The Notebook with Caitlin Gill

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the bed cast, the questions asked if movies have
women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,
or do they have individualism? The patriarchy, Zef and Vast
start changing it with the beck Del cast. Welcome, thank
you for drumming. Hi Jamie, hiy. So let's start by

(00:23):
saying again, thank you for coming to the live show.
We're talking about the notebook. You have been given Bechtel
cast bingo board cards, but we can't say boards, bingo boards,
bingo boards. I keep bingo board. I had this whole
plan where I was gonna keep saying bingo board moment.
Oh just in now, but also in the future. I

(00:45):
was like, I think we're gonna have all these bingo
board moments when we're like together, we for sure will, right. Okay,
So you got bingo boards, so we're gonna be talking
for a while, and if we say anything, you've got
your boards, You've got your writing utensils. The first person too,
I guess the rules of Bengo is a diagonal, horizontal

(01:05):
or vertical five in a row yellow Bechtel. That was
Aristotle's idea, and now everyone can find it on your board.
So yeah, I mean get great. We between Kalen and I,
we have about twenty five thoughts that go on a
loop and they're all on that Bengo board. So so

(01:28):
the winner will get a prize. UM. Shout out to
our fan at Danny Cavalier, who created the Spectel Bingo board,
so thank you. It was utilizing it. Yeah, and then
he was like, to prove the concept. I've really listened
to twelve episodes and lost Bengo at all of them. So,
but you guys are gonna win. Someone's gonna win anyway.

(01:51):
But around up the plus, has everybody here seen you?
Give it up? If you've seen the notebook? All right,
we've got some horny people in the audience. I like it.
Clap it up. If you have not seen the notebook,
don't be ashamed. Okay, so we've got a few people. Okay, cool,
We've got a lot to talk about. If you haven't
seen the notebook, we will, I mean, Caitlin is extremely

(02:13):
good at recapping things, so we will. We will guide
you through it, and we're gonna have We're gonna have
a killer time. I'm so excited for our guest too. Yes,
let's figure out. Yeah, she's a comedian. You know her
from our Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid episode all right,
and she wrote for the upcoming Misfits and Monsters. It's
going to be coming out on True TV. Give it

(02:34):
up for Caitlin gil Okay again to Caitlin's in one stage.
I don't know how similar our voices are, but I
am Caitlin Gil yes, and I am Caitlin Drante. We
forgot to introduce ourselves. Oh I'm little Jamie. I just
show up to I'm Skatelin Guilt the roller skate and

(02:56):
Grandma you'd like to fuck right love it? Oh my gosh,
I okay. First of all, I'm looking over your shoulder,
Kitlin uh Durante, Oh god, okay, looking over your shoulder,
Caitlin Durante, as I always am. And you've got how
many pages of notes today? Seven? Seven? And I'm sorry
I say that's a full note book. Good night, everybody,

(03:21):
Thank you very much, thank you. And that was a
full discussion. Eleven point font what's you're saying at one
point five one? Baby margins are slim? Caitlin's got a
lot of thoughts on this. I have exactly I don't.
I don't want to give you a bingo board moment whatever.

(03:45):
First of all, a man just yelled do it to me.
I'll gonna come up. No, Okay, I did. For all
you bingo borders out there, I did watch this movie
this morning, and I have exactly eight bullet points. I
got out a bottle of water, but I peeled the
label off so I knew which one was mine. That's
how prepared I am. That's not true very much. Degrees

(04:06):
of prepared a fast spectrum of preparedness. I watched the
movie three times, so for the podcast, let's clarify you
have seen it many times independently, only a couple before this. Okay,
don't don't. That's freeing, that's feude, fude in fud. We're

(04:31):
just giving them away and borne al from Milena. Okay,
I will just get it out at the top. Alfam
Billina in this movie could have played Rachel mcadam's twirly
mustache Dad for sure. For sure, because the mother is
a big character and we'll talk about her a lot,
But twirly mustache Dad. Isn't it for like three seconds
that he's always just like doing a twirly he's like,

(04:53):
you know, talking to a pool boy. I see, that's
like all he does. Like there's one and where he
talks to a poor man in another scene where he
talks to the sandwich with like crayfish on, it doesn't
pass the Backtel tests. If a guy with a twirly
mustache talks to a sandwich. I suggest we revised the rules.
What does that mustache smell like? I'm speaking of the

(05:15):
Bechtel test. I wonder, just out of curiosity, is there
anyone who has never listened to an episode of the
Bechtel Cast and are therefore very confused by everything that's
happened so far. Don't be afraid. They're nice. Oh we've
got a little hand. Okay, what if you really had
a little party. He's got a regular size hand? Thank you? Did?

(05:35):
Did someone bring you hi? Okay? Well, welcome, welcome. So
we will define the Bechtel Cast for you and you alone.
The best is fluid, beautiful, gorgeous. And the test does
have several interpretations. We use a very specific one. Yes,

(05:58):
the Bechtel test applied to for our sake movies. It
requires that there are two women who have names. Their
characters have names. They speak to each other, and their
conversation cannot be about a man. That is the test.
The Bechtel cast, we that's are sort of jumping off point.
We talk about the portrayal of women in movies, one

(06:19):
movie at a time. I do think it's funny that
sometimes people are like, oh, yeah, that's just the podcast
where you decide, Like, do you think we take an
hour deciding if one conversation takes tonight? I feel like
we could though. We Yeah, because we started a pre debate.
We did. We warmed up. Yeah. I asked whether or
not you guys think the notebook passes the test, and

(06:41):
we will, Well, well let's save it. Save it talking
away a twist, I do. As soon as I started
this segue, I was like, these two have a plan,
and I am like trying to be at the hot
shot guest all like, hey, guys, how about a guide
our conversation a little bit. You have seven pages of
eleven font note with slim. Margree basically brought a manifesto,

(07:02):
and I'm here like, why don't I throw out a
pitch for a topic. You've got this covered, We'll get there.
I think that, Yeah, you're the UNI Bomber. I'm the
UNI Bomber's friend. He didn't have any UNA. I know
that doesn't mean one. I just wanted it to mean one.
It means university Bomber because that's where he started. He
was ruined in a university. Anyway, don't I get a

(07:22):
university shout out to Kazynski. I have a Kazynski sweatshirt.
I was robbed of a Bechtel Bingo board moment when
I said speaking universities, take it home. To have a
master's degree from Boston University? What in screenwriting? Where from

(07:43):
Boston University? UNI bomber adjacent a master's degree? Indeed? Okay,
let's talk about the notebook? Shall we the notebook? Yes, Caitlyn,
you saw it recently. I had not seen the notebook,
and I did for this podcast. So that tells you
how deeply am willing sacrifice for the two of you.
Thank you so much, right, Jamie, when did you see it?

(08:05):
I saw this. I watched this movie with my grandma
on T N T. Let's say in two thousand and seven.
I think we watched it with commercials in Massachusetts and
two thousand. I remember at that time, I was like,
this is dumb. I don't love is. I was like
a big hot topic shopper, and I didn't really believe

(08:28):
in love if it wasn't directly related to Jack and Sally.
So so I did see that it, didn't care for it,
and didn't see it again until this morning, and I
watched it twice and I cried so much. Did you watch?
I got very I mean, and I've become a very

(08:49):
emotional adult. No, but I did, and I saw it,
and I was, I was. This was one of those
episodes where I was fully going and expecting to unequivvocally hate.
Have a problem with every element of this movie, and
there's mistakes were certainly made. We will discuss them. But
it did far better than I expect it because I
forgot forgot almost everything. Yes, so I think that takes

(09:13):
us to the recap and then we'll get into the discussion.
So the notebook, if you have not seen it, um
we open on two old people, Duke and unnamed old
woman who lives in a nursing home. They call him
Duke because they they're just like, what if it's not
Ryan Gosling parentheses old? Yeah, it's confusing. I guess that's

(09:36):
his nickname. They really could have. We could have used
a nickname reveal toward the end of the movie. They
they didn't do that. It would have been handy after
you know, you get you'll get there in the recap,
but there would have been a time to give him
a nickname. And frankly, I want to know why they
call him Duke. There's a story that doesn't come out

(09:56):
of nowhere. You don't just reading the paper one day,
you're Duke. Now He's never He's never referred to as
Duke in the earlier events of the movie. So something
happens between ages like and seventy. He becomes Duke. Good
life crisis, buys a boat, Call me Duke. Yeah exactly.

(10:18):
So our friend Duke visits this old woman and he
reads her a story from the notebook a notebook. Oh
I just I write, Yeah? Did you just want to
hear out why the movie is called the Notebook? I wouldn't.

(10:39):
It was a notebook as much as it was aleatherbound journal.
But that's not a leatherbound journal in theater's Mealentine's Day.
They just figured that out. Yea, yeah, happy. So, so
Duke reads this man a story from the book, and

(11:04):
the leather bounds up. The story is about Noah and Ali.
They are a couple of young people who meet for
the first time in ninety Noah is poor, he's a
poor boy, and he works at the lumber yard. When
do we want to introduce the fact that this is
like Titanic? Basically, there's a lot of As you go
through the recap, Oh god, these fucking bingo borders. I

(11:27):
don't know why were we gave it to you? Sorry,
like so gross of you to participate like we asked.
But do as you listen through the recap, there's so
many parallels that we will break down in detail. We
sure will so. Ali in the meantime is a rich
girl and her family is in town for the summer.

