Spirited Away with Ayumi Shinozaki

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, listeners, Just a quick note about this episode. Some
of the audio is slightly distorted here and there. You'll
hear some crackling. It's not terribly excessive, but it is
there enough that you notice, so we just want to
apologize for that. Hopefully it's not too disruptive to your
listening experience, and we hope you enjoy the episode. On

(00:25):
the Beck Doll Cast, the questions asked if movies have
women in um, are all their discussions just boyfriends and
husbands or do they have individualism? The patriarchy zef invest
start changing it with the Beck del Cast, Jamie Caitlin,
it's getting dark. Oh no, we have to get you

(00:45):
out of here. We have to get you out of
this podcast because if you stay, get me out of
your you're gonna turn into a pig and maybe also
a spirit. So ship is it a metaphor for something? Maybe?
Oh no, too late, now you have to get a job.
Is it's probably capitalism? It's always capitalism, the environment or

(01:08):
coming of age? Oh no, I'm a pig, like like
um me eating uh smart ones? As we record, I'm like,
oh no, slow down, you're smart ones slower. I think
that was an incredible. That was a very I thought
you were going to make me hold my breath is

(01:29):
what I thought was going to happen. Oh, but also
that would have be impossible to pass the bucktele test
because I would be unable to speak. That's true. So
my version was amazing. Ten out of ten. No notes, no, no,
thank you. Welcome to the bucktele Cast. By the way, indeed,
my name is Caitlin Darante. My name is Jamie Loftus,

(01:50):
and this is our podcast where we take a look
at your favorite movies in the whole wide world using
an intersectional feminist lens. And today kick off, I guess
a unit that kind of makes it sound like this
podcast to school. I don't love that, but a a
unit of films that has been requested for years and

(02:12):
years and years, and the time is now they're all finally,
at least in the US, they are all streaming in
a pretty accessible way, which is what we were waiting
for for a long time, and then we just kind
of waited another year for fun. Uh. But you needed
to cover Shrek to priorities. Look, I mean, with with

(02:33):
all due respect, there were some animated stories that needed
to be looked at and and by that I mean
in Shrek two and only Shrek two. Um. But yes,
we were starting our Miyazaki month and we're starting with
his Oscar winning film It's True, which I didn't really Well,

(02:54):
we'll get into there's so much it's spirited away day.
It is on the Besel Cast. Yes it is. Oh wait,
we didn't say what the Bechdel Test was. I guess
we should say that. We usually say that what is it?
It's a media metric created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechdel,
sometimes called the Bechtel Wallace Test. There are many versions
of it. Ours is this Two people of a marginalized

(03:16):
gender with names have to speak to each other, and
their conversation has to be about something other than a man,
and ideally it's a narratively meaningful conversation. Yes, which in
Miyazaki canon is not usually not a problem. Too hard
at all. So very excited for today's episode. I can't

(03:40):
wait to Okay, let's bring in our guests and then
I have a really pressing question. An amazing guest today,
We absolutely do. She's a writer, translator, host and producer
of Sparkle Side Chats podcast. It's Ayumi Shinozaki, Hello, welcome.
I was holding my breath waiting to be introduced. Wow,

(04:04):
well you could finally breathe. Yes, it's wild because we
couldn't see you from the beginning of the recording, and
then we heard it a sharp exhale, and then you appeared.
It's very excited to be here. Thank you for being here.
We're so excited to kick things off with a spirited
away episode with you. This is definitely an extremely American statement. However,

(04:29):
immediately the second Lynn began speaking. I don't know if
I remembered this from the first time I had seen
this movie, but the moment Lynn began speaking, I was like, Oh,
Megara Hercules, Disney's Hercules. It's all I mean I was.
I was a big Hercules head. I don't know that
that would fare very well on this show at all,

(04:49):
but I really loved it when I was tiny and
um her voice unmistakable, Yes, definitely, yes, I do think that. Um.
One thing that's really interest thing about this movie in
terms of, you know, why it's so well done, or
like why it's so popular in the s S. Because
it was the first one that was localized by Disney

(05:10):
in particular because before that there were different other studios
doing it, like sometimes it wasn't very successful. Um toto
did I think the original total did? Okay? I think
I remember watching that one in English, but this was
the first Disney one. I think that you can definitely
hear it in the localization makes sense. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

(05:31):
I was the whole adaptation process I watched. I meane
it was a heavily, heavily disneyfied look at the adaptation process.
But it was interesting. I've never sort of seen that
process done before so closely with the with the filmmaker too.
So let's let's get into it, and uh, what's your

(05:52):
history and relationship with Spirited Away? Um? Yeah, So I
guess my history with this movie is really connected to
my history with Ghibili in general, which, um, you know,
for anyone who has no idea who I am. Um,
I am Japanese and white. Um. And my my father,
who is a white American, he actually was like really

(06:14):
really into movies, and so he got into Ghibli movies
in the eighties, like through his best friend who was
a Japanese American and they they used to basically do
fan dubbing of the movies for their friends because it
was just so inaccessible. Yeah, so, um, hold on, I
actually did I I am both my parents to get

(06:37):
at their their history of Gibilie before they got married.
But um, yeah, so what he told me was, like,
you know, they really went line by line and translated.
They did Nashka, they did um The Castle of Kaiostro,
which is a loop on the third movie but was
also directed by Miyazaki, then Lapida, and then um also Across,

(06:58):
which is not Ghibli but is a very big, like
sci fi Japanese movie. But um, definitely, Like I was
always closer to my father in the first place, but like, um,
you know, when it comes to movies, and especially Jibli movies,
I was always like watching them with this idea of like,
you know, these are some of the best, you know

(07:19):
movies out there, and like they were kind of the
way to kind of understand that like animation was a
genre and you know, like just because something is animated
doesn't mean it's like less of a movie than a
live action one. Um. But yes, since you know, in
the you know, lady eighties and early nineties, a lot
of more kid friendly Jubilee movies had come out, So

(07:40):
those were the ones I definitely watched more, you know,
Total and Kiki slivery service. But it wasn't until like
thinking about my relationship to this movie that I realized
how perfect this movie was for me. Because this movie
came out in um well, originally came out in two
thousan one in Japan, but I believe it came out
in two two in the US in its localized version,

(08:01):
and that's where I grew up. And in two thousand one, I,
um I was ten years old, so at the same
age as Hito was, and then um I had moved
to uh well, I moved within New York City, but
I had a pretty major move, and um yeah, it
was just like this, uh this really interesting movie for me.

(08:22):
And then the other thing is that this movie is
very very based in like traditional Japanese folklore, which I
never really had a relationship grow with growing up because
my mother is in like this neo Buddhist group. For me,
I call it a cult. They don't call it a cult,
but whatever, that's neither he nor there. But the point
is there very much they reject those like old ways

(08:43):
and so on. So I really didn't have a relationship
with those. So this was like me learning a lot about,
you know, my own background in a way. So I
was so obsessed with it. Um I was obsessed with
how it looked. I was obsessed with the idea of
like going to another world and getting a dragon boyfriend
and all that so relatable. Very Jamie, what about your history? Um?

(09:12):
I had seen this movie once before. I didn't grow up.
I wish I had grown up in a household that
was more. Um I guess active about getting me Yazaki
movies because I only saw I think two growing up.
I saw Kiki Delivery Service and spirited away both at
my friend's house. Shout out, Samantha, Honeywell, um at least

(09:37):
my recollection of it. Growing up, it was like there
would be one kid that would have the Miyazaki movies.
But it wasn't like they should have been in every
household the way that there were five, you know whatever.
My my parents were just like very very much and
this isn't this is the most parents. You know, it's
a hard life. But they would just be like, Okay,
we're gonna go see the Disney one. We're gonna see

(10:00):
Dana Carvey, Master of Disguise because for some reason I
really wanted to see that. Other than that we would
just go see the Disney movie. And but I wish
that I had seen everything that was available younger. But
I remember being so fixated on Kiki, like Kiki's Delivery
Service was it. I loved it so much. I really

(10:21):
liked Spirited Away. And I also vaguely remember thinking like,
I don't know what the child's like equivalent of this,
but I'm like this might be a little over my
head when I was and I was a kid, because
it's so beautiful and it's this amazing adventure. And I
remember being scared of no Face and then also being
amazed when she was nice to no Face because that

(10:43):
didn't happen in movies the villain falls off a cliff
at the end of a movie, but that like this,
this movie is like so I don't know, I mean
I had, I hadn't ever watched it um as an adult,
and so preparing for this episode was so wild. There's
just there's so much, it's such it I it's no

(11:04):
longer over my head, although there's there's so much to
talk about because it's because it's about capitalism and we
ever heard of as adult have heard of her. Um.
But I I really enjoyed prepping for this episode and
just learning more about Miyazaki in general. I didn't know
much about Um. I only knew kind of the broad

(11:27):
strokes of his background, and so it was really cool
learning about his background and his politics and and I'm
very excited to talk about this, Caitlin, what's your history
was Spirited Away? I did not have one. I had
not seen it until prepping for this episode. I've watched
it three times now because there's a lot to digest.

(11:48):
It's a heady kids film. It really is if you're
operating at a Shrek level, which I was and still am. Yeah,
we kind of come in at the Shreky end point,
and sometimes you gotta kind of level up, right. So
I grew up with Totro. That was my absolute ship.

