Frozen with Chris Farren

Jamie and Caitlin are sisters and one of them has ice magic (guess which one), and this week they talk about Disney's Frozen with special guest Chris Farren! 

(This episode contains spoilers)

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the Beck dol Cast. The questions asked if movies
have women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends
and husbands, or do they have individualism the patriarchy zef
in best start changing it with the beck del Cast.
Hello and welcome to the Bectel Cast. My name is
Caitlin Durante. My name is Jamie Loft. I'm trying to trying.

(00:26):
I'm still Caitlin Darante. We have a podcast called the
Becktel Cast in which we discussed the portrayal and representation
of women in cinema through a feminist lens, because, wouldn't
you know it, Hollywood usually Fox up real bad when
it comes to portraying women. Well, I'm struggling taking this
baby Bell cheese out of its waxy container. Did you

(00:48):
ever know that you can't eat the wax? Yeah, if
you think it's food. The first time you have baby
Bell cheese, maybe you're I don't know, out on a
date with someone and they're like, hey, do you want
some baby Bell cheese, and you're like yeah, and then
you just bite into it thinking there's no task to
perform before you can Anyways, Well, that's a good example

(01:12):
of a conversation that I think passed the Bechdel test
and special what gender the date was right, and I
won't now uh so I'm pretty yeah that passed the
Bechdel test. And if you're still curious what that is,
I shall elaborate. Is a test that you apply to

(01:32):
media like movies for example, that requires that two female
characters speak to each other, they have names, and their
conversation cannot be about a man. That is the try
to bring a pussy saga again or pussy saga out
from last week. I think we're extremely pussy staged out.
Just talk to all our listeners out there who are

(01:52):
on the pussy saga that is their life. We wish
you the best in your pussy saga. Yes, I just
wanted to say it. Okay, anyway, it is mad at me.
I don't understand why you're mad so soon. Yeah, it
usually takes me like twenty minutes or so. I know,
I'm getting things stressed and put tearing up my cheese

(02:12):
into small pieces. No, I'm not mad. I'm happy that
you brought up pussy saga, but I did want to
just stay on track and say that the back of
priest is what we use as a just a basis
for a larger conversation. So I say, without much further ado,
we should introduce our guest, who is a wonderful person.

(02:33):
He is a musician. He's a very funny person. Chris Farren. Hi,
Hi guys, thanks for having me, Thanks for coming on
the podcast. Chris, of course has been fully restrained with
but because he is a trusted friend Bungee Cords. Yeah,
thank you. A comfortable restraint. Yeah, I can move a
little bit. Do we have the scary stuff? We have

(02:54):
sharper stuff, but that's for interrupters. A friend of mine, sorry,
just interrupted me, Chris, and you have to go. I
can leave al right. So, Chris, you have brought us
the movie Frozen. Why did you pick this? Tell us
about your history with this movie. Okay, so three years

(03:14):
ago I saw this movie for the first time, and
I just I really something about it really activated my mind,
and I really really liked it, and I became obsessed
with it, no kidding. Yeah, And I had like merch
that had frozen characters on it, Like I sold merch
that said my name. But I also had frozen people

(03:36):
probably illegal or definitely illegal. Well, when we were emailing
us like with your few different movie picks, uh, and
we were sort of deliberating which one to go with,
and we're like, what if, what if we just do Frozen?
And then we like combined your name with it, so
it was like Chris Farrozen like f A R r
Z and that works. It works really well. You're both

(04:00):
on everybody. Um, I should have done that for the shirt,
and then like people who would come to my shows
would start bringing me Frozen swag, So I did. I did, Yeah,
for sure. I mean I still I still love it,
but I am I have a tendency to get like
all in on things and then I'm just like, well

(04:23):
I think it was mostly And I'm sorry to anybody
hearing this who maybe brought me stuff. Do you have
a scloosy right now? No? No, no, no no. I
just I get pretty sick of it because of how
much my own fault. I I like attached it to myself.
My apartment's full of frozen, and I was I like

(04:44):
kind of looked around one day, I was like, I
don't like anything this much, and then I kind of
started cooling off. Cooling off, would you say, and frozen
the temperature of frozen, which is cold, and then keep going,
keep going, keep going, don't stop. It's him stopping, much

(05:06):
like flowing water does when it gets frozen. It stops. Yes, okay,
that's cool, a good job. But again, I say thank
you to anybody who ever brought me any sort of
frozen gift. Yes, here's the thing. We often get tweets,
Facebook messages, different methods of correspondence from fans. Some of

(05:30):
them are men, asking us to not have so many
men on the podcast, I think, and we're we're we
hear you, We're listening to our but sometimes we're ignoring
as well. Something I think the reason that we still
have on male guests because often they are wonderful, and

(05:52):
our fans acknowledge that. But I think it's important to
in a situation like yours, where you loved the movie
Frozen and you brought it to us, like this movie
was intended largely for like young girl audiences like you
wouldn't expect a grown adult man to like really have
this movie resonate with them, So I think it's interesting

(06:14):
and good to include the representation of a grown wow
man like I'm being roasted almost, but it's nice. I
did like how you slowed your spears, slowed the sound

(06:35):
when you're like a full grown who likes Frozen, and
that's good that that exists too. That's how my mom
would talk to me when she thought I was like
doing something fucked up too much, but it wasn't illegal,
you know. She's like, well, I think it's interesting that

(06:55):
you eat dog suit, and I can't tell you know,
love it anyway. What I'm going to say, Chris is
we're very happy you're here, and I'm happy to be
and we like you so much and we're so glad
you brought us the movie Frozen. This is my first
time seeing this movie this morning. I didn't know. And

(07:15):
I love a princess movie and all the problems that
come with it, but I love a princess movie. I
think the reason that I did not see this movie
is because when this movie came out, I was a
substitute teacher in elementary school and it would be all
they would talk about and it was horrible and it
was just total And my mom is a teacher as well,

(07:37):
and so this is my cousin. It was just like
there was a lot of adult fatigue coming off this
movie because it was so popular and in a way
that like few movies are anymore, Like it's like a
movie's just everyone has seen it, to the point where
when I was a substitute Jim teacher brag, I would
could literally coerce the children into I'm just like have

(08:01):
the time with the ball over there, and then at
the end of class, I will play let it go
if you do what I tell you the whole class,
and they would do it. Because kids, there's something is
activated within them when they hear that song. Or was
a couple of years ago, but I think still is
like every child on the planet has seen this movie

(08:22):
and likes it. Yeah, when that song started when I
watched it today, when it started, I was thinking, okay,
this is overplayed this song, and then about halfway through it,
I was like, I love this song song. I was
so excited when she like lets her hair down and
then her outfit changes. It's so cool. It's a very

(08:45):
empowering song for her and moment in the movie. Yeah. Yeah,
I saw the movie for the first time. I don't
think I saw it in the theater, but I think
I saw like right after, like when it came out
on DVD and Cait Loves That's Cool has more DVDs
than anyone I know. Most of them were bought between
the years of like two thousand two and two thousand ten.

