10 Things I Hate About You with Laci Mosley

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the dol Cast, the questions asked if movies have
women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands?
Do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef invest start changing
it with the Bechdel Cast. Hello and welcome to the
Bachtel Cast. My name is Caitlin Darante, my name is
Jimmy Loftus, and here we are doing this really silly

(00:23):
beat again for the second episode in a row. I
can't waiting to hear how much people fucking hate it.
I think whenever we do, Joseph Gordon limit movie, even
though he has Australian So we here on the Bechtel
Cast talk about the portrayal of women in movies. We
use the Bechtel test as a jumping off point to

(00:46):
initiate a larger conversation about the representation of women. Attack.
It is a test that you apply to a movie.
It requires that a movie has two named female identifying characters.
They have to speak to each other, and that conversation
couldnot be about men. Very few movies past this very

(01:11):
simple test that doesn't sound that hard to pass. But
the thing is that movies hate women, and movies don't
like women to be in them. Can we baite a
test it really quick? Yeah? Hey, Caitlin, Hey Jamie. They
changed the name of my favorite donut. What they change
the name of my favorite donut and Duncan Donuts from
the vanilla cream donut to Life is a Party. So

(01:32):
every time I want to get my favorite donut, I
had to go in and be like, I'll have one.
Life is a Party, and the person working there always laughs.
It sucks and that passed the Bechtel tests. It sure does.
I'm sorry that happened to you. Carry about your tragically
three mornings in around. I just have to say, and
I've tried this morning to be like I have a

(01:54):
vanilla creme donut, and they're like which one. It's like,
Life is a Party. Unbelievable. The chocolate cream donuts name unchanged.
I don't understand what the whole anyways, m wow, hey
quick plug. At the top of the show, if you
live in the Los Angeles area, yes, so do I.

(02:17):
And that's why We're going to be doing a live
show in Los Angeles on September at nine pm at
The Ruby, which is a really cool comedy venue. We
are really excited for it. We've been done a live
show in l A in a while, and we are
covering Edwards Scissor Hands with one of my favorite people

(02:38):
in l A. In the first time guest to the podcast,
Maggie may Fish, who I'm especially excited to have on
for this particular episode because she recently did this amazing
video essay about the work of Tim Burton and how
it is spoiler alert, toxic and racist. Whoopsies. Anyways, it's
gonna be a fun show, super fun, So don't forget

(02:58):
September at nine pm in Los Angeles at the Ruby.
For tickets, go to bectel cast dot com, click on
the live appearances tab. There's a link there, and come
to the show. And we're so excited to meet you.
Let's talk about a movie. And even before we do that,

(03:20):
let's introduce the guests that we have today with us.
She is wonderful. She is an actor, she is a comedian.
Lacy Mosley, Hey, thank you. Oh you know I've done
just that. I have a master's degree in intros, so
I got this. Welcome Thanks for coming, thank you for

(03:41):
having me, Thank you for bringing us the movie we're
talking about today. Popular request, people ask for it a lot.
We're talking ten things I Hate about you? So, Lacy,
what is your history your relationship with ten Things I
Hate about you? Um? Our relationship with this movie is
honestly a con me. It cond me as a child
because I wasn't in high school when this came out.

(04:03):
I think I was pretty young, and I thought that
I was gonna get to high school and everybody was
gonna be twenty eight with a connecting beer and finest fun.
And I was ready. My little loins were ready. And
then I got there and I was like, y'all, look corny,
y'all cornballs. Like nobody was fine, every sweating nobody, but
nobody was heath Ledger, nobody. No one was close at all.

(04:27):
No one was paying someone else to take you out
on dates exactly. We have no heath Ledger, no heat
bar even. And it wasn't all activities activity. I never
went pay balling. I was never nobody's like or river. Right.
A date was like, Oh, we're gonna go to the
Chick fil a. We're literally going to the nearest fast food. Right,

(04:50):
We're sitting there and being excited that our parents let
us out of the house Like that was it. It
was so disappointing. So sorry, this does really prep you
for a very fake gas version of high school but
simply does not happen. Jamie, what's your relationship? Your history?
Saw it yesterday? I saw yesterday. Like most movies we've covered,

(05:14):
I was like, I'll get around to this one, but
I didn't. I think part of the reason I avoided
it was because I just didn't grow up watching movies
that much, and so I didn't know much about this
movie until he let heard already died, and I'm like, oh, man,
if this movie sucks, then I'll think less of him
and he can't redeem himself in my eyes, which is
what was being dead and all deceased. Maybe I'll just

(05:39):
not watch it, which is kind of like backwards. To
honor him, I'm going to disengage from his working time,
give him the chance to not fail in my eyes.
I also used to have a thing with not like
Julia Stiles. Was that like a thing or was that
just me being rude? I don't really know. I don't

(05:59):
remember how people viewed her because she this was kind
of her like prime and then listen like, well she
wasn't saved the last dance, which I haven't seen him forever.
And then the people enjoyed her. We enjoyed Julia. Jes yes,
I have to save the last dance. We were like,
you're all right, Julia, you missed it. I do appreciate
her wrapping the A cups. Uh, you know, it's nice

(06:23):
to see someone with A cups get laid. That's always good. Yeah, yeah,
it's always good felt seen. Now think about it, Julia
really doesn't like her whole body and face is very regulars. Yeah,
like she's not. It's kind. It's really dope to say that,
just like you don't have to have the you know
of a garbage breasts or j low booty to be

(06:44):
in a movie and get kissed on by heath led
So that's nice. It's good to I like living in
the fantasy world where it's like, no heath let her
lives for a cups, Like you're not all engage with
that fantasy shirt. Yeah, my stay with this movie. It
came out in nine. I was thirteen, so I was

(07:04):
like the right age to be like watching this movie,
like gobbling it up. I think I saw it right
around the time that it came out. But I didn't
like this wasn't a movie that I like watched over
and over or anything like that. I saw it probably
twice in my teenage years. I was too busy being like,
I'm a cool girl who watches Indiana Jones every day.
I don't have time for this like high school movie stuff. Um,

(07:29):
I know it's one of those cool girls who weren't
like the other girls, a little different from the other girls.
You know what, Sorry, everybody, but that is I thought
I was. I thought I was that girl too, And
like I I kind of like shop at Hot Topics sometimes,
like they're like, like you mean, like every other Stephen

(07:50):
Masseroni worked at Hot Topic and he was cute. I
just went in there to look at naked stuff. Yeah,
they had time. They had a lot of soft porn
and hot time. I don't make a birthday cars at times,
we're just going to get three. I have Cinemax. So

(08:12):
I saw this a couple of times as a teenager
and then didn't revisit it until the other day. And
I've watched this movie three times in a row since then.
I'm gonna I like this movie. I didn't think that
I did, but after having me, it's like so much
funnier than I remembered. It's like, man, I mean, it's

(08:33):
oh god, there's a lot to unpack. There's a lot
for us to discuss. But I have a fondness for
this movie that I was not expecting to have. There's like,
this is one of these movies where I think if
I saw it they were like right time. If I
had seen it like high school time, I would love it.
But I don't know. I guess fine, And it's like
all these like Shakespeare and adaptations are just like You're like, yeah,

(08:54):
that's probably not going to be that good for women.
Chances are it was written originally in fifteen What a
fucking whatever. Yeah, I'm a genius. It has been so
many She's the Man, which which is on our list
of things to cover. Hopefully we get to it soon,
ran King. But this is Taming of the Shrew, right, Yeah.

(09:15):
And I have not read the Taming of the Shrew,
but I did read the first few paragraphs of the
Wikipedia article about it. So I'm basically a scholar who
master's degree. I have a master's degree in specifically the
Wikipedia article of the Taming of the True. I just
want to read an excerpt from it where it basically
just describes the plot of that play. The main plot

(09:40):
depicts the courtship of Petruccio and Katharina the headstrong, obdurate shrew. Initially, initially,
Katharina is an unwilling participant in the relationship. Hot However,
this is a comedy, right, this is his comedy. This

(10:00):
is not a horrid movie. This is a comedy. However,
Petruccio quote unquote tames her with various psychological torments, such
as keeping her from eating and drinking until she becomes
a desirable, compliant, and obedient bride. Oh my god, that

(10:23):
is it's the happy ending. Have either of you read
the play not for a long time years ago? Yeah,
like in high school. It's so weird that they would
let high school girls read that play of like and
this is the greatest ride of old time. And you're like,
he's starving her and killing her and it's a comedy.

