April 23, 2014 • 26 mins
Could hydrogen be the fuel of the future? We look at the most plentiful element in the galaxy and discuss the possibility.
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Get in test with technology with text stuff from how
stuff works dot com. Hey the everyone, and welcome to
tech Stuff. I'm Jonathan Strickland and I'm Lauren Bolkum. And
today we're going to respond to a listener request. This
comes to us from Daniels via Facebook. Yes, he said, Hi, guys,
(00:24):
I've just listened to your episodes about Tesla. I wonder
how would fully electric cars like Tesla compete with hydrogen
based cars like becoming Toyota model which is cheaper. Tesla
is the only successful fully electric car so far. Isn't
this a sign that this is not the right direction
for Toyota to bet on hydrogen? It would be nice
at at some point you could cover the hydrogen car
(00:46):
and compare them with the electric ones. So we're gonna
do that, but we're gonna go even further. We're going
to describe everything about hydrogen and how it's being used
in multiple ways. Yeah, because hydrogen is a really simple
element with a huge amount of potential. Simplest element in
the universe. One proton, one electron, That is it. Get
yourself a proton, get yourself electron, and let them make friends.
(01:08):
You've got hydrogen. So it's also the most abundant element
in the universe. It's it's everywhere. This is the stuff
that the Sun fuses into helium at a temperature of
millions of degrees. Yeah, we had to put that in there.
Uh yeah, So so it's technically fueling well everything, I
suppose once you've got it working in the sun. Yeah. Yeah,
(01:29):
pretty much everything on Earth life as we know it
exists because of hydrogen being built into helium in the sun.
There are some exceptions, like you could look at some
extreme of files in Earth where they're living off chemicals
that are being produced by uh, the gases and things
being released in deep undersea fissures. But most of life,
(01:53):
the vast majority of it, depends at least in some
part on light yes, and hydrogen. Although we have only
known about its existence as an element for a relatively
short period of time, has has been kind of theorized about.
There's been people who have worked with what they called like,
they had various words for it, inflammable air being a
(02:15):
popular one, because they realized, hey, there's this stuff that
when you do things to other things happens, and then
if you put a fire near it, it blows up
right inflammable mean inflammable meaning inflammable, Yes, exactly able to
be set fire to. Right, And in this case, it's
not just that it burns, it's exclusive. So the word
hydrogen is actually combination of two words from Greek hydro
(02:38):
and genus, which together mean water forming. And once you
know about hydrogen and you know what water is, it's
H two O makes perfect sense. You gotta have hydrogen
or you don't have water. Of course, if you don't
have oxygen, you still don't have water. And while this
hydrogen stuff is everywhere, I mean, it's the most abundant
element in the universe, it isn't often found on it's lonesome.
(03:03):
That's because it makes friends really easily. Yeah, it's it's
kind of like the opposite of me. It actually gets
real buddy buddy really fast, and and and the buddies
like it. So I got half that equation. But anyway,
hydrogen forms compounds readily, right, You get compounds and all
sorts of stuff. You got water being a big example.
At hydrogen bonds with oxygen. You have water, you have
(03:26):
lots of hydrocarbons, you've got um. You even have occlusion,
which is molecular condensation inside igneous rocks. The point is
is that it's bound up with other stuff. It's not
just out there on its own. So if we want
to harvest hydrogen to use as fuel, you gotta think
a little outside the box. You can't just go to
(03:47):
the hydrogen store by it. Yeah, it doesn't grow on
any hydrogen trees. Now you have to you have to
do something to something else generally in order to get
some of it exactly, which means you've got to expend
energy in order to get this fuel. And that's one
of the things that's really important about any sort of fuel.
It's not just hydrogen. We're talking about any kind of
fuel where you're planning on getting energy out. If it
(04:08):
requires you to put more energy into it to get
the fuel, then you're getting as a benefit of the fuel.
It's a losing proposition, right. Although there are lots of
different ways to to produce hydrogen UM. You can use
light to split water molecules, you can gasify biomass waste,
you can even just kind of let a bunch of
microbes do the work for you as part of their
(04:28):
normal metabolism. UM, but one of the most popular ones
right now anyway, what accounts for about of the hydrogen
in the United States. Is something called reforming, in which
carbon based fuels like natural gas typically methane, are reacted
with steam at high pressures and temperatures. That produces hydrogen,
a little bit of carbon dioxide, and carbon monoxide, that
(04:48):
last of which is then reacted to produce more hydrogen
and carbon dioxide. Um. You will note that that both
of these do produce greenhouse gases, so it's a little
bit less friendly than something like electron lysis, although you
have to pump a whole lot of energy into electrolysis.
We'll talk a little bit more about that later. Um. Overall,
reforming does have the potential to overall reduce our carbon
(05:10):
footprint if it could provide the hydrogen for like a
whole fleet of fuel cell vehicles. Right. That's one of
the big things about hydrogen. We'll talk about that in
just a second, about how it does not give off
greenhouse gases in ideal cases. Uh. Keep in mind we're
talking ideal cases because it all depends on how you're
using the hydrogen. So, uh yeah, I also read that
(05:32):
there have been some studies of algae that give off hydrogen,
which you know, if we were ever able to make
an algae farm that was efficient enough, that would be
a great way. But there are a lot of people
who question whether or that that's practical. It may not
ever be something that generates enough hydrogen for it to
be worth the amount of effort it would take. Again
that sort of energy losing proposition night. So some other
(05:56):
things about hydrogen. It has a low ignition energy. That
means you don't have to apply a lot of energy
to it to get it to ignite. That makes sense,
you know, it doesn't take much to set it on
fire essentially, is what we're talking about here. It actually
requires an order of magnitude less energy to ignite hydrogen
than it does to ignite gasoline. Yeah, so that means
(06:17):
gasoline is pretty pretty flammable, pretty dar inflammable. Yeah, kids,
let's not play with the stuff at home, shall we,
or anywhere else for that matter. Let's treat it like
serious business. But it's both a good and bad thing,
right Because the hydrogen stance it's easy to ignite, means
that you can easily implement that in an engine. Uh,
it does it very efficiently. You don't have to spend
(06:38):
a lot of energy to make it do what you
want it to do. On the other hand, because it
has such a low ignition point, it's also a challenge
engineering wise, because if your engine gets hot enough, the
engine itself could cause the hydrogen to ignite prematurely before
it gets into the operative fits right, and then it
could make everything inoperative. You would get inoperative right quick.
