Barb and Star Go to Vista Del Mar with Kate Willet

Jamie and Caitlin go on vacation with special guest Kate Willett and spend the whole flight talking about Barb and Star Go to Vista Del Mar.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the dol Cast, the questions asked if movies have
women and um are all their discussions just boyfriends and
husbands or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef and
best start changing it with the Bedel Cast. Hi, welcome

(00:22):
to the Bechdel Cast. My name is Jamie Loftus, my
name is Caitlin Drante, and we're taking a trip. We
we we're recording in Vista del Mar. Yeah, we are,
are we? What is our generations? Uh? Cool lots? Is
there is that? Is that just like, is there a
pant for our generation that will qualifies cool lots? Or
is that just kind of timeless across generations? Do you

(00:44):
remember when gauchos were a big thing among vaguely there,
I remember like Capri's was like I think that's the
first that's the first distinct pant that I besides like
shorts that I remember being like, oh and like middle school,
like we would wear capris once it became March. Sure, right,

(01:06):
it might be. I mean gauchos were a thing for
maybe like two years when I was like a sophomorish
in college, so you might owner couchos. Describe these they're
basically the same thing as cool Lots, just with a
different name. They look very comfortable now that I'm like older.

(01:27):
I'm five years old now and like these pants, Like
I understand the appeal of cool. I used to make
fun of my mom's pants constantly, but it turns out
that they were she was She was right. I was wrong.
I was wearing like low rise jeans and had a
death wish. You know. So, this is our podcast where
we take a look at your favorite movies using an

(01:51):
intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechdel test as a jumping
off point for discussion. But what is that? Well, sometimes Himes,
it's when a woman named Barbe and another woman named
Star talk to each other about something other than a
man for most of the movie. Um, but I guess

(02:13):
more generally, our version of the test is when two
people of any marginalized gender with names speak to each
other about something other than a man and they have
a you know, meaningful conversation, meaningful to the to the narrative. Yeah,
and yeah, we're recovering Barb and Star go to Vista
del mart today. I'm so excited to cover this movie,

(02:37):
and we have an incredible guest with us. Oh my gosh,
we sure do here. That was that was my Midwest attempt.
I literally I did, okay, we I did check with
my my boyfriend's mom, who is a bona fide barbon
star type. I was like, is this do you feel

(02:58):
like seen by this? Do feel like made fun of
by this? And she was like, this is my favorite movie.
I love it so much. Like we gave her our
rental code for it and she flipped it is it
is Sarah from Racing Wisconsin approved And that's good enough
for me. Hell yeah. Our guest, though, is a comedian.

(03:21):
She has a new audiobook out called Dirtbag Anthropology. She's
the host of Reply Guys podcast. It's Kate Willett. Hello,
We're so we're so happy to have you again. I
cannot do this accent. We're so happy to have you. Yeah,
oh thank you. I'm really looking. I don't know. This

(03:44):
is like Tina Fains impression upstair, Palin, Yeah, yeah, so happy. Yeah,
thank you for bringing us this movie. Oh had you
not hear it? I felt like you had probably heard
of it because the person who told me about this
movie was Julia Claire, who I know is a solid

(04:06):
buddy of Jamie Loftus. I mean, yeah it was. It
was on my radar, but I hadn't seen it until
we started prepping for this episode. Yeah, me, neither. Actually,
I was just like this sounds good. Yeah, oh yeah.
I was so excited for this movie to come because
this this was like another movie that got pandemic, where
it was shot like two years ago, and I remember

(04:27):
seeing trailers for it like back when you could still
be in movie theaters, and and because I think it
was supposed to be like a summer movie last year,
and I was like, oh my god, that that looks
so good. I haven't seen Kristin Wig do something like
truly goofy and fun and so long. So we we
rented it the day it came out. It was awesome.

(04:48):
It was great. I love it, especially after Christian Wig.
I mean no, I we got a lot of requests
for Wonder Woman, and then we both watched it and
we were like, I don't I just felt nothing, and
I felt angry. I was like mad at how bad
I thought that movie was. And I was like, yeah,
I mean, maybe we'll cover it eventually, but I'm like

(05:09):
it is not a priority for me because that movie Stunt.
I heard it was really bad. It wasn't great, and
it was also like I don't know, it's always like
extra frustrating when it's like someone that you know, like
I don't know, Christian Wig plays like the Big Bad
in that movie, and it's just like she's boring in it.
I'm like, how did you make her boring? Like that's

(05:29):
a that's a you problem, Patty Jenkins. Sorry, remember when
she plays a weird character and mother exclamation point? Oh
I god, I try not to think about mother exclamation point,
but that is true. And she's also I mean, she
went through We've talked about this, like I think in
our Crazy Stupid Love episode where it's like when the

(05:49):
like super successful comedian goes through like a phase of
movies that are all like very serious indies and some
of them are good and some of them were like what, um,
somebody had that phase. She's also, wasn't she in The Martian?
Was she? I don't remember. Have I lost touch with reality?
I don't know, it doesn't I don't remember that movie

(06:11):
very well. I'm pretty sure. And she's in her She's
in a lot of like real slow birds. Yeah. Anyways,
this movie is a movie I actually enjoy, like all
the ones we just listed, right, Yeah, yeah, I I too.
I mean, you know me, I love a romp and
this movie is like the textbook definition of a romp.

