Happiest Season with Jes Tom

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the Bell Cast, the questions asked if movies have
women in um, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands?
Or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef invest start
changing it with the beck Del Cast. Hello, and welcome
to the Bechdel Cast. My name is Jamie Loftus. My
name is Caitlin Durante and uh, today we're covering a

(00:24):
movie that many call Happiest Season, but I like to
call turn the Car around now. Uh, but first we
should tell you what our podcast is. Caitlyn, what's our podcast?
I forget it? Who remembers? Um? Uh? This is the
Bechtel Cast, which uh is named after the Bechdel Test.

(00:46):
But the show, if you've been listening, has increasingly less
and less to do with it. But it is what
we name the show. We talked about movies through an
intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechtel test simply as a
jumping off point. A Bectel test, of course, is a
media metric created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechtel, sometimes called

(01:06):
the Becktel Wallace Test, in which here are the criteria. Ready, everyone, Yeah,
you're this is school now? Yes? Uh? Two people of
any marginalized gender have to have names, they have to
speak to each other about something other than a man.

(01:26):
On our metric is it has to be at least
a two line exchange of dialogue. I actually think this
movie in particular is kind of like uniquely suited to
why the Bechdel Test originally existed, because it was invented
in the context of queer representation as well, which never
comes up in the conversation about it. It just kind
of becomes like blanket uh women, Right, But I feel

(01:50):
like this, this movie is kind of a little closer
to what the actual like comic strip that the test
is pulled from, is absolutely trying to get at. So yes,
so good job movie, good job movie. It only with
the Betel tests been around for what thirty years, and
and this is a uniquely safed movie for it. Yeah, yeah,

(02:10):
so we're doing We're This was a very very very
very very popularly requested movie. I feel like the second
this movie came out on Hulu, or even maybe the
second the trailer dropped, it was just like everyone added
as of like when is it going to happen? And
so we're doing it? And also here we were just
watching it anyways, Yeah, for sure. Let's introduce our guests. Uh.

(02:34):
They are featured in the New York Times. They are
in Love Life on HBO Max. It's just Tom. Hi. Welcome,
welcome for being here, Thanks for having me. I'm very,
very excited to get into this one with you. This
movie has been polarizing. It has probably the most polarizing

(02:57):
issue is Happiest Season on Hulu when people look back
to yeah, that's this is all people will remember about, Like,
what's the one thing that happened in the year Happiest
this course around Happiest Season. Jess, what is your what
is your I guess normally we ask what is your

(03:19):
history with this movie? But it's been out for less
than a month, so we're just gonna do general thoughts
slash experiences with this movie so far. What are your
general experiences and thoughts around this movie? Well? I actually
feel like I want to subvert the genre here and
ask you guys a question, okay, sort of to start

(03:39):
me off. And I recognize the irony of asking this
question in a movie that's about people being put on
spot and made to come out when they're not ready
to do it yet, But so I I don't know
either of you guys in real life. Yeah, um, so
what's your guys to steal? Are you? Are you queer?
Are you were on the spectrum? Do you fall all

(04:01):
who I'm I'm by cool, I am a straight person.
I'm so sorry. That's fine. We accept we accept you too,
We're in all. I I ask because I asked because
like I really wanted to get sort of the lay
of the land, like for our particular conversation on this movie,

(04:21):
and like, yeah, where everybody falls on this. Um so
that's good. That's good for me to know. Yeah, yeah,
I don't know. It was. Um, I was kind of
upset by this movie initially. I have to come out
as a hater. That's like, that's what I'm gonna say. Yeah,
but you had one of the most i think like
iconic tweets in the discourse of this movie. Wait, I

(04:44):
want to I want to pull it up. Um oh wait,
there are so many results. Okay, the tweet I'm thinking
of is, um, leave it to lesbians to call a
movie happiest season And it's one hour, forty minutes of
abject emotional suffering. That's the tweeting a perfect Yeah, I
think it's true. I think it's true. I was like, where, yeah,

(05:07):
where are we emotionally that this is the movie we've
called happiest Season, right? Like I think we need to
do a little check in with ourselves. I think we
need to do a little like see how we feel
right now, Like do a little breathe and breathe out
a litterally, drink a little water, Like how do I
actually feel in this moment? Do I feel happy? Is
that that feeling is the feeling happy? Or is it

(05:28):
like a terror and anxiety? It's even even just qualifying
it as happiest, like right, happiest ever? This is as
happy as it gets. If this is anyone in this
movie's best holiday they've ever had, it's really a cause
for concern because everyone is really like bleeding emotionally for

(05:48):
the entire movie. My takeaway from this movie was I
found it to be an accurate portrayal of a certain
type of being queer at Christmas experience. But I don't
think that just because something is literally accurate makes it
like a good movie or a fun thing to watch,

(06:10):
and that actually, perhaps in its accuracy, it becomes unfun,
definitely not happy as maybe like bleakest or something. I mean, really,
I feel like I watched it and it reminded me
of all of these terrible queer holiday experiences I've had,

(06:31):
and it just like brought up a lot of stuff
for me, and I was like, I really feel like,
like my overall feeling about this movie is sort of
a feeling of ambush and betrayal. Yes, Like I feel
like it was sold to me as like, hey, just Tom,
wouldn't you love a queer cute Christmas romantic comedy? We made?

(06:52):
We some lesbians made a lesbian romantic comedy for you.
And then I watched it and it was like, actually,
it's a lot of bad memory, like every bad memory,
like every queer holiday you've ever had? Right, Yeah, yeah, Jamie,
what are your general thoughts and feelings towards it? I

(07:13):
was really excited for this movie. It, you know, ticked
a lot of boxes for me in terms of movies
I want to watch. I am Kristen Stewart fan. I'm
a Cleo Devolve fan. I came in with high hopes
and I left. I left really said, yeah, I don't know.
I think that there are good elements to this movie,

(07:36):
and like a lot of it kind of range. I
just my main thing with this movie is just it
feels like a lot of movies we've discussed and that
it's like, wow, it's like a lesbian Christmas movie, but
it's also about like white Republicans running for mayor, and
you're like, well, it was that necessary? Like it seems

(07:58):
like it's casting a very, very wide net, and I
just I don't know, it was annoying to me to
see a rich Republican family um also actively trying to
gain power in their community for the entire movie and
to be rooting for that in the year I wasn't

(08:19):
rooting for. I wanted him to lose like that, and
for Harper to be extremely complicit in that and like
trying to help her Republican dad get elected. And it's
just like what And to be fair, like the movie
doesn't explicitly say that this family are Republicans, but the
Victor Garber character is like very much coded as a

(08:39):
Republican politician. So Harper is like trying to get her
conservative dad elected. And also Harper is really emotionally manipulative
and abusive to her partner Abbey, and I am not
rooting for that. Relationship at all. I really felt like
the the lesson of the movie was sort of it's
okay if some do you treat your like ship over

(09:01):
and over and over again as long as I tell
you I love you at the end, and I was like,
you know, that's a textbook abusive dynamic, Like that's literally
what abuse is is somebody treating you badly and then
telling you but it's okay, I love you. I'm over
all the same page here I was. It's I was okay.
I mean, part of why I insisted you guys out

(09:23):
yourselves to me at the beginning is I feel like
one of I feel like one of the polarizing aspects
of this movie is I actually feel like straight people
love it. It is a movie like four straight People.
It seems like it's for especially in that ending scene
which we'll talk about with Victor Garber and Mary stein Bergin,
where they are like, you know, we really should accept

(09:47):
our gay daughter, don't you think? And You're like, is
this two thousand and six? Like what year is this
movie happening? In this movie really feels like it came
out in the mid two thousands, since I was like,
how is it possible Bowl that like, this is like
the kind of movie I would have snuck out of
a blockbuster when I was fourteen years old, like under
my jacket, so my mom didn't see, Like, how is

(10:09):
it possible that fifteen years later we're making this exact
same movie And I don't know. I mean, it seems
like just based on the interviews I read with clear
divol surrounding this, it seems like it's it's not like
her exact experience, but it's like pulled from experiences of
like her and people that she knows. So just like
I said it in the past, like why you know this?

(10:31):
If this movie took place during the Bush administration, it
would make a lot more sense to me than it does. Well,
I don't think that there's any I mean, well, I'm
sure we'll get into this in more detail, but something
that really bothered me about this movie is that there's
an overall lack of specificity. Yeah, so, like I don't
think that I don't think that they even got to
the part where they were like what year does it

(10:53):
take place in? Like it's sort of like it's a family,
it's Christmas, it's a Christmas time of year. We're Instagram
and iPads exist, but that's about but we don't. Yeah,
we're lesbians. We love each other. You are my person.
That's why we love each other, right, Harper. Harper's the
more because I've seen this movie three times now, um

(11:17):
and the this pass watch. When I was like getting
ready for this episode, I was like, whoa Harper? Really?
Just there is not one point where Abby establishes a
boundary with her that she respects, never un till the
very end, and from the very first second to even
like the moment that they ostensibly give you as like

(11:39):
their establishing relationship moment, the first thing that happens is
Kristin Stewart goes, I don't want to go up there,
and Harper goes, go on, go up there. That's the
first thing that happens. Even before that, Kristin Stewart's like,
I don't really like Christmas, and Harper's like, I'm gonna
make you look Christmas. And it's just like, just let

(12:00):
Abby not like Christmas. It's okay to not like Christmas. Yeah,
not like in Christmas representation. Yeah. I feel I feel
so seen in this I did think of you at
the beginning scene. I was like oh, it's like when
me and Caitlin hang out into much like Abby's much
like Kristen Stewart's character Abby, who is a pet sitter
over the holidays. That's like my whole gig over the

(12:22):
holiday season. I cat sit for like twelve different cats.
Brag one cat for every day of Christmas exactly the
twelve cats up Christmas. Um I yeah, I did. Also,
this was the first time that it really I was like, oh,
it is Christen Stewart falls off of a building in