(07:00):
So that's you know that there's a there's a good
and bad side of this. If you can engineer your
way around it, it can eventually be a benefit. Oh sure,
it technically has the highest energy output by weight of
any fuel um though it is the lightest elements, so
that's kind of yeah. You kind of have to get
a lot of it together too. So it's because it's
it's not dense, you know, which is something else will
(07:22):
chat about. So one of the reasons why we're even
talking about hydrogen, one of the big ones, it's what
we alluded to earlier, is the fact that the combustion
is really clean, particularly if you're using hydrogen and pure
oxygen as the mixture that goes into your engine, all right,
because then your output is going to be just energy
(07:43):
and water. Yep, you get energy in the form of
the power that you generate and some heat because of
course we don't have any perfect systems where we don't
lose some energy in the form of heat. But yeah,
the only other thing you get is water. You don't
get anything else. And this is when I when I
talk about mixtures, we'll talk about combustion in gen's a
little later too. This is a typical thing where you
mix together some fuel and some air to go into
(08:05):
a combustion engine. Same sort of thing with hydrogen. You're
not putting just pure hydrogen and you're mixing it with
some form of air, in this case oxygen. However, that
being said, most hydrogen combustion engines are not using pure
oxygen to mix together to make the combustible mixture. They're
using air. So air has stuff in it besides oxygen.
(08:28):
In fact, the primary component of our atmosphere is not oxygen.
It's nitrogen. So one of the byproducts you get with
using a hydrogen combustion engine that uses air is that
you get some nitrous oxides. Nitrogen oxides, I should say,
not nitrous oxides, which would be hilarious until you suffocated,
but nitrogen oxides. Uh, that's a that's a pollutant. You
(08:50):
don't want that UM and you can also get carbon
monoxide and carbon dioxide if you get some oil seeping
into the combustion chambers because uh, oxygen does. Our our
atmosphere doesn't have like tons of carbon in it, but
oil does. So there are chances of having in a
hydrogen combustion engine this kind of pollutants. You can get
(09:11):
around that if you wanted to go with fuel cells,
and we'll talk about those two. So the amount of
power that a hydrogen engine can generate is dependent upon
a few different things. It depends upon the mix of
air and fuel and how that fuel is injected into
those combustion chambers in your engine. So, theoretically, the maximum
(09:32):
output of a hydrogen based combustion engine using a pre
mixed method, this is where you have like a carburetor
type situation that is mixing air and fuel together and
then it goes into the combustion chamber. Uh. If you're
using that method, theoretically your maximum output is about eight
of the power generated in a comparable gasoline engine. So
(09:55):
not as powerful, right, But if you were to take
a direct in injection approach, which mixes the fuel and
air after the intake valve in the combustion chamber closes.
Then the hydrogen based engine can theoretically produce fift more
power than a gasoline engine, So you kind of have
a less in one way or percent more the other way. Um, However,
(10:20):
this is all based upon the idea that you're using
exactly the amount of air you need to complete combustion.
So you're using just the right mixture of air and
just the right mixture of hydrogen. But the downside of
that is that you also produce more pollutants that way, right, Although, okay,
so so this is a complicated issue and the numbers
(10:40):
on it are always going to be rough. But when
you're talking about fuel efficiency, you you need to use
more gasoline in order to make an engine do the
same amount of work than you would hydrogen. Yeah, exactly,
Like you have this note about gasoline vehicles operating at
around efficiency. What that means is that of all the
(11:03):
energy that's being generated is actually going to doing the
thing you needed to do, the other is being lost
in some way or another. Sure you usually due to
heat loss. Yeah, that's the big one, especially with engines.
I mean, engines generate lots and lots of heat. The
the ideal of a fuel cell vehicle using hydrogen, it's
closer to sixty percent efficiency um for For the record,
(11:24):
electric cars may manage somewhere between twenty five and sixty
percent fuel efficiency depending on where you get the electricity
to recharge that battery. Right, And and if you want
to be really technical, a fuel cell vehicle is kind
of a subset of electric vehicles. It's just that it's
an electric vehicle that you are refueling with hydrogen rather
than a closed battery system exactly. So yeah, it's a
(11:48):
great point, and that's another thing that we have to
take into consideration. Now. Typically, if if we're talking about
you know, I just mentioned about having just enough air
and fuel to complete combustion, and you get that that
crazy near of a gasoline power engine, but you produce
more more pollutants as well. Usually we're not using exactly
(12:08):
the amount of air because we want to cut back
on those pollutants. One of the big reasons we want
to use hydrogen is the too cut back on pollutants.
So if we're producing more pollutants by making it really efficient,
then we're like, well, we just kind of traded off
that was a lot of money to not do any
better exactly. So what we tend to see our engines
that use about twice as much air as is actually
(12:30):
required to complete combustion. Now, this reduces pollution, but it
also reduces the output of the engine. Yeah, sad trombone. Okay,
so these are just tradeoffs. This is the way the
real world works. We have to sit there and say, Okay,
there's not a magic solution that is going to solve
all the problems equally, we have to start making tradeoffs.