(06:34):
And out of ten on Caitlin's rampometer, the rampometer, I believe. Yes,
I'm so sorry. Yeah, what a what? I wasn't sure
exactly what to expect. I was. I think I was
picturing kind of like a Girl's Trip esque narrative in

(06:55):
the sense that, like two people go on vacation and
they have a vacation. I is not expecting there to
be like an evil mastermind villain. I wasn't expecting an
evil revenge plot about killer mosquitoes. Like, yeah, it was fun.
This was like it felt like it was one of
those scripts where it just was like written in a

(07:16):
state of like a very open mind of like what
could we put in this movie, like Sky's the Limit,
killer mosquitoes, an underground layer, you know, every south. It
was just really funny. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well, I guess
I should just get into the recap and then we'll
go from there, shall we. Oh yeah, and Kate feel

(07:36):
free to jump in at any time. The recap is
a safe space. Okay, So we open on a young
paper boy. This is Yo Yo. He is delivering newspapers
around a neighborhood and then he enters the layer of
Sharon Gordon Fisherman, whose name like I had to pull

(08:01):
that from IMDb because I was not sure if we do.
We hear her name, and then we call her share
in a couple of times. But yeah, I just kept
thinking of her as like bad Kristen Wig. Right, Yes,
she is played by Kristen Wig. She's like a super
villain type. And she reveals plans to unleash a swarm
of genetically engineered killer mosquitoes into an as yet undisclosed

(08:27):
small town. Then we cut to Barb and Star. That's
Annie Mamolo and Kristen Wig, respectively. They live in soft Rock, Nebraska.
Soft Rock. I love that so much good. This movie does,
like really reward reviewing as because I've never seen it
three times. Uh, there's something new and fun in like

(08:51):
the super specific details every time. Indeed, Yeah, they are
very stereotypical Western women in their forties types. They are
best friends. They are also roommates, which I did not
pick up on the first time. I watched it. Um,
but they lived together and they share a bedroom, which

(09:13):
is so funny, like Lucy and Ricky style. Yeah, thats
like separate full sized beds. They work at a furniture store,
which they get let go from because the whole chain
has closed seven months ago. Seven months ago. They also
get kicked out of their talking club, which is funniest

(09:39):
joke I've ever heard, and like full of like recognizable
like great female character actors. There's so many good it was, Yeah,
just wonderful. I love this Talckey club so much, like
it's like a book club, but it's a talking club.
No books. Yeah, booklet for women who I've never read

(10:00):
a book before. Watching Vanessa bearbe so extremely cruel to
whoever was locked out of talking club is so good.
I kept wondering who was like doing the voice of Gail,
the woman who gets locked out. I forgot to look
it up though. Also that um that the hot dog
soup triggered my fight or flight reflex, because so, I

(10:24):
mean it's like and I've seen I know that that's
like poking fun at Midwestern food, some of which is
genuinely baffling to me and very thick it's rich. A
lot of textra dishes out there. I honestly like would
eat that soup though, Yeah, that is delicious, is the
thing too, It just like looks like it's already been eaten.

(10:44):
Y Yeah. Anyway, So Barb and Star are kind of
down on their look at the moment, and they also
realized that all the fun times that they used to
have together were from years before, and they feel that
they've lost their shimmer. So when their friend tells them

(11:06):
about a vacation she just took to Vista del Mar, Florida,
they decide to take a trip together as well. Meanwhile,
Sharon Gordon Fisherman gives one of her henchman Edgar played
by Jamie Dornan uh a microchip which he will need
to activate the receiver, which is going to attract all

(11:28):
of the killer mosquitoes, which is confusing and also doesn't
super matter if you don't fully write process the plot.
It was very Black Mirror that element, you know. It
was like kind of like Austin Powers meets Black Mirror.
I also loved the Jamie Dornan casting, like it was
such a like watching it again last night, I was like, well,

(11:51):
it's such a like because I feel like that's happen.
I'm trying to think of other examples of like a
guy who is mostly known for being hot all of
a sudden, like you're like, oh wait, and he's pretty
entertaining and he's trying so hard in this movie in
a way that it like and I mean that is
like a compliment where if he knew he was funny,
the performance wouldn't be like as good. I feel like

(12:13):
he's performing as if he's like is this working, like
full commitment, Like yeah, yeah. I feel like another example
of that would be Um. One of the Chris is
Chris Hemsworth in his role in The Ghostbusters when he's
like this goofy guy. I vaguely remember that because we

(12:35):
covered that movie, but I feel like it just it
just left my body. When that's acceptable hot guy trying
to be funny. Um, you know, it's hit or miss,
but sometimes it in. It worked with Jamie Dornan. It
works because Yeah, the only thing I've ever seen him
in was like the fifties Shades trilogy, and I was like,

(12:58):
oh Jesus, I refused to watch those movies, but that
is so funny that he's famous for is like being
like the hitting guy and then no, he's like this
like a you know, very gentle character who was obsessed
with being in an official relationship. Yeah, that was my
favorite part of the entire movies. It's so funny. Yeah.

(13:20):
I also I just just a quick Jamie dorn in fact,
because I knew nothing about this man. I also detested
the Fifty Shades movies and everyone's bad in those movies
because the movies are bad. Um. But he started as
a model, which I guess isn't super surprising. But there
was a time in the early two thousands where he
was known as the Golden Torso the New York Times.

