The Invention of Aspirin

From its natural base substance, salicin, to the invention of its synthetic derivative form that we still use, the story of aspirin has its own controversy and conflict, including whether the proper chemist has been given credit for its invention. . 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production
of I Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hello, and welcome
to the podcast. I'm Holly Fry and I'm Tracy Wilson. UH.
For all of recorded history, Tracy, and certainly before history

(00:21):
is being recorded, humans have been experiencing pain of one
form or another. That might seem like we're leading into
a very dark place, but really we're talking about ways
that we've managed an alleviated pain, and today, of course,
we're also talking about fairly minor ones in this case. Um,
it's just as simple as like running to your local

(00:41):
drug store or supermarket or even big box store to
pick up non prescription pain relief easy peas. And we're
going to talk today about specifically one of the possible
pain relievers that you might reach for in such a circumstance,
which is aspirin, from its natural based substance salison to
the invention of its synthetic derivative form that still use.
The story of aspirin is longer than people might expect,

(01:04):
and it also has its own controversy and conflict. For example,
there is one man whose name always comes up and
is credited with inventing aspirin, and we're going to get
to him and whether he should get credit because there
have been some challenges to that. But first we need
to talk about the ancient history of the medicinal base
of this, as well as some of the other people
who figure into the development of our knowledge about the

(01:27):
workings of salicylic acid and its medicinal possibilities. Yeah, and
just to be super clear, we're not suggesting that like
every pain that a person could have can be solved
with a quickly little trip to the store to pick
but I got a headache, I'm going to run across
the street and get some Yes. Yeah, the general day

(01:48):
to day minor pains, the minor aches and pains, not
the more serious stuff. So salison is found in the
bark of the white willow tree and in winter green leaves,
as well as a number of other plant life in
various concentrations, and it can be converted pretty easily in
a lab or in the human body into salacelic acid.

(02:08):
And then this can get a little bit confusing because
sometimes the two seem to be used almost interchangeably. Yeah.
Even in in my research, there were moments where people
were talking about the history of this and they were
pretty casually tossing them back and forth. But that's not
exactly correct. Uh, And we'll talk about how even in

(02:30):
the medical community that's been a problem at various points
in time. UH. Salacelic acid is what's called beta hydroxy acid,
and you have probably heard of it before because it
is used to tout various skin cares all the time.
And that's because beta hydroxy acids are excellent exfoliance, and
unlike alpha hydroxy acids, which are also very good exfoliance,
beta hydroxy acids are also really good at reducing wrinkles

(02:53):
and improving overall skin texture, and they don't have the
same tendency to cause irritation that their alpha hydroxy counterparts do.
It is also anti fungal, anti infective, and it can
be used to remove and heal epidermal problems like calluses
and wartz. In addition to all of that, salaslic acid
can also help with pain, and that's something that humans

(03:13):
have known about for a very long time, although they
didn't have that name for it and didn't understand how
this pain relief was relating to salison. The first record
that we have of willow bark being used as a
pain remedy comes from Samaria four thousand years ago, and
in addition to relieving pain, it was also used to
treat inflammation and fever. And this knowledge of the extract

(03:35):
of willow bark as a medicinal compound did not stay
in Mesopotamia traveled the globe. In China, going back at
least two thousand years, willow was being used to treat
everything from the common cold to hemorrhages. Hippocrates documented the
idea of a team made from willow bark to tame
pain during childbirth right around the transition from the fifth

(03:56):
to the fourth century BC. Several hundred years later, and
other Greek physician Diascorites routinely took advantage of the anti
inflammatory properties of willow bark when treating his patients. Plenty
of the Elder and Galen also wrote about their uses
of the extract of willow bark, and then in the
seventeen sixties, Reverend Edmund Stone, who was a member of

(04:17):
the Royal Society in addition to being an Oxford Shure vicar,
conducted his own study of the potential medicinal properties of
willow bark based entirely on a hunch. As an asside,
you will also see him mentioned as Reverend Edward Stone.
Both show up. Don't be confused. In his own writing,
though he uses Edmund. But he wrote out his findings

(04:39):
in a letter to the Royal Society titled an Account
of the success of the Bark of the Willow in
the Cure of eg Use, which he wrote to the
Right Honorable George, Earl of Macclesfield, who was the Society's
president at the time. So in this account Stone made
it clear that he believed he had identified something really important,
and he wrote in the opening quote, among the many
useful discuss breaths which this age hath made, there are

