Charlie's Angels (2000)

Jamie, Caitlin, and special guest Sasheer Zamata are a trio of crime-fighting women who solve the mystery of whether or not Charlie's Angels (2000) is a feminist text. 

(This episode contains spoilers)

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the bell Cast, the questions asked if movies have
women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,
or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef in best
start changing it with the Bedel Cast. Hello Charlie, Yes,

(00:20):
it's me Charlie. Oh Hi, I'm a hot girl. What
do you want me to do? I want you to
do a mission, But you'll never meet me, and that's
then of ours kind of that's what's kind of hot
about it. Isn't You're an old man that I can't
see and I can never meet, And that's kind of
what gets me going with all my friends and Bill

(00:41):
Murray fucking what there? Hi? Welcome to the Bechdel Cast.
This movie is so weird. Okay, um Hi, Welcome to
the Becktel Cast of My name is Jamie Loftus. My
name is Caitlin Darante. This is our feminist movie podcast
and as you can tell, we're going to discuss a
very feminist movie today, a feminist text. True. I mean yeah,

(01:03):
I've truly built myself from the building blocks of these
various bikini people. Um yeah. I also learned who Sam
Rockwell was from this movie. What is this podcast. So
we talk about I know, this is our first time
recording in quite some time. We take each other a
big gap in like a month, maybe even more, No,

(01:24):
September one. Isn't it weird that I've been keeping counting
like I have haven't seen you for twenty nine days? Well,
all right, because of our live episodes. Oh my goodness,
you're right. Okay, yes, anyway, so we're all out of sorts,
but we're back and better than ever. And we talk
about the representation of women in film and how it's usually,
you know, not the best, and we use especially in

(01:46):
the year two thousand, I think that this is maybe
a low and indeed, yeah, and we used the Bechdel test,
sometimes known as the Bechdel Wallace test, which requires that
female identifying characters with names must speak to each other
about something other than a man. Hello. Oops, it already fails.

(02:10):
Um by our standards, it must just be a two
line exchange, right, So we're set. We're starting by setting
the bar real low and seeing if if any movies
can crest it. And that the test is invented by
cartoonist Alison Bechdel, and sure is. Oh boy, we're back.
We're back nine days. I feel like I haven't spoken

(02:31):
so long. We also have a guest with us. Yes,
per usual, our guest today. She's a comedian, a writer.
You've seen her on SNL and she's the co host
of the podcast Best Friends with past guest of the show,
Nicole Byer. It's shears amid up. Yes, Hi, Hello, Charlie.

(02:57):
Oh what a who do we know? Who plays char
in the movie? It's the actual Charlie from the TV show.
Oh the back of the back of the head guy
at the end of that actor that we saw physically
in the movie is the same person. But the voice
is the same as the guy who played Interest in
the TV show. And I'm looking up his name as

(03:19):
we speak, and he's not first build, So let me
give me a second. Well, that's part of why he
is such an icon, as he doesn't take up space.
John forsites it's his name. And this is not passing
the Bechdel test, so they're not all going to pass.
But so, sire, thank you so much for being here. Um,

(03:40):
tell us about your history, your relationship with this movie,
this maybe franchise as it were, and and so to be.
We're talking about the two thousand movie version Cameron Diaz,
Drew Barrymore, Lucy Loo. Yes, yes, I watched this movie
when he came out. I'm pretty sure I saw Full
Throttle as well, and I remember liking it. It's fun

(04:02):
to see women do stuff that's like action every thinking
that was fun, And this is my first time seeing it,
probably since it came out. I think that's probably the
case for a lot of people. Yeah, this isn't a
movie that people seem to like revisit a lot. Yeah,
we're and we're discussing it because the reboot is about

(04:23):
to come out, because legally, you have to everything, So
that's why we're did I mean otherwise, I truly don't
know if I ever would have seen or thought about
this movie again. And I'm sure that that's true for
maybe everyone who was in the movie. Do you have
the name of them? I got really stuck on this

(04:44):
when I was like doing the background research for this movie.
The name of the director is just is that he
don't know that. I'm not familiar with Mick Gee's work.
I guess I feel like he was a music video
director he which makes sense for her. Okay, that makes
more sense to me. I was just like how this

(05:05):
is his first feature, but he also he comes back
for full throttle. He does Keeping in the Family because
he was a success the first time. Nick g and
then and then the movie is of course written by
three men, including John August, who um I think people
maybe think better of but you know, it was, it was.
It was two thousand. I do remember noticing that Drew

(05:28):
Barrymore produced this movie, like when it came out and
or like she's one of the producers, and I remember
being like fucking good for her, like because she's had
a life, you know, like from going from like a
twelve year old attictude still alive and really like creating
her own ship. I think that's really great and awesome.
So and she made a ton of money off this franchise. Yeah,

(05:50):
oh yeah, yeah, and she's and when this movie came out,
she's like still only twenty five, which is crazy insane.
Oh yeah, yeah, I mean she's lived several lives. Yeah, Jamie,
what's your history relationship with this? I think pretty similar.
I remember seeing this movie at like a sleepover at

(06:10):
some point, thinking it was really funny and cool and like,
I don't know, I was probably like eleven, so I
was like, oh, I understand this sexy joke and like,
just everyone's just faking their way through it. Yeah, I
mean I think I just saw it me once, maybe twice.
I haven't seen it in at least fifteen years. And

(06:31):
also it was kind of fun on his watch to like,
when I saw this movie for the first time, I
didn't know who Sam rock Well was. I didn't know
who Tim Curry was. Like, there were all these actors
that are in this movie that I just was like
when I was ten, I was just like, Lucy News awesome. Um,
there's a ton of people and a ton of people
made a ton of money, and at the end of

(06:51):
the day, don't we just want a bunch of random
people to have a lot of money. This movie also
looks so expensive. There was a whole scenes that could
be cut that are so it was. Yeah, it's like
really early odds decadence for no reason. Yeah, what's your
history with it? I had never seen any of this

(07:13):
Charlie's Angels content. I hadn't watched the show at all.
Never watched these movies, not this one nor Full Throttle.
I have seen both of them now. Um, except for
the last twenty minutes of Full Throttle, which I didn't
have time to finish before we started recording. With you
on your toes. You don't want to. You couldn't get
to the end of it. You're dying to not turned out.

(07:36):
As soon as we hit stop on this record, I
will return to it. But then as you have to run,
don't walk. I yeah, I just I don't know why
I didn't ever see these, but I think I was like, maybe,
like you know, two thousand, I was a freshman in
high school, so I was like, I'm too cool for

(07:58):
girl movies. I'm a guys out, you know, that wholest
kind of person, right, So but I gathered some information
and I realized a lot of it now is misinformation
from these movies. Like I thought I thought Bernie Mack
was Charlie, but he's just Bosley, but only in the

(08:18):
second movie, like I just had. I was all, I'm
all mixed up, But now I've said everything straight. Wait,
Bill Murray isn't in the second movie, correct, because apparently
he had um there was animosity between him and mc
gee and then also apparently between him. God, yeah, I

(08:40):
hate that sentence so much. That's brutal um. Oh, yeah,
we're you gonna say Lucy Lou was the other person
he had. I also remember hearing that and I didn't
I don't know. When I heard this, was like that's
a weird thing, but then didn't realize that I was
watching the movie. Oh it's probably from this movie, because
I was like, when would they have talked to each other?
I just didn't know. But yeah, I guess that beef.

(09:02):
That sucks because also I've never met Actually I met
Lucile once, very pleasant as were at a show, So
why would why would she be otherwise? But I was like,
what does she really mean? For? In my mind, I'm like,
who would ever be mad at her? Should I dive
into the recap? Yeah? Recap away? All right? So Charlie's

(09:24):
Angels two thousand, directed by Feminist Icon, tells the story.
Um okay, so there's an opening sequence so crazy that
I think we just need to dedicate like a full
hour to talk about that separately. I have a quick
I know this is a feminist podcast, but I'm just
going to be sprinkling in some First, he directed the

(09:50):
smash Mouth All Star music video He's Coming in Hot
Hey Now and then he then he directed documentaries for
both Corn and Sugar Ray because there's or his must
be told. And then he got Charlie's age. Wow. Interesting. Yeah,
they're like, this is the guy. His voice clearly is

(10:12):
mal teens love him. The opening sequence, they're on a
plane and LLL Cool jays there and we'll talk about
the whole thing a little later on, but we're introduced
to the Angels, this trio of crime fighting private investigators.
They are all women. The twist twist is there women

(10:36):
this time, and they all work for this guy named
Charlie who they've never met. They've only ever heard his voice,
which is a carryover from the show as well. I
believe the Angels are Natalie. That's Cameron Diaz. She's really
good at driving and she's also a genius on Jeopardy.

