April 21, 2017 • 59 mins
On April 30th, 1945, one of the most infamous men in recent history died by his own hand as Allied forces bore down on his bunker. At least, that’s the official story. Yet for decades historians and theorists across the planet have questioned this narrative -- so what actually happened to Adolf Hitler?
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
From UFOs to psychic power. Since government conspiracies, history is
riddled with unexplained events, you can turn back now or
learn the stuff they don't want you to know. Welcome
(00:22):
back to the show. My name is Matt. My name
isn't all they call me Ben? You are you that
makes this stuff they don't want you to know? We're
back right in the studio. Yeah, we're back in the studio.
We returned from our sojourn to Brooklyn. You can hear
that episode the live when we did in full on
our website. Stuff they don't want you to know dot
(00:45):
com or wherever you find podcasts, especially Apple podcasts. Yes,
especially Apple podcast hit that hot new rebrand and uh
we had a heck of a time doing it. We
hope to do more live shows in the future. So
as a side note, if you would like us to
come to your town, let us know so we can
(01:08):
show our bosses that they should send us on a
field trip. Offer us up a couch to crash on.
We would be very much appreciative of that kind of gesture.
And or a five star hotel whatever you If you
happen to be a big wig and you are five
star hotels you know, six of you got them under
I think four and a half is the best I've
(01:29):
ever done. Well, I can't disclose a lot of my
travel circumstances. I like to keep that underground. And what
we're talking about today, speaking of overly labored segues uh
concerns one of the most famous allegations of underground travel
(01:50):
in modern history. This is a story about a titular
incident in World War Two in April Night King, when
the Fura of Germany a k a. Adolf Hitler died.
For decades since, this single event has remained one of
the most discussed moments of the entire war. He died
(02:13):
in a bunker, right, Yes, it was a five star bunker,
he probably, Actually it was, Yeah, And we have some
of the we have some of the architecture about Actually,
you know what I'm remembering, and we'll get to this
later in the episode. It wasn't that great a five
star not. I don't think it was a Michelin. I
don't think that Michelin started facilities. As far as food goes,
(02:36):
it was it was generally spoiler alert, an unpleasant place,
but mostly secure from shelling. Yeah. Well, in theory, the
death of Hitler signaled a tremendous blow to the right,
and even today, historians continue to debate about the nature
and degree of this blow because there's this big question.
(02:58):
Was Hitler at this point genuinely a good tactician or
had he become increasingly unhinged interrrational due to drug use.
And now we're talking about like emphetamans. He was hopped
up on goofballs. Yeah, and at the time, you know,
in World War Two we hear a lot about use
(03:19):
of methamphetamines, perhaps by Hitler or Saxis powers. But as
we examined in our previous episodes on drug use in
the military, amphetamines were something that everybody was interested in,
you know. And thank you, by the way to everybody
who wrote in in the listener mail episode that you
(03:41):
Nolan you Met did where we actually had a caller
uh call in and talk about drugs in the military.
And if you haven't listened to that episode, please check
it out. It was tremendously education. It's very kind bend.
It was not a bad effort for for us being
without our our compatriot. Oh I was. I was listening
(04:03):
to it on a plane and I think there were
there were some pretty funny moments that kind of creeped
out the ladies sitting next to me. But you know,
you made a nice appearance where you sort of possessed
me for a second and we caused my nose to
bleed and me to spout gibberish and I'm sorry, are
there in spirit? Yeah? I've also brought some clean x
is into the studio in case we have something like
that happened again. So was the loss of Hitler largely
(04:26):
a symbolic problem, some historians have asked? And you can
find exhaustive and we do mean exhaustive biographies of Adolph
Hitler and and analyzes of the right in World War
Two all over the place. If you'd like to learn
more about his life. We can recommend a couple of
places to find some excellent info. Yeah. One particularly good
(04:50):
one is Hitler The Terminal Biography by d. Harlan Wilson,
also episode thirty seven of the World War Two podcast.
The Beginning of a multi episode series on Hitler by
Ray Harris jr. Um is another good one, and for
a particularly refreshing dive of the deep variety into not
just Hitler but the Nazi Party at large in general
(05:11):
and more. Check out our peer podcast stuff you miss
in history class, which I produce great folks, great folks.
So I feel like we're kind of burying the lead here, guys.
It's for twenty It's April twenty today, which not only
is a day for celebrations of people offneable persuasions namphetamine
(05:32):
thing right, No, uh, it's also Hitler's birthday. And you know, seriously, yeah,
yeah's birthday. I didn't know that. Oh, or it would yeah,
I guess if he was still alive, he would have
celebrated the anniversary of his birth, yes, which you know,
(05:53):
I we we did not plan this. It was not
something that we're going to do. We're usually record our
pod casts yesterday on Wednesday, and it is Thursday. However,
we are not talking about his life, nor for the
record or wishing him a happy birthday. It's just weird
how the world works. Our story starts again, as we said,
(06:16):
on the day of his death. So let's look at
the official story. The room where it happened, The room
where it happened. That's a joke for you, Matt, Thanks buddy,
I appreciate that very much. Um it's a it's a
whole musical thing. Don't don't worry about Oh, it's the
(06:36):
it's the it's a Hamilton's thing references. I don't, I don't.
I only know the I'm not gonna but shot. Yes. Um,
So we're going back to the bunker. This is where
Hitler and several of his closest associates spent pretty much
the last stretch of the war, especially Hitler, who was
(06:59):
just there ensconced. I love that word ben uh in
the funeral bunker, which is and it was an air
raid shelter in Berlin. We talked about it being resistant
somewhat at least two shelling and other large bombs. It
was called the fuer Bunker. Yes, yes, those Germans Man
they really have those like words that are just so
absurdly literal. That's the bunker of. And I love the
(07:22):
way that the German language. German speakers in the audience
you already you already know this, and I hope you
realize how much non German speakers appreciate and are mystified
by this propensity in German or practice, I should say,
to make a word by just smashing all these other
words together you know it's it's startling to me and
(07:43):
I stand in awe of your enunciation. And uh, much
like thirty three Thomas Street, this bunker was meant to
contain everything you need to survive for quite a while,
especially airborne attacks, chemical weapons. Even however, if a an
atomic bomb was dropped on this thing, it wouldn't have
(08:04):
fared so well probably yeah, well, of course this wasn't
designed to because what's an atom bomb? Right, It wasn't
designed a big giant thing that nuclear material wipes out
populations drops on. I also used to do hip hop
tracks with the guy who called himself Adam Bomb, but
(08:24):
he spelled it yeah a d A related to Adam amp.
You know, I never we We were mostly colleagues. They
had different last Uh So, the Fewer Bunker was part
of a larger Right Chancellory bunker, and it was composed
of two parts. There's the Vore Bunker or Forward Bunker,
(08:45):
and that was completed in nineteen thirty six. The Fewer Bunker,
the Hitler Clubhouse for lack of a more respectful term,
was completed in nineteen forty four. It was about eight
feet lower in the ground, which which becomes important in
just a second when we were talking about the five
star stuff. So this complex was originally only intended to
(09:05):
be a temporary air raid shelter because during a lot
of his career, Adolf Hitler didn't spend that much time
actually in Berlin. However, is the situation in Germany worsened.
By January of nine, it became Hitler's primary residence, and
(09:26):
it was not a great place because it was below
the water table, so it's always kind of damp. If
you want to see a really, really really well done
dramatization of this period in Hitler's life, check out the
movie Downfall. You may know it if you haven't seen
it by the same meme clip where it's this part
where I think Hitler's generals or whatever are telling him
(09:48):
that basically all is lost and then nothing can be done,
and he's got this map and he just kind of
like freaks out and gives them all a really intense
dressing down. And there are just all these amazing versions
where they changed the subtitles to be about can you
remember particular one was about backwards compatibility on video games,
maybe one about like Apple removing the headphone jack or
(10:08):
something like that. Stuff like that. It's like they basically
very gently tell him this news and he sort of
twitches for a little bit and then just kind of
just lose it and pounds on the table. But anyway,
I digress. That's that's a great film that very much
describes visually the period that we're talking about here. Recommended highly. Yeah,
the situation Noel described and Downfall from a visual perspective
(10:28):
is pretty much spot on. They had to run pumps
continuously to remove groundwater. They had electricity provided by a
diesel generator. They used well water for the supplies. They
did have in the beginning, communications equipment and a tele
X telephone switchboard, army radio set. I would imagine they
had to go dark though after a while, or there
(10:49):
was no one to communicate with. Yeah, as conditions deteriorated. Uh,
they ended up receiving much of the war news from
British broadcast radio BBC broadcast and then via courier towards
the end, where someone would hear something from the BBC
and then like run across the garden and knock on
the door. And and as Matt mentioned, uh, people it
(11:14):
wasn't just Hitler in here, right, There were other people. Yeah,
there are all kinds of officials, other staff that lived
at the larger complex itself. Aside from Hitler, there were
occupants in the bunker like itself at one time or another.
So you're talking about Goring, Herman, Goring, Heinrich, Hmmler, the
I don't know what you call them, some of the
main players in the Nazi party, his like posse, his
(11:37):
inner circle, his care That's exactly what it is. And
of course Hitler's longtime partner Eva Braun. As you can imagine,
the psychic energy in the bunker was pretty desperate at times,
super intense, like we were saying in Downfall, kind of
showing that feeling. Um and more and more occupants left
(12:00):
as conditions got worse and worse and worse. Surrounding them
as forces, Allied forces, Russian forces, Um, they're all kind
of squeezing in towards the bunker itself. Yeah, let's talk
about outside the bunker because it's just as important to
our story today as what occurred inside. So by early
(12:21):
Germany's military was on the verge of complete and total collapse.
The Nazis felt that the battle for Berlin would be
the final battle of the war in Europe, so around
thousand soldiers of Germany's Army Group B were surrounded and
captured on the eighteenth of April, leaving the path completely
open for American occupation of Berlin. American forces to reach
(12:46):
and invade Berlin um by April eleven, the Americans crossed
the Elba sixty two miles to the west of Berlin,
and then by the sixteenth Soviet forces to the east
crossed the Odor and commenced the battle for the Silo Heights,
which was the last major defensive line protecting Berlin on
that particular side, And by the nineteenth of April, the
(13:10):
German forces were in full retreat from Cielo Heights, so
this means there was no front line. Berlin was bombarded
by Soviet artillery for the first time on his birthday,
Hitler's birthday of April. On the one Hitler ordered an
(13:31):
s S general named Felix Steiner Uh to take his
detachment and moved to rescue Berlin. But by the evening
of the same day, Soviet tanks reached the outskirts of
the city. That is a strong SS name general name
Felix Steiner just just very imposing sounding yes, absolutely So
(13:51):
the next day, the twenty two, Hitler learned that stein
Steiner had not obeyed his order and for the first
time this this really calls back to that moment in
Downfall he declared that the war was lost. This is
when he consulted his doctor, Dr verna Has on the
most reliable method of suicide, and the doctor told him
(14:12):
that he should use both a cyanide pill and a
bullet self administered in that order. Right, yeah, And and
this is when Hitler's paranoia really starts to ramp up
to the highest levels that has been um because you know,
I I can only imagine that being at that top level,
(14:33):
you have some thoughts about the people around you that
can border on crazy maybe, And he was really feeling
that the people closest to him were traders and he
didn't trust anybody. Well, can you imagine two going from
being the head Han show that can do whatever he wants,
get whatever he wants, order whatever he wants to be
(14:56):
done to whomever he chooses. Two living in an underground
subterranean cube, you know, with your closest friend these I guess,
And can you imagine the paranoia that would set in
and just the isolation that would set in, not to
mention if you're geeked up out of your mind on amphetamines,
when your major generals just just disobeyed your order outright
(15:19):
categorically did not do his job. So here's the Here
are a couple of examples. When Herman Goring learned about
this suicide conversation Hitler had had with his doctor, he
sent a telegram Jadolf Hitler and asked for permission to
take over the leadership of the Reich, and he he had.
