flat earth. They're going to
say some pretty screwed up stuff about different ethnicities, religions,
or creeds, and they're going to say it in a
feedback loop form, which is very yes, and and we'll
get to that at the end of tonight's show. But
why don't we let's look at the proof for this story.
(23:52):
It's kind of dodgy. We talked about the countless YouTube
videos bringing up in recent years, and you'll often we're
not criticizing this, we're describing it. You'll often hear weird
voiceover describing the conspiracy, accompanied by visuals, often out of context,
old photographs of people digging through mud to unearth lower
(24:16):
levels of buildings, or someone pointing to a building that
like the like the Long Lines building in Manhattan seems
unusual compared to its neighbors. And then, weirdly enough, you'll
see a lot of photos of Robert Wadlow, who for
a time was the world's largest man topic the guy.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
You always see sculptures of at like Ripley's Museums, right
eight foot one.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
There's a connection here to the Smithsonian conspiracy about giant
skeletons right right, And the other thing. I just want
to point out about those videos there. In every single
one I've seen, there is zero sourcing. So it is
a person with an opinion about a building, and that
(25:01):
building looks way too old to be here in the
center of New York City, or way too different. That
Long Lines building, like you mentioned, Ben, just sticks out
too much. There's no way it wasn't here before New
York City was built.
Speaker 4 (25:13):
You know, real buildings in Chicago, things that have easily
traceable histories of construction. And then it's often it's often
also presented in a just asking questions, Oh yeah, you
know what I mean, Like, hey, hey bro, I'm just
asking questions.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
I'm pretty sure that structure was built at the Niagara Falls,
Like I can't tell, but that looks human made to me.
Speaker 4 (25:40):
I mean, I'm asking, maybe Earth is round now, but
when did that happen? Exactly? So, like when did they
roll that burrito together? You know it's it's true though
that hearing spooky voiceover with sinister archival footage that does
sound familiar to us, very much so, and I even
(26:02):
feel a little bit like you know, Leaves of Grass.
Is this amazing, amazing poetic work by Walt Whitman, But
it also gave birth to a lot of terrible free
verse poetry.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
So is this our fault?
Speaker 4 (26:18):
Is this our fault? It's the question.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (26:20):
We always wanted to know that we were standing on
a quantitative, like a substantive series of sources. And these videos,
to your point, Matt, they're heavy on good storytelling. Honestly,
they're just very light on solid, much needed context, Like
we were talking about this off air. They'll point to
(26:43):
CIA documents from the nineteen fifties that were declassified after
the Cold War, but at the time there were secret
documents studying this efforts of Soviet Russia to yes erase cultures,
to rename areas, to do the same thing that allegedly
happened to the Tartarian Empire. And these are presentatives, smoking
(27:07):
gun level proof. There's a little bit of truth to it,
you know, Nola, you were talking about different etymological roots.
We love etymology here. But you'll see CIA docs that
are declassified that are available on the websites or on
the official CIO website right now that say things like
the Khanate of Kason was named Tartar stunt, it was
(27:30):
a republic of the Russian Federation and then it wasn't.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Yeah, so there, So you show video of that document
right just to still image of that document, and you
sit there and you talk about it for a while,
you analyze it without any other context. For a viewer
who might be leaning towards wold, there might be something here.
It feels astounding and real and definitely proof.
Speaker 4 (27:55):
As long as you don't read pass the headline. And
you know that's we got to be honest. We said
it before. There are a lot of hard working people
in those organizations, but they're not often hired for their
sexy writing skill. The format of these documents is not
you know, is not purple prose page turning stuff.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
Yeah, and speaking of the etymological twists, I guess I
think we're all kind of like dogs with bones when
it comes to this kind of stuff. The word tartary
made me immediately conjure images of the Greek mythological hellscape
that is tartar Us, and just I found a reference that,
you know, Europeans, who were largely the ones mapping this
(28:39):
part of the world, they had negative opinions about this
part of the world, often tied to the Mongol invasions. Yeah,
savage is all that kind of stuff, a lot of xenophobic,
kind of racist, you know, opinions about this part of
the world and their civilization. So it's almost like they
(28:59):
were at that are because tatar was one version of
it that existed prior to this. And then adding that
r was almost like an intentional way in the eighteenth
century of conjuring images of hell.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Yeah, dude, we haven't got to yet. But this thing
coincides with hollow Worth theories, right and underground civilizations and stuff.
