Confessions of a Teenage Drama Queen with Sequoia Holmes

Teenage drama queens Caitlin, Jamie, and special guest Sequoia Holmes head to a Sidarthur concert and chat about Confessions of a Teenage Drama Queen. 

(This episode contains spoilers)

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the Bechdel Cast.

Speaker 2 (00:02):
The questions asked if movies have women and them, are
all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands or do they
have individualism? It's the patriarchy, z ephibast start changing it
with the Bechdel Cast.

Speaker 3 (00:16):
Hate Jamie, Hey, Caitlin, did I ever tell you about
how my dad actually died in a graphic motorcycle accident
where his body was strewn all over New York City?
Ever heard of it?

Speaker 4 (00:32):
What? Oh my gosh. Now I'm actually sorry that my
mom was being a huge bitch to you a second ago.
I wasn't before, but now I am.

Speaker 3 (00:44):
No, I understand, but just so you know that my
dad definitely died in that exact way.

Speaker 4 (00:50):
Totally. Wow, this movie is kind of like Mean Girls,
isn't it?

Speaker 3 (00:55):
At least the first act? Yeah, because I had not Well,
we'll get into this, but I was.

Speaker 4 (00:59):
Like, what, it's a warm up. I think it is
a warm up, yeah for me and girls. Anyways, Welcome
to the Bechdel Cast. My name is Jamie Loftus.

Speaker 3 (01:07):
My name is Kitlyn Drante or is it Ooh wow,
it's Mary. They're a liar, Mary Durante. This is our show.
Where we analyze movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using
the Bechdel test as simply a jumping off point to

(01:27):
initiate larger conversations. But Jamie tell us tell me, Okay,
Caitlin aka Mary Mary, and anyone else what the Bechdel
test is?

Speaker 4 (01:39):
Please yes, well. It is a media metric invented by
queer cartoonist Alison Bechdel. Sometimes it's called the Bechdel Wallace Test.
Originally made as a bit for Alison Bechdel's famous comic
strip Likes to Watch Out four in the eighties, but
it has since become a popular media metric. Lots of
different versions of here's the one that we talk about.

(02:01):
Towards the end of every episode, we require that there
be two characters of a marginalized gender with names who
talk to each other about something other than a man
for more than two lines of dialogue, preferably a meaningful exchange.
And spoiler alert. Because it's such a small part of
the show, we're not going to have much of an
issue on this show. There's not going to be a

(02:23):
lot of teasing things apart not for this movie. This
movie is about girls lying to each other. About kind
of whatever and that passes, and that's beautiful, and we
celebrate that this is a movie about women's wrongs. Yes,
because we are covering Confessions of a Teenage Drama Queen,

(02:44):
a two thousand and three movie starring Lindsay Lohan.

Speaker 3 (02:47):
It's so true. And I also did not realize this
was a Disney movie. We've been covering so many live
action Disney movies recently.

Speaker 4 (02:55):
Yeah, and so I do feel the need to repeat,
you know, I will piss on Bob Iger's grave, etc. However,
this is the show, and the show is about formative
movies and whether we like it or not, Confessions of
a Teenage Drama Queen its impact was felt.

Speaker 3 (03:12):
Sure, let's get our guests in the mix. I'm very excited,
so excited to have hosts of the podcast Black People
Love Paramore. It's Sequoya Holmes. Hello, Hello, and welcome.

Speaker 1 (03:26):
I'm so excited to be here talking about this movie
with you.

Speaker 4 (03:29):
Oh my god.

Speaker 3 (03:30):
Yes, tell us all about your relationship with this movie.

Speaker 1 (03:35):
So I was a Disney Channel kid, and I would
like to specify that that is different from a Disney kid.
I was not a Disney kid. I was a Disney
Channel kid. This movie was in constant rotation on Disney
Channel at a point probably around the year came out,
maybe the next year. They had the promos everywhere. I

(03:56):
could say certain lines from the movie word by word
because the promos were so seared in my brain, although
I had not seen it in about fifteen years, So yes,
I watched it a lot as a kid.

Speaker 3 (04:06):
Nice Jamie, how about you?

Speaker 4 (04:08):
Similar deal? I think I saw this movie in theaters
when it came out. I feel like I was like
the target audience for this movie and also huge dcom fan.
We just covered Smart House, Oh, one of the al timers.

Speaker 1 (04:23):
O fantastic one.

Speaker 4 (04:25):
It's so good. And this movie does feel like a
high budget d com and that's a compliment, yes, where
there's a lot of like sound effects, a lot of boyings,
a lot of splats, and a lot of reinforcing the
family unit. And that is how you know you're watching
a d com. Yeah, boying, splat, mommy daddy, and that's

(04:49):
kind of how it goes. And I ate that shit up.
And I also loved Lindsay Lohan still do she just
had a baby.

Speaker 3 (04:56):
Oh she did, Oh my goodness, she.

Speaker 4 (04:59):
Did keep up, So congratulations to her. I found it
out from Jamie Lee Curtis's Instagram. Doesn't matter, but that
is who broke the news to me.

Speaker 1 (05:08):
Oh my god.

Speaker 3 (05:09):
Well, because she is Lindsay Lohan's mom more or less.

Speaker 4 (05:14):
Absolutely, she seems to still kind of feel that way,
and I thought that was really sweet.

Speaker 3 (05:19):
And at one point she was Lindsay Lohan. That's a connection.
You don't forget very.

Speaker 1 (05:23):
Much that that's true.

Speaker 4 (05:25):
They literally swapped. Yeah, so two thousand and three Lindsay Lohan.
I mean, I think we're kind of approaching because I
guess Mean Girls is peak Lindsay Lohan. But two thousand
and three we've got Freaky Friday and Confessions of a
Teenage Drama quhen she's firing up to reach her peak,
and I was so. I just remember loving this movie
and returning to it. Yeah, there were certain things I remembered.

(05:45):
I remembered the entire Sid Arthur song, which I wasn't expecting.
I remembered every lyric to the Girl was a much
Oh it's so good, so good. I didn't remember that
there were guys with blue hair dancing behind her. And
I still don't understand what happened.

Speaker 1 (06:06):
I don't get there.

Speaker 4 (06:07):
Was no answers were given, but I'm so excited to
talk about it. I think that some parts of it
hold up in an interesting ways, and other parts of
it are parts of the movie. Yeah, yeah, sure, Kaitlyn,
went's your history with this one?

Speaker 3 (06:20):
I had never seen it. I think this was targeted
toward a younger crowd than I was at the time
of this movie coming out, because I was a junior
in high school. I think so I was like, movies
about fifteen year olds, No thanks.

Speaker 4 (06:39):
Oh wow, grow Lola does need to grow up. She
has a lot to learn, but I love her.

Speaker 3 (06:45):
But yeah, I had never seen it. I also get
this movie confused with Confessions of a Shopaholic, and for
a while I kind of just thought they were the
same movie. I was like, oh, yeah, Confessions of a
teenage Drama Queen. That's the one with oh my gosh,
what's her name? Fisher?

Speaker 4 (07:01):
Yeah, and it's also like same naming convention, same hair color.
You know, one can't be blamed. I've never seen Concussion
of a Chopoholic.

Speaker 3 (07:11):
Me either, but I think we've gotten requests for it,
so I'm sure we'll cover it someday.

Speaker 4 (07:17):
I mean, maybe I remember reading those books because I
think that my mom let me read them because they
were pink question Mark and we were, you know, like
we were still figuring out how society works.

Speaker 3 (07:27):
Sure we still are.

Speaker 4 (07:28):
Yeah, she's like pink book. My daughter can read it.
And that's how I learned how people with Vagina's masturbate.
I didn't know. Oh, and then I read that book.
When I was like ten, I was like, you can
what That's wild interesting.

Speaker 3 (07:44):
I learned you can masturbate by masturbating.

Speaker 4 (07:47):
And likewise, I really needed instruction wholesome and that depressed
Compulsive Shopper really helped me out. And and this this
is an early I mean, we couldn't have known it
at the time, but this stars very early Megan Fox
role in kind of her peak mean girl era, which

(08:10):
I have a lot of thoughts on. I'm excited to
talk about it.

Speaker 1 (08:12):
Same. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (08:13):
The DDR scene, Oh say that you will about this movie.
The DDR scene. You can't take it from us.

Speaker 1 (08:19):
It's so good, so funny.

Speaker 3 (08:21):
Shall I get into the recap and we'll go from there.

Speaker 4 (08:25):
Let's do it, and so I feel free to jump
in whenever.

Speaker 3 (08:28):
H Okay, we're in New York City, we meet a
teenage drama queen Mary. That's Lindsay Lohan, although she wants
to be called Lola instead of Mary, so I will
refer to her as Lola. She is fantasizing about being

(08:49):
able to live in New York by herself, when in reality,
her mom, Karen played by Glenn Headley Headley Rip, she
is moving Mary and her two little sisters to a
suburb called Dellwood, New Jersey. And this is something that
Lola deeply resents.

Speaker 4 (09:10):
Can I just shout out really quickly. At the beginning,
the first thing that unsettled me physically watching this movie.

Speaker 3 (09:17):
Was, oh, my gosh, I know what you're gonna say,
the flip.

Speaker 4 (09:20):
Yes, okay, I was unsettled by the flip at the
beginning when that's wild that you knew, I was unsettled
by the flip. Uncanny Valley stuff really does not sit
well with me. It's at the beginning when Lindsay Lohan
is like mother Darling and we're like, okay, her British
accent hasn't improved since the Parent Trap no offense. Yeah,
she's you've had half a decade but whatever. Anyways, But

(09:42):
then she's like, I yay, I live in New York, ghippie.
And then she flips and it is like, it's the weirdest.
I love it.

Speaker 3 (09:50):
Okay, the thing that the guy does and singing in
the rain where he like runs up the wall and
then like flips backwards. She does that against a tree.

Speaker 1 (09:58):
How did I miss that? Oh my?

Speaker 3 (10:00):
She's like, because it's so noticeable.

Speaker 4 (10:03):
She does a full on like CGI stunt. It was alarming.

Speaker 3 (10:08):
It looks really weird.

Speaker 1 (10:10):
How odd you have to go back?

Speaker 4 (10:12):
It's really funny.

Speaker 1 (10:13):
I have to.