(13:43):
So he's it's like, I don't know. I mean, we
talked about women being objectified a lot, but yeah, he
The New York Times declared him the Golden Torso okay,
two thousand one, so you know, shout out to the
Golden Torso. Good for him. I feel like, by the
time you give a nickname involving the word torso, there's

(14:04):
there's just no gray area with are you objectifying this person?
You know what I mean? Like piece by piece literally right?
But I love it. I'm thrilled that the Golden torso
got to like show his skills. This is his time.
I mean talking about a shimmer like he is shimmering
all over this movie. Cute accent too, that was my I.
When I saw his picture, it was like, I'm not

(14:27):
going to have a celebrity crush on him, But when
I heard the accent, I was starting to feel more
flexible on that point. He's Irish in real life, right,
he is from Northern Ireland. And also I couldn't tell him.
I was like, is he like trying to do because
there in some scenes and like is he trying to
sound American right now? Like his accent is like all

(14:49):
over the place. But I just don't care. I love it.
He's the son of a gynecologist. Listen, I read his
whole Wikipedia page. There are so many things I relate
too about this guy. Already perfect poor so colleges, former model,
I had the same life. Yeah, he's an everyman um

(15:14):
so he has been given this like microchip or whatever
which he will take to Vista del Mar and activate
because that's going to attract the killer mosquitoes. And also,
like you mentioned, Kate Edgar is in love with Sharon
and all he wants is to be an official couple
with her, but it's clear that she is stringing him

(15:36):
along and that she doesn't want to be an official
couple with him. So then Barbin star fly to Vista
del Mar. On the flight, they talk about an imaginary
woman named Trish the whole flight tragically died, who tragically
died and turned into a water spirit. And I only

(15:57):
mentioned that now because we've out a Chekhov's Trish happening.
Um Goddess ex machina right right. And then there's this
whole thing where they like, they go to the wrong
hotel and it turns out there staying in a crummy motel.
But then they managed to get a room in the

(16:18):
nice hotel after all, and that's where Edgar is staying,
and they meet him when they're all drinking at the
hotel bar, and they end up hanging out with him
all night. They drink a bunch, they take drugs, They
dance to a techno remix of My Heart Will Go On.
And as soon as that's where I became convinced that, yeah,

(16:40):
that's like because that's like thirty five minutes in, and
like I liked, I was like this is a really
funny movie, like up until that point, but as soon
as I heard like Doo Doo, Doo doo, I was like,
this movie is for me. Well, the music that I
loved in this was they had Richard Cheese in the movie. Yes,

(17:01):
Richard Cheese is such a kind of classic gen X guy,
you know what I mean. Like it felt like perfect
to like their age, and you know, it was great.
I remember like a boy in high school being like
showing me Richard Cheese because his like uncle had showed
him and being really blown away like Richard Cheese and

(17:25):
the Mighty Bush was just like it. Yeah, I was.
It was so nice to see him. I was like, wow,
like gen Z gets Richard Cheese. Now, good for them, Okay.
So they danced to all this music together and then
they spend the night together and Edgar leaves the next morning,
but oh no, he's lost the micro chip which activates

(17:48):
the mosquito thing or something or something. So Sharon has
to call this like secret spy man who she knows
to come in and fix Edgar's mistake. Q Edgar singing
a song which goes something along the lines of sea

(18:10):
goes in the sin Can you hear my prayer and
oh my god, it's the best part of the movie.
I think it's great. Yeah, there's I don't know if
this has been mentioned so far, but there are multiple
musical numbers in this film. It's not a musical, but
it is music inclusive. Yeah, because there's that big that

(18:31):
big number when they first got to the hotel and
then they found out at the motel and the songs,
and a number is exactly the right sort for it.
It is a number. It is a number, a show
stopper fifteen minutes then m rouge, but like like midwestern
Mulan rouge. It really is like so fun to see,

(18:55):
like just see what people do if they have enough
money to do what ever they think is funny, because
then then just very much feels like what this movie is.
It's like, Wow, we could actually get a budget to
do what like the weirdest ship we can think of. Great. Um,
So Edgar sings his song, which is my favorite part

(19:16):
of the movie. I listened to it on repeat this morning. Um. Meanwhile,
Barb and Star are pretending to have forgotten all about
Edgar from the night before, but they secretly both went
to see him again. So first, Barbe sneaks out to
go talk to him, but then she realizes that her
and Edgar aren't really meant to be and she values

(19:37):
her friendship with Star more than a man, so she
goes back to her in Star's room, but then Star
goes out to meet up with Edgar has a very similar,
if not identical, conversation to the one that Barbe and
Edgar just had, But then he and Star have sex,

(19:58):
which is a secret a Star keeps from Barbe. I
do love that, do that? Like Barb is such a
like champion. She's like, I can't do this, like I
need to respect my friend, and then Stars like, um,
we can only fuck twice? Yeah I will, and they like,

(20:20):
I feel like we skipped over. Did they also fucked
each other in the three Zone? Because I thought that
was a brave pie. It's like they had sex together
in the first night and reference to sex and it
was I thought that was kind of an interesting aspect
of that. They portrayed it as kind of a no
big deal. Oh yeah, yeah, is so yeah that they

(20:42):
move on immediately, Like if you left two pe, you
would not know that they sucked each other. It never
comes up again, really right. Yeah, they're just normalizing having
three sons with your friends. Meanwhile, Sharon's associate, a spy
by the name of Darley Bunkle played by Damon Wayne's Jr.
Contacts Edgar to assist him. I love that. I love

(21:06):
the scene where they're on the phone scene is my favorite.
I think his first scene where it's like no, I
have to go. Oh, he's great. And then back at
Sharon's lair, she explains her backstory to Yo Yo, which
is that when she was young, her family moved to
Vista del Mar, where she was bullied for her pale skin,

(21:30):
and then after an incident which like utterly humiliated her,
caused her father to suffer a heart attack and die
and caused her mother to leave her, and she got
launched onto a Disney Cruise ship out of a cannon. Uh.
Sharon vowed to seek revenge on all of the residents

(21:53):
of Vista del Mar, hence this big revenge plot. As
a child, she very much it's like full on Wednesday
Adam's aesthetic. Yeah, yeah, I I have some things to
say about all of that. I was curious if we're
going to talk about that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll
get there. Meanwhile, Star sneaks off to spend more time

(22:13):
with Edgar, and then while that's happening, Barb is doing
a bunch of like fun stuff that she and Star
were supposed to do together. They both feel really bad
about lying to each other, and then Barbe finds out
about Star's love affair with Edgar, and Edgar is about
to like call off the whole Mosquito plan because he's