(12:10):
But that was the only Miyazaki movie I saw until
I think a couple of years ago when I saw kikiS,
And then it was only within the past week that
I watched Spirited Away. And now I really want to
like make it a point to get through the entire
uba of Miyazaki. But Um, I'm still working my way

(12:32):
through it. I was not expecting Spirited Away to be
so wild because scary, it's scary. There's a lot of
like frightening imagery. There's a lot of just like wild
stuff that happens. I mean, it's a children's movie set
in like a horny bath house for spirits. Like it's

(12:56):
just wild. So I was kind of expecting something more
along the line of I mean, obviously, like there are
elements of you know, fantasy, and in both Toto and
kikiS delivery service, so I was expecting it to be
like that but still kind of tame like those movies are,
and then Spirited Away is just like, oh um, so
it was. It was a wild ride for me. But yeah,

(13:20):
I'm I'm excited to discuss and this is one of
those episodes where like my notes make no sense and
I it's mostly just like non binary icons. The Footballs
is this movie about capitalism and environmentalism question mark Like

(13:41):
it's just like, well, yeah, gold coins and rivers um.
But it's so I mean, it's like, that's so incredible
for for I mean, for any movie to like address
either of those topics well or thoughtfully, much less a

(14:01):
movie that is like very accessible and like understanding of
kids too. It's just this movie blew my mind. I
really really love it. Yes, So with that in mind,
should I do the recap? Yes? Yes, Okay. I do
feel like I left out some details of the story

(14:23):
in the interest of brevity, because this movie it was
difficult to concisely recap, because again, there are so many
things that happened. There's a lot of details. But I
did my best. Okay. So we meet to Hero, a
ten year old girl who is in the car with
her mom and dad and they are all headed to

(14:45):
the new house they're moving into. On the way, they
come upon this odd building with a long, dark tunnel
and they decide to walk through it, and on the
other side they find this abandoned the park, and despite
to Hero's protests, they all walk through the tunnel go

(15:06):
into the park, and her parents find this food vendor
and start chowing down on a ton of food right
away they I thought it was like I had to
there's I don't know. I mean, obviously was not picking
up on this as a child, but like right away
the script is referencing like contemporary Japanese history that I
had to keep pausing and being like wait, what where

(15:29):
I think it's to hero's father when they first get
to the um abandoned theme park. He like mentions stock
crash like an economic crash, and like contextualizes why the
park was abandoned. And it's done so quickly and so easily,
Like I just it's so well done. It's so cool. Yeah,

(15:50):
even like the very very beginning, like the opening shot
of the movie, like thinking about it, I mean they
have her read over what the card is, but like
you open with the shot of the bouquet of flowers
and this card from Tokito's friends, you know, saying like
I'll miss you and all of that, and it's just
like the way that it just doesn't hesitate to just
get you right into the story. So it just it's

(16:13):
really great. There's so much that happens, and it's very
it doesn't stop to have to like explain everything in
you know, amazing detail or whatever. And as and as
a group that just did the Door of the Explorer movie.
Not all movies are like that. A lot of movies
it's part of the form to stop and tell you
what you're watching, right, Okay, So her parents are eating

(16:38):
all of this food, and to Hero wanders off and
she sees this bath house and she's like, wow, I
wonder if I'm going to end up in there for
the next several weeks question Mark Unclaire. Then she bumps
into another kid who says, you shouldn't be here. You
need to leave before it gets dark, and she's like,

(17:00):
what was that all about? But she runs back to
her parents, and while she's doing that, the park seems
to becoming alive and is occupied by spirits. So then
she finds her parents, who have turned into pigs. So scary, Yeah,
how like I that's one moment that and no face.

(17:21):
I remember the two moments that I was like, like,
the idea of leaving your parents you come back in
their pigs? Yep, still scary. So she starts freaking out
and she tries to leave, but the way they came
in is now under water. Then she watches a bunch
of spirits disembark a fairy and head into the bath house.

(17:43):
And then that kid, Haku, finds her again and he
wants to help to Hero find her parents and leave.
So Haku tries to sneak to Hero into the bath house,
but she is discovered by all of the creatures and
and spirits as being a human because she has to

(18:03):
just it's so good the whole Like I really like
whenever a writer finds something that, like, you just know,
kids were super receptive to seeing it in theaters, like
being asked to hold your breath and like that whole thing,
Like it just I don't know. I was doing it
as I was watching it, and I'm old, but like

(18:24):
as a kid, you're like, oh, that's such a smart
thing to do as a writer, because there's no kid
watching that movie who's not going to try to do
the same thing and also probably not make it. It's
so good. So she's discovered as being a human. So
they have to run away, and Hawku tells her that
if she wants to help her parents, she has to

(18:45):
go to the boiler room and ask Kamagi for a job,
and if she doesn't get a job, you Boba, the
witch who runs the bath house, will turn to hero
into an animal. So we're like, Okay, the steaks are
high and it's like boiler roum, what is this Titanic? Okay,

(19:07):
that was the Titanic reference I was able to find. Yeah,
this movie does have a small connection to Titanic. I
suppose technically speaking, yes, I wonder if we have the
same fact, would you like to share yours? Yeah, it's um.
So this movie was the top grossing movie in Japan
until uh yeah, in late was usurped by the neat

(19:30):
Demon Slayer movie, which is whatever, but not for me.
But it's fine. Um but yeah, so it went for
not almost yeah, nineteen years it was the top movie
in Japan, and before that that was Titanic. Yeah, I
have the same fact. Yes, yes, Titanic had a brief rain,
but it had to end. Okay. So Camagi, the boiler

(19:54):
room man turns out to be a guy with six
arms and all these little balls of soot work for him,
and Camachi does not want to help to Hero at first,
but then he warms up to her and tells her
that she'll have to make a deal with you Baba
if she wants to work at the bath house. So

(20:15):
then this woman named Lynn takes to Hero to see
you Baba, and along the way we get a lot
of visuals of the bath house. We see some spirits
enjoying themselves, et cetera. Lynn appears to be kind of
like the head of the cleaning women, and she's she's

(20:39):
like the head of cleaning. Yeah, yeah, yes. So then
Hiro finally meets you Baba, who has a baby, a
large baby, but does any baby A big old baby,
A huge baby in the English dub voiced by Tommy
Pickles expert bay b Who is that Tara Strong? Tara Strong? Yeah, okay,

(21:05):
she's like an iconic. I mean she's been she's she's
Bubbles from Powerpuff Girls. I can go on about. She's
like an animation legends. Great. I think she's like probably
I would say maybe the top most like famous female
voice actress in the US if I had to pick someone,
got it. I don't know my voice actors. I guess okay,

(21:28):
like yeah, it's like, yeah, I was just I was
delighted to find out that she was big baby. She's
big baby. You Babba also has a few little minions,
including a trio of green heads that bounce around. She
also has a crow that looks like her, or like

(21:51):
a bird of some kind that looks a lot like her.
So you Babba makes to Hero sign an employment contract,
and in so doing takes away to Hero's name and
says that her name is now sen for the sake
of this recap, though, I'm going to keep calling her
to Hero. It's what she'd want, It's exactly so. Then

(22:15):
Haku returns to set to Hero up with a job,
but he's acting cold and distant now for some reason,
she gets assigned to be Lynn's assistant, and Hero continues
to have a difficult time adjusting and processing all this
wild stuff that's going on due to being thrust into

(22:38):
child labor. Because because you're trying to save your parents
who are now pigs, you know, they're like, the only
way to save your parents is child labor. I was like, jeezy,
but this is all going somewhere, so don't worry. So
then Haku, who is nice and warm again, takes chikiro

(23:01):
to see her parents at the pig Pen, and Haku
tells her that he can't remember his real name, and
you Baba controls I think, like all of the staff
of the bathhouse by stealing their names. Then she sees
Ku flying through the air because he can turn into

(23:22):
a dragon. He's so crushable that Haku, yes, like and
I will get plat but like, I appreciate how Yazaki
generally doesn't like push romantic narratives, particularly on children, which
a stunning number of children's movies cannot say for some reason.

(23:43):
But if if your tend watching that movie, you can
see what you want to see. You can see a
dragon boyfriend in the distance. You can see a dragon
friend in the distance. You know, sure, I have the beholder. Yeah, personally,
I saw a dragon boyfriend. I saw a dragon friend.
And it could just be because I'm watching this for

(24:06):
the first time as a thirty five year old and
not thinking about child romances. But I think that that's
actually really healthy. If you yeah, I would be concerned
if I would maybe be worried if he saw a
dragon boyfriend. Okay. Also, Chahiro occasionally passes this spirit who
we will come to know as No Face. Um, but

(24:28):
we don't fully meet No Face yet. So Chahiro starts
working in the bath house and after a while she
lets No Face in, who has just again kind of
been lurking around outside. Chahiro and Lynn have to clean
this really big tub, and No Face helps her get

(24:48):
this token she needs for the tub. He seems to like,
really take a liking to Jahiro. I wrote down embarrassingly,
I wrote down, No Face is like meat Loaf and
Fight Club. He's just waiting outside, and he's like, some
days someone's gonna my day is gonna come and they're

(25:10):
gonna let me in. I the similarities end, but I
was like, oh, he's like, I don't know why. Now,
anytime someone's waiting outside, I'm like, oh, like meat Loaf
and fight Club. Um, but that's how associate waiting outside
for a long period of time. Well. Also famously, meat

(25:33):
Loaf and Fight Club communicates by going oh yeah, much
like no Face. So actually, the similarities don't end there.
So meanwhile, a stink spirit shows up at the bath
house and needs a bath in the big tub that
Jihiro and Lynne just cleaned, and everyone is grossed out

(25:55):
by the stink spirit, which turns out to not even
be a stink spirit. It's a river spirit that just
had a bunch of trash lodged in it, which to
Hero figures out and helps get all of the trash out.
After that, the reverse spirit leaves behind a small round
ball I'm not quite sure exactly what it is, it's

(26:16):
just a little gift plot pellet right, and also leaves
behind a bunch of gold, which very much pleases you Baba,
and you Baba compliments to Hero for doing a good
job and making her a bunch of money. Now, speaking
of gold, we learn that No Face, who is still

(26:37):
just sort of lurking around, seems to be able to
just conjure gold in his hands, which he uses. And
Fight Club could not do that. I think his story
would have ended very differently. That would be a very
different movie. Yeah, we love a conjugal Okay. So No

