Casper

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi everyone. Quick note, h there's some slight static here
and there at the beginning of the episode, but it
goes away pretty quickly so you won't hear it for
most of the episode. I just wanted to give everyone
heads up, thanks for understanding, and enjoy the episode. On
the Doe Cast, the questions asked if movies have women

(00:20):
in um, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands
or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef invest start
changing it with the beck Del Cast. Hey, Jamie, Hey,
can I keep you know? It's cool? Closed the window.

(00:41):
I love how she was like, can you close the window?
It's called goodnight? God? What a what a creepy little ghost.
Welcome to the Bechtel Cast. My name is Jamie Loftus,
my name is Caitlin Darante, and this is our show
where we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens. You
saying the Becktel test simply as a jumping off point,

(01:03):
but Jamie, yeah, what is it? Well, the Bechdel test
is a h well, it's a test in which uh well,
and also I should tell you where it came from.
It came from? Uh? Oh god, Sorry, I just wanted
to cast for The Friendly Ghost, and so I'm like,
so this, okay, this is not going to pass. I

(01:24):
just so frothingly horny for Bill, paulm and Daddy that
I'm not fully with it at this time. It's a
media metric invented by queer cartoonist Alice in Becktel, sometimes
called the Bechdel Wallace test. Uh. There's many permutations of
this test. Here's the one that we use here at
the Bechdel Cast. We require that two characters of a

(01:45):
marginalized gender with names speak to each other about something
other than a man for more than two lines of dialogue.
And you know, some movies do it, um many don't.
And my new favorite thing is when a movie when
it's clear that they get like a note that it

(02:05):
didn't pass the Backtel tests, and then they do a
small reshoot and add in a completely nonsensical scene just
to say they passed. I want to I've been trying
to keep better track of those in movies because I'm
trying to think of which there was a movie I
saw recently that was like Newer that I'm like, this
feels like a weird Anyways, It's complicated because I feel

(02:29):
like that would be the case for more recent movies.
People weren't No, people weren't thinking about this back It
didn't come into the popular consciousness until, like I feel
like late two thousand's early two thousand tents, even though
it was invented back in the eighties and then and
then our podcast, it's the only thing we actually talked about.
Because we invented we popularized it. No, I'm kidding, but

(02:53):
um yeah, recent movies are I think doing a better
job at passing generally. Generally yes, but but sometimes you
still see some some things. I don't know. I think
I just am in a crummy mood because you're just
like the state of these days, Caitlin, I'm just not
convinced that the world is a less misogynist what than ever,

(03:18):
just less prejudice in general? Um well, we live in
a healthscape. On that note, let's talk about Casper the
Friendly Ghost I love too. Okay, so I'll start by
saying this this episode, you might be like, wait a second,
it's June. Why are you covering Casper the Friendly Ghost?
This seems more like a HALLOWEENI pick. Well, the reason

(03:41):
we're covering Casper the Friendly Ghost is because it's a
little bit of synergy. It's a little bit of cross promotion,
if you will, um, because listeners, pretty there's nothing scarier
than corporate synergy. And by corporate I mean just me. Um. So.

(04:04):
So I have a new investigative series right now coming
out called Ghost Church. Uh. It is about the American
Spiritualist movement, which was kind of this movement that existed
in the eighteen hundreds. It still exists now. It's evolved
in all these freaky ways, but it's basically founded on

(04:25):
the idea of like spirit communication, that the dead don't
really die, it doesn't really play by Casper rules. Um.
But yeah, that The overview of the show is it's
a history of this bizarre religion and its founders who
were um, women religious leaders at a time where there

(04:46):
weren't a lot of women religious leaders. But they're kind
of girl bossing around. It's it's a wild story. And
then it also is the other half of it is
my experience going to a spiritualist camp this year and
talking with uh spirit mediums who are still working today.
So if that sounds like a fun thing to you,

(05:06):
I would I would love if you listened it was
a really fun kind of like challenging piece to put together,
and I hope you like it. So we were looking
for and and I'll sort of bring up because there
are like some spiritualist ideas in Casper the movies concept
of death, but it's also the movie is so all
over the place that I feel like death is viewed

(05:30):
just like however, the movie needs you to view it
from scene to scene, like sometimes it's the biggest deal
in the world, and then other times they're like who
gives a ship? And you're like, well, which what whatether?
It doesn't matter. It's a great movie. But we were
looking for movies about spirit communication and it made me
think about spiritualism as like I've been studying it and

(05:51):
understanding it because most of the stuff, like a lot
of spiritualism is built around the idea of the seance.
But most seances, as they're presented in movies are like
bad or conjure something evil, or you need like your
Christian to come and resolve what you've unleashed via a seance,

(06:12):
which is the opposite of what spiritualism is about. Spiritualism
is like an attempt to take a step away from
the idea of like good and evil. They're very into
redemption and like redemptive justice and all these like. I mean,
there are plenty of issues with it with the religion,
but it is far more progressive than Catholicism, for example,

(06:36):
which is weirdly, what you'll mostly get in seance movies
is like a Catholic priest showing up to reverse what
the seance did. It's hard to find a feel good
movie about death, and that's where cast By the Friendly
Ghost comes in. And that's where Castfer comes in because
the only other movie that's like explicitly about spiritualism is

(06:57):
Nightmare Alley that came out last year, which again is
pretty unfavorable, which is like fine, but more importantly, no
one watched the movie and we didn't like it. So
that's why we're With all due respect to King Guierma
del Toro, it was so boring. There was no pans

(07:17):
labyrinthe I I get. Really, I'm like, you're just gonna
not give Rooney Mara anything to do. What a waste?
What a waste of everyone's time? Anyways, Uh so that's
why we're doing Casper. This is actually one of the
more like open minded views of death that you can

(07:38):
find in a movie or spirit communication at least. Sure, yes,
so yeah, listen to Ghost Church. We'll keep talking about
spirit communication. But Caitlin, what's your history with Casper? Oh
my gosh. This movie came out when I was nine
years old, so I was the exact right age he

(08:00):
see it and love it and be obsessed with it.
And I especially loved the production design, although I wasn't
like a nine year old being like, wow, look at
this set design. Amazing. The house is so still so cool. Yeah,
the house holds up. The Casper house holds up. So

(08:22):
I just like loved the spooky sets in the in
the house and then when they go into the secret
layer where the Lazarus machine is and like that all that.
I loved it, And I did you realize the Backstreet
Boys connection? No? Oh my gosh. This is the kind
of you know, like when you learn a fun fact

(08:43):
and you're like, I know, I've learned this before, but
I just like relearned it today and it's all the time. Yeah, right,
in our advanced age, sometimes things just slip. Um. The
music video for Backstreets Back all right, where all the
Backstreet Boys are dressed up in Halloween costumes and they're
dancing in the mansion. That's the Casper mansion. It's the

(09:04):
same mansion, and every time you see the wide shot,
you're like, this looks familiar, and it's the Backstreets back
mansion because that song came out in nine six, so
they just like share it a set repurposed the Casper House.
Isn't that the coolest? It's a legendary and it's just
beautiful and awesome and yeah, so anyway, I loved it

(09:26):
at the time, but I don't think I saw I
watched it past probably like seven because again, famously, Titanic
comes out and I didn't watch any other movies for
a solid decade. Yeah, totally, so, I you know, there
was a couple of year chunk in the mid to
late nineties when I was obsessed with this movie, but
I hadn't watched it since, so rewatching it for the

(09:49):
podcast was interesting. And my thesis statement will be that
Casper is a creepy little pervert. Okay now now, now,
now thoughts. I definitely think that Casper's behavior is not great,

(10:11):
but I, I don't know they're this, I I really
love this movie is still it's like it's gonna be
hard to I mean, I just like, every time I
see this movie still you're still oh my gosh. Yes,
Like I I don't remember when I first I like,
this was just like a VHS that was always at

(10:31):
our house. And I loved Casper, not just Casper, the
Casper Expanded Universe. Because there were two directed video sequels
that came out after this. It was called like Casper.
Oh my gosh. There for some reason, like just so
many awakenings for me happened via this Casper franchise. There

(10:51):
was a direct oh my god, this is going to
drive me wild, and I do need to know what
this direct movie was called. But anyways, this movie was
one of my favorites when I was a kid. I
still watch it every couple of years. I think it
was like, yeah, I like to watch it around Halloween time.
I just think it's like there's so much wrong with it.
But it is a problematic favorite for me that I

(11:14):
like that I still think it's doing a lot of
like funny cool stuff that like I don't know, like
there's things that happened in this movie that don't happen
in movies anymore. Because they shouldn't. And then there's things
that happened in this movie that don't happen in movies
anywhere that I'm like, where did that go? That was fun? Sure?
I liked that, Like it's just really chaotic. I feel

(11:37):
like they're like especially because it's like an I P
a piece of like I P. I feel like now
people are so like precious with like rebooting I P.
Where it's all very like sterile and I don't know,
like you think about how sexless the Marvel movies are
and how it's like they can be funny but they

(11:57):
actually can't be funny, and it's just like you just
feel so much like caution in some ways that is
good and undoes harmful things that were done in movies
in the past. And then it's just sometimes you're like, yeah,
why so much of this movie is just like there's
a ruckus and yeah, wild wild choices. Yeah. I used

(12:19):
to be completely in love with every character in this movie.
I loved Christina Ricci's character so much, wanted to be her.
Was also in love with her father, thought he Pulman
dad was really handsome. Still really feel that way. Kathy
Moriarty is like there's just so much, so much campiness

(12:40):
in this movie too, in a way that just like
happens in movies now, but I feel like doesn't happen
in like big kids movie. I don't know, maybe I'm
totally wrong and I'm just not watching the right movies,
but but yeah, like this movie is just so goofy
and campy and like if you showed it to a
kid right now. It's also so that they be like,

(13:01):
what is this? Like, who is Rodney Dangerfield? Oh my gosh.
The cameos are wild. Mel Gibson makes it, has a cameo,
has a cameo. It's so and all the cameos are
like really condensed to They all happened like five in
a row will happen, and then one won't happen for
forty five minutes. Yeah, I guess all I have to

(13:23):
say is I love this movie and I think it
is so goofy and chaotic, and let's talk about it.
Let's do but first let's take a quick break and
then we will come right back. And we're back, and
here is the recap. So there's a big scary house.