(22:35):
falling out of love with Sharon and in love with Star.
But anyone who's in Kristen Wiggs body, he's right, well,
I feel like to be fair. That feels like what
a lot of us do, like, you know, for me,
it's not christ and Wiggs body, but it's like some

(22:56):
unkempt man with Beard, you know, just like switch him out.
He's got a type. He's got a type. But then
Sharon convinces Edgar that Barb and Star are spies and
that he needs to kill them. Meanwhile, Barbon Star confront
each other about lying, but then Edgar comes in and

(23:17):
ties them up, and then Sharon abducts them. Alligators are
about to eat them, but they managed to escape with
the help of their cool lots, which if you're not
familiar and you haven't seen the movie. First of all,
go see the movie. But they're these like very flowy
capri type pants that are like very skirt and shorts

(23:39):
mixed together. Basically, I didn't know that that's what those
were called until this movie. They go by many names.
Maybe I don't know. I think I'm gonna buy some.
I know's I mean, they can truly save your life. Yeah,
as we see in this movie. One of my favorite
back told test passes of this movie was Kristin Winn

(24:00):
telling the other Kristen Wig to jump off a cliff. Yeah,
it's it was a very feminist moment of the film.
It's incredible. So then they run off to stop the
mosquito attack, but oh no, Sharon had already triggered the
receiver to attract all the mosquitoes. So then they fight
with Sharon in the middle of the ocean. The mosquitoes

(24:22):
attack Sharon and then Barb and Star are brought safely
back to land by Trish, the water spirit lady who
they had brought up on their flight, who is played
by Reba McIntyre. And then Sharon shows back up with
like all these mosquito bites, but then she learns the
power of friendship and she becomes friends with all of

(24:45):
the residents of Vista del Mar and then Barb and
Star get their shimmer back and they ride a banana
boat together and that's the end of the movie. Love it.
So let's take a quick break and then we will
come back to discuss and we're back. We're back, Kevin,

(25:12):
you brought this up during the recap, so I kind
of just wanted to like touch on it at the top,
the stuff with Sharon's back story doing because they're so
I have so many um compliments to shower on this movie,
so I think let's let's start with the stuff that
um I guess. Yeah, so for me, And this is

(25:32):
something that we talked about pretty recently on our divincion. Okay, yes,
we're going to say on the same page. Yes, yes, yes,
so that was a Matreon episode. But what we brought
up then and now is the trope of the evil
albino villain character. And while Sharon Gordon Fisherman doesn't specifically

(25:54):
have albinism, because she has a made up condition called
pigment tosh Tadia degenera hysterica white Skinneka, this condition seems
to have pretty similar characteristics of albinism, and because she
is the villain of this movie, I feel like we
could pretty safely like put her in the category of

(26:17):
this trope, which is obviously very harmful and its depiction
of people with albinism, portraying them as being villainous, untrustworthy,
ill intentioned. Yeah, I totally agree with you. It is
definitely a trope we see all all the time. I
mean there's I think movies that weaponize this trope to

(26:39):
varying degrees, and the Da Vinci Code and Barbon Star
are certainly very different weaponizations of this trope. But it's
just like kind of stunningly lazy, given how thoughtful so
many elements of the movie is, and it and it,
and it just like does end up kind of coming
off as a lazy, ablest choice that feels like it's

(27:03):
fifteen years old, even though most of the movie, for
we felt so modern, and I would be interested in
hearing what listeners think, particularly listeners with albinism. Well, I mean,
even beyond that, it's also just like the trope of
like the villain is the person who doesn't look like
everyone you know, or the villain of somebody with some

(27:27):
kind of medical condition, you know, it's kind of ablest. Yeah, definitely. Yeah,
she's mothered in this particular way. And because she has
such pale skin, she's got like pale eyes, she has
an extreme sensitivity to the sun. Yeah, it felt to me,
even though again they don't identify it as albinism, I

(27:47):
think it's yeah, definitely coded. Yeah, so I was very
disappointed to see that in a movie that came out
this year. You would think that we've you know, we've
moved past that, but yeah, it turns out no, Yeah, yeah,
I agree, And and it's especially frustrating in a movie
that like avoid so many tropes that would have been

(28:10):
very easy in like a movie with this tone. Yeah,
like mothering, your villain is always going to have connotations
to it, and like, I mean, no one else in
the movie is is mothered in that way. Yeah exactly.
I was. Yeah, I was like put off by that.
I still really like the movie, but I was like, oh, really,

(28:32):
come up, Like why so that I didn't love um?
The other thing that kind of I was like, oh
really this is in the movie was there's there's a
Morgan Freeman joke. Yeah, that was I was just like,
that's what year was this script written? Because yeah, I'm
just like, did they not get the memo that he

(28:54):
has a history of like harassing women on movies sets?
Did did they not? I don't know. So yeah, I'm
surprised to see that there. I wish it could have
been any other old actor, you know, like and you
would have had the same joke. I also felt like
the I forgot that the child's name yo yo yo yo. Yeah,

(29:16):
that was kind of uh. I don't know that. There
was definitely aspects of his depiction that felt like they
were heavily relying on stereotypes along those lines. I felt
too that like there's a couple of moments in the
movie where there's there's a music cue that sounds like
kind of native flute and drumming, yeah, which like the

(29:42):
Tommy Bahama stuff mostly, And I'm interested to hear what
our native listeners think about that, but to me, it
feels like just kind of like a weird and like
appropriative thing to have in a movie with no native
people it. Yeah, so just yeah, just like lazy writing too,

(30:04):
just not Yeah, I think he was supposed to be
like some kind of shaman, but like of of what
you know, it's just like the kind of general magical
shaman guy. You know. It's also I didn't I don't
know why I didn't realize on my first watch that
that was literally Andy Garcia. But it's also he's not