(10:45):
Well that's horrifying. That's good to hear. So the movie
a movie seems to leave some of that, like you know,
torture behind and it takes a little bit of a
different direction. So have changed little bit, Like now in
back the director's cut has Julia Stile starving like she

(11:06):
started with d cups and then he lunch starved her.
At least it's not like the Shakespeare adaptation, like with this,
what's like the balls lumin Isn't he Australian? Yes? He
did like Romeo plus Juliette, and it was like, it's
exactly Romeo and Juliette, but they're wearing Hawaiian shirts for

(11:26):
some reason. You're just like, Okay, I guess yeah, i
mean Shakespeare the adaptations of Shakespeare throughout the ages they're
lion King is great. Nel Gibson's in a Hamlet movie. Whatever.
So so the movie Ten Things I Hate About You
takes this basic concept of having to tame a shrew,

(11:48):
and you know, takes it takes in a little bit
different of her direct She so beause she just wants
to think on her own, live her own life. He
was like, she can read, don't give her exactly, so
I'll do. The recap of the movie takes place in
a high school in the Greater Seattle area. Yeah, real

(12:10):
Frasier vibes. At the top of this movie, You're like,
oh space, Suddenly, I'm like Niles where are you okay?
So we meet Cat. That's Julia Styles character. Um. She
is a feminist, killed joy who hates everyone. She's a senior,
I think in high school. Her sister, Bianca, who is

(12:33):
a sophomore, is is played by the girl who played
Alex Mack on Nicolo. Oh yeah, I don't watch that
show together. Yeah a little girl detective. So Bianca is
a sophomore. She is popular and she wants to date boys.
Their dad does not want either of them to date
anyone because he does not like women to have agency

(12:55):
or autonomy over their bodies. Their dad is also played
by the same guy who plays the Stylist and the
Princess Diary is Paolo Putinesca. And their mom's dead, right,
their mom, she seems like she left. She did maybe
they like she died, but then later they say she left.
I'm not sure. I think she left that I think

(13:17):
no explanation provided because he was like that scene where
Alex Mack is wearing the pearls and Julia Styles is like,
why are you wearing those pearls and they're like she's
not coming back, which I was like, oh so she right,
Like no, she just didn't like you. Like, I don't know,
she just abandoned though I don't know she doesn't want
to come back and left all of her drink its right,

(13:39):
like she just left in the night stuff back, Like
what's she could have like a beeper or something. I
don't know. Either way, they're they're kind of Disney Princess
because they don't have a momp. Yeah, their dad comes
up with the rule that if kat who hates everyone,
if she dates, then Bianca is allowed to date. Old

(14:00):
way to like communicate to your own daughter that you
find her to be unfuckable. It's like this, which I'll
never get a man, So my hot daughter that I
have a crush on can't go on dates either. Get
your chastity belts on, girls, put that bread down. Charlity.

(14:21):
Chastity is the name of the Gabrielle Union's character. Yeah,
so that's fun time boy. She was not Chase. She
is not like Chastity. And then what's Bianca. I'm gonna
keep calling her Alex Mack. But yeah, like there, their
characters are all over the place where when you meet
them they're like, oh, they're so dumb they can barely walk,

(14:44):
but then later they're like, no, we're smart and but
we just want to have sex, which I like way better,
but there's still some moments where they're like, we're too
dumb to live. They're beautiful and evil and its beautiful
women are oh goodness, okay. So then, um Cameron, that

(15:04):
is Joseph Gordon Lovett's character. He wants to date Bianca
and she tells him of this new development where she
can date if her sister kept if she finds a date. Meanwhile,
there's a character named Joey Donner who also wants to
date Bianca, and Bianca wants to date Joey right back. Oh,
Joey's the hot guy who always has a fifty dollar

(15:27):
bill on him. He's so rich and so hot. You've
got a Crisp fifty in his back pocket and that's
a lot of money in high school. Yeah, also in
the ninety nine inflation exactly. Um So Cameron and his
friend Michael, who looks forty and it's distracting and really

(15:47):
does grown nast man. He's on his second marriage. He
panted house support before lunch and they're like, what do
you know, I gotta go see my wife. Like he's
grown as fuck. It's like for the first two seas,
I genuinely thought Joseph Gordon Levitt's friend was his guidance
cow fire, Like, why is this guidance counselor hanging out

(16:08):
with a student so much? And he's like, I'm fourteen.
I'm like, no, you are good to drive, like the duy.
This is a David Krumholtz. But sorry, David look old.
So then so Cameron and Michael identify this guy, Patrick

(16:31):
Heath Ledgers. They're like, oh, this Patrick guy, he might
be a good candidate for someone to date Cat. Now
Patrick is a bad boy and he is not into
this idea. So Cameron's like, oh, well, maybe we could
pay him to date Cat. And here's where the story
gets a little fun, where he's like, well, I'm I'm
a little poor, so sure I'll invoke the oldest like

(16:55):
the eighties slash nineties classic trope of let's trick a
woman for the whole movie, not apologize, and then get
to be her boyfriend at the end. So many movies, Yeah,
refer back to our she's all that episode or more
information on that um so. But because Cameron doesn't have

(17:15):
any money, he needs a financial backer, so he goes
to Joey the like do she model boy his butt fifties?
Joe back pocket fifties, And He's like, oh, if you
pay Patrick to date Cat, then Joey you will have
a shot at dating Bianca. And Joey's like a great idea.

(17:37):
So then that all kind of unfolds where Patrick tries
to ask out Cat, she's not into it. Cameron and
Michael go to Patrick to help him out. There's like
a big party where like everyone starts to be like,
oh can Patrick? That party scene is exactly how I
thought high school parties were going to be, and never

(18:00):
very were. It was always Mark Joseph's basement, twelve kids
sharing one four logo and dry humping each other. Well,
I've played Mario party in the corner with my other
virgin friends. That's how my party today. I will have
to say that my high school parties were like those parties.

(18:23):
Really they got to go to like one but yeah,
where did you guy named Christo Print's house? I grew
up in Frisco, Texas, which is like north of Dallas,
and his dad was a cop and retrospectively, my black
as shouldn't have been over there, but his dad was
a cop and then he would like, let us drink
and use the hot to like party and yeah, so

(18:43):
I have gone to at least one high school party
did look like that. So those they do exist, they're
not they do exist. They do exist. We just were
never invited, we weren't called. We did exist mostly in
Mark Joseph's basement. Mark Joseph just had a jowful. It
was probably a party happened like no, no, no, no no no,
but my pacement gonna be lit tonight. Listen, I got

(19:05):
half an old English Okay, were all gonna drink SIPs
at the cap Oh gosh. So at that party, like
Cat and Patrick start to kind of bond a little bit,
and then Bianca and Cameron are like bonding a little bit,

(19:26):
and he gets a little kissed at the end of
the at the end of the night, and then I do,
that's my kiss sound I do? I cannot really sets
me off. I can't I do this a lot. I
can't take credit for it. That is my best friend
and friend of the cast, J. T. Taylor. That is

(19:48):
his joke that I have stolen from. There's the o
G slurpere. He started doing it every time straight people
kissed on TV or in movies, so then I just
started doing it anyway. So the teenagers are there, horny
and they're starting to get together and crazy. So then

(20:10):
Kat and Patrick's relationships starts to develop. But then at
prom of course, because there cannot be a teenage movie
that does not end in prom well, we'll get there,
she finds out that Joey had paid Patrick to date her,
so she gets mad, and then he buys her a guitar,

(20:32):
does not verbally apologize, bribes her, and then she's like, okay,
we can kiss. There's well there's in the very last scene,
she's in the middle of asking him for an apology,
and then he like, he just starts kissing her again,
like this is why people don't like you. Those lips

(20:56):
are full demanding respect and ship like just like ants
on her head, and you're like, oh man, that was
a funny example because the guys never apologize in these
kind of stories. But the thing that she was literally
in the middle of being like, you know, that wasn't
cool and yeah, and he was like, so he led
your you know, what's you gonna do demand but your respect?

(21:19):
Or are you going to make out? He led you
like me, what's your car? It's like he's like, the
guy's got ten years. He doesn't have time to be
apologizing to people. You just let him do anything new,

(21:40):
no apology, just kiss his situation everything. All right, Well
is the story. Let us take a quick break and
we will be back for the discussion. And we're back.

