Romy and Michele's High School Reunion with Danielle Perez

 On the way to their high school reunion, Jamie and Caitlin have a dream where they meet up with special guest Danielle Perez and discuss Romy and Michele's High School Reunion. 

(This episode contains spoilers)

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the Bell Cast, the questions asked if movies have
women in um, are all their discussions just boyfriends and
husbands or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef in
best start changing it with the bec Del cast. Hey everyone, Hey,
it's us, It is us. You're about to hear a
live episode that we recorded in Los Angeles at the Ruby, Yeah,

(00:24):
with the fabulous Danielle Perez about the movie Romy and
Michell's High School Reunion, a movie I've never seen. Yeah,
But before we get to that, we're just going to
plug a few things at the top of the show,
if that's all right with ye. Are first and foremost
our next live show in l A. Is because we

(00:45):
are joining up with the Daily Zeitgeist. So we'll be
with Jack and Miles, and it's a themed show where
all of us will be talking about the year. There's
no shortage of garbage, lots of materials. Why two k
remember it? Yeah? Remember because twentieth century was the century

(01:09):
of women right there? Really well, that century, very good,
very good. Yeah, So check out that show. It's on
March nine, two, nineteen twenty years later, at that Dynasty Typewriter.
For tickets, go to back toecast dot com, click on
live appearances and grab those tickets. Colt anything else gonna play? Yeah,

(01:30):
I have a screenwriting class I'm teaching at the Ruby,
a normal spot. Thank you so much. I do have
a master's degree in screenwritting from Boston University, but I
don't like to mention it as you know. So that
starts on March tenth. It's Sundays for four weeks. So
if you want to learn about screenwriting, maybe you want

(01:51):
to write a movie with a strong female protagonist, you
can learn how to do that at my class. Or
maybe you don't and then Caitlyn can discmpline you at
her class. Yeah to to sign up for that, you
can go to my website Caitlin Toronto dot com, click
on shows and the registration link will be there. Let
me say, yeah, yeah, what do you want to plug? Jamie,

(02:12):
I'm gonna be doing a weekend of stand up comedy.
Ever heard of it in Indiana? I ever heard of it?
Wow in uh smack in the middle of March. If
you're in Indiana, I love to see you. Will be
in Indianapolis on the fifteen at Black Circle, Indie and
on March sixteenth, I'll be at the Tiger Room in
Fort Wayne. The way you can get tickets is google it. Okay, great, yeah, yeah,

(02:38):
but hope to see you there. I hope to see
you there. So that's all we got to plug for
right now. Enjoy the episode. Yeah, enjoy cast. Hi, what's up?
Welcome to the show. Welcome, Welcome, Welcome. This is the Bathtubcast. Yeah, well,
welcome to the back tell cast. As you know. Well,

(03:02):
I guess we'll do our our live survey, so clap
it up. If you have heard the show before the
Bechtel cast on. Alright, oh, I see some some wide eyes. Okay,
clap If you have not heard the show before, Okay,
I did see the couple all right, okay, cool, thanks

(03:23):
to humming with your friend. We're not scary, promise. Uh. Well, welcome.
If you've never heard the show before, I suppose we
should just give you a quick primer. We talk about
the portrayal of women in movies and how generally it's
very bad. UM, and we use the Bechtel test as

(03:45):
dumping off point. We use it to initiate a larger
conversation about representation and if you're not familiar, UM for
you know the people listening at home who were just
tuning into the Roman Michelle episode as their first step flips.
You have to click on it, you say, you know
what they got, and for those of you in the audience,

(04:06):
you might not know. The Bechtel test is a media
tests that you generally apply to movies, and it requires
that there are two named, female identifying characters who speak
to each other and their conversation cannot be about a man.
Sounds like an easy metric, doesn't it. Well, guess what,
most people fuck it up because men make most of

(04:27):
the movies boo and they I do think that. I
do think that, of course, the number one reason that
movies don't pass the Bactel test is good old fashioned misogyny.
But I think that there is a level below that,
just below that, where it's like men who are like
I could write a female character, but I don't know

(04:48):
how to talk to girls. How would I know how
girls talk to each other? Better make them guys? Yeah,
which is worse than misogyny. I thinkwards that there's a
branch of misogyny. Yeah. Cool, Well that's the show. Thanks
for waiting, That was worth it. I'm wearing my Crocs today.

(05:12):
You look great. Listen. I was fishing for a compliment,
but I wanted to give some quick background on my
Crocs place. Agusto. I went on a very cursed brief
vacation with my mom in Florida in our cursed time
share where my family has been paying like six dollars

(05:34):
a month for nine years on a time share that
allows us to go to Florida in the winter once
every three years for five days. And we went and
my mom and I did not do anything except go
to the Crocs outlet, and my mom made deep spiritual
bonds with each and every one of the employees. Thank you. Now,

(05:58):
this has just turned into a braw Yeah, emotionally available,
my mom is. But we both got matching crocs, and
sometimes we talk about like are you wearing the Crocs today?
And today she was wearing the Crocs, so wearing the
crocs women. Wow, I don't have any such mom story.

(06:18):
So I'll text your mom and be like, can I
mail you some Crocs to really improve your relationship. That's
already good. Yeah, shout out to our mothers, all of
our mothers or you know, all right, we're off to
a great start. The show. Everyone loves us. Um, we're

(06:42):
doing really well. We had to thaw our cold audience
the week. Yeah, shall we bring out our guests? Oh
my gosh, you remember her from our hocus Pocus episode.
I ever heard of it. She's a hilarious comedian. Please
welcome Danielle Perez. Hi, welcome back, come back. Thank you

(07:08):
for having me. Of course this is exciting. Yeah, we're
so excited for you to be here. I'm sad that
I don't have crocs there. That's when I feel like
this is such a leisurely look. It's like velvet, but
make it house with the crocs. That's honestly why I
felt they need to address it. It's like the disparity

(07:31):
between the velvet and the crocs is so vast that
the movie we're discussing today is and I keep wanting
to say, for some reason, Romeo Michelle's summer vacation. That's
not what it's called, correct, called Romeo Michelle's high school reunion,
which is the same number of syllables. Almost there should
be a summer vacation. Romeo and Michelle moved a yeah,

(07:55):
a franchise. Well, there was a sequel, but we don't
need to talk about that. See, these are a movie.
It's a movie. It was a movie. It far under
my radar. This was I mean the movie came out
in ninety seven, so I think this was like two
thousand's Katherine Higl Like, this is like before Grays. Okay,
it was like a maid for TV movie. Oh that's

(08:17):
why I don't know about it. Okay, weird. I grew
up without cable, so I've never seen a single television
show in my entire life. I am to TV, Jamie
what you are to movies. That is true. Yeah, I
know a bad television Okay. So we're talking about romy

(08:39):
and Michelle's high school reunion. Yes, clap if you heard
of it. Yeah, clap if you've never seen it. Hell yeah,
right with people who never heard the same people who
have not heard our show before also have not seen
the movies. But we're so sorry. Who turn you hostage?