Goring felt he had precedents because in ninety one Hitler
(15:40):
had named Goring his successor. So Hitler's secretary, a guy
named Martin Borman, convinced his boss that Goring was planning
a coup. In response, Hitler told Goring he would be
executed unless he resigned, and then he sacked Goring from
all of his offices, ordered his arrest. And then he
(16:02):
learned through the BBC that Heinrich Hmmler had offered to
surrender to the Western Allies. Can you imagine, So all
of these you know, thoughts that he's having are in
some ways coming true. Right. The The offer, by the way,
was declined by the allies. Himmler apparently had implied to
the Allies that he had the authority to negotiate a surrender,
(16:24):
and Hitler considered this treason. He was beyond furious. He
ordered Himmler's arrest. Was he furious? That was worth it?
That was worth it? He was? He was furious. Uh.
He not only ordered Himmler's arrest, but Himmler had a
representative from the s S who was at the bunker,
(16:45):
and Hitler had him executed. Talk about blaming the messenger
the representative. So by the seven April, as we said,
Berlin was cut off from the rest of Germany. On
April twenty nine, Hitler married Eva Braun and upon learning
the fate of his ally Benito Mussolini, whose body was
desecrated after his execution, was he dragged behind like a
(17:08):
carriage of some sort? Yeah, I believe. So he requested
the Sinai capsules from his doctor, remarking that he would
not be made a spectacle. Side note. Side note here, um,
just to give a little insight into the character of
the dictator he need. He wanted to make sure the
(17:29):
capsule worked, so he ordered his doctor has to use
one on his own. Dog Blondie. You know he at
least it wasn't like his daughter or something, right, but
it didn't make an apologies for Hitler. It did work.
The dog died and Hitler was satisfied. He went to bed,
which brings us to the day of On April, General
(17:54):
Wilhelm Kitl reported that all forces that could have rescued
Berlin had either been in circle or forced onto the defensive.
Soviet forces were less than six feet from this half
star bunker, and then the commander of the Berlin Defense
area told Hitler that the forces that remained would run
out of ammunition that night and the fighting would eventually
(18:18):
come to an end less than twenty four hours from then.
So imagine the scene. Hitler, two of his secretaries, and
his personal cook had lunch, after which he and Eva
said farewell, two members of the staff and the other
occupants at the time that included Boorman, Joseph Garrible's, his family,
the secretary's military officers. Around two thirty, Adolph and Ava
(18:40):
went into Hitler's personal study. Witnesses later reported hearing a gunshot.
About an hour later, at three thirty, Hitler's valet, a
guy named heinz Ling, have Bourman in his side. They
opened the door, Ling smelt burnt almonds, which are a
common observation made in the presence of prussic acid, which
(19:02):
is the liquid form of hydrogen cyanide, and another official
entered the study and found lifeless bodies on the sofa.
Evan Braun was to Hitler's left, slumped away from him.
People stated that Hitler sat sunken over blood dripping out
of his right temple and that he had shot himself
with his own pistol, a walthor PPK. According to heinz
(19:23):
ling Eva's body had no physical wounds that were visible,
and it looked like from her face that she died
of cyanide poisoning. His bodyguard, Rochus Miche, was one of
the first people to see the dictator's corpse, and he
also ended up being one of the last two living
people left at the bunker. He fled the bunker and
(19:47):
May the second only hours before the Soviet army seized it.
He met up with other soldiers. They traveled north through
the u Bon tunnels. They were taking prisoner when the
Soviets caught them. He was brought to a prison in
Moscow called Lubyanka, where he was tortured in an attempt
to extract information regarding what happened to Hitler, because you see, Stalin,
(20:07):
Joseph Stalin was extremely interested in learning more about Hitler's
fate and theories about as possible escape. And because of this,
roches Mish spent eight years and forced labor camps. His
account largely confirms the official narrative. But that's just one
guy's account, right, and it leads and a lot of people,
(20:32):
you know, still don't believe the story. But why we'll
answer that after a word from our sponsor. Here's where
it gets crazy. Almost immediately after the news of Hitler's death,
(20:55):
conspiracy theories proliferate. It we're talking the same month, We're
the same couple of weeks. Like wildfire, they spread. This
view is overwhelmingly dismissed in the public sphere and in academia,
but they are tantalizing little nuggets of of information. They
continued to be strewn about and emerged, casting doubt on
(21:17):
the official story. Here is one example. Um a secret
memo from FBI Director j Edgar Hoover declared that quote
American Army officials in Germany have not located Hitler's body,
nor is there any reliable source that will say definitely
that Hitler is dead. At the Potsdam conference, US President
(21:38):
Harry S. Truman s Stalin of Hitler died, and Stalin
said nope. I'm kidding. He didn't actually say nope, but
he said no. And the thing is that Soviet intelligence
often changed their official stance on Hitler's fate, and because
of this ambiguity, they created a large amount of uncertainty
for decades afterwards. There are also a number of FBI
(22:00):
documents that came out. You can find them at the
vault dot FBI dot gov. You may have heard of
this before, um and these documents are alleged sightings of
Hitler that happened after his supposed death. Usually he's wearing
like a Hawaiian shirt and a little fedora and like
like like glasses with the nose and the mustache attached.
Those are yeah, those are more recent, and he has
(22:22):
that T shirt that says definitely not yeah yeah, yeah, yeah,
always at the arrow pointing out. But these documents they
range from from you know, all the way to the
seventies and then later, but most of them are accounts
of someone calling in or making contact with the FBI
or some other agency and saying, I'm I know where
(22:44):
Hitler is. He's here in Argentina, or he's here and
then Puerto Rico or in these other places. Um, And
it's just a recording of someone saying that they have
that information, and we need to put in a brief
word about this sort of stuff. So one problem that
law enforcement across the planet runs into repeatedly is the
(23:06):
idea of someone seen a random person and thinking that
they're definitely you know, the Zodiac Killer, the son of
Sam tupacor perfect example. And the problem with that is
in many cases, not only can these not be verified,
but often not maybe not the majority of the time,
but often there are people who are just reporting it
(23:27):
because they kind of want attention, not to mention if
you have an actual like man hunt since you situation
Like I recently watched the O J. Simpson dramatization Non
von FX with Cuba Gooding Jr. And there was a
part where when o J was on the run and
the Bronco people kept calling like saying I saw I
definitely see o J. And it was just clogging up
(23:48):
the lines to the point where like the person that
actually had information couldn't even get through because people like
you say, either are jerks and are just trying to
like prank people, or they just really want attention and
want to be like the guy that brought down Hitler. Yeah,
there's excitement right in thinking that it might be. And
so one of the reasons that the FBI did keep
(24:09):
track of this, although they did conclude that these accounts
or these reports cannot be verified, they had an interest
in keeping tracking this because of the situation with Hitler's body. Yes, okay,
according to the official story, what happened with Hitler's the
(24:29):
the Hitler's body, both Eva and Adolf, they were taken
from the bunker up to the surface. Um, and they
were set on fire. Yeah, created right per his wishes exactly,
And because he didn't want his body anything, He didn't
want anything to happen to his body after the Soviets
got there, and he didn't want to get the Mussolini treatment, right,
(24:51):
And because of that, because it was burned and may
have even been hit from the shelling, possibly once or
twice or however many times. There's no way to confirm
any of that. There were other bodies that were also cremated. There.
There was a whole stack of bodies that ended up
roughly in the location where the Hitlers were, where their
(25:12):
remains were, and it wasn't really known for quite a
while in the time frame after his their deaths and
after the remains were collected by the Soviets. So they're
all kinds of forensic issues here. And let's let's also
keep in mind that almost immediately after World War Two,
(25:36):
the uneasy alliance that existed between the Soviet forces and
I guess more of the West, right, like the European
allies in the US. Almost immediately this uneasy alliance began
to disintegrate. This was much more of an enemy of
my enemy as my friend kind of situation, right, what
(25:57):
about a friend of me of my friend of me
and then would take us back to the bunker. But yeah,
fret of me is a front of me is a
pretty accurate term for the interaction between these people. So
the Soviet government having control over a lot of this
stuff and already launching into a rivalry. And this is
not to put this geopolitical Cold war stuff all on
(26:20):
the Soviets end. There there were definitely aggressions on both
sides of this new world order. But another, as as
Null said, a nugget of information emerged recently and uh,
you know, decades later and set the Internet on fire
because the Soviet government, after multiple changes in their their
(26:45):
end of the official story and ambiguities and contradictions, allowed
a an archaeologist and bone specialist named Nick Bellotoni two
test the fragment of skull that the that were kept
in the Russian Federal Archives in Moscow and purportedly where
(27:07):
you know the remains of Hitler's skull that Nick Cage
was so pissed when he found that out. He was like,
I thought I had hitler skull in my collection. I'm
sure there were all several people who wrote strongly worded
letters to eBay. So the the thing that Dr bell
Atoni found out was that when he took samples of
(27:28):
the skull and gave them DNA testing, found that it
definitely wasn't Hitler unless Hitler was a woman below the
age of forty. It was it was a different skull.
I'm gonna say it was a different skull. I'm gonna
agree with you. Well, yeah, and it goes back to
(27:50):
that whole idea that there were a lot of body
strewn about in that area where they picked up you know,
where the Soviets picked up the remains for testing. Um,
you know, it was just gonna happen probably, And and
here's something interesting, Okay, Neither former Soviet nor current Russian
officials claimed that the skull was the main piece of
(28:13):
evidence proving it was Hitler, So we have to throw
some water on this one. Instead, they would cite these
jawbone fragments and two dental bridges that were found. And
these items were shown to Hugo Blashke, who was Hitler's dentist.