This is a pretty good one because you can you
(12:51):
can enlarge the engine size and make up for a
lot of it. Right, So if you make the hydrogen
based engine larger than a gasoline based engine, you can
kind of make up this this loss. Now that does,
of course, mean you have to redesign vehicles around a
larger engine. So I mean it's you know, it's those
domino effects. Right. You could also include what's called a
turbo charger or supercharger, and you might wonder, hey, how
(13:12):
did those work? We'll do another episode because it's already
going to be a long one for this one, So
we can't. We can't sit there and uh and jump
into that and hope to make it out alive, because
no will kill us. The protective barrier is only so strong. Okay. So,
like we said, hydrogen not very dense. When you've got
one proton and one electron, you don't expect it to
(13:32):
be Nope, So it's uh, room temperature is a gas.
Getting enough hydrogen together in one place to be useful
as a fuel takes a lot of work, and some
of the easiest ways of storing it, like in extremely
cold liquid form, aren't really practical for toting around in
a consumer motor vehicle that might not want to incorporate
a complex cooling system due to you know, cost and
(13:54):
weight and space issues. So usually we end up having
to figure out a way of pressurizing it under hence
amounts of pressure. Now that of course creates another safety issue.
Anytime you have a compressed gas, it's under a lot
of pressure. If you rupture that containment unit in some way, yeah,
that's and then at on top of that that, the
gas itself is inflammable, and you've got the potential for really,
(14:17):
really a bad day, which is why a lot of
companies that have looked into using hydrogen as a fuel
in one way or another, whether as a combustion engine
fuel or whether as a fuel sell fuel. Have put
in a lot of research and development in safety for
these hydrogen canisters or you know else. They will never
be able to market it because it would just be
(14:37):
too dangerous. Although some people argue that, I mean, gasoline
tanks being driven around are also that's a it's a
good point, it's a fair point. I mean, we're we've
been relying on a technology that has a an inflammable
fuel for more than a century. And you know, although
it's not quite as dangerous as movies make it out
to be. I mean, it's not that where where you
(14:58):
you your car, your are sways a bed and then explodes. Yeah.
So if Michael Bay made cars, no one would ever
get in them. But fortunately, as far as I know,
he has not made one. Uh So, uh yeah, we've
we've been making use of this hydrogen for a long time.
And in fact, we, like Lauren said, we were kind
of playing with this stuff before we even had any
(15:20):
idea of what it was. We didn't really know about
elements or even gases. So we're gonna take you on
a historical journey and along this journey will be explaining
how some of this stuff works, because we figured we'd
kind of incorporate both the history and the technical stuff
all together. It's an experiment. Now before we jump into
(15:41):
the way Back Machine, because I know all you guys
have been missing it, Laurence looking at me terrified. Yeah, Lauren,
that's what that big thing is in the corner that
we haven't been using. It's all dusty and stuff. Turns
out it wasn't in Mongolia. It was just in a
supply closet. So we're gonna get in that in a second.
But before we do that, let's take a quick break
to thank our sponsor. Okay, so we're back and we're
(16:01):
ready to get into the way Back Machine, which I
know is going to sound absolutely amazing. I can't believe
all the bells and whistles that indicate to you that
we've actually traveled back in time, because in truth, it's silent.
But we have to give you some you know, way
of knowing that that's what's happened. Oh yeah, otherwise it's
not it's not fun radio trauma exactly. So let's let's
just go ahead and get in. Now. Over here, we've
(16:21):
got the dial, which I'm going to set back to
uh early seventeenth century. You know, I don't know how
it knows where I wanted to go. It just does.
But when is really tricky. All right, let's just hit
the button. Here, here we are. It's a glorious and
(16:44):
smelly So I want to introduce you to Johann Baptista
van Helmont, who is the first person to describe hydrogen
as a gas, and only that, he's the first person
to come up with the word gas to describe aubstances
that have the qualities of a gas. He was thinking
of stuff that is heavier than air or misty, or
(17:06):
he was just trying to come up with like a
collective noun to call this stuff. He proposed gas, and
it stuck. So he goes on to make some more
observations which in a few decades get picked up by
another person, a philosopher, a natural philosopher, and we'll chat
about him. His name is Robert Boyle. So between Robert
Boyle and Johan we have in six fifty stead or
(17:29):
Turque with the man may yearn which I know I've
absolutely butchered based Swiss, so so I'm sure he's fine.
With it. Yeah, they the Swiss have a beautiful way
with words that escapes the physical contortions my mouth can
go through. So uh. But he produced hydrogen and he
called it inflammable air, by combining iron with sulfuric acid. Now,
(17:53):
hydrogen is found in a lot of different compounds, including
all the acids, So if you are able to come
find it with other stuff, usually that that reaction you
get by introducing an element into acid will release the
hydrogen exactly. Now seventy one we get to that Irish
philosopher I had mentioned, Robert Boyle. Now he experimented with
(18:14):
producing hydrogen as well, and he was of the New
Philosophy movement. This was a really interesting movement. It combined
observations and experimentation with logical thinking to understand the world
around him. So this is sort of a proto scientist movement.
It's before we really had the formal sciences we This
is when alchemy was starting to transform into chemistry. Right.
(18:38):
We had people who had made observations and calculations on
things like physics, but it's now starting to actually take
form into the sciences as we know them today. So
he produced hydrogen by combining iron and various acids, and uh,
that's how he started to take a look at this
hydrogen gas. And he was he was pretty pretty intelligent.
(18:58):
He noticed that gass volume varies inversely with pressure, hence
Boil's law. Yeah, we named it after after him. He
also believed in alchemy and transmutation, so he didn't get
everything right. Lots of people today still believe in alchemy
and transmutation, so what we'll leave that for now. But yes, Boil,
he did a lot of work, and a lot of
(19:20):
his work inspired other people. So over the next several decades,
lots of different philosophers and then later chemists and scientists
began to experiment with hydrogen gas. They didn't really give
it a name yet, but they knew that the stuff
would blow up if you exposed it to flame, so
they began to really study it further until we get
(19:42):
to seventeen sixty six, and now we get to go
to England, because that's where Henry Cavendish was and he
was the first to recognize hydrogen as a distinct substance,
and he was also the first to describe the composition
of water. You know, before that everyone just said it's
wet and if they get cold, it gets hard. That's
that was pretty much it. If he gets really hot,
(20:04):
it gets cloudy. That's, you know, just that's where we
were with science until Cavendish came along. I might be
exaggerating a little, but he absolutely loved learning for learning sake.
