A Walk to Remember with Sam Varela

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the Dog Cast, the questions asked if movies have
women and um are all their discussions just boyfriends and
husbands or do they have individualism? The patriarchy Zef and
Best start changing it with the beck Del cast. Caitlin,
I just wish that Jamie got her miracle? Are you

(00:24):
talking about you, Jamie? I'm talking about or I'm talking
about Jamie Sullivan, Jamie, you know, the one with the
brown hair. Okay, so you. I hope that she got
her miracle. I hope that Jamie got her miracle too,
and I'm talking about you specifically. Well she did, it's you.

(00:44):
I'm your miracle. Oh my god. I this I liked, Okay,
of all that, there's so many corny moments in A
Walk to Remember, which is today's episode, and we'll get
to what this show is in a second. But I
really some of the like flourish of bad writing, where
there's like moments in this movie where the line is like, Okay,

(01:07):
that's like corny, but it's not bad. But then they'll
add more to the line and it gets worse, like
they could the priest should have just said she did,
but then he said she did dot dot dot and
like assuming. People in the audience were like, what does
he mean by that? Because it was you? And and
then Shane west cost Oh it was me. It was me, Okay, me,

(01:32):
And that's why I'm never going to stop going to church.
Welcome to the Bachtel cast a k A church. Uh,
my name's Jamie Church Church. Oh God, just for for
one week only. Welcome to the Bechtel Church. My name

(01:52):
is Jamie Loftus. My name is Caitlin Darante. And this
is our little podcast where we we talked about your
favorite at least favorite and also other movies using an
intersectional feminist lens, and we use the Bechtel test as
a jumping off point. It initiates a larger conversation that

(02:15):
will have and the Bechdel Test, of course, is a
media metric created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechtel, sometimes called
the Bechtel Wallace Test. Our variation on the test requires
that two people of any marginalized gender have names speak

(02:38):
to each other about something other than a man. For
ideally it's a meaningful, narratively relevant conversation yea which which
does come into play with this movie in particular, where
not to blow it. But there are women do speak

(02:58):
to each other in this movie, but it's never very important.
It's not very important when they're talking, unless I mean
they're bullying Mandy Moore. The women are talking to each other,
they're like, Mandy Moore sucks, and then other girls like,
I know, I hate her sweater, and you're like, I
guess that's sort of Narratively, it's relevant. I suppose it is.

(03:19):
It's relevant because but also for some reason, bullying doesn't
affect Jamie, because Jamie's are famously impervious to bully. I
know this from experience, having constantly tried to bully you,
and it never works. I always just go I do
with Mandy Mordez, I guess I go, they're so mature,

(03:40):
they need God. That's what I do whenever someone tries
to bully me. I said, you should come to my
dad's church sometime. Yeah. Well, we're doing a walk to
remember today and we have an incredible guest. That's right.
She is a comedy producer. You can see her stuff
at Naked Comedy dot org. It's Sam Farella. Welcome, Welcome,

(04:01):
Welcome to me. I don't want to spoil anything either,
but I do have to say, I think I think
there was one instance of the bully, of the of
Jamie being cracked by the bullying, which might also be
something relative to the name of this podcast. That's true.
That is true there because Belinda, I believe this movie.

(04:24):
This movie is so like it's just like bizarre in
so many ways where I it's the book takes place
in the nineteen fifties. The movie takes place allegedly in
the nineteen nineties, but it seems like it's still Everyone
still looks like it's the nineteen fifties. Everyone's still dressed
like Greaser's but they have Missy Elliott c ds. It

(04:46):
was really bizarre, But yeah, there was. There was a
Becktel test pass where Belinda says want a tik tak
and Jamie says, no, thanks. There it is right there.
It is it. If you argue that's not impactful, I
have an whole essay high completely. This is one of

(05:07):
those movies that I just simply forgot to pay attention
to whether or not it passes the Bechdel test. But
I do remember that exchange, and it's it's crucial to
understanding the film. Right before some very two thousand and
two photoshop bullying, which is one which is one of
the main which I think is one of again one

(05:28):
of the only things that firmly roots that movie in
the late nineties, because I swear to God, like I
think most of the movie could convincingly take place in
any year in the second half, any decade of the
twentieth century, except they have photoshop, and they have switch
Foot and they have like that's about it, right, Oh

(05:53):
my gosh, Well I this movie. I'm gonna this is
gonna be a challenge. Uh Sam, what is your history
with a walk to remember? Well, I have a very
particular history. That is that I this movie I think
was one of my first boyfriend's favorite movies. I think

(06:15):
he was the one that brought it to me, brought
it to the table, and you know, in high school
seduction classic move I of course memorized only hope and
saying it I think a few times, you know, to
get in the mood. It's very complicated. I have a

(06:37):
complicated romantic past. But um, definitely on the rewatch, you know,
toxic Romance definitely made a lot more sense to my
personal connection to this movie. So you would sing, wait,
how does the song go and my hands and pray

(07:04):
to be only yours. I pray to be only yours. No, no,
you're oh, oh my god beautiful. If I ever had
an SNL audition, it would be that one song, because
I rememorized it that like, I've taken singing lessons since

(07:28):
and tried to learn to sing that song, and they're
like pointing out the issues. I'm like, but that's how
Mandy Moore sings it. That's how I know how to
sing it. That is the beauty of Mandy Moore in
many ways, where she was a pop star who was
not necessarily a great singer, but she was like a
solid high school sopranos, so her songs are like not

(07:48):
hard to sing if you were in choir, Like anyone
in choire can sing Mandy Moore's entire discography no problem.
Though I didn't know till this one, and my you know,
subsequential obsession of googling a bunch of stuff. I didn't
know that. I didn't know the Switchfoot story, and I
didn't know this was originally a switch Foot song, which

(08:10):
really blew my mind. It sounds weird. If you wait, yeah,
you would guess it's the other way around. They're covering her,
but no, no, she's covering them. Who is switch Foot?
What is that? Are they of? Like for real Christian
band or they This was one of my googles. So
they have come out as they are Christian and Faith

(08:33):
not in format. They are not. They do not consider
themselves Christian music. But it's highly debated online. But Faith
not in format. Wow, that's good dodgy language. I like that.
But I guess Mandy Moore was obsessed with them and
turned the music supervisor of this production onto them, and

(08:55):
they were like, we gotta have switch Foot. This is
the sound of the movie. So there's four or five
songs from Switchfoot on the soundtrack, which in an interview
so that I watched again, I went real deep. Shane
West said it might have gone platinum the album for this.
I don't know if that's true. I couldn't um, but yeah,
so I guess Only Hope was a song that they

(09:17):
had written even before the movie. This was just a
song of theirs and they were like, that's her song
for the movie. So at least if you hear a
man singing it, it does read more Christian than in
this movie where It is like some sort of sexual
power play song. Also, the song gets performed in its

(09:40):
entirety in the movie during a high school production of
like twenties Mobster. What is that play about? What's going
on in that play? Why would you sing that at
a nightclub? Right? I went back to like rewatch the
set uppre scene, and I still can't make answer tells
of what sets up that song or why this mobster

(10:03):
would be her only hope. I he was trying to
remember a dream and then he got shocked by her
body and then he just was like the song you
messing for me? Yeah? Blew, my mind doesn't make any sense.
I don't know what the play is about. There's a
really long montage also where they're rehearsing for the play

(10:25):
that's like edited in a way where you're like, what
on earth am I watching? So? Yeah, the play is confusing. Okay,
So Sam, you have a you have a maybe a
torrid history with this film, Jamie, what's your relationship in
history with it? Um? It's not quite that level, but

(10:48):
it's pretty intense where this I I loved this movie
when I was a kid. I don't think I saw
it in theaters, but there. I remember my cousin telling me,
which is in retrospect, it was like, this was not nice.
She was like, she's like, Mandy Moore is in a
movie and she has your name, and she has the

(11:09):
same color hair as you. You have to see it.
What she did not say is that she dies there,
so so she and so I guess if you haven't
seen A Walk to remember, Mandy Moore famously dies in
the movie. But I but I remember like going to
the movie not being like whenever like nine, not realizing
that Mandy Moore was doomed, and being like, oh my god,

(11:31):
this is so me. I'm not like the other girls.
My name is Jamie, I have brown hair. And then
in the like when it becomes clear that she's doomed,
I was like, this sucks. No one's ever no one's
And then I've really turned on the movie hard. I
was like, why would you have why would this be
the only movie character named after me? And then she
dies that said, I really I've seen this movie. I

(11:56):
haven't seen it in easily ten years, but I saw
it a lot when I was younger. It's like, oh,
I I really I feel like this movie. I was like,
not raised particularly religious at all, Like we went to church,
but it just felt like, I don't know, it was
I didn't grow up especially religious, and once I was

(12:17):
like twelve, we just were like, well, I feel like
we've done the whole religion thing and we left. But
this was as close to being religious as I ever got.
Was being like A Walk to Remember is a really
powerful story, you know, like it I really loved. I
had a huge crush on Mandy Moore and Shane West

(12:40):
and I just I really and oh oh. The other
thing about this movie was that when I was little,
I had like a one of those pull out of
a magazine posters of Mandy Moore, and I forgot I
feel like I might have brought this up on the
show years ago, but I had this poster of Mandy
Moore hanging in my room and I thought that she

(13:01):
could see me and watch me, and I was so
scared of the poster. So this would be in that
time too, where I was like I was, I loved
Mandy Moore and I wanted her on my wall, but
I also was really scared of her because I thought
she knew what I what I was doing amazing, And
so eventually my mom took the poster down and I

(13:22):
got mad, but she was just like, let's end this,
Mandy Moore can't see you. It was it must have
been one of those like bizarre pictures where it just
like it. I felt like the eyes were following me.
That was the thing. It was like a Mona Lisa
kind of thing. Um, so maybe Moore is my Mona Lisa.
That's my history with the movie, Caitlin, with your history

(13:45):
with a walk to remember, I don't have an extensive one.
This movie came out when I was a sophomore or
junior in high school sometime around then, so I was
like peak demographic for this movie. But this was also
when I was very firmly like I don't like girl things,

(14:07):
no things. So this movie came out and it was
a huge hit among my friends, and I saw it
because of that. Probably it's like a sleepover or just
I don't know. We're hanging out and we watched it
and I was like, this movie is not for me.
And that was really the only time I saw it.
Part of Stone, I am my truly. My heart is

(14:34):
a lump of coal in my chest, and I have
no feelings. I'm sure I was like moved by it,
but I don't know this. That's my history with it
that I was like, Okay, this movie exists, I'll watch
it once in two thousand two and then never again.
So but watching it back was interesting, and I will

(14:59):
say that it is while it's still has its issues,
it's less full of issues than I thought it would
be for a teen movie that comes out in two
thousand two, I would agree with that. Yeah, it had
it held up better than I was expecting, which isn't
to say that it super holds up, but it for
what it was. Where I like Christian E teen movie

(15:20):
Nicholas Sparks early two thousand's, you would think that it
would be much worse than it actually did. I think
this is my favorite of the Nicholas Sparks adaptations I've seen.
This remains my favorite one. I um took it upon
myself to just here's what I'll suggests the listeners do
google Nicholas Sparks movies, and I think like eleven different

(15:47):
things come up because he's had many adaptations of his
novels into movies, and all of the posters will just
like be right there in front of you all side
by side every poster is identical. Wait, this is funny.
You can also google the Nicholas Sparks collection that just
has all four has like four matching posters as its cover.

