Cats with Katie Goldin

Jellicle cats Jamie and Caitlin invite special cat Katie Goldin to discuss the representation of cats in the movie Cats (2019). Plus some cat takes from friend of the 'cast Danielle Radford!

(This episode contains spoilers)

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the be Dol cast. The questions asked if movies
have women in um, are all their discussions just boyfriends
and husbands or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef
in best start changing it with the beck Del cast
and they all said, oh, I was about so covers

(00:24):
up cast? Do do do? No? Judi dench Um. Well
here we are welcome to the Bechtel cast or is
it the beck Dol Cats? So we're talking about cats

(00:51):
twenty nineteen, the famously bad Tom Hooper joint, Tom Hooper,
don't listen to her. We liked it. This actually works
out great, Caitlin, because you've been waiting for a movie
like this to come along for so long. The cat facts,
the cat the cat fact with Caitlin, what the cat facs?

(01:15):
I don't know what you mean. I've never heard this before.
You're talking about But if I said something about the
same fact every time, that's the joke. She does the
same fact every time. I think hundreds of times at
this right, I would remember that. Okay, guys, I'm joking,
Oh my god, wow, But yes, you're right, um. The

(01:41):
most important cat fact in the world is that cats
have eight nipples and that's cat facts with Caitlin. I
love to hear it. It's music to my ears. Um,
my name is Jamie Longs, my name's Cats Cat Cat
Cat durand I'm Jamie, Jamie, Jamie Jim. Oh. We don't

(02:09):
have to be thrilled about that, but it's true. Um,
this is the Veteal Cast. This is our movie podcast
about the portrayal of women in film. Yes, for this episode,
it will be about the portrayal of female coded cats.
The cats gender each other. I mean we just have
to kind of take the cat's words for it. We

(02:31):
don't see any junk to Jason Derulo's dismay. Klen I
went to a holiday party at Madame Tussod's, which, first
of all, I don't even think that it's a brag.
I think that that's just kind of unfortunate. Um. But
and Jason Drulo has a prominently displayed wax figure and

(02:51):
he they do not take his bulge out at the
wax Museum. It's there. It's to the left, and and
his wax figure is mid jump. I don't know what
he's jumping towards. I don't know what it's a reference to.
He's jumping towards his role in Cats. Jason Derulo is
famously obsessed with his own penis and it really it

(03:11):
really comes alive and the Madam two sides, so that
this is that that that's a paid advertisements in Hollywood.
You gotta check it out. Jason Drulis Dick is huge there, right,
and that did not pass the Bechdel tests? But why
what does the Bedel test? Well, gee whiz, I'm glad
you asked um. It is a media metric created by

(03:31):
cartoonist Alison Bechdel, sometimes called the Bechdel Wallace test, in
which two female identifying characters or cat ticktors. Now you're right,
you're right. They must have jelical names, and they must
me out to each other about and it can't be

(03:54):
about rum Tum Tugger or Gus the theater cat or
Mr Mustaphili even if you want to talk, and and
it can't even be about Skimble Shanks. And most movies
can't get through a conversation without bringing up Skimble Shanks.
The real life. It's a huge problem facing Hollywood today.
I don't know if it's internalized misogyny, but skimble Shanks

(04:16):
is my top cat. I know, I know the optics
are bad, but Skimble the rail way cat, I can't
resist him. I've seen the movie now in theaters three times,
same together, once together at once. The second time I
saw it was with a big group of mostly comedians, um.

(04:39):
And one of them was friend of the cast, Daniel
Radford of the Cats. Friend, I'm so sorry, friend of
the Cats. She was our guest on the Fifth Element episode. UM,
and I just wanted her to share her her takes
on the film Cats. So I we recorded a little,
just a little sound clips from her side, and uh,

(05:02):
let's let's play that now. I'm here with Daniel Radford.
She was our guest on the Fifth Element episode and
we just saw Cats together, and uh, here are Danielle's takes.
First of all, this is now made it into my
top five bad movies. I love it so much. I

(05:23):
did cry. I laughed at all the wrong parts. Hey,
all of these actors reserved better. Beat that aggressive gray
cat who thinks he's in charge. Needs to stop coming
at me so much. Um, Judy Dench looks like it
looks like the cowardly lion, and I cannot unsee it. Um.
Francesco the Ballet was great, But why did they sweeten
her audio and they didn't sweeten Tata's audio? Um, I

(05:46):
have a conspiracy theory. I will not announce it. Um.
Oh my god, what else? Um? Cats is literally I'm
going to watch this um every Christmas. This is going
to be my Christmas story. Oh. Also, I didn't believe
it was going to be as horny as it was.
It was so so so horny. Like literally, it's a
shame that they had to like photoshop at all the

(06:08):
dicks because because Victoria was looking forward dick um like
Mr Mrs dig especially. Yeah, they were really I I did.
I cried. I cried a whole bunch and I laughed
a whole bunch because it's really ridiculous. This is one
of those movies where in every bad movie, there is

(06:29):
one actor who knows what movie they're in exactly. It
just Elma knows exactly what movie he's in. He knows exactly.
There's no point where he just goes and then disappears.
He goes, he knows what movies he's in, and he's
having the greatest of times, and God bless him and

(06:50):
God bless America. Also, Um, you didn't have to do
that accent, babe, Oh yeah, that song is actually not
really done in an accent. And then like you don't
have to do that. And also there's just like way
too many members of like this, like dames and surs
in this. Just everything, this entire cast deserved better, and

(07:12):
they all acted. Jennifer Hudson acted her ass off in this,
and like she clearly goes to the Viola Davis school
of acting. Words just sucking snut running down your face
and I get it, um, But also like no one
told you, who told you to act this hard? And
the disappearing and reappearing of shoes on people and the disappearing,

(07:34):
reappearing hands. I think we saw the cut before they
sweetened it, um and fixed it, and I'm so glad
we did. And I think those are my takes. I
can really talk about cats for an hour, and I
probably will when Screen Junkies comes back from break. Thank you,
Danielle um okay, thanks thanks Thanelle. A friend of the
cast and a friend of the cats. Indeed indeed and

(07:56):
icon um well of let's get into it our guest today.
She is an animal expert. She is pro bird rights
on Twitter. She's host of Creature Feature Podcast. It's Katie Golden. Hey,
there are you guys coming into Hard? I've got a

(08:16):
I got a cold. I watched damn It. Yeah, coming
to see see what I mean. I'm coming into twenty
twenty so hard. I just jumped back a whole year.
Yeah so UM. For those of you who don't know me,
my voice doesn't normally sound so beautifully low and and

(08:37):
gritty like an action hero. I'm a little I like it, husky,
it's it's it's really nice. I actually like it better
than my normal voice because now I can like say
things like darling that just is not working for you. Um.
And I spent my time being sick by watching cats,
um and sinking a about them and the detail on

(09:01):
their hairy bodies. Before we really jump into it, gals,
which cat do you most identify this? You know, Jamie,
that's a really good question. I think it's something that
we all have to confront. It's the same. It's it's
the Sex and the City quiz of our Which cat
from cats are you? I feel like I'm exposition cat. Oh,

(09:24):
you're the the one that no one knows because they're like,
you're like, what is his name? He talks so much,
talks a lot, but he doesn't even like every cat
gets an introduction song except for him. I can see
it's that guy. Yeah, yeah, I'm the cat that cannot
be ignored. That's I'm a Skimble shanks. I love Skimble.
He's my favorite part. I've been listening to the sound drag.