(10:58):
Very unclear. Their characters are perhaps not defined very well. No,
they're they're they're like they marry Sue, like scene by scene,
they're like, oh, no, she's also a scientist. I'm like, oh,
I saw her at a cop academy. They're like, whatever,
she's a scientist. Then we've got Alex that's Lucy Lou.

(11:20):
She is a horseback rider, but then they neither of
which come into play at any other point, and she's
dating Matt LeBlanc, who also plays an actor and who
has a very bad haircut that's wet all the time.
Another wet haired Yeah, just like guys who look like

(11:44):
they needed to be toweled off. And then Dylan Drew
Barrymore's character. She's kind of like a badass rocker chick.
And I guess also she's the slutty one because she
has sex with Chad a k A. Tom Green future
husband hard Pilled the swallow. Yes, and then maybe he's great.

(12:09):
I don't know. Oh sure, yeah, we don't know. Maybe
he's great. Then we also meet Bosley. That's Bill Murray's character,
and he is the liaison between Charlie and the Angels.
They get their next assignment, which is to find Eric Knox,
a tech bro who was kidnapped and whose voice recognition

(12:29):
software was stolen. His business partner, Vivian Wood, has hired
the Angels to find him, and as they're looking at
this surveillance footage of knox Is kidnapping, they spot this
like thin man in the reflection of a window. That's
his character's name the Thin Man, which is like another
well that's like another reference to the show. Yeah, yeah,

(12:52):
is it a shower a movie? I'm like, I'm pretending. So.
Charlie's Angels was a TV series on I forget which network,
some broadcast at work in the seventies into the early eighties.
So yes, I have not seen any of but I
think it lasted like four or five seasons. That was
like where Fara faws it became famous, right, that was sure, people,

(13:15):
we're too young and we're going to dive into our
engines to be like stupid idiots on the bittle cast
didn't watch a show from nine six? I think that's right.
I'm ready. I think it was. Yeah, it was like
far faucets. Yeah that was yeh would believe. Yeah. There's
also a lot of remix of Charlie's Angels. I just
typed in Charlie's Angels into IMDb, and there's like the

(13:37):
ones coming out into eighteen, the two thousand's one, nineteen
seventy six TV series, two eleven, TV series three, video game,
something called Charlie's Angels that came out in two seventeen.
I'm not sure who Charlie is I mean, this is

(13:58):
a popular property. Everyone once to adapt it, which I
think is like weirdly telling in its own way to
just like why are we still trying with this? There
was fascinating about women who are hot but also good
at spy stuff, also just subservient to a godlike boy.

(14:19):
There's two and six TV show Grief. The Thin Man
is a is a famous detective movie. Oh yes, uh yeah, yeah,
The Thin and the Thin Man. Um. Okay, So they
spot the thin Man in the reflection of a car
window and they so they're like, Okay, we've got to

(14:41):
figure out who this guy is. We have to find him.
And then they know of an enemy of Eric Knox,
this guy named Corwin. That's Tim Curry's character, who owns
a satellite company and who at one point tried to
buy Knox Enterprises, but Knox refused to sell. Did any
of you get like confused with the various villainous plots

(15:05):
that were like I kept I was trying really hard
to find I was like, this is like I didn't
like many like spies, like detective espionage type stories. I
think they're purposefully convoluted so that when I don't go
I just don't realize how many like plot holes there
are stuff like that. I was just I was getting

(15:27):
like insecure, and I was like, I'm going to get
there and they're going to know exactly what happened. I'm
not really sure what happened. Why are they at a
race track? Doesn't matter and they are racing. Full Throttle
is far more confusing. So if you think this one's bad, like,

(15:48):
just wait till you see Full Throttle and a complidence.
But I just was worried that I personally was stupid
and didn't understand. No, it's it's for sure overly complicated
and pretty nonsense cool. Okay. So um, the Angels crash
Corwin's party to try to get some intel, and Luke
Wilson is there and he and Natalie are flirting. Sure. Um,

(16:16):
And at the party they spot the Thin Man, who
is played by Crispin Glover and they all chase after him,
and he inadvertently leads them to Eric Knox, all tied
up and kidnapped, who Jamie, as you pointed out, is
played by Sam Rockwell and all star cast is what
we're sasses Sam Rockwell wild, So they rescue him, but

(16:42):
his voice recognition technology is still gone, and they realize
that Corwin wants this voice technology because it can turn
any cell phone into a homing device, So they have
to get it back to protect people's privacy. I mean,
isn't that what going through right now? I mean, yes,
they knew, they knew back into thousand that we should

(17:06):
have listened to McGee when we had the chick. So
then they plant a camera on Corwin's briefcase at the
race track, which is a scene that we need to
have so that they can survey the inside of his
like corporate headquarters. And then they figure out what they

(17:27):
need to do to infiltrate Corwin's security vault. Um, there's
these like two security director guys whose fingerprints and retinal
scans they need. So they go and gather that stuff
and they break into the vault and hack into Corwin's
main frame. They do have they hack and that's pretty hard,
you gotta handed to him. They hack, and also Melissa

(17:48):
McCarthy's there. Melissa McCarthy is there. Yeah, this is like
has to be a really early role for her, right,
She's great. She calls Lucy Lou a bitch in a
scene that spoiler alert does pass. The Betel test does pass. Yeah,
it is full of four hornymen flanking Lucy Luke, and

(18:09):
yet somehow it still a limited metric that's not perfect. Meanwhile,
Knox and Drew Barry Moore's character Dylan, are flirting, and
then Cameron Diaz is going on her date with Luke Wilson.
Vivian Wood, Knox's partner, seems kind of suspicious, and then

(18:33):
she is also seducing Bill Murray shortly because everyone has
to be seducing someone. If you're a woman in this movie,
you must be seductive. Yes, yeah, yeah, we'll talk all
about your body is your only weapon in most scenes.
And then Crispin Glovers the thin man who is Crispin Glovers?

(18:55):
Why should I know? Um played George McFly in Back
to the Future. That's probably his biggest role to date,
That's how I know him. He kills Corwin, Tim Curry's character,
and then other people are trying to kill the Angels,
and then Vivian drugs and kidnaps Bosley because surprise, Vivian

(19:18):
and Knox are the bad guys. Yes, yes, yep, and
then the Angels figure out that Knox was using them
to tap into Corwin's satellite technology so that Knox could
use his voice recognition software to track down Charlie, their boss,

(19:39):
because he thinks that Charlie killed his father, so sure
that's why he's after him. This is honestly, I'm like,
I'm totally gone at this point, have no idea. Okay, Now,
the Angels figure out where Bosley is being held and
they go after him to rescue him. So they all
arrive at this place is like fortress. Knox captures Dylan

(20:02):
and ties her up. Natalie rescues Bosley and then fights
with Vivian for a bit. Um. Alex tries to interfere
with Knoxes like phone trace to figure out where Charlie
is while she's also fighting Crispin Glover. And then finally
all these all these fights are happening exhausting, and then
Knox finally pinpoints Charlie's location and then like leaves in

(20:26):
a helicopter to go very far, not far, extremely conveniently
like a jet ski away. And then the Angels are
fighting off the bad guys and then they go to
stop Knox. They blow up his helicopter and then they
that's a great shot where the missile hits oh yeah,

(20:47):
Sam rockwell and explodes. He dies so he could he's
in pieces. He shred it intense. Then then they wash
up on the beach right in front of Charlie's house,
which is right there, which is at the edge of
the beach, not even deep in a forest, like, oh,
he's in hiding, all right, but he's not there and

(21:10):
they just missed him because you can only ever hear
his voice, are so horny before they go into the house,
like do you do you think he's gonna Their relationship
drives me nuts. They're all soaking wet and they're like,
do you think he's gonna? Uh? And that's pretty much