(22:06):
I have a question, yeah, because maybe I just wasn't
paying as close attention as I should have. But like
ten Things I Hate about You comes like the title
with the ten things comes up at the very end,
and Julia styles is shitty poem. But as I ever
mentioned before, then of like I wonder what ten things
I Hate about You are? No, that's I think the

(22:29):
only reference never set up. It's like if someone named
a movie like they named podcast, like this was the highlight,
this is the highlight, gonna do with the movie, but
this is highlight. So weird title. That was one thing
that I like Struth. That poem sucks so bad that
I'm like, yeah, a teenager could have written that poem.
It was authentic. Yeah, I wrote comparably shitty poems. But

(22:53):
it's weird because she spends the whole movie using such
like verbose language and like waxing poetic the whole time.
It's like, surely you could have used some of that vocabulary.
You have to like put that into your English projects.
These are things she goes a real basic love the teacher,

(23:15):
the black teacher, a black guy. He can only have
eight lines. He's just he's mean to her too. He's
mean to her. He's mean to her. He is like
their first scene together is like kind of cool though cool,
but at the end when she does the shitty poem,
it's like, who's gonna get up a dude eight poem?
And she's like, I will, like a bit so made

(23:42):
her at the end. That's why he's start out of
his class. I think at least twice. Yeah, he's never
every time she opens about these like I actually am
going to need you to your kissing me off. He's
equal opportunity mean though, because he also makes Joey taking
sunglasses off. Yeah yeah, he got his ass feet by
Alex Mack. So this might be a good place to
start that scene where she where Cat has a conversation

(24:04):
with Mr Morgan is his name? It like pretty well
sets up who she is as a character. So the
teachers like what everyone think of this. On Officer Rises,
there's a girl who's like, I loved it, He's so romantic,
and then Cat, I hate that girl. In an English class,
It's like, I love this man beat the ship out
of a woman every day of his life, but I
think we should give him a chance. Charles Murkowski is

(24:24):
very cool, Like that's pretty much what Cat says. She's
like romantic hemingway, he was an abusive, alcoholic misogynists who
squandered half his life hanging out with Picasso, trying to
nail his followers. And then Joey says, as opposed to
a better, self righteous hag who has no friends. So

(24:45):
Cat being like, yeah, you're um like the feminist kill joy,
and then Joey's like, no one likes you. Every time
she says something like vaguely feminist, people are like, who
is this reptile? Like, get her out of here. The
names that she gets called throughout the movie are a bitch,
a heinous bitch, a shrew, a wretch, a loser, antisocial,

(25:06):
a difficult woman, psycho, wretched, and I think I'm missing some.
Alison Janny is the one who calls her a hain
is bit is crazy. She's such a problematic guy didn't know.
She's way too involved. She stares at the kids genitals.
There's like a scene where she's like looking at Heath
Ledgers Dick because she's having a horny like fan fit

(25:29):
and erotic fan fiction. Super producer Sophie noticed last night
too that Alison Janny looks exactly like Dolores Umbridge from
the Harry Potter movies and ten things, and she's like
wearing like the pink suit and has like the bat haircut. Yeah,
but it's like funnier and and the oh and the pearls.

(25:49):
Yeah yeah, yeah she had, Yeah, she has that. She
invented the look before J K Rowling that notorious. What
a shrew, What a shrew, What a hainous bitch. So
the rest of that scene in the classroom. So then
Kat says, I guess in this society, being male and
an asshole makes you worthy of our time? What about
Sylvia Plath or Charlotte Bronte or Simone de Beauvoir And

(26:13):
Patrick our friend Heath Ledger burst into the classroom and
says what did I miss? And cats like the oppressive
patriarch or values the dictator education, and he's like good
and then he leaves again, which I love that joke.
He's like all caught up. And then Mr Morgan gives
this monologue where he's like, oh, you're a white girl

(26:36):
who's like rich and entitled. Maybe like next time you
go to a PTA meeting you could ask them why
they don't buy any books written by a black man. Like,
So this whole scene it has it all but everything
he Ledger enters in accents and then there is some
Heath just threw him in. Look for a second, people

(26:58):
are going to get tired. So there's like there's a
comment on like feminism and the patriarchy and misogyny, there's
comment on race. This whole scene basically establishes how much
of a like buzz kill Cat is because she has
like strong opinions and speaks out against the patriarchy. But
I do like that it's she's also kind of like

(27:19):
put in her place of being like a privileged white
girl by her teacher because it's like, at the end
of the day, like both of Bianca and Cat Julia styles,
they're both fucking rich and like a lot of the
reason they can even when Julia Styles's character like rebels
against the patriarchy. She does it in like kind of
privileged ways, like hitting Joey's car. It's like, Okay, that's cool,

(27:44):
and that's like putting a shitty dude in his place.
But also, you wouldn't do that if you didn't know
your dad was going to pay for the damages, Like
you can't just I don't know. Then you have to
physically hit his car with your face. You have to
fight your car. Too poor to actually hit your car
with my car because she wouldn't have a car, and

(28:05):
so she's like trying to fight your car, fight your
which would have been more entertaining. Yeah, I would love
to see Julia a car. So that's kind of the
setup of her character and how like everyone else used
her and the whole idea the movie is similar to

(28:25):
what it sounds like the Taming of the True is,
is that like she needs to be softened up, like
she's too bitchy, like no one likes her, so we
need Heath Ledger to come along and you know, show
her how to be nicer. She needs to be tricked by,
which is also such a fucking guy fantasy that like
you can pay a guy. This is more realistic for women. You.

(28:48):
I feel like you could probably more realistically pay a
woman to seduce a man than you could pay a
guy to seduce a woman. You're not good at it?
That fine? Really, Yeah you tricked me out of here,
which your magical dick like like, but men love that
notion that they think, they think it's real that they

(29:09):
could trick a woman into falling love. It's like that's
what we do to y'all every day we talk about
It's called your trophy wife. You know, your big ugly
ass wouldn't be with that. Fine, Ask any woman if
you handle day of money? She gone you there's yeah,
and like good for her? I don't know, great for her.
I'm just tired of like I mean, I guess some
jiggalows some there are some men out here who probably
could like slang it around and well there's a whole

(29:31):
industry of like pickup artist. Oh yeah, that works great,
doesn't it. They're always the game, Ugly. I have a
horrifying confession to make. Are you a pickup artist? I've
been magging you for years? No, I slept with someone
who had I like woke up and I was like,
oh my god, there's I'm I'm literally next to a

(29:51):
copy of the game with golden bossed pages. It was
a really nice copy of the game. It was an
anniversary edition of the game. Did you steal it and
burn it? No? I slipped out and I haven't been
heard from since. But it was what Oh god, pick
up artists? Bad bad, bad bad well, um so cat.

(30:12):
The other thing about her is that because she's like
a feminist, she's also like painted as this like frigid
woman who would never want a day like exactly, why
are there so many movies where it's a teen boy
tricking a teen girl and then he's the love interest.
It's like weird. I started this off as a con

(30:34):
but then I fell in love, like I caned by
my own con My heart conned me, and now I
got feelings. Now I got feelings, and lucky for you,
I got feelings right where You're like that, But that's
always how it's presented to He's like, well, now I
have feelings for you, so congratulations, you got me. I

(30:57):
was trying to get you and you got me, and
now you're stuck with me and you have to be
my girlfriend, even though I've already established I'm a fucking liar.
I think this is how men feel about falling in
love though, Like they're like, oh, I just came to fucking,
you know, steal money out of your purse. But but
then I said to love you girl. Those lips on

(31:17):
your face, they're good for more the sex pleasure. What
telling me I'm cool? You can push some real complimentary
words about me out of that face of yours? Right? Uh?
Not not? It doesn't bode well for Keith. There's a
Keith for Heath Jesus Christ r R I P. Clearly

(31:39):
I'm very in best leg Hidden brother sounds like a
conspiracy here. Keith is still laughing on the Island Way Leisure.

(32:01):
It's a real thing. You can't see the Keith Ledger
hologram show. That's now my new favorite expiracy period. The
ways he goes after like wooing her also so interesting
to me. Yeah he paid the band off, yeah right, yeah,

(32:22):
with Joey's CRISP fifty. So now he's he's back in,
you know, in the red like he's not making any
money anymore. Well yeah, yeah, so I guess you could
argue that because he doesn't actually take the money and
spend it on himself. That was apology. It's a wash.

(32:47):
I made no money off it. Is there that whole
scene where he like, I know that's like one of
the big like i'd seen that scene even though I've
never seen the movie with like the marching band, and yeah,
like but the way that scene unfolds is so weird
because it's the Julia Styles character. The second heath Ledger
starts to fringe her on the rag, she changes as

(33:08):
a person entirely as these movies go, where it's like
two weeks earlier, if he had pulled that thing with
the marching band, she would have been horrified and disgusted
by it. But after he, you know, like whatever, kisses
her one time, she's like, oh my gosh, this is
so nice. But then there's also like cops chasing heath Ledgers.

