My Big Fat Greek Wedding with George Civeris

Caitlin and Jamie invite special guest George Civeris to officiate their (My Big Fat Greek) Wedding (episode).

(This episode contains spoilers)

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the beck dol Cast. The questions asked if movies
have women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends
and husbands, or do they have individualism the patriarchy? Zef
in best start changing it with the Beckdel Cast. Hello,
Welcome to the Bechdel Cast. My name is Jamie and
my name is Caitlin Darante. Sorry I just throwing my

(00:21):
last name. Oh should we start over. I don't appreciate
a power move at you. I've had a long day.
I realized today that I I cugged myself real bad today.
I like fully admit I look like shit. I've been
sitting in a room that listen. I know, I know.

(00:41):
I was sitting in a room full of old men.
It smelled like Panera bread all day. And I realized
I was wearing my own merch out in the world again,
which is truly sinful and and tacky and gross. And
I don't I don't care who says it's not it is. Well,
I think you're brave for doing it. What I meant

(01:02):
to say was loftest is my last name. This is
our podcast. This is our podcast. We use the Bechtel test,
which is a test that was created by cartoonist Alison
Bechtel in the comic Dikes to Watch Out For And
it's getting into the history right now. I just had

(01:24):
to really give a history lesson Um. It's a media test.
It's a media test that requires that a movie, usually
is what it's applied to, has too female identifying characters
with names who speak to each other about something other
than a man. And our version, our bar is only
that it is at least a two line exchange. Yes,

(01:46):
did you see that? This is not an example of
something that would pass the Bechtel test? But I just
had a quick question, Oh please, do you see the
m R A who was tweeting at us today? But
he was like it was I thought he was actually
kind of funny because it was incoherent. Did you see
he was like, I couldn't understand a word that happened
in this audio file. More male voices are needed. And

(02:10):
then he sent us a link to like women of
America demand larger mirrors, Like, I don't know what that
link he sent one don't know. He also made fun
of us for saying like too much yeah, which is
a fun criticis of that? I adore? Right? I love it.
It's I don't know what, What the funk do you

(02:30):
want for me? I don't I almost I want a
larger mirror. That's what all women went. Um you know
that movie. What women want, it's just about larger mirrors,
gives them large to second theories of large mirrors. Oh god, alright,
so we talked about the portrayal and representation of women
in cinema. Yeah, we use the Betel test to initiate

(02:54):
a larger conversation about that. Today we have. This is
a special time in Bactel caast history because if you
perhaps were aware or may have noticed, we have an
embargo on mail guests until until we lifted it just
for this very special much consideration. There were meetings, there

(03:17):
were outrage. Was I was going to say, this is
our Brexit. I don't know why it's not good but anyways,
but rest a, we've lifted it today, back down, putting
back down. But we are very excited for today's guest
and for today's movie. So help us in welcoming. He's

(03:39):
straightened up. He's a comedian. He's been featured in the
Just for Last Festival. He's visiting from New York City.
Ever heard of it. It's George Sabars Sabas the only
good man. Welcome After you repeated them, Well, I repeat,

(04:02):
women say to me, and that's how I learned. How
else would I know anything? Yeah, as we learned from
the movie. Um, there was one line where he's like,
this is why women shouldn't learn. It was literally, this
is why women shouldn't get an education. After thirty years,
he let her take one computer class, which I whatever

(04:25):
we can get, we'll get into it. We'll get into it.
It's like, what did she learn at that computer class?
Do you mean the computers and tourism seminar? She's a hacker.
If she needs computers, it's pretty sure you're just calling
American airlines. It's actually a prequel to Hackers, a favorite. Yeah, God,

(04:45):
let's check out our Bonus Matron episode on Hacker. This movie, well,
it does have Joey Fatone, which I forgot and I
squee I was watching it at work. So we're talking
about my big fat Greek wedding. Yes, so George tell
us your history your relationship with this movie. Okay, Well,
just like very quick background on my ethnic identity. Um,

(05:11):
my parents are fully Greek and they grew up in
Greece and then they moved here for grad school. Then
I was born specifically to get American citizenship, and then
I was like shipped back to Greece. Um. And then
throughout my life, I moved back and forth between Greece
in America. So I was in Greece in my early childhood.
Then I lived in New Jersey from like second grade

(05:33):
to eighth grade, and then I moved back to Greece
for high school. So and this movie came out when
I was living in New Jersey. So it was like
at the point where I was very much like a
Greek American and like had not gotten back in touch
with my Greek character after moving back for high school,
so it was very like relatable to me. Um. So
I guess it came out when I was in I
was like twelve, and then I watched it enough times

(05:57):
where I'm not exaggerating, I could recite the movie every
single word of it from beginning to end with my
best friend at the time in middle school, who then
turned out what happened and then turned out to also
be getting No. No No, we're still friends, but it's just
it was are the two things we really liked were
my big Factorek wedding and making the band too um.

(06:21):
And then the other thing was that at the time
a lot of our family friends were Indian and that
was the year that Bennett like Beckham came out. So
I remember distinctly like having a double feature that was
like big Factreek wedding and Bendett like Beckham, and then
our parents just being like, you know, at the end
of the day, the immigrant experience is like so universal,
and I was like, we agree, that's beautiful. It was

(06:44):
very beautiful. I was thinking about Bennett like Beckham at
a few different points, and I mean it just because
of it revolves around a wedding, like it's a good
double feature. Yeah, solid double feature. Indeed, Jamie, what's your
history with my big fat Greek wedding? Love It Love
The first grown up movie I was allowed to see
in theaters. I remember, I don't remember. I don't remember

(07:06):
what my mom said that we were going to see,
but it was I was like whatever, I'm you know,
I'm nine, I'm grown up and this is stupid. And
then we got to the movie theater. She was like, twist,
we're seeing a kissing movie. And she brought me to
see My Big Fat Greek Wedding, and I loved it
so much, and I used to be able to recite
it where it was like I hadn't seen this movie

(07:28):
and at least five years, but there were still like
scenes that like triggered my brain of like, oh, I
know exactly what's happening word by word, even though I
still know it as a nine or ten year old would. Yeah,
I loved it. I used to My favorite use of
this movie, like when I was like young and then
like going into early teenager, was whenever I watched a

(07:50):
scary movie, because I was really not good with them
when I was young, I would be like, well, I'll
watch a scary movie, but we have to watch My
Big Greek Wedding afterwards, because I could never be afraid.
After watching that, it got to cleanse the palette. It
makes me feel very safe. That's a beautiful story, a
lot of beautiful stories around and then comes that it's not.