That's the thing about being a dictator, You have a
you have an entourage of people who just do one
thing for you, right. And so Hugo the dentist, and
(28:39):
his dental assistant UH, person named Kathy Hauserman UH and
then a longtime dental technician named Fritz Eckman all confirmed
that the dental remains, the bridge, the bridges belonged to
Hitler and Eva Broad and the skull fragment itself. And
this sometimes gets glossed over in the story is about
(29:00):
it's not Hitler's skull. The skull fragment was found a
year later in n when the Soviets were investigating rumors
of Hitler's survival. Because for a long time Stalin was
obsessed with this, and Stalin definitely had an obsessive personality.
So we can say that maybe that part of the
(29:21):
story of Hitler surviving or faking his death, maybe that
part of the story is a little sensationalized, but there
are still clear problems with the official narrative, and even
today Hitler would have been And if you want to
see X rays of Adolf Hitler's jaw and pictures of
(29:44):
a recreated version of the jaw bone when they were
doing testing to figure out if this truly was Hitler's jawbone,
UH searched the adontological identification of Adolf Hitler. There's an
entire document here that goes over everything, and in includes
images of everything we just talked about. Why do you
think Stalin had such a band his bondet about this
(30:05):
whole business. You think he just felt like out dictated.
That's an interesting question. He was definitely an obsessive man,
obsessive in terms of personality, perhaps two the level of
a mental disorder, but then there's also the very interesting
argument that one cannot be a dictator without some sort
(30:28):
of cognitive anomaly, right exactly. And also we can't forget
that he had access to information that did not exist
in any way whatsoever, not only in the public sphere
in the Soviet Union, but even in governmental levels in
(30:48):
the West. So he saw a lot of problems with
the official story. And as more and more of this
information emerged across the gulf of time and space, uh,
more and more people began to question whether Adolph Hitler
actually died and began asking what if? We're gonna ask
(31:15):
that question too after a little sponsor break, So what if? This,
Ladies and gentlemen, is the part of the show where
we explore some of the speculation regarding alternate narratives of
Hitler post World War Two. I'd be okay with that.
(31:38):
Fantastic I'm glad you're on board. So if if he
did somehow escape, where would he have gone? Earlier in
the show we mentioned Earlier in the show, we mentioned
one of Hitler's officials who said, look, the s is
about to hit the f and I don't mean San Francisco.
(31:58):
We're gonna run out of I mean nition in twenty
four hours that that official also requested for the en
time for Hitler to green light them attempting to make
a breakout, which would mean that he and the associates
and the remaining military would essentially go for a hail
Mary and just try to get through the Soviet encirclement
(32:21):
to reconvene with whatever existing forces they could find, because
there were tunnels that were fairly nearby that they could use.
There were some airports that possibly they could have accessed, right,
So that is one of the big questions. This brings
us to what we would call ratlines and paper clips.
(32:42):
You see, although the Allies reported that Hitler was indeed deceased, privately,
several factions within that coalition doubted the official story. Several
figures in Allied intelligence believed Hitler might have actually escaped,
and as mentioned before, the Russian leader Joseph Stalin was
Hitler had actually fled, and he told this to the Americans. So,
(33:04):
during a visit to the Hague shortly after the war,
the commander of the Allied forces, good Old Dwight Ike right, Ike, Yeah,
I like Ike, Dwight D. Eisenhower told reporters that there
was a quote reason to believe Hitler was still alive. Um.
The Russian account of what happened after they had seized
Hitler's one star bunker was confused and contradictory, and just
(33:28):
like bin Laden decades later, there was no body. What's
the what's the Latin? First? Show me the body, corpus,
you have the body? What about showing me the money?
Is there a Latin for that? Yes? Probably habeas de niro.
We will, we will doubtlessly find out. You can write
(33:50):
to us directly with the Latin translation of not only
show me the money, but your other favorite film catchphrases.
So yes. So there are rumors were circulating that both
Hitler and Brown at this time they're both Hitlers, had
been smuggled out of Germany, and they're reported signings of
the two coming from all over the world. The FBI
(34:12):
and the OSS, which you may know as the predecessor
to the CIA, they investigated a lot of these rumors,
and there are a lot of places that they may
have gone, according to these rumors. One of them is
South America. Yeah, and here's the thing. At the time,
this was not an absolutely bonkers concept. Although the public
was largely unaware of the situation. Multiple Nazi officials escaped
(34:35):
punishment after the war through several different means due to
the hundreds of thousands of German immigrants who lived in
the country. Argentina in particular maintains close ties with Germany
and remained neutral throughout much of World War Two. In
the years after the war, the president at the time
one Prone secretly ordered diplomats and intelligence officers to establish
(34:59):
a escape routes so called ratlines, through ports in Spain
and Italy, to smuggle thousands of former s S officers
and Nazi Party members out of Europe, and as many
as five thousand Nazis are thought to have relocated to Argentina.
One of the major ideas about how this may have happened,
(35:21):
how the Hitler's got out It comes. I'm pulling this
from Skeptoid, another podcast that covers a lot of these
kinds of things, and I would recommend you check it
out if you're interested. We're just gonna pull from here.
So on May eighth, the German Instrument of Surrender was signed.
So this is, you know, a couple of weeks after,
(35:43):
like a weekend, a couple of days after Hitler allegedly
committed suicide, officially ending the war. This yeah, officially ends
World War two, at least in Europe. And there were
remaining German German submarines and several other naval ships that
were out at sea at the time, and the submarines
in particular were ordered to jettison their ammunition, to operate
(36:06):
only on the surface, and to surrender essentially to any
U n port that they could. Now several several of
the submarines decided this maybe some kind of diversionary tactic.
Maybe the war isn't over. Maybe this is propaganda and
they're just trying to get us to, you know, surrender.
So one boat in particular, one submarine, a U boat
(36:29):
called U five thirty, it chose to kind of be
on its own for a while, almost two months. Where
it it took. It took a journey and if you
look at the skeptical way thing, it tells you all
about exactly where they went. And this is the ship
that allegedly dropped off Hitler, the Hitler's according to several stories.
(36:53):
Because of its route, it took past Argentina right and
ultimately it's surrendered to the Argentinian Navy. Isn't correct. Yes,
so the it also not only jettisoned a lot of
its equipment, but it's logs. Yeah, so these two missing
months are questionable as they exist in the statements that
(37:18):
their mouth gave to the Argentineans. So what's the what's
the fringe historian accounted this, Matt The account would be
that the Hitler's escaped through tunnels, got to an airport
that then took them over to the submarine. The submarine
then dropped them off in Argentina. And you know that
(37:40):
that's like the story, And there are allegedly a couple
of people that saw them. I saw some German officials
exiting this submarine. Um though you know, being able to
correctly identify which submarine it was. They're all kinds of
issues with that. And if you look at the official
story from the captain or I what, I don't know
what you call them, the person who was running the submarine,
(38:02):
the commander, uh, the logs their travel, his story of
the travel with those logs that they jettisoned makes sense
as far as how much fuel they used, how much
fuel they had on board and where like the route
that they took, which doesn't include dropping people off in
Argentina if you did the math right. So unless there
were some other fuel stop that remains secret, it would
(38:25):
be physically impossible even in to reduce some more economical
speed for U five thirty to make that trip. Yeah,
because of the long amount of time, they were traveling
extremely slowly deep in the water. So this idea, this
ratline stuff was not restricted to Argentina. Nor is it
(38:46):
a series of allegations. Let's be clear here. The only
allegation is that Adolph Hitler was among those who went
on these rat lines. Otherwise it's completely true, and it's
even and in some cases with the assistance of the Vatican,
various officials escaped. German prosecutors who examined secret files from
(39:07):
Brazil and Chile also discovered that as many as nine
thousand Nazi officers and collaborators from other countries escaped from
Europe to fine sanctuary in the South American nations. Brazil
took in between fifteen hundred and two thousand war criminals
of five hundred to a thousand settled in Chile. Here's
an interesting point, Perrone, and I'm so proud of the
(39:32):
three of us for getting this far without adult cry
for me, Argentina a Vita reference. What's that I'm not
following for this reindeer game? Definitely with Madonna, is it is?
And I didn't think it was that bad. Uh. Perrone
particularly wanted to recruit Nazis with military and technical expertise
(39:55):
because let's remember, these scientists were doing some top notch
rocketry work, because we've discussed in previous episodes. So they
were like rocket scientists and they were literally rocket scientists
brain surgeons. I don't know if they were brain surgeons.
But the guy who who invented the V two rocket
for you know, the Nazis also invented the center in
(40:16):
five rockets that went to the moon, right, remember him? Uh?
These Uh the thing that Prone wanted to do. The
reason he wanted these uh these scientists is because he
believed it could help Argentina's progress in these fields. Much
like the United States and the Soviet Union, despite the
(40:38):
public righteousness and pretends of pursuing justice, both the US
and the USS are scrambled like mad dogs to gain
possession of as many Nazi scientists as possible. Like roaches,
fleeing the blinding light of a forty watt bulb. Yeah,
like like people at a comic convention desperately clawing at
(40:58):
each other and trampling another when someone threw out a
copy of Action Comics number one or a two Leader
of Mountain Dew. I've seen that happen in person, or
you know, like two massive empires that want to control
the world and need every technical little bit of advantage
they can get. That is much more apt Matthew. Yes,
(41:19):
in the US, this was known as Operation paper Clip.
And if you'd like to learn more about it, who
friends and neighbors have we got a deal for you.
You can check out all of our past video and
audio episodes on that with a simple Internet search. However,
we would be remiss if we did not close on
one of the more let's say, controversial theories about the
(41:44):
ultimate alleged escape route of Adolph Hitler, and that is,
if we could have a drumroll please and Arctica. Yes,
Hitler went to join his ancient aryan underground brothers in Antarctica.
(42:09):
You mean polar bears. That's the original Arian nation. Polar
Bears are in the North Pole. These would be penguins.
Oh my bad, I get my poles confused. The the
the this ties into the earlier longstanding theory that in
factors in something called Operation High Jump. So we'll talk
(42:31):
about the less less out their version and then will
maybe end on the really really out their version. So
the less out there version is that the Allies and
the Axis powers were both exploring Antarctica as sort of
an insurance policy to make sure that they could control
all of the continents eventually, because we have to remember,
(42:52):
they are playing a huge live action game of risk,
and so the German side and the Axis side wanted
to create a land called New Schwapia, and you can
actually find this on some of the maps of the time.
The theory here is that a U boat that was
(43:13):
out of pocket or was maybe black ops the entire time,
ferried Hitler and some other officials to Antarctica, where they
began to plan for a third right version, to which
I guess technically would be a fourth Reich, but they
did not consult Matt Nolan I on the nomenclature. This
(43:39):
is widely not accepted by academia, but it goes further.
There's also a train of thought amongst people who believe
that the Nazi powers discovered, or were at least searching for,
as Matt said, an underground race of ancient arians who
(44:00):
made their own civilization in anywhere from a subterranean cave
system to a hollow earth. Penguins, penguins, just so uber penguins,
and that these uh, that these forces are responsible for
multiple UFO sightings in the subsequent decades. Now, that's fascinating.