It's weird how then the words are just matching up
with the how the theory has evolved.
Speaker 4 (29:27):
It all goes together. It's like a girl talk level
of mixtape. A referenced we care about. But yes, they'll also,
in addition to these to these ostensible smoking gun level
proofs from the CIA, they'll also spend some time tracing
the gradual disappearance of the phrase tartary from maps. So
(29:49):
in eighteen twenty four you see that there's China and
there's something called Chinese Tartaria, which is truly north of China.
Simple enough, fast forward decades eighteen fifty, Mongolia begins to
appear where Tartaria was, and China expands to become an empire.
Eventually Tartaria disappears from view, it's no longer on the maps.
(30:13):
If you are assuming that other cultures are actively working
to hide the knowledge of some super advanced sci fi
civilization from the days of YR, then it does seem
like they're gradually erasing culture. But then if you realize
that map making kind of sucked for a while, then
you can view these exact same process as cartographers getting
(30:38):
better at their craft, you know what I mean. It's
a bit of a rorshak painting.
Speaker 3 (30:44):
Also, like, I know we're gonna get to more of this,
but like, show me the fossilized laser gun. Where's that?
You know? I want to see that?
Speaker 4 (30:55):
At which point there will be a slight matrix dodge,
which I've done before or too in some things where
it says, well, there's not proof of that, but what
about the antiquate therap mechanism and then boom, you gotta
stock image of that.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Or or the pyramids at Giza, and the statement is
always we don't understand what these were actually used for.
These specific chambers were actually for this, and that's how
you know they were able to send free energy out
to the entire area with that singular great pyramid and
(31:29):
all this stuff, and you know, it's stuff that you
can't prove, and it's stuff that you also can't in
the moment disprove, because the argument is always no, but
that's a lie, like they put that story there as
a lie to cover up the reality.
Speaker 4 (31:47):
But then yes, naturally, the next step is cool, then
build it again, or say specifically why it can't be
done today? Why can't it you know what I mean,
And let's get let's get some of today's top scientists
on it, and then the argument will become, well, they're
(32:09):
not allowed to do it. Oh yeah, yeah, for.
Speaker 3 (32:12):
Some reason, it's suppressed or oppressed.
Speaker 4 (32:14):
And technological suppression is real it very much is. But
the next thing, the one you see cited the most
the other the more popular reading tea leaves or rorshak
interpretation here orbits around. Architecture believers seek evidence for the
existence of Tartaria in seemingly mismatched architecture found across Europe, Asia,
(32:37):
even parts of Antarctica are very rural places where what
the mainstream considers natural geographical or natural geological formations to
be ancient evidence of large things like now that the
climate is eroding the natural state of Antarctica and mountains
(32:58):
are popping up out of the ice. Stuff like that,
people are going people are going nuts, and no one's
asking actual geologist about it. So these styles, the architectural styles,
they argue, are not examples of cross culture pollination, like
the onion domes that you see in Moscow and Saint
(33:18):
Petersburg and whatever. Seeing those somewhere else like in the
Middle East, that doesn't mean those people talk to each
other and architects traded tips and ripped each other off
and stuff. That means that they were all built by
the Tartarians at some point before they were betrayed by
a conspiracy of lesser later empires. Who struck during that
(33:43):
biblical level of mud flooding. So they saw an opportunity.
They hated that Tartaria was great, and for that reason
alone they sank the empire.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
Ugh, these buildings are just too intricate. Haters for those buildings.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
Haters.
Speaker 3 (34:00):
That's the thing about a lot of these kind of
like overly oversimplified kind of concepts like this. It totally
discounts the notion of parallel thinking, you know what I mean.