(09:45):
I like that he has these tight, tight, impossibly tight
overalls because they had they had a chance to not
show us one of the male cat's packages, and they're like,
you know what, No, We're going to you the brave
choice and give him skin tight overalls, which is weird
because they deny drul Oh. But then they give it

(10:08):
to Skimble. We can see a little bit, we can
and also like his his butt is just like two
eggs in a handkerchief. Eggs and a handkerchief that will
hunt me until I die. You're welcome. You can kind
of tell this movie is made up of famous people
and professional ballerinas and the divide whenever you don't know

(10:32):
who it is, it's a famous ballet dancer basically, or
dancer in general, because Skimball is a dancer. He's a
tap boy, he's a he's a he's a tapper um.
And then you've got Francesca Hayward who's like one of
the main dancers, a principal dancer in the Royal Ballet
and London. And then yeah, whenever you don't know who

(10:53):
it is, it's just it's a it's a European dancer.
That's just it's just the rule. Except for Mr must Files.
He's just some guy that I think is hot. And
he spent half of the movie near tears, which I
thought it was an honorable acting job, but also kind
of like it really also represented the audience. I felt

(11:15):
like he was sort of the you know, the what
is it like when you're it's like the self insert character?
Oh just see like the avatar that you're paying and
I know where it's that's supposed to be Victoria the
cat because she has no personality, but I'm most I
guess that's the cat I most identified with is because
he was near tears the whole time. Mr m And
he has a good I want to make my cat

(11:37):
a jacket like that. That's good. He's got a good jacket.
I would actually kind of like that jacket for myself.
I do it. He's got he's got one of my
favorite songs. I think that's my favorite. Which one is?
Is that my career is? I got rum Tom Tugger
is also up there in terms of I mean, he's

(11:58):
a curious cat. I would that in general, to get
into the gender discussion right off the bat, the songs
are generally better for the male cats or that that's subjective.
And of course Jennifer Hudson gets memory the classic. True,
but I think that that's like the only for me.
We don't hardly get to know any female cats at all.

(12:21):
Most there's Jenny, any dots, there's Jenny, and there's Victoria,
who like I think, Okay, well, I guess if we're
breaking it down, the male cats that we get to
know are bust for Jones, Rumtum Tugger, he's curious male cats.
By here, here's my my animal knowledge chiming in here.
Male cats are called Tom's Tom's okay, and neutered female

(12:44):
cats are called queens. I love it. Sorry, not not unter. Sorry,
unneutered is males unspaced? Okay? So would you say you
have some cat facts, then those are well, those that's
it though, those are these are the only cat pacts
you get if you have any questions about the accuracy

(13:04):
of the cats in the movie. Um, but should cats
be wearing suits and have human penis bulges? Well, just
in your professional opinion, human penis bulges, Well no, I
mean the problem with the penis bulges is they're not
barbed enough, like they're not spiking enough. That's the problem
is that if you're gonna so the cats penis is

(13:26):
sheathed normally. So that's why you don't see cats bounding
around with big flopping wieners hanging out their sheet. Um,
and that means they they're sort of retractable thing. And
but once when the cat penis is unsheathed, when they
have drawn their penis as for a duel, Um drawn
my penis like one of your French girls drama penis

(13:47):
like one of your fresh gills, and um, it is
covered in little barbs and uh, they're very weird looking.
They're kind of cool. Um. And the cat mating thing
is is a whole trip. I don't know how detail
do you want. I mean, we'll get to it. Yeah,
we can get into that later. But to get to
just for the breakdown of how many male songs versus female.

(14:10):
James Cordon gets a song, Jason Derulo gets a song
you just held, but does not get his own song.
Mcavity doesn't get his own song. I would say that
that's more Taylor Swift song. Ian mcellan gets his own song.
That's three. Mr Mustafs gets his own song. Monku Strap
who is position cat, and then Uh Skimble shanks there

(14:31):
up to six. We've got Mungo Jerry shares a song
with Rumpled t so, uh, they're the most boring cats famously.
And there's Growl Tiger who gets a short and bad song.
Is he the barge cat? Yeah, he's he's the boat cat.
So we've got we've got eight male cats songs. And
then for the female cats, we've got Judy Dench has
a song. Jennifer Hudson of course has a song that

(14:52):
she sings arguably five hundred times. Taylor Swift has a
song for Tusca Hayward who's Victoria, has a song, and
and you have Rumble Teaser gets together. So it's like
it's sumal Teazer gets point half of us half. Yeah,
so it's seven and a half male, four and a
half female. Okay, Yeah, So not it's not. Oh oh,

(15:13):
did I say Rebel Wilson? I did say rebels. Oh,
I don't know if you do. Maybe it's five sorry,
Judy Dench, Jennifer Hudson, Taylor Swift, Rebel Wilson, Frances so
five and a half versus seven and a half. It's
basically like a real world um income disparity, right right right. Anyway,
here's the thing is, they played around with gender a
little bit by making old old dute Judy Dench isn't

(15:36):
old Dute typically a male in the Broadway productions. Yes, um,
I did some WICKI PDA research and read that the
role of Old Deuteronomy was first played I believe by
Brian Blessed or blessed or blessed uh some pronunciation um,

(16:02):
And that was in the West End in the early eighties.
Then the character was played by Ken Page on Broadway
in two, and then also played by an actor named
Quentin Earl Darrington when the Broadway production was revived in

(16:22):
So it seems like historically Deuteronomy has been played by
mostly male actors, and we can we can touch more
on that a little later on. We need to take
a break, We need to take a little cat nap,
but then we'll be right back. Now it's time for

(16:48):
the recap or is it the recat? It's three cats,
the recats, the recats of the cats of the Cats movie.
Here to say this property has a story is being generous,
but I will do my best. I think it's like
more of a like, it's just it's more of a

(17:09):
listical then it is a kind of ahead of its
time in that regard. True BuzzFeed Home Cats is allistical.
Ten Okay, what would you call if cats were realistical?
What would you call it? Oh? My gosh, these ten cats,
ten essential cats for ten cats that will make you scream, Yes,

(17:32):
for a disease. Eight will scare you, alright because you
got to have that like click baby. Yeah. Number eight
will shock you and that's you just elbow when he
gets naked. Cat. Um. I just retweeted a tweet from
at the Patrick Walsh that I thought was really funny.
Uh he said that, Um, not sure why cats didn't work.
It follows a classic three X structure. Act one, cats

(17:54):
introduce themselves. Act two, cats continue to introduce themselves. Act
three unclear, which just about sums up the story. But
there's definitely movies that are worse offenders of continuing to
introduce characters like two thirds into the movie. I mean,
we'll sometimes that makes sense for the story with catch

(18:18):
Nick Jonah shows up late. Well, that's a twist, that's
an important is an important reveal. I know that after
he's turned into dust, we never really see him again.
Sky Skimble, Okay, here's the cats. A cat gets abandoned

(18:40):
by a mean human and dumped onto the mean streets
of London. Jump in with some music to that thank you,
thank you so much. Um. Then a bunch of other
cats approach her. We find out her name is Victoria eventually,
and they're all singing about jelical cats. That's who they are.

(19:02):
That's a club. Who they are. They're in the gelical
Cat Club. What is a jelical cat? What makes you
eligible to be a jelical cat? What are the characteristics
of a jelical cat? We still don't know. By the
end of the movie, they give you many examples. Romantical cats,
pedantical cats, critical cats, parasitical cats, allegorical cats, metaphorical cats,
statistical cats, mystical cats, political cats, hypocritical cats. There's a

(19:27):
lot of different kinds of cats. I really don't think
they could have explained themselves. And they're all jellical cats.
They're all jelical cats. They're kind of just ntrue wid
webber or or ts eliot. Uh, just whipped out a thesaurus,
thunked it down. They're like, let's fucking do this everything cats,
hysterical cats, eric the oratorical cats, delfic oracle cats, practical cats,

(19:53):
dramatical cats. I can honestly listen to you do that
all day, Jamie. This is my state of the Union scheme.
Thank you. All right, So I'm so sorry. We do
know what a jelical cat is. They call you become one.
How you're eligible to become How you can't have a
butt hole? Like that's the number one rule. You cannot

(20:14):
if you don't have if you you don't have a
butt hole, good news, you're yeah, where are these cats pooping?
There's a litter box in London on the streets. The
only way that this movie could have been worse is
if we saw one of the cats poop. I'm sorry,
did you say worse? I would I would be so happy.
I love it so much so, but the idea of