(27:01):
Face uses his gold making abilities to lure in a
frog and then he eats the frog. Then we cut
to the next day and No Face is just like
going wild. He's eating a ton of food, he's giving
away a bunch of gold. Things are going off the rails. Meanwhile,

(27:23):
a bunch of what appears to be paper birds are
chasing Haku in dragon form and he gets badly injured
and is losing a lot of blood. So Hiro is
kind of rushing around trying to help him, trying to
save him. Meanwhile, No Face is eating people like he's
just things when a little too far in Capitalism Cafeteria. Yeah,

(27:52):
so Tahiro is still kind of rushing around trying to
clean up some messes. She bumps into you Boba's baby baby.
She also bumps into you Baba's twin sister, Zeneba, who
turns the baby into a mouse and turns the bird
into a much smaller bird. And Zeneba is there because

(28:15):
she wants the golden seal that Haku had stolen from her,
which Hawko later vomits up, so Chihiro decides to return
it to Zeneba so that Haku will be free of
its curse and he will get better. Hihiro is an angel.
She's doing a lot of emotional labor. She's really yeah,

(28:40):
she's really doing it all. Yeah, I love her. I
mean there's always the like, you know, women are conditioned
to apologize too much, and she's taken like that's being
taken a step further here because she's apologizing for behalf
of a dragon boyfriend. Right, Yes, yes, that's a very

(29:00):
Japanese thing though, like it's I think like in general
it's not it's not necessarily as gender. I mean, it
definitely is in this particular case. But yeah, like you know,
in Japan, it's like if someone bumps into you, you
apologize for being in the way. It's the kind of thing.
So yeah, I do think that I don't think it's

(29:21):
as like I didn't read it as that way as much.
Maybe that's good to know. Yeah, yeah for for me,
what saw I mean, I I appreciate that context too,
because I just didn't know I've I was like, well,
it's she's U. It felt more like a friendship sacrifice, right,
and like going to apologize to I don't I mean,

(29:42):
I don't know. I don't know. I don't know why
when a woman apologizes to another woman. I'm like, well,
it could be worse. Sure, Okay, So she's about to
set off to go to Zenibus to apologize, but first
Chihiro has to play Kate No Face, who is now
way bigger, way more monstrous. He's eaten so much food,

(30:04):
he's eaten several other spirits. Tahiro then feeds him the
gift from the river spirit, which makes No Face barf
up everything he's eaten, including the people and that frog
he barts. He barfs up the capitalism metaphor that he
was eating, and then Shahiro learns No Face out of

(30:27):
the bath house, and he returns to his former state
and accompanies Tahiro, the Mouse and the Little Blackbird on
their journey to Zaniba's place, they get on a train.
We get that I think one of the most iconic
shots of the movie where they're sitting next to each other. Meanwhile,

(30:48):
back at the bath house, Hakku wakes up feeling all better,
and Camaji tells him that love broke the spell. So
again we're like, is this like dragon boyfriend slash girlfriend love?
Is this platonic love? It's open to interpretation, but love
broke the spell. So Hako goes to you Baba and

(31:09):
points out that her baby is gone, and she's like, oh, yeah,
I guess you're right, and he's like, well, i'll go
and retrieve your baby if you tear up Jahiro's contract
and return her and her parents to the human world. Meanwhile,
Chihiro arrives at Zeneba's, who tells Shahiro that she'll have

(31:32):
to help her parents and Hako on her own, but
remembering her past might help with this, especially since Shahiro
thinks she's met Haku before. Then Zaniba gives her a
little gift. It's a it's a hair tie, sparkly hair
tie that I forgot about that detail, and it's a

(31:52):
nice touch. It's so sweet. Then Haku shows up as
a dragon, and he flies Chahiro back to the bath house,
and on the way she remembers meeting Haku before because
he saved her when she was drowning as a younger kid.
Because Haku is actually the Khaku River, which no longer

(32:14):
exists because it's been filled in by apartments. So you
find out your dragon boyfriend is also your river boyfriend,
and you're just like you're ten years old. And then
it also it also does what is what is this trope?
I'm trying to think of another like, Okay, Tuck over Lasting, Twilight,

(32:36):
Spirited Away, an eternal being is like my love interest
is a teenager or younger, and it's just something it's
not It's not egregious in this movie because it isn't explicit.
And again it's like you can very much opt in
or opt out depending on I guess how old you
were when you first saw the movie question mark. But

(33:01):
but I just I mean, that is always an interesting
trope to see crop up, because I feel like it's
rarely I mean, these are usually hetero matchups to begin with,
but but it's rarely the the girl in the equation
that gets to be an eternal being. It's usually an
old man who's seventeen, but he's actually five hondo and

(33:25):
it's like the Peter Pan thing. Yeah. Yeah, Well, so
she's got a river slash dragon boyfriend and awesome chaherin
Hucku returned to the bath house where you Baba has
one final test for chi Hero, which she passes, so
to Hero is free. She gets her name back. She

(33:47):
reunites with her parents and they walk back to their car,
and it seems like this all could have been a dream,
but there are little hints that the whole thing really happened,
including we see her sparkly headband. There's like dust and
debris on the car, because if it's been there for

(34:09):
a long time, the implication being at all actually happened.
The hairband proves it happened. That's her how I Beat
Shack moment. We've talked about this moment on the show before.
I forget. Yeah, yeah, what episode was that? That's very funny.
I don't know, but I know that it's the convention
where was it a dream or not? It used to

(34:30):
be a Wizard of Oz, but but then it later
became the Aaron Carter How I Beat shack, he beat
shock and his dream was it a dream? Well, he
woke up and he was wearing Shaquille O'Neil's jersey, so
it wasn't a dream. He did beat check, sort of
like how was Rose dreaming at the end of Titanic?
And some would say, yes, yes she was, she wasn't

(34:52):
and there's no proof. And then and then I say,
wait a minute, I think it's just as viable and
option if she was dreaming, but irrefutable proof. You don't
have a hair tie, you don't have the Shaquille O'Neal jersey. Anyways, anyways,
let's take a break story. Let's take a quick break,

(35:14):
and we'll come right back, and we're back. Amy, is
there anywhere you would like to start anything jumping out
to you right away? Um? I guess like there's there's
a lot of contexts. I think it's really interesting for

(35:34):
this story. Um. Yeah, I think in particular, there's like, again,
the localization was pretty incredible all things considered, and I
do think that is again a really really big reason
why the movie did so well and was so successful
in English. Um. But I do think that the context

(35:56):
for this story and why it stands out compared to
early or ghibli works is really important. So um, the
I guess the main thing being that, you know, Miyazuki
has said that he made this movie because he had
realized he hadn't made a movie for like, uh, for
young girls yet. Like I would say, kikiS liber service

(36:18):
kind of is, but that is an adaptation and um
in this case, like, so what he did, he like
was interacting I think with like some daughters of his
friends and realized that like he hadn't made a story
for them quite yet. Um. So you know, UM, I
think that's part of why, um, you know, to Hero
is ten years old. I think that this story and

(36:39):
the the way that he kind of got the idea
was reading um comics that were being published at this time.
The readings that I saw specifically cited um Nakashi Magazine
and Ribbon Magazine, and these are two of the major
uh they're like basically three major magazines for young girls
in terms of comics that published monthly, and um Naco

(37:00):
she's a big one because that's like where Sailor Moon
was published in a bunch of stuff like that. And
so I was looking back at the I went specifically
to look back at what was being published in you know,
and two thousand for what he probably was reading basically,
and you know, yeah, so you know, luckily, because these
are really big magazines, it's really easy to get the information,

(37:23):
and so you know, just looking at some of the stuff, um,
you know, they're they're all like there's you know, other
magical girls at this time. Um, and uh there's also
like stories like the UFO Baby, um, which is like
an alien baby comes from space and like someone has
to take care of it or whatever. Like, uh, there's

(37:43):
lots of all kinds of really ridiculous fun things that happened. Um,
there's a lot of sci fi and fantasy elements in
these stories. But I think that as far as stuff
that is kind of relevant to spread it away, I
think one of the major things is, like, you know,
a lot of these comics for why think, Uh, these
comics are almost always illustrated and written by women. It's

(38:06):
like this particular genre of comics for girls in Japan,
it's very for for you know, decades now, has been
a very female lead um industry. But um, you know,
these are stories that are meant to appeal to like
this exact demographic, so there's often like a little bit
of romance. Um there is uh to have like characters

(38:30):
like a hawk like character, right who is like you know,
like you mentioned like this kind of eternal boyfriend or whatever.
That is not uncommon um, but uh yeah, I think
that one thing that really stands out in comparison to
this movie is that a lot of the stories, if
they have fantasy or sci fi elements, they're definitely more
inspired by Western things, while Spirited Away, of course, is

(38:52):
extremely Japanese. So I do think that that is an
interesting like difference, I guess if that makes sense. Yeah, yeah,
And I was reading a lot about that context too,
in terms of you know, Miyazaki wanting to create a
film specifically for ten year old girls, and which I
found interesting because like several of his movies before that

(39:16):
are like very appropriate for that specific target demo, because
like I was watching Toto as a ten year old girl,
like you know, kikiS delivery services appropriate for a ten
year old girl, even though that character is a few
years older. But I mean kids love a few years older.
That's aspiration. Um. Yeah, that he was like reading these

(39:41):
comics and felt that they only offered material about like
girls and their crushes and romances, and he felt that
that's not what at least like the you know, daughters
of his friends that he ended up wanting to make
this movie for what they deer in their hearts. So

(40:02):
he wanted to make this movie and about a female
heroine that those girls could look up to. So and
that's I think one of the other reasons that I
didn't read the Haku to hero relationship as a romance,
because he deliberately was like, well, I don't want this
to be about like crushes and romance, but he gave
us that shot with the hands at the end, so

(40:25):
you know, right, But also the movie doesn't center around
their relationship. It's more about to hero, you know, doing
child labor. So yeah, yeah, it's definitely her story, which
is important, um, and he is like a factor of
the story. But like I think, you know, I definitely

(40:48):
see it as like something where I think it's like,
for example, I was trying to think of like how
they would take the time to make it an explicit romance,
and like, I guess the thing that would have to
happen is like something like the kissing, But that really
seems unlikely to me because like not to say that
kissing doesn't happen in kids stories or whatever, especially with

(41:10):
like hetero stories, but like kissing is a lot more
um for me, a lot more adult, a lot more
sexualized in Japanese culture, especially at this time. Um but
even today it's still the case. Um. So it's like
it would be very shocking to go that far. I
think there would have been issues if they had gone

(41:30):
that far. And I think that for the most part,
with Miyazuki films, they never actually go through, like fully
going in a romantic route, even if they kind of
have a lot of like implied romance and a lot
of subtext um which is you know, nice for the
reason like you said, like you can opt in or
out of whether or not you read it as romantic,

(41:51):
which I think. I think it's more clear in a
story like um like Ponio, which comes out later, and
that's like taking the Little Mermaid story but making the
characters five. It's very interesting. Um So it's like you
really can't have like a romance with five year olds
that last forever exactly, but they they so they changing around.