(09:09):
Will say that hardly bought any in the past several years.
But I don't even have a DVD damn player. Wow
is that counter the counterculture has ever had? I don't
have a DVD player or a TV v Thank you
so much, I know so Anyway, I saw this movie

(09:33):
shortly after it came out, and it did not quite
resonate with me the same way it did for you.
I was like, Oh, it's cute, it's okay. But um,
I only saw Frozen that one time before rewatching it yesterday,
and I don't think it's a good movie. Like I
think the story is flimsy. I think overall it is

(09:55):
net positive in what messages it sends, especially considering the
intended audience. But like I compared this movie to Mowanna
and Molanna is its characters are so much better. It's
scripted so much tighter, like the songs a lot better,
like the animations a lot better. Molanna does feel like
more of a fully realized movie. There's parts of Frozen

(10:18):
that feel incomplete kind of you. We're just like thrown together.
It's like, why is all off there? Like I get
why he's there, but like it doesn't serve the story.
I hate that he's Yeah, that's a hill I'll die on.
I was arguing in the car over here. I think
that if Josh God is in the movie at all,
it cannot pass the backtel No, if he is on

(10:40):
the roster, it cannot. I don't know why I have
such a visceral hatred of Josh Gad, but I do
want to steal his lunch money and throw him in
a trash, which is just I just want to say
that we on the backtel cast do not endorse bullying,
except as it pretends to Josh. There's always an asterisk
her Herd's not mine. Uh should I do the recap? Yes? Okay.

(11:04):
So Frozen centers around two sisters, one named Anna and
one named Elsa. They are very close as children. Something
about Elsa's that she has these like kind of magical
ice powers where she can conjure up snow and she
can turn anything into ice and also create snowmen who

(11:26):
are anthropomorphized, and she can she just summon josh Kad,
which is more of a curse than anything else. And yeah,
so she has all these powers that are getting stronger
with age and that are like exacerbated when she's feeling feelings,

(11:46):
and while she's like, they're like playing with her magical powers.
Elsa injured, Anna and her parents have to take her
to these true magical things. They're cute, they are fine,
they're made of stones, and they don't get why they're there.
So the troll King is like, we have to erase

(12:07):
all of your memories of Elsa having powers. So then
Elsa kind of goes into seclusion because like she's encouraged
by her family to not use her powers, and she's
becomes like a bit of a shut in. And then
their parents die, and then of course at least both
of them die true subverting them at least both of them,

(12:27):
because subverting the normal princess option, they become total orphans.
They go full orphan. And then a few years later,
Elsa comes of age and she is about to have
the coordination ceremony where she will become queen, and she's
nervous because she's like, what if my powers come through
because no one knows about them, including Anna because her

(12:49):
memory has been erased. And then all these visitors come
for the coronation, including this guy Hans, who Anna falls
in love with immediately and they get engaged. Yes. Then
Anna goes to Elsa and she's like, do you give
us your blessing for us to get married? And also
is like no, that's stupid. And also ice everywhere and

(13:11):
her powers are unleashed and everyone's like, oh my god,
she's a monster. So she runs away and builds an
ice castle on a mountain, as you do. And it's
a beautiful castle. It is cute, stunning back into it,
I would say it's like not very well furnished, but

(13:33):
she can do whatever she wants. I don't even think
she ever sleeps. Maybe not. She doesn't need no lounge furniture. Yeah,
she's just walking around looking at stuff freezing this. Have
you guys heard about the the fan theory that brings
together Tangled and Frozen and Little Mermaid? It is it

(13:55):
brings together a lot of white princesses. So you see
at the core nation scene because I knew to look
for this, even though I've never seen Frozen, Rapunzel is there,
um because you know, how at the end of Tangles
she has like that brown haircut, and but she's there.
You can there's like a screenshot that was like an
intentional Easter egg. But then one fan took it like

(14:18):
all the way and assumed that Anna and Elsa's parents
gotten a boat accident on the way to Rapunzel's wedding
and the boat sank, which is why Rapunzel would feel
like she has to come to the coronation three years
later because the parents died on the way to the wedding. Also,
Tangle came out three years before Frozen, and then Frozen

(14:38):
says three years later, so that there's that connection. Then
the sunken boat that the parents dying is the shipwreck
at the beginning of The Little Mermaid that Aerial explores, Well,
that shipwreck. I mean, we're led to believe that all
of this stuff happens in Frozen in like some Scandinavian culture.

(15:00):
I believe for Nordic some something like that, right, but
whereas but I don't know where they would be going.
I don't know where Rapuzzal takes place, because they would
be somewhere between somewhere and then Ariel, I don't even
know where she is. It's all vaguely Europe. Little Mermaid happens,
I believe in the Caribbean when but there's only white
people there. Well, it's like colonialism that are They're like,

(15:21):
it's like all the white I don't know if they're
French or something, but they're all um, you know, inhabiting
those Caribbean islands. Oh wait, there's no there's maps. No, okay, no,
it tracks Norway Denmark is I believe Little Mermaid Germany. Okay,
those are three. I don't have any information beyond Norway, Denmark, Germany.

(15:45):
Those are the three countries that is written on the
BuzzFeed article The train Journalist. Anyways, that's a fun I mean,
it's a fun idea to entertain. Yeah, of course. Anyway, Okay,
So Elsa builds her eyes castle and in so doing
like it unleashows this internal eternal eternal winter. So all

(16:07):
like the townspeople, they're like no, oh no. So Anna
is like, oh, I have to go to Elsa and
get her back so that she can be my sister
again and get rid of this eternal winter. In so doing,
she meets Christoph, who helps her get up the mountain
and then on a conference Elsa and she's like, no,
you have to stay away from me because you won't

(16:29):
be safe and I'm going to put you in danger,
and then immediately creates a giant snow monster to chase
her away, you know, to keep her safe. A weird,
A weird. There's so many things that happened in this
movie that, like, because it's been four years since it
came out, I was like, this is not what I
thought happened in this movie, Like, it doesn't follow the

(16:50):
storyline I had in my head. There's a lot of
weird ship in Elsa's defense of creating the snow monster.
Why did she do that? She was just she just
made him. And then all the Snowmonster initially did was
just pick him up and just throw him out. And
then Anna threw a snowball at him, which is yeah,
but he which is rude, which is aggressive. Yeah, that's aggressive. Yeah.

(17:15):
I still think that he was in the wrong and
that the snow Monster. Yes, and Elsa was wrong for
creating such an entity that was capable of such evil.
That's misguided yet yeah. Yeah, But she also doesn't seem
to have a lot of She doesn't seem to have
very good control of her powers, which is why she
secludes herself. So in some ways, by them showing up,

(17:38):
she's like, I can't control my powers. I'm not ready.
She's not totally like they're like, no, you just don't
believe in yourself. It's like no, but also she clearly does.
She also can't do she can't. Yeah, I see that anyway.
So they have to return to Aaron del Oh because
in this like interaction that Anna and Elsa have, Elsa
accidentally attacks her with her ice magic again, but this

(18:00):
time in her heart, and they go to Kristof's family
and friends, which are again the Stone Troll people. They're
there whenever anyway. So the Troll King is like, oh,
whenever the ice magic attacks you in the heart, the
only way to fix that is an act of true love.
So they interpret that to mean that Anna needs to

(18:23):
receive love true kiss from her new fiance Hans. So
they rushed back to the castle, but Hans is like, actually,
I'm a murderer. Was here just a plot and conspire
against you to steal the throne? Here to plot? Hey?
When he's actually you think you in love? But I
just I wish I could have said that all the

(18:49):
way through. So then Anna is like dying and Kristof
is like, oh, ship, I have to go back because
I actually love unlike Hans. And then Elsa is like, wait,
I fucked everything up. I almost killed my sister. I
have to go back to Arendel too. So there's this
like confrontation. Hans is about to kill Elsa, and Anna

(19:11):
sacrifices herself to save Elsa, which is the act of
true love that was needed to melt her icy heart
and bring her back to life. Love it. And then
like Hans gets arrested, Anna and Christophe share a kiss,
and then that's pretty much the end of the movie
and they're like, oh my god, it's summer again, and
oh love is what thaws everything. So I just have

