Flatliners with Matt McCarthy

Today is a good day to do an episode about Flatliners! Jamie and Caitlin invite guest Matt McCarthy, who enters the studio via scaling a building for no reason.

(This episode contains spoilers)

Follow @mccarthyredhead on Twitter! While you're there, you should also follow @BechdelCast, @caitlindurante and @hamburgerphone

 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the Bechdel Cast, the questions asked if movies have
women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands?
Do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef invest start changing
it with the Bechdel Cast. Hi, and welcome to the
Bechdel Cast. My name is Caitlin, and we're having a

(00:20):
podcast today and every day. Yeah, I'm well, I'll tell
you what it is and then I'll go into I'm
having a day. Um. The Bechtel Cast is a podcast
where we talk about the portrayal of women in movies.
Why do we do this, Well, it's just because a
lot of movies because don't portray women well. But really

(00:42):
it's just because just because we felt like it. The
Bechtel Cast is inspired by the Bechdel Test, which requires
that two women in a movie have names, they talked
to each other about something other than a man. And
we'll figure out whether this movie passes later on. But first,
but first, you're having a day. My car got towed
because I'm a fucking idiot and I parked in front

(01:04):
of a driveway that I didn't realize was a driveway
because it had like a big gate over in it,
and it just looked like a fence, and I didn't
see that it was a driveway. Uh so I got
my car towed. I still don't know where it is.
I don't even know how to locate it. So I
think I just don't have a car anymore. I'm having
a day and it feels like a good day to die. WHOA,

(01:25):
WHOA into the movie we're talking about, which is Flatliners.
But before we get into it, let's introduce our guests.
You've seen him on Conan, You've seen him on Adam
Ruins Everything. He hosts a podcast called We Watch Wrestling.
Matt McCarthy, Hello, Hello, thank you for joining us on

(01:48):
this wonderful day that I'm having. Hey man, that ain't
your fault, Yeah, and it's kind of it was my fault.
What's gonna talk? Because like, I'm gonna have to pay
several hundred dollars to get it untowed. You know? Is
my mistake worth several hundred dollars? I don't think so,
but that's how much it'll probably cost. I think it's
worth it, because, after all, you just paid off your car, right.

(02:09):
Think of how many people just think of it as
this month's car payment. Well, Is it worth it to
get my car? Yes, of course, I'm saying, is the
mistake I made? Should my punish maybe several hundred dollars
that I have to pay. We think of all the
people that benefit from that money, either the county and
the tow truck people. They have kids too. You just
bought the tow truck person's family, you know, groceries. My

(02:32):
money was going to like the Southern Poverty Law Center
or to like help alleviate homelessness in Los Angeles. Fine,
but it's not going to go to those things. Oh,
I guess tow truck drivers should just eat out of
the garbage can and live on the street. I understand
they can tow away dumpsters for dinner that night. Is

(02:53):
that what you're saying. That's not what I'm saying. Their
daughters don't deserve to go to dance classes. Caitlinda nor
all right, well, I don't like where this is gone. Sorry,
you're having a bad day and everyone's getting up on you.
You did a good thing today. You're you're participating in
the economy. You're giving back. Yeah, you're literally giving back. Yeah,

(03:13):
you get to go to an impound Now, I don't
get would you when? Would you ever ever get to
do that? That's right. Maybe they'll be an experience. Maybe
maybe you'll meet my future domestic partner there, because I'm
not getting married ever. A lot of a lot of
sexy singles hang out at the impound lone, that's true. Yeah,

(03:34):
all right, let's talk about Flatliners. Matt When did you
see this movie for the first time? And what's your
relationship to this movie. Well, it's interesting because this is
I was terrified of scary movies and TV shows when
I was a kid, well into you know. Well, it's

(03:55):
like when here's like a good example and excuse my language,
but I want to get the quote right. When Michael
Jackson died, my cousin called my brother and said, hey, Michael,
asked your brother if he still cries like a bitch
when Thriller comes on the TV. So the Thriller music
video was scared? Oh my god. Yeah, yeah, I was scary. Yeah,

(04:16):
I had booky. I was so scared of well, I
was five when it came out, Like the Hogan Family
Halloween episode where all three brothers have nightmares. Scared me
so much I unplugged the TV. Yeah, so you saw
this movie made you very scared. Well, no, because this

(04:39):
was I saw this growing up. I watched Flatliners alone
and it scared the hell out of me. But it
has like a happy ending, like everything gets resolved. It
was the first scary movie I watched that. I was like,
I'm not scared afterwards or tonight going to bed, because
it was like there was a resolution and everybody was
one technically everyone but Oliver Plat die. I know, what

(05:05):
a whimp. God, I have a lot of He was
also part that could have been. Yeah, Oliver Platt was
born forty six years old. I don't know if so
if this came out ninety, I must have seen it.
In so I was like eleven, Jamie, what about you?

(05:25):
When did you see it? Last night? When I am
and I enjoyed it. I liked it. It was fun.
I think a lot of it was fun for me,
just because I love watching the Schumacher tropes. Just roll
on in. Do you mean? Like, well, I don't know
if this is a Schumacher trope, but the production design
in this movie, specifically the lighting, Yes, I think it's

(05:46):
so fucking corny. I think it like, yeah, it all
is sort of wit like a high school die trying
to be David Lynch. Yes, it looked like I was.
I watched it before where I came here, and it
was one of the scenes where Keifer Sutherland is in
his outrageous apartment with no furniture, and I go, it's

(06:07):
just it's a fucking music video. It's so music video
the whole movie. Well, they go to med school in
an art museum, in a museum that's under renovation, which
he thinks that they would address at any point, but
they never. Everywhere they go is either closed for the night,
like the diner, all the chairs are up, but they're
they're in there with one matress ripping cigarettes. Well, I

(06:29):
assumed that this movie took place in some alternative timeline,
but then they make all these very of the moment
references that it's like, oh no, they're just supposed to
be in Chicago. What's the used to because someone says
kind of Bacon says that he was on the l
or something right right and now, and then I was
just like, Okay, now I know, but it could out

(06:50):
to our Chicago fans and starting in the movie, Chicago,
not anyone who lives in Chicago. Yeah, yeah, people who
really love Richard your singing voice. This episodes dedicated to you. Yeah,
and the way that Joel Shoemaker styles it just looks
like like there's literally steam everywhere outside just the city
is just taking a long fart for the entire but

(07:12):
no one is there, like it's totally a band. Like
I thought that they were going to address like, oh
this is Chicago. If if everyone left, it was very strange. Well,
there's also the scene where Julie Robert's character is tending
to that very elderly woman who's on her deathbed and
they're the hospital that they're in, like it looks like
a World War two era Like, yes, it archaic looking,

(07:36):
you know the hospital scene and Gone with the Wind
reminded me of that, like just like a right, like
it's a makeshift hospital that got set up in the
hallway of someone's mansion. Yeah, it looks dirty. It doesn't
look like the production design is bonkers in this movie.
But yeah, I had not seen this movie. Either I
thought I did, or maybe it's just because I it
had been recommended to me so often and explained to

(07:56):
me like what the premise was that I was like, yeah,
I know this movie I must have. Then I watched
I was like, whoops, I've never seen it, but I
watched it twice. Generally I liked it, except I hate
the third act. I hate how it ends. The resolution
is so stupid, and I'll get into it later, but
it kind of ruined the whole movie for me. The
way the third act unfolds. I think the whole movie

(08:17):
is like I don't know, It's like I enjoyed watching it,
but it is very boring, where it's like, like, what
could you learn by watching this whole movie that you
couldn't take away by just watching the trailer, you know,
like they die over and over. I remember the bits
that were in the commercials of so many movies. So
as soon as Oliver plaqueas I didn't go to medical
school to help my classmates die or something like that,

(08:39):
that was I was like, Oh, that wasn't the commercial.
That was big time And today is a good day
to die. Of course, it's the best line in the movie,
and it's the first line of dialogue and it's all
downhill from there. The last line in the movies by
far the worst. It's not it's it's not such a
good day to turns out I was yeah, and then

(09:00):
just tuba music plays out there. I like the idea,
I like the story, but I mean the execution. I
don't like Joel Schuemaker movies. Shout out to my Phantom heads. I, well,
I don't know how to First of all, I like
the incredible shrinking woman. I haven't seen that I've seen ole.