(05:02):
very few which better deserve the attention of the public
than what I am going to lay before your lordship.
And Stone goes on to describe in this letter how
he accidentally tasted the willow bark of a tree and
he was kind of blown over by how bitter it was,
and he noticed that willows grew in the same places
that egg used. Were common ailments so a us or
intense episodes of fever or shivering. They've often been associated

(05:26):
with malaria, and Stone believed that quote, many natural maladies
carry their cures along with them, or that their remedies
lie not far from their cures. So he knew of
other bitter plants that had healing properties, including the Peruvian
chinchona tree, which also contains salison in its bark. So
he thought the bitter willow, growing so near to where

(05:48):
eggus were common might similarly offer a solution to the
fevers that he saw in his community. So Stone said
that he looked for information on the willow being used before.
He did not have access to the various accounts and
records that we mentioned, because all he could find was
the name of the tree and botany books that he consulted.
He found nothing about its pharmaceutical possibilities. This is a

(06:11):
way where we are very spoiled by the Internet and
search engines. Yes, I often think when we're talking about
historical scientists, mathematicians, philosophers, etcetera, like what would they do
at the command of information that we have at our
fingertips in our pockets. But so, Stone, not finding anything

(06:35):
himself on willow ever being used in this way, set
out to do some experimenting, and the Reverend Stone gathered
a pound of willow bark over the course of a summer,
and then he put it in a bag and he
hung this bag outside of a baker's oven for three months,
and while it sat there, it was exposed not to
direct heat but from the indirect heat of the stove
for this prolonged period of time, and over that time

(06:57):
the contents of the bag dried out and just crumbled
the powder. Once he had this powder, Stone started giving
it to people in very tiny amounts, at first just
twenty grains of the powder as a dose. So if
there was anything toxic in this substance, the negative impact
to his patients would hopefully be pretty minimal. As the
people he was treating for ague appeared to tolerate this

(07:19):
little dried powder, he started giving them additional doses, still
pretty small, every four hours, and then he carefully observed
the results, and his patients had some improvement, but none
of them were cured of their problems. But as they
still seem to have no negative reactions to this experimental treatment,
Stone increased the dose, noting quote I grew bolder with it,

(07:40):
and in a few days increase the dose to two scruples,
and the eggu was soon removed. So a scruple is
that initial dose. It's twenty grains, so Stone was basically
doubling the dosage. Stone continued on with his study for
five years, noting that over and over in fifty cases
his patients eggus were either cured or in a few

(08:00):
very severe cases, they were made much better. Stone's letter
goes on to talk about the trees themselves and how
abundant they are and how easy to access, and he
concluded with quote, I have no other motives for publishing
this valuable specific then that it may have a fair
and full trial in all its variety of circumstances and situations,
and that the world may reap the benefits accruing from it.

(08:22):
So coming up, we're going to talk about some of
the advances in chemistry that enabled scientists who more fully
understand why willow bark helped with pain and fever. But
first we are going to pause and have a little
sponsor break. So while Reverend Stone's work and his success

(08:44):
with patients came from using willow bark, he didn't really
understand the chemistry involved. He knew that it was the
bark or something in it, but that was it, and
it wasn't until the eighteen hundreds that significant strides were
made in isolating and identifying the naturally occurring agent that
had these beneficial properties. In the eighteen twenties and thirties,

(09:04):
there were a number of advancements in the scientific communities
understanding of what it was about willow tree bark and
other plants that offered pain relief and anti inflammatory properties
to patients, and every step was building on the work
of one that came before it. In eighteen twenty eight,
a professor of pharmacology and Munich named Johann Buchner made
a big breakthrough. He was able to extract and purify

(09:27):
the compound that was doing all of that good, and
he named it salison, that is based on the Latin
word for willow salax. In the following year, French pharmacist
Are LaRue built on Buchner's work. He was able to
isolate a pure crystalline form of salison in eighteen twenty nine.
In eighteen thirty eight, Raphael Peria, who was a chemist

(09:48):
from Italy, was able to produce salasilic acid in a lab.
He did this by resolving the chemical structure of salison
into a sugar and salasil alcohol and then oxidiz the
salsill alcohol to produce salasilic acid. The precise chemical structure
of salasil alcohol was identified by two German chemists at