Speaker 4 (10:14):
And they've like piped in ad r over it to
try and distract. So it's just like Lindsay Lohan being
like yippie.

Speaker 1 (10:20):
Wooo oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yes, this is I
do remember this part. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (10:25):
I mean we prepped for this episode a couple of
days ago, and I've thought about it at least twice
a day since. Again, it's like the flip. How do
we not know at what point Lindsay Lohan's love interest
becomes relevant to the story, But we can't cut the flips.

Speaker 3 (10:39):
It's haunted. Okay. So Lola starts at a new school
where she meets Ella. Also the two main characters being
Lola and Ella. They sound too similar. That was a
screenwriting problem anyway. Ella is played by Ellison pill Baby.

Speaker 4 (10:59):
Allison pill fun.

Speaker 3 (11:02):
They both love this band called sid Arthur and it's
lead singer Stu Wolf, and they become friends immediately based
on that.

Speaker 4 (11:12):
That felt authentic to me at like the moment of like, yeah,
just seeing someone at school where we're like, oh my god,
one thing in common, I'm not alone in the whole world.

Speaker 3 (11:21):
It's nice, yeah, for sure. And then Lola meets Carla Santini.
That's Megan Fox and her band of mean girls who
think that New York City is gross and dangerous and
they're not impressed that Lola.

Speaker 4 (11:38):
Came from there, the Princesses of New Jersey. I loved
Carla's entrance is so funny. It is prompted by nothing.
She just comes in hot for no reason. She stops
in and she's like, Hi, I'm Carla Santini, and you're like,
who asked? Like I love it. They're just like Megan
Fox go and then she did yeah is.

Speaker 1 (12:00):
Luigi's oh playing while she yes entering? It was such
a big song that year. Yeah, Like it was all
over mean girls. I think mean girls come out in
two thousand and four? Am I wrong?

Speaker 4 (12:09):
Yeah, that's correct.

Speaker 1 (12:10):
Okay, Yeah, it was just Lindsay Lohan Codd.

Speaker 4 (12:13):
I guess it's so weird because it plays so many
times in this movie. It's like almost every time Carla's
in this scene, you're like wow.

Speaker 1 (12:20):
Every time it's like there's trouble. Uh oh Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (12:24):
I loved that song.

Speaker 3 (12:25):
That's a good one.

Speaker 4 (12:26):
It reminds me of like it's I don't know. There
are some songs to me though, I will forever associate with,
like school bus and that was a big time school
bus song.

Speaker 1 (12:35):
That's fair It feels like being driven to school summer
two thousand and three to me. Yeah, wow, it's nice.

Speaker 3 (12:41):
So then Ella introduces Lola to this boy, Sam, who
Lola thinks it's cute.

Speaker 4 (12:49):
For some reason, Like, right, I don't know anything about
the actor who plays Sam, but even he seems confused
as to why he's in the movie. Yeah, he's just
like hi.

Speaker 3 (13:00):
I'm in the scene now.

Speaker 4 (13:02):
I guess wild.

Speaker 3 (13:04):
So Lola thinks he's cute, but she doesn't want a
boyfriend right now because she's trying to focus on her
acting career.

Speaker 4 (13:11):
Fair enough, I love that for her.

Speaker 3 (13:12):
Yeah, absolutely, yes.

Speaker 4 (13:15):
Inspiring, but don't worry. She's gonna get one anyways. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
like whether she likes it or not. It's the Disney movie.
It's two thousand and three. You're getting a boyfriend.

Speaker 1 (13:25):
They're always lurking somewhere.

Speaker 3 (13:26):
Oh, and he is.

Speaker 4 (13:29):
It doesn't seem malicious like some teen movie boyfriends. But
there is just a feeling that he's just out of
frame for whenever the moment is right.

Speaker 1 (13:37):
That's fair. He doesn't feel malicious. But the other guy
in the movie, Oh, harder to say. We'll get there.

Speaker 3 (13:44):
I have many thoughts.

Speaker 4 (13:46):
What is going on with stew and her father. I'm like,
what are these men? Yeah, that's yeah, spoiler alert. She's
got a dad and he's a fucking mess. Not that
that's a spoiler for most dads. Really, Yeah, the truth
are people, but he's pretty bad.

Speaker 3 (14:05):
Yeah, okay, So Lola keeps hanging out with Ella. She
goes to Ella's house. Ella's mom doesn't like Lola or
Lola's mom because she thinks that they're weird, and she
doesn't like that Lola's mom is a single mother. She's
like very rich, white, conservative suburb type.

Speaker 1 (14:25):
What's funny is I feel like those moms are most
often married but still single moms, as in the dad
isn't doing anything anyways, so you're also a single mom,
so you should feel in camaraderie with Lola's mom anyways.
Totally yeah, you should be unionizing.

Speaker 4 (14:41):
Actually, totally right, they should be unionizing.

Speaker 3 (14:46):
But Lola's mom is a potter. She makes pottery, I
think for a living, and which.

Speaker 4 (14:51):
I suspect after I just rewatched The Princess Diaries recently,
and that movie, I do still feel like they didn't
make a single mistake in it. I'm pretty sure.

Speaker 1 (15:03):
That one holds up for sure.

Speaker 4 (15:04):
Yeah, and I think that there's tropes from the Princess
Diaries that were ripped off for years after that, including
cool artist mom. And I think that that's why we
have a potter mom a couple of years later here.

Speaker 3 (15:17):
Yes, So Lola is not happy that her family is
being insulted, and then she tells the story of how
her mom and dad met and fell in love and
it was so romantic, but then her dad died in
a motorcycle accident when she was very young.

Speaker 4 (15:37):
Also that she was splattered across two street. That was
a funny lot of detail.

Speaker 3 (15:45):
They say that they found him strewn across ninth Avenue
and tenth. The distance between ninth and tenth Avenue in
New York City is long, so it's like it did
his bond.

Speaker 4 (15:57):
Those are like the super long blocks.

Speaker 3 (15:58):
Yeah, it takes like five minutes to walk from one
to the next.

Speaker 4 (16:03):
And she knows that she's so shameless.

Speaker 3 (16:07):
And the tone with which she's telling this is extremely goofy.
I would say, it's an extremely goofy tone, and it's
almost as if she's making it up, but we don't
know that yet.

Speaker 4 (16:18):
Yeah, I kind of like, I've seen, you know, varying
opinions on how dated those imagination sequences, Like I thought
they're fun though.

Speaker 1 (16:27):
They're in on it, that's the thing for me. Yeah, Yeah,
it's dated, sure, but they're definitely in on the.

Speaker 4 (16:34):
Joke, right, And that's where all the goofy like beep
beeps and likes. Right, Okay, so if this isn't a lie,
it's been very poor taste.

Speaker 3 (16:46):
She is like making a meal out of the story
of the death of her father. Yeah, and Ella is like,
oh damn, I'm so sorry. I had no idea. Then
at school, Carla is talking about how she got the
lead in the upcoming school production of Pigmalion and how

(17:06):
she's envisioning a modern day retelling of the story set
in New York City where Eliza is a cashier or
something like that. But then Lola's disappointed because she was
hoping to audition for the role. But then she learns
that auditions haven't even happened yet and that Carla was
just being very arrogant. So Lola shows up to the

(17:29):
audition her teacher, Miss Bagoli, played by Carolcane.

Speaker 4 (17:35):
Oh my gosh, I feel like Carol Caine was even
better than I remembered, and I don't think I knew
who Carol Kane was the last time I saw this movie.

Speaker 1 (17:42):
Was so good a highlight, truly a highlight.

Speaker 4 (17:46):
And I thought that there would be I feel like
a trope that we see a lot with like goofy
teacher character is that like the main girl will give
her a makeover to like show how selfless she is,
Like it happens and clueless. It happens in a bunch
of different movies, but I like that it doesn't happen here,
and Miss Bogoli is just like allowed to be a

(18:08):
weirdo Carol Kane character the whole time, and we love
her and she just really cares about the drama club.
It felt true to life.

Speaker 3 (18:16):
Yes, yeah, yeah, and she's in charge of this production.
She describes the adaptation that they're doing. It's this like
modern day version that Carla had been describing. So it's
clear that Carla either like influenced or probably bullied Miss

(18:37):
Bogolie into doing this version of the story called Eliza Rocks.

Speaker 4 (18:45):
Kind of inspired of Megan Fox to think of that.

Speaker 1 (18:48):
There's somebody like l names like Carla, Ella, Lola, Eliza, Bogolie,
Miss Bogoli. Like, there's way too many l's are going on.

Speaker 3 (18:58):
This is a conspiracy Stu Sam that men.

Speaker 1 (19:04):
All have what's her dad's name?

Speaker 4 (19:07):
Oh god, do we even get to find out? I
don't know he might his name is Callum Callum step well.

Speaker 1 (19:14):
Step Lola step Yeah.

Speaker 3 (19:17):
Interesting. There's that scene where Lola is overhearing Carla being like,
here's what I think this version of Pygmalion should be, Like,
we don't live in England, it's not the nineteenth century.
Let's update it to the modern world and give this
like fresh, new, modern lens on it. Meanwhile, Lola is like, no,

(19:39):
the classics should stay classics. And I'm like kind of
on Megan Fox's side in that argument, not gonna lie,
but yeah, I just.

Speaker 4 (19:48):
Feel like, why rule it out? You know, let's let's
see what she wrote down before we rule it out.

Speaker 1 (19:54):
Well, naturally I can rule it out because Lola is
worldly of the world and Miss Santini is just a
little New Jersey girl. That's the whole is so.

Speaker 4 (20:04):
Wild because it's like positioned as classism, but it makes
it seem like rich girls from New York are protected
class It's really You're like, what is this rivalry? I'm
pretty sure you're both fucking loaded. Yeah, I don't know
Lindsay Lohan character therefore underdog exactly.

Speaker 3 (20:23):
So then Lola is like, wait, I'm at an audition,
but I don't have anything prepared. So I loved it.
She like knows what she's there for. And they're like, okay,
you sing a song, and she's like, but I didn't
prepare anything.

Speaker 1 (20:39):
I love it. I loved it.

Speaker 4 (20:42):
It's so good. And then cutting to pissed off Megan
foxexpression dot m P four, You're just like, yeah.

Speaker 1 (20:50):
Right, because Lindsay Lohan's vocals just obviously killed it, crushed
it naturally, So of course Megan.