(09:21):
I I just met met downstairs, and I did what
I do when I don't know how to start a conversation,
which is a bring up. Joel Schuewalker is the Fantom
of the Opera. Yeah, no, the number twenty three is
probably the worst movie I've ever seen. So that one's
very bad. That one's very I forgot that was a
Joel Schumaker joint Family of the Opera. Two guys for
cannot wait to cover it in a future episode. Shout

(09:41):
out to Jerry Butler, should have been your breakout roll.
Too bad you cannot sing? That was really the only
thing that in everything about the movie. Anyways. Shout out
to my Shoewalker heads. Joel shoe Walker is mediocre in
a very special way because he's trying, like he's going
for so much and none of it is like clearly,
I totally agree, Like he doesn't pay off Batman. He

(10:07):
put nipples on Batman, which is maybe the most famous
thing he's ever definite, and you can tell he's like
trying to go for David Lynch kind of it just
totally fails, but it fails spectacularly. Like the first I
can't remember exactly how many times it like six times
total that people die in this movie either way, the

(10:29):
first three just look like he took a clip from
like a discarded David Lynch short. And then eventually you
go to Kevin Bacon's and then it looks like, oh,
his version of death is a screensaver, you know, like
everyone's version of death is just like it's, oh God,
it's it's bad. Well, why not use this opportunity to

(10:53):
do the recap? Okay, here I go FLATLINERDS. It's got
a bit of an ensemble cast, but our main character
is Nelson played by Keefer Sutherland, and he is a
med student along with four fellow at school students who
go to again school in an art museum in an
empty building, and he's interested in seeing what might be

(11:16):
out there after death, like if they're sort of a
life after death or what happens where you go, and
he's interested in exploring this, so he and all his
med school friends basically they medically kill themselves for like first,
it's like a minute or a minute a half or
something like that, and then they keep going for longer
and longer, but they're betting too, yeah, longer, So after

(11:38):
they've been dead for a minute or so, then they
revived them and they have to give him a shot
of morphine and do their defibrillators and all that stuff,
and they she's back mouth to mouth like this, only
the sexy characters get to give mouth to mouth. I

(11:59):
turned it turned that day is a Schumacher rule. If
you're not in the top three most fuckable characters per
the story, you're not going to be given mouth to mouth.
You're not going to have mouth to mouth administered to you.
Oliver Platt, no way. Everyone else, literally everyone else in
the cast takes their shirt off at some point, except,

(12:21):
of course, it goes without saying that. It turns out,
I've seen a lot of movies that Oliver Plats, and
he's a character actor. He's in a lot of stuff,
and you just don't realize that till later. I have
a huge crush on him now, he's my favorite person.
He's in a time to kill another Schulmacher or ship show.
I don't know that I've actually seen any Joel Schumacher
movies besides this the number twenty three Batman boys. I

(12:43):
haven't seen last one. Wow, did you see saying almost fire? No?
I've seen almost no movies for someone falling down? Yes? Yeah?
Do you ever see falling Down? No? Wow? What's it
about it about falling out? Like? Kind of a cool premise,
but like again, poorly execute. Everything is wasted until Schumacher
goes without saying, well back to all I had to say,

(13:06):
I'll replet all for Billina easily could have played this part,
but I'll reply, did a great job. Go ahead and
agree with that. I've gound to make some charts with
the Platt Molina dichotomy. This is like opened up sort
of a new All the performances in the movie are good. Yeah,
everyone's good. Keif for Sutherland plays the best key for
Southerlan and I've ever seen keeper? How does he have

(13:28):
time to be a full time medical student, constantly dying
and maintain his bleached roots? I love his hair in
this movie, it's bananas and not even Frosty Tips, just
Frosty Jack frost Key for frost Baby. Bacon's great. Yeah,
Bacon shines even uh Billy Baldwin. Even I was like, Okay,

(13:51):
it's weird. It's like like how he's supposed to be
like the hot man, Like how hot he is. There's
a lot of Yeah, there's a lot of like hot
lady men with very different phases, which I feel like
doesn't happen anymore, Like everyone has the same face. Billy
Baldwin's big movie after this Sliver with Sharon Stone, I
still have never seen it again. It's like the voyeuristic

(14:12):
thing of like videotaping sex and people in hotels who
don't know that being videotaped in that whole thing. That's
just the vibe gives off. He seems like he'd be
taping like don't get into bed with this man. I love.
Love is not the word, but the look Billy Baldwin
gives his own camera while fucking for him to watch
later of him smirking at you're just like smirking at himself.

(14:37):
Here's no doubt mast He's like, yeah, what's up, future me?
And also if he is. Okay, just from a logistical obviously,
almost everything Billy Baldwin does is illegal in this movie,
and it's sort of sometimes played for humor, which like
perfect it's like Oliver Platt, but he also says, what
pussy marauder? Right, that's great. But Billy Baldwin logistically, he

(15:02):
knows he's filming this, he knows the angle. Presumably he
set it up that, but it's still it's always angle
that his it's missionary. He's like he's looking at his
own ascid face. Who rights not. Yeah, we didn't really
think that through. I don't think no, I think he
did the gime and he just wants to watch it himself.
Fuck I think. And also you know, it's like Kevin

(15:24):
Bacon and Kiefer they like make amends in it. He doesn't.
He just kind of gets busted. Well that's done. That
was the point I during the discussion. So just holding,
are we still recapping the Sorry? Sorry I screwed up
the recap by explaining something that happened in the movie.
And also cute So first Nelson he'd kill himself. Okay,

(15:50):
good Simpsons reference. Thank you. I love the recap I'm
telling you it's the best part of the episode. It
always takes four uh and I'm not sorry. So anyway,
Nelson is the first one to die see what happens
after death, and then Billy Baldwin and his vision he
likes he's like a lot of video, Robert Palmer music video.

