Imagine Me & You with Samee Junio

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the Bell cast, the questions asked if movies have
women in them? Are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands?
Do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef invest start changing
it with the bec Del cast. Hey Jamie, Hey Caitlin. Look,
I know it's your wedding day and you're getting married

(00:22):
to Alfred Molina right now, But yeah, could this weight no?
Because I did your floral arrangements and then I looked
at you and I fell in love with you at
first sight. Wait, I phone in love with you at
first sight. This is gonna be kid suck. We should well,
let's wait a couple of weeks. Jeez, okay, okay, yeah, God,

(00:44):
Alfred is going to so bummed out when he finds out.
He's gonna be so bummed out. He's gonna have to
talk to my precocious kids sister about it on a
roof for some reason. Yeah, and then he's going to
be like, I should have married you in year old kid,
and they're just like, what is this joke that's happening

(01:05):
with the hot guy from Chasing Liberty? Welcome to cast.
My name is Jamie Loftus. I just married Alfred Molina. Congratulations.
My name is Caitlyn Dronte and I will soon be
marrying Jamie Loftus. It's awesome. And and now um and
my my, my funny dad is going to be so supportive.

(01:28):
Your dad? Who is Giles from Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
I didn't watch Buffy the Vampire Slayer, so I did
not know that. Did you know that Matthew Good was
the hot guy from Chasing Liberty? I don't know what
Chasing Liberty is. See, And that's why this is such
a strong partnership. We we compliment each other so well.

(01:49):
We fill in each other's gaps. Wink coo. This is
really This is Caitlin's horney this year, and it's starting
to seep into the vernacular here as well. I won't
deny it. Oh my god, remember when you hit on
it hit on the tech Guy at our show. I

(02:11):
only say that because it was in front of the
audience on Mike. It was it was sort of aggressive.
I did apologize to him afterward and I said, I'm
sorry if that made you uncomfortable. But I did call
back to me hitting on the Tech Guy at a
live show that we did in Los Angeles, several times,
and um, and you think this they actually everyone kind

(02:35):
of did love it, and uh, now we can do
a reverse and I can show up at your wedding
in low rise jeans, uh, with a huge belt that's
like four inches thick. Every outfit that Lena Hetty wars
and this, uh is it's equally baffling and enticing to me.
I really love it. The pants just they're so I

(02:58):
know that that's like just two thousand five in general,
but when you see pants going so dangerously low, it's concerning.
There is like I feel like there's some margin of
error where it's like there's an inch of hip flesh
where it's like stops being sexy and starts being like,
what's going to happen? Like it starts right, it starts

(03:21):
to make me nervous. Yeah. Speaking of the wardrobe, I
wrote down in my notes that this is the scarfyst
movie I've ever seen, and that no less than thirty
different scarves are seen spread across at least a dozen
different characters. It's very scarfy. I didn't notice this scarfys

(03:41):
because I was too busy writing down this horrible joke.
What is this coyote British. Okay, it's the episode of Yes,
thanks for listening. You can you can follow us on Twitter.

(04:03):
Let's get Sammy in here. It's time. Yeah, we gotta
get Sammy in here. So we'll introduce our guests and
then we'll explain what this podcast is. So our guest
today is the senior audio producer at Entertainment Weekly. You
know them from our episodes on She's the Man and
Crazy Stupid Love? Is that even the name of that movie?
Don't remember? And you know them from being our road

(04:27):
dog on various tours. It's Sammy Junio. Welcome back friend. Wait,
is this your jacket appearance? This is this is episode three,
isn't it? This is three? But we are jacket appearances.
We give our out jackets jacket five five? Yeah, and

(04:49):
to be clear, who has a jacket? Followed through on
the jacket promise? We've never given out a jacket. Naomi
has a jacket? Does just just Kenese? Just Kenese has
a jacket? God damn it. That's exciting because now I
think I confuse it with three. She's in the three club, right, correct,
there's a three club, then there's the jacket club, right,
So Sammy you are now in the three club, which

(05:12):
is just the name that I don't get a jacket. No,
we'll give you a little hug. I think I'm busy
now I should believe so Caitlin's horny year. I just
want to hug my friends. I know I've talked about
this on the show before, but I worked very briefly
right after I got out of college at this place.
But I guess will remain nameless because it's still open

(05:33):
for some reason. But they call their employees guest huggers,
and if anyone comes in and they're like, I want
to hug At the time, you had to hug them,
I hate it. And you made eight dollars an hour
and it was four thirty in the morning. How many
hugs did you deal out? I would say I didn't
give out many hugs, but I hugged the same people

(05:56):
over and over. A lot of regulars came in wanting
wanting a hug because the hug is required. Did you
have like limitations around the hugs, like no longer than
three seconds, you can't snuggle in their neck? Like what's
the deal with these hugs? I don't think unless I'm
blocking things out, I don't think I ever had a

(06:16):
problem with like hug duration. It was more the firmness
of the hug and the earliness I felt. I felt
defenseless because it was always five am, and it would
be like a weird old guy would come in and
he's like, I'm here, and you know, so I'm here.
I'm here for my hog, and then you didn't have

(06:37):
to hug him. I don't like that one bit for anyways, Sammy,
that's what we could do for you, thoughts, Okay, yeah,
I'll do it. We're going to have it. I'll pay
you both eight dollars an hour. Sorry, bye, oh thank you? Yeah, yeah,
thanks so much. Um. This is our show in which
we examined movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using the

(06:57):
Bechtel test simply as a jumping off point to get
a converse station going and Jamie, what is that though? Oh? Yeah, um,
well it's this the Bechdel Test. There's a lot of
different versions of it. It was created by queer cartoonist
Alison Bechdel, sometimes called the Bechtel Wallace Test. Our version
of it is this, we require that two characters of

(07:19):
a marginalized gender with names talk to each other about
something other than a man for two lines of dialogue,
and they have to be narratively significant lines of dialogue.
No past the coffee, okay, No, no thank you okay
unless unless that coffee has poison? Yeah? Wow? Should we

(07:41):
write this screenplay? I think I just rewatched Phantom Thread
is that's my cross to bear? Um? The movie recovering
today is Imagine Me and You. It is a two
thou and five British I don't know why I said
British like that, like accusation, British rom com directed by

(08:04):
Mamma Mia. Mama me a man Old Parker ak Mr
Papia MoMA Me and You. That's where he got the
idea to direct Mamma Mia. Wow. What's his name? I
know that he's married to His name is Old park

(08:24):
Yeah he is Mr Dandy Newton. Oh congrats? Yeah yeah,
truly they've been married for a long time. And so
they're at home. I mean, is he called Papa Pia
at home? Compia anywhere? That's what? That's not even my junk.
That's from our MoMA Mia episode with me. Wow, that's
a call back. I think I forgot about. It's a

(08:46):
good jow when she said Papa Pia, it rocked my world.
He I don't think he directed the first one. It
was just Momma, here we go again. Or did he
do both? I think he just did the second one. Yeah,
unless he only wants credit for the second one. No, No,
he's he's directed this. He's directed the best Exotic Mayor,

(09:12):
so he wrote it. I don't think I care. I mean,
he's worth talking about because he, as far as I know,
is a straight man who directed, wrote, and directed this
movie about queer women's so that'll be worth discussing. Perhaps
he didn't do terrible things to them, which is nice true,

(09:35):
but then there's also some choices that were made. I'm like, yes,
a straight guy wrote this movie. I can tell Sammy,
what is your relationship with this movie? This movie was
brought to my attention recently by one of my dear friends,
and I mentioned that I hadn't seen it, and she
said she reacted in that way that like some people

(09:57):
do when you don't you haven't watched like Jurassic Arc
or Back to the Future, and you have to see it,
which usually I shut down and then stop watching movies
for two years because I just don't like that too much,
too much. It's a little too much. But because it
is a piece of queer cinema, I watched it. It's fine,

(10:20):
it's fine. It is fine. Yeah, we'll talk about the
degree to which it is fine. For the record, though,
when you approached me to cover a movie on the
Bachtel cast because of my gayness and you get doing
a rainbow capitalism move by featuring queers in June, I

(10:44):
we're basically the gap and we're like, all of our
shirts are rainbow this month or whatever. It's like, yeah,
we're a bank with a rainbow flag outside. That's terrifying.
And then outside of June, you're awful, right, don't give jerks. Yeah,
I'd say we're the opposite of allies. Right, Okay, So, uh, Jamie,
what is your relationship with this movie? If any, I

(11:07):
didn't really have one. I was aware of this movie
and I had not seen it. It wasn't like honestly,
sometimes I the difference between me ching a movie and
not is is it streaming for free at this exact second.
If the answer is no, then I'm like, well I'll
get around to it, or eventually I'll have to pay

(11:28):
four dollars to watch it for my job, and that
is what has happened here. And I, I mean, I
enjoyed it. I think that like there's there are some
problematic elements to it, but as far as uh, you know,
I generally like rom comms, even when they're corny and
problematic and horrible, and this movie is all three of

(11:51):
those things to some extent, but to less of an
extent than I think your average rom com, which is
pretty impressive. So I enjoyed it. I thought it was lovely.
I also, like, really like the two lead actors in
this movie, so that made it quite easy to watch.
And also they're like I fell down a rabbit hole

(12:12):
of how they're like best friends. And there's all these
cute interviews that they've done together, because they did two
movies together this year, and one was called The Cave
and one was called Imagine Me, and you like we
were so close from the set of the Cave that
we couldn't wait to play a couple. I don't know
what The Cave is about, and I don't care. I'm
guessing it's about a cave that much I feel pretty

(12:36):
sure of. But or it's another queer exploration movie and
the Cave is a puss. Things are getting horny again.
Dang it like that guys Nottle hornytown. Here we go broom.