(21:30):
the end of the movie. They're drunk on the beach
after that, and then that's the end. It turns out
Charlie's actually watching them from afar and chooses to not
introduce himself extremely rude framed pictures of them in his house.
It's so weird, and that is the movie. Hey, Jamie,
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(21:55):
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(23:02):
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(24:06):
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which I think really brings this very smoothly back to
what we were discussing. It sure does the angels. Oh boy,
can't we start with I wanted to complement this movie
on exact like on on one thing that I thought

(24:26):
was and there's the moments where you're like, but I
I was kind of expecting the fight choreography in this
movie to be super lame and like the way that
we see female action heroes, especially like a little earlier on,
are really like they're only allowed to fight other women.
They don't really have weapons. They're pulling hair and kicking

(24:48):
each other. Literally, they're vagina pressing. What is the movie
where they've vagina pressed each other in the face? And you're, um,
I mean there are there are dozens of movies where
a woman wraps her slash vagina around usually a man's face,
but exactly it could be any gender. Uh, And then
like slam pussy slams them into the ground. That's what

(25:09):
I meant when vagina press, that was nasty. I'm sorry
that sounds like some merch we will need to make.
The vagina press. I thought it was two pussies pressed
against That's what I thought. I was like, what movie
is this? We'll make a list, but but and and
not in every example, but the fight choreography was way

(25:32):
better and cooler than I thought I was going to be.
There was like the whole first fight sequence where the
three of them are fighting that guy. You can tell
it's the actual actors that are doing the fight choreography.
They're really good at it. It seems like they're like
it was like exciting. I don't know. There was a
lot of the fight choreography that I thought was like
way better than I was expecting from this kind of movie.

(25:54):
It did seem like with their legs in the air
for a long time that they were being held up
by strings or something. For sure, sure there was there
was at one point where you can see Drew barrymore
Land and a harness and sort of be like she
like bounces down. I was like, a Jay didn't get
the shot. Well, this movie comes out a year after

(26:17):
The Matrix comes out. In this movie and desperately wants
to have fight scenes that look a lot like the
fight scenes in The Matrix they have. There's kind of
like there are elements of this movie that are so
campy silly that I'm like, the obvious harnesses I thought
were kind of fun because they could afford to not

(26:37):
I mean this. They had a ninety three million dollar
budget to make this movie, which in two thousand, who
even knows. It's like ridiculous. They were just blowing up
race cars because it was allowed. They're like again in
a scene that really has no bearing on the plot whatsoever. No, right, Okay,
I was just checking because I was like maybe every

(26:58):
time I would get confused, I like, probably because I
didn't understand the race car scene. Yeah, you know it
really is that scene. Does something happen in that scene?
I think the point was to plant a camera on
this guy so they could figure out the entryway to
the vault vaults. But there's no reason that needs to
happen as a race car track thing. I guess that's
just what that guy was doing that day. Had like

(27:20):
the tuft of Drew Barrymore's hair that he couldn't stop smelling.
Was that that's the man. They weren't looking for him.
They're looking for Tim Curry Crispin Glover. Honestly couldn't pick
him up out of a lineup. But he's like one
of the like minions, hair Minions, hair sniffing minions, a
new trope when he started when he jumped in the

(27:43):
race car because I guess he's also Tim Curry's hired
race car driver, right, and then Cameron Diaz went after him.
Drew Barry was more straight. It was like, you don't
have to chase him. He's in a circle. But it's like, yes,
why is this happening. He's not going anywhere, He's just
practicing for the big race, right. But then they do

(28:03):
go off the track into traffic a bridge that looks
like it's a bridge in San Francisco, but they're all
in l A. I don't know what bridge this would
be and why there's no traffic on it right. Well,
to your point, Jamie, another thing I really like about
this movie, especially as it pertains to like kind of

(28:24):
the action and the fighting and all that, is that
we get to see a woman participate in a chase
scene being the driver, and then she plays essentially a
game of chicken with this bad guy and she wins,
and he flipped her over her car unaffected. She does
win by basically magic, but she wins. Nonetheless. Yeah, I

(28:47):
was like, I guess let's just get out what we like,
because yeah, I want to talk about that there was
but it is, I mean, it is cool that it's
kind of like baked into the premise that they're all
like they're gonna win obviously, and that's like not always,
like you know, that's rare for you know, women to
get to be in action movies at all, much less

(29:07):
be the winners the main characters. I mean, it's right,
we can come on one maybe two hands, the action
franchises that have women as the protagonists that also like
performed super well at the box office, and like this
is this feels like a sort of like a like
weird to revisit step of sort of progress sometimes in

(29:30):
some ways. Um. But the other thing that I liked
because I was worried at the end where they're all
fighting in the climactic battle sequence where there's too many
fights to keep track of and I can't tell a
lot of like Crispin Glover and Sam Rockwell, I honestly
was having trouble at some point, like who's um but
Drew Barrymore Dylan. She gets kind of damseled for a

(29:54):
little bit, but then she frees herself and kills them
all with a chair, and so like even that they
like kind of dodged the damseling one of the heroes
at the end, so I thought that was cool too.
She also gets a nice cathartic moment where she was
wronged and lied to and used by Sam Rockwell sunglasses,

(30:16):
and then she gets a nice moment of being able
to beat the ship out of him before he explodes
and dies, and yeah, she really does get her revenge.
And then she's like, well, back to Tom Green, you know.
And then the character who is actually the most damseled
is Bosley, so that was a nice change of pace.

(30:39):
And then then yeah, and he doesn't. And it's like
it's nice because I feel like that's another like thing
that I don't even know how consciously they're doing it,
but I feel like it would have been very easy
to write that character of like I can't believe I'm
being saved by all lady. This is so emasculable. The
Bill Murray's like, thank you, just like you are clearly
more skilled than I am. Please help me. So I

(31:00):
was like, all right, that's you know, it's like there
are there are like kernels of good stuff going on here,
and it is fun to watch as fucking confusing and
misogynist as and like you know, like current problematic on
every single level. It's just there's just so there's so
much happening that you can't even when I don't know
what's going on, I can't look away, right. Yeah it

(31:22):
is fun. Yeah, it just looks it's fun. It's silly.
There's a lot of like a ton of explosions, lots
of lots of like joke e like sexual and nuendo
jokes where you know, Cameron Diaz is like, oh, I
signed that waiver so you can stick it in my
slot anytime, which you know, brings us to some of

(31:44):
the things that perhaps are not great about this. Okay,
we're getting into it. Well, is there anything else that
anyone thought was particularly well done? I liked the soundtracktndtrack
is fun because there it's a dustin these child songs

(32:04):
written for this movie Independent Woman Part one. But also
there is a song during the fight scene in the
alleyway with the thin man um the lyrics of which
are smack my bitch up. And I think that also
might be the name of the song. So maybe the
thin Man's the bitch. Maybe you know what, I didn't

(32:26):
think of that. We'll take it. Yeah, it's a fun song. Though,
it's a fun song Okay, So where do we dive in?
I don't know, maybe the beginning where Drew Barrymore's in
disguise is LL cool Jack. Yeah, that's let's start at
the beginning. How do we I definitely didn't remember that,

(32:48):
didn't see it coming and was like slack jaw. The
way these three characters are introduced, it's like gets progressively worse,
where it's like Cameron Diaz is you know, she's in
a bikini and like, all right, great, and then Lucy
Luke gets this comically long. She's like shaking her hair
out for take off her helmets, and the whips her

(33:12):
hair back and forth, and then you're like, where's Drew
Barrymore att? And then you're like, no, what. I actually
did remember this from when I first watched the movie,
and as is happening, I was like, oh damn, I
guess I was okay with it when I first when
I first saw this, and now I'm like, this is
really crazy. Yeah. Not only is the L cool j

(33:35):
a black man, but also an African man with like
decinta cloth and then even his parachute is matching his
African garb. Everything every inch of fabric on this man
was quote unquote African garb and I don't even think
he tried to do an accent, because why it's already

(33:55):
I don't think he did. Are already disguise. The disguises
are just I mean, there's not a good one in
the bunch that was That was alarming. I'm like what yeah, what, yes,
And that's not the last time that Drew Barrymore specifically
jeez later in brown brown face. Yes there, so yeah,

(34:19):
we'll get to that in a moment. Just to close
the conversation on the extremely bizarre L cool J mask
disguise scenario, The way that reveal happens is that like
Drew Barrymore as LL cool J has like grabbed this
guy and they've jumped out of a plane together because
he has a bomb strapped to him, this this bad guy,

(34:40):
and which he just shows He's like where the bomb? Yeah?
And then the bad guys like what plane is this?
Very luxurious couches in the first class. I was like,
I don't know a lot of first classes and that
I've never seen a plane like that. Next level, there's
also that racist flight tendant who's like, there's no way

(35:02):
you could be in first class, just like, thank god,
you know, I guess some progress here. They're trying to
show like, even though this is a white woman inside
of a black body, this person still deserves right. That
same flight attendant a few minutes earlier was like, it's
not the seats that have gotten smaller, it's that your

(35:22):
ass has gotten bigger. He's like making fun. He's like
fat shaming this woman. Who I guess he's complaining. Yeah,
it's like one of the first lines that's spoken in
the movie. Didn't he get blown up? He never comes back.
I was like, maybe he'll come back and he'll get
you know, blown up. But this bad guy who has
a bomb strapped to him, he's like, who are you people?

