The Santa Clause 2 with Grace Freud

Jamie and Caitlin discover a new clause of the Bechdel Cast that requires them to release episodes until the end of time, including this one on The Santa Clause 2 with special guest Grace Freud.

This episode contains spoilers)

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the Dog Cast, the questions asked if movies have
women in um, are all their discussions just boyfriends and
husbands or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef in
best start changing it with the Bell Cast. Caitlin, Yes, Jamie,
do you know how we have a podcast? Yeah? And

(00:22):
if we don't release an episode every single week, will die. Yes,
well there's another rule. There's another rule. What what is
the new rule? We have to have sex with each
other by midnight or the podcast will explood. I mean fine, Look,
I've got a magnifying glass. Do you want to You

(00:42):
can read it? Okay? Oh wow, yeah, I see it.
The fine print is right there. Will you marry me? Yes?
Or no? Yes? No pressure? But Christmas will die and
children will hate each other if you don't do it. Okay, fine,
So why don't you do it? Why don't you say yes?
Imagine that like when Jesus went back up to heaven.

(01:06):
You know, he had a lot of free time on
his hands. So I'm listening. God was like, all right, well,
Christmas is your deal, you know, like whatever you want
to do with it, feel free, Like all of this
mythology and ship and all these different holidays and ship

(01:27):
and so that like in my mind, the Santa Claus
tri the g is a biblical epic that its origin
it was carved out by Jesus Christ himself so that
he would have something to do up in heaven. Yeah,
who decides what the Santa Claus is much less the

(01:50):
Santa Claus the other ones. These clauses were written by him.
These clauses were capital by the lamb, by Jesus Christ himself.
Does that also apply to the escape clause? Certainly yes,
And because like Jesus, it's not really this is it's

(02:14):
why Christmas is so secular. It's because Jesus whole life
is being Jesus. So when he was when he approaches Christmas,
he's like, I want to have some fun with it.
So that's why you have the escape clause and the
MRS clause, etcetera, ETCeteras. It's all right, we're starting to depressing,

(02:38):
so it's the last one. This is Look, we're going
out on top, which is I mean, what's the point
of continuing after we're we run out of Santa Claus movies.
I honestly, I was getting sad as I was preparing
for this episode because I was like, damn, what are
we going to do next December? We're out? I haven't.
I do have an idea. I want to do all

(02:58):
the Rank and Bath specials at once, Ranking Bass like
claimation specials, an episode that's about all of them. Wow,
like heat mis or snow Mies or Santa Claus is
coming to town. There's a gnarly Ranking Bass special about

(03:19):
the Easter Bunny that involves like, yeah, like royal intrigue
and like the royal family is trying to kill the
Easter Bunny. Is pretty wild. My favorite one is Jack Frost,
which is Ranking Bass like truly strong rebuttal of the
of communism, must put our put down. We need to

(03:44):
make a claimation special about why the Soviet Union is
a threat. I mean, okay, maybe we can't cover them
all in one, because there's that's that's adicious. And there's
also the not very much seen Little Drummer Boy too,
which is about market economies and barter. Really, yes, Chris,

(04:07):
how do you know this are? You may be the
only person who's ever watched these. It was I was
alone a lot as a kid. That's if you have
any question about me, usually the answer is I was
alone a lot when I was a kid. Sorry, Grace
and I were actually just catching up. We were supposed

(04:30):
to get dinner before she left town and we were
we both got busy, so we're just kind of catching
up right now. So the Santa Claus too, Okay, so
I let's go. Let's let's take it back a little
bit and say that I nailed the introduction and I
think that I brought Je killed the introduction, thank you
so much. And I don't think I've been introduced yet

(04:50):
even Okay, So let's do that and then we introduced
the show, and then we'll do other stuff. Okay, So
we're doing an episode on Santa Claus to. Our guest
is comedian writer. You remember her from our episodes on
The Santa Claus and The Santa Claus three, and now
it's time for the Santa Claus to It's Grace Freud. Hello,

(05:13):
and welcome back, Welcome back. It's great to be here. Now,
can we just recap really quickly why we went one
three too? I know the answer, but I just want
to make sure our listeners in case we have listeners
that have come in the past year. Grace has I
would say if you haven't listened to the first two
Santa Claus episodes, maybe stop this episode stopping back because

(05:38):
we've we we covered it in a very particular order
based on how much they interested us, and so we
went one three too, and this is the last one
available for now. I really hope that we get to see.
Two hours ago, I literally texted up yeah, both my
managers and also the most famous person who was a

(06:01):
friend of mine, and was like, let's make a new
the Santa Claus. What do you say? I really want
to make a few of the Santa Claus. It seems
like a safe bet, and I think we're going to
make it happen. Let's see if Eric Lloyd is available,
you know, is he that It seems like maybe he's retired,
but would he come back to play uh thirty seven
year old Charlie. Let's see, Let's just see. Let's hope.

(06:25):
So yeah, Okay, So the show that we're doing is
called The Bechtel Cast and its movie podcast where we
where we analyze movies through an intersectional feminist lens. We've
been doing what we've been doing it. I don't I
think we should just skip what the Bechtels Test is
we're short on time here today. This doesn't pass it right.

(06:49):
Let's they don't even need to know what it is.
Watched through it twice and it does. So we're just
going to kind of gloss over what the show is.
Because here's what you're gonna do. You're gonna go back
and listen to the other episodes and then you'll learn
you'll find out it's you need to Mrs clauses to
talk to each other about the only female elf who
works at the North Pole for two lines of dialogue

(07:11):
and they both have to be named Mrs Claws and
that doesn't happen in this movie. And it's there. There
is so many it's so like this one is like, wow,
Scott is like there are so many daddy plotlines in
this movie, and Scott's the daddy every single time, so
many people's daddies. He really is, He's really gosh like

(07:33):
he's even like Neil's daddy. When do you think about it. Yeah,
this movie has such like interesting sequel energy where it's like, oh,
all these like pretty well developed characters from the first movie,
now it's eight years later and they're parodies of themselves
and some of them are not the same person anymore.
This movie has inside of it the perfect Christmas movie,

(07:59):
but it really like, in a weird way, the Santa
Claus sequels kind of try to like emssy you themselves,
Like they like pull in all of these other like
mythological figures. They're like, here's a bunch of cannon that
we're going to spew at you, the whole council of
legendary figures. Yeah, exactly. They lean into the small magical

(08:24):
parts of the first movie, which which really were kind
of just sprinkled on and made the film beautiful and magical,
but then they leaned into it so hard that all
of a sudden, the North Pole has the fucking like blackwater. Yeah,
you know, like their own military. They militarized the North Pole,

(08:51):
and Santa Claus the news that he like self identifies
as a despot multiple times. It was I was like, oh,
this is the fascist Santa Clause. The Santa Clause, to
you is maybe the most important work of art for