Speaker 4 (20:56):
Changed the game.

Speaker 1 (20:57):
So changed the game.

Speaker 3 (20:59):
Yeah, because she has sung a song by her favorite band,
said Arthur. People are blown away that kid Sam is
in the back and he's like wow, and we're like
a star is born.

Speaker 4 (21:14):
Wow, a solid high school alto.

Speaker 1 (21:18):
Sam was just in the back, very high school musical coded.
There was so much about this movie that like had
other like reminded me of other movies, the two twins
in the beginning, reinding me a parent trap along with
her British accent, loom To's oh is very mean girls,
And there's some other things that I'll point out when
we get to them.

Speaker 4 (21:33):
Yeah, Sam looming in the back just reinforces my theory
that he's on the side of every scene, just because
I feel like Sam is the most studio notes part
of this movie, and so I feel like they're like,
we're just going to keep this kid on set and
whenever a Disney executive calls and says, where's the boy,
We'll just throw him in there and see what he does.

(21:55):
Poor kid. Just write him out of the movie, leave him.

Speaker 3 (21:57):
Alone, Okay, so then the cast of Eliza Rocks is announced,
Lola is nervous that Carla beat her out for the
leading role, and then there's this whole like obstacle course
where they're running through the hallway lawn forard the cast list,
and they discover that Lola has been cast as Eliza,

(22:21):
which she's very happy about, and then Carla's like, well,
my part, Missus Higgins, is actually more interesting, and that's
the part I actually wanted all along.

Speaker 1 (22:31):
Okay, girl it.

Speaker 4 (22:34):
I loved that. I was like, wow, that is extremely
drama club behavior where you're like, actually, it's Reno Sweeni's
best friend who really has the story, and you're like, yeah, totally,
surely that ever helps you sleep it go for that.

Speaker 3 (22:49):
I just saw Theater Camp, which I absolutely loved. It's
so funny. Everyone should go see it, although by the
time this episode comes out it might not be in
theaters anymore. Anyway, I loved it, but there are things
about this movie where I was like, wow, I get
it now because I've seen Theater Camp.

Speaker 1 (23:09):
That's very funny. Also, one of Carla Santini's little background
friends is the girl who played Casey on Life with
Derek which is also a Disney Channel Yes, a notorious,
clorious Disney Channel show that was canceled because the two
lead characters were supposed to be step siblings and they
had too much on screen chemistry and seemed sexual and

(23:31):
they actually were dating in real life. So I was
distracted by her a lot of the time too. I
was looking at I was like, this is the girl
that couldn't keep Life with Derek on air because.

Speaker 4 (23:40):
Like they were too horny to write play steps of.

Speaker 1 (23:43):
And they were actually fucking so wow.

Speaker 4 (23:47):
I feel like every time I hear the Life with
Derek saga, it's like a fever dream because you're like,
that is so scary and also just so Disney. It's like, no,
they have too much chemisty. The kids are going to
get the wrong idea.

Speaker 1 (24:02):
I didn't see it at all as a child. I
thoroughly did not see it. But other kids swear they
saw it. Now that we're adults, are like, no, I
always thought it was weird. No, you didn't.

Speaker 4 (24:09):
You were sure Disney executives sealing children's jobs because they're
a little too good at their job. That's Life with
Derek was. I think that was like the tail end
of my Disney Channel career. Fair to the point where
I was basically watching in secret and I don't remember

(24:29):
seeing it, and I was too old to be watching
it so fair.

Speaker 1 (24:32):
I might have been a little bit too. It was Canadian.
That was another thing about it was like a little like,
you know, Canadian television has a little weirdness to it.

Speaker 4 (24:40):
Did you watch Degrassy?

Speaker 1 (24:41):
I was huge, huge to Grassy.

Speaker 4 (24:43):
My cousin and I the first eBay purchase that I
ever made. We did it in secret on my aunt's
account because we bought a bootleg DVD of the abortion
episode of Degrassi.

Speaker 1 (24:56):
They yes, Yes, I watched it one time and I
was like, why did I never see this episode again?
They aired it one time.

Speaker 4 (25:05):
On the end, I would watch a three hour documentary
about why that wasn't I mean, I know why it
wasn't shown in the US, but I want emails.

Speaker 1 (25:15):
I really want to know. They showed so much wild
shit on de Grassy all of the time. I'm like,
oh my god, this is so far I don't understand.

Speaker 4 (25:22):
Okay, they showed the episode of de Grassi where Emma's like,
I go to the woods and have sex for different
colored bracelets and that was just something that writer's made up.

Speaker 1 (25:31):
Right and got goner rhea and she calls it a
social disease, and it's like a whole traumatizing thing. Like
if you're watching as a child, you're like, oh shit,
Like I can't fucking ever get gone ariha or something.
It's just a lot.

Speaker 4 (25:42):
Gagassi is a lot and this's voice is forever locked
into my head. You gave me a social disease.

Speaker 1 (25:48):
Like she really felt that with her whole heart.

Speaker 4 (25:52):
Wow, Oh I love that show anyway. What oh, because
Life with Derek Canada Confessions.

Speaker 1 (25:59):
Had a lot of leaves there.

Speaker 3 (26:01):
Yeah, it was beautiful to watch.

Speaker 4 (26:03):
But if you were born within a five year period, you.

Speaker 3 (26:08):
I missed all of that. Okay, thank you for the best. Okay.
So then Lola hear's the news that her favorite band,
Said Arthur broke up because the lead singer Stu Wolf
has left the band, and she's devastated. Then there's the

(26:28):
DDR scene where Lola challenges Carla to a DDR contest,
during which Carla tells Lola that she has insider info
that sid Arthur is playing one final farewell concert in
New York next month. Plus there's an after party, but
it's very exclusive and it's invite only, and Lola lies

(26:51):
and says that she and Ella already have tickets and
invitations to the party.

Speaker 1 (26:57):
Now, this scene is a maze amazing. Lola's outfit from
this scene. She has on like a backwards trucker hat,
Bary Britney Spears Circle two thousand and three and a
jersey and it is so Miley Cyrus in the twenty
three music video coded to Me Very I'm in the
club high Off Perp with my jays on, and I

(27:22):
loved it so much. I was thoroughly entertained.

Speaker 4 (27:24):
I read that this was so intense that Megan Fox
had a body double for the DDR scene really because she's, oh, yeah,
which I don't know. I mean, I guess she was
doing like kicks and stuff. I don't know. I just
love It's like I had a whole headcanon thing when
I was rewatching that scene because this movie is written
by Gail Parent who's like a legendary writer and but

(27:48):
was in her sixties when she wrote this, so I
feel like she probably just like asked her like granddaughter
or grandkid, like, hey, what's something like dynamic that kids do,
so this scene isn't boring and they're like, DDDR baby.

Speaker 3 (28:03):
I find it very funny. So there are a lot
of popular girl tropes present in the Carla character. But
then also she's a theater kid who's a DDR champion,
which is wow, extremely subversive for a popular.

Speaker 4 (28:25):
I remember being like, it's weird that she's really good
at DDR, and people are like, this is cool. I
don't remember that being the general narrative. I remember, like
my best friend from like first grade to forever, like
was really good at DDR. But being good at DDR
first of all did not mean you were cool. And
second of all, it did not mean you were a
good dancer. That's the most important part. It just meant

(28:46):
you could stomp really fast.

Speaker 1 (28:49):
Now, maybe it was cool because Carla Santini was into it,
and so maybe it was cool. And then New Jersey
suburb that they were from, because Carla could do it.

Speaker 4 (28:56):
I could see it. I can see it, low raise jeans,
DDR perfect, terrifying.

Speaker 1 (29:01):
It did look hard. I wouldn't have been able to
do it either, So I understand her having a body double.
That tells me Lindsay did not have a body double,
and she decided to do that on her.

Speaker 3 (29:09):
I'm gonna learn the choreography.

Speaker 1 (29:11):
Good on you, Good on you, Lindsay, couldn't be me,
but you got it.

Speaker 4 (29:15):
Good for her.

Speaker 3 (29:17):
Okay. So now Lola has to scramble to get tickets
to the concert, but her mom won't let her go.
So then Lola goes on a very culturally appropriative hunger
strike to talk about that, and then her dad, who
turns out to be alive. He is not dead and

(29:40):
smeared all over the streets of New York City at all.
He's alive. He offers to take Lola. So now Lola
is going to the concert, and Ella agrees to go
with her, and they're about to buy tickets, but oh no,
they're sold out and they have no idea how to
get an invitation to the after party.

Speaker 1 (30:02):
Right, Lola says that she cannot go with her dad,
and she doesn't explain why, and it's because she's told
Ella that her dad is dead and strewn across New
York City and so she's like, no, no, no, he
can't go, and so she somehow convinces her mom to
let her and Ella go alone or Ella's parents will

(30:22):
be in New York City for some reason to.

Speaker 3 (30:25):
Pick them up from the statation.

Speaker 1 (30:27):
Yeah, and so she's like, okay, whatever, you can go.
But little does Lola know her mom has actually had
her dad go into the city and tail that stocks them.

Speaker 4 (30:38):
Yes, I think this mom character is I mean, there's
not much to her, but I feel like maybe it's
just like the actor, but I feel like there's more
to this mom character than I thought, because it felt
like she's both very like she clearly loves Lola, but
is also so sick of her shit at all times.

(30:58):
There's no scene she's in with Lola, or she's not
completely exhausted when the scene starts, like they don't even
get into arguments because she just like doesn't have the
energy for it.

Speaker 1 (31:08):
From like speaking to my own mother about raising me
as a teenager, I liked to think I was a
delight Allegedly that's how a lot of mothers feel about
their teenage children, and I was nowhere near a dramatic
as Lola. My mom was so over by the time
I was about fifteen or sixteen. She was like, I
was so overparenting you, Like it wasn't even a joke.
I was so exhausting, So sure that checked.

Speaker 4 (31:30):
I liked it. Yeah, especially because she had like twins
who were young and then the most dramatic teenage shatter
of all time. It does seem exhausting. I liked the
performance because I feel like, usually the mother's either goofy
or like helicopter, but this, this one's just tired.

Speaker 1 (31:46):
It's realistic.

Speaker 4 (31:47):
She just wants to make pottery in New Jersey, you know.

