Zheng He and the Treasure Ships

Zheng He led expeditionary voyages from China in the 15th century. While there are many tall tales about his accomplishments, his actual life was pretty spectacular without them.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class from stuff
works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm
Tracy Wilson and I'm Holly Frying. Today we are going
to talk about Jung Hu and that has been requested
by at least two listeners, Fara and Eric. Jungha led

(00:23):
expeditionary voyages from China in the fifteenth century, and there
are some people that claim that he made it to
the America's and Australia, and that he circumnavigated the globe,
and that he solved a long two problem, and that
he found the city of Atlantis, basically, that he was
some kind of godlike maritime super genius. The historical record
does not support any of that, but none of that

(00:43):
embellishment is necessary at all, because the whole story is
extremely impressive already without any of those false things. Jungha's
expeditions were huge, that the ships themselves were enormous, and
they there were so many in the fleet that often
the fleets population was bigger than the ports that it
was visiting. Plus Jungha himself is a really interesting character. Also,

(01:07):
he served as a palace eunuch in the Ming dynasty,
so parents and teachers. It's explaining what a eunuch is
is not something you really feel like doing today, and
this is a good time to put this episode aside
for a while. Jungha was born Maha and what is
now Yunnan Province in southwestern China. He and his family
were Muslims, and, based on his father and grandfather both

(01:28):
taking the name Hajji, both likely made a pilgrimage to Mecca.
At some point in thirteen eighty one, MAHA's father either
died or was killed, and the same year, Maha, who
at this point was about ten, was captured by the
Ming army during its invasion of Yunon In thirteen eighty five,
when he was roughly thirteen, Maha was castrated. It was

(01:49):
common for the Ming army to castrate the young stuns
of its captives, many of whom did not survive that process.
It's not entirely clear why Maha wasn't castrated immediately when
he was captured or why he was roughly three years later. Regardless,
after this castration, Maha was sent to serve in the
household of the fourth son of juyuang Jiang, the hung

(02:11):
Wu emperor, as a palace eunuch Eunuchs had become established
as part of the Chinese court all the way back
to the Han dynasty, which was more than a thousand
years before this point. However, the Whoo Emperor just didn't
trust them. By being assigned to Judy, who was the
emperor's son, Maha had a considerably bigger list of privileges,
including more responsibilities and better access to education than he

(02:34):
would have been serving elsewhere in the emperor's court. Even
though he was still fairly young when he was castrated
and probably hadn't entered and definitely would not have completed puberty,
Maha wound up defying Chinese expectations of men who were
castrated as children. Rather than remaining petite with a high
voice and typically feminine mannerisms and interests, he grew to

(02:56):
be quite tall and quite broad, with a voice described
as quote loud as a huge bell, and he developed
an in depth knowledge of warfare. He accompanied the Prince
jud on multiple military expeditions. During these expeditions, Maha and
Judy became friends, and it turned out that this friendship
with the emperor's fourth son would serve Maha incredibly well

(03:19):
in his later life. In thirteen two, the emperor's oldest
son died. Typically, that son's eldest son, Julia n Win,
would have then been named crown prince, but the hung
Wu Emperor thought Ju d might be a more capable leader.
This was an opinion that Judy himself also shared, so

(03:39):
it's not surprising that after his father died and the
throne passed to Julia and Win as normal, this power
struggle uh played out and it turned into this outright
civil war. Now this could be an entire podcast, and
we're not going to get into the details because it's
really outside the focus of what we're talking about today.
But overwhelmingly, Judy over three his nephew and took the throne,

(04:01):
something that he was able to do in part because
of information he got from escaped court unis about the
layout of the city and how it was defended. Once
he was on the throne, Judy named himself the jung
La Emperor, which means lasting Joy. Maja's position became immensely
more powerful. The Young La Emperor renamed him as a gift,

(04:22):
replacing his surname of Ma, which was a common surname
among Chinese Muslims. With the more prestigious surname Jung. The
new emperor also gave the eunuchs who had helped him
in this rebellion far more power than previous emperors had
been comfortable bestowing upon eunichs. This actually set up an
ongoing power struggle between the Unichs and Confucian advisors at court,

(04:44):
the latter of whom were far more conservative and generally
opposed to outward expansion and exploration from China. In fourteen
oh three, the Young La Emperor ordered the construction of
the largest fleet of ships in China's history to undertake
a huge trading expedition through the China Seas in the
Indian Ocean, and its commander was to be jung Hu.