(13:02):
Oh okay. I had never seen this movie either, and
it wasn't even super on my radar. I was under
the impression that basically every not that this is even
an extremely mainstream movie. But it got like a theatrical release,
not the widest release, but it's like a fairly widest

(13:23):
It's not like an art house movie. It's like a
fairly mainstream British cow wide was the Caves release? I
bet it was a little bit wider and yeah, definitely longer.
You So what was I saying this movie? It was
not super on my radar because I was under the
impression that the most mainstream lesbian movies were period pieces

(13:47):
that ended in sadness and or tragedy. So I was
pleasantly surprised that this is a lighthearted rom com that
has a happy ending. It has a big corny ending
set piece and rething. Oh yeah, parents are French ng
in traffic. You're like, what is going on here? There's
a check offs diaphragm. We'll get into that Forney, So

(14:15):
should I? Should I do the recap of the movie. Actually,
let's take a quick break first, because we've been we've
been yabbing, horny yabs and what wait wait, wait before
we go to this break any it's just when you're
yabbing and gabbing, is yabb even a word? Look, I'm

(14:39):
tired today, so we're gabbing, and it took so long
that we have to go to break. So let's do
that and we'll be right back. And we're back. We're
on fire today. I swear our smoothest episode. It I

(15:00):
feel like I've derailed us. No, no, it's not you, Sam,
it's actually because Caitlin was getting derailed whoke Horney. The
plot of Imagine Me and You is this. We meet Rachel.
That's Piper Parabo. She is getting ready for her wedding.

(15:24):
She's with her mom and dad, Tessa and Ned played
by Celia Emery, I'mory and Anthony Head that's Giles from
Buffy Gile. Also there is Rachel's little sister, Henrietta, and
then also her friends come in Beth and Zena played
by Sharon Horgan and Vanette Robinson. Remember where they made

(15:47):
the kids fall in love. Sorry, there when they hate it, creepy, creepy.
I hate it so much. Here is h actually Rachel's
little sister, because when they're walking, he's a carnival bonfire thing.
She's with another adult and she's like, I'm not your mother.
I was really curious about that too, because she only

(16:10):
has adult friends. This little girl, this nine year old girl,
doesn't have any friends her age except for a boyfriend
she gets later. She only hangs out with adults. The
woman who is like, I'm not your mom is her
friend Beth. It's such a bizarre addition to the movie.
But there is a little sister, Henrietta. It is I
feel like the mid two thousand's was the peak of

(16:32):
this just like garbage trope of like I'm a kid
and all my friends are adults, that I'm really smart
and listen to my vocabulary and do you believe in
love at first sight? And you're like, oh my god,
it's not the kid's fault, but I feel sick. What's
an unstoppable face? Oh my god? Kind of to be
my best friend, says Elanista. I was like, what the

(16:55):
fund is happening? Yeah, she should be shamed. For a
friend and spending all of her free time with a
child who she's not related to. Wait, hold on one
more thing before we talk about did you both see
the fact about Click? Yes on the Wikipedia page. Oh, Sammy,

(17:17):
I feel like you'll like this. This movie was originally
called click because they click, and then they had to
change it because of the movie Click, which is about
Stanley with a remote control that changes the course of time.
I feel like that's a It was a good pivot

(17:37):
because I feel like probably it would have been called click.
Oh sure, no one thought of that, And I honestly think,
you know, if there was a movie that needed the
title click more, I think that it was the movie
about movie Click feels more integral to the premise. Yeah. Anyways,

(18:02):
how what happens in the movie, So okay, So we
see Rachel getting ready for her wedding. Then we cut
to loose. That's Lena Hetty. She is a florist who
did the floral arrangement for this upcoming wedding. We see
everyone arriving at the wedding. We meet the groom, Hector
a k A. Heck is what everyone calls him. So British.

(18:26):
One thing that confused me about Hector is that he
got so or Heck, I guess we have to call
him heck Um. Is that they established him as being
very shy, like he's too shy to make his speech
at the wedding, but then for the rest of the
movie he's in fact very outgoing. So there are a
lot of that all about public speaking is is horrifying though,

(18:50):
that's true, But then he like was accosting people at
the grocery store, where he's just like, are you gay?
At the girl? I was like, this feels like a
different person to me at grocery outing. What a what
a trope? What was going on there? Still, I still
think that public speaking is is horrifying, and there's a
big difference between that and outing people on the grocery store.

(19:11):
Fair enough, Heck really loves to out people. At least
every other scene it happens. It happens so frequently it
kind of becomes his thing. It's really bizarre. Yeah, so
there's that. He is played by Matthew Good. The wedding
starts and as Rachel is walking down the aisle, she

(19:35):
makes eye contact with Loose love It. They give each
other a little look. It cute. I love it. At
the reception, Loose introduces herself to Rachel. She helps like
fish Rachel's wedding ring out of a glass bucket full
of some kind of drink. This scene, it's a fun scene. Also,

(19:58):
here's some things about that whole scene. Number one, Loose
already just wraps her arm around Rachel, like immediately to
move her in front of her while she's fishing the
punch out. So touchy. Doyd love it. Yes? Is it inappropriate? Also? Yes?
And then also if you're going elbow deep into anything

(20:19):
or anyone. She didn't take off any she didn't wipe
off her arm. She knew how far she had to
go in. She didn't wipe off her she didn't take
off her jewelry, which was the whole problem. Also, was
it explained how the ring even got in there. She's like,
it's in there. It's like, how did it know? Who
put it there? She just dropped it in because you

(20:40):
didn't want to be married to her? Straight as heck.
She made a mistake, immediately knew it. Yeah, I guess
that's foreshadowing her wedding ring falling off. She also she
does play with it at the end, spoiler alert. And
she's just like, it's still not tied on her finger
because it's just like flopping around anyway. You can't be

(21:01):
having a floppy wedding ring. Yeah, doesn't bode well. I
do like when Lena Hetty, Lena Hetty gives that jerky
guy that heck works with a clammy handshake, and I
giggled giggled at the clammy handshake. There was a sound
effect it was like and it was gross. There's also

(21:23):
the thing of like, uh, I forgot all of their
names just now, Rachel Loose Loose instinctually put the ring
back on Rachel's finger, and Rachel there was like, no,
there's no like shock of oh, she's touching me, Like
she's just like I put it on as your hand
is behind your back and I don't know. They were
being rascally. I loved it. I'm realizing that I mix

(21:45):
up this guy, Matthew Good with another British guy who
was hot around the same time named Hugh Dancy. Oh
isn't Hugh Dancy the guy and Ella enchanted? Or no? Yes, okay,
they're just like generically it's hard to keep generically hot
guys straight. Sometimes true Also, I think Hugh Dancy is

(22:08):
married to oh gosh, I forgot her name, Claire Danes. Okay,
oh yeah, he is big win for Hugh. She's Matthew
Good's wife doesn't even have a Wikipedia page. It makes
me sick, loser, I all right, but I just need
to barrel through this. Okay. So we see Loose helping

(22:32):
Rachel with her floppy wedding ring, and then we see
them like vibing. You know, they're they're they're connecting. We
also see a bunch of men try to hit on Loose,
such as Heck best Man, Coop and then that sleazy
guy that you were talking about Jamie's names Rob, but

(22:52):
take Coop, Heck, Loose Um Coop socks and I hate
that the movie tries to make us think that he
doesn't suck. Yeah, I think that's That was one of
the more glaring things for me was being asked to
root for Coop. Yeah, can't, can't do it. So all
these guys are hitting on Loose, but she doesn't seem
to be into any of them. Then, one day after

(23:15):
the wedding, Rachel comes into Loose's flower shop and thanks
her for doing a good flower job. At the wedding.
At what wedding does the florist hang out the entire
time and has such a presence that a child befriends
them and then come for their number. I don't understand this.