(10:09):
Markburg University, ERMANN. Cloba and E. Lautman at the end
of the eighteen fifties, and over the next fifteen years
that teams were continued until they were able to develop
a process for industrial production of salasillic acid. The Hayden
Chemical Company in Germany started producing synthetic salacillic acid for
pain and fever in eighteen seventy four, making them the

(10:31):
first commercial producer. In the eighteen seventies, Thomas mclegan, the
medical superintendent at Dundee Royal Infirmary in Scotland, had a
lot of patients with rheumatism, and he noticed that there
were similarities between the symptoms of those patients and patients
with fevers that weren't related to rheumatism. The patients with
general fevers had often been successfully treated with Chinchona bark, which,

(10:55):
as we mentioned in the section on Reverend edmund Stone,
contains sal wison, and so mclegan decided to test the
bark extract salison out for himself, just as Stone had,
although obviously there was a little more knowledge about it
at this point. And in this case, the doctor first
tested the substance on himself, and he approached this as
a progressive test. So first he took five grains and

(11:18):
had no negative reaction, and then he took ten grains
which was similarly benign, and then he took thirty with
no quote inconvenience or discomfort, and at that point he
was convinced that salison was safe, so he next used
it to address a rheumatic patient with a fever, high
heart rate, and swollen and achy joints. This patient was
given twelve grains of salison at a time, repeating the

(11:41):
dose every three hours. After seven doses over the course
of a twenty four hour period, the patient's condition had improved.
The fever and heart rate were both reduced significantly, although
they were still slightly above normal. Two more days of
treatment reduced swelling and alleviated the patient's pain. After two
more years of trial with his patients, mclegan published his

(12:02):
results in The Lancet, and this article features eight case
studies of patients with varying degrees of rheumatism, and he wrote, quote,
the sudden arrest of the painful symptoms and the coincident
rapid fall of pulse and temperature followed so immediately on
the administration of the salason that it is impossible not
to attribute them to its use. Cases of acute rheumatism

(12:23):
do sometimes improve in the most unexpected manner, but I
never saw a case get well so quickly as those
of which I have given details above. Maclegan went on
to say that salison was the most effective treatment for rheumatism,
and also that its use, dosage, and effects should be
carefully documented. Interestingly, he believed that salasilic acid, which had

(12:44):
been isolated and was favored by some medical practitioners, was
not as effective or palatable a treatment as salison. Even
during this time, there was some confusion about whether the
terms salasin and salasilic acid were two separate things among
some members of the medical community. Yeah, I did see
a note in one article about mclegan that, uh, there

(13:06):
was a doctor that wrote him an apology note because
he got really mad that this guy kept confusing the
two terms. But this is what brings us to a
familiar name bear the firm Farban Fabric and Barm Friedrich
Bear and Company started as a die company, but in
the eight nineties the decision was made that the company
would turn its efforts to pharmaceuticals. And this might seem

(13:29):
like a weird gearshift to go from pigments to pharmaceuticals,
but both involved chemistry and this was a new and
growing field. And additionally, the company had a really good
name among consumers, and so it was able to leverage
that brand trust into these new ventures. So we've been
talking about how practitioners like the Reverend Stone were very
careful in dosage of salison and how in Stone's cases

(13:52):
in particular, he recorded no negative side effects, but that
is really not an accurate picture of the use of
oral salas like acid treatment. Over time, it can cause
significant issues with digestive health, including nausea, ulcers, vomiting. These
are all things that can come from using salsolic acid
as a medicine over time. Yeah, salason is more easily tolerated.

(14:16):
We're going to get into why in a minute. But
salasilic acid, once it's isolated, is a lot rougher on
the gastro intestinal tract, and this is what leads us
to the name that is most commonly associated with aspirin's origins,
and that is Felix Hoffman. And Hoffman, who was born
in eighteen sixty eight, initially pursued a career as a
pharmacist when he finished his education, but soon he realized

(14:39):
that he actually wanted to do some more in depth
science and become a chemist, and so he went back
to school In he finished his graduate work with honors,
and he joined Bear as a chemist in their newly
established pharmaceuticals division. In Hoffman added the acetal group H
three c O to salsilic acid. The result was a

(15:00):
setle salasilic acid, which would eventually come to be known
as aspirin. And this sounds like a really insightful experiment,
and you could say that it is, but really Hoffman
was a setulating a lot of different molecules to potentially
create patentable medicines. Bears early medicines uh fantacetin and tanning
were also developed using this same process in projects that