(20:35):
the jelical cats is they're basically like a group of
goth teenagers, right, They're just like a group of friends
that all want to die like that's and then they
have some like matriarch that's like I decide who gets
to die, and so like it's sort of like the
mid Summer thing where it's like, you know, we have
this ritual, someone dies and we all dance and kind

(20:57):
of rub up against each other. Yeah. Yeah, interesting. Why
wasn't Midsummer more like cats? I would have I would
have loved a little cat's energy in midsummer, just just
hairy bodies, not as throwing. A couple of songs, and
there are a lot of songs and a lot of
them are about jellical cats. And I still don't know

(21:19):
what they are. Okay, they tell you a lot of
different types of cats, but I don't think that they're
implying that those cats are there. I don't think the
political cat is there. I don't think that skeptical cat
is there. And I think they're just alluding to past.
Maybe they've they're just ones that have been sent to
the heavy side. Layers could be yes, right, So jelical
cats um and then there's Exposition Cat. He's one of

(21:43):
the cats that you're like, oh, he's sexy underneath all that, right, yeah,
like because he does look like more man than cat,
look more cat than person. He excws a little more
person than cat. Right. Mr mustaffs that actor looks like
a cat. Yeah, and he's my crush now, he's my

(22:05):
new crush. Lori Davidson. Sure, okay, so this is but
Exposition Cat. He's like, here, Victoria, let me show you around.
So we meet, we see some cats, and then we
meet Idris elba cat okat And then what ends up
happening is that mccavity starts, uh just magically poof disappearing

(22:28):
the jelical cats and they end up on a barge
because he wants to be he's eliminating his competition. But
he does things. But but in the I don't remember
how it happens in the musical. I've never seen a
professional production, so I've only seen mccavity just guide the
cat off stage to say I've got you. But Idris
Elba vapor turn them to death. He turns them into dust,

(22:52):
and he says things. He says a little catchphrase before
he does things like or one time he just goes
tell me later he says his own name. He's like,
he's just always giving it, and I think he like

(23:13):
his performance is incredible, if only it weren't so hard
to watch. I think that's a common theme, like everyone
was giving it, they're all, but they just they didn't
know it was in the context of something that they
should not have tried hard at. I want to I
wonder how he felt when he saw how because it's
like none of these people could have known what they
were going to look like when it's over. They simply

(23:35):
had no way of knowing. And so how did he
feel when they're like, do you like this? This is
what we did? And like it's kind of too late
to say anything, because I guess that they finished editing
in this movie the day it came out, Like yeah,
so even if Idris Elba had notes, they're like, thanks
for sharing. Anyways, it's out. Yeah. I have to imagine

(23:58):
that most of the cast were not necessarily thrilled with
the renderings of the cats. That's an anagram of cast
cats cats of cats, well like Bechtel cast. And then
I said Bechtel cats exactly exactly now, we're talking great. Okay,

(24:21):
So mccavity, the thing about him is that he's bad.
He's a bad cat, and they and I guess that
this was like part of the intended original text of T. S.
Eliott as well. But he's based on what's his name is,
Sherlock Villain? Oh, Moriarty, Moriarty to the point where in
the movie there's that poster that says Moriarty and then

(24:42):
mcavity is standing on top of it and he goes
and then it says mcaley and we're like, I get it. No,
I understood at the beginning. Yeah, so I guess that T. S.
Eliott was both the racist, misogynist, classist anti semite who
loved Sherlock Holmes as well. Okay, so there you go.
There you have it. Mcavity, mccavity, he's bad. But then

(25:06):
we meet Mr Mustapholes and he's good, good, he's so cute.
He's cute, he's cute. He's got a crush. Yeah, he's
got a crush Ontle Victoria Matt he's cute. If she
drops something, he's like, here it is. That's very attentive
to her needs. And then we find out about another

(25:27):
cat who we won't meet yet, but we we learn
about old Deuteronomy and she she's throwing she every I
guess every year. Is this an annual thing, Yes, the
jellical ball, in which she will make the jellical choice
about which jellical cat she will select to be reborn

(25:48):
into a new life and go to a place called
the heavy Side Layer, which is heavy. So this is
the movie about cats that want to die, yes, and
go to heaven with the assumption that they'll come back
to life, which in so far we don't hear that
the cats confirming. And then she came back. Yeah, it
seems like maybe they might just well, they wouldn't I

(26:10):
guess they wouldn't go back to like the mean streets
of London. They would just shot somewhere else, like yeah,
and like a rich person's house, like a fancy feast,
Like the cupboards are full of fancy feats. So they're like,
you won't be reincarnated as a jelical So we're kind
of not worried. We're just assuming things in the fall again,
what is a jelical cat? What those ones? Okay, those

(26:33):
one But we're like, okay, so we're jumping ahead here.
But at the end, Judy Dench cat is like Victoria,
you really are a jelical cat, And it's like, well
what about her? That just means that she's been hanging
out with them for six hours and hasn't gotten killed.
Like is that it? Also, do they hang out every day?
Seem like they live together. Well, some some of the

(26:54):
jelical cats seem to be like street cats. But then
you've got Jenny any Dots, who like seems to live
in like a cushy life in a house. But then
she I think like she kind of has this double
life where sometimes she she ventures out is out is out?
I don't. I don't an indoor outdoor cat. It seems
like Busta for Jones is kind of in and out
of homes as well. I don't know she's intruding or

(27:17):
if he's like just a row. Sometimes people just have
like a cat that isn't theirs, but it comes over.
My friend Martha has a cat that's not actually her cat,
but it hangs out in her house all the time.
That's really nice. That's really nice. So anyway, what's the
story so old Deuteronomy? She's gonna make a jellical choice,

(27:37):
and I guess now that's the plot. We meet Rebel
Wilson cat Jenny any Dots. She is one of the
jelical cat, vying to be the jelical choice. She sings
a song, she's like a sadest like torturing mice, Perkeley

(27:58):
cockroaches that she eats. It's a lot. And I don't
know how like faithful this is to the source material,
but I did really resent sort of how Rebel Wilson
and James Corden are just like it seems like most
of their direction is like, all right, so you're fat,
and that's hilarious, and then that was restlessly fat shame

(28:19):
throughout and it's just it's just it's an insulting it's
insulting to the actors. It's insulting to the audience as well.
It's just insulting the conversation to be had about that.
What what a mess. Then we meet Jason Derulo cat
a k rama is cat. He commits, he commits, and

(28:42):
he's a great job. He okay, Jason Derulo is doing
an Idris Elba impression the whole movie. Um. And then
things get very dramatic all of a sudden because Jennifer
Hudson cat shows up. Her name is Grizabella, and she
used to be a nice cat who everyone liked, but
then she got involved with Macavity in some capacity and

(29:04):
it's not clear what, but I would assume in a
Taylor Swifty kind of just like she assists him in
committing crimes. Is not not there someone check on Taylor
Swift's lungs. But the other cats have kind of turned
their backs on her, and it seems a little correct,

(29:26):
man if you disagree, but it seems like it's maybe
a little gender the way they position it. It always
seems like the female identified cats are more viscerally angry
with Grizabella than male cats. Everyone doesn't like her, but
there's like, I think two or three female cats that
we see, like after her two or three times, and

(29:49):
I'm just like, this is woman on woman violence, and
we don't I agree with cutting women against each other.
They're pretty antagonistic towards Victoria too, because in a scene
that arguably passes the Bechdel test. Although I don't know
if we ever learned those cats names, one of them
is like, what's your name? In Victoria's like, but she
doesn't respond. Right away, and then she's like, well, cat

(30:10):
call your tongue, right, they're a little antagonistic towards other women,
and you're like, um, excuse me, female cats supporting female cats,
which we later see with Victoria and Grizabella saying goodness, goods,
but there is they do. They do have that little
gendered woman. That's true to mean, female cats are the

(30:31):
like the most ordery, like you know, one eyed, you know,
fighting ears, nibbled off cats tend to be females. And
it's the barge cat to me. And this is no
no shade on the actor who played the barge cat
to me, I would have loved that role to have
been played by my childhood cat, Mittens because she was