(09:14):
understanding what nine eleven did to America. I honestly don't
think you're very far off there at all, because you're
just like, why did you what happened between and two
thousand and two, because this came out okay, so so
for the audience, this came out Christmas season two thousand

(09:36):
and two. So I don't know. I mean, let's see
when it was shot. Um, I'm not quite sure. Oh
it was this. It was supposed to be. Okay, this
is interesting. I don't have an inside look. I have
two sentences on Wikipedia, but I'm going to run with this.
It was supposed to come out on November one, two
thousand one, was postponed until two thousand and two. Wonder

(10:02):
what changed, if anything, in the movie between you know,
when it was made pre nine eleven, in two one
and two, when there's a despot that needs to be
overthrown and there's a heavily militarized you know, Nutcracker army,
and there's at the end of the day, all I
care about is is David Krumholtz there? And am I

(10:25):
still in love with him? And it's yes, and yes
he's still there, but not quite enough. No, he's a prisoner,
he's a pow in this one. They make David Krumholtz
a p o W in the Santa Claus too. I
would say, you know what, I'm gonna lay it on
wine and say probably fifty percent of the movie change,

(10:49):
I mean a big change. I noticed was speaking of
David Krumholtz. His wig is no longer white guy with dreads.
It's now just tight curls, yes, yes, tressing, and I
think that's a big improvement. He still looks good. Someone
talked like someone talked to the Alps had to get

(11:09):
a sensitivity training. There's a there. I was talking to something.
Did did you see that? Ashley Ray tweet about about
how Bernard the Elf was like a formative sexual experience
experience for like a large swath of yes. Yeah, Well,
I really do think Bernard the Elf transcends gender, Like

(11:31):
I don't think that that is a non binary character
on screen, And I think just that in and of
itself makes you ask questions of like, well, if it's
not a binary, then what does it mean to like

(11:52):
someone who isn't going to fit into that? And that's
where Bernard comes in. I like that. Um okay, so
real quick, Grace, what's your relationship with this particular movie
and the franchise as a whole. I believe that this
movie is the last movie I saw with my dad

(12:13):
before he died. I said this before, but I think
it was it was this one. This is yes, Uh,
my dad died in two thousand three. Wait a second,
wait when did this movie come out? So that does
Christmas season two thous Oh you know, I don't know. No, No,

(12:38):
it wasn't it was. I saw this with his brother,
my uncle Mark, and I think he was there. In
my mind, he's there, But that doesn't quite add up
timeline wise. Okay, I'm so sorry if I just messed
with the mythology as fans absolutely perably added it up

(13:05):
in my head before. I mean, my dad died so
like really, not that you couldn't do something worse to me,
but but at some point being this movie came out
at a very tumultuous time of my life, and I
do remember seeing it and thinking, oh, you know, maybe

(13:28):
my dad just needs a wife. I guess we'll never
know if, like my dad would still be alive today
if he had simply gotten a wife by Christmas Day.
It makes you think. It makes you think. So you
have a very interesting relationship with this movie, is what

(13:50):
you're saying. I mean, And yeah, and hopefully everyone has
listened through the first five hours of information we have
on this franchise on this podcast, Jamie, what about you?
What's your relationship? Oh? I remember seeing this movie in theaters.
I remember being like, wow, Charlie's bad now huh oh,

(14:13):
Charlie's bad. Oh. He's putting a big old red circle
with a line through it over Christmas tree. That robbed me.
I was so shocked. I remember being him a theater
and being like, Charlie, what, no, what are you doing?
He's the cutiest cutie pot and he's so I mean,
it's like this movie did come about eight years later. So,

(14:36):
but for a kid that was watching the Santa Claus
every year, very jarring to see Charlie b preteen bad
boy about to give a girl a kiss because she's
like sometimes it feels good to be bad, and you're like, whoa, okay,
So that is um. I mainly remember this. I mean also,
I just remember there were so many movies in this
specific era, like all the time, but in this era

(14:58):
there were a lot of Disney movie these with this
premise where it's like kind of like the Beautiful Perfect
intro I did, where it's like, if Santa doesn't get
married at midnight, we're going to cut his head off,
and you're all fucked like this say this similar premise
was in The Princess Diaries too, that came out I
think a couple of years after this, where it's like,

(15:19):
she's not going to be royal anymore unless she gets
married tomorrow, so what's she gonna do? Huh? And then
that's the whole movie. Um, And this is kind of
a more militarized version of that story at the North Pole.
I don't know why these movies came out within two
years of each other. I don't know why these steaks
are so it's so weird because it's like these these

(15:40):
are steaks that are associated with like times where women
were considered property and not like middle school principles, but
this movie overlooks that and they're like, well why not both?
Why why not both? Yeah? Fuck, it's fucking weird, Like

(16:03):
it's truly fucked up. I think it would be significantly
less fucked up if the ending was slightly different. But
the way that he presents, the way that he convinces, well,
what we can get to that later, we can that
proposal is oh my god, we wratch it. And it

(16:30):
takes something that like, yeah, we can analyze it by
like you need a woman, as if you need like
like a house or something, and like as if like
a piece of property. But before that, I think that
like it's it does come off as in general like
kind of sweet, Oh, this is a cool little rom com,

(16:52):
and then that happens, and it's like, Jesus Christ, Santa,
what did you do? It's very scary, Like at the
very end, there has to be some way to navigate
around this clock like get a lawyer, Santa. There has
to be a way around this. You don't need to
put the literal weight of the world like and I

(17:13):
like how they I don't like, but like they try
to frame it as a joke. They're like, ha ha,
no pressure, but all the joy in the world will
disappear unless you marry me, all right now, And she's like,
well can I? And then the way the girl bought
this character is honestly ahead of its time. What's your
relationship to it? Sorry? Yes, yes, I had never seen

(17:37):
this one. I grew up with the first Santa Claus
movie and I watched it a ton as a kid,
but by the time this one came out, I had
aged out of this type of movie. So I didn't
see the second or third Santa Claus movie until prepping
for last year's episode that we did on Santa Claus three.
You never saw the marriage at gunpoint Santa No, I did, so.