(44:20):
Tell me more. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to make
light by saying they were penguins. I was just trying
to make up for not knowing where polar bears live.
I'm sorry. No, uh no, please please don't. Don't beat
yourself up here. The idea is the the idea is
that it's kind of a take off the concept we've
seen before that UFOs, often confused with extraterrestrials, are just
(44:41):
classified technology that most people aren't aware of. Right, So
the idea here would be that the Nazi Party or
the remnants of it, made it to Antarctica, but also
managed to preserve some of the secret technology they have
been researching. So might this enter into like the sort
of trope sort of James Bondi trope of like secret
(45:03):
underground ice layers with death rays and things like that. Oh,
absolutely absolutely. At this point, you know, we do have
to say that it doesn't seem from what we've encountered,
it doesn't seem likely that Antarctica ended up being the
final resting place of Hitler. We do know for sure
(45:27):
that South America ended up being the final resting place
for several members of that same political party. However, we
do have to ask are all these stories. Is all
this conjecture based on the fact simply that this is
one of the most infamous people in history, or are
(45:49):
the holes in the official narrative, which you know, indisputably exists,
even just in the manner of his death in Berlin?
Are these are these holes purposeful propaganda efforts by the
Soviet intelligence? Or is there something more to the story?
Did Adolph Hitler die by his own hand on April nineteen?
(46:14):
In my opinion, it's all about a lack of closure.
You have this ancient evil figure that at the Allies
and the Soviets are all seeing as like this is
the guy, we we win if this guy is dead
and you you know, allegedly he's dead, but you can't
prove it right, you don't have a body, you don't
(46:35):
have a thing to show in the newspaper, like here
is Hitler's dead body. The evil is defeated. It's the
same thing with Osama bin Lawton. That's I mean, it's
why when you have that boogeyman, the only way to
get closure is to know for certain that he, you
know it, is dead. Well, it's it's sort of a
fascination maybe obsession we have with that kind of closure
(46:58):
where you know, so many people really depend on a
funeral where there's a body and a casket that you
can say that was my people, and now it's he's gone,
and we, you know, do a thing and say goodbye. Honestly,
it's like the antithesis of that in a way, but
with that same lynch pin of like proof, like we
need to show everyone needs to assemble and see this,
(47:20):
accept it, and then we can move on. If you
don't have that, there are many that would maybe always
look at what we're talking about, there's still a positive jecture.
You know, speculation runs wild when you don't have that
kind of proof, and we see that all the time
with the stories. We can Let's add another aspect here,
which is a little bit disturbing from a psychological perspective,
(47:43):
but I believe absolutely real and for the more crucial
to these considerations, and it is the following. So the
official reasoning of the US government in the assassination of
Osama bin Laden and the burial at sea, to believe
is the phrasing they used was that they did not
(48:03):
want a grave site because they did not want to
encourage martyrdom and they did not want to encourage you know, uh,
attacks or events around that. So would the reasoning be
that if there were a a grave for Hitler or
a known place of death, that this would become a
(48:24):
rallying point for people who shared those views, or even
a site of constant uh, what's the word defacements, you know,
a site of constant um vandalism or destruction by you know,
people that hated this man and that had real pain
and suffering cause to their families in their life and
(48:45):
their family and generations for generations to continue to go
back to that place as a you know, I don't know,
I'm not saying that people always are going to resort
to violence or lashing out, but that's a pretty big one,
you know, and and historically, uh, people will do resort
to violence. No, I know, I know, I like to
think the best of people, I guess, but I really
(49:05):
do agree that having a site like that could cause problems,
could even cause clashes between the current supporters of some
of that ideology and people whose lives and families were
torn apart by you know what he did? Where the
hell do you put it? You know, space? Antarcticum, that's
(49:26):
a good place. An Arctica is so isolated, it's like
diet space. I'm sorry, I did it again, I said Antarctica, Arctica,
the Arctic. You know. Well, speaking of thinking the best
of people, we want to thank you for checking out
the show and we want to hear your opinions. How
(49:47):
familiar are you with this concept? I think a lot
of people are familiar with Hitler escape theories due to
U some of the search for Hitler shows that have
played on cable television. And what's your take? Is this
something to ask some sand to it? If there is
something that the official narrative has misled the public on,
(50:11):
what is it and why did they do it? Because,
as we've seen in the course of this show, there
are multiple opportunities. Again, I know I'm primarily hitting on
Soviet intelligence here, but there are multiple times where the
story didn't add up, but not in a way that
conclusively proves or disproves rather the official narrative. So write
(50:35):
to us, let us know your thoughts. And while we're
talking about the best part of the show, which is you,
that reminds me it's time for shout at corners. That's right,
it's shout out corner at the time, and every show
where we shout out to you are beloved listeners. The
first shout out today goes to Noir Guitar Super on Instagram.
(51:00):
Uh Nore Guitar Super says, I'd love a shout out
scooche cool, thank you. I don't know what. I just
said that randomly one day and it's just it's caught fire.
I totally stole it from Bob's Burgers too. I am
such a fraud. Um, so I'd love a shout out
if possible. I shouldn't say that I didn't really on
the Bob's Burgers. It's schedooch. I made it an sh sounds,
(51:21):
so that's not exactly stealing it. Um. It was lifted
with good intentioned. It was inspired by yes um so
I'd love a shout out if possible topic suggestion from
No Air Guitar Super. Have you ever heard of that
Mexican drug dealer who practiced black magic, did all sorts
(51:41):
of wacky stuff, also a serial killer, Adolpho Constanzo. It
gets crazy from the word go emoji. Yeah. I put
emoji in parentheses because when I read the comment, I
wasn't sure which emoji he meant, so I just wrote
emoji and for a disease that was my bad. Well,
(52:01):
I'm just gonna insert a unicorn. Fantastic uh And that's
a That's a great topic idea more Guitar Super because
Adolphin Constanzo is someone that we had looked at a
little bit in the past but never done a show on.
This is a Cuban American serial killer, drug dealer, and
cult leader of a gang called the Narcos Satanist or
(52:24):
Lost Narcos Satanicos Uh. His cult members nicknamed him El Padrino.
What what he did was he was participating in in
the narco trade, but he began to believe that these
magic spells that he was practicing, many of which he
he lifted and and sort of twisted from belief system
(52:47):
called Polo Maombe were responsible for the success of these
cartels that he worked with, and he started killing people.
He had beef with some of the cartels when he said,
you know, you all your success to my dark magic
and they said, now you know, hey, man like we
like cocaine too, but being kind of crazy. Uh. And
(53:09):
then seven members of this powerful cartel h disappeared and
they turned up with body parts missing. Come to find
this guy would put body parts in a cauldron and
participate in cannibalistic black magic. I would love to look
into this guy further in a future episode. And by
the way, now our guitar super while you're waiting, if
(53:31):
you haven't done it yet, check out our episode on
Narco Saints and check out our interview with Bob Maser
of the infiltrator Um. The film with Brian Cranston was
based on this guy, Bob Maser, who was an undercover
operative UM and he basically infiltrated the Narco trade that
(53:54):
we were talking about. And there's some really interesting stories
about Santa Ria and about encounters with some of these
type of folks. So that's another another that's a really
good call. Thank you super Guitar for an extremely disturbing
topic that I look forward to looking into. The next
one comes from Clayton. Clayton says, Hello, guys. I found
it amusing that when I started playing the latest episode
(54:16):
of a podcast about conspiracies and I found it begin
with an ad for a store opening near me? Do
they know? Have they found me? Are they near? Who
are they? I just thought it was funny given the
premise of the show. Well, we think it's funny too,
and that's why we were doing it. We think it's hilarious.
(54:37):
We're just playing a joke on you. They're not real ads,
don't even worry about it. We're just they're little easter
eggs that we hope you find, Clayton, And there's one
in this too, so I hope you noticed. I have
a little topic suggestion that I'd like to throw in,
just thinking about some of the stuff we just talked
about Jim Jones. Have we done anything on Jim Jones.
(54:58):
We've done video, done video, but we should do a podcast.
Because there's a new book that just came out written
by the Peabody Award winning author Jeff Gwynn called Jim
Jones The Road to Jonestown. That's not actually called Jim
Jones the Road, just called the Road to Jonestown. But
he did a fabulous interview on NPR with Terry Gross
(55:18):
the other week, and there's actually audio tape of the
you know, drinking the kool A the flavor ad. I
guess it was. Yeah, yeah, that was some pretty uh,
pretty blood curdling stuff. But there's a lot of stuff
I didn't know about him in his history, and I
think it might be worth exploring, And like the fact
that some of his early work was very humanitarian for
(55:40):
lack of a better term, and much more in the
social justice kind of vain and only after he sort
of went down his own rabbit hole and drank his
own kool aid and intelligence exactly. That's true too, But
I think I don't know, i'd like to do that.
That's just that's a personal shout out to to myself.
I can't check right now if we've done an audio
podcast on it, but I'm pretty sure we did early
early on. We may have. We may have that The
(56:03):
relationship between intelligence communities and religious leaders is endlessly fascinating.
I actually lost sleep earlier this week when I was
reading back again on mary not Maryland. Man, it's a
different guy, Charles Manson and uh Paul Crockett, the scientologist
miner who saved Tex Watson. So we've got one more
(56:26):
shout out here, and it comes to us from from
Tyler via email. Tyler says, hey, y'all, big fans, show
you help me get through many a long drive. Had
a couple of show ideas. First, after this election, all
the accusations voting fraud, I'd love to hear about the
history of rigged elections. When was the first recorded fixed vote?
When was the last fixed vote? Maybe some famous rigged elections.
(56:47):
We can definitely look at the third one, Tyler, finding
the first one's gonna be tough. Well, some people might
also say, show us an example of a non rigged election. Also,
I think that an episode about the d s M,
says ty would be fascinating. Its history is a tool
for social control. The inherent prejudice and the influence of
big pharm on diagnoses make this a topic. I think
(57:08):
you guys love Thanks, stay awesome, And he sent us
a follow up message he said, just realized that I
forgot to say. I'm a mental health professional who has
worked in the field for more than fifteen years, and
I teach mental health diagnostics in a local graduate school.
So my love hate relationship with the d s M
is not just a flash in the pan. If you'd
like to contact me, just respond to this email. Perhaps
(57:30):
we could chat on the phone. Yes, I just listened
to that episode, so thank you so much to Tyler
Noir Guitar super Clayton, and to you Mr brown Man Chucks.
I think it's I think these are all fantastic ideas done.
(57:55):
He is self skaed douche. And this concludes, but not
the end of our show. Matt Noel and I are
going to be returning next week, and stay tuned because
we have some big news on the way to you.
In the meantime, if you'd like to check out some
(58:17):
of the stories that, for one reason or another haven't
made it to air yet, find us on Facebook and Twitter,
where we are conspiracy stuff. If you'd like to see
various images that we think are worth looking at, you
can also find us on Instagram. And if you don't
care about any of that stuff and you just want
to reach out the old fashioned way. You can type
a little old email and shoot that thing off into
(58:40):
the internet rabbit hole to conspiracy at how stuff works
dot com.