(30:53):
a um, indomitable grump, total grouch and could just steamroll
anything in her path. She was, to use a someone
antiquated a little bit sexist term, she was a battle axe. Okay, alright, Um,
So after Grizabella SLINKs away, although like Victoria is curious,

(31:14):
she's like, who's that? What's her deal? Yeah? Victoria is
like what's going on there? And no one oppresent the explanation,
and then you cut to Jennifer Hudson, who as you said,
thinks maybe she might be winning an oscar for this,
and she's oh, she's crawling away on all four cross cats,
looking over her shoulder, tears streaming down her face, and

(31:35):
You're like, they didn't even finish the CG on her.
This this just like this looks. This looks it's a lot.
It is a lot, but I love it. And she leaves,
and who appears but James Cordon cat Busta for Jones. Yeah,
and he basically knows the movie he's in. I think so,

(31:55):
and we'll talk about that song. But he seems to
basically he's like a musical theater guy, so it kind
of makes sense that he's like, well, this movie isn't
going to be good, but I'll be in it, right.
And then mccavity makes Jenny any Dots and bust Of
for Jones disappeared. What's your favorite my I think one
of my my favorite mccavity, well, I guess Skimble is

(32:18):
my favorite cat disappearing because he just likes twirling up
into the areas song. But Jenny any Dots being turned
into dust is pretty funny too, because he like beckonser
over and she's in her she did that thing where
she unzipped her suit and then but then he's like,
your name should be in lots and she's like, yeah,

(32:41):
I know, I'm really good, and he's like, yeah, your
face should be on posters and that he points to
his own wanted bust. Yes, it is. It makes no
sense that the cats don't know who he is or
to look out for him, because they know who he
is and they, I know, everyone seems to know who
mccavity is and that he's bad. But then suddenly when
they come face to face with him, they're like, is

(33:02):
this nice cat? It doesn't make I'm like, is that
maybe a part of the magic? He's like Jedi mind
tricking them or some could be. That's the only way
it can make sense to me, because otherwise their animosity
towards Grizabella doesn't make any sense because they're only magic
Grizabella because of her association with mcavity, who they must
hate enough to know what he looks like, especially because

(33:23):
he's around. He shows up quite a bit between there
and his bar and the posters of his face all
over the point your face should be on a post
and then she looks at it and then it's like, oh,
that's who you are. And then he goes and then

(33:44):
she vanishes, and then she turns into dust and reappears
on Yes, so I guess he's also a jelical cat,
which like, how is he eligible to be a jelical cat?
But he's rounding up his competitors because he wants to
be chosen to be reborn. Well, that's another gender thing
where you're like, oh, I guess that it does make sense.

(34:05):
It old Deuteronomy is originally a male cat, and this
in the original production, it's a patriarchy, because that would
explain why Grizabella got tossed out of the jelical cast.
But for some reason, the Cavity can stay even though
he's the actual source of the problem. But Grizabella has
been extradited from Jelicles even though like it was just

(34:25):
her association to this guy who's still a jelical I'm
sure that someone smarter than me can be Like, it's
like an American politics when blah blah blah, it's that right.
It's that she's kind of been lewinskied basically, which means
that she's going to find have a second act on
social media Grizabella is going to be like, stop the bullying,
and we can't wait for it. I can't wait for it?

(34:47):
Is it that old Deuteronomy is has the final say?
And who gets she seems to be able to like, yeah,
she's like knighting them and being like you're a jelical cat.
You're not anymore? Like why can't she doesn't seem yeah,
take away mccavity's jelical status. She seems kind of powerless

(35:07):
to do it, which is kind of confused, and he
then he sends her on the plank later spoilers the plank.
Also the barge has a plank, of course it does. Okay,
So then Victoria meets to cat Burglars, Rumble Teaser and
Mungo Jerry and might I say the boring ones, the
ones I don't care about boring? Yeah, And they're nefarious

(35:29):
because they take her into this nice house and steal
a bunch of jewelry and then leave without her, and
she's like kind of stuck on something and Mr Mustaffs
has to come and save her because even female cats
need to be saved. And then there's a moment where
I swear like we were sitting in there there there's
a moment during that first of all, where you hear
a dog and I'm like, what did dogs look like
in this world? I wanted to because they've established that

(35:51):
every and every living creature on this planet is humanoid,
because the mice and the cockroach. The cockroach is humanoid.
I mean probably trees are humanoid. To the dogs, show
me the dog. The dog would have been so horrible.
Alfred Molina behind the door, like bark. Just imagine imagine
this universe. Birds humanoid, fish humanoid just like human fish,

(36:16):
and everything's humanoid. It's the implications are mind boggling. It's yeah,
it's an uncanny world. Snakes humanoid, really long humans. I
don't like it. But there at the end of that scene,
when yes, the Victoria has to be saved by Mr
Musta Files, there's a moment where I'm pretty sure it's
like heavily convinced, like you're supposed to think he has

(36:38):
a cat boner. They do they like nuzzle against and
then he goes oh, and you're like no, a barbed
penis begins to una like no, oh, it was not good. Okay.
So then then this is when Judy Dench cat old
Deuteronomy shows older are one on me, and when she enters,

(37:02):
the whole theater erupts into it's such a dramatic unveiling
and then everyone's like like, oh, it's very exciting. And
then also as soon as she shows up, Ian McKellen
cat is also suddenly there. He doesn't get entrithy, just
hi um. Then there's a big dance number, and then
Grizabella shows up again and Victoria. She sings the same song,

(37:27):
and Victoria kind of like extends in alive branch because
she's the one who's like, well, everyone else hates you,
but she's still like the other cat, she's nice. And
then but Grizabella SLINKs off again and now it's time
for the jelical ball and Ian McKellen the cat ak
Gus the theater cat. He sings a song. Then we
get a song from Skimble Shanks the Railway cat. If

(37:48):
you're getting if you're getting whiplash, this isn't Caitlin's fault.
It's that's the movie. Is a new cat being introduced
in singing a song about themselves. Like that's like the
whole movie is like it's like I'm bibbili bop the
shnibibily cat, and it's like he does a little dance
and a little song, and then it's like I'm some
bibilie and I'm the cat that eats ass, and then

(38:12):
the song and then another one. But but it is
still to spring the cat's defense forces out because I
know that former guest Lindsay Ellis is going to make
an amazing video about this, and we will we will
all feel so stupid for having said these things. But
it's grounded in the narrative in that when skimble Shanks

(38:32):
is shaking his package around, it's because in that theory,
he's presenting his case to be the gelical choice. That's
the theory. While you're hearing everything. Yes, so it actually
makes a lot of it actually is very narratively sound. Yes, um.
But so they both sing their songs, but mccavity shows
up again and makes both of them disappear. That's also

(38:55):
when Taylor Swift Cat shows up. Her name, I guess
is bomb Ballerina. She gets the all super high, super
high on cat and the nip which little note about cat,
and it doesn't just make cats high. It actually is
thought to act as like a fake cat pheromone. So

(39:15):
the fact that the cats are like undulating in the movie,
like they're all horny as heck is accurate. Good, that's
a good cat nip facts about but not about catney.
Not about cat nipples right right, which also gets cat horny.
But you know, but what are you gonna do? So

(39:35):
mccavity shows up and he's like, well, old dude, it
looks like I'm the only jelical cat left. I guess
you have to choose me, and she's like, never, I
only choose cats who deserve a new life, and your bad.
And then and then she's on the bar, and then
they're like Judy Dench. She walks the plank, and then

(39:56):
I guess she's on the plank for what is the
t minutes that Mr mustaf Les is trying to summon her.
I want to see, like the uncunt version of Elba,
just being like, so your hind right, we should keep
cutting back to old Deuteronomy. On the plank, she does
like I haven't changed my mind, and then he's like,