(42:11):
But um yeah, I think with this story, like I
do like that, and I do think that it's it
is a thing where a lot of kids, especially young
girls who you know might be interested in voice, would
uh like appreciate that particular aspect. And yeah, I think
I definitely am. I don't I know hashtag phrases. Most

(42:35):
of the most of the kids I know who like
grew up with this movie also read it as romantic,
if that makes sense. And when you contextualize it to
where Miyazaki was turning for inspiration and like, what were
girls you know who were his target audience actually reading
and you know, pulling from magical girl tropes in a

(42:57):
way that felt like it's still fit in with who
he was as a filmmaker. It's like, I don't know,
I wasn't for the reasons you were describing. I mean,
I wasn't really bothered by it, because you can read
it that way or not. It's true to the like
subculture for young girls that he's pulling from, and the
story doesn't fall apart if you don't view it romantically.

(43:20):
The story remains basically the same. And I also, I mean,
we don't try to get in the habit of handing
it to men too much, but Miyazaki. I will make
an exception because just of how I feel like it's
very rare to see uh male o'tour who we talked
about on this show all the damn time, and it

(43:42):
fits very cleanly into that description. But someone who has
committed to centering women in his work very often, And
also I mean what you were describing, it sounds like
over time he was more committed to it, which I
feel like often with male tours, you see like I'll
have one female protagonist, so people will leave me alone.

(44:06):
It might there might be some holes in the story
and it might not be good, but I did it.
Uh here's my gone girl or whatever you know, and
she's gone, but she's not in the movie anyways. But
I appreciate that, Like Miyazaki, like you're saying, Caitlin like
centered girls in his work very frequently, but also was like,

(44:29):
but I can take it further, and I can, you know,
show this like spiritual growth and like reconciling capitalism and
the sins of her parents generation. I also loved this
movie hates boomers. It's like it's fun, Like this movie
like has in a way that doesn't really single out

(44:50):
um to heroes. Parents specifically, but it's clear that like
you know, I mean, and then the more that I
was reading and researching, and I'm curious to talk about
this as well of just how the parent characters and
the pigs of capitalism and all that was like reflecting
on Japan's fairly recent history as well, and I just

(45:14):
I don't know, I really enjoyed learning about Miyazaki's personal
politics through researching this. And we'll continue to talking about
this as we continue talking about these movies. But his
movie is pretty consistently center girls and women. Uh, they
tend to be very anti war. He won an Oscar
for this movie and didn't show up to the ceremony

(45:36):
because he was protesting the war in Iraq and America's
brutal invasion, and like he just really appears to be
a real one in many regards. Yeah, yeah, And like
we've been discussing, he has, it seems invested interest in
exploring the like inner lives of girls and making movie

(46:00):
that I mean, children of all genders can appreciate, but
that like girls especially can see themselves reflected in, especially
because his movies are like applauded for their realism, which
might sound weird because a lot of them are so
heavy with fantasy. That was a weird way to say that,

(46:20):
But I think fantasy is really good. I like it's
like when you're heavy with greg when you're gregnant, but
you're heavy with fantasy. So um. But just like the
relatable issues that a lot of the girls in his
movies are dealing with, there are a lot of like

(46:40):
you know, coming of age stories they're dealing with, just
like different sources of anxiety in their life. And we
see how that kind of manifests in the super imaginative
stories that are told in the movies. And I think
that's just like such an interesting thing because so many

(47:01):
male at tours don't have that vested interest and they're
just like, let's make toxic masculinity the movie five times
in a row, or even just like a passing curiosity.
And another thing I mean that I appreciate it is
to Hero's story speaks to kids of all genders, and

(47:23):
it's it's I also appreciate that too, because I feel
like sometimes there's still this kind of convention right now
in this movie is twenty years old, but there's still
a convention of you know, taking that like every story
is about fathers and sons, and then then just being
like inverting it and being like, Okay, we're gonna put
a girl at the center of this story, so things

(47:43):
have to be a little different, and that it doesn't
like she's a relatable, motivated character who like messes up
sometimes succeeds other times in ways that make kind of
a stunning amount of sense in this like nonsense where
old that she's inhabiting. I really liked um when she

(48:05):
first meets Hako and she's told, you know, she's being
told by everyone, don't trust this person. Don't trust this person.
Don't trust this person, and it was like even unclear
to me, as if you were. I'm like, who can
she trust? And like watching her navigate that and sometimes
take one step in the wrong direction and take a
few like it just she's just like a very realistically

(48:25):
characterized kid, and I like that she's you know, rewarded
for not just taking gold, Like she's like there's a
dragon dying nearby. I can't I can't with your gold
right now, you know? Yeah, yeah, she has very clear
priorities and like, I mean, I do think I was

(48:47):
thinking about like how like in terms of how she
moves throughout the story, what amount of it is her
doing stuff on her own. And like, you know, at
the very beginning, you know, Hawku is very clear about
telling her what to do. But once she gets to Camagi,
you know with that whole thing, um, you know, it's
up to her to actually convince him. And she doesn't
convince him to get a job there, but um, she

(49:08):
is able to you know, have an effect to like
at least enough of an effect that he like pushes
her in the right direction, right, um, because it could
ev all like stopped there if you know he said
no and she's like, well, okay, I'm screwed. But yeah,
just he's able to keep going and everything. So and
her her actions there and throughout the movie, but like

(49:30):
again just kind of from that starting point in the
boiler room, like her choice is there affect the trajectory
of the story because then she like picks up a
piece of coal and then like throws it in the fire,
and I guess that shows like, oh she is maybe capable.
And then actually something I found really fascinating about this movie,

(49:52):
And I think it's so it's like so cool that
this is clearly or at least the way I interpreted it,
that the experiences that she goes through in this story
are like manifest stations of her anxiety of like moving
to a new place and like worrying if people will
accept her, and like having to reorient everything about her

(50:13):
life because she has left all of her friends behind
and everything that was familiar to her and she has
to like navigate this extremely unfamiliar situation, and like that's
so much of what happens externally in the movie. So
I thought that was like just a really cool way
to like show a character's anxieties manifested in like a visual,

(50:37):
physical way. Um. But part of that is her meeting
all these people and like having to just kind of
get a sense of them, and a lot of the
first impressions that we as the audience get and that
she gets turned out to be wrong, because, like, for example,
Comagi seems way scarier and meaner than he actually is,

(51:00):
and a lot of that is like kind of the
visual thing where it's like he has these long spider
like arms, there are six of them, and he starts
out being really annoyed by her, but then by the
end of that scene he's like she's my granddaughter. And
then like, Lynn also seems like just very annoyed by Jahiro,

(51:22):
and it seems like she's going to be that way
for the entire movie. And I the first time I
watched this, I was like, oh, no, is this going
to be like a needlessly antagonistic relationship between two female characters.
But it's not, because as soon as Jahiro kind of
expresses some vulnerability and she's like, I don't feel well
and she's very clearly overwhelmed by everything that's happening, Lynn

(51:46):
is like, oh my god, are you okay? Like, and
then she like kind of takes on this caregiver role,
or at the very least she becomes her like ally
and mentor. It feels very like big history or that.
Guess maybe that was like my eat of it as
a kid, and Lynn's character arc is so interesting to me.

(52:06):
I feel like revisiting Lynn's character as like a young
adult under Capitalism, you really feel for Lynn in a
way that I certainly. I mean, as a kid, you're
a percent You're like, I am che hero and that
is my dragon boyfriend and like, but but you know,

(52:30):
at this stage of my life, I feel like the
closest analog for for most of us is Lynn, who
is working in a service role in this big capitalistic entity.
She is well liked but not well treated, and and
you don't get a ton of information about her backstory,
but what you do is so like, so I don't know,

(52:53):
just like the the economy of storytelling is so good
because there really one insight you it into who she
is and what she wants. Is like she watches the
train pass every day and wonders like, when is it
going to be my day to to get on that train?
And by that she means not working this dead end

(53:13):
job that I don't like and where I'm not treated
well and where you know, it becomes her responsibility in
a way that you know, is it fair? Is it not?
It's not fair, but I think it's the right thing
to do that she she takes on to Hero and
almost sees like it seems like a younger version of
herself of like, well, I hope that this kid can

(53:35):
get on the train, and then she does and it's nice. Yeah,
what's interesting is um, I think it's really unclear And
I think also the voice actress choice in English doesn't
really help with this but according to like the original story,
there's like a I mean, this is one of those things.
There's like so many story notes about this movie. Lynda
is supposed to be fourteen in the original like iteration, yeah,

(53:59):
I guess that. Yeah, she's giving me a hard thirty two, right.
I know she sounds she's out like an adult in
English for sure, and I feel like I definitely got
that when I was watching it in English before. But
like you know what, in preparation for this podcast, I
think the first thing I did was I watched the
full thing in Japanese without like taking any notes or anything,