(11:47):
Noah pursues Ali, and she is resistant at first, and
we will don't forget to percent talk about it. He's
got a little news. He's hat. He's wearing a hat.
I love how I love like the interesting little choices
that people will make to make an actor who's clearly
like in his late twenties seem like a teenagers like
I just put a little newsy tat on him, just

(12:08):
like young make those pants bag year. That'll cut off
about five years, slouch a little bit and go oh man.
So he's pursuing her. She is not into it at first,
but eventually he wins her over and then they start dating.
But it's the summer before she's going to leave for college,
so she's about to leave for college, and they break

(12:28):
up because he's like, I don't see how we're gonna
make it work. I'm too poor. And then a few
years pass, Noah bidses like old plantation house and meanwhile
also goes to World War two? Ever heard of it?
Everyone's on their bingo boards. I guess world War two?
One World War two references on the bingo board. He

(12:49):
goes to war, his friend dies, he comes back, He
goes back, and he fits. He buys this old plantation
home that he was like, Ali and I are going
to live here because we're gonna be together forever. Psych
but that is what happens. Uh sorry, I just to
all everything. So he he makes this house all nice,

(13:10):
and then someone takes a picture of it in the
paper and then Ali sees it, except that meanwhile she's
found another man, James Marson. Yes, okay, the people some
people would disagree. I think Gosling to Marsden upgrade, That's
what I think. Yes, Yeah, James Marson is like cartoonishly handsome,
which is why he plays a cartoon What an upgrade.
Not only that actor is, but that character. Yeah, the characters,

(13:34):
majorly James Marson. God, it's like, like, what does he
do to his eyebrows or are they just like that?
It's just crazy, It's amazing. One of the parallels to
Titanic is that he has great eyebrows. Cal Hockley great eyelashes.
All right, what if Billy Zane was in both of
these movies? What if he was the connecting thread The

(13:56):
Notebook a movie about a notebook. So she's used his
picture in the paper, she faints because women be fainting,
and then in her wedding dress, and she decides to
go and see him, to pay him a visit because
it's been seven years and their relationship broke off kind
of abruptly. Oh and there's a whole thing where he

(14:17):
wrote her a letter every single day for a year
and her mom intercepted all those letters, so she never
got them and she didn't know that he was writing
to her, which honestly you lazy checked the mail once
a year. Yeah, get here, get up earlier and yeah
you see the mom getting the mail and it's like, yeah,
it's about two. She's fully dressed the same early. It's

(14:38):
not like she has the mail guy delivering stuff on
the low. He's delivering it regularly, right. So she approaches
him and she's like, hey, how how are you? And
he was like, I've been drunk for a long time.
To be fair, he's lost everyone, his dad and for Brith. Basically,

(15:03):
we'll get there. His name is Finn, but it's like
his name's and he died in nineteen twelve. Why is
he in this movie? So Ali and Noah reconnect, but
she's like, oh do I stay with my James Marsin Like,
just just so you know, Kitlen gill is fully I

(15:23):
was making the finger inserted into the fist sex implication
motion because they do it. That's when they do it.
That's the part of the movie where they do it.
It's true. If you're looking at the fast forward to
a really boring milk toast love scene, that's you gotta
go to about two thirds not even a nippy, not
even a nippy. There was gonna be a nippy. Yes,

(15:44):
they have sex, and she's like, wait a minute, Do
I stay with Lawn my James marsden fiance or Lawn
is James Marsin For the purpose of this podcast, we'll
be calling him James Marsden obviously, or do I go
back with Noah Ryan Gosling and honestly, because he makes
her come and and James Marsden doesn't, well, I don't

(16:10):
see it. Well, after they have sex, she's like, so
that's what I've been missing. I think there's because she
like how she is like losing her purity. I definitely
thought she had an between her knees until she went
back to see Noah. But that that's a very different interpretation.
That does have different The last spring, I think that

(16:31):
was her. I think she was having really boring sex. Okay,
so that so and that I would buy that that
she was basically telling James Marsden that she was a
virgin and wanted to wait for a marriage. I don't
even know even if that was like a little proper ship,
like this is a dude who asked her parents first
and all that, Like, I can't say for sure. It's

(16:54):
just that was my interpretation, because there was there was
nothing about that sex scene that implied in any way
that she would come from what he was doing. I
do not believe she was like that he had the
focus or dexterity to accomplish. No, it's stunted, a little joking,
and she's like, so that's what I've been missing out
on on this whole time. And then he turns to
her and I was like, yeah, it's all kind of

(17:18):
love scene where someone strong is carrying someone tiny, which
inevitably ends in the tiny person being pressed up against
the wall, and in this case it was like a cabinet.
There's nothing she's you cannot come with a handle sticking
in your back and like, yeah, okay, cool, you dragged me,
Like we're off the wall now and now we're just
in your ghostly ass plantation trying to fuck in the

(17:39):
same room we couldn't fucking when we were seventeen. What
do you remember how romantic it was to go back
to where you first tried to funk when you were seventeen.
Drive your car to your parents driveway and just sitting
it fumbling. Yeah, hard pass, hard pass. Yeah. I guess
we should all go back to that oh one Ford
focus that we were all in at one time. Okay,

(18:00):
so I kind of misinterpreted what happened. Now I think
that's open either way. We're still at the recap. So
she is like, yeah, I'm gonna pick Noah because he's
my first love. And she does confront her mom about
the whole letter thing and her mom was like shrug
and her mom. Her mom reveals that not only did

(18:21):
she hide the letters, but she did it in spite
of the fact that she herself harbored a young summer love.
That she still occasionally goes back to watch work in
his rock quarry from her fucking convertible Plymouth with her
like Gucci's on or whatever if that was a thing
in seven just watching this dude like shovel Rocks, it

(18:42):
looks at your daughter like I love her father, but
I'd still that graveled guy. That was the question, because
at the end of that scene he looks over, I'm like,
does he recognize her? And it's like, oh, yeah, we
used to hook up. And now forty years later, she
still comes and stares at me shovel Rocks. Sometime, in

(19:04):
case you're wondering if I've got that good dick or not.
Women be staring at me shoveling rocks four decades on.
Wax mustache guy outside like shoveling the driveway, like, I

(19:24):
don't know why she asked me to do this. She's
so aroused. When I come back in, wax mustache guy
comes like coins or like because he looks like an
extra from the Greatest Showman, Like he fully looks like
a magician who's gotten lost. It's just but she's she

(19:48):
loves him. Yeah. So the mom takes Ali to the
quarry or whatever, and it's like, I do once love
to pour and it's basically the end of the year.
And then she's like, make the right choice and then
drops her daughter off at the fully restored plantation mansion
the poor lives in so hard air quotes around poor

(20:11):
at home listeners. Right, so, and then at some point
in the story, it's revealed remember Duke and the old
woman who is hearing the story. Turns out Duke is
Noah and the old lady is Alip gasping. But the

(20:33):
reason that he is recounting this story to her is
that she has dementia and she's lost her memory. So
he reads the story to her to help her remember
their love for each other from the note book, it
turns out from the leatherbound journal, and then sometimes it
works and she remembers, and then they die together. I

(20:56):
totally forgot that there's this like rapid fire fifteen minute
ending where like she remembers, she sundowns, he has a
heart attack. He goes to see her in the ward
that she's now trapped in because he's not there to
read to her. I guess he like shovels out and
a nurse is like, sir, you're not allowed to walk around,
and I'm definitely gonna leave to get coffee and let
you wink winks. He goes in to see his ailing wife,

(21:18):
who wakes up in full cognizance. Hi, honey, good to
see you know. Uh, do you think our love could
kill us together? He crawls into bed, and that poor
nurse comes back to work in the morning, like I
can't whistle into the microphone, but she is a whistling
carrying a cup of coffee, Like I wonder where those
old people who are in love are. Pushes open the door, corpses, blackout,

(21:42):
credits roll. Sorry there are birds first, and then credits
roll a lot of swans, a lot of bird for
I thought they were geese, and I was like, are
we to believe that writing consoling has been a goose
that apparently we are. We missed it, we didn't. You
can't cap the birds. But the movie opens on this lay.