(35:43):
You crazy bastard? And then llo cool J takes out
the voice modifying device and then it's Drew Barrymore's voice
and she says, I think you mean crazy bitch woman
woman because he's a woman. She's not a bastard, she's
a bit. This is like the I mean this like

(36:05):
movie totally and we've talked about this on the show before,
but just like that very bizarre late nineties early two thousands,
like catchphrase based feminism that is based in nothing. It
stands for nothing, and it's so jarring to see now,
like actually, I'm a crazy bitch. And then she takes
off La cool J's face Space You're this is also

(36:29):
this is I used to one of my favorite movies,
troublingly used to be the Master of Disguise, Dana Carvey
Vehicle two thousand two, his last starring vehicle, and that
is like the rubber face masks of celebrities thing was
just like a very strong trend during this the first
Bush administration. It was just scary free open season. Then

(36:56):
a few scenes after this, we have the massa j
parlor scene where Lucy lou is massaging Tim Curry. Hate that,
don't like it. And then Drew and Cameron come in
and the way they are dressed and the music que

(37:17):
that happens when they show up is like just like
full blown Japanese culture appropriation. And there's also a song
that happens after the music que, the lyrics of which
are turning I think I'm turning Japanese, which not to
not to like ring a dang a little bell on anyone.

(37:38):
But Kirsten Dunced weirdly did a cover of that horrible
song like it was like Tenure, but it's still that
song has a weird, troubled legacy of being sung by
white people constantly that yeah, that's the and this is Jamie,
as you pointed out, not the only time that these

(38:00):
white women, Cameron and Drew Um dress in a very
appropriative garb. Because in a later scene, Lucy and Cameron
are like belly dancing in a scene that's appropriating Indian culture,
and then no one in the scene is Indian. And
then Drew Barrymore in brown face walks into the scene

(38:23):
picks up a bottle with the dude's fingerprints on it.
Why why it was her face actually brown or she
has brown makeup? It's only her. It's it's very busy
like and I think it is like also telling that
no one talked about it or cared when this movie
came out, that there's just like Drew Barrymore, very famous actor,

(38:45):
producer of the movie, in full on brown face for
a whole scene and just everyone's like, yep, I think
they probably have like a board of like what environments
can these girls look hot? And then they went backwards
from there, right, they were verse engineered it from there
because like, yeah, when they showed up to one of
the scientists house, who those guys they had access to

(39:09):
the vault or something, so they're like, we're now a
yodeling telegram and we'll say yodels to this guy to
get his eyeballs information. It did seem like, yeah, like
it was all a ploy to get them into different
like revealing outfits with no consideration given to like the
culture they were absolutely because it was like that's the

(39:31):
only way you can get this information. You can't like, yeah,
astronaut German Diaz is a jeopardy genius. Like they're smart
or at least that's how we don't see that the
ways that they're like getting information or advancing this story
and their mission is truly like d activating men by

(39:54):
their looks. Yes, it's appropriating other cultures in an extremely
racist way most of the time. And or it is seduction.
So the seduction thing. Yeah, And I mean even the
fact that like Lucy lu I think is like written
into that massage parlor scene in the first place is
very lazy and telling, like it's a movie written by

(40:15):
three white guys and it's super shows perfect, right. The
crazy parlors. Yeah, like, let's do the laziest thing we
can think of, and then it's not it's not good.
It's more on the seduction aspect of the you know,
attempts to get what they want. Where to begin, there's

(40:37):
a lot, Yes, it's all of them. And we have
talked about this a lot on the podcast, where on
one hand, if women can use their sexuality to get
things that they want, particularly from straight men, great because
for a long time, the way the world was set up,
that was pretty much one of the only tools women

(40:59):
had that they're just bosal to get results. On the
other hand, uh, this movie had the opportunity to show
women doing other things and using other tactics besides their
sexuality to get what they want, like their brains and
their fighting skills and things like that, their ability to
fly into space, super genius powers, and we see a

(41:21):
little bit of it throughout the movie. But I was
truly shocked by how often they use their sexuality to
get what they want, because it's which does seem like
it from what I know of it. That's also like
a staple of the Teacher Show that this movie just
elects to not update in any way. And possibly make worse. Yeah,

(41:42):
like that that whole It's bizarre because we are given
like these kind of cool facts about these very underwritten characters,
and then instead of ever finding out, like, for example,
why they work for Charlie, will qualifies them to work
for Charlie? How did they get huch with Charlie? Here's
Bill Murray fit into all of this? Like what exactly

(42:04):
are their job qualifications? And like, but they just derail
the plot of the movie regularly to just show a
series of dates that they're on, Like every twenty minutes
you just see all three of them on a date. Ye.
I was like, it's also like if they're working, they
shouldn't have time for that, right, I have time to
be going on a date or making dinner for their

(42:26):
man or whatever is Yeah, like making dinner for matt
LeBlanc between scenes, Like what they It's like, that's the
identity you chose? This is our secret identity is being
a bikini actor girlfriend to a actor actor and she
lives on set with him in a trailer and she's
sucking genius. So like, why I'm glad you brought all

(42:50):
this up because the movie for some reason sets aside
time for all three of the Angels to have a
romantic storyline. I think I know the s um Well.
It might interest you to know that when this movie
was originally pitched, apparently there were no romantic subplots, but
Drew Barrymore, one of the producers of the film, decided

(43:13):
that she wanted to include love interests for all three
of the angels um and that they were added so
that the women watching this movie could live vicariously through
these characters who were having it all. You underestimated us. Yeah,
I can only understand these kick ask women if they're

(43:33):
having boy problems. I'm having boy problems. So if they're
not having boy problems, who are they? That's such a
that's such a bummer. I mean, I would imagine Drew
feels differently these days. That's always such a bummer to
hear where you're like, it wasn't even make g who
insisted not like it's so easy to throw make under

(43:54):
the bus. Now, I'll play Devil's advocate for just a moment.
In in that when we see female protagonists in movies
with demanding jobs like the ones that the Angels have,
we often see like they're romantic and personal lives suffering
as a result. So the fact that they do have,
like I'm not saying I'm for it, but the fact

(44:17):
that we see them on screen, I guess having it all,
but like it bugged me. Yes, but I was also like, okay,
it's two thousand, Well that's I get what you're saying.
And also it is also nice to see that it's
not interfering with their work, because I don't other than
the like the same Rockwell relationship thing, but that they're

(44:38):
still able to have a personal life right and be
really good at their jobs at the same time. Yes,
the fact that it is three hetero romances that for
the most part don't have anything to do with the
main storyline except for the Sam Rockwell Drew Barrymore one. Yes,
it's perhaps not the best writing. It's really guys, it's

(44:58):
really bad writing. I was like, now, hold on, it
is very poorly. I wouldn't be as annoyed at the
constant derailing to go see Matt LeBlanc on yet another
day with his girlfriend he knows nothing about if we
knew anything about Lucy Lu's character, but I guess just

(45:20):
you don't know anything about And then it's so like
so lazy where it's like, yeah, technically we see them
do stuff, but it's like in montage where you're like, oh,
I guess Cameron Diaz knows how to clone people. Oh
I thought she was just on Jeopardy, But I guess
she knows how to clone people. And they're just oh, yeah,

(45:40):
she clones a hand or something, or like three D
printers of hand, three D prints a man's hand four
or three D printers were even invent right, she's again
ahead of the curve, and then it's just like cut
to a scene of her being like how do I
call Luke Wilson? You're like, come on, man, I was
so like, I so much time used to see, like

(46:04):
is she going to fund this waiter? Like yeah, their
choices and men are also like I mean Tom Green
special time. I mean again, maybe he's a nice person.
Maybe he's a great guy. I don't know. He won
an award for this movie, but it was for worst
person in a movie that's very funny. Well it was bad.