(12:45):
the first three minutes of the movie. That's wild there. Okay.
So something that really struck me as totally off about
this movie is like, okay, it's it's a Christmas movie.
We sort of accept the kind of exaggerated reality. We
would accept that zany things happen, but like this movie
happens in total realism. And then it's punctuated by these

(13:08):
few moments such as Christen Swart falling off the roof.
But because nothing like that has been happening, it's like, whoa,
Like she just fell off the roof, Like check her ankle?
Is her ankle? Okay, right, it's weird. Yeah, It's like
it seems like maybe they were like on some draft
of the script, they're like, let's throw in a little
like hallmarky stuff here, but it doesn't make sense with

(13:31):
the deep trauma that consumes most of the movie. The
room scene, No, it's scary. The room of scene is scary,
and it was like, why would you put this like scary?
There are a few moments that will get to that
I actually think are scary horror moments where like this
should not be in this movie, right, just change it,

(13:55):
take it out. And then there's other ones that again
like like the other end of that tonal dissonance spectrum
of like that mall security like interrogation, which just like
it's funny, but it's like it also doesn't feel it
doesn't align with the tone really of a lot of
the rest of the movie. Yeah. Well, something that I

(14:17):
think is like Kristin Stewart is not a comedic actor.
She can be a very good actor in the right projects,
but she's not a comedic actor, and I personally don't
think she's right to be the lead in a romantic comedy.
So like, specifically that part where she's getting interrogated at
the mall, we have who is it? Lauren Labkis and

(14:37):
I can't remember the other person, but they're doing like
zany big right, and they're doing these huge characters and
christ and Stewart can't even do a straight man. She's
just like genuinely terrified that she's been right. And I
was like, oh my god, like I don't want to
watch her like suffer while these characters like harass her
like because she is not responding to it in a

(14:59):
comedy way. They're just watching characters like scare her. Yeah,
which made me really appreciate Dan Lovey's performance, particularly because
he's such like that. If he wasn't like genuinely a
really good actor on top of being a good comedic actor,
those scenes with him and Kristin Stewart would have been

(15:19):
so jarring. But he like towed the line and it
was like he was wonderful. He was wonderful. I would
have watched a whole movie of him. Yes, yeah, I
wish he had the whole runner with like him in
The Fish. I'm like, that's the level of comedy that
makes sense for this movie. But then when it got

(15:40):
to goofy or just like what is going on? This
is this is an interesting rewrite that we got, um,
well should I recap it chin yes, um, and then
just jump in whenever we we yelled throughout the recap,
I would love we love t ll Okay. So Abby

(16:01):
Kristen Stewart and Harper is Mackenzie Davis. They are a couple. Uh.
They live in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Gotta love that western Pennsylvania representation.
Whoo whoo Um. It's Christmas time and Harper loves Christmas.
But Abby is like me about it, especially ever since
her parents died ten years prior. Her plan for the

(16:25):
holidays is to just pet sit for some people, but
Harper invites Abby to come home with her and meet
Harper's family for Christmas time. So then we get a
scene with Abby and her friend John. That's dan lovey,
and Abby is like, by the way, I'm going to
propose to Harper on Christmas morning? Insane lesbian. They've been

(16:48):
together for a year too, one year, and they show
you in all in the opening credits. You never actually
see their relationship. They just show you over the opening credits.
So they've been together for one year and now she's
to propose to her on Christmas. That was one thing
that I like that was like a story issue I
had that was like, you're first of all, expecting me

(17:08):
to root for this pretty clearly abusive relationship when I
know nothing about why the relationship was ever important to Abby, Like,
exactly answer me this. I also think that it's huge
to give her like both of her parents are dead
and she's all alone, and she's been alone for so long, right,
but we've never we don't really talk about it. We

(17:29):
don't really know how it affects her. We don't really
know what she thinks about it. We just know she's
her parents are dead and she's alone. It's just a
joke that's made constantly where everyone thinks that she grew
up as an orphan and she was like no, like
I was an adult when they die. But we and
we also don't know. I mean, I guess we don't
really need to know what happened to her parents, but
it sounds like both of her parents died at once.

(17:51):
It just sounds like a massive, massive thing to happen
in somebody's life for us to not know anything about it.
We do find out that they were professors at what
Carnegie Me, Yeah, what would have happened to two professors
at Carnegie Melon at once, what would have happened? Like
it sounds like accident. Yeah, like what, I don't know.

(18:13):
I had a question that was I I had never
caught before that they were both professors and that was
why she was going to get her PhD, which also
never becomes relevant to the plot. Ever, Oh my god,
it was like Phantom of the Opera, like a chandelier
dropped on them, Like what acts it happen as a
freak accident in the Carnegie Melon concert hall. And then

(18:37):
we find out at the end that Abby was out
to her parents before the chandelier dropped and that they
were very accepting of her. But those are like it
only comes it comes up more as a joke that
it comes up as like probably the most traumatic thing
that has ever happened to Abbey. Like it's weird. The
stakes there are confusing. Yeah, yeah for Abby. Anyway, so

(19:01):
they're on the way to Harper's family and on the
way there, Harper reveals that she never actually came out
to her parents like she said that she did, so
she had lied about that, and they do not know
that Harper is gay nor that Abby is her girlfriend. Okay,
so turn the car around. Yeah, it's easy, right, or

(19:21):
Harper tell her at that breakfast scene, when you clearly
are having major second thoughts about Abby coming home with you,
maybe tell her then. That was one of the parts
that really hurt my feelings actually, was that, like the
whole setup is her going come home with me? And
Abby is like, what, really, I never even thought to ask.

(19:43):
I never even thought I would love to come home
with you. And then the next day she's like, oh
did I say that. I didn't mean that. I was like, oh, like,
and I'm supposed to root for her, Like she immediately
just hurt my feelings. Yeah, my feelings. It's about me,
But I mean, it's it. There's there's moments where and
I've seen like some i mean, the we can't even

(20:05):
really get into the Twitter discourse on this movie. It was,
there was so much of it. But I did see
some people who were like, well, you know, consider Harper's perspective,
She's in a shitty situation, but it's like, that doesn't
mean that you don't offer your partner and out like
the fact that she didn't like even if we get
as far as I'm driving you and I was too

(20:27):
afraid to tell you I didn't actually come out to
my family. She doesn't even say in that scene like
if you want, I will just bring you back home
and like we can work this out later, like I'm
really sorry, I fucked up. Like she didn't even give
Abby an option to leave. That's like evil. She actually goes,
it's not fair, it's not fair for you to expect me.

(20:48):
Like it is immediately about her own feelings and her
own experience, and immediately she positions it as though Abby
is pressuring her into a situation that actually she instigated
the entire time. I and and Abby is so I
just Abby just get steamrolled at so many moments in

(21:10):
this movie, just to like not rock the boat and
to not upset her partner, which is another element of
an abusive relationship. Right, if I had written this movie,
if they had given me this exact cast and this
exact premise, I would have been like, Okay, the premise
is Harper says to Abby, I want you to come

(21:31):
home for Christmas with me. But here's the deal. My
family is Republican, they're conservative. They don't know I'm out.
I'm sorry I lied, so you can come with me.
But the deal is we have to pretend that we're
straight and we're friends, and they go, but they can't
keep their hands off each other. Yeah, that's the that's
the tension is that they have like so much sexual
tension that they were like trying to be straight friends. Right,
that's already better, right, But instead, Kristin Stewart and Mackenzie

(21:54):
Davis do not really have on screen chemistry, so it's
like you barely believe that they're in love. And then
the cruelty of like throwing Aubrey Plaza in the mix
with Kristin Stewart when they very much they have way
more chemistry than her and Mackenzie Davis, and it's and
it's again, it's just like, what do you want me

(22:15):
to do? Movie? Like, I have eyes, I can sense
things about people, and they're kind of start wearing the
same jacket, and you don't want me to want them
to be together? Come on there? Like right, yeah, there,
I also there. The more I watched this movie, I

(22:37):
was like, oh, they actually they kind of don't have chemistry,
which I I mean, I like, I like both of
the actors individually, but together I was just like, I'm
just I'm not rooting for it, right, Okay, So Harper
is like, you're just going to have to pretend to
be my roommate who is straight and will gets through

(23:00):
this for the next five days. Uh. And the reason
that Harper doesn't want to come out to her family
is is because it's a stressful time for her dad,
in particular because he's running for mayor. Her dad is
literally like, Hi, I'm Eric Garcetti, Like it's so that whole,
that whole element. I was like, this is just not

(23:20):
the year to throw a wealthy, aspiring political animal into
the mix. No, thank you, you can just the Victor
Garber character is like Joe Biden put me in the cabinet,
come on, please, Like it's just, oh, it's very depressing. Yeah.
So Harper is just like, I'll tell them after the holidays,
but I can't do it before that because it's a

(23:42):
very stressful time with his campaign and everything, and we're like,
he's trying to take away our rights. I can't do
it now while he's I can't just track him from
trying to take away our rights. He might have empathy,
he might not take away our rights. I just need
to make sure if that my father successfully removes our
rights before I tell him that he has actually taken

(24:02):
away my rights right exactly. And that's family. That's family
to make and and and the insult of gay icon
Victor Garber having to play this all out. It's just
not right. Yes, I agree, I agree. Love. I love
Victor Garber so much. He they're my favorite Victor Garber

(24:22):
Quarantine anecdote was like Jennifer Garner made a weird video
when we were in the first lockdown in like April,
where she's like, I stay inside for my family, for nurses.
And then it was like for Victor Garber, and because
she loves him, because they were on Alias. Yes, and
he shout up Mr Andrews from Titanic. Victor Garber is