(30:26):
credited as Andy Garcia, is credited to Oh my God.
So I think maybe that's why. Not to brag or anything,
but I did recognize him as Andy Garcia. I just
have an eye for Andy. Um. Yeah, there, and and

(30:46):
those aspects. I mean that the three things that we
just touched on, it did feel like the elements because
this very much feels like an SNL movie to me,
even though it isn't. And those moments kind of like
paying the part of your brain that, like most SML
movies do not hold up for reasons like this of
like a huge plat point that is extremely homophobic, a

(31:09):
huge plot point that is extremely racist that you know,
most of those movies, even for fans of them, like
they you can't really make much of an argument for
large aspects of them. And I mean they're they're smaller
in this movie, but they're definitely still present. Yeah, right,
I mean the movie is also like I mean, like

(31:31):
all all four main characters are white people too. It's like,
I mean, I get, like, you know, the whole thing
is that they're from the Midwest and stuff, but yeah,
that's not like what the whole Midwest is, you know. Yeah,
the Midwest is like, I mean, not as diverse as
other areas of the country, but it's not all white people.

(31:51):
And there were definitely like opportunities for there to be
more diversity because it's like, I mean, even in Talking Club,
I think the only person who isn't white is um
Rose ab Do, who is one of my favorite character actors.
Have been watching her since she was on Gilmore Girls. Okay, y, yeah,

(32:14):
there aren't that many characters of color, and the ones
who are present in the story are relegated to more
like secondary or tertiary characters. So I was also honestly surprised.
I guess we're just going to get all our agreements
out at the top. I was, honestly, this isn't even
really a criticism. I was just surprised that this movie
was directed by a guy. I like, it's such a

(32:38):
movie centered on middle aged women that I was like
that I just I didn't even realize, like realize until
later on. I was like, oh, this is directed by
a guy named Josh. Just would not have expected that
in this case. Yeah, I mean directed by a guy.
That's one thing, a guy named Josh. That's even an
escalation right there, you know that, that's twisting the knife. Yeah.

(33:03):
Written though by Kristen Wig and Annie Mamlow, and the
movie also has a number of producers who are women,
including Jessica Elbaum, who founded Gloria Sanchez Productions, which is
a production company that focuses on producing female driven comedy projects.
Oh yeah, they also did book Smart Hustlers. Those are

(33:25):
the good ones. Yeah right, yeah, so um, but I
was similarly surprised that a man would have been hired
to direct this movie. So, you know, let's talk about
the fun parts. Yeah, let's do it. I love that

(33:45):
this is a movie about friendship between women. I love
this is that this is a movie about women in there,
like mid forties finding their shimmer because they feel like
they're kind of just fading away and they want to
rediscover themselves and like reignite their excitement for life. This

(34:07):
is like a version of Eat, Pray Love that I enjoy. Yeah,
it's not it's not so self serious. Obviously, you know,
this is a pretty small thing. But one of my
favorite parts of this movie was the relationships self help
books that the characters are reading, the Sharon's reading one

(34:28):
and Edgar's reading one. And I think that the one
that Edgar's reading is called something like how to feel
like someone loves you even when they don't show it
most of the time, and that Sharon's book is like
how to convince someone you love them to get them
to do what you want. And I just, I don't know,

(34:48):
that's very it's really small, but I think that that
was like a funny takedown of that the whole self
help industry, which is often you know, market into women
in like a pretty sex ist way a lot of
the time, you know, like versions of like hears how
to be you know, more appealing to man or accommodate
man or something in some way, And so I definitely

(35:11):
thought it was funny that they got a dig in
at that. Yeah. Yeah. Similarly, I liked that there was
kind of like a role reversal in terms of you
see this man pining after the love and affection of
this like evil mastermind woman. I feel like that's not
something you see that much in terms of like especially

(35:34):
like a hot former model, former Golden torso Jamie dorn Is. Yeah,
he's unapologetically sentimental. Ongoing way, we're referring to his relationship
aspirations as being an official couple, an official couple like
a fifteen year old. Yeah, but it's the kind of

(35:54):
thing that like, you know, like women openly expressing a
design are for you know, like commitment or sense of
mentality is often portrayed. It's like, you know, there's, oh,
there's something wrong with her, you know. And I thought
that it was Yes, I agree that it was very
fun role reversal in this movie. Yeah, especially because he

(36:16):
does he still respects her boundaries. He's always like, are
you ready to maybe become an official couple yet, Like
he's not like wearing her down or like hounding her
or like just like being really obsessive. But I mean
he's kind of obsessive, but he's not like he's still
like doing this kind of from a distance. Yeah, he's anxious,

(36:37):
but he's not creepy, you know. Yeah. Yeah, Yeah, And
I liked that those are the aspects of Sharon's character
that I really liked was like how I mean, it's
like no one should be emotionally manipulative in a relationship,
but it was a fun reversal to see, like and
like you're saying Kate with with the self help books,
and also just like in general, there are even though

(37:00):
one of even though Star does end up in a
relationship with Edgar, I felt like, especially for a movie
about middle aged women who are they're not mothers. They're
like not the type of middle aged female character that
you're kind of used to seeing, especially leading a movie.
And they don't make any of the easy, like lazy

(37:23):
choices that you would make with a character like that.
They're not like pining for a husband, They're not like
where are my children? Like it's just such a simple
premise of like, well, I am middle aged and I
want to figure myself out, and like I I feel
like I've lost touch with myself. And they're also they
seem generally more concerned about how other women view them

(37:47):
than really anyone else. They're worried about each other, they're
worried about how the talking club perceives them, and it
was just like a cool so I don't know, it's
like you never see that. Yeah, And I just to
kind of piggyback off that, Like, I thought it was
cool that they were both on journeys of self actualization.
And then you see, you know, Barbe's character, her journey