From UFOs to psychic power. Since government conspiracies, history is
riddled with unexplained events, you can turn back now or
learn the stuff they don't want you to know. Welcome
(00:22):
back to the show. My name is Matt. My name
isn't all they call me Ben? You are you that
makes this stuff they don't want you to know? We're
back right in the studio. Yeah, we're back in the studio.
We returned from our sojourn to Brooklyn. You can hear
that episode the live when we did in full on
our website. Stuff they don't want you to know dot
(00:45):
com or wherever you find podcasts, especially Apple podcasts. Yes,
especially Apple podcast hit that hot new rebrand and uh
we had a heck of a time doing it. We
hope to do more live shows in the future. So
as a side note, if you would like us to
come to your town, let us know so we can
(01:08):
show our bosses that they should send us on a
field trip. Offer us up a couch to crash on.
We would be very much appreciative of that kind of gesture.
And or a five star hotel whatever you If you
happen to be a big wig and you are five
star hotels you know, six of you got them under
I think four and a half is the best I've
(01:29):
ever done. Well, I can't disclose a lot of my
travel circumstances. I like to keep that underground. And what
we're talking about today, speaking of overly labored segues uh
concerns one of the most famous allegations of underground travel
(01:50):
in modern history. This is a story about a titular
incident in World War Two in April Night King, when
the Fura of Germany a k a. Adolf Hitler died.
For decades since, this single event has remained one of
the most discussed moments of the entire war. He died
(02:13):
in a bunker, right, Yes, it was a five star bunker,
he probably, Actually it was, Yeah, And we have some
of the we have some of the architecture about Actually,
you know what I'm remembering, and we'll get to this
later in the episode. It wasn't that great a five
star not. I don't think it was a Michelin. I
don't think that Michelin started facilities. As far as food goes,
(02:36):
it was it was generally spoiler alert, an unpleasant place,
but mostly secure from shelling. Yeah. Well, in theory, the
death of Hitler signaled a tremendous blow to the right,
and even today, historians continue to debate about the nature
and degree of this blow because there's this big question.
(02:58):
Was Hitler at this point genuinely a good tactician or
had he become increasingly unhinged interrrational due to drug use.
And now we're talking about like emphetamans. He was hopped
up on goofballs. Yeah, and at the time, you know,
in World War Two we hear a lot about use
(03:19):
of methamphetamines, perhaps by Hitler or Saxis powers. But as
we examined in our previous episodes on drug use in
the military, amphetamines were something that everybody was interested in,
you know. And thank you, by the way to everybody
who wrote in in the listener mail episode that you
(03:41):
Nolan you Met did where we actually had a caller
uh call in and talk about drugs in the military.
And if you haven't listened to that episode, please check
it out. It was tremendously education. It's very kind bend.
It was not a bad effort for for us being
without our our compatriot. Oh I was. I was listening
(04:03):
to it on a plane and I think there were
there were some pretty funny moments that kind of creeped
out the ladies sitting next to me. But you know,
you made a nice appearance where you sort of possessed
me for a second and we caused my nose to
bleed and me to spout gibberish and I'm sorry, are
there in spirit? Yeah? I've also brought some clean x
is into the studio in case we have something like
that happened again. So was the loss of Hitler largely
(04:26):
a symbolic problem, some historians have asked? And you can
find exhaustive and we do mean exhaustive biographies of Adolph
Hitler and and analyzes of the right in World War
Two all over the place. If you'd like to learn
more about his life. We can recommend a couple of
places to find some excellent info. Yeah. One particularly good
(04:50):
one is Hitler The Terminal Biography by d. Harlan Wilson,
also episode thirty seven of the World War Two podcast.
The Beginning of a multi episode series on Hitler by
Ray Harris jr. Um is another good one, and for
a particularly refreshing dive of the deep variety into not
just Hitler but the Nazi Party at large in general
(05:11):
and more. Check out our peer podcast stuff you miss
in history class, which I produce great folks, great folks.
So I feel like we're kind of burying the lead here, guys.
It's for twenty It's April twenty today, which not only
is a day for celebrations of people offneable persuasions namphetamine
(05:32):
thing right, No, uh, it's also Hitler's birthday. And you know, seriously, yeah,
yeah's birthday. I didn't know that. Oh, or it would yeah,
I guess if he was still alive, he would have
celebrated the anniversary of his birth, yes, which you know,
(05:53):
I we we did not plan this. It was not
something that we're going to do. We're usually record our
pod casts yesterday on Wednesday, and it is Thursday. However,
we are not talking about his life, nor for the
record or wishing him a happy birthday. It's just weird
how the world works. Our story starts again, as we said,
(06:16):
on the day of his death. So let's look at
the official story. The room where it happened, The room
where it happened. That's a joke for you, Matt, Thanks buddy,
I appreciate that very much. Um it's a it's a
whole musical thing. Don't don't worry about Oh, it's the
(06:36):
it's the it's a Hamilton's thing references. I don't, I don't.
I only know the I'm not gonna but shot. Yes. Um,
So we're going back to the bunker. This is where
Hitler and several of his closest associates spent pretty much
the last stretch of the war, especially Hitler, who was
(06:59):
just there ensconced. I love that word ben uh in
the funeral bunker, which is and it was an air
raid shelter in Berlin. We talked about it being resistant
somewhat at least two shelling and other large bombs. It
was called the fuer Bunker. Yes, yes, those Germans Man
they really have those like words that are just so
absurdly literal. That's the bunker of. And I love the
(07:22):
way that the German language. German speakers in the audience
you already you already know this, and I hope you
realize how much non German speakers appreciate and are mystified
by this propensity in German or practice, I should say,
to make a word by just smashing all these other
words together you know it's it's startling to me and
(07:43):
I stand in awe of your enunciation. And uh, much
like thirty three Thomas Street, this bunker was meant to
contain everything you need to survive for quite a while,
especially airborne attacks, chemical weapons. Even however, if a an
atomic bomb was dropped on this thing, it wouldn't have
(08:04):
fared so well probably yeah, well, of course this wasn't
designed to because what's an atom bomb? Right, It wasn't
designed a big giant thing that nuclear material wipes out
populations drops on. I also used to do hip hop
tracks with the guy who called himself Adam Bomb, but
(08:24):
he spelled it yeah a d A related to Adam amp.
You know, I never we We were mostly colleagues. They
had different last Uh So, the Fewer Bunker was part
of a larger Right Chancellory bunker, and it was composed
of two parts. There's the Vore Bunker or Forward Bunker,
(08:45):
and that was completed in nineteen thirty six. The Fewer Bunker,
the Hitler Clubhouse for lack of a more respectful term,
was completed in nineteen forty four. It was about eight
feet lower in the ground, which which becomes important in
just a second when we were talking about the five
star stuff. So this complex was originally only intended to
(09:05):
be a temporary air raid shelter because during a lot
of his career, Adolf Hitler didn't spend that much time
actually in Berlin. However, is the situation in Germany worsened.
By January of nine, it became Hitler's primary residence, and
(09:26):
it was not a great place because it was below
the water table, so it's always kind of damp. If
you want to see a really, really really well done
dramatization of this period in Hitler's life, check out the
movie Downfall. You may know it if you haven't seen
it by the same meme clip where it's this part
where I think Hitler's generals or whatever are telling him
(09:48):
that basically all is lost and then nothing can be done,
and he's got this map and he just kind of
like freaks out and gives them all a really intense
dressing down. And there are just all these amazing versions
where they changed the subtitles to be about can you
remember particular one was about backwards compatibility on video games,
maybe one about like Apple removing the headphone jack or
(10:08):
something like that. Stuff like that. It's like they basically
very gently tell him this news and he sort of
twitches for a little bit and then just kind of
just lose it and pounds on the table. But anyway,
I digress. That's that's a great film that very much
describes visually the period that we're talking about here. Recommended highly. Yeah,
the situation Noel described and Downfall from a visual perspective
(10:28):
is pretty much spot on. They had to run pumps
continuously to remove groundwater. They had electricity provided by a
diesel generator. They used well water for the supplies. They
did have in the beginning, communications equipment and a tele
X telephone switchboard, army radio set. I would imagine they
had to go dark though after a while, or there
(10:49):
was no one to communicate with. Yeah, as conditions deteriorated. Uh,
they ended up receiving much of the war news from
British broadcast radio BBC broadcast and then via courier towards
the end, where someone would hear something from the BBC
and then like run across the garden and knock on
the door. And and as Matt mentioned, uh, people it
(11:14):
wasn't just Hitler in here, right, There were other people. Yeah,
there are all kinds of officials, other staff that lived
at the larger complex itself. Aside from Hitler, there were
occupants in the bunker like itself at one time or another.
So you're talking about Goring, Herman, Goring, Heinrich, Hmmler, the
I don't know what you call them, some of the
main players in the Nazi party, his like posse, his
(11:37):
inner circle, his care That's exactly what it is. And
of course Hitler's longtime partner Eva Braun. As you can imagine,
the psychic energy in the bunker was pretty desperate at times,
super intense, like we were saying in Downfall, kind of
showing that feeling. Um and more and more occupants left
(12:00):
as conditions got worse and worse and worse. Surrounding them
as forces, Allied forces, Russian forces, Um, they're all kind
of squeezing in towards the bunker itself. Yeah, let's talk
about outside the bunker because it's just as important to
our story today as what occurred inside. So by early
(12:21):
Germany's military was on the verge of complete and total collapse.
The Nazis felt that the battle for Berlin would be
the final battle of the war in Europe, so around
thousand soldiers of Germany's Army Group B were surrounded and
captured on the eighteenth of April, leaving the path completely
open for American occupation of Berlin. American forces to reach
(12:46):
and invade Berlin um by April eleven, the Americans crossed
the Elba sixty two miles to the west of Berlin,
and then by the sixteenth Soviet forces to the east
crossed the Odor and commenced the battle for the Silo Heights,
which was the last major defensive line protecting Berlin on
that particular side, And by the nineteenth of April, the
(13:10):
German forces were in full retreat from Cielo Heights, so
this means there was no front line. Berlin was bombarded
by Soviet artillery for the first time on his birthday,
Hitler's birthday of April. On the one Hitler ordered an
(13:31):
s S general named Felix Steiner Uh to take his
detachment and moved to rescue Berlin. But by the evening
of the same day, Soviet tanks reached the outskirts of
the city. That is a strong SS name general name
Felix Steiner just just very imposing sounding yes, absolutely So
(13:51):
the next day, the twenty two, Hitler learned that stein
Steiner had not obeyed his order and for the first
time this this really calls back to that moment in
Downfall he declared that the war was lost. This is
when he consulted his doctor, Dr verna Has on the
most reliable method of suicide, and the doctor told him
(14:12):
that he should use both a cyanide pill and a
bullet self administered in that order. Right, yeah, And and
this is when Hitler's paranoia really starts to ramp up
to the highest levels that has been um because you know,
I I can only imagine that being at that top level,
(14:33):
you have some thoughts about the people around you that
can border on crazy maybe, And he was really feeling
that the people closest to him were traders and he
didn't trust anybody. Well, can you imagine two going from
being the head Han show that can do whatever he wants,
get whatever he wants, order whatever he wants to be
(14:56):
done to whomever he chooses. Two living in an underground
subterranean cube, you know, with your closest friend these I guess,
And can you imagine the paranoia that would set in
and just the isolation that would set in, not to
mention if you're geeked up out of your mind on amphetamines,
when your major generals just just disobeyed your order outright
(15:19):
categorically did not do his job. So here's the Here
are a couple of examples. When Herman Goring learned about
this suicide conversation Hitler had had with his doctor, he
sent a telegram Jadolf Hitler and asked for permission to
take over the leadership of the Reich, and he he had.