Speaker 1 (31:50):
And I'm an only child, so the two twins, I'm
sure she was over it.

Speaker 3 (31:53):
Oh, I can't even imagine. Yeah, Okay, so they don't
have tickets, they don't have an invitation, but Lola is like,
don't worry, we'll go buy tickets from scalpers and we'll
figure out the rest from there. So they make arrangements
with Ella's parents to pick up the girls when they
get into the city, and then so they're all set

(32:15):
to go to the concert. Lola tries to pick out
an outfit. There's a toll kind of montage. She can't
figure out what to wear from her own clothes, so
she asks Sam to steal her Eliza costume so that
she can wear that, because we're like, I guess Sam
needs something to do. He hasn't been in the movie

(32:36):
for twenty five minutes, so that doesn't.

Speaker 4 (32:39):
To be why that's there. There's a scene where I
think this has already happened at this point, but where
like I had like a meltdown and I rewound and
I was like, no, rewound ough that maicsy sound so old.
I went back in the file I was watching because
at one point you just cut to all three of
them are hanging out, and you're like, when did he

(33:01):
become involved with this friend? Grip and I checked, and
we don't know. We don't off screen he became friends
with them because she has a crush on him. It's
implied that Ella knows him. It didn't seem like they
were friends.

Speaker 1 (33:14):
I'm confused.

Speaker 3 (33:15):
We don't know who they are to each other La Sam. Yeah,
I guess they're friends, but we never see them interacting,
so we don't know they're dynamic.

Speaker 1 (33:23):
No, I guess New Jersey small Town is what I'm
supposed to take.

Speaker 4 (33:26):
From it, Like, I guess, So it was so confused.
I like went back and watched the scene where she's like, oh,
that's Sam, and I guess I like misinterpreted it and
have my teen movie goggles on where I thought she
was saying that's Sam, like he's he would never talk
to us, but apparently she's like, that's Sam my good friend,
but we'll be with him. It's so hard to know.

Speaker 3 (33:52):
Okay, So Lola is getting her costume stolen for her. Meanwhile,
opening night for the play that I kept forgetting was
part of the movie. Opening night is in one week,
so that's coming up, and then the concert is that night.
So Lola and Ella go to the concert, but oops,

(34:16):
they've lost the cash to pay for the tickets from scalpers.
They try and fail to sneak in, and so Lola
is like, all right, don't worry. Well, we can still
go to the after party. So they walk sixty seven blocks,
not sure why they don't take the subway, especially because
it's pouring rain, but they walk to Soho.

Speaker 4 (34:38):
They lost their money, oh.

Speaker 1 (34:42):
All of it, Like damn, Nola didn't have her own wallet.

Speaker 3 (34:45):
I'm confused, Yeah, don't they have like five bucks for
who knows? So they get to Soho where the party is,
and Lola's dad is there like tailing them, keeping an
eye on them, and she's like, Dad, go away, and

(35:06):
Ella doesn't realize that this guy who is following them
is Lola's dad. She just thinks he's like a stalker and.

Speaker 1 (35:14):
She's panicked behind it. Mind you, she's freaking out that
this grown man with a dog is stalking them in
the rain, these two girls in these dresses. Yeah, I
too would be scared.

Speaker 4 (35:24):
Yeah, I remember maybe having this thought when I first started,
or the last time I saw it, where it's like
a feeling of internalized shame when you're watching a movie
and they're like, we can't give up now, and just
knowing in my heart I would have given up by now.

Speaker 1 (35:39):
Oh a long time ago.

Speaker 4 (35:41):
I would be back at the hotel. And also they're
staying at like the Ritz or what I'm like, I.

Speaker 3 (35:46):
Would be back at the hotel something like that.

Speaker 4 (35:48):
Yeah, let's get out of here.

Speaker 1 (35:50):
I could always just go home, not a problem. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (35:52):
I love going home.

Speaker 1 (35:54):
I love it. I love it so much. It's raining,
I'm going home.

Speaker 3 (35:57):
Yeah, I have to walk more than five minutes. I won't, No,
thank you, I'm going home. Yeah. So they finally reach
Stu Wolf's loft where the party is, and Stu comes outside.
He's played by who I forgot to write it down.

Speaker 4 (36:13):
He's played by Adam Garcia, who I don't know any
I think he's mostly at the other guy.

Speaker 3 (36:19):
Okay, So Stu comes outside. He is drunk and he's
making a scene, and Lola and Ella rush over. They
find him passed out in a pile of trash bags.
They take him to a diner, and then there's this
thing where he drunkenly throws a doughnut at a cop.

(36:41):
So they all get taken to a police station, and
then Lola's dad has to come and bail them out,
which is when Ella learns that Lola was lying about
her dad dying in that motorcycle accident. And Ella is
furious that she made up such a horrible lie, and
Lola's like, well, I wanted to seem more interesting, and

(37:03):
also your family was shaming my family, so screw you.
They get cleared to leave the police station and Stu
is like, you all shall come to my party. So
Lola and Ella and one of the cops goes to
the after party.

Speaker 4 (37:23):
I kind of forget that the cop tags along.

Speaker 3 (37:27):
And don't remember that, Yeah, she's there still in uniform.
One of the few people of color with a speaking
role in the entire movie. And so at the party,
Lola and Ella they chat, they make up their friends again,
and they see Carla there, who is visibly pissed that

(37:50):
they managed to get into this exclusive party with Stu
Wolf hanging out with Stewolf.

Speaker 4 (37:56):
Yeah yeah, Carla is Dia Ballacle. I forgot how she
handles the situation the next day, and a classic situation
where a problem could be resolved by having a digital camera,
which most teenage girls or many teenage girls did in
two thousand and three, just photo evidence. But what can

(38:19):
you do?

Speaker 1 (38:20):
For some reason, I remember a digital camera. They didn't
have one though, because they didn't have photo evidence.

Speaker 4 (38:24):
They did not know they didn't. I was like, I
guess that you would have to be in a certain
like class to be But it's like they're all rich.

Speaker 1 (38:32):
Maybe they left it in the bag with the money.

Speaker 4 (38:34):
It's true, Yeah, they left it. I love that a
critical thing happens, like where they lose all the money
mid montage. You don't see it coming, right.

Speaker 3 (38:42):
Yeah. So then at the party, Lola has like a
one on one chat with Stu and she realizes that
he's not the like poet and lyrical genius and deep
thinker that she thought he was. He's actually just a
drunk loser. So she and Ella leave. Cut to them

(39:06):
back at school and Carla is like, Lola, you didn't
go to that party. You're lying. Also you lied about
your dad, and also your name isn't even Lola, it's Mary.

Speaker 4 (39:20):
Carla is taking big swings twenty four to seven, and
she's hidden without well almost without fail. She's about to
take her biggest and most illogical swing and it almost
plays out for her, which is wild.

Speaker 3 (39:36):
Right because this scene happens in a classroom, and then
the following scene happens when they're rehearsing for Eliza Roxx
and Carla humiliates her in front of the whole cast
and miss Bagoli and.

Speaker 4 (39:53):
He laughs at her.

Speaker 3 (39:54):
Who on it? Yeah, She's just like what a loser
this Lola is? COO.

Speaker 4 (39:59):
I did kind of of laugh. I was like, you know,
miss bag is underpaid, she's allowed to laugh at her
students every once in a while.

Speaker 3 (40:07):
Miss So now everyone thinks that Lola is a big liar,
and she gets is, yeah, that is so true.

Speaker 4 (40:21):
Now that that justifies Carla. But she is a big lie.

Speaker 1 (40:25):
She's imaginative.

Speaker 3 (40:27):
But this is the one thing she didn't lie about.
But you know the cry Wolf, that whole thing.

Speaker 1 (40:34):
Whoa is that? His name is Wolf?

Speaker 3 (40:39):
Oh my gosh, Wow another conspiracy.

Speaker 4 (40:42):
If that was a coincidence and they I would be
kicking myself.

Speaker 3 (40:49):
So everyone at school is against Lola. She's very depressed.
She fakes being sick so that she can get out
of like doing the play and being friends with anyone.
But then Ella shows up and she gives her this
heartfelt speech about how Lola has inspired her and how
she can't give up, and so Lola gets up and

(41:12):
goes to the school. The play is about to start
with Carla playing the role of Eliza, but then Lola
shows up to reclaim her role, much to Carla's dismay.
Then the play goes well, and a star is indeed

(41:32):
born in Lola.

Speaker 4 (41:34):
Absolutely I love their unhinged adaptation. It looks good, it's fun,
it seems like it is all Lindsay Lohan narration with
some other kids in the background. I just love it.
I've never seen Pygmalion or My Fair Lady. I know

(41:55):
the story, I know the overarch. I just like I
feel like I've only seen like millennial coded adaptations of it,
including this montage She's all that, yeah, like stuff like
that where it's like you see clueless and then you're like, oh, Emma, right.

Speaker 1 (42:13):
We should.

Speaker 3 (42:14):
I bravely read Pygmalion in high school and then I
have seen the movie My Fair Lady. We should cover
it sometime on the show.

Speaker 4 (42:22):
We should. I'd be down to do that anyway.

Speaker 3 (42:25):
So the play happens, It goes well, and then there's
an after party at Carla's house where Stu Wolf shows
up to return things to Lola because she left her
iconic coke bottle cap necklace behind and he.

Speaker 4 (42:40):
Is colluding with Lola's father. Uh huh in showing up
where you're just like her father is such a disaster.

Speaker 1 (42:50):
What is going on here?

Speaker 3 (42:51):
Yeah? He has a famous dog or something or is
he a children's book author? I could not understand what
his job was.

Speaker 4 (42:59):
It's confusing that Stu Wolf recognizes the dog from a
cartoon when it is sort of just like, right, an
Encyclopedia picture of a dog, right, But I guess he
makes children's books about his dog.

Speaker 1 (43:14):
Yeah, weird. Anyway you spin it, I'm gonna be nice
and say the Stue Wolf is twenty five, and that's
being full certain that the man is forty hanging out
with high schoolers, colluding with the father, or not very
very odd bad.

Speaker 3 (43:33):
Bad, I would say bad, unbelievably weird, real bad.

Speaker 1 (43:38):
Yeah, didn't look good to me.

Speaker 3 (43:40):
The optics are horrible.