(09:03):
If you're okay? There's always one stray at every live show.
I simply love it there. Yeah, Danielle, what is your
history with the movie. My history with the movie. I'm
obsessed with the movie. I love the movie. I saw
it when it first came out in seven in the
theaters with my mom and her best friend and her

(09:27):
best friend's daughter who was kind of like my du
facto best friend. H. But I was like, yeah, I
was like twelve and I saw this movie and I
was so in love with it. That's like, that sounds
like the perfect circumstances to see this movie. It was great.
That's amazing. Yeah, because like I don't, like, I never
watched Friends. I don't care about that was the one

(09:49):
show I have seen. I've seen Friends, of course, you have, Caitlin.
Caitlin would watch Friends on Netflix. Excuse me, I probably would.
I did the worst thing with Friends, which is that
I never watched it. But I was like eleven or
twelve and it ended, and I taped the last episode.
I watched it over and over as if I was

(10:11):
very attached to it because I was conditioning myself to
be an absolute fraud sure from a very young age. Beautiful, So, Daniel,
this is one of your favorite movies. It's absolutely one
of my favorite. I love it so much. Beautiful, Yeah,
what about you. I saw it a few times in
high school, I think, or maybe I was like in

(10:32):
junior high. I don't know. I saw it like shortly
after it came out, not quite right away, but somewhere
in the early two thousand's, and I remember liking it
a lot of the time, but I didn't really revisit
it after that, which was a mistake because it's a fun,
silly movie that I really enjoy. The dance scene with
Alan Cumming at the end of Oh my God, I

(10:53):
learned that dance. I mean sister and my mom's best
friend's daughter. It was like my de factor best friend.
I made her learn that it's so rude. I keep
saying that about her. It's such a thing though, because
she's not like at the time but not anymore. And
it wasn't like we're ex best friends, but it was

(11:13):
like circumstance. We were twelve. Yeah, my de facto best
friend and I ended up gaslighting ourselves into being like, no,
we're friends, and we're friends to this day. I saw
this movie this morning. Wait, you've never seen this movie.
I've never no, no, And it seems like for I
mean it on every level, seems like a movie I

(11:34):
was I would really love. And one of the few
entries in Alan Cummings, you know, like entire body of
work that I haven't seen because I am an Alan
Cummings stand girl ever seen I've never seen this, and
so this movie really delivered to me on a lot
of levels. Alan Cumming is like in this movie, he's

(11:55):
in it. It's I watched earlier today because I haven't
seen it in years. But I realized, I'm like, oh,
I feel like so much of my humor and like
my love of like weird art theater people, you know,
like Janine Gross, Like it's so nineties. But it was
like I was aware of those things. Like it made
me feel grown up, and I feel like I learned

(12:18):
a lot of stuff just like stuck in my brain
that didn't come out till later from this movie. This
is an iconic movie. I mean, it's for for all
of its faults that will spend the next rest of
the show unpacking it is. It is, like I'll say,
right at the top, relief and weirdly progressive to see

(12:41):
female protagonists in a movie who are absolutely mediocre, because
there's such a merry sue, like if a woman's in
a movie and she's the main person in the movie,
she must be perfect in every way, she must be unkillable,
she must have a specific set of skills, but not
ballyam niece and and like she has to be perfect.

(13:03):
And so to see like two female like kind of
like idiots be and I don't know. I was like,
that's cool. You don't see that. I'm firing. Yeah, we're
almost every comedy is led by a mediocre man. Like,
I just appreciate mediocre female representation. That's what equality is exactly, yeah, yeah, exactly,

(13:24):
It's what did give me a mediocre everything. It's grant
a loud. Shall they do the recap? Okay? Cat? Well,
first of all, the opening scene, We've got Romie, We've
got Michelle. They are in their beds that are side
by side. They are making fun of a movie. So
it's like they're us pretty much there Jamie and I.

(13:46):
It's pretty I said, Gil and I are usually in
the same same bed. Michelle has a cat. There's a
cat present. It is it's us. Michelle used to have
a back brace. But I know, oh my god, we'll
get to the back brace represented. I was, I really,
I didn't know she had a back brace in this movie.
And I thought that it was only Deany who had
ever had a back brace. That horrendous Judy Bloom book

(14:08):
that makes me sick to think about. Um Hi brack
bace girl back braces make you cool is the thing.
But they're basically recording a Matron episode except minus the
recording part of the Yeah, they're saying some pretty regressive

(14:29):
things about it's kind of there, but yeah, so they're
basically that's true. She gets really happy when they finally
let her shop, shows a lot of empathy, but before
that she's like, yeah, those shop girls are horrors too,
and it's like, hey, yikes, watch there's a lot of

(14:50):
stuff going on. Anyway, So they're they're best friends, romy
and Michelle um together for ten years. They Venice Speech, California.
Only one of them is part time employed, supporting both
of them very brick huge apartment. I mean, I know

(15:12):
this is the nineties of Venus Speech isn't what it
is right now, but but the finances of this movie
are baffling. Right. So one day, when Romi is at work,
she runs into Heather Mooney, that's Jennine Garffalo's character, who
is just this week softly canceled. Yeah, she was defending

(15:34):
Luisi k pretty vehemently and literally quote leave Louis k
alone unquote, which is a wild stance to take at
this point in time. But you know, maybe by the
time who knows a soft cancel. At the time this recording,
she's made some missteps, but who knows, maybe she'll redeem
herself anyway. So probably, I don't know, anything can happen,

(16:00):
all your faves wrong, Alfred Malina can be on the
podcast anything can happen? Well, the one uncancellable man, Thank god,
we will never need to call back to this clip
because he'll never do anything wrong. So she runs into
heather Mooney and they went to high school together, and
Heathery's all like, oh, you're going to the high school
reunion and she's like, what, we didn't get an invitation,

(16:23):
which does not get explored any further than that. Well,
so much of this movie would not happen if there
were any semblance of social media, So we sort of
just have to like, if there were Facebook, everyone would
know what the people are doing, and there's almost no
need to go to a high school reunion. And I
feel like that's probably why a lot of people don't,
because they're like, oh, these people are doing better than me.
Let me remove myself, right yeah, the high school reunions

(16:46):
like built up to be this really huge thing that
I don't know if it is anymore. I don't I
didn't go to I mean it was like like ROMI
having that cell phone was like such a big move
and showing up with a with a flip h Yeah.
So and then Heather wants to know if Michelle married

(17:08):
Sandy Frank that's Alan. I'm sure I could not get
through this movie without saying every lie, annoying my friends
with that very habit. Yes, I wanted to just take
a survey of the room to see do the teenage

(17:29):
age people look older in this movie or what hot
American summer? It was neck and neck for thirty five
year old people playing sixteen year olds, Alan coming being like, no,
I'm sixteen when Alan coming and he's in a terrific
actor but you can see the fear in his eyes

(17:49):
as he tries to play a teenager. He is soft forty.
But then you've got justin Throw, who I forgot was
in this movie looking sunk. Oh my god, be fair,
mostly concealed by a hat. So okay. Anyway, so Heather
is all like, oh no, did Michelle marry Sandy Frank

(18:11):
because she had a whole thing for him, and then sorry,
I was very much, very much in love. It was
not a thing. Then we cut to Romie and Michelle
going through their high school your book, which triggers this
whole like a flashback sequence when they're like, oh, which
group were we a part of? Were we a B
or C group? And then they're like, wait a minute,
we weren't part of any group. And then um, which

(18:34):
sounds kind of insult but in their cases, cool, we're owners.
Look at us alone. They're like, there's a picture of
like the group, and then they're just like in the
background the background, we see Sandy Frank being in love
with Michelle. We see is a back brace high school girl.
Important detail. We also must mention the p y per