(38:10):
of self actualization is solo, it's involving like a lot
of adventures, and stars journey is like a relationship journey.
She's opening her heart to love and experiencing that vulnerability again.
And I felt like the film did not make any
sort of value judgment about which of those is better,

(38:32):
you know, and like that's good because I often feel
like even feminism asked us to kind of you know,
like either it's like independence it's good, or you know,
a relationship is good, or you know, like and it's
just it's like often presented as very like feminist versus
not feminist, and in reality, most of us have both desires,

(38:52):
you know, not everyone. But um, yeah, it was just
it was just cool to see the film kind of
not like Barbe's journey. It's not a joke, it's not pathetic.
You know. Uh, Star's journey is not weak. I just
really liked that. Yeah. Yeah, and an element of Star's Journey.
I mean it's only mentioned in kind of one scene,

(39:12):
but I like when I was watching it to prepare
for for this episode, I especially appreciated it was like
Star also talked about like her body image and like
how she as she was getting older, she was feeling unlovable.
She felt like she was never going to be loved again.
And then she says like the line is super goofy,
but it was like it's where she's like, you saw

(39:33):
my like folds and whole, you weren't bothered by any
run away, and it's like it's a it's I don't know,
it's my favorite kind of joke because it's funny, but
it's not at her expense, and the response to it
is not cruel. And he's just like, yeah, like Edgar
is such a good active listener. Um, and I like that, Like,

(39:56):
I mean, it's not like harped on, but it is
like referee instant away that felt like, I don't know,
like genuine and funny. I liked it. Let's take another
quick break and then we'll come right back and we're back. Um.

(40:18):
You mentioned this in the in the recap Kate, but
the fact that they like they have that like steamy
threesome together the first night that they meet Edgar, and
it's clear that, like you know, the Barb and Star,
we're doing sex things to each other, and that they
do not make a deal of it at all in

(40:39):
the aftermath, which like again is like that would have
been like an easy slash lazy choice that a lot
of comedies have done. So I'm so glad that they
did not do that in this movie. I'm thinking particularly
of a scene in the movie Transplanes and Automobiles where
Steve Martin and John Candy they have to sleep in
the same bed and they wake up like spooning each other,

(41:01):
and as soon as they realize that they are like
embracing each other, they both dash out of bed and
like are like, oh my god, gross. They didn't they
didn't even have sex the way that like Bartman Start did,
but they just made physical counts. They just like touched
each other and then yeah, and then but they're like
flipping out that they even like we're hugging like holding

(41:24):
each other. Yea. So yeah, I really liked that they
just very normalized like a couple of friends like getting
freaky on vacation with each other. Yeah, and they don't
like it's not a deal, but they don't not talk
about it, Like they referenced the specific things they did
together in bed and you know and fun, and just
like they were talking about it the same way that

(41:46):
they talk about their their other vacation adventures, you know,
nothing weird. Yeah, yeah, they acknowledged it happened, but like
they're like, this isn't anything where like grossed out by,
are ashamed of so yeah, they just they're just like
and now we change the subject to seashells or whatever.
Turtles turtles. Yeah. And I like how the way that

(42:07):
they deal with conflict too felt really good because that's
like another area where I feel like you could get
you know, like a lesser writing team could get super
lazy with how women are in conflict are so often
written in these kind of like broad tropes. But I
liked it. I mean, I thought, like, you know it,
they are on these solo journeys, and I feel like

(42:28):
that I didn't even really register this the first time
I watched it, but it's like, oh, that is a
part of their journey, is like having to be less
reliant on each other and like growing as individuals and
not being so you know, codependent in some ways, but
also still having that friendship. And when they find out
they've been lying to each other, I love that they
can't lie like that being established at the beginning is

(42:51):
so funny at talking club. Um, but you know it's
like that they're obviously piste off at each other, but
then they have these like two beautiful forgiveness scenes after
the cool lots and again when they think that they're
going to die right before Trish rescues them. Yeah, it's
so cute, and you know, I mean it's also like, um,

(43:11):
they have there and this I think this is what
you're also saying, Jamie. Like they have their fight, they
do express like the full range of their anger and
their sense of betrayal. But it's not it's not in
like this cat fight way. You know. It's like how
real human beings engaged in serious conflicts when there's a
portrayal of trust, right, which is cool because it happens

(43:34):
in between all this like ridiculous ship where like the alligators.
The alligators. I love the scene where right right before
their fight, like they're tied together and they're like slowly
escaping and Jamie Dornan just like doesn't notice because he's
talking about himself, and yeah, that's so funny. It's so good. Well,

(43:55):
that's one of the things that I absolutely love about
this movie, which is you get this like extremely goofy
movie where I know, it's not just a goofy movie,
it's an extremely goofy movie where women are the leads.
Because like a lot of comedy movies where a woman

(44:15):
is the lead or where women are the lead characters,
they are often rom coms, and a lot of rom
coms are not actually very funny. There I said it, Like,
this movie actually has jokes, and it's like a rare
example of an absurdist comedy that is female driven, because

(44:36):
most absurdist comedy, which I think is like my favorite
subgenre of comedy, Like I love absurdism, they're so male dominated.
Not a lot of room has been made for women
in this sub genre, at least like not much in
like in the mainstream. So I love that this is
just like it's so silly. You get to see women

(44:59):
being very goo fee. A lot of very goofy silly
things happen in the movie, and I was just eating
it up. Yeah, I agree that another another thing that
I liked about I don't know, the Barb, Star and
Edgar triangle, like the their dynamics. I was like, Oh,
there's like so much interesting stuff there because it's like