(23:39):
How did they stay in contact this child and this
adult right in two thousand and five? No, less like
would have been very difficult. I also, I mean there's
so many like this is such a rom COMI rom
com like down to the fact that her job is florist.
You're like, really, we couldn't do at least you see
her doing her job and it's not just like, what's

(24:01):
a rom com job? She curates things at museum, but
she has a flourish Do we know what Rachel does?
I believe she's a journalist, but we only see one
scene in which she is doing work journally. But your diary, Yeah,
she's she's writing into her diary. UM. I made note
of this that the movie cares way more about hex

(24:24):
job because we see him at work, we're talking about
work or something relating to his work, and not just
his current job but his like dream job that gets
talked about constantly. And then Rachel's job is just like
what does she do again? You see her at an
office a bunch. I didn't realize that she was doing journalism.
There's that scene where she seems to be like editing

(24:46):
a piece that either someone else wrote or that she wrote.
You'd be funny if she was like solving the Zodiac
case and just the movie was not interested in there,
just like she won a Pulitzer the next year, not
the the plot of the movie was very interested in that.
I love that he also hex job. I don't know,
like what I'm sure I I sort of understand like

(25:09):
where they weren't going by being like he's got to
make changes in his life question Mark. But like, I
don't know why we're seeing this man at work doing
business deals and being like, I hate business deals four
point one temperatures. What are you doing? I think he's

(25:30):
day trading crypto. Do you think Papa Pia really knew
what he was writing down when he wrote that down?
I don't think. So. I don't know this job, my
my just stay stuffing the phone. I don't know go on, Oh, okay,
So Rachel goes to lose his flower shop and she's like, hey,

(25:50):
come to dinner with me and my husband. We'll see
you Friday, and she's and loses, like sounds great. So
then Rachel tells Heck about these dinner plans, and she
reveals that she is trying to set up Loose with Coop,
that guy who is like hecks friend slash best man.

(26:12):
And this is a part of the movie that don't
try to find any logic here, because there isn't any,
because what has happened already is that Coop at the
wedding was aggressively hitting on Loose, even more aggressively than
I was hitting on the tech guy at that show.
That's that's actually a good yardstick to use moving forward,

(26:34):
more or less aggressive of that as that night downtown,
way more aggressive than that because he was like groping
her on the dance floor and like being really sleezy
was disgusting. So he has already expressed ample interest in Loose. Meanwhile,
Rachel is like, yeah, I'm trying to set them up.
I think they would be a great match, which, first

(26:55):
of all, what is your judge of character, Rachel, if
you think that Coop is all a good person? And secondly,
why are you trying because she's like, oh my gosh,
do you think Coope likes Loose. I hope he does,
and it's like he's already said a million times he does.
So there's just like a really weird plot hole. I

(27:16):
don't know if there's like a missing scene or what.
Done that made sense? The closest I could get to,
like finding some logic in there was like, I don't know.
I feel like I've seen this happen before. Is like
if you have a like if someone has a crush
on someone else while they're in a relationship, They're like,
I've got to pair this person off. I gotta get

(27:38):
this person into a relationship so they're not tempting to
me anymore. I've seen that happen in friend groups, where
it's like we need to neutralize the situation. But this
is like friends and not a florist you met for
a couple hours at your wedding. That's the other thing, right,
It's like I keep forgetting they're actually not friends, that
they don't know each other. But you wouldn't know that

(28:00):
based on what happens in the movie, because both Heck
and Rachel are acting as though Loose is a very
close friend of theirs, but they didn't meet until the wedding,
and Loose doesn't appear to have friends except for the
friend from the grocery store, like Loose has friends, but
only when it's plot convenient. Right. The relationships in this

(28:22):
movie in general, and the way they are established and
pan out, often make absolutely no sense. But the point
here is that Rachel is trying to set up Loose
with Coop, and she really hopes that Coop likes Loose.
She doesn't really care if Luke, like Loose likes Coop.

(28:45):
There's too many consonant sounds here. She doesn't care if
Lucy Coop, which is also like maybe this is like
a two five haircut, like men's haircut back then, we're
not very good. But they kept talking about Coop like
well who could resist? And I'm like, I'm sorry, easily

(29:06):
feel like many of us good because his personality is
also dogshit and his hair cut it looks like you
went through the Casper machine. Okay, oh that's the best
burn on the entire world burn, thank you. So that's happening.

(29:27):
But then also Rachel is like, yeah, I have this
feeling the Luce and I are going to be really
good friends. Were just like we're kind of soul mates,
but in a friend way, so so she reveals that
to Heck. Then Loose comes over for dinner and reveals

(29:47):
to Heck that she is gay, which Heck reveals to
Coop immediately everyone he's ever met so many people. But
then Coop is like, oh, well, I can switch people
from being gay to being into me fucking childish, and

(30:08):
he does this constantly throughout the movie as well, and
again where it's like, I'm sorry, we're supposed to be
We're supposed to find this guy compelling at all, because like,
we don't want him to get hit by a car, right.
I had to when that started coming up. I had
to remind myself how close in proximity this movie came
out to Geelie, a movie in which that is the

(30:32):
entire premise. Yeah, wow, so I almost forgot. Unfortunately, this
kind of rhetoric was um so tolerated in the Bush
administration years that you could make a whole movie about it.
It is true. Okay, So they're all at dinner and

(30:53):
everyone is discussing the idea of like love at first
sight versus falling in love with someone gradually, and they
all kind of figure out where they stand on that,
and I'm I guess this is supposed to be like, yeah,
this is the theme of the movie, but it's like
very clunky and like not very well done. Where do
we stand on this whole thing? Well, as um, someone

(31:16):
who's experiencing their horny ist year, I believe in horny
at first sight. Damn m what about you, Sammy. I
think it's like a it's probably a horny at first sight,
but there is like that that vibe thing that happens,
uh sometimes with like with Rachel and Luis, which is like,

(31:38):
oh fuck, now the rest of my day and possibly
weak is ruined because I'm going to be thinking about you.
Is it essentially love? No, But I think that a
lot of people confuse it with that. But like you know,
when you see somebody and you're like, oh fuck, I'm
obsessed with you. I think my life has changed. But
you're not going to say that immediately. You might say

(31:58):
it later. Speak for yourself. Corny, corny alert because are
adding a fog horn sound effect a fog horn. It's
so HORNI al arms Jamie your thoughts. I believe in
it because I suck. I'm corny. I do believe in it.

(32:22):
I I think I don't believe in it. Like every
time someone says it happens, sometimes they have to, um,
you know, like just go to therapy sometimes. But other
times I do think it's possible. I have experienced it
and then I ended up in a really long relationship. Okay,
that's so nice. So it doesn't mean it has to

(32:42):
be good good or end well to count, right, No,
one like that's a common misconception. True, I believe in it,
but I also don't think it's like, um, I feel
like it's overblown of like it's not a must, right,
A slow burn is good. You can also try horny
at first sight. Just a thought. I I think I

(33:03):
should try more horny at first sight because it sounds
it sounds less punishing, it's pretty fun. Okay. So Coop
gives Loose a ride home from the dinner and she confides, Yeah,
it's creepy. He's again aggressively hitting on her the whole time.
She confides in him that she's into someone, but that

(33:27):
person has already partnered and by this point, we the
audience can assume that it's Rachel who she's into. We
saw the poster right. Also, Coop's hand is on Loose's
butt on the poster for the movie. Don't know if
we caught that it's true. He's like, canonically the worst.

(33:49):
It's just wild. He's awful. Then Rachel and Heck, because
don't forget his name is Heck. They run into Loose
at the supermarket when she's with another woman, Eadie, who
I think we also saw earlier at the very beginning
of the movie at the flower shop. Yeah, so they're friends,

(34:09):
and Heck is like, Rachel, you know your friend Luce. Well,
she's gay, by the way. And then they run into
eat Loose and Eadie again and he's like, hey, Eadie,
are you gay? So he's just like loudly Mr shy,
not respecting boundaries, screaming top of his lungs at the

(34:31):
grocery store. I just gay as a tennis player. Yes,
that is a line of dialogue. I hate to see
Papa Pia. What are you doing? So Eadie reveals that
she and Loose are just friends, they're not dating, and
then Rachel seems to start questioning things about herself, about

(34:54):
love in general, perhaps even about her relationship with Heck.
Nigay um okay. So then everyone goes to Rachel's sister,
Henrietta's school play slash science presentation. I'm not really sure
what it is. What weird excuse was there for Loose

(35:15):
to be there because Henrietta asked Luce? I helped her. Yeah,
LuSE helped Henrietta with the project because they're best friends.
Question Mark, so weird, so sinister? When did you access
this child? When did this child come in contact with
you long enough to I hate asking questions of a
movie like this, but I just cannot handle it. I

(35:38):
cannot suspend much suspension of disbelief, and I can suspend
not to brag, but I can suspend my disbelief. We've
seen it, We've seen it happen. I saw Doctor Strange,
So I think I know a thing or two about
my disbelief because it felt real. Let me um. One

(36:03):
of the like conventions of rom coms is that the characters,
and specifically the romantic interests, usually bump into each other
very conveniently, very plot device e very often. So it's
not out of like the realm of you know, being

(36:24):
able to suspend your disbelief for a rom com that
these characters are running into each other, but the way
the movie justifies that they're running into each other is
what is absolutely wild and makes no sense ever. Just
have her like have a niece in the like there's
there's so many ways to have this be a like corny,

(36:48):
forced together rom com thing that I love without her
being best friends with a nine year old? Why keep
the kids out of it? Yeah? Why is the kid
even there? So I know I can like suspend my
just like Lena Hetty is a very like talented actress,
but sometimes you're like, get Sarcey away from that kid.