(18:59):
the permit is is vital. It's a huge pot point.
They're like, how do we age these characters down? What
can we do? And then we see romy being in
love with this guy named Billy Christensen. He's like the
popular jock kid at school. Um, there's like these mean
popular girls and the leader of those is Christie. She's

(19:20):
putting magnets on the back braise. They have a special
bag for it, which honestly I kind of love. I
know this is a very anti bowling time right now,
but if you're gonna do it, go hard, be prepared.
I enjoy the use of props that spoke to me

(19:42):
of like maybe Christie is in fact the loser if
she's doing homework to bully someone good bullying is off
the cuff, improvised, Okay, So then they yeah, so they're
going through their yearbook. We see them at prom, Billy
and Christie play mean trick on Rummie where she's like,
dance with me and he's like okay, and then they leave,

(20:04):
they leave Rummie behind. We also have to suspend our
disbelief for the entire high school sequence that like Lisa
Kudro and MirOS Orvino are not hot. They're like Madonna twins.
It's like, yeah, wouldn't they be the dopest girls in
school in seven wearing mini dresses and like boss like,

(20:27):
and then like Christie is always dressed like it's fucking Easter,
and they're like, oh, the hottest girl in school. I
was like, this doesn't make sense to me. You know.
What I did appreciate is that her color was purple.
And not pink, and I was like, look at that,
that's really that. I feel like that was breaking some
more progress, you know, for like the head bitch, you know,

(20:49):
not to choose pink. But she's also dressed. She and
all the popular girls are still dressed like it's Easter
in true. But then but then the step mom from
the parent trap is there, Meredith Blake, yes, in a
power suit, and she's like, actually, Romy and Michelle are hot,

(21:09):
and then the easter women are like, no, it's crazy.
Precisely what happens when Meredith showed up. Can we talk
about how the last day of high school is prom
what it's like we're not going to see anyone ever again.

(21:32):
It's the last day, yeah, promise usually like two or
three weeks before the last day of school. It was
like two or three months. It's in the spring. Wasn't like,
wait when did your school end? Promise like April, April
or market? Yeah, I feel like it's promised after my graduation. No, wait,

(21:54):
maybe the week before what. I don't know. All I
remember so confused. I feel like problem was a good
two months before graduation. I don't know. But also I'm
thirty four years old. Brag. What I remember about my
problem is that I don't remember when it was exactly,

(22:15):
but I do know that someone's tampon fell out on
the dance floor. Someone get loose, and then and then
someone procured you drop it on the dance floor. Okay,
that's how you drop it. Someone was doing some serious
work in prom and misplaced their tampon on the dance floor,
and then I forget like some dork had it. He

(22:39):
said he had a DNA tester at his house, so
he didn't figure out whose tampon it was. What he
did was steel a used to he sucked that tampon.
So that's just something that haunts me. Aggressive. Okay, well
that was great. I haven't thought about that in a

(23:03):
long time. This sys the have a DNA tester at
their house. What a wide switch? Do you think? He
went to school in the eighties and like no one
would question him on that Google search DNA tester. Oh
my god. That person later invented ancestry dot com. Yeah,
he is now the CEO of three and Me And

(23:25):
when he goes to his high school reunion, he can
be like, I invented DNA testing. I'm a billionaire. Helicopter.
Probably choked to death on a tampon nine years ago.
I have no idea, no idea, death by misadventure. Alright,
so stole the damp on. Okay, he wasn't gifted it. Yeah,

(23:49):
it's a different story if it we gifted to him.
All right. So we cut back to the present and
Robby Michelle are like, yeah, we're gonna go to this reunion.
People will be so impressed with us because we leave
these like awesome lives in l A. But then they're
like filling out their forms for the reunion and they're like,
wait a minute, we are not that impressive. Let's try
to find jobs and boyfriends. And there's a one of

(24:13):
the my least favorite, like their eternal weight loss narrative.
They're like, in two weeks, we're gonna lose weight, get boyfriends,
and get sick jobs, and then we're gonna go to
our high school reunion and shake our fists or whatever.
Mind you. They are already very thin, and they're like,
we need to lose weight. Yeah, it's the it's really

(24:35):
more roamy because Michelle's eating that bag of Doritos. She's like,
I hate to say it, but you do think we
could lose a few pals, and she takes away a
gentage bag of cool ranch Dorito's sweet sponsor there, Oh,
shout out Robert Evans to the Doritos behind the Bastards. Okay.

(24:58):
So then they're like, yeah, what's the point of go
to the reunion if we can't impress everyone? So they
like try to like whip themselves into shape career wise
and like partner wise and fitness wise, but none of
it works. So many great ye Romy's treadmill out It
really spoke to me on a lot of levels. I

(25:19):
was like, where do I get it at their boutique,
which is probably on Rodeo drive. Let's go. I love
remember when everything was like a math question, Like it's
like you gotta get like x miles on a robot
to get to town, And who wants to go to

(25:41):
town with a guy who rides a robot? That was
my internal narrative any time a guy was lay in
high school, It's like he probably drives a robot. A
good burn. To this day, it still works. So then

(26:03):
Romy and Michelle are like, wait a minute, what if
we pretend to be successful and then we'll impress everyone?
So they make themselves some business suits. They borrow a
Jaguar from the dealership the Ramie works at what did
I say? The car a car, not an animal? No?
I okay, you said jaguar? Weird? Did I? Yeah? What

(26:26):
does some people say? Jaguar? Jaguar? Oh? Yeah? Some people say, like,
which thing did I say? Jaguar? Jaguar? Jaguar? What is it?
Ja ja? Okay? I just need to say I know
the difference between an animal and a car, Like, are
they on a horse that's a Mustang? Okay, so jaguar

(26:51):
is wrong, then j I don't know what's I mean.
I know jaguar is right, but that's not to say
jaguar is wrong. They get an expensive car and go
to the drive to the reunion, but on the way
they're like, oh, what wait, what are our jobs going
to be? And so they decide that they're going to
a woman asks and they're like, oh wait, we forgot

(27:13):
to be specific because they really made a big deal
about being business women. So then they decide that they're
going to say that they invented post it's. But this
leads them to fight because Romi's like, yeah, I invented
post it's but Michelle, you like design them, and Michelle's like,
wait a minute, dude, think So then they start fighting

(27:36):
about like what they think of each other, and then
they're like, you're not cute, You're not cute. And then
they decide that they're not going to be friends anymore
and that when they get to the reunion they're gonna
part ways and go off and do their own thing.
Then something wild that I had to rewind to make

(27:56):
sure actually comprise fifteen full minutes of this movie. Really
the dream sequence. It's amazing, but you didn't When did
you realize something was amiss? I hope this isn't too late.
But when Alan Cumming could fly, that's exactly because I

(28:19):
was watching it because I knew that it was a
dream sequence, and I was like, but when does it
really start to get weird? It was like and the
music starts to get kind of funky. It was like
who because someone is like over the sunroof and I'm like,
how could you be at that? An tooby? And then
Alan Cumming can fly and you're like, huh, true, so

(28:44):
far into the secret? Yeah, it's really awesome. It's so good.
But here's the thing. True Alan Cumming fans know that
he can actually fly, so that didn't register. Is weird?
For was it the Christie Ballroom with all the giant
posters of Christie. It was it that I didn't even
made to be like fruits and veged the carrots and bananas.