(54:20):
and so I feel like there are a few characters
that have pretty distinct differences, but hers is definitely the
biggest one. So like I think in Japanese, she definitely
sounds more like an older sister, but like she's also
like a like the way she carries herself. She uses
like very like hyper masculine language in a way that
like she's like trying to I guess, make up for
the fact that like she is a teenage girl. Um,

(54:44):
I think it's really interesting. But yeah, I definitely see
her as being a very much like a big sister
to Chito. For that reason. Yeah, I liked their relationships
so much, and that there was like even moments towards
the end of the movie where there's even like these
passing moments in this movie where the characters are misjudging
each other or like not giving Like there's that moment

(55:06):
that I was like, I think it's Camagi that says
to Lynn in a way that I thought it was
a little bit harsh that you know. Lynn was like, oh,
what broke the spell on Hakku? And Camagi is like,
love something you've never felt in your life? And I
was like, WHOA, holyh it. And I was like, I

(55:28):
thought you guys were like kind of friends. And he's
saying that in kind of the same breath where he's like, yeah,
I've had I know that it's your one dream in
your life to have a train ticket. I've had one
for thirty years. Anyways, you've never felt love in your life.
I was like, wow, brutal. I didn't think that was
very nice to win. And then I was worried that.
I mean, I guess that that was it's just like

(55:51):
again speaking to like how how good this is? Where
I feel like, especially in kids movies, sometimes I am
conditioned to think that if there is a kind of
dialogue spoken by a character that I'm not supposed to hate,
I interpret their dialogue as the moral compass of the movie,
because that's how a lot of children's movies are written,

(56:11):
where you're like, well, I don't know if if fucking
Lumier says it, it's probably how bad could it be?
But again, there's like shades of grain and everyone in
this movie where like, we we like Camagi as a
character very much at this point, and then he kind
of like cuts Lynn down in this very I thought,
kind of I don't know why I was, so I

(56:32):
was like I was scandalized by it, and I was
worried that. I was like, oh, are we not supposed
to like Linn anymore? Because I still like her? And
then in the next scene, Lynn is being her big
sister self again and she apologizes to Chihiro for calling
her a dope, which is like, I don't know what

(56:53):
the translation, but I just was like, what a worried
to apologize for. Later she's like, sorry, I I said
that when we first met, like you're great and you're
blah blah blah, and so that weird offhanded thing from
Camogi isn't how the movie felt, That's just how Camaji
felt in that moment. For some reason, I'm like, where's

(57:14):
Kamoji apologized to Lynn? That wasn't very nice? Yeah, I
noticed a lot um because they had the chance to
to watch it in both languages. I noticed that there
are some some things where the line read in English
is like more sarcastic or more rude in some cases
than in Japanese, where it's like more straightforward or more

(57:37):
maybe not necessarily like polite. Now I don't remember the
line read for like that exact thing, but like one
thing I remember for sure is um. You know, in
like near the beginning, Um, when when is going to
Chehito to ask her to like eat the little berry
from the spirit worlds that she wouldn't disappear. In English,
he's like, don't worry, you won't turn to a pig,
like you know, making a joke, but like in jack Nis,

(58:00):
he's completely serious about that line. So it's really interesting,
Like there are there are definitely some interesting things where
like there are kind of added things due to the localization,
which isn't bad. I think, you know, it's a very
very good localization and I think again that it's part
of why it's so successful. Um yeah, that's fascinating. I

(58:25):
hate to give Disney a lot of credit, but yeah, right,
especially because like John Lasseter had so much involvement in
this and you like never pleasant to see him. Yeah,
because like because of him, um he like they took
on doing all the other Ghibli movies from before and so,

(58:45):
um it's kind of interesting to like look back at
old like older Ghibli movies that have now been dubbed
by Disney um and see like more familiar. There are a
a lot of Disney names and so on. But um,
I mean I think it's good because they're very good
at local ie thing and they took they did a
lot of things to like kind of fill in um

(59:05):
like cultural things that might not be as clear to
an English speaking audience. Um, Like there are there are
lines that are completely different because like they're trying to
like explain something because you know, you can't expect everyone
to know what like the Radish spirit is or something
like that. But um oh, the other one that I
remember was you know when so because like Hito gives

(59:27):
the first half of that little uh the little ball
to um hakku and that's when he vomits out the
seal and the slug. Yeah, and she has to step
on it, and they like explain the whole thing with
like putting her forefinger and thumb together, and they don't
explain that in Japanese. Um, they just do it. But
because Kamachi's off screen and they're able to like add

(59:48):
that line in and stuff. So it was like very
very clever, yeah and helpful. Yeah that I mean, I
wish I wish I knew more about that process without
having to watch twenty minutes of John Last that are talking,
because it is so fascinating. Like, yeah, I think, I mean,

(01:00:09):
I have the Blue Ray in uh in English because
wow brag, Yeah, but so you can watch it. I
think the North American Blue Ray has both the English
and French dub as well as the original Japanese and
even the French localization is different. It's really interesting. Yeah,
I mean, and in the Disney dub, I mean you

(01:00:30):
we I guess mentioned this right away where I was
like hercules, but they they really I mean, and usually
when I say usually when anyone says Disney, it's pejorative,
but in this one it was kind of it was
like funny to me, just like how specifically this era
Disney the dub cast is where literally the voice of

(01:00:53):
Lilo is the voice of Hiro, the voice of Max
goof of a goofy movie is Haku. Like, it's so Disney,
what about an extremely goofy movie though, Yeah, same guys work.
The guy who did Cogsworth and Beauty and the Beast

(01:01:15):
is Comagi. I mean, the list goes on. It's it's
a whole lot of a whole lot of um. Anyways,
let's take a quick break and come back for more discussion,

(01:01:37):
and we're back. I said a few more thoughts on
to Hero's character before we kind of move into the
next area. Yeah, I mean one thing that struck me,
I mean is and this is again such a small thing,
but I like that she is consistently positioned as even

(01:01:58):
when she is confused and doesn't know what to do,
she's always positioned as a strong, resilient character. Like her
not knowing what's going on or not having the skill
that she needs yet is never posed as like a
reason to judge her in a way that sometimes they
think we're like conditioned to see female characters, especially young

(01:02:21):
female characters as like helpless and damseled and unable to
get out of their predicament on their own. A lot
of that is to to Disney movies that you know,
we're working on the same movie or or the like.
The I guess converse of that is that the right word?
Why did my brain shut off? Anyway? The inverse? I

(01:02:42):
was like, it's not converse. That can't be right the shoe.
The inverse of that is the precocious you know, ten
or twelve year old girl that we see all the time,
where they somehow are geniuses with PhD s and they
know everything about all adult things. None of that is
is present in two Hero. And on top of that,

(01:03:05):
like she is not, I mean she is. She openly
cries at several times in the story in a way
that again it is like she's allowed to have these
moments of strength and decisiveness. She's allowed to have moments
where she has no idea what the fun is going on,
because like you, as the viewer, I have no idea
what the funk is going on? And you have moments

(01:03:25):
where she like very understandably in the way that any character,
but particularly a ten year old who has just lost
her parents to becoming a pig, which also I was like,
I wonder how Miyazaki was into animal Farm and the
answer is very he was very into animal Farm and
it shows. But but that she's allowed these moments of

(01:03:48):
intense emotional vulnerability in a way that doesn't take like
it only elevates her character, because I feel like that
it just like reminds you, as an adult viewer now
like this is a child, and and like, of course
she's going to cry when confronted, but yet another stranger
who she doesn't know if she can trust or not.

(01:04:09):
And I liked that she's very much a hero and
an aspirational character for kids watching, but in a way
that again for the for the genre, and like the
situation she's in, it feels really realistic of like how
a kid would react in that situation. Yeah, can we
talk about the first time she cried, because that's like
a really I think a big I think one of

(01:04:32):
the visually one of the more iconic parts of the
whole movie. But yeah, because like for the first part
of her being in the bathhouse, she's like kind of
just holding everything in, um, you know, doing what she
has to do, and like not really complaining about it
or anything, just like being really headstrong because she has
to be. But then it's like we see that, you know,

(01:04:53):
she's having trouble sleeping, and then how coo, Like while
she's a while she's in the room with all the
other women, he kind of like sneaks and is like, oh,
meet me by you know this by the bridge, and
she goes, and like they do the whole thing with
the parents, and he gives her clothes back because she
needs them to go back to the human world, and
she and also the cards and she can remember her name,

(01:05:14):
and then he gives her the rice balls um which
he says I don't know if they're actually is a
spell on them or if he just saying that, but
he says like, oh, this will give you your strength back.
And I think it's basically the same in Japanese. And
that's the first time she cries, and she cries so big,
like her eyes well up in her like it's just
like her entire eye just like turns into a puddle.