(37:08):
She's got a bad track record, true wow, pushing kids
out of windows and everything, you know, like, let Cercy
Lanister that close to your fourth grader? Good luck, honey, scary? Okay.
So Rachel and Loose are at this like science presentation

(37:28):
of Henrietta's and Rachel fantasizes about getting close to Loose
and touching her hair and maybe even kissing her. So horny,
very good. I did like that so good. I screamed
the first time, second time and third time I watched it.
They're saying, you're right, Jamie. There scenes making so horny
that like almost the rest of the movie being awful,

(37:49):
is okay? It doesn't matter if it gets bad five
seconds after. But yeah, that scene I really enjoyed, and
even though a lot of it, You're right, Sammy was
inappropriate an overly touchy. I did love the punch ball
scene also so good. I would do it absolutely. I mean,
we haven't even gotten to the diaphragm scene, so just

(38:10):
you wait, ye had the second time Loose grabs Rachel's underbreast. Wow,
I'm horne while someone else is on the train to Hornytown.
We are okay. So Rachel is having this fantasy about

(38:32):
nuzzling up with Loose, and then Rachel tries to talk
to Loose about her feelings, but Loose kind of runs away,
and it seems like she doesn't want to be responsible
for tearing apart anyone's relationship, and specifically Rachel's relationship with
Heck Yeah, for some reason, she tells Coop She's like,
guess what guy who won't stop harassing me? I don't

(38:55):
believe in messing with other people's relationships because they're supposed
to be friends, question Mark, And You're like, yeah, they
become friends, and it's like, why this guy sucks so bad? Right?
She probably has other friends. D like Luce has horrible
tasted friends as because she becomes friends with a fourth

(39:16):
grader and a guy who stops actually harassing her in
the course of this movie. And you're like, you already
have friends, and your mom seems really nice, and and
the one friend that she does have who seems age
appropriate and who doesn't mistreat her is dy and we
barely see that relationship on screen. Yeah, and she's one

(39:37):
of the only other few queer characters in the movie.
So although the way that she grabbed her in the
grocery store and was just like I tried, there's also
probably some weirdness there. Yes, I thought that was weird. Yeah,
it stresses me out. Everything's a mess in this movie. Sorry, Kaitlyn,
you did almost say characters on your characters, and I

(40:00):
just wanted I just wanted to make sure we um acknowledge.
We acknowledged it, and now it's out there, and if
our audience wants to take that into their vernacular save
half a second of time, they're welcome to do so.
Merged coming possibly Crecters. I don't know want that on

(40:22):
our permanent record. I think you should. Okay, So then
Rachel goes to a video store and rents and I
couldn't tell if this was specifically a lesbian porn movie,
but it's a porn movie and her mom catches her
while she's renting it. Heck catches her while she's watching it.

(40:42):
Each time she plays it off is like a mistake
or it's research or something silly. I accidentally brought four
pornography films on vhs back to my flat. We all
can relate, you know why? I said pornography films gen
So sometimes that will happen. Also, it's two thousand and six.

(41:04):
You have the internet, right, Yeah? No one told her
about whatever website people were on a two thousen six?
Was it red Tube? Was that Red Tube era? Yeah?
I don't. I mean, what, how do you know, Sammy?
That was a test on the game positive for Horny

(41:25):
Horny Town. Okay. Heck notices that Rachel has been a
bit distant lately, and he's kind of trying to maybe
spice things up or figure things out. Meanwhile, Rachel continues
to think about Loose. Then Heck has to bail on
plans that he had with Rachel, so he asks their

(41:48):
new best friend Loose again. This relationship is very weird,
but he's like, hey, Loose, will you take my wife
out in my place? And then she does so. Rachel
and Loose to a soccer game where Loose grabs Rachel's
diaphragm and teaches her how to yell really loudly. Don't worry.

(42:12):
That comes back in a check offs. Diaphragm our favorite
term right up there with characters. So that happens and
they they're touching their vibing. Then they play D d
R together. Arcade is so horny? Horny is play to

(42:32):
arcades for dates? Yeah? D d R ist hied with
the classroom space presentation scene for things that made me
the horny ist in the movie outside of kissing. Outside
of kissing, of course, but sorry, I'm a version, so
this is a difficult episode for me. Yeah, of course,

(42:54):
although I wish, I mean, I wasn't shocked because of
just how any like non hetero romances treated ratings wise,
But this movie was rated R How absurd is that? Oh? Yeah,
like it could and they said it was because they
say funk a lot, which isn't untrue. But you're like

(43:14):
you could almost argue PG like outside of like some
heavy petting, which I know that's like, but even there's
been people make out in PG movies. I just was like,
I can't believe this was rated R. It's ridiculous. Titanic
is rated PG, and we see bear Titty is not
rated PG. Sorry, not PG. There's a nipple in it.

(43:37):
Sorry I went to SAG there's two nipples in it.
There's two nipples. If anything, this movie is should be
rated PG thirteen. The fact that it's rated R, I
think has a lot to do with something we've talked
about on the podcast before and something that is the
topic of the documentary. This film is not yet rated,

(43:57):
where oftentimes queer relationships and queer sex scenes will earn
like an R or an n C seventeen rating, even
though they will virtually look identical to a hetero sex scene.
But because it's like it's yeah, it's it's just like

(44:20):
straight up homophobic, like I'm just kidding, I'm just kiddea.
And then it's also it's like and the fall out
of that is it just like limits who can see
people's access to the movie and distribution and all that. Yeah. Yeah,
I was like, man, it's it's just simply not narrated movie,
not even a little bit. Okay, So they're at the

(44:42):
end of their little soccer game slash d DR date
and Rachel almost kisses Loose, but Rachel pulls away at
the last minute and then goes inside in front of
her house. Yeah, yes here, So Lose doesn't say hey,

(45:03):
did you just try to kiss me in a way
that if someone had done that to me, I would
be like, hey, did you just killing your brave? Thank
you so much. I would have been like, what, sorry, Sorry,
I got in my face, got in the way your face.
I actually really shouldn't even be here because I've never
had sex before me showing up anywhere. They almost kiss,

(45:30):
but then they don't, and then Rachel tries to have
sex with Heck in a park I think, to like
liven up their sex life, but it doesn't pan out.
What was going on in that scene? That scene was
so bizarre and also like excessively British. What ah, Papa,

(45:52):
I don't papa, Pia really really confused me there, Yeah,
because they encounter to game men are two queer men
who are also having sex in a park. I have
the same first name, and they're dressed identically enough, and

(46:15):
I get that there's like a that is a thing,
and that there's like a historical president for game and
having sex in a place like a park. But it
just felt like it was like making a weird joke
of everything. And then right that whole scene was so
bizarre and like polite and sexless that you're just like,
what am I watching? It reads very weird. Why they

(46:38):
dress the men in the same outfit, the same brown sweater.
It was like, I don't know, Tweedlede energy to in
the costuming department that day, not sure what was happening.
They're like, we ran out of scarfs. We used up
all the scarves on the characters. We're going to give
them matching scarfs as well, but unfortunately Lena Hetty is

(47:01):
only wearing scarfs today, so we're fresh out. Yeah, okay,
So then Rachel goes to Loose's flower shop and she's like,
whatever is happening between us, it has to stop, and
so she tries to end things. But then two seconds
later she comes back and kisses Loose and they're making

(47:22):
out and it's getting steamy and we see that close her.
Oh yes, I disliked how I don't know. This movie
is so British even the it's it's as British as
Piper Parabo is not um. I was wondering, and I
want to hear what are like English listeners think about

(47:44):
her accent in this movie. I can't tell how good
of a job she's doing. What didn't like bother me?
But yeah, it's like we're not purveyors of the accent.
But I liked when Lena Hetty was like, I have
thhoned in my bum. You're like, wow, what a British
way to say. True. Okay, so they're making out. It's
getting steamy, but then Heck comes in and Rachel hides

(48:07):
in the back and overhears Heck telling Loose his concerns
about how he's doing something wrong in his relationship, which
makes Rachel feel super guilty that she's not being honest
with him, so she runs off. And it also is
bizarre because Heck does not know Lose very well, and
here he is in the flower shop saying, I think

(48:30):
my marriage is falling apart. What do you think They're
putting a lot of pressure truly? Yeah, for someone that
they just like forced into a French like, it doesn't
feel like their friendship happens organically at all. It's very bizarre.
So Rachel runs off and Loose chases after her, and

(48:50):
Rachel's like, I can't do this, So they kind of
say goodbye and part ways. We see Rachel being bummed
about this. We see Loose being bummed about this. Heck
is having a bad time at work. He quits his job.
Everyone's having their low point one point seven. He was crying.