(22:02):
I love to notice in a movie, like when the
editor's name pops up in the opening credits, like what
scene was there? Because that's obviously a choice. The editor
chooses that, or like director of photography, and all of
them are just like glorious birds, like everyone who edited
or had a like a saying how the picture looks?
Opens to swan soaring. The movie goes through and they're
at the beach and Ali's like, what has be incarnated

(22:24):
as a bird? No, it's like that's weird, except fine,
you're a bird. I'm a bird. And then when Ali
comes back to see you now after after he's rebuilt
the house, he's like, come with me. I'm not gonna
tell you where, but it's probably dangerous. I consistently endanger you.
And then took her on a boat to see ducks.
They look at ducks, at rains, then their land. It's like,
let's die together. They die together. Camera pulls out of

(22:45):
the nursing home, fucking birds, like, did we need this
book end? I hope somebody. I hope a camera, like
a b unit camera guy got shot on so hard.
I hope that there is someone in the theater in
two thousand four who just like wailed like and there's
bird like that really made that tied the movie together
for them. I will say I decided to view that

(23:07):
from like a bitter on relence. There's no reason to
It is beautifully shot. It's some gorgeous immagery way to go, like, yeah,
be a bird. I guess that's a very free way
you imagine your dead parents, which is what that movie
makes you do at the end. So cool. Yeah great.
Here's another question I had because there is a moment
in the Old People's Story where all of their kids
and grandkids show up, but Ali doesn't realize that because

(23:29):
she has dementia, and so Duke it's just like dude,
I like to think he joined a middle aged man's
basketball week and he's like, I'm Duke. He got Duke's
jersey from last year and he's Duke now. Yeah, But
there's like a brief conversation after Ali takes her nap
or she like she leaves the scene and all the

(23:50):
kids are talking to to Noah and they're like, oh,
Mom doesn't remember us of that. I'm like, have you
read this weird, long handwritten story about your parents? Fucking Like,
do they know the notebook story? I feel like they
all do. I feel like they all know. Like, hey,
when we first tried to lose our virginity, it was confusing,
but Tanya, years later, we raw dogg hard. I hope

(24:15):
there's some explanation for why those kids were so fucked
up and cold. They're seriously only in the movie to
be like mom doesn't recognize me, and then immediately be
like dead leave mom, she's boring. Will help like they don't,
and then they just take off, never to be seen again.
That was the part in the movie where I genuinely

(24:36):
because it is for some reason intentionally ambiguous for a while,
who the identity of the old man is. Once the
kids were so like fuck her, leave her, I was like,
maybe he's actually James Marston. And the kids know that
their dad has no self respect and that she's been

(24:57):
in love with Ryan Gosling the whole time, and they're like,
you've blown your life on this lady. James Marsden has
to go read the book about how she fell in
love with Ryan Gosling to get her to remember it
every single day. He has to be like, so you
want to hear this story about how you don't love
me again? Although you know I wouldn't put it past Marsden.

(25:20):
He's a class act, alright, So onto. So in this
page of Caitlin's notes, there's some highlighting, and there's different shades.
There's a what would you call this a table? It's
a bit of a lavender shaded box. The box. It's
very so what I've done here. So the first thing
I wanted to talk about is the first fifteen minutes

(25:42):
of the movie and how problematic they are. I will
quote my girlfriend here who watched this with me. I
love her so much. Thank you. That was very kind
of you. Get it up for a love, Kelly. Let's
die in the same senior home. Gurnee someday hands told
I get writing that notebook, girl. Uh, but she looked

(26:06):
over and she was like, so get ready, because I'm
pretty sure this movie is responsible for all the problems
that women have had with men for the past fourteen years,
like this problematic setup. This fifteen minutes is why men
are so confused about what we actually want and why
women are letting dudes crawl onto their carnival rides. I
guess right, yeah, walk us through it because it The

(26:26):
first fifteen minutes is like, so we open in ninety
there at a carnival. Noah sees Ali from a distance,
she's riding bumper cars. He I'm pretty sure we witnessed
her getting the CT that cost her later brain traumpa.
This is that's foreshadowing as hard as those birds. Amazing.

(26:49):
You can map this scene directly on Titanic as well,
for when Jackson's rose for the first time on the
Titanic deck at a distance and it's like, who is
rich girl? And then then his friend is like, that
is rich girl. She is rich and then he says me,
must have her. That basically happens in this scene as West. Indeed,

(27:10):
so he's leering at her. She gets out of her
bumper car. He like runs up to her and says,
do you want to dance? She responds no, why not
because I don't want to? And then they go off. Jeez,
so fucking ambiguous. I don't want to look could that
possibly mean? So then they get on a ferris wheel,

(27:33):
Ali and this other guy and no it jumps onto
the seat that they are in and she screams, get
off me, don't touch me, and then he himself. They're like,
go away, and the ferris wheel operators like you can't
sit there, and he stops the ferris wheel. So in
order to resolve that situation, he instead he climbs out

(27:56):
of the seat and hangs from the fort swheel guy
Noah hangs from probably thirty to forty ft in the air.
His news, he's caap, totally intact. The ferris wheel operator
is just like, yes, fine, this is not a liability.
I will let this happen. I definitely shouldn't have just
waited for their car to come to the ground before

(28:17):
I stopped the ride. I made a good plan by
stopping it while he was suspended in mid air. Also,
there's this other guy in the scene with Ali the
whole time, who we understand to be like her friend,
who is demonized by the movie hard as like when
Noah first is like, dance with me and she's like no,
and then the guy's like, hey, leave her alone, like

(28:38):
the movie would have you believe, what an asshole. I'm like, no,
that's hurt, that's someone she knows. Yeah. So he's now
hanging from a ferris wheel forty ft in the air,
and he says, now, will you go out with me?
She says what? No? No, no, no, and then his

(29:02):
friends like, we're just you play all parts the friend
who the movie thinks as an asshole. It's like, apel,
she just told you. Noah says why not? Ali says
I don't know because I don't want to, and then
he lets go of one hand and now he's dank

(29:25):
myself super stable, no red flex here, and then e
from Entourage is like, just go out with him. That's Fabrizio, right, Finn. She,

(29:46):
because he's threatening to kill himself, play kates him by
being like, okay, fine, I'll go out with you and
we can end the movie right here. So weird. This
poor guy approached me and like and then it's like
just fell from a ferres feel to his death. Anyways,

(30:07):
I'm going to Sarah Lawrence next year. And then he
was all smug about it, and he was just like, oh,
don't do me. Any favors, like, fine, I'll go out
with you. And then she takes his pants off, which
I don't know what to make of that. We can
get into it later. He's trying to get some sorty
I mean that. I was like, at least she did
something to give herself the upper hand. I don't understand.

(30:28):
I was like, did she take his dick out? In?
Like she didn't? She didn't. Yeah, that whole scene is
is a nightmare and is like totally textbook giving young
men the wrong idea and giving young women the wrong
idea of like, here's the beginning to a beautiful love story.
A man would be the rest of your life. You're

(30:48):
going to become a swan with this man, for sure, right,
Like if a guy harasses you having never met you
and he's wearing a horrendous hat, this is the man
who will hold your hands as you die, Like, it's
not good, right, Because then in the next scene he
sees her walking down the street. He sprints up to

(31:09):
her and he's like, Oh, I'm really sorry. That was
stupid for me to crawl on a ferris wheel, but
I had to do it. I was drawn to you.
I thought he was about to say, like I was
very drunk or high. He was like, I was drawn
to I was like, so that's not an excuse at all. Yeah,
I was drunk, perfectly reasonable. I was drawn. Do you

(31:31):
running running in the other direction? Leaving, fleeing? And then
he goes, hey, how about that date? And she's like
what date? And he's like the date you agree to
and she says no, and he's like you did. You
promised you swore it, and then she's like, I changed
my mind. But she's like flirting with him now, and

(31:51):
they're always flirting. Well, that's the thing is like, even
in the middle of these super weird, stocky scenes, she starts,
like her character starts to engage it just a little
bit and just a little bit, until you, as a
like thirteen year old watching this with your grandma, let's
just say, are fully gaslighted and being like, oh yeah

(32:13):
this if someone is horrible to you, that's a freaking yes.
That's just because then the scene ends with he's like,
what's it going to take to change your mind? And
she's like, love that he'll figure something out. I guess,
he splits he didn't. He. I actually thought they might
have written these lines for her, and they switched sides
that day because he winds up saying like, I'll be
anything you want me to be. You want me to

(32:34):
be smart, you want me to be strong, you want
me what do you want? You want me to be
a big guy. I'll be a big guy. And then
she's like, you're dumb. I can be that like instantly,
just like I will make myself literally anything you tell
me to be. I am a slate for you to
draw upon. I am but a canvas. You are the
brush you like painting. Right Wait, I don't find that
out until I take you to the middle of the

(32:55):
street and make you lay down, And she does. Right,
can I break down this date? Because they go on
a date, they go to a movie with friends. They
sit apart from each other. He leaps across seats to
be next to her. Apparently she's fine with that. He
stares at her, not the movie and just watches her

(33:16):
eat popcorn. Again, totally fine. Who isn't comfortable with a
man lustily staring at you as you like move buttered
greasy fingers to your mouth. They leave the movie. They
decided to walk together. Finn is like you and love
now and they're like, oh maybe, and they walk into
the street. He uh tells her, you don't know what
you like, you don't know what you're doing. I'm condensing
this conversation, but that is the thesis, like, what do

(33:37):
you like to do for fun? Oh? What your parents
tell you? That's stupid, You're stupid. And then it's like,
you don't take any risks. Come here and take the
risk I tell you to take, whether it's what you
want to do or not. I'm gonna show you how
to be free. And it's by stepping into this cage
that I'm building for you us. One of the most
romantic scenes in the movie, Oh yeah, precious, he lays