(16:16):
And then Julie Roberts character Dr. Mannus is like, I
want to go next, and Kevin Bacon is like, no, me,
and they sort of get into this bidding more and
then then we have a crash in each other rights.
And then Kevin Bacon's character goes next. His name is
David Labrashio, which when you read it out it sort

(16:36):
of looks like lab rat almost but with like sees
and I'm like, what a fun, purposeful and whoever. Like,
that's like one of those moms where you see something
so cute either you're just like, oh, the screenwriter is
jerking himself off right now. He's so fucking proud of himself, right,
He's like, people thirty years from now we're going to

(16:58):
see that and be like, oh, my fucking god, what
a smart guy. Yeah, I sure did. Oh yeah. And
Billy Baldwin's character is Dr Joe Hurley, and he makes
you hurl the land. He has no first name or
last name. It's just some of the other characters are
like on IMDb are listed as like doctor rachel Man
as doctor Joe Hurley, but he's just Nelson. Are we

(17:20):
to believe he's not a doctor? Well, they're all in
medical school, alright, they're not doctors. I don't know what
I think about this movie. Also, the first scene, Kevin
Bacon isn't in this movie. He's scaling a building because
he gets kicked out of school and he's not allowed
to use the doors. He's suspended for four months. So
he decides to rick like he had to go on

(17:41):
to the roof of the building first to ring up
the ropes to then like scale the building, climbs out
of a second story. When they're make a casual conversation,
who are you a back you next semester? And Kevin
Bacon scaling, but he's like, it doesn't matter, I'd do
the same thing again, which is which is what you understand?
What why? He sort of intervened with like a patient

(18:01):
came in who was dying and they needed to save
her life, and he sort of intervened, was like, I'm
going to do this, and I think he saved her,
but he was like out a line, or he shouldn't
have done it, or he didn't follow procedures done it. Yeah,
so he gets suspended from school. Couldn't be further apart.
Keith's on the ground and and Kevin's on the building,
and then as soon as he lands, it's like extreme

(18:23):
close up, extreme close up. There's a lot of weird
tight shots in this movie, one of my favorites. Well,
let recap, get through this recap, and then we can Sorry,
Kevin began just entered. We've we've gone back about a
half that we've rewinded. I'm going to fast forward again. Finally,
it's Julia Roberts character's turn and he goes, which sounds

(18:46):
like again there's that screenwriter drinking himself off. And then
the visions that they have as they have been dead
for these few minutes, they're trying to make sense of
them and they're like, well, I did see something I
don't know what. And then like meanwhile, Kevin Bacon's He's like,
I'm an atheist, but I saw something I don't know

(19:07):
And then these sort of visions start to come back
and like kind of haunt them and torment them, and
you realize they're all things from these people's past, sins
that they've committed, or something that they feel guilty or
responsible for, and they start to come back and torment them.
And especially bad for Nelson because you find out that
he bullied a kid to death, and he's like, oh no,

(19:29):
and this this kid by mahoney, I didn't even have
to rewatch the movie today. Remember, Remember, sometimes I'll see
a kid in like a red hooded sweatshirt with the
hood up and I go, Billy, mahoney, Well, here's the
thing I wanted to mention. So remember when Nelson's in
Kevin Bacon's truck. They're out in the woods and he's
just sitting there and you see a little like kid

(19:51):
with the red hood up scurry by. Do you think
that's a nod to the Donald Sutherland movie Don't look
now saying they that little person? Well, consider he's buying
the red considering it's Joel Schumacher and he's made a
career of ripping off other movies. Yes, I wonder you know,

(20:14):
He's like, how funny would it be if Key for
Sutherland and we did this like visual nod to a
Donald Sutherland movie. That's the god how annoying for key
for something. So I can't make one fucking movie. So
I had I had a note in in in my
movie notes to make a point to look up later.
I just remembered, Uh, it says Billy Mahoney today hot

(20:37):
or not? And I just did the appropriate Google searches
answer not. But he's doing very well. He is a
principal and portfolio manager at Argyle Capital Partners. Good for him,
and he still uses hair gel and he's in l A.
Let's call him up. Let's call let's call this guy up,

(20:59):
Billy Mahoney. It's his real name, Joshua Rudoy. Boy. Can
that kid wheeled a hockey stick? Yeah? That's fun. Yeah.
So this kid beats the ship out of Keeper Sutherland
a few times and in the most evil dead too
way where it's just he finally gets him and then
it's just slapstick fighting and likes the loogie in his mouth. Yeah,

(21:21):
that was the only point in the movie where I
had to look away. That was an extended loogie. Yeah,
it was. It was gross. So then this kid's tormenting
him and you find out it's because he bullied him
and he fell out of a tree and died hit
him in the head with a rock, and everyone else
like trying to everyone else is like sort of taking

(21:41):
measures to correct the wrongs that they did in their past.
That are what's great is when the when Billy Mahoney dies,
Like the two kids that are with Keefer are like, oh, dude,
what the fuck the last rock? They also like, you
did that, dude, and it paralyzes that dog and the
ham hamp It's like fun, how like half that out.

(22:04):
A lot of these plot points are because the only
reason Julia Roberts thinks that it's her fault that her
dad died is because her mom turns to her and
it's very dramatically like it's your right, Like her whole life,
she thought she killed her dad by walking in on
him in the bathroom. But yeah, but it's like that
doesn't make it, doesn't He runs out of the bathroom

(22:26):
and I mean, I get from a five year olds
perspective how that would feel like it was. Well, Also,
mom flat out set up, so he's like, well, I
have to make amends, and he thinks that the only
way to do that is to go back under Nelson's like, yeah,
I gotta go kill myself again because Billy's also dead,

(22:47):
So how else is he going to make amends? I
think he does this with the intention that he'll just
remain dead. But then all his friends are like, oh no,
he's killing himself again. We gotta save him. But in
his afterlife, because he's dead for like twelve minutes, and
in that time he manages to like the roles are reversed,
and now he's up in the tree and he falls,
and that somehow makes everything better, Which is why I

(23:08):
hate the ending of this movie. It doesn't make any
sense to me anyway. I just don't like it. I mean,
you know how it feels. But then, like, how does
that somehow absolve him of any guilt? Like it just
I feel like, well, I feel like the only absolving
of guilt that makes sense of all four of them
is Kevin Bacon like that because he act, he's the

(23:31):
only one who actually goes and makes an amends. Right.
But and but in this it's like almost sort of
to Julia Roberts, We'll get to this, but like her
resolution has like a weird magical element about it where
she finds out new information that doesn't I don't know,
like none of them really line up with each other.
I guess that Billy Balin's abandoned and that's good, right, Well,

(23:53):
he's still like kind of fucked up even in the climax,
and it's like nothing's been resolved with this guy. He's
I don't think he deserves any sort of atonement like, well,
because he doesn't, because he doesn't continue to do it.
I think probably whether or not he had participated in
this at all. Well, she comes to visit him, the

(24:15):
fiance because of how disturbed he was on the phone,
so that that does instigate it. But he just gets busted, right,
and she brings up with him, which is punishment, But
he doesn't do anything to make it right. He doesn't know,
he doesn't. But do we even see him like delete
the tapes or anything. No, In fact, it's not clear

(24:36):
that he actually feels guilty for anything he's done, or
if he's just mad he gets caught, Yeah, because it's
not what you think. It's like she thinks you're fucking
other women in videotaping it without their knowledge, right, And
then she's like, yes, it is slam, but it's not so.
Videotaping women during sex without their permission or knowledge is

(24:58):
horrible and I'm guessing it's probably a crime. So it's
a crime, and it's also just morally repugnant. But also
the scene where the different women are repeating back things
that he has said to them, there's one that you're like,
there's a few. Well, there's one where she's like, you said,
we didn't have to do anything, we just want here underwear,

(25:18):
we can stop. When I was like, oh, so he's
also a rapist. He's gone above and beyond this videotaping
when also where the fund does he live? Like do
you remember that scene where it's like in the hospital
and then they pan up and Billy Baldwin's fucking none
of the locations make any sense. That's never called back
to it because like later on it looks like he
just has a two floor apartment. But there is one