It's like, no, there has to be there, there has
to be a connection, it has to be there's no
other way, there's another way. It's that there weren't you know,
every idea under the sun didn't exist yet. It was
(34:23):
early in the historical record. People were coming up with
stuff at the same time, you know, hundreds and hundreds
of miles apart from one another, with no means of communicating.
Speaker 4 (34:33):
Right, Like we see this all the time, Like a
pyramid is just actually a very durable way to stack rocks.
That's why they stick around longer than towers. So going
back to the architectural idea here in the Tartarian Empire conspiracy,
the concept is that there are in general, not a
ton of different types of architecture. There are only two. First,
(34:57):
modern architecture described as is brutalist, it's cheap, it's quickly produced,
it has no personality, and Frank Lloyd Wright is not
real or whatever. And then there's everything else. Everything you
think is interesting is actually Tartarian architecture. Anything that looks ornate,
(35:17):
pre modern, anything that's classical, anything that is an interesting
Western style. Sometimes it's also applied to non Western structures,
the taj Mahal, the Pyramids, the Great Wall of China. Essentially,
at some point in the Tartarian Empire conspiracy, they built
everything that looks cool. Everything that is not cool was
(35:41):
built by the enemies of Tartaria. You can see this
as a bit of a broad brush. I, for one,
think brutalist architecture looks mad cool.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
That's just mean.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
Yeah, I think it's really interesting, and some of it's
very intricate. If it's you know, it's obviously minimal, but
it's like minimal maximal kind of it's interesting.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
I don't know, isn't There's some few energy about brutalism
that I really dig I don't know. It's just that
coach every geometrical simple structures with class. I don't know, man,
I mean I'm into it. You guys are familiar with. Like,
so we're in Atlanta, and if you look at some
of these really fancy neighborhoods, they'll have a new construction
(36:25):
that has a house, but it'll have a house that's
like just rectangles kind of stacked in weird configurations.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
Totally out of place, stick out like a sore thumb
amongst the old classic, you know, picket fence type houses.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
Right well, I'm trying to figure out why I'm so
obsessed with it, Like I love.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
It in some way cool when they make sense, Like
if you go to like Los Angeles or whatever, and
you see all these houses in the Hollywood Hills or
like San Francisco and stuff, they make sense. They're sort
of like there's a certain continuity to them. But here
they just feel like some rich person had a bunch
of money and just plopped one down kind of just
sticks out like a sore thumb. I don't dislike the architecture.
(37:03):
I just dislike how doesn't have a continuity to it.
I don't know, that's just me.
Speaker 4 (37:08):
So we can agree, though, you guys can agree that
maybe this concept of all architecture being two schools or
only two categories is a bit misleading.
Speaker 3 (37:19):
It's absurd.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
Yeahulous, I just wanted to know.
Speaker 4 (37:24):
I feel you, man, and it's true. Like there's so
architecture is like any craft. It is an opportunity for
creative expression, constrained by common things right function, right function,
environmental variable, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. The issue
(37:45):
is like any other art, architects, construction workers, everybody, they
came up with multiple answers to this and multiple creative answers.
So calling it all tartarian architecture feels cool, feel like
it's part of a global conspiracy that you figured out.
But it also it's kind of crappy to millions of
(38:09):
people who worked really hard on expressing themselves or building
cool stuff.
Speaker 3 (38:14):
It's the same way it feels crappy you to slap
tartaria on this vastly culturally different part of the world
with among these borders in that giant chunk on that
old map, huge differences. There's no you know, singular culture
in that part of the world. They're all very, very
(38:35):
different and have their own backstories, and it seems to
me like a reductive view of racist European map makers.
Speaker 4 (38:43):
Well, it's also you know, we see it again with
ancient Aliens. There's no way people backed inn could have
built that. And also I think the phrase mongol horde
is a little bit of negative pr Although sup were good,
they did some terrible, terrible, terrible things.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
Can we give one example of the architecture, just a
one building, right, yeah, just we mentioned the Long Lines
building right already, the crazy brutalist no window having weird
structure in Manhattan.