(33:58):
down in the middle of the street to watch the
lights change, like he used to do with his dad.
I don't know, get a nickel, go to the goddamn movies.
He gets her to lay down, and she thought. She
loses herself in the moment. You know what I do
for fun? You know what ive? I love painting? Hong
Kong beep car coming doesn't slow down even a little
bit as they laip out of the road. Oh so
what it takes for you to realize that you like painting?
Is to be seconds from death. Honey, loosen up. You're

(34:20):
not doing good. But that whole first date is like,
your ambitions are wrong. Do what I tell you to do.
You don't know how to think for yourself, but I'll
tell you some options. Choose between the one I tell
you was right. Also laid down in traffic. That's the day.
Well in the movie, in the notebook, the next page
it cuts back to the old people and it's like,
and they were inseparable after that, Like that's what it

(34:40):
took Jesus Christ. Well, let's backtrack a minute, because while
this movie does not have a surprise kiss, I don't
know if that's one of the Bengo things. It does
not have a surprise kiss. This movie, I would argue,
has a surprise date because Noah's like, hey, Finn, arrange
this thing so that I can hang out with Ali,

(35:01):
and then they all go to the movies. It's like
Finn and her friend Sarah and then Noah and Ali
and he shows up and she's visibly uncomfortable. She's like,
what's he doing here? She's not happy that he's there.
But some point in the movie something switches. We do
not understand why this happens, but suddenly she's okay with him,

(35:21):
and then there's the traffic scene. Though I think that
that's where we're supposed to be, Like Bond is like
when they when this horrible thing happened, like yeah, but
the fact that she agrees to go to that point
with him because he's like, you want to go for
a walk and she's like okay, sure, and it's like how,
like what what? Unclear? Like their Nicholas Sparks is clearly

(35:41):
a very stable man who is definitely kissed a girl before,
and every wait a story he tells has an uncanny
vale quality of like and the girl just comes around.
He's he's wearing a hat. Wait, I know what it is.

(36:03):
I know what it is. So she enters the movie
being like, oh, I don't want to hang out with
this guy. I'm sitting several people away from him. She
watches that movie. The movie tricks her and it's like, Oh,
this is how romance is supposed to be. It's supposed
to be a man praying on you and not ever.

(36:23):
But I'm tended now because that's what they were watching.
I don't know right which I mean, it's sad to
say any movie that came out ever, is pro predatory
stalking if it was in theaters in I'm not sure
it had a progressive discourse on intersectional feminism. And then
I just laid out in traffic and wait, I prince

(36:45):
to come. Yeah, so that's why I think up. But
she saw the movie and then she got because movies
are very influential, she was like, oh, I guess this
is how romance is supposed to be. So it is.
I mean, it's very like predatory stalking start to this
relationship in this movie. And that is so common in
all romance movies and all rom coms specifically. And I

(37:07):
want to make a point to not like, I think
that people are so often shamed for enjoying rom comms
and romantic movies in a way that like dudes are
not shamed for enjoying like transformer style movies. And so
it's like, if you love romantic movies, awesome. There's a
lot of parts of these movies that I like choked
up at and thought was like extremely beautiful, But I

(37:28):
didn't because I have no emotions. You're welcome, Okay, she's
pandering to the bingo boards. But but but like the
predatory stocking narrative is so prevalent in both of these
genres to the point where it's like, I mean, I
can draw in an example in my own life of
like a dude pursuing me pretty reluctantly when it's clear

(37:51):
it's like, oh, you've just seen this movie, Like that's
weird when you spot quotes like in somebody's terms like
terrifying pursuit of you were recognized, like are you getting
a boom box right now and coming to my house right?
I feel like that's where you got it. And the
thing that bumps me out about it is that I
do love romance. I love infatuation, and I totally by
seeing someone being so taken they just have to talk

(38:14):
to him, and like finding a love that you're so
passionate about even those circumstances in your life are unsure,
Like that's such a real and beautiful situation, Like falling
in love young and figuring out a way to see
it through your adulthood and your seniorhood. That's such a
beautiful story. And it is terrible that these are the
dominant narratives in them, Like there are absolutely ways to

(38:37):
meet the love of your life at a carnival that
aren't endangering a woman and then manipulating her in the
dating you it could start with a candy apple, Like,
let's just resource like, you've got a lot of excellent
things available to shortage of setups, no shortage of props.
You've got a lot of stuff. Like the first thing
is you can do with the carnival. His friend Finn
wins a twiny toy at like one of those like

(38:58):
hammer hit a thing real hard, like we know that
strong boy. Yeah no, what goes on to build a fight,
a war and build a house with his fucking hands,
Like you had so many choices that weren't that. It's
a bummer that more of these movies because I love
that heart. I do like this movie. It's a good
movie with great performances. I wish that's what they weren't perform, Like,

(39:18):
I wish there was something better that they could have
been doing. Right. A few chunks of this movie that
play into those tropes in such a direct way, and
then other chunks of this movie that are so beautiful
that it's just like I wish that, Yeah, if this
movie has started and been framed in a different way,
that would have been like more realistic than what we see.

(39:38):
It would have been like way easier to digest the
rest of the movie totally. But instead, Yeah, the movie
like frames is like very stocking. Predatory behavior is romantic.
I did want to say we were talking about this
in the car over, not to justify this setup at all,
because it is bad and this movie came out in
two thousand four and it feels right. But I have

(40:03):
been thinking about this a lot every time I see
like a periods that movie of like, how so many
couples in this period of time their beginning of their
love story is very predatory and creepy. I think that
if a lot of like if anyone knows of like
how their grandparents met, guaranteed terrifying. My grandparents, my paternal grandparents,

(40:24):
and my dad told me this after both of them
had died, and in the middle of telling me the
story was like, oh, this is how my grandparents met.
My grandmother fifteen years old walking her infant sister around
in a carriage outside, brought to Massachusetts nineties beautiful. A
man eight to ten years her senior, my future grandfather,

(40:46):
spotsor from behind, cat calls her, says hey, that your baby.
She turns to him says no. He says, cool, want
to go on a date this weekend. They're married for
five million years, just like imagine marrying the first man
who cat called you, like I just I expected better off.

(41:07):
Well in the notebook, we see like all the times
that she either says a flat out no or I
don't want to or don't touch me. She says it
like eight times. And why Like movie basically like teaches
men like, oh, just push past the no like emotional yeah,

(41:29):
to like ignore the no because eventually she'll give in.
Just wear her down and it's going to be romantic.
Like that's the horrible, irresponsible message that so many fucking
movies send. I never find the movie to Brownie points
that I didn't expect one the scene where they try
to do it and can't. I think they did that
pretty well with them stripping in front of each other.
But I'm old and apparently very frigid. Uh. But they

(41:53):
so they try to get it down like in their
Summer of Love when they're young. They try to boe
and she gets nervous and very chat in the middle,
and he I think there's like a physical expression of
frustration of like, oh like, which is understandable. Uh, but
he like rolls over and they just talk for a minute.
He's not mad, he's not pouty. He doesn't ask her
a bunch of shitty. He says, we don't have to

(42:14):
do this if you don't want to. Yep. I think
that's bonus points. They're a teenagers who have been rubbing
on each other all summer. Like, this is a tough moment,
heart conversation. I thought that that was well handled. Also,
when you're in the movie Lawn, what a gentleman like
la that she winds up ditching and in the scene

(42:35):
in which she ditches him, she is expressing her emotions,
perhaps clearly for almost the first time in the film. Uh,
when she was saying no to Rye and don't touch me.
But she's honest. She tells him that she's like, hey, Lan,
I'm gonna go on a trip. I have to figure
some sh it out before we get married. That's pretty honest.

(42:57):
Don't have to be specific yet you're not. You don't
know what you're doing yet. Once Lon is like figuring
it out, she comes to him and talks to him,
is honest. Bonus point and his reaction is pretty tempered.
I could kill him, like a punch him in the
nose where I could leave you. But none of those
are really good because they don't give me you like,
oh you're like good job. Even before that, whenever she's saying, hey,
I have I have to go take care of some things.