(16:11):
Two straight white people with their heads really close together. Yes,
either facing away from each other or facing towards each other.
Like some of them they're like face to face. Other
ones like the man is behind the woman. They're all
in some kind of like warm pink or yellow. A
lot of heads are being grabbed to a lot of

(16:31):
grabbing of heads. Richard Gear is grabbing Diane Lane's head
for Knights of Road, Danty. He's like like a real vice.
Same thing with safe Haven, which is I think Josh Dumel,
And then I don't know who the lady, who the
woman is in it. I don't know what half of
these are. Yeah, I don't know safe Haven. I don't
know the best of Me. I don't know the Lucky One.

(16:53):
I don't know the longest ride these there's so many.
I've seen the Lucky One because I will watch to
anything that zac Efron is in. Do you guys know
if the other Nicholas Sparks movies are as religious? I
couldn't get a clear answer on the Internet. I think
it's not really because I've I've seen probably half of
these and the only one I've seen multiple times is

(17:16):
The Notebook and now A Walk to Remember. But of
the other ones, I think they're not. The religious over
or undertones are not quite there the way they are
in the Walk to Remember, at least for the ones
I've seen. I kind of wonder where that comes from,
like because I don't I might have read the book
when I was in like junior high or something. I

(17:37):
don't remember anything about it. I know a lot was changed,
but I wonder if like the book is as like
bonking you with the like have faith in people message,
because I know that she was religious the person that's
based off of, and she did have a Bible she
gave away kind of thing. But I tried all the Googles.
I couldn't find anything to be like, why is this

(17:58):
movie so not just religio just but like like it's
hammering you with the moral elements of religion. I was like,
who paid for this? Like what's happening? Well? I did
a like google of Nicholas Sparks and his life to
see if there's been anything of note, and it seems
like he personally is quite religious and founded a Christian

(18:21):
school which tried to form an l g B t
Q club, which he then tried to ban, know what, Yeah,
and then students were protesting that, and then he banned
the protests of it, so like he can't ban protests.
What did you see his quote about it? Yeah? Oh

(18:44):
my god. And then sometime later he backtracked on all
this and he's like, no, wait, I'm an ally, and
the reason that my school has no diversity in it
doesn't have anything to do with the school. It's these
other flimsy reasons. So he like saying all this problematic
stuff in like I don't know or something, and then

(19:04):
he's walked it all back and been like no, no, no,
I'm actually an ally. Please let me still have a career. Like,
but did you see the quote where he was like,
we don't need this. He was the reason he said
the reason he banned those organizations was because essentially it
was we don't need these out and open these kind
of clubs like they have always been gays in Catholicism.

(19:26):
They just handled it more delicately and like that was
his stance on it was like, stay in the closet
and we'll all get along. Yikes, that's such horseshit, especially
because it's like this, this movie is directed by an
openly gay man who was openly gay at the time
the movie was directed. I believe, like it's like, yeah, god,

(19:48):
that's so. I mean, I guess I'm not surprised that
Nicholas Sparks fucking sucks, but I did not know that
portion of his life. That's horrible. Yeah, his his history
isn't great, but now he's an ally so everything's fine.
All's well, that ends Well, we just need a movie

(20:09):
poster of like the same sex couple holding their heads. Yeah,
we need we need someone grabbing someone else's head. Um,
but it's a queer movie this time. That'll fix everything.
That one everything, You know what would really fix everything?
If we gave Nicholas Sparked more money. I think that
would fix everything. Oh my gosh. Absolutely. Why don't we

(20:31):
take a quick break and then come back and do
the recap and we're back. Okay, all right, so let's
shall we shall we get into it. Let's get into it.
So we meet Landon Carter. That's Shane West. He's with

(20:53):
his friends, who are these popular kids who are mean,
and Landon gets in trouble after a classmate of theirs
gets hurt because of a prank all the popular kids
pulled on him, brutal. Just quick quick reminder at the top,
Shane West is a stage name. Shane West's actual name

(21:14):
is Shannon Bruce Snaith. I did not know that. It's
one of my favorite celebrity facts is his name is
Shannon Snaith, And so they were like, that's not gonna work.
We need I think it would be fun if he
was just allowed to be Shannon Snaith. I also think
I wonder if anyone else picked up on this, or

(21:35):
if I'm just being tall girl syndrome. I also think
that Shane West is shorter than Mandy Moore. His height
fluctuates throughout the movie, and I think that the movie
does not like the movie is very rigid and its values.
And I think that they also must have said, we
can't have a male lead who is shorter than our

(21:56):
female lead due to societal pressures, because anymore is five ten.
Shane West is six ft allegedly, but but that's impossible
because he's shorter than her in anything where you can
see his feet, he is shorter than her. Any scene
where you cannot see his feet, he is taller than her,

(22:17):
meaning that he's wearing some sort of acting shoes acting
shoes or they they stuck him on like an apple box?
Is that what those are called? And yeah, you want
to go rewatch the dance scene. It's the dancing where
it's most obvious because she's teaching him how to dance,
and you're like, oh, he's shorter than her. I never
see that in movies. Why didn't I notice that? And

(22:37):
then it cuts to the next scene and he's taller
than her in the next scene, and I was like,
why can't men just be five seven? Sometimes it's fine, relax,
So I'm sorry I have so many deep dive facts.
But fun fact, along with other parts of this set,
a lot of the sets were from like Dawson's Creek
and other highly popular areas or a filming zone. But

(22:58):
so whatever that water basins that they did this first
prank at, apparently it was full of like algae and
eels and they had scula divers clearing the water for
the stunt. So like, just to put us in Shane
West and whoever that guy's names had. They're diving and
swimming and eels, their belly flopping straight into an eel. Holy,

(23:23):
that is dangerous. Once you I, I did know about
the Dawson's Creek stuff, and like, once you've I watched
two seasons of that when I was sick, like two
years ago, And once you know it's the same high school,
you can't unsee it. You're like, oh, I've I've seen
drama in these halls before. Okay, So then we meet

(23:48):
Jamie Sullivan, who is Mandy Moore. She's very religious, her
father is a reverend. She sings in the church choir,
the whole thing. She is also popular, unlike Landon Carter,
and she gets mocked by Landon's friends because she's not

(24:09):
stylish and she wears the same sweater every day, which
is also for one of the that was from the
real person. Okay, so the real person is based off
of Nicholas Sparks's sister, right, Yes, who in my favorite
power move never read his book. It did. Yeah, she

(24:30):
said she didn't want to know how it ended, which
I feel like he took as a sweet sentiment and
I took as a burn she's just like, um, look,
I've only got so much time and I'm not wasting it. Yeah,
I thought it was. I didn't realize. This was my
first time realizing that it was at least based on
a true story. But there are deviations where I believe

(24:52):
his sister was thirty when she passed away, and then
in the book, I guess that it's not specified that
Jamie eyes that. It's just it says. This is what
the Wikipedia page says. I'm like, I don't really know
what this means, but it said that it is ambiguous
whether Jamie died or simply disappeared into the shadow world.

(25:14):
Now I don't know what hang on, wait, wait, hang on, Now,
that is not unlike the ending of Titanic, where Rose
was it a dream the shadow world. I did, in
fact make some notes about the similarities between this movie
and Titanic. Amazing spoiler Switchfoot says the word Titanic. Yes,

(25:39):
they do, amazing. I have some parallels I would like
to draw between A Walk to Remember and another movie,
which I will I will reveal. I guess now it's
like there's no reason to hold back any longer. Okay,
I don't know if anyone else noticed this or thought this.

(26:00):
But the way Shane West looks in this movie, to
me is identical to the way Robert Pattinson looks in Twilight.
He looks exactly like Edward Cullen to me, I get
I see it for him to like notice this pale,
brown haired, bookish girl, be really mean to her at first,

(26:23):
and then be like, hey, maybe we could be friends,
and then they start dating and fall in love. Except
that's basically Twilight. Jamie Sullivan, I will say, in defense
of Jamie Sullivan, she at least has some semblance of
a backbone, unlike Bella Swan who just does whatever Edward
Collin tells her to do. At least Jamie Sullivan is like, no,

(26:44):
you can't be my secret friend, get out of here. True,
that was like good for her. Most movies in two
thousand two were not doing that. That's true. They're like, okay,
we can be friends. This is a secret, Like fuck you,
Shane West. But I was the whole Both times I
rewatched this movie to prep for this episode, I was like,

(27:04):
oh my gosh, am I just watching Edward Cullen right now.
The resemblance is simply uncanny. True, I see it anyway. So,
because Landon has gotten in trouble for this prank, he
has to do a bunch of community service, which includes
tutoring underprivileged students at a nearby sychool. Yeah yeah, yeah,

(27:27):
the coding there is yikes. And then also he has
to participate in the school play, which he gets cast
as like the lead of. And I'm just like, you know,
when you're in trouble with the law and your punishment
is to be the lead in a high school theater production,
which also, like, aside from the fact that that is

(27:50):
completely absurd and like it just makes no sense. On
top of that, that sucks for all the theater kids
who told in the first scene it's like, oh, they're
really into it. Like it's not like they're desperate for
people to audition for this part. There's a room full
of people who want this part, and they're like, no,

(28:10):
Shane West, you have to do a really bad job
as punishment, Like why does everyone need to suffer through
Shannon Snaith's acting, Because like he committed a crime, he
also committed a crime, didn't you guys? Have that um
drama teacher who she cast her children as. All the stars.
I feel like it's not that uncommon for school the

(28:32):
high school theater to be corrupted by those in power.
I had we had, like our our high school drama
instructor with like cast football players to like try to
get to like yeah, yeah, I mean like that. That
is like definitely, at least in my experience, something that
happens Jamie. That is what happened in this movie right

(28:53):
right there, just like oh, jocks, you get to cut
the line in every area of life apparently, and it's well, okay,
I guess the rest of us will just die. I
I like that. In the play, Mandy Moore, Moore is
wearing a prom dress underneath a trench coat. What an
interesting reveal. That wasn't a trench coat, that was like

(29:15):
a cult coat. That was a cloaked like weird ass
CULTI cloak, and underneath it it's like a two thousand
and two prom dress and you're just like, all right,
oh gosh. So Jamie is also involved in these activities,
so she and Landon keep running into each other, and

(29:36):
one day she gives him a ride home after the
school play rehearsal. She tells him about this to do
list that she has, but she won't tell him what
number one on the list is. Then he wants her
to help him run lines for the play and she's like, okay,
I'll help, but you have to promise not to fall

(29:56):
in love with me. Oh my god. Okay. That that
really sent me back because I think that that was
the first time I've ever heard that line in a movie,
even though it's in so many movies, And it's the
funniest thing anyone can say to another person because how
many if people have said that in real life, how
many times has the other person actually been interested in them?