(25:41):
shot where you're like watching something happen on the lower
floor and then it pans up and he's fucking a
lady and filming it very confused. Yeah, it's like is
this but then you see like his dorm a later
scene where he's going he's entering into an apartment building
from outside and that lady is sort of like harassing
at all. Yeah, because he's so you should have been

(26:03):
like Kevin Bacon, he forgot to bring his grappling hook.
He just scaled the building up to his room. It
is funny I never thought of until right now, but
there's almost foreshadowing that Schumacher will direct a Batman movie. Yeah,
in that scene of Kevin Bacon just casscading down the building. Well,
not to not to bring it back to Fantom with

(26:23):
the opera. However, it is in the early nineties when
Sir Angrew Lord Webber decides that he wants Joel Schumacher
to direct his Phantom movie, even though it doesn't come
out for fifteen years. So I enjoyed taking a step
back and watching all these fog machine scenes like everywhere,
like the drug store is foggy, the bars foggy, the

(26:46):
streets foggy, the hospital's foggy. And then see like Andrew
Lord Webber, like this is an excellent fit. This guy
gets me well mediocre, no subtlety match made in Heaven.
Do you remember that scene? It's right after Nelson has
been revived there in this sort of alley way constantly
in alleys, so many alleys. There no one lives in

(27:07):
this city Chicago. Do they go to Northwestern? I don't
know where they go to school anyway, not the still
don't matter in this bag. At one point they were
in a capital looking like in front of the Halloween
parties in front of the Capital looking building. So for
a while I thought they might be in d C.
But then about an hour and ten minutes and you're like, oh,

(27:28):
I guess this is Chicago, right, But so he's in
an alley and he sees Champ for the first time,
like dragging his legs around, and they're in this alley
with like these like neon green faces like painted on
the wall, like these murals almost, and it's like these
like spooky faces. And there's no other imagery like that

(27:50):
at any other point in the movie. So it seems
like really random and out of place that those are there,
because like that imagery just doesn't match up with anything
else that's in the movie. There's always a red light
somewhere in the background in every scene, and just like
who who is your production designed what we're probably Joel Schumacher. Yeah,
he's just like, hey, do we have about a bunch

(28:11):
of spotlights and a fog machine. Don't worry, I've got this.
Getting into the discussion of the things that we talked
about on this podcast, obviously have to mention that Julia
Roberts character Dr. Rachel manis a woman in stem but
also she's she's not No. One in this movie as
a doctor, not officially, but you do see here. So um.

(28:32):
The first actual point I wanted to make is that
I would argue that her character plays just as active
as a role as each of her male counterparts. So
she's doing every time they're killing the person and then
bringing them back to life, she's playing an active role
in doing different things, administering different shots of adrenaline, or
I would argue it's morphine, um, you know, resuscitating them

(28:57):
and using the defibrillators which I thought it was defibrillator.
It is a defibrillator, which sounds stupid to me, but
it's well, it does seem like her character, and Kevin
Bacon calls us out in a in a vaguely sexist
but somewhat clear way in one of their scenes. It

(29:18):
does seem like she's like the most respected of the group,
Like she and Kevin Bacon seemed to be the alpha
doctors in the group. Yeah, whereas clear that she's essential
to the operation from moment one because he's like, I
need you to handle the injections in the ivy. So
she plays a crucial role in the story. The problem
is when you add up all of those main five characters,

(29:42):
her role means that only of it is something a
woman is doing, and then eight percent of it is dudes.
It's major tokenism. Yeah, and interestingly, because the reason we're
doing this movie now is because there is a it's
not a remake apparently the people because Nelson's because right,
because Keeper's back, baby, I hope he's got the same hair. Uh.

(30:04):
And there are two female leads in the new one.
It's Ellen Page and Nino Dobrev a k A Vampire
Diaries Lady Lady for you, Big Degrassi. I thought there
might have even been three. There's also Kirscy Clemens. Oh
I didn't know. Okay, So as far as I can
also die from Dirty Dancing Havana Nights, Luna, I know

(30:26):
him as the guy from the Star Wars movie, and
also I think he's better for dirty dancing and yes,
I'm so sorry, and he's also in ech Mama Dumbien.
But he's pretty sure you can see you do see. So,
as far as I can tell, the five main men's

(30:46):
students in the sequel, two of them I think are
men and three of them are women. Hard to say, though,
I couldn't figure out which character is doing which things,
so I might be wrong about that. Either way, it
seems like there will be a little bit more of
a gender balance in this sequel. So hey, but Julia
Roberts character is major league tokenism in in the main ensemble,

(31:09):
it does seem like there are proportional amount of women
at the medical school because we see Julia Roberts talking
with there's another doctor who I think has a name,
which I think is Edna. We see her talking to
Na a couple of times, and then the professor that
keeps busting in and saying, you're all gonna get f

(31:29):
everything's writing on this I haven't to You're in competition
with each other. Rip open your could ever to not
be distracted by the artwork on the wall, don't put
on clubs. No one cuts, but she's you know, she's
she's intracted, doesn't seem like she's doing a particularly good job,

(31:50):
but she's in charge. So there are female figures, but
it's just not accurately reflected. I'm on the IMDb page
right now because I was trying to figure out I
was listening for in the movie, and I wasn't sure
if I missed it. If the old woman that Julia
Roberts talks to a number of times has a name,
she does not. She is credited as terminal woman. Also

(32:15):
feels worth mentioning that eleven different actresses are credited as
Joe's woman from that from that scene up the staircase.
What a horrible way to frame that horrible. Yeah. Well,
the woman in the one of the very early scenes
that Julia Roberts is talking to asking her what her
like near death experience was like, she does not have

(32:35):
a name. But the elderly woman that she talks to
does have a name, and she names her. It's Mrs Amsler.
Is this the woman who dies? Yeah? Oh, she's credited
as terminal weird. Well, she does have calls her. She's like,
you're doing better today, Mrs Amsler something. Yeah, because I
assumed that she must have at some point. Okay, she does, well,
that changes things. The doctor she talks to does have

(32:57):
a name, yes, and she calls her by name as well.
Another thing about rachel Man is that everyone's trying to
suck her. Yeah, maybe not Oliver Platt, but but like
what he turned down the opportunity. No, it would prob
be an honor for him, but earlier it's almost not.
In the movie, he's the only one of the five

(33:17):
who does not. Ever, he does not participate in the
moment love. He's dressed like Harry Potter for the whole movie,
is wearing the same dumbass scarf he says, pussy marauder.
He does a lot of exposition, like he's there for
exposition because he's literally recording major plot points into a
tape recorder for right portion of the movie. Billy Baldwin

(33:39):
tries to pick her up in like the first series. Really,
He's like, are you dating anyone? Just open up and
maybe we can get together for some serious thinking. And
later you're like, oh, she probably knows he's engaged, right, Yeah,
he's engaged. Yeah right, So no wonder she is the
woman that we see him having sex with in the
beginning that he's videotaping. Is that his fiance or not

(34:00):
it's a different woman because he's videotaping it, right, And
then it always says something like I gotta get one
last thing in before I get married, and then flat
whips out pussy Marada. If that's not a scream out band,
I'll be So that happens. And then whenever Nelson's about