(24:44):
taking away his own rights in this movie. It's not right,
confusing um. So Abby is upset by all of this,
of course, but she well, she has no choice but
to agree to go along with this sharade um and
to like kind of make the best of it. So
they arrive at Harper's house and meet her family, including

(25:04):
her mother Tipper that's Mary Steen Virgin, her dad Ted
Victor Garber, her sister Jane that's Mary Holland, who also
co wrote the screenplay, and then we also eventually meet
her other sister, Sloan played by Alison Bree, who has
a husband Eric and two small children, also Tipper. Once

(25:25):
I heard the name Tipper, I'm like, I know all
I need to know. I was like, that's one of
those names where I like, that was the first time
I'd ever heard a person with that name, and it's
I'm just like, I don't know who that is. Is
that al Gore's wife? I was like, that's politicians wife energy,
I gotta gotta get it. I really think Harper and

(25:46):
Abby are sort of like first round fictional lesbian names.
Like if I was making if I was going to
write a sketch right now about lesbians, I'd be like,
I don't know, they're Harper and Abbey Abigail. But she
goes by Abby because she's kind of boyish, you know,
she's kind of a tomboy. Right. It's like we could
have used another pass on a lot of these names. Yeah,

(26:08):
because Tipper and Ted, that's like, oh yeah, that's a
white Republican couple. Sure, sure, Um. So the whole family,
including Abby, goes out to dinner that night, and Harper's
mom has invited Harper's ex boyfriend Connor to this dinner,
hoping that he and Harper will get back together. They
also run into another of Harper's exes, Riley. That's Aubrey

(26:30):
Plaza's character. So things just like kind of keep getting
more and more awkward. Can I just say about this
scene something that drove me crazy when I watched it
a second time is I realized, Um, they're all at dinner,
sitting around a table, but nobody has any food, and
nobody ever takes a drink. Everybody sits at the table

(26:50):
with their arms down. There are wine glasses half full
on the table, but no one ever touches them, and
no one ever takes a drink. They just sit and
put their arms down. That's infuriated, right, And there are
also like something else I noticed about the movie that
I was like, this is why this movie feels so uncanny.
Is it's dead silent almost all the way through the movie.
There are very few instances of music, including times when

(27:14):
you would expect there to be music, such as in
a restaurant during the Christmas season, but there's no music
at any party, right, There's no music at the party.
There's no music when they're ice skating. It's dead silent. Wow,
that is extremely dry. I didn't even notice that. It's
like this movie is not doing itself any favors and
making it less. It's literally stepping out of the genre,

(27:36):
like you want there to be too much music. Instead
there's like no music, drowned in like public Like every
Hallmark movie I've ever seen is just drowned in public
domain Christmas songs by like nobody in this movie. Yeah,
which was wild because I really feel like it was
marketed as having because Tegan and Sarah did a song
for it, and it was marketed very, very heavily with

(28:00):
Teagan and Sarah. So I thought it was going to
have like a Teagan and Sarah like lesbian rock Christmas soundtrack,
like whole soundtrack, right, yeah, the whole thing. But no,
you only hear them literally during the credits of the
very end. Yeah, and it's a cute song, but it
was like, where, why couldn't could we not afford to
use it throughout the movie? Like what is it would
have been nice? I don't because it only plays for

(28:22):
like thirty seconds or something. It's not even the full
song that you get because then it cuts to another song,
I think, or does it? I don't it does it
cuts to another song that's like I mean, but I
don't know who did it. It's not as good. I
would have liked to continue to listening to the Teagan
and Sarah song. Yeah, I had a the more okay
as as I continued to watch this movie over and

(28:45):
over and over. The Aubrey Plaza's character Riley. Her entrances
are always very funny to me because she always just
like is suddenly there. She like appears and she comes
up from behind like out of like Alley's out of
like she's always alone. She always just is suddenly there,
And it's like I genuinely was like, does she have

(29:06):
anywhere else to be? Like? Does she have anyone else
to hang out with around the holidays? Like I started
feeling bad for her. It makes no sense that she like,
it makes no sense that she's at her ex's family
holiday party. Why what they could have justified that through
like giving her a job in politics or something, but

(29:28):
they don't even do that. And it's awkward. Yeah, it's
awkward because like now they have to see each other
like that. Yeah, that makes sense, and as it is,
like she is one of the best parts of the movie,
so we need her there, but it is sort of
like why where, Why is she here? But she does
keep just like conveniently running into abbey, which is like
I don't just like all those coincidences and like slinking

(29:49):
out of an alley. I identify with that, I identify
with that. That's me, that's me, just like popping up
like did somebody say, did somebody say, did somebody say
my ex girlfriend? That was It was wild realizing that
she is always just she is just in the scene

(30:11):
I had. Okay, So my page for Riley is like
to keep her in this universe, to keep her in
this political I want her to like be working for
whoever's running against Victor Garber. There is some fun tention
she's like Victor Garber's training to take our rights away,
like what the funk? And then we could get for
all the setup we get of like how Harper also

(30:33):
traumatized Riley. You don't get a scene with the two
of them, which I also thought was strange or I
mean they weirdly shake hands at the end, Yeah, like oh,
like you do with your exes. A firm handshake. Harper
gives a pretty minimal apology for literally ruining Riley's adolescence.

(30:56):
She's like, yeah, sorry about that. I hope I don't
do it again, even though I are he kind of
did whipsies. Yeah anyway, anyways, Oh yeah that was Riley
is always slinking out of somewhere in a sexy jacket,
always a blazer. Um. Oh, let's take a quick break
and then we'll come back from more recap and we're back. Okay,

(31:26):
So we've met Harper's family. Everything is very awkward, especially
for Abby, and then there's also an uncomfortable competitiveness between
Harper and her sister Sloan Um. They seem to be
competing for her their dad's approval. There's this whole ice
skate race scene, and then there's this big party where

(31:47):
Victor Garber is trying to get Um Harry played by
on a guest dire Uh to be a donor for
his campaign um in. In that scene, this is when
Abby runs into Riley again in because Riley SLINKs out
from behind a corner Um and Riley is like, hey,
by the way, I can relate to what you're going

(32:08):
through with Harper and Abbey again having to maintain this
um kind of facade is like, I don't know what
you're talking about. Well, that's the scene where she also
says nice jacket, right, or I like your jacket. Yes. Sorry,
That's one of my top opery plasma moments of the movie.
Something is weirdly happening with the production, like the production

(32:30):
design in this movie, because it's also very it's very dark,
like they're at this party. Everybody's wearing black. I'm like,
we're at a Christmas party. Like, no, there's no green,
there's no there's no lights. Everyone's wearing black. That's true.
And like even when in the other scenes when it's
just them in their casual clothing, everyone's wearing gray or
brown or like a dark green, like it's a very muted,

(32:53):
non festive palette. That yeah, it's like Harper is wearing
black and almost every festive scene of this that is weird. God, Okay,
this is just like becoming full Uncanny Valley. The more
you describe it. Even Kristin Stewart's most festive outfit, which
is the one where she's wearing the blazer with the
shirt unbuttoned all the way and it's like sequence, but

(33:15):
it's gray, right, everything is still like gray black white
and right? Is this how Republican celebrate like they're at
a funeral like I did? Yeah, that is really weird.
Kristin Stewart also always looks cold. I think this is
just sort of her thing. But I really feel like
the whole movie is watching her be alone and being like, like,

(33:37):
on the I don't know, she's making me feel bad,
but I love her so much. Like I was like
somebody like wrap her in a blanket and like put
her somewhere safe. Um, okay. And then there's this whole
sequence where Abby gets caught sneaking up to Harper's room
and then she has to play it off as sleepwalking,

(33:57):
and then the following morning, Harper almost it's caught having
spent the night in Abby's room by her family. So
I have a huge note for them here. Please for me,
the fact that they chose to have them hook up
in the guest room and not Harper's little girl bedroom

(34:18):
tells me everything I need to know about who made
this movie. That eliminates everything for me. I was like, Okay,
I get it. We're not here to have fun. That's
like the dream. That's always it is a dream. And
literally the way they set it up with the set
where she has all those horse trophies everywhere and all
those ribbons, I'm like, I'm seeing the headboard banging and

(34:39):
the ribbons like going like this, you have to show anything.
It's funny. It's funny to have them have sex in
the horse trophy room. And they chose, they actively chose
the less interesting choice. Yeah, just a vague ikea like
that's I mean, it's it's the dream to have sex
with the love of your life and your childhood bedroom.
It's the right amount of growth like there, and it

(35:01):
was right there, especially if it's if it's a Republican
your Republican household and your secret lesbian girlfriend. That's so hot,
that's so much fun. That's ball dropped. Ball dropped, Yeah, truly. Okay,
So then the next day Abby gets arrested by mall
security because Sloan's kids slip a necklace into her bag.