(45:21):
it just other things that could have happened but then didn't.
It's like we've talked about this before, but like Edgar
is never creepy. He's usually just listening and is maybe
just like not the smartest person in the world, and
it doesn't always pick up on other people's signals. And
on top of that, like in that sequence where like
Barb and Star basically go on the same sort of
date with Edgar that they both like I don't know,

(45:45):
like they just pursue him extremely directly, like without a
hint of like insecurity or like they just show up
like doing the splits, like let's hang out doing like
yoga poses outside his door. I loved that, Like it's
just so funny. I really. I mean, first of all,

(46:06):
I love that he's like nine or ten years younger
than them, like Jamie Dornan is than Annie Mamlo and
Kristen Wiggs. So again, you we talk about the age
gap in Hollywood a lot where there's again just a
tendency to have aging men and they're like female co

(46:26):
stars will be like twenty five years younger than them,
and it's rare to see like an older woman and
a younger man. So I appreciated that you have that
just representation on screen. And they don't mention it either.
They're not like, whoa cougar? You know? Right? Yeah? Right, yeah,
it's just normalized. And then I really like when when

(46:49):
Barb is talking to Edgar on their like little walk
about around Vista del Mar and she's like, oh, you
know what, actually, you've set me free, like our night together,
Like that set me free. But that's all this was.
She like realizes that she just needed like this sex
romp to like be the catalyst that gets her to

(47:12):
realize that she like can go off and do fun stuff,
but that she's not like pining after him, maybe the
same way that like Kristin Weig is more interested in
him romantically. But I like that Dong touched her heart
right exactly does that does happen? Um? So I like

(47:33):
that even though they're like connection between the three of
them initiates in this sexual encounter for all of them
all at the same time. In this threesome, but that like,
there isn't like a love triangle after that, you know,
even though it does seem like they will continue to
all three of them will be living together back in

(47:53):
Soft Rock, Nebraska, which I love. Like that would honestly
be the dream life. Like if I got to live
with like a partner and my best friend was also there,
wouldn't that be great? Yeah? I hope they don't change
the layout of their house at all, and just Jamie
Dornants in Stars then but they still all share a room. Yeah,
Oh my gosh. Yes, he joins the Talking Club. Oh

(48:17):
he would. I feel like he'd be a hit there. Yeah,
it's very something. I mean, the Golden Torso those ladies
are going to gobble him up. He would let Phyllis
talk about horses. God, those cutaways, they're great. Just like
another thing that just made me laugh, The story of
how Barbe's husband thought is so funny where he's like

(48:41):
a Rhodeo star but he got trampled but it was
at a like a Black Friday sale. It's so good.
There's so many And like you said, Jamie, every time
you watch this movie, you like pick up on like
subtle jokes that you didn't notice the first time. It's
just this movie is so funny. Yeah, I'm so glad
to dig this, and I hope that I hope that

(49:03):
it's like been successful enough that there will be, you know,
other opportunities like this made for um, for other women
and hopefully not a white women, you know, like and
and sort of open the open the floodgates to movies
like this because it is I mean, I guess that
I can't say for sure whether it's like Bridesmaids is

(49:26):
like v movie that Kristen Wig and any Mamola wanted
to make, but I do feel like there is this
kind of tendency where it just takes women, even after
they've been very successful, like way longer to be able
to make like this is the thing I've always wanted
to do if I could make anything, because Christen Wigg
has been you know, she's been around for at least

(49:47):
fifteen years, extremely successful, and it's like just this year
that you see like her like ridiculous absurd art project
come out, and I feel like, you know, that tends
to come much earlier for men. And yeah, just like
it would be cool if if women and you know,
all people who weren't young white guys got that got

(50:09):
those same level of opportunities at the same pace, which
is not true, you know. Yeah, yeah, I also think
that I don't know if I recall correctly, but I
feel like Kristen Wigg is from kind of like a
normal background and was not a super rich person. I
don't know. That could be wrong, but yeah, I know
that that is true. It feels like the people who

(50:31):
are like sons and daughters of Hollywood are able to
get those opportunities at an accelerated pace. Yeah. Yeah, I
think that they're like Annie Mamma and Kristen Wigg are
both from like pretty like standard middle class backgrounds um
back when the middle class was the thing. And yeah,
and they and they both became successful in their thirties

(50:53):
and like just all, I mean that their career trajectories
are really cool. And I just I just from a
sentimental point of like, that's so cool that like when
best friends make a movie, I love it. It's very fun. Yeah.
I also learned that Christen Maig had twins last year.
Holy shit, that's amazing via a surrogate. She and her

(51:17):
husband had twins. She's got tiny babies at her house.
I just learned so much on scholarly Journal Wikipedia this week. Um,
I don't have a lot of Yeah, I don't really
have much else. I would just say, you know, watch
the movie. There's some things in it that field dated, uh,

(51:41):
that I was disappointed to see. But for the most part,
this is a romp. This is a very funny movie.
The themes and in the kind of takeaways from it
are again just like things that we don't get to
see that much of. And I hope, yeah, that this
movie kind of helps pave the way for more movies

(52:05):
like it's to be made and again, yeah, just open
up doors for just more diverse and inclusive movies. Again,
like specifically absurdist comedies. Let's see more like women driven
absurdist comedies, women from all backgrounds, people of marginalized genders

(52:26):
from all backgrounds. We need more of it. Agree with
actual budgets too, because you can tell this movie had
like a budget ridiculous the production design with all of
like the very like saturated colors and yeah, it's like

(52:46):
I was looking at the poster and I was like,
this was like reminiscent of like a Lisa Frank I
used to have like yeah, yeah, but yeah, I didn't
really have any anything else. No, I yeah, I UM,
I really enjoyed this movie. I agreed that it There
are the elements of it that are dated are super