(15:21):
were run by other chemists. The origin for Hoffman's experiment
has a number of different stories to it. One version
is that his boss at Bear, Arthur Irun, had tested
him with figuring out a way to make salacilic acid
more tolerable. The other was that his father took salasilic
acid for his rheumatism and was experiencing the negative side

(15:42):
effects that come along with using it for a prolonged period.
So Hoffman was driven by a desire to help him.
There's another man involved in this named Einrich Dresser, and
he ran the pharmaceutical lab at Bear and it was
his responsibility to test Hoffman's new substance. And Dresser was
slow to work with a setle salasilic acid. He openly
said that he thought it had no value and moreover,

(16:03):
that it could be damaging to the heart. There was
another acetylated compound created by Hoffman around the same time,
which Dresser thought would be a lot more lucrative, and
that was heroin. Hoffman had created it when he ascetilated morphine,
but that was not patentable because it had been discovered
by another scientist twenty five years earlier. Bear sold heroin

(16:24):
as a pain reliever and a cough suppressant for years.
Many other companies did too. We don't don't want to
put that all on Bear. You have probably seen as a.
I'm presuming if you're a listener that you're a history fan,
you've probably seen like the old timey adverts for heroin
as like a magical cure. All. But after more than
a year of this aspirin compound being developed, Dresser, after

(16:47):
getting pressure from Arthur Eiken Groun, who also uh kind
of got some other people at Bear involved in the
cause to kind of push for this thing to get tested,
got back to Hoffman's aceetal salicilic acid and Reser first
tested it on himself and then he ran an animal study,
and next Bear ran tests in hospitals. Ike and Groon

(17:07):
started this more widespread trial of the new compound, offering
it to doctors to use with their patients, and the
results were as hoped, This new medication successfully treated patients,
particularly as a pain reliever. The full clinical trials were
published in early Bayer was quick to recognize the financial
potential of aspirin, and we will talk about its entry

(17:29):
into the market after we pause for another word from
a sponsor. The German patent application that Bear filed was
actually rejected to other chemists in Europe had created the
acetyl salicylic acid before Hoffman. Although those were in lab scenarios,

(17:50):
and even though they submitted patents, neither of those parties
had been able to create a stable version that could
go to market. But Bayer went ahead and fouled a
patent application in the US and that was accepted. It
was written by Felix Hoffman, and it begins quote, be
it known that I, Felix Hoffman, doctor of Philosophy, chemist,
as signer to the Farman Forbeacon of elber Field Company

(18:11):
of New York, residing at elber Field, Germany, have invented
a new and useful improvement in the manufacture or production
of aceetal salacilic acid. And Hoffman described his process in
detail in that patent paper, writing quote, in producing my
new compound, I can proceed as follows, without limiting myself
to the particulars. Given a mixture prepared from fifty parts

(18:32):
of salacillic acid and seventy five parts acetic anhydride is
heated for about two hours at about one fifty degrees
centigrade in a vessel provided with a reflux condenser. Thus
a clear liquid is obtained from which, on cooling, a
crystalline mass is separated, which is the acetal salacilic acid.
It is freed from the acetic and hydride by pressing

(18:53):
and then recrystallized from dry chloroform. The acid is thus
obtained in the shape of glittering white and needles melting
at about one thirty five degrees centigrade, which are easily
soluble in benzene alcohol, glacial acetic acid, and chloroform, but
difficultly soluble in cold water. On March six nine, aspirin

(19:14):
was registered as a trademark, named by the Beer Company.
The name takes the A from a seatle s p
I R from the genus of plants that are alternative
sources of salasin, which is spuria. The end suffix was
a popular one at the time in drug names, heroin
being another example. Yeah, they're at number if you look
at drugs being developed at the time. The end in

(19:35):
i am. The first aspirin that appeared in tablet form
rather than a powder was in nineteen hundred, although powder
aspirin continued to be offered, and these various options made
it incredibly easy for doctors to prescribe, and aspirin can
actually still only be acquired with a prescription. Up until
nineteen fifteen, even in dosages that we today would easily

(19:56):
be able to buy without one. In nine nineteen, Bayer
lost its exclusive civility right to use the name aspirin
through its US patent. As part of the reparations for
World War One, the company had to sell its US factories.
Sterling Incorporated bought the rights to olive Bear's US drug
properties for three million dollars. The name didn't stay trademarked