Speaker 4 (39:14):
Right, but nothing sketchy.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
But again that kind of doesn't fit the mold of
this because it is more of a brutalist structure, more
modern thing of Singer Building. The Singer Building is an
excellent choice to think about ben because it's built in
the super late eighteen hundreds. It only sticks around until
nineteen sixty seven when it is demolished. It was for
(39:40):
a time the tallest building in the world when it
was created, at like six hundred and twenty feet in
the air. And it seems to fit this mold really
well of this conspiracy because it was crazy intricate, the
especially the work on the home thing. Yeah, and the
(40:00):
work on the outside of the structure. Right, So if
you behold it from street level there in New York,
it's this incredible looking ornate thing. But then why was
it you know, it was the tallest building. Why did
they crash that thing down after what seventy years?
Speaker 4 (40:17):
Yeah, so a Chicago federal building, which was had a
larger dome than the Capitol, was raised only sixty years
after its completion. You'll find people arguing as well, proponents
of this theory that World War two happened because modern
powers were fighting over stealing secrets of old Tataria or
(40:40):
destroying all traces of its existence. So people weren't being
bombed because world powers were in a war. These places
were being bombed to get rid of those buildings.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
And that's a theory that goes back to theories about
the invasion of Iraq by the United States when we
were supposed to be fighting al Qaeda and terrorism. There
are so many theories out there about the true reason
that we.
Speaker 4 (41:05):
Were getting ancient artifacts from the National Museum.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
Yeah, well that actually was happening right with the museums
were rated right, and absolutely integral historical structures were just
demolished during that war.
Speaker 4 (41:20):
That one theory though the Artifact story just in full disclosure,
that's close to me because I wrote a pretty good
sci fi story about no straight up horror story about it.
But yeah, the idea that there are ulterior motives behind
these large scale world conflicts, that's not distinct to World
(41:41):
War Two. It's not distinct to a rock. It's not
distinct to Vietnam, the Korean War. Pretty Much every war,
just because of the global toll it takes, is going
to have numerous, numerous alleged ulterior motives, and sometimes, just
to be completely freakin' honest, those motives are true. Sometimes
(42:03):
there definitely are ulterior motives. Like Goddafi was a real
piece issue way before he ever got deposed, and then
he started messing with the hegemonic currency of the region,
which is the French African dinar, right, and he wanted
to make his own, the African franc and he wanted
(42:23):
to make his own kind of African equivalent.
Speaker 3 (42:26):
Of the Euro.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
Say big no no.
Speaker 4 (42:29):
It was a big no no, and he can read
about it. So whenever somebody says, whatever, somebody speaks to
you in terms of like ideology, the greater good, we're
doing the right thing. American spirit whatever, not the cigarettes.
But yeah, those two ask what resources are in play,
and there's where you'll find the answer. But the problem
(42:52):
with this architecture too, and the ideas of the war
well more so in the architecture, is that each in
every case we have found when you see the photos
that pop up about this theory, there isn't to your point, Matt,
there isn't clear sourcing. You can find the providence of
the photos through something as simple as Google's image search,
(43:14):
and every time they lead back to clearly explainable, documented things.
If you go back to the proponents of these theories,
they may say, Okay, yes, and I acknowledge that that
part might not be true, that hebro what about this,
and then you have to go repeat it.
Speaker 2 (43:33):
Well, yeah, I'm just thinking about the Singer building. You
can go online right now and see archival photos of
that building in construction at the time in eighteen eighty
nine or whatever it was, and you can actually see that.
But it often it is not enough proof to convince
somebody that that image isn't fake, right, And it kind
(43:57):
of makes you question yourself to some extent. I think
that's why maybe this theory is so attractive to a
lot of people because it's got that matrix vibe to
it where it makes you think, oh, well, maybe I
don't know the whole truth. Maybe they have been pulling
something over my eyes and I literally am unable to
(44:17):
see it because of the lens I got.