(35:24):
So now Harper's whole family thinks that Abby is a
criminal and she gets uninvited to this big dinner. Does
not make sense to me, And if we're supposed to
believe it makes sense. Why wouldn't Harper like why this
is such an easy argument to win, to be like
she didn't steal anything, like just let her come, don't

(35:44):
be it, don't like leave this person who doesn't know
anyone here alone to go to dinner by herself, Like right,
Harper should have been like, well, if Abby's not going,
I'm not going, Like I'm not gonna Like Harper makes
the wrong choice every single time. This is what really

(36:05):
makes me feel betrayed by this movie is that, like,
you know, holidays and family holidays especially are a really
sensitive topic for a lot of queer people because a
lot of people don't get to have those moments with
their families. And so I sort of was like, you know,
you're giving us this movie, being like this is a
romantic comedy for you for the holidays, and then it

(36:27):
shows us this queer person being alone, like it's an
experience of watching a queer person be totally alone during Christmas,
and I was like, this actually feels bad, Like I
know how it feels to be queer and alone at Christmas,
And why is that the image time getting in the
lesbian romantic comedy the Happiest Season? Right? Watching her like

(36:53):
walk down the street alone. I was like god like,
And then to have the conclusion of the movie be
like and actually it was good that all of that happened,
It's like, no, that's not yeah, Christens, I just being
that isolated on top of already less than forty eight
hours ago, a gigantic betrayal from someone you thought you

(37:16):
were going to marry, and then to just be like
thrown out into like the streets of this random Christmas
studio lot, it's just just sucked up. Also, why did
they do stealing black children? Yeah? Why did they do that?
They shouldn't have done that, They shouldn't have been Like, now,
the plot point is that the black children steal yep,

(37:38):
especially in a movie where that is like so extremely
white that there's only three black characters in this movie.
It's Alison Bree's husband and then her two children. And yeah,
they're stealing and stealing and receiving racism. They're only there
for them to be racist to them, right, And it
felt like the movie was token I using those characters

(38:01):
for the sake of including more diversity without actually doing
anything meaningful with or about those characters. Yeah, and that
and and those and their characters have like no arcs.
I really dislike Sloan's character, so I'm just like, I
just try to block out that entire story. Like but
the fact that it's like if if she is going

(38:22):
to be there with her husband, give her husband a story,
Give the only black adult in this movie a story?
What what are you doing? Yeah? How does he feel
about like having married into this Republican family? Right? Exactly exactly?
I thought that in multiple points. I'm like, is literally
everyone on board here? Is there any I want to

(38:44):
be rooting for Jane? But is Jane? Like I guess
I'm just a Republican? Like, is everyone on board here?
And if so, let's discuss, Like it's just so weird.
Um Okay. So Abby has gotten uninvited to this big event,
so instead she hangs out with Riley at a drag show. Meanwhile,

(39:08):
Harper is not making any time for Abby and she
is hanging out with her high school boyfriend Connor all night.
So all this, like sneaking around and lying and repressing,
is weighing on the relationship. Harper starts to withdraw and
she's like, I need space. So Abby is like trying

(39:28):
to figure out if she should just leave, but an
uber is going to cost like a thousand dollars, so
she's like, I guess I just have to stick it out,
and inescapable being unable to leave a partner's uh as
someone who's tried to escape someone else's family's holiday more
than once. That is the most heavy moment of dread,

(39:50):
where you're like, I can't there's I cannot go. I
cannot go unless my partner cheeses to show me some grace,
which they won't. I love that it's a horror moment.
It's a horror moment. She's trapped. In that moment, she
realized that she is trapped. I also thought that something
that this movie captured very well but I almost think

(40:11):
did by accident is the tonal shift between when they're
at the drag Bar two when she goes back to
straight land, and I was like, this is what it's
like to like feel this like huge relief to find
your little pocket, feel a huge relief where you can
finally let go and like not act like anything for anybody,

(40:34):
and then have to suddenly go back like with everyone's
family and act like this again. I was like, that
is real. That's a real experience. Right, that's dark contrast
because Abby meets up with Harper at a bar literally
called Freddy's Fratty If someone had to sometimes, I just

(40:57):
like I have radical empathy for the people who have
to create sets that are based around kind of lazy writing,
where like someone just had to make a huge as
sign that said Fratty's because no one wanted to do
a second pass. It's it's not fair, but right. It's
like that chosen family versus like biological family and that contrast,

(41:20):
and like that's an interesting thing to explore, but rather
than really doing, the movie is just like, well, let's
just make Harper really emotionally abusive to her partner. I know.
I feel like the tension that also gets set up
but is never resolved is about chosen family and like
non traditional like kind of family units versus like assimilation

(41:45):
and like marriage and like your one true partner forever.
But then it totally just drops this one and it's like, actually,
the marriage thing is like what we always wanted in
the end. Yeah, And it's I don't like the way
that the script kind of trying to wriggle out, Like
the script is very aware that the marriage end game
is very like kind of a really normative place to land,

(42:08):
and they just keep using Dan Levy's character to just
acknowledge that they're aware of that, but then continue to
do it anyways, where like Dan Levy is like, oh,
you know, another win for the patriarchy blah blah blah
blah blah, and it's like, okay, so if you know that,
then then well I follows through on it. Yeah. Yeah,
I kind of was thinking where just like the first

(42:30):
time I was watching this, I thought, because he was
so like his character John is, it was I just
think of him as Dan Levy, but it's yeah, like
it sounded like he was kind of like I thought
that was kind of like foreshadowing for like, oh, you know,
like Abby's gonna like receive that eventually and be like, yeah,
you know what, I I don't need to have this
very like normative relationship. You know, I can wait, I

(42:53):
can do whatever I want. But then they're like, nope,
you must get married. You must get married because the
or the mayor will cry. Yeah. Um okay. So then
the Christmas Eve Caldwell party rolls around, John shows up
to save Abby, and Abby is like, you know what Harper,

(43:16):
it's over. I'm done. And then Harper goes to apologize
and try to kind of reconcile, and as they are
doing that and kind of embracing, Sloan walks in and
sees them and then proceeds to out Harper to the
entire family and everyone in the room, which is like
dozens of people at this holiday party. I hate Sloan.

(43:38):
I Sloan is the only character who centers herself more
than Harper. Like there Harper centers herself in everything, but
Sloan literally like she takes the cake in terms of
centering her like boring divorce over like this, I just
I can't stand. I just can't. Like I've been saying

(44:02):
this and I'll say it again. I cannot stress this enough.
This is a triggering moment, Like I cannot imagine, you know,
And I've never had an experience like that of being
like forcibly outed, but I cannot imagine being someone for
whom this sort of thing has happened to them. And
then they're watching this movie and it suddenly happens and
they're like not expecting that, you know, because I'm like,

(44:26):
if you want to do a sad coming out story
that's about a hard family relationship. That's one movie. But
this is like you were telling us the whole time
it's a zany Christmas comedy and then just showing us
these like really kind of triggering circumstances that like real
people have lived through, right, and then taking that and

(44:48):
turning it into like physical comedy by the end too,
is just so Yeah, they're having like a slapstick comedy
fight about it, where like a nice painting gets destroyed,
and and I just I felt so bad for Jane
in that moment and in many moments based on the
way that she's treated by family members. Also, Sloan did

(45:10):
a horrible, unforgivable thing by outing Harper, and she owes
Harper a huge apology which we never see. Harper doesn't
need to speak to her ever again. Like that that
is that could very well be the end of that relationship.
Like absolutely, Yeah, Harper needs to estrange herself from her

(45:31):
entire family and go to a lot of therapy. She
needs to be alone for a while. Yeah, she needs
to be alone, make some serious amends, and then move
forward with her life. Has not a Republican shell. I
just don't get it. I don't. I don't want this

(45:52):
family dynamic to remain intact. But now you're allowed to
be gay, Like there's a there's it's bigger, there's a
lot going on. I don't know. I mean it's really
like in that way, it's really a story about whiteness.
And this thing that's about like the last sort of

(46:12):
frontier to get over is like being accepted personally for
being gay. And once we've passed that tire, everything is
actually totally fine. When like, as you keep saying, Jamie,
like it's not fine, it's not fine if the Republican
gets elected as mayor and then this republicanship like it's
actually not okay. Other people are going to be hurt.

(46:32):
But yeah, anyone who isn't like as rich and white
as their family is is going to demonstrably suffer it.
Just the fact that that never comes up is truly
baffling to me, Like, especially from it doesn't seem like Abbey,
like I just the person we are sort of like
told Abby is it doesn't seem like she would be

(46:55):
okay with that. I just don't. She never gives us
a point of view. We don't have a point of
view from her she just sort of like suffers throughout. Yeah,
and then the fact, I mean this is very like
I think it was like one of the I guess
rom COMI troupes that is present here, is like She's like,
I'm going to school for art, right, and that's it.

(47:17):
And um no, I'm not going to talk about art
literally even one time. But I'm going to school for
art because my parents had a chandelier dropped on them. Um,
so you're just like, all right, I guess right. Abby
should take the same approach to her relationship that an
August Dyer does to like examining Ted as like a

(47:40):
like someone she might donate to, because it's like, I'm
not just looking at you, I'm looking at your whole family.
Like Abby should be like, yeah, I'm looking at you
as a partner, but like also your whole family, and
your whole family sucks again minus Jane. But and I'm
not saying that you shouldn't marry someone you want to
marry because their family is awful. But Abby should have

(48:00):
a choice about whether or not she spends time with
Harper's family, and she isn't given a choice, and instead
she was lied to and ambushed and forced to be
around these very toxic people. I would not be begging
for these people's approval and acceptance. Yeah, I really want
Abby to like stand up for herself at any point.

(48:24):
I mean, but I know it's like she's in this
very uncomfortable position that like again Harper forced her into,
like you have to keep lying, you have to maintain
this charade, and like I feel so bad. It seems
like we're being set up for Like I don't know,
it's again, it's just like you're just saying, it's kind
of just like a lack of character arc for Abby
because at the end, it's like she's defined by being

(48:46):
constantly steamrolled by others, and then by the end she
is steamrolled for a final time and then she's just
flat like and it's it's actually like the least the
least forceful steamroll love them all. She just kind of
like gives in. She's like, Okay, yeah, there's no like
big turning point moment. She just is like no, and

(49:08):
then she's like but yes, right, frustrating, I don't like it.
And and again it's not to keep bringing up my
little alternate Riley idea. But like even if Abby is
defined by being steamrolled. Riley is a character that could
challenge that in her and be like, why are you
allowing this to happen to yourself? On top of the

(49:29):
fact that you're being treated like ship, this family aspires
to treat everybody like ship, Like you don't need to
take this sitting down. And that's why I'm maybe Riley
should run for mayor I can better. Yes, Wow, sort
of like female pe movie The Youngest Mayor, The Youngest

(49:51):
Game Mayor, Trauma of at All. Okay, there's just a
little tiny bit left of the story where no, it's fine,
so sloan out Harper to the whole room. Um. Harper
denies it at first, but then it's finally like, yes, family,
I am gay and I'm in love with Abby. And

(50:12):
then Victor Garber pitches a fit and then um, Abby's
like it's it's too late, and she leaves. But then
Harper shows up at this gas station and she's like,
I'm so sorry, you're the love of my life. I'll
make it up to you, and then they kiss and
that's the big climax of the movie. And then the

(50:33):
next day is Christmas Day. Harper's family has like come
around they have a what we're meant to believe as
a nice Christmas together, and then they all live quote
happily ever after for at least a year. Well they do.
They do exchange rings. They're wearing rings in the end.