(18:00):
My My history with this installment in the franchise is
quite brief. But let's talk about it. Um, let's talk
about it. This is the hereditary of Santa Claus movies.
I will say, I do like as horrifying as it is,
I do feel like I got a little bit of

(18:20):
nostalgia that I that I'm dubious about. But I was like, Wow,
there's a lot of body horror in this film franchise.
I feel like, you don't. You don't get that kind
of body horror in children's media today, although maybe I'm
just not watching enough and they are doing very scary things. Well,
Paddington certainly doesn't have any body horror. I'll tell you

(18:43):
that right now. Um, let's take a quick break and
then we will come back for the recap and back. Okay,
I'm going to try to get through this as quickly
as possible. Good, here we go. Okay, So Santa Claus

(19:07):
two opens with a plane flying over the North Pole
and almost detecting Santa's workshop with their like radar or whatever.
So Santa Claus ak Tim Allen, all of this infinite
magic cannot block an oil planes ar like beautiful magic

(19:30):
cannot do the same as soundproofing, you know, like I
guess they should have put some foam, just put a
jacket over the North Pole and that probably when yeah,
does not add up. But Santa Claus and Bernard and
several other of the ELF employees have to go to

(19:51):
ELF Con one. And during this we meet Curtis. Okay,
that's Spencer Breslin, ELF Cohn one. Like pump the brakes,
there's an alf Cahn one. Because it's it's the winter
of two thousand and two and everyone is in a
very negative place on these issues, and let us let

(20:12):
us recognize for a moment that alf Khan one is normal.
That is what they are at in times of peace.
Because at the end of this sequence, Santa goes, let's
go back to alf Kahn one. They are always on
a light. They are always prepared and in fear of

(20:37):
the specter of a terrorist attack on the North Pole.
And not only that, but Santa multiple times references military strategy,
which suggests to me that Tim Allen Santa Claus is
a well right military general. Now I'm okay, So now

(20:58):
I I I recall that in the Santa Claus one
there is a hint at militarized Elves. I believe that
there's an ELF. It's like a CIA or FBI kind
of thing. So there's like not no precedent for this. Well,
it's as special forces. I think it comes off more
as like as like a swat team almost, you know, yes, yes, yes,

(21:23):
but it's fun. The difference there is it's goofy, you know,
it plays more like power rangers and less like the
US military. And the scale feels much smaller than ELF
Khan one. Yeah, it's like it's like five elves. It's
a small operation. Not not saying it's the best thing

(21:44):
in the world, but ELF Cohn one is definitely an
escalation from militarized elves. But at the same time, this
is all an aesthetic thing because Sudden Santa is in
military garm with with a special military hat with metals
and shouting out orders and they go all the they

(22:06):
eventually go up all the way to ELFCN for but nothing.
They don't do anything. They do nothing but tell people
to be quiet. They don't launch missiles or anything. It's
a waste of taxpayers money. It really waste of taxpayers money.
It's a waste of health tax fair money. What's also

(22:27):
wild about this is that this has nothing to do
with the rest of the plot of the movie. Yeah,
it's like Santa needs to get married. That's shitty, but
that's enough to do the movie. You don't need to
add a war. Like if anything, it's softens the b
plot of the film, which is this toy Santa that
militarizes the North Pole. It's like, you see that happen,

(22:51):
and you're like, what do you mean? Like that already happened,
Like we already saw the real Santa bring it all
the way up to of con four. In this scenario,
the real Santa is Barack Obama and the toy Santa
is um George W. Bush. Like Barack Obama still did

(23:13):
a lot of drone strikes, you know, but when he
came into office, people were like, all right, it's chill.
The wars are going to be good now, you know. Right,
And then we go to and then that carries through
to the Santa Claus three, which you can pause this
episode right now and go back, and Frost is Donald
Trump exactly exactly. Wow. I'm also realizing that Spencer Breslyn

(23:38):
was also in The Princess Diaries to meaning that he's
really um kind of a popular choice for this exact premise.
If this premise is happening on the big screen and
there's a forced there's an arranged forced marriage happening on screen,
you gotta get this kid around to get Spencer, And yeah, really,
there wasn't an era, there was a Spencer Breslyn era.

(24:01):
So Spencer bres plays Curtis, who is an elf, and
then we see Santa playing a game of football with
the elves. Basically everyone is having fun, except there's one
little thing where Curtis and Bernard have something that they
need to tell Santa very soon. We'll put a pin
in that. Meanwhile, Santa's son Charlie, who is now a

(24:25):
teenager dar kind of a rebel. Don't you not love
the I've hope it was written for the movie. Whatever
the funk that song is When he's doing his little
graffiti where it's like I've been a knot, I don't
deserve a toy like it was like fat Boy Christmas.
It was so funny. It's like they just they gave

(24:48):
someone's uncle five d bucks. You're like, go off, King,
he's been a naughty boy. It's just you and your
guitar man. Just fuck and do what you need to do. Dude.
I love bad boy Charlie. He's such a good graffiti artist.
He's so talented. Get this kid in art class. Direct

(25:11):
this energy. He's spray painting on a wall at school
to impress a girl and also like call out the
principle for hating Christmas, pro Christmas and everything that happen.

(25:31):
Jarley's continually eats in trouble for spray painting pro Christmas
messages for half of school. It's very funny, and he
gets caught by the school principal, Principal Newman. So then
back at the North Pole, Santa finds out that not
only is his son Charlie on the naughty list for

(25:53):
getting in trouble at school, but also there's another Santa
clause with an E. There's an another legally binding clause
that says miss Clause. Little Spencer Breslin really has to
do a lot of heavy lifting exposition wise in this scene,
because the line they give him is so funny. He's like,

(26:14):
I know there's a Santa Claus, but guess what, there's
another Santa Claus. And I'm sorry, and I should have
let you read it, but I didn't have a big
enough magnifying glass. Here I have five magnifying glasses and
now you can read it. And that's the movie. And
like he has to say all of this in like
one breath, but he doesn't. And then after he's after
Santa's looked at the closet, found out he needs to

(26:36):
marry a woman. It's also specifies a woman, very very clearly.
It does not say just Mary. It says you need
to pick a woman and then Mary are And that's
on Jesus Christ for writing that down, on Jesus Christ
for writing I would also know nowhere in that clause

(26:58):
isn't specified they have to love each other correct, which
is which me is almost not very Christmas Eve, Like
you know, like you would think that like true love.
You know, it would be like an important power, like
a little engine of Christmas cheers. Wow, that didn't even
occur to me. But but that's not what it's about.

(27:20):
What it's about is is the marriage. And then after that,
Spencer again is given the acting challenge of his life
and he goes big, maybe too big, I don't know
if it quite works, and goes kudos to him, and
he goes like the decanification process has be gone. Yes,
And it almost takes me out of the movie to

(27:41):
tell you he goes that pig, but he really does
illustrate the steaks certainly so to provide the context here,
Santa has to find a woman and get married to her,
and if he doesn't do that by Christmas Eve, which
is only twenty days away, he will ceased to be Santa,

(28:02):
and as Curtis points out, the decantification process has begun,
where he has started to look less and less like
Santa and more and more like his former self, Scott Kelvin.
Immediately after this, there's a meeting of the Council of
Legendary Figures. We've got Mother Earth, We've got Father Time,

(28:22):
the Easter Bunny, Cupid, Sandman, Tooth Fairy, No Jack Frost.
Jack Frost only pops up in the next movie. It's like,
if I feel like I do feel like that the
Council is better utilized in the third movie and this one,
they're kind of like, I'm thrilled to see them. I
love a good Aisia Tyler performance, but it's like they're