(13:50):
Two boys go inside at nighttime to take a picture.
I guess to show their friends that they went inside
the spooky hunted house. But then someone maybe it's Casper
the ghost I don't know, takes the picture for them
and then they run out screaming, it is Casper the ghost.
It is voice O God, calem. Don't you love the

(14:12):
part at the end where five hundred wild things happen
in a row people are dying, coming back to life, dying,
coming back to life, Surprise kiss, surprise Angel. That the
mother doesn't visit her daughter but does visit this ghost.
Like all this stuff happens where you're just like, um,
what a wild night? And then and then the ghost
start playing guitars and then the movie is all of her.

(14:36):
It's it's really funny. Sorry anyway, Okay, we cut to
a woman named Kerrigan that's Cathy Moriarty icon She inherits
a manner from her deceased father, presumably the same old
scary house that we just saw, which is called what again,

(14:57):
Whip the staff manner? Whips staff manner, which sounds like
a place in the valley where they shoot porn. Yes,
so the property is condemned. It seems nearly worthless. But
then she and her lawyer Dibbs played by Eric Idol,
find something in the paperwork that makes it seem like

(15:20):
there might be treasure hidden somewhere in the house. So
they travel to the house in Maine. They go inside
and meet Casper, who is the same friendly ghost, a
friendly ghost, and then sometimes you're like, what do we
mean when we say friendly, because sometimes he's a pretty

(15:40):
calculated ghost sometimes and sometimes he's very creepy and perverted.
As I mentioned, will be canceling Casper on the beat
to cast today. Unfortunately, we will no longer be able
to watch Casper because he's going to be canceled and
then he's going to start touring the right wing circuit.
It's going to be disaster um, and then he'll say,

(16:02):
we did that, Yeah, we did that. This our job.
I kind of as much as from Again, there's like
just so many bad choices in this movie that I'm
just like, what a confusing thing to have done. I
guess I'm not bothered by it um because this like
movie was also written by like two women, but two
women who were like voices in the animaniacs, Like, what

(16:24):
is going on like with this movie? I don't even care,
but I care again and Dibbs you get like literally
no background other than her father has just died. We
don't know where Dibbs came from nope, or like what
their relationship is. I feel like it's implied that they

(16:45):
probably fuck and maybe he wants something more and she doesn't.
That was always my head canon was that she was
you know, she's like, Dibbs is always around if I'm horny,
but obviously he's and then he's like in love with her,
but then he turns. I just love that you get.
Usually I'm like, wait, we have this like incredible iconic

(17:08):
woman playing this villain, Like let's find out more about her.
But the way that Karagan comes off and like, I
don't need it. She just wants a treasure and she
has a mansion and she's like weirdly okay with uh
dying at any moment, like before she's even sure the
machine works. I just I just love just no one

(17:32):
makes any sense. Also, the way that she's defeated is hilarious,
but we will get there. So weird. Oh God, the
ghost rules in this movie? Or why why doesn't Eric
Idol turn into a ghost? That was I was like,
did they run out of c G. I budget, um, well,
because he doesn't die, does he or justn't canonically, I
guess he just kind of disappears. Oh yeah, I always

(17:55):
thought he died. What does happen with him? He falls
into a vat no she it's like towards the end
and they're bickering over the treasure chest and then she's like,
you have a flight to catch and then she uses
her ghost magic or something to like fling him out
of the window and then we just don't see him
after that. So maybe he did die and becomes a ghost.

(18:17):
But I guess I always just assumed that he died, Yeah,
because he's flung out the point of me I wrote
down for that. Actually I did know how he I
guess didn't die, but I feel like, how would he
not die? You know? But um, it reminded me. I
wrote down reverse I Frankenstein because you know that that
scene and I Frankenstein where Aaron Eckhart breaks through a

(18:37):
window like that for no reason. I don't remember, but
I guess I'll just have to rewatch it. Look, if
you have listeners, we know that this is a little
chaotic for a main Feet episode, but we did I
Frankenstein for my birthday a couple of years ago. And um, yeah,
there's like a scene where he's going into like the
science lab. I Frankenstein, I mean Adam Adam frank Stein. Yeah.

(19:01):
For listeners who haven't seen I Frankenstein, first of all
turned this off. You gotta go watch it. But yeah,
Adam Frankenstein, played terribly by Aaron Dockart. He like burst
through a window bill ny lab is open lab. Yeah, oh,
I do remember that. But it's open because people are
like using their key cards and scanning in. But he

(19:22):
just like breaks a window. Drama. He was supposed to
be sneaking in anyways, Casper, So so Karagan and Dibbs
go to the manner. They meet Casper, who is friendly,
but they still scream and it wakes up some other
ghosts in the places extra haunted. So then Karagan gets

(19:47):
a priest to try to exercise the ghosts out of
the house. That doesn't work. They get Dan Ackroyd as
a ghostbuster to bust the ghosts. That doesn't work. Also,
you know, it's fun fun ghost church moment. Listen to
ghost Church now on I Heart Radio. Dan Ackroyd, I
believe his father was into spiritualism, and dan Ackroyd said

(20:11):
specifically when he was working on Ghostbusters, part of his
inspiration and motivation for wanting to write and being Ghostbusters
was his dad's interest in spiritualism and the idea of
life after death. And so he made uh, you know,
you can listen to our episode on it. We had
a lot of thoughts on it. But that was his

(20:32):
interest in the afterlife. Wow. And now he follows like
an alien religion or something. Yeah, he's uh he he
likes esoteric religions, you know. Yeah, the more I work
on this project, the more I'm just like, you know what,
it is like such an amazing thing if you can
find a religion that is not perpetua constantly perpetuating harm

(20:53):
on other people. And if you do find that, then like,
have a great time, enjoy yourself, you golden rule it up.
That's why I founded the cult, I mean Church of
Paddington scariest si um. I just remember the direct to

(21:14):
video sequels in case there's any other kids that were
watching these vhs. It was called Casper A Spirited Beginning,
And in the Christina ricci Ish part, there was a
boy named Chris who I was like, Wow, I'm going
to marry Chris. Wonder what happened to him? No idea.
And then the third one was I believe Hillary Duff's

(21:36):
first role Casper meets Wendy and Hillary Duff plays a
young witch who be friends Casper and then they do
you know, supernatural magical stuff together. So thank you to
the Casper franchise for giving us Hillary Duff. I think
that she got Lizzie McGuire off of that. It's called

(21:58):
American History, Caitlin, and and a Star is Born. Um,
Hilary Duff of Stars Born would be so funny. Uh,
that would be great. I would watch it, yes, Okay,
So then Acrod being a ghostbuster that doesn't work. Now

(22:18):
Kerrigan hires a crew to bulldoze the house that doesn't work.
And then then like the ghosts that they're trying to
get rid of, are these mean ghosts unlike the friendly
ghosts that is Casper. We'll find out that these mean
ghosts are Are they Casper's uncles? They are there? Is
there his abusive uncles? So they're mean? But also that

(22:41):
like doesn't make I'm sure that because Casper started as
a comic book character, so I'm assuming this is addressed
somewhere in Casper Cannon. But you're also like, maybe they're
like his adoptive uncles or something, because I don't think
that they're like they were his uncles when he was alive.
It doesn't sound like there were three weird goals hanging
out at this house. Right. Do you like when you

(23:03):
become a ghost, do you like have a ghost chosen family?
In which case, why that would be true, I don't know,
because he's just like a kid ghost, So maybe he
was looking for I don't know why I'm overthinking this.
Did the kid ghost? So he's kind of lost in
the world. You know, he doesn't have a lot of people,
and he can't remember his life at first, so they
would be his adoptive uncle's. But they really they were.