Speaker 4 (44:19):
And I like this thing. We're going into self image
because that's going to be very important to the final
turn of tonight's story. The proving or disproving these concepts
to it becomes even more tedious. It's like when Hercules
had to do all those crazy tasks. It is indeed
a herculean task to try to address each point of
(44:43):
these theories, because these theories have become fractals. Right inside
you find a larger pattern associated with another thing, and
it continues ad infinitum. The more fantastical claims will argue
Tartaria was home to giants, and then boom, in your
that's where Robert Wadlow shows up, and they'll say the
(45:04):
mud flood that wiped wiped out this ancient empire of
superquol giants was also the basis of biblical flood myths,
and people have been lying to you about the true
timeline of human slash giant civilization.
Speaker 2 (45:22):
You haven't even thought about the Nephilim yet, dude.
Speaker 4 (45:25):
Right, you haven't even been by the employee only area
of the Smithsonian, right, because you don't have the clearance
to get past the cafe. And that's why, for this reason,
Tartarian Empire conspiracies as a group have been called the
QAnon of architecture. Like QAnon theories, this stuff continues to splinter.
(45:49):
More and more people add their own spins or agendas
to the modern folklore, and I think that leads us
naturally to what could be called arguments against Tartaria. So
maybe we take a break from our sponsor, who is
of course big mud Flood, and will be back to
dig into why historians don't believe this. We're back, all right,
(46:17):
So let's set aside the easily disprovable photographs for a second.
More proof against this theory or the reasons why people
who don't believe it say that it's malarchy. First, despite
rocking this patina of the ancient past, it turns out
Tartaria and the mudflood is a very recent thing. Brian
(46:38):
Dunning over Skeptoid says this idea exists almost entirely on
the Internet, if not entirely the While it pulls a
lot of ancient stuff or much older conspiracy theories as
a single consolidated core idea, it only dates back to
(46:58):
Get This twenty sixteen twenty seventeen, which means that our
conspiracy to start this little show is older than the
conspiracy of Tartaria, at least the way it is presented.
The skeptoid investigation of this is really interesting because they also,
like we were talking about, using Google reverse image search
(47:21):
and things like that, they're using They're using Google trends
to trace the popularity of phrases like mudflood, mud flood theory,
or Tartaria, and it looks like the Internet overall wasn't
really responding to this stuff until about December of twenty eighteen,
(47:43):
which causes Dunning to go see if he can find
an origin point for all these YouTube videos, and the
closest he got is he found a one YouTube user
named Philip Druzenen who had been posting videos about mudflood
concepts since August of twenty sixty very low viewership at first,
(48:05):
he keeps doing it. He's in it for the love
of the game. Right, and he's probably a good faith
actor too, he's not trying to like necessarily sell a
book or whatever. And then in December twenty eighteen or
January twenty nineteen, he got an enormous spike and downloads,
right around the time the mainstream Internet started saying, tell
(48:26):
me more about this mud flood.
Speaker 3 (48:27):
Interesting. I mean, it does seem that he was, like
you said, you know, acting in good faith and was
maybe even a little confused as to why he all
of a sudden got this boost in attention.
Speaker 2 (48:38):
Right, yeah, And there was other stuff getting real, real
popular and maybe even kind of connected to this theory, what.
Speaker 3 (48:47):
Right, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (48:48):
And for Dunning's part, he is not so much interested
in why the spike and attention occurred, why this mainstreaming
occurred when it did, as he is concerned or I
take it to me fascinated by the crazy growth of
this theory, similar again to the growth of QAnon, as
you pointed out, and that I think is what can
(49:10):
make Tartaria as a concept dangerous because it can be weaponized,
just like QAnon got started out with asking questions, which
is what this show is all about, and then led
to you know, led to people driven to desperation and
(49:30):
showing up in a pizza place strapped and ready to
shoot folks. Right, that's the concern people have about the
leveraging or weaponization of Tartaria.
Speaker 3 (49:42):
You know.