(50:55):
So she has decided in that moment that it's still
a good times to propet just get married. Let's take
a quick break, and then we'll come right back for
a more discussion. We're back. We're back. That gas station scene,
just that when Harper just she's just spewing the ship

(51:21):
like it's just so when she's like, I don't care
what they think, I only care about you, It's like, well,
name one thing you've done in the past week that
would demonstrate that, like right, one decision. I don't understand
why they didn't just moviefy that moment. Like, to me,
you could have given this movie a few different endings
that I would have liked better. Like the one I

(51:42):
really like is the one where she where Abby leaves
with Dan Levy and they have Christmas together and it's
like about chosen family and about like yeah, like we're
having our little queer Christmas. The other one is if
we have to have Abby and Harper end up together.
How coup Harper doesn't do I huge romantic gesture? How

(52:02):
come she doesn't do a gesture where she puts in
Christmas lights, I love you, Kristen Stewart, Merry Christmas, like
on the roof for the whole neighborhood to see, and
it's Christmas and the music is playing, Like why don't
we do something like that? Why does she just show
up to a guest and then it's like nothing moment.
I'm also like tracking you like that. Yeah, she's it's

(52:24):
a stalking thing, Like she shows up uninvited, unannounced. That
is not okay, It's only funny when Dan Levy does it.
That's another. I mean, as much as I love Dan
Levy and his character in this movie, that's like, why
are you stalking people? John for Cony. Um, yeah, no,
I I knew that I was looking into. Like this

(52:47):
interview is cleared of all was doing them? Like did
she acknowledge any of the all over the place reception
of the movie. And she does say in interviews that
she was determined to have Harber and be together at
the end because, um, she says, quote, there are so
many lesbian movies that end in tragedy where these people
fall madly in love and they never see each other again.

(53:09):
We don't get a lot of happy endings, and I
wanted them to make it, which fair point, absolutely, But like,
then why did you write the characters this way? Like,
I don't know. I feel like there's a strong disconnect
between because I also read some of these interviews and
I feel like there's a really distinct disconnect between what
Clo Duval thought she was doing and what she actually did,

(53:32):
because like I read a quote where she was like,
this is a story about like forgiveness and about like
working through problems together in a relationship, and I was like,
but they do not work together. They there is not
one single moment ever where they work together to handle
this problem. And there's not one single moment where the
character Harper does anything to merit forgiveness, totally right, that

(53:55):
we don't see them work through anything. No, so the
actual message becomes like you should just forgive people who
treat you like garbage, right, And that's I actually think
that that's a dangerous message for like queer people especially,
And it's like I have all, like I I likely
of all, I like really respect her work. She's like,
you know, she's sure, she's an icon. She's great, but

(54:18):
it's an icon for sure. But yeah, I I totally
agree with you, Jess, Like it's just a it's a
weird way to kind of walk back some of the
decisions you made in your movie to be like, well,
you know, we're all we're all struggling. It's difficult. So
just if someone is emotionally abusive to you, consider where
they're coming from. And it's like that, what kind of

(54:39):
message is that? I know that's a weird message, And like,
to be totally clear, I also like I really respect
cleage of all and like have always, like you know,
looked to her for a long time as like a
lesbian icon. And so I just feel that's like what
I feel disappointed by totally. It's like she can' you like,

(55:01):
she can do better than there or I want to
believe that she can do better and will. I hope
she does, because it was like I hope that she
takes some of the constructive criticism around this movie to heart.
I think she will. I hope she will. You know,
her performance and but I'm a cheerleader. It meant a
lot there's just simply nothing. It meant a lot to us. Yeah,

(55:24):
there's I also read I I did not know this
movie existed, but I also read that there was a
movie with a similar premise that came out in two
thousand nine. There there have been a few movies that
are almost exactly like this. What are including one that
I think came out in or Steen like kind of
more recently. I feel like I heard about that and
I was like, why didn't that come out ten years ago?

(55:47):
It's about Thanksgiving, but it's the same thing. Somebody brings
her girlfriend home and her family doesn't know, right. I
read about a movie called Make the Yule Tide Gay
from two thousand and nine, where like college student takes
a boyfriend home. They pretend to be roommates, but the
main character like is I guess the difference is that

(56:09):
the main character demonstrates a lot of guilt throughout the
movie and like is constantly communicating with his partner and
like having just doubts and like that, which doesn't make
it right, but it like at least makes it like
easier to not hate a character that we're supposed to

(56:30):
love because Harpert just acts so selfishly at every single turn.
I don't understand why they kept having her hang out
with her ex boyfriend. I was like, this is like
the wrong It's not it's just a wrong thing to do.
I also was confused by that and if if she
was doing that to like appease her family or something

(56:54):
like not, not enough was done to establish like why
she was doing that, and it was confusing to me. Yeah,
I mean I feel like that could have been an
interesting opportunity of like, because it's implied that that character
is gay based on how he interacts with Dan Levy
later in the movie. So it's like that could have
been an interesting conversation, like, but she she shuts it down,

(57:18):
like she is so not receptive to it. He like
tries to talk to her outside of Fratty's or wherever
the place was, and kind of like gives her an
opening of like hey, you know, and but she's just
like Nope, I'm not having this conversation with anybody, And
it's like, well, then, why where are you here? Also,
I think we could get rid of the boyfriend and

(57:39):
then just include Riley Moore. Absolutely, yeah, Well you know
what would if if Abby had gone to Christmas with
her girlfriend's family and ended up hooking up with her
girlfriend's ax. That's a lesbian romantic comedy. That's just a
movie I desperately want to see. That would have been
so great there, that would have been so far they

(58:00):
should have it also would have raised this days if
like Abby and Riley kissed. I like, you know, I
don't condone cheating, but in this situation, it's so like
Abby and Riley. Legally Cannon should kiss because Abby has
just been like flogged by this situation and her partner
for days on end, there's no end in sight. Going

(58:23):
home for five days is a bad idea to begin with.
That was like when I was the first time I
watched the movie, I'm like, we we leave after three days.
That's three days is the maximum time you want to
spend with your family. But she's allowed to kiss Riley.
I can't believe. I cannot believe that they don't kiss
at the bar by movie law. It should have happened absolutely,

(58:45):
chemistry law. It should have like it should have just
happened organically. Yeah, um, I did appreciate. I like the
look on Harper's face when she sees what happened. Jamie
seems to have accidentally dropped from the him close, So
just we'll just keep recording and then um, yeah, there
she is. Okay, Oh my god. I just I was

(59:08):
just got so intense about wanting Aubrey Plast and Christian
Stewart to kiss that I started like fidgeting with a
button and I accidentally hung up. That's on me. Do
you remember what you were saying? I was just saying
something like horny and then got all worked up and
hung up. Isn't everybody with the button thinking about Aubrey?

(59:30):
Plus it's true. I yeah, she she's so. I liked
she when she was doing press for this movie, it
was like it did make me laugh because she was
just like, my goal in my performance was to make
everyone be upset that Christian Steward doesn't end up with
my character, like, well, you were successful. I was shocked
that she was allowed to say that. Yeah, that surprised

(59:52):
to me. I guess she can just kind of do
what she wants. I don't know, or maybe she doesn't care.
I have no idea. She was grumpy cat who knows
it is not her first I was like, wow, this
is not her first Christmas. Ever. She was in the
Grumpy g Christmas movie. Um to call back to those
couple of other similar similar like Christmas movies or like

(01:00:14):
holiday movies with a similar premise about queer characters having
to repress and like hiding their identity for for the
comfort of straight families. Yeah right, Yeah, that speaks to
the fact that like this is like kind of the
first queer center Chris like Festival Christmas see movie that
was backed by a major studio and you know, it's

(01:00:36):
got bank a, bull Stars. It was supposed to have
a theatrical release but then pandemic, so it got a
release on Hulu. But it makes look like viewing records
on Hulu, which is which is like cool enough people
wanted to see a really good lesbian Christmas movie and
then they just they kind of just saw happiest season.
But then that's the thing, Like it's a lot more

(01:00:57):
accessible than previous similar or movies have been. But that
makes it all the more disappointing that it like doesn't
deliver and that has like some pretty toxic messages to
take away from it because it has all these more
has way more eyes on it than other similar movies.
But what just you were kind of alluding to this
earlier is like it's it does like by the end

(01:01:20):
of this movie, you're like, oh, this movie is for
like straight parents, Like it's not for queer people, like
it's for the flag crowd. Yeah, yeah, and it's And
so I find it frustrating because we've had this conversation
about like multiple movies on the show before of like

(01:01:41):
a movie that is like kind of marketed as this
huge win for representation, but then it's about conservative white
people and it's kind of doing the bare minimum in
a lot of ways. To to like start, it almost
feels like it's testing the waters in a weird way.
I don't know, I like who I wish that Clear
Daval was like if I would honestly respected a lot

(01:02:05):
more if Clear Dval was like, Here's who I'm making
this movie for, and was just like clear about that
because it's it's so jarring at so many points, and
then by the end, when you land on that Mary Stein,
Virgin Victor garber Stein, you're like, oh, so this is
who the movie is for. To me, this is why
like quote unquote, representation is sort of like a not