(34:20):
to go under for the first time, he asks Julia
Roberts for one last kiss. And then the next morning,
after he wakes up after having flatlined, he's in his bed,
she's taking his pulse and then he says something like, um, god,
you're beautiful, and she sort of like moves away from him,
and she like grabs her and pulls her back, and
he's like, about twenty four hours ago, you didn't think

(34:41):
you'd spend the night here, and she's just like she
said something like you were lucky last night, Nelson, don't
push it, and then walks away. But it's like, what
a weird able to interact with. It seemed like they
had slept together. Yeah, it seems like there was also
a moment after he flatlined when they're like driving to
the bar where she like touches his shoulder. There's I

(35:03):
feel like it's at least implied that there's some sort
of history, but maybe that she doesn't want it to continue,
because then later she sleeps with Kevin Bacon's character, right,
she fries up some Bacon. I think I sanctioned that relationship.
I think that if she's gonna they both have the
best hair, exactly good hair, and they're both like the

(35:24):
most competent of the group, So it makes doctors best hair. Yeah,
it makes sense. She's a bunch of senior superlatives and
they've got all of them. Yeah, med school superlatives. Baby,
do we feel like we understand why the group is
pretty adamant about Julia Robbers not doing it? That's a

(35:45):
good question. Is it because she's a woman and they
feel protective of her? Or that was the implication that
I got. I mean, but again with the exception of
all of her Platt who doesn't want anyone to die
at any point, but it is also very willing to
be around because you know, we need expositions. Sometimes we

(36:06):
gotta shave off minutes on this movie, even though that's
still an hour and fifty five minutes long, but it
feels like they don't want her to go under because
they have a crush on her, and I feel like
Kevin Bacon almost implies that at one point. Yeah, see
with Bacon, I can say I can't even see it
with Key for two because it's like he's still in
love with her. Kevin Bacon is currently in love with her,

(36:27):
and Billy Baldwin's just a fucking I'll just try to
do anything that moves. But also I love that he's like, oh,
I I got I'm a filmmaker. I have a camera,
and it's like, oh yeah, camera, you use to commit crimes.
And he's not even good at that job. Like there's
a million times in the movie where they're like Joe

(36:48):
film and he's like, oh yeah, I was like, why
else are you here? He should take some And his
angles are stupid. We already pointed out, like the way
he captures himself from like bird's eye view, It's like,
that's not who wants to recapture that sex scene. And
he's only filming for like four seconds at a time,
and it's always a slow zoom so they can fade

(37:08):
into a screensaver. But back to what you were talking about.
There's a conversation between a doctor Rachel Mannis and a
doctor A David lab Ratty are not med school student
David Labrashio. Yeah. This is after Billy Baldwin has flatlined.
Julie's like, I want to go next, keep getting pushed

(37:30):
I want to go, and then, like Kevin Bacon, outbids
are basically he's like, I'll go for longer, and she's
kind of match storms out and he catches up with
her and she's like, no one seems to want me
to go under. I don't need your protection. He's like, well,
I just decided that if someone is smart and driven
as you are and incredibly beautiful, that part was just
like oh he was so close. Yeah, and then he

(37:52):
was like He's like it makes the rest of us nervous,
which I think, I don't even know if it's an implication.
It's like pretty straight up being like, we don't want
you to go under. We got to protect you. You're
the woman, you're smartest. Even though she's the one who
keeps being like I want to go because this is
her passion, she's interviewing people to figure out what's happening
after if they have a near death experience. She wants

(38:13):
to know and she wants to get that firsthand experience,
and they're all just like no. And Kevin Bacon even
says she gives the best reason for wanting to do it,
and she totally does, because, like Keifer says a couple
different times, like we're going to be famous, right, I'm
gonna be on sixty minutes. Yeah, yeah, And then she's
I wanna a lot of people close to me have died.

(38:34):
I want to see if they've gone to a better place.
And if you believe in that sort of thing. Sure,
that's a good reason to flatline yesh. I think she
does have the best reason. Yeah, because Keifer. I don't
know that anyone besides Keifer offers a reason. Like Bacon says, well,
I'm the control subject, so I'll go under because I'm
the kind of bully him for being an atheist. He's like, oh, yeah,

(38:56):
does the atheist suddenly believe in God? Well, I think
this is like it's not an Atheast joint, it's a
shoemak or joint. There's a lot of heavenly imagery. Sure,
I guess, or what he would perceives. But anyway, so
that conversation when he's like, oh, you're just so smart
and driven and incredibly beautiful, she gives this look that's like, okay,

(39:20):
I'll take that compliment, and then she changes the subject.
It's just like, no, just off camera, who made more
money and like it was more money spent on paying
Oliver Platt or buying fog machines. I feel like it
was probably very close for this movie. The other main

(39:42):
point I wanted to make about this movie is that
Julia Roberts character is the only one who's like sin
from her past the comes back to haunt her is
something that happened to her rather than something that she
did like the other ones. With Nelson, it's Billy Mahoney.
He killed him accidentally or not probably not accident because

(40:03):
he was bullying him and throwing rocks at him right. Uh.
And then with Kevin Bacon's character, he also bullied a
child Winnie Hicks. Winnie Hicks, who is thriving. Yeah, she's
got a huge house in a big greenhouse. We should
talk about her really. Yeah, that was an interesting scene.
That was the scene that I was a little bit

(40:25):
It was like one of those scenes that I feel
like we'd come across very frequently. I was like, Oh,
this scene could have passed the back Toles has so easily,
but it doesn't. Where her daughters are the whole time
and has a name but never has a line. Maybe
was the daughter's name Sheila? Oh? She She says a
couple different times, Sheilla go away, go away, and trying
to talk to Kevin Bacon, and she'lla never responds, but

(40:47):
she keeps like entering and exiting this scene. But that
I don't know, Like I like that character of of
Winnie Hicks. And but I think that has a lot
to do with the fact that Kevin Bacon's resolution is
really the only one that's actually satisfying of the whole
cat right, because he's the only one. So going back
to what I was saying earlier is that hers is
the only passive one where something happened to her. She

(41:09):
sees her father and we later find out that he
was I guess shooting up Heroin. And then because she's
a lot of the Vietnam that's coming back, man, they
couldn't deal with what happened in that goddamn hell hoole.
It's all your fault and they got to do heroin
or maybe hey, maybe it was morphine, my favorite drug,
all purpose drug, intravenous. You can use morphine for anything.