Goring felt he had precedents because in ninety one Hitler
(15:40):
had named Goring his successor. So Hitler's secretary, a guy
named Martin Borman, convinced his boss that Goring was planning
a coup. In response, Hitler told Goring he would be
executed unless he resigned, and then he sacked Goring from
all of his offices, ordered his arrest. And then he
(16:02):
learned through the BBC that Heinrich Hmmler had offered to
surrender to the Western Allies. Can you imagine, So all
of these you know, thoughts that he's having are in
some ways coming true. Right. The The offer, by the way,
was declined by the allies. Himmler apparently had implied to
the Allies that he had the authority to negotiate a surrender,
(16:24):
and Hitler considered this treason. He was beyond furious. He
ordered Himmler's arrest. Was he furious? That was worth it?
That was worth it? He was? He was furious. Uh.
He not only ordered Himmler's arrest, but Himmler had a
representative from the s S who was at the bunker,
(16:45):
and Hitler had him executed. Talk about blaming the messenger
the representative. So by the seven April, as we said,
Berlin was cut off from the rest of Germany. On
April twenty nine, Hitler married Eva Braun and upon learning
the fate of his ally Benito Mussolini, whose body was
desecrated after his execution, was he dragged behind like a
(17:08):
carriage of some sort? Yeah, I believe. So he requested
the Sinai capsules from his doctor, remarking that he would
not be made a spectacle. Side note. Side note here, um,
just to give a little insight into the character of
the dictator he need. He wanted to make sure the
(17:29):
capsule worked, so he ordered his doctor has to use
one on his own. Dog Blondie. You know he at
least it wasn't like his daughter or something, right, but
it didn't make an apologies for Hitler. It did work.
The dog died and Hitler was satisfied. He went to bed,
which brings us to the day of On April, General
(17:54):
Wilhelm Kitl reported that all forces that could have rescued
Berlin had either been in circle or forced onto the defensive.
Soviet forces were less than six feet from this half
star bunker, and then the commander of the Berlin Defense
area told Hitler that the forces that remained would run
out of ammunition that night and the fighting would eventually
(18:18):
come to an end less than twenty four hours from then.
So imagine the scene. Hitler, two of his secretaries, and
his personal cook had lunch, after which he and Eva
said farewell, two members of the staff and the other
occupants at the time that included Boorman, Joseph Garrible's, his family,
the secretary's military officers. Around two thirty, Adolph and Ava
(18:40):
went into Hitler's personal study. Witnesses later reported hearing a gunshot.
About an hour later, at three thirty, Hitler's valet, a
guy named heinz Ling, have Bourman in his side. They
opened the door, Ling smelt burnt almonds, which are a
common observation made in the presence of prussic acid, which
(19:02):
is the liquid form of hydrogen cyanide, and another official
entered the study and found lifeless bodies on the sofa.
Evan Braun was to Hitler's left, slumped away from him.
People stated that Hitler sat sunken over blood dripping out
of his right temple and that he had shot himself
with his own pistol, a walthor PPK. According to heinz
(19:23):
ling Eva's body had no physical wounds that were visible,
and it looked like from her face that she died
of cyanide poisoning. His bodyguard, Rochus Miche, was one of
the first people to see the dictator's corpse, and he
also ended up being one of the last two living
people left at the bunker. He fled the bunker and
(19:47):
May the second only hours before the Soviet army seized it.
He met up with other soldiers. They traveled north through
the u Bon tunnels. They were taking prisoner when the
Soviets caught them. He was brought to a prison in
Moscow called Lubyanka, where he was tortured in an attempt
to extract information regarding what happened to Hitler, because you see, Stalin,
(20:07):
Joseph Stalin was extremely interested in learning more about Hitler's
fate and theories about as possible escape. And because of this,
roches Mish spent eight years and forced labor camps. His
account largely confirms the official narrative. But that's just one
guy's account, right, and it leads and a lot of people,
(20:32):
you know, still don't believe the story. But why we'll
answer that after a word from our sponsor. Here's where
it gets crazy. Almost immediately after the news of Hitler's death,
(20:55):
conspiracy theories proliferate. It we're talking the same month, We're
the same couple of weeks. Like wildfire, they spread. This
view is overwhelmingly dismissed in the public sphere and in academia,
but they are tantalizing little nuggets of of information. They
continued to be strewn about and emerged, casting doubt on
(21:17):
the official story. Here is one example. Um a secret
memo from FBI Director j Edgar Hoover declared that quote
American Army officials in Germany have not located Hitler's body,
nor is there any reliable source that will say definitely
that Hitler is dead. At the Potsdam conference, US President
(21:38):
Harry S. Truman s Stalin of Hitler died, and Stalin
said nope. I'm kidding. He didn't actually say nope, but
he said no. And the thing is that Soviet intelligence
often changed their official stance on Hitler's fate, and because
of this ambiguity, they created a large amount of uncertainty
for decades afterwards. There are also a number of FBI
(22:00):
documents that came out. You can find them at the
vault dot FBI dot gov. You may have heard of
this before, um and these documents are alleged sightings of
Hitler that happened after his supposed death. Usually he's wearing
like a Hawaiian shirt and a little fedora and like
like like glasses with the nose and the mustache attached.
Those are yeah, those are more recent, and he has
(22:22):
that T shirt that says definitely not yeah yeah, yeah, yeah,
always at the arrow pointing out. But these documents they
range from from you know, all the way to the
seventies and then later, but most of them are accounts
of someone calling in or making contact with the FBI
or some other agency and saying, I'm I know where
(22:44):
Hitler is. He's here in Argentina, or he's here and
then Puerto Rico or in these other places. Um, And
it's just a recording of someone saying that they have
that information, and we need to put in a brief
word about this sort of stuff. So one problem that
law enforcement across the planet runs into repeatedly is the
(23:06):
idea of someone seen a random person and thinking that
they're definitely you know, the Zodiac Killer, the son of
Sam tupacor perfect example. And the problem with that is
in many cases, not only can these not be verified,
but often not maybe not the majority of the time,
but often there are people who are just reporting it
(23:27):
because they kind of want attention, not to mention if
you have an actual like man hunt since you situation
Like I recently watched the O J. Simpson dramatization Non
von FX with Cuba Gooding Jr. And there was a
part where when o J was on the run and
the Bronco people kept calling like saying I saw I
definitely see o J. And it was just clogging up
(23:48):
the lines to the point where like the person that
actually had information couldn't even get through because people like
you say, either are jerks and are just trying to
like prank people, or they just really want attention and
want to be like the guy that brought down Hitler. Yeah,
there's excitement right in thinking that it might be. And
so one of the reasons that the FBI did keep
(24:09):
track of this, although they did conclude that these accounts
or these reports cannot be verified, they had an interest
in keeping tracking this because of the situation with Hitler's body. Yes, okay,
according to the official story, what happened with Hitler's the
(24:29):
the Hitler's body, both Eva and Adolf, they were taken
from the bunker up to the surface. Um, and they
were set on fire. Yeah, created right per his wishes exactly,
And because he didn't want his body anything, He didn't
want anything to happen to his body after the Soviets
got there, and he didn't want to get the Mussolini treatment, right,
(24:51):
And because of that, because it was burned and may
have even been hit from the shelling, possibly once or
twice or however many times. There's no way to confirm
any of that. There were other bodies that were also cremated. There.
There was a whole stack of bodies that ended up
roughly in the location where the Hitlers were, where their
(25:12):
remains were, and it wasn't really known for quite a
while in the time frame after his their deaths and
after the remains were collected by the Soviets. So they're
all kinds of forensic issues here. And let's let's also
keep in mind that almost immediately after World War Two,
(25:36):
the uneasy alliance that existed between the Soviet forces and
I guess more of the West, right, like the European
allies in the US. Almost immediately this uneasy alliance began
to disintegrate. This was much more of an enemy of
my enemy as my friend kind of situation, right, what
(25:57):
about a friend of me of my friend of me
and then would take us back to the bunker. But yeah,
fret of me is a front of me is a
pretty accurate term for the interaction between these people. So
the Soviet government having control over a lot of this
stuff and already launching into a rivalry. And this is
not to put this geopolitical Cold war stuff all on
(26:20):
the Soviets end. There there were definitely aggressions on both
sides of this new world order. But another, as as
Null said, a nugget of information emerged recently and uh,
you know, decades later and set the Internet on fire
because the Soviet government, after multiple changes in their their
(26:45):
end of the official story and ambiguities and contradictions, allowed
a an archaeologist and bone specialist named Nick Bellotoni two
test the fragment of skull that the that were kept
in the Russian Federal Archives in Moscow and purportedly where
(27:07):
you know the remains of Hitler's skull that Nick Cage
was so pissed when he found that out. He was like,
I thought I had hitler skull in my collection. I'm
sure there were all several people who wrote strongly worded
letters to eBay. So the the thing that Dr bell
Atoni found out was that when he took samples of
(27:28):
the skull and gave them DNA testing, found that it
definitely wasn't Hitler unless Hitler was a woman below the
age of forty. It was it was a different skull.
I'm gonna say it was a different skull. I'm gonna
agree with you. Well, yeah, and it goes back to
(27:50):
that whole idea that there were a lot of body
strewn about in that area where they picked up you know,
where the Soviets picked up the remains for testing. Um,
you know, it was just gonna happen probably, And and
here's something interesting, Okay, Neither former Soviet nor current Russian
officials claimed that the skull was the main piece of
(28:13):
evidence proving it was Hitler, So we have to throw
some water on this one. Instead, they would cite these
jawbone fragments and two dental bridges that were found. And
these items were shown to Hugo Blashke, who was Hitler's dentist.
That's the thing about being a dictator, You have a
you have an entourage of people who just do one
thing for you, right. And so Hugo the dentist, and
(28:39):
his dental assistant UH, person named Kathy Hauserman UH and
then a longtime dental technician named Fritz Eckman all confirmed
that the dental remains, the bridge, the bridges belonged to
Hitler and Eva Broad and the skull fragment itself. And
this sometimes gets glossed over in the story is about
(29:00):
it's not Hitler's skull. The skull fragment was found a
year later in n when the Soviets were investigating rumors
of Hitler's survival. Because for a long time Stalin was
obsessed with this, and Stalin definitely had an obsessive personality.