(05:05):
This is the first time in Chinese history that a
eunuch had been placed in such an important military role.
We're gonna talk more about the fleet uh that Jungha commanded,
but first we're gonna have a brief sponsor break. A

(05:26):
common misperception about Chinese history is that the nation has
for most of that history been extremely, almost obsessively isolationist,
with the only real form of trade being the Silk Road.
That is Dupu extremely simply false. While China has, at
various points definitely taken a much more isolationist view of
the world. It has also undertaken periods of exploration and

(05:48):
trade over great distances throughout most of its history. This
maritime tradition started with canoes and sailing rafts thousands of
years ago. By two during the Sung dynasty, the emperor
established China's first official permanent navy, and within a century
the navy boasted about six hundred ships and fifty two
thousand conscripted men, and from the twelfth to fifteen centuries,

(06:12):
the nation continually refined its tools and methods for shipbuilding,
naval warfare, and navigation. The Young La Emperor's treasure fleet
simply would not have been possible without all these centuries
of nautical experience. The treasure fleet was much much too
big and too complex to basically be the product of
a nation's first ever attempt at building a boat and

(06:32):
helming an expedition across a long distance. By fourteen oh seven,
China had either built or refit one thousand, six hundred
eighty one ships for the treasure fleet Emperor Judy Has
had ordered. This required a huge increase in China's lumber industry,
with timber being farmed inland and floated down rivers to
the coast. Craftsmen and laborers, along with their families were

(06:54):
transferred to the coast as well, with hundreds of households
relocating to work in the shipyard. Among the ships built
in these ship shipyards were enormous junks that were built
specifically for sea travel. These were called bouchwan or treasure boats,
or long Chon, which was dragon boats. They combined aspects
of two existing ships. One of these ships was a

(07:16):
flat bottom junk that had been made to travel the
relatively shallow Yellow Sea, where the biggest threat was running
into ever shifting sandbars. So these were ships that that
sort of road high in the water and their bottoms
were really flat. The other was a four decked ship
that had been made for sea travel. This one has
a much deeper and very pointed keel and very wide

(07:37):
decks and a strong prow that was suitable for ramming things.
Ramming things was one of the Chinese Navy's favorite ways
of attacking. And another ship, the treasure ships. Masts and
rigging were like the sand boats of the Yellow Sea
to catch the most wind, and their hulls were more
like the existing ocean ships to stay upright in rough seas.

(07:58):
The treasure ships were enormous. Exact dimensions have been tricky
to calculate because the units of measure that we're being
used at the time weren't exactly standardized, but the general
consensus is that the biggest dragon ships were between three
hundred and nine and four hundred and eight feet long
and one d sixty two one hundred and sixty six
ft wide, So that's roughly a hundred and twenty long

(08:21):
and fifty wide. That is a lot of ships. That's
multiple ships, like multiple of Christopher Columbus's ships could have
fit into one of these, Like I think Christopher Columbus's
entire all of them, all of them could have gone here.
It's like a small cruise ship. It's a gigantic. These

(08:42):
ships used ballast rudders, anchors, and holes that would partially
fill up with water, daring rough seas to make them
more stable. They also had nine staggered masts that bore
twelve square sales that would catch the land. They were
armed with cannons, although they weren't really meant as fighting ships.
Their defense was really the work of warships that were
also part of the armada. In addition to huge cargo

(09:05):
areas for carrying treasure from and back to China, there
were also luxurious accommodations on board meant to carry both
Chinese envoys and envoys that went back to China from
other nations. And you could say the ships themselves were
luxurious as well. The sails were made from red silk,
and the bodies were extensively carved and painted with things

(09:26):
like dragons and phoenixes, really dramatic on the water. The
treasure ship's cargo it basically included the best that China
had to offer, including porcelains, silks, tapestries, cotton, lacquer ware, art, hemp, oils,
and candles. They were hoping to trade for things like ivory, tortoiseshell, incense, pearls,
precious stones, woods that were either rare or couldn't be

(09:49):
obtained in China, and substances that were used as medicine
like sulfur, rhinoceros horn, deer, antler, incense, and aromatic herbs
and spices and it Asian to the treasure ships, these
fleets also included warships and patrol boats, horseships that carried horses.
Both were trading for the cavalry. Water tankers and completely