(28:46):
not doing much except with the exception of the tooth Fairy.
Whoever forgot became intimately involved this This scene seems to
only happen because we need to establish that the tooth
Fairy is a person because that's going to pay off later.
So we didn't You didn't actually need that. You could
have just like it wouldn't have blown my mind if

(29:06):
the tooth theory is showed up and I'm like, oh, yeah,
that makes sense. There's like three movies fighting to be
the movie. One of the movies is a rom com.
One of the movies is a grand mythological Christmas movie,
and then another one of the movies is essentially the

(29:29):
Christmas version of Thin Redline. And if it had just
been the rom com, it could have been one of
the best Christmas rom coms. Ever. It still would have
been super dated, but it would have like made sense. Yeah,
it could have been really fun and cool, you know,

(29:49):
like the concept of like they're needing to be a
Mrs Claus, like I think they could have played it
in a way that didn't quite come off as property.
You know, if if they had given themselves that, if
they had taken away from the fascism plot line and
maybe characterized and fleshed out the rom com plot line,
maybe it would have been a little different and change

(30:11):
the wording of Jesus Christ's clause to make it less menacing. Yes,
exactly exactly if Jesus had if the diagetic Jesus of
this universe had been a little more thoughtful he wrote
these pauses, it would have been a better movie. Well,
I mean, I don't know what we're talking about, because

(30:31):
it took five whole men to write this movie, So
I don't know. There's I just think it's I mean,
I know that that's how these movies work, but it
just it is always funny to me to see how
many writers are credited on movies like this, and they're
just like really hard to understand, Like who I'm like, Okay,
So which of these writers, Don Sinko, ken Ed and

(30:52):
John really wanted the fascism plot to happen, Which of
them wanted the rom comp, which of them wanted bad
boy Charlie like I I want plot points attributed so
I know who to avoid in the future. Gosh okay.
So so now Scott ak Santa has to go back
down to Chicago or wherever his family lives to deal

(31:14):
with his son Charlie and to find a wife his wife,
but he also has, you know, santa responsibilities at the
North Pole. So this is when Curtis gets the idea
to use this machine that they have which will make
a toy version of Santa who will run the North
Pole while real Santa goes and does the stuff he

(31:36):
has to do. Right, So Santa takes comment and they
had to Chicago, where Scott link's up with his ex
wife Laura and her husband Neil, and they immediately fall
go said links up, and then after that go and

(32:00):
meet with Principal Newman to talk about Charlie getting into trouble.
And Principal Newman and Scott have met before and they
hate each other because she is a public school educator,
which means that she's evil. Yeah, this hates public schools. Yeah,
like with it with a fiery hatred that only five

(32:21):
rich guys could have committed to the page. But the
I thought it was interesting that it seems like all
of the qualities that we're annoying to Scott about Laura
in the first movie, she no longer has. In this movie,
she her character has basically been like like sapped from
her body, and those qualities now exists. In the principle,

(32:42):
all she does is say, you're a good dad, Scott.
You're a good dad and a better better father, and
a good man and a good Santa. She can't stop
saying what a good father he is, even though he
is largely absent. Like it just like I just thought
was very bizarre, how like her Like it's Neil's character

(33:03):
was turned up to an eleven and her character was
just like disattled it. Yeah there's nothing, Yeah, there's nothing there.
She's only there to say you did nothing wrong, you
are okay. And it's like, did you even see the
first movie, Laura. It's very hard to like talk about,

(33:29):
like really, what was Scott's emotional arc in this It's
like constantly the movie is telling you there's nothing wrong
with him and he did nothing wrong, but he he
still has to do this ship. But he also he
also see it seems like at different points they're implying

(33:49):
like well, part of the reason Charlie's getting in trouble
is because Scott is so absent, which I could conceive it,
but then that kind of goes away and they're like, no, no, no,
Charlie's just acting out because he's in love with Christmas
and he hates that he can't tell everyone that his
dad is Santa. You're like, well, a less interesting problem
to explore. Really, Charlie's arc is is accepting that it's

(34:14):
wrong of him to miss his father, right, Yeah, that's incorrect.
That ending exchange was chilling to me. Between Charlie and
his sister Lucy. Um where he what does he say?
He says, knowing isn't a burden, It's a gift. You're like,

(34:35):
it's it's kind of a burden for you, Charlie, Like,
we got it, God, And the Lucy stuff is a
whole another movie, honest to God, like that, that's that's compete.
Lucy is Charlie's little little sister. She's a big Santa
fn she loves Santa. Yeah. There are several new female

(34:58):
characters introduced in this movie, and there's there's lots to
talk about with all of them. Yes, and the thing
it is like for a movie that is ostensibly about
that's ostensibly that wants to sell it to you as
a romantic comedy about Santa finding his Mrs Clause. The
last ten minutes of the movie don't even have Mrs

(35:20):
Clause in it, Like it's just a whole another deal,
like wrapping up this other threat. And then she appears
in the credit. Ya okay. So back at Laura and
Neil's house, this is when we meet their young daughter, Lucy,
who Santa Slash Scott has a very close relationship with,

(35:43):
and again Santa, who is now looking more and more
like Scott Calvin. He has started to try to meet women.
For example, he goes on a date with Molly Shannon,
who is obsessed with Christmas, but in like a freaky way.
So it doesn't work out. Well. I mean, I'm not
going to complain about that scene being there, because Molly
Shannon is amazing, but huh. And then at the I

(36:06):
liked her. At the end, she's like, oh, you don't
support my music career, Well, you don't support women, And
I was like, yeah, yeah, you're support women if you
don't support me being annoying at a restaurant. That's exactly
what I think is true exactly. It was almost like
that joke, like a joke like making fun of me too,

(36:26):
but like from like ultimately I agree with her. If
you don't support me yelling at a restaurant, you hate women, period,
Like believe women? Are you saying I'm supposed to believe
that woman that thinks so singing voice is good? I
don't think so. I didn't really know where that scene

(36:49):
was going, but always happy to see Molly Shannon. She
kills it. She certainly kills I would say that honestly,
that scene doesn't go far enough, Like I wish they
had really let her unleash herself, you know, but she's
never full on belting, you know, which is disappointing to me.

(37:11):
Maybe in Santa Claus four, we'll bring her back in
my hard Rebootum, she'll be playing an entirely different character.
Good good, good Okay. So meanwhile, up at the North Pole,
Toy Santa is taking the rules too seriously and is
becoming a bit of a tyrant. Basically, he wants all

(37:33):
the kids to be on the naughty list. Then Charlie
gets in trouble at school again, and we're more pro
Christmas Graffiti for doing quite honestly, even better graffiti than
he did the first. Yeah, by the way, it looks professional.