So we can say that maybe that part of the
(29:21):
story of Hitler surviving or faking his death, maybe that
part of the story is a little sensationalized, but there
are still clear problems with the official narrative, and even
today Hitler would have been And if you want to
see X rays of Adolf Hitler's jaw and pictures of
(29:44):
a recreated version of the jaw bone when they were
doing testing to figure out if this truly was Hitler's jawbone,
UH searched the adontological identification of Adolf Hitler. There's an
entire document here that goes over everything, and in includes
images of everything we just talked about. Why do you
think Stalin had such a band his bondet about this
(30:05):
whole business. You think he just felt like out dictated.
That's an interesting question. He was definitely an obsessive man,
obsessive in terms of personality, perhaps two the level of
a mental disorder, but then there's also the very interesting
argument that one cannot be a dictator without some sort
(30:28):
of cognitive anomaly, right exactly. And also we can't forget
that he had access to information that did not exist
in any way whatsoever, not only in the public sphere
in the Soviet Union, but even in governmental levels in
(30:48):
the West. So he saw a lot of problems with
the official story. And as more and more of this
information emerged across the gulf of time and space, uh,
more and more people began to question whether Adolph Hitler
actually died and began asking what if? We're gonna ask
(31:15):
that question too after a little sponsor break, So what if? This,
Ladies and gentlemen, is the part of the show where
we explore some of the speculation regarding alternate narratives of
Hitler post World War Two. I'd be okay with that.
(31:38):
Fantastic I'm glad you're on board. So if if he
did somehow escape, where would he have gone? Earlier in
the show we mentioned Earlier in the show, we mentioned
one of Hitler's officials who said, look, the s is
about to hit the f and I don't mean San Francisco.
(31:58):
We're gonna run out of I mean nition in twenty
four hours that that official also requested for the en
time for Hitler to green light them attempting to make
a breakout, which would mean that he and the associates
and the remaining military would essentially go for a hail
Mary and just try to get through the Soviet encirclement
(32:21):
to reconvene with whatever existing forces they could find, because
there were tunnels that were fairly nearby that they could use.
There were some airports that possibly they could have accessed, right,
So that is one of the big questions. This brings
us to what we would call ratlines and paper clips.
(32:42):
You see, although the Allies reported that Hitler was indeed deceased, privately,
several factions within that coalition doubted the official story. Several
figures in Allied intelligence believed Hitler might have actually escaped,
and as mentioned before, the Russian leader Joseph Stalin was
Hitler had actually fled, and he told this to the Americans. So,
(33:04):
during a visit to the Hague shortly after the war,
the commander of the Allied forces, good Old Dwight Ike right, Ike, Yeah,
I like Ike, Dwight D. Eisenhower told reporters that there
was a quote reason to believe Hitler was still alive. Um.
The Russian account of what happened after they had seized
Hitler's one star bunker was confused and contradictory, and just
(33:28):
like bin Laden decades later, there was no body. What's
the what's the Latin? First? Show me the body, corpus,
you have the body? What about showing me the money?
Is there a Latin for that? Yes? Probably habeas de niro.
We will, we will doubtlessly find out. You can write
(33:50):
to us directly with the Latin translation of not only
show me the money, but your other favorite film catchphrases.
So yes. So there are rumors were circulating that both
Hitler and Brown at this time they're both Hitlers, had
been smuggled out of Germany, and they're reported signings of
the two coming from all over the world. The FBI
(34:12):
and the OSS, which you may know as the predecessor
to the CIA, they investigated a lot of these rumors,
and there are a lot of places that they may
have gone, according to these rumors. One of them is
South America. Yeah, and here's the thing. At the time,
this was not an absolutely bonkers concept. Although the public
was largely unaware of the situation. Multiple Nazi officials escaped
(34:35):
punishment after the war through several different means due to
the hundreds of thousands of German immigrants who lived in
the country. Argentina in particular maintains close ties with Germany
and remained neutral throughout much of World War Two. In
the years after the war, the president at the time
one Prone secretly ordered diplomats and intelligence officers to establish
(34:59):
a escape routes so called ratlines, through ports in Spain
and Italy, to smuggle thousands of former s S officers
and Nazi Party members out of Europe, and as many
as five thousand Nazis are thought to have relocated to Argentina.
One of the major ideas about how this may have happened,
(35:21):
how the Hitler's got out It comes. I'm pulling this
from Skeptoid, another podcast that covers a lot of these
kinds of things, and I would recommend you check it
out if you're interested. We're just gonna pull from here.
So on May eighth, the German Instrument of Surrender was signed.
So this is, you know, a couple of weeks after,
(35:43):
like a weekend, a couple of days after Hitler allegedly
committed suicide, officially ending the war. This yeah, officially ends
World War two, at least in Europe. And there were
remaining German German submarines and several other naval ships that
were out at sea at the time, and the submarines
in particular were ordered to jettison their ammunition, to operate
(36:06):
only on the surface, and to surrender essentially to any
U n port that they could. Now several several of
the submarines decided this maybe some kind of diversionary tactic.
Maybe the war isn't over. Maybe this is propaganda and
they're just trying to get us to, you know, surrender.
So one boat in particular, one submarine, a U boat
(36:29):
called U five thirty, it chose to kind of be
on its own for a while, almost two months. Where
it it took. It took a journey and if you
look at the skeptical way thing, it tells you all
about exactly where they went. And this is the ship
that allegedly dropped off Hitler, the Hitler's according to several stories.
(36:53):
Because of its route, it took past Argentina right and
ultimately it's surrendered to the Argentinian Navy. Isn't correct. Yes,
so the it also not only jettisoned a lot of
its equipment, but it's logs. Yeah, so these two missing
months are questionable as they exist in the statements that
(37:18):
their mouth gave to the Argentineans. So what's the what's
the fringe historian accounted this, Matt The account would be
that the Hitler's escaped through tunnels, got to an airport
that then took them over to the submarine. The submarine
then dropped them off in Argentina. And you know that
(37:40):
that's like the story, And there are allegedly a couple
of people that saw them. I saw some German officials
exiting this submarine. Um though you know, being able to
correctly identify which submarine it was. They're all kinds of
issues with that. And if you look at the official
story from the captain or I what, I don't know
what you call them, the person who was running the submarine,
(38:02):
the commander, uh, the logs their travel, his story of
the travel with those logs that they jettisoned makes sense
as far as how much fuel they used, how much
fuel they had on board and where like the route
that they took, which doesn't include dropping people off in
Argentina if you did the math right. So unless there
were some other fuel stop that remains secret, it would
(38:25):
be physically impossible even in to reduce some more economical
speed for U five thirty to make that trip. Yeah,
because of the long amount of time, they were traveling
extremely slowly deep in the water. So this idea, this
ratline stuff was not restricted to Argentina. Nor is it
(38:46):
a series of allegations. Let's be clear here. The only
allegation is that Adolph Hitler was among those who went
on these rat lines. Otherwise it's completely true, and it's
even and in some cases with the assistance of the Vatican,
various officials escaped. German prosecutors who examined secret files from
(39:07):
Brazil and Chile also discovered that as many as nine
thousand Nazi officers and collaborators from other countries escaped from
Europe to fine sanctuary in the South American nations. Brazil
took in between fifteen hundred and two thousand war criminals
of five hundred to a thousand settled in Chile. Here's
an interesting point, Perrone, and I'm so proud of the
(39:32):
three of us for getting this far without adult cry
for me, Argentina a Vita reference. What's that I'm not
following for this reindeer game? Definitely with Madonna, is it is?
And I didn't think it was that bad. Uh. Perrone
particularly wanted to recruit Nazis with military and technical expertise
(39:55):
because let's remember, these scientists were doing some top notch
rocketry work, because we've discussed in previous episodes. So they
were like rocket scientists and they were literally rocket scientists
brain surgeons. I don't know if they were brain surgeons.
But the guy who who invented the V two rocket
for you know, the Nazis also invented the center in
(40:16):
five rockets that went to the moon, right, remember him? Uh?
These Uh the thing that Prone wanted to do. The
reason he wanted these uh these scientists is because he
believed it could help Argentina's progress in these fields. Much
like the United States and the Soviet Union, despite the
(40:38):
public righteousness and pretends of pursuing justice, both the US
and the USS are scrambled like mad dogs to gain
possession of as many Nazi scientists as possible. Like roaches,
fleeing the blinding light of a forty watt bulb. Yeah,
like like people at a comic convention desperately clawing at
(40:58):
each other and trampling another when someone threw out a
copy of Action Comics number one or a two Leader
of Mountain Dew. I've seen that happen in person, or
you know, like two massive empires that want to control
the world and need every technical little bit of advantage
they can get. That is much more apt Matthew. Yes,
(41:19):
in the US, this was known as Operation paper Clip.
And if you'd like to learn more about it, who
friends and neighbors have we got a deal for you.
You can check out all of our past video and
audio episodes on that with a simple Internet search. However,
we would be remiss if we did not close on
one of the more let's say, controversial theories about the
(41:44):
ultimate alleged escape route of Adolph Hitler, and that is,
if we could have a drumroll please and Arctica. Yes,
Hitler went to join his ancient aryan underground brothers in Antarctica.
(42:09):
You mean polar bears. That's the original Arian nation. Polar
Bears are in the North Pole. These would be penguins.
Oh my bad, I get my poles confused. The the
the this ties into the earlier longstanding theory that in
factors in something called Operation High Jump. So we'll talk
(42:31):
about the less less out their version and then will
maybe end on the really really out their version. So
the less out there version is that the Allies and
the Axis powers were both exploring Antarctica as sort of
an insurance policy to make sure that they could control
all of the continents eventually, because we have to remember,
(42:52):
they are playing a huge live action game of risk,
and so the German side and the Axis side wanted
to create a land called New Schwapia, and you can
actually find this on some of the maps of the time.
The theory here is that a U boat that was
(43:13):
out of pocket or was maybe black ops the entire time,
ferried Hitler and some other officials to Antarctica, where they
began to plan for a third right version, to which
I guess technically would be a fourth Reich, but they
did not consult Matt Nolan I on the nomenclature. This
(43:39):
is widely not accepted by academia, but it goes further.
There's also a train of thought amongst people who believe
that the Nazi powers discovered, or were at least searching for,
as Matt said, an underground race of ancient arians who
(44:00):
made their own civilization in anywhere from a subterranean cave
system to a hollow earth. Penguins, penguins, just so uber penguins,
and that these uh, that these forces are responsible for
multiple UFO sightings in the subsequent decades. Now, that's fascinating.
(44:20):
Tell me more. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to make
light by saying they were penguins. I was just trying
to make up for not knowing where polar bears live.