Speaker 4 (49:42):
That's why you can easily because there's a guy named
Peter Diddo talks to Bloomberg and he describes Tartaria and
QAnon as both having cafeteria quality. There's no single authoritative
voice really, a little.
Speaker 3 (49:59):
Of that makes it together. Got myself a cast role.
Speaker 2 (50:03):
Well, yeah, everybody is interpreting images in videos and just
kind of giving their own spin and what they think
it is.
Speaker 4 (50:11):
It's like a CP or house of leaves.
Speaker 2 (50:13):
Mm hmm, which again makes it fun when you're in it.
When you're participating in it, it's exciting you're sharing this
concept that you've had, right, Oh man, I had this idea.
Maybe maybe people will like it.
Speaker 3 (50:26):
It's it's almost more like being part of a massive
online game than it is actual research or actual you know,
like we're being completely non biased about this. You're in
a community that clearly kind of has an end goal
in mind, and you're playing along. You know, I mean
not to disdiminish anyone's you know, internet time or whatever,
(50:48):
but I think it's easy to get sucked into that
because it does start to feel like you're playing your
you're living your own choose your adventure kind of situation.
Speaker 4 (50:56):
Yeah, I would, I would agree with that, and I
would expand on it to say that this reminds me
very much as a new iteration one of my favorite
games from the surrealist movement, Exquisite Corpse. I write a sentence,
you write, the next one pass to great, and we
don't know what story will end up being. I would
(51:18):
also say that the cafeteria quality in Tartaria is it's
worse than an actual cafeteria because you don't get to
just pick from the stuff that's already at the buffet.
You could bring your own thing from home and share
it with the class. And that's why you can easily
find arguments about Tartaria descending into racism, anti semitism because
(51:42):
of course, as well as Russian nationalism, which is huge
in this shout out to Phantom time man.
Speaker 3 (51:48):
You can really easily in this scenario end up with
something that the Zelda games called dubious food.
Speaker 4 (51:55):
Or chunks.
Speaker 3 (51:57):
It's when you're cooking in the Zelda games, and you
combine ingredients that don't go together, you end up with
this weird, blurred pile of sludge that they call dubious food.
Speaker 4 (52:07):
But when you try to make a potion blind and
Skyrim and you get your ingredients wrong. And so this
is something that's strange because Bloomberg and a couple of
other investigators not associated with Bloomberg did what we've been
describing a survey of videos and discussions in various forums
(52:29):
and subredits and so on, and you see the conspiratorial
threads all connect, and they all connect with these other agendas,
other weirdly specific things like if you have you ever
just had a general conversation with someone and they keep
going back to a really specific thing, you know, they're like, well,
(52:49):
you know what, that reminds me of the Byzantine Empire,
And you're like, really, Tina Turner, all right, bro, walk
me through it.
Speaker 2 (52:56):
You have some weird combos.
Speaker 3 (52:57):
Ben, remember if this was on the if we was
on the episode, if it was beforehand. But the idea
of like, well what about the anti kilar mechanism, Like
that's unrelated but similar enough to like give my question
about buried laser guns I think, yeah, it was, it
was earlier. But it's it's a it's just a tactic.
It's a it's a rhetorical tactic. You know. It's like,
I don't really have any proof, I don't have a
(53:18):
leg to stand on. Let me throw out this diversion,
you know. And then there's and that's why you will
see someone come in and say, well, also flat earth,
don't get vaccinated. That presidential alert from a while back
turns people into five G zombies. Uh, the banking cartels
and you know, denial of the Holocaust and stuff like that.
(53:41):
And you'll even see historical recasting of who who were
the Tartars, right, that's the billion dollar question. You'll see
arguments that actually in Central Asia during the times of
the Mongol Empire, these people were red haired, blue eyed,
and you're damn sure they were white. So Silk Road areas,
(54:04):
it goes off the rails or into the mud so quickly.
I think we could take just a second to shout
out how Russian nationalists very effectively weaponized this. We did
an earlier episode on Phantom Time. The idea of phantom
Time is that several hundred years in the acknowledged mainstream
timeline of human civilization are totally made up. And the
(54:28):
implication is they were totally made up as a way
of downplaying Russia's great role as the global superpower, and
that all the enemies of Russia, which are everyone but Russia,
has lied to their children. They're still pretty sore about that. Huh.