(01:02:28):
good enough for not full enough concept because like I
feel like this movie is a great example about that
because I'm like, okay, sure it is like about lesbians,
Like there are lesbian characters, it was made by lesbians.
Clear Dull as a lesbian. She wrote it, she directed it,
but the like actual content of the movie is not

(01:02:48):
really good for like a lesbian audience or a queer audience.
Like you have to serve your audience, like it's right, right,
you can't just like put people in front of the screen, right,
you can't, and you can't just like you can't just
stop it identity, like there has to be more there, right,

(01:03:09):
Totally totally agree, And that's something we talk about in
terms of like representation in media is often a slow
and tumultuous process where like the steps are generally like
there's no representation, and then after some amount of years
it's like, Okay, now there's some representation, but it's usually
bad and offensive and harmful. Uh, and then you move

(01:03:32):
on to Okay, now there's like more positive representation, but
it's still it feels outdated still, or it feels like
there's a long way to go. It hasn't quite caught
up with like contemporary attitudes. So this feels like that
where it's like, Okay, there's representation, it's a story made
by queer people about queer people, but not but there's

(01:03:53):
not four queer people. It's frustrating. Yeah, and this, this
is like this expands far beyond entertain where it's just
it's kind of like frustrating and insulting to have. It's
like something put in front of you and be like, look,
aren't you you should be happy? You should be happy
that I think this when it's like right, no, like no,

(01:04:13):
you don't just need to take something insufficient, because like, yeah,
I I really resent that whole like, well, aren't you
happy that this exists? You're like I guess, like I'm
not unhappy, but it's not it's not what we were promised.
I don't know, it's not what we were promised. And
I'm not even saying like it shouldn't exist, but I
am saying like it sucks that this is like the thing,

(01:04:36):
it's the thing that we're getting and it's not it
like it hurts me like I spent I don't know,
I don't know. Sometimes I feel like I'm being melodramatic,
but I am like each time I watched this movie
because I watched it twice. Um, I've spent the whole
next day like kind of at a high level of
like anger and anxiety and just like being like upset

(01:04:58):
because this movie reminds me of a lot of bad
experiences I've had, and now suddenly I'm thinking about these
experiences that maybe don't bother me at all in my
normal life, and so I'm like, that's just not like
I feel like that's not the ideal outcome for a
queer audience. Yeah, of course it's, especially because so many

(01:05:20):
queer movies prior to this have focused on like tragedy,
and there's been kind of an erasure of like queer
joy narratives, and if on the surface, it feels like
this would be a queer joy narrative. You know, it's
it's happiest season, it's Christmas time, it's FESTI wou but
like we've been saying, there are so many moments and

(01:05:43):
just like beats and themes in the movie that are
like traumatic and triggering and like closer to horror than comedy,
and like I would almost classify this as like a tragedy,
Like it's kind of dick what, especially the way it
ends and the fact that Hobby ends up with Harper,

(01:06:05):
who is again really not a good partner or a
good person. There's essentially no joy in the movie. There's
essentially no Christmas joy whatsoever, like throughout the whole movie
except for like the opening credit sequence and the ending
credit sequence. Yeah, and also the ending he wins mayor

(01:06:27):
here just like he wins You hate that. I really
hate it really bothers me that. Yeah, there's I mean
the fact that it concludes with the protagonist who we
are rooting for, settling for someone who does not treat
her right that we see on screen at least, and

(01:06:48):
does not make any meaningful amends with the people in
her life or works on herself even like one percent,
Like what kind of what kind of messages that? That sucks? Right? Like,
it's not a happy ending. Just because you tacked it
on there doesn't make it like a happy ending for

(01:07:11):
queer people. Yeah, yeah, I want to read a quote
that I pulled from a review in l UM from MICHAELA. Phillips,
who is a queer black writer. UM says, quote, I
needed the film to earn its happy ending and hold
Harper accountable to unpack the trauma of coming out and

(01:07:33):
how queer people harm themselves, each other, and those closest
to them under societal pressure. I see myself in Harper,
scared to come out. I understand how time is wasted
unlearning and struggling with heteronormativity, but that's not an excuse
to inflict emotional pain on others in the process. Being
afraid of confronting one's own personal trauma, especially a rich,

(01:07:54):
privileged white family, doesn't excuse actions that hurt people. I
don't want queer people accepting a partner who gaslights them
because they're scared. I want queer mainstream films that delve
into coming out and reckon with all the messiness of
the situation. I want films that acknowledge the lived experiences
of black queer people. I want queer mainstream films that
go beyond coming out to showcase the complexity of their characters.

(01:08:18):
End quote. I agree, Yeah, I was like, she now that, Yeah,
that like And I don't want to invalidate anyone's feelings
or opinions. Anyone who enjoys this movie finds value in
this movie, because I think there is a lot of
value in this movie. There is representation that we haven't
seen before in a mainstream Christmas movie. They're funny parts.

(01:08:39):
So I was like, I was still crying throughout the
Like I cried. I cried when the when the movie
told me to cry. I was playing ball with the movie.
Like that scene at the end with Dan Levy and
Christen Stewart, we like, you can't you can't help weeping
during that scene. Like it's so that's another scene where

(01:09:00):
you're like, it's like, oh, we're so close to something, right,
Like when the last time I watched it, I was
watching it was my my friend Hayn Park, and she
was like, at the end of this monologue, you should
be like, and this relationship has seen its course and
come with me. Let's get a drink at the track

(01:09:21):
bar exactly because he's right. He's literally right. Everything he
says is literally correct. Yeah. Yeah, So that yeah, that's
and and for listeners, that's the scene where towards the
end there at there's like so many scenes to take
place at the same gas station at the very end
of the movie, but they're outside at the gas station
and John is basically reminding Abbey that Harper is like

(01:09:47):
in a really difficult position even though it is actively
hurting Abby. And then he shares his coming out story
and that it was really traumatic and that he basically
lost a relationship with his father and rejected by his family,
and just because Abby was accepted by her parents before
the chandelier fell, that tragic night, Um, you know, it

(01:10:09):
was a huge night for her. It was the ups
and downs. Oh my god, can you imagine She told
them she was a lesbian at six pm and they
were like, we love you so much. And then at
thirty they shouldn't gone to the opera that night, but
they wanted to support their clining gamel On students. But

(01:10:30):
I liked where he was going with that. But then yeah,
I just kind of landed like, so I don't care
if you're emotionally abused by your partner, even though he
spent the whole movie saying the opposite of that. So
it's strange. Yeah, I I do love his character. I
I do love John. And again, like a lot of

(01:10:50):
what he says makes you think that, like, Okay, this
movie is trying to have a progressive agenda. He's calling
out heteronormative standards, different things like that. But like the
progressive agenda that this movie is trying to put forward,
is like it doesn't go as far as it thinks
it's going. It's weird. It's weird. Can we talk about

(01:11:11):
Jane really quick? Yes? Jane. I really like Mary Holland,
I like love her as a performer, this character did not.
I love Jane, but the way everyone treats Jane in
the movie super sucks. I mean it's like she's like
Jane is a like not a neurotypical character, and there's

(01:11:35):
just jokes about it, and there's just like all of
these references to how she has been treated like shipped
by her family for not being neurotypical for her entire life,
and that's the joke. It's as good. I like her
author's journey, but the way she's treated by her family sucks,
and like no one ever really, no one apologizes to her.

(01:11:58):
I don't know what what what? Well the jokes all
to me, they all feel very like mid two thousand
sort of level, like where we still think it's okay
to joke about that stuff. We still think the closet
joke is really funny, like we are still talking about
things and that it's still kind of okay to be
like casually racist, casually ablest, and like that's the funny joke,

(01:12:21):
and that really takes me out of it. I'm like,
this is like the queer movie of like, is this
joke with this sort of mid two thousand sensibility in
an offensive way? It's I And then but again, do
I tear up when she is doing the book reading
at the end of the movie. That was the party

(01:12:42):
the hardest. I found them that to be the most compelling.
When she's just like and then she's like reading from
her fantasy novel and she's like then they all look
at each other, and it was Glenn who stepped forward first,
and I was like, anyway, yeah, I really this family

(01:13:02):
really treats everyone poorly, and uh, Jane gets the brunt
of it a lot of the time. But the ways
that it's like the parents Tipper and Ted treat each
of their daughters like ship in a unique way, and
the way that they treat Jane is just ablest, Like

(01:13:24):
that's that's how they show that they don't respect that daughter.
And then they it's just so all over the place.
He's like, and then the sloan I I don't even
want to talk about Sloan, what what is her story?
They're like, oh, we're mad at her because she has
a very successful business, like she didn't pursue law and

(01:13:46):
she stopped to have a family, but now she like
she she's like a girl boss. Like what am I
rooting for here? Yeah? I feel like they added a
bunch of like B and C and D storylines that
ended up just die looting the main drama, which is
Harper and Abbey, and then it sort of was like
like literally over and over and over again. The last

(01:14:06):
third of the movie is just people having like confessions,
like all in a row, and it's like why are
we having confession after confession after confession even very often
following up like Harper's finally coming out moment, and then
the second after that someone else is like an I
I was like, why we're not talking about you? Like

(01:14:28):
the movie is not about you. When Sloan makes that
about her, You're just like, who even are you? Like
get out of this movie. Yes, Sloan interrupts Harper's coming
out by being like, well, I'm getting divorced, and it's
like read the room, like we leave them. But on
the writing side, I was like, why did you do this?