(08:10):
But a sure way to get me to have no
interest in a movie is to put either wedding or
bride or princess or something along those lines in the title.
I did see this movie. I don't think I saw
in the theater, but I saw it within I think
a year of it coming out, but it was only
that one time, and I didn't rewatch it again until
like yesterday. The one thing I remembered from it was

(08:33):
the wind X because my my mom had the same thing.
She didn't like, spray your injuries with windex. But the
only cleaning product that she would use on anything ever
all the time, whether it was like a glass surface,
which is what it's supposed to be for, if it
was would if it was tile, if it was carpet,
any like brick, she wouldn't use wind X. So that

(08:57):
was my main connection to the movie. But yeah, I
remember thinking, oh, this is cool, and I remember at
the time there was all this kind of publicity and
news around it about it being this indie film that
made so much money at the box office budget five million,
box office three hundred sixty eight million. I think it's

(09:17):
the highest grossing romantic comedy of all time, or at
least it was it had been. Yeah, I don't know
if I was trying to read up about it. I'm
still not clear if anything has beat it since then,
But yeah, it was a huge box office hit and
everyone was like, hey, you can make an indie movie
and it'll be a great hit. And I was like,
I can't wait to apply this to my film career

(09:37):
in a few years. But anyway, so I didn't have
any sort of attachment to it growing up. So there's
my history I forgot. I also saw this movie the
year before I made my first friend who had Greek parents,
and she was like, she loved this movie and she
was just thrilled to have like a benchmark of like,

(09:59):
you know, lie, my big fat Greek wedding. I was like, oh,
because otherwise I wouldn't have. I just knew about Irish
people screaming at each other. Yeah, it was. There were
so many things that like then I would get asked,
like the spitting, for example, like do people really spit
on each other or like it's like it's The answer

(10:19):
is that it's not. It's like a symbolic No one
is actually spitting saliva. It's just like you make the
sound of like to like and then it's like a
symbolic thing. Wait, I want to say one more thing,
which is that the first time I saw this movie
was when we were visiting my family in Greece. For
the summer, and I saw it in an outdoor movie
theater in Greece like during the summer, so it was

(10:39):
like but what was funny about it was that because
like the audience was I mean, it's kind of like
how crazy rich Asians bombed in China. Like Greek people
don't relate to like the Greek American story, Like it's not.
So people were like very lukewarm about it around me
when I saw it in the movie theater, and then
people were also kind of like this is offensive. I

(10:59):
was like, okay, okay, it is my favorite movie. Even
did you have like relatives or people you knew that
that found it offensive towards Greek people. I mean, the
thing is like, okay, even like my family is not
really like the family that's were traded in the movie.
And it's mostly because like we had this weird childhood

(11:20):
or we kind of moved back and forth and actually
like maintained a lot of contact with Greece the country,
and we like spoke Greek at home, and I think
that also made us less prone to like kind of
bring Greece with us to America because we were like
we we have a connection to it, like we go
there like twice a year, so we were we never
had like, you know, Greek statues like in our home,

(11:41):
or like we we didn't like your garage door wasn't
the Greek right exactly, or like or like, for instance,
they go to Greek school in the movie, but like
we spoke Greek at home, and so that was never
like the thing that we did. But at the same time,
I was in spaces, like when we would go to
church and stuff where I would absolutely recognize like the
types of people that were portrayed in the movie. So
I would say related to it on a more superficial

(12:03):
level than maybe someone else who was like a second
generation Greek American that was like you know, born and
raised in Chicago or New York or something. Um, But
I still very much recognize all the characters, And I
think what Greek people maybe responded poorly to was just that,
like it was kind of exaggerating all the most funny
parts of Greek culture. And I do think that like

(12:24):
if Greek people faced more discrimination, then yes, I could
be convinced that it's like problematic, but I feel like
ultimately they don't, so like it's okay for me to
laugh at these things because it's not like they're perpetuating
some like extremely harmful stereotype. It's like affecting Greek people
in like sure right the world. That's what's tricky with
this was like I just truly I wasn't familiar with

(12:46):
any Greek stereotypes and this was my first encounter with
anything Greek. And then after this movie came out, we
went to the Greek Festival in Brockton, Massachusetts every single
year because we're like, love that movie, let's go, let's
get greatly. I don't know, like we would just do
it afterwards. But it was like, unlike a lot of

(13:07):
movies that turn up stereotypes, I wasn't even familiar with
the stereotypes. It was like tricky even watching this, I
was like, I don't I don't know. I'm assuming it's
probably a little offensive and over the top, but like,
I don't know. I feel like what is kind of
stereotypically known about Jewish families and Italian families also sort

(13:29):
of applies to Greek families, and that there's a lot
of focus on food and like family gatherings and that
stuff like that. That's yeah, I think about the sod
because so many people. Obviously that's like such a common
comparison of like Jewish families, the town family, and Greek families.
But then there's also like more broadly speaking, like immigrant families,

(13:50):
like sometimes you know whatever, and then there's like you know,
I mean I was mentioning before, like Indian families. There's
you can make comparisons there, and I feel like ultimately
what the Separation Act is between literally wasps and everyone else,
Like I actually think that there's more of a difference
between wasps and non wasps than there is between like
and I'm not saying this in terms of like systemic discrimination.

(14:11):
I'm saying this in terms of just like family culture.
I genuinely think there's more of a difference there than
between like a Greek family and an Italian family and
a Jewish family, And so right for me, and what
I mean, wasps in this movie do not come up
too well, nor should they. But it was like there
was what but that scene where Ian's mom is like

(14:33):
screaming in someone's face like it's a bunt cake. I
was like, what is wrong with you? That whole scene
to me was very weird because it's like you have
that overreaction and then you cut to the aunt and
she's like, I consumed my twin in the womb, Like
why is this coming up? I used to be my
favorite part, but I was like, this is fucking totally

(14:54):
very strange. Yeah, love this movie. Well shall I do
the recap? Okay? So we meet Tula to be in
love with a woman named Tula. My mom's name is
not Tula. So Tula played by nia is It Vardalos,

(15:14):
who also wrote the movie. We get to know her
a little bit as a young child, growing up as
like a second generation Greek woman in a suburb of Chicago,
has a huge Greek family and they put a lot
of pressure on her to get married to specifically a
Greek man as soon as possible. She works in the
family restaurant, and um, you know, she's really happy with

(15:37):
her life. She feels kind of stuck. She's and it's
like the whole thing is like she's third, she's well,
she's on her like she's way past her expiration date.
She's sweat. It's just like, oh no, yeah, she's wearing glasses,
which is code for I'm not fuck. I didn't I

(16:02):
forgot how over the top Tula one point, oh was
I was like, oh my god, she is just headed
toe neutral, she's wild. So she works at the family
restaurant and one day a relative, Joey for Tone, is
her cousin. We meet her mom and her dad, her

(16:23):
sister brother, a couple of her cousins, a couple of
her aunts and uncles. Is Joey fatone Greek. He's Italian
because he's doing an Italian accent. I mean a lot
of a lot of people in the cast are Italian.
I was just like, hold on joy for as thrilled
as I am to see him anywhere. He's doing a
pasta meat box. What is he doing anyways? Yeah, so

(16:47):
we meet different members of her family. You know, she's
just like, everyone wants me to get married. And then
this guy comes into the restaurant one day. Is he hot?
He is handsome. He's not for me. I don't know.
I mean, I'm not whatever he means exactly right. I

(17:11):
couldn't do it anyway. So he's fine. Um, but she
his hair is too long in this that's my problem. Well,
the important thing is she finds him attract she does,
so she has glasses. What's she going to do and
she sees him and she's just like smitten. She's hiding
behind stuff, crouching down, whether she's hot or not, she's

(17:37):
hiding behind the large objets. So then she starts to
get her life together and she enrolls in computer classes
at a local college because she wants to help the
restaurant run more efficiently. Um. She gives herself a little makeover,
and then she starts working at her aunt's travel agency. Yes,

(18:00):
after that scene where she advocates for herself, says, Hi,
I can turn on the computer. I would like to
work here, and her aunt says okay. And then the
aunt the mom in Tula have to all convince the
data was his idea. You have to incept him yes,
which was fun to watch, and that's how Christopher Nolan
got the idea for inception. He wants that scene yes. Um.