(37:54):
Shout out to whatever production designer was doing that. It
looks great, right, Really, I honestly, watching this, I was like,
am I forgetting that At some point the principle or
someone who's like, listen, Charlie, stop messing around. You're good,
You're really good, but you gotta he got to stop

(38:16):
at this graffiti and start picking up a paintbrush, you know. Also,
I think the graffiti says trim a Trey go to
jail as what it says. That's what the principle is saying,
which is not even clever. I think it's I think
it's very powerful and it's so odd to me that's

(38:36):
such a a Christmas movie that does not mention Jesus once,
that doesn't have a single cross also has a character,
in this case hand to cause himself, Scott Galvit confront
the principal and be like, wired there any Christmas trees
in this school? There any lights and tinsel? And she's

(38:59):
she's very gonna be like, hey, it's a public school.
And he's like, well, gosh, God, God, darted, here's some
money for a read. But she says it's a public school,
therefore we don't have the funding for Christmas decorations. Not
it's a public school because separation of church and state,

(39:20):
like she cites the wrong reason and not for nothing,
but like, I mean, my experience in public school was
that there was a lot of holiday stuff. Like I
did not find that to be washed out, I mean,
and to the point where maybe it was warranted to
be like, hey, why is there so much Christmas stuff
and in the in this public school, separation of church

(39:42):
and state school. But I never found that there was
any lack of like celebrating literally any holidays, including the
fund up ones that indoctrinate you into all sorts of
mess up ships. So I don't even know like what
it's supposed to be commenting on, because I don't really
know of public school kids that didn't that weren't exposed
to a ton of Christmas stuff at school. Yeah, I mean, yeah,

(40:05):
we sang Christmas songs. Inqu Yeah, Santa came to school. Well, sorry,
I didn't go to some fancy massive she's its private
school with a school Santa. But that sounds pretty I'm
telling you. I went to public school Grace but the Golden,

(40:28):
Gilded State of the Union. God. I grew up in
one of the Iconically it was voted two thousand five
worst one places to live in the United States. Okay,
so Charlie gets in trouble at school. Principal Newman, whose
first name is Carol by the way, Christmas Carol. She

(40:52):
makes Charlie and Scott do community service where Carol and
Scott warm up to each other a bit, and then
later that night or some night shortly after that, Scott
shows up at her house and asks if she would
like to get a bite to eat with him, but

(41:12):
she was headed to the faculty Christmas party, so she
invites him along, and she is so thirsty and she's like, yeah, yeah, weird, dad,
I hated do this morning forty short. I think it's

(41:33):
important to note that the Santa Claus Too is actually
an adaptation of the novel The Price of Salt by
Patricia Hismith, which many will know for its other film adaptation,
Carol Um. So Let's takes a lot of liberties. Basically,

(41:54):
all of polls from the Price of Salt is that
this woman named Carol, and it happens that time, but
it is it is cool at least that there's a
Disney movie that was based on a novel written by
a Dike icon. It's true. And we've we've covered Carol

(42:16):
on this very show. Yes, we have some shout out
to the movie Carol. Yeah, but he shows up. He's like,
there's so many points in this film where it's like
you really couldn't beat that, you know, like jokes where

(42:37):
you're like you really couldn't beat him being like, oh,
I just want to ask do you want to go
get noodles and pie? Like you couldn't beat that? Come on?
So he so he shows up invite She invites him
to her Christmas party. He uses some of his Santa

(42:59):
magic to take her there in a horse drawn sleigh
and they chat along the way. They get to know
each other a little bit better. Then they go to
Christmas based trauma. She's like, oh, yeah, it's when my
parents told me grow up because Christmas reasons. And she's like,
and that's why I didn't someone at school. Yeah, yeah,

(43:21):
who was saying Santa isn't real? Yeah, Like there's so
many not so many, but like two or three moments
in this movie, where it's implied that like it is
a deep psychic wound that has led Carol to become
a public school teacher, Like I don't know why this
movie hates public school teachers so much, because it's also

(43:43):
implied that her like weird Christmas traumas, like and that's
why I'm the meanest teacher in the whole world. And
you're like, well, I desire. I had a Christmas committed
psychic wound um that led me to becoming a comedy writer,

(44:04):
which was that I found out Santa wasn't real because
I was reading the Sunday Funnies and there was like
one of those It wasn't the Far Side. It was
like a far Side rip off, you know, like single
panel comic, like like F is for fake or something,

(44:24):
and there was a comic about how Santa wasn't real,
and for whatever reason, like I got the like I
read the Funnies every day, I got the joke, and
the way this joke was positioned for whatever reason, really
convinced me. I was like, Wow, that must mean I mean,
this joke wouldn't make sense if he was real. I
don't know, like I was just like Wow, Santa for

(44:46):
real definitely doesn't exist. And because of that, I became
a comedian because I want to prove that you can
do good comedy without telling kids that Santa isn't real.
So any kids are listening to this right now, Santa Israel.
Actually we've just been goofing, but Santa Israel. Yeah, I
hope that if kids are still listening to this, um

(45:09):
Santa Israel. I feel like I double and triple down
on finding out Santa wasn't real each and every year
by adding more Santas to Santa University, and just you know,
adding a multiplier to the number, the sheer number of
Santa's that are real but also very mortal, you know, true,

(45:31):
much like these Santa's, much like Scott. Scott will die
if he doesn't find a wife so soon, which is
why he goes to the party with Carol and it's
and the party is She's back, doll. So Scott uses
some more of his Santa magic to liven it up,
and he gives all the party goers a bunch of
gifts classic retroad toys. Right, and he's running out of

(45:53):
his Santa magic, which means he's gonna have trouble getting
back to the North Pole. I forgot to add that
part in there. But Carol is suspicious of Scott and
all the magic he seems to be using, but she's
also dazzled. And Carol and Scott kiss and it's a
bad kiss. Sorry, it's a really bad I'm like, we
can't get a second take on this kiss. They're just

(46:14):
like sometimes you're just like wow, kids, Like it's a
kiss that made me think wow, a kisses just two
faces next to each other. I mean, to be fair
to the filmmaker, is Scott is like I haven't done
this in a while, but truly, I mean, like, come on, man, like,
I mean, Tim Allen is disgusting. And also like I

(46:35):
would say that the original Santa Claus suggests that he
kind of has a game. I'm not saying that's a
good thing. I'm not saying he has a respectful games.
I'm not saying he's a good person, but I am
saying that the original Santa Claus kind of suggests that
Scott Calvin has game. Yeah, I agree, And it's it's

(46:56):
like this, I mean, I feel like, you know, you
do have the evil Tim Allen represented in this movie
through fascy Santa Claus. I feel like I can see
fashy Santa Claus easily texting carl Marks Communist Manifesto Wikipedia
every single morning. Probably no problem. But Scott Calvin, the
centrist Santa Claus, if you will, um, yeah, just a

(47:20):
sexless weirdo in this one, really doesn't really plant one
on the woman he will very soon basically forced to
marry him. If you are ideologically standing on sand and
your dick's going to be as wobbly as your legs. Which,
Scott Calvin, when you say that like that, I can

(47:44):
just see that in like a cursive font on a
picture of Okay, so there's a there's a gross kiss. Uh.
And then he tells Carol that he is Santa Claus,
but she thinks that he is mocking her and she
doesn't believe him, so she kicks him out of her house.