(40:20):
all right, walk one step further. So then it was
right we cut back to the theater where Victoria is like,
my boyfriend's a magical cat. He can get old dude
drawn me back, and I know that that's bad that
like she is there to like pump him, give him

(40:41):
enough like ego to make Judy dench up here. But
I've been that cat before. I've been like, this is
my boyfriend. He's really good at magic. And then he
proceeds to be horrible at magic. That was a very
triggering passage for me. But then we get one of
the songs in the production magical Mr Mustafel, and then

(41:05):
we see Mr Musa fills. I think that Mr mustafs.
He tries to make her appear three times, but it's
like he like, I'm gonna come, No, I'm not, I'm
gonna come. No, I'm not. I'm gonna come. No, I'm not.
And tail as old as time love to see it.
And then and he needs he needs Victoria to encourage
him before he can finally to get Look, the magical

(41:26):
wand is not in his hand. Let me tell you, well,
maybe sometimes it is, but it's the one we're looking at.
It's his penis, is what I'm trying to say. Is
the wand is his penis. Victoria gets some horny for
magic and honey gets horny for old dute. Old duke
comes back. I like that. You do see a man
with almost no confidence in himself, because that's rare. And

(41:51):
then Victoria sees Grizabella outside and she's like, come in
here and sing. Victoria is like, it is better be
the last time you sing memory, because it's the fourth time,
and she does it. An old Deuteronomy is like, wow, Grizabella,
that was so good. You're the jelical choice. And you
know what, old dude o Grizabella an apology, yeah, and

(42:14):
doesn't give one. She should be like, I am so
sorry I kicked you out of the jelicals. That was
sexiest of me. I I, old dude, have internalized misogyny.
It's hard for me to untrain myself from these things.
But I need to make teach an old cat new
tricks and and and then she's like, I just remembered

(42:36):
I should have kicked out my cavity dot. I'm so sorry,
you may die and she just hot air balloon to heaven.
And then she's like Victoria, Wow, good instinct on thinking
that Grizabella was good. You're a jelical cat now, so

(42:57):
I guess why she's a gelical cat because she did
a good right. So I guess that means Victoria is
eligible to die next year at the next ball, and
a lot of that breaks Victoria. And then there's the
five minute scene where Judy Dench breaks the fourth wall
and then ends the movie with the most profound line
I've ever heard in cinema, because she says, most importantly,

(43:21):
a cat is not a dog. And we were like,
what blew me away? It's weird. That is one of
we have to take a quick break. That's the end
of the movie. We have to take a quick break,
and then we have to really get a lot of
discussion infa we're back my mom. Wow wow wow wow.

(43:47):
Um okay, so context corner for cats. For for a
play with no plot, there's a fair amount of context.
So this is an Andrewoid Webber musical. Um. It originally
came out in one. He was allowed to do this
because Evida had been very successful. Jesus Christ Superstar had

(44:08):
been very successful. Not not just anyone could have gotten
this mate because it doesn't make any sense. But it's
adapted from an old book of T. S. Eliott poems
called Old Possums Book of Practical Cats, which was published
in the nineteen thirties. So most of the lyrics in
this entire musical are direct T. S. Eliott poems or

(44:30):
poems that have been modified slightly. But all the characters
the letters from his wife, right, because like his wife
was like um said something in some letter. Whereas like cats,
when cats did, they go up up, up up to
the heavinside layer. So the heaven side layer is referenced
once in the book of poems, but it like they
expand on the idea of it through letters. Um. But

(44:53):
basically it was a book of children's poetry written by T. S.
Eliott that Andrew Lord Webber really liked as a child.
And all the character names come from T. S. Eliott,
like he effectively wrote the play. Basically, all the I
P Is T. S. Eliot's And he just didn't live
long enough to prevent this from happening, is basically, and
so Andrew Lie Webber uses his blank check as very

(45:16):
successful composer to get this made. Um T. S. Eliot.
It is extremely worth mentioning that he was notoriously I mean,
he was every kind of bigoted it was possible to be,
and it shows and all of his most famous works,
including some things in Cats that um, for the most part,

(45:36):
have been edited out, but over the years that wasn't
always true. Um. But he I think is most famously
deeply anti Semitic. But there's a lot of racism in
his work. There's a ton of misogyny in this work.
I was wondering about that aside and the thing about
like the global bangers in the movie that was really weird. Yeah,
and he's also deeply like he came from money, like
he just had every privilege it's possible to have and

(45:58):
doesn't give a funk about anyone except people who are
exactly like him. Uh, you know, rich white straight men.
So uh, he is bad. Uh. And there there's that
whole like academic like there are some academic analysts that
will like do the mental gymnastics necessary to justify it,
but there's really no excusing it. Um. It's not especially

(46:21):
present in this book, but but there was for the
most part Andrew laid Webber. He has he's a member
of the British Conservative Party, so we can't stand him
in that regard. But he has um historically gone to
bad for queer people and people of color in his
musicals extended Universe. So there are some ideas between T. S.

(46:42):
Eliott Andrew laid Webber that are directly conflicting. And Andrew
loud Webber does a fair amount to steer his way
around stuff. I don't agree with the casting of this
movie in some ways, but um, in general, Um, through
the years, Cats has been kind of fluid in terms
of gender race. They're fucking cats, Katie. You mentioned the

(47:04):
gender of Old Deuteronomy has changed through various adaptations. There
are some cats that were originally played by white actors
that are later played by black actors, and uh and
vice versa, and angel Wee. Webber has a fairly good
track record of going to bat for actors that aren't
just the straight white actors. So there's that. But um,

(47:26):
there was a song that was removed, only removed from
Cats in that says a blatant slur um towards Asian people,
and that was a line taken directly from T. S.
Eliott um and the number it was a growl tiger
number that was removed. So in any case, there were

(47:49):
at very least adaptation changes made. And I think that
that's like basically the background you need is. We can
blame Andrew lid Webber for making it scary, but all
the things that are problematic are generally t s eliott
I p okay, and let us talk about these problematic things,

(48:12):
because I mean, this is one of those movies where
it's just like so nonsensical that it's almost sort of
hard to analyze on any meaningful level because it's just like, well,
none of it makes sense. And they're also cats, so like,
how much can we talk about the representation of women?
And yet I insisted we do this? Well, I mean,

(48:34):
Victoria needs rescuing. Victoria needs rescuing. She is maybe the
most passive protagonist of any movie I've ever seen in
my entire life, and the fact that she is a
female character, you know, means we just have an extremely
passive female protagonists. It's also wild that they had to
add in a song for her for this movie. She

(48:56):
didn't even have a like the song like beautifuckers, that
song that sucks being about being haunted. No, I had
no idea what they were talking about that song, Like,
like what I gathered from it, it it was like sucks
for you that you were kicked out of this jellical group,
but like they like me, so um yeah, but she

(49:17):
like that song was written for this movie because so
she didn't even have that much originally. She was truly
like nothing nothing, and the direction for her like she's
she is definitely that actor or ballet dancer. She's a
great ballet dancer, super talented. Not criticizing her at all,
but the direction for her seemed to be basically like

(49:39):
look wide eyed, innocent and sexy at all times. And
that's like, yeah, problem, especially because she's not really given
much to do, like she doesn't do anything except lift
up Mr mustapholes, and I mean she does. I do
like generally how she is the only cat willing to
like talk to Grizabella and bring her in, Like I

(49:59):
think that that women lift up other women and healthy
women and then old dude. I like the choice of
old dupe being a woman in this and that she
gives Grazi Balla the second chance, and that you get
the matriarchy through Judy Dench, And I think that those
are all cool choices controversial slash straight up bad editing.
CG choice was that so Francesca Hayward is a black woman,

(50:23):
but you would never know that based on how she's
stylized in the movie. She's essentially I mean, there's been
there's a million articles on this that will have more
cogent thoughts than the two seconds I have to summarize this.
But basically, when the trailer for this movie came out
in July, a lot of people were like upset because
because this movie has a black female lead, but you