(18:24):
So then a short time later, she crosses paths with
this guy again who she thought was so handsome and
his name is Ian and he asks her out on
a date. Hens like it's punched by an old lady
the ship because he's goofing around. I see that scene.
I'm laughing, sorry, um. And then Tula and Ian start

(18:47):
dating and for the first time in a long time,
she's happy. But her family doesn't know about this relationship,
and he's not great because he's not Greek. And when
her mom and dad find out that she has been
dating this non Greek man, they throw of it and
they want her to stop seeing him, but they're all like, no,

(19:09):
we're in love. We're not going to stop seeing each other.
And then and then you see him at the school,
and then I was like, Okay, he is handsome for
some reason. Once I saw him teaching that maybe that's
what it was, even though we've already been told that
glasses equals not fuckable, but that role doesn't apply to

(19:31):
men forgot. Meanwhile, her family is trying to set her
up with a Greek man, and all of those candidates
are not appealing to Tula. Then she meets Ian's parents
and they are very bland and very waspy and pretty racist.
And then Ian asks her to marry him, and she's like, yes,

(19:53):
please sign me up. And Tula's dad is distraught by
this because he's like, I thought she would get married
in a Greek Orthodox church and she can't do that
if she marries an on Greek. So then he converts
bcically like it's baptized. Get him to the green and

(20:16):
it's like when his family is in the church and
like it's all Greek to me, and like, oh my god,
stop it. You're wild for this one. So he's getting
his head dunked in an inflatable Katie pool fun, very
fun seeing and m lavin and then the family starts

(20:40):
to accept Ian for who he is. They like his hair,
they like his hair, They celebrate Easter with him, they
play some language barrier goofs on him, and they start
planning the wedding. There's some scenes with some invitations and
some bridesmaids gown. The brother also starts going to night
school to he wants to be an artist. We love that, yeah,

(21:02):
because and Tula inspired him. Um. Then they invite Ian's
parents over so that the families can meet each other.
And that's the whole like buntcake scene. It Eventually it's
the day of the wedding, and it's the wedding. It
just happens. Yeah, when it happens, and which goes wrong
at the wedding? No, And I just get to watch

(21:23):
a nice wedding at the end. Yeah, and then uh,
they're at the reception and there's dancing and everyone's having
a good time, and then we flash forward. She gets
pregnant right away, right away. Well, also her parents get
her a gift by her. But the twist is it's
right next door. Also Dad accepts Ian, sure, sure, and

(21:50):
it's one big, happy family. And then she's like, hey, daughter,
who's six years old. You can marry anyone you want,
the end long as you get married. And she has
to go to Greek school, so they are keeping the
traditional Yes, indeed, so that is the movie. Let's take
a quick break and then we'll come right back. Okay,

(22:15):
and we're back. Oh what a what a time we've had.
We do. We're dunking each other, we're baptizing each other.
My big thing with this movie is that the movie
feels like it's being set up where Tula seems like

(22:36):
she's being somewhat critical of her culture, where it's like, oh,
all these expectations are being foisted upon me that are
fairly archaic and sexist, where it's like, oh, you, as
a woman, there's three things that are expected of you.
Marry a man, have babies, and then make food for

(22:57):
all of those people, and it feels like this is
gonna be because I didn't really remember what the story
was about, although wedding is entitled, so I did to
sort of remember that there was a wedding, but I
like couldn't totally remember how much she like challenged the
status quo kind of thing and it and it sets
it up in the beginning where it's she seems like
she's being critical of these standards, and you know, she

(23:21):
doesn't feel that it's fair that all these family members
are expecting her to get married and all this stuff.
But then she meets a guy, and the whole rest
of the movie is focused on her relationship to this
man and her ultimately fulfilling these expectations that were voisted
upon her, so that I feel like, so how do

(23:43):
we feel? I I don't there this movie, Okay, I
remembered lots of scenes by heart, I didn't remember the
exact arc of the movie, like as it pertains to
how we're watching it this time, I don't know. I mean,
there was a good five minutes in this movie where

(24:03):
I'm like, this is good, this is We're going in
the right direction. Where there I thought that there was
for making a horrible noise in my mouth. Just on.
I thought that the makeover scene was gonna bug me
more than it did. The reason it did not bother
me that much, even though you know it is whatever

(24:26):
we can dig into, like, oh, the more conventionally attractive
you appear, the happier you must be sure. But at
least I didn't remember that the makeover was motivated by
her and her wanting to do something for herself, which
I appreciated, and it was like a part of a
package deal of stuff. She did not to impress a guy,

(24:49):
even though we see that they met before. But from
what my understanding of it is, she does it because
she wants to. And she's like, I want to learn
how to turn on a computer, and her dad's like,
this is the women have gone too far. They're turning
on computers. My favorite line, it's downtown. And then she,

(25:13):
I mean, she does take her glasses off. We have
what I think is an egregiously long scene trying to
get a contact, like literally, how do contact? I need
to take the computers and contact seminar. We see here
at the seminar, and and so at very least it's
not a Princess Diaries thing. It's not a she's all

(25:34):
that thing, it's you know, she does Tula does glow
up that spans across all areas of her life that's
motivated for her to make her feel more comfortable at
where she's at, so that I appreciate I had the
same read on it, although part of me was like, Oh,
this all happens after she sees this guy for the

(25:57):
first time, So it made me wonder, like, was that
the cattle us that gets her to be like, I've
got to get my life together so that he might
be interested in me if I ever see him again.
But the movie doesn't necessarily do anything specific to suggest
that's what's happening. Maybe that's just that was the chronological
order of the events of the story. But I couldn't
help but think, Okay, it's not until she sees him

(26:19):
that she starts to like whip her life into shape
kind of thing. But I did agree that like the makeover,
it seems to be more that she gives herself a
makeover because she just wants to look different, or you know,
to give her look a little boost to make herself
more confident, right, because usually makeovers and movies like this,

(26:41):
like the ones you mentioned, it's something that's thrust upon
a woman by other people, and it's usually so that
she can be They're usually like you need to look better,
usually to be more attractive to men. And it's also
not so extreme of a makeover that you're like, WHOA Like,
she definitely looks different, but it's not like a Anne

(27:04):
Hathaway whipping around and it looks like a different person, right,
and she doesn't act that differently after it happens. I
don't know. This was like one of the movies that
we've talked about that there's a makeover sort of that
didn't super bother me, say, George would say, I feel
like it's it's there's almost like a narrative of like
a delayed or a prolonged adolescence kind of and like

(27:27):
her makeover is is almost like just the experience that
anyone would go through when they're like going to college
kind of like it's like she's been stuck in this
almost like prolonged I don't want to say prolonged high
school experience. It's very condescending, but but like she's been
kind of like in the orbit of her family and
no one else. She still lives, still lives at home,