I'm sorry. No, uh no, please please don't. Don't beat
yourself up here. The idea is the the idea is
that it's kind of a take off the concept we've
seen before that UFOs, often confused with extraterrestrials, are just
(44:41):
classified technology that most people aren't aware of. Right, So
the idea here would be that the Nazi Party or
the remnants of it, made it to Antarctica, but also
managed to preserve some of the secret technology they have
been researching. So might this enter into like the sort
of trope sort of James Bondi trope of like secret
(45:03):
underground ice layers with death rays and things like that. Oh,
absolutely absolutely. At this point, you know, we do have
to say that it doesn't seem from what we've encountered,
it doesn't seem likely that Antarctica ended up being the
final resting place of Hitler. We do know for sure
(45:27):
that South America ended up being the final resting place
for several members of that same political party. However, we
do have to ask are all these stories. Is all
this conjecture based on the fact simply that this is
one of the most infamous people in history, or are
(45:49):
the holes in the official narrative, which you know, indisputably exists,
even just in the manner of his death in Berlin?
Are these are these holes purposeful propaganda efforts by the
Soviet intelligence? Or is there something more to the story?
Did Adolph Hitler die by his own hand on April nineteen?
(46:14):
In my opinion, it's all about a lack of closure.
You have this ancient evil figure that at the Allies
and the Soviets are all seeing as like this is
the guy, we we win if this guy is dead
and you you know, allegedly he's dead, but you can't
prove it right, you don't have a body, you don't
(46:35):
have a thing to show in the newspaper, like here
is Hitler's dead body. The evil is defeated. It's the
same thing with Osama bin Lawton. That's I mean, it's
why when you have that boogeyman, the only way to
get closure is to know for certain that he, you
know it, is dead. Well, it's it's sort of a
fascination maybe obsession we have with that kind of closure
(46:58):
where you know, so many people really depend on a
funeral where there's a body and a casket that you
can say that was my people, and now it's he's gone,
and we, you know, do a thing and say goodbye. Honestly,
it's like the antithesis of that in a way, but
with that same lynch pin of like proof, like we
need to show everyone needs to assemble and see this,
(47:20):
accept it, and then we can move on. If you
don't have that, there are many that would maybe always
look at what we're talking about, there's still a positive jecture.
You know, speculation runs wild when you don't have that
kind of proof, and we see that all the time
with the stories. We can Let's add another aspect here,
which is a little bit disturbing from a psychological perspective,
(47:43):
but I believe absolutely real and for the more crucial
to these considerations, and it is the following. So the
official reasoning of the US government in the assassination of
Osama bin Laden and the burial at sea, to believe
is the phrasing they used was that they did not
(48:03):
want a grave site because they did not want to
encourage martyrdom and they did not want to encourage you know, uh,
attacks or events around that. So would the reasoning be
that if there were a a grave for Hitler or
a known place of death, that this would become a
(48:24):
rallying point for people who shared those views, or even
a site of constant uh, what's the word defacements, you know,
a site of constant um vandalism or destruction by you know,
people that hated this man and that had real pain
and suffering cause to their families in their life and
(48:45):
their family and generations for generations to continue to go
back to that place as a you know, I don't know,
I'm not saying that people always are going to resort
to violence or lashing out, but that's a pretty big one,
you know, and and historically, uh, people will do resort
to violence. No, I know, I know, I like to
think the best of people, I guess, but I really
(49:05):
do agree that having a site like that could cause problems,
could even cause clashes between the current supporters of some
of that ideology and people whose lives and families were
torn apart by you know what he did? Where the
hell do you put it? You know, space? Antarcticum, that's
(49:26):
a good place. An Arctica is so isolated, it's like
diet space. I'm sorry, I did it again, I said Antarctica, Arctica,
the Arctic. You know. Well, speaking of thinking the best
of people, we want to thank you for checking out
the show and we want to hear your opinions. How
(49:47):
familiar are you with this concept? I think a lot
of people are familiar with Hitler escape theories due to
U some of the search for Hitler shows that have
played on cable television. And what's your take? Is this
something to ask some sand to it? If there is
something that the official narrative has misled the public on,
(50:11):
what is it and why did they do it? Because,
as we've seen in the course of this show, there
are multiple opportunities. Again, I know I'm primarily hitting on
Soviet intelligence here, but there are multiple times where the
story didn't add up, but not in a way that
conclusively proves or disproves rather the official narrative. So write
(50:35):
to us, let us know your thoughts. And while we're
talking about the best part of the show, which is you,
that reminds me it's time for shout at corners. That's right,
it's shout out corner at the time, and every show
where we shout out to you are beloved listeners. The
first shout out today goes to Noir Guitar Super on Instagram.
(51:00):
Uh Nore Guitar Super says, I'd love a shout out
scooche cool, thank you. I don't know what. I just
said that randomly one day and it's just it's caught fire.
I totally stole it from Bob's Burgers too. I am
such a fraud. Um, so I'd love a shout out
if possible. I shouldn't say that I didn't really on
the Bob's Burgers. It's schedooch. I made it an sh sounds,
(51:21):
so that's not exactly stealing it. Um. It was lifted
with good intentioned. It was inspired by yes um so
I'd love a shout out if possible topic suggestion from
No Air Guitar Super. Have you ever heard of that
Mexican drug dealer who practiced black magic, did all sorts
(51:41):
of wacky stuff, also a serial killer, Adolpho Constanzo. It
gets crazy from the word go emoji. Yeah. I put
emoji in parentheses because when I read the comment, I
wasn't sure which emoji he meant, so I just wrote
emoji and for a disease that was my bad. Well,
(52:01):
I'm just gonna insert a unicorn. Fantastic uh And that's
a That's a great topic idea more Guitar Super because
Adolphin Constanzo is someone that we had looked at a
little bit in the past but never done a show on.
This is a Cuban American serial killer, drug dealer, and
cult leader of a gang called the Narcos Satanist or
(52:24):
Lost Narcos Satanicos Uh. His cult members nicknamed him El Padrino.
What what he did was he was participating in in
the narco trade, but he began to believe that these
magic spells that he was practicing, many of which he
he lifted and and sort of twisted from belief system
(52:47):
called Polo Maombe were responsible for the success of these
cartels that he worked with, and he started killing people.
He had beef with some of the cartels when he said,
you know, you all your success to my dark magic
and they said, now you know, hey, man like we
like cocaine too, but being kind of crazy. Uh. And
(53:09):
then seven members of this powerful cartel h disappeared and
they turned up with body parts missing. Come to find
this guy would put body parts in a cauldron and
participate in cannibalistic black magic. I would love to look
into this guy further in a future episode. And by
the way, now our guitar super while you're waiting, if
(53:31):
you haven't done it yet, check out our episode on
Narco Saints and check out our interview with Bob Maser
of the infiltrator Um. The film with Brian Cranston was
based on this guy, Bob Maser, who was an undercover
operative UM and he basically infiltrated the Narco trade that
(53:54):
we were talking about. And there's some really interesting stories
about Santa Ria and about encounters with some of these
type of folks. So that's another another that's a really
good call. Thank you super Guitar for an extremely disturbing
topic that I look forward to looking into. The next
one comes from Clayton. Clayton says, Hello, guys. I found
it amusing that when I started playing the latest episode
(54:16):
of a podcast about conspiracies and I found it begin
with an ad for a store opening near me? Do
they know? Have they found me? Are they near? Who
are they? I just thought it was funny given the
premise of the show. Well, we think it's funny too,
and that's why we were doing it. We think it's hilarious.
(54:37):
We're just playing a joke on you. They're not real ads,
don't even worry about it. We're just they're little easter
eggs that we hope you find, Clayton, And there's one
in this too, so I hope you noticed. I have
a little topic suggestion that I'd like to throw in,
just thinking about some of the stuff we just talked
about Jim Jones. Have we done anything on Jim Jones.
(54:58):
We've done video, done video, but we should do a podcast.
Because there's a new book that just came out written
by the Peabody Award winning author Jeff Gwynn called Jim
Jones The Road to Jonestown. That's not actually called Jim
Jones the Road, just called the Road to Jonestown. But
he did a fabulous interview on NPR with Terry Gross
(55:18):
the other week, and there's actually audio tape of the
you know, drinking the kool A the flavor ad. I
guess it was. Yeah, yeah, that was some pretty uh,
pretty blood curdling stuff. But there's a lot of stuff
I didn't know about him in his history, and I
think it might be worth exploring, And like the fact
that some of his early work was very humanitarian for
(55:40):
lack of a better term, and much more in the
social justice kind of vain and only after he sort
of went down his own rabbit hole and drank his
own kool aid and intelligence exactly. That's true too, But
I think I don't know, i'd like to do that.
That's just that's a personal shout out to to myself.
I can't check right now if we've done an audio
podcast on it, but I'm pretty sure we did early
early on. We may have. We may have that The
(56:03):
relationship between intelligence communities and religious leaders is endlessly fascinating.
I actually lost sleep earlier this week when I was
reading back again on mary not Maryland. Man, it's a
different guy, Charles Manson and uh Paul Crockett, the scientologist
miner who saved Tex Watson. So we've got one more
(56:26):
shout out here, and it comes to us from from
Tyler via email. Tyler says, hey, y'all, big fans, show
you help me get through many a long drive. Had
a couple of show ideas. First, after this election, all
the accusations voting fraud, I'd love to hear about the
history of rigged elections. When was the first recorded fixed vote?
When was the last fixed vote? Maybe some famous rigged elections.
(56:47):
We can definitely look at the third one, Tyler, finding
the first one's gonna be tough. Well, some people might
also say, show us an example of a non rigged election. Also,
I think that an episode about the d s M,
says ty would be fascinating. Its history is a tool
for social control. The inherent prejudice and the influence of
big pharm on diagnoses make this a topic. I think
(57:08):
you guys love Thanks, stay awesome, And he sent us
a follow up message he said, just realized that I
forgot to say. I'm a mental health professional who has
worked in the field for more than fifteen years, and
I teach mental health diagnostics in a local graduate school.
So my love hate relationship with the d s M
is not just a flash in the pan. If you'd
like to contact me, just respond to this email. Perhaps
(57:30):
we could chat on the phone. Yes, I just listened
to that episode, so thank you so much to Tyler
Noir Guitar super Clayton, and to you Mr brown Man Chucks.
I think it's I think these are all fantastic ideas done.
(57:55):
He is self skaed douche. And this concludes, but not
the end of our show. Matt Noel and I are
going to be returning next week, and stay tuned because
we have some big news on the way to you.
In the meantime, if you'd like to check out some
(58:17):
of the stories that, for one reason or another haven't
made it to air yet, find us on Facebook and Twitter,
where we are conspiracy stuff. If you'd like to see
various images that we think are worth looking at, you
can also find us on Instagram. And if you don't
care about any of that stuff and you just want
to reach out the old fashioned way. You can type
a little old email and shoot that thing off into
(58:40):
the internet rabbit hole to conspiracy at how stuff works
dot com.
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