(29:11):
The Christie Ballroom was like, oh okay, now some now
my the cars waiting for them inside and doors. Michelle
Be voted most changed for the Batter since high school
and she hasn't stepped foot inside the reunion all night
and it's only wearing a bra. No, sir, I mean
I feel like that has changed for the better. This

(29:34):
speech where she's like I can't buy my top and
I was like, where, it's great anyway. So there is
like a fifteen minute dream sequence without the dream sence.
I don't think this movie is future length. No, they
say right there, ninety one minutes minute movie of the Scholar.

(29:58):
That's the thing with this movie, though. They loved that
about the nineties. I loved an eighties seven minute movie,
love it. Yeah. The thing about this movie though, is
that there's about ten minutes of plot and the rest
is like dance sequences that have no bearing on the story, Like,
there's almost nothing that happens in this movie, and yet
it is terrific. Um there's so much internal friendship. Sure,

(30:22):
but like plot wise, I mean, not a ton happen,
but on a bad thing. I'm just saying like, they
try and they fail, and then realized friendship is the
most important thing. And then the helicopter, Oh baby, do
you know what that's with? Heaven? It's a place on

(30:45):
the soundtrack is incredible track. Okay, so then the dream
sequence happens. Everything's weird, but they get a lot of
it right, Like they know that Sandy Frank is rich somehow.
So then for real, Michelle and romy go into the
reunion and they're like, hey, we invented post it and
everyone's like, no, you didn't. And then their secret is

(31:07):
exposed because Heather comes and it's like no, some other guy.
And then they feel dumb because everyone laughed at them.
But then they're like, wait a minute, friendship is important.
There were stupid that we're fighting. And then they put
their great outfits back. They're like, let's go out there
and be ourselves. And then Sandy Frank shows up in
his helicopter and he's like the only thing I don't

(31:28):
have in my life is you, Michelle. And then and
then the dance and we're literally just like, yeah, sure.
Very few actors could get a yeah sure from me
for that kind of bizarro scary plot twist. But'm like, well,
it is coming out of Alan Cumming's mouth, so I
guess we're rolling with it. And then we cut back

(31:50):
to them in l A. They have opened up a
fashion like a clothing boutique. Presumably do they stayed explicitly
that Sandy like venture funded there, Yeah, they're She's like,
she's like, I feel like we can pay him back
this week, and she's like I think we're like two years.
So yeah, he don't care. He's unhinged, and that is

(32:12):
the end of the movie. Maybe you forgotten. In the
dream sequence, they each win the medal for like most
change for the better, But then they each go off
with their like respective love interests, right, and then we
flash forward to seventy years later. Seventy years so they
are ninety eight years old, and then they still hate

(32:37):
each other. Michelle on her deathbed giving romy the finger
a beautiful moment in cinema. It's really like so great
because once you find out you're in a dream sequence.
They're like, Okay, now we're just gonna turn it up
to wratch it up. One of the weirder things about

(32:57):
the dream sequence is in the dream sequence Christie has
a career, but in the real world she doesn't, which
was one of the only things that I was like, Oh,
was a strange time. We're only in dreams a woman
a career, but the one who no longer hangs out
with the A group salut. She is like an associate

(33:23):
editor for Vogue, businesswoman, elegant cream suit. It's good to
see Meredith be able to play a hero. True, I know,
just for saying all in all, they're not bad. Just
a year later, she is in that scene in The
Parent Trap where they're out in the woods with Dennis

(33:46):
Quaid and a lizard crawls into her mouth. What a
wild couple of years. This is a Lindsay Lohan one. Yeah,
she plays wife. Huh, who's like? I learned what eon
was from her? So where should we jump in with

(34:10):
our discussion? Oh gosh, where to begin? What if we
were just like female friendship? Yes, queen and then left?
That's it. That's all I mean. I do love that
like female friends, Like this movie just celebrates female friendship.
Like that's it, Like you're saying, like there isn't really
a lot of plot, and you just get to see
two women who are adults like genuinely care about each other.

(34:33):
And I think that's honestly, like very refreshing, Like you
just don't really get to see that in movies or TV.
And it's like they have this atypical lifestyle where they
I mean, it's like implied like by their like Lucy
Ricky set up in their bedroom that it's like they're
like in it, like they need permission to funk from

(34:56):
the other person U and like they're I don't know,
like they're they have like their lives are built around
their friendship. And then prior to this reunion coming up,
they don't seem to be unhappy with that, Like they're
they have fun going out together. Even when they go
out to like it's like they're sort of like, we're

(35:17):
here to meet guys, but they still seem to want
to hang out with each other anyways. Yeah, like the
two cokes with extra cherries and it's like the bartender
knows that's their order. It's like okay, wait, their party girls,
but they're like not, they're sober, they're not getting wasted,
they're not doing anything. They just love hanging out. Like

(35:39):
that part of it I just thought was like awesome,
and then it's like the problem comes from there. Whatever
the world they from, isn't that wouldn't think that's a
cool way to live. And to be fair, they should
have like, like Michelle should have tried to get a
job at some point. But in this world you could

(36:01):
get a five room apartment in Venice for you know,
like a part time Jaguar cashier salary. What I don't know.
I'm like, I'm like, Michelle has rich parents we don't
know about is the only thing I can think of
playing this lifestyle. I mean, maybe Michelle was on unemployment.
Maybe maybe, but she goes out for jobs and she's

(36:25):
like very picky and and unemployable because she keeps like
messing up during this She was good versa. She was
she was like, you look like ship in that sure,
And I was lying when I said he was really
good at telling people they look good at like but

(36:48):
that is so I feel like it's just I love
watching Lisa coudro Be. Lisa Coudro likes so good and
this is like mid Friends where you can just tell
at Lisa Kudra is dying to not be on Friends
for two seconds, and she's so good. I also forgot
how much I love Mira Sorvina. She's so good in

(37:09):
this movie. I haven't seen Mirrors, so I've only seen
Mirrors Orvina in like one other movie that like, did
you guys ever see Wise Girls with Mariah Carey. No,
it's ridiculous. We'd love to do Glitter that we have
to come back when you can come back, We'll come
back for Glitter. I'm obsessed with glitter. Glitter. Mariah Carey

(37:32):
thinks none eleven is the reason Glitter did not succeed. Oh, Maria,
not eleven is personally very difficult for her. Oh my god,
what an icon escape? Good for Mariah carry So yeah,
I mean, this movie is largely about female friendship. That

(37:53):
is the crux of the movie. But then there's also
parts where it's like, okay, well, a big part of
these two many characters is that they feel their lives
are inadequate because they don't have boyfriends. And then by
the end, at least for Michelle like she she ends
up with a guy I think we can presume I
don't know, I mean he's in love with her and

(38:17):
gives them a bunch of money to open up this shop.
So either way, it's I'm kind of all for letting
someone think that you're in love with them and taking
their mind. I'm down with that. I think that's a
feminist message that it feels like reparations to some degree.
But maybe maybe, but I think the not thinking their

(38:39):
lives are good enough, Like that's for sure coming from Romi,
because Michelle seems very like, Okay, I'll go along with
like your plan, Like sure, why not? Like Michelle is
like fine either way, Like she's still like even after
like their plan to make their lives better or whatever
goes put, She's like I still really want to go Yeah. Well,
because Michelle she's the one that like kicks Romy's ask

(39:01):
kind of like, hey, our lives are great, and I
always thought they were great, Like we didn't have to
do all of this. Yes, I like Michelle is like
the loyalist, loyal friend possible, and we can get into
like the message that extends beyond that. But Michelle throughout
the whole movie whenever Romy is having an issue of