(27:47):
you know, she still works with her family whatever, and
you know, she has kind of put off like trying
anything outside of comfort zone. So I think it, I mean,
the physical makeover is just kind of like the easiest
way it to denote the fact that she is like
taking risks and like putting herself out there. And I
don't know, there's kind of like a really interesting tug

(28:08):
of war in the movie where she's kind of figuring
out how much of her past and her culture she
wants to hang onto and how much of it she's
like okay, you know, straying from And I think it
towes that line pretty well. I mean there's like the scene,
for example, where she's like finally eating like a bland
sandwich with the blonde girls, but then it's so she's

(28:29):
like trying that out. But then it's like at the end,
she still decides she wants to be a part of
the you know, Greek community. So it's which I think
is like there's no correct way to portray that journey, um,
and I think she does a very good job in
my opinion, and the fact that her little like makeover
confidence boost that she's giving herself coincides with the fact

(28:51):
that she's also furthering her education and like wanting to
learn a new and still her job. And yeah, she's
like changing her life. That's why it wasn't like take
off the glasses, you're a new person. Yeah, this was like, oh,
she's like just doing some work on herself. I admire
that also just in terms of like the representation of

(29:11):
the women in the film, Like that entire part of
the movie where it's basically like the three women like her,
her mom, and her aunt kind of like devising this plan.
I thought was like, really well done. I want to
talk about that same because we mentioned this in the recap.
But the whole thing is that Tula wants to work
at her aunt's travel agency, but she knows that her dad,

(29:34):
being like the patriarch and the head of the household,
won't go for it unless he thinks he's come up
with the idea. So the three of them get together
like okay, we need to accept him. First of all.
It's really funny the way that like the aunt especially
is acting. She's like so rehearsed and like a robot.
She does not know how to improvise. She needs to
take a UCB class or something, but so that that

(29:54):
seems really funny. And then we as the audience, we're
let in on the secret it where the dad kind
of looks like an idiot because he's like, yes, it's
my idea, and you needed a man all along for
me to figure out this really smart thing that I
came up with. And then we are like, t he
he's actually an idiot because they already came up with
this idea. Um that I enjoyed that too, and that

(30:18):
came after I believe you see Tula's mom and dad
have They have several scenes together and then most of
them tol his mom ends up taking the dad down
to I don't know what what what phraseing my searching
for takes him down a notch. I'm sorry, Hi, I'm
a fucking idiot. Women shouldn't be educated. But their first

(30:43):
scene when Tula, a thirty year old woman, wants to
take a computer class and her dad's like, she'll die
if she leaves the house, and uh, you know it
makes the comment about this is why women should get
an education is out of control and the mom immediately
snaps at him and says, what you don't think that
that I'm as smart as you. I run the restaurant
for you, I raised kids for you, I ran the

(31:05):
house for you, and I teach Sunday school. I was
like the mic drop on the Sunday lucky, I have
you to tie my shoes so good and so and
and then later she and Tula have that scene where
was the lame the mom said, where she's like, oh, well,
sure the man's the head of she can turn the

(31:26):
head anyway, and we here do that a bunch of times.
You're like, which I do enjoy. But then also part
of me, especially with the scene where they're accepting the dad,
I came away from the sort of frustrated. In addition
to I don't know, I had conflicting feelings about it,
because I was like, well, he thinks he's smart, but
actually you know, they've tricked him. But I was frustrated

(31:48):
because there's sort of like encouraging and still upholding this
status quo of allowing him to think he has control
over everything. And there's a part of me that like
a scene like that to play out where Toola just
marches up to her dad and she's like, yeah, hey,
I'm gonna like work at this travel agency because that's

(32:08):
what I want to do. Because I know computers, I
can do whatever the funk I want. That's not the
dynamic of their family. But also I don't know, like
I feel like more could have been done by her
to like challenge these norms. But I feel like they
do a really good job of showing how kind of
like regressive views can coexist with people being empowered within

(32:33):
those structures kind of. And I mean, as much as
it is very much kind of like a formulaic romantic
comedy and its plot, I think they avoid a lot
of kind of like empowerment cliches while also like effectively
telling an empowering narrative. I mean, to some extent we
can discuss like what the details are. But like I

(32:54):
feel like she's like with every conflict that happened, she
slowly becomes more empowered in her own in like advocating
for herself, so that at the end, it's like when he,
for instance, asks her to marry him, she doesn't hesitate.
She's like, I will do this no matter if my
family likes it or not. Yeah, I don't know that
scene did work for me, and obviously like I would

(33:16):
have loved for Toola to to go to her dad
and say this is what I want to do. But
in terms of, you know, portraying how this specific family works,
I found that scene helpful because we had already sort
of gotten that indication about the comment about the head
and the neck from the mom, and then we got
to see it in action of like, oh, the women
are in charge, but because of how the men and

(33:39):
this family were raised and how they behave they need
to feel like they're in charge. How can you get
something done and thrive and exist within that structure. So
it's not challenging the structure, but it was helpful for
me to see how that worked. Also, the idea of
someone like making that kind of speech to their dad
and then like storming out is kind of like a

(33:59):
very American idea and it's a very like kind of Hollywood,
and I think it's actually more tricky and more interesting
to watch people like navigate those waters without you know,
like fully alienating their family, because like the structure of
the family and Greek culture is much stronger than like
individual you know will or ambition often and I mean,

(34:23):
you know, we can debate the merits of that, but
but but I think it's like it shows the specificity
of those family dynamics. Is there for a reason, and
they I'm sure that like she thought of doing a
scene like that, but like didn't specifically to show like
how the family is anyway, right, Yeah, I mean I'm
frustrated because I see a scene like that and I'm like,
just why can't you just say what you want and

(34:44):
then like tell your family to sunk off? But that's
just because I come from a family where I'm like,
if I don't like you, fuck off and see it
never again. But I understand that that doesn't work for everything.
But I will say, I mean something that I found
to be something that I had mixed feelings about was
like the families and the father specifically views on education,
because I actually think, you know, in my experience, Greek

(35:07):
people do value education, and it's a little difficult for
me to imagine, you know, a father trying to prevent
his daughter from going to college. I feel like that
was maybe exaggerated a little bit to to make the
conflict more intense. Although oh, I'm sure I can think
of counterexample. The people I know um. But that was
the only thing where I was like, of all the

(35:28):
kind of like exaggerated stereotypes, that was the one thing
that like slightly bothered me because I was like, oh,
I don't I don't want people to think Greek people
are like like don't want women to be educated. Right,
He's like and he's pretty overboard on his sexism, where
he's like, he's like, it's a mistake to educate women,
and then in a separate scene he says, Oh, she's

(35:49):
smart enough, she doesn't need to go to more school.
And it's just like I do think it's played for
humor in a way that works in the context of
the movie. And I also think that like as much
as you know you want to see like the person
who's prejudiced be like defeated, every family has people who
you know are going to say things like that, and
everyone kind of agrees that you're going to roll your
eyes and like you know, ultimately they're harmless, like and