(01:14:48):
Why did you dilude your own movie is big moments,
with these little moments that nobody gives a shit about, right,
I do wonder, like, what the what the motivate? I'm
sure that there is a reason, but I just aunt, um.
I think it's probably something like in the end, we
all have secrets, we're all hiding something, and that's how

(01:15:08):
we can relate. Like that was what I got out
of that. Yeah, And I was like, Okay, but I
don't give a shit about those secrets. They're not good secrets.
I don't care. I'm like, I don't care about her
goop business related secrets. It's just not the same problem.
I don't know. I the last thing I had was

(01:15:29):
this is I was only thinking about this because I
this like story popped up in my feet in the
last couple of days about John. So obviously there's a
lot of queer characters in this movie, but John still
for me fell into like a gay best friend trope totally,
which I was like, that's just another weird thing to

(01:15:50):
be happening in this movie. All basically everything he does
is revolving around Kristin Stewart's life, Like he just I mean,
we know that he has a job, we know what
his job is. It becomes relevant at the very very
very end of the movie. But like he's I feel
like it's another like weird mid two thousand trope where
he is just but instead of being at the beck

(01:16:13):
and call of some straight girl, he's at the beck
and call of Christian Stewart about her relationship. And it's
just the reason I brought it up was Andrew Rynolds
was in that movie prom which I haven't watched yet,
but he was doing an interview for that movie and
basically brought up the Bechtel test and he said, you

(01:16:34):
know what the Bechtel test is. I apply that to
a lot of gay characters as I read scripts because
I think it's a good way to figure out if
they're just supposed to be a punch line or if
they're human. Does he have a life? You can only
do so much as an actor sometimes to flush things out,
and it really has to be in the writing, which
I agree with. And it's like I don't know, It's
like you have Dan leave, like why wouldn't you? And

(01:16:58):
he has no family, he has no boyfriend, he has
no he has a point of view about everything that
happens in Harper's life, but beyond that, he doesn't totally
have a point of view. Yeah. Also, he makes a
very confusing just like narrative choice where Abby calls him
or they're on the phone and she's like everything is
in shambles, like this is a disaster. I can't leave

(01:17:20):
because the uber costs a thousand dollars And then John's like, sorry,
gotta go and he just kind of hangs up on her,
and then he shows up a few hours later. Why
wouldn't he say, like, I'm coming to get you. Stay there.
It feels so much better if right, Because like that
moment where he shows up is like I guess treated
as this like big reveal or something, but it doesn't

(01:17:42):
need to be. And instead he just like he makes
it seem like her problems are nothing, and then he's like, sorry,
you gotta go by, but it's so that he can
like get in the car really fast and come safer.
Why wouldn't he tell her that he was coming to
rescue her. Ah, Yeah, I don't. That didn't make any
sense to me. All that said, I liked the fish jokes.

(01:18:03):
The fish jokes were great. I mean I have something
in terms of like the varied queer representation within this
quote unquote queer movie. Um is, so I auditioned for
Happiest Season? Yeah? I, um yeah, I auditioned for Aubrey

(01:18:24):
Plaza's role. And I know a couple of other people
who auditioned for it to who have like said publicly,
I know Rio Butcher said that the auditioned for it.
Irene to audition for it, and like, I don't. I'm
sure they put out a wide swath of auditions for
like queer people in general, but like to see specifically

(01:18:45):
these three people and me Irene Ria, I'm like, oh,
so they did audition like masculine people, gender nonconforming people,
trans people and me and Ria trans and ultimately they
chose a cis feminine woman, which like, I'm glad having
seen the movie, I'm glad Aubrey Plasa was in it

(01:19:05):
because I want to look at Aubrey Plaza. I would
rather look at Aubrey Plaza than be in that movie.
But but what that says to me is, you know
they've done It's not that they auditioned us and they
cast Ruby Rose or Asia Kate Dillan or Roberta Calindras
or like some other like more famous masculine gender, nonconforming,
non binary person. They just looked at us and they

(01:19:28):
ultimately were like, that's not what we want. We want
three feminine women with long hair and femininity. And I
think that that is a choice, a distinctive choice. It
certainly is. That is telling, and it's another kind of
marker of like this movie feels behind um to cast all.

(01:19:53):
You know, there are four queer characters, all of them
are siss, most of them are white. Aubrey Plaza is
a person of alert, but it's still a very white
and she's a person of color who moves through like
whiteness in this sort of way. Right, and then just
hearkening back to the Harper is like so complicit in
her father's like campaign for what's clearly a Republican I

(01:20:17):
know we can't get over the local politics thing, but
because but like we're having a lot of these conversations right,
like like our generation we have to talk to our families,
We have to talk to our conservative family members. We
have to talk to our parents who are well meaning
but maybe not as progressive as younger generations, especially like

(01:20:40):
white millennials who are anti racist, we have a responsibility
to be like, hey, family, you need to stop you
need to stop being shitty, you need to be actively
anti racist. So for Harper to like just like, yeah,
I'm gonna help my dad write his speeches for his
Republican your campaign, it's just like it's on top of

(01:21:04):
the fact that like it's it's it becomes confusing to
me of like if this movie is aware that this
is a problem that even exists, like it's just so
treated as a given that like, well, you know, families
are like this and without you know, acknowledging any of
the active harm that comes with those views, and just

(01:21:25):
for her to be so unchallenging of it and to
just I mean, yeah, that's just like privilege operating at
the highest level to be like, well, I don't know,
it's like I don't want to make the holidays uncomfortable,
and not the whole driving force behind that where it's like, well,
uh sorry, Literally, the whole thing we've been saying this
whole time is you must go home for the holidays

(01:21:47):
and talk to your family. You must go home for
the holidays and during Christmas, make your family uncomfortable, Like
that's literally the discourse, right, yeah, and just this year
in particular, to see that is not even not even
be acknowledged by any character in the movie at any point,
even characters that you would think would is. It's just

(01:22:09):
like another uncanny element of this movie where I'm like,
what planet, what year? What? Like? It just doesn't track
at all, and it just makes it like less relevant.
It works against the movie entirely. Yes, I don't know.
I was like, Wow, does anyone have any all feel

(01:22:33):
good now that we all feel happy? Happy season? The
We've we've discussed this on this show before, so um,
we don't need to get too into this. But there
was an interview that Kristin Stewart did with Variety where
she gave her perspective on gay actors playing gay characters

(01:22:54):
that I thought was, um, just a take. I I
don't think she's ever spoken on this iss you before.
And so the writer Kate Arthur asked the question, Uh,
there are a lot of people who feel it's important
that gay actors play gay characters after so many years
of that not being the case. What's your stance on that?
And she gives a very long answer, but I found

(01:23:15):
it to be pretty thoughtful, where she um basically says
she doesn't know and it depends, which is vague, but
she says, I would never want to tell a story
that really should be told by somebody who's lived that experience.
Having said that, it's a slippery slope conversation, because that
means I could never play another straight character if I'm
going to hold everyone to the letter of this particular law.

(01:23:37):
I think it's such a grey area. There are ways
for men to tell women's stories or way for women
to tell men's stories, but we need to have our
finger on the pulse and actually have to care. You
kind of know where you're allowed. I mean, if you're
telling a story about a community and they're not welcoming
to you, then funk off. But if they are and
you're becoming an ally and a part of it, and

(01:23:57):
there's something that drove you there in the first place,
that makes uniquely endowed with a perspective that might be worthwhile.
There's nothing wrong with learning about each other and therefore
helping each other tell stories. So I don't have a
sure shot answer for that. And she kind of opens
that discussion by saying like she has played, you know,
so many straight roles and she's like a skinny, white

(01:24:19):
CIS woman, and so, I don't know. I thought it
was like an interesting answer to that question. I think,
just like you said, a lot of that answer only
works if you're a skinny, suys white woman exactly. Yeah.
So I don't know. I mean I feel like we've
we've had we've had conversations around this in a few
different episodes. But it, Yeah, it basically does boil down

(01:24:41):
to she is operating with a lot of privilege coming
into this situation. And so some people were not thrilled
that McKenzie Davis was cast because she is a straight actor.
Other people don't care. And it comes through, It comes
comes through, It comes through, like it doesn't have to
doesn't have to come through, Like I think, I think

(01:25:02):
Rachel Vice plays an amazing lesbian. Um, I always forget
that Rachel Vice is straight. I what's funny is like
i feel like I see her like on the Red
Carpet and I'm like, oh, that's like a straight forty
year old mother of three, Like that's like a straight woman.
But she's like such a good actor that she can
get into it. But like if it doesn't come through
it like weird. I always forget that Mackenzie Davis was

(01:25:24):
in San Junipero, which was like another thing that makes
me cry when I watch it. But yeah, I don't know.
I just I was wondering if that conversation was going
to be had around this movie because there are a
lot of queer actors playing queer parts, and then there's
a few examples of that not being the case. And
then we also have Victor Garber playing uh straight mayor

(01:25:45):
who is homophobic, so there's I don't know. I thought
I was glad she was asked the question, and hopefully
this is a discussion we'll keep having. Yeah. Uh, speaking
of Rachel Vice uh playing a lesbian character, I guess
it's worth it, just at least mentioning that a lot
of lesbian love stories in mainstream movies have been period

(01:26:10):
pieces about like clandestine relationships that are kind of doomed
from the start because of like the era that they
take place in. I'm thinking of um, I'm thinking of this.
He takes place in two thousand and seven. Right, it
is a period piece. It is a period piece. It
needs to be remember how it used to be. Thank God,

(01:26:33):
it's not like that anymore. But yeah, like I mean
like The Favorite and Portrait of a Lady on Fire
and Carol um So, at least this movie takes place
in the twenty century, because you know, there's there's some
criticism about having like all the mainstream movies about a
lesbian relationship taking place decades, if not hundreds of years ago,

(01:26:56):
um so, and only with sis white women. To Y,
it's just I have an especial softness for the lesbian
period piece as a genre, so I like, I I
feel like I am always trying to defend that genre
because like I personally love it. I just feel like