(43:17):
I'm going to go to seawood or whatever, then it's
called world the tank. In this world, Rachel make out
into love with a whale shape of water so fast
Jamie started sells open and fishman to activated. My legs

(43:40):
are double crossing a like wrapped around each other, trying
not to have to change my clothes. The fish is
so hot. Say please sit in a movie with a
lot of negative like narratives that there were at least
a couple of points where dudes and ladies can learned
some good ship. Well and yeah, like the scene whenever

(44:02):
she's just like I have to go take care of
some things and he's like, oh, you're getting cold feet
and she's like no, He's like, but that's totally normal,
Like take as much time as you need, do whatever
you have to do. Like he's very supportive. I feel
like it would have been very easy for this movie
to paint that character is like they're just lazy, easy whatever,
like he's abusive, or he's mean, or he's distant or
any number of things. And I think this is one

(44:24):
of the because by and large the Titanic parallels, which
we should break down, by and large, the ways that
it's the same are like in a way that is
Titanic gets the edge, but in this way, I think
it's really interesting to present the guy she's going to
marry as a good guy because it makes her choice
harder and it makes it more interesting to watch, where

(44:44):
like cal Billy Zane, no one's going to fall in
love with this guy there, he's a mess, and and
and so it makes it so clear, you know, it's like, oh,
well then these two characters should be together, no question.
But it is kind of like hard as an audience
member to be like, oh, she's she's caught between a

(45:06):
great guy and Ryan Goslin in a house, and and
so it is like kind of more interesting to watch.
I did want to get back to that virginity scene
because I thought it was so I was so pleasantly
surprised at how well done it was, where yeah, I mean,
you just see like positive communication between teenagers in a

(45:26):
sexual situation, which is like, um, what there, but it's good.
And then also another I didn't like climb on top
of her and then hang off of her and then
let go of one hand, like just do it? Come on, yeah,
call back to their meeting. But it was it was good.
I mean the fact that they're basically like, they're like,
let's lose our virginity in this haunted house. It's like

(45:49):
that I'm gonna buy and make pretty for you, right,
so we can sucking this less haunted house later hot place.
Ten years of four plays, I made out with an
abandoned farmhouse. Never promised me he'd painted white and put
shutters on it. I should have held out for something
better in middle school, you know, proms to making out
in a farmhouse, though it was crazy, drink a lot
of peach snaps in that weird building. Nine. Should we

(46:13):
take this time to discuss be parallels between I think
it would be a good time to point the fact
that you have a dark gray box with a white
font all bald some underlined. I don't know why you're
shaming me for my amazing organizational skills there's this okay,
so fan theory, and then we fact checked it right

(46:34):
before we we came on stage. My original theory was
that Nicholas Sparks wrote the book The Notebook right after
seeing Titanic, because so much of it is like seen
by scene, kind of the same thing in a lot
of places. But then we found out because as we
all know, Titanic came out in December, the Notebook the

(46:57):
Book came out in six So new fan theory by
Kaitlin Gill is that James Cameron stole the Notebook because
he had to shoehorn a love story into his weird
boat movie. And I I like that. I think I
think that could be very I know that that's true,

(47:18):
that they shoehned a love story. I mean, I think
that's kind of common knowledge about Titanic because you wind
in a movie with fancy boats and things that went underwater.
But they were like, no, that's not a movie, and
he was like, love story and they were like, forty
million dollars bring insane. That famous Hollywood line push a
button a carbonite block just comes at rome. So there
is so there is so much all right, starting with

(47:41):
the framing device of an old person telling a story
that takes place many decades earlier. Poor boy sees rich
girl with reddish hair, Instantly enamored with her, they meet
and vollmov very quickly. In Titanic it's a matter of
a day, poor boy teaches rich girl how to not

(48:02):
be such a stuffy rich girl. Poor boy like re
educates rich girl because in in both of these movies,
poor people are cute people. They play the spoons on
their porch or under the deck of a boat, the
Difficulties of the Port. I just want to give you
a soundtrack for the Port conn Well, not exact dancing

(48:23):
is in both movies. The news He's had dancing. It's like, oh,
poor people be dancing in newsies hats all the time,
never mind the fact that they're fucking dying like they're whatever.
Then we've got rich girl has fiancee who is a
rich boy. Rich girl's family disapproves of poor boy in

(48:45):
that exact same scene where they have a meal with
the poor boy and they're like for being poor. Yeah,
They're like, so you're poor, and he's like, yeah, being
poor is cute, and they're like, well, we don't think
it's cute, and then the rich girls like, oh my god,
I'm so sorry. Let's go dance in a Newsy's hat,

(49:06):
and that is how it. Both movies got a dinner
scene in The Notebook starts with waxy mustache Da telling
like a joke, being like, oh, we're all a bunch
of millionaires and yet we live with several whores. He's
a feminist icon. We can all create icon. James Marsden

(49:29):
in this movie is a feminist icon. But yeah, I
was um. He's a little creepy when he's all on
the cement plaster and it's like like he meets at
because she's a nurse in New York, and then he
comes back from the world busted up. He's got a
bruce face, so you don't always cute yet, and he's
in a big claster thing so you don't always fit yet,
and he just like she like half flifts him up

(49:49):
and he's like getting into his bed pan presumably he's
cut to blow his waist like, and she's like, you're
a zombie. No, He's like, someday I won't be. And
the next thing it's like comic fancy car, I'm better
come here, and the twist is I'm James Marson, and
she's like, Okay, sounds good. He's like, I'm James Marson. Okay,

(50:09):
James Morrison is we have to say the owner of
a cotton plantation in ninety so like there's other stuff
going on with his view. We haven't even talked about
the Bechdel test part, which also is problematic with the
time period in the South. But we'll get there, Truman
to get there, because I we do. Because this, yeah,

(50:31):
just a couple more Titanic parallels, but I want to
get through. Rich girl and poor boy drink beer together.
Poor boys friend whose name begins with f dies tragically.
This is my favorite, am This is my Finn dies
in World War Two. Fabrize Ceo dies via Titanic smokestack.

(50:54):
It's basically the same thing. But there's one key difference
between the two movies that in the Notebook the old
people die at the end, and in Titanic Rose simply
falls asleep and has a dream. She can we just
round of applause. Who thinks that she dies at the
end of Titanic agrees that she falls asleep and has

(51:16):
a dream. I'm actually I thought I was with you
there in one person clapping in the back dream. Yeah,
thank you everyone. Because the credits of Titanic, you just
see Bill Paxton like holding up an old banket just
off the top of the boat, sticks down with the jewel. Oh,

(51:39):
rest in Paradise. One of the things that I wanted
to bring up. And this isn't specifically about any female characters,
but it is about the portrayal of men and masculinity
because the relationship between Noah and his dad is actually
like very positive and healthy and like a very nice
portrayal of that father son relationship in him. It that

(52:00):
we almost never see in movies, especially of a movie
of this kind. It's a period piece, it takes place
in the South, they're poor. A lot of movies I
think would be like have an emotionally abusive or physically
abusive father or he And that's also just like crazy
writing that we see a lot is like the daddy
is bad, mustache dad is Also he's got that kind

(52:23):
of like charming evil of the South where like, you're
positive he's racist and he's definitely misogynist, but he's also
overtly sweet to everyone, and he's never like even unkind
to his daughter, and you don't see a lot of him,
but what that actor manages to portray as kind of
that dad's thing of like I know what you're doing
and I know you might get hurt, but like I

(52:44):
love you. There's I know it's very small, but I
kind of got like a little there's a little scene
where he's just on the porch where and she gets home.
My favorite take in the movie is Rachel McAdams being
scared of her father, like she jumps. He doesn't realize
he's there as she walks onto the porch and gives
a great jump take that I want to loop in
a gift that I would never stop watching. Um. But
he's just sort of he's paternal in a way that
isn't negative in a movie where it would have been

(53:05):
really easy, Joan Allen is the more complex parmental figure
for Allie. Her mom is definitely the one who is
more protective for complex reasons too. By the way, I'm
not the first to express this sentiment, but I will
give myself credit for novel phrasing. I'm convinced that there's
a phone in Joan Allen's house that just rings every
time Hollywood needs a distressed mother. It's just like a

(53:25):
hotline directly to only her. And if she's not already
on a set being a mom who's sad, she has
to go to another set immediately. They're like als and
Janny's busy. But that dad isn't so bad either, And
there's good male friendships except for like trying to you know,
set your dude up with a date with a girl
who doesn't want to go on that date. Aside from
that problematic, like, you know, it's not the worst toxic masculinity,

(53:48):
it's like romance toxicity. It's somehow different for both men
and women. Yeah, I mean aside for her because it's
like a guy with a great dad, a girl with
parents who don't and care about her, who seems to
have a level head right, Like they're onto something here.
Their kids would like there's no trauma in their background
that makes them irresponsible with romance. There's something like whatever,
I don't know if it's cultural. There's just something about

(54:10):
the circumstance of romance that makes them be totally evil
Turts like you know what with a great dad who
like reads some poetry, hanging from one arm on a
ferris wheel, like there's a disconnect, Like you've read poems,
you've read sonnets, you should have some idea of how
to treat a lady. Where's your bouquet of Posey's, dude?