(23:27):
They're really cinderelling this little perverted young ghost. Yeah, yeah,
they're They're really mean in general and mean to Casper.
But Casper is friendly and all he wants is to
make a friend. Then Casper sees a news segment on
Dr James Harvey. He is a therapist for ghosts. Okay,

(23:51):
so this spiritualism wise, this is made up. Its spiritualism.
You have mediums who connect with spirit. And also there's
like the whole crossing over concept is interesting as it's
presented in this movie because I don't know, like it's
it's kind of like all over the place where it's like, oh,

(24:12):
you have unfinished business, and then if you have unfinished business,
you go to heaven like Christian heaven. Question mark, Like
where did Kathy Moriarty go? We don't really know, you
would think, but like it's it's hard to say how
this movie feels about redemptive justice in the afterlife. I

(24:32):
don't know if they were thinking about it when they
wrote it, but I just thought it was because spiritualism
is mostly like they don't believe that like spirits remaining
on Earth is purgatory. They're like, that's kind of par
for the course where you'll like remain like when you die,
you become a spirit guide to the people in your life,

(24:52):
but then you can cross over to this place called
the Summerland. It's kind of all over the place. It
depends on who you ask. They're really organized like the
plot of Casper. Like the plot of Casper, right, So,
Dr James Harvey is a psychiatrist who, after the death
of his wife, his wife's wife, his gorgeous wife with

(25:15):
perfect hair. He started to treat ghosts and help them
resolve their unfinished business. And then Karagan also sees this
broadcast because Casper goes into her hotel room and puts
it on her TV. Because Casper saw Dr Harvey's daughter

(25:36):
Cat and really takes a liking to her and wants
to be her friend. Again weird as hell, like the
first thing where you're like, now, Casper, that's enough, you know,
like that because I kind of forgot that that was
his motivation. I think more logically assumed that. I was like, oh,

(25:58):
he saw that like her dad could help him cross over, right,
I just felt like writing wise, that would be a
more logical thing. And then like he meets her and
they become friends and so that it just happens anyways,
Like why give him a weird pervy motivation when the
thing that's on TV also like should be like more

(26:19):
motivating for him, right, because he sees Dr Harvey being
able to like connect with and help ghosts and that
piques his interest. But it's not until he sees Cat
Christine Rucci and he's like, hubba, hubba, I need her
in my life. Oh my gosh, I'm in love. And
then he like sets up a weird, like manipulative scheme

(26:43):
to lure Cat and her father into his house so
that he can get with Cat. And that's yeah, it's
so creepy. I was kind of curious. I was like,
I wonder if that like changed at some point, because
it just didn't seem logical like this, Like I feel
like the reverse note would be given now where it's like,

(27:05):
don't force a weird love story on this like twelve
or thirteen year old girl. But I feel like in
the nineties it was maybe the opposite where they're like, no,
we gotta get a love story going here, because it's
just like, I don't know, it just doesn't scan for
me that it's like, oh, the little ghost is horny
and he's just going to ignore this really valuable whatever

(27:28):
Bill Pullman hot. That's the take my defense of every
bad choice in this movie. I'm just like, but Bill
Pullman is the way he wears those weird pants. He's
really looking like a dad in the nineties. So we
cut to him. We cut to Dr James Harvey played

(27:50):
by Bill Pullman and his daughter Cat played by Christina Ricci.
They are driving to this manner in Maine. Now Cat
doesn't leave in Ghosts and she thinks her dad is
a loser and a joke and she's resentful that he
moves her around the country all the time. And sometimes
you're and you're like, she like, really wrong. I think

(28:13):
rewatching it this time. I'm like, he's really not a
very good parent at all. So at the end when
his dead wife comes back, his wife returns and it's like,
you're actually an awesome parent. I'm like, I mean, I'm
glad he didn't die, but I wouldn't say that he's
a good parent right where is like he's not even
there with his daughter for half of the movie. He
goes to a bar and hangs out with this mean

(28:36):
Ghosts for like a long time. That was so wild
to be I never like because I've never watched this
movie with anything but like a nostalgic like lens, And
this was like embarrassingly one of those things where I'm like,
I definitely didn't This is the first time I ever
heard like jailhouse rock or like an OVI song would

(28:58):
have been like in this movie. But yeah, it's the
night of his daughter's big party and he's like, god
at a bar, like really fucked up. And I'm like,
I get that. The ghosts like kidnapped him and brought
him to a bar, but they didn't make him get
way blackout drunk and walk off a cliff. Also, they

(29:19):
were going to shoot him in the head. I was
just like, this movie is so funny, Like what are
you doing it? Actually? Really like, once I found out
the writers right for Animaniacs, I'm like, yeah, this is
a fucking like weird cartoon. Yeah. I loved Animaniacs anyway. Okay,
so her whole thing is that she doesn't like that

(29:40):
they have to move around all the time because she
just wants to stay in one place long enough to
make a friend. And we're like, oh my gosh, that's
what Casper also wants to make a friend. Wow. So
Dr Harvey and Kat arrive at the manor. Karagin is
there and she's like, you better figure is out really quickly,

(30:01):
Dr Harvey, and he's like, it's gonna take as much
time as it takes, honey. So he and Kat move
into the house, which is wild that they do that. Yeah,
I'm also like, why did she switch school systems. If
they're only supposed to be there for two weeks, we
don't know, look look away, look away, don't ask what matter?

(30:23):
They should have turned They should have turned the get
Ready machine into a roller coaster. I will never not
be mad that someone didn't turn that into a roller
coaster that was clearly made to be turned into a
roller coaster? Are you kidding me? Seriously? So mean? So
they explore it. They explore the house. It's big, it's cookie,

(30:46):
it's spooky, and Casper is so excited that Kat is there.
And then Kat sees Casper. She freaks out, she's never
seen a ghost before. And then Dr Harvey sees him too.
He also freaks out, and everyone's like, oh my god,
there are ghosts. His reaction defies logic. Why doesn't he

(31:08):
came here to see ghosts? The second his daughter's like,
I saw ghosts, you would think he would be thrilled
because she doesn't believe in ghosts, but for her father,
and instead, the second he gets the information, he's like,
I don't believe you and I'm scared. I'm like, what's
wrong with you? He's such a bad dad. He's like,
not bad, not a bad person, clearly. Okay, this was

(31:30):
my horrible Twitter joke. I texted it to you. I
don't even want to say it out loud. It's such
a bad format. Men would rather go to the with
staff manner and hang out and get and walk off
a cliff with three scary ghosts, then go to therapy.
It's true, though, it's true. He's I empathize with him.

(31:54):
He's having a hard time with the death of his wife,
but a lot of his parenting decisions are just egregiously
bad parenting decisions. He just doesn't make sense this. I
don't understand why he reacts this way because he's also
bad at his job. Because he's really bad at his job.
He goes and tries to give therapy to the three

(32:16):
mean ghosts and like, no breakthroughs happened, like he, Well
they have. They have breakthroughs via they become friends, but
like which is also inappropriate. You're not supposed to be friend,
you're psychiatry client. Look, my therapist gives me a ride
home sometimes. Don't worry, it's fine. Uh. It doesn't mean

(32:39):
that you can't make some breakthroughs as someone who's willing
to give you a ride home. But do you go
out and get blackout drunk with your therapists. No, that see,
that's that they like, he is not good at his
job unclear to me. They make it sound in the
news report like he has successfully done this before, but
clearly that's not true. And also when he meets the
like I do think he success fully becomes friends with

(33:01):
the uncle's, but that doesn't mean that he's a good therapist.
Like that correct is You're right, that's unprofessional. I've just
been excusing this man. Also, the first time that he
meets them, he's like, I'm your therapist, and then he
immediately sucks them into a vacuum, and I'm like, that's also,
that's a little problematic. I wouldn't let my therapists talking

(33:25):
about at this point. Also, well, I'll just wait till
we get to this plot point. But then another wild
thing happens. Okay, so Casper's uncles show up after the
kind of initial shock wears off of like Dr Harvey
and Cat seeing Casper. So the uncles show up, who
are stretch fat so and stinky, and then Dr Harvey

(33:47):
tries to make contact with them, but again they're mean
and they play a bunch of pranks on him. He
battles them for a while, and then he sucks them
into a vacuum cleaner. They're big time pranksters, huge goofs.
Huge were they when they were alive? The impractical jokers

(34:07):
that maybe laughed that much they were there. That's actually
the cast of It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia and they
didn't realize And maybe that's or that's the prequel to
Everybody Loves Raymond because Brad Garrett is one of those. Okay, true,
But also you're like, surely those were not their names

(34:27):
in real life. They just seemed to be that like,
and maybe I'm sure a lot of this is comic stuff,
but the three Uncles, the way they're characterized, the way
they behaved, the way they're named, the way they look,
it just seems like they there's a separate set of
rules for them, then for Casper and for all the
other ghosts, they're just kind of doing their own thing,

(34:49):
the world building, right. I like, I like that they're
the impractical jokers. They joked too hard there, Cassive Jackass Hills,
Johnny Knoxville and Steve and oh my gosh, yes, Okay,
So the next morning, Kat and Casper get to know
each other a little better. He makes her breakfast via

(35:10):
another breakfast machine, although this is weak. There's only like
a thing that cracks the egg and puts it in
a skillet. But the rest he kind of has to
do himself. But it's not awesome. It's so we were
trying to remember when we first started talking about the
breakfast Rube Goldberg machine. The ones that always come to mind. Peewee,
I feel like has the best one, but Wallace and

(35:31):
Grommet also have one, and Transper has one, Casper has one.
A lot of people pointed out one that we missed,
which was Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. I haven't seen that
it was. Wait, was it, Flubber Flubber had a breakfast machine.
It's anytime there's a cookie inventor, you've got to have
a breakfast machine. And I like that rule, right because

(35:53):
Back to the Future also has a breakfast machine. And
if you count marmal aid as breakfast food, which for
Paddington he every meal is marmalade, there's a marmalade breakfast
machine at the beginning of Paddington One. So lots of
breakfast machines in this movie. Added to the list. Yeah,

(36:15):
I would say it's a low ranking breakfast machine, but
it makes sense because Casper's dad was a cookie inventor, right, yes, Okay,
so Casper is making cat breakfast. But then the uncles
come back and they again, like you mentioned, they kind
of have Cinderella Casper. They make him do all of
their chores and cooking and cleaning and all that stuff.