(33:29):
They're also like a professional stadium, like who'se high school
got a colosseum for them to do soccer practicing, Like
it was a big as we had like three bleachers
put together, like the sounds like lawn chairs. Like their
school looks like Hogwarts. It's really crazy. I was like,

(33:49):
where did they shoot this? And then like the p
A system is like real popping. I do love when
they spoof that scene though in Not Another Team Movie
looks like Jamie's got a good and like Jamie's girl,
Oh my gosh. Yeah. But the romantic pursuit in this

(34:12):
movie is problematic and much like so many other romantic
pursuits we see in movies, where like Patrick has to
wear her down, like she keeps saying no at first,
he keeps trying, he keeps pushing past the no. He
like shows up by her car and I'm parking lot.
He shows up at this club that she's at the show,
like he stops her and he's and like he's talking

(34:33):
about the game. Like this guy is negging her at
every turn. There's that towards the end where he follows
her to Guitar Center and Barnes and Noble, which is
such a high school day that it kills me, just
like we're two places I can just spend an hour
and for no fucking reason. But you know, he's like
following her and staring at her through a bookcase and

(34:56):
she says like you're so and he's like what charming
and she's like unwelcome And then he just negs her
the whole scene, and it just like reinforces that whole
like the more she says no, the more she secretly
means yes, which is like the most poisonous thought to
tell young men ever. And it also only really works
or is tolerable at least if the man is somewhat attractive.

(35:18):
My mom marks. My mom's a VPHR for a hospital
system in Texas, and she was like, attractive man never
get called in Aga. She's like, they ache and kiss
you on the cheek and you'd be like, okay, But
if you're ugly, well, Jamie, it's like your test test.
Put it in the colosseum scene. If Steve Bushemy comes

(35:38):
out of the and he's got a microphone neat scene,
can't take my eyes off of you and starts dancing.
He's killed, he's awful. Shoot him down, murder, murder him
in front of all the other high they just murder him. Yeah,
that scene does not pass test at all. But the

(36:00):
scene because it's heath Legend, because he's handsome and charming,
that big romantic gesture that he does like redeems him
in cat's eyes, which is like so bad. And then
he gets detention for that, and then she goes and
she like break him out of detention. In that scene
where like Jamie you were saying, she completely changes everything
we know about her. She changes her whole personality and

(36:21):
she becomes someone who will flash her her soccer coach
in order to distract him to get the guy that
has been stalking her to be able to sneak out
of detention so that they can go paddle boarding and
playing paintball. It's so very weird scene and everyone's like, oh,
go cat like like, finally you're doing what we want

(36:46):
you to do the whole time smile. A thrilling moment
for the A cups though, of like oh wow, to
think that people would want us to do that them
titty distracted him. Not a popular request? What not? A
not a popular request for the A cup crowd, So

(37:07):
in that way a small thrill. Also, that teacher character
was like what was going on with him? Where he
he was just like, I don't know what he was doing,
but he was so horny at the beginning of the
scene and then just grew horner, hornier and hornier, and
then stopped in his tracks for ten full seconds by

(37:27):
Julia Stiles A Cups. It was just very she she
was like assaulting him. She's like grabbing onto his arms. Oh,
your biceps are so big, and and then flashes like
and also that you would distract your teacher like this
you guy just talk to him like, hey, you know
to get my periodism, you know something else that's also

(37:48):
not feminist, but you gotta you gotta show him your
right and I guess he can't report you. I guess
he doesn't want to. He liked he was fully engaged. Yeah,
but that choice, like she goes from this like militant
feminist to like, yeah, I'll use my boobs to like
help out a guy who's been stalking me. Like it

(38:10):
just doesn't make any sense, and like maybe it's like, okay,
well she's in high school. She's young and impressionable, like
maybe that explains that behavior away, but also commented on
at all. It's not commented on. And then so many
of these teen movies where it is like these impressionable
young people who are getting manipulated by each other, who
are like being stalked, and it's like, oh, well they

(38:31):
were teens, they didn't know any better. And it's like well,
maybe don't set all these movies in high school, then, like,
where's the rom com with people in their fifties? Anyways,
Gabril Union, this is the same year that Tre's All
That comes out, so the same movie comes out twice.
Union is literally in both of them, but she's she's

(38:53):
twenty six. In this movie, she's I mean, holy shit,
and she's playing the same role that the beautiful mean
black yeah right, in both of those movies. She's so
beautiful that she couldn't and that she actually leaves her
like popular shitty friend and like tries to be a friend.
I mean, maybe I'm misremembering this, but I remember her

(39:14):
being like the nicer person who's like embracing a friendship
with Laney Boss. Oh, I kind of do, but in
this movie. Okay, so I doesn't really have much to
do in this movie at all, hardly anything, but the
one thing that really stuck out for me, So Gabrielle
Union's character's name is Chastity. She's best friends with Bianca,
the sister, and towards the end of the movie, Chastity

(39:35):
shows up at prom and Bianco's all like, oh, what
are you doing here? And she's like don't make the
mistake of thinking you were the only sophomore who got
invited to prom. So she basically turns on her friend
for a guy, like for this Joey creep, And Chastity
says to Bianca something like, Oh, he was only trying

(39:55):
to go after you because he had a bet with
his friends that he was going to score with you tonight.
Chastity knows this, and she's still on the day with him.
She knows that he was like trying to bang her
friend for a bet. And then and Chastity is still like,
but he's my date, just like, what what do you mean?
The pickings are slim in high school? But that is

(40:17):
I mean, this movie is a prime example of like
women being catty and petty and in competition with each other,
because we see Kat and her sister like having a
really kind of antagonistic relationship. Towards the end, we see
Chastity turning on Bianca over a guy, and it really
reinforced a lot of these this idea that like, oh,

(40:37):
like teen girls, they're they're so petty, they're so catty,
they all just want to be with a man. Right, Wait,
correct me if I'm wrong didn't Joey rape Cat? No?
Well did he? They had a bad experience together, right,
and that's why she like doesn't like him and doesn't

(41:01):
want her sister to date him, but never tells her
sister this. See I can see that being what was it?
What did he do? So what happens is that Kat
and Joey dated in ninth grade. They had sex one
time because everyone else was doing it, so Cat was like,
I'll do it too. They had sex, it was not
pleasant for her. She decided she wasn't ready to do
it again, and then Joey dumps her because she didn't

(41:22):
want to keep having sex. So as far as consent goes,
it's a little murky, but it seems like she consented
to that's just not a sexual experience, right, And then
she didn't she wasn't ready, which of course she was
in ninth grade, Like that's so young. And then when
she told him I'm not ready to keep doing this,
he dumps her. So that's why she hates him so much.

(41:45):
And I feel like it's also implied that that's why
she becomes a militant feminists, which I didn't like that
implication either. Is like, because like Bianca references towards the
beginning of the movie like oh yeah, like she used
to be really cool and pular, and then she was
just over it for who knows why, because she doesn't
know about the joey thing yet. And then it's like, oh,

(42:06):
the only way you can become a feminist is if
you've first been like really, I don't know, I don't know.
It's scorned, scorned my men. And now feminism right, very
Shakespearean where it's like, oh, yeah, she she was made
into a fury like a woman's scar and now she's

(42:26):
an evil reptile who is getting sent to the office. Right.
That feels like a very like nineties idea of what
makes you a feminist? Yeah yeah, yeah, very yeah. It's
like you're on the right. Try, I see what you're doing,
but you're wrong, right, all right, take into the quick
break in the name we will come back in continue

(42:48):
the discussion. Sound good, sounds great, and we are back.
So a quick thing I wanted to touch on is
whenever Cameron and Michael are approaching Patrick to be like
Cameron and his old friend's old grown as man, the

(43:12):
fucking seven year old high school freshman. So they're like, hey, Patrick,
so we found out that cat likes pretty guys because
apparently they found a picture of Jared Leto in her drawer. Basically,
they're implying like, maybe make yourself a little bit prettier.
And then Patrick says, are you saying I'm not Are

(43:34):
you saying that I'm not pretty? I'm not a pretty guy.
And I just want to point out that if he
was a woman in this movie and they were like, hey,
you're not pretty enough, you have to be prettier, there
would be a whole makeover scene, like she'd have to
be made tail. And then unfortunately Paula put in Naska's

(43:54):
right there to pull it off. He's like, actually, I'm
gonna do this weird goof e pasta meat ball accents
and then slap and then plug your eyebrows, and you're
I just did in Hathaway. Now it's time for right. So,
But because because he is a man in this movie,
he literally does not a single thing to have to

(44:16):
change his appearance and he gets to just keep looking
exactly the way he does, so I just want to
point out, and also projects a confidence that is never
lent to teenage girls in movies where he's like, what
are you talking about? I'm hot and they're like, oh, sorry,
never never, you are, You're right, you're right. I felt
like there was a weirdly like implied, like no homo