(46:24):
It was clearly like, oh, they're fucking so that's why
he's in this movie. They met on set. Yeah, Oh
I thought he was in the movie, Like as a favor,
Like she was like, we can't do this with my boyfriend.
And I thought it was like how Carson and Tara did,
Like how Carson Daly's and Josie and the Puss. Yeah, no,
it's they met on this set. Open then why was

(46:46):
that scene even there? He was so weird so long
because they were like, he's a comedian, let him impervise.
But it was like he just fell into the water.
He just and then and then when he comes back,
I was like, I was extremely unrape came back. I
was like, how dare this? And then it's implied like
they're gonna end up together. You're like, boat guys, you're
gonna end up with this guy? Okay? Like I found

(47:11):
the romantic supplets to be like very frustrating because there's
like the ingredients to so much cool stuff and it's
just constantly just distraction from Definitely it's hard enough to
understand what's going on. And then I was like, is
Luke Wilson involved? No, he's just taking up room. In
this take. He takes her to a Soul Train show,

(47:34):
where there's another weird racially charged scene where Cameron Diaz
is dancing to baby got back. The rest of the
crowd is predominantly black, and they're just like all staring
at her, being like, what the fuck is this white
girl doing? And then they, like for no reason at all,
start to like get on board with what never minding,

(47:57):
and then she like wins the crowd over, and it's like,
what are you trying to say with this? What's happened?
I get it. It's white women can in racism by
shaking their ass. Yes, that's correct, we can all be
brought together the enthusiasm of a of a blonde white woman.

(48:17):
There's I'm like, who insisted on that scene being there?
I just that was so unnecess They kind of gone
to dinner. Yeah, that that well, it is like all
the dates except for the Sam Rockwell dates. Nothing, there's
no Well, that's I guess a payoff of a scene
that's planted earlier where Cameron Diaz has a dream that

(48:37):
she's like dancing and then she wakes up and she okay,
So there's a minister reason to have Cameron Diaz without
pants at the beginning. Absolutely none of it is justified,
and it's all horribly written, but this is the movie's
justification why it's in But yeah, I mean I think
that speaks a lot to again, these these characters being

(48:59):
so under written because we the things we do know
about them are like usually told in montage like you mentioned,
and or they're just inconsistent and weird and don't pay
off in any meaningful way. I still don't have a
grasp on like what each of their specialty is. Like
I think Cameron Diaz seems to be the one who

(49:21):
like drives. If there's a driving thing, she's the driver flips,
but then she she flips, but then she also sometimes
like does some like tech photo enhancement stuff, and then
she's a computer. But Lucy lou also does a bunch
of that too, and then she also does some like
bomb wire. She's really good at wires. That's like, I

(49:42):
almost that almost made sense to me because I'm like, oh,
because space technology, because space, because she's engineering things could
be and then space and horses. Oh. Also back to
Lucy lew and Mala long relationship. Even Matt la Blanc
didn't want to know more information about her because when

(50:04):
she was like, look, I'm not who I say I am.
I'm not actually a bikini wax there and he's like, oh, bummer,
I thought I thought that was pretty hot. And then
and then and she's she's like, now I have to go.
And then there's no follow up questions. He's not like
where are you going? He's like, oh, I guess you're
going to Charlie. So it's also like he knew about
Charlie the whole time, but didn't know who he was.
Did you think Charlie was managing the I think so

(50:26):
she's like, important bikini wax business. I gotta go meet
up with Charlie. He's like, okay. He also thinks like
he also gets weirdly threatened at the beginning. She's like, Charlie,
that's a chip, right, that's a chip. And then she's
like I don't know, You're like what you're This is
not a good relationship for either of you. This is bad.
There there's just so much and like Lucy Lou like

(50:50):
she like neggs herself in the first like it's just
the way they're written is bananas, Like the the she
negs herself in the opening scene because she accidentally slips
up and says something smart in front of matt le
Blanc was like did you know that? And she was like,
it's crazy what you can learn on the internet, and
then he sounds like, I'm smarter have any information about

(51:10):
my backstory at all. And he's relieved by that reveal,
and he's like, okay, cool, kiss kiss Oh can I okay?
These are I'm just my notes are chaotic for this one.
The like the movie the scene where okay, so this
is a scene with Sam rock Ball and not Crispin Glover.

(51:31):
Maybe you know it's the it's the date that Dylan
goes on where they talk about her daddy issues that. Okay,
that makes sense, so that was um, so what happens
in this scene it's one of the date scenes, but
the twist is it has bearing on the plot. Um.
What happens is they're like on a date and then

(51:53):
he asks her, shockingly a little about herself and she says, well,
my mom died when I was young. I never met
my dad. And then he immediately was like, oh, so
that's probably why you work for an old man that
you've never seen, which is so aggressive, and she doesn't
doesn't react to it at all, and then he knocks
over a scrabble board and she's like, wow, this guy

(52:15):
is cool. Then she tries to leave and she's like,
I have to go. I have to go work for
my Like he just is like, oh, daddy issues. Awesome,
let's cook up. Like he confirms she has daddy issues
and then is like cool, clear for landing for Sam Rockwell,
but then she has to go and then he kind
of like baby, it's cold outsides her and it's like, wait,

(52:36):
what about the shaking bag? Shaking bag product placement? God
knows how much money they spent in that. I hope
that like there because he's like, oh, we got to
make the shaking bag, and then she's like, what if
we just did shake? But don't forget He suggests that
she is the one who does the baking because women

(52:59):
be bacon bacan. They had to get every everything in
in this. It was so I wonder if Shaken Big
had to pay more because they end up sucking as
a result of the product. This, this product will make
you fuck commercial. We've got to take a quick break,

(53:22):
but we'll be back for more discussion. Hi, Charlie. Speaking
of Charlie, just a little bit more about him. The
Angels relationship with Charlie. Like they've never met him, He's

(53:44):
always watching them, and yeah, it's like this weird, voyeuristic
god like like I'm going to control you. You're never
allowed to meet me. We can only communicate through this
other man who's a liaison between us, who will also
treat you weird, yes, who will treat you Because they're

(54:04):
all cuddling in that first on his shoulder like he's
like lady drawing on them, putting his hands on their
knees and stuff like that. Also not a good look
for Bill Murray, who already has um. I mean, just
look up his domestic abuse record. I don't know. I'm
not a fan. I also just think he should not
go to people's weddings and he's a fucking weirdo. But

(54:26):
that's just me. You weren't invited, don't go my favorite thing.
He's making it better disruptive, get out. I paid a
lot of money for each guest to be here, and
I'd be like, this is my day, and then dare
you I'm the Bill Murray of my wedding. But anyway,

(54:48):
these characters are written to be obsessed with Charlie, like
they're in what the dynamic of this relationship. It feels
like vaguely gas light e border lines. I don't know.
Something was very weird about this dynamic. But they're like,
we love you, Charlie, You're the best. Charlie's like you
don't even know him. That's one of the qualifications that

(55:10):
why they were chosen. They all have daddy issues. We
learn about Trus it's so the daddy issues, Like it's
so annoying and I like. But the thing that I
think makes me like that was the like weirdest or
felt the weirdest is like, yes, Charlie is like this old,
mysterious guy who's addicted to controlling young hot women. He

(55:32):
has framed photos of them in his home. Feeling very
safe about all of this. But the fact that they
don't question it at all, and they like just don't
like they don't they're just horny. They're just like a low,
simmering horny. For the predicament, it seems like of like
I don't know, which I know is a carryover from
the seventies, but it's just I don't know. Anytime they're like,

(55:55):
well that's what the show is, like, it's like, well,
it's an adaptation. You can do stuff. Well that show
was damaging, and uh, yeah, you can update stuff. Yeah,
the show was was I think often criticized for being
jiggle TV, which was basically just emphasizing the sex appeal

(56:17):
of the female leads, which is like a reason for
them to like run. It's like Baywatch is a later
version of it, which is not an issue that's corrected
in this movie at all. There's, like I mean, in
the in the the weird soul train scene, there's a
ton of slow mo Cameron Diaz, I made a list