(50:46):
would never know it, particularly because she's a ballet dancer
and she's not recognizable to the general public. So like
we I didn't find out that she was a black
woman until before the third time I saw it, and
and uh, you know, the the pushback on that was like, well,
you're not supposed to be able to tell the race
of any of the cats, but that's not true. Calm

(51:07):
down there, Stephen Colbert. It's very it's like it's not true.
And even with I hate that. I hate that when
they use that excuse for like, oh, we literally don't
see race, like nice, try, like you still have to
do good representation, and you can identify the race of
almost any other cat in the entire maybe you should
see Taylor Swift is not a like snow white cat,

(51:31):
but you can still see in the way that she's
edited the bottom of her face, you can tell what
ethnicity she is. So it's like a shitty argument, and
it is whitewashing a black female character. Yeah, because yeah,
and then like Jennifer Hudson, Idris Alba, and Jason Drulo
are all like visibly black. Also, that's kind of messed
up too, because like with with You, just like one

(51:52):
of the lyrics of the song is that he's a
ginger cat, like he's got like, you know, ginger coloration
of the cat, and then that he doesn't. That was
a weird big in the musical. Cavity has been played
by a black man before, but it's still a ginger cat, right,
because that's how they describe them. I mean, it's okay
if you don't do that, but then why didn't Then

(52:12):
how come the argument is like, oh, well, you know,
it's just like they're all just cats. But then like
you changed that, you didn't change Victoria. It doesn't make
sense the casting of this movie. I mean it's a
very diverse cast. I think that it's just again it's
like an issue of just like a very white behind
the scenes crew that if not thinking critically or hard
enough about the choices that they're making because you're casting

(52:35):
uh you know, like the only two true outliers from
the gelical world are two black characters. You've got Idris
Elba as Macavity and then you have Jennifer Hudson as Grizabella.
So so it's like the it's like the optics, I
wouldn't be shocked if they're like, yeah, no one thought
of it. So a lot of things seem to slip

(52:56):
through the cracks with this movie. Yeah, um, to talk
about the body shaming of some of the cats, Rebel
Wilson cat and James Cordon cat, they're both plus size actors,
and then uh, I think at least James Cordon has
like a fat suit on, um, making him appear bigger

(53:19):
than he for sure, for sure. So this is again
it's just like an adaptation issue, I think, where it's
like when you're writing about a chubby cat and a poem,
it's very different than shaming a famous actor for their
size and you know, kind of forcing them to make
fun of themselves in a way that feels dated and

(53:40):
like uncomfortable and unfair. Um, so like you don't have
to adapt it that way, and and and because this
is like the sinister spiral of adaptations of it's like
poem to musical to movie. You can change how it's
presented in the musical too, but they don't. I don't, right,

(54:01):
And and just to be clear, the issue is that
like there should be a much wider array of body
size is represented in across all movies. So the fact
that you have like plus size actors in this movie
is great. The problem is they're just like those characters
are characterized as being shown constantly eating. Rebel Wilson is

(54:23):
a gumby cat, which I guess just laziness, sits around,
does nothing. They're just like always stuffing their faces. And
they're also the first two cats to be captured. Maybe
that's just because they're the first two cats jelical cats
will get introduced. But it's just like it sends a
message also, it makes me think, so like remember that
really disturbing scene where Rebel Wilson, the Rebel Wilson cat

(54:47):
like unzips her skin and there's a dress, the tight
cocktail dress under her skin and then more for under
the dress, which everyone's freaked out about. I've been thinking
about why they would do that and why they wouldn't
give her like you know how like you just Elbow's
character and old old dude, like it's like a furry
coat in like sort of like fluffiness, and then that

(55:09):
would be much less traumatizing to see her character off.
I think twice it becomes a plot point. And I
think the reason that they had to do that is
because they want to accentuate the fact that she's fat.
And I think that was a way of like humiliating
her in a way like the character. Does that make sense, Yeah,

(55:30):
I I don't really know like how it's portrayed in
the original musical, so I don't even I mean that
could be something that's either being played down or up
in either direction. I'm not totally sure. But it doesn't
come off well at all. And it's just like it's
not fair to the actors. Both James Gordon and Rebel
Wilson have had to like play in a way that
mocks their own size for years and years. It's really

(55:51):
it's really insulting. Yeah, and and it's not a joke
that anyone is laughing at anymore. Like it's just it's uncomfortable.
I feel like we I want to be optimistic and
say largely as a society have kind of like moved
past that, and like the fat acceptance movement has done
so much work that seeing like a goofy movie that

(56:13):
doesn't need to do this. There's so many dumb things
you can do with Rebel Wilson and James Corden. They're comedians,
like they're uniquely qualified to make anything funny. And then
just to be like, Nope, your body is the joke.
We're not going to change the source material at all. Sorry,
Like and just any time that there's like a refusal
to adapt something like that is just it's just lazy.

(56:34):
It just sucks. It's like what you're gonna like take
a bunch of steps backwards in any progress that's been
made for fan service or to like have a more
faithful adaptation like who cares, No one cares. But then
it's I mean it's an impossible christen their part, because
if I'm Rebel Wilson and someone is like do you
want to be in Cats? I'm like whatever it takes.

(56:56):
So so it's it just it Yeah, where it's definitely
it's an issue. It's the refusal to adapt. It is
so it's glaring and it and it makes the best
movie less the best. And while there have been strides
made in the body positivity movement and there's less fat

(57:17):
shaming than there was in the past, it's still a
huge issue. And I think, particularly in Hollywood, there's still
a refusal to cast plus size actors and things. It's
getting a little better, but like, and the types of
parts that plus size actors get tended to be the
same stock characters that this doesn't strive from stray cats

(57:39):
at all. A thing that Rebe Wilson has to deal
with a lot in most of the movie she gets
cast in is that she's made to be also very clumsy,
like constantly falling or like getting hit in the head.
And yeah, we're like, so her most famous character's name
is fat Amy. It's like it's ridiculous, um, But in
this movie, I mean no exception where she's like falling

(58:00):
all the time, She like falls off the chair and
she's they're just like both her and James Cordon cat
are are like clumsy, just kind of bumbling on. That's
that's kind of a trope that has to do, like
a sort of size of trope worts like oh if
you're if you're fat, you're like doofy clumsy or your gluttonous,
you're greedy, and like like the James Cordon character embodies

(58:23):
some of that, where he's like he's greedy, he's gluttonous,
he's like, you know, sort of like a prima donna
and like the same. It's just it was just bad.
It's it's and it's too bad too, because it's like,
I mean, obviously, like I understand why they would take
these roles in this amazing, perfect, built to succeed movie. Uh,
And James Cordon, to his credit, has done a fair

(58:44):
amount of like good activism for plus size people, and
so it's just it just sucks that they're subjected to this.
It's because like it's not it doesn't read well to anybody, right, Well,
you look at like the roles that plus size people get,
and it's like pretty every everyone who's been prominent has
had to take a role where like the main joke
is that you're big, and it's just like it's it's

(59:06):
cringe e for audiences in general, Like it's just bad.
You can say something I liked Old Dude in general.
I like old Dude. I like how Judy Dench plays
her too seriously. I like but I but I did
like that. Well, it seems like Grizabella's character was originally

(59:29):
supposed to be pretty agist, and her whole character is
built around like the quote unquote, like the indignities of aging,
the feeling of irrelevant female beauty fading, and like these
things that are real. And I think we're even reeler
in n but it's kind of uncritical of them. But
then she's redeemed. It's kind of confusing. But for in

(59:52):
terms of old Dude, I like that um old dude
is allowed to be just as freaky sexual as all
the other cats. I loved the orgy with old Dude.
I loved that right because they go into the theater
and they have a massive orgy and they rub against No,
it's not even like I mean, okay, I'm exaggerating a
little bit. They don't literally have sex, but they rub

(01:00:14):
up against each other. Old due Old Dude gets in
there and like they they're rubbing up against her, and
it's like this kind of pan sexual cat orgy, and
I'm it's we have a pan sexual cat orgy. I'm
here for representation. We've needed for decades, but it is cool.
I mean, I feel like I agree with them. You're
making a very good point. I'm kind of being silly,