Speaker 4 (54:46):
Yeah, they're pretty sorry about that. Although Putin just went
out and did some myth busting yesterday, guys. He says
he he says they got the official conclusion back on
Pregosian's plane. He said they the Wagner group was on
the plane. They got drunk, they started playing with hand grenades,
and they exploded themselves. Cool you that's what he said. Wow,
(55:11):
he said that, He said they were That's that's his
understanding of events from.
Speaker 2 (55:16):
Crazy that I could kind of see that happening.
Speaker 3 (55:19):
Yes, that's the thing that so wild. One person's myth
buster is another myth maker. You know, this is that
is out of control.
Speaker 2 (55:27):
Just just to stampoot for a second. Did you see
the footage of him, uh cheers ing with Kim Jong un.
They both had champagne. Did you see that where they're
standing together for a photo op. They do a cheers,
and then they both kind of look at their champagne
glasses like you drink first, No, no, you drink.
Speaker 3 (55:48):
Somebody should memify that. That's perfect.
Speaker 4 (55:52):
Their lives are memes in the worst way. But if
we look at this Russian weaponization of Tartaria, than what
we see is the argument says Tartaria is a real
lost empire. It's the actual real name of Russia. They're
trying to hide the true historical glory of Russia from
the world and from the Russian people. The implication being
(56:15):
that Tartaria should rise again as what it really is,
Russia the one global superpower. And so we always have
to ask questions first, why would world governments cover all
this amazing stuff up. There's no one answer. It depends
on which version of the theory or reading on the
flip side. Why would somebody enter your conversation about Tartaria,
(56:38):
even if it's just fun, you know, creepypasta speculative stuff.
Why would they enter that conversation and strongly push for
one specific point about their own pet theory or belief.
This teaches us a great deal about the human mind
and social dynamics. People are not stupid, people are like
the photographers back in the day, working with the information
(56:59):
they have the ability or inclination to access. And that's
why you see, like, Okay, this bugs me, and this
might be a hot take, but I've seen it happen
so many times, so many things. This happens in a
lot of conspiracy theories. There's an attempt to gain community
as well as, even more importantly, a sense of importance
(57:21):
or meaning to oneself and one's own identity. That's why,
you know, somebody in New Zealand says, here's the truth
about Tataria and the Maori people, right, And I was
shocked to find that out because.
Speaker 3 (57:34):
I am Maori.
Speaker 4 (57:36):
That's it's similar to so many genealogical groups. You guys know,
I'm a lungeon. And one of the most weird things
about that is whenever somebody comes up with a conspiracy
theory about a real tri racial isolate, their conspiracy theory
always goes back to And this changed my understanding of
(57:57):
myself and it turns out that I'm awesome, And that's
kind of sad.
Speaker 2 (58:03):
What kind of architecture is being hidden up in the
foothills of Tennessee, man.
Speaker 3 (58:08):
Or there's also the flip side of that, where I
forget the guy's name, but there's like a PBS show
where they dig deep into people's genealogy and it turns
out that my great great grandpapa owned all the slaves,
and now I'm awful, or at the very least, it
makes me rethink my whole perception of my family line,
you know.
Speaker 4 (58:27):
The inclination being hey, internet strangers, Hey, other people think
more about me, because that's what humans love. They want
to center themselves, right, It's a conversation is more interesting
when I feel it is somehow about me says humanity,
and that's not cool. It's not fun for you know,
(58:48):
the other people who also exist in the conversation unless
they can identify with that or they can have some
sort of buy it if they can yes, and their
way into saying yes, that's true. And also as someone
like I'm just making up a weird example like and
also as someone from as someone from Turkey, this is
(59:12):
how it applies to me, and so it's it's a
feedback loop, right, And that's why otherwise completely rational people
will agree with folks who might be bad faith actors,
might be paid internet trolls, intruding their communities, then you can.