(49:10):
He's like, you liar, and I lied to quit. What
are you? Like? What are you doing on the phone?
He's like, I bet it's something really fucked up? Maybe okay.
In my headcanon, Rachel is solving the Zodiac killer case. Meanwhile,

(49:35):
her husband is on the phone with the Zodiac killer,
bargaining with him being his accomplice. Whoa people killed? He's negotiating,
he's agociating it down. This is how many you can
get away with? Point six. I love this. This is

(49:56):
let's keep it going. Let's talking about this for another
twenty minutes. Yeah, okay, so everyone's having their low point.
Loose confides in her mom about Rachel. Rachel talks to
Heck about how she has fallen for someone else, but
she plans to stay with him because he is her

(50:16):
best friend. But then Coop shows up at Loose's flower
shop and confronts her about meddling in Rachel and Hex's relationship,
and he calls her, I think a dumb slut. So
we think that's awesome. Rachel finds out that Loose is

(50:37):
going on a long holiday through Henrietta, who is on
the phone with Luce. Right. What it's like that that
child has one of those phones that can only dial
out to the police and the parents phone number, but
instead it's the police and Loose and Louse. Wow, Okay,

(50:58):
I don't hate it. Okay, so so sorry, it's just
sinking in for me. Uh, we're really coining a lot
of phrases today due to our lack of access to reality.
We're doing so well. I think we're doing great. So

(51:19):
Rachel learned this about Loose, that she's going away on holiday,
and then that like prompts Heck to be like, I
can't do this. I'm leaving. I'm not going to stand
in the way of your chance to be happy with
someone else, Rachel. So she's like, okay, cool, and then
her parents are like what's going on? And Rachel is like,

(51:40):
I'm in love with Luce, but I don't think anything's
going to happen, and Rachel's dad is like, well, you
should go after her, So they all pile in the
car and go to Loose's flower shop, but Luse's mom
is like, she's not here, but let's go get her.
So then they get back in the car and try
to intercept Loose on her way to the airport were
question mark not really sure, but they're all stuck in traffic,

(52:05):
including Loose in her taxi. So then Rachel calls Loose
on the phone and realizes she's nearby because she hears
a cyclist singing imagine me and you so happy. She
hears that on Loose's end of the phone, and then

(52:27):
she actually hears the cyclist singing a few seconds later
as he passes, so Rachel's like, oh my gosh, she's nearby.
So she gets on the roof of the car and
yells out really loudly, just like Loose taught her in
the diaphragm scene, where she's like, use your diaphragm to
yell and Loose here's it, and gets out of the

(52:48):
taxi and then they run toward each other and they
kiss on the street. I just thought about how funny
it would be if instead of your winker number nine,
that Rachel just did the horn foghorn. Just okay, sorry,
go ahead, it's good. It's good. Um. So they kissed

(53:10):
on the street. And then as the credits roll, we
see Heck traveling and he meets another woman. We see Coop,
who has apparently settled down and had a baby. We
see Rachel and Louse and they are so happy together.
And that's the story. So let's take a quick break.

(53:32):
And I'm so sorry to interrupt your singing, Sammy, but
we do have to leave immediately and go to a
break and we'll be right back, and we're back due.
When they played that song in Freaky Friday, but they

(53:54):
turned it into a rock song, I don't remember that
seeing a few bars, if you will, okay, Instead of
imagine me I do, it sounded more like imagine me
and you. I do you know like rock music. Oh,

(54:16):
if you've heard that version of the song, I did
a pretty good job imagine me and you. I think
about you every day. Are nine. It's only right to
think about the girl you. Oh there die so happy
to get beautiful. And then the guys in the background.
You're like, Oh, it's good, alright, So shall we talk

(54:40):
about this movie thoughts. This movie, which is I think
it is called Click Click Imagine Her and her. My
first thought on this movie was that there is a
hot dog representation is almost confusingly high. Um do. Only
thing we know about Rachel's father is that he loves

(55:03):
his family and but not his not his wife, his wife.
Not his wife, hates his wife right until the until
at the end where he's like, actually they hate each other.
They hate each other here. But he does love hot dogs.
He loves hot dogs. That's the thing that he loves purely.
He can't love his daughter if he thinks about the

(55:26):
fact that she's most likely not a virgin. That makes
him sick. Yeah, what did he say? He said, I
can't talk about my daughter because all I can think
about is you putting your hand in my daughter or
something like that. Very weird. It was something like, is
that something people? I mean, not to mention your parents,

(55:46):
but is that like something that people even that just
wouldn't be my go to phrase to even express that thought.
What if he's like, get your hot dog out of
my daughter, get your hot dog out of my m Yeah,
I don't need to con tinue the sentence. No do
it um Okay. So this is a queer rom com

(56:07):
from two thousand five. I'm not going to say a
qualm con qualm call uh. And it was written and
directed by a man. I don't know exactly what his
sexuality is, but he is married to a woman and

(56:30):
that's all we know. So I can't I don't want to,
you know, make any assumptions here, but it's a movie
from two thousand five, meaning it could go a lot
of ways. I was like, there's probably some very dated
things here. There's probably some like weird trophy things happening,
and there are, but there are also a lot of
things that I was pleasantly surprised by. Again, not knowing

(56:53):
really anything about the movie before watching it to prep
for this episode, and knowing some of the existing kind
of tropes and context surrounding lesbian movies, I was pleasantly surprised.
It is a movie set in contemporary times, so it's
not a period drama. It isn't tragedy porn the way

(57:16):
that a lot of again, you know, like mainstream lesbian
films have been in the past few years, there's a
happy ending where the lesbian lovers get together at the
end and presumably stayed together, and they're like generally accepted
by all their friends and family. I mean there are
I feel like Coope and Rachel's mom are the most

(57:41):
problematic unless I'm missing someone, but they seem to be
the most problematic about the relationship. Yeah, for Coop, I think,
you know, being the worst offender by far, because he
was like I just saw Jeelie and you won't believe
you know, the lies I believe. But but yeah, generally
like accepted and and and so happy together. One could

(58:05):
even say, or the way I choose to say it,
which is so happy to do. But yeah, that that
is something. Because of the like time and place where
they are, we don't have to see the characters deal
with extreme rampant homophobia. Of course, there are micro and

(58:30):
macro aggressions against them from particular characters, but by and large,
people are accepting them. Although you do have like all
those weird moments of like Heck outing loose to everyone
he's ever met. There's there's weird things like that going on,
but it's I guess not the worst example I've seen

(58:54):
also it might not be fair to call Loose and
Rachel lesbian lovers because it's entirely possible that Rachel is bisexual. Yeah,
I kind of I'm curious whatever with that. I kind
of appreciated that that was, like because I know that
like public discourse in two thousand five, always as my
child self was aware of it, is like the conversation

(59:18):
around bisexuality was basically non existent, and so I thought
that there would be very like dated trophy like pick
a side kind of conversation surrounding Rachel, and I kind
of appreciate I mean, for the time it came out
that that wasn't a big discussion and that wasn't something
that was like like it wasn't I guess it was

(59:39):
like it just like wasn't called into questions like whether
she had ever loved or been attracted to her husband,
which I don't know. I thought it was, like, I
just I wasn't expecting that move for a movie that
came out in two five. Yeah. Yeah, I really appreciate
that they didn't, like they didn't lean into stare areotypes

(01:00:00):
to make it like palatable for the straight audience either,
like they didn't like, Oh, Louis is a lesbian, so
here are these lesbian things she definitely does because she's
a lesbian straits. It was nice. Sure. I was also
pleasantly surprised that Loose when you meet her, is already
and out lesbian, because a lot of times I think

(01:00:22):
a trope in queer romance stories is and like not
to discredit or like invalidate people discovering themselves and you know,
questioning and you know, discovering their sexuality, because of course
that is completely valid and an authentic experience for many people.
But I know that there is a frustration about a

(01:00:44):
lot of queer cinema that many queer characters are not
already out and living their queer lives, and the representation
excused pretty heavily on characters who are in the closet
and or who haven't come out yet at the beginning
of the movie, and a lot of movies focus on
coming out stories, which I guess this movie sort of

(01:01:07):
does with Rachel's character. But I just appreciate that Luce
is already out. Yeah, she's like out to her mom,
no problem, Like, it's just it's a very chill environment.
Her mom's just like, get out there in Date, and
then Lena Hetty's like you get out there in Date,
and then they both do the end, the end. I

(01:01:30):
was surprised that we see women kissing each other on
screen multiple times, especially because again another cinematic convention you see,
especially in movies of this era with queer characters. Maybe
the characters were allowed to be out, but often they

(01:01:52):
wouldn't have any kind of romance or romantic partner, and
if they did, we were also not allowed We were
not allowed to actually see them kiss or be physically
intimate in any way. So the fact that this movie
and it would be absolutely ridiculous if they weren't allowed
to because like rom coms have people kissing. That's one