He wasn't actually a scientist per se, though, was he. No,
not really, I mean he was, He was more like
just obsessed. He was one of the wealthiest men in
(20:25):
all of Europe. He had inherited a crazy sum of money,
and he chose to live very frugally in London. He
wasn't interested in the trappings of wealth. He wasn't interested
in ostentation. He was actually, according to one thing I read,
the only reason we even have a sketch of him
is because an artist surreptitiously drew one while at a gathering,
(20:48):
a small private gathering at his house. Because he didn't
he didn't, you know, want, He didn't. He didn't sit
for a portrait. He was super introvert, super introvert, and
he didn't really publish most of his work. He published
some of it, but not all of it, because he
wasn't really interested in that. He know, he just wanted
to know how the world works. He was just fascinated
with learning. He wasn't not necessarily as fascinated with teaching,
(21:09):
but he was definitely fascinated with learning. I want someone
to make a awkward action here, a movie about this guy. Yeah.
I have a feeling that we'd have to invent a
lot of of facts about his life, which makes it
even better. Yeah, that's what movies generally do. Anyway, I'd
be less offended if I knew less about the history
of the actual guy. So yeah, I think Henry Cavendish,
(21:29):
Supervillain would be an awesome movie. So I'll get to
work on that. Yes, all right. Then we moved to
seventeen eighty three, when Jacques Charles makes his first flight
in his balloon La Charliere, which used hydrogen as it's
a lifting agent because hydrogen is lighter than atmosphere, so
if you get enough of it together, the bulliancy will
counteract gravity and then you'll float right off the ground,
(21:51):
go up. Yeah. Meanwhile, in eighteen hundred, William Nicholson and
Anthony Carlyle described the process of electrolysis, in which electricity
is applied to water to break its molecules down into
their constituents, being oxygen and hydrogen. This will become important later. Yeah,
but just understanding that. Hey, this process where hydrogen and
oxygen gets together to make water is reversible if you
(22:11):
just pour energy into it. That's pretty cool. Eighteen or
six we have Francois Isazac de Rivaz, a Swiss inventor.
He built the de Revase engine. And again I apologize
if I'm absolutely butchering that, but this was the first
internal combustion engine to use hydrogen and oxygen as a fuel.
It would be nearly sixty five years before you get
(22:33):
the first gas lean powered internal combustion engine. So actually,
hydrogen combustible engines predate gas yeah by quite a bit.
So yeah, we've talked a lot about how electric cars
are older than you think, So are hydrogen combustion engine cars.
That's kind of cool. Then in eighteen twenty we have
the Reverend W. Cecil who writes a paper and I
(22:55):
love this title. Here we go on the application of
hydrogen gas to produce a moving power and machinery, with
a description of an engine which is moved by pressure
of the atmosphere upon a vacuum caused by explosions of
hydrogen gas and atmospheric air. I think it's a sink
pretty much. You've read the whole article just by the title.
But yeah, he he proposed an engine using hydrogen as
(23:18):
the combustible material. But it's a different style of combustion
engine than what we see today. So his design involved
having a chamber that you would fill with hydrogen plus
regular old air, and it would be connected to a
valve so that you could insert this stuff but it
wouldn't escape back out. Uh. And then the you would
(23:42):
put a flame in there, and then you have the
valve switched so it would allow it to escape again. Right,
you put the flame in, This causes the gas to
expand rapidly. Uh. And normally in our combustion engines we
used as a pushing force, but at this case, the
the piston in this chamber is all the way out already,
so it can't be pushed further out, so he's not
(24:03):
using as a pushing force. Instead. Once that guest starts
to cool and is released, it starts to shrink down.
It's not and he's not letting more air in there
to replace it, and the valve is closed. So it's
pulling the piston back in in that vacuum that's created
in the chamber exactly. It's a partial vacuum and imperfect vacuum,
and that creates an area of low pressure. That low
pressure pulls on the piston, which then moves to the
(24:26):
other end of the combustion chamber. So you're using this
vacuum engine. Now it worked, but uh, it's not really practical.
So this particular design wasn't widely implemented, but it does
in fact work. The principles are all sound. So then
you had a lot more experimentation following with hydrogen, which
(24:48):
included everything from inventors to chemists to physicists and regular
old crazy people, and all of this is leading up
to some pretty cool stuff, including the first fuel cell.
But here's the thing, guys, there's a lot more to
cover here. We've got fuel cells to talk about, we
have other combustion engine to talk about. We've got exactly
(25:11):
how hydrogen is going to be used today, how it's
how it's being used right now, and how it will
be used in the future. And in fact, it's so
much stuff we've decided we're gonna split this sucker up,
we're gonna do a second episode so we can really
do this justice and dig in here. So, guys, since
we're splitting this up, it's now time for me to
ask you that special question. Hey, do you have something
(25:32):
he wants to talk about? Let us know, because if
you don't, we're just gonna keep talking about whatever we
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what you want to hear. So let us know by
sending us an email. A lot of you have responded
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about how to truly surf the web as anonymously and
as secure as you possibly can. We've heard you, We've
(25:54):
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(26:16):
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Really Zin for more on this and thousands of other
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Get in test with technology with text stuff from how
stuff works dot com. Hey the everyone, and welcome to
tech Stuff. I'm Jonathan Strickland and I'm Lauren Bolkum. And
today we're going to respond to a listener request. This
comes to us from Daniels via Facebook. Yes, he said, Hi, guys,
(00:24):
I've just listened to your episodes about Tesla. I wonder
how would fully electric cars like Tesla compete with hydrogen
based cars like becoming Toyota model which is cheaper. Tesla
is the only successful fully electric car so far. Isn't
this a sign that this is not the right direction
for Toyota to bet on hydrogen? It would be nice
at at some point you could cover the hydrogen car
(00:46):
and compare them with the electric ones. So we're gonna
do that, but we're gonna go even further. We're going
to describe everything about hydrogen and how it's being used
in multiple ways. Yeah, because hydrogen is a really simple
element with a huge amount of potential. Simplest element in
the universe. One proton, one electron, That is it. Get
yourself a proton, get yourself electron, and let them make friends.