(19:33):
to feel love because Elsa had been told not to
feel anything, and now she's like, what Conzila, don't feel exactly,
but if I feel, so everything's fixed and al office
still there. Why doesn't someone take a blowtorch to that thing?
It's awful? The opposite of that, they give him a

(19:56):
snows carry him around and his own little Netflix special
or whatever. The fun. Oh no, wait, there's that thing
that what movie did that play before Coco? There was
a twenty two minute long Disney short that played in
front of Cocoa, and it was the worst thing I've
ever seen in my life and I'm so People were
so upset about that that they stopped showing it. They

(20:16):
were like, there's a half hour Josh gad joint, Like,
no one would pay for that. It has to be
foisted upon you, God, Josh Gada. So that's the story
of Frozen. Thanks for the cat, Thank you so much.
Here's some initial thoughts I have. Okay, well, Jamie, you

(20:36):
mentioned both the parents dying, so subverting the trope, because
most Disney movies, especially ones that are fairy tales, have
like the dead mom trope where it's a princess and
she has no mom but her dad is still around.
This movie, both of her parents are alive, but if
you notice, her mom doesn't say anything. She is there,
but it's like the king who does all the talking

(20:58):
and makes all the decision and the mother I don't
think has a single line, not that I notice, but
it's bizarre because it's like they do a few shots
on her giving a meaningful look, and it's like, why
can't she just say something? Because there it would be
kind of interesting to have introduced that into the dynamic

(21:20):
of the parents of like, I wouldn't think it would
be out of the realm of possibility, for like, obviously
the king has the final word because literal patriarchy. But
to see the queen be like, maybe we shouldn't do this,
Maybe we shouldn't force our daughters to be separate their
whole life, just like a line of that would have
been helpful. But you see her give I think at
one point she gives Anna like this look of like yeah,

(21:41):
it sucks, don't it, But she doesn't say anything. I
was frustrated by that. Yeah, I think there was easily
an opportunity to introduce that sort of dynamic. Cut the
scene where all Off is imagining what summer would be
like for him, Like that doesn't need to be there,
good mouth bit me I have so much Like those

(22:03):
scenes do not advance the story at all. They shouldn't
be there. There should be more time developing, yeah, like
something like the mother character. Instead we have a snowman
on a beach. Hilarious. So glad it's there. I honestly
like the second that song hit. I was like, I
knew this was coming, and I'm fast forwarding this ship.
But yeah, I mean, even from like a story standpoint,

(22:25):
if we're even putting gender aside, like we're not attached
to the parent characters at all because they are sort
of just like mean and misguided and they die and
you feel bad because you like Anna and Elsa, but
not because you like had any attachment to the right,
so you're like, oh, they just sucked. Yeah. So then
a few story beats later, it's Coronation Day, and um,

(22:46):
there's a whole song. There's a whole song in which
Anna sings about how she she's so excited for the
people to come because she's been so lonely, which makes sense,
like she's basically like, how to get rid of most
of the staff and the castle princesses can't stop being
locked in their home, right, Princess under House arrested, So
it makes sense that she's excited. But then the song
basically shifts to the focus is her like, oh my god,

(23:10):
what if I meet the one I'm so excited to
fall him up today? And then so this story is
mostly about her relationship with her sister, but a large
part of her motivation. Of Anna's motivation is falling in
love with and being in a relationship with a man.
I get why they're doing that, because this is still
a fairy tale, and that trope of her whole desire

(23:34):
being to fall in love with a man and to
end up with a man is subverted at the end.
But it's just I don't know, it's just like, well,
why can't we just eliminate that altogether? Yeah, I think
that this is like in a way that Moanna fortunately
doesn't frozen, like kind of tries to have its cake
and eat it too, with a lot of the commentary
it's making with like oh yeah, like Anna realizes she

(23:58):
doesn't mean a man, she still ends up with, but
you know, so it's it's like we're presented with I mean,
I didn't even really have that much of a problem
with the coronation thing because I feel like it was
commented on enough of like, oh, love at first sight
with strangers is uh a scary concept to teach the children, uh,
and don't do that. And then she, you know, we

(24:20):
then see her get to know a guy and then
end up with him, which isn't the worst, but it's
like then Disney still has its way with like one
of the princesses ends up with a guy at the end,
and it's the context is shifted a little, but not
quite enough for it to be like and it was
subverted because it don't it's like like the way there

(24:42):
or not even that much because initially what they said,
it's the concept of the movie was to have a
movie that wasn't about romantic love, which I think they
tried to do, but they but then she still has
cost these characters who end up being loved triangle, right, right, Yeah,
And I feel like the way that they try to

(25:03):
talk that off is like, well but there's two princesses
and only one of them ends up with the guy.
But it's like, no, that's not how that works. That's yeah,
it's frustrating because it's like, it's not that I even
have a problem with someone ending up with someone, but
it's like, then, don't say you're making this commentary if

(25:23):
you're gonna have her end up with a guy at
the end, because then you're not really doing what you
said you're doing. I mean, I can see it where
like their relationship isn't the focus of the story. But
it is enough of a part of it that you
can't ignore it. So yeah, I have kind of mixed
feelings about it. And then the switch that they go

(25:44):
back because they're like, oh, we have to go find
Hans because love like that pushes such a large part
of the story. But then it's like, oh, well, she
realizes that's not what it is. But then it's like, oh,
this is. But then now she's just gonna marry this
reindeer guy who's to her, who negs her constantly, always

(26:06):
telling her to calm down because women be so emotional.
And it's like, dude, you hang out with a reindeer
all your life, your whole life, yeah, your only friend
and trolls. Let's apply let's apply the test there, Steve
Bushey hanging out with a reindeer his whole life, meets
a lady. He's a killer. He's not a love interest,

(26:30):
all right, because the movie opens with like young Christoph
and he's like harvesting ice because he's in the ice business.
That's the worst song, by the way, it's a really
bad song. That's the worst song. That's the worst type
of song in any Why is it in the movie, Like,
why do why do we open off that? That's insane.
I don't understand what they're really doing either. They're just

(26:51):
like mining ice, their ice prospectors. Yeah yeah, where do
they bring it? And they better get it there fast?
Hold right, it'll melt. That's the worst song. Second worst
song is the one where she's getting ready for the party.
I have a mental ranking. Oh yeah, wait, what are
your hot rankings of the song? Okay, I gotta write

(27:13):
this down. Yeah, pull up, pull up the soundtrack, figure
this out, all right. I am genuinely so from memory
that we've got and I don't know the names of him. Okay,
so we got ice, guys. Making ice is the worst song.
Worst and the next worst is getting ready for the
party first time and forever is what it's called. Love

(27:34):
is an open door. Uh snow man, I would not
die in the heat. Third worst, And then we have
the troll song. Oh right, the fixer upper, fixer Upper.
It's actually a pretty good song. Uh so I'm gonna say,
build a snowman. Chris is a professional music right, so

(27:56):
what he says what I say goes, Yes, this is hey,
this is your wheelhouse. Yes, we're letting you fly. Okay,
so worst, second worst worst, and then Bill the Snowman
is fourth but not worst. It's getting good. Now, I
did my ranking really weird, and then I would say
fix her upper fifth worst it was actually pretty good.