(36:13):
you know, yes, it's not a perfect world, but like
that just is the case, and like when you're depicting
a family, there are going to be people like that.
That was the dad character threw me a few different
times where it reminded me a little bit of Royal
Tennan bomb. Ever, well, where get ready to Jamie's about

(36:34):
to draw a little parallel, but in terms of a
father figure character who says and does a lot of
things that are you know, shipped outwardly shitty to his family.
But the way he's presented, it's like, ah, but this
is just it's silly. It's it's presented like this is funny, right,

(36:56):
and and at times it's like presented to make him
look dumb because his wife can manipulate him whenever she wants,
and she's smarter than him and we know that. But
my thing was like how that arc ends for royal
time momb and for this character is like there's never
really quite a moment of reckoning for him where he

(37:16):
has to say like, oh, maybe the way I was
viewing this was incorrect, Like as far as he'll go
as to accept a man and to his family, there's
no real and and then we're sort of led to believe, well,
the conflict between him and his daughter is resolved now,
and it's like, well, he was calling her ugly and
old and like that she would should like we don't

(37:37):
really I would. I think it could have been useful
and interesting to have a scene with with them by
the end where he even if it's like, you know,
it doesn't need to be in an overwritten like you've
learned I he has queen like, it doesn't have to
be taught me so much daughter. Yeah, But I mean,
does he even like some acknowledgement of you know, how

(38:00):
over that that would be written. I was like, because
because most of the family, I feel like you do
get that journey with with the mom and the aunt
and we get to know them and we see them
kind of in action and they change. But then I
don't know that I felt like the Dead could have
that character could especially because, like I mean, the first
line that's spoken in the movie is him saying, you

(38:22):
better get married soon, you're starting to look old, and
then her voiceover comes in. He says that several times,
and then her voiceover comes in and she says, my
dad has been saying that to me since I was fifteen.
Because nice Greek girls are supposed to do three things
in life, Mary, Greek boys, make Greek babies, and feed
everyone until the day we die. So this is like

(38:42):
where I you know, I heard this, I'm like, oh,
this is gonna be a movie where she's like challenging
the status quo. And then that like doesn't happen as
much to my liking. But this is also a movie
from two thou too, so you know, you can't have
everything you want. And then there's also there's other moments
that I feel I could have been challenged more, where
like her brother, Nico is I think one year younger

(39:03):
than Tula, and Nico's all like, oh, dad, I'm going
to marry someone soon. And then the dad's like, you've
got plenty of time. And then meanwhile, Tula, who's only
a year older than her brother, They're like, you look
old as hell and you're going to die alone if
you don't get married fucking yesterday. And I mean, well,
that's that's attentional, that's right. Yeah, I'm sorry, sorry, but

(39:29):
like I just mean that like sounds like you need
to I just feel like that. I think I just
want to see things challenged more than is realistic for
me to expect of movies. But um, you know, maybe
I'm just like being overly. Um I'm giving it a
very generous reading. I do feel like in every scene
there is that tension, like there are certain things that

(39:53):
are under challenge, but they are like explored in a
way where like the audience can come to those conclusions
if that makes like without there being like confrontation after confrontation.
But then again, you know that's just like from me,
you know, being a generous viewer of the of the movie.
But I don't know, the Nico characters actually interesting to

(40:14):
me because I think you could read it as him
being coded semi queer, because there was like him wanting
to be an art like there are certain like trigger
words where I was like, obviously, this is like me
reading too much into it, but I was like, this
is like an interesting mini arc to add to this
movie from And I know that Nei ever Dallas is

(40:35):
like like a huge kind of like being a queer
ally is like a very big part of her identity
as a celebrity. And like after she made this movie,
like when she finally got a chance to make a
big budget movie, she literally made a drag queen movie
with Tony Collett, which like ended up it's not I mean,
it ended up not doing great, but but anyway, there
there were and they were like I feel like there

(40:56):
were many kind of things like that were cold in
a way that maybe I didn't stand at the TI
when I was watching the movie, But now I'm like,
just like the way the female characters are written are
very kind of like larger than life, like almost like
Diva characters. Um. And even just like the casting, it's
like they're like made to be kind of like worse.
I don't know, and Andrea Martin and Lena becausean are
just so good in it. Um, Where was I going

(41:18):
with this? Oh? Yeah, Nico, I do feel like there
are many ways to read his his arc. Sure, And
then I mean he didn't need that like tiny little
subplot like that didn't need to be in the movie,
but the fact that it was put there, I loved it. Yeah,
it was interesting, just like the going through the trouble
to really flesh out this family that as as much

(41:38):
as it seems like it's you know, like turned up
to an eleven the existing stereotypes, it's like going back
and having like, no, he's not just like a meathead,
and we plant the seed of like, look, Dad, I
drained the menu. I was like, oh, I don't care,
and he's like, get back to work. Son, and then
later he's like, I ain't going to art school, and
I was like, you know that I liked those mini drink.

(42:01):
I feel like Andrea Martin character had a bit of
a journey herself where by the end she can accept
vegetarians into her life. Maybe there's everyone had a little
I don't know. I'm I know, I'm gonna give this
movie a break in every I'm here to be the
one to be like. But I do think that the

(42:22):
central like the central problem of this movie. I've really
love of, like just the question of like how can
I live my life as I want to? How far
can I push that and still be able to have
my family in my life? That's so yeah, that's like
my culture. It's like a cultural like can it can

(42:45):
it be both ways? I think where the movie lands
on that question is kind of ambiguous and maybe not
enough of what Toula wants. But right, well, that like
it's an ambiguous thing what you were saying before, George
about there being a balance between like the movies presenting
things and it's not like slapping us in the face

(43:07):
with them, and it's kind of like letting the audience
like make our own kind of judgment calls on these things,
I feel like would have worked better if it had
ended slightly differently, because the end of the movie feels
like the thesis statement about the whole thing, which is
when she's talking to her six year old daughter and
her daughter's like, Mom, do I have to go to
Greek school? And she's like, yes, but I'll promise you this,

(43:29):
you can marry anyone you want, Like that's the thesis
statement of the movie. But I feel like because it's
so much emphasis of what she's saying right then and
throughout the whole movie being about her marrying this like
non Greek guy, I don't know, I just I guess
I just wanted to see more of like her burgeoning
career or her something. I think that, like the the

(43:51):
what it came down to at the end, I was like, WHOA,
how did that movie end that way so easily? And
I think what it is as we at the beginning besides,
like we don't really know outside of wanting a life
of her own outside of her family, we don't really
know what Tula wants out of her life, and that
is never made super clear to us before she meets

(44:14):
the guy, and so then I think from there because
we never found a like whatever ambiguous goal. We see
her do things that seems like she's taking steps towards something,
but we don't know what that is, and so once
she meets the guy, then it's like, oh, well, the
relationship is the central thing now, and we kind of
lose seeing her at the job, we sort of lose

(44:35):
like everything else sort of falls away, and then the
movie lands Unlike, but she can do exactly what her
parents wanted to, but with a wasp instead, right, so
she can marry a man and make half Greek babies
and make food for those, which is an act of
rebellion on her part, sure, But the fact that it