(01:00:35):
but I agree with that. Yeah, oh yeah, just like
that that people over a certain age, particularly women over
a certain age, are not afforded, aren't allowed to be
sexual in any way, and everyone in this movie is
too sexual. Judy Dench included. Did you see Judy Dench's
cute little like leg thing where she's sitting in her basket.
She was sitting in the basket like sort of that
they paint me like one of your French cats post

(01:00:56):
that she does the leg kick and she's like, I'm
screw Like, yeah, everyone, we all screamed, We all screamed
for Judy Dene's cat legs. But she, she and Ian
McKellen are are just as horny as the next cat
on the block. So that's I thought. I love I
love a horny cat, Judy Dinch. She really fun fact

(01:01:17):
about Judy Dench is that she was so excited to
be in this movie because she was originally supposed to
play I think either Grizabella or Victoria in the original
production of Cats, and then she got hurt and she
couldn't do it, but she's been a cat's stand for
all these years. And then Mr Webber was Lord Webber
was like, damn, will you be my old dude? And

(01:01:39):
she said yes, yes, yes can I kick? Like it
was good for her? Good um. One of the adaptations
that I liked in Cats. And that's why anytime that
someone's like, I can't change the Jenny any Dut song,
I can't change Busta for Jones song. And then you're like,
but you changed a lot of stuff in good Bye.

(01:02:00):
You took out the racist song we need we needed
that and changed that I really liked as they changed
old Deuteronomy, who who has been played by all genders
um throughout the years. The production I saw, by the way,
the most recent production I saw, a friend of the cast,
friend of the Cats, Corey Johnson played old and incredible.

(01:02:22):
It was and I had completely forgotten. And then Corey
is like, I'm old dude, and like, I don't know
what that means. And she she's like, she's like, it
seems like I'm never going to come out, and then
I do. I was like, all right, and that's exactly
and they it was in time. It was at the lyrics.
It was like a tiny theater, and so there's just
Corey like walking really slowly to the center of this stage.

(01:02:43):
She's wearing this huge cape and you're just like, what
is happening? It was, It was so great. Corey is
a better old dude than Judy Dench. But if it
is nice for the for the big feature adaptation, UM
to see them make the choice to have it be
a matriarchy. UM. I think that there are a few

(01:03:04):
things that make a little bit less sense when it's
a matriarchy, UM, like Grizabella being extradited and Macavity not.
But in general, I think it's a good choice. Yes,
I liked it, Yes, indeed. Um, well you've got your list, Um,
I just let me let me go through my I
brought a notebook to hear the pages turning at a ce. Um,

(01:03:30):
let me just go through and see what very stupid
jokes I wrote down. Gus the theater cat. Um, he
sings a song about the good old days and how
maybe it would be nicer if we return to the
good old days. So I'm he's a maga cat, is
what I'm saying. Yeah, he's an okay boomer cat by
the way, who is running tech at the Jellical Ball, Isaac,

(01:03:53):
I think your boyfriend I whever he's rinning. Techi's anting
tech everywhere, including the Jellical Ball, and he didn't get
hate on time for it. I like the other choice
that you're like, whose idea was this? Um was during
Magical Mr. Mstaffs when Jason to Rula starts like going
falsetto Oh yeah, it's like madocal bistrostoffle Like, I feel

(01:04:19):
like they only did like one take and then we
were like, oh, Jason, you weren't supposed to do that,
but we only had the one take, so let's just
move on. We were talking about this at the theater,
but it's so most actors you could tell, like the
famous people were not there more than they had to be.
But Jason Derula seemed to be there every day. He's
in the background of every shot. He's like there. He's
in so many things that you're like, wouldn't have missed him,

(01:04:41):
but he's just like like he's just back there. He
loves cats. He loves cats. What else did you let's see? Um? Oh?
That um? What song is that? Run? Amy? Right? I
just can't stop thinking read it. Um, the like hip

(01:05:03):
hop cats who wear the sneakers the boy cats that
they were wearing Mike, Yeah, I think that that was
added for the movie. I don't really have anything else
to say about it. But they come up a couple
of times. They're on the there on Skimble's train, They're
in the bed at Skimbles on Skimbles train, the sneakers,

(01:05:24):
sneakers in the bed whatever. Um, there's a bunch of
like really stupid cat puns, which look, I think if
they had just tried a little harder, they could have
gotten some better things. I like when Wilson says, don't
mess with the crazy cat lady and then she beats
up growl tiger. I have to admit I like that part.

(01:05:48):
That was fine. There's the whole like cat tongue joke. Um.
I think Rebet Wilson says, like who let the cat
out of the bag? That one wasn't very good when
they didn't cut any of the improv that they do,
Like you just get to feel like Tom Hooper's on
the other side of the camera, like say something about it,

(01:06:09):
say something about a cat. I don't know how he talked.
I know he's brittish us like something about a cat.
James corn is like a cat, and then he's like,
all right, it stays oh, and then James Cordon lands
on his cat balls. Do you remember that part? He
doesn't on his cat testicles? But then someone else is

(01:06:32):
accused of being neutered. I forget who that is. Oh um,
is that Jason Derillo? Yeah, Rebel Wilson does some improvised
line about like has he he he just has he
not been neuted or something because he's making everyone he's
doing like a falsetto, and she thinks that like he's
like a eunuch cat. I thought that it was because

(01:06:52):
he's been making everyone horny. My read was that he
was singing. Because no, she says something like he's singing
so high as if he's been neutered the way that
like they used to cast right, young boys just don'ts
and it's just Jason Deruloh under all that. They're like, no,
he's just a soprano. Is Jason Deruloh? Yeah? I don't know.

(01:07:13):
There was also every time I watch it and all
the female cats become violently horny when Jason Derulo comes
on the scene. I'm like, there's some commentary there, but
I'm too horny to figure out what it is. So
you know, if anyone has a read on that, feel
free to share. I haven't. I haven't been able to
calm myself down enough to analyze that passage. Yeah, I

(01:07:36):
can't make heads or tails, like is that sexist? But
also I'm horny heads tales of it. I found some
other bad puns from the movies. Someone says, look what
the cat dragged in, and then someone says, oh, I
think this is Rebbe Wilson. She says, stop milking it.
And then I think there's like a sign that it's

(01:07:58):
supposed to be like for a casino, but it says catsino.
There's all this. I wish I'd paid more like close
attention to the sign. I'm pretty sure all the signs
are cat adjacent because there's like, yeah, because there's that
iconic scene that we somehow haven't brought up where there
at the milker curious. It makes sense when you take

(01:08:24):
in the scope of the song. Rum tongue Tuger is indecisive.
He wants what he can't have, but there's this moment
he's walking out of the bar the milk bar. He's like,
no more milk. He's done. Who's that four? Is that
four cats? Or is it for It seems like it's
for humans. It says like milk all night log in London. Um.

(01:08:45):
But he walks out, he's like, no more milk and
then he gets two steps out and he goes, no,
it's not sung, it's just screamed. It's good neg Oh
my god. How about your list? My list? Okay, I'm

(01:09:05):
going to make a more detailed graphic about this, um
if you're welcome for the betel cast official accounts. So
a lot of people have been saying that this movie
is going to be a midnight screening classic like Rocky
Horror or The Room or The Room, and with those
when you go to those movies, there's specific things we're
supposed to yell at the screen, specific things we're supposed

(01:09:26):
to do when certain things happen, which means there will
be a system devised for this movie. Maybe we can
get ahead of it and contribute to history. Let's do it.
This is not that this is mainly just a list
of things I list I wrote down on my phone
because you're allowed to have your phone out during this movie,
no one gets mad at you. So I made a
list on my phone during my second viewing of the

(01:09:47):
movie of just things that we're getting reactions that I'm like,
we could figure this out. I'll try. I'll try to
crystallize that a little more for social media. But I
can't feel free to jump in thank you. So this
was made during them. Okay, when cats wear hats, you
can scream. I mostly just added places you can scream.
When cats where hats, you can scream. Anytime a new
cat start a song, you can yell who is that? Um.