Speaker 1 (43:41):
And if I were the parent of one of those
extras at the party, feel like, Oh, I'm so sorry.
An adult man showed up at the party and y'all
were just chilt turning a.

Speaker 3 (43:53):
Necklace that eighteen girl left at.

Speaker 1 (43:56):
His house overnight. Oh confused, what's happening? Yeah, please explain
it slowly. I need you to explain it slowly before
I get mad. Explained it slowly.

Speaker 4 (44:04):
It's so like because there is a line between I
don't know. Like I wanted to see a Bright Eyes
concert when I was fourteen, and I didn't want my
friends to know that I wasn't allowed to go by
myself because they were like sixteen or seventeen, And so
my dad got a ticket and then stood in the
back incognito mode for the whole concert, and then waited

(44:29):
while I went to a diner with my friends, and
then I met up with him and went home. And
you're like, that's it's one of my my dad's the best.

Speaker 1 (44:36):
That is like very very exceptional. I love that story, right, And.

Speaker 4 (44:42):
Also just like my we were dad had a whole
Bright Eyes concert. Yeah, like and he was like on
the back wall with other parents who were almost definitely
doing the same thing. But it was like that was
like clutch parenting. But then there's a line where it's
like if Connor OBErs of Bright Eyes says, hey, fourteen
year old girl, let's go to a party.

Speaker 3 (45:03):
Your dad should intervene and say no, adult man, you're
not gonna hang out with a child.

Speaker 4 (45:09):
At a minimum, right, And then you're like, your child
will hate you for years, But it's what you have
to do. It's what you have to do. Is Lola's
dad is so invested in being mister cool dad that
he is actively endangering her so much in the space
of like forty eight hours.

Speaker 1 (45:27):
Several times there's a point where they're considering walking down
the alley or something to go see where Sue is.
He's like pass out in the trash can in the alley, yeah,
and Lola and Ella are considering walking down the alley,
and I'm like, where the hell is Lola's dad. Right now,
if I'm watching my child consider following a grown man

(45:48):
down an alley, I don't care if I'm supposed to
be incognito. You're not walking down the fucking alley right.
There were so many times I'm like, you're negligent. What
the hell is going on with you? Are you okay?

Speaker 3 (45:57):
Even the teen girls are concerned. They're like this seems dangerous.
And then Ella's like, I'm not going and Lola's like, yes,
we are.

Speaker 1 (46:05):
I was like, no, I'm not, and they.

Speaker 3 (46:07):
Say, oh, we're with an adult, referring to Stu Wolf
Sue Wolf.

Speaker 1 (46:13):
So what is happening.

Speaker 3 (46:14):
Yeah, we'll talk more about this in a bit, but yeah,
that does definitely all happen. Anyway. So Stu showing up
at the party and giving this necklace back shows to
everyone that Lola wasn't lying about meeting Stu, and so
now it's Carla's turn to be humiliated. But because Lola
is nice, she's a nice girl, she's not a mean girl.

(46:38):
She extends an olive branch to Carla, and then the
movie ends with Lola and Stu slow dancing at the party.
But then Stu turns into Sam and now Sam and
Lola are dancing, and she's like in voiceover saying, well,
now I have a boyfriend, because now I'm a star

(46:59):
and now I can make time for romance.

Speaker 4 (47:02):
The end, sure, the unbelievably confusing the fact that they
end on Sam.

Speaker 3 (47:09):
We're like, who is he?

Speaker 4 (47:11):
Yeah right, I.

Speaker 1 (47:12):
Couldn't remember his name? Was like, who am I looking
at it but don't know who that is.

Speaker 3 (47:15):
Let's take a quick break and we will come back
to discuss further.

Speaker 4 (47:30):
And we're back. Can we just start with Sam, Let's
get this out of the way, like just not a
necessary person.

Speaker 1 (47:38):
For the movie.

Speaker 4 (47:39):
And I was frustrated. I feel like I will This
is like so common in movies that are marketed at teenagers,
especially like teen girls and fems. It's just like unnecessary
boyfriend character. And it still happens. I don't think with
the same amount of frequency, but it definitely still happens.

(48:02):
And again, it's like we've talked about this on the
show a million times. If a relationship makes sense in
the story, if it's a part of their coming of age,
then like whatever, If the actors have chemistry, if we
know who the character is, whatever, There's movies where that
makes sense. But this movie is so about girls in
conflict or like trying to understand each other that it's

(48:25):
just like I've never seen I don't know, I think
this might be the most obvious one from this era
where it's like who is this guy to the point.

Speaker 3 (48:32):
Where it seems like all the scenes were already written,
and then someone was like, wait, we need a love
interest to her age and a classmate of hers because
the only other one we have right now is this
creepy adult musician man. So then they were just like, Okay,
there's a guy named Sam. We can stick him in
this scene. We can stick him in this scene, we

(48:52):
can stick him in the third scene, and that's that's
his character.

Speaker 4 (48:56):
He'll still the dress when it's like and when I
was thinking about it, I was like, ooh, I bet
in the first draft with this movie, Ella steals the
dress or like literally anyone makes so much sense? Yeah, totally,
because I really like the like sort of dual storylines
between like Lola and Ella's friendship and how they like
affect each other and also Lola and Carla's rivalry, Like

(49:22):
those are the sort of driving forces. Like you could
argue that if I mean, I guess like Lola will
be a drama queen no matter what. But it's like
it's when she meets Carla that like this becomes her
purpose in life is to show up this girl.

Speaker 1 (49:36):
Certainly, it's like Carla's effect on both Lola and Ella
is very felt and very funny too.

Speaker 3 (49:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (49:42):
Ella is so goody two shoes, like buy the book
until Carla says something that irritates her, And it happens
a couple of times throughout the film, and every time
she just turns into Lola, like for avere second, she's like, yeah,
we are going to be at that concert. Yeah, that's
it's idiot exactly, you know, debt, and it is so entertaining.

Speaker 4 (50:02):
Yeah, they're very broad characters, but it feels like grounded
enough in reality of like making a friend that just
brings something out in you that we're not comfortable enough
to do. Like I definitely had friends like that when
I was in high school, where I was generally pretty shy,
but around the right person, I would be loud, I
would be obnoxious because you just feel like, well this

(50:24):
person can pull it off, let me give it a shot.

Speaker 3 (50:27):
Yeah, they're like energy rubs off on you. They empower
you to like have more confidence that kind of thing,
which is like an interesting thing to examine, and that
is the focus of the movie. But it also begs
the question why is this weird romantic storyline between Lola
and Sam wedged in because it's like barely there to

(50:48):
begin with. I don't know. To me, it's more annoying
versus the romantic storyline between Lola and Stu Wolf is
like straight up troubling, scary.

Speaker 4 (51:00):
Do we want to go over there? Do we want
to go friendships? Where do we want to go?

Speaker 3 (51:04):
Let's just get the men out of the way and
my friend and then we'll go to the girlies my favorite.

Speaker 4 (51:10):
Yeah, the stewold stuff is just like straight up predatory,
like in a way that I'm like, oh, the movie
seems semi aware that Sam is pointless because he's just
thrown in there and random points. I don't think that
the movie is aware that Stu is an absolute creep
in the way that he very obviously is if you

(51:30):
think about it for one second.

Speaker 3 (51:32):
Yeah, the movie frames this is like, yeah, like they
can't really be together, but let's let Lola have this
like fantasy moment where she gets to dance with this
guy and hang out with him. She's like in his
bedroom wearing his clothes at one point, just like nasty stuff,

(51:56):
and the movie frames it is like, isn't this such
a fantasy that she gets to live out, which, like
a lot of teen girls would probably feel that way
because they they don't know that it's or you know,
especially in this era where this kind of shit was
so normalized, where it's like, yeah, that would be awesome

(52:16):
if I was like fifteen hanging out with a man
ten to fifteen years older than me. That was just
so normalized. But you know today we're like, yikes and
gross and illegal and predatory.

Speaker 4 (52:30):
Well that's the thing that is like this very misguided
choice was made in an attempt like calming off of
like a huge boy band era and craze to give
some sort of wish fulfillment to like mostly tweens, because it's.

Speaker 3 (52:45):
Like that's who's watching it.

Speaker 4 (52:46):
With movies like this, you subtract three years from the
intended audience like tweens that would love to meet their
idols from boy bands, girl bands whoever like their fans are.
And I think that there's a way to to give
that wish fulfillment in a really fun way that doesn't
go like creepy wattpad fan fiction, which is like the

(53:09):
way that this goes.

Speaker 1 (53:11):
I agreed. There's this actual dcom stuck in the suburbs
where there's like a pop star who's also older than them,
and it kind of gives that wish fulfilment without the
level of creepiness that we get in this film.

Speaker 4 (53:26):
That's true. Oh, we should cover that someday. I really
love that one.

Speaker 3 (53:30):
I think an easy fix is just to make stew
also a teenager, like that's not unheard of for there
to be like guys and boy bands who are like,
I don't know, sixteen, seventeen, seventeen, yeah, and then maybe
like age Lola up to just make them age appropriate
for each other and she can still like meet him
and see that he's like a mess or he's not

(53:52):
you know, this poetic genius that she thought, and that's
off putting to her. But even if that was the
case where he wasn't like an adult predator and they
were like age appropriate for each other, the way this
pans out is really weird because like she talks to
him at this party and realizes that he's not who
she thought. She's disappointed that, you know, he's not the

(54:15):
way he seems, and so she leaves like kind of
out of disgust. And I don't know if it's that
like his drunkenness is like the most off putting thing
to her. I don't really know, but she leaves and
she doesn't want to hang out with him anymore. But
then when he comes back to the party and he
has gotten sober, she's like, wow, now we can dance,

(54:36):
and it's like, well, what about I don't know, it
just like I wasn't quite sure what was happening.

Speaker 4 (54:42):
And this is maybe getting really into the weeds. This
is a little thing because it's like, ultimately Stu is
a creep no matter which way you spin it, because
it's like either he's their age and there's a romantic connection,
or he's not their age and it's clearly of friendship.
You just have to make a choice for a kids movie.
But I also I felt like the way that they
presented his addiction problems were super broad and fanficky feeling,

(55:06):
where like it was just very like you're a drunk
and like in making that scene, like with like two
things are true here with this Stu Wolf character specifically,
where it's like they both choose to make him this
like mismatched predatory character, and they also choose to talk
about what we later learned was a serious addiction problem
in a very like shamey way that they just could

(55:31):
have used a second draft on the way that that
character in general has handled because I think that there's
a way you can have the pop idol who's a
mess treated, but it just felt a little undercooked in
a way that didn't serve the target audience, I guess.