(36:37):
And Dr Harvey wants to treat the uncles and help
them resolve their unfinished business and crossover into whatever plane.
He also doesn't have much of a vested interest in
helping Casper. Would correct unclear to me because you would
think that Casper would maybe priority one. He's a kid. Well,

(37:00):
if you's being treated very poorly, I mean maybe it's
the airplane rules. You've got to take care of the
worst one and then you can take care of the
kid after take right. Um, well, okay, let's examine this.
The reason the doctor Harvey is even in the movie
is because he needs to get rid of the ghosts

(37:21):
so that Carrigan can go into the house and find
the treasure. But the ghosts aren't causing that much of
a problem that why can't she just know I feel
like they would have killed her. I feel like they
with the rules of this movie, they would have killed her.
I understand why she's not comfortable going into the house,

(37:44):
but like it seems like at the beginning, and I
feel like this would have been a strong character twicet
if she was just extremely afraid of death. But that's
not true. She's like not afraid of death at all.
She can't wait to die so that she can go
through walls and find a treasure chest that has a
base ball globe. Such weird logic where she's like, wait
a second, if I died right now, I could walk

(38:07):
through this wall and then I could find the treasure.
I'm like, you could also, just like you were happy
with bulldozing the house, you could just get an axe
hack open the wall. But not my business. Nothing makes sense,
not my clown's, not my circus, okay. Meanwhile, Cat goes
to her new school where she meets Vic, this boy

(38:29):
who she thinks it's cute, the most nineties looking boy
you've ever seen in your life. Just swoop, just a
blonde swoop. And we also meet Vic's girlfriend who I
never figured out her name. Oh, Mrs Generic Bully miss
in this world, there can only be one girl in
every class, and she's she's a she's a like a rich,

(38:53):
mean girl. Casper follows Cat to school just in case
you weren't sure if he you was creepy yet or not.
Then there's this announcement about a Halloween dance that they
can't have in the school gym because of asbestos removal.
So so what I was like, they shouldn't be at

(39:15):
the school, right, They all like suddenly die, like fifteen
years after this movie comes out, the whole everyone who
went to that school, and then it becomes like a
big true crime thing. But they'll just turn into ghosts.
That's actually that's why is it? And I also, in

(39:36):
as far as this movie franchise was willing to go
in terms of just like body horror and sad things happening,
it's not off the table. A whole school dying of
asbestos poisoning actually seems like it would fit right in
Caspar four. Andyone, start working on it. Let's start working
on it. Let's get Kathy Moriarty back, love her, get

(39:59):
Christie to reach he back. She's the only survivor. She
comes back. It's a haunted school of all of her
childhood bullies. Yeah, because she was only in the school
for two weeks and then she made it out. Are
they going to live there now? Right? Do they? Just
because because Karrigan and Dibbs died, that doesn't mean that
they get the house. That just goes to somebody else

(40:21):
or gets repossessed. Doesn't entitle the ghost therapist to a mansion.
We simply don't know to quote him, possession is nine
of the law, which means he can't have that house.
He does not possess the house. Um, Okay, the Halloween
dance is coming up, and then Cat's classmates find out

(40:44):
what house she lives in this big spooky manner and
they're like, let's have the Halloween dance there, And the
teacher is like, yeah, sounds good to me. Baffling, but
I'm like, maybe that is how maybe maybe schools were
that lax in the nineties years ago, where they were

(41:04):
like he was like, yeah, great, cool, have a great time.
I was like, is he is he there? I forget
he does? He does come to chaperone, he goes well,
that's good. But it's also like, but I also love
how they like don't ask anyone's permission because it's not
her house, right, she shouldn't be throwing a party at
Carrigin's house. Yeah, they're squatting in the house. And then

(41:26):
they're like, but also, let's have a party, and he's
fine with it, and then they have one of the
more bizarre father daughter conversations ever committed to film. The
movie is just so weird it is. Okay, So back
at the house, the uncle's mentioned that they've seen Dr

(41:46):
Harvey's his wife, which again Amelia baffling. She's an angel,
why she's visiting their ghosts? The Impractical Jokers She loved
the show. Um, and Dr Harvey's whole thing is that
he desperately wants to see his wife because he's got

(42:08):
unfinished business even though he's alive. So they strike up.
Oh so this is the wild thing that the other
extremely unprofessional thing that he does as a psychiatrist, where
even though he's supposed to be giving psychic like you
know whatever, like psychiatric evaluations, giving therapy to these ghosts,
trying to you know, help them heal, he's like, well,

(42:32):
you know what, let's make this about me during our
first session, and can you go find my wife for
me wild. He says, I shouldn't be doing this, and
then he's like, but let me just like immediately like
he's already doing something. He's already sucked his clients into
a vacuum, and so he's like, at this point, I

(42:54):
might as well just do a bad job. I've already
been nothing but up. So they strike up a deal.
If Dr Harvey can keep Karagan off of the ghost
uncle's backs, they will help bring Amelia's ghost or you know,
spiritual presence to see Dr Harvey. And so he's like, okay, great,

(43:17):
but then they just end up playing another prank on him.
So again I'm just like, wow, they're so mean, so mean,
why would they do that? Speaking of mean people, the
mean girlfriend of that kid Vic, she has Vic pretend
to ask Cat to like hang out at the dance,

(43:40):
like he he would be Cat's date at the dance,
and Cat is super excited and she says yes, but
Casper wants to go to the dance with Cat, but
she's like, no, I already have a date, and also
you're a ghost. And then there's a handful of scenes
where we would just have to like unpack those later
because Casper is being really creepy and pushy, but it's

(44:04):
played off as being cute. But they're like, we love this.
Um yeah, that is just I mean that whole, like
this whole kind of sequence where like the way Casper
treats Cat and then how like weirdly negligent her dad is.
You're just like, we gotta get this kid out of here.
We gotta get her out of Maine. You know. She

(44:27):
I hope that you know, she's got like, you know,
some aunts or uncles that she could talk to because
her dad is just a mess. Oh yeah, her her
uncle's thought so stinky and stretch God, they're it's just
not It made me. It bummed me out so much.
The scene where it's like I knew what they were

(44:49):
going for, but it just like felt so bizarre where
Cat like asks her dad, She's like, hey, can I
have like or maybe she doesn't, She's like, there, we're
going to have a party here at this place we
don't live. We never see the scene where she asks
if that dance can happen at the house, right, and
which you would think wouldn't be allowed, but anyways, she

(45:10):
scene starts as if they've already agreed on it, and
she's like I want to wear something nice, like date nice,
and which is like she's like twelve or thirteen. That's
like not unreasonable, sure coming with age. I get it,
but the way he reacts is so bizarre, where he like,
immediately I was like, oh, I should give you the
sex talk and she's like, no, that's okay, and he's

(45:32):
like why are like he basically implies like why are
you having sex? I'm like, dude, she's twelve, why are
you acting like this? And then she's but then she's
sort of like ha ha no, no, I going on,
why is she not like you? What it is? His
inability to connect with his daughter is staggering, especially because

(45:55):
he's a mental health professional. There are Okay, now, this
free performance in this movie is camp and I would
say that two mm hmm. Bill Palman and Kathy Moriarty
are tied for me for campiest performances of the movie.
I think Christina Ricci actually kind of keeps it pretty grounded.