(01:08):
You've got hydrogen. So it's also the most abundant element
in the universe. It's it's everywhere. This is the stuff
that the Sun fuses into helium at a temperature of
millions of degrees. Yeah, we had to put that in there.
Uh yeah, So so it's technically fueling well everything, I
suppose once you've got it working in the sun. Yeah. Yeah,
(01:29):
pretty much everything on Earth life as we know it
exists because of hydrogen being built into helium in the sun.
There are some exceptions, like you could look at some
extreme of files in Earth where they're living off chemicals
that are being produced by uh, the gases and things
being released in deep undersea fissures. But most of life,
(01:53):
the vast majority of it, depends at least in some
part on light yes, and hydrogen. Although we have only
known about its existence as an element for a relatively
short period of time, has has been kind of theorized about.
There's been people who have worked with what they called like,
they had various words for it, inflammable air being a
(02:15):
popular one, because they realized, hey, there's this stuff that
when you do things to other things happens, and then
if you put a fire near it, it blows up
right inflammable mean inflammable meaning inflammable, Yes, exactly able to
be set fire to. Right, And in this case, it's
not just that it burns, it's exclusive. So the word
hydrogen is actually combination of two words from Greek hydro
(02:38):
and genus, which together mean water forming. And once you
know about hydrogen and you know what water is, it's
H two O makes perfect sense. You gotta have hydrogen
or you don't have water. Of course, if you don't
have oxygen, you still don't have water. And while this
hydrogen stuff is everywhere, I mean, it's the most abundant
element in the universe, it isn't often found on it's lonesome.
(03:03):
That's because it makes friends really easily. Yeah, it's it's
kind of like the opposite of me. It actually gets
real buddy buddy really fast, and and and the buddies
like it. So I got half that equation. But anyway,
hydrogen forms compounds readily, right, You get compounds and all
sorts of stuff. You got water being a big example.
At hydrogen bonds with oxygen. You have water, you have
(03:26):
lots of hydrocarbons, you've got um. You even have occlusion,
which is molecular condensation inside igneous rocks. The point is
is that it's bound up with other stuff. It's not
just out there on its own. So if we want
to harvest hydrogen to use as fuel, you gotta think
a little outside the box. You can't just go to
(03:47):
the hydrogen store by it. Yeah, it doesn't grow on
any hydrogen trees. Now you have to you have to
do something to something else generally in order to get
some of it exactly, which means you've got to expend
energy in order to get this fuel. And that's one
of the things that's really important about any sort of fuel.
It's not just hydrogen. We're talking about any kind of
fuel where you're planning on getting energy out. If it
(04:08):
requires you to put more energy into it to get
the fuel, then you're getting as a benefit of the fuel.
It's a losing proposition, right. Although there are lots of
different ways to to produce hydrogen UM. You can use
light to split water molecules, you can gasify biomass waste,
you can even just kind of let a bunch of
microbes do the work for you as part of their
(04:28):
normal metabolism. UM, but one of the most popular ones
right now anyway, what accounts for about of the hydrogen
in the United States. Is something called reforming, in which
carbon based fuels like natural gas typically methane, are reacted
with steam at high pressures and temperatures. That produces hydrogen,
a little bit of carbon dioxide, and carbon monoxide, that
(04:48):
last of which is then reacted to produce more hydrogen
and carbon dioxide. Um. You will note that that both
of these do produce greenhouse gases, so it's a little
bit less friendly than something like electron lysis, although you
have to pump a whole lot of energy into electrolysis.
We'll talk a little bit more about that later. Um. Overall,
reforming does have the potential to overall reduce our carbon
(05:10):
footprint if it could provide the hydrogen for like a
whole fleet of fuel cell vehicles. Right. That's one of
the big things about hydrogen. We'll talk about that in
just a second, about how it does not give off
greenhouse gases in ideal cases. Uh. Keep in mind we're
talking ideal cases because it all depends on how you're
using the hydrogen. So, uh yeah, I also read that
(05:32):
there have been some studies of algae that give off hydrogen,
which you know, if we were ever able to make
an algae farm that was efficient enough, that would be
a great way. But there are a lot of people
who question whether or that that's practical. It may not
ever be something that generates enough hydrogen for it to
be worth the amount of effort it would take. Again
that sort of energy losing proposition night. So some other
(05:56):
things about hydrogen. It has a low ignition energy. That
means you don't have to apply a lot of energy
to it to get it to ignite. That makes sense,
you know, it doesn't take much to set it on
fire essentially, is what we're talking about here. It actually
requires an order of magnitude less energy to ignite hydrogen
than it does to ignite gasoline. Yeah, so that means
(06:17):
gasoline is pretty pretty flammable, pretty dar inflammable. Yeah, kids,
let's not play with the stuff at home, shall we,
or anywhere else for that matter. Let's treat it like
serious business. But it's both a good and bad thing,
right Because the hydrogen stance it's easy to ignite, means
that you can easily implement that in an engine. Uh,
it does it very efficiently. You don't have to spend
(06:38):
a lot of energy to make it do what you
want it to do. On the other hand, because it
has such a low ignition point, it's also a challenge
engineering wise, because if your engine gets hot enough, the
engine itself could cause the hydrogen to ignite prematurely before
it gets into the operative fits right, and then it
could make everything inoperative. You would get inoperative right quick.