(54:30):
Like how many of those? If you take a hike
famous Walt Whitman poem about hanging off of Carnival and
then she was mine. The romance is broken. Maybe not
not families, I guess. I don't know. I did really
like the father character and like actually was his father

(54:50):
because yeah, because I forgot that he died and I
was like, yeah, that was that was so quick that
seat of the funeral because they know his father passed
us after they were store the house together, and he
is uh. They expressed that by saying it out loud.
And then there's like a two second flash, almost like
a coke appearing in a movie theater trailer. To like
get you thirsty, they just throw up a flash card

(55:10):
of a funeral. It's like ten people in black suits
facing a hole in the ground, and then it's gone.
I just picture like the director being like, fun we
need a scene in the funeral. Everybody get your suits
and go outside. Staffers and suits. There's there is like,
and that's the only thing you see of the funeral.
It's like people leaving the funeral. It's not even them

(55:31):
at It's like they're like, well that was sad. The
way this movie YadA YadA, YadA, is everything that isn't
their relationship. It is totally focused on the two of
them and whether or not they're going to stay together
other the World War two is just like, I don't know,
it's like we're going to ore, We're back. That's the
whole thing. They're like, Fabrizio died. That's too bad. There

(55:51):
there there was I. They do fast forward a lot
of stuff, but I feel like they still care. They
the characters still developed as if all of those things
are happening. But because we're only talking about the relationship
beats sometimes when we cut foward, we're like, whoa, why
is Ryan gosl like an alcoholic? And then you're like, wait,
he loves everyone he loved died, that's why. And now

(56:14):
only has this this haunted plantation and a war widow
to thing. Oh what we got to talk about the
war widow? She was disservista. There's a pun there. Where
are we? How's everyone doing on their bingo boards we've
got Okay, okay, I feel like, um, there are no
cats in this movie. Cats have eight nipples. This has

(56:37):
been cat facts with Kaitlyn does that. I don't think
there are any cats. There's a noticeable there's just ducks.
I like the scene where um Martha shot who is
Noah's I guess buddy, Like he clearly does not take
her very seriously and it is not serious about her.

(56:58):
This is this is like in the future, well not
like well, like you know, it's after he's restored the house.
He's in a big old plantation mansion. All dead dad's
in the backyard. I guess wherever you put your old
people when you're poor but have a mansion. Uh, all
of Noah's hamsters and also his father. But yes, there's
a lady a couple towns over who swings by for

(57:18):
a little sad time boody call. It's just sad people boning.
Who hasn't been that's yeah, we've all been there. But
in the scene in which she and Ali meet, there's
just an understanding of like, oh, you're the person that
he used to love. Oh, you're the person that he
currently sucks. Nice to come on in. I feel like,
I mean, they're both very mature about another. Plandy point
I forgot for this movie where two women don't call

(57:39):
each other's side out like an episode of Cheaters. Says
comes by like, oh, I've heard a lot about You've
heard a lot about you too. Let's go in while
it's daylight and you're gonna leave when it's nighttime. YadA, YadA, YadA.
Conversations that happened inside. I guess, but I just think,
like I think again, like lazy writing would have had
them just like be very petty and jealous at each other.
But realistically, I don't want to meet my fun buddies,

(58:00):
love of their life. I will say if I'm sucking
him because my husband died in the same war, this
dude came back from there, that's a whole other movie.
It's like the war Vett fucking the War Widow is
a whole other kind of romance. Like she's not there
to stay. What are you going to do? Live in
the eyes of the memory that the war that your
husband didn't come back. Yeah, tell me again what the
war was, like, I don't think that's gonna ca The

(58:22):
notebook does not care about the war, all the winter whatever.
The opposite of a spring the summer romances. This is
the dark, cold season's romance. The notebook does not care
about World War two to the point where why did
it even take place? As World War two was happening,
because it comes in at almost no point. It's like
glazed over as like, oh, I guess we'd better addressed

(58:43):
the fact that World War two happens. Also, we got
to figure out how to kill Fabrizio. It was just
to kill Finn because she's gone by then. He just
makes that choice, like after at least this is part
of his mourning the loss of his love. After that
year of letter writing, I don't know, war broke out.
I guess I'll join the army, right, yeah, heaven Fabrizio
or like working at some rocky yard for pores and

(59:04):
and they're like everyone better join up, and they're like,
thats good. How do we feel about Ali as a
character herself? I generally I like how her character has
developed over time because she starts out on top because
she's repeatedly saying no, which is great. But then once
she is involved in this relationship when she's younger, especially,

(59:27):
she's very combative, but you see her kind of mellow
out as she gets to the point where she like
hits him. She looks physically abusive to Ryan Gosling to
the point where there's one scene where they're breaking up
when they're teenagers where she's hitting him over and over,
and then there was this I had to rewind it
because i was like, did he hit her back? But no,

(59:48):
he hits He also starts hitting himself, and I'm like,
why are we all hitting Ryan Gosling? This is very stressful,
but she hits him a bunch of time. I was like,
this is this is please stop hitting Ryan as he's
a national treasure, like he's Canadian, so he's a Canadian.
They're both from the same town. And Rachel McAdams is
two years older than mine Gossling. I'd like to point

(01:00:09):
that out because usually the Hollywood age gap has a
male man being too many man how I would full
of mail. Then the man being like years and years
sometimes decades older than especially romance with a seventeen year
old girl. Yeah, that guy could have been fifty and

(01:00:30):
it would have been like Rachel, I mean strengthly speaking
from a Rachel McAdams perspective the Rachel McAdams. She is
I think awesome in this movie. This is also the
same year that Mean Girls comes out, Like her two biggest,
most different roles came out the same year. She's awesome.
I love her. Okay, sorry, that's it, we can go home. No,
Ali is a character I don't know. I mean, there's

(01:00:52):
a part of her that is a little bit like
rich girl underwritten for me of just like she's never
really struggled, and then just sort of why does everyone
like her so much? Why are we all like dying
to I don't know. She paints another thing. It's like,
oh god, what a what a lazy like trope of
just like, but she wants to be an artist. I mean,

(01:01:15):
let's be She doesn't say I want to be an artist.
She says, I paint for fun, right, there's no ambition
beyond just like hanging out with a canvas. I guess,
like it's really and someday I'd like to be in
a gallery. I think. I don't know. I give him
out for Christmas, Like it just seems like and that's
like and that's used as sort of this weird leveraging

(01:01:38):
point of why we should favor Ryan Gossling over James
Marsden because Ryan Gosling leaves this series of literal arrows
leading to a canvas and then she paints in the nude.
Because he tells her how to have fun. He instructs
her with physical arrows where to go to have a
good time. This is your recreation. But and also it's

(01:01:59):
like at that and it's like, imagine if someone was
telling you, hey, you liked doing this ten years ago,
you probably still love it. Somebody sets up a dance
dance Revolution pat in a PlayStation two for me. I
know you, but then but then we're we're supposed. Oh.
James Morrison doesn't get it because one day she shows
up at his office in the middle of the day

(01:02:20):
and she's just like I used to like painting, and
he does not tell her to get the funk out,
which is when I should. Oh. Man, he's James Morson
is a champ because she's so like and both of them,
to their other romantic partners, but especially Ali, are very
like emotionally careless towards them. James Marson has done nothing

(01:02:41):
to deserve, like her going off for a week and
cheating on him for a week and then coming back
and being like I don't know, and then I just
feel like someone different when I'm with him, right, and
I'm just like, oh, that's something that people who cheat
on you, who can't be trusted would say. But it
is a lifelong romance founded by teenagers on a summer

(01:03:03):
fling and then infidelity, Like those are the two bread
rock moments of their then lifelong relationship. So that's fight
where he like, Noah's like, there's gonna be a lot
of work where you gonna working at it every day, Like, yeah, dude,
you started this on some rocky ground, not at your job.
And also we got a lot of trust to build, buddy.
They have they have this exchange a couple different times

(01:03:24):
where they're like, we fight all the time, that's okay,
Like when their teenagers are like all like there was
like a voice over like all they do is fight,
cut to Rachel McAdams hitting Ryan gossling incessantly, but boy
did they kiss nice? No, that's not what a good
relationship is. And then they say it again ten years later,

(01:03:45):
all we do is fight, That's fine. I would have
loved to see her pop out of to menship at
the end and spend the three minutes she had cognizant,
Just like is the candles that you're putting out? These
are my scandle stits, you idiot, just parading him. Um.
I wanted to mentioned that, as with most mainstream Hollywood movies,
this is a very heatero movie. This is a very

(01:04:06):
white movie. All the character is fun. What are you
talking about? At Lee's dad is totally gay. Hello sou
southern dandy's married pretty ladies head to the South. Y'all
tapped it all the time. That mustache daddy, he gay
queer icon mustache daddy. For all you bingo borders out there,
I feel like that's from the text of Joan Allen

(01:04:27):
in the car, Like I could have married this poor
viral at like beautiful man, but because I was in
love with him, I married your gay father. We both
needed a beard. But honey, you get it right, Like
you saw the mustache. That's very implicit and not it
is not explicit. I'm definitely deciding that that's the case.

(01:04:50):
And and for a movie that takes place in the South,
in race is not touched at all. Oh yes, it
is a lot of strap. Actor of color got an
extra day. Right, that's super nice. Yeah, there's a whole
lot of background characters, and there are the only people
of color who have lines are the help. One of
the lines is I would be happy to pack your bags.