(46:15):
But sometimes, like Bill Palman is acting so cartoonishly weird
in a way that like it's kind of confusing given
what his part is. We're sometimes he's like yeah, whatever
and You're like, I don't he You're supposed to be
a grieving single father. Like, his performance makes no sense.
I get why Kathy Moriarty and Eric Idols performances that

(46:39):
makes total sense. They're basically home alone villains. Like, yeah,
that works. But yeah Bill Pullman being like especially when
he like he gets drunk and then makes out with
all three of the ghost uncles and then falls off
of a clue and Stinky says, no homo. But the
other two are kind of loving it. Movie so weird

(47:01):
the wild. Okay, So that was the creepiest scene to me,
was him asking his twelve year old if she's had
sex before. You're just like, yeah, I don't know why
that was listen to a guidance counselor um. Okay, so

(47:21):
we just saw the scene where Casper was being extra
creepy to Cat. Then Cat finds a bunch of Casper's
old like toys and things. She sets them up to
help him remember stuff about his past, which he was
having trouble remembering. And then I was like, wow, Spirited
Away parallels much because it's a young girl and a

(47:44):
spirit boy and she helps him remember his past. I
really love that scene. Where Casper is like my train,
I don't know, it's cute. She doesn't like that. I
wish that this movie would have just been like or
I guess your general would have like just been okay
with this being a friendship because that angle is really cute,

(48:06):
and like she does this very sweet friendship gesture and
then it like moves the plat forward in a very
logical way, and it's like, yeah, they don't need to kiss.
He's a fucking computer ghost clost anyways, until he's Devin
Saw we'll get there. Um my confusing. I don't get
the Devin Sawa appeal, and I never have, I never will.

(48:30):
I am just so youthful that I don't really know
why I'm supposed to care about Devin Sawa because I'm seventeen. Jamie. Yeah,
happy birthday, thank you. I can't wait to buy cigarettes
with you. Cool. Cool. Oh, okay, So she's so Cat

(48:51):
is helping Casper remember who he used to be. Then
it's the night of the party, Casper finds a dress
for Cat to wear, and then Casper's by the way,
I remember how I died, And here's what it was,
was that his mother's wedding dress or was that just
like an old dress. I really, I'm not sure they're
explicitly say it's her wedding dress. I don't think so,

(49:14):
but it looks like a wedding dress. Yeah, I don't know. Um. So,
then Kat finds a newspaper clipping about Casper's dad who
claimed to be haunted by the ghost of his dead son.
Then he invented a machine to bring his son back
to life. And Casper's like, oh, yeah, the Lazarus This

(49:37):
is cool. So he remembers where it is. It's in
the house, like in the basement or something. So he
leads Cat to this machine. There's a whole like literal
roller coaster conveyor belt thing that it takes you into
this like Phantom of the Opera style basement laboratory. It
is awesome. This whole like sequence really just makes me

(50:00):
so happy. I love it. Yeah, it's very cool. Meanwhile,
Karagan and Dibbs are snooping around the house and they
follow Cat and Casper to the lab and then Casper
goes into the Lazarus machine to be brought back to life.
Cat fires up the machine, but then Karagan sneaks in
and steals the red plot liquid that powers the machine

(50:23):
before basically say it's plot liquid too. Like she's like,
what's this. He's like, it's kind of this juice that
brings you back to life. There's only one anyways, Like
we're like, okay, I guess this is the world building.
Good job, everybody. So then Krragan's logic is she will

(50:46):
kill Dibbs. He will turn into a ghost and be
able to float through the walls to find the treasure
they're looking for, and then she can use this red
ghost liquid to bring him back to life. But as
she's trying to kill him, she accidentally kills herself by
falling off of a cliff, and then she comes back
as a ghost. You see her fall off the cliff too.

(51:08):
It's yes, exactly what I did. I did think it
was funny that they're like, Okay, we can watch Kathy
Morrie already fall off a cliff because she's the bad guy.
But Bill Paulman is a good guy who also ostensibly
falls off a cliff or like pulls off like a balcony.
He yeah, he dies from a fall, but you can't.
We can't see Bill Pullman fall right, even though I
think you know, sometimes I'm like I I like Kathy

(51:31):
Moriarty much more than Bill Pullman. Bill Pullman's walking around
thinking he's a good person. Well he's not a very
good dad, true, but he's so hot. Okay, So she
comes back as a ghost. Meanwhile, the ghost uncles are
trying to kill Dr Harvey at a karaoke night at

(51:52):
a bar while they're all black out drunk. But Dr
Harvey again is too drunk to notice that they're trying
to like murder him with gun and crowbars and stuff,
and he's like, I love you guys, You're my best friends.
And then he falls off a balcony and dies. Then
back at the Manner, Karagan as a ghost has found

(52:14):
the treasure. We don't see the scene where she figures
out where it was or anything like that, but she
comes back with a treasure chest, and Casper and Cat
steal the red Liquid back from her and then trick
her into admitting that she doesn't have any unfinished business.
So she crosses over and like ceases to be a
ghost and disappears and leaves the red plot liquid and

(52:39):
the treasure behind. Also, I skipped the part where she
kills Eric Idol, but she just sends him through a window.
I thought we were going to get an Eric Idol ghost.
I always am waiting for it to show up. It
never does. I was wondering because I was thinking of
Ghostbusters with this due to c G I ghosts right,
And one of the things we talked to about the

(53:00):
first Ghostbusters movie is that male coded ghosts can look
like anything like this a general animation problem. But women
ghosts can only look like conventionally hot women that you
can see through. I don't know that this it's hard
to say again, like this movie is kind of lawless
in that regard because it just seems like Casper and

(53:24):
the uncles are all obviously like male code of ghosts,
and they look weird. But then it's like, if you
were already a famous actor, you'll just look like that
famous actor as a ghost. In a way that felt
because originally, when Karagan came back, I'm like, oh, this
is Ghostbusters rules, but then you're like, no, Bill Pullman's
ghost looks exactly like Bill Pullman. I wonder if when

(53:46):
you become a ghost, right at first, like right after
you die, you more closely resemble what you looked like
in life. But then the longer you're a ghost, the
more cartoonist you you start to look, as I kind
of like that, as you like lose touch with your
past and yourself, you kind of just turned into this
like a blob, blobby cartoon character. Cannon, I like it,

(54:09):
thank you, Okay, they killed car again. They make her
like cross back over and the treasure chest opens and
it turns out to be a baseball and glove because
those were Casper's treasures when he was alive, and that
was the mcguffin. Basically just there's like you're just like sure, okay,

(54:33):
which is like that's whatever, cute, fine, Yeah, this at
this point, so many things you just are like Cat
is never going to recover from this night. This night
is so traumatic for her. And when she finds out
that her mom returned as an angel and didn't even
say hi, I don't know what she's going to do
that I can never That's the problem I've had since

(54:54):
I was a kid. I was like, if my mom
passed away, came back as an angel and only talked
to my dad and Casper the friendly ghost when I
was right there, I would be so pissed that did
not even occur to me until you said that. But
that fucked up not very angelic behavior if you ask me. No. Okay.

(55:19):
So meanwhile, while all this is happening, Cat's class has
shown up for the Halloween party, and that's happening upstairs.
Uh and then Dr Harvey's ghost because Cat's dad has
Bill Pullman has become a ghost after falling off of
the balcony when he was black out drunk. He shows up,

(55:39):
doesn't remember who Cat is at first, but then he's like,
oh yeah, I forgot again. You're just like, oh, there's
just Tonal. Another moment of total dissidence with the Bill
Pullman performance where she's so sad like obviously she was
found out her father died. She's an orphan, and he
was like like yeah, pull my finger, like he doesn't

(56:03):
remember her, which also doesn't track with like the ghost rules,
because Kathy Moriarty ghost remembers everything about what's been going
on when she was still alive. She hasn't like suddenly
forgotten there's anything about who she is or what she's
trying to do. But Bill Pullman, there are no rules.
Eric Idol doesn't even get to be a ghost. I

(56:25):
don't know why I truly have like they ran out
of ghost budget. Maybe they're like, we can only make six.
We're budgeted for six ghosts, and we can't make a
single ghost more. This did have a budget of fifty
five million dollars. That's a lot of dollars in especially
a lot, but this movie made so much money. I mean,
every yeah kid on the planet saw this damn movie

(56:48):
and it's and it's a good thing they did because
it's because it teaches you good lessons. Yeah, like that
you should stalk your romantic interest from a young age.
Christina re Young. I meant more to get drunk with
ghosts and being negligent. That was. There's so many bad

(57:09):
things you could take away from this movie, but I
just feel like it moves so fast and it's so confusing.
It's uh. I wonder if anyone was able to take
anything away from this movie other than what the what?
What what am I looking at? Yeah? Good? Good point?
Um Okay. So Dr Harvey's ghost is back, and then

(57:30):
Casper sacrifices his chance of being brought back to life
so that they can use the Lazarus Machine and the
Red plot liquid to bring Dr harvey back to life,
which they do kind of beautiful, such a beautiful sacrifice,
if only the stakes hadn't been established one minute previous
to this happening exactly. It happens so like it is

(57:54):
a very noble sacrifice, but it is like everything happens inside,
like that whole loop is closed inside five minutes. It's
so bizarre. So then Kat goes back upstairs to the
Halloween party. Meanwhile, Casper is in his room. He's all
sad that he can't go to the party. But then
Cat's mom slash Dr Harvey's his wife Amelia, shows up

(58:18):
as an angel and turns Casper into a human boy,
which will last until ten pm. So he goes to
the dance and he's Devin Salwa and he dances with
Kat and then they float and then he says, can
I keep you for the second time? And you're like, nope,
it's not better in person. It's it's weird whether it's

(58:39):
the cartoon or a door of or of a fleshy
as they put it right. And so they're dancing and
and then we're like, I guess. And then Amelia visits
Dr Harvey and she's like she basically says, I'm dead.
You have to stop looking for me, get over it.