(44:55):
still focuses on her relationship to a man so much
is where I feel like the movie could have gone
and that and it's like if that had been one
of her many journeys where she's if she's if the
movie is about her sort of kind of reinventing herself
and figuring out who she wants to be as this
person in this family, within this culture, but also in

(45:17):
the US, and like you know, in the modern times
of two thousand two, like it could have been. Yeah,
I wanna this is my lifelong dream, because she even
says in the movie, yeah, she goes to that seminar
of tourism plus computers, but she says before that, she's like,
I'm not going to pretend like I've always wanted to
work in a travel agency, but please hire me. So like, yeah,

(45:38):
we don't know what she wants to do, and what
if we don't know, I don't know, Yeah, she says something,
She's like, I'm not going to pretend like I've always
wanted to work in tourism, but like she's trying to
get out of the restaurant, right. I don't know like
the right way to say this, but I feel like
I would push back a little bit on like kind
of like desiring a traditional self empowerment narrative, just because

(46:00):
I do feel like that's kind of a very American thing.
And the only thing I mean by that is that, like, essentially,
if you accept the fact that like when you are
living within a family that's like very tight knit and
very kind of like its own world, then in fact,
going from being a seating hostess at the restaurant to
going to being basically the manager of the travel agency

(46:21):
within the various like within this network of family businesses
that actually that is like and I don't know if
that's settling. I think it's like finding your place in
the family community and a place that works for you
rather than a place that has been determined by your parents.
And I totally get that and and that works for me.

(46:45):
My point is more like from a narrative point of view,
where like her moving over, like going to the classes
and then moving to the job at the travel agency,
that kind of tapers off story wise after a while,
and then the focus of the story is all about
the man. So yeah, I feel the same way. I
don't know. It's tricky because it's like my favorite part

(47:08):
of that character is watching her be like, no, fuck it,
I'm gonna you know, I'm going to continue to be
on good terms with my family. I'll be mostly honest
with them. But I'm doing this, this and this, and
you know, this is what I'm doing. And but kind
of narratively, that serves to get her to the relationship

(47:28):
and then it kind of goes away. Right, Um, let's
take a quick break and we'll come back to discuss
more stuff, and we're back. Hi. Hi, how's everyone feeling
always sounds so good. It's my big frit Greek. Oh
did everyone watch the TV show My Big Factor Life?

(47:50):
Not good? I like try to watch the first episode,
and I haven't watched. Like the sequel to the movie,
which came out a couple of years ago. My mom
and my sister watched it and did not enjoy it.
It was like not on my radar at all when
it came out like two years ago. My mom. I remember,
my mom made a big deal of My Big Fat
Greek Life coming out on TV and then she she

(48:12):
was so upset, she was like, decision the movie. Yeah,
And they also recast some of the main roles. I
can't remember who it was recast that. Yeah, it wasn't
John Corbett. Yeah, so so that was I actually just
think they remember watching that and being supremely disappointed. Although
I was telling Jamie that I recently watched the ever
Dallas is adaptation of Cheryl Strade's book of Deer Sugar

(48:36):
Columns at the Public in New York, which she like adapted.
And then she plays dear Sugar in the play and
it's basically like her in her living room wearing like pajamas,
and then like she'll get like an email ding and
then someone will come in and read a question and
then she will basically like act out as though she's

(48:57):
like thinking of the answer in real time, so she'd
be like dear unlucky in love. Was it good? Um?
It was no. No, it was like a critics pick
in the New York Times. Was it like did well?
And yeah it's not. It's not like I feel like
it could have been such a disaster based on my
description of it. Um, I do think that, like, of course,

(49:19):
it's gonna fall into some cliches because it's literally like
acting out an advice Callum. But she did a good
job with it, and I did cry. I'm glad he
is thriving. Yeah, it was like cool, I mean, and
it's like I feel like she had creative control over it.
It was at the public, which is really cool. It
was like I feel like it was a great thing
for him. No. No, this is like maybe like a

(49:44):
year ago. Oh no, okay, well maybe she'll tour with it. Um.
There's this scene I wanted to talk about. It's right
after Tula's family has found out about her relationship with Ian,
and Ian is at her house and talking to her
dad and saying like, you want me to ask if
I can date your daughter? She's thirty years old, And
then the dad's like yes, I'm the head of this house.

(50:07):
And he's like, okay, can I date your daughter? And
the dad's like no, and then Ian walks away says
to Tula, I'll see you tomorrow, and she's like, see
you tomorrow, and it's just like that was like a
nice act of defiance on like both of their parts,
where they're like, yeah, I'm not going to listen to
the dad and still keep sucking. I like Ian's character,

(50:35):
Whilst I would not personally fuck him, I sort of forgot.
I was like, oh, I don't you know, because with
brown coms, it's so dicey in terms of who you're
getting and how they treat you. But I thought that
Ian character does pretty spectacularly well throughout the movie, where

(50:55):
you know, it would have been so easy to to
make it be like when he finds out that she
was his waitress at the Great Restaurant from him to
be like or like that was you right? Like that
would be so trophy and silly. But but the way
that plays out is she's embarrassed of her culture in
her past at the beginning, and she calls herself like

(51:17):
from from Girl, which is like my heart, and he's like,
I don't remember from Girl, but I remember you, and
you're like he has kind of like just does the
right thing at every turn. And he also like there
isn't any scene where he's he doesn't like in any
way fetishizes the wrong world. But there's no scene where

(51:37):
he's like, your family is like spicy, Like there's nothing
like that. Like he like whatever his family does that
his parents are like. But his parents are interesting too,
because again it obviously they're such exaggerated, like well are they,
I don't know, we've all met right like that, but
I do feel like at the end of the day,

(51:57):
they are written with compassion, mean well Ian, I mean,
compare him to like Benjamin Bratt's character from Miss Congeniality.
She's just like megging Sandra Bullock the whole time, and
then like we've got this like he's an intellectual, he's
an educator, you know, he's like this just like sweet
nice guy who is maybe a little like too perfect.

(52:19):
But although I mean, but for the purposes of this
movie and fulfillment. He's great. And it's so often that
we see in movies that it's a woman having to
change everything about herself to please a man and to
be accepted by a man. But in this movie, it's
him who's making like compromise after compromise. At the point
where he's like getting baptized and like all this stuff,

(52:41):
and it's never tool that being like you have to
do this, he's like, I'm willing to do this. On
his turn, yeah, yeah, I think a line that he
says is like I'll do whatever it takes to get
your family to accept me. And then his friend played
by real life husband that was now now they're divorced,

(53:03):
but unbelievable. But his friend Mike is all like her
family has you by the short ones, which I guess
means balls, Like she's got you by the balls, and
AND's just like shrug, like I'm fine with it. So yeah,
I really like that. He's a sweetie pie. Yeah. I
like he's so sweet. He's almost boring. But I think

(53:25):
in the story like it works. He's nice. If he
was an asshole on top of it, the story would
have been way harder to accomplish it because you know,
both of them have to compromise so much, and and
and she makes him laugh. I think like one of
the reasons he likes her is that he like enjoys
her sense of humor, because in the beginning, whenever her

(53:46):
like brain stops, whenever she's like first like at their table, yeah,
she says, I'm like, oh, look at me doing here
like your own private statue. And he's like, yeah, there's
no I feel like there was a way to write
the script where like he actually ignores her when she's
like frumpy, and then is into her and then realizes like,
oh she was beautiful along, but actually he was nice

(54:10):
from the get go. Yeah, he's like, you're caught up.
This restaurant is well run, so isn't it funny? I
was just thinking about this, like, Okay, so this movie
is written by a woman. Originally they wanted to replace her,
Like I read on Wikipedia that one of the actors
they were considering was Merissa to May, who's like, you know,
let's say like whatever, like more conventional Hollywood beauty or whatever.