(01:02:12):
of the conventions of the genre, and it shouldn't be
surprising that this happens. But because of the precedent that
had been set of queer characters not being allowed to
show physical intimacy on screen, I found myself surprised that
again in a movie from two thousand five, we actually
see them kissing on screen. I am I went back

(01:02:35):
and watched some of the like DVD extras and like
press junkets from this movie because I was just curious
of because, as far as I know, Piper Parabout and
Lena Hetty are both straight actors as far as we know,
and certainly at this time they were very publicly publicly straight.
There's gonna be a better way to say that. But

(01:02:56):
but I wanted to watch interviews with them, and something
that didn't occur to me that came up in every
single interview was this movie came out the same year
as Brokeback Mountain. In Brokeback Mountain comes up in every
single interview, and they're very annoyed by it. Where I
don't know, I mean, I think it's like to me,
it almost spoke to like how little queer cinema there

(01:03:20):
was in like a I guess because because this movie
was not huge, Brokeback Mountain was huge. Um, but in everything,
they're like, why don't you have as much sex in
this movie as they have in Brokeback Mountain. They're kind
of like, it's a different genre, Like rom coms are
usually pretty sexless. So yeah, I thought that this this

(01:03:40):
had about the amount of sex and kissing that your
average rom com does, and possibly slightly more because they
kissed more than one time, right, right, because normally in
a a hetero rom com they don't kiss until the
very end. It depends on the story, of course, but
like that's pretty standard. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It just it
connect for me that this was like the year of

(01:04:03):
Brokeback Mountain, and Brokeback Mountain comes up as if it
were the only other queer movie to ever exist, and
Lena Hetty and Piper parable just kind of don't know
what to do with the question. They're like, yeah, it's
a round com. We're friends. We met on the cave
and but another thing, and we were talking about this

(01:04:27):
a little bit, Sammy, when you and I watched part
of this movie together together unhappily on what Okay, I'm joking.
You brought up that the movie tends to avoid the
predatory lesbian trope. I don't know what to make of

(01:04:48):
the soccer game slash yelling slash diaphragm scene because there
I don't know, but I tend to agree that that
the movie does tend to avoid the trope. But I
feel like the diaphragm scene isn't like if they were
going to lean into the predator lesbian trope, Luce would

(01:05:09):
essentially be coope like it's that sure, not like because
I feel like the diaphram thing, like as I guess,
as we were about Loose touching Rachel where she did,
I'm stuttering because I'm horny about it. Um we you
me horn um. Like they didn't shoot it in a

(01:05:30):
way where it seemed like Loose was doing it for
the reason of just touching all over her new married friend, right, yeah,
and then Rachel is like, we'll put both of your
hands on me. Yeah that or like, oh, Rachel, but
it should be as I don't know, I mean, it

(01:05:53):
is the spitla of my scene of the movie and Jamie,
as you just said, put your hands on me, Loose loose,
I felt like, yeah for that, I mean, I definitely
think that that's a very two thousand five e and all,
But it felt more like a rom com thing that
like that would have happened in a rom comm in

(01:06:14):
two thousand five, regardless of the gender of true the
people involved, Like you could see Hugh Grant doing that
in two thousand five in a rom com easily of
just like you know, he probably does it in notting
Hill for all I know. Yeah, I the diaphragm thing
felt like a rom com issue more so than a
predatory lesbian trope in my opinion. Yeah, I see that,

(01:06:40):
and like it's not even though that. You know, you
watch this movie and you're like, Wow, let's congratulate the
movie for avoiding what should just be of avoided in
a narrative. But at the same time, because so many
harmful tropes have been established, I still couldn't help but

(01:07:00):
be again pleasantly surprised by what the movie does that's
positive and avoids that is negative. That said, there's stuff
that it leans into that is negative. Yeah, but I
guess my point is like, oh, there's really cool stuff
that happens in this movie that I think make it

(01:07:24):
watchable even to this day. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah,
this feels this feels like it just it's a bit
diff a weird one because it's like, there's certainly, like
way better movies about women in love than this one.
A lot of the ones that are much better are
made by queer women. We've covered some of them on

(01:07:47):
this show. I feel like Papa Pia is kind of
showing the Papa Pianist of it all in certain scenes
and exchanges. Um, and then it also kind of feels
like we've talked about this kind of thing that tends
to happen on the show all the time of just
sort of like this weird half step of progress where

(01:08:08):
it's like this was a like wide international release with
big movie stars, but it was like written and directed
by a straight guy. But it almost felt like this
movie like deviates so little from the romcom formula that
it feels like, I don't know, I would be curious of,

(01:08:28):
like how if if it's already considered at this time
so unusual to have a queer relationship at the center
of a like widely released movie, Like how far are
you going to deviate from the formula if that movie
is even going to get made, you know, which I
have kind of conflicting thoughts about, because on one hand,

(01:08:50):
this movie was not reviewed favorably. I think it has
like a thirty five percent on Rotten Tomatoes, and the
consensus seems to be that, Yeah, despite it subverting the
kind of expected narrative of this being a queer story

(01:09:10):
rather than a hetero story, which is what most mainstream
rom coms feature, this is still an extremely predictable trophy
corny rom com. And while that is true, part of
me is like, well, queer people deserve corny rom coms
to yeah. But on the other hand, it felt to

(01:09:34):
me partially and I'm interested to hear everyone's thoughts on this,
but there's still so much heterosexuality in this movie, and
it felt to me as though this is a movie
that's like written by a straight guy mostly for straight people,

(01:09:58):
because of different story choices that were made and what
the movie focuses on a lot, which is like way
too much of because like there's all these subplots or
like narrative through lines where we get focused on Rachel's
mom and dad and they're failing and then reblossoming relationship,

(01:10:20):
we get Rachel's little sister and her little boyfriend. Oh
my god, I mean that's like a whole separate issue.
Why are we having the music swell growth? I have
that in my notes my sentences. Music's music swell for children?
Question mark Why it seemed to seemed to swell absurdly
loudly too? I was like, I was like, oh my god, sorry, sorry,

(01:10:42):
And weird grooming, Yeah, it's weird. Good job, Papa Papa Boom.
We see Coop trying to fuck a bunch of women.
We see Beth Rachel's friend trying to find a boyfriend. Basically,
I just wish that there were more queer movies where
more of the characters are queer and it's not just

(01:11:06):
like two queer women hanging out with thousands of straight people.
That is an ask that would have over extended old
Papa Pia, and I feel like he would have mishandled
any more queer characters. Certainly, Papapia is like, I can
truly just handle to one legend a half if you
consider loses friend Dye, a character which he seems to

(01:11:30):
about halfway right, yes, one point three one point four two.
Meanwhile you get a whole scene of whatever the funk
that is uh boring a piece I android on. This
was written by friend of the show, Princess Weeks. Princess
wrote about this movie for The Mary Suit earlier this
or last year, so I wanted to share what her

(01:11:55):
thoughts were a little bit. She's saying stuff like this quote.
Neither Rachel nor lewis pursued the other. They just keep
getting pulled in each other's way. And while loose being
gay is addressed early on, it's not seen as an issue,
which is great. I felt a lot more joy in
watching this film because while the cheating element isn't great,
it was nice seeing it not be either a traditional

(01:12:15):
coming out story or inherently a gay angst story. Just
a love connection with bad timing that ends up working
out without turning anyone into a bad person unquote, which
I do think is like a strength of this movie,
because it's like, Heck, I think a lot of Heck
behavior is unacceptable. The fact that he compulsively outs loose

(01:12:36):
at every opportunity is pretty egregious, but in the general
sense I did because I feel like it's such a
rom com. One of the tropes that's avoided in this
movie is like there's always like the third party is
made out to be like horrible, evil, irredeemable cal Hockley,

(01:12:57):
if you will, the cal Hockley of the situation, and Heck,
while he certainly has issues and like has behavior that
is not acceptable, is not like a bad person and
is also I thought like it was cool that they
didn't make him out to be a villain because then
you get to see him like realize that his wife

(01:13:20):
is in love with luc and except that his wife
um but I thought it was nice that he like,
obviously it's very painful for your wife to leave you
for anybody. But but he's just like, you know, he
accepts it. He doesn't lash out in a villainous fashion.
And uh, that's I like, even for any rom com,

(01:13:42):
that's unusual. But I thought it worked really well here.
Instead we have Coop lashing out and being like you
filthy slut. Something is wrong with Coop and we're like, Coop,
why are you even in this movie? Get out of here?
No one likes you. He doesn't do anything. The boy
ain't right. Yeah, Luce could have had those conversations that
she had with Cooper with h if they really wanted

(01:14:04):
them to be friends. Are they eat like right? What
would have worked better for me is if so when
Cooper meets Loose at the wedding and he he fancies her,
if he goes to Rachel then and it's like, hey,
can you try to set me up with the flower lady?
Can you like get us all together for dinner and