(10:10):
separate supply ships. Communicating across this immense armada in a
day when there was no radio, Just text them right.
This required flags and lanterns to make visual signals from
one ship to another, a loud drums to warn the
fleet of instorming incoming storms really quickly, gongs and bells

(10:33):
to sound signals aboard each ship, and then carry your
pigeons for long distances across the fleet. Stars and instruments
were used to measure latitude. Time was kept on board
via graduated incense sticks, which I love that idea. That's
how I'm going to keep time from now on. So
if I run a little late, I'm adjusting instead of
the hour glass on your on your desk, we will,

(10:55):
we will burn graduated incense sticks. That speed was measured
by throwing an object overboard and then following it as
the ship passed it, using a chance to measure out
the pace, sort of like a more poetic version of
counting one Mississippi to Mississippi to account how many seconds
have passed since that lightning happened. I'm still back on
the drums, wondering if drum noise would ever get confused

(11:17):
with thunder. That's a good question. I imagine they could
recognize the difference. I would probably the drumbeats being used
were distinctive enough, sound quite as muddled as thunder usually does.
I would think, I'm just thinking about sound carrying across water.
But yes, this might be a good experiment. Let's go
on a boat trip. Okay uh. It took as many

(11:38):
as twenty eight thousand people to crew a fleet of
this size. So again, massive aboard where soldiers, sailors, astrologers
and geomanswers, translators, medical officers, envoys, and a number of
government ministers to oversee operations. Most of the rank and
file soldiers and sailors were criminals who had been banished

(11:59):
and sentenced to the work. The Emperor's UNUS commanded the
entire operation. There were seven directors, ten assistant directors, and
fifty two others whose ranks were not specified. And then,
of course there was Junghu, the commander in chief. In
addition to acting as ambassadors and imperial representatives, the UNIX
basically supervised the military activity aboard Jungaha traveled with all

(12:24):
but the second of these seven voyages. That one he
skipped to see to see to other tasks in China.
And we're going to talk about what happened during these voyages,
but first we will pause once again for a brief
word from a sponsor. To return to the expeditions. From

(12:47):
fourteen oh five until fourteen thirty three, China sent massive
fleets of treasure ships and all these other ships on
seven different voyages. Strictly speaking, they were not voyages of exploration.
The trade roots that they were following had already been established,
many of them from the opposite direction, by traders and
explorers who had been headed to China. This includes even

(13:08):
Betuda of Morocco, who sailed to China along with many, many, many,
many many other places about a hundred years before the
first three fleets set sail in fourteen o five, fourteen
o seven, and fourteen o nine, and if you can
do the math, you would judge that they lasted about
two years apiece. They traveled from Nanjing on the eastern

(13:29):
coast of China to Kasha Code then known as Calicut,
on the western coast of India, with stops along the
way at various ports in Southeastern Asia, Indonesia and Sri
Lanka then known of course as Ceylon, along with other
ports in India. Each of these first three voyages had
really similar goals. They re established trading and diplomatic relationships

(13:50):
that the whom emperor had previously pretty much shut down.
They reinforced these relationships with each subsequent visit, including setting
the expectation that tributes paid to the emperor. The fleet
would pick up ambassadors, or the ambassadors would travel to
China separately bearing that tribute. Ambassadors then returned home, either
on subsequent voyages of the Treasure Fleet or by other means.

(14:13):
The voyages were also meant to help ensure peace in
the region. The first and largest fleet, with its three
D and seventeen ships, was particularly important in this regard.
It defeated a pirate known as chen zu Ye, who
had been plundering ships in the Strait of Malacca, which
connects the Indian Ocean and the South China Sea. The
first our Mada captured seven of his ships, and they

(14:35):
burned ten others. With chen Zui out of the way,
subsequent expeditions sailed with far fewer ships. During the Third voyage,
China recognized Malacca as a sovereign nation, putting it on
equal diplomatic fitting with its neighbors and making it less
likely that those neighbors would try to conquer it, since
if they did, that would anger the Chinese and it's

(14:56):
obviously vast navy. On this and other voyage is Jungha
also erected stone tablets which documented the voyages and offered
thanks to multiple deities and multiple languages, it's actually one
of the ways that we know where he went and went.
Not all of China's peacemaking efforts were as cut and
dried as ousting a pirate or recognizing a nation's sovereignty, though.