(54:33):
She ended up playing the role and then replacing her
husband with someone hotter, so she like like nia replaced
the male character with someone hotter in the movie that
you wrote, which I feel like is so completely the
polar opposite of what would normally happen in like any
rom com. Yeah. Absolutely, I mean the fact that she
got to star in her own script is like huge.

(54:55):
And she was also I mean this was like filmed
when she was in her late thirties and it came
that when she was forty, and like this was her
big debut, which is also like very unusual. I mean,
if you think about it, it really is kind I mean,
one of my favorite things about the movie is like
it's placed in the culture, like the fact that literally
a movie written by an unknown woman in her late

(55:17):
thirties who was like normal looking then literally became like
the highest grossing like romantic comedy of all times. Like
to have your debut be like in your late thirties. Anyway,
it was just like I remember like the year after
when she hosted US Now and I was like, wow,
this is like the biggest, Like you knows. I love it.

(55:40):
It's almost as if sometimes movies about relatable people can
relate to a large audience. Also, thank you Tom Hanks
and Rita Wilson made the movie. I forgot that they
made it happen. But kind of on that point of
you know, her not being she's beautiful, but like not
your typical hall you would, you know, like super wayfish

(56:02):
standard of beauty. Um. We see a bunch of different
body types represented in this movie, where like if you
look at the scene where all the bridesmaids are in
their gowns, you see a pretty wide spectrum of women.
A lot of the female characters are middle aged. You know,
there's better representation of women's ages and body types then

(56:24):
you're seeing in this movie. Do you never get to
see a woman need a normal sized meal? That makes
sense and that happens a lot in this movie. Always
looking for women eating food and movies. It gets me
so excited, like, oh, look at them go. One last
quick thing I wanted to say was that in this movie,
a lot of the women you do see on screen,

(56:44):
and this is commented on, but many of them are
kind of portrayed as being nagging. Um, which is a
common trophy thing that you see female characters do a
lot nagging someone they die. That is a line that
is spoken out. But then I got to thinking, well,
are women ever actually nagging or they just annoyed by

(57:06):
all the emotional labor that they have to do to
maintain a marriage and a household and like run a
business and all of that stuff. So and I also
feel like, getting back to George your point earlier, it's
made clear through the narrative that the guys who were
saying that are in the wrong, and they come off
looking silly having said it. Yeah. So yeah, I feel

(57:30):
like the thing with like a story about like a
Greek American immigrant families that I really do think it
would have been so much different if it was from
a male perspective. And I don't think I personally, like
as a preteen would have responded as well too. I like,
I don't know, I mean, what if it was like
John Stamos is the main character and then like he

(57:51):
like meets Megan Fox and like that's the like that
literally would have been the equivalent. Uh, But I feel
like it was it was a realistic portrayal of a
Greek family while providing enough commentary at any given time
to kind of like give you just enough context for
you to like understand what's happening, right, Yeah, held up

(58:15):
for me being so I'm like reacting so poorly to
like any criticism. Oh my god, no, that's why we're
doing this. I was personally really impressed and thrilled and
happy that this movie I've seen five hundred times, but
I was watching it for this reason for the first time.
I was pleasantly surprised and pleased that it holds up.

(58:39):
I feel like as well as it does. I still
don't love the ending. I'm never going to love the ending,
but having a rom com for all the reasons we
discussed that doesn't end. I mean, there's gonna be a wedding.
You show up, there's gonna be a wedding, and the
fact that she doesn't end up in a toxic relationship

(58:59):
at the end of a rom com is better than
them do uh And and so I don't know, it
held up for me. I'm going to continue to watch
it After horror movies, I recommend that Halloween you will
be unscared. Ben Um, Does anyone have any other final

(59:19):
thoughts there? Oh, there was one more scene with Mom
and Tula. I just wanted to mention they have This
movie passes back Toel test Doy, but there's a few
different scenes with Tula and Mom and there's one where
this scene. The scene starts with Tula saying, is my
marriage killing dad? And you're like, I don't love where
this is starting. But then they have this great talk

(59:42):
that I think again gives context for Greek culture that
I didn't have and is great for their relationship, where
the mom is describing how she grew up and why
she and Tula's dad immigrated to America and then comes
out with the banger of a line, I gave you
life so you could live it. And then I was crying.

(01:00:04):
I was crying and I couldn't explain why I was
at work, and then feminist icon, Yeah, yeah, comes in.
She's got a crowd of flowers. How is she not
coming up? I love her? I mean that, yeah, And
of course you could argue that, like I mean that
character is it's literally like old woman funny, like that
is like character until that point. But it's like she

(01:00:25):
seems to have dementia and like maybe you should look
after her more family, but but it is she gets
a moment. She gets a moment, And ultimately every character
is essentially like that. I mean, every character is a
cartoon until they're not, except for you know, maybe the
Mom probably is honestly the most complex character in the
whole movie. Um, but every other character is like a
cartoon until they have like a moment of being like humanized.

(01:00:47):
And I also feel like I was kind of paying
more attention to it for the first time on just
like a structural level, and I feel like it is
like all these issues aside just narratively, it like hits
the right notes and it's kind of like, if you
want to write like a conventional rom com, I feel
like it should be taught in like that class, Like
it does that make sense? Like rom com? Yeah, I think.

(01:01:14):
I mean, this is like an example of rom com
that doesn't for the most part, reinforce harmful things and
avoids a lot of the tropes of most rom coms.
But still it's like, I don't know, Calyn, it's going
to be hard to talk me out of loving this movie,

(01:01:36):
and every I just it's I love it. I think
you're you're absolutely allowed, because I don't have quite the
same attachment as the two of you have. I came
out of with this more kind of critical like, I mean,
look at the voice over at the end where she
says something like, oh, sometimes I'm afraid that it didn't happen,
it being her getting married, and she's like, I'm scared
that I'll wake up and still be buttering garlic and

(01:01:59):
waiting for my life to start. But it did happen,
and you know, I figured some stuff. So she's all like,
oh that thing that you know, it didn't seem like
she was that concerned about doing in the beginning, and
it seemed like she was annoyed that her family was
constantly pressuring her about it. That becomes the crux of
what she apparently wanted all along on her own term

(01:02:19):
short which I appreciate it, of course, but like again,
I just I was thinking it was going to go
in a different direction based on the way it was
set up, where she's like, Oh, my family won't stop
pestering me about getting married, and how dare they like
inflict all these double standards on me that they're not
putting on my brother, and like all this stuff. But
then she's like, but I got married and now my

(01:02:41):
life is awesome. Yeah. I would say the voiceover bothered
me more than like the actual ending that bothered you. Like,
I feel like the voiceover was unnecessary, But I also
think that like it's almost like paying homage to like
bad romantic comment. It's like, and we're ending with a
voiceover wres like, well, guys, now we're here and here