(30:17):
I feel like zero. That's gonna be a really funny
bit that I'm going to start doing where a friends
just like, Hey, I haven't seen you in a while.
Do you want to go get coffee? And I'll be like, okay,
but you have to promise not to fall in off
with him. Oh my god. She said. There are parts
of JV's character that I don't like, dislike, but they

(30:42):
feel a little dissonant where she's like made out to
be like, oh, she's like a misfit, but she acts
with such confidence in moments like that where I'm like
this is cool girl ship, Like what's going on where
like I feel like the like uncooled girl at school
doesn't say you have to promise not to fall in
love with me, but I appreciate that she does. She

(31:05):
takes a stand for all uncool girls. And I'm sure
that at least one person who saw that movie who
wasn't cool then said that at school and humiliated themselves.
So I know that they made a really big effort
to avoid like some character tropes, um specifically the glasses.
They insisted no glasses. Yeah, I just feel like her

(31:31):
charisma is like the taking off of the glasses, like
whenever she turned, whenever she's like unusually flirty for this
like Bible girl, it's like, okay, that's the glasses coming off, right.
And I don't dislike that she is confident in herself.
It just like I guess maybe it was just like, oh,
I wouldn't have expected like the least cool girl at

(31:53):
school to be like fuck you and then or like
or like on the date where she they have that
like erotic temporary tattoo moment that I totally forgot about,
like Titanic hot car scene, hot Carr, the Christian version
of the Titanic scene where they're like, it's temporary. It's temporary.
He's going to blow on it, but he's not touching her.

(32:15):
When he blows on it, it's hot. It is hot
when he blows on the temporary tattoo. Okay anyway, So
she's like, don't fall in love with me, and he's like, yeah, right,
that won't be a problem, and then they start running
lines together at her house. Her dad, by the way,
does not like this landing fellow. No um, Also, isn't

(32:37):
it it's Peter Coyote too, Yes, who I like sometimes
learn who that is and then I promptly forget. He's
an iconic. I feel like he's he has that experience
a lot. He's just a famous character actor. He is
an ET. He's in He's in a lot of ship.
He's an Aaron Brockovich. He's in all sorts of ship.

(32:58):
And then you see him, you're like, oh, that guy. Anyways. Also,
Landon's mom is played by Daryl Hannah in the worst
way I've ever seen in my life. By the way,
you read the Wikipedia, you saw the savage commentary on her. Yeah,
then wait about her that she got like lip injections

(33:20):
and that whole thing, and they're really focused on her wig.
They really well because it's I saw like a bunch
of different explanations for that. I thought, I like what
my takeaway was that they the wig was bad, but
I guess that she was so like famously blonde that
they're like, I guess they made a lot of famous
blonde women into Brunett's in this movie, because Brunette equals

(33:44):
dramatic turn or it did in two thousand and two.
Brunette equals agency, right, Brunette equals a little little more serious. Yeah, Okay.
So Jamie and Landon are hanging out their running lines together.
It seems like maybe they could be friends. But then

(34:04):
he's a jerk to her at school so that he
can seem cool in front of his cool friends, and
Jamie's like, you're a jerk, and we cannot be friends.
Love that for her, she's really taking a stand for now,
for now. But then Landon starts to get serious about
the school play, about his role as a tutor, and

(34:29):
then the school play happens. Jamie a k a. Mandy
Moore sings that song and she's so breathy. I love her,

(34:54):
I love her, and and she loves switch Foot and
she loves switch I'm like, that's the those teen girl
because she's, like, I think, like a rare example of
a teen girl playing a teenager in a movie, even
though no one, I don't think any of the other
teenagers are actual teenagers, but Mandy Moore is. No. I mean,
I don't know if you guys are going to mention
it later, but you know, Shane West was twenty three

(35:18):
at the time of filming and Mandy was seventeen. Yeah,
he was like eight full years older than her, which
is uh not not great good based on what happens
next in the story, which is they're on stage together
in the play and they kiss, and then they kissed
a bunch of other times throughout the movie they sure do,
but this but this first kiss is forced because it's

(35:42):
not in the play. It's not in the script. It's
a surprise kiss, yes, which they had to rehearse on
their first day. Yeah, I and it's it seems like
Mandy Moore and Mandy Moore has uh I mean, she
she came out with a bunch of me too stuff
a couple of years ago that isn't relevant to the
content of this episode, but she seems to still be

(36:04):
friends with Shane West. I feel like that that's more
of a fault of the production for like putting them
in this scenario in the first place, Like that's just
especially for a teen actor and then an adult, like
that's that's just irresponsible on the productions. And they knew
that they had crushes on each other, and the production
knew they had crushes on each other, and he I

(36:25):
don't again, I didn't see anything about anything you know,
storied taking place. It's they were had to crush on
each other. They never dated um and Shane was, you know,
teaching her how to act because she didn't know how
to act. So it's a little there's a little a
little weird, there's a little I yeah, I read that
he taught her what a what a mark was and
how to hit it. He was like, oh, poor Mandy Moore,

(36:46):
she didn't know. I guess that this movie was shot
before The Princess Diaries because that's like her first credit,
but it was shot after. Yeah, yeah, okay, which is
I I liked it. In the early two thousand's there
Mandy Moore was given us more range than a lot
of teen actresses because she played sweet Girl and she

(37:07):
played bully right, because she's she's mean and Saved and
Princess Diaries, but she's an angel from heaven in this movie, right,
And then in both Saved and A Walk to Remember,
she plays a very devout Christian character, but on two
very different ends of a of that spectrum. And now
she's on a TV show that my mom talks about

(37:30):
on the phone all the time that I'm never gonna
watch this is us, Yeah, exactly. Okay, So they kiss
on stage and then Landon's like, wait a minute, do
I like Jamie? Do I want to be with her?
He's breaking the one rule. He's falling in love with her,
and he wasn't supposed to a rule breaker. You know,

(37:54):
he's a bad boy. He's canonically a bad boy. He
almost kills a student in the first scene. Yeah, but
he does go visit him in the hospital and say sorry,
so that redeems him question mark um, even though the
student is like not understandably not very receptive to the apologies, like,
get the funk out of here. I don't know why

(38:16):
I want to be your friend. You like push me
off of a cliff, or like whatevers a bed of eels.
So yeah, Jamie is like rejecting him and pushing him away,
and she's like, you don't know how to be a
good friend. So then he tries harder. He gives her

(38:39):
a new sweater. He stands up for her when his
friends play that photoshop related prank on her at school, which, truly,
if you haven't seen the movie, just like look up
that scene because it's even like, even though it's like
from a plot standpoint of like, oh my god, your
heart goes out to her and and maybe that would
be a horrible thing to happen to you in two

(38:59):
thousand too, but if that happened to me now, I'd
be like, uh so, what is the joke here? It's
such a bad photoshop. It's like it's more embarrassing for
the person who photo shopped it than for her. But
I do feel like that scene really captures the like
cruel scene laugh that like still haunts me to this day. Yeah,

(39:22):
you run into that in real life. Oh boy, all
logic goes out the window. You're scarred, that's true. Yeah,
So he defends her and stands up for her when
this happens, and then he asks her out on a date,
but her dad doesn't let her date, so then Landon
asks her dad permission to take her out, which he

(39:44):
relents to. So then they go out to dinner, they dance.
It is revealed that Shane West is shorter than Mandy Moore. No, no, no,
we don't know it in that scene. It's then we don't.
It's after we find out she's sick, and then he says,
you too, to dance, and that montage that's where you
learn he is. He is a couple inches shorter than her,

(40:05):
hasn't He asked his mom to teach him how to dance? There, Yeah,
the dances before because the leukemia reveal is like, to me,
where the movie totally shifted. Well, sure, yea once our
protagonist is doomed, yes, but yeah, maybe I'm messing up

(40:25):
the order. It's whatever. In there's a scene in the
middle of a montage where she teaches him how to
dance and you can see both of their full bodies
and then you're like, he's shorter than her because you
can't wear your acting shoes in a full body shot.
You're right, yeah, because she teaches his mom. He asked
his mom to teach him when they later dance on

(40:46):
the balcony with no door, right right right right the
balcony door. Yes, it's that's fascinated me for years. I
didn't pick up on it, just like you're gonna make
this sickly girl climb out a window to look at
her stars all the balcony with no doors. I wonder
if it's like if it's like a an Aladdin kind

(41:08):
of deal where it's just a curtain that leads into
a room. No, it's it's just four windows. They also
are looking through a telescope that he builds right in
front of her, Like you would think that he would
have done that as like a surprise gift, but he
just like sets up a workshop outside of her house,

(41:30):
and it's like, don't look, I love it what I'm doing.
This movie is so goofy and corny in so many
ways where you just have to be constantly suspending your logic.
Where there's like one scene where you find out what
Jamie's ambition in life is, which is to like witness
a miracle. But you find out because Shane West happens

(41:50):
to be going through the yearbook at home alone, Like
why is he doing that he's just we're to believe
he's just sitting at home, like to day night, better
look through my yearbook, like I don't want to break
your mind, But I feel like that might be one
of a few instances in this film where traditionally he

(42:12):
would then in a real world start checking off. And
that can't be alluded to at all. Know, he's just
like a plot point. She wants a miracle, does she?
She wants for it all. Wait, I'm gonna klen as
you continue to summarse, I'm gonna just just to put

(42:32):
my own mind at ease. I'm going to screen cap these. Uh,
these shame west height toscripancy is to share with the
class because I swear to God, I swear to God,
it's the thing. Yes please um. So, meanwhile, they go
out to dinner, they dance. He helps her knock some
stuff off of her to do list, like to be
in two places at once and to get a tattoo.

(42:56):
That scene is really sweet, It is pretty nice. It's
so corny, but the I remember the two places at
once seemed really vividly because Maddie Moore gets so excited,
She's like, who so cute? And then they kiss and
he tells her he loves her, and she's like, I
told you not to fall in love with me. Are

(43:18):
we going to know? He had one job? And then
her dad is like, Jamie, you have to be fair
to him before things get worse, and we're like, huh,
what does that mean, which we find out shortly. But
before that, Jamie and Landen Star gaze together and then
she tells him the number one thing on her list,

(43:39):
which is to get married in the church where her
parents got married. And then the big reveal, which is
that she tells him that she is sick with leukemia
and that she has stopped responding to treatment, the implication
being that she does not have long to live. And
then he broods for a while. God, but then he

(44:00):
goes to his Okay, this scene is just story logic wise,
it is so silly. Where he goes to his He has,
of course, because every movie has to be about fathers
and sons for some reason. Yes, he has a bad
relationship with his dad, who's like a doctor, but he
left and it's all very like vague divorced parents stuff.