(28:19):
And then sixth worst is love his Open Door, which
is actually a very good song, and then seventh worst
just let it go and seven words equals the best
seventh worst. Yeah, there are only seven songs. That's I
have another big issue. Maybe you're forgetting one or two,
but I feel like there's a lot of mini songs

(28:41):
where you're starts his Little Reindeer song in the in
the Shed that's not kindudn't even count. But the ice song,
the ice grunt song, is still worse than that song. Right,
But like the last half hour of the movie, no songs,
which bothers me the trouble. They're too busy, they're too
busy doing stuff, but they should have a song if

(29:05):
that's all. It totally weird. Like, Yeah, I was reading
through and I think that this is kind of like
emblematic of how hard it is to get a cohesive,
cogent story about women told at all, especially on this
high level where it's all I mean, it's like John Lassetter,
which is a whole other thing to unpack because he

(29:26):
was very involved in this. But like, if you read
through the writing process of this movie, it's crazy how
much changes over the course of time. Where it starts
out good sister, evil sister, where Else's pure evil and
she frees it on his heart on purpose. Yeah, like
women on women straight up, like sisters hating each other

(29:48):
for basically no reason. And they brought in a female screenwriter,
Jennifer Lee, who also co directs the movie also wrote
the screenplay for Wreck It ralph Um. But they do
another draft of it, and this time it's like Else'
is less mean, but she still is hurting Anna on
purpose because she's jealous of her, and like, but that's
like how these movies have always been written of, Like

(30:10):
if we're putting in on like you know, a princess
in any stepmother, any second wife, that's like the dynamic.
And when you go through the history of it took
a couple of years for this movie to get written
in its current way, which is still not perfect, but
it's at least you're viewing the sisters as like equals,
you know, instead of like good and bad It's just

(30:33):
crazy how how hard it is to get a story
about two women told that isn't like based around jealousy
or like one hating the other or whatever. So right,
I mean, yeah, this movie subverts at least some of
the tropes of a Disney fairy tale princess story, but
it's still adheres to a lot of them in the

(30:55):
sense that. So, I mean, Anna is the main character,
She's the protector. We see the story from her point
of view. She's the one with the most agency and
bearing on this story. She decides on her own that
she's gonna set off sort of on her own adventure
to go and bring Elsa back so that they can
figure out how to melt this eternal winter. But um

(31:17):
has three male cohorts by the time she gets there,
and like she basically she sets off on her own,
but then almost immediately needs the help of a man,
and that's when we meet Christoph. And then there's that
scene where they're being attacked by wolves, which what is
it with the evil representation of wolves in Disney movies.
I mean, gosh, this wolve there pro wolf agenda, you

(31:41):
know what for our wolf listeners out there, like they
would be upset big wolf community. I didn't know that
they have a lot of wolf fans. I get all
really well with coyotes. Coyote yesterday driving I wait, the
coyote was not driving, was just looking at another dog. See,

(32:03):
they do kind of just look like sick dogs, So
it gets confusing. Yeah, and I think that would offend
our coyote listeners. I've almost I've almost touched a coyote
multiple times and then been like that dog is so sick. Well, anyway,
moving on from wolf like creatures, so the wolves are
attacking them. She's like, I want to help, and Christos like, no,

(32:26):
I don't trust your judgment because you just got engaged
yesterday to a man that you've hardly Yeah. He's so
mean to her, acts so indifferent to her, and then
when that comes up, he's like what that's crazy, and
she's just like what do you care? Right? Yeah, hard
to say, but yeah, he doesn't want her help, but
she helps him anyway and actually ends up saving him
a couple of times. So we see the reverse of

(32:48):
a woman. I don't think there's any time, at least
in that sequence where she is damseled. So it subverts
the trope of her being you know, damseled and needing
to be rescued by a man, because instead she saves him.
But then as the story goes on, more male characters
show up like all Off who man, Yeah, he's male identifying,

(33:12):
you know, voiced by a male identifying actor. So um,
don't bring up Josh Cat again. I will say also
in the notes for the way this movie was written,
because I think that there's a very clear parallel for
this Josh character that drives me crazy. Den't Reely, who
wrote the movie, tried to write all Off out multiple times.

(33:32):
I would not let her do it, because you need
a cute little sidekick, because it makes cute stuffed animals.
This is the same thing that ruined what would have
been a great movie Treasure Planet. There's a robot named
Ben in Treasure Planet that ruins the whole movie. And
you're like, that's a studio note. Why can't they just
get the fucking thing out of there? And they're like,
but bucks, but merchandise is it's treasure Planet. Treasure Planet

(33:55):
is plant actually very steampunk, which and it's funked up
that I love it so much. Steampunk what a bird?
But robot. Yeah, it's like a steampunk reimagining of Treasure Island.
It's really good, except they ruin it in the second
half by adding in a really loud, obnoxious sidekick name Ben.

(34:18):
But anyways, they tried to write out all off. Also,
they originally rejected the ending of this movie multiple times,
like yeah, like the sisters realizing that sisterly love could
be more powerful than a man you had just met
was rejected over and over and over. Oh, we are
not surprised. How did they get it through? Weirdly problematic?

(34:42):
John Lassetter ended up vouching for the ending and said, like,
I've never seen a movie do this before. I think
we should give it a try and test screenings, and
if it doesn't work, we'll go We'll go full head
or oup um. And then and also, this is the
first Disney animated movie ever that co directed by a woman. Wow. Wow,

(35:03):
it took a very long time. It took a hundred years. Well,
this is an example of a story where the two
main characters of Anna and Elsa are women, but pretty
much every other character is a man. Between Christophe and
Hans Spend, the reindeer who I thought was a moose,
for a while, the Duke of Westleton his to like bodyguards,

(35:31):
the troll King. All of those, the only other person
implied to be a woman is a troll. Yes. Also
the only this say is maybe a whole another can
of something. But the only implied like person of color
in the movie is also just a troll. Yeah, that's true.
Oh is it the one who at the very beginning

(35:53):
with young Christophe and Young Spen like hi, and she's like, Oh,
you're cute, I'm taking you. Yeah, And she also is
like has a very gospel singery type voice in the
think it's yeah. And anytime I see that Mickey Mouse
that's in the beginning of this one, it's like from
like nineteen twenties. I was like that sneaky Mouse is racist.

(36:17):
Steamboat Willie, I mean, that's a name that sounds racist
and it is. Well, I wanted to talk about how Yeah,
all the characters in this movie are white. And granted
it takes place in we can assume sometime before like
nineteen or eighteenth century Scandinavia, which is still an extremely

(36:39):
but it's also like a magical right, But Anna and
Elsa are you know, conventionally beautiful by Western standards, they're
very thin. They have like that body type that we
see in almost every Disney princess movie where it's like perfectly,
it's like, you know, proportioned in such a way, you know,
very narrow way, like wide hips, pretty sexualized for you know,

(37:04):
a movie that's directed towards children, more more covered than
you would find most princesses. At least at least they
are dressed weather appropriate, which though most times they aren't
because like Elsa after she turns everything into winter, is
still wearing like the top of her dress is still
mostly like her, isn't it. She does say that I

(37:29):
still never bothered me anyway, Yeah, welcome for my beautiful
singing voice. I would have to imagine she But also
it's like that is a choice. She has more hair
than a human that she was. She has upon her
head more hair than a human than I like an
actual person would have if she if you count the strands,

(37:50):
which but excuse me, Okay, we see these two characters
in this very specific body type that we see and
over again in Disney movies, and there's nothing wrong with
having a body type like this, but when it's pretty
much the only representation of a body type that you
see in these movies that are largely being seen by

(38:12):
young girls. These characters in these movies are influencing these
young audiences. And I think that movies have the responsibility
to show a vast range of body types and skin
colors and everything else. But when they're almost always like
this hour glass, very thin waist, very by Western standards conventionally,

(38:33):
the ideal that is irresponsible and and that goes beyond
just the movie too, because when we're talking about Disney movies,
we're also talking about merchandizing and like, what are studio
executives and people with money comfortable putting out into the
world because kids are I mean, as someone working out
of school. When this fucking movie came out, every kid