(39:24):
like feeling inadequate, like Michelle goes above and beyond to
alter her behavior to make Romy happy or be inclusive
in moments that like, I don't know, I feel like
if instead of when, when Sandy's like, oh, Michelle, I
just want to dance with you, like Michelle's like include yeah,

(39:45):
which to Sandy is a wild challenge. But he's Allen comming,
so he knows what to do. He just goes. He's like,
I have the choreography ready, thankfully, this choreography is for three.
But like Michelle often like comical ways will include Romy
to keep her friend happy and feeling secure in a

(40:07):
way that Romy like. Not that Romy loves Michelle any less,
but it seems like Michelle is the friend and the
relationship who goes above and beyond definitely, which I love
about her. And I'm also like, man, you don't have
to do it every time. You could dance with Sandy.
But I don't even know if she wants to. That's
the thing is I think she. I'm just like I

(40:28):
hope that after the helicopter took off, Alan commings like
so you're in love with me, right, she's like, no, no,
but thanks for the helicopter ride a million dollars. Do
we see them kiss? And then she's like happy that
he didn't bring as big a notebook, so they probably bang.
She feels his erection. I guess she's applying, she feels

(40:53):
Alan Cumming's big old bonar. So I don't know. For me,
it didn't seem like a sure thing that they ended
up together, because it doesn't seem that like that kind
of movie, right, because the end is he's referenced in
terms of like him investing in their business, but we
don't see him on screen again, so the emphasis is

(41:13):
still on their friendship between Roman and Michelle. Yeah, so
they're gonna be terrible business owners like that at the end. Yeah,
they're going to sink are so good it was it
almost looks like dash or something. It looks like that
sort of venture is perfect. Yeah. Um. I would say
the other kind of bigger issue that I have with

(41:37):
this otherwise perfect movie is that several of the plot
points revolve around many different pairs or groups of women
not getting along with each other. So it's yet another movie,
I would argue, at least where we see women just
in conflict for reasons that aren't clear, just because it's like, oh, well,

(41:59):
you know, they like Brady high school bullies. So I
think at the time this movie came out, if we
were to put it in context of the time it
came out, and I do agree with what you're saying,
this seems to be like the given for like, well,
in movies, this is what high schools are, Like there's
nice girls and there are mean girls, and that what
I was almost bummed out and sort of started talking

(42:22):
about it before. But like between the dream sequence and
the real sequence were in high school, Christie was this
mean girl, and like that is an exaggerated version of
dynamics that sometimes exists in real high schools, and yes,
media should be challenging those and you know, giving young
people different ideas of how high school dynamics can work.

(42:43):
But it is a reflection of something that does happen
in high schools, heightened to a major extent. But during
the dream sequence, I forget which of them goes up
to Christie, and Christie's like, oh yeah, I'm the most
successful weather girl in Tucson, which felt more like the
reality of Christie felt to me like less realistic and

(43:05):
more reductive in terms of the story than than the
dream version of Christie, because in the real version of Christie,
she is like the popular girl who was always like,
I'm going to be famous, I'm gonna do all this stuff,
and then she ends up marrying her high school swee
sweetheart and having three kids by not that there's anything
wrong with that, but the movie tells you there's something

(43:26):
wrong with The movie has a really weird view about
motherhood where it's suggested it's actually quite nasty. Yeah, it
kind of suggest sorry, at least roomy. Michelle didn't get fat,
you know, but according to the movie, uh, romy used
to be chubby. And I was like, huh, and if

(43:48):
I'll keep calling her that and it's like, what are
you talking about? The high school dynamics in this movie
are dated as fuck, really really in it, and don't
do that much to challenge those dynamics. I'd say the
most the furthest it went to challenge because in high
school everyone's focus is to like find a heterosexual partner

(44:12):
and do well, and then ten years later, everyone's goal
is to have a heterosexual partner and do well in
their career, and so like nothing is really challenged there,
except by Romy and Michelle, who are like, we're losers.
We're getting in a helicopter, and that's well, I mean
I get that. Yeah, there's like the mean girls and

(44:32):
a lot of these this kind of reductive high school tropes.
But I did appreciate they you know what happens with
um when they're like talking to like Heather Mooney about
like who they each thought they were in high school,
and it's like, oh, everyone made someone's life a living hell,
where like in hindsight you can like you experience it

(44:55):
and you feel it this way and so that's your truth.
But then in actual quality, it's like, oh no, it
seemed like you guys are having fun and you had
it made and I wish I was like as cool
as you and doing all the stuff that you guys
were doing. And I think that's like a very real
true thing. And then she's the Heather Mooney character is
very pleased when she finds out that she has made

(45:18):
the Toby Walter's character's life of living. How the Cameron
about her Time's character right, She's like, oh, hell yeah,
if I was a horrible wretch to you, and that's great.
Um just to go back to the how the movie
views like motherhood really quickly, it's this like weird idea.

(45:39):
It suggests that like women who choose to be mothers
have given up and or that they also can't have careers.
Like it's this weird. I feel like it feels like
left over from second wave feminism kind of thing where
it's like the focuses on women having careers, which is amazing,
but it's almost like women can have careers and if
you choose not to have a career, Like it's not

(46:01):
a very inclusive view. It's progressive and yet also in
his main to mothers that the world requires. Because then,
like Christine even says, the line is something like she's
saying this about the Lisa Luter character, who's like the
Vogue editor. She says something like such a great out
of it. Um. She says, like unlike a certain ball busting,

(46:23):
dried up career woman. We know we're all happily married.
And then like Lisa's like, yeah, keep to keep. So
it's right, it's like this, we yeah, that was not
handled especially well. It's very nice. Those are the only
three mothers we see like the same amount of friend
they're all the same amount of pregnant. They're all the
same amount of bitchy and rude. In me, that's it.

(46:45):
That's They're all dressed like it's a star. It's crazy. Yeah.
And then at the end, I didn't like the last
beat for the Christie character, where like her dress blows
up and you see her pregnant stomach and everyone's like
from their helicopter her, this is a bit much she
because well, where the Christie character ends, and like the

(47:06):
popular girl characters are dealt with very weird and not like,
not super thoughtfully. I feel like it's almost just like
a cookie cutter idea of who a popular girl is,
which I thought was challenged in the dream sequence, but
then they were like, no, actually we didn't want to
think about it. And at the end, in like the
last ten minutes of the movie, you get a very

(47:26):
tragic u setup for what's going on in Christie's life
in her marriage, where I'm like, I don't think she
like she put yeah, she put magnets on your back.
I wouldn't. People did that to me too, and I
wouldn't wish this on them. Like where her husband, popular
Bobby comes up and it's implied that like he's not
as like conventionally hot as he used to be. And

(47:49):
he comes up to Roman and he's like, my wife
lied about my job. He got married to Christie. He's like, no,
I don't. I don't dry wall, old man do drywall
for her. That's just like what does that mean? And
but then he's like, yeah, and I cheat on her
all the time, you know. He basically is like Christie's
life is a sham and I don't care about her

(48:12):
and I want to cheat on her now, and then
we still are supposed to laugh at her at the end.
I felt so badly for it supposed to be this
like cathartic moment for Romie where she's like, oh, I
get to do to Billy what he did to me
by like leaving to Yeah. I guess the thing is
it's like he never seen like he was never like