(44:38):
moment after that too, where he's like, what do you
mean you don't think I'm pretty? And they're like, oh,
we don't. We can't see me because of our penis.
We wouldn't, we wouldn't know because and then Joseph Gordon
Levitt points to his oldest friend and he's like, did
you know he just turned fifty There he's like, oh,
I'm almost sciatica. I got to go to the patrol

(45:02):
preg He's like, that can give us a discount of Denny's.
We should go. But more on that. So there's there's
a little bit of like casual homophobia in this movie.
Not as bad as some of the movies we've seen,
especially from this era, but I would say like the

(45:23):
like Joey drawing a dick on Michael's face as an
example of that. There's a moment where Bianca, when she's
talking about the photo of Jared Leto, she's like, yeah,
I found this photo of a guy in her drawer,
So I'm pretty sure she's not quote harboring same sex tendencies. Uh.
There's another moment where Cameron and Michael talk about like
wanting to partner up with Patrick, but not in like

(45:45):
a prison scene way or something like that. So it's
just like these kind of more subtle examples. It's like yeah,
I was like yeah, which I feel like evolves into
an even worse like John Appetau where it's like forty
five minutes of every single John Apatow movie is like,
but we're not gay friends, right, it's literally like a

(46:08):
whole movie. Yeah, where's the Jason Segel has a friend
who's a boy? I Love you man? That's the alternate
title for right. So we're worth pointing out that this,
like many nineties movies, is pretty liberal with its casual homophobia.
She's a feminist, so we assume she was a lesbian. Yeah,

(46:31):
but it looks like she likes dick because she found
this phote. She likes pretty. It's like pretty. Also, they
she had black panties, yeah, and I was like, you
don't own black panties unless you're having sex, right, Like,
how many teenage girls saw this movie and they're like,
oh no, like the color of my underweard means something. Yeah,

(46:54):
and my mom was buying me black panties. So it's
like this, fucking no, it's so when you get your
period of staying sexy. No, that's literally what it's for
five years. Alth I'm not gonna be wearing white underwear regularly.
Oh no, I don't. Oh no, why underwear? Absolutely not.
Stuff comes out of it. You know, we're leaking, rest,

(47:19):
bleeding all all the time. Also full but underwear. I
didn't like that that movie, like maybe also insinuate that,
like thongs was six and that was the time when
people started like wanting you to see the thong. I
believe that was when we started hiking the thong up
out of the past. Yes, so we'd say we were
ready for six liter. It's like a flag mounting, like

(47:45):
I bought you these because you as gonna chew up
the underwear anyway. So you guys just get to the point.
Well that So that reminds me of a moment in
the movie where so it's after the party. Kat is
in the car with Patrick. She has gotten very drunk.
She's drunk, she's dancing on table. She throws up. At
some point she gets a concussion, he's like taking care

(48:08):
of her, which whatever, But they're in the car and
she's like, you know what, you're not as big of
an asshole as I thought you were, even though you've
been stalking me. And then she leans in for a kiss,
and then he kind of you can tell that he
sort of like entertains the idea of kissing her, but
eventually decides against it, and he's like, maybe we should
do this another time, and then that is the catalyst

(48:30):
that gets her to turn on him again and fucking
hate him, where then he needs to do that big
romantic gesture of like singing in front of everyone in
the stadium to win her back. But like, I'm trying
to make sense of her becoming furious at him because
he refuses to kiss her when she's drunk, or maybe
he refuses to kiss her because he knows that she

(48:52):
because she just threw up, or because he is having
like a conflict of his conscience where he's like, oh,
I've been paid to take her out, and like then
this feels like taking advantage of her. Like I'm trying
to figure makes sense of this scene. I feel like
it's just like a weird writing choice, because I feel
like the more likely outcome of that would be she'd
be super fucking embarrassed and what maybe not talk to

(49:17):
him because she was embarrassed that she tried to kiss
him when she was really drunk and he turned her down,
like I can, let's not say they're like you, you
embarrassed her, like she's embarrassed, and then that manifest into anger,
I guess. But what I'm kind of grappling with is like, Okay, well,
you know she's this headstrong feminist, but by this point

(49:37):
in the movie, she's not not any more not feminist titties,
but she was definitely a feminist who was not trying
to show no tea yeah, tends to like get a
guy out of detention. I would think that, like she
would appreciate a guy not wanting to take advantage of

(49:58):
her when she was drunk. That's what gets her so
mad at him. So I'm just like, it feels like
a weird writing choice, which I was like, oh, well,
this movie is probably written by men and directed my men,
but it is written by two women, two women who
have written a lot of famous stuff. The writing team
is Kirsten Smith and Karen McCullough. Uh so this is

(50:23):
their first big thing. I guess that this is based
on Karen McCullough's high school diary called ten Things I
Hate about Anthony. But what they've written together is Tendings
they hate about you. Legally Blonde, Ella Enchanted, She's the man,
the house bunny, the ugly truth, crazy kind of love

(50:45):
and oh this makes sense because all those movies are
about bitches times in the whole life for a man.
Like bitch went to law school for a man. Yeah,
I ain't taken to elsass for no did I ain't
did good enough for me to be out of here studying.
I mean, I guess she eventually realized she wanted to

(51:06):
do it herself, but she was out of her study
for Dick. Absolutely, not too much Dick in the world,
but there is there is kind of like this overture
with like where it's like great that a female writing
team is getting so much work, but the overture in
their work that's Ellen and Chances is literally about a
woman who is cursed by a whitch and cannot say no.
I've never seen it. I remember reading the book when

(51:29):
I was little and being like this is cool. And
then Anne Hathaway was in the movie adaptation. It's about
a girl who's cursed and cannot say no until she
like falls in love or until something breaks the spell.
She's the Man, and that's another Shakespeare adaptation. Well, actually
She's the Man is the only one I feel like
where she was trying to go play soccer, I haven't.
I haven't seen that. Oh yeah you got. You should

(51:51):
definitely review it, because I feel like that one, that's
the only one they wrote that actually is decent. The
rest of them were like, change yourself for dick. She doesn't.
She dresses up as her brother so that she can
play soccer. But in that she does the journey. She
does kiss Channing Tatum, So okay, I'll watch this movie. Yeah,

(52:14):
kisses Channing Tatum. I love her, release her. So yeah,
there's there's certain choices in this movie, that being one
of them where she's like, you refuse to kiss me
because I was drunk and you might have felt like
you were taking a mantage me. Well fuck, like it
doesn't really make a whole lot of sense. What bothers

(52:34):
me more is the like this is like latent and
most teen movies of this era of like kind of
the story rewarding Heath Ledger for doing the bear minimum
of like he didn't take advantage of her when she
was drunk. What a great guy. God, he did not
even try to attack her. Give him a million dollars.

(53:00):
Like it's just like, okay, there, but that happens all
the time in movies like this. It's like not, Well,
it's because men in movies act so horrific that whenever
they do just the baseline decent thing, we as the
audience are like, wow, what a hero forgetting that. Literally,
like he didn't rape her. Oh my god, I love him.

(53:23):
He's a good guy. You gotta lock that down. A
girl man that don't rape O, sign me up. Yeah,
And that's literally what it is. Yeah. Also the singing notion.
I just don't think that anybody can make that look cool.
And like they had him like slant down his lipole. Yeah,

(53:46):
they had him slide down the pole. He's like, if
I slide down this pool, maybe she'll slide down my pool. HENA,
go gross. So do you want to talk about the sisters? Yes,
beautiful transition. Um, Well, first let's talk about the dad
because I didn't realize I'm on the I'm on the
Wikipedia page. Their dad is supposed to be an obstetrician,

(54:11):
which makes his character even weirder where his I don't know,
this was like an element of I'm sure something that
came from the Shakespeare play that just was never going
to translate to modern times at all, because it's so
weird where he's like, I know what I'll do, Oh
make my daughter is engage in a creepy, perverted bit.
That's my idea. But the dead character is just very

(54:34):
very bizarre. I don't hate where his storyline ends, but
his whole thing is he's he is an obstetrician who
is convinced that if his daughters, if he allows his
daughters to go on a date, they will get pregnant.
Like he believes this firm because he's always talking about
like the babies that he delivers from teen moms who

(54:54):
he slept, shames, shames for having addictions, like it's a
whole thing, and then he's obsessed with like controlling his
daughter's Body's basically where he's like, you can't date because
you're probably get pregnant, and he doesn't apply that if
they got pregnant, it would be their fault, like they
wouldn't be able to help themselves but get pregnant, which

(55:16):
I don't know. Also, I just didn't understand why he
had to. I guess they were trying to validate his
obsession with their sexuality through his job. But that's so weird.
It's not like, would you like, don't be out there
fucking I'm gonna check you out, pussies, what you give in?
He's like, he's like, I spent all day looking at
teenagers vaginas, and therefore you're like, like, these are my