(15:19):
The third voyages stopped in Sri Lanka then known as Ceylon,
as we mentioned earlier, met with some trouble, and the
Chinese and local accounts of what happened very really drastically.
According to local history, the Chinese stole a relic believed
to be one of the Buddhist teeth and kidnapped local leaders.
The Chinese perspective was that it stopped worrying among the

(15:40):
nation's three factions and relieved it of someone who was
trying to usurp the genuine rulers. Now. Regardless of how
it actually played out, the Emperor wound up claiming sovereignty
over Ceylon and demanding that its rulers pay tribute to him.
It's consensus is that it was probably a little of both.
As far as what actually happened. It sounds like one

(16:02):
of those instances of cultural tone deafness where someone goes,
I can solve this problem. I will just remove this obstacle,
but that obstacle is a really important thing. Yeah, yeah,
it's that this is one of the cases, like a
lot of people who talk about these expeditions or like
this is an entirely peaceful thing, not really Like you

(16:23):
don't travel with a gigantic fleet of warships on an
entirely where then you also have something like this play
out that obviously was was somewhat violent and uh and
not really appreciated by the local population. China's fourth expedition,
ordered in fourteen twelve and launched in fourteen fourteen, went

(16:44):
a lot farther than the first three, with the Emperor
wanting to reach the port of Hormas in the mouth
of the Persian Gulf, There they traded for precious gems, corals, pearls,
and carpets, hormas, and the neighboring city states, also, like
the ports that had been visited on the prior expeditions,
sent emissaries and tributes back with the fleet. These tributes

(17:04):
included animals as well, including lions, leopards, and horses. Other
emissaries that made their way back to China by other
means also brought giraffes, which has become one of the
really famous things that came back its tribute. One eunuch
that was leading another expedition actually mistook the giraffe for
a mythical sacred Chinese animal known as the Chilen. The

(17:27):
next two expeditions, led by Jungha, which departed in fourteen
seventeen and fourteen one, stretched farther still, all the way
to the western coast of Africa, once again to trade
and return with emissaries to the Emperor. Each one also
returned emissaries who had come to China on or after
the one before, and these once again followed the same

(17:49):
routes as earlier expeditions, visiting many of the same ports
before continuing on to what is now Oman Yemen, Somalia, Kenya,
and Tanzania for reasons that aren't entire cleared. Jengha himself
returned from the six voyage nearly a year before the
rest of the fleet did. It was possibly to take
part in the ceremony for the completion of the new

(18:09):
Forbidden City. In the years between Jengha's return from the
sixth Voyage and his departure on the last and seventh
one in one, after a much longer gap than any
of the previous expeditions, the emperor started to experience a
number of problems. A scandal involving cortisans having intimate relations
with the eunuch swept the court. His favorite concubine also died.

(18:33):
The Emperor himself was hurt in a hunting accident, and
on maynight, the brand new Forbidden City was struck by
lightning and heavily damaged in the fire that followed that strength,
the nation began to experience financial problems, brought about by
everything from epidemics to military struggles with neighboring nations to
the strain on the lumber industry for the wood needed

(18:56):
to repair the Forbidden City. The young La Emperor Judy
died on August twelfth, Jungha was away on a separate,
smaller voyage unrelated to these huge treasure voyages. When the
emperor died, he didn't actually return home until after the
emperor's son, Ju Gaujer, the hong Shi Emperor, was on
the throne. Ju Gauger's first edict was that all the

(19:19):
treasure voyages were to be stopped. No new ships would
be built, no existing ships would be repaired. He returned
to Confucian ideals that put the focus on the world
within China's borders, not outside of it. But after just
nine months in power, Ju Gaujer died. Following him was
his son Jiujanji, the Shwanda Emperor uh and when he

(19:43):
became emper he rolled back a lot of his father's
more conservative direct directives. Jujanji ordered another expedition, and it
seems it was clear from the outset that it would
be the last one. It was at least as large,
and possibly larger than the first had been. Before leaving,
Jungha documented the achievements of his previous voyages on a

(20:04):
pair of stone tablets, purportedly as thanks to the patron
Goddess of Sailors, but possibly also to make sure some
evidence of the voyages survived that presented them in a
positive light, since they were now well out of favorite Court.
The seventh and last fleet collected cargo and crew along
the Chinese coast until January twelve, four two. It arrived

(20:27):
in Calicut on December tenth of that year. From there,
the fleet actually separated into smaller groups that followed different
routes on the Arabian Peninsula. A caravan from the fleet
traveled to and from Mecca, although it appears that Jungha
himself did not due to his poor health at the time.
The fleet later reconvened at Calicut and returned to China.