Speaker 3 (55:48):
Also Stu cites the reason that he decided to get sober.
He's like, I did it because Lola, you told me
I was a drunk loser and I didn't like that,
So you're the reason I got sober.

Speaker 4 (56:02):
And it's like it's like I fixed you wish fulfillment
too that and yeah, it's like, oh.

Speaker 3 (56:08):
I can't lose this wonderful person who I like, so
I have to get sober for them, which is similar
to like the way that when they reunite at Carla's party,
it's very much framed cinematically, is like the romantic interests
are reuniting, and like the music is swelling and it's
like he puts the necklace on her.

Speaker 4 (56:29):
But then it's more confusing when it changes to the
boring yet age appropriate level, Like that comes out of nowhere.
Men in general, I feel like, don't really have a
role in this.

Speaker 3 (56:39):
Don't you get them out of there?

Speaker 2 (56:41):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (56:41):
That tells me that the writers did know that that
was weird and they had to change it to Sam
at the end because they're like, true, Okay, we're gonna
she's a drama queen. Maybe she's imagining this right.

Speaker 4 (56:52):
It was so bizarre. Yeah, you're totally right. Like switching
him to the age appropriate person is sort of like
admission of like, but she obviously can't end up with
this guy. Yeah, and you're like, well, what if you
just wrote, first of all, this movie doesn't really need
a love interest, But if it's two thousand and three
and you need one, then just make the pop star

(57:12):
age appropriate question mark, make him Sam's age. Exactly why
do we need a Sam? We don't know. I think
that Sam's going to drag down her acting ambitions and
she should really think.

Speaker 1 (57:23):
Twice he put her dress under the hood of a car.
Do you know how angry I would be if you
put my dress under the greasy hood of a car.
What are you good for saying?

Speaker 4 (57:34):
He's so smug about it? I'm like, what do you
think you've done? That's so good?

Speaker 3 (57:42):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (57:43):
I don't like Sam No, I.

Speaker 3 (57:44):
Don't like samoo and I hate Stu. Yeah, all right,
shall we talk about the gals?

Speaker 4 (57:51):
Well, let's talk about Dad. Oh right, I think we
almost basically just covered that in the recap. But the Dad,
I don't mind that he's there, but I disagree with
every single choice he makes. I guess that's all I'll say.

Speaker 3 (58:05):
Yeah, sure that sounds cute dog though, good for him,
lovely dog dog. Okay, So aside from those unnecessary male characters,
what we have otherwise is, I mean, there were a few,
like you know, teen girly movie tropes happening. We've got
a lot of like clothes trying on montages. We do

(58:29):
have a centering of female relationships, whether those are friendships
or like adversaries. Yeah, we've got different kind of like, oh,
there're scenes at a mall, you know, scenes where they're
putting on makeup, but those are like goofy and like
never really a makeover scene anyway. We've got some tropes,

(58:51):
and we've got some subversions of tropes. I thought that
the friendship between Lola and Ella was more nuanced than
a lot of friendships I've seen in teen girl movies.
Where so movies like this usually involve a brief falling out,

(59:14):
like around the low point around the end of act
two of the movie of the Friends, like the two friends,
some truth gets revealed, or some fight happens where they
have a falling out, and sometimes it feels like very
contrived and it's based on like, well, girls be petty trope,
so they obviously have to fight for no reason. But

(59:36):
this one I thought was like very interesting where Ella
learns that Lola had lied so many Elle sounds lied
to Ella about Lola's father dying. She tries to brush
it off and then says, well, you know, I had
to seem more interesting. But also I had to defend

(59:57):
my mom from your snooty parent being judgmental about my
mom being a single mom, which might be a separate
conversation about like the kind of attitudes towards single moms
presented by various characters in this movie.

Speaker 4 (01:00:13):
But yeah, but I also feel like that awareness was
like baked into the movie where Lola is like really
angry that her mom is being judged in that way
when it seems like the only fair point made is
the very early two thousands appropriated chopsticks and the hair. Now,
I think Ella's mom accidentally made a good point there.

(01:00:35):
I don't think that that was why she said it, though, right,
But yeah, I appreciated that. I think it's like a
general good thing that instead of what might be more
realistic is like hearing that from another parent and internalizing
it and feeling shame and confusion about it about your
own parent. Like Lola is like, no, fuck you, Like

(01:00:56):
you're not going to talk about my parent that way.
And I also like that that presents a more kind
of nuanced dynamic between Lola and her mom because they're
always in conflict, but if someone fucks with her mom,
she's like, not gonna hear it.

Speaker 3 (01:01:11):
Love it for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:01:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:01:13):
Yeah. And then once this lie gets revealed and they
have this argument about it and they make up and
Lola earnestly apologizes for lying, and you know, Ella says, promised,
you'll never lie again. She's like, I promise. But I
also think that Ella owes Lola an apology for like
being complicit in her parents' judging us absolutely of Lola

(01:01:36):
and her family, which Ella never apologizes for that, but
they make up and Ella says that, you know, she
was miserable until Lola came to New Jersey, and before that,
Ella thought that she just had to do whatever she
thought she was supposed to do and whatever people wanted
her to do, and to never question anything. But because

(01:01:58):
of Lola, like she felt brave enough to try to
be different. And also I was like, does Ella have
a crush on Lola? I was kind of getting vibes anyway, I.

Speaker 4 (01:02:12):
Would believe it. I feel like Alison Pill, while not
a queer one herself that I'm aware of, played many
queer coded characters during this time, so maybe it's also
just like what we associate with this character. I love
Alison Pal She's so fun, true, and I like that.
I mean, in two thousand and three, it's going to

(01:02:33):
be kept ambiguous whether you like it or not. And
especially because what they initially bond over is like this
band that they're both really into, and it's just like
this intense friendship between girls, and we don't really know
how they feel beyond that. But it's like an intense
teenage friendship and I love seeing those. And yeah, I

(01:02:54):
felt like where apologies are so fumbled in these kinds
of movies, it felt like it was done in like
a more sincere way than I was expecting. I liked it.

Speaker 3 (01:03:06):
I also appreciated that they become fast friends based on
their love of said Arthur. And then there's a scene
that reminded me of like when Malfoy goes up to
Harry Potter when they first get to Hogwart. Sorry to
be making a Harry Potter reference right now, but Malfoy's like, hey, there,

(01:03:27):
you don't want to fall in with the wrong crowd,
you know, you want to make friends with the right people.
I can help you there. And then Harry's like, I
can tell the wrong crowd from myself, thinks, And then
he becomes friends with Ron and Hermione instead Carla. Like,
Malfoy's over to Lola and she's like, you don't want
to hang out with Ella. She dresses like a politician's wife,

(01:03:49):
She's a dweb. You have so much potential. I can
help you be cool, which is also extremely like the
plot of Mean Girls.

Speaker 4 (01:03:57):
Mean Girls. Yeah, but what if Lindsay Lohan made the
opposite decision exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:04:03):
I think Megan Fox would be great and mean Girls.
I don't know if she had the acting chops at
the time, but if they were developed a little bit,
I think she would have been a great addition to
Mean Girls personally.

Speaker 3 (01:04:12):
True. But yeah, so Lola is like, I'm gonna hang
out with my friend who likes the same music and
who is nice, and you're visibly mean and awful. So no, thanks,
I don't really care about being popular, like I'll make
my own way. And I thought that was just a
very nice way for the story to play out.

Speaker 4 (01:04:35):
I liked it. I thought it was lovely, and I mean,
I guess, yeah, the other main conflict between women, although
we have Miss Bogoli, who is you know, a very
like broad character. But I guess this is like grading
on a curved scale. But she wasn't treated as badly
as I would expect her to be treated. True, Yeah,

(01:04:55):
so I kind of don't have an issue with it.
Like she was obviously very goofy, but also like she's
good at her job. She wasn't like completely I don't know.
I feel like sometimes adult characters in kids movies and
this makes sense, but they're just treated as like on
another planet, like so goofy, and.

Speaker 3 (01:05:14):
She's like goofy but also not grounded like I would say,
like goofy, but ground's perfect. She was perfect.

Speaker 4 (01:05:21):
It was Carol Kane with the tightest perm anyone's ever seen,
Like just really good.

Speaker 1 (01:05:27):
So I laughed out loud repeatedly at her.

Speaker 4 (01:05:30):
So when she does the like that, I laughed so hard.
It feels like good teacher representation.

Speaker 1 (01:05:37):
Yeah, totally.

Speaker 3 (01:05:38):
I think that she needs to learn to grow a
bit of a spine though, because she lets Carla steamroll
her in the adaptation of Pigmillion that they're doing, and
then she like was again laughing along with Carla against
Lola towards the end.

Speaker 4 (01:05:56):
I just can't be mad at her.

Speaker 1 (01:05:57):
I care.

Speaker 4 (01:05:58):
Wait, I just feel like should be allowed to drink
at school one day a week, and they should be
allowed to laugh at their students sometimes unless they are
given a raise.

Speaker 1 (01:06:06):
Wait, there's that one part in the auditorium where Lola
asked Miss Bogoli if the adaptation was her idea because
Carla had been touting it as her own idea, and
Miss Bogolis like, of course, it's my idea. Why would
you ask me if it's my idea or not? And like,
it's unclear who was lying there to me?

Speaker 3 (01:06:25):
And I think it was Carla, right, because it could
have been miss Bogoli who was like, I rewrote this
whole thing.

Speaker 1 (01:06:33):
I think it was miss Bogoli's idea.

Speaker 3 (01:06:35):
I interpreted it as Carla bullying off screen, Miss Bogoli,
I see how you can get to do that, But
it's open it could have been the other way around.

Speaker 1 (01:06:45):
Yeah, because her and Lindsay Lohan's character exchanged. This look
as if like Carla's uncomfortable that she has seen right now.

Speaker 4 (01:06:53):
That Carla is certainly not lie herself. It is so wild.
I feel like, in some ways it does makes sense
to me that Carla and Lola don't like each other
because they are very similar in positive and also deeply
negative ways where you're like, I, yeah, they're basically the
same character, but we are just told to like one

(01:07:15):
of them right, where they both are like rich white
girls who are into theater and DDR and telling lies
like they are doing the same thing and they like
the same band and.