(01:05:12):
And that are the only person of color that I
know is who actually had a name. Was it was
the servant in the house in the forties. So that's
the only person of color with a name. Because there
are two nurses that we see in the forward scenes
with the old people over and over, there two women
of color who worked the nursing horme horm that sounds

(01:05:34):
like he would seem worse than using home. Oh boy,
it's infectious, table basset, the whole Todd Lake can's beach.
But there, uh, we see and we see these two
characters for a lot of the movie. We see them
in almost every scene that the old people are in.
Never find out their names, nothing, nothing, And it's just

(01:05:54):
it's that's just like careless, stupid, right, that's why it
doesn't us the Bechtel test. Let's get one last thing
I wanted to say is that, um, we've got some
other tests to address. I wanted to just say that, um,
as it relates to the character the people of color. Oh,
hand over, baby, someone's got Bacton. Give it up for

(01:06:20):
our first Bengo winner. Congratulations Betel Bengoway. What else do
we have to talk about? So I wanted to finish
my point about so the people of color in the movie.
We were talking about the Bechtel tests, also the DuVernay test,
which requires that people of color in the movie can't
just be supporting the white characters in the movie. They

(01:06:40):
have to have their own realized lives and stories and
back stories and everything like that. So this movie doesn't
every person of color is literally seen serving a white person.
There is not, although we do see apparently I uh,
Noah and his father have several black friends, because there's
that scene where they're all dancing together. I don't It's like,
I mean, we don't really don't know anything about them,

(01:07:03):
and they're they don't have any lines. That's also just
used to imply like those rich snobs, they they buy
the black people, we play spoons with them. There's like,
we would be remiss to not say that. Several times
in the movie, James Marsden owns a cotton plantation, and
you know, and everyone's like Oh cool, he's successful and

(01:07:25):
it's like he's racist. There's no way around it. Okay,
back to the Bechtel test. By the Bechtel cast version,
it technically does, but you had a compelling argent. So
I think that because we were talking about this before,
and I think it. I think you had a really
good point that it does come to a matter of
subtext where our version of the Bechtel test requires two

(01:07:48):
female identifying characters with names talking about something other than
a man for two lines of dialect. But that gets
and so so basically it's safe to say get tricky
if you're at the point where it's that bar, if
you're squeezing something under it, it doesn't fit. Okay, I
because of the scene we were talking about. The subtext

(01:08:10):
is so this scene that you could even use to
suggest between Ali and her mom right after Ali and
no Uh are out late, trying to fuck doesn't work out.
So then her parents freak out because she's out late,
and then they say we're leaving tomorrow and you're going
to college. Great normal reaction. We're vacating the mansion because

(01:08:34):
you got fingered one time. Very chill. So we see
the scene with her and her mom the next day,
and they do have several lines. I do have the
actual lines dies it's in your novella. It's basically something
to the effective. She's seen like cars getting packed up
and she was like, what's going on? And her mom's like,

(01:08:55):
we're leaving, and she's like, we're leaving now. She's like, yes,
sit down and have some breakfast. Then Willow, I think
it is we'll pack up your things. So that's where
the argument comes in, is like they are not explicitly
saying we're leaving now because you got fingered in a
haunted house last night by a guy. But I do

(01:09:15):
I do agree that that is the subtext of like,
that's what's driving this whole scene, is the you know,
I would even like, I don't know if it's subtext
because to me, Alie's response it's like of like I'm
not going anywhere, is like not because I like the
seaside like I'm not leaving, like have you smelled this
coastal air? It's because she wants she didn't get the

(01:09:35):
sled down the pole. She wants to get another shot.
But it The only other scenes with women who talk
to each other are in the retirement home and it
is uh, none of those nurses have names. None of
those scenes are more than two lines anyway, with Joan Allen,
Rachel the Cabs and Gina rollings in it. And you
can't find a conversation for any of those actors that

(01:09:57):
those actors could read the back of a Cheerios box,
and I would right, well, okay, so I have a
few more scenes that could pass, or they have women characters.
And Ali talks to her friend Sarah a couple of
different times, and one of the scenes, Sarah is telling
Ali about Noah does not pass. God. That seems so
annoying too, because Ali is like, isn't it so weird

(01:10:18):
how he just threw him off at me? And she's like, no,
that's like later on, whenever Noah shows up to the
surprise date that he has orchestrated, Sarah goes, you remember Noah,
don't you? And she's like, it doesn't pass. They talk
about I mean a scene later on when they're like
playing in a body of water birds. No bird birds

(01:10:41):
are not present here. Um, there's there's a rope that
they're all swinging from. Oh God, that scene is terrible.
Sarah is like get in the water and she's like,
I can't. Maybe passes. That is honestly the closest one yet,
but I forgot about that scene Ryan Gosling, She's afraid
to do muff the rope swing and Ryan Castling is
just on the side like do it, go for it,

(01:11:04):
get do it, go for it, baby, just try it, honey,
you left. Get out the fucking water, I mean, drump baby.
Other scenes where women interactor. Other scenes where women interact.
Um Ali is chatting with her college friends about James Marsden.

(01:11:26):
We do not know any other names, and they're talking
about a man. Ali is in a group of women
at her wedding dress fitting their squealing about the dress
and the wedding but we do not know any of
their names out and she's on the top half of
the newspaper and then it flops down in port elis
under the fold with the picture of poor man renovates

(01:11:47):
haunted house. It's like rich girl getting married, poor boy
does something. Question. Another another contender for passing the Bacte
test is when old Ali meets all of her female relatives.
Obviously they know she is, but she doesn't know who
they are. It's all his like, those are the kids

(01:12:08):
that they made in their relationship. I don't think like
what's your name again counts when they're the literal if
it was a character like someone else's family. IBE. That's
me stretching, but like reintroducing yourself to your kids when
you have dementia and your husband is right there, it's
still kind of about your relationship in that case. And

(01:12:29):
also I like, I think that God and I hate
that we have to get so into the weeds of
like what is a past? But the fact that even
if the daughters in that scene do have names, which
they believe they do, it some they don't. She doesn't
know their names, so it can't pass if at least
the women talking don't even know each other's name. So

(01:12:52):
that I was like, that can't I think that's very
ablest of you. But those kids only come in to
be like dad, stop taking care of Mom, so they
also only talk about their relationship. And also what hateful children?
So we hate don't you hate how dad loves mom?
I know they're terrible. I will say I'll give this

(01:13:14):
movie credit as a film. It is very focused on
telling one story that although we've criticized it's negative aspects,
is very beautiful. It's a love story over the overtime,
and it's it is just about the relationship of these
two people. And in the movie, no one talks about
anything else. So it's a weird movie to apply the
test too, because no one has a conversation about anything else.

(01:13:35):
It's not like two women in the movie would have
an opportunity to be like, did you admire this silverspoon?
It's detail is quite exceptional. They talk about nothing except
for whether Ali and now we're gonna sunk forever. That
is the sole focus of the film, an accomplishment in storytelling.
It is a very focused, well crafted story with not
a lot of fat to trim. Again, that scene with
Martha after Ali shows up and war Widow comes cruising

(01:13:57):
in knock knockdock, I brought you a pie. Wink winkly
opens the door and it's like, come on in, let's chat.
And again the next scene is like it's dark out.
They just YadA, YadA through all that conversation. They don't
talk about anything that isn't just the two of them.
With that scene pass the backtel test, though he's right
there and the context of their conversation is like, we
both have kissed the same man. Sisters, let's take bread

(01:14:20):
or whatever. Oh wait, oh, the bingo board has reminded
me of something I wanted to talk that this movie. Originally,
the Steve Bushemy test is basically just a framework that
makes it so that because Ryan Gosling is the one,

(01:14:41):
you know, Ryan Gosling, notorious Hollywood hunk, is the one
displaying all the predatory behavior at the beginning of this movie,
we're conditioned by movies to think that because he's so hot,
it's okay. So the idea being if we sub out
Gosling with Bushemy or just someone not considered Hollywood hot,

(01:15:04):
it immediately registers as not okay. Where if bush Emmy
shows up in the rain saying I wrote you every
day for a year, you call the cops and it's like,
not a question. So that's that's what that's what that is. Yeah, Yeah,
that's alarmingly true in this film. Yeah, if you subot

(01:15:24):
it flies because they're like both hotties, anyone who's not
right if you and if you sub ut Rachel McAdams
with someone who's not alarmingly hot and she's just hitting
Ryan Gosling. You're like, no, this is but I feel like,
especially when this movie came out, probably that behavior on
her part barely registered. It didn't register for me at all.
I forgot that she was hitting him all the time

(01:15:46):
they were teenagers. You know, I just accurred to me,
what's kind of beautiful about being unconventionally attractive is that
even if you're rich. Report if you fell in love
at seventeen as an if you're a bush Emmy and
a lady bush Emmy and you eat each other, oh yeah,
deeply love and you come back to your mother and
father like tooth jutting out over your lower lip. No,

(01:16:08):
his hair visible, whatever your problems are, Like, daddy, I
found love like you don't. Yeah, congratulations, we don't give
a ship. If he works at the lumber yard. This
is the best. He's a rock hormp on his back.
He's just got like you know, he's bald but wrong.
It's just on the sides and not on the top
like you know, just like whatever, I'm so glad you

(01:16:29):
love our beaver tooth daughter. Congratulations. I'm gonna buy you
that mansion and restore with your huge hands. I do
want to pitch to our certainly all industry audience. UH
My new film Lady bush Emmy, directed by Credit coming
of It's a companion to my famous uh Tony Dance,

(01:16:53):
A biopic Tony also coming out in the coming year,
so check out. I'm gonna take these movies led by
women and replace them by man. I do want to
see Tony Dance land a triple axel, Tony spot haircut.
Everything else is the same, but it's Tony Dancing. Shall