(59:00):
See you when I see you. That. My mom would
always cry when she would give the advice because it
is cute. It's a little cute specific, but but when
you think about how many things he's doing wrong as
a parent, definitely not the top three recommendations I would
have made. I would have been like, trying not to
get blackout drunk the night you're supposed to be chaperoning

(59:22):
your daughter's party. Try not to squat in houses you
don't own, which unless it's absolutely necessary, which it doesn't
seem like it is in this case. Don't make your
daughter switch school systems once every for two weeks. Yeah,
because what she actually says is don't feed cat French

(59:43):
fries for breakfast. And it's like, yeah, he's doing way
worse stuff than that. I was like, he's doing that too.
Oh my god, you don't even see that. I take
it back. You you should squat in places you don't own,
because property ownership is one of the greatest scams perpetuated
of all time. But he's just doing so much wrong.
He's doing so much wrong. Yeah, exactly, so, Amelia. I mean,

(01:00:07):
she says it nicer than that, but she's just like,
you loved me so much that I don't have any
unfinished business, so you can stop looking for me. You
did a great job. But she's dating stinky. She's like,
it's not telling me. She's like, just keep doing a
great job parenting. And we're like, he's not though, And
then we cut back to Kat and Devin saw on

(01:00:28):
the dance floor. They kiss, and then the clock strikes ten,
so he turns back into Casper and all the kids
are like, oh my god, there's a ghost and they
run away, and then the uncle's who I guess are nice,
now strike up their rock band if they literally. The
plot indicates that when Bill Palman kisses them they become nice.

(01:00:51):
That is the turning point. Yeah, they're bad. They're pointing
a gun at his head ten seconds before, and then
he kisses them and they've become nice. Fine by me,
kiss your friends. That's exactly to quote one of the greats,
assuming they consent to it. All right, So that's the movie.
Let's take a break and we'll come back, and we're back.

(01:01:22):
I think we covered a lot of this in text, yes,
but I mean one of the first big I mean,
there's a lot of broad nineties tropes and it just
like late twenty century movie tropes that are present in
this movie. That I mean when that stood out that
we haven't touched on yet is the character of Fats

(01:01:44):
So who is um? I mean, that's just used clearly
as a punching down joke in a movie instantly no
body diversity. Otherwise, there's a ton of like references made
in this movie, one of which is like make fun
of Oprah's weight, which is I can't think of a
more problematic thing to do get a life, um that. So,

(01:02:09):
I mean that character in general was just like a
joke bucket for offensive jokes, all of which have aged poorly,
especially when Yeah, there's nobody diversity or really diversity at
all in this movie. I think that there's like truly
not two black actors with speaking roles. There's like a

(01:02:30):
teacher and a student, but other than that, it's like
they're on screen for like hardly any time at all. Yeah,
It's like, I know, this movie canonically happens in Maine,
but it's a fucking movie and there's non white people
who live in Maine and very nineties. And then there's
what we've been talking about this whole time, which is
the creepy stalker relationship that is like not necessary, and

(01:02:55):
if you get it out of the way, it could
have been a really nice friendship story, could have just
been a friendship again, and and one like you pointed out,
Casper doesn't need to lure them in, like that could
have happened more organically, where like Karrigan just finds out
about Dr Harvey on her own, she hires them, they
come to the house, and then Casper and cat meat

(01:03:17):
from that and then they just become friends. But instead
it's like this weird and we talk about all the
time on the show, these like coercive stockery romances. The
start by usually a man just being really creepy at
a woman and maybe she pushes back at first, but

(01:03:39):
eventually it ends up working and she'll kiss him by
the end of the movie. And for that to be
in a kids movie where the characters are twelve is
just like feels especially sinister. It's such a bummer and
it's like I I again, the only thing I can
say is there's so much k uked in this movie

(01:04:00):
that it's not something that I don't think I internalized
it in this movie specifically as a kid. But I
also do remember that like can I Keep you A
line was supposed to be like very romantic and you're
like pretty pretty scary delivered in any in any form
of Casper, it doesn't age great. And yeah, just like

(01:04:24):
I mean any like if like any movie or most
movies of this era will shoehorn in love story for
kids in a way that yeah, like if you're that
age watching the movie, like, it's just weird. It's not
necessary and even story wise, it like actively detracts from
what you would want, like Casper's whole motivation as a

(01:04:47):
characters he wants a friend, like not a girl friend
and like like a human girl to kiss. It's very
bizarre like and it's and it feels like, yeah, that's
why I'm sort of like I wonder if that was
like a a weird studio notes thing, because it feels
like every character in this movie needs a friend to

(01:05:07):
some extent, because you see that in the in the
dad character, he befriends the uncle's the uncle's befriend him,
and then they both theoretically become better for having friends.
They're also making out each other, you know, I don't
know I don't know what's going on there. I guess
the sequels, Bill Palman was not available to make out

(01:05:30):
with ghosts anymore. Um, but it was like, oh, you know,
through making friends you're able to move forward through life
and like move past your own grief is like as
close to like a moral as I could sort of
get this story. So you would think that like, yeah,
like Bill Palman doesn't fall in love with anybody. Yeah,

(01:05:53):
it's just it just feels very forced and ages poorly,
and also like didn't really work at the time either.
I don't like it, right, but I think that no
one this concept of just like a boy or man
being creepy and coercive and getting a girl that way

(01:06:14):
had already been so normalized. And then like so like
if I'm watching this as a kid and I'm like, oh, wow,
I guess that's what romance looks like. And then you're
just like indoctrinated into this mindset at an early age,
and then you watch a movie like The Notebook ten
years later or whatever, and you're like, well, yeah, movies
like Casper taught me that this is how it is,

(01:06:35):
this is how romance goes. So I just like I
think it's so sinister that I would just kind of
like want to briefly go through the beats of this
because we touched on some of them already. But then
there's that scene that we skipped over in the recap
that's like especially gross. So Casper sees Cat on that
like new segment, he instantly falls in love with her.

(01:06:56):
Doesn't really make sense. Again, you think he would be
intrigued by the idea that there's this ghost therapist who
can like help him crossover and deal with his unfinished business,
and like that would make more sense in the narrative
of like what's motivating him. But instead he's like, oh,
Christina Ricci is a person I've never met, but I

(01:07:18):
love her because I saw her on TV. So he
then manipulates Karagan into hiring Dr Harvey so that Cat
will come. So again he just like lures Cat there
for his own selfish reasons. Then there's that scene where
he keeps telling her that he wants to go to

(01:07:38):
the dance with her. She says, no, I already have
a date. He keeps being very pushy. He's like, well,
what does he have that I don't have? And he's like,
if I was alive with you if I was this,
if I was that. Yeah, she keeps saying like no, no, no,
I already told you I have a date. Then he
turns into like Arnold Schwarzenegger as the Terminator. This reminded

(01:08:01):
me of Twilight a lot, weirdly, because it's like a
guy who has been dead for a long time and
so like they like because you know how like Edward
calls like, I'm a million years old. I'm you know,
I'm an old man, and you're a teenager and you're
my girlfriend. Casper has been dead for a long time.
They both suddenly sees the object of their obsession and

(01:08:23):
with them out a window, and then that is what
motivates the female character to fall in love with them. Right, Yeah,
there's a lot, yeah, a lot of parallels in Twilight.
He was like, okay, Spider Monkey, let's run around, and
she was like t he okay. In Casper, he pulls
her out, the window drops her. Then so many balcony

(01:08:46):
falls in this movie, right, Oh my god, he saves her.
She's still screaming, and then we immediately cut to a
scene where they're sitting on a lighthouse and she's swooning.
She's saying, Oh my god, this view is beautiful, and
then he goes on to like tell her about, oh,
I can't remember my past and I don't know who

(01:09:06):
I was, so like, I feel like he's just like
using all this emotional manipulation and then also just like
straight up creepy coercive stuff too. I agree that he's
using creepy coercive stalk or behavior when it gets to
like the stuff if he doesn't remember his past. I
didn't even I didn't clock that as emotional manipulation. I

(01:09:27):
just kind of clocked that as like not very good.
I wouldn't if he hadn't already done all that other stuff.
But then I feel like that could be and you
could interpret that is like, well could be interpreted that way,
like you know, I I have her in my clutches
and this kind of seals the deal to get her
to like me and to care about me, which is

(01:09:47):
a bummer because again it's like if it had just
been presented as a friendship and they meet more by chance,
you could have that exact same scene and it could
play very very differently. It could work just fine, exactly, Yeah,
because it's she's what she's like saying, actually, like is
you know, thoughtful and empathetic and they're like sharing experiences
about like she has lost a parent and like she's

(01:10:10):
talking a little bit about that, and you know that's
a big part of her character and it's like, just
let them connect on that level because yeah, like you're
talking about because all that stuff happens before, it adds
this like layer of baggage and like weird coercive e
stuff that doesn't need to be there, and you yeah,
I feel like that scene could play out. You know,

(01:10:31):
they could just be up on the lighthouse together without
you know, I don't know, like because he's already manipulated
several people and been super creepy. Yeah. I just I
was like, I feel like he's just I don't know,
like he I see what you're saying. Yeah. Um. So
they have that conversation and then they go back to

(01:10:52):
the house. He's like, I don't know, talking her into
bed or something, but she's like kind of drifting off
to sleep and he whispers in her ear, can I
keep you? She is like as pretty asleep by this point,
and then he kisses her on the cheek when she
is not conscious. She thinks it's like a draft coming in.