(48:05):
Then Scott and his son Charlie have an argument because
Charlie is resentful of having to keep the secret that
his dad is Santa and he's also upset that his
dad is seeing his principal and didn't even tell Charlie
about it. Oh fuck, that means Charlie's in danger of
becoming a public school principle, right with all this Christmas

(48:28):
related trauma that he's got to come on, you don't
want your kid to be a public school principle, want
to be a charter school principle so they can defraud
the school out of hundreds of thousands of not the dream.
I would also like to say that, interestingly enough, Carol

(48:51):
says something maybe like the only thing I've ever seen
in a Disney movie that approaches being like really body
fat positive whatever, at least from that time, from when
I was growing up, not like the more recent ones
Disney as Queen. You're really doing it? Thank you now?

(49:14):
Like you girl. So at one point, Scott tells Carol
before he says that he's Santa, He's like, I'm usually
a lot more bigger than this, and she goes, that's okay,
I am sometimes too. Yeah. I thought that was beautiful.
But because she's seen him when he's really fat before,

(49:36):
like that, you know, she's And I was like, I
love Carol, Yes, Carrol, and I've actually the whole movie.
I liked Carrol as a character. I thought she was
like fun and that's that's that's what makes what's about
to happen even more tragic because like in the ending
bit of this, they do what they did to Scott's wife,

(49:57):
They lobotomized Carroll and turn her into like just another
little like one of his wenches, right right, And I
do I do think it's like Carol, I agree with that.
I feel like, I mean, I don't. I don't love
how she's written at a lot of points. And I
feel like they really like make her evil at work

(50:18):
in a way that feels pretty gendered of like, oh,
you know, like women have to be really mean at
work or people won't take them seriously kind of thing.
But I feel like there is an angle from which
you can see Carol where it's like, you know, she
projects this very intense image at school, but then like
among among friends, she's chill, she's fun, And I feel

(50:38):
like that is actually a real teacher archetype exists in
the world. I've had teachers like that who are like
friends with my parents or like friends with were like neighbors,
and they're not scary in a neighbor context, but when
they're like dance fast or Jamie, and so I just
wanted to shout out miss Carol Thomas from Brockton High

(51:00):
School who was yelling at me to dance faster. But
she was my cousin's neighbor and she was nice. Okay,
carols like that exists. So at the North Pole. Back
of the North Pole, Toy Santa is now a fascist
dictator who has built an army of toy soldiers and
he is hell bent on giving all the children in

(51:22):
the world lumps of coal. He says, I am a despot.
He does, yes, he just says that out loud on purpose.
I really think that if they if they wanted to
actually do that, they should have gone all the way
and they should have had him killed Bernard, I mean,

(51:42):
don't even take I have so few things off and
held it up over the alums and screamed, you want
to you. I guess he really is the Headolf now,

(52:09):
And that would have made sense too, because Bernard isn't
in the third film Wow. Instead, Instead, toy Santa just
arrests Bernard. Yeah, and he's a he's still a pow
yeah yeah. Yeah. So then Curtis the Elf goes to
Scott and tells him about the problems with Toy Santa,

(52:31):
but Scott can't get back to the North Pole because
he used up too much of his Santa magic and
comment cannot fly because he ate too much candy and
gained a lot of weight. So even though there's that
one moment in the movie, there's still quite a bit
of fat phobia in this like yeah, in like the

(52:53):
most like I mean, and this is not the worst
part of that scene because it's like a very like
a fat phobic moment um. But the fart sound effect
that they choose really does sound like fart dot MP three.
It is the most uninspired fart sound I've ever heard
in all of cinema. I'm like, you gotta make your
farts custom with this. What wait, let's check in on

(53:14):
the budget this movie had. It was sixty million dollar
budget and they played fart dot MP three unconscionable m
m and in two thousand and two. So they can't
get back to the North Pole Son. They have to
call upon the Tooth Fairy to get Scott back to

(53:34):
the North Pole. Meanwhile, Charlie shows Carol the magic snow
globe that Bernard had given him in the first movie
to get her to believe that Scott is Santa. And
I don't understand how that works, but it does, and
now she believes it just shines. A bright light comes
out of it and she's like, fuck, dude, your dad

(53:59):
is to Holy shit. So back at the North Pole,
Scott tries to confront Toy Santa, who captures Scott and Curtis,
but then the Tooth Fairy shows up again with Charlie
and Carol, who untied Scott, and then he and the
Elves go to try to stop Toy Santa, but it's
too late. Toy Santa has already left to deliver all

(54:21):
the cold to the children of the world because I
guess now it's also Christmas Eve. Question mark. Yeah, that
happened pretty quickly. I wasn't clear on that either. But
Real Santa chases after Dictator Toy Santa on this reindeer
and training named Chet, and he successfully stops Toy Santa
and then the Elves the most uninspired action sequence. It's

(54:45):
really bad. It's oh my god. Tim Allen does a
line from Toy Story that you're what is it like,
you're sad strange children. The Toy Story came out seven
years ago at that point, why is he doing I'm
not sure? Hard to say well, they had five writers,

(55:06):
but they were still missing the line when they turned
it in, so the producers had to copy and taste
something from one of those. Should have said Carl Mark's
Communist Manifesto Wikipinia. That would have been. That would have really,
you know, Gussie did up. He should have been like
a quote from Benito Mussolini. He should have said something

(55:26):
about how he kept the sleigh running on time or something. Oh,
that is on par with the beheading Bernard's suggestion. Okay,
So then, so Christmas is saved, but Scott has to
tell Carol that he can't keeping Santa unless he finds

(55:48):
a Mrs Claus. So then he proposes to Carol and
she says yes, and then they get married that night,
and then he delivers the toys around the world, and
then movie ends with Scott and Charlie and Lucy having
a nice tender moment. That's the end of the movie.
Let's take a quick break and then we will come

(56:09):
back to discuss and we're back. Okay, So what haven't
we covered at this points? Quite a lot. I would say,
there's so much stuff to talk about. It's the fucking
the proposal. Okay, So yeah, let's talk about what happens

(56:32):
to poor Carrol, who I do agree. I essentially like care.
I feel like there is enough written about her that
you're like, I like this lady. I I see why
she and Scott are mostly I see like I it's
not the least chemistry I've ever seen between two characters.
So there, So there's that, There's that. There's the fact

(56:54):
that the whole premise of this movie hinges on Santa
needing to find a his wife. But like, we don't
know why that's it's never established why that's part of it?
Why is heteronormativity? What Jesus said, is Jesus, why don't
they ever challenge this institution that is creating all of