(48:32):
any sort of real, fleshed out character. He was supposed
to be the subjective hot guy in high school, and
I was like, he just looks whack, Like he's not
even that hot. He's not like Alan coming in high
school would bang, you know god, And he's attentive, right, yes,
Alan coming in the dream sequence where he classics. He

(48:58):
looks like Christopher wa was your presence. He looks but
like Michelle is like, oh you picked a great face.
You're so dreamy. But he is truly frightening. Okay, he
looks badly rendered. It's so wonderful, but yeah, or express character.
But like, what is the deal with Bobby being like

(49:21):
the hottest guy in school. He's not that hot, He's
super dumb. It's like, why did she even like him?
I mean, we all made horrible mistakes, but the fact
that Romy is still so hung up on him that
feels like a weird choice for that. Yeah, it just
like doesn't seem like the best. It's like they're like, well,

(49:43):
how much can we make go full circle in this movie?
You know where? I think if this movie came out now,
I think what the writers might do is instead of
them laughing and pointing at Christie at the end, Romy
would tell Christie and then and Christie would be like,
I'm going to start a new and go to night school.

(50:05):
And then she would also get on the helicopter and
then all the with the Regina Hall would be there.
It would be incredible. So you felt a little to
me like the end of Jurassic Park when they all
get on the helicopter away from the dinosaur island. Anyone else? No,
is that how that movie ends? I forget? And then

(50:29):
and then Sam Neil is like, look, pelicans, they're just
like dinosaurs, or that's what dinosaurs evolved into or I
don't know. Did you create a cinematic moment? Did you
know Sam Elliott got a star in the Walk of
Fame this week? Nope, he's in a star is born.
He's the old Yeah, his only and they gave him

(50:50):
a star anyway for him he was snubbed anyway, star star.
Another thing that I found to be not so great
about this movie is one of the things that like
temporarily breaks up their friendship is them being like, you're

(51:13):
not cute. No, you're not cute. They're like arguing over
how each other looks, how Marian who's the road up?
That's real, that's real. That's a real thing. We were
arguing today about who's the Roman, who's the Michelle. Yeah,
let's just let's just ask. I've got a crowd. Okay,

(51:33):
clap if you think that me Caitlin is romy and
that Jamie is Michelle. Clap if that's what you think. Okay,
oh this might be tight clap if you think the opposite,
that I am Michelle and that Jamie is romih it

(51:55):
have it. Well, there you go. I do identify as
a Romie, So I identified as a Michelle. I'm pleased
with pleased with our fans know us. So oh man,
I do feel a lot of relief after all, right
to the one person who was wrong. Now I'm kidding

(52:17):
I show anyway. So yeah, that's that's a weird moment
that I don't think if this movie was like came
out today, I don't think they would be like, you're ugly, No,
you're the ugly one. Like think it would be very
They don't say you're not cute, it's just who's cute? Yeah,
And I think it would be like or it would
be more thoughtfully addressed, because I mean, I think that

(52:40):
I had a note about that too. But it's like
the I don't know if we're operating on the idea
that it's like the high school reunion and the ideas
within the reunion that gets between them. That argument makes sense,
but the fact that it only goes and I think
if it was written now it would be about their looks,
their career. It would be about the three things they
were worried about, and not just like who's hot, who's

(53:03):
not like that sort of thing. Like it would probably
be a more thoughtful discussion of like I mean, they
barely they only mentioned that Lisa Kudrow has never worked
a day in her life once. Well, they do. She
used to have a job. She used to have a job.
She was a sales probably carries her, that's right, So
then that explains a lot of romy's like, Hey, like

(53:25):
I don't know, I'm the one that invented post. It's
okay because I pay the rent, which is fair. But
then Michelle is the one that always gets us to
day elce first again, very true of our relations You
pay my rent, yes, and no one asks me to day.
Thank you so much. Um. Yeah, I think that that's

(53:48):
like something that does happen can happen in like real
friendships where it's like you kind of you get into
these roles, you know what I mean, someone's always maybe
the leader more and someone goes along with the ideas,
and yeah, I feel I feel like they're the relationship
dynamic is I mean, I found it to be very relatable.

(54:08):
But the fact that, like one of the main things
that they argue about, to the extent that in their
dream sequence when they're seventy years older and still hate
each other, they're the thing that they're still beefing over
is no, I'm the Mary. So I feel like I
get it if like that is like maybe a sentiment

(54:29):
that people have in a in a friendship that they're
like maybe self conscious or you know whatever. But um, yeah,
the fact that that's, like, I would say, probably the
main thing that the argument is focused on, where they
do bring up like yeah, I carry you, like did
it da this and that, different things about their kind
of professional lives and stuff like that. But the fact
that that is the main thing, it's very and I

(54:52):
think that that is like you you can boil down
most critiques of this movie to like, yikes, thrilled it's
no longer seven, for example, but I'm not grateful it's
two thousand nineteen either, So what do we do. One
of a few of the other you know, nineties seven
based issues that this movie has, there's that there's that

(55:13):
queer phobic joke made by Lisa Kudrow at the tippity
top of the movie, like it's essentially a no homo joke.
When they're dancing at the club. When they're dancing, right,
Romy says something like, I swear to God sometimes I
wish I was a lesbian, and Michelle says, well, do
you want to try to have sex sometime just to
see if we are? Rami says, yeah, right, Michelle, just

(55:35):
the thought of having sex with another woman creeps me out.
But then then there's a beat and then she says,
but if we're not married by the time we're thirty,
asked me again, this is which all over? I mean,
that's like essentially like the plot of like my best
friend's wedding, right, Like, is it if we're not married

(55:56):
by the time we're thirty? That's Mary each other. That's
a movie that's my best friend. You guys haven't done
my best friends. I am shocked. It's crazy that I
haven't seen that movie and yet I've seen I now
pronounce your chucking Larry. That's let's never do that. Let's

(56:18):
find right now. I never see that movie. I would
love to see if Paul Blart mall Cop passed the
back del cast, we do can we do Blart March
on the Patreon Sure, okay, both both Blarts O Paton.
There's two right, it's or something. I don't even want

(56:40):
to know how much money that movie fucking made. O
Blart March you look out. I would also say that
there's some like the way the movie handles race is
also a very again there is I would I think
there's black Warren plays, Yeah, all the guys. Yeah, I

(57:04):
would do that. I would just yell that at my sister,
Just yell at ROMI. You were looking at what is
rough dumb troll? Right? So there like the only the

(57:29):
only person of color in the movie that has lines
is this like creepo like predatory guy who's constantly harassing
Romie at work. There's a fuel. There's there's a few
people of color who have lines, but they're all they
all work as mechanics at the job we do. We
see them talk even well, they're really just they're going
like oh that's my boy. Oh yeah, They're like, oh

(57:50):
he's really doing it. They're like listening to like, okay,
it's a futured extra. Their men are their men here,
their money here. You knew your coworker was banging someone
at work, would you excitedly creep up to the doortal
with they all, but have a tin can right there?