(56:38):
of all of the extremely unnecessary, usually male gaze shots
in the beginning. We already talked about this little bit,
but Lucy Lou taking off her helmet and whipping her
hair around in slow motion, and then another completely random
and unnecessary shot a few moments later where she takes
off a fencing helmet in one of the flashbacks and

(57:01):
whips her hair around again, and then later she tells
Cameron Diaz to do it. She's like, whip your god
her hair, which is another time they interrupt the scene
to flirt. Is so annoying, like Wilson, get you out
your work. This one we already touched on as well,
But Cameron Diaz dancing around in her underwear in her

(57:22):
house and then opening up the door for a package
delivery in her underwear chaotic, stupid, Yeah, and then saying
you can feel free to stick things in my slot
and that's supposed to be, you know, a hilarious joke.
And then she runs into her own door, yes, and

(57:43):
is unaware of the where her house is in relation
to where she's standing. Yes, basical awareness goes all out
the door because of the cups man, which would make
her probably a bad spy fighter person. But she's really
so I don't know, flip do backflips and not just

(58:04):
the floor for a two point five seconds or whatever
it is and go into that vault. Why why can't
she walk into her house? But with these it's just
they try to get, especially Cameron Diaz, naked as much
as possible, as early as possible. Although there's that scene
where like Drew Barrymore is like needlessly naked as she's

(58:28):
like dangling from Yeah, and then she like walks into
that house with those little boys. I hate scenes like
that where they're like, oh, now the kids are horny
too interesting. You're like, no, I don't. I think it's
it's also like still people are like little boys seeing
adult women bodies is funny and not traumatic. They're like, oh,

(58:52):
that's like a hilarious boys would love that, as opposed
to like this is actually maybe going to affect them
they're older. Good grief. Here's a few more on my list.
J yeah, jiggle TV baby um. The shot of Lucy
lose Ass as she crawls Overdrew in the car to
fix the intercom at the drive through. Yeah, there's a

(59:14):
shot of Lucy lose Ass again in a leather skirt.
Sound effect on that is sick. She's like, skirt. It
was like, this isn't even like achieving the intended effect.
Which so that brings me to the list of all
the times where the Angels use seduction as a technique
to get what they want, which again I feel it's

(59:36):
every two seconds, far too often, and it's always like
immediately after they've just done something that you're like, oh
that was pretty cool, Like it was right after that
huge fight scene where you're like, wow, this is awesome,
and then it's a dating seduction montage right right right,
Because there's a one where Lucy Lou pretends to be
an efficiency expert. She's dressed as a dominatrixes with the

(01:00:00):
with a whip, and then she comes in and smacks
her whip around and it makes all the computer programmer
dudes all horny, and then she like plays kind of
a dits at the end of that scene where she's like,
can anyone like show me what you're talking about? And
then that leaves Drew and Cameron who are dressed as

(01:00:23):
men in this scene, which like that worked for me, okay,
but then they then that's when Cameron diaz Um you know,
gets shrubs completely, yeah, right, and you know, flips around
in the vault, which is also funny because they're like,
she needs to be invisible, and she puts on this
white suit, but you can still see her eyes and
her like the flesh on her face, and she eyes

(01:00:46):
the camera, looks directly in the camera the one part
of skin that is on her that you can see. Look,
what's that right in the lens of the camera, And
it's like, Hi, god, dude, dude, did it just keeps
going at the feast the whole purpose of what you
were doing. So whoever watched it gonna be like I
see floating eyes, I guess. And then the vault opened
by itself, we should probably investigate. So bizarre. And then

(01:01:11):
there's the scene where Drew Barrymore's character distracts the man
who's in Corwin's car while Lucy breaks into the trunk.
But like, but she's like in a fully unzipped race
car suit and she's like, she's like, oh my god,
I'm like, what what you went to like police academy

(01:01:33):
or something kind of. I don't know if she also
licked the steering wheel, which is so nasty because that's
like so many hand germs. He's probably not the only
driver of that car, probably not, didn't seem like a
clean man. It's just like steering wheel. I was like,
bye bye, so weird. Yeah, And then the costuming also

(01:01:56):
so like they are private investigator detective spot. I don't
even know what their role is exactly, but they're doing
a lot of like covert operations. They are like fighting
and flipping around a lot, and yet they're in outfits
most of the time where almost their entire chants exposed,
and it's like if you do one flip, your tips

(01:02:18):
are out there, slow out and they're even when they
were like scuba diving, where they were like swimming up
to whatever the island was where Sam Rockwell had Bosley
Like Cameron Diaz scuba gear was like open to her
mom's pupis Like it was so open, and I was like,
how did I keep you that? The name is inefficient?

(01:02:39):
Same thing when she's undercover as a waitress and every
other like every other person working there is wearing a
normal outfit and she's got again all the way like
down and and then she's like ha ha, like I'm
really blending in, but you're not. You look foolish. Yeah.
I mean, like, if you want to expose your skin,

(01:03:02):
embrace your sexuality, beautiful, we're all for that. But to
do that when you're also trying to like accomplish us
covert spy mission and you're fighting a bunch and your
boobs are going to get in the way doesn't track.
I just want to a movie where whatever woman is
in charge is like, oh, I'm about to fight. Let

(01:03:23):
me get my ponytail holder out, put my hair back,
getting out my face, because to take these heels off,
because that's not gonna make me run faster but my
clothes but not mine. But yeah, let me get fight mode,
as opposed to like, let me be the sexiest thing
ever and then get to it second hair whipping sequence

(01:03:43):
just exhausting. Was there was there more? Um, I think
we've already covered everything else in terms of the like
male Gaze seduction, there was There was one line that
Drew Barrymore has been she it's been Sam rockwell first betrays,
which is also a very funny scene to me because
I think that maybe at some point in the production

(01:04:05):
or writing process they realized that maybe the movie was
really confusing, because there's that whole shot where the camera
is circling Drew Barrymore and she's basically like explaining what
has happened for the past and she's like, so that
person wasn't who I thought it was, was it? And
Sam Rock was like no, and she's like, and I
guess that other person wasn't who I thought they were.
And he's like no, and she's like, and then I

(01:04:27):
would deduce that you are also not who I thought
you were and he's like no. Camera makes like three
full revolutions around her. But in that scene she is
on a quote unquote date with him, but then she
like makes this bizarre joke about She's like, well, I'm
a full service pert, like implying that anytime she's a spy,

(01:04:50):
she's also having sex with the people she's spying on.
It was a weird joke. Uh, can we talk about Vivian.
I have mixed feelings on Vivian. I, on one hand,
was kind of expecting Vivian to just kind of be
left there, to just kind of not do anything. I

(01:05:10):
like that she at least turned out to be relevant.
Sure a plot, but she is also I mean, the
seduction trope is alive, and while she has a Rufie's
bill murray um, which is very villainous. Yeah, yeah, I
don't know it was. I'm still I think I'm just
like still confused. But I don't know exactly what she wanted,

(01:05:31):
but I'm glad she turned out to be important. Yeah,
her motivations were not clear, but depending on the circumstances,
I usually appreciate a female villain. You know, her character
was not necessarily well developed, but but nor was anyone.
She wasn't singled out. She was Sam's business partner and

(01:05:56):
also love her or girlfriend or wife, kept being like mean,
kept being like my lady or my girl in references,
Vivian to find the relationship is the relationship, and then
he kissed her on the neck, but then she also
fully let him fux somebody else, so they're both and
we don't they chose not to define it for the movie,

(01:06:18):
and maybe it doesn't need a definition. Yeah, maybe that's
where just being normal. Do you think then maybe so
this is me kind of thinking through this in real time,
But do you think Drew Barrymore's character is sort of
like subtly or like inadvertently slut shamed because she does
have sex with a villain, and then that puts her
in a position where she's like, oops, I didn't notice

(01:06:40):
that he was the bad guy because I was too
busy like sucking. The villain's definitely slept shame her like you,
silly girl. I knew what happened, of course, And he's
just like, yeah, at least you were a good lay.
Now I'm going to kill your friends and your daddy.
And I still understand how Drew Barrymore didn't die when
he shot her in the head about whatever. I guess

(01:07:01):
I wasn't in the head. They went reversed and went
to Salomo. She fell backwards and then the bullet missed
her head hit the window behind her and then she
got naked, and she got naked for the children. Yes, okay,
I did look like a hit her in that, but um,
that's what we're supposed to think. But she, Yeah, she

(01:07:22):
like choreographed it so that she because she wanted them
to think that she was hit by the bullet complex. Yeah,
but she was orchestrating this whole thing. But and I
think that like kind of the villains definitely sledge Chamber.
But it seems like kind of like the story does too,
because they make her out to be like, oh, she's

(01:07:45):
like the more sexually open. I don't know how to
correctly phrase it, but like they make her out to
be silly for being sexually active, and then they punish
her in the story, like for having sex. The direct
consequence of her having sex is that she almost gets
shot in the head and all of her friends almost die.