(55:39):
qualifications for being so worried about your vagina? Right? Like what?
It just grows? I didn't That didn't register with me
at all when we watched it, and now I hate
even more. It's so creepy because it just seemed like
that was all he really cared about you. They days

(56:00):
will go in you know nothing about these His daughter
gets into Sarah Lawrence and he's like, oh, don't go
to that school. Sure, but that hymen though? Is it intact? Well?
And not especially that we know that their mom left,
I'm like, what was that marriage? Like is he like

(56:21):
the problem he might be the problem. I think he's
the problem the woman left ship and like left her
daughters with like something amiss with Paula Puta. He also
makes Bianca wear that like pregnancy suit with like the giant,
like the closest he could get to a chasty belt. God. Oh,

(56:44):
I guess that at least because I had a question
like why did he just have a pregnancy suit? Because
I guess he's an institution that makes more sense. But
still at the house, I don't think, yeah, that's in
his office. He's not making house. Don't do house calls,
and if so, put him in jail. I didn't hate
where his last scene was not the worst. I'll hand
him that where he kind of out of know where

(57:08):
starts saying like but it's not until he finds out
that she's like dating a guy, and it's like not
as much of a shrew that he's like, Okay, I'll
let you go to college. Like it's just I didn't
hate it, but it was like it's better than him
being an asshole, a weird, pervy asshole the whole movie,

(57:29):
because there is a scene where it's after Kat has
wrecked into Joey's car and he goes like, my insurance
doesn't cover PMS. He's a feminist icon. He's like, are
you punishing me about Sarah Lawrence? And she's like, stopped
making my decisions for me. And he's like, I'm your father.
I have the right to make decisions for you. And

(57:50):
she's like, so what I want doesn't matter, and he's like,
you're eighteen, you don't know what you want. And then
he says, you won't know what you'll want until you're
forty five. Even if you get it, you'll be too
old to use it because when you're forty sorry, everyone,
you're too old to do anything woman, because like I've

(58:11):
heard of them, but they don't come to that obriction
because they're pussy is too old. Throughout this whole movie, though,
Cats always saying like I want to make my own choices.
I know what I want and I'm gonna pursue it.
I'm not going to do anything else just because someone
wants me to do it. I'm only going to do
things I want to do. So she is like that

(58:32):
to me, is like the best example of her being
like a feminist character, because you know, other times she's like,
you know, Ernest haming Way and blah blah blah. But
it's like her actual saying it and doing it where
she's like, I make my own decisions. I don't let
anyone influence me. I'm not going to just do something
because it's cool, blah blah blah, like all that stuff.

(58:53):
I admire that in a character. That's nice. But yeah,
their dad is so weirdly controlling about their bodies and
their sexuality. It's crazy. It's too much. And the sisters
like they of course have to give them that sibling rivalry.
And again like her little sister was awful like all
the time, and like, but I feel like that's something

(59:14):
that you see in teen movies and on TV all
the time. It's like, oh, they're a teenager, so they're
going to be awful. I wasn't allowed to be awful,
is not allowed to beful at all. I ain't get
no moments. I ain't getting like my mom was like, no,
you're ready to fistfight, like like it's not happening. So
I always see these movies and they're just like, oh,

(59:35):
they're teenagers, you know they're horrible. What I also like
perpetuates this whole thing that bothers me that I've talked
about with my friends from high school now where I
feel like, for me in high school, it's like we
watched all these movies where teenage girls are always butting
heads and they're too petty to get along, and there's
a million examples of it. And it was in high

(59:56):
school most of my close friends were other girls. But
I would never say that. I would always do that bullshit,
you know, fifteen year old line of like I actually
get along better with guys because they're less drama and like,
which is stupid. And I was lying, but I was like,
if that was what I felt like, I had to say, like,

(01:00:16):
get through where there is this weird like especially then
hopefully we's so no but a weird media stigma where
like women can't be friends with other women because then
they'll talk and realize the whole world is a scam.
Then they'll start sharing how much they make and realizing
that they're oppressed. And the sister relationship just like kind

(01:00:39):
of fell right into that with me, where it's Bianca
is written to be a very dumb, horny character and
it always bothers me when like there's female characters who
you know, present more traditionally feminine and are more interested
in sex, and that is conflated with being stupid or
mean and that always sucks. But then been like the

(01:01:00):
sister relationship, it's only resolved where they get along by
the end, but it's only after all this stuff happens
with boys, so they never find a way to meet
in the middle with that man being the catalyst. Yah.
And it would be such a more fun movie if
Bianca was just like fucking horny, like cartoonishly horny, but
like mean or stupid, just like wanting to fun so bad, right,

(01:01:25):
because I can relate with that, like a fifteen year
old that's like she's just so horny. Yeah, they don't
start getting along until like they both have like a
man to like anchor them whatever, and that trope of
like beautiful girl has nice guy friend who is perfect man,

(01:01:47):
but she ignores him. Okay, I want to talk about that,
the fucking like in cell loser who follows you around
and then you're like, I feel like that's honestly how
my parents got met. My dad was it's like hey
still here, and I was like, all right, I love
him so much. They are romantic. So there's a scene

(01:02:09):
early on, where Cameron and Mike are talking about Bianca
and Michael's all like, oh, the her dad won't let
her date and pretty the exposition at the elderly exposition machine,
and he's like, you wouldn't even have a chance anyway,
because she's so pretty, and pretty girls are so out
of reach for us dorks because women who are conventionally

(01:02:30):
attractive or superficial. Meanwhile, they are failing to acknowledge that
the only girls that they are interested in are conventionally attractive,
like they're not looking at like less conventionally attractive, So
they're calling these girls vapid and conceded and superficial, even
though they are so exactly. But of course they don't

(01:02:51):
acknowledge that in any way, but we're supposed to. The
movie makes us feel sorry for them because they're the
dorks who can't get the pretty girl. Can't we get
they're like that? How Elon Musk Okay, Characters like this
the right Elon Musk exists of like the vengeful in
cell nerd who feels entitled to the women around him,
and and when when they're not interested in him because

(01:03:12):
he's an asshole, he's like, I know I'll show you all.
I'm gonna kill you alone, move to space and like
like entitled to the bad baches, Like, come on, now,
we all know we got mirrors. We know where we
at the scale, you know what I mean? You know
when you see somebody and be like I could bag
them where this is when you see somebody you can't.
And they always are going after the people that are

(01:03:32):
like this is the most popular girl in school. She's
also one of the most attractive girls in school. So
we're supposed to feel bad for yo ugly ass movie
ugly like people are actually ugly, right, They're like, just
like we're oversized clothes and slouch and then you'll be
the ugly in cell that we all feel sorry for it.
But she'll still be attractive enough that when you do

(01:03:53):
kiss the hot girl, we're not repulsed. You going to
call the police? You know what's gonna all the police?
Are you making out with this hot person? Man? It's
like Nev Campbell's character and the Craft whenever she like
has a scar and they're like, oh, she's disgusting, and
it's like no, she's Love Campbell and she's on her

(01:04:13):
back and she covers it up the whole time, so
she's just a fine bitch's but she said about that
we don't see, um, it's so dumb. This movie is
well written and funny in a lot of ways. Work
now I'm so interested that because we did a bonus
episode on Legally Blonde, and that's another movie that's so

(01:04:35):
riddled with problems, but it's like funny unless I feel like,
I'm not surprised it's written by the same team because
I have the same like internal dilemma where there's a
lot wrong been like, but the stuff that's funny, I
still kind of gas by this movie, Like I'm like,
it's funny and the characters are likable enough and the
story is well crafted that like, I feel gas lit

(01:04:56):
by it being good, but because it makes me kind
of forget like how problematic so much. There's a moment
where Bianca says, to catch, can't you find some blind
deaf our word to take you to the movie so
I can have one day? And it's just like say
that in a movie, right, But yeah, so so many

(01:05:19):
movies from this era and even into like the late
two thousand's and probably you can find examples of it
happening even more recently than that, where you know, homophobic
slurs just are used, Slurs that disparage people with disabilities
are used, and it's just like, holy crap, why our
movies so bad? They're also problematic. It's tricky, but this

(01:05:42):
is like I feel like, based on the other movies
we've done in this era, it's like very late nineties
girl Power, where it's you know, it's like it kind
of looks like it could be good for women, but
it ultimately like ends up doubling down on patriarchal stuff
where it's like, yeah, we're gonna let you read a
book now and you can say that men are bad,

(01:06:04):
but you still got to end up with one, and
he is going to be fooling you the whole time.
He's gonna be awful the guy that you end up with. Right.
I think it was maybe it was like I feel
like everything kind of has like a inching kind of process,
like we never really get to just bust out the
gate as women, So maybe this was like just enough
feminism that, you know, the network and executives were like, okay, okay,

(01:06:27):
we'll take it. But she does Heath Ledger at the end, right,
because we're going to need that. We're gonna need that
after he checks her and doesn't apologize. Even better, if
she asked for an apology and he puts his mouth
on her. If she if she asked her an apology,
make sure he interrupts her with his face. I feel
like that was like their caveat. They were like, well,

(01:06:48):
we'll have her asked for an apology, but I don't
let me finish its progress progress. This is good. She
Bianca does punch a guy andy him in the with
such goofy sound effect. Those sound effecks are so loud.
It's like but I like that scene because it was like,

(01:07:10):
all right, she she's punching a guy for but yeah,
there's a sword noise that sounds for no reason because
we just let it go. It's the nine Her hands
are not sure. I love it feminism, I did. I
did like seeing her gig is as a problem. Yeah,

(01:07:32):
because usually you see two guys fighting over a girl,
but this time you see a girl fighting a guy
for a guy. And then there's a toxic masculinity moment
of like take your sunglasses off, you get beat up,
bad girl girl with boobs and vagina. You're a weak
man and Vagina let me hit you with a boob.