(38:56):
had frozen merchandise on the dolls, right, So, and it's
like if you see that same image over and over
and over, like this is the body you're going to see.
Every kid has merchandise with this body type on it,
this skin color, this like yeah, it's just it's there's
no argument that it doesn't funk with you to some extent,
and there's no there's no alternative with this movie with

(39:17):
the type of body that you see. It's just really
the only difference you get is the number of braids. Yeah,
you get the one or you get the two, both
filled with more hair than strands. I'm seeing that's more
than a human. That's a lot. It's a lot of
cig hair. Render that head, hackers, render that head. Render

(39:42):
this head of hair, you dirty little hackers. Oh So,
speaking of the songs, the Fixer Upper song I find
the worst, Yes, but you're not framing them that way.
To second that song again one of the many scenes
in this movie that is unneeded, but it just drives

(40:05):
home the point of this movie's agenda of like still
having on a be in a like romantic relationship or
a potential one, because like he brings her there to
his adopted family of troll people and he's like, hey,
she's dying, and we're like we don't care about that
right now. Actually we're going to sing a song about

(40:27):
how you should love our son, And it's just like,
why is that there? Why is that a focal point.
There's a part in the song where they say like
something about how like how he hides it he's the
honest good, which is a weird line. Yeah, it's just
like he's a real nice guy, but you wouldn't know
it based on the way he treats Yet, you know what,

(40:48):
I'm I'm taking. Fix her Upper is now fourth worst,
and build a Snowman is fifth fifth worst. Okay, I'm
I'm a ky with that switch. I'm okay, Okay. So
then the next story beat after that song is when
the trolls are like, hey, you need an act of

(41:10):
true love to melt this frozen heart. They interpret that
to mean, because you know, they've probably read a bunch
of fairy tales themselves. Everyone involved are like, oh, yeah,
that must mean a true loves kiss. There's an other

(41:30):
attempt at them subverting, right. I think this movie sends
a positive message to its young viewers that rather than
a hetero kiss between a man and a woman, it
was like the familial love between two sisters that saves
the day, because up until that point, most Disney fairy
tales where if there is a curse to be broken,

(41:52):
if there is something that needs to be fixed, it
is often a hetero kiss that saves the day. Right, So,
at least this movie does not go in that direction.
There is a kiss though at the end I think
this is noteworthy because Christoph asks for consent and actually

(42:12):
that's a great point. Yeah, because she replaced his sled
that she sucked up like she said she would, Anna
did fair. She's rich, she's extremely wealthy. That was the
only thing I thought. When she's like, I'll replace it
and everything in it, I was like, well, good for you. Right.
So he's really happy about his new sled and he's like,
oh my god, I'm so happy. I could kiss you,

(42:35):
but I won't, but could I maybe? And then she's like,
you may. She gives him a little peck on the
cheek and then he's like and then they go, Okay,
this sounds my worst. It sounds like you're taking something.

(42:56):
I'm sucking the soul out of everyone I kiss, or
a cartoon character running away really fast, leaving the friend. Yeah.
So I think this movie does send a very positive
message to its young audiences that asking for consent to
kiss someone is actually hot. It's hot and it's cute,

(43:17):
and it should be done more often. Yes. So, uh,
that I think is worth noting. Um. I wanted to
talk a little bit about Else's powers, her cairo kinetic magic.
Off the top of my head Ye, cry Magic who

(43:39):
she only shares this powers with Ice Man from the
X Men and Sub Zero from Mortal Kombat? What about
I forget that and some other things too, But those
are the only ones that Mr Freeze mr himself? Yeah, okay, yes,

(44:01):
who what's the is it? Free Frozen Frozen from The Incredible?
I think it's Frozen Frozen. That's that sounds terrible. Wait
is that really the name of the character. No, I
have no idea. No, I'm pretty sure it is. Yeah,
it is Frozen Frozen. That's well, a lot of characters
that turns out have this power. What is it? It's

(44:24):
of course cryo kinetic magic. Of course, of course it is.
Are all the characters that you mentioned all the other ones?
Are they all? Were they all men? Yes? Sub Zero?
I think this is the only one I'm on the
fence about. But a problem is that the Mortal Kombat
can't find the character's name is Frozen. It's like Zone
but FROZENO. The only black character in that movie is

(44:48):
named Frozen. Yeah, it's not good. That's not good. Well,
I guess we got to do an incredible episode. Well,
can't be right? Sequels coming out? True, sub zeros thing.
He says, You're about to get really cool, says get
over here. One of my favorite bad movies Jack Frost.
Oh yeah, I recently just watched that. Very recently. Movies

(45:11):
Crazy Christmas time, I watched it Wait this Christmas two
thousand seventeen, The Michael Keaton one, Who Made You? Who
Made You Want It? I think it might have been
self inflicted that because doesn't he's like a bad dad
who died. He's like a rocking blues magician and like

(45:32):
a cover band. Yeah, well, they seems like they're gonna
get signed. I don't know if they're cover band, but
they might as well be. He died. He died and
then comes back as a terrifying anthropomorphic snowman that has
to repair his relationship with his children. It's horrible. It's
really scary, very scary, and it works so well. That's
the scariest part of all. So in movies, when women

(45:56):
are given powers, they are usually either an evil witch
or a supervillain. Examples include The Wicked Witch of the West, Ursula,
the Evil Queen from Snow White, Melissa Mellifus, Melissa Cassa.
It sells that you really feel about melissas a witch.

(46:21):
What I meant to say is I have loved that
new element of Taxbo cast Laws believes Melissa McCarthy is
pure evil. Um, but who I actually think is evil
is Mallificent. There we go from Sleeping Beauty the Ice Queen,
which from the Len the Witch and the Wardrobe mystique

(46:44):
from X Men, we've got Poison Ivy, where there's a
whole laundry list of others. So it's either that or
if a woman has given powers and movies she's perceived
as being like too dangerous and that she should not
harness these powers and that or that she just shouldn't
like use them in general. Um, we see this from
like Rogue an x Men. I feel like this is
a thing in Wanda from The Avengers Princess Leia, we

(47:07):
don't even know she has force powers pretty much until
like five movies into the franchise. The Love Fairy and
Pussy Saga is U doesn't use her powers right away,
but then once she's liberated. Another great example, she's just
naming a lot of lores. Sure, did you beat the game?
It's impossible to beat the game. It actually ends up

(47:29):
kind of becoming this existential nightmare where you're said that
is that why it says you won't last five minutes,
you're giving you can last ten hours and not they
give you a goal. And then I achieved the goal
and there was nowhere no one acknowledged that I achieved
the goal, and they're like, you should give all your
points and open a movie theater. And it ends up
being this weird real estate scam. It's one that probably

(47:53):
plays it for ten hours. They know they don't expect
you to get that far. I was completely horny neutral
or played for ten straight hours, and I was like,
I'm ready to rescue the Poets Safo, which was the
goal said at the beginning of the game. And then
I went to the love Fairy who had given me
the phone where I get all the anti sex after

(48:15):
I solve every puzzle. It's my reward, is my anti sex.
And I returned the phone. I say, here, here's the
come of five women. As I told you, i'd bring
back Release the Poets Afo, and she says, do you
want to open a movie theater and that you can't,
and then you just they drop it. They don't expect
you to get that faro rude anyways with women having powers.