(07:00):
So that's you know that there's a there's a good
and bad side of this. If you can engineer your
way around it, it can eventually be a benefit. Oh sure,
it technically has the highest energy output by weight of
any fuel um though it is the lightest elements, so
that's kind of yeah. You kind of have to get
a lot of it together too. So it's because it's
it's not dense, you know, which is something else will
(07:22):
chat about. So one of the reasons why we're even
talking about hydrogen, one of the big ones, it's what
we alluded to earlier, is the fact that the combustion
is really clean, particularly if you're using hydrogen and pure
oxygen as the mixture that goes into your engine, all right,
because then your output is going to be just energy
(07:43):
and water. Yep, you get energy in the form of
the power that you generate and some heat because of
course we don't have any perfect systems where we don't
lose some energy in the form of heat. But yeah,
the only other thing you get is water. You don't
get anything else. And this is when I when I
talk about mixtures, we'll talk about combustion in gen's a
little later too. This is a typical thing where you
mix together some fuel and some air to go into
(08:05):
a combustion engine. Same sort of thing with hydrogen. You're
not putting just pure hydrogen and you're mixing it with
some form of air, in this case oxygen. However, that
being said, most hydrogen combustion engines are not using pure
oxygen to mix together to make the combustible mixture. They're
using air. So air has stuff in it besides oxygen.
(08:28):
In fact, the primary component of our atmosphere is not oxygen.
It's nitrogen. So one of the byproducts you get with
using a hydrogen combustion engine that uses air is that
you get some nitrous oxides. Nitrogen oxides, I should say,
not nitrous oxides, which would be hilarious until you suffocated,
but nitrogen oxides. Uh, that's a that's a pollutant. You
(08:50):
don't want that UM and you can also get carbon
monoxide and carbon dioxide if you get some oil seeping
into the combustion chambers because uh, oxygen does. Our our
atmosphere doesn't have like tons of carbon in it, but
oil does. So there are chances of having in a
hydrogen combustion engine this kind of pollutants. You can get
(09:11):
around that if you wanted to go with fuel cells,
and we'll talk about those two. So the amount of
power that a hydrogen engine can generate is dependent upon
a few different things. It depends upon the mix of
air and fuel and how that fuel is injected into
those combustion chambers in your engine. So, theoretically, the maximum
(09:32):
output of a hydrogen based combustion engine using a pre
mixed method, this is where you have like a carburetor
type situation that is mixing air and fuel together and
then it goes into the combustion chamber. Uh. If you're
using that method, theoretically your maximum output is about eight
of the power generated in a comparable gasoline engine. So
(09:55):
not as powerful, right, But if you were to take
a direct in injection approach, which mixes the fuel and
air after the intake valve in the combustion chamber closes.
Then the hydrogen based engine can theoretically produce fift more
power than a gasoline engine, So you kind of have
a less in one way or percent more the other way. Um, However,
(10:20):
this is all based upon the idea that you're using
exactly the amount of air you need to complete combustion.
So you're using just the right mixture of air and
just the right mixture of hydrogen. But the downside of
that is that you also produce more pollutants that way, right, Although, okay,
so so this is a complicated issue and the numbers
(10:40):
on it are always going to be rough. But when
you're talking about fuel efficiency, you you need to use
more gasoline in order to make an engine do the
same amount of work than you would hydrogen. Yeah, exactly,
Like you have this note about gasoline vehicles operating at
around efficiency. What that means is that of all the
(11:03):
energy that's being generated is actually going to doing the
thing you needed to do, the other is being lost
in some way or another. Sure you usually due to
heat loss. Yeah, that's the big one, especially with engines.
I mean, engines generate lots and lots of heat. The
the ideal of a fuel cell vehicle using hydrogen, it's
closer to sixty percent efficiency um for For the record,
(11:24):
electric cars may manage somewhere between twenty five and sixty
percent fuel efficiency depending on where you get the electricity
to recharge that battery. Right, And and if you want
to be really technical, a fuel cell vehicle is kind
of a subset of electric vehicles. It's just that it's
an electric vehicle that you are refueling with hydrogen rather
than a closed battery system exactly. So yeah, it's a
(11:48):
great point, and that's another thing that we have to
take into consideration. Now. Typically, if if we're talking about
you know, I just mentioned about having just enough air
and fuel to complete combustion, and you get that that
crazy near of a gasoline power engine, but you produce
more more pollutants as well. Usually we're not using exactly
(12:08):
the amount of air because we want to cut back
on those pollutants. One of the big reasons we want
to use hydrogen is the too cut back on pollutants.
So if we're producing more pollutants by making it really efficient,
then we're like, well, we just kind of traded off
that was a lot of money to not do any
better exactly. So what we tend to see our engines
that use about twice as much air as is actually
(12:30):
required to complete combustion. Now, this reduces pollution, but it
also reduces the output of the engine. Yeah, sad trombone. Okay,
so these are just tradeoffs. This is the way the
real world works. We have to sit there and say, Okay,
there's not a magic solution that is going to solve
all the problems equally, we have to start making tradeoffs.
This is a pretty good one because you can you
(12:51):
can enlarge the engine size and make up for a
lot of it. Right, So if you make the hydrogen
based engine larger than a gasoline based engine, you can
kind of make up this this loss. Now that does,
of course, mean you have to redesign vehicles around a
larger engine. So I mean it's you know, it's those
domino effects. Right. You could also include what's called a
turbo charger or supercharger, and you might wonder, hey, how
(13:12):
did those work? We'll do another episode because it's already
going to be a long one for this one, So
we can't. We can't sit there and uh and jump
into that and hope to make it out alive, because
no will kill us. The protective barrier is only so strong. Okay. So,
like we said, hydrogen not very dense. When you've got
one proton and one electron, you don't expect it to
(13:32):
be Nope, So it's uh, room temperature is a gas.