(20:48):
Somewhere along the way, Jungha, by then in his sixties,
died and was buried at sea. After this last voyage,
emissaries from other nations gradually slowed on and being sent
to China. After a while, smugglers, instead of giant fleets
of traders and ships, became the primary means for foreign
goods to get into China. The size of the navy

(21:11):
got smaller and smaller as China's military focus turned to
land based defense and against increasingly aggressive neighbors. One reason
why people have invented a much inflated account of Jungha's
already extremely noteworthy voyages. Was that in fourteen seventy seven
his logs and documents were lost, possibly deliberately destroyed, in

(21:33):
ongoing struggles between Confusions and imperial unix, who, as we
mentioned earlier, had vastly different worldviews vastly different opinions on
how these voyages had gone. Until archaeological excavations of the
shipyards began in far more recent history. Most of the
documentation we had existed in the form of items that
have been traded during the voyages, as well as histories

(21:56):
of other nations that the Chinese had visited and the
stone tablets that Jung himself had erected. In the late
fifteenth and early sixteenth centuries, Europe took China's place as
the world's greatest maritime power, albeit with much much smaller
ships that traveled in much smaller fleets than what China
was using. However, according to the lore, the nations where

(22:16):
their their expeditions overlapped with where China had gone during
Jung hust voyages weren't exactly impressed by the goods that
the Europeans brought to trade. When Vasco da Gama landed
in Eastern Africa in fourte the Africans who met him
basically thought that Portugal's goods were trinkets compared to China's.
That kind of the whole image of that cracks me up,

(22:39):
Like it had been at this point six year eighty
years between the last time that China was there and
when folks from Portugal should showed up, And I'm sort
of imagining people like, Okay, what is this? We had
silk and beautiful lacquer before, and now we have this
like basin that you wanted to trade. There is a

(23:01):
replica of one of Jungha's ships that was built built
for the Jungha Treasure Boat Factory Ruins Park in Nanjing.
A second project was meant to build one that can
actually sail and to recreate one of his voyages. That
multimillion dollar project was expected to launch in two thousand
and eight. It has clearly been a little while since
then that project has been plagued by delays and is

(23:24):
apparently now on hold. Yeah. I tried to find a
definitive answer to what actually had happened, and I could
not find anything particularly recent about it other than that
you know, there was definitely a replica that was built
for the museum that there are plenty of pictures of
them people launched, but this one that was actually meant
to undertake a replica voyage is apparently just sort of

(23:47):
what's the status Gland, We don't know. If you want
to learn more about this um, there's a book called
wind China Rolled the Seese, The Treasure Fleet of the
Dragon Flow Dragon Flown Dragon Throne fourteen O five to four,
Team thirty three, which is from Oxford University Press, which
I really really liked. One of the things I've started
doing when I am trying to make sure that I

(24:08):
have good sources for things is that I will read
the reviews in academic journals of books that have been
published in academic presses. And all of the reviews of
this are like for people who are new to this,
it's a great introduction if you are already an expert.
It contains nothing new, and I was like, that's perfect, Yes,

(24:29):
that's exactly what I'm looking for. So uh that is
again called win China Ruled Disease. It's really quite good
and very accessible. Do you also have a listener mail
Dear Tracy hid. My listener mail is from Manda h
And I'm not going to read all of it because, um,
it is a it is a more lengthy mail. Um.

(24:52):
And this is actually actually about an episode that Holly
did the research on, and Manda says, Holly and Tracy,
I cannot even begin to tell you the absolute joy
that filled me when I saw the podcast title today
Knitting's early history. I've been an avid knitter for the
last three and a half years, teaching myself entirely on YouTube.
I'm not afraid to try any new technique, and I've
never shied away from a pattern I have. I even

(25:13):
had a local yard shop owner tell me the advanced
project I had taken on within a year of learning
to knit made me a masochist. I was completely enthralled
through the entire podcast, but especially at the end when
I learned I am a Yorkshire Dale. I have a
knitting bag that I carry around with me at waste level.
I knit while I walk, travel, play games with friends,
attend trainings while I work. Basically wherever whenever, I will knit.