(44:24):
But he goes to his dad's house and it's like,
my girlfriend is dying of cancer? Can you save her?
And his dad's kind of like, well, no, there's not
a cure for cancer that's known, and Shane West responds
by being like, you were never there for me, Like
I was like, yeah, but these two, these two things

(44:46):
are sort of unrelated, you know. Also, his dad's like,
I'm not an oncologist. I'm a cardiologist. For someone who
wants to be a doctor, he really did not understand
anything about medicine at this point. True, it's so funny
that whole scene because then it's like a million years

(45:07):
of brooding and Shane West driving around in his cool,
cool car and it's like, dude, listen, like, your dad
is not the right kind of doctor. Like the situation
is still very sad, but like, of the many things
that maybe your father's faults, this is not one of them.
Is not one of them. So yeah, he's brooding for

(45:28):
a while, he's driving around in his Camaro, and then
he comes back around and he's like, Jamie, baby, I'm
not going anywhere. And then one day she collapses and
is rushed to the hospital and Landon stays by her
side until she's able to go home. Because Landon's dad
arranges to pay for her private home care, which is

(45:51):
really nice, and I guess a more realistic thing that
he can do instead of knowing the care for cancer
that doesn't exist. I forgot about that plot point and
I liked it. I thought that was very nice. But
I also feel like that whole dad plotline, like I
don't really care about it at all, except for the

(46:11):
moment where at the wedding that's about to happen. The
way that his dad looks at him at his wedding
is so she looks like he's about to burst into tears.
I'm like, I don't even know who this man is.
Like what am I looking at? Anyways? I'm getting handed well,
so then, uh, what's his name? Landon asks Jamie to

(46:35):
marry him so that she can accomplish the number one
thing on her list. So they get married, and then
Landon's voiceover explains that they have a beautiful summer together
and that she passes away a few months after their wedding,
and then we get a flash forward to four years
later where Landon pays a visit to Jamie's father. He

(46:58):
has gotten into medical school. Hopefully, He's like, he's hopefully
made amends with his dad to be like, I'm so sorry.
I didn't know how doctors worked when I was seventeen. Whoops,
I overreacted my back. And then Jamie's father is like Landon,
by the way, Jamie did find her miracle and it

(47:20):
was you. And then there's some more voice over about
how Landon will always love Jamie and he'll always feel
their love. So that's the story. Let's take another break
and we'll come back to discuss, and we're back. M hmmm,

(47:43):
We're I feel like we've we've actually covered a fear
amount of ground. Actually the recap, yeah, we have. Since
we were briefly talking about like the fathers and sons thing,
I wanted to just say a little bit about that,
which is to me, it feels like the big emotional
beat of this movie. That's like the big like tear jerker.

(48:05):
Everyone in the audience is crying. Is that moment where
Landon goes to his dad to say, thank you for
paying for my girlfriends like private home care. Because he's
he's crying. They hug each other. The music swells like
lingers on this moment for quite a while, and the
cinematic language tells you that that's the big crime moment,

(48:29):
and then a short time later, couldn't care less Jamie
dies off screen. We only know about a via voiceover.
It is not played for like that big tear jerker
moment the same way, which I'm kind of surprised I
watching it back. I guess it would have really emotionally
wrecked me at any age to like I didn't want

(48:51):
to like see her die, But they do wrap it
up so quick. I guess. I don't know the argument
there is, like it goes out on a high note,
like you see her like she's accomplished her life's goal
of getting married, and and then it's like, well, you know,
I don't know. I don't know how I feel about
that choice. Yeah, I just I found it really kind

(49:12):
of bizarre that the big tear jerker beat of the
movie is the like father son reconciliation rather than the
death of the woman that the main character loves. I
feel like the tormal shift I was saying with the
leukemia was actually like more I feel like when the

(49:36):
movie kind of became what I understand might be more
like the book, where you know the book is like
clear that it's coming from Landon's perspective, and the book
is kind of well Nicholas Barks's Uh. When Nicholas Barks
spoke about writing the book, it was like he equally
wanted to like it wasn't really about Jamie. Like when

(49:57):
he read the book, his thoughts are like her husband
was such a miracle, Like who would marry a girl
they know is going to die? Like this guy needs
to be celebrated. Like that's kind of where he was
coming from. And so I feel like that would make
sense then why his big emotional opening is what's important.

(50:18):
It's like, oh, Jamie taught him how to feel, and
now he feels with his dad. I agree, And I
feel like that is like the big true or or
one of the biggest trophy issues with this movie. Right.
It's like it in I mean, I think even from
like a screenwriting sampoint, it's clearly Landon's story, but it

(50:39):
but it like uses the trope that that has been
in a lot of movies and stories over the over
time of like a woman dies to like teach a
guy how to kind of be a better person. Like
that is ultimately the narrative function of like Jamie in
this world at these And I don't mean to, like,

(51:02):
you know, because because I know that Nicholas Sparks's sister
inspired this, but it's not her life story. She was
a different person living at a different time, who was
in her late twenties, not in high school, you know.
And I like the way this movie was adapted clearly
falls into that trope of like Jamie, while I feel
like Jamie is like a better developed character than most

(51:26):
young women who are put in that role, and like
there are things that I was kind of not like
impressed as a little bit strong, but I was surprised
that there was a lot about Jamie that like she
didn't do the the grease thing or the what the
like she's all that thing where she totally changed and
at the end she's popular, like she does stay. She

(51:49):
she changes a little bit, but like for the most part,
she's pretty consistent and like she's always church girl and
she's not gonna like change what her values are. And
for the for the most part, like I thought that
was like, oh, that's a little bit different, but she
still ultimately is like sacrificed and what the takeaway feels
like And now Shane West knows that he can go

(52:11):
to med school and he doesn't need to be a
high school bully. And it's like, well, was it worth it?
Was it really worth it? I don't know, right, Yeah,
that is such a trope where the function of a
lot of female characters, whether or not they die depends
on kind of the story, but the function of a

(52:32):
lot of the of characters. It's sort of like the
burden is on women to teach men how to be
a good person and like how to feel feelings and stuff.
I don't know too much, Like I I do recognize
this trope, I don't know too much about it, like uh, scholarly.
But I also feel like this kind of has to

(52:54):
do with the religious overtones too, because I feel like
the tone it's basically like it feels like this movie
is celebrating the mercy that land In bestows upon Jamie,
and it's really about like his like not only his transformation,
but like how much he put into this relationship by

(53:15):
being with a person with leukemia, which feels very ablest,
but also like the idea of mercy. Like even in
the Bible, you know, women are often literally just plotlines
for male characters in the Bible. Um, so I feel
like there's also that aspect of it that, like I
guess only hearing you talk about the trope really connected

(53:37):
the two for me. And when I was googling, like
I was trying to find out what the genre is
of like Christian movies, and the only thing I could
find that was like scholarly was connecting them to the
religious melodramas like plays and stuff. Um, So it feels
like this, even though I could not find any confirmation
why this was so Christian or that this is even

(54:00):
seemed to be considered a Christian film, it's not on
pure Flix. I just feel like it's definitely that we
have to do a pure Flix. I only found that
from this it's oh yeah, there. I think I'm pretty sure.
Maggie may Fish has covered a couple of movies on
her YouTube channel that are I think they were originally

(54:21):
on pure Flix. But like Rob Schneider appears in a
lot of pure Flix movies, there's like it's it's it's
exactly what it sounds like. It's Christian Netflix, but it
just sounds absolutely wild, which I did watch again, I
went on too deep of the dive. I did watch
a YouTube clip of the VHS commercials from the VHS

(54:44):
release of this film, um, and they did include a
preview for a movie that is on Pure Flix. So
again I'm like, where is this Christian money coming from?
And why is it unngogle able? Like it's very strange.
I it is. I mean, I guess I I didn't
go back and do the full like recap. I feel

(55:07):
like for a very mainstream, successful movie, this movie is
unusually Christian, where, if you know, the further you go
back in American movies, I like, the more Christian outwardly
Christian they get, and more you like you see the
themes of mercy and faith come up more often. But
by the early two thousands, I feel like it is

(55:27):
kind of a usual. I don't know but that, but
I could be wrong, but you think like Saved came
out after this and that is very critical of Christianity,
Like I feel like that was more common by that point.
I don't know. I will say that, and this is
coming from someone who was raised as an atheist and

(55:47):
tends to shy away from Christian media or any like
entertainment that has strong Christian under or overtones. I didn't
necessarily I didn't mind the Christianity in this or like
the I didn't mind the religious themes in this because

(56:10):
none of the characters who have a strong Christian faith
are using their faith to justify toxic attitudes and ideologies
that some Christians have, such as you know, homophobia, transphobia, racism,
anti choice, anti bodily autonomy, you know, all that stuff.
And when I'm critical of religion, it's those displays of

(56:33):
toxicity and intolerance that I'm critical of. But we don't
see any of that in this movie. The characters aren't
doing anything like that. They're just you know, living their
lives and not hurting anybody or being prejudiced towards anybody.
But there's not really anyone to be prejudice of, you know,
because everyone is straight at this high school. Well, but

(56:56):
there's also there maybe people of color, and that's not
counting if they reuse background actors, Like I think, to me,
it's like I could get into the headspace of this
being like, I agree with you, it's not used. When
you were talking, it made me think of Josie and
the Pussycats, Like I feel like religion in this movie
is like product placement in that where it's like almost like, no,

(57:19):
we get it, like we're putting it in front of there,
but then because it's religious and like, but wait, maybe
they're like, I don't know, it feels sinister, but that
might just be because the church is weird. I kind
of I I agree with with what you're both saying
where I felt like the way that Christianity was presented
in this movie was pretty inoffensive. But then I was like,

(57:40):
but maybe that's not good, you know, because because this
movie I don't I don't know, And ultimately it's it's
I get kind of like lost in the sauce there
because it's like either someone is not really thinking about
it very hard, or someone's thinking about it really hard.
Has it in the way that like Christian and He's
presented in this movie, because I feel like it is.

(58:02):
It's you know, like less harmful tenants that are being
used in this movie of like forgiveness and like give
people a chance, And I mean the way that that's
kind of implemented does lend itself to a lot of
Shane was toxic behavior kind of being forgiven a little
to christ Like maybe, but but it does I don't know. Yeah,

(58:27):
Like ultimately I'm like I do. I do remember recognizing
that there were christian elements to this story, but I
think because someone else pointed it out to me. I
don't think I would have gotten there on my own,
but there was like a parent or someone who was
just like, oh, it's like churchy ship makes me sick
or like whatever, But like, how did we not pick

(58:47):
it up as a kid? It was just kind of there. Well,
how how old were the two of you? Because like
that was the only thing I remembered about this movie.
I was like, Oh, it's the movie about the girl
with cancer and she's very devoutly Christian like that. That
was like the main thing I remembered about this movie.
I was your age, but I was, you know, not

(59:08):
aware of my bisexuality at the time, So I was
just horny this whole movie, and that was all I
could see. I was nine, so I didn't know shit
about shit. I just wanted people kissing and singing. Uh.
But but I do I mean, it's like, I don't know.