Getting enough hydrogen together in one place to be useful
as a fuel takes a lot of work, and some
of the easiest ways of storing it, like in extremely
cold liquid form, aren't really practical for toting around in
a consumer motor vehicle that might not want to incorporate
a complex cooling system due to you know, cost and
(13:54):
weight and space issues. So usually we end up having
to figure out a way of pressurizing it under hence
amounts of pressure. Now that of course creates another safety issue.
Anytime you have a compressed gas, it's under a lot
of pressure. If you rupture that containment unit in some way, yeah,
that's and then at on top of that that, the
gas itself is inflammable, and you've got the potential for really,
(14:17):
really a bad day, which is why a lot of
companies that have looked into using hydrogen as a fuel
in one way or another, whether as a combustion engine
fuel or whether as a fuel sell fuel. Have put
in a lot of research and development in safety for
these hydrogen canisters or you know else. They will never
be able to market it because it would just be
(14:37):
too dangerous. Although some people argue that, I mean, gasoline
tanks being driven around are also that's a it's a
good point, it's a fair point. I mean, we're we've
been relying on a technology that has a an inflammable
fuel for more than a century. And you know, although
it's not quite as dangerous as movies make it out
to be. I mean, it's not that where where you
(14:58):
you your car, your are sways a bed and then explodes. Yeah.
So if Michael Bay made cars, no one would ever
get in them. But fortunately, as far as I know,
he has not made one. Uh So, uh yeah, we've
we've been making use of this hydrogen for a long time.
And in fact, we, like Lauren said, we were kind
of playing with this stuff before we even had any
(15:20):
idea of what it was. We didn't really know about
elements or even gases. So we're gonna take you on
a historical journey and along this journey will be explaining
how some of this stuff works, because we figured we'd
kind of incorporate both the history and the technical stuff
all together. It's an experiment. Now before we jump into
(15:41):
the way Back Machine, because I know all you guys
have been missing it, Laurence looking at me terrified. Yeah, Lauren,
that's what that big thing is in the corner that
we haven't been using. It's all dusty and stuff. Turns
out it wasn't in Mongolia. It was just in a
supply closet. So we're gonna get in that in a second.
But before we do that, let's take a quick break
to thank our sponsor. Okay, so we're back and we're
(16:01):
ready to get into the way Back Machine, which I
know is going to sound absolutely amazing. I can't believe
all the bells and whistles that indicate to you that
we've actually traveled back in time, because in truth, it's silent.
But we have to give you some you know, way
of knowing that that's what's happened. Oh yeah, otherwise it's
not it's not fun radio trauma exactly. So let's let's
just go ahead and get in. Now. Over here, we've
(16:21):
got the dial, which I'm going to set back to
uh early seventeenth century. You know, I don't know how
it knows where I wanted to go. It just does.
But when is really tricky. All right, let's just hit
the button. Here, here we are. It's a glorious and
(16:44):
smelly So I want to introduce you to Johann Baptista
van Helmont, who is the first person to describe hydrogen
as a gas, and only that, he's the first person
to come up with the word gas to describe aubstances
that have the qualities of a gas. He was thinking
of stuff that is heavier than air or misty, or
(17:06):
he was just trying to come up with like a
collective noun to call this stuff. He proposed gas, and
it stuck. So he goes on to make some more
observations which in a few decades get picked up by
another person, a philosopher, a natural philosopher, and we'll chat
about him. His name is Robert Boyle. So between Robert
Boyle and Johan we have in six fifty stead or
(17:29):
Turque with the man may yearn which I know I've
absolutely butchered based Swiss, so so I'm sure he's fine.
With it. Yeah, they the Swiss have a beautiful way
with words that escapes the physical contortions my mouth can
go through. So uh. But he produced hydrogen and he
called it inflammable air, by combining iron with sulfuric acid. Now,
(17:53):
hydrogen is found in a lot of different compounds, including
all the acids, So if you are able to come
find it with other stuff, usually that that reaction you
get by introducing an element into acid will release the
hydrogen exactly. Now seventy one we get to that Irish
philosopher I had mentioned, Robert Boyle. Now he experimented with
(18:14):
producing hydrogen as well, and he was of the New
Philosophy movement. This was a really interesting movement. It combined
observations and experimentation with logical thinking to understand the world
around him. So this is sort of a proto scientist movement.
It's before we really had the formal sciences we This
is when alchemy was starting to transform into chemistry. Right.
(18:38):
We had people who had made observations and calculations on
things like physics, but it's now starting to actually take
form into the sciences as we know them today. So
he produced hydrogen by combining iron and various acids, and uh,
that's how he started to take a look at this
hydrogen gas. And he was he was pretty pretty intelligent.
(18:58):
He noticed that gass volume varies inversely with pressure, hence
Boil's law. Yeah, we named it after after him. He
also believed in alchemy and transmutation, so he didn't get
everything right. Lots of people today still believe in alchemy
and transmutation, so what we'll leave that for now. But yes, Boil,
he did a lot of work, and a lot of
(19:20):
his work inspired other people. So over the next several decades,
lots of different philosophers and then later chemists and scientists
began to experiment with hydrogen gas. They didn't really give
it a name yet, but they knew that the stuff
would blow up if you exposed it to flame, so
they began to really study it further until we get
(19:42):
to seventeen sixty six, and now we get to go
to England, because that's where Henry Cavendish was and he
was the first to recognize hydrogen as a distinct substance,
and he was also the first to describe the composition
of water. You know, before that everyone just said it's
wet and if they get cold, it gets hard. That's
that was pretty much it. If he gets really hot,
(20:04):
it gets cloudy. That's, you know, just that's where we
were with science until Cavendish came along. I might be
exaggerating a little, but he absolutely loved learning for learning sake.