(41:33):
You can use it to bring you back to the life.
You can shoot up and have a great dish. Anyway,
So he's shooting up heroin, she sees it. I guess
he feels guilty that his daughter witnessed. So he goes
outside and kills himself, Which that doesn't make a whole
lot of sense to me, but maybe clearly the gentleman
had problems. Sure, who knows what happened when he was

(41:55):
in that denang pit of hell. But it's weird that
that that, like the whole sequence I mean, and I
guess you can sort of narratively write it off of like, well,
it's a child's recollection. It's probably not right. And it's
also we only see like Mom in the moment say
it's your fault. That was probably her whole life after that,

(42:15):
being driven in her head by her freaking allan on Mom,
who's just like you did this. Well, the thing with
that is that it means her redemption was passive also,
like she just has to go and watch the scene
unfold a little more and then she just hugs her
dad and then everything's fine. But she gets he because

(42:37):
she's weighed down by this guilt. So he gets to
relieve her of the guilt. She gets to forgive herself
he and and she gets to forgive him, and that's fine.
My point is that the choice was made. She was
the only one who had something happened to her passively.
Is it because she was a woman? Is it a coincidence?
Hard to say, but either way, the choice was made
so that the only female character of the main bunch

(43:00):
had a very passive sin and then redemption. So it's
just sort of perpetuating this idea that like a woman
was feeling guilty well and also like to reduce it
even for the main female character has serious daddy issues
like that is something we've seen a hundred thousand times,
and we don't see anyone else's parents reference out of
the main cast. Thank you for like verbalizing it. I

(43:21):
guess in that way because I was sort of at
the end of the movie, I was like, Julia roberts
storyline is the only one that has a sort of
magical resolution, where key for Billy and Bacon yep did it,
and Billy and Bacon the amazing spinoff series that ran
for eleven seasons afterwards. None of their resolutions, however, satisfying

(43:45):
or unsatisfying, resulted in them receiving any new information. It
was them somehow dealing with information that they already had.
And then where Julie. It's a reveal like it's a
reveal that herd I was a drug definitely which and
again passive. So it's just like I like and it
throws a wrench into the logic of the movie of

(44:08):
you know, like sort of the lesson is like, well,
you've got a tone for the bad things you do
in life. But Julia Rours didn't do anything bad, but
she somehow receives a message from the beyond that you know,
your dad was addicted to heroin, which is what she wanted.
She wanted to make sure her dad was okay, and
that she didn't. She was way down by this guilt

(44:32):
and then she was able to contact him and him
be like, you didn't do anything. It was me who
did it, right? I don't know. Like the spiritual elements
of this movie are kind of all over the place.
In Confused definitely like there's no there's no rhyme or
reason to like. And it's weird because I feel like
Rachel's storyline is the one that really introduces the weird,

(44:53):
like wait, wondering what are their rules here? And it
is also like three of them it's just ship that
happened when they were kids, and so they just they're
still kind of adult children. They can't process what happened.
Where's Billy Baldwin is currently a piece of ship and
he's the only one who's not making it right. Yeah,
he doesn't do anything. He's a rapist and a sex criminal.

(45:14):
And there's that scene where like they all start to
realize that each of them is like being tormented by
the ghosts of their past, and uh, they're turning to
buy the ghost of Christmas present. But Billy Baldwin reveals
he's like, yeah, these women I videotaped them and they
didn't know about it. Women complaining and then all my

(45:35):
sex crimes and Oliver Platt's characters like, oh, you you pervert,
And then Kevin Bacon doesn't even address it. He moves on.
He was like, how about you, Nelson, who are you seeing?
And he's like oh this kid Billy mahoney, but like
he just changes the subject after Billy Baldwin has revealed
that he's a fucking sex criminal and everyone's just like, oh, well,

(45:56):
let's move on. Well that's part of Billy Baldwin thing
where it's like again like a weird dissonance. Like sometimes
it's played as well, yeah, this is his major wrong
as he's wronged all these women then womanizers kind of
what the right. It's never it's never stated or even
implied that what he's doing is a crime, but then
other moments it's like played for humor of like calling

(46:20):
a sex criminal pervert and then moving on to the
next plat point is obviously very irresponsible, and he's he's
sort of I feel like, presented along with Oliver flat
as like the goofear of the character. I mean, you
could argue that the fact that this is what's tormenting
him is the movie's way of saying, like this, he
did a bad thing, but he's hardly punished for it,

(46:42):
and he doesn't do anything to redeem himself or try
to make any amends. He does get broken up with
by his fiance, but he doesn't even seem that upset
about it, like eventually and does Basically, I want his
dick to stop working. That's the only way I think.
So does that make his and the actor stopped working?

(47:08):
That's stroking a cat right now. Yeah, well what does
that mean that there are two resolutions that are passive?
If Billy Baldwin doesn't do anything, he doesn't even really
get a resolution because the other three. Not that he
deserves one, but I'm thinking, but something does happen to him.
He does get dumped, and I'm not saying that that's

(47:29):
a fair punishment. It certainly is not. Um that should
be step one of a series of punishments that end
with him serving jail time. Maybe she went and called
the cops afterwards, Let's hope that port that girl and
they go. The narrative goes out of the way to
be like, she's a student, she's working hard, she's she
you know, she lives far away, and you're like, okay, cool,

(47:50):
she's she seems like a cool lady. And then she
did you know, they do a little bit. I'm pretty
sure she has a name. Yeah that's the bar. Yeah,
it's like, oh, she has a name, and they said
she went to school so good for them. They did
it feminism right. I like Billy Baldwin's character's line when

(48:10):
he's like trying to pick up Rachel because he says
something like, these rumors I've been hearing about you, they're
not true. You're not some cold, frigid woman. I bet
you're very warm and well. And and that's another amazing
blockbuster recurrence of like, oh she's she's got goals and
she's good at something. She must be a fid Oh.

(48:34):
You know what I was gonna say. You know what
dawned on me is the fact that her sin more
or less is um totally passive. She didn't do anything.
Because I feel like the Hollywood logic is you can't
have the female character have done anything wrong because then
the audience would not forgive her and just see her

(48:56):
as a bitch the whole time, you know what I mean. Yeah,
Whereas like the men can't have the redemption, but the
woman it's like, oh, no, fuck her, she fucking did
that to so and so. Because where I feel like
we're socialized to I think that like women have to
be perfect little angels all the time. They can't make mistakes.
And because I remember I did a commercial once and
the actress was playing my wife, and like the director

(49:18):
was like, you, you have to smile throughout the entire scene. Otherwise,
like the clients are like, she's being mean to him, right,
that type of and and it sort of plays to
like a virginal kind of or like whatever, spirtually virginal,
like she's untainted. And it turns out that that's an
amazing point. Yeah, oh god, right, because if anything, it

(49:43):
would have I mean, I'm not saying this in any
other way of like it would have made sense if
she had also bullied like a girl when she was
growing up. There's almost no coming back from that from
a character standpoint of looking at like, oh god, even
with the scene, if it was and Whinnie Hicks, I
bet the Hollywood view would be, like, people still won't

(50:03):
get on her side, even the lovable Julia Roberts, because yeah,
with like with Keeford bullying for killed a kid and
he's it was hard for me to by the end
of this movie, I was not on Keefer's side, but
I feel like you are supposed to be still definitely,
but ultimately it's like he's doing it to himself. He's

(50:24):
literally beating himself up over it, you know. But it's
a delicate thing because if if Winnie Hicks hadn't been
so well off, would we be so quick to forgive
Kevin Bacon, Like if her life had been yeah, you'd
be like, look what you did to her as opposed
to you could even make the argument, well, you instilled
her with character, and you know that she overcame, and

(50:46):
blah blah blah. Everyone in this movie, besides Julia Roberts,
like all the male characters get off too easy, because
even like the the end scene with Billy Mahoney, after
Keefer Sutherland as an adult gets crushed by a tree
comes up and he like smiles, yeah, and he's like, oh,
he forgives I think that why, that's because they were kids.