(59:28):
I think that there's definitely arguments for both sides of
the way that Christianity is presented in this movie, where
I'm glad that the negative aspects of Christianity didn't enter
the plot, but also it feels bizarre to just ignore
them as if they don't exist, and it's like it's
it's completely uncritical presentation of Christianity to the point where
I feel like they almost like reverse a priest trope

(59:51):
that you like. When you start watching the movie, you're like, oh,
you know her, her dad is by nature of his job,
very religious, so he's going to be very a Steve
and he doesn't want her to date. But it turns
out the reason that he doesn't want her to date
is not just because he's a priest. It's because he
doesn't like she's also sick and there's like other things
going on that we don't know. So I feel like
that the movie kind of makes the priest look better

(01:00:14):
as the movie goes on, because you're like, oh, he's
not being mean because of religion. He's being mean because
his daughter is really sick and he doesn't know what
to do, like which kind of I don't know. For
me on this rewatch made me not be like, oh,
he should be restricting his daughter's behavior, but at least
it gave some context and it wasn't just the trope

(01:00:36):
of like religious dad equals controlling and oppressive. The more
we talk about this, I wonder because the first time
we see the father, who is the pastor at the
only church in town where all the bad kids go, no,
but when we meet him, it's the mom. The line
right before is the mom saying you need a father,

(01:00:57):
and she's talking about how he doesn't talk to his dad,
and then it us to him. And now I'm just thinking, like,
because Mandy Moore didn't know how to act. Apparently Shane
West taught her the Marker thing, but she was very
natural and this was her first film. Like I wonder
if the like not intention but like I wonder if
it hadn't been her, would we be reading more into
like how the pastor kind of becomes his father figure,

(01:01:21):
and like how their relationship is actually more about like
both of them men, like learning how to have a son,
learning how to have a father, learning how to be
family with boys. And Mandy Moore was just so good
at the role that she was given that that kind
of got pushed aside for more of like us caring
about Jamie. Like I feel like we as the audience

(01:01:42):
care a lot more about Jamie than it feels like
the script in like intended or pushed for. Yeah, I
mean she really is, Like I think Mandy Moore's performance
does hold up in this movie. She's so Mandy Moore,
Like she's just so Flee and you're even when the

(01:02:03):
character is like kind of all over the place, You're like,
I'm rooting for I wanted to hit her mark. I
wanted to take off her scary cloak and sing a song.
Um I I agree with you, Sam, I think that, Yeah,
there are certain I hadn't even it hadn't even occurred
to me that the priest kind of ends up taking
on this fatherly role. I mean, what is the Bible

(01:02:24):
but yet another story about fathers and sons true, the
ultimate one maybe the Father's son and the Holy Spirit
is Mandy wo wow. I bet that's Cannon. That's gotta
be Cane. I mean, that's Catholic. Nicholas Sparks is Catholic.
Print It all makes sense. And I do think that

(01:02:46):
there's like it's implied or I feel like the story
is suggesting that the reason that Shane West character is
such a rebel, bad bad kid, you know, like on
the wrong side of the tracks at the beginning of
the movie is because his parents are divorced. There is
a part where Daryl Hannah says to Shane West's character,

(01:03:06):
She's like, you need a father, because she's trying to
get him to forgive his dad, who he's estranged with,
and she's like a boy needs us dad kind of thing,
and which I think is like kind of mean to
her character because she seems to be a really good
mom who really cares about her son, and like, we
don't really the only thing we know is that something's

(01:03:28):
going on over their lips. Her hair is a mess,
but she loves And the other thing you know is
that she loves and is very supportive of Shane West.
Like the way he's acting out would not suggest that
he like that the parent he lives with is very
doting and caring about him. I don't know. I just
thought that was like he ends with an evil boy

(01:03:48):
he's friends with, like a truly evil boy. That boy
was really evil. Yeah. I don't know that character's name,
but I don't need it. We're talking about the guy
that like later in the cafeteria, he's like, get away
from me, man, Like we're through. He's the guy. Yeah,
that broke up with Shane West and You're like, who

(01:04:10):
are you? Yeah, I was like, who the hell is
this man? No idea. UM. What I want to make
clear here is that and I don't know a whole
lot about the teachings of Christianity, not having grown up
in the church but sick, but like, I want to
make it clear that, like, there are many Christians, including

(01:04:33):
many listeners of this podcast, who because I want to
avoid making any sweeping generalizations about religious people and Christians specifically,
because again, there are a lot of Christians who are
very tolerant and very progressive and who are the opposite
of that kind of stereotypical Bible thumping religious right that

(01:04:55):
I think some people have come to associate Christianity with.
And this is this is like kind of one of
the best depictions of Christianity because it does like you said,
it doesn't have any opportunities for the bad stuff. It's
all just about kindness and love and coming together. It
is very Christian in the true sense of the word.

(01:05:16):
I think my my fascination with it just comes from
not the religion and not the um, not people who
are religious, but from the way that the Church operates
specifically the Roman Catholic Church. So that's kind of where
my perspective comes in of like, it's not the word,
and it's not the people that are in my opinion,

(01:05:37):
that's not really where the problem lies as much as
the people who are administering things and the specific you know,
we all know about the Roman Catholic Church. There's lots
to be suspective, right, It's more, Yeah, it's the institution
of religion that or the people who use Christianity as
an excuse to perpetuate their own bigotry. Like that's obviously

(01:05:59):
what there is to be critical about, not the things
that Jesus taught and promoted according to the Bible, and
not the idea of the religion itself kind of thing. Yeah, Yeah,
it's more like the indoctrination, which could be said of
any organization. To me, that's always what's fascinating and any
organized religion too. Yeah, but there's always some sort of

(01:06:22):
indoctrination process for different organizations, and that always fascinates me,
Like how do you take a nonbeliever to a believer? Right?
And it's I mean, in Jamie's case, it's almost certainly
that she's just like indoctrination since birth stuff. Um either
that or she is like there is a lot of
argument for and again it's like, yeah, the the the

(01:06:44):
elements of Christianity that are presented in this movie are
not bad things necessarily. It's like Jamie is presented as
this as this very like almost like a very christlike
figure who is extremely forgiving of the people around her,
to the point we're coming from a teenager, You're like, huh, Like, uh,
you know, is very forgiving, has faith in people's ability

(01:07:08):
to grow and change in a way that most teenagers
do not. Uh, and on and on and then and
then she's sacrifice at the end of the movie, and
then her love exists in the wind, and I'm like,
she's basically the Jesus of the movie. And I don't
hate It's like I do like Jav's character. I like her.

(01:07:30):
I'm rooting for her. I like when I don't know,
even just like remembering seeing the movie as a kid
and like watching for all of its flaws, Like as
a kid seeing the like girl who's like a little
different be asked like you don't care what people think
of you? And she just says no. I was like
that's kind of cool, Like, even though it's maybe not
the most realistic reaction, that's a cool thing to see

(01:07:54):
in a movie if you're like a kind of weird
kid where you're like, wow, this girl doesn't give a
ship and like, I don't know, there are things to
be said for for the way her characters presented. It's
not hyper realistic teen chit, but like, nothing in this
movie is she's a superhuman Christian angel sent from God

(01:08:15):
to sing choir songs in the play. Yeah, she's not
a real person. I guess what I'll say is like
that is how I viewed the movie too, and I
feel like it would still be that movie without the
religious element. So that's my only question is like it
feels layered on in a way that I wonder why.
I wonder how religious his sister was, like, or how

(01:08:37):
big of a part of her story that was. Yeah,
all I could find was that she did carry a
Bible around. But like they even took the Bible out
of this film. They made it a book full of
quotes like Dolly Parton. I like Dolly Parton. I was like, wow,
Jesus thought Dolly Parton was really smart, because that's what
Jamie said, did Dolly Parton fund this movie? Oh my god?

(01:08:59):
What if Dolly Parton Christian? Yeah? Okay, I did not.
I was like, I guess I don't know anything about
her relige. I don't know. I just other than the
fact that she's Miley Cyrus's godmother. Miley Cyrus another Nicholas
Sparks star. Oh that's true. Which one is that? That's
the last song? Question mark? I'm pretty sure I saw

(01:09:20):
that in theaters. Is that the one Channing Tatum isn't
or is that a different movie? I think so? Oh no, wait,
he's I hope not. Wait he's like kind of old
for her, isn't he? No? I think that it's Isn't
that how she met her? The guy that she married
was through that Nicholas Sparks movie. And it's Chris Hemsworth's brother.
Oh yeah, that's it's Liam Hemsworth. Okay, so the okay,

(01:09:43):
what's the Channing Oh the Channing Tatum one is Dear John?
Which is him? Cyphrid God? So many white actors? Uh? Wild?
I wanted to I wanted to talk really quick about

(01:10:04):
another character slash storyline that I found baffling and maybe
I'll say it not necessary to the movie, which is
Langdon's ex girlfriend or Landon. I keep wanting to say
Langdon as in Robert Langdon from another Christian text, the
Da Vinci Code. Oh my gosh, we did bring up

(01:10:25):
Mona Lisa earlier, so I always have Da Vinci Code
on the brain Baby, I'll never stop. But the whole
thing was so so the deal with I don't think
she even came up really in the summary because she
doesn't need to be in the movie. I left her
out of the of the summary. So her deal is

(01:10:48):
what's her name? Her name is like Barbara, have no idea, Josephine, Belinda, Belinda, Belinda,
so Belinda, which again I'm like, what year is this
movie taking place in. Belinda is Shane West's ex girl
friend who wants to get back together with him, but

(01:11:10):
he's not interested. She is really forcing the issue. She
gets very jealous of Jamie when it becomes clear that
Shane West is interested in Jamie. She does the photoshop
praying Jamie's hurt, and then Belinda later apologizes to Shane
West about that, but not to Jamie, who is in

(01:11:33):
the adjacent I think she's like, right, there isn't she like,
doesn't she apologize to Shane West for what she did
to Jamie in front of Jamie's house, And it's like,
you need to apologize to her? Oh okay, I was like,
she needs apologize to Jamie. All of those guys none
of them apologized to Jamie. They all apologize to him, right,
No one apologizes to the right people in this movie,

(01:11:53):
because we'll get to this later. But when we talk
about like the relationship between Landon and Jamie, but she
apolo gize is to him after he gets mad that
she has cancer and she's like, I'm so sorry that
I have cancer. I should have told you sooner. And
he's like it's okay, Well that's like he's not. He's like, no,

(01:12:14):
you doubt you're perfect, You're eighteen, and then she runs away.
He doesn't chase her. Instead, he drives to a mysterious
city where his dad is and then he drives into
the night, and then the one person of color main
character in the film, Eric comes to check and Rand
the most like the most hyper sexual racist depiction and

(01:12:36):
also the best, the most complex of the group, and
the best friend of them all. It seems yes, so
quick sidebar about that character. So that's Eric. He easily
he falls into the black best friend trope because he's
Landon's best friend. He has characterized in a very harmful
trophy way in which he in basically every scene he's