(01:08:08):
She does like, well she is she does get to
redeem herself though she does. Yes, so yeah, I don't know,
I think the movie doesn't really know how uh it
feels about it. But then she she also it's implied
that she has sex with Tom Green at the beginning
of the movie. Yes, so why why do they talk?

(01:08:32):
Why they have a conversation that boat. I don't know.
I don't know, but I guess I like that. Yeah,
I suppose that she is framed as being as having
multiple sexual partners, and the movie I think punishes her
to some degree. But like, at least her friends are like,

(01:08:54):
you silly, look what you got us into or anything
like that. So they're all actively encouraging each other to
have as much sex as possible. Like, stop what you're doing,
keep flirting, stop them. You know, we're in the middle
of the mission right now, but go and try to
fuck Luke Wilson. And she's like, I'm nervous, she said,
And Lucy lives like fuck him now, like flip your hair, dick.

(01:09:19):
Oh what a strange movie this is. I do want
to bring to everyone's attention, um that Lucy Lou was
paid millions less than her white co stars were both movies. Um.
I don't know the exact numbers for the first movie,
but for the sequel, Full Throttle, Cameron Diaz was paid

(01:09:42):
twenty million dollars, Lucy Lou paid only four million. Yeah,
I didn't know it was that. Yes, Oh, that's so
sad and if you're putting performances next to performances, I mean,
it's terrible. Lucy Lose amazing. Yes, so there's some you know,

(01:10:05):
standard Hollywood racism for you. In addition to the very
weird ways in which she's like narrative handles um race,
also behind the scenes, it's also handled horribly. Oh Jesus Christ,
that I well, I guess I wanted to before we
before we crop up. I guess I just wanted to

(01:10:27):
take the tap of like is it necessary to? I mean,
I'm I'm in the grand sense, like cool, Elizabeth Banks
is directing a movie. It's got a diverse cast, Like
that's exciting, that's cool, But what story I want this again?

(01:10:48):
Is there a way? I guess it's just this seems
like one of the franchises, and I feel like that
like most reboots where they're like, I know that women
were done a wild dist service by this franchise multiple times,
but we're going to give it another shot. I can't
think of an example of that ever going particularly well.
And I don't know. I think it's just like it's

(01:11:10):
it's frustrating. I wonder if studios and Dubiz are afraid
people won't see female lead action movies if it's not
already a thing we are familiar with, like if it's
not already attached to a superhero franchise or a reboot
of something. I mean, some things have done really well,

(01:11:30):
but like the things that I'm thinking, like recently are
like Wonder Woman, Captain Marvel Um, like, these are things
that already female those busters. Yeah, exactly. So it's like
if it's a thing that's like it's its own thing,
like the Charlie's thron one that came out what was
it called again? That one? No? No, this is a

(01:11:51):
more recent one, yeah, where she's like fighting everybody and
she has like that lad of blond hairs Coolie yes,
which I watched and is also very confusing. But the
action action is fucking killer. It is great. But I
don't know if they did that well. I don't think
it did. And that's like Charlie's Theron and her peak,
you know, And so I feel like there are probably

(01:12:14):
people who are like, I mean, we could try, but
we wouldn't make money. Here's the yes, right, here's my
theory on all of this. And this is something a
trend that we've noticed on the podcast is that the
trajectory usually goes from there being no representation to an
attempt at representation, which is usually bad uh and not

(01:12:37):
nuanced at all, and then as years progress, better more
nuanced representation. I think the same thing applies to just
like stories overall, where like for the longest time, women
didn't get to be at the helm of action franchises,
and then they did get to be there, and Kenny
Valley like this movie yeah, or like tomb Raider, which

(01:13:00):
we talked about and when, which is like the same
era sexualized woman the movie um, and then right uh,
and then down the road we are getting Slash, we'll
probably get more nuanced like original action franchises starring women.

(01:13:20):
So I think we're still in the stage of like
we're not used to blonde women are allowed to direct.
Now when I've taken away from recent years is now
it's like we can have several blonde directors working at
any given time as long as they were already famous
when they direct, and eventually brunettes then we'll have people

(01:13:40):
of color. And jeez, I hate I hate that that
probably tracks it's it is weird. I hope the movie
is good. I'm glad it exists. It does already though
it's it's like strikes me as feeling like a weird
Like a couple of years from now, people will be like, oh, yeah,
I guess that that was just like a little shove
in the right direction. But I hope that there is

(01:14:04):
a you know, I feel like it just like is
going to take one of those out of nowhere breakout
movies that is like, oh, you can tell an original
story starring a diverse cast of women. That isn't like
It's like movies that are rebooted like this feel so
genetically engineered to do well that they kind of just
even when the people in front and in back of

(01:14:26):
the camera are very talented, it just feels like it
feels like a science experiment. It does, But I think
we need a few of those that are going to
be box office hits to show Mr. Hollywood that, yes,
people will Mr Charlie, Charlie himself, can we make a
movie like I don't know, how did the reboot to

(01:14:50):
show that like women female lead action franchises can be
box office successes, that women can direct those and still
be box office successes. So we're still in this stage
of like we on the battel cast or like yes,
we're you know, let's move on. But I think the
general movie gong population isn't quite I know. I I

(01:15:13):
mean even the fact that we that it's like we
have to explain like this math problem about like when
are we going to have a really good movie is like, well,
it doesn't seem likely we'll have a very good movie
for at least ten years because men aren't ready, and
they're like, I mean, yeah, I I don't know. It
is I feel weirdly like weary of it. But I

(01:15:36):
also yeah, but also just for the sake of a
good movie, I want to see someday, I hope it
does well. Same and I think it'll be far more
feminist than what you would think would be more of
a feminist text in this two thousand Charlie's Angels. It
is still quite regressive, as we have pointed out for

(01:15:57):
many reasons, but there are some like moments of like
two thousand's feminism black and catchphrases written the movie, such
as there's way it kind of I guess please never
send a man to do a woman's job. Vivian Wood
says that yeah, you're like whoa. There's a moment at
the beginning where Drew Barrymore is like, well, if he

(01:16:19):
is threatened by a strong woman, then you shouldn't be
with him, and then they talk for another five minutes
about like but how could I be with him? How
can I make this week? There's Those were the two
that I had, plus um Lucy Lou talking to Tim
Curry being like, my hands aren't going anywhere near your staff.
And then she also keeps rejecting this man at Corwin's party,

(01:16:42):
being like no, no, no, and it's like we're supposed
to be like whoa feminist dich And then you have
one of those weird flippy moments where Vivian when she's
heading on Bill Murray, whose character I other than the
weird like my girls they're like vibe you get at
the top where you're just like but his character was

(01:17:02):
generally like pretty chilly like it was in fact I
would call him mostly a dufus yeah, like he was
more like he wasn't like a lecherous character. But then
when Vivian comes in, she's like she kind of comes
in like fuck consent, like she just like call like
and then he's like, I don't know about this. We're coworkers,
and she's like fucky and you're like, whoa that. He

(01:17:24):
also doesn't tell her to leave. He starts a fire
and pours wine. It's like, we shouldn't be doing this,
but do you want wine by the fire? Yeah? That's
like so much like so much of this era of movies.
It's constantly it's just like the way people interact is
so uncanny Valley and not. I mean it's a movie,
but it's also like there's no criticism put on the

(01:17:46):
guys that are like constantly aw going Charlie's Angels because
they're framed and their characters are written so that it
seems like that's what they want, like they want to
be a stared at because and there's and and then
also that like thing that the worst kind of guy
will bring up of like assuming that a woman's sexuality
is some sort of plot against them. This movie plays

(01:18:08):
to those stereotypes hard, like, well, if she seems attracted
to you, she's gonna kill you, like you steal your money. Yeah.
Well yeah, this is all to say that I think
this reboot of Charlie's Angels it's coming out just based

(01:18:31):
on the more diverse cast alone, I think will hopefully
be a more like inclusive, intersectional text than what we've
seen so far. Yeah, it seems like it will be.
It seems like that's like a priority, which is great. Yes,
because I think a lot of people will see it.