(01:10:11):
When a cat disappears into dust, you have to drink.
When each elbows on screen, you can yell his career
may never recover. Um, let's see, there has to be
some sort of rule with the with the when the
mice and the and the cockroach, there has to be
something right. There has to be something there. Oh, when
rum Tom Talker comes on screen, you have to go
Jess and that has to happen obviously, Um, something about

(01:10:37):
pussy jokes. I just run that time. Um, oh, milk,
there has to be something there. When Grizabella starts to
crawl in the ground, you can yell drama queen. Uh.
When James Cordon's song is ending, you can yell your
move fallon you fucking zick. Oh. Uh. When James Cordon's

(01:10:58):
cat noubles come out, you can say show me the
other four, sweetie. Um during the other four six sorry
the other I'm so sorry, I was drunk. Um during
Mungo Jerry and Rubble Teaser Ugo, p everyone leaves at theater.
Let's see do something when the cats get horny but
they don't get bonners. Um. Oh this is okay, this

(01:11:22):
is a half developed thought. But whenever Ian McKellen is
on screen and doing something that's a little weird, um,
you just pretend that he did one take of everything.
So whenever he goes my mom mama, you could be like, wow,
he had one take. Great. If you get in quiet moments,
you can just say regular volume lame is was pretty good.

(01:11:44):
Whenever Judy Dent is talking and no one is listening,
you can just be like, what are you talking about?
Like when she's like staring out the window at Grizabella
and Victoria becoming friends and she's just talking about she's
like something about a cat days going to happened soon,
and you're just like shut up. You can yell shut
up at any at any time, you can ye shut

(01:12:07):
up um at any time, you can yell what year
is it? Oh? And here's my favorite one. This is
something that my friend John Milstein did while we were
seeing the movie. But so you know, during Um Skimble
Shanks the Railway Cats song, at one point he starts
to tap and he starts slow, and then it gets
kind of faster. So okay, so once he starts to tap,

(01:12:28):
you can go, oh, then he'll table a faster and
then you go oh. And then when he starts to
really go, you go, oh, here we go. That's the
most satisfying thing. If anyone has anything to add to
the Midnight Cat screening rules, I'm going to try to
be crowdsourcing them online. So if we can really pull
something together, I think anytime there's like a cat, a

(01:12:49):
bad cat, pun something, oh, absolutely something, there's enough. There's enough. Yes,
well that that's a great list. Thank you so much
for curating that. You can also boom. Mr Mustapole says
he continues to fail there when he goes and then
you got and then he just starts to say he
keep singing. It's well, I never was there ever a

(01:13:12):
cat so clever as magical, Mr Mustapolis. There's never a
cat that I want to hook up with in real
life as much as oh no again. Um, well, does
cats pass the Bechtel test? I believe it does. Yeah,

(01:13:35):
I think so. I believe it does. I think it's
a few times with Grizabella and Victoria they talk about
things like loneliness and female beauty being fleeting there. Yeah,
and then also old Deuteronomy and Victoria she's like, do
you want to come to the jocal ball my favorite

(01:13:57):
thing that passes the Bechtel test? What is the exact
reason where it's like, like Victoria's like, I'm astray, I'm
alone in the world, and old dudes like, oh that sucks. Pause.
Do you want to see me make the jellical choice?
You're like okay. She basically is like anyways, sorry, but
more importantly it passes. Yeah. Um so yeah, we've got

(01:14:22):
We've got not that much interaction, at least not spoken
interaction between female characters. I do like how the female
cats do nozzle each other. That's good. I could have
used a little more like male characters nozzling each other,
because I think that would have been I think the
um fight the toxic Mr must and Skimble Shanks should nuzzle. Yeah,

(01:14:44):
God damn it. Why doesn't Skimble get black Skimbles a
career man. He doesn't have time for a relationship. She's
on this train every night. He's got he's got a
cat in every city. He's like a touring comedian. Oh
all right, so our nipple scale, our our five cat nipples?

(01:15:05):
Uh was zero to five nipples based on its representation
of female cats. Oh geez, I guess like I was
gonna go to nipples three because I got horny, okay
nipples and to James cordon arials. Okay, yeah, I think

(01:15:28):
I'll go with I don't know. I guess it's two
between all of the just like the extremely passive female protagonists.
But then also you have like female characters lifting each
other up and there's a matriarchy. But like again, like
this is one of those movies that it's just so trichy,

(01:15:49):
the meo triarchy. It's too outlandish to really apply any
sort of like feminist criticism to Celis video job. I know,
I'll just go two point five right down the middle
because I don't know what else to do. But it
is a blast to watch if you're with friends and

(01:16:11):
a big group of people just laughing, laughing it up. Yeah,
it's and I love it. It has problematic elements. I
wish that more had been adjusted for the adaptation, but
you know, I I three nipples. I don't care to
explain myself at this time. Three cat nipples. They're all
going to skambles of course. Okay, how about you? Yeah,

(01:16:36):
Like I said, I'd give it like maybe two cat nipples,
and like a James Cordinary like a Yeah, it's not
a good movie. It's not a good movie philosophically. It
doesn't really do a good job socially or in the
terms in any way a movie really should do. The
reason I'm giving it some nipples is I think every

(01:17:00):
everyone acted their little cat hearts out, and I appreciated that,
even though it was misplaced and the sheer. There's something
to be said about a movie that is so bizarre
and bad that it becomes this lightning rod that I
think I do value, Like I think that it's it
has you know, all these conversations are now happening, So

(01:17:21):
that's in a way that's art true. Yeah, Well, Okay,
thanks for joining us, Thanks for having me. Where can
people find you online? You can find me at pro
bird Writes on Twitter, where I make the case for
a world of birds and and i'd actually like to
I'm going to start making a Bird's musical um with

(01:17:42):
you know, such characters as Mr Cheap Cheap Beep Beep,
the Musical Bird and um. You can find me at
Katie Golden and I host Creature Feature, a podcast about
the animal and human world and how hey, we ain't
so different after all. In fact, sometimes we look exactly
like hats and move around and rubber nipples everywhere. Oh yes,

(01:18:07):
check out Creature Future podcast. It's right here in this
network and it's great. You can find us all over
the place. Most importantly, we're gonna be going on tour
very soon. Yes, we'll be in San Francisco on the second,
we will be in Brooklyn on and we will be
in Philadelphia on the We can go to our website

(01:18:29):
pecktel cast dot com and click on live to see
more stuff about that and other shows we're doing. Uh,
you can find us online wherever, not hard, don't overthink
it and just search pecktel Cats and he'll he'll definitely
find us. You'll find us, or you'll find some sinister
impostor like my Cavity not the cavity drunk here. Uh

(01:18:54):
uh signed for our patreon ak Matreon at Patreon or
is it our k cat treat our Patreon, which actually
just um that's Patreona calm slash back to cast cat
cast uh. And we're doing what movies this one month?
We're doing We're doing a net flanuary whatever were we

(01:19:16):
calling it? Janet? And either way it sucks. If we're
doing we're doing. The episodes are great. We're doing um
someone great and um kissing both. So look out. Joey
King just got hit in the head with the golden
globe the other day. One of my favorite most recent celebrities.

(01:19:39):
I didn't see that. So she was in this mini
series that was scary Act with the Act with Patricia Arquette.
Tricia Arquette won a golden globe and then accidentally bonked
poor Joey. She has some great picks. I'd like to
plug Joey King's Instagram. She has a million billion followers,
but always good to help. If you want to see
her head bonked, that's where you can and catch it

(01:20:01):
um and public dot com slash at the back to
the last for we need to we should do a
cat's shirt, the Bital cats cat and then it's us
but we're uncanny. You look like cats. Okay, I'll get
to work right away to the rab Oh my god. Wow. Okay,
thanks everyone, Ama