(20:16):
under Sterling, though, and it's been considered a generic term
in the US for decades and dozens of other countries.
Though it's still a trademarked name, Bear was able to
get the international trademark on the name back when it
bought it from Smith Climb Beacham for one billion dollars.
That large price tag was not only for the trademark
on the name Aspirin. That acquisition was rolled into a

(20:37):
larger deal that included other points and other drugs as well.
Smith Climb Beecham had bought out Sterling's worldwide rights, so
in countries where the trademark is still held, Aspirin was
once again under the Bear umbrella. Funny detail on all
of this was that exactly how Hoffman's work with salasilic
acid actually made the substance more tolerable to people, djusting

(20:57):
it was still a little fuzzy a Essentially, he transformed
it into a new molecule that one doesn't trigger issues
in the g I tract, and two is converted back
to salasilic acid by the body, so that the pain
and fever relief characteristics of it still apply. But that
whole process was not really understood until the nineteen seventies.
It was only after work in the second half of

(21:19):
the twentieth century that the potential benefits of aspirin related
to heart disease and stroke came to be known. Now,
how things actually played out at Bear related to the
discovery of aspirin have continued to be debated. We mentioned
when we first introduced that segment the two different stories
about how the experiments that led to the development of
aspirin actually began, but that is not the end of it.

(21:41):
In forty seven years after Hoffman's development of aspirin and
the Bear Lab, Arthur Eikenrin, while being held at theresians
Dot concentration camp because he was Jewish, wrote his version
of this story in this letter, which is in the
Bear Archives. He said that he was the one who
wanted to come up with a version of salasilic acid

(22:01):
that would diminish these negative gastro intestinal side effects. According
to his account, he wrote down all the instructions and
Hoffman carried them out without really understanding any of it.
Ike and Grun also published this account in nineteen forty nine,
three years after Hoffman's death, he published that in the
German periodical Pharmacy. In the nineteen nineties, Walter Sneader, pharmaceutical

(22:23):
historian and deputy head of the Department of Pharmaceutical Sciences
at the University of Strathclyde, Glasgow, took up the cause
of Ike and Grun's credit, and one of the key
pieces of Sneader's argument hinges on what he believed might
have been a mistranslation of one of Hoffman's eight seven notes,
which may have confused verb tense a little bit. While
most translations indicate that Hoffman was saying the compound was

(22:46):
about to be tested, Sneeeder put forth the idea that
actually should be translated to indicate that it already was
being tested, i e. The work that Hoffman was doing
was corroborative of an existing process rather than developmental. In
the year anniversary of the patent and Felix Hoffman's name,
Bear issued a press release addressing this ongoing debate about

(23:09):
Hoffman and Arthur eikenrun. The release states, quote the claim
that not Hoffman but his colleague, doctor Arthur ken Green
is responsible for the development cannot be proven. The statement
goes on to mention Walter Sneeeder and his assertion that
Hoffman was working off notes by iken Groen and that
I can Green should be giving credit. But Bear's stance

(23:30):
was that Iken Groun was never Hoffman superior, that they
were equals, and so it would be weird for him
to have assigned him a task, and that Sneider's claims
contradicted established documentation. Some of the confusion, the company claims,
comes from the fact that Iken gron did have a
subordinate named Hoffman, but that was Fritz Hoffman, not Felix.

(23:51):
The Bear account points out that Arthur Iiken Grew never
claimed credit for aspirin until he was in his eighties,
after instances over five decades when he attributed the work
to Felix Hoffman. Of course, there's a case to be
made that because he was Jewish, he might never have
felt that he had the agency in Germany to be
able to do that. And one of the places, though
where Sneader's case for Ike and Groon kind of falls apart,

(24:13):
is also noted in that press release. So in his
paper on the subject, Sneader mentions that Hoffman was never
publicly credited with the invention of aspirin until nineteen thirty four.
The assertion there is that this was an attempt to
write the Jewish ken Groun out of the record during
a period of intense anti semitism in Germany. But the
problem there is that Hoffman was credited on the patent

(24:35):
application all the way back in eight nine, as well
as another paperwork that dated back to when he was
doing the experiments in eighteen ninety seven. Beyer's statement concludes
by noting that both ken Grud and Hoffman were researchers
working for Beyer in eighteen nine seven, basically saying they
were in a work for higher a situation. The statement
finished with quote, it would have made no difference to