(01:11:14):
She's like close the window, but he's like kissing her
and being like can I keep you? That stuff is yucky? Gross?
And then at the end when he's a human Devin
sawwa and you're like why are we doing this? And
he says can I keep you? Again? And and then
she's like wait, who is this right? Because she also

(01:11:37):
doesn't even know that's Casper at first Devin saw Whata
just comes up to her and takes her hand and
like leads her onto the dance floor, and she's like huh.
And then when he says like can I keep you?
Is that the moment when she's like wait are you Casper?
There's something that like she doesn't know. I mean that
I didn't view as like co worker up. I just
thought that was weird because it's like she doesn't know

(01:11:57):
anyone and at this school really, so it's like if
she saw a boy she wanted to dance with, like
probably she wouldn't have known him anyways. And it's like
not like she's being like dragged out, like she's going
like she's going, but it's just like another weird writing Boemt.
We're like, oh, yeah, she has no idea who this is.
This is she as far as she knows, this is

(01:12:18):
just like a boy from her school. I feel like
you needed me to this party at her house that
is not her house. I feel else's happen, right. I
feel like you needed something similar to that moment in
Beauty and the Beast where Beasts turns into a human
and Belle is looking at him skeptically and then she
looks deep into his eyes. She's like, you have the

(01:12:40):
same eyes as beast, and then she's like it is
you and he's like t he. I feel like we
needed a moment like that right away, right, because otherwise
you're like, what is? What is? It's hard to put
yourself in Cat's head for this scene because it's like,
why is she looking all googly at if she's like
if she doesn't, right, I like, look, it's not. I

(01:13:03):
love that this movie was written by women too. Credited
writers Sherry Stoner and Diana Oliver, both of whom are
also actors and have been in really famous cartoons. Diana
Oliver is in The Brave Little Toaster and wrote on
Animaniacs and Tiny Tuoned Adventures. Uh. Harry Stoner was the

(01:13:27):
voice of Slappy on Animaniacs. And they also wrote a
movie that I definitely saw in theaters and couldn't tell
you a single thing that happens in it. My favorite Martian,
remember that I know of it. They also wrote that
Sherry Stoner, this is bizarre, speaking of Beauty and the
beast Um, she was an animation reference model for Ariel

(01:13:49):
and Bell. They're just kind of iconic figures. And they
wrote Casper like, I love it, but it's just a
lot of things that happened in this movie that make
no sense truly. Yeah, I mean, it is unusual for
women to write like major motion pictures in the nineties, right,

(01:14:12):
I know. I mean, I think it's a really good thing,
and I fully I want to believe that a lot
of the weird romantic stuff is being pushed from a
studio standpoints studio. Also, I read that J. J. Abrams
did an uncredited rewrite of the script, so maybe some
of the weirdness came from his rewrite. We don't know,

(01:14:35):
hard to track. Let's blame him, why not, Let's blame J. J.
Abrams what We could blame him for a lot of things, true.
We Yeah, So, I mean the thing that sucks about
that is I really like Kat as a character. Like
I think that if that relationship with her and Casper
had been stripped down to a friendship, it would have

(01:14:56):
done justice to her character so much her because it's
like she's she's a Christina Ricci character, and at this point,
Christina Ricci has already been Wednesday Adams. She's sort of
like she's going to be in the ghost movies for
a while, spooky big how you know, Hunted Mansion movies. Yeah, yeah,
And it's like she she's I don't know, like she

(01:15:19):
maybe I just have such nostalgia for this character, but
like she is like grieving her mother, She's struggling to
fit in at school. She like has a tough relationship
with her father because she like understandably resents him for
like dragging her around the country because he won't go
to therapy. Like all of this, Like there's a lot

(01:15:41):
going on, and like she still managed to be like
very motivated. She's empathetic to the people around her, but
like not at the sacrifice of her own story. Like
I do think that there's a lot of cool things
about that character that like if you had taken out
the weird predatory relationship stuff that's being pushed on a

(01:16:02):
twelve year old. You could have made some space for
like even more coming of age stuff. Um, that would
have been cool because I like, I like the coming
of age stuff that's there, but it's kind of stripped
down to like she makes a friend, but also he's
kind of her boyfriend, and like it's like, though she
should make a friend. I would have loved to see
her make a friend at school. I would have loved

(01:16:23):
to see her have a conversation with her angel mom.
Like it just felt like there are a lot of
missed opportunities. Um, she's pretty active in the like I mean,
the whole climax of the movie. Again, I'm just like
I don't even know if I can get to gender
on it because it's just such a weird mess. Um.
But like she's pretty active in that climactic seed. But

(01:16:46):
like also everyone's kind of doing their own thing in
that scene. Like, I just I think Cat is an
awesome character, and I wish that the main thrust of
the story wasn't her anding up was sort of a
ghost boyfriend, although it seems like the second he turns
back into a ghost that is off the table, so
you're just like, why did we even do it then? Right,

(01:17:09):
like she only wants to kiss him when he's Devin Sawa.
And also that was you know, a surprise kiss and
blah blah blah, like all this ship that we've been
talking about for years. But it's just it sucks that
the takeaways from her character is she forgives her father's
bad parenting and she has like a ghost boyfriend, when
the basis of the character there's like potential for so

(01:17:32):
much more. I like that. I wish that she had
had she'd been given more cool stuff to do. Yes,
I think there could have been a more meaningful subplot
and resolution between her and her father. I think there
could have been a more meaningful subplot about how she's
experiencing the loss of her mother and you know, like

(01:17:54):
how she's dealing with that grief. And again, if she
had had some closure there, like if her mom angel
came and talked to her, then it could have also
passed the snubbed by her mom. So weird, but so
much real estate, and the movie is taken up by

(01:18:15):
this creepy predatory romance between twelve year olds. It's so bizarre.
I did find there to be traces of the precocious
twelve year old girl trope with Cat. It's not the
worst example I've ever seen, but I felt like you

(01:18:35):
could make the argument that there are traces, but in
a way that would you argue in a way that's
like harmful because it's not even like she's a bookish kid,
like I think she's just like lonely and right and
I think has some good lines. I think she is
well rounded enough and just like a multidimensional enough character

(01:18:57):
that other aspects of her character that she doesn't necessarily
fall into that trompe super squarely. But I don't know,
Maybe it was just the sad alone. Maybe it was
just the scene where they're like turning on the power
in the house when they first get there, and she's like, yeah,
we need all these twenty volt bulbs or like I don't.

(01:19:18):
She says something she knows all about electricity, and I'm
why do you hate Casper? There? There, It's like definitely, no,
it's definitely a Quippie script. Like I just through something.
It's definitely like a quip a Quippi script. But it's
I think it's like I think it's more just like
that's how everyone sounds in this movie, and she and
Casper are the only kids that you really get because

(01:19:40):
it's like the bullies are like have these weird quippy
lines too, and they're like making references that are kind
of out of pocket given they're like, you know, she's
like she you know, she knows who Stephen King is.
But that's just because the script wants to reference the
fact that they're in Maine, Like, I don't know, she
definitely is like precocious, but don't I mean, yeah, it's

(01:20:04):
not even that's not even always a universally bad trope.
I think it's just like a trope that exists. Sometimes
it sucks and is like problematic, but I feel like
it only for me. It's mainly an issue if it
implies that a kid is like worldly in a way
that is permissive for adults to treat them not like

(01:20:25):
a kid. But I don't think that that's really what's
happening here. I think she just is like I agree
with you, Um, I didn't have much else except for
it also feels a bit tropy to me, the like
a man's motivation is his dead wife. I'm like, for sure, Well, yeah,

(01:20:46):
I had a little bit about the mom too. I
think that like that whole thing is like a little
like do we know what the mom did? No, we
don't know if she had a job. Her daughter's memories
are of her cooking breakfast and smelling good and being
It's not to say like they're like if she didn't
have a job or like any of that that would

(01:21:07):
make her less of a mother. It just is like
in terms of trope, like she remembers her mom doing
only very like feminine domestic things. Um, we don't really
get any background on the mom in a way that
actually kind of does feel agreed, just like it doesn't
with Karagan, because Karagan is like straight up a cartoon

(01:21:28):
character as his DIBs. But like the mom, we're supposed
to really be feeling this loss, and the things that
you know about her are very vague. And I feel
like that the whole concept of like the angelic mother character,
You're like, all right, I get like it's just kind
of in a way that a lot of stuff in
this movie is kind of like stocky and lazy. Yeah,

(01:21:51):
I don't know, like movies and culture in general, Like
I do think that there is like this obviously like
nothing but respect for mother's braver than the troops. It's
it's hard to be like, oh, but I just feel
like there's a there's this creepy halo given to the
concept of motherhood in movies that I feel like it