(01:14:26):
try to set this up? And then Rachel's more than
happy to extend this invitation because she either consciously or
subconsciously wants to spend more time with Loose and then
that's why they have that dinner scene with the match
making attempt. That's not even necessarily like a a Bectel

(01:14:48):
cast thing that just like would make more narrative sense
to me. But anyway, I think we need to spend
any more time trying to make Cooper makes sense, right, No,
we just have to accept the fact that that the
trash character Papa Pia, you know, examine yourself. It's but
it's also like to me, Rachel's character not making sense

(01:15:10):
unless I guess you could read it that like she
extends this invitation and is trying to do this matchmaking
because she's also just subconsciously trying to spend more time
with Luce and it could just be under the guise
of trying to match make, but really she's just like
I want to be near her, so I think that's
entirely possible. Anyway. Moving on, Like most rom coms, even

(01:15:33):
once set in large cities with diverse populations, uh, this
is very white movie, Rachel has what feels like a
token black friend, Zena played by Vanette Robinson. Of Rachel's
two friends her and Beth, Zena is the one without

(01:15:54):
a little subplot because the other friend, the white woman,
gets more screen time. She gets a little subplot where
she's trying to find a boyfriend. We just get to
know that character better. The one black character in the
movie is like sidelined to the extreme, and I hated it. Yeah,

(01:16:15):
I think her most notable moment was the scene in
the bathroom where they were talking about, um, if they
had ever considered dating women before, and that is like
that was her little showcase moment. I thought it was
like a fun moment for the five. But yeah, we don't.
We don't know anything about her and this movie. I mean,

(01:16:36):
as with most round comps, it's very white, and it
also takes place in just like generally the upper classes
upper you know, you saw their flat. They have a
spiral staircase in their flat, which is with like roof
access simply impractical. Okay, not practical. Heck can afford it
because he day trades crypto or whatever. The fun. Oh

(01:17:00):
he's got forty one point six, He's he's set for life. Yeah,
he's fine. He's going to get a bonus the size
of his boss's naus. It's implies. I was like, I
really hate business dialogue in movies. It's so gross. Um,
you see a David ma'am at play one time and

(01:17:20):
then you just write ship like that down. It's disgusting,
glaze over. Is there any other stuff? Yeah? Other thoughts, Caitlin,
Do you have more things or can I get at
it please? Okay, great, here's some things in my notes
that we didn't touch on. Going back to the bathroom scene.
I don't think I've ever heard crossed the street as

(01:17:41):
a euphemism for being gay, which is fun British. When
Rachel goes, have you ever crossed the street, which is like, oh,
that's nice, I'll use that. Um. And then when Rachel
was talking to Heck after exposing her gayness to him,
her line of you're my best friend. That was enough

(01:18:02):
before and we'll be enough again that that is a terrible,
non comforting thing to hear from your new wife. And
if that is how you felt in the relationship before,
you probably shouldn't have been married anyway. Precisely, we already
talked about I should have married you, which is what
Hex said to a nine year old child. That is

(01:18:26):
so so bad, believably weird. It was giving a little
women Amien Lorie energy except that actually happens in Little Away.
Um okay, and then some horny, some horny moments between
Rachel and Loose after the Arcade dates when they're talking
about flowers and Loose is like, you don't want to

(01:18:49):
hear about lilies, and Rachel's like, no, tell me about lilies,
and this is like okay, they mean, I dare you
to love me. And then Loose makes eye contact and
then steps away of that is that is so horny?
What a horny move. I loved it so much, very good,
very gay, quite horny about it. And then um, when
they're when they're breaking up in the park and Lucy's like,

(01:19:11):
don't forget me, and Rachel says, I won't remember anything
else also just fucked me right up again. Those scenes,
the scenes between the two of them gorgeous, even though
I think that Rachel's character is like kind of blah
and like a little under characterized. I mean, she's a

(01:19:31):
straight woman, true, Sorry but sorry. Why are they drawn
to each other besides the fact that they are both
attractive and near each other? This is a thing that
I take issue with. Baby Can and Baby You're sexy
and life Cannon to build a life together, bros. That's true.

(01:19:57):
There are just a lot of sexy people that you're
just like, I'm this isn't a conversation kind of relationship,
and well that's good for them, trust me with my
horny time. I know. But when i'm if, I'm trying
to get into a relation, like a long term, meaningful
companionship with someone so hot you wouldn't even need to
talk to anybody of I don't have to imagine. Unbelievable.

(01:20:21):
We make our living talking without being seen. We have
the opposite problem. Despite all that, though, I did really
enjoy their scenes together and honestly wish there were more
of them, but instead, too much real estate in the
movie is dedicated to watching Heck at his job, scenes

(01:20:41):
between Coope and Loose, in which he is being a
disgusting creep, scenes where Henrietta is best friends with a
hundred different adults like I just wish there had been
a little bit more emphasis on the queer relationship and
seeing that heighten and develop again to watch Imagine Me

(01:21:05):
and two the Rise of grou Oh. Heck, if this
movie was like really really bad, like you call it,
imagine pee and pooh, we're really doing this yeah, Sammy,
do you have more things? Did you read the Roger
Ebert I'm I'm I'm teeing it up right now. So

(01:21:30):
once we decided that Imagine Me and You was going
to be the movie we covered, I googled it, as
one does, and I saw that there was a review
from www dot Roger Ebert dot com from two thousand
and six, And in the Google search you see a
little bit of a sentence. So the sentence is this,

(01:21:53):
this movie is basically gay propaganda. The basis is that
she is leaving a happy relationship with a man she
has known for ages and is a good dot dot dot,
which is a pretty strong accusation. Strong accusation. Look, yeah,
I clicked. I was like, I have to make sure

(01:22:13):
I'm assuming that he's saying all this is a pejorative,
But what if he wasn't right? But he was. He
did not like the movie. He didn't like the movie,
but then at the end he was like at the end,
he kind of implies that it's because it's his second
like he liked a movie where hyper parable plays a
gay character better. Like he's like, I like the other

(01:22:36):
parable lesbian movie better. And then you're like jeez. Okay,
Oh no, he was talking about another Oh yeah, was
he Yeah, that's what he Yes, he was like she
was probably thinking about how much better that movie was
the whole time she was shooting this movie. But he's
just a mess. Right. Here's what made me me eyebrows

(01:22:57):
raise is that that's specific sentence in the snapshot of
the article or review, not in the not in the
review once you click on it. So was it? So
where does it come from? It was scrubbed? Oh so
we'll never know the rest of that sentence. Wait, so
it was it originally published with that sentence in it,

(01:23:18):
but then they like edited it out later on. I'm
pretty sure because I couldn't find it anywhere else, right,
because I started. I tried to search for it too
once you had mentioned that, and then I couldn't find
it anywhere. So yeah, naughty boy Roger, naughty boy Roger.

(01:23:39):
We'll have to call him in hell where he lives
now there. Sorry, I just like to mention that Roger
Effort could be in hell if you believe in that
sort of thing. Sure, sure, yeah, I mean he maybe
he's in heck. It like the character's na um. Here's

(01:24:01):
a few things um Loose fat shames one of her customers.
Loose calls her love interest shrill Heck keeps talking about
how he could make jam and I'm like, excuse me,
don't you mean marmalade. We're in Paddington Territory here? Okay,
this is England, this is London. You mean marmalade? Have

(01:24:23):
I heard of it? Um? I felt as though there
was like we talked a little bit about Rachel's parents
and that relationship, how they hate each other, but then
at the very end they decided to rekindle. In the case,
it felt to me as though we had like a
shrewish mom trope happening with Rachel's mom. But then that

(01:24:43):
was also kind of like offset by Loose having a
cool mom so so much she fucks What else? I
feel like the part where Rachel almost kisses Loose after
they play DDR was a surprise kiss, but then it

(01:25:04):
didn't get followed through on, which I feel like we
haven't seen where like a surprise kiss doesn't happen all
the way. Surprise kisses just mean like nobody's asking can
I kiss you? Right, It's just like you know, you
kind of lunge at someone and kiss them without checking
in to see if they want to be kiss I'm sorry,
was there a lunge in that one? I feel like
that was a vibe, that was a vibe it could yeah,

(01:25:26):
I don't know. I feel like that that that one
passed the vibe check for me. I think I feel
like they were tiptoeing towards each other. Maybe I maybe
I'm just obsessed with people. No one, No one does
my line, my horny pickup line, which is should we kiss?
And that way it's very explicitly put out there. Thank you.

(01:25:48):
So whenever people don't say that and don't get all
of that verbal confirmation, see, I do something that's not sexy.
I say what the kids saying, oh cool? Oh yeah,
I asked if do you want to kiss? And then
after minutes of me being very very nervous, I'll say, okay,

(01:26:11):
here I come, so we're all doing great. I also
do like you know, when like a parent is like
feeding their kid a spoonful of thing and it's like
an airplane. I sort of do that too. I'm mike, here,
I come, is it with your head? Yeah? I'm like swiveling. Uh.
Sammy wins that that's pretty good. Um, I think that's

(01:26:36):
really all I had. Yeah, I had Coyote, I said,
I said, more like Coyote British. More like Rachel getting
unmarried and the night that's that's actually a really good joke, Jamie,
thank you. Wow, don't sound so surprised. Well, I mean
comparing to Coyote Britain from the from the joke, writer

(01:26:58):
who wrote Coyote Britain calls this a joke that makes sense.
Oh good, that's all I have. That's all I have, Yes, Sammy,
do anything else you'd like to share? Yeah? I really
don't like that. D d R is again misrepresented in
the movie. They're not playing, they're not actively playing the game.