(01:12:59):
in is making comments that are extremely like sexually aggressive,
and that's really all we know about that character. So
that's bad. It's really frustrating. Yeah, it's like falling into
all of the tropes of the black best friend is
like we know nothing about him other than he is

(01:13:20):
there to deliver, you know, Devil's advocate views on what's
going on to Shane West. Like he'll come in and
be like, well, well, what if Jamie isn't the love
of your life? And Shane West is like, never she is,
and he's like all right, like there, he's just like
there to like he's only there to demonstrate at various
scenes in the movie that Shane West is changing as

(01:13:40):
a character, like that's the only and Eric, I guess
you could argue changes a little bit where he becomes
less of an asshole unless of a bully about the
fact that Shane West is dating Jamie, But that's such
a small change. That's only in relation to his friend,
Like you know nothing about him outside of that it. Yeah,
it's it sucks because I don't I don't think I've

(01:14:03):
seen that actor in anything else. But I enjoyed his performance.
I thought it was fun. I read that he and
Shane West made up that really long handshake that they do,
which I was like, well, that's fun. I guess that's
the only time in the film that smoking is alluded to,
which I thought was an interesting bad boy trope. Yeah,

(01:14:24):
they do a little like smoking weed thing. That actor's
name is al Thompson. He's been working pretty steadily, it seems,
over the years, So good for him. Okay, I just
I just saw his Wikipedia page was a stub so
and that was where my research ended. I think he
does a lot of TV in mostly kind of like

(01:14:46):
small bit roles kind of thing, got it. But yeah,
so I thought like his performance was really fun and
there was room to include him more meaningfully where he like,
I don't know, it's like why not get rid of
the like girlfriend ex girlfriend, like evil girl side plot,
and like make room for the best friend. I like,

(01:15:08):
all of his scenes are enjoyable, but he only exists
in relation to Land in right, Like, I agree that girl.
I didn't even know she was an ex girlfriend until
I looked on Wikipedia. Um, I just knew that she
was some girl who wanted to be with him somehow.
One thing I noticed that I don't. I might just
be drawing a string to nowhere. But did you notice

(01:15:29):
how when she does apologize, she's wearing a pink sweater,
just like the one that he gave Jamie. WHOA, I
didn't not notice that. I don't know if that's like
her signal like now she's a good person too or whatever.
Everyone who wears a pink sweater is a good person.
Amazing God. So back to the Jamie does apologize to Shane.

(01:15:53):
That so after that scene where he's talking to Eric
and they like have a little bit of a reckon
silly and I think that's the that part of the movie.
But then Jamie comes up to Landed as he's like
fixing his Camaro and she's like, I'm sorry, I should
have told you sooner, and he's like shrug, let's kiss,

(01:16:14):
and it's like, why are you apologizing Jamie? Yeah, anyway,
it was That's like another one of the more obvious,
like ablest scenes where it's like you ditched her, you
didn't support her when she was like coming out with
this big news, and now you're like, she makes a
joke like something about dying. Does anybody remember? Yeah, she says.
He's like, are you scared? And she says to death

(01:16:37):
and then he's like geez, and she's like, lighten up.
I'm the one who's dying. I can joke about this
if I want. She's like, can you can chill for
a second. So and so that was on a tangent
of no one apologizing to Jamie right when it's she's
owed several apologies, but everyone's like, oh, she's she's so

(01:16:59):
christ Like, she'll forgive. I guess I'll just apologize to
a random person who has nothing to do with the situation,
or I'll make her apologize to me for some reason,
Like it is. It is frustrating, and I feel like
that is like one of the something we haven't really
gotten to yet is just like, especially in the early
days of this relationship, just like how toxic and fraud

(01:17:20):
this relationship is from the jump, and how Jamie's extreme
willingness to forgive and believe that people can change absolves
him of this behavior in a way that he never
really meaningfully apologizes for. Where at the beginning of the
like for the whole first half hour of the movie
before he's like, Okay, I want to be in this

(01:17:41):
play and I want to work with you. Up unto
that point, he is like mean to her. He's like,
I know I've known you my whole life, but I
don't I don't give a shit about you, essentially, and
then once he realizes, oh, I do like her, he
comes the most Like the moment that I didn't remember
in the movie that I was like, how dare you

(01:18:02):
was when he goes to her house and asks her
to be his friend but in secret so you can
still be popular. And I was like, the fucking nerve
like that for me is where I'm like, no matter
how forgiving a person I am, I'm tapping out right there.
That is that is a horrible thing to do, to
even attempt to do. It's also like you said, like

(01:18:24):
what time period are you in? Like I could see
in the fifties a guy asking that, like, you know,
how it is I'm the popular guy. I don't know,
I don't know what voice that was, but you know,
I'm the popular kid. We all know the rules of
the high school. Like, I feel like that would have
been much more nineteen fifties, where it's like, you know,
this relationship, it's so common to us, but not in

(01:18:45):
the nineties. Yeah, and it's like, I'm glad that Jamie
tells him to funk off in that moment and she's like,
you know, but but the fact that he still gets
a second chance without really apologizing and just by being like, hey,
I've decided to be your friend publicly, like that is
very warranting of a second fuck you. But she's like, Okay,

(01:19:07):
let's try it, you know. But she's Jesus, so it's hard, right,
And he's like, but I got you this sweater. Everything's
fine now, right. Um. We talked about this on the
Beauty and the Beast episode and other episodes. But like
the the idea of like the burden of forgiveness, often
in a like hetero romantic context, is often placed on

(01:19:30):
the woman to forgive the man for his often toxic
bad behavior, which again we see a lot of in
this movie, where for the first several of their interactions
he's really mean to her, he makes fun of her,
He's like, oh, you're carrying around this bible, you loser

(01:19:52):
with your one sweater, you like stars and planets. Gross,
Like he's like bullying her for the random ist ship.
He's like, how dare you have an interest in astronomy.
I'm like, I've never seen someone bullied for this before.
This is interesting and I like that. She's like, yeah, sure,
I'm the pastor's daughter, but but science does exist as

(01:20:15):
like okay, movie not not not too bad. And then
there's that scene where he, even after he starts to
fall for her, he comes at her after school and
like tells her how she feels. And then plot wise,
that ends up being that he's right where he's like,
you're hiding behind religion and astronomy and all this stuff.

(01:20:38):
Like he just names all of her interests and it's like,
and that's what you're doing instead of admitting that you're
in love with me? And then and then she's like,
wait a minute, maybe he's onto something. And we're like
what you just like you can like things and have
a crush on an asshole. I was gonna say again,
coming from the horny lens that I first viewed this in,

(01:21:00):
it was like I don't care he's hot and now
he's into me, Like I feel like my my horny
brain doesn't doesn't register. And I do feel like this movie.
One of the reasons I want to talk about it
was just because, like the thing you're saying about forgiveness
coming from the woman, I feel like a lot of
tropes that are in this movie can contribute to like
toxic masculinity in the way that a boy would interpret it.

(01:21:23):
And I know with the guy who my that first
boyfriend that was obsessed with this movie, you know, had
of a lot of the toxic romantic kind of ideas
of like, no, I'm making the romance for you know,
I broke up with him and he did not take
it well like I guess trigger warning. But nothing happened.
But um, you know, just like how this is the

(01:21:43):
perfect this the way the tropes are in this movie
are like the perfect timeline and the perfect way it
could go. But a lot of the habits that are
being reinforced, you know, can be used in a toxic
way in other situations. Yeah, and then another one that
I mean we haven't specifically defined, but something that happens

(01:22:07):
is that he basically he just wears her down the
way that we've seen in tons and tons of movies,
and this seems to be a Nicholas Sparks thing that
he recycles over and over again. Because he's writing very
popular heterosexual love stories, there's probably a lot of that
going on. But that's like the Notebook, Oh gosh, one

(01:22:27):
oh one. So we see that with the Landing character.
She keeps saying, no, we can't be friends. You've treated
me badly, leave me alone, and then he keeps coming
back around and basically trying to sweeten her up with
gifts and friendship. And it's like what get away quick

(01:22:49):
comment was when he was first trying to get back
in her good graces after I forget what thing he did,
but where he was like bringing her flowers obviously every day.
I was just like, Okay, you know this girl is
dying and now you've made her house to look like
a memorial. Like take a step back, maybe, thinking through Landing,
like she's not dead yet, She's not right because they're okay.

(01:23:11):
So there are kind of two separate times where he
needs to or he's trying to redeem himself. The first
time when he realizes he likes her and he's actually
trying to get with her. Then they get together and
they profess their love for each other, and then when
she tells him I have leukemia, I'm dying, and he

(01:23:32):
flips his ship about it and is like, why didn't
you tell me this sooner? You owed telling me this?
And then he like storms off, and then we don't
even know how she reacts to that, because the movie
does not check in with her at all during this period.
We just watch him brooding for like and minutes of

(01:23:54):
screen time that it is dead for not knowing the
cure to cancer right. And then when he finally does
come back around, he talks to her dad. He doesn't
even talk to her at first. He's just like, don't worry,
I'm not going anywhere. Tell Jamie, can you pass along
the message? It's like, well, can you talk to her
face to face and apologize to her? But instead of

(01:24:17):
that happening, when they do finally come face to face,
she's the one to apologize to him, and it's just like,
are you joking me right now? So bless Her dad
was also in that, like telling her like, you gotta
tell him before it's too late. Like obviously that messaging
was not just coming from Landed, it was coming from
the people around her, right. Well, That's like part of

(01:24:38):
what I find frustrating about the love story in this movie,
because it's not like I don't know I it's not
like you can't in life start with like, you know,
how do I want to phrase this? I feel like
this this movie could have been an interesting opportunity to
write someone someone's behavior meaningfully changing and a way that

(01:25:00):
could have felt authentic, and also could have like been
sort of a character map for young for young people
who especially young men watching this movie, because it's not
like even in the context of the movie, I don't
doubt at any point that Landon cares about Jamie, and
I don't doubt that you know that teenage boys very

(01:25:22):
often are deflective towards people that they're attracted to, especially
in a hetero context, and like whatever. It's like that's
something that I experienced in high schools, Like so when
I had a crush on not being nice to me
and then like having to apologize and over time like
maybe of a friendship build, but it's like you have
to especially with like movies for young people, I feel

(01:25:44):
like there is some responsibility to like really track that
journey in a way that is responsible and not just
like randomly putting the onus on Jamie to be the
world's most forgiving person. And I don't think that it's
like impossible if this story were written differently or a
little more deliberately, I don't think it would be impossible

(01:26:06):
to get Landing from the beginning of the story to
a place where maybe he has meaningfully earned Jamie's trust.
But that's just like not how we see the story
play how or is or is very choppy, uh in
the way it plays out. I do wonder how much
how much that has to do with her maybe not
being available, Like I know that she's a teen so

(01:26:28):
she can only work ten hours a day, and they
shot this in thirty nine days, So I wonder, Like
at first, I was like, I think this has to
go back to the you know, kind of Christian ethics
that they're displaying in this where it doesn't make it
doesn't make sense for that storyline to really get into Jamie.
But also maybe Mandy Moore decided to mount one day