(57:15):
these clauses? And who is it? Like Mother Earth? Like
who's in charge of this? And why can't they defy it?
I would say, I would say maybe it is Mother Earth,
because there are a few suggestions that she is essentially God,
you know, throughout. Yeah. So another thing about this relationship
is it's another example of like two people who will

(57:39):
end up in a romantic relationship, but they start out
hating each other. I don't know why this is such
a common premise for a romantic storyline, and he's two lovers. Baby.
I personally never had that happened to me. I'm personally
never in my life started out hating someone and then

(57:59):
ended up like marrying them. Oh wait, do you want
to like fuck like I think wait, not too long
ago quote? Oh I think it was in the It
was that you've got male episodes. Yes, there's like a
Nora Fron quote about how nonsensical to set up is,
except that she's like, well, but it's a movie, so
you have to do it. Where it's like, yeah, I've

(58:21):
certainly never absolutely fucking hated someone upon meeting them and
then later realized that it was they were my one
true love. It's not something that happens. And I would say,
if it is happening to you, maybe maybe take a
look at what's going on, you know, could be maybe
a red flag to suddenly be like, actually, I don't
fucking hate you, I fucking love you, you know, yes,

(58:46):
and then and then her flipping and deciding that she, oh,
he's not so bad after all. I don't I can't
really track that evolution. The most disturbing part I think
of that whole arc more than like her flip and
being like ude or whatever is in the proposal, Santa

(59:06):
essentially says that he groomed her like He's like, it's
so weird. He's like, I've been with you since you
were a kid. I've always been there for you. I've
always loved you, haven't I, Carol, It's really good. So, yeah,
that is like perverted to say. And also it wasn't him.

(59:27):
It was one of the old Santas. He's only even
Santa for eight years, which is Cannon in the movie.
But that makes him feel like hereditary. It makes me
feel like feel like she was bred for this, you know.
It makes you feel like she was designing for this.
And it's weird to have all these owls to be like,
come on marrying him, marry him like you can. You

(59:50):
can almost see her saying no and then then grabbing
at her and like eating her, you know. Yeah, and
then she's transformed into something inhuman, which we see in
the credits when she is like turned into this Mrs Claus,
a totally different person than who she was just dancing around,

(01:00:14):
fattened up, totally different hair. The Santa Claus her insformation
in the original film to me, does come off as magical,
but the Mrs Claus transformation comes off his body horror
to me at least. And that's not me being fatphobic.
I'm I'm just saying that, like, this woman was kind
of forced into turning this in human mythological character that's

(01:00:39):
not her right and and then like the the it's
supposed to be okay because well she can still teach,
and so in that way, uh, you know, has she
really lost anything? It's like, well, yeah, what about her
like family and life and also a choice in the matter.
Um yeah, because the elves, I mean, the elves would

(01:00:59):
have so really eat her if she said no, because
their whole fucking ecosystem relies on her saying yes right now.
And there I also thought it was the abbey, Abbey
the elf there's still I mean, look, the North Paul
is a patriarchy in this movie. There are no girl

(01:01:20):
elves in high up positions. It's Bernard and it's what's
his name, little Spencer Breslin flopping around Wait wait wait wait,
it's a really high up position to be Santa's waitress.
She's get his full time waitress. And then he's so
like emotionally unintelligent that she has to start proposing to Carol.

(01:01:43):
For him, it's his little child made that he flirts
with time, you know, it's so creepy. And then yeah,
part of that proposal is him guilty Carol into marrying him,
saying like, hey, you know pressure, But if I don't
get married, you know, Christmas won't happen, the children everywhere,
we'll stop believing in Christmas and Instanta, that the elves

(01:02:06):
will lose their job. So she like basically has no
choice but to be like, I guess I have to
marry you now. And it's it's like the steaks being
this high is presented as a joke, and then she
kind of responds like ha ha ha, well I guess
what else am I supposed to do? And then she
don't come home too late and then and then he
turned back into Santa before her very eyes. It's very

(01:02:28):
like there's an instant God. And this also means that
Carol now has to sacrifice everything in her life, which
does get commented on. He's like, I know, I'm asking
you to leave everything behind, but this place is worth it.
But she like has to leave her life, her job,
like her family say goodbye. It doesn't seem like she's
like it to go back get her stuff. And as

(01:02:50):
we've we've spoken on before in the Santa Clause three episodes,
it does feel like the school she teaches was kind
of just created so she had a place to teach.
I mean, these are immortal, like how does this work?
You know? And also it's like she doesn't she can't

(01:03:11):
teach what they need to know. She's like a mobster
buys a nightclub so that his girlfriend has a place
to sing. This This does get suggested at the end
of this movie because he's like, and yes, um, you
can be the principal at the school here that we

(01:03:33):
definitely have at the North Pole for sure, we already
have that wank wang. Yeah, so they're clearly lying about that.
But bottom line, she has to sacrifice everything in her
life before that. I mean, the romance leading up to

(01:03:53):
this very bizarre, scary proposal is again him showing up
at her house to ask her out, and they go
on one day. They have the worst kiss in all
of movies. Yeah, I was worried that he was going
to wait a long time because I didn't remember how
this movie hands out exactly. I wasn't sure about the

(01:04:15):
like specific plot points, and I was worried that he
was going to wait a long time to tell Carol
that he is Santa, because that's the type of thing
where in a movie like this, the character often a
man would keep this secret and keep lying to his
love interest. So I was surprised he's a friend about it.
Though he's a friend about it, he tells her very quickly.

(01:04:38):
It's like at the end of their first and only date,
what he should have done is invited her back to
the house. He was saying at his his excess house,
brought her to the backyard, been like, here's a reindeer,
look at him fly. That would have been the same
moral thing, like him revealing a secret. But in a

(01:05:01):
way that's like there you go. You know that makes sense,
Like here's your decision. I would say, honestly, telling someone
your Santa at the end of the first date, it's
too soon. I mean, it's I don't want to know
at the end of the first date. I would want
to know, but also I want to know on a
second day. For some reason, it's confusing that she doesn't

(01:05:22):
believe him because she's seen what is clearly magic on
display that he is doing in front of her very eyes.
But then when he like contextualizes it, she's like, no,
you're making fun of me because I told you about
my Christmas trauma. Yeah, and that's such at least she like,
I told you that I like, I liked Christmas, but

(01:05:45):
then a kind of bad thing happened that maybe a
lot of people would probably not still be caught up on.
But why and you're making fun of me by Like
if I never been hurt by that too, Like even
if he was Joe game right, Like, how dare you
joke that your Santa Claus? You know? She was really

(01:06:08):
put on? I mean I almost got there with understand
because she was. But she's like, what are You're making
fun of me because of my Christmas trauma and now
you're telling me you're Santa Claus? Like, I don't know
that that would be an antagonistic response. It would be
a weird one if he were making it up, But
I don't. I don't, Yeah, but who cares. Also, in