(01:05:36):
It's it's definitely an iconic like visual to say the least.
But I think it's really interesting that like it's when
she's you know, finally given that chance to be vulnerable
and like let it all out that like you can
really see that she is has been holding in those
tears the whole time. Yeah, and that's what's so great
all this movie. And again I haven't watched all of

(01:05:58):
Miyazaki's work, but of the ones that I have seen
and can speak to his treatment of these characters in
showing them being active and making choices but making mistakes,
and being vulnerable but having the strength to go on

(01:06:21):
and do what you need to do and just like
all of these like aspirational and empowering qualities that like
young girls can see and admire. That to me is
the most like one of the most effective versions of
feminism in movies, more so than for example, my favorite

(01:06:42):
example to make fun of is like when in whatever
Avengers movie when all of the like seven female superheroes
like start walking beside each other and they're like, and
now it's our turn, and we're gonna have this one
moment for twenty seconds in the movie where we're awesome
to protect Spider Man, right, Like It's so it's like,

(01:07:06):
truly just treat women like people, like that's all you
just described as treating a people character like a person,
like the's a complicated person, which, like when I was
reading a few different accounts of like people being like
it's so cool that your movies are so feminist Muzaki,

(01:07:26):
and he was like, I don't know about that. I
just want to entertain people and write interesting characters. So yeah,
like that's all it takes. Yeah, yeah, definitely, Like obviously,
I'm really happy that this movie does feature a ten
year old girl, but you wouldn't have to change anything
about the movie if it was about a ten year

(01:07:47):
old boy or a ten year old on my dairy child,
So like it's yeah, it's it's pretty great, right, Yeah,
I love I love to hear so much. Um Also,
she saves a boy, she doesn't have to be well
I guess. I mean you can make an argument that
like he at the beginning like saves her a little
bit and like gets her away from immediate danger, but

(01:08:08):
it feels like an exchange of movie I'm cutting it
too much, like but like it feels like a friendship exchange.
And then because she saves him by going on a
long journey with her new friends on a train and
apologizing and all that and you know, feeding him a ball. Yeah,

(01:08:31):
should we should we talk about capitalism? Let's do it
feel like it was going to come up hit it? Yeah?
So I again, I don't know. I learned a lot
about the end of the twentieth century economy in Japan
via learning about this movie. I'm sure we all did

(01:08:53):
you you probably do more than we did already. Um,
this movie is really interest I mean the way that
it gets a really solid criticism of capitalism that it
can work for anyone, but also works very specifically for
Japan at the time this movie came out and works
again like both ways is so incredible to me. Where

(01:09:15):
it's like, I guess speaking to it in the broad sense,
the bath house is this capitalist entity. You know, you
have your your character at your at the top your
you Boba's of the world. Um, she's dressed in a
more i think traditionally like Western way. She doesn't interact
with the working class like her whole I mean, and

(01:09:38):
it's like to the point where it's like she's known
for taking your name, stripping you of your identity, overworking you,
and being very, very unfeeling toward anyone who isn't her
own plight. She's only responsive to people once she finds
out that they have money, and even then, I mean,

(01:09:58):
I think I think it's a just another like shade
of gray that comes up in this movie. Is like
she's very like Mr Crabs motivated I would say, by
by money. When she finds out that No Face has
a ton of money. At first she's thrilled until No
Face becomes too unruly and two other and then she's like, Okay,

(01:10:21):
you're actually a monster and you're you're bad. You have
to get the funk out. And she did essentially one
of the different version of the same thing to the
Stink Monster when he came in, where it's like, Okay,
I'll take your money, but I'm not going to respect
you or consider your plight, and just like and and
then you know, putting hiro in in in kind of

(01:10:43):
contrast to that, where to Hero, like she doesn't want
to financially profit from being trapped here. She just wants
her family and she wants her basic needs met and
she wants her friends to be okay, you know, but
she's like put into child lay, I mean, and then
on the other end, you there's just so many different,

(01:11:04):
like different ways and then with Lynn you have another
perspective of like someone who clearly resents the capitalist system
but feels stuck there and feels unable to get out,
and she's very much a cog in a wheel. And
then this I'm not quite as sure of. UM, So
if anyone knows more, please jump in. But I based

(01:11:25):
on the research I was doing and like reading interviews
that were happening at the time of the release of
this movie, UM, I thought it was like I learned
at least a little from what she heroes parents are
supposed to resent represent in terms of like the specific
moment they appear in where um. And again I didn't
know this. I mean it was like pretty true in

(01:11:47):
the U s as well, But like that in the eighties,
you know, there's a huge capitalist fucking boom across extremely
industrialized nations. And it sounds like a lot of what
Zaki was trying to say with the parent characters in
you know, them disrespecting the spiritual grounds that they arrived on, consuming, consuming, consuming,

(01:12:10):
without any care for whose work they were consuming, who
was making it, whether we're gonna pay or not. They
were just sort of like, who cares, it's here, let's
go let's go nuts, and that as a criticism of
that generation of middle class, upper middle class and above
in Japan, I that is just I mean, I definitely

(01:12:33):
didn't know that when I was ten. Now, another thing
I thought was cool about to Hero's characters specifically was again,
and it's her who figures out that the stink spirit
is not actually a stink spirit. It's you know, there's
something else going on. There was like something wedged in

(01:12:55):
that spirit's body, and it turns out to be a
bunch of liketion base sickly right, so we also have
some like cool environmental themes happening. But um, she figures
it out to Hero saves the day with that river spirit,
and the river spirit leaves behind all of this gold,
and you Baba is like, oh my gosh, Chihiro, actually

(01:13:17):
you're awesome now, thank you so much. And it's not
until that happens that you Baba respects Chihiro in any way.
And for maybe a different person they'd be like, oh, well,
if I can make my boss more money, then I'll
get more respect, So then I should make it a
point to try to make my boss more money. Uh.

(01:13:38):
But instead she heroes like every time gold is offered
to her, She's like, I don't want your fucking gold.
I'm trying to help out my dragon boys always like
dragon fleeting nearby. So I thought that was cool and uh,
leftist icon Chihiro. Yeah, I think what's really interesting, Um,
and this is kind of again, like I get really

(01:14:00):
present in a lot of Japanese media for girls, is
that like the fact that she doesn't really care about money,
it also does feel like a part of her upbringing
and her privilege that she's never had to worry about money. Yeah,
especially the way that like her father talks about you
know how it's okay they're going to eat all this
food because he has credit cards in cash, you know,

(01:14:21):
like no problem. Um. But like, and that definitely does
sound like something apparent at the time might say, but
I do think that, Um it's it's kind of I
guess I have mixed feelings about her not caring about money, because, um,
it definitely is you know a thing where like when
she refuses to take old from from No Face in

(01:14:41):
that one scene, which because she's trying to go help Haku. Um,
the one guy was like, Oh, don't worry about her,
She's just a human. She doesn't know any better. And
it does feel like human is a kind of placeholder
for child in that way where it's like children don't
know about money, like they don't know any better. Yeah, yeah,
it is complicated, which is like, but that's why I'm

(01:15:02):
glad that Lynn is there to like present a sympathetic
character that we're rooting for who is stuck in it.
And and unfortunately, I feel like we're led to believe
that she kind of remains stuck in it. We kind
of leave her there. It's not like she got on
the train unfortunately, which again is like, I don't know.
I mean, that's an interesting bittersweet. I hope Camogi had

(01:15:24):
another ticket. I don't know. I can't believe he told
her he had another ticket the whole time. That's so mean. Uh, Anyways,
team Lynn over here, because you would, you would. You're
led to believe I mean that you know, Lynn probably
did not grow up with very much if that's a
job that she is unable to leave, So you're totally righty,

(01:15:45):
I mean, where it you know hiro does? I mean
she benefits from the privilege of being a child and
not having but also she she benefits from being a
child who like worrying about money has we're sort of
it to believe is not a big issue for her
because her parents are driving out capitalists who turn into

(01:16:07):
yeah Orwellian uh, you know, Orwellian figures. So so there's yeah,
there's definitely I appreciate that there's at least foils to that.
And then especially and then that leads right into the
fact that like we're joking about it, but the fact
that you know, Jahiro is constantly like, I don't want
your money. There's a dragon bleeding in the other room.

(01:16:29):
The dragon bleeding in the other room is Haku, who
ends up being this, you know, big metaphor for the
environment because and again, just like another one offline that
revisiting it now you're like, oh my god, like where
you know they're they're literally falling out of the sky
having a very calm conversation, which I love um. And

(01:16:53):
and she's like, she's like you're the river and he's like,
I am the river. Damn it's true. That's exactly what
he says. And but then but then she's like, I
know that what that river is, it doesn't They filled
it in and its apartments now and he's like, oh,
that must be why I'm not a river anymore, and

(01:17:15):
like just that you know now you're like, oh, you
know exactly what Miyazaki is trying to do. And then
Haku is also utilized as a character as I think,
I mean, as as I guess I'm kind of yet
another in into capitalism commentary that's different from Lenz because

(01:17:36):
he is this environmental symbol who ends up in the
pocket of capitalism, which um like he is. You Baba's like,
uh uh you know he's her what, her assistant, her apprentice,
and it sounds like he's again I'm like, I don't
know that I feel bad when someone steals from you bomba.

(01:18:03):
People seems like redistribute except for the baby and uh,
you know, best of luck to the baby. Shout out
to the baby. The baby was supposed to represent, but
it was really big. I actually do think there's something
I have. I do have thoughts about um both the
baby um because so like I mean, you Baba is

(01:18:28):
for anyone who is listening for some reason and hasn't
watched the movie. You Baba is very differently designed from
all the other characters. She does have like western South dress,
you as a giant head, and that's part of why
she has a giant baby. But she's also like an
older woman and that of her giant head. Yeah, I
don't know where um um. But in any case, yeah,

(01:18:51):
like we we don't really know much about like why
she would be an older woman with this baby, but
this baby is huge but also mentally very much a baby.
And then we later learned that the baby can in
fact speak perfectly fine and speaks in full sentences. Um.
And it's like it's like very interesting because it's like
this is a baby that has been uh for as

(01:19:14):
long as we know, like the for its whole life,
has been trapped in this one room and you know,
he's like afraid of going outside. Um, which is like
kind of almost like the polar opposite to Jigito situation
to me, where like she's, yeah, she's exploring a whole
new world. She's facing all these challenges herself, and even
if she is afraid, she doesn't let that stop her

(01:19:34):
from moving forward. So um, I think it's really interesting.
And then and I wanted to say um because we
haven't talked about it yet, but I think the names
of the characters are very important and um in particular, Like,
so the big word that's used a lot in this
story is spirits, which would be coming in Japanese, but

(01:19:56):
when it comes to the mythology stuff is not really
one to one and coming can both spirits and then
full on gods. So like and in particular, Kohaku's name,
his real name is actually different in Japanese. So his
his name in Japanese is Niki Hayami Khaki and it's
meant to invoke like the name of a god or