(48:39):
When men have powers in movies, it's like makes them
strong and powerful. There are some exceptions and sometimes yes,
like they have to keep them a secret from their
family or from whatever. But by and large, a man
having powers in movies means he's a superhero or he's
going to save the day and he's just strong and powerful,

(49:01):
or even if he's like a villain, like he's still crafty, cunning,
like wow, like look, how cool. So this applies to
this movie Frozen because she has given this like awesome power.
We don't really understand where it comes from or why
this happens, but there's you know, it's a magical world
with stone troll people and snowmen that can come to life.
So sure those are the rules of the world, and

(49:24):
we just suspend our disbelief. I guess world Josh Gad
can exist freely, including ours I have a problem with.
But so she's given powers, but the whole time she
is encouraged not to use them or that it's going
to be too dangerous, and it's just like this, Uh,

(49:44):
I feel like if a little boy discovered that he
had these same powers his parents in whatever movie it
was would be like, Wow, these are cool. You have
to harness these and learn how to like channel them
and make yourself awesome. Well, I think that the story
at least gives you a reason why they try to
suppress her powers, which is that she hurts her sister.
I think that the punishment that they come up with,

(50:05):
given that they seem to have unlimited means, is a
little harsh and they could have maybe consulted another third part.
But I guess the trolls were like that stupid. Yeah,
that's like I thought, was that I don't understand why
they had to be keep them separated, and that also like, realistically,
we're supposed to believe they actually remained separate that whole time,

(50:27):
even when they were dead away, right when their parents
were right I'm like, why couldn't you just hang out now,
like their funeral they didn't go to that, or was
the whole funeral just putting that piece of black cloth
over there, draped over there, drap drape Malfoy that thing

(50:48):
up and send it. But they Um, Oh, what I
was gonna say is I feel like her powers being
suppressed is obviously. I feel like the movie at least
makes it clear that they're doing the wrong thing by
doing that, and that eventually, by the end of the movie,
it is changed and she is able to recognize that

(51:08):
her powers do have value and it's just a matter
of how she uses them. But I had a problem
with that. I don't think this happens with male characters
at least as often, and I don't watch movies where
people have superpowers very much because I'm a fucking adult,
so I don't really know. But the fact that else's
powers every time it goes wrong is because it's her

(51:30):
powers are sort of dictated by her emotions is something
that I found a little bit annoying of, like, well,
she just can't get her emotions under control, which is
a common criticism of women. So that's why her powers
keep hurting people, because like, her emotions aren't in check.
That's not that's not something you hear about when a
guy's like, I mean, there's a million montages of a

(51:52):
man honing his powers, but it's not quite as put
upon is like, well, you're you're like emotions are an issue. Yeah.
I feel like that's like a fairy tale version of saying,
like women be crazy, right, A little bit yeah, so
that was my issh. And yeah, the movie does make
an attempt to say, like, oh, this was the wrong

(52:13):
way to go about this because her suppressing those emotions
that apparently like exacerbate her ice powers. I'm sorry her
cryoecticut edgy magic. But still it's like by the end,
she like she hones her powers by keeping her emotions
more in check, right, Like, I feel like that's not

(52:35):
fully well, no, you could argue that to me. It's
she realizes that love and like letting people in is
the thing that allows her to contros or that at
least allows her to unfreeze the Eternal Winter and to
like saw it all out. But that's also it's a
horrible lesson. If you're vulnerable, you'll just get gaslighted by

(52:59):
a ute Hubert. That's what happens when you're vulnerable with yourself. Well,
the problem is, I think, I mean, that's one of
the reasons I don't think this movie is very good
or very well written. Is it. The rules of her
powers and just the world building in general is not
very good and it leads to some story problems and
stuff like that. But um, yeah, at least the movie,

(53:20):
as we've discussed before subverts enough of the like Disney
fairytale tropes that it isn't like another replica of some
of the more problematic ones that we've talked about, like
snow White. Um, so, I mean, Present is considerably less
problematic than most Princess movies, but it's still that does

(53:41):
not mean it does a good job. That is just
such a low bar to clear. Perhaps all of these
problems will be fixed in Frozen two November. Does that
really happen? Is that your plug? Yeah, that's my plug.
I'd like to plug Present it really needs some big
marketing boost. Yeah, I hope so, I mean I would

(54:03):
be interested in because I mean, you think between late
and now there has been a pretty significant cultural shift
that I would hope it'd be reflected in the movie.
But I don't know. And speaking okay, so I a
lot of I remember at the time of this coming out,
a lot of the conversation around this movie was that

(54:24):
some people felt and it is certainly not explicitly stated
by the movie in any way and carefully done to
not state that that Elsa is coded queer. That's something
I've heard over and over again. It's like, especially like
even a couple of years ago. Disney would never like

(54:45):
Disney notoriously codes characters queer but as bad as queer villains,
like that is their bread and butter, and then this way.
I think it's interesting that many people read Elsa as
coded queer. I don't disagree with it. I certainly see
what they're saying, but I feel like part of the
reason that that is and it is ultimately a net

(55:06):
positive thing, I think for for kids seeing the movie.
But I think that the reason that happened is because
she started as a villain. In the first draft of
the character, she was a queer villain character. They softened
her to the point where she was an equally likable
character to the protagonist. But like that element of the character,
I think, like to some extent state intact because I

(55:30):
don't know, I feel like the way that Disney codes
characters as queer besides evil is alone. Well, that's what
I was going to ask, is what is the reason
that people were perceiving her or feeling that she was
coded as being queer. Is it only because she doesn't
have a love interest. I think that that's part of

(55:51):
the reason. I'd have to go I'd have to go
deep into, Like I think that there's a number of
ways to come at it. I know that for a
lot of people, I mean, just based on the research
he did. When the movie came out, people interpreted her
being isolated and not pursuing any love interest in the
movie as a possible way of queer cutting, which is

(56:14):
kind of like depressing when you think about it. Is like,
you know, a queer character it has to be alone,
and uh, straight character has to end up with someone
like it just the rules of that world become very
fun very quickly, and strate characters in this movie is
an example. There's often more than one person pursuing her

(56:36):
because she's got I mean, Hans ends up being a
bad guy who's not actually a love interest of hers,
but she doesn't know that until towards the end. As
far as she's concerned, he loves her and he's her fiance.
And then meanwhile, like Christoph is like the scrappy, mean
person who is also secretly developing a crush on her,

(56:56):
but you could never tell her that because she's too
mean or whatever. But yeah, that I'd be interested to
learn more about that. There was do you remember, though,
there was like that big movement on Twitter. I remember
this just from being a frequent tweeter. There was like
brag sorry, but there was like hashtag give Elsa a girlfriend,

(57:17):
Like were very deep into viewing Elsa as like a
positive queer role model, which again I think is like
a net positive move, but also that you have to
dig through so many layers of creating meaning where the
movie isn't necessarily giving you much to go on. To
find a queer character in a movie for kids is

(57:38):
like frustrating. Wasn't the most recent Beauty and the Beast
the first time they had Josh, which is why I
don't hate him no, because first of all, that like
a queer moment in Beauty and the Beast is total
bullshit and Jock Gad is horrible. But getting back to
queer undertones and Frozen, I'm seeing and and this makes sense.

(58:01):
I again, it's like open to interpretation and everyone's going
to view this movie differently. I viewed Else's suppression of
her powers as more of like a femininity thing of like, here,
you're awesome, but keep it hidden so that you are
able to move through the world and you know, like,
don't become too powerful. I viewed that just seeing it

(58:22):
today is like a feminine thing, but a lot of
people view that as the experience of being in the
closet um, so that creates else's arc as like hiding
herself away from the world, isolating herself because she's not
comfortable with herself, she doesn't know how to be around
other people. And I guess that that is too many
viewers read as the experience of being in the closet

(58:43):
and then going back into the world as your authentic
self looking at it through that lens. Yeah, that's really
interesting because she does have that let it go very
empowering song slash moment the seventh seventh, So that's you
could maybe argue is like a parallel to her coming out.