(01:22:13):
is also like on the back end of that used
to demonized childless women or like the best a woman
can be is if she is a mother. Um. And
you can kind of see that in And I don't
know how intentional this was, if at all, but like
you know, like the dead mom is an angel and

(01:22:34):
Karagan is like a childless woman in her thirties and
she's hell and she's evil and she's a horny murderer
and blah blah blah when you know. So the mom
stuff I just thought was it's again it sucks because
I like the actor who plays the mom. I think
she's like great, but yeah, if you're going to do

(01:22:55):
all that, at least have the mom talk to her
daughter like what you do wing um. Yeah, So the
mom stuff kind of pined a little weird for me
because she just becomes yeah, she's like a fairy godmother too, Casper,
which is like, okay, but it's just it's just bizarre. Um. Yeah,
they felt like there was some ginded stereotypes going on

(01:23:18):
with the mom. I feel like if we had maybe
gotten some flashbacks and maybe this would have been corny.
But also this is a very corny, campy movie. But
like some flashbacks between Cat and her mom. You know,
Bill Pullman can be there too. But if it's like
Cat reflecting on memories of her mother, and then that

(01:23:40):
way we would get to learn about the mom a
bit more and we could see two female characters interacting
more in a way that we barely. All you really
get is Kathy Moriarty grabbing Christina for face, which did
pass the back to all to do unfortunalitly. Um, if

(01:24:03):
you're Kathy Moriorty grabbing a teenager's face, it pass passes.
And it does pass. What was that line that Eric
Idle says that you that passes. Oh, he says something like,
I'm gonna live in a house with purple curtains and
green carpets, and I'm going to have a little dog
named Karagan. A bitch just like you passes the Bectel test.

(01:24:28):
And also Kathy Moriarty says the Bitch is Back. They
get to say bitch twice in this movie. That's something
I miss about children's movies is getting to say bitch
two times. Kids love that ship. I love it when
people say bitch, especially when it's Kathy Moriarty talking about herself,
Like that's a very empowering use of the word. When
Kathy Moriarty calls herself a bitch, that passes the Bechtel test.

(01:24:52):
That definitely does for sure. So yeah, I just I
think the movie like started to set up some interesting
themes and storylines, and then they just got forgotten about
in the interest of showing this predatory romance um where
Casper is a perverted creep. I also, yeah, and it's

(01:25:12):
like and and we've talked about this before, there's not
a ton of big movies that are about like single dads.
I think it's always an interesting opportunity to see single dads,
especially single dad's with daughters where it's like, I get that,
you know that that's set up in the movie of
like there's some dissonance he doesn't he still is like
adjusting to the idea of being a single parent. There's

(01:25:35):
plenty of like kids watching that movie I'm sure that
are like could connect with that experience. But then he
like is kind of a shitty parent and she just
accepts it eventually, and so that felt like a missed
opportunity as well. But again, it's like it's Casper. Um.
But but every kid in the planet sees a movie

(01:25:57):
like this, and I and I do agree that it's like,
there are only things that would stick with you from
this movie that you've probably already seen. Unfortunately, in other movies,
by the time you see Casper, you've probably seen a
weird child predatory relationship already, You've already seen bad parenting
from Father's Excused as kind of funny. Um, mom's Mommy

(01:26:19):
is angel Like. These are all things that come up
in movies pretty frequently. Um, dead moms in general, we
love a dead mom in children's media and nineties movies
for kids, get her out of there, but then bring
her back and have her give a plot. Disney doesn't
do that to the dead moms. I will say the

(01:26:40):
funniest part of rewatching this movie was because I very
clearly remember being touched when when the dad dies and
then he comes back to life. I just forgot that
that all happened inside of three minutes what I don't know. Anyways,
this movie does technically pass the back to test, which is, um,
we celebrate that, good for them, good for them. Let's

(01:27:03):
let's get into our nipple scale. Yes, zero to five
nipples based on how the movie does when we look
at it through an intersectional feminist lens, and I would
say this movie for me only gets like maybe a
nipple and a half because as much as I do
like Christina Ricci as Cat and I do think she's

(01:27:28):
given a fair amount to do in this story, it
would have all worked so much better for me if
it wasn't all overshadowed by her getting stalked and coerced
by a perverted ghost boy. So I hate that if

(01:27:51):
it had just been a friendship between them that happened
more organically, and if there had been kind of more
focus on some other either like internal or external struggle
she was dealing with, like her struggle to make friends
because her dad moves her around too much, and you

(01:28:14):
know she she's dealing with grief from losing her mom,
And how does that manifest in her choices and behavior,
and how can that, you know, affect the story just
things like that that could have been more meaningful and
interesting to watch, but instead it's like, yeah, let's watch

(01:28:34):
like just a series of fat jokes because of a
character named Fats. So you're fucking kidding me. You have
to see this little ghost say can I keep you?
Before surprise kissing and unconscious girl. You have to see

(01:28:54):
Bill Pullman watch your mouth and fall off balcony when
he's supposed to be looking after Oh gosh, there's just
so many weird choices. The movie makes one and a
half nipples. I'll give one to Kathy Moriarty's performance as Karagan,

(01:29:20):
and I'll give my half nipple to Christina Ricci. And
that's all, folks, I'm going to give it to I
am very I like this movie. I totally agree that
you're saying, building a movie around a predatory relationship between
twelve year old is always weird. I it's frustrating because

(01:29:42):
it's so easily could have and should have just been
a friendship and the whole movie would have benefited from it,
and then it would be a movie I would be
much more comfortable showing to kids now, like if it
had just been a friendship. And I mean the body
shaming jokes, the extreme whiteness of the movie, the everything
about it is so entrenched in not in nineties kids

(01:30:05):
movie tropes, and and but I am always gonna love
this movie. I think it's just high camp. I think
it's like pretty hilarious. And uh, I just love when
a movie is um a live action cartoon. I feel
like you don't really get many of those now. They're

(01:30:26):
really fun. I just, yeah, I adore this movie, but
it is not a progressive movie. I would say I
love the cat character. I feel like there's a lot
of missed opportunities with her character. Um, I feel like
there was a way to include the mom in the
story that was less dead woman trophy and then Karagan

(01:30:48):
is I would say a really underrated movie. Villain Kathy
Moriarty really brings the heat. I also read that Carrie
Fisher and Kathleen Turner were in the running for that part.
Also would have both been great. There's like just absolutely fabulous.
I mean, yeah, I I love this movie so much,

(01:31:08):
but I cannot give it more than two nipples in
good faith. So I will give it two nipples, and
I will give one to the wake Up Machine, which
should have been a roller coaster, and I now it's
never going to be a roller coaster because kids don't
watch this damn movie anymore. It's not even streaming anywhere.
And I will give my other nipple to Cathy Moriarty

(01:31:31):
because I'm no fool. And you should listen to Ghost
Church if you want to hear about an esoteric religion
that revolves around the idea that the spirits walk among us. Still, um,
you can listen to it wherever you get your podcast
will link it in the description of this episode. And uh,
and that's our episode about Casper. The friendly goes Oh,

(01:31:55):
I love The ending shot of the movie is just
Casper eating eating you. Yeah, he's just barreling towards you
and then you see his mouth and then he's gobbled
you up. Not love it, no notes incredible. Also, this
was directed by the director of a Series of Unfortunate Events,

(01:32:15):
which means that he loves creepy old manners and he
loves weird Cinderella stories with orphans. True, Brad Silverling, what's
going on? Shout out, Brad silver Ling. Type he's being
type cast. He's like, like, I love kids in a
mansion anyways. Um, so Yes. Check out ghost Church. Yes.

(01:32:36):
Check out us on Twitter and Instagram at bectel Cast.
Check out our Matreon at patreon dot com slash becktel Cast,
where you get to bonus episodes every month, plus the
entire back catalog of over one bonuses, such as episodes
like I Frankenstein. Oh yeah, and that's it. That's all

(01:33:01):
that's there. Now. We recently did a top gun and
face off with that's where we cover a lot of
popular requests and a kind of like loose. This is
actually kind of we This is like Matreon episode. Yeah,
we've been goofing around on the main feed lately. It's
been fun. I feel like we've always been goofing over here.
Well yeah we've I guess famously, we've been goofing kind

(01:33:22):
of the whole time. We're sort of like impractical jokers
a little bit. I will say. I think it's so
Their headboards are so funny, and I would love a
headboard that just as stinky. Absolutely weird. This this movie is.
I know, I know, I know, but it's one of

(01:33:43):
my favorite movies ever. Still, I realized as I was
watching this, well you can get our we got merch
as well. T public dot Com, slash v, Bechdel Cast
and uh Yeah, listen to Ghost Church, listen to the
Bachtel cast of Brush Your Teeth, and a major access
by bye bye,

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

The Bechdel Cast News

Follow Us On

Hosts And Creators

Caitlin Durante

Jamie Loftus

Show Links

Popular Podcasts

40s and Free Agents: NFL Draft Season

Dateline NBC

Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Casper