Speaker 1 (01:07:28):
Have a lot of unearned arrogance.

Speaker 4 (01:07:32):
Yes, yes, yes, so it's like they're basically the same character.
But this kind of this is not a fully big thought.
I feel like it's been expanded on more thoughtfully in
other places. But just how like Megan Fox is positioned,
especially in her early movies. We talked about this a
million years ago in our Transformers episode, but she's more

(01:07:54):
positioned as the girl next door. I think in her
early roles, which include this. Before this, I think she
was in a she was the bully in a Mary
Kayden Ashley movie. And like, I think that the way
that Megan Fox was treated repeatedly and her early career
especially is like too pretty or too conventionally pretty to

(01:08:14):
be sympathetic too, and like you have to hate her
because she is too pretty to be quote unquote relatable,
and in a way that is like ends up becoming
cruel to Megan Fox in a way that I think that,
especially in the two thousands, felt like women frequently joined
in on and so it's just like a dog pile

(01:08:37):
from all sides. And this role, Like, I don't think
that this role like stands out in her treatment of
that way, but it feels kind of consistent in the
way she was treated.

Speaker 1 (01:08:47):
Definitely Also, I think there's always, or often not always,
the main protagonist generally has light hair, and the mean
girl generally is brunette with dark features.

Speaker 4 (01:09:01):
Going.

Speaker 3 (01:09:02):
That's like the early animated Disney movie formula too. It's
true blonde princesses and dark everyone's white. But yeah, of
course the villains have black hair, right, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (01:09:17):
And I wonder if this is like if this was
originally a d com Disney Channel original movie with a
big budget and Lindsay Lohan, who was really popping at
the time, and so they gave it a theastrical release
and called it a real movie.

Speaker 4 (01:09:29):
I read that this role in a way that I'm like, wow,
there were three teenage girls at this time, allegedly, and
they were Lindsay Lohan, Amanda Bynes, and Hillary Duff. This
part was originally written for Hillary Duff, yes, and then
given to Lindsay Lohan. I think a smarter move. I
don't know that Hillary Duff can play dramatic drama arrogance. Ye, Like,

(01:09:53):
she's very pure in her screen presence at least everywhere,
and still now I like follow her on Oh my.

Speaker 1 (01:09:59):
God, raise every voice I don't remember, but yes, that's.

Speaker 4 (01:10:02):
Wait, someone in this movie is in Raise Your Voice.
I think it might be Sam. Sure, I think Sam
may also be the boy from Raise Your Voice. Anyways,
it doesn't matter. That movie is dog.

Speaker 1 (01:10:13):
Shit, real bad. It's so bad. I saw that one
at theaters and I remember leaving like what. I was
a kid, and I was like, this was really bad.

Speaker 4 (01:10:22):
It was also like there's a I just remember that
it's really sad in addition to being really bad, and
you're like, what are.

Speaker 3 (01:10:29):
We doing here?

Speaker 4 (01:10:30):
Anyways, I'm glad the part went to Lindsay low Hid.
But yes, it's so broadly written that you're like the
bully character. We don't get an insight into her really
at all, to the point where, like you were saying,
this is a quite like it's hard to know when
she's telling the truth or not. When we always know
whether Lola is telling the truth or not.

Speaker 3 (01:10:50):
So with the Carla character. I mean, this movie gives
us a very familiar storyline of teen girls being mean
and or competitive with each other. We've seen it a
million times in movies, and this extends not just to
teen girls but like adult women as well. It's a

(01:11:10):
very familiar narrative device. We've seen it a million times.
We've talked about it on the show a million times,
and as we've discussed, this trope doesn't come from nowhere,
Like teen girls and women can be cruel to each
other in real life, it's just a matter of like,
does the story recognize and contextualize why this happens, which

(01:11:33):
is that girls and women in our patriarchal society are
conditioned to think that they have to compete against each
other for the limited spots that girls and women are
allowed to occupy. This movie does not dive too deeply
into this, but I do think it does a decent

(01:11:53):
job examining that. Like carlas you know, the Megan Fox
character clearly feels deeply threatened by Lola and her talent
and her looks and her status. And when Lola doesn't
want to be friends with Carla, she turns on Lola
because Carla is a very insecure person.

Speaker 4 (01:12:17):
YEA.

Speaker 3 (01:12:17):
Insecurity is a very common experience for teens in general,
but especially teen girls who are taught that their value
comes from very specific things, especially how physically attractive they are,
how much like social status they have.

Speaker 4 (01:12:33):
Things like that.

Speaker 3 (01:12:34):
Lola is also insecure, which is I think why she
lies and embellishes a lot. Yeah, she's more concerned about
like seeming interesting. But they're both you know, like experiencing
similar emotions and situations. They just handle it differently. But again,

(01:12:55):
the movie isn't providing a lot of like heavy analysis
on these things, but it's presenting to them in a
way that feels authentic more or less to me at least,
which you know, not all movies do that. A lot
of them are just like, well, I'm a male screenwriter,
and I've seen teen girls be really mean to each

(01:13:17):
other and I don't know why, but I've seen there's a.

Speaker 4 (01:13:21):
Guest, here's me just throwing shits along. Yeah, it does
feel like as goofy as it can be. It does
feel kind of like clear to me that women wrote
this movie or had a high creative hand in it,
because even at the end, I mean, it's like, again,
very movie, but the fact that like Lola makes a

(01:13:42):
gesture to Carla like pulls her out of the water fountain,
It's like, Okay, so this movie's like internal code is
not that women hate each other forever, because I feel
like if it was like a very general dude coded movie,
you know, Carlo would be tossed off a cliff whatever.
But this one is like, there's a road to reconciliation

(01:14:03):
for these characters and great for them whatever. I wanted
to quickly shut out the fact that this movie is
written and directed by women, both white women. We have
a director, Sarah Sugarman, who this is the only movie
of hers that I recognized, but she's got a whole career.

(01:14:23):
She was an actor and also a director. And then
Gail parent who is iconic to me. I really love her.
She started as a writer on the Carol Burnett Show
way back in the day, and then she co created
one of my favorite shows ever, Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman,
which I would recommend to anyone listening. It's like it

(01:14:45):
was a Norman Lear I think helmed show that came
out in the seventies that was a parody of soap operas,
basically a feminist soap opera parody about seventies housewives and
how they were treated and this sort of general quote
unquote housewife character who starts cheating on her loser husband,

(01:15:06):
amongst other things. It's the best. I love it. She's
a legend to me. And then when I found out
that the writer of this movie was into her sixties.
I'm like, yeah, I believe it.

Speaker 1 (01:15:17):
Yeah, maybe that's why Miss Bli was so good.

Speaker 3 (01:15:20):
Right. This movie is also adapted from a book of
I Think the Same Name, written by American novelist Diane Sheldon.
So yeah, the creative voices behind this story are for
the girls before girls by Girls, but it's also for

(01:15:41):
everyone who.

Speaker 4 (01:15:42):
Wants to enjoy. So gil Parent also wrote on Golden Girls,
and she also wrote Cadet Kelly's Let's just continue to
give her her flowers.

Speaker 1 (01:15:53):
We love her, My time for the lady, right, she's
the coolest. I also feel this is kind of separate.
Disney wanted to give Lindsay Lohan a music career real
bad because she has this song at the end of
Confession between John Queen. She also has a couple songs.

Speaker 4 (01:16:10):
In Freaky Friday I'm Sick Oh yeah, and then the.

Speaker 1 (01:16:13):
Same year it might be the next year Rumors is
her first single.

Speaker 4 (01:16:17):
Well, honestly, I'm like noe. With all due respect to
Hilary Duff. If Hillary Duff had a music career, why
didn't Lindsay lovehand?

Speaker 3 (01:16:25):
Good question?

Speaker 4 (01:16:26):
And I kind of wonder if the way that she
was treated in the media, interfered with it because it's
like most Disney slash Nickelodeon music careers. It's mostly like
an extension of marketing that we love to this day.
Like there's a few exceptions to that, but we don't
need to get into it.

Speaker 3 (01:16:45):
Can we talk about Carla's two mean girl friends. It'll
be a quick conversation because we don't really ever hear
them talk. But obviously Carla is like, you know, the
Queen Bee, She's the Regina George type. This character in

(01:17:06):
movies often has two friends who follow her around. They
barely speak. I feel like often one of them is
a white girl and one of them is a girl
of color. In this movie, the black girl who is
friends with Carla, I would say, is on screen less

(01:17:27):
than the white friend, because like she's not at the
after party Stu's after party toward the end, whereas the
white friend is, and I think she doesn't speak at all,
whereas the white friend has at least one line. I mean,
neither of them get any narrative significance here. But I

(01:17:48):
feel like the white girl is like favored a bit
more as far as like a few lines of dialogue
and more screen time, and it just got me thinking
about how like this type of like sidekick mean girl character,
like the different versions we've seen, I mean, in this
movie is obviously like they don't have characters, but speaking

(01:18:10):
of she's all that. There's a similar situation with the
Gabrielle Union character where she's like one of the mean
girl sidekicks. She's the black one and then the other
one is like the white girl. But unlike most of
those archetypal characters, she has a personality, she has dialogue,
and she even has an arc where she becomes friends
with the like female protagonist by the end of the movie.

(01:18:35):
So I was just like, well, that would have been
nice to see or would have been nice to see
you know, yeah, anyone in this movie who wasn't a
white person given any narrative significance, but yeah, oops, we
forgot to do that.

Speaker 4 (01:18:49):
Yeah, And I feel like that is like so often
built into or like tacitly justified by a class, which
also does not make sense if you've ever been to
a middle class, upper middle class community, Like, they are
still predominantly white, but they're not entirely white the way
that these movies present them and Also it's like it's

(01:19:10):
a movie. It's fake. There's like Lindsay Lohan's dad fake
dying in a cartoon accident. You can diversify this boring
New Jersey suburb as much as you like.

Speaker 3 (01:19:23):
Also, just quick mention of Lola's hunger strike where she's
like emulating Gandhi's hunger strike, but like the clothes she's wearing,
the music that's playing in this scene, it's all very
like her appropriating like vague Indian culture. Basically.