(01:26:50):
because it does seem like after her leukemia diagnosis, like
she has that scene in the bed, but really she's
kind of gone from the movie at that point. She's
like not an active heart, Like she only says like
thank you for thank your dad, and like a look
at this comment. And then does she She doesn't mean
to say I do. She just like hugs him and
then they're married, right, yeah they don't did they even

(01:27:13):
get married? Uh we don't know? Yeah, why aren't we
checking in to see like how she feels about like
she knows that she's dying, Like, and there's a part
where she says something like I don't need a reason
to be angry with God, Like can we explore that's

(01:27:33):
a cool Like that's an interesting thing to bring up
of like a crisis of faith for a priest daughter,
like and it's all set up, but instead, Yeah, I
fel like the movie diverts and ends up focusing on
boring land and side plots and and gives a shit
about because it should be a movie that's about her,
not about him. I hate to keep bringing up religion,
but again, like that is very Jesus, Like like Jesus

(01:27:56):
had crisis of faith, but he never lost a faith.
He would just be like, Dad, what's this God? Damn it? Yeah?
Uh yeah, I don't know. It's it's like Jamie is
perfect to a fault. But the moments that you see
her human side and the movie doesn't seem interested in

(01:28:18):
exploring when it's like watching it back this time, those
are the most interesting moments where she is affected by
how people treat her and she is angry that she
is dying, and like there there are like she does
have these really human emotions. But then she Yeah, I
guess like in the christ like way you're describing Sam,

(01:28:40):
she just kind of like transcends them off screen. Then
it's like and it's all and it's all good, and
Shane West went to medical school the end, right, I
don't know, it's it's but I still like it. I
don't know. And there's um I wanted to go through
the product ship the people behind this production. So there

(01:29:04):
is people we've discussed on the show before. There is
a female screenwriter here. Her name is Karen Jansen. Uh.
This is another Denise dn Novi movie who I know
has come up on the show a lot. She seems interesting. Yeah,
she was like a millennial childhood shape er big time.
She I think we talked about her kind of extensively

(01:29:24):
because she got both Little Women's the Winona one and
the Greta Girlwig one made but a quick rundown In
case you forgot who, Denise says, uh some of some
of the hits Edward says, her Hands Nightmare before Christmas,
both of the Little Women's, Practical Magic, Walk to Remember
What a Girl Wants, Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants, New

(01:29:44):
York Minutes, Failed, Mary Kay Nashley movie Uh, and Crazy
Stupid Love, which we just discussed on the show. So
she's behind a lot, a lot, a lot of big movies,
and even I mean in a lot a lot of
them are movies that are specifically marketed at teen girls.
But I feel like a Watch to Remember even stands

(01:30:05):
out in her catalog because it seems like the only
kind of aggressively Christian movie in this in this catalog.
And then I just try to shout out that the
director of this movie, uh and openly gay director who's
who was openly gay at the time of this movie. Uh.
Started as a choreographer, then switched into directing. Also directed

(01:30:25):
The Wedding Planner, which we've covered on Marion. Yeah. Oh yes, yes, yes, yes,
the Hairspray, the two thousand seven one. Uh, he just
directed What Men Want, which everyone didn't like. And uh,
he's also directing something that I wasn't aware existed, which
is a sequel to Enchanted starring Ammy Adams. The final

(01:30:51):
fun fact about the director, whose name is Adam Shankman,
which I don't think I've said um, is that he
officiated Sarah Michelle Geller and Freddie Prince Jr. His wedding.
I know they're also still married. They've been married for
twenty years. Dishwasher commercial what there's a dishwasher commercial where
they're like making a bunch of innuendoes about doing it

(01:31:13):
every night and then it's like, yeah, we run our
dishwasher every night. It saves water, and like that, I
and this. I don't hopefully this is but like I
think I can. I confuse their marriage with Carson Daly
and Tera read a lot, because it's like brunette guy,
blonde lady and Carson whatever. That other relationship definitely didn't last,

(01:31:34):
but it was a big deal. Freddie Prince Jr. And
Sarah Michelle Geller three names, you know, six names between
the two of them. It's destined to last. Yeah, of course,
I hope they're washing dishes right now. Also, that's really
I'm like, they have how many years has it been
since they've done a dish. Let's be real, seriously, use
a dishwasher. That's true, that's because they use the dishwasher.

(01:32:01):
Another quick behind the scenes thing. This movie was edited
by a woman, Emma E. Hiccox's shout out to Emma. Yeah, oh,
the last thing I wanted to say. We called attention
to this, I think in the recap. But there is
a surprise kiss in this movie. That's a really really
sneaky surprise kiss because I didn't even realize it was

(01:32:21):
a surprise kiss until my second rewatch. But it's when
in the play Landing kisses Jamie after she sings her song.
And I originally just thought that that was like a
scripted part of the play that the high school student
playwright wrote into the thing. But then I picked up

(01:32:43):
on a line that the playwright says on my second
rewatch where he's like, oh, interesting, rewrite you did their landing,
And it's like, oh, he's referring to the kiss. Yeah,
he's surprise kissed her on stage in front of everybody.
Feel like Mandy acted out the way you would a
actual surprise kiss, Like she didn't seem psyched. There is

(01:33:05):
a look of shock and surprise on her face, which
I I guess just chalked that up to like, oh,
this is probably her first kiss ever and that's why
she's reacting that way. But then I was like, oh, wait, no,
that was a surprise kiss and she wasn't expecting it

(01:33:27):
and he just used the school play as an excuse
to kiss her. Also, I feel like the cringe eest
part of this movie for me is when he's like, uh,
when she takes off her cloak. To me, that was
the most uncomfortable moment. He forgot all of his lines,
so ridiculous this whole I mean the fact, and that

(01:33:47):
was like, I think one of the closer moments to
like a true trophy, Like wow, I didn't realize that
Mandy Moore is very like Western beauty standards beautiful before
she removed this colloak like what are you doing? Um? Anyways? Yeah, um,
does anyone have anything else they would like to talk about?

(01:34:10):
I have to click things. I just I appreciated that
the music. They used the music to indicate bad kids,
you know, in a very old man kind of way.
The first the first the whole first scene up until
when the bullied kid gets there, I could barely hear
because the music was blaring so loud. And then that's

(01:34:30):
a recurring theme with Landon wearing blasting headphones, and it
just seemed like a get off my lawn kind of person.
That indicated that part of the script that made me
and you laugh, right because the bad boy kids, like
they're heavy metal rock and roll music. Yeah, and a
lot of you know, a lot of the with that
scene where they're flipping the radio thing, it's like no mercy,

(01:34:54):
like just like still biblical, but like the best side
of it, right, he's yeah, he's listening to his devil
music and she's listening to her god music. Yeah. And
then the only other thing was that, oh two things.
One also in the VHS commercials, there was a commercial
for a O L online and in the trailer for

(01:35:15):
this film it does have like below the rating like
a O L keyword a walk to remember for when
we still didn't know how to search things. I just
thought that was a nice time capsule. It was a
simple time. My last thing was that I kept reading
about how this film was released in theaters, but then

(01:35:37):
also released in a family edited version, and I could
not find what that means, Like what was edited out
of this version for the family edited version. Maybe the
handshake between Landon and Eric where they reference smoking weed.
I was wondering if they just edited out that guy

(01:35:59):
and made it a fully cast right, because he's always
making again, very sexually aggressive comments and jokes. So yeah,
maybe they just eliminated that character altogether. I guess just
if your fans can sound off that was it still
bugs me. I just want to know what is what
was edited out? Yeah, it's true. I'm curious. Yeah, this

(01:36:22):
has to be the kind of movie this this movie,
I can't I wonder, it's hard. It's hard to describe
how it's like that, like I know it when I
see it kind of thing. But you can tell when
a movie when a lot hit the cutting room floor,
and this movie seems like the kind of movie where
a lot hit the cutting room floor. They did say
that they did a lot of cuts to make sure
it was PG not PG thirteen, one of which was

(01:36:44):
cutting Shane singing to Mandy in the hospital only Hope,
which I would like to hear. How did that make
a PG thirteen. Is that too sexy? Made it too depressing? Oh?
It was too sad? Okay. I thought it was like
in a PG the movie you can only say shit
or fuck once, and you can also only sing only
hope one, oh my god, or it's adult. Yeah that

(01:37:11):
was all I had. All right, Well, I believe the
movie on some technicalities, passes the Bechtel test, but I
think that the bullying, it's only it only passes in
scenes where Jamie is being actively bullied, which, now that
we've talked it through, is a like narratively significant thing

(01:37:33):
that happens. It's just sad, Yeah, I think it is.
I think the passing is literally just a photoshop scene
when Belinda has to like get her to follow her
to the cafeteria, right, and then like we see Jamie
almost make a female friend and then actually, no, she's
not allowed to have any female friends. Sorry, James. I

(01:37:55):
remember the lines now. It was like, Jamie, you would
look really pretty with makeup here, come with me? Do
you want to? Oh my god? It really is like
the one of the worst passes we've ever had is
even an egg. Right. She's basically like, your face is bad.
Your breath is bad. Come with me so that I

(01:38:16):
can keep bullying you. Yeah, come to the table so
I can keep bullying you with all my cool friends.
Also like to like fourteen people go to that school
that just all of it's so bizarre. I feel like
I saw fourteen kids that went to the entire school
and all of them hate Jamie. You know, Jamie does
seem to have a friend who is the other co

(01:38:41):
star of the school play. Oh yeah, but we don't
know that character's name. I don't even think we don't
know anything about her. She barely says anything. Let Jamie
have a friend. Seriously, I did love how her friend
was like the perfect drama nerd. Yeah, you know, highly identifiable.
And it's like that seems like and you would think that,

(01:39:03):
like it seems like Jamie is kind of like well
liked by the drama club. We have no reasoning that
she isn't. So it's like, why can't we see her
thriving outside of this relationship with Shane West a little bit?
And also you would now that I'm like, wouldn't they
have visited her as she was dying? They appeared to
be her friends, right, I will say it sounded like

(01:39:24):
she had kept her diagnosis secret from everyone from outside
of her father. That's true. So by the wedding, did
they know she's sick? I don't know. I mean they
know because of the gossip, Like Shane West kind of
blew up her prophecy, right because all all his friends
find out about it. Damn they all come around and
they're like, oh, I'm sorry, I was such a jerk before.

(01:39:44):
I know that. My personal experience, not with cancer, but
with like major injuries and stuff is like I did
have a tendency to isolate. I still do. Also could
be depression and stuff, but like that's like me inferring
that is her reasoning, It isn't the Only thing we
know for the movie is that she was like I
found out two years ago. I didn't want people to
treat me weird and I was cool until I met you. Right. Ah,

(01:40:08):
so much unexplained, right, But if yeah, but if we
knew more about her character or saw things more from
her point of view, we would have a better sense
of what the circumstances were there. So we just don't know,
because we don't even know. She was really unpopular. The
popular kids just didn't like her right, but it's like, yeah,
it's it's you can be disliked by popular kids and

(01:40:30):
still be the coolest kid in the drama club, like
or that star club that she ran that we saw
that one. See. Well, that kind of like brings us
to the nipple scale because I feel like, ultimately, for me, uh,
this movie would have worked a lot better for me
if it had been centered around her and not Landing.