(01:07:53):
That teacher be ashamed. Do you know if you hit
someone in the face with your boob, it does make
a sword noise. That's just like the rules of feminism. Uh.
There's also a moment where Bianca, whenever she's in her
like French lessons with Cameron, asks him in French, when

(01:08:17):
are you going to ask me out? Because heaven forbid
she asked him out. Why can a woman just ask
a man out? Yeah, Sandy Hawkins, bitch. There's there's one
more moment between the two sisters. I wanted to site
before I launched myself into space, and that was then.
I don't even know where I fallen. I just think

(01:08:37):
it's interesting that it happened. Was Julia Style says to
alex Mac you don't always have to be who they
want you to be, you know, and then her saying like,
you don't need to dress or act in a way
to get guys to like you, fair point. And then
her sister responds by saying, I happened to like to
be adored like I happened, and and I kind of

(01:08:58):
like that too, where it's like it's almost similar to
the scene between like Cat and Mr Morgan where I'm like, ah,
they're both kind of right, where it's not wrong to like,
I'm now I feel defensive and like it's not wrong
to like attention all the time. But it's not. You know,
it's like she's not doing anything wrong by doing that.
But also it's like, I don't know, it seems like

(01:09:19):
a nice older sister moment to be like, oh, you know,
if you don't want to do this, it's not like
required that you do it. It doesn't result in anything
in the story. You know, they keep doing the same
bullshit right now, don't do the same bullshit no matter what.
But at least they said it. That's like the whole
deal with this movie is like they say a lot
of feminist stuff and none of it has any impact
on the story. Yeah, they don't do it, but I

(01:09:41):
just say it. Actions ladies, come on, they're like, this
is all the patriarchy would let us get away with.
It's just like a few nods at us being free
and owning ourselves, but also not doing those things. It's
gotta sound good on a T shirt because then men
can make money off of it, and that works I
would like to think it after this movie ends and

(01:10:01):
she graduates from high school and she goes off to
Sarah Lawrence. Meanwhile, Heath Ledger stays in Seattle and like
maybe I don't know's intern right, and they never see
each other again, Like I feel like they just you know,
they dated maybe for that summer. And then she's like,
all right, I'm going to go off to study biochemistry

(01:10:23):
to become a woman in Stema would have done a
better drop in Palla putin Esca, but ultimately he would
never accept a part that would be so reductive towards
young women. So that's it. That's my feeling on That's
the Alfred beginning, middle, and ends for this movie. Does
anyone have any other final thoughts about ten Things I

(01:10:45):
Hate about You? No? It just it just left me
really wanting things in high school that I would never get. Yes,
I mean, this movie has a whole slew of problems,
one of them being that you know, he manipulates her
throughout the entire movie, and like so many people are

(01:11:05):
complicit in this manipulation, where like Cat's sister is in
on the whole thing, where she's like, yeah, help me
do this, and It's also not realistic because since when
can the high schoolers keep secrets? Right, Like this would
be busted within twelve hours. Sure, but like the whole
school knew and they just didn't tell her, right, there's
no there's no way. So he's manipulating her. And I

(01:11:27):
would say the manipulation isn't as bad as we see,
and she's all that, but it's still inexcusable that he's
accepting money and then of course does not apologize for it.
He bribes her with a guitar. So he takes the
money that the guy gave him to date cat gives
her a guitar with broken to her car, broken to

(01:11:49):
her vehicle, and left a guitar. Also, he only knows
she likes guitars because he was stalking her at the
guitar center. Following at a guitar center, That's the only
reason he knows about this because he was literally like
hanging out into bushes stalking her. Right, he broke into
her car for this romantic gesture, and that like reinforces
the other another thing that I feel like, you know,

(01:12:11):
you tell young men this enough and it just becomes
a part of their reality where it's like, oh, you
can substitute being emotionally honest with yourself and others by
purchasing things or doing nothing at all and just assuming
people will go along with it. There's so many moments
where he has to redeem himself in the movie because
he has sucked up so badly. Some of those times

(01:12:32):
it makes sense and some of it doesn't. But like
the grand gesture of the song, singing in front of
the whole school, the buying of the guitar, and it's
like like he's doing this to redeem himself, but he's
not verbally apologizing, and he shouldn't have manipulated her in
the first place, which the movie fails to acknowledge. But yeah,

(01:12:52):
so it's just a man one of these teen romps
where I love, I love a good romp. I don't know,
I don't want. I still I liked the movie, so
god damn it. Right. It's also a very expensive gift,
you know how much high school was Like I just

(01:13:13):
got rid of my worst boyfriend's shitty acoustic guitar this
year because I'm like, yeah, this guy has some value
to it. I yeah, I'm like, I have some assholes stuff.
Did you sell it? Or just throw it away. I
just left it outside and I put a sticky note
and I said, this used to belong to an asshole.
You can have it like a cursed guitar. That's a movie, Jamie,

(01:13:36):
the cursed guitar. It's my good luck chuck guitar. What
a time to be alive? What a time? Indeed? Well,
should we discuss whether or not the movie passes the
Bechdel test? Yeah it does. Here are some of my
favorite passes. If I Bianca says, there's a difference between
like and love. Like I like my sketchers, but I

(01:13:58):
love my product backpack and what a plug? Right? Got sketchers?
How can we get people wearing these ugly peak sketchers
and Sacconi? Yes, Sacconi, Sacconi is a sketches, just notorious
ugly ass shoes. Sketchers. They used to have those, you remember,

(01:14:19):
laying those little pockets and kids are like, what's it for?
But they were for condoms? Like, who's keeping a condom
in their shoe? Anyways? Sophie raised her hand. Can't have
a back, can't possibly have a back? Right? Yeah? Like, hey,
get my wet shoe condom, let's do. Let me shake

(01:14:40):
it off real quick. You're ready for me to put
this in your orifices. I know that this is going
on the most sensitive part of your body, but it's
been in my shoe for three years. So Bianca says that,
and then Chastiy says, but I love my sketchers, and
then Bianca says, that's because you don't have a product

(01:15:00):
back back. So great great capitalism happening. They're very very nice. Um.
There's a scene with Miss Perky Alison Jenny's character where
she's writing horny erotic fan fick in her office on
work hours. She was so horny, so horny for the kids,
she was for row thing. It was horrifying. She says Judith,

(01:15:25):
what's another word for engorged? Judith says, I'll look it up.
Miss Perkey says swollen. Churchid Cat comes in and says
to messent, and then Miss Perky talks to her about
how she's a heinous bitch. There is mention of a
testicle retrieval operation, which I found to be very funny. Yeah,
so that's that's pretty much that conversation. But part parts

(01:15:48):
of that past. Chastie says, I know you can be
overwhelmed and I know you can be underwhelmed, but can
you just be whelmed? And Bianca says, I think you can.
In Europe a lot of dumb girl exchanges past the
past that they're actually a whole, like asking questions like
what is what wires me? Exactly? Does anybody no synonyms?

(01:16:09):
Sex stuff? Another one of my favorites is Cat saying
they're at the party, Bianca wait, and Bianca says, please
do not address me in public, so it's like, don't
talk to me, bitch. There's a similar funny one and
she's all that where there's the one that passes the
Bactel tests. It's like, I think you should kill yourself,

(01:16:29):
and the girls like that's mean, but it passes a
lot of passes between Cat and Bianca, between Bianca and Chastity,
between Cat and ms Perky, between Kat and her friend Mandela,
who we didn't talk about. But I feel like she's
hardly worth mentioning because she loves William Shakespeare and that's
just fine for her. Good for her. She's a scholar.