(01:03:03):
we are. And I feel like that. I feel like
there is an element of that. I think in like
Nia Vardalos has a writer, I mean, even the fact
that she wanted to adapt advice columns into a stage
like I think she has a little bit of that
where she kind of like likes, I feel good. She's
a little basic. There's nothing there's nothing wrong with that. Yeah,
I oh the last thing. So if And I do

(01:03:25):
think it's like interesting that this movie, for for me
as well, was paired with Bend It like Beckham. Often
I think that Bend It like Becka. I mean, it's
it's completely its own story. It's about soccer. But I
understand why they're paired together because there are some common
themes in them. I mean, I don't want to compare
them because they're different, but you know, Jesse's story and

(01:03:48):
Bend It, like Beckham, does involve more direct defiance and
a lot more direct conflict. But that's not a rom com, right,
that's uh more of a Heen movie because she's, you know,
in high school, and also the romance in that movie
is very sucked up, and she said, there's a lot
of things in that movie. Do you remember the line
where he was like, I understand where you're going through.

(01:04:10):
I'm Irish. Yes, we talked about that, but then we
got a bunch of people being like, well, at that
time in history, like Irish people in the UK were
heavily discriminated against and all this stuff. And I was like, well,
should I learn more about history? But in America it
sounded I'm surtain. So the tone of those two movies
is so different, Like Bennett, like Beckham is whatever, the

(01:04:32):
tone is different and the genre is different. Yah. I
understand why they get paired together because their stories involving, uh,
you know, first generation Americans trying to reckon with their
culture versus what they want to do with their lives similar.
I'm sorry, you're right, but you know what is first
generation Americans reckoning with their culture is the Big Sick,

(01:04:53):
which has literally identified Yes, the dinner scenes trying to
get up. Yeah, but in any case, I it's a
rom com, yes, so there's only so many places for
it to land. M Um, well as we hinted at
Slash overtly said the movie does pass the Bechtel test.

(01:05:15):
Tula talks to her mom, to her aunt Vola, to
her sister Um. A lot of the scenes where women
are interacting are about either her dat Tula's dad, or
about Ian. But there are a few, like to line
exchanges or more here and there that pass the Bechtel test. Um,
Shall we write the movie on our nipple scale? Let's

(01:05:36):
do it. I am gonna go what's probably a little
low on the spectrum of of all of us takes, takes, takes,
and I know that this is a rom com and
I know that it then it's going to be about
a romantic relationship. And because of of I'm getting there,

(01:05:58):
because of headroon hormativity, it's going to be about a
relationship with a man. And I understand all of that.
I understand that's how rom comms work in mainstream American cinema.
But because I feel like there were opportunities to do
a little bit more kind of challenging and commentary on
what is, at least by today's standards, pretty sexist double

(01:06:23):
standards and sexist takes on what a women's role is
in society and family and stuff like that, and the
movie ends with her marrying a man and doing what
her family wanted all along. I'm going to give it
two nipples. Wow, I know, I know, but you guys,
you guys can give it fives and you know, car,

(01:06:49):
but they will listen to this in the car, you
know that. Being said, I really really enjoyed toulas character.
I liked that she was defiant in many ways. I
liked her as like a lead in a romantic comedy movie.
But the fact that the whole crux of the thing
is like, yeah, my family wants me to get married,

(01:07:10):
so I will okay it Just I feel like there
could have been a little bit more, like more subplots
revolving around other endeavors of her that she could have pursued,
and a little bit more challenging of the status quo
that was her pretty patriarchal family structure. So I'm gonna
give it two nipples? Are you giving the nipple? And

(01:07:30):
I'm going to give one two? Ian Miller, after all
of that, always do see both of his nipples, and
we do a few times. He's been baptized, engaged. When
I was most attracted to him because I was not
paying attuch in his hair, right, right? And then I'm

(01:07:50):
going to give my other nipple to her brother Nico,
whose nipples we also see because he walks in with
his shirt off and at least one scene. So those
barren nipples, that's who I give them to. George. Wait,
how long have you been doing the nipples thing? Oh? Forever?
Do I just not listen to? You would alone there,

(01:08:12):
you would not be alone. Wait, so what is the
how do you decide who you give? Um? Yeah, you
can get them to anyone you want. It's just like
arbitrary whoever. And it's a based on a scale of
zero to five nipples based on its portrayal of women. Right, Okay,
I would say because of the scenes with Aunt Volah
and the mom and Tula, I can't I'm going to
give it five nipples because I can't not give it

(01:08:34):
five nipples, um, and I'm going to give to to
the mom, Maria, to to the ever Dallas, and one
to I love it. I'm gonna split the diff I'm
gonna go three and a half. For many of the

(01:08:54):
reasons stated I just the ending. I feel like even
in a mom com there's a more interesting ending to
this story, and I wanted a little more of a
resolution between Nia or not Nia between um also, isn't
in the series? Isn't her name Nia? Don't they change
her name? But you could? So The thing with the

(01:09:17):
series that I feel like you can so tell that
it like she wrote something and then they gave her
notes and the notes were all the wrong notes, and
then they just like did it, and it I'm like
regretting my five nipples because I feel like it's like
I fully understand the issues you guys are raising. We know, No,
it's fine, it's it's your your brain, your choice. So yeah,

(01:09:37):
I'll go for three and a half. I think that
it is great to see, even though I mean, I
don't know. I I liked how we understood the way
Nia Burdalas presented how women operate within this very specific
setting and also how they're able to, even if they're

(01:09:58):
not toppling the patriot our keeper se how they're able
to empower themselves and get what they need while navigating
a very patriarchal system. Yeah, I just wish that I
knew what Tula wanted to do with her life. It
was never totally clear. Um, so it very well could

(01:10:18):
be what she ended up with, but we didn't know that,
and it was kind of like you're saying, Caitlin of like, well,
she ends up with a guy doing what her parents wanted,
and maybe that is what she wanted just on her
own terms, but we just never find that out. So
that's the one place that this falls short for me.
So I'm gonna go three and a half given to
to Tula, I'm going to give one to Maria, and

(01:10:41):
then I'll give a halfe to Joey fatone. That's perfect. Actually,
he really fell out of this conversation and it wasn't
fair because he has like three lines in the entire
movies like Pasta, like this is not the movie. Joy. Well, George,
thank you so much for being here. Thank you so
much for having me. This was lovely. Where can people

(01:11:01):
find you online? What would you follow me on Twitter
at George Savaris and then go on my website and
all my shows are there in the New York area.
You gotta was incredible. And now our embargo on men
is back on. Baby, I actually can't speak anywhere. Yeah,
he just actually faded away. It was kind of beautiful.

(01:11:25):
Um so now Jamie, you and I can just shoot
shoot the ship, which includes plugging our stuff. Follow us
on social media at becktel Cast. Go to our Patreon
a matron at patreon dot com. Slash becktel Cast gets
you to extra episode Ta Public. Go to our t

(01:11:47):
Public store. If you want March you can have. You
can get it it Coross money them and otherwise. Um,
you know, I have a great day.