(51:09):
They were kids. I'm not defending saying it's dumb. I
think that it has to do like where current climate
considered it. It is harder to get on board with
someone who did a horrible thing being forgiven. But the
point I wanted to make about that is that like
keep for bullying Billy Mahoney, Kevin Bacon's character bullying Winnie,

(51:32):
those are like we're socialized. There's Wow, boys will be boys.
Boys are just mean little bullies, okay, and then and
then when they grow up, that's their chance to be like, Okay,
they've they've grown up, they've matured, and now they can
apologize and everything they find. But where it's like, like
you were saying, women, you know, we're socialized to view
women differently, so like there's we just don't we're not

(51:53):
going to be like, oh, girls will be girls. You know,
girls always being schoolyard bullies and oh, it's okay, they'll learn,
they'll they'll be nicer when they're older. Like that's not
how or will they women? It seems like flawed but
still sympathetic female protagonist is a relatively new thing to

(52:15):
be excepted. Like usually the woman with the flaw is
the villain, right as opposed to like where I think,
you know, you could earn past past, which a couple
of years, like there's even like even a few years
after this was my best friend's wedding, and I remember
a lot of people coming away from that movie being
like I don't like Julia Roberts, like she was a

(52:37):
she's the hero quote unquote of the movie. But it's
like a woman doing it leaves a bad taste in
the audience's mouth, especially in this country. You know, watching
movies where they're like, oh, what a bit she was
and poured Cameron Diaz and blah blah blah blah blah,
which is like ridiculous, because for a character to be
interesting and dynamic and multidimensional, they have to have flaws

(52:59):
like which is probably part of why so many female
characters are underwritten and underdeveloped, because they're like, well, I
have a very vague and limited understanding of women as
a male screenwriter. So she's this person who's nice, and
she's nice, and that's all she is. She's but also
she's hot, and if she's not nice, then she's right right,

(53:23):
not hot enough that because then she's because then she's unrelatable.
But if she is, then she's the villain, and then
that's her only quality. Also is that she's mean. That's
not how people are. They don't have just one quality.
I have to and they're under my shirt. We're back
to that again. Oh that. The first thing I wanted

(53:45):
to say was like, it'd be great if they really
made it. Well, who knows what they'll do with the sequel,
But it's like for it to be a true redemption
story because it's like making an amend's isn't just saying
I'm sorry. To make an amend's means to make something right,
like how can I fix this? How can I make
this right? And that's very compelling, I think, And with
you know, the majority of the leads in the New

(54:06):
One being female, that should be quite interesting if they
take that approach of like you know, writing or wrong.
The other thing I was going to say was maybe
for me, the most sexist part of the movie was
the fact that the other three take their shirts off,
but Julie Roberts has to keep her bra on because
she's a lady, and not for sexual reason but for

(54:28):
sure scientific purposes, Like they have to shock her. They
put those pads on her bra it would burst into flames.
Who didn't think of that? Yeah, And it's like there's
like a metal coil in it, Like it would have
been a disaster. They would have blown up the art.

(54:49):
She was not to them in that respect, she couldn't
be bare chest. Um, I mean that might be because
of like probably no contract and like they could have
implied right, oh sure, sure, And I think just like
the legistical blockbuster rating system. I think, well, this wasn't R,

(55:10):
wasn't it. It must have been. It must have been
said fucking little boys murdered, scary forgiving, But you're right
with um. Even Kevin Bacon, who was the only one
who's sort of actively pursues trying to redeem himself. All
he does is to same, sorry, sorry, right, And then

(55:30):
she says like, I forgive you because I'm nice. I'm
a woman and I'm nice. Right. Yeah. Also, and then
we just see like she has a greenhouse. She's fine,
she's killing it. And then she even I'm not in
med school, but I have a greenhouse, and he's like
she likes running in with like stacks of twins. She's like, mom,
where should I put all this money? It will need it,

(55:52):
we don't need it. It was rated R. There you
go restricted. Okay, Well then they couldn't. Then then my
my breast argument falls apart. Let's discuss whether or not
the movie passes the Bechtel test based on the assumption
that the old lady has Mrs Malcolm Powder what's her name?

(56:13):
Mrs Antler is Antler, So then in that case it passes.
In the first scene with two women. The woman she
talks to in that first scene when she's interviewing those people,
that first lady is not named. Oh sorry, I was
referring to the old woman. Is the first scene that
passed for me? Got it even before that, when she's
interviewing the two women, we don't there are two women

(56:35):
there in addition to them. Do we get the younger
one of them is Terry name. Terry's like, I saw
a light in a tunnel in a chariot and it
was beautiful. And she's like, Terry, Terry, you need to
get off your medication. But maybe that one doesn't count
because they were kind of talking about God and as
everyone knows God as a man, let's get into it.

(56:58):
I want this episode to be four hours. Uh. And
then in the scene after that, it passes again because
Julia and Edna and there's like, there's trouble in the
e er and she's like, why are you always asking
her patients about death? And Julie's like, I'm going to
be late for class, thanks edenough. But she's always asking
people about death because of her dad. And her dad's
a man, right, So it all comes back to it

(57:19):
comes back to men and there's men in there, and
there's trouble in the r and men cause all the trouble.
You raise some excellent points. I think all of her
scenes with Mrs Death pass Mrs Death yes, because she's like,
I don't want to be buried on a Saturday. It
caused a hundred and fifty dollars more. Is it bad
that by the end of was like, die already, and

(57:39):
then like when she's dad, I was like good. It
seems like she wanted to be dead for them. When
Julia Robert sister, are you doing much better today? The
woman looks at it like, fuck you, I have wanted
to die. It is incredible though thinking about it, that
she doesn't even like the go to cliche would be
her talking about like her husband. Yeah. I think that

(58:01):
that does end up being a weird character because it
seems like she would be like the classic like old
person character to teach someone right. But it is also
it probably wouldn't work if she was talking about seeing
Edgar again or whatever, because then she is in the
way the character exists in the movie. She is not

(58:22):
looking forward to die, but she's also like I just
want to get it fucking over with well. She even
said she's like I told everyone I loved them, Like
she makes it sound like I did all the stuff
I'm thinking about my burial, like right, and then she
mentions like voices telling her different. And then after she
dies and Julia comes back to discover that, she talks

(58:44):
to Edna again and says, I wanted to tell her
the voices we're wrong. There's nothing beautiful out there, because
this is after rachel name flatlined and like, you can go,
daddy if that was their last conversation. She's like, actually
should be very afraid. What if when Julie Roberts dies

(59:05):
she actually sees the movie Ghost Dad, that's a punishment
in the theater. Why my mom and I were going
to the movies? It was impossible to know. Yeah, the
point though about Flatliners is and then so Kevin Magant

(59:26):
on the Flatliners passes the Bechtel tests, like in four
different scenes, it does. I feel like this is just
another It's not outwardly hateful of women for them, even
though it's often very very misguided. But the problem, or
most of the Bechtel test problem stems from there's only
one female with any significant screen Time, which is every

(59:49):
blockbuster from the beginning of Time. There's a few exceptions,
but well, I mean there are exceptions, but like that's
I wonder if if if you broke it down like
per per person, there's probably more women have lines in
the movie overall than men. It's the tertiary definitely. Like

(01:00:12):
I'll go one further, they all fucked Billy Baldwin, and
there's and there's also like very long scenes in this
movie that are all men, where I feel like the
exchanges we're referencing are generally excited, with the exception of
Julia Roberts and Mrs Death are generally pretty quick scenes. Totally.
I mean, it's not a women's movie. No, it's a
Joel Schumacher movie. It's a dumb movie. With that, let's