(01:16:53):
Let's write the movie on our nipple scale, shall we
do it? You give it nipples for how well you
think the movie treats women zero to five nipples. Um,
I doth giveth this film is one and a half
beer flavored nipples, because that is a quote from the movie.

(01:17:15):
Sounds gross, Mike's hard flavor. What kind of like we're
talking about? I p A because if it's a I've
declared myself too old for coarse light congratulations. I'm gonna
say it's like like a chocolate stout nipple for me.

(01:17:38):
So one and a half. We already talked about how
manipulative the characters are to each other. How the guy
who's doing most of the manipulation, the two guys who
are like behind this whole scheme, are the ones who
end up with the girls at the end. They don't
have to apologize. You just get a guitar and everything's fine.

(01:17:59):
Take a girls sailing and she'll love you forever. I
know from experience. This is a very white movie. The
few characters who are people of color are mostly just
kind of scenery in this very white story. I do
like that teacher character, Mr Morgan. I stand for him,

(01:18:20):
but he does not get much screen time. Yeah, so
it's just so many problems. I still enjoyed watching it,
which hurts my heart to say, but I find it funny. Yeah,
it's It's just I'm glad I didn't watch this movie
more as a teen, because I think it would have

(01:18:41):
gasolate me a lot and made me like really misinterpret
a lot of things and really influence what I thought
romance was supposed to be and what I thought relationships
were supposed to be. And I'm glad that I wasn't
consuming a lot of that type of media at that age. Instead,
I was watching, you know, movies where action heroes punch

(01:19:02):
a bunch of guys and then there's only one woman
in the story and she doesn't get to do anything.
So all media is terrible. And if this movie, if
this movie make fucked you when you were younger, let
us know interested in hearing what is the movie that
sucked you up? Right? So yeah, one and a half

(01:19:22):
nipples and I will give one to Cat and one
half nipple to her friend Mandela Cool. I will. Yeah,
I'm gonna give it a one and a half too.
That that seems about right. Um. Yeah. The thing I
think I like least about this movie is that it
kind of makes a concerted effort to make it so

(01:19:46):
that there's no feminist argument that you can make by
they're being like, well, but this character is a feminist
and she says this, and she says this, and she
says this, and it's like, that's all done with the
assumption that you're not going to challenge the fact that
the movie be as about her being stripped of those
things and having her change and then ultimately challenging men

(01:20:06):
and an authority in general less in order to be happy.
So plus, I mean, you made a bunch of great points,
and I but it's a it's a funny movie. A
dad character, Paula Putonesca really blew it in this. Really,
he really was just like I look at teenagers vaginas

(01:20:28):
all day and then I get home and I can
keep controlling them. It's all I can think about. He's
a little tween badge. His life revolves around tween badge
and it's disturbing. Can we please never say that phrase again?
It's the awful phrase. Actually our merch now. Uh So
I'll give it a nip and a half, and I'm

(01:20:48):
going to give the half to Bianca because I feel
like there's there's more more there. And then I do
like that she at the very least comes around on
that Joey character and she's like, oh, he's a happened idiot.
I'm going to go after this guy who is setting
up a whole scheme, the whole Ponzi scheme to really

(01:21:10):
win in the same everyone her best friend is cough
and her like not trying to be her friend at all.
He's never actually interested in real friendship. He just wants
to be with her. But I think she's too hot.
He's like, how do I get close to this fanast
bitch runs He lies about he lies about being able

(01:21:31):
to speak French just so he can tutor her. That's crazy,
and she's so dumb she never will really don't speak
like he's on Google Translate the entire time. Hold on,
hold on, just like sexy dumb woman. Let me look

(01:21:55):
this up and then I'll give my other nipple to um.
Joseph Gordon love its old ass friend, the other one
he needs that he's suffering. I like David Crumholtz, if
only the old as friend hit hooked with the guidance
counselor who was so horny, if a kid when he's like,

(01:22:17):
he's like, my secret is I'm your age, and then
good enough of me, she's like, okay, five of really
horny fan fiction, let's do this. Is she also so
horny because she's old and it's like, nah, that you're
over forty five, you're useless into that? Yeah, that does

(01:22:38):
seem like a slightly agist thing, or like a woman.
There's like a lot of times like when there's like
a woman in a professional position, it's like, oh, she's
she's so single that she's demented herself into her work
because she can't get no ditch she I think we're
filling in the blanks. I think she is in a

(01:22:59):
polyum so real polyamorous relationships. I think that she just
is very sex positive and very horny and embracing her
sexual I hope. So we're just gonna have to say
that that's what's happening that I'm good with that. I
remember the first time I saw an older woman having
sex on TV. It was Viola Davis get her Box
eight on How to Get Away with Murder, and I
was like, oh funk, I don't want to watch my

(01:23:20):
auntie get her box a. I was like, shoot, I'm
gonna be Auntie one day, and I'm definitely gonna still
be getting my box. A IM like, go by your look.
You don't get your box, don't hear about It's fineanced
me every week. I want you to just be fucking
in your office and not be the first the cold
open to every every episode, Davis sucking on the stack

(01:23:41):
of files. She's like, I'm gonna get you off for
this murder, but first I'm gonna sun this finance. Man.
It's so unprofessional on that show. It's it's so good.
They had her fucking everywhere. She's like, yeah, here, I
got a deposition, but let's sucking the courthouse. She's like,
but first I gotta judge beforeition. He's like, we need

(01:24:06):
to go to recess. Yes, we do say what you
will about network TV, but it is fucking wild. Oh yeah,
Sean has done so much for network TV. She let
me watch Anna Lingus between two gay men, and I said, yes,
this better be prime time network TV, and linguis yes
us and all of our mom's friends are all watching it,

(01:24:29):
which is kind of It's amazing. It's so amazing. Well, lady,
thank you so much for being here. Oh I give it.
I also give it one and a half nips, but
one of the nips is like almost could be mistaken
to be a black person's nipple. Yeah, that's how That's

(01:24:50):
how much like diversity was in this movie that I
was like, it was nineties diversity, like they make fun
of it and not another team movie where it's like
the black guy only says that is whack. But even
as they're making fun of it in that movie, they're
doing it because the black guy literally always says that
is whack the whole movie. It's like a conundrum, like
a paradox. Yeah, they do the joke, but they also

(01:25:11):
subscribe to the problem. The problem. Yeah, and I feel
like that's what this movie does. It's like it talks
about like, oh, feminism and woke ship, but then it
also like tells you with the actions that no, you
come on now be a happy bach and shows howties
that's all. That's all what men want is happy women
like dress cute and showed it. Boobies going to be

(01:25:35):
a shrew until you get some good dicking and then sorry,
beef happy. I did just find out that Joseph Gordon
Lemott's oldest friend, David Krumholtz, plays Bernard the Elf in
the Santa Claus series. Yes, he crush. This is confusing.
I have to go home, all right, Well we'll let
you go. Lacy Lazy, thank you so much for being here.

(01:25:58):
This has been so much fun. Where can people follow
you online? Is there anything you'd like to plug? You
can follow me at d I v A l A
c I on all platforms, the twitters, the Instagrams, all
of the things of the like. I'll be Insecur season
through the third episode literally for like two seconds, for
two seconds, but I'm in the trailer. I'm the black girl, um,

(01:26:21):
and then watch pop TV, watch pop, watch the network pop. Well,
we'll be on there. Just really tune in and keep
that network a flow. Just turn it on and keep
it on. You don't even gotta watch. That's what I
did for Luke Cage. I will turn that sh it
on and get in the shower. That ship was boring,
but I watched it because I support black on. Yeah,

(01:26:45):
just streaming to have it on. Yeah. You can follow
us on social media as well. At bechtel Cast. You
can go to our website becktel cast dot com. We've
got our merch there, we've got our episodes there. There's
all kinds of goodies to explore. You can subscribe to
our Matreon. It's five dollars a month. You get to

(01:27:07):
bonus episodes every single month, and it's a damn good special.
Hey Jamie and Lacy, there aren't ten things I hate
about you. In fact, there's nothing I hate about you.
I'm sorry. Sorry. And then Caitlin just took out a
scroll and she's been Sophie with her titty. I hate

(01:27:35):
Sophie and Andy, I love you too, I love everybody. Aristotle,
love you Aristotle. Aristotle is literally wearing his feminist icon
shirt today and it's it looks so good. Okay, thanks
for listening. We'll see you next time. Bye bye

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

The Bechdel Cast News

Follow Us On

Hosts And Creators

Caitlin Durante

Jamie Loftus

Show Links

Popular Podcasts

40s and Free Agents: NFL Draft Season

Dateline NBC

The Bobby Bones Show

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}10 Things I Hate About You with Laci Mosley