(01:40:53):
You don't even need to get rid of Landing for
my I'm like, okay, it's a heteroteene romance whatever, like,
but but there's no reason other than the movie the
story is being told by Nicholas Sparks's authorial voice, that
the story is being told by Landon at all, Like
I don't it shouldn't be told by him. He can

(01:41:14):
be there, but it can't be his story. I don't
know which. Again, it makes her her burn his sister's
burned so much like I don't want you telling the
world about my life. I'm not going to read this
interpretation you had of me. So shall we shall we?
Shall we bust out that nipple scale. Let's do it.

(01:41:36):
Zero to five nipples based on examining the movie through
an intersectional feminist lens. I'm going to give this movie,
I don't know, like a one and a half, maybe
a two, maybe somewhere split in the middle of that.
I don't know. It's it's not high. It really adheres

(01:41:56):
to a lot of the tropes of like the teen
romance genre of like a boy nigging and being cruel
to a girl and wearing her down when he does
decide that she's worthy of him, and then falling in
love and still being shitty to her a lot of

(01:42:19):
the time. And yeah, the fact that, like you said, Jimmie,
it's that it's told from his point of view, even
though he doesn't have an interesting perspective on this narrative
at all. And I would much rather learn, like know
about what a like very devoutly Christian girl how she

(01:42:39):
feels about having a terminal illness. That's a way more
interesting story. I don't give a shit about landing like anyway.
So yeah, I think there's a lot of missteps, at least,
though it doesn't fall into the territory of like a
million racist and homophobic jokes that get made in a

(01:43:03):
lot of comparable movies of this era. But like, obviously
that bars so low that like, the movie doesn't deserve
to be congratulated for not doing that, but that but
that's why I was like, Oh, it's not as problematic
as I thought it was going to be. They compressed
it all into that one person, into Eric. Yeah, exactly,
um for justice for Eric. So yeah, that it's it's

(01:43:28):
not the worst example we've seen, but it's certainly not great.
So I'll give it. I'll give it one and a
half nipples. I'll give one nipple to Jamie Loftist. I
was gonna say this episode has been very stressful for
me overall. You guys, I keep being like, um, and

(01:43:49):
I'll get I'll give one nipple to you Jamie, and
my half nipple too. And wait, how does the song go?
And I'm thinking of listening to this and we're all
singing it in wildly different keys, and they're like, I'm

(01:44:10):
gonna have to like edit it so it like actually
sinks up because I think, could you please pitch correct
all three of us that were singing. Of course, I'll
put some auto tune onto at least my voice, because
I have the worst singing voice. Um. Yeah, so that
amazing song gets my half Nickel and uh yeah one

(01:44:31):
and a half. Yeah, I'll do one and a half
as well. I feel like, and I agree with We're
coming from Caitlin. I feel like this movie like shouldn't
be congratulated for what it dodges. I think the truly
the one thing that I felt like, oh, this movie
seems to be intentionally dodging this trope is the fact

(01:44:51):
that Jamie doesn't get this big makeover at any point
for core. You know, she doesn't do ah like Sandy
from Grease thing. She just like her personality changes, and
I think all of the asshole popular kids think she's
cool and you're like, why are we here? Um? But
you know, like Jamie retains her core values and qualities

(01:45:13):
and is loved for them, which I feel like is
a generally more positive message than most teen movies we're
giving us at that time. That is, I think like
the main strength of the movie, which I think I read,
was the director's hard choice, Like he made that a
strong rule, like I don't want to do a reveal.
I don't want to do shank Man, all right, Yeah

(01:45:35):
that makes me really happen, Like yeah, I I totally.
I mean, we've we've I think I criticized this movie
pretty from a lot of ankles, um Ultimately, I it
holds up way better than I thought it would. This
will not be the last time I watched this movie.
It feels it's just like a very comfort movie to watch.
And yeah, you know, her dream is to get married

(01:45:58):
will Gross whatever her right. I wish that we had
seen a more a better characterization of Landon's character and
that it wasn't so centered around him, because outside of
the fact that it's not really fair to Jamie's character,
it also like everything else going on in Landon's life
is really boring to me, and I don't care about

(01:46:19):
him and his father, except I love the scene where
he's mad at his father for not knowing the cure
to cancer. That's hilarious, but I don't care. It's also
another example of like a male redemption story, and not
that those can't be done well and aren't valuable, but
I don't think this was done well, nor was this

(01:46:39):
redemption earned to me, so I think it could have
been earned, which is kind of frustrating. It could have
been earned, but it wasn't. The way that the story
plays out, but iconic Mandy Moore performance. Love her, love
her high school soprano voice. That is literally a voice
you would hear on stage in a high school as

(01:47:00):
Mandy Moore style, like she is not singing from the
diaphragm at all, like it is it is. I love it.
Those were some of the things my voice teacher was
trying to correct right there, like trying not to sound
like Mandy Moore. But it's so easy to sound if
you just I don't know. I highly recommend Mandy Moore

(01:47:21):
is one of my favorite karaoke go toos because it's
so easy and it's so effective. I'm sure something to
give it one and a half and I'll give one
to Jamie Sullivan and then I'll give the other half
to Darryl Hannah's wig. Oh yes, good Sam, what about you? Yeah?

(01:47:42):
I mean I still on this viewing where I also
did you know an obsessive deep dive? Um. I'm really
just taking away and wanting to rewatch the film again
from the lens of you know, the brother of a
dying woman who's obsessed with her husband who's going out
of his way to marry a dead person. I feel

(01:48:02):
like that are dying person. Um, I feel like that
really makes everything make a little more sense. Um. And
I you know, I am gonna go high. I'm gonna
give it to nipples, and I'm going to give those
nipples to every person who got horny during this movie

(01:48:23):
as a kid or as an adult or whatever. Um,
because I do feel like, you know, I I don't
know how I feel as an adult in the entertainment
industry about they're being real chemistry between a sixteen seventeen
year old and a twenty three year old, but it is,
it is palpable, and for me it was a big

(01:48:45):
bisexual awakening. And I can't imagine I'm the only one
sure you're not. Yeah, It's like, it's just that the
industry should not present opportunities for that to be the
case for a under a age actor and a of
age actor. That should never be a thing where they're

(01:49:06):
on screen together in a romantic context and where the
crew is you know, aware there, everyone's aware of a
romance forming I r L and not inhibiting that because
it helps the performance, right, So if you had an awakening,
it's not your fault, it's but it is the fault

(01:49:27):
of the production for making those casting choices you're so anyway,
maybe it will make you feel better to know that
this movie made Mandy Moore get back into her religion.
So if you're feeling guilty about her horny nous, it

(01:49:48):
seems like she might have. She got she got to horny,
and then she's like, I need to go, I need
to find God again. She wasn't. The horny nous didn't
take her down a wicked path. I love great Andy Moore.
I hope she's not shitty is because I just I
love her. Although she was famously for a while watching

(01:50:10):
Me Asleep, which I didn't care for. That's kind of
that's kind of mean, and she's never apologized for that,
which I do think is very telling of her character.
I did very briefly meet her one time. She did
a show at Nerd Melt and I saw her and
showed her where the green room was. So she was

(01:50:31):
very nice, she seems to me in that moment, So
that means she's nice to everyone all the time forever.
That is how that works. Thank you so much for
being here, Sam, This was such a blast. I'm so
glad we did this movie. Thank you for having me.
I'm so honored. To be here. This is one of
my favorite podcasts and I love having these discussions. I

(01:50:53):
r l or on pod and I appreciate you guys
giving me the opportunity to kind of process this home
now as an adult. Oh anytime, any time, come on back.
Oh wait, I had one more connection to Titanic. Yes,
so we have the hot car, we have somebody dying
slowly and yeah switch Foot mentions Titanic that those are

(01:51:17):
my three got it? Yeah it's Cannon. Well there's I
would say there aren't enough Titanic connections in this movie,
but that's just me. Yeah, I could have I could
have staid to have a couple more and there was
room for it. And yeah they were they were like
weren't they seaside or somehow? There were boats there were

(01:51:38):
there were both. There's water, they go into the water.
They belly Some characters belly flop into the water in
both movies. There is there are there are near near
fatal belly flops, and there's a and there's a wearing
down relationship that we're rooting for and who is Belinda?
But cal Hockley played by Billy's Andrew makes you think,

(01:52:03):
makes you think Billy Zane should have been in this movie.
Alfred Molina could have played the priest Dad no offense
Peter Coyote, but he's already played. He was a priest
in Chuckle Law, so I guess he was like no, wait, no,
he was the mayor in Chuckle Law. He was a
priest in the Da Vinci Code. Back to Da Vinci. Yes,
oh my god, langdon, langdon. The Da Vinci code is Apple.

(01:52:28):
Never forget code was the word apple. I'm never I'm
never going to get over that. Sorry, Uh Sam? Where
can people follow you online and check out your stuff? Yeah?
I do live events online events this last year, but
you know, as things start to open, maybe more live

(01:52:49):
events in New York and l A as it's safe
my shows. My website is naked Comedy dot org. My
Twitter is at Naked Underscore Comedy. My Insta is at
Naked Comedy and yeah, support me if you can. I
try to do inclusive shows of people from all backgrounds.

(01:53:09):
I try to make sure that my performers are paid,
and I just am a solo entrepreneur trying to make
a modest, very modest living while supporting my fellow comedy friends.
Because comedy inspires me one of the greatest in the game. Also,

(01:53:29):
to be clear, just to set the record straight, I
named Naked Comedy after Naked Juice, so it's like authentic.
So just so if you're like, who's this naked comedy
chick like criticizing Christianity and talking about being horny, actually
it's not. That's not the vibe of all my stuff. Yeah,
you can find us on mine on all of the platforms,

(01:53:53):
on Twitter, on Instagram, not on TikTok, and probably never
on TikTok. Honestly, I don't. I used to download another application,
so complan. You can find us on Bechtel Cast on
Instagram and Twitter. You can sign up for our patreon
ak Matreon, in which you will get to bonus episodes
a month for only a mere five dollars, And there's

(01:54:16):
almost a hundred episodes hanging out there on on the Matreon.
There's a lot. There's a lot going on. I appreciate
when you guys release a few Matron episodes to the
free feed. I didn't know that that Matreon was primarily
recorded in bed. I feel like that's a big selling point.
I hopefully we can get back. We can get back

(01:54:37):
there because we it's been a year since we've recorded
Matreons in Caitlymb's bed specifically. Yeah, like you know, we'll
get back. It's been a really long time, but it's
been eighty four years. It's been eighty four years and
we can still smell the fresh paint. Thanks for tuning in.
Everyone will be here next week. Bye bye. Yeah

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