(01:17:15):
we rate the movie on our nipple scale? So we
have a nipple scale, will rewrite the movie based on
its portrayal of women a zero to five nipples. This
is gonna be tricky for me because, aside from the
first fifteen minutes, which are very problematic and very irresponsible
in the way that they depict like a budding romance,
the rest of the movie I don't think does that

(01:17:37):
badly in depicting a romance. I think I want to
give it two and a half nipples. I mean between
like the like noticeable lack of toxic masculinity. Again, aside
from the first fifteen minutes in the movie, the way
that you depict Noah in his dad relationship and other

(01:17:57):
male characters. I mean, why am I giving credit to them?
This is not what this podcast is about. I guess
Ali is a character I appreciate. She's generally pretty well developed.
I think, um, she doesn't fall into a lot of
tropes that you see in romantic stories. Some of them, yes,

(01:18:19):
but overall, I think she's like pretty dynamic. I mean,
she's one of two main characters. She's helping to drive
the story, she's making choices, she has agency. But you know,
the movie is not perfect for all the reasons. So
we've already discussed. So Yeah, I'm gonna two and a
half nipples. One of them goes to Ryan Gosling's nipple
that is exposed in the movie. That is the only
nipp we get right. One of them I'm going to

(01:18:42):
give to Fabrizio from Titanic. Uh. And the half nipple
I'll give to gay Mustache Daddy's mustache sick. Yeah, let's
give a mustache. That's actually very forward thinking of you.
I would accept a glass of milk from the mustache netball. Yeah,

(01:19:03):
I'll give it two and a half as well, for
all the reasons you stated, I think that the other
female characters we see in this movie, even the ones
that are better developed, like Ali's mom and like Martha,
are really I mean, and again it's kind of like
what you're saying, Caitlin Gil that it is because it's
just such a focused story that there's not really a

(01:19:25):
b plot at all. The b plot is the main
characters but older like Finn, who's there to set him
up on a date once, and then Diana war Let's
the entire that was his entire orbit to pretty embarrassing
set people up on a date one time later killed
in World War two. Uh. But like, I think that

(01:19:48):
there's little things this movie and the story could have
done more to better services female characters, such as not
having the best friend only say like you shouldn't go
with that guy who is threatening to kill himself if
you don't go on a date with him. The mom beat,
even though I didn't totally dislike that scene where it's like,
at least we get a scene understanding where the mom's

(01:20:09):
coming from and she's not just totally villainized, but the
fact that it was just like I sucked a poor
person ones to a big mistake, but what a great
dick like there that this is weird and I also
really don't like how the women of color in this
movie are treated where there, I mean, every woman of
color in this film is in a service position and

(01:20:30):
only one of them is given a name, and that
is annoying, especially considering that this movie takes place in
the South, and it's just like it's just this weird,
bizarre blind spot where it's okay, like it's like this
movie doesn't have to be about race, but it's like,
you know, give your characters a name, give them something
to do, give them, you know. So for for that reason,

(01:20:51):
I'm gonna give it two and a half and give
one nipple to Alley because I do like her. She
goes on a you know journey. She for a rich girl.
I don't want to killer, I guess. So that's good,
that's honestly, that's true. That is a solid point. One
nipple to Ali. I'll give one nipple to James Marsden,
who like feminist icon James Marsden in this movie, and

(01:21:15):
then I will give a half nipple to the wonderful
nurse who's constantly restraining old dementia Ali, whose name we
never get to learn, even though she has to discover
them dead not fair anyways. So that's those are who
I give my nipples to come with you. I'm gonna
give it to because I am frustrated by something I

(01:21:38):
didn't see but felt implied, and you had such great
actresses there would I like to feel this totally in
the movie even two in two thousand four. So much
of Ali's choice in the film is between you know,
her heart and her common sense, sort of like, she
has this uncertain but passionate relationship with this guy who
built a house for her and a very steady relationship
with a guy who's literally named lon uh Like. By

(01:22:01):
the time she has to make that choice, I as
a film watcher, only feel the tension of those two relationships,
when in reality that character is in a much like
a larger context of her family and then the context
of the stupid world we live in, where a lot
of her choices aren't about her harder her head. It
is circumstance that, like Allie's parents do have a complicated

(01:22:24):
choice to make. Realistically, they're not crazy for thinking their
daughters shouldn't be in this impulsive romance, both for circumstance
and other reasons, and her mom, especially like waiting until
that scene where mom takes daughter to go look at
the dude she used to fuck, to reveal like the
complexities of the heart there These are women trapped by
choices that aren't made by the men that they're in

(01:22:45):
relationships with. Like everyone is kind of stuck here, Gay Mustache,
Daddie campy out he asked to marry Joan Allen, Like
everybody's got a circumstance binding them. And I wish when
it got to Alie's choice between these two boys that
she gets to funk forever or whatever. I wish I
didn't feel any of that weight. There's no greater social
Like you know, he yells at her, like forget what

(01:23:05):
other people want? What do you want? And we're supposed
to think that's romantic, But like, like I guess the
answer comes into a book about feminism in the sixties.
Like what she wants is to not have her only
choices be which guy to marry. Like what's not on
the table is like going to college, not to find
a husband, but like maybe learn something you want to do.

(01:23:25):
What's not on the table is like wearing pants, Like,
you know, there's so many things she doesn't get to do.
I'm pretty sure she majors in English too, because the
one scene we see her in college, the professor is
talking about Walt Whitman. Hey, do you think Nicholas Sparks
likes Walt Whitman. I wonder. I feel like Nicholas Sparks
and like Mitch Album have this time share together where

(01:23:47):
they just like jerk off for like a week every year,
and at the end they're like, it's a book. We
did it, the five notebook. The five notebooks, you mean,
and so those are I I wish that that there
had been a little bit more influence to that greater choice,
because it better understands Mom's choice to hide the letters

(01:24:10):
and not marry the hunk. Like for such a closed story,
I wish a little bit more of the world had
pushed its way in, because I think that's that would
have made this character of Adlie more real, and Rachel
McAdams is certainly capable of giving you a character with
more sales. Joan Allen, there was just something missing from
the women because all their choices were only about men,
and I guess that's implied. Yeah, they don't get to

(01:24:31):
make choices about anything else. There's no pain from that.
There's no weight from that in the film, and are
literally birds flying away like so it's hard. I those
are That's why I can't give it that extra half nipple.
And that's why even though I love love and I
think it's beautiful that you want to be in love forever,
and I think love is hard work and relationships are tough.
And it takes two devoted people who are passionate not
just about each other but about their relationship to actually

(01:24:51):
die in a hospital gurney together like that's really beautiful.
And I said, don't think it's crazy for women and
men to want that. I'm not inherent like monomies whatever.
But if it's what you want, do it. Do it
for real? Do it like that, be birds together. But
there's so much more that goes into that choice, especially
in those circumstances for that character. So two nipples and

(01:25:11):
they go on either side of the ferris wheel, beautiful
symmetry and and to the but I think that that
is also possibly because it is a love story written
by a man, that those that those points aren't addressed.
It's like, uh, And the point of view character is
Ryan Gosling. He's pretty much the protagonist this old time

(01:25:34):
I was arguing. I was like, Oh, is Ryan Gosling
man splaining Rachel McAdams's own life story to her the
whole movie? But I thought it was her. Nope, bug
the story that we talked about, where you just mastered
her handwriting and wrote the whole thing, and then you
were an idiot. You yelled at me, But I stuck
with you anyway, and forgetful old late it's like the

(01:25:54):
end of that love Rachel mcado. There's the same where
he's looking through a photo album of like their life together,
and it's pictures of young James Garner instead of Ryan
Gosling and Rachel mc adams. It's nothing like Rachel McAdams.
I'm like, like Michael Jackson, black and white fade out

(01:26:15):
of their faces, becoming one, like this is another thing
stolen from Titanic. The Titanic at least tries to photos
shop this real, real hack job in the notebook of
two people we've never seen before, and then he's just like, oh,
this is nice, Like who are these people? I do
feel like that's fan service for all the grandma's watching
it with a thirteen year old on t and t
you've been the whole time, like they've had to watch

(01:26:36):
James Garner. They're sex symbol there, Ryan Gosling in an
old folks home taking his button down off to be
in the doctor and this wife beater and he's got
this like, oh, at one point, I'll make this very quickly.
I'm glad old people got to be sexy in this movie.
Sexy old people. I think sex when year old is passionate,
beautiful and so great. And I hate it when movies
act like it's gross. And I thought that was really
sweetly handled. She wakes up from her dementially dance for

(01:26:57):
a minute. It's fair romantic. I like giving little people
credit that they the rock hard because they boned down.
Where the places where vinegregal diseases are spreading the fastest
is nursing homes. Yeah, my grandma is was the horny
cheefe rests ground, horny ist American woman I've ever met
in my life. Hey, thanks for coming to our show.

(01:27:23):
Thank you Caitlyn gil for being our guest. Thank you
Caitlin and Jamie for having me. Thanks for coming, and
good sail.

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