(01:27:17):
I would rather watch I would rather watch a lesbian
period piece movie with like lush costume and set and
like good writing and compelling characters and a relationship I'm
rooting for regardless of how it ends. Then watch a
movie that takes place in the modern day where people
were close from H and M and it's a shitty
relationship where I hate one of them and I don't

(01:27:37):
want them to be together and I want them to
break up, Like I just one of those. To me,
the line is not modernity versus period It's like, is
it a good movie, Like, did you write a good movie?
Does it make sense? Doesn't make sense? Do we like
any of these people? Do we like a single one
of these people? I did? I dislike Harper Mary viewing,

(01:28:01):
I just referred to The Favorite as my favorite lesbian
holiday romantic comedy. So where's the for rewatching the Favorite?
The Favorite does, for all of its tragedy, it does
fill me with joy, fills me with joy more often
than It's got joyous moments, tremendously joyous moments. The part

(01:28:21):
where she kicks the ship out of the guy in
the forest for like five minutes. It's hilarious. It's so funny.
Every movie should have a five minutes of a woman
kicking a man in the forest. It's just maybe maybe later.
I'm like, I need, I need to rebound from watching
Happiest Season for the third time in two weeks. Yeah,

(01:28:42):
is there anything else we wanted to hit on? That's
That's everything I had. I think. I'm just that there's
cat easier the cats. Cats get talked about, but we
never see cats on screen. Rude, there is cat eraser.
That's totally true. Yeah, why wasn't anyone talking about that?
Why isn't that the main topic of discussion around I

(01:29:03):
want to say something. Oh my god, we didn't talk
about this. The part where um Harper sends Abby the
like sexy selfie she's wearing like a full like shirt
and Brie in bed. That was very revealing to me.
I was like, okay, so the sexy picture she she
is sending her as a fully closed in bed, fully

(01:29:27):
closed thinking of you, like wearing all my clothes. I
was like, okay, that's where we're out. The way they
act around each other, and like, have these women ever
seen each other naked before? Like we just don't know.
I just feel like Kristen Stewart was cold and Harper
is straight. That's a perfect review. Yeah, yeah, that's all

(01:29:49):
I had. All Right, Well, we know it passes the
Vechtel test. Yes, it passes it. But I would venture
to ask, is it worth that for a movie to
pass the Actel test technically if they're not like, arguably, sure,
two women talk to each other about something that's not
a man, but what do they talk about? Yeah? Well,

(01:30:12):
tragic It does tragically pass the Bactel test when Harper
says what about me? And Abby says okay, and that's
just a sign of a flawed metric. Yes, we need more,
we need more ways to measure these things that we're watching.
Oh well, funny you should mention because we have something

(01:30:32):
called the Nipple scale, which is goodness of I mean,
the most important media metric of our time. Um. It
is a scale of zero to five nipples that examines
movies from an intersectional feminist lens and how well the
movie fares um. This one is a lot of a

(01:30:57):
lot of them are tricky. This one's tricky because is
on one hand, it's like a mainstream queer Christmas movie,
kind of the first of its kind in that it
is again mainstream, big studio backing kind of thing. It's
more accessible, but it wants you to root for a

(01:31:18):
queer relationship that is toxic and unhealthy because of Harper,
And I just can't really get behind it. And I
know that Harper is under a lot of stress and
is going through something very difficult of having to be
in the closet around her family and having to hide

(01:31:40):
her authentic self. And I know there are a lot
of people today who aren't out to their families and friends,
and I want to acknowledge that, and I don't think
that that aspect of this story is unrealistic or anything.
And if Harper hasn't felt ready to come out to
her family, that's entirely her choice. But as we've said
said that does not give her an excuse to be

(01:32:03):
so dismissive and mean and unsupportive to her partner. And
the fact that it's also extremely white and sis and
weirdly Republican, it's just it's not the movie we needed
in we've said before, would have made more sense in

(01:32:25):
the context of it coming out in like two thousand
six or something like that would have been groundbreaking pre Obama,
a pre Obama game. Yeah, that's what this feels like
to me. So hopefully this does that thing to like
pave the way even though it feels outdated by by

(01:32:46):
our standards. Maybe this is sort of one of those
like stepping stone movies that we need that paves the
way for more inclusive representation. But yeah, it's just it
feels out day it in the way that it presents
a lot of aspects of the story. So with that
in mind, I hate like doing a split down the

(01:33:10):
middle like two point five nipple rating, but but that
that but but that feels appropriate. I think. I don't know,
I'm so indecisive. You always like you don't do you
always go first, and then you're always like, what should
this is my burden to bear? But yeah, I'll go

(01:33:31):
with a two point five until I'm convinced otherwise by
everyone else's nipple rating, because that's how it always goes. Um. Yeah,
and I'll give my nipples to the reindeer that uh
Christian Stewart has to lean on as she is ice scared.

(01:33:52):
So if feminist icon that reindeer, I'm gonna I'll go.
I'll go a two and a half as well. I
just yeah, I guess, I guess I'll go down the middle.
I don't want to come down unduly hard on this movie,
but it is, you know, it's one of the core
messages is that you should kind of work to appease

(01:34:15):
your like white, Republican homophobic family, and that just is like, well,
then this movie I feel like I feel like we've
been talking about it throughout the entire episode, but it's
just like that's like false advertising. That's not what we
I would like to believe this movie was. I wasn't,

(01:34:35):
but I think that Ultimately, this movie is kind of
for straight parents. Like it's so in that way, it
was a letdown. It's like there's so many missed opportunities
for stronger character connections, for like stakes that make more sense,
that serve the characters and the audience a lot better.

(01:34:57):
There's it just is like messy, and I think Clia
deval can and will do better in the future. Um,
and yeah, I don't know. It just it was it's
it wasn't even happiest and that was in the title.
So that's not fair. Um, yeah, this is like it's

(01:35:18):
it's another movie that is just kind of made to
make white parents feel good about themselves in a way
that just doesn't sit well. So yeah, I'll go two
point five and I'm going to give my nipples to
I guess uh Dan Levie and uh Aprey Plaza. M nice, Jess.

(01:35:43):
What about you? God? Well, I said I'm I said
I was going to be a hater. I said up
top sure that I was going to be a hater.
And I've made it abundantly clear over the course of
this episode. My opinions on this movie, Um, it's got
to be a one nip for me, Like I just
I feel it did not deliver on any of the

(01:36:07):
promises that I was like told from the beginning. I
feel like I I just feel surprised. Like I felt
surprised the whole time. I thought I wasn't gonna like
it because I don't care for romantic comedies, you know.
I didn't think it was gonna like drop like my
own bad experiences, um because like I didn't think it

(01:36:28):
was going to make me remember how it feels to
be queer and alone. Like I was like, that is
kind of the opposite experience of what I was expecting.
And I feel bummed out because it was sort of
like a bias for us type project, and I just
want to hold us. I almost I'm holding us to
a much higher standard. I hold clear duvalto a higher
standard than some like straight man making a lesbian movie

(01:36:51):
because of a straight man gets it wrong or offense
offensive or harmful. I'm like, well, you what do you know?
You don't know anything. Yeah, all of this is with
love and respect, and I just want to put it
out there that should Clear Duval want somebody to look
over script or radical a little punch up, do a
little punch up. I would have loved to punch up
this script. I have ideas the second to it higher Jess, everybody,

(01:37:16):
Everything I do is just just a platform for me
to go and if someone wants to give me a
job here. I forget who said this, but there was
like some at some point in the Twitter discoursed around this,
someone was like, if you're rooting for the couple from
marriage story more than the couple in Happiest Season, that's
really that does not bode well. M m m, yeah, brutal.

(01:37:41):
This movie also kind of operates on the assumption that,
like that the only type of cinematic conflict or like
type of story that queer people would encounter is like
like a coming out narrative. And it's like, well, what
about like right, what about people who are like out
and living their lives right and like contending with like

(01:38:04):
what it is to be what it is to like
really be queer. Not not that people who are closeted
are not really queer, That's not what I'm saying, but
like the whole tension in this movie is about disappearing
into straight world, and like what about people who can't
do that? Yeah? Yeah, we need more movies that normalize

(01:38:24):
queer people's lives and romantic relationships and friendships and careers
and any other aspect of a person's life like what
about queer People? Or like a movie where the tension
with the queer characters is not how they relate to
straightness people, where that's just like not the thing. Well, folks,

(01:38:48):
there you have it our Happiest Season episodes again if
you if you love the movie, all good, but like
you know, consider on your next one much. I hope
you guys put a Christmas soundtrack over this whole thing
to kind of to bring it up, to do what
I wish they had done and Happiest Season put a

(01:39:08):
nice little shingle bell, the teakon and Sarah song. It's
just going to be on repeat. We've got the rights
to it and we're going to just play it under
the whole episode on repeat. Jes thank you so much
for being here and talking about this movie with us.
What is thank you for having me. This was the
happiest season. Where can people follow you online and check

(01:39:33):
out anything you want to plug You can find me
on the internet on Twitter, which is my disgusting domain
at just Tom J E. S. T O M. Or
Instagram at just the Kid j e Yes the Kid,
and the internet is where I live now, so that's
where you'll find me. Indeed, tell you you can follow
us also on the internet at Bechtel Cast on Twitter

(01:39:57):
and Instagram and our patreon k Matreon is at patreon
dot com slash pecktel Cast, and that is where you
can get to bonus episodes every single month for five
dollars a month plus access to the entire back catalog.
What a bargain we did the new Princess Switch you
want to talk about a movie that makes no sense?

(01:40:20):
Princess which to switched again to part to Royals, the
Royal Switching, And then you can take check out our
merchant public dot com slash the Bechtel Cast. Um. I
hope everyone is having I mean, the happiest season of
all yikes. Well, enjoy the rest of the year and

(01:40:43):
we will be back for an episode on New Year's
Eve about the movie New Year's Eve Nightmare. Bye bye,

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