(01:20:18):
so the idea is like he was a full on
god and then like cannot return home because of you know, environmentalism.
So she's got a dragon boyfriend slash river boyfriend slash
god boyfriend, yes, magical girl troups, yes, yes, very much.
So my boyfriend is god yea, yeah exactly. So it's uh,

(01:20:43):
it's pretty interesting. Um yeah, it's like it's not really
like clear, but like you could definitely make that like
distinction that like he is he was a god before
you know all this, And again he's a god that
looks twelve years old apparently, So yeah that's fast. I
had no idea. Yeah, um, but yeah, the names are

(01:21:03):
so interesting to me in general for the movie, if
it's okay to talk about it, please yes. So, Like,
even the name Tchihito itself, it's like this name was
at the time one of the most popular like names,
Like it's basically like the most not the most average
name for a ten year old, but pretty average for

(01:21:25):
ten year old at this time. UM actually went through
the data of like name rankings UM in Japanese and
found that like her name peaked at the number four spots.
It's not really as big now. I think for the
most part, people who name their kids to heto these
days are specifically naming it after this character. Yeah. Um,

(01:21:48):
but her name basically means like a thousand questions, so
like she's like like asking a thousand things. So the
cheat in her name once you take away the second part,
it does become send, So send means one thousand in Japanese,
so that's like very deliberate. And you know, the Japanese
title of this movie is Santotio Kai Kai so San

(01:22:08):
and two Heroes Spiriting Away. Yeah, and the other thing
I think that's really interesting about the way the movie
looks um like the kind of spirit restaurant area that
they go to before the bathhouse. Um, I believe it
is very inspired by a specific place in I want
to say, I can't remember it's Taiwan or China specifically,

(01:22:31):
but there is like an actual place and the food
that the parents eat is those are real things you
can eat, um, which is pretty cool. But um, I
do think it's interesting that they went outside of Japan
for those uh for this images, and like all the
signs and stuff are super weird. Um. I think my
favorite one is uh, I was looking at some like

(01:22:51):
there's a shot where you know she's first running through
and you start to see spirits and there's like lanterns
that say come here but backwards. Um, so it's like
super creepy. Yeah. Yeah. And then the bath house itself.
I think the first thing is the name of the
bath house is written backwards and um, you can be

(01:23:13):
um the you and like you baba. For example, it
means hot water, but for the bath house name, they
don't use you as in hot water. They use you
as an oil, which is really interesting. So you see
that the character for oil everywhere. Um, you Baba's name
basically just means like hot water lady or how hot

(01:23:34):
her grandmother? I don't know, it's like kind of is
not a really direct translation. And then her twin sister,
Zenniba Zennise comes from like a public bath, which is interesting,
so it's like two different Yeah, OK, because she's a
twin of the people. Yeah yeah, yeah for sure. Um yeah.
And then like names like like Kamaji just means pretty

(01:23:56):
literally boiler old man, like it's very yeah, but yeah,
those are like I guess for me, like this, like
the major names, there is a shot where you can
see all the names, um where like they're kind of
turning their their time cards. I guess they'll have their
names on them, and like you can see they're all
like super short names that were clearly like taken from

(01:24:18):
a longer name. I think that's really cool, um to say,
like you Bobba stole their original name and replaced it
with something like simpler. Yeah basically yeah, so it's it's
pretty cool. It's pretty interesting. So you can assume the
same thing happened to lenn as well. Um right right,
her name used to be Caitlin want I I do

(01:24:44):
wish we knew a little more about line, but it's
like we what we do learn, It's like enough for
the story to to work and work and work. But
it's just like, oh, I want to know. We got
to find out what how cou'se deal was, What is
Linn's deal. I didn't didn't know that this is going
to radicalize me in favor of working class icon Lynn.

(01:25:06):
But she's you know, she's got the union going in
there now I know it. I know it. Or maybe
she escaped in that little like circular pedal boat thing.
I have to say. Um. I wanted to talk about
the character design, specifically of you Baba and Zaniba, since

(01:25:28):
they are identical where they are the only two old
women in the story, and the character design and I
guess this is subjective, but it's not the most flattering
character wo hot take. I mean, maybe some people look

(01:25:49):
at you Baba and I was like, wow, what a
sexy bitch, but and they're right to do so. Well
maybe maybe where is Zoniba you Baba is, but right
like that, I think that any older I mean, there's
the only older women in the story, and they're pretty
aggressively othered and how they appear and how they look.

(01:26:09):
And I was worried that like this movie was leaning
into villainizing the only old female character we get to know,
especially because we only Zeneba doesn't show up until maybe
like halfway through the movie, or maybe even later than
that longer. Yeah, so for a long time, it's just

(01:26:32):
this one older female character, and she's the villain, and
she's designed to be pretty grotesque and scary and all
this stuff. So I was concerned about the handling of that.
And then you meet Zeneba, who is similarly scary and
aggressive at first, but then she's one of those characters

(01:26:53):
who seems one way at first, and then when we
see her again, like when to Hero pay her a
visit to give back the Golden Steel, suddenly she's this
sweet granny, literally granny making scrunch ees on a loom.
You're like, oh, yes, granny. And then I love how

(01:27:15):
she kind of takes in no face too nice. I was.
I I didn't quite know where to fall there, because
I did for the vast majority of the movie. Yeah,
the only older woman is mothered pretty aggressively in a
way that like, if you read it from a moralistic standpoint,
you're like, well, yeah, she's the you know, she is
the capitalist overlord of the story, but also she's the

(01:27:39):
only older woman in the story, and that seems maybe
a little unfair. And the other thing that I did
pick up on there, that is something we've talked about
with animated movies before. It's always like a little ping
annoyance for me because I work in animation and I'm
always like, can we not do this? And it always happens.

(01:28:00):
Um is, we have a lot of different like I
don't know, like the spirits come in all different forms,
they're all different animals, they're all different, you know, they're
they're drawn and characterize all very differently, but there's really
only any sort of like variety in male coded characters.
All the women basically look like some version of a

(01:28:22):
youngish woman who is a human. And that always bugs me.
And that's all like, no matter how progressive you find
an animation, it's always like, well, we don't wanna we
don't want to like have a fun mix of body
types and species in a movie where literally anything cannon

(01:28:43):
does happen. So that was like a little thing that
I always kind of get frustrated by, the most egregious
example that I think we've talked about, Caitlin. It's like
I always think of it as like ghostbuster syndrome where
all the you know, male coded ghosts are like, well,
I'm a pile of shit, and then like the woman
is like, I'm a human woman that's really horny, and

(01:29:05):
you're like a super sexy, horny ghost lady. And obviously
this is not you know, a sin of that caliber,
but I did, I did. I was like, man, most
of the women we meet, with the exception of the
other older woman villain, they all kind of look like
generally attractive, youngish human women. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I

(01:29:28):
mean we haven't really talked about like it's kind of
hard to talk about diversity in this movie, which is
EMBOSSI about a bunch of spirits, so not like a
lot of human characters or anything. But you know, like
the only time, like the only character who is has
any sort of other body shape is you know, you
bab A Zuniba, who again are drawn identically. And then

(01:29:51):
so there's like the really silly thing was like, how
can you not tell me, apart from your own mother,
to pull the baby? And it's like, because you guys
are drawn sati the same um And she's also the
only like Zaniba who is supposed to be the nice
old lady is the only character that like actually says
something fat phobic to Bow like he she comments on
him being really fat, like you know, a chubby baby.

(01:30:14):
And I mean he's he's a giant baby, but he's
still very baby shaped. I don't know, right, Yeah, he's
not like a grotesque or anything like, it's not it's
not he's not like drawn an exaggerated way like to
look like a very particularly scary baby. He's just like
a very big, fat baby. But like most babies are fat, right,

(01:30:35):
And like, do you guys know what movie we're watching?
Like yeah, exactly, Um, but yeah, like it's you know,
there isn't really a lot of like I would it
would be really cool to have more diversity of like
especially with the female spirits, like how they look. It's
like basically there are two types of female spirits. There's

(01:30:57):
the ones with like proportioned heads that are similar to
humans like Lynn, and then there's the ones that have
like very large heads. And that's it. Like that's a
that's a variety and female characters in this movie. Yeah,
but the O there's no other particular like and again,
we only have like basically one human family that we're
looking at. So there isn't a lot of guests room

(01:31:20):
for diversity, but it would have been nice if there
was a little bit more. Yeah, yeah, I mean, speaking
to Jahiro's parents, what we do know of them, I
do at least appreciate that it's like they're both damseled
by the story, Like it's not one you do get
that thing that I think we bumb up in movies
a lot, where it's like the dad is more gregarious

(01:31:42):
and likable and like seems to be less of the disciplinary.
And then Jahiro's mom. Um, It wasn't a huge issue
for me because they're barely in the movie, but I
don't know. Yeah, yeah, he's I guess he's he's kind
of like the fun dad. But also her mom goes
right along. She's it's if anyone's like the come on,

(01:32:04):
don't you guys stop it, it's Jahiro. Shahiro is the
one that's like, we're capitalism and too close to the sun. Yeah,
because her mom's like, yeah, I'll fucking I'll eat all
this food, I'll go down this tunnel. I don't give
a ship. Yeah, you know, their names don't come up
in the actual text, but they do have names. And

(01:32:25):
I think it's really funny because her father's name is Akio,
which the kanji for which is a bright husband and
um and then her mother's name is um Uko, which
is like the kanji is basically like like what's it called,
like a calm child, and the child part being like
that's a that's a factor of you know, Japanese girl's

(01:32:47):
names more especially at the time and older generations. In
recent years has like kind of fallen out of favor.
But child was a very common character to use in
girls names compared to adults being used and boys names
or whatever. But um, yeah, but like the idea, like
she's like that their names really match their personalities and