(53:07):
frustrating because it seems at so many places to have
conscientiously avoided dated tropes, and so there are moments where
you're like, oh, these are you know, gen X white
women who maybe should have consulted some people. Yeah, yeah,
it's true because it was very highlighted because they did
handel like, there was so much about it that felt

(53:30):
so original and fresh. You know that the parts of
it that were dated or you can just clich you
didn't really stand out like a sore thumb. But I
still love this movie. Yeah. Yeah, it passes the backtal
test obviously, Like except for when they're talking about Edgar.
Basically the entire time they're talking about all sorts of

(53:52):
wild ship Trish, they have a whole turtles Turtles of
turtles were led to believe that they spend I'm guessing
what would be like as four to five hour flight
talking about a woman named Trish that they made up.
The entire time they're talking about seashells and their friendship
bracelets and just every doesn't pass the Bechtel test. But

(54:15):
one of my favorite exchanges was about Kermit's little frog legs. Yeah, well,
does Kermit count as as a guy? I think so,
don't identify as a as a let me check. I
don't know if a non human mail is a good question.
I didn't remember to pay super close attention to this,

(54:37):
but I feel like the movie does not pass the
reverse Spechtel test in that men I think don't talk
to each other really at all in this movie. Edgar
and Darley Bunkle, do you talk to each other? Oh? Right,
retort right, yes, but just a little bit. Yeah. The
bulk of the conversations in this movie are between women.

(55:01):
Oh definitely yeah, And just shout out to Darley Bunkle
and Edgar's fight in the same break. Um, Yeah, this
movie is so fun and I hope that, yeah, it'll
it'll make my form work. So let's let's get to
the nipple ratings, shall we? Yes? Zero to five nipples

(55:24):
Based on how the movie fares from an intersectional feminist lens,
I'm going to definitely knock off some points for the
really unnecessary harmful mothering of the villain, especially because again,
there's such a long history of ascribing a disability or

(55:47):
medical condition or mental illness to villains in media as
a way to other them and to further villainize them,
which in turn demonizes and stigmatizes disabilities and conditions and
mental illnesses, which is obviously very harmful and there's no
need and no excuse for that type of characterization. I

(56:09):
was disappointed to see that in this movie. Um, this
movie is way too white. Aside from those things, there
is a lot about this movie that I really like,
because so much of the movie is about celebrating female
friendship and normalizing like women being alive in their forties

(56:31):
and that being okay, which most movies do not deem
to be okay. And yeah, but they like rediscover themselves
and their friendship is just strong, even stronger at the
end of the movie. All those things like that, I'll
give it. I think I'm okay with giving four nipples

(56:53):
for four out of five. That might be way too high,
but I do love this movie. And also I fumble
the nipple rating every week, so um, I'll give one
to Barb, but one to Star. I'll give one to
Darley Bunkle and then my final nipple I'll give to
Jamie Dornan's song about seagulls in the sand. Can you

(57:15):
hear my prayer? I'll go. I guess I'll go like
four three point seven five. Ultimately the metrics meaningless. But
but but yeah, I I I'll kind of echo what
you said that they're making an ablest choice in your
villain is just I don't know, like really stood out

(57:35):
in a movie that you know, as we we said,
tries to avoid those kinds of choices. Also, it is
like a very white movie and didn't need to be. Um. Yeah,
but but but I do love this movie. It's so funny,
it's so well written, and I love that it's like
celebrating like long term female friendship and you know, doesn't

(57:57):
make them fixated on marriage or fixated on it's or
like it's just about them and like finding themselves and
whether through relationship or whether it's through um, you know,
like meeting Andy Garcia whatever that means to you. Um,
so yeah, I'll go, I guess I'll go for it,

(58:17):
and i'll um, I guess I'll just I'll just do
two to Barb two to start, keep it simple. Nice?
What about you, Kate? Well, I think can I do
point fives or you can do any increments? Yeah, okay, cool,
I'm gonna give it. I'm gonna give it three point five.

(58:37):
And if you asked me to read this on the
fund scale, I would say five out of five. But
you know, through an intersectional feminist lens, this is a
movie about white people having a very affluent experience, even
if they're kind of last, and it does I think

(58:58):
you know, rely on racist and ablest tropes to tell
certain aspects of the story. So I don't know. I
would say intersectional feminism three point five, but it is
a really fun movie. Still fair, very fair, Well, Kate,
thank you so much for joining us in this discussion.
It's been a delight. Oh, thank you so much for

(59:21):
having me. Sorry. If you can hear my little cat
in the microphone door, he is really mad that I
locked him out. Well, you'll be able to return to
him so soon. But first tell us where people can
check out your stuff, follow you on social media, all
that good stuff. So on Twitter. I am at Kate,

(59:42):
will it and will it has two hours and two teas,
And I am Kate dot will it same spelling on Instagram.
I have a new audiobook out called The Dirt Egg
Anthropology that is an exploration of masculinity from my perspective,
which is, you know, a feminist comedian, and it's kind

(01:00:03):
of like part mem where our part podcast, part like
you know, research, and it's just like it was a
really really really fun project to make. It's just available
on Audible Plus. And then I also have a podcast
called Reply Guys with Julia Claire and it's a leftist. Yeah,
it's a leftist feminist comedy podcast. So you know, we

(01:00:26):
we are talking about stuff through uh an interstectional feminist lens,
but it's more like news and politics and stuff. So
please check it out please, and you can follow us
on Twitter and Instagram. At Bechtel Cast, we've got our
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(01:00:49):
gets you access to two bonus episodes every month, plus
the whole back catalog, and it can be found at
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our merch at public dot com slash the Bechdel Cast
for all your merchandise related needs. And with that, let's

(01:01:11):
get another buried treasure. Yum yum. Was that ecstasy? Do
you think that was ecstasy? Yeah, it's gotta be yeah,
probably yeah, all right, bye bye bye