(25:35):
This began because I have attention depths, a hyperactivity disorder
that was diagnosed as an adult. I always doodled in
classes while I was getting my associates degree, but it
wasn't enough to keep me super focused on what I
was supposed to be learning like I wanted. I decided
that I needed to find something to do with my
hands to keep me focused and tried crochet. That did
not work for me, so then I thought maybe knitting
would be better. Knitting was the perfect activity for me.

(25:56):
And then she goes on to talk about attributing many,
many off some awesome life successes to being able to
focus through knitting, which I thought was extremely awesome. Um.
And then she goes on with the side note that
is actually the thing that made me want to be
the one to read this. She says, Tracy, congratulations on
your upcoming wedding. I hope it's everything you dreamed of

(26:18):
and more. On the knitting podcast, I thought of emailing
you to say, make a gauge, but then I thought,
don't do that. Everyone will tell her to knit a gauge.
Then you said, I know I could make a gauge,
but I'm lazy. I literally laughed out loud because I
used to be the exact same, exact same way until
the sweater dune, dune done. I decided, as a gift

(26:39):
to myself for my hard work getting into the one
year master's program, I was going to knit myself as wetter.
It was complicated, hundreds of cables. I had to learn
a lot of new techniques to make it. It took
me months because the pattern was so difficult, and then
when it was done, it didn't fit. Now I knit
a swatch, wash it, dry it, and block it every
single time. It was definitely a face pal moment. And

(26:59):
I didn't get to wear a graduation like I planned
because I didn't knit a gauge. Uh. And then she
goes on to say another couple of things and says,
thanks again, Manda. You're looking at me like you have
a thought. Well, because I realized while listening to you
read that letter that she hit upon one of the
other reasons I'm not a knitter. Oh, yeah, I can
fix any size problem in a garment. Yeah, I can

(27:22):
add or subtract. I've gotten pretty artful at putting in
panels that blend, but knitting I would be so angry
if that happened. Yeah. Well, so many, many, many people
thank you for your advice. Have written in to say
that I should have blocked my shawl. That was definitely
not the problem. It was all yeah, like it was

(27:47):
perfect and beautiful and so so tiny. I had definitely
been knitting much too tightly for what the pattern called for,
which would have been prevented if I had done a
gauge watch first, which I did not do. So while
I appreciate everyone and everyone's enthusiasm about blocking, uh that

(28:07):
that was not the problem. Uh. And no one else
needs to suggest that I block my shell because I
also don't have it anymore. That was years ago and
I have moved nine d miles since then. So thank
you again, Amanda. Thank you to everyone who has written
in about UM about blocking and other tips for that
project's gone. It's it cannot be salvage now, it's super gone. Uh.

(28:33):
We also had a couple of folks who wrote in
to talk about how um they do various different crafts
and sewing work and etcetera, and are also blind. After
we had talked about how it's how I think it's
easier to knit in the dark than to maybe do
other things in the dark. So thank you to all
the folks who have written in, Because I had not
really thought about that. Um. Obviously if you do not

(28:57):
have sight, you can still do the same things. Yeah,
I think I think for um, for me and probably
anyone that is cited, is so hard to make that
leap of like how on earth would you figure it out?
But you do? Yeah, Yeah, I think if you're a
cited person, it is probably easier uh with like something
that's big and tactile like than something that is like

(29:22):
it would be harder for me personally as a cited
person to like figure out where I had sown my
seams uh in a in a delicately sowned garment than
with my big junkie wooly knit uh knit stuff. So
thank you. Um, we have heard from I think knitters
and crochetars and sculptors and seamstresses. Yeah, which was awesome.

(29:46):
So thank you so much everyone for writing in. If
you would like to try to us about this or
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stuffworks dot com. We're also on Facebook at facebook dot
com slash miss in history and on Twitter at miss
in history. Are Tombler is miss in history dot tumbler
dot com. We're also on Pinterest at pinters dot com.
Slash missed in History. I'm getting sing saggy with this today. Uh.

(30:08):
If you would like to learn more about what we
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looking for in the search bar. We've got all kinds
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show notes for today's episode that will include everything about
that book that I mentioned at the end. We also
have an archive of everything we have ever done lots

(30:29):
of cool stuff, so you can do all that and
a whole lot more and how stuff works dot com
or missed them history dot com for more on this
and thousands of other topics. Is it how stuff works
dot com