(01:18:52):
I think it'll you know do My guess is that
it will do fairly well at the box office. Here's
hoping we'll I'll go, I'll see it twice. Um. But yeah,
those were all my thoughts. Does anyone have any other
final thoughts about the movie? Oh? Did you know they
were in a band, the Angels during the credits? Oh yes,

(01:19:15):
they were all playing in a band together, and we
don't know why. They just were dressed like green Day
maybe and oh yeah there what song? Honestly shut it
off this second the movie, and that I didn't know
what happened during the credit. Yeah, I got some some
Josie and the Pussycats vibe, some produ typical because that

(01:19:36):
was after right, Yeah, that was well, but the I
mean the comic book who knows what came first will
never find out. Oh yeah, yeah they're in a band,
so good for them for that. The women in rock
and roll, we need to see more of it. And
then finally, yes, does this movie pass the backdult test?

(01:19:57):
It does. I forgot to pay his close of atten
is I should have because we've been on a break.
I forgot how to do my job to feminism. It's hard.
It's been out here being very toxic for the last one.
I mean, women definitely talk to each other a lot.
I got, I got a few different. I mean there's
a lot of two to three line exchanges between the

(01:20:19):
three angels, and usually it will divert pretty quickly. There's
not full scenes. My favorite one is the scene between
Melissa McCarthy and Lucy Liu. Yes, Melissa McCarthy's in this movie. Yes,
she's done a huge disservice because it's two thousand and
she is playing the only female employee at the place
where Lucy Lee is pretending to be a dominatrix for

(01:20:41):
reasons I couldn't tell you. Um and she, you know,
Lucy Lee walks in and Melissa McCarthy gets a name.
Her name is Doris right. She's like, yeah, I have that,
you know. It's like I I have the one female
coworker name. And she's like, hi, I'm Doris, I'm so
excited that you're here, and Lucy Lee's like fuck wrote
out like I'm not quoting it, but I'm only interested

(01:21:04):
talking to the men, right and then and then Melissa
McCarthy's left in the dust and she like calls after
like you bitch, and the whole exchange passes because Lucy
Lose like I heard that, and she likes it. She
liked that she called her a bit. She's like, I
was planning, she was being dominatrix. It was just being domed.

(01:21:26):
So it does pass, not as much as it should,
but it does pass. Also, a lot of the conversations
are them talking about men, but as it relates to
like their job and the mission, so like it's not
men in the romantic context, it's it just happens to
be about men, but they're actually talking about the mission,

(01:21:46):
so I don't know, except when they're talking about dating
for ton of which does happen a lot. But there
are times, yeah, where it's like they're technically they're talking
about work, but their work always pertains to the men. Men, which,
by the way, the men in this movie are either
villains or Bosley, who is a du fust and doesn't
seem to be very competent at really anything, except for

(01:22:08):
chewing some object into the shape of a gun. It
was like or crystal or that. It was very confused. Okay,
I was like, as long as that was confusing to everybody,
just ye, just a gun out of a rock or something,
and then never used it. It never came back. Okay.

(01:22:30):
The only other man is off screen. We never see
him wheel your voice except for the back of his
head at the end. So yeah, I guess the men
are generally the enemies in this film, to the point
that we can do what we do to women two men. True, Yeah,
that's true. Yes to the Bechtel test. But the nipple scale,

(01:22:53):
this is actually kind of challenged. I know. So zero
to five nipples is our scale. We rate it based
on its representation of women. So taking into account everything
that we've discussed, including the bizarre and upsetting and offensive
ways in which this movie handles things like race and

(01:23:15):
you know, cultural appropriation um, the excessive use of male
gaze cinematography, the underwritten female characters, the far too much
emphasis on the romantic relationships. Also, just in terms of
the three main characters, there's just absolutely no diversity in

(01:23:35):
terms of body shape and size. They are all extremely thin,
conventionally attractive women, and uh, you know, it would be
nice to see more inclusion in terms of body size
and shape by diversity, and especially the early two thousands
is such a particularly brutal time for policing women's bodies

(01:23:58):
in this way. Um, which just makes it all the
more frustrating that this movie didn't do anything to support that.
For sure, I would say this only it's like one
and a half nipples, like great that it is like
a female driven action franchise. It was this box office hit,

(01:24:20):
three million budget and a two hundred sixty three million
box It was very successful. Okay, so people saw it.
And while it is not necessarily an inclusive and progressive
feminist text, it is I know, I know, hear me out.
I suppose it was a stepping stone for stuff to

(01:24:43):
come later. So I'm gonna give it one and a
half nipples, and uh, I'll give one half to each
of my gals, Lucy. Actually no, I'm going to give
all one and a half to Lucy Luke, who was
drastically underpaid. I had no idea that much. That's absurd. Yeah, yeah,
I'm gonna go one. I think it's like, it's a

(01:25:06):
fun movie, but I wouldn't never recommend it to anyone,
not even as really a hate watch. It is like
very of its time. I respect that it, you know,
just a female lead project doing well at the box office,
even if it was written, directed, and everything else besides
two female producers has everything to do with men, male

(01:25:29):
gaze and horny girls. Um, I love horny girls, but
not when they're written by men. I just don't. So yeah,
I don't know, and and for all for all reasons
you're describing, I gna give it one fun romp hate
Bill Murray and you know mcg I checked it. I
checked in Hill McGee, like I texted him, but I

(01:25:51):
checked in to see what he's up to. And he
just produced Tall Girl on Netflix. So still into female
lead things, right, I'm just like, maybe I would hope
that the men who are responsible for writing and directing
this movie have since tried to move on, and it
seems like that is sort of the case. I want
to give people room for growth. Mcg is now producing

(01:26:13):
Tall Girl. Haven't seen it. I'm tall I'm interested. John
August wrote the Aladdin reboot that came out this year,
and I think he tried to write a song about
women in it, right, he was like, I should have
a job like that was Jasmin has given some political
aspirations in that movie and a female friend. Okay, so

(01:26:35):
so you know everyone's were all. But it gets one nipple, obviously,
and it goes to Lucy Liu. I guess I'd say
I'm gonna give it a whole too. Sure, two nipples
because they tried, you know, they worked with the tools
they were given in the year two thousand. They didn't
know no better. And also it was really cool seeing

(01:27:01):
women kick ass. I did think the action scenes were
really fun. I did have fun watching the movie. There
are a lot of points where I was eye rolling
because I was like, oh god, this is nuts. But
also when it came out, I don't think I felt
that way like any of us did. We just didn't
know better. I like, harness action is what I've learned.
I really like it cool. But yeah, I think it

(01:27:22):
is a nudge in the right direction, and that hopefully
there were a bunch of girls who saw that when
they were young and we're like, cool, maybe I could
be an astronaut who rides horses and disarms bombs and
also dates. It does kind of at all. It does
sound like asking a little girl like what do you
want to be when you grow like I want to
be an astronaut but also a horseback rider and also this,

(01:27:44):
and they're like, well, we'll tell you it, got you,
got it? Oh, So thank you so much for being here.
Where can people find you online? And what would you
like to plug up? While my Instagram and my Twitter
handles are at the Sheer Truth th Sheer Truth, and

(01:28:06):
I have a podcast called best Friends with my best
friend Nicole Buyer, and we do live shows sometimes and
you can find that on our twitters as well. When
we said what we when we have them? And I
want a movie called The Weekend. It's on Amazon and
iTunes right now and on demand and it's a fun
rom com that I'm pretty sure passes the Bechtel test.

(01:28:28):
I didn't check, but I'm pretty sure it does does.
And yeah, that's it. Awesome, Thanks agin, thank you, thank you.
You can follow us at Bechtel Cast on all the platforms.
Sign up for our Patreon ak, Matreon, Patreon, dot com,
slash baytel cast to bonus episodes a month. You love

(01:28:51):
to hear it, you do, admit it, and then you
can get merchant public dot com, slash backtel Cast nailed
it one month the way. Still remember the end of
the podcast. Bye Charlie, Bye Charlie, Bye Charlie.