(01:00:36):
rate it on our nipple scale, where we rate the
movie based on its portrayal of women on a scale
of zero to five nipples. I'm going to give it
to I think because Rachel Menaces character if you just
isolate her and her only thinking about her and her
portrayal is pretty good, especially just because in the scenes
where they're flatlining each other and then reviving each other,

(01:00:58):
she's doing important things. She's pretty crucial to those scenes
in that process. However, it did really bother me that
hers was the only sin that was completely passive and
she didn't have to actively do anything to try to
redeem herself. I don't know if that choice was deliberate,
but based on our conversation of like, people don't like
female characters when they do bad things because we hate

(01:01:21):
women as a society. Yeah, that was a great point there.
It's very hard to redeem a woman, it is, and
and that and then the fact that it goes into
your own personal experience is significant as well. I think that. Yeah. Yeah,
and then also the fact that they completely the most
le we love letting we love McCarthy ism is what

(01:01:45):
I would do. I'm sorry finishing I forgot I had
one new rule I wanted. Great, great um, but I
also not great that the movie mostly glasses over the
fact that Billy Baldwin's character is a sex criminal, and
they's not addressed when you're a rabist, but it's cute,

(01:02:07):
you're just a little pervert videotaping a partner and not
letting them know. Like that's well, whether whether they know
or extremely illegal. But like what a problem that is
now with the internet, like the you know, shaming ex
girlfriends and all that bullshit. Yeah yeah, an early pioneer

(01:02:29):
revenge that in itself would have been an interesting movie
just exploring him, like videotaping sex without the partner's consent,
and then him and then all the women him because
of it. While we're on. Okay, so this does interesting.
This does to tell into my my rule, which which

(01:02:51):
I've I have thought about before, I don't think I've
ever brought it up before, is the rule of if
you take an attractive actor who is perhaps committing sex
crimes or being a very you know, like using toxic masculinity,
swap him out with Steve Bushemmy, how does the movie change.
It's the new rule. I thought of it after rewatching

(01:03:12):
Drive replays Gosling with bushem and it is a completely
different movie about an unhanded, fucking MANI like, if you
take out a sexy person and put Steve bush Emmy
in the role, in a toxic like male role, the
movie changes a thousand percent. All Billy Baldwin is the character.
All I can picture is like Steve bushemy not having

(01:03:34):
sex and then turning and smiling at the camera. It's
totally different. But I feel like that has to be
that should be applied because it's like, just because Billy
Baldwin has I mean, I think he has a very
weird face, but like because he is attractive, the rules
changed for him in something, or it's cute. I don't know.

(01:03:55):
Maybe it's just me, but it's like he's too good
looking for me to root for, right, Like I get
that mindset. But it's also he's just he's the least
likable character in the movie for me, because I just
think what he's like white Key for the least. But
but I think that, but I feel like he doesn't
even smile the whole movie with Keyfer, You're just like,

(01:04:15):
what the fucking And he's like, you know, he's the
tortured artist, brilliant genius going to explore the blah blah blah,
and then he turns out he killed a kid and
he's a bully. But it's also how does he not
end up completely brain dead after being dead for twelve minutes,
No doubt, I wish he had died. He should, he should,
and then in the sequel he would just be like
a like a vegetable, just like kind of types with

(01:04:37):
a few fingers. And that's how the the new med
school students have to communicate with them. And he's trying
to tell them, don't do this, look at what happened
to me, and they're just like, but we gotta be on.
I think he's telling someone to touch up his blonde roots.
Someone dye this man's hair. But that's a new rule
we can use at our discretion that the Boushemi substitution.

(01:04:59):
I like it. I like it a lot. By the way,
um my two nipples that I've awarded oh yes to
the movie belonged to Oliver Platt, because he does not
Those were yours. Now I'm going to give my a
someone else should rate the movie. I was thinking two
and a half nipples. Julie Roberts character is the smartest

(01:05:21):
of the crew. They keep saying at every point they
can't do it without her. I give my I give
two of them to Julia, and then half one to
the dead Lady big Up, Mrs Death, Mrs Deaf, and
Mrs Death Fire half a withered nipple. I'm going to
give it to as well, for pretty much all the

(01:05:42):
reasons stated I think Matt's point really about about the
female character and needing to be likable. Put Julia roberts
Ark in perspective for me a lot and Robert the
movie of Half of a Nipple, because she is the
most capable, but she's also sort of given the least
dimension because she cannot be seen as unlikable or two flawed. Um,

(01:06:05):
her arc is the least archie. It's like a more
of just a flat line. Hey, uh so I'm going
to give my two amples today Alfred Molina and let
me let me just really quick look up. I have
to assume he was Oliver platfor Let's let me speculate

(01:06:27):
on perhaps what he was doing instead. This is my
favorite part. What was too old to be in med school? No?
He no, because he was so well, I don't know.
Plant was born nineteen sixty, Wily was born fifty three.
But he's a character actor doesn't really matter. Okay, here's
something he might have been doing instead. This is maybe

(01:06:47):
he was shooting Not Without my Daughter, or maybe he
was shooting the movie American Friends, or maybe he was
on the press tour for Rescuers Speaking, in which he
played Italian priest. Or maybe he was just playing one
of his many famous Shakespearean stage roles. Either way, he
was too fucking busy, so they threw platy bone. I

(01:07:10):
forget where I was, but I don't even know if
I met him, but he was just there and we
were like, oh my god, that's so Excitedly, where do
you You don't know, you don't remember where. I really can't.
We might have even had an exchange, but I honestly
can't remember. Well if you, if you remember, let us
know because we're always looking for him. Hey, Matt, thank

(01:07:31):
you so much for being our guests. Yeah, thank you,
thanks for having me. Of course, where can people find
you online? They can go to This is Matt McCarthy
dot com for all your Matt McCarthy needs, or you
can follow me on all forms of social media at
McCarthy redhead, Twitter, Instagram, Snapchat, and uh go to We
watch Wrestling Podcast dot com new episodes every Wednesday at
three am. Excellent. We just got back from New York

(01:07:55):
City celebrating our fourth anniversary. Congratulations, Thank you so much. You.
Oh you should go girls, You should go to women Ladies, Yeah,
you should go to It's so fuzzy marauders. There's just
no there's just no good equivalent to guys. I like gals.

(01:08:18):
It's a little it's a little bit kind of saying,
but I'm into it. Ladies works, but there is something formal. Gentlewoman, gentlewoman,
I prefer what's up, bitch? So you bet you should
check out I just noticed um on the Professional Wrestling
to September seven in Baldwin Park is Bar Wrestling is

(01:08:44):
having their fourth show and I was looking at the
announced lineup. So so far there are more female wrestlers
booked on the show than male wrestlers. Here you go,
and the and the the Queen of inter gender wrestling,
Candace Larey, will be in the house. Excellent. There you
go for all your wrestling fans out there that that
might mean something to you. And I haven't watched wrestling
in this year. I've never seen it. I don't know.

(01:09:08):
I think about wrestling. Are you watching Glow? No? I
intend to, but I have not started yet. Aristotle Loo single.
That's right. Go to check out my my comedy single.
Pro wrestling fan Matt McCarthy on Spotify and iTunes and
all such platforms. Very cool. You can follow us on Twitter, Instagram,

(01:09:30):
at bactol Cast. You can go to our brand spanking
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to help us with some of our production costs. Thank you,
please and thank you. And you can also have a
great day today. You know what, maybe not such a

(01:09:51):
good day to die after all. Perfect by