(01:33:07):
their generation. But yeah, it's like they're they're very much
like chosen like kind of stock characters. That makes sense.
That yeah, that does That's interesting. Um. Does anyone have
any final thoughts about the movie? My last thing was just, um,
no face. Uh. We've talked about no Face a bunch

(01:33:30):
where at different times they appear as this capitalism metaphor
and then other times I liked the I mean, Shahiro
has this I guess like childlike in a good way,
but also just like this kind of superhuman ability of
like forgiveness and a willingness for like almost I think

(01:33:52):
you can make an argument for like Jahiro believes in
restorative justice, um with at least with No with with
No Face, and also with the Stink Monster, where she's
you know, the central character who does not judge people
based on how they look or um. I think like
through the story learns to you know, at least challenge

(01:34:14):
her first impressions of people or what she's told to
think about the people in spirits and creatures that she meets.
And I was touched by her relationship with No Face,
which in my memory I think it's just because like
that iconic image of them together, I remember the movie
as them being together way more than they actually are.
Not true, They're actually not together very much. Um, but

(01:34:38):
just that you know, No No Phase does some shit,
like No Face is really committing some crimes in there
and eating some poor people, which which I also would
not have been upset if Hiro was like No Face
it's been real, um, but you need to go to

(01:34:58):
therapy and work on yourself, not my I'm not going
to take on this emotional labor at this time. No
Face which also would have been totally fair and I
would have been completely happy with that. But I just
thought it was an interesting creative choice, which maybe, again,
like Puts, we've mentioned this like, uh, you know, Chihiro
is taking on a lot of people shit uh in

(01:35:20):
this story in a way that you know, maybe it
certainly isn't fair to her, um, but she does it willingly.
It seems like an out of her own nature. And
I appreciated how, you know, once it felt like No
Face demonstrated a desire to not behave the way that
they were behaving, and they you know, freed the people

(01:35:44):
that they ate from themselves, and then Chahiro was like, Okay,
let me get you out of this horrible like out
of this like toxic environment and take you to Granny
and see how you do. I just thought that was
an interesting I guess, I don't know what like more oralistic.
They could go either way, but um, I thought it
was an interesting choice. Yeah, I feel similarly conflicted. Yeah,

(01:36:06):
she does blame the bath house specifically for causing No
Face to be this way, which is interesting and also
probably another iconic shot of this movie is like, well,
because like you know, he is violently vomiting all over
the bath house um and chasing what did you do
to me? And luck in in doing so. There's a

(01:36:28):
part where you Babba tries to fight him off and
gets also covered in um no face vomit, and that
is that's nice. I like that. I like that part.
I was a big fan of that as well. He
loved it. Yeah, any anything else that folks want to cover,
I think that's it for me. Yeah? Same Here does

(01:36:50):
Spirited Away pass? The back to test yes yeah to
Hero and you Baba to Hero and in to hero
in Zeneba. My favorite pass was can't you even manage
a yes ma'am? Or thank you? Yes ma'am? What a
dope hurry up like pass that passes? Like in the

(01:37:13):
first scene, because like the first the whole first scene
is you know, Chito's mother talking to Chito as they're driving. Yeah, true, yeah,
so like right away wow. Uh Now on to the
main event. The nipple scale nipple scale zero to five nipples.

(01:37:33):
Based on looking at the movie through an intersectional feminist lens,
I will give Spirited Away. I'm like somewhere around a
four or four and a half. I think there are
some issues with some of the character designs with the
female characters or female coded characters specifically, But other than that,

(01:37:58):
I can't really come plain about much else because I
and you know me, I love to complain, so we've
made a career of it truly. So yeah, I mean,
just between the protagonist of this movie being a relatable

(01:38:20):
and active female character who is someone that can be
admired by the target demo of specifically ten year old
girls according to Miyazaki, um, but also people of all
age ranges, people of all genders. It's just such a

(01:38:41):
cool character, such an interesting story just watching like the
choices she makes and the friendships she develops, and um,
I don't know, it's just like it's all really it
just seems like effortletlessly feminist. Again, not to hand it
to an autour man, but it's just like, I don't know,

(01:39:02):
it's it's great. Um, I'll give it four and a
half nipples. One will go to to Hero, one goes
to Lynn, one goes to Zeneba. I'll give one to
No Face, especially no Face pre and post bath house.
No Faces behavior in the bath house again seduced by capitalism,

(01:39:26):
but No Face overcomes that and um gets a job
as Zeneba's knitting slash weaving apprentice, so that's fun. Uh,
and then my half nipple will go to non binary
icon the footballs I'll go forward a half as well.

(01:39:46):
I really love this movie. I think that it's doing
so much that movies in general are not doing effectively
much less movies that are accessible to everyone. I I
of Jehudo. I love the environmental message, the capitalism message
for the most part works for me. There's little moments

(01:40:07):
where you're like, but for the most part, I think
it's really well done and clearly just based on what
I now know of Miyazaki's politics and track record, all
come from a very good place. Yeah, I love you know,
kind of his cinematic mission and tendency to center female

(01:40:28):
characters and the fact that, like you were saying earlier,
and I mean like there, they wouldn't have made a difference.
There could have been a kid of any gender in
this character and it would have been just as impactful
and wonderful. Some of the animation choices. I mean, it's
a gorgeously animated movie. Uh, that's not the issue. It's
just yeah, the the a few a few tropes with

(01:40:50):
how women are animated in large animation projects, were still
present here in a way that I was hoping it
wouldn't be. But it's a little thing in a movie,
this doing so much right and holds up so well.
I would show this to a kids that wouldn't be
awake crying their eyes out over some of the more

(01:41:11):
horrific images in it anytime. Um So I'll go four
and a half nipples. I'm going to give two to Hiro,
I'm going to give to to the baby, and I'm
gonna give the last half Oh wait, sorry, taking him
from the baby, giving them to Lynn. Baby gets half

(01:41:33):
a nipple done perfect. Um yeah, I think I kind
of almost want to met you guys, but I think
I'm gonna go with four nipples on this one. Um So,
you know, the reasons that you mentioned are really good.
One thing we didn't talk about that I forgot we
probably should have mentioned is like in terms of every episode,
where like oops, there was a whole huge thing we

(01:41:54):
forgot to say in terms of like the production, Um,
I couldn't find any women in the major roles of
this movie. Um so that's yeah, that that takes away
a half nipple for me, and then the other half
is yet the representation and stuff. I think overall, it's
just a really great movie. Again, you know, it was
the top movie in Japan for almost twenty years for

(01:42:16):
good reason. Like, you know, you can still show this today.
There's a you know, the stage show going on in Tokyo,
like right now, this show, this story is still very accessible.
Uh now, So it's just really like it's yeah, just
a great story. And the fact that it's able to
translate so easily to everyone around the world is uh, yeah,

(01:42:37):
it's great. And it's also the reason why we got
more ghibli localizations. Uh moving forward. So as far as
who gets the nipples goodness, I should have everything, yes, um,
I think definitely one to you know, and one to Lynn.

(01:42:57):
You know. I'll give one to Sniva just because, like
you know, she her the problems to their character and
both see, just because of how she's drawn and that's
you know, not her fault. Um, And I'll give one
to the little Bird, not not the big bird, but
the little bird. It's an icon as well. Yes, I

(01:43:18):
love that. Thank you so much. Yes, thank you for
having me. It's been an honor and a privilege. Oh
my goodness, come back any time. Yes, I would love to.
Where can people follow you on social media? Tell us
about your podcast, tell us about anything you'd like to
tell us about. Yeah, so I guess you know the

(01:43:42):
first thing. If you like what I had to say today, Um,
you can find me on Twitter and Instagram at I
You she Knows. So that's a y U S A
g kN o w S. And if you're a fan
of the magical girl genre, I talk about it every
week with fans and sometimes creators on Sparkle side chats
with magical Girl Are You? And you can find those

(01:44:03):
on Twitter and Instagram at Magical Girl Are You? Um,
let's see. Also, I made my voice acting debut this
earlier this year, and that's on the s I've thank you.
I'm on the sci fi Western anthology podcast Breathing Space
Fading Frontier. Um, I'm in one episode of season two,

(01:44:25):
but it was a lot of fun and if you
are interested in that genre, you should just listen to
the whole podcast. But yeah, it's pretty awesome and thank you.
And then, um, finally, my most recent thing that I like,
My most recent translation project was this anthology of Sapphic

(01:44:45):
comics featuring butch and butch relationships that are created by
queer and trans Japanese artists. It's called Boyish Boyish and
spelled like Boyish squared. But yeah, you can find that
if you search for Boyish to book on the socials.
Should be able to find that everywhere. And you know
they're working on like they want to be able to
make another like another edition, like a part two of

(01:45:08):
that that anthology. So you know, if the more people
you can buy digital copy or physical copy, I think so,
you know, it's a it's a really great, beautiful bunch
of stories. Um. Yeah, it was so fun to work on.
It's like a dream project. So that's awesome. Yeah, hell yeah,
I will will link that in the description as well.

(01:45:28):
We'll be linking everything. UM. Thank you so much for
joining us acad and and um for kicking off the
Miyazaki unit Miyazaki months. I keep hesitating the same month
because I fear that we yeah, we'll not get it
all done at once, but we will get it all
done eventually. Yes. And you can follow us on Twitter

(01:45:53):
and Instagram at bectel Cast. You can subscribe to our
Matreon that's at patreon dot com. Slash Petel Cast. It
gets you Tube bonus episodes every month, plus access to
the entire back catalog of bonus episodes, and you can
always get merged over at t public dot com slash

(01:46:13):
the Bectel Cast. With that, we we can't look back.
It's hard to say did the podcast happen? We'll never know.
Wait a minute, Wait a minute. I have this shiny
hair tie. I'm wearing a jersey that's a Shaquille O'Neal.
What does it mean? It all happens, It happens. Okay,

(01:46:38):
bye bye bye

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