(58:13):
That scene is like weird, but it's it's like there's
an easy a vibe to that whole scene, which was fun,
but then it's also like, okay, it's another example of
what's not smoking work but near oil when yeah, you
work in the mechanic, like have a lit cigar. That

(58:36):
scene is interesting because it's like she dresses up all
you know, sexy, and she's like, I need a jaguire
is how I would say it. And um, so she's
like kind of intending to flirt to like get her
way into it, and then he's like, well, what's in
it for me? And then she's like, I'm not going
to have sex with you, so like to some degree,
she's like using like a slight bit of her sexuality

(58:59):
which manage of his crush on her before that. That's
the thing is like, it's the same thing as taking
Alan Cummings venture money, Like it depends on your personal
code of what what you want to do that I
wouldn't take Alan Cummings money. Just like that also means
it's like they need a man the help of a

(59:21):
man to get what they want. But then also it's like, well,
but it's set up in a very specific way. I
don't know. I mean I do, I do see what
you're saying. And then also the fact that like the
only non white people we see like work at the
Jaguar dealership. Or there's like one very brief part of
the high school reunion where Lisa Kudros talking at a

(59:43):
group of people of here and they're the joke is
that they are not allowed to respond. It is like
the Asian kids that went to school that don't have names,
don't have any backstory, and she just talks at them,
so they either is the joke that they don't stand
what she's saying, is that that just what it's supposed

(01:00:03):
to be. That doesn't make that doesn't make any sense
because they went to high school in Tucson. That joke
was weird and insensitive there. And I mean I I
was reading back most of this stuff I saw in
my research of like criticism done of this movie, which

(01:00:26):
inn was largely uncritical. What a fun romp, and they're
not wrong. It has like a seventy six round tomatoes though,
which is hating on it. Yeah, probably rodri Ebert, that motherfucker.
I read the movies. Roderi Ebert, Rogerie Aubert had some
deep seated issues, but anyway, value of the dolls too.

(01:00:47):
He didn't understand He didn't understand anything that wasn't men.
But anyways, a lot of what I read was written
less than two years ago for the twentieth anniversary of
this movie, and reading some of the more modern criticism
of it is interesting. And there was one piece specifically
I read that was published in Bitch magazine. Never heard

(01:01:08):
of it in two thousand seventeen. That was a point
that I hadn't really thought of during my viewing of it.
But the the whole thesis of it was that this
movie is built around the idea that like, white women
are allowed to be mediocre, and that is like a goofy,
funny joke, but if you swap anyone else out, it

(01:01:30):
becomes a joke that mainstream America probably couldn't have accepted,
which I thought was interesting. Well, Lincoln, I really killed
the room on that. I'm just pondering the mean, isn't
I mean the Harold and Kumar movies. I have only
seen one but like the one that you go to

(01:01:52):
white Castle, but it is that it's a stone Stoner
so it's a little different. But it's like they're just regular.
Do they have impressive jobs? I feel like I don't
remember what if they were fortunate, but also like what
is an impressive job? You know, like let's redefine what
that means. I know, I do think it's really refreshing
that they are so unremarkable, you know what I mean.

(01:02:16):
I think that thoughts. I don't know, as someone who's
like a girly girl who has local fries is like
a lot all that ship. I really do love that
they are fully just dizzy girls that get by some
figure out how to survive. It's funny, it's refreshing. I

(01:02:36):
don't know. I think I hate that like women have
to be like exceptional to just be thought of as competent.
You know. That infuriates me. So it is I think
nice to just see but that's what the real you
not that they're real people. But it's like, not everyone's

(01:02:58):
going to be like a straight a student and go
to grad school screenwriting from Boston University. Sorry, some women
are just like okay, that's right, and they both accept
each other and love each other, but just I think
the greater and more important thing is that there's genuine

(01:03:19):
like friendship and support there and for sure expectations of
the world that bring in the conflict. I would say though,
and this isn't really a criticism, but it was just
something I noticed that is that they are both like
very stereotypically like hyper feminine in their you know, appearance,
and their behavior and their interests and stuff like that.
Like we don't know that much about them aside from

(01:03:43):
they love fashion. They love you know, wearing unique outfits
and fun, frisky subcolor. It's so weird that they're just
I don't I don't know where everyone keeps. This movie
gaslights you in a number of ways, whether you're like
Lisa Kujo and Mirosorpono are, and that their outfits, well,

(01:04:03):
that they think that about them, that they in high school,
everyone's like they're like and they everyone they're confusing. That
is bizarre. Yeah, And that their clothes are stupid when
we all know that their clothes are. But then like
they think about themselves that they need to lose weight,

(01:04:25):
and one of the things are fixated on is like
weight loss and stuff like that, which is like again
for a very stereotypical I feel like the kickboxing. So again,
like this isn't a criticism, but they're just like very
hyper hyper feminine. Who wrote the movie? How did this

(01:04:45):
even happen? It is written by Robin Schiff, based on
a play that she also wrote, directed by a man
David Merkin Is. I'm sorry, icon, I don't need to

(01:05:06):
know anything else about him. His last name is market.
Just make sure I didn't miss this. I'm gonna go
on IMDb. David Mark, Right, okay, direct, Okay, So yeah,
I mean, do we have any other final thoughts about
the film? I don't know. I mean I can't think

(01:05:27):
of Cameron Man. Yeah, set that was really I love
that she was like, please don't tell me to go
fuck myself. It really hurts my feeling. I mean that's
so real and vulnerable. I know, like she's like, clearly

(01:05:47):
I've been to a lot of therapy, worked on herself,
worked it out, She's done the work. She's sending boundaries
creating an expectation. I like it, like I I mean,
I would assume this movie paved the way for a
lot of other like because this movie is like very
well loved. It was loved when it was when it

(01:06:09):
came out, which never happens, especially like a female lead
major comedy movie like that. It broke a lot of
barriers in many ways for all of its fault and
just a mediocre female friendship you don't see anywhere, even
in an era where I feel like now we're getting
more female representation than in past years, but there is

(01:06:33):
still like that symptom of the Mary Sue of like
the women who are allowed to be the leads and
movies are superheroes or they're perfect, you still can't be
like a fucking idiot like I just true progress is
female idiot representation and this is it, and it's it's
great and pure and like very I don't know, I

(01:06:55):
really like this movie. I will say that it is
yet another movie with a female leader, in this case
to female leads that ends in like a formal social event.
Usually it's a wedding, a prom, a ball. This, I
would say, so it ends in their store. But a

(01:07:20):
big component of this movie, I would argue is the
reunion expand well, let me it's different from those like
the typical examples of it being like a wedding or
a problem, which is what it usually is, but it's
still I feel like female centered stories feel like they

(01:07:41):
always have to end in some sort of like big
formal social event because that's what women like to do.
The only thing I would say there is that reunion
is less of a gendered semal events where everyone's whipping
there dick out real or figurative, putting it on the
table at their reunion saying this is what I've done. Yeah,

(01:08:03):
I think if it ended, if it truly ended at
the reunion and they go in the helicopter and that's it,
Like I would be down with that. But it's like,
but they have their store to become the successful business
woman that they set out to be to be. Yeah. True,
I mean for a pair of mediocre dumb dumps. They

(01:08:25):
sure their girl bosses now the girl bosses. Girl bosses.
They had a trouble term giant baby that curses and
says it a lot. Barolo said that character. That character too. Yeah,
the fact that they like help each other out instead

(01:08:45):
of like continuing. They're sort of like an she has
friends now she raw dogs, Janine raw dogs the boys.
So that's always good news, you know, that's raw dogging
in the field. Yeah, usually good news. Usually how optimistic argue? Usually,