He wasn't actually a scientist per se, though, was he. No,
not really, I mean he was, He was more like
just obsessed. He was one of the wealthiest men in
(20:25):
all of Europe. He had inherited a crazy sum of money,
and he chose to live very frugally in London. He
wasn't interested in the trappings of wealth. He wasn't interested
in ostentation. He was actually, according to one thing I read,
the only reason we even have a sketch of him
is because an artist surreptitiously drew one while at a gathering,
(20:48):
a small private gathering at his house. Because he didn't
he didn't, you know, want, He didn't. He didn't sit
for a portrait. He was super introvert, super introvert, and
he didn't really publish most of his work. He published
some of it, but not all of it, because he
wasn't really interested in that. He know, he just wanted
to know how the world works. He was just fascinated
with learning. He wasn't not necessarily as fascinated with teaching,
(21:09):
but he was definitely fascinated with learning. I want someone
to make a awkward action here, a movie about this guy. Yeah.
I have a feeling that we'd have to invent a
lot of of facts about his life, which makes it
even better. Yeah, that's what movies generally do. Anyway, I'd
be less offended if I knew less about the history
of the actual guy. So yeah, I think Henry Cavendish,
(21:29):
Supervillain would be an awesome movie. So I'll get to
work on that. Yes, all right. Then we moved to
seventeen eighty three, when Jacques Charles makes his first flight
in his balloon La Charliere, which used hydrogen as it's
a lifting agent because hydrogen is lighter than atmosphere, so
if you get enough of it together, the bulliancy will
counteract gravity and then you'll float right off the ground,
(21:51):
go up. Yeah. Meanwhile, in eighteen hundred, William Nicholson and
Anthony Carlyle described the process of electrolysis, in which electricity
is applied to water to break its molecules down into
their constituents, being oxygen and hydrogen. This will become important later. Yeah,
but just understanding that. Hey, this process where hydrogen and
oxygen gets together to make water is reversible if you
(22:11):
just pour energy into it. That's pretty cool. Eighteen or
six we have Francois Isazac de Rivaz, a Swiss inventor.
He built the de Revase engine. And again I apologize
if I'm absolutely butchering that, but this was the first
internal combustion engine to use hydrogen and oxygen as a fuel.
It would be nearly sixty five years before you get
(22:33):
the first gas lean powered internal combustion engine. So actually,
hydrogen combustible engines predate gas yeah by quite a bit.
So yeah, we've talked a lot about how electric cars
are older than you think, So are hydrogen combustion engine cars.
That's kind of cool. Then in eighteen twenty we have
the Reverend W. Cecil who writes a paper and I
(22:55):
love this title. Here we go on the application of
hydrogen gas to produce a moving power and machinery, with
a description of an engine which is moved by pressure
of the atmosphere upon a vacuum caused by explosions of
hydrogen gas and atmospheric air. I think it's a sink
pretty much. You've read the whole article just by the title.
But yeah, he he proposed an engine using hydrogen as
(23:18):
the combustible material. But it's a different style of combustion
engine than what we see today. So his design involved
having a chamber that you would fill with hydrogen plus
regular old air, and it would be connected to a
valve so that you could insert this stuff but it
wouldn't escape back out. Uh. And then the you would
(23:42):
put a flame in there, and then you have the
valve switched so it would allow it to escape again. Right,
you put the flame in, This causes the gas to
expand rapidly. Uh. And normally in our combustion engines we
used as a pushing force, but at this case, the
the piston in this chamber is all the way out already,
so it can't be pushed further out, so he's not
(24:03):
using as a pushing force. Instead. Once that guest starts
to cool and is released, it starts to shrink down.
It's not and he's not letting more air in there
to replace it, and the valve is closed. So it's
pulling the piston back in in that vacuum that's created
in the chamber exactly. It's a partial vacuum and imperfect vacuum,
and that creates an area of low pressure. That low
pressure pulls on the piston, which then moves to the
(24:26):
other end of the combustion chamber. So you're using this
vacuum engine. Now it worked, but uh, it's not really practical.
So this particular design wasn't widely implemented, but it does
in fact work. The principles are all sound. So then
you had a lot more experimentation following with hydrogen, which
(24:48):
included everything from inventors to chemists to physicists and regular
old crazy people, and all of this is leading up
to some pretty cool stuff, including the first fuel cell.
But here's the thing, guys, there's a lot more to
cover here. We've got fuel cells to talk about, we
have other combustion engine to talk about. We've got exactly
(25:11):
how hydrogen is going to be used today, how it's
how it's being used right now, and how it will
be used in the future. And in fact, it's so
much stuff we've decided we're gonna split this sucker up,
we're gonna do a second episode so we can really
do this justice and dig in here. So, guys, since
we're splitting this up, it's now time for me to
ask you that special question. Hey, do you have something
(25:32):
he wants to talk about? Let us know, because if
you don't, we're just gonna keep talking about whatever we
want to talk about, which may or may not be
what you want to hear. So let us know by
sending us an email. A lot of you have responded
already when we asked if you wanted to hear more
about how to truly surf the web as anonymously and
as secure as you possibly can. We've heard you, We've
(25:54):
added it to our list, and we're going to be
doing that episode. But if you have another idea, send
it in let us know email addresses, tech stuff at
Discovery dot com, or drop us a line on Facebook, Twitter,
or Tumbler. Our handle at all three of those is
text stuff hs W. And if you're not following us,
you should probably do that because Lauren and I both
(26:16):
share lots of stuff you never hear on the podcasts
that are either amazing, entertaining or whackadoodle weird. So send
in your ideas and we will talk to you you again.
Really Zin for more on this and thousands of other
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