(59:04):
Part of me is like, I guess that's kind of
cool that they if that was like their idea to
kind of leave it open to interpretations, so many different
people could insert themselves into the experience and put their
own experience into it. But I it would be way
more cool if there was a person that was like
explicitly right, because I don't think a lot of kids

(59:27):
are like watching this and writing that you know they're
not and not to that's again the intended audience of
this movie. So for children's movies, things like that, I
feel like do have to be more explicit because they're
not going to get I agree. I just think it
was interesting that it had such a profound yeah infect
and then also the inverse of that being that churches

(59:50):
got mad that also didn't have a boyfriend. Oh and
really and also if you that as queer cutting of
not having a boyfriend equals you are gay, bad news
for me in high school. So interesting. Yeah, So that
is I assumed, I've because I was aware of that
going into this and had a few notes to that.

(01:00:11):
For some reason, I didn't remember that happening at all,
but I am not as frequently tweeter, so maybe that's
why there's I don't know. Yeah, I thought that was interesting,
and that's something I'm very interested to see if they
do anything within Frozen two, because it was such a
big response and it's like, are they going to do
something good? Yeah, because I can't imagine that Disney would

(01:00:31):
commit to her being alone again for a whole movie, right,
but if they give her a boyfriend, people will be yeah, exactly, Yeah, definitely,
So let's see Jennifer Lee. I mean, I'm pretty down
for Jennifer Lee the writer. I don't know if she's
writing Frozen two. I hope she is. She is, because
I don't know she's at least directing it, directing it again.

(01:00:55):
And there was a There's been a few like little
Frozen things like Olaf's Frozen Adventure. I didn't see that.
There's something called Frozen Fever that I hated, like a paradox. Yeah,
when I watched it, it made me realize that Frozen
has been for kids all along, and I was like
the second this is a cartoon for children, but it's

(01:01:18):
also something that anyone, if any age, can enjoy. Yeah,
and I did, if it appeals to them personally, I
much prefer mo Wanna. Zotopia was great. They sing in Zootopia.
They don't Well. Something we see in Frozen that we
don't see in mo Wanna as much is that is

(01:01:41):
I dam and sell. I think that's really were is
one big thing. Mo Wanna, How's going for? It? Is
a It's a bedroom movie. Be Josh Gad has nothing
not anywhere near it, which is great Moanna too, though
I know they recast Josh. It's actually people are freaking out.

(01:02:04):
That job cad Isa, which is what the poster says,
Josh gad is He's wanted. They jumped the shark. Melana
has an evil twin. It's Josh. It's insane. He appears
as himself a real man, not even jes Josh cad

(01:02:27):
basically wearing Steve Wozniak outfit. It's horrible. But the theme
of two strongly bonded women in a Disney movie who
are not constantly being pitted against each other. We see
mo Wana has a close connection with her family. Um,
but I did like seeing Elsa and like, I hadn't
seen a relationship like that in a kid's movie before,

(01:02:51):
of like a strong familial bond between two characters that
are very different that and I mean we already sort
of unpacked the visual aspect of it. That's a problem.
But like, I don't know, I thought it was really nice.
And I even tear it up once or twice because
I'm very fragile. But yeah, like the theme of like

(01:03:14):
sisterly love and two strongly bonded women who have uh
sordid history and that one almost killed the other twice.
Uh it happens, But they still are able to resolve
their differences, and I don't know, just like someone you're
close with when you're young and then you grow apart
because whatever your parents are on a bone and saying so,

(01:03:34):
then you have to learn to love each other again
as adults. Like that. It was nice. That is nice.
I think one of the problems with it, though, is
that we don't see them on screen together that much,
because either Elsa is in seclusion or she just runs
away and builds her ice palace. Like if you counted
up the total amount of time that they are on
screen together interacting, I imagine that it's like eight minutes

(01:03:59):
or less. Like it's a very small part. What if
they get to know each other, I don't even really
like each other, that would be a lot. Frozen two
barely have hung out with each other. Frozen two they
like each other's posts on Instagram. But I've given that
kind of radio I I which is again another thing
that I don't know. I don't know. I'm standing out

(01:04:20):
for Jennifer Lee right now because I'm reading through all
the stuff she pushed for in the movie that they
were just like funk Off. Because she was pushing for
them to be together more in the movie. She was
also pushing for them to know each other after their
parents died, and the powers that be were like, no,
we want them apart for the whole movie, which we
can interpret as a way to I mean, there's I guess,

(01:04:41):
sort of a narrative reason to do that, but by
the end, I think there's no excuse for them to
be apart for so long, so you can shoehorn in
all your bullshit, Josh Gatz like, keeping the two interesting
female leads apart just gives them the opportunity to sprinkle
in all these other dudes. Right. Yeah. Should we figure
out whether or not this movie passes the Buchtel It

(01:05:04):
does really early on Elsa and Anna as children. Anna
runs into the room, She's like, wake up, let's play.
But then she says, do you want to build a
snow man? Yeah? That's what I was wondering about. Is
it passed the test? If they're talking about snowman, how
come it's never snow woman? How Come no one is
ever like, let's go outside and build a snow woman

(01:05:24):
or snow gender queer person. That's cool. My brother and
I made a snow Tony Collette one year we were
a Tony Collette household. Sure, yeah, yeah, she's very talented.
We all felt that. Um So that scene, I think
there's at least a two one exchange there. Later on,

(01:05:46):
when they're both adults at the coronation ceremony, Elsa and
Anna are like, oh my god, this is what a
party looks like. And then we cut to a bunch
of people standing around and not really enjoying themselves. Uh.
And then I have had that thought a lot though.
And then they tell each other they look beautiful, and

(01:06:06):
then they smell chocolate together, and then Anna's like, I
wish it could be like this forever and ELS's like,
it can't because of my powers that you don't know about.
I think that's pretty much the end of that conversation.
But I would say that by and large, like passes
the whole way through. I don't think there's any mention
of any men they're at all. They're not in that
many scenes together. You think it would pass more frequently,

(01:06:28):
but it really doesn't. I think like the next time
is when Anna is like, hey, will you give your
blessing for me to marry Hans and rightfully so Else's like, no,
but that does not pass the buck to test because
they're talking about Hans. Later though, when Anna goes to
Elsa's ice palace, that passes because they're just like, hey,

(01:06:49):
come back to Arandelle and almost yeah. After that, it's
probably not till the very end when they like reunite.
There's opportunities that were missed right and left. If we
had given perhaps I will see a scene that I
think would have made a lot of sense and would
have worked. Would have been a scene between either the

(01:07:09):
mother and Anna or the mother and Elsa. It would
have helped the story and that would have been away
to shoehorn it and if we have to have a
fucking snowman, make it not be Josh Gad, I was
just gonna say evil, which Caitlin's mortal enemy, Melissa McCarthy.

(01:07:31):
Like Melissa McCarthy, I just want everyone to know, it's crazy,
how evil you think Melissa McCarthys And we all disagree.
A dark board in the studio with Melissa McCarthy face
on it. It's so weird because it's like she's so
talented and she really like knew when to steal a
scene in Gilmore Girls and when to hang back. She's

(01:07:51):
a giving performer. I think we should give her more credit.
Kalen also like the main stone troll person could have
in a woman and she could have talked to the moose,
the rein dare content, whatever it was. Um, yeah, there
were plenty of opportunities for this movie the pass it

(01:08:12):
for but it does definitely Yeah. Shall we rate on
our nipple scale zero to five nipples based on its
portrayal of women? This is another tough one where like
I said, I think it's net positive in terms of
the message that it sends, particularly to its young audience,
and that it shows women being active in the story.