(01:09:14):
I guess there's no way to say without revealing too
much on my personal history. Should we take any questions
or comments from the crowd? Oh yeah, yeah, I'm time.
What do we miss? Yes, I am what's your name? Differently,
let's fight. Um. So, as soon as we saw a

(01:09:36):
feminist icon cat eating junk food on the couch, we
got very excited for a potential cat Facts with Caitlin.
So I was hoping ed Coard request that citer. It's
a Michelle. She's flipping through the magazine. She's like, I
don't understand how models work or magazine. And then in
the background it's eating cake. The cat it's like a

(01:09:59):
piece of They're fine with it because what yeah, it's
note are eating our jellybeans and nothing else. It seems
there's a lot of great product placement. There's a whole
shot where you're just like, we've just made dollars, but

(01:10:20):
you're right, there is a cat in the background. Um,
that is eating cake. And just in case anyone was curious,
cats do have eight nipples. It's a cat Facts with Caitland.
Although I recently learned that that is not necessarily true.
Sometimes cats Wow, sometimes cats have a cat alternative facts.
It's this is please represent cats. Sometimes cats have as

(01:10:45):
few as for nipples or as many as ten. Apparently,
so I've been wrong the whole time. Got an average
of eight. I believe, shaken to my marrow. I know
any other question comments, Let's discuss whether or not the

(01:11:07):
movie passes the Bechdel test. Yes, it does in the
very first scene, in the very first lines that are spoken,
like Rommy and Michelley are talking about pretty Woman and
how the sales women in that movie are whores. So
it's maybe not the most progressive passing that we've seen.
But I also think that there's a sub pass in

(01:11:28):
that scene where the scene and pretty Woman is also passing. Yeah,
perhaps as a new do we do the sales woman
have actual names? That's what I was going to ask.
I don't know. I've nervous, very Sue. Wait, what when
the man is like when she goes to the shop
where they do help her, He's like, very path very Sue,

(01:11:52):
help this woman, hid her, this woman? But do they speak?
I would imagine I think they do because they're having
some sort of conflict in the story's like go get
me this shirt and then that's and she's like, okay,
that's that would be a pass. I'm gonna I'm gonna
first double pass, and then several of the passes are

(01:12:14):
also Janine Gruffalo telling Toby to funk off. Um, but
a lot of fun dynamic, a lot of those scenes
do pass, a lot of the conversations do pass. And
uh yeah, it's a hard yess. Yeah. Absolutely. Let's write
the movie on our nipple scale. Alright, nipple scale nip Okay,

(01:12:35):
well it has the nipple scale change now that we
have this new cat fact. Oh my god. Yeah, anywhere
between four and ten nipples, or we can stick with
the old one, which is to rate to the movie
zero to five nipples based on its portrayal and representation
of women. Um, I'm gonna go with three, I think

(01:12:58):
for this um because is while it is it's you know,
it's a celebration of female friendship. Always loves stories like that.
There is still a lot of like antagonism among different
women in the story. And you know, the way that
the movie handles queerness and race is not well. And
also there's that weird incest joke where she's like, yeah,

(01:13:19):
you lost your virginity to your cousin. I wouldn't brag
about that. Yeah. So it's like again like the very
Liken based attempts at humor that are generally regressive, but
the female friendship aspect of it and the fact that
they even though they're like feuding for a little while,

(01:13:42):
feud a show that at the Golden Clothes bluster. So
the feuding for part of the movie, but there you know,
their friendship is pure and beautiful. Um and I love it.
So three nipples and I will give of them all
to the unnamed orange cat who eats cake. I'll go

(01:14:05):
through on this one as well. I agree with with
what you're saying where there is definitely some dated dynamics
between some of the female groups that I think could
have it wouldn't have been that hard to resolve or
at least subvert a little bit. I feel like there's
not really much subversion done with the high school dynamics,
where it's one thing to present like popular girls not

(01:14:29):
popular girls, and then the way they interact with each
other ten years later could be telling or or reflect
something about how people grow over time. But this movie
doesn't really go for that, and in fact ends on
a joke making fun of a pregnant woman. So that's
not great, you know, it's it's I mean, yeah, it's
a very white movie. It's some and sometimes I couldn't

(01:14:52):
tell Miras Orvina and Lisa Gudreau apart that was I'm sorry,
but but it is confusing and but mediocre. Female representation
needs to take hold in culture. That's the marker of
true progress when non exceptional women can be in charge

(01:15:13):
of a movie and capture the hearts of millions without
being punched down at all the time or made a
mockery of. I think that's great. Also, back brace girls,
and that's you know, I if you've read Danny by
Judy Bloom, you'll know that seeing a back brace girl

(01:15:33):
that's not Danny is critical and Alan Cumming is awesome.
So I include that in my representation of women's score
three nippies and I'll give one to Romy, one to Michelle,
and one to Alan. Five because I'm a stand Yeah,

(01:15:56):
it's problematic. Everything is problematic. It's funny, it's a beautiful movie.
She's she does the which guy? Will I have sex?
With at the real end in a movie. It's amazing

(01:16:17):
someone wrote it down and then they spent money shooting it,
lighting it, sounding it. I just I love that it's
so girly and that they get to be so girl
and unapologetically so like very Also, was anyone getting thumb
and Louise vibes when they're like driving through the desert

(01:16:37):
in a convertible they're scarves on their heads? What a
homage I love? I was thinking recently, I was like,
what if we tried we were on YouTube and we
tried to do the thulm It and Louise challenge? Or
did you just drive off a cliff with your friend?
But no, it's I'm gonna make it happen that the

(01:17:00):
Thelma and Louise child. It's a good idea I tell
to anyone you hate I So hope that catch us
on all right. Well, Danielle, thank you so much for
being here. Thank you for having up for Danielle Perez.
Where can people follow you online? What would you like

(01:17:21):
to plug? Follow me online at Diva Deluxe, Knowing at
the End, on Twitter and Instagram, and check out my
show dates at the Danielle Perez dot com hooray. Thanks
to all of you for being here, Thanks to the
Ruby for having us, and get home safe, have a
great night. Thanks for coming by. Hey real quick. Yeah,

(01:17:45):
it's something we didn't mention during the live show, but
I think it is worth mentioning. Definitely is the mirror. Serrino,
who plays romy in the movie basically got blacklisted in
Hollywood by Harvey Weinstein for a while. Our king j
k him straight to hell. Some of the reading that

(01:18:05):
I had done said that he sexually harassed her and
then told Peter Jackson to not consider her for a
role in Lord of the Rings. Awful, terrible, but I
would you know, I hate Lord of the Rings, so
for me, that works out. But she did not deserve

(01:18:28):
any of what she got. Um. Also, she had worked
with Woody Allen in a movie that earned her an
oscar shortly before shortly before Romey and Michelle, and then
she later apologized to Dylan Farrow for having previously praised
his work and for kind of ignoring Dylan Farrow and

(01:18:51):
the things that she had been saying about Woody Allen.
Mirror Servina tends to be on the history yes, in
every way, So tip our hat to her and uh yeah,
that just is worth the mention. Yeah, for sure, and
for listening. Thank you for listening. And speaking of thanks,
we wanted to say thanks to the Ruby for having us,

(01:19:13):
to all of their staff for all of their help,
for to everyone who came to the show to watch Sammy,
to Sammy for recording for us, friend of the cast,
friend of the cast, and h yeah, and thanks to
you listeners for doing just that listening. You can find
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(01:19:35):
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(01:20:18):
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(01:20:41):
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