(24:56):
either the company or the success of the aspirin brand,
whether one or the other is considered the first to
succeed in the acetylation of salas so like acid for
the first time in a chemically pure and stable form. Yeah,
it's easy for a big company to go. It doesn't
matter who got credit, neither of them was really getting
anything out of it. But of course the different people
involved in this effort it matters a great deal. We

(25:19):
have talked of many times and several times lately about
how scientific discovery and credit is an issue of great
debate and great passion. So um, but which of the
bear scientists truly invented aspirin will likely never be conclusively settled.
It's interesting reading modern more modern accounts of the whole

(25:39):
thing that they do kind of mention that this this
debate goes on, although some completely just go with the
Felix Hoffman version. Kind of fascinating, but that is the
invention of aspirin. Do you have some listener mail also
I do. This is from our listeners Summer, and she
is writing to us about our recent episode The crampuson

(26:00):
Friend's Holiday Special four and specifically the Seven Lucky Gods.
And she writes, my name is Summer, and I've been
listening to your podcast for probably four years now. I
started when I needed something to do while sewing costumes
for the high school drama club I run. My family
and I have lived in Japan for nine and a
half years now. My husband teaches at a high school
on an American military base. I had to write in
after listening to the seven Lucky Gods segment because I

(26:22):
have a crazy story about them. My friend Amanda and
I decided to do a seven Lucky Gods tour last
January in Yokahoma. Many cities or areas have their own
tours that can either be walked or driven in one day.
I've been driving in Japan for many years now, so
I felt confident and comfortable getting around, but there are
always surprises here. There are many roads that are technically

(26:43):
two lane, but in reality only one car can fit
down them. Also, something Google Maps struggles with is knowing
where the real entrance to a place is. These two
things conspired against us on our quest to get all
seven of our Lucky Gods. On our way to the
fifth stop, we were following our Google Maps instructions that
led us into a residential neighborhood with those two lane
roads that only fit my minivan. We went up a

(27:06):
hill and Google instructed us to turn at the top,
which made sense because directly in front of us was
a set of stairs, though I started to spect this
was not going to work, as the road that I
turned onto was now gravel bordered on the left by
a wall and on the right by a steep twenty
ft drop off with no guardrail. We drove very slowly
on this road for about twenty and turned again, only

(27:26):
to discover that we were now definitely on something that
was more akin to a sidewalk. It ended about twenty
in front of us in stairs, which we obviously were
not going to drive down. I now had the unenviable
task of backing up around two corners on a not
road about seven ft wide in a minivan. Also did
I mention the cliff drop off on one side and

(27:47):
my three year old in the back seat. Thank Heavens
for backup cameras and my friend Amanda, who got out
and helped guide me around the corners and the telephone pools.
When we finally got back on a real road, we
parked the car and laughed from the sheer terror of
it all. We assume the stairs in front of us
were a back entrance to the shrine and we wandered
on him. Sure enough it was and we were able
to get our very lucky God and continue on, though

(28:08):
this time with a little less reliance on Google. I
look forward to doing another tour in Kamakura in although
I will probably do it on foot. Thank you for
creating such a fun and informative podcast. I always recommend
your episode on Staco and the One Thousand Cranes to
any friends that visit Hiroshima. That story is very close
to my heart after directing a show on it, and
I wept like a child at the mention of the

(28:30):
Hiroshima Peace Park. I we I get weepy just thinking
about it. See um, thank you for being my company
while I saw hundreds of costumes and drive around on
Adventures in Japan um summer. This is such a fun,
slightly terrifying story. I agree. The backup camera is magic.
I'm glad you're safe. That drop off sounds very scary
to me, and I uh. I hope that your visit

(28:53):
to all the Lucky Gods granted you luck for the
rest of the year, that you never found yourself in
such a precarious position. Again. Uh. If you had to
write to us, you can do so at History podcast
at I heart radio dot com. That is a new
issue email address, so take note, not the same as
the old one. You can also find us everywhere on
social media as missed in History, and you can visit
our website missed in History dot com. If you would

(29:15):
like to subscribe to the show, you can do that
on the I Heart Radio app, at Apple Podcasts, or
wherever it is you listen stuff you missed in hisstory
Class is a production of I heart Radios How Stuff Works.
For more podcasts. For my heart Radio, visit the I
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(29:35):
your favorite shows.