(01:08:36):
It shows them having agency and making choices that have
bearing on the story. They are for the most part,
not damseled in any way the way that a lot
of Disney princesses are for most of the stories that
they're in. I think that having it not be a
hetero love kiss that saves the day, but instead being
a active between sisters right the it solves the conflict

(01:09:01):
that asking for consent to kiss her at the end
I really really enjoyed. So I think there is a
lot of good things to be taken away, but the
fact that there's still several love stories that are feel
kind of shoehorned in there that don't really need to
be there. The fact that we don't see Anna and
Elsa interacting more, the fact that they're you know, body

(01:09:24):
types are the same body type we see over and
over again in Disney Princess movies and in almost every
movie in general. I think that there's still work to
be done, So hopefully in Frozen two this year, next
number this year, which is next year. Yeah, so I'm

(01:09:47):
gonna give it a three and a half nipples, maybe four,
I don't know, let's say three point seven five. Okay, wow? First,
uh yeah, three point seven five. I'll give to to Anna,
one to Elsa, the three fourth nipple to the mom

(01:10:08):
who didn't say a damn word in the entire movie
and then died tragically in a boat accident, not unlike
most of the people on Titanic. True, yeah, very true.
What if, oh my god, what if Elsa created the
icebergs in tit She was so emotional. Women are two emotional,
and it sinks the Titanic eventually? Oh my god. Bad. Yeah,

(01:10:33):
she probably made a glacier in her like you know,
Fury her flurry fury. Yea it is, and then it
breaks off centuries later floats into the Atlantic Ocean. The
Titanic hits it. That's what happened. That's canon. Okay, Anyway,
who's next, I'm going to give it. I was going

(01:10:55):
to go two and a half. I think I'll go three.
It frustrates me when movies like this because I liked
this movie. There's so much not positive that you just
just described. I also think it's very significant that this
is the first Disney animated movie that is at least
partially directed by a woman, written entirely by a woman.
But now I'm going back to two and a half
because because there are so many missed opportunities, and it

(01:11:17):
really frustrates me when a movie tries to capitalize on
how forward thinking it is when it still features so
many themes and through lines that are regressive or at
least maintaining a status quo that has existed in this
these franchises for years and years. So mostly I mean
two and a half based on cheer missed potential of

(01:11:39):
what this movie could have been. I totally agree with
what you're saying with reinforcing the like conventional Western beauty
standard body image on such a high level, shoehorning in
the love story was obnoxious and not totally necessary and
just the missed opportunity for women to be present in

(01:12:00):
this story that was actively thwarted by the movie itself
by keeping women away from each other. Because their scenes
together I really love and I think that they're like
so nice and special and yeah, taking the voice from
the mom, why do that? Like, why is that necessary?
I don't know. It sucks because it's a good movie.

(01:12:22):
I think net positive. And you know, girls who are
in school now and this is their movie are way
better off than we were where we're like, oh, the
girl who funck a dog is my hero. Uh, that's
a belle from beauty. And the girl who french the
dog is my is my favorite girl. Um, and you're

(01:12:46):
always French with coyotes. Yeah, I'm from approaching coyotes on
the street thinking conflating it with true love. And and
we're even better off than our generation work if it
was like growing up, Yeah, they're like fall asleep. Maybe
someone will show up without checking. It does demonstrate progress.

(01:13:11):
Progress is very slow though that's not an excuse, but
it tends to be extremely slow, but there are so
many and and just like reading about how the writer
director of this movie was trying to push it forward
and was actively thwarted by the system she was working
within sucks to I mean, I'm glad she was pushing,
and I think that this movie would have sucked if

(01:13:33):
she wasn't pushing, really pushing. So it's like progress but
not enough progress. I hate that it's still like princesses
will sooner French a dog than be queer. That's like crazy.
Um so two and a half from me one on
a one to Elsa and I'm given one to Gadable,

(01:13:54):
given one to gad Listen, he needs a win from
me personally that he's very wealthy and doing games. Yeah,
I think he spent more time talking about how much
you hate them than Anna and Elsa appear on screen
together in the movie Frienz Problem. The only thing that
I feel more strongly than loving women is hating what if? Okay,

(01:14:17):
and also Alfred Molina as one of any female identifying
person or also this movie I Have to Go Back
does not pass it back to al test because Josh appears. Okay,
that's your opinion. I do not stand new hard rule.

(01:14:39):
Does Josh God appear in the movie, Chris, Okay, I
wrote down three three nipples, three les, a lot of
the stuff about like the mom not speaking. That's pretty crazy.
How there are literally only two or three potentially women
in the movie, and one of them dies almost immediately,

(01:14:59):
and one of them is a role whose name we
never know and we don't know anything about her. Yeah.
I mean, I think if it was like on a
scale of like all the Disney movies, then it would
be like higher than three. Because this is until Mowanna,
which we gave I think five nipples across the board.
We were like, coming back. It is a very good movie. Yeah,

(01:15:23):
that's great. Yeah, and then uh, of course I have
my issues with the song in the song. Of course
you've recopied your list well, just to make it clear
for myself. So just to clarify, the seventh worst song
is let It Go, which is You're also the best,
but seventh worst today it's the best, right. Number six

(01:15:44):
worst is Love as an Open Door. It's just a
nice song. Number five I wish to build a Snowman, right, Okay, Yeah,
I wish to number four fix her upper the Trolls
song I see I like the trolls. I know that
they're just And are they the trolls? Never got the

(01:16:04):
answer no, because they look like the trolls. But those
trolls aren't made of stone. That's just like a weird
if you saw a cartman but he was made of stone.
You say, cart cartman, cartman? And can we help him? Yeah?
And is that legal? Leave Cartman and stone? But also,

(01:16:25):
I can't watch South Park anymore because Matt Stone and
Trey Parker they gave Josh Cadd his big break, but
the Mormons they did actually don't funk with Cartman anymore
because it's got a little bit too close to Josh
Cad being a relevant person. Yeah, so sorry, he could
clay him in the live action movie One day. Were

(01:16:46):
given the list, anyway, where was I? I'll start from
the beginning. Number seven again, Let it Go loves Novador,
Bill the Snowman, fix her up? Okay for third worst,
I'm a Stoneman, he Won't kill Me. Number two Getting
Ready for the Party is the second worst. Number one
Ice Guys Making Nice is the worst song in the movie.

(01:17:06):
Guys Making Nice is a terrible song, and no and
it's the only song no women appear in. Oh sure,
well we don't know how that's true. Well, alright, so
three nipples and I give all three to whatever interesting
character will be revealed in the second Frozen that's coming out.

(01:17:29):
The three nipples character we haven't There's gotta be something
something either creepy, scary, bad, or hot the four tenants
of a movie. Yeah, that's like the National Honor Society.
Are you Are you over the creepy, scary, bad, or

(01:17:54):
hot you have to be to get in tonight? Well
I'm back to being mad. Okay, Chris, thank you so
much for Thank you so much for having me. We
had so much fun talking about Frozen. Where can people
find you online? Follow you to Hot Guy with Glasses

(01:18:16):
dot com is my website or Chris Farren dot com.
Both will send you to the same place and on
Twitter Chris Farren, Instagram, Chris Farren Facebook, Chris Farren. Also
check out Chris's music. Yes, oh I'm a musician. Well,
thanks again so much for being here. You can follow
the becktel Cast on social media at becktel Cast. You

(01:18:38):
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(01:19:00):
our Matreon because I'll get you too bonus episodes. Anyway, Well,
thanks for listening and we'll see you next time. Bye,