(01:27:18):
Can touch happens a lot, and it's very frustrating as
a a DDR self DDR champion champion does me. It's
also funny when people in movies managed to make DDR
look sexy, because it's like, it's not to say it's
not sexy, but it's not like backup dancers sexy. It's

(01:27:38):
like DDR is really sexy if you wanted to see
someone move their feet really quickly and while their upper
half is essentially not moving at all, it's not pie
prepara book gets an ash shake in there. I'm like,
that's not that's not how the game is played. That's
not how ap plays. Also, I'll go ahead and say
that d d R is not really that sexy. It

(01:27:59):
is not, but it's the just the atmosphere of being
in an arcade and competing with someone exactly horny d
had even them ending up on a DDR machine after
Louis was like, I want to go dancing. That is ridiculous.
That is a ridiculous solution to that. Yes, I would

(01:28:21):
be so disappointed because d d R should not be
called Dance Dance Revolution. It's like Jump Jump Revolution. You're
not really dancing when you play DDR. You're just sort
of like stepping and hopping, like tap tap Now I'm sweating,
that's the game. That's the game. But I did enjoy

(01:28:42):
their connection and it felt to me as though they
had pretty palpable on screen chemistry. We've we've talked about
this where like developed on the side of the cave. True,
but we've talked about how like sometimes in queer movies
where straight actors are cast, the characters don't of any
chemistry and this isn't necessarily happiest season, I feel I

(01:29:04):
feel like we talked about this on the Carol episode
as well, And this is not necessarily this is not
specifically a heat for that one. That's true. No one
can claim that there was chemistry and happiest season just
canonically palpably untrue, Like did these women know each other?
I mean there was, but it was between Aubrey Plaza

(01:29:25):
and Christen Stewart right right. And this isn't like necessarily
an issue specific to queer movies because look at Matthew
McConaughey and every rom com he's in, and how little
chemistry he has with any of the women. Okay, Wedding Planner,
they were in love. That is so far and I
refused to check my work, But this is something that

(01:29:47):
we have come up upon where straight actors are cast
in queer roles and they often won't have chemistry with
each other. But I felt chemistry between Piper Parabow and
Lena Hetty. Yeah, tell that to my pair of boner

(01:30:09):
who piper pipe. There's a there's a pipe, there's a
penis joke in there. Maybe just spitballing anyone. Yeah, I was.
I was following it. No, I was following it. But
then I was like, that would sounds so gross to
say out loud. So well, happiest season more like horny

(01:30:29):
is season for Caitlin And I'm gonna make a piper
joke anyway, Right, it passes the Bichtel test. Big surprise,
the movie passes the Backtel test five hundred thousand times. Yes, man,
it's a lot between a lot of different combinations of

(01:30:50):
characters as well, moms and daughters, lovers, childs and children
and adults that our best friends we don't know. Yeah. Yeah,
as far as our nipple scales zero to five nipples.
Based on how the movie fares when looking at it
through an intersectional feminist lens, ah, I guess I would

(01:31:13):
give this. This is one of those sort of like
split down the middle movies For me. I do think
it was ahead of its time in a number of ways.
I think that it holds up better than you'd expect
of a two thousand five rom com about a queer

(01:31:33):
relationship written and directed by a straight white guy as
far as we know, but a lot of harmful tropes
were avoided. Not all of them were avoided, but enough
were that I feel like, you know, this is a
movie to to still watch and enjoy and appreciate the

(01:31:56):
relationship and appreciate that it's a queer rom calm that
has a happy ending and that has a nice relationship
that you can get behind. Because also, like just a
convention of the romcom genre is like it's a toxic
relationship where characters are lying to each other and being

(01:32:16):
manipulative and being gross and creepy a lot of the time,
and that doesn't happen in this movie. We just have
a pretty sweet connection between two people and they make
it work. So I think I'll give this three because
of that. It obviously gets points off for some of

(01:32:39):
the behavior of other characters that doesn't really go challenged
or commented on by the movie cooop and heck outing
loose all the time, That the extreme whiteness of the movie,
the sidelining of the one black character. Everyone else you
see on screen who as a speaking role is white.

(01:33:02):
Um yeah, three nipples, and I'll give one to Rachel,
I'll give one to Loose, and I'll give one to
Eat because I wanted more for her character. I'll meet
you three. Uh yeah, there's uh four. Its time considered,

(01:33:25):
like I had to keep putting my like. It's frustrating
because there are so many like better queer movies, many
of them made by queer people made well before this movie.
But a lot of the popular, you know, mainstream cinema,
that cinema, Oh my god. Okay, okay, I have to
go walk into the ocean, loser alert movies. It's called movies, okay,

(01:33:51):
but yeah, a lot of movies that featured queer relationships
in like mainstream releases. Literally, Geelie came out two years
before that, so I think, given the era it came
out in, I was pleasantly surprised that it did as
many just like lovely sweet rom com things as it did.

(01:34:11):
I like the relationship, I like the characters. Generally, I'm
mainly docking it for extreme whiteness, Papa Pilla's choices surrounding
when music should swell around children and uh and literally
and literally the character coop um, So I will I'll

(01:34:33):
go with three. I'll give when to loose window loses,
horny horny mom, and one to the hot dog. Oh yeah,
I wanted to give a nipple to the scarves. Oh yeah,
I ran out honorary mentioned to the scarfs scarves, scarves,
scarves and scarves, scarves, scarfs, Sammy, what about you? Um,

(01:34:58):
I don't have anything to add to y'all's reasoning, but
I think the child stuff makes me incredibly uncomfortable. So
it's a two and a half for me. Dog. Hell yeah,
do you want to go up to a two point six?
Two point seven? Two point four two point three? Are
you lying to me? We're just lying? And then you

(01:35:20):
hang up the phone and say I quit. I um
my nipples go to loose, go to Loose's mom, and
then the point five nip goes to don't forget me.
I won't remember anything else. It's nice, that's happing. Good.

(01:35:43):
Well give Papa Pia that m thank you so much
for joining us once again. You are now in the
three time appearance club. And for that again, the reward
is a nice little hug. I can't wait to hug
you both for longer than five minutes for eight dollars
a piece. I was like, and you don't even need

(01:36:06):
to pay me the five minutes. Divide that by it.
You just give me thirty five cents, give me no money.
I'm good to go. You got it. I want the
full eight dollars please, you got it? Thank you so
much for coming back. Where can people you know, check
out your stuff and follow you on social media and

(01:36:27):
all of that. I'm on Twitter at it underscore your
why oh you are underscore? Sam, don't follow me in
Instagram or what. I'm just I'm taking a break from it,
and I just it feels weird when people start following
me from podcasts, stuff or just like anything, and then
I feel like I'm overexposed. Yeah, that's part of why

(01:36:49):
I'm taking myself off. Now that's healthy. I have the
exact opposite and unhealthy relationship with social media and that
I need more people to follow me so that I
feel more valid as a human. So I'll just throw
out follow me at Caitlin Toronte on Twitter and Instagram.

(01:37:10):
I'm ambivalent on the issue at this time, smart and
so I won't be commenting further. However, you know you can't.
You can sign up for our Patreona game Matreon at
Patreona complaxback dol Cast, where we're covering all manner of
cinema this month, recovering two great pieces of cinema on

(01:37:33):
the Matreon we're covering I know what you did last
summer and Midsomar, So how do you like that? How
do you like that? The theme of course being I
know what you did last midsmar Um. It's not it's
it's no Coyote British, but I think that we were
onto something. But we did cover Coyote Ugly on the Matreon,

(01:37:55):
so that's just another reason to head over there and
subscribe and get access to that. Para boner Okay, we
got d the episode. We gotta end the episode. You
can get our merch at t public dot com slash
the Beachdel Cast. Follow us is also horny. Please like,
does someone say para boner um. Yeah, check out our

(01:38:20):
merch it's beyond the lookout for the forthcoming character short.
Just kidding. We will probably never make new merchants um anyway,
that's at public dot com slash the Bechdel Cast, and
thanks for listening. Thanks for coming back, Sammy, thanks for

(01:38:43):
coming back. Hey, thanks for having me. Happy Pride, Bye
bye

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

The Bechdel Cast News

Follow Us On

Hosts And Creators

Caitlin Durante

Jamie Loftus

Show Links

Popular Podcasts

40s and Free Agents: NFL Draft Season

Dateline NBC

Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Imagine Me & You with Samee Junio