If you try to disagree, even politely, you might be dismissed.
You might be confronted with hostility because you are disincentivized
(59:37):
from disproving something that is clearly untrue. You are strongly
incentivized to accept that. And yes, and your own spin
of new speculation.
Speaker 3 (59:46):
Well, if you're the member of a society where this
kind of revisionist history is kind of part of the
ideology of whatever regime is in power, and you go
against it, you could be killed.
Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
I mean, I do want to discount this either anytime
any let's say category or style of video content, audio content,
as soon as it starts to take off in popularity,
right and catches fire, there are going to be countless
individuals who look at that and think, Okay, I'm going
(01:00:22):
to make that type of content too, because I can
probably create a revenue stream for myself. Right sure, And
it could be and it could not be nefarious in
any way. It's just, hey, I can actually make some
money maybe if I make tartarian conspiracy videos, right.
Speaker 4 (01:00:37):
And if I use chat GPT or another similar thing. Correctly,
I don't have to write it either. It can just scrape,
and it can scrape and make more of the same
of what has already been proven to be successful. That's
what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (01:00:49):
And what you end up with is a giant Internet
mud flood of videos about tartaria exactly.
Speaker 4 (01:00:56):
Okay, yeah, yeah, is it okay if I return to
the feedback loop because they just want to finish, I
want to close the loop on this. The reason it
works is people are strongly incentivized to accept a proposal
or speculation in this social sphere, and then further you
add your own, maybe something a little more centered around
your self image, your pre existing beliefs, your agendas, and
(01:01:18):
you do that because you will receive validation, heightened importance
to the group, and return. It's a dopamine casino all
over again. And that means that everybody wants their turn
on the swing, everybody wants their spot on the merry ground.
So that just increases the speed of the game and
then soon enough, rinse, repeat and boom. Just like swimming
(01:01:40):
away from the shore in the ocean, you might turn
around and think you were swimming straight, but you realize
you're miles away from where you began. And that means
like as much as we love improv online conspiracies might
require us to trade our yes and for a little
bit of well, actually, or the Socratic method, you know,
(01:02:01):
which is a more friendlier way of the open hand?
Why is that?
Speaker 3 (01:02:04):
Well?
Speaker 4 (01:02:05):
What about this?
Speaker 3 (01:02:06):
You know?
Speaker 4 (01:02:06):
And maybe we give in the interest of fairness, because
again it's a great investigation. I say we give the
very last word to Brian Dunning. At the end of
his examination, he asked a great question, why did these
tartarian giants live in houses and buildings the exact same
size as ours?
Speaker 3 (01:02:24):
Mic Drop Dunning?
Speaker 4 (01:02:28):
Let us know what you think, folks, So we hope
you enjoyed this. We clearly have some feelings about it.
We want to hear your thoughts. We want to hear
maybe the most interesting extreme versions you found. We want
to hear. Yeah, just let us know what's.
Speaker 1 (01:02:44):
On your mind.
Speaker 4 (01:02:44):
Let us know what episodes you think we should cover
in the future as well. We want to be easy
to find on the internet. All you have to do
is go to your local tartarian forum. Kidding Kitdting, I
think yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:02:57):
You can find us on x KA, Twitter, YouTube, Facebook,
at the handle conspiracy stuff on Instagram and TikTok. We
are conspiracy stuff show.
Speaker 2 (01:03:08):
Hey, do you like using your phone to use your
voice to make a call, Well you can call us.
Our number is one eight three three std WYTK. When
you call in, you've got three minutes, give yourself a
cool nickname. We don't care what it is, and let
us know at some point if we can use your
message and voice on the air. If you got more
to say than can fit in those three minutes, why
(01:03:29):
not instead send us a good old fashioned email. We
read everything we get.
Speaker 4 (01:03:33):
We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 2 (01:03:56):
Stuff they don't want you to know is a production
of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Stuff They Don't Want You To Know News
Hosts And Creators
Matt Frederick
Ben Bowlin
Noel Brown
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