Speaker 1 (01:19:46):
So there's this book that's like a classic book, said Artha,
which is I have a hard time with this band
because I keep wanting to call the band, said Artha.
But it's called Sir Arthur. But if I'm not mistaken,
and I very well could be, I think, said Artha,
the main character of the book goes on a hunger strike.
I could have made that up. But I was like,

(01:20:07):
I wonder if they know that they're making that. If
that is the case, I wonder if they if they're
doing that on purpose. Either way, it's wrong, but I'm
wondering what they were thinking when it would.

Speaker 4 (01:20:20):
Be curious, like what the logic justification was so interesting? Okay,
it's like see where we don't read books and so
we wouldn't know this. This is really helpful.

Speaker 1 (01:20:30):
I read it in high school. Who's to say what
actually happened in that book?

Speaker 4 (01:20:33):
Brave?

Speaker 3 (01:20:35):
I mean, the whole thing is clearly like she's dramatic,
She's a drama queen. She's gonna like go to the extreme,
which like could mean of what ends up being a
fake hunger strike because we find out that she's eating
like Domino's pizza the whole time. But if she's gonna
make this dramatic choice by going on a hunger strike,
she doesn't also need to appropriate another culture while she's

(01:20:58):
doing it. But I feel like that was one of
the few examples of like like a very dated, problematic
choice like that in this movie, because like two thousand
and four was the peak for a lot of these,
and you wouldn't see it as much in a Disney
movie or a movie targeted toward younger people, but like

(01:21:20):
this was also the peak of like, let's take homophobia, transphobia, racism, sexism,
et cetera, and just like make that what every joke
in a movie derives from.

Speaker 4 (01:21:33):
Yeah, yeah, so well. And I also liked that it's
a subtle theme in this movie, but just the concept
of names that just like, this is the name I
go by, and at the beginning of the movie, her
mom does not respect that. At the end of the movie,
her mom does respect that. And I appreciate that that

(01:21:53):
was like taken and I don't think that I mean,
I don't know, it doesn't seem like the movie it
was intending much more than just acceptance from a parent.
But that's a broad enough theme that it like that
works for everybody. Where at the beginning, her mom like
doesn't really take her daughter seriously enough to take that
at face value. It kind of weirdly reminded me of

(01:22:15):
Ladybird in that way where you see a very similar
sort of like my name is Ladybird, and then at
the beginning is like I refuse to acknowledge that, And
at the end there's motion there. And I think that
that is like a nice thing to see for parents
and for kids in a movie like that, because I'm
sure as many parents saw this movie as kids, whether

(01:22:37):
voluntarily or not.

Speaker 3 (01:22:40):
Does anyone have anything else they would like to discuss
about the movie.

Speaker 4 (01:22:46):
Why did the backup dancers have blue hair? That's the
last thing I have to say, Oh, in the play,
I thought.

Speaker 1 (01:22:53):
It was something about pigmillion.

Speaker 4 (01:22:55):
The understand because of like, why do they look like
the guy from Team Rocket in Pokemon?

Speaker 3 (01:23:05):
And they all know, well, they're they're modernizing pigmillions and
modern equals blue hair hair.

Speaker 4 (01:23:14):
It was wild. I guess, like, I don't need to know,
but I just would like to know how to The
thought was, I would like to no judgment.

Speaker 3 (01:23:22):
No, Well, this movie does pass the Bechdel test a lot,
a lot, not when Lola is lying about her father dying,
because she's talking about a man they do also talk
about like Stu Wolf and Sam some but there's lots
of conversations about the play and clothes and stuff like

(01:23:50):
that between many combinations of characters. So yeah, heftily passing.
They say, but what about the most important magic in
the whole world? Oh my gosh, are you talking about
our famous nipple scale, in which we rate the movie
on a scale that no regrets on a scale of

(01:24:14):
zero to five nipples based on examining the movie through
an intersectional feminist lens. I will give this oof maybe three,
maybe two and a half. I think it's doing some
interesting things as far as relationships between teen girls go.

(01:24:37):
I think it's clear that the creative minds behind this
story were women, drawing from their experiences, possibly at the
very least have a better idea of what it is
to be a teen girl than the men who often
write these stories about like female characters being in competition

(01:24:57):
with each other and or being friends with each other,
because men also don't understand what female friendship looks like
a lot of the time. So I thought like the
nuances in those relationships were interesting, including the mother daughter relationship,
although that's not super focused on, but I enjoyed that relationship.
The two romantic interests are like, best case scenario annoying

(01:25:22):
and unnecessary. Worst case scenario predatory and disgusting. So that
takes several nippleage points off.

Speaker 4 (01:25:33):
Yeah, reretitor, skip it.

Speaker 3 (01:25:35):
Yeah. Also, not a diverse cast in anyway, lots of
straight CIS white people, So I guess it's going to
be like a split down the middle for me two
point five nipples. I will give all of them to the.

Speaker 4 (01:25:52):
Dog, perfect, thank you. Yeah, I'll go the same, right
down the middle. I think that, hey, you're getting more
than you average early aughts teen girl movie in this movie,
but that doesn't mean that you're really seeing that much.
I appreciate the friendship dynamics that are a little more nuanced.
I think that you representation of women behind the camera

(01:26:16):
is very rare for most of these movies. And again, like,
this movie is helmed and stars white girls and women,
and there's clearly no effort or thought into anything but
upper class white girl experiences, which is this movie does

(01:26:37):
not move the needle in this genre at all, because
I mean, that's so teen movie, that's so dcom Like
so much teen girl media is entrenched in white girls
of this class specifically and the sort of problems slash
non problems that they have. But I do think you
can feel that this movie was written by people who

(01:27:00):
have some understanding of what teen girls grow through and
their friendships, the intensity of their friendships, the intensity of
like the things that they care about, whether it's rational
or not, in a way that didn't feel like even
when it was intense and dramatic, and like Lindsay Lohan
wearing a funeral dress to school when the band broke up,
which we should have given more attentions, I thought that

(01:27:21):
so good. That's one of the things I always remember
it's both really dramatic and goofy, but it's like not
making fun of her in a way that I feel
like that's a really hard balance to strike without having
lived that in some way yourself.

Speaker 3 (01:27:39):
I thought I was going to be really annoyed by
like the movie in general, and especially by the drama
queen character, because like, I don't want to see someone
being like irrationally dramatic all the time, Like that's very
annoying to me. But Lindsay Lohan's playing it, so I'm like, oh, like, yes,
she's being dramatic about a lot of things, but in

(01:28:02):
a way that's like very funny, and her like monologues
about certain things are like extremely well written, and I'm like,
if did you just improvise that? Because that was poetry.

Speaker 4 (01:28:12):
Gail parent Like, she's a really good writer. I really love.
Everyone should watch Mary Hartman. Mary Hartman. It's on whatever
that thing is that isn't YouTube daily Motion for some reason,
who knows why, But I highly recommend it. It's really
really good. So yeah, I'll split it down the middle
because all of the men are creepy and unnecessary, and
so I will give one to Gail parent. I will

(01:28:35):
give one to Lindsay Lohan and then I guess, oh,
I guess I'm gonna split the last quarter nipples. Pretty cruel.
But Alison Pill and Meghan Fox, I mean two icons
and I'm Carol Caine.

Speaker 3 (01:28:48):
You see. Ah, I'll give one of mine to Carol
Kane and I'll get the dog one and a half.

Speaker 1 (01:28:54):
Nice.

Speaker 4 (01:28:55):
I can't believe you ranked Dog above Carol Kane. History
will remember that, Caitlin, that's just.

Speaker 3 (01:29:02):
Me being dramatic.

Speaker 4 (01:29:05):
So, Kraia, what do you think?

Speaker 1 (01:29:06):
I agree? I was leaning two point five to three,
so I'll stay in that two point five range. I
really like that it makes teen girls. It makes it
clear that they are worthy of redemption, and just because
you do something bad once or a few times doesn't
mean that you are bad and that's who you are
as person. And I feel like a lot of the

(01:29:28):
time that's not the message that teen girls get in media.
So grateful for that. And then, of course the men
are unnecessary and creepy and weird and gross and disgusting,
and so that definitely deducts some points from there. I'm
going to give one full nipple to Megan Fox because
she as we talked about earlier has been mistreated because

(01:29:52):
of the way that she's been type cast. I will
give one to Lindsay Lohan because she's Lindsay Lohan and
she deserves and the half nipple can go to Carol Kine. Yea, yeah,
she's great, like actually fantastic. Considering moving it up to
three so she can have an entire nipple herself.

Speaker 3 (01:30:12):
Whatever you want. Yeah, well, Seqoya, thank you so much
for joining us. This has been a treat, so much fun.
Where can people check out your social media? Check out
your podcast for sure?

Speaker 1 (01:30:25):
Thank you so much for having me first of all,
and thank you so much for indulging one of my
teen child's moments anytime. It was great. It was a
great refresh to watch it again. You can find me
across social media at Sequoia b Holmes. You can find
my podcast anywhere you listen to podcasts, including YouTube, and
you can find it on social at BPLP.

Speaker 3 (01:30:44):
Pod awesome amazing. You can check us out on a
guest Twitter and Instagram at Bechtel Cast. More importantly, subscribe
to our Matreon at patreon dot com slashpactel Cast, where
you get two bonus episodes every month, plus access to

(01:31:04):
the back catalog of like one hundred and fifty bonus episodes,
fun themes, lots of dcom's over there, lots of good
you wouldn't believe.

Speaker 4 (01:31:17):
I mean, we also just this is not a decom movie,
but Decom code and we just did what a girl wants.
So you can hop on over there for that and more,
and you can get our merch at teapublic dot com
slash the Bechtyl Cast. And with that, does anyone want
to go end up with a really perfunctory, boring end

(01:31:38):
of movie boyfriend, because that's how this movie ends.

Speaker 3 (01:31:41):
No, but I do want to star in Eliza Rocks
and ooh sing with blue haired people behind me.

Speaker 4 (01:31:48):
I want to be one of the blue haired people.
I'm not aiming too high.

Speaker 1 (01:31:52):
Nice.

Speaker 3 (01:31:53):
Yeah, that was the part that you actually wanted all along.
That's the most interesting role.

Speaker 4 (01:31:57):
Actually, I'm really getting into the story.

Speaker 3 (01:31:59):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay, bye bye,