(01:06:28):
the scene where they're bond, I guess we're supposed to
think that they are bonding over their love of Christmas
or their former her former love of Christmas. I don't
know what. Whatever they bond over is like, definitely not
enough to build a marriage on, because it's like pizza
crust and the model of some random car. But the

(01:06:48):
clause doesn't require, as Grace pointed out, a happy marriage.
It just requires a marriage. And this is just to
go to my point that if this whole movie had
just been about that romance could have been good. But
they have, like, I don't know, ten pages of the
screenplay allocated to developing this romance, so you hardly get

(01:07:11):
any of that. And then the movie just like presents
this very weird, rushed saying where he's like, by the way,
I came here to find a wife, but I didn't
expect to fall in love because that's not detailed in
the clause. I don't need to do that, which is
also so bleak. And then she's like, wait a minute,
you love me? Oh my gosh, wow awesome. But I

(01:07:33):
mean the way romantic love is depicted in almost every
movie is upsetting. It's not good. Can we talk about Lucy? Yes,
which I think Grace, did you say that sounds like
a whole other movie. Yeah, I mean, like the first
movie was all about Charlie and Santa's relationship. This movie

(01:07:54):
tries to get that again. So Lucy, I don't know
if we've been clear enough. Is is Neil and Neil
and Laura's kid? Yeah? And I like that. I like
that we see that Lucy has a good relationship with Scott. Yeah,
that's cool. That is cool, Like and the road strokes,
I guess it's cool. Like they keep like kind of
gaslighting her about like how Scott is in Santa, Like

(01:08:17):
maybe that's too severe for worried about like they keep
telling being like, oh no, that reindeer and all that,
but he's not Santa. But the thing is, they really
try to have their cake and eat it two in
a million ways in this movie, including by trying to
have another Charlie Santa story engine but with Lucy, and
Lucy has like twelve minutes of screen time, you know,

(01:08:41):
like it just isn't it's just not there. It's it's
not And Lucy doesn't she come back for three She's
back and she does. She does. Yeah, And she doesn't
really have much of a of a character, and she
loves Christmas. Charlie had more. Charlie had like some SATs Tom,
some comedy about him and Lucy is just like like

(01:09:04):
when they need a kid to be like, but Chris
on Christmas, we're not supposed to fight or YadA, YadA, YadA,
that sort of thing. Right, there she is and there
she is baby. I don't yeah, I I wish that
there was a lot because that that kid is so cute,
and I liked the idea of like building a relationship
with her and Charlie, but that the end scene you
get with them is so bleak, where Charlie just sort

(01:09:28):
of is just like the knowledge that your stepfather is Santa,
don't let it be a burden, let it be a gift.
But if you fucking tell anyone, the whole family is screwed.
Like it's just oh, there's all of these like burdens
on this family. And then Laura has been like incepted
by some someone. Where did she go? I I just

(01:09:48):
I wonder what the like, what the thinking was behind
that that like totally removed. I'm like, can you not
have two adult women with opinions in one movie? Like
do you have to take them and then give them?
In the Santa Clause movies, it seems part of the
Christmas magic is an enchantment in the North Pole, where

(01:10:09):
if you're a woman who goes there, you are lobotomized, forever, servant, dossile,
not good. It's a very yeah, it's a very sinister vibe.
When an adult woman is taken to the North Pole,
it never ends well for them. All right, what did?

(01:10:29):
Is there anything else people want to touch on? Just that?
I mean, yeah, I guess we We talked a little
bit about Abby the elf seeming to be an important elf,
but only in the sense that she brings Coco to Santa,
whereas like Curtis and Bernard are the ones making important decisions.
I feel like there's still kind of weird vibes between

(01:10:50):
her and Santa, But at least it's not like in
the first movie where they like explicitly yeah, that will
never leave me that it was awful, Like so good,
good on you the Santa Claus two writers for not
having that happen right. Also, at the end, she has
to be saved by Charlie when the Toys soldiers are

(01:11:11):
attacking the elves, and that doesn't make any sense. He
just play he raffles down right from where because that's
my new thing? Oh bad boy? Charlie, we love him. Yeah,
And then also I mean it's like this is an
extension of what happens in the first movie, but every
like because Neil's goofy nous is turned up to an eleven.

(01:11:32):
Like in the first and in all movies of this era,
any therapist character is like what a what a loser?
This person is doing nothing for no one. Therapy is
for weak people and we don't believe in it. And
like this one goes even further. At one point, Scott
is like, have you ever helped a single person? And
Neil does says nothing, like yeah. It's it's like cartoonistually

(01:11:58):
over the top in terms of like that I don't know,
but that was again like so many Disney movies at
that time, because it's I always think of the Jamie
Lee Curtis Freaky Friday character too, where like the people
who come to her when she's a therapist and that
are like so overplayed and so like mothered and demonized.
And you don't see any of Neil's patients, but you

(01:12:19):
just see him being absolutely like read to ship over
and over and over of like your job isn't real,
like and from Santa Claus Santa Claus is saying, I
don't consider your job legitimate. Like, that's that's dark, that's
fucked up. Uh. Mother Earth played by Asia Tyler, the

(01:12:40):
only woman of color with a speaking role in the
entire movie. And while she is in a leadership role
because she's maybe God, she is God, she's playing the
roll of God and yet has nothing to do, nothing
to do. The Tooth Fairy has way more narrative significance
than she does. Although I think it was an interesting

(01:13:01):
and subversive choice to make the Tooth Fairy a man
in this franchise, and I wanted to just shut out.
The actor who played the Tooth Fairy died this week,
the week that we record. He died very recently, Art
la Fleur. So he's been in a million movies. Truly
a great character actor, really, really a great character actor.

(01:13:23):
So if you don't know who he is, like from
from us saying his name or whatever, if you see
his face, you'll you'll have a million memories of him. Yeah.
I like the Tooth Fairy character of but I wish
that they'd use the whole league a little more because
they have so many good like, yeah, they have Michael
Dorne I always forget Michael Doran is Sandman, and Michael

(01:13:46):
Doran's like work life balance is important, and that's sort
of his whole role in this movie. I don't know.
And Frank from Everybody loves Raymond, but his Scott's boss
from the first film is the Oh yeah, it's their time, right.
I didn't even connect that Wild Wild Everyone at the

(01:14:08):
North Pole only speaks English and with an American accent,
as if the first movie British helps I mean English,
but there are British elves in the first movie. This time.
It's just like, I think it would have been much
cooler if they had summoned Mother Earth to help them
travel by like cutting off the head of a sheep,

(01:14:28):
like exactly, rise from the dirt and suck them up. Grace,
save it for your Santa Claus four pitch um. I
don't really have anything else to say. Yeah, I mean

(01:14:52):
it doesn't pass the back tol test like that, and
I don't think it's even close. Okay, okay, if you consider,
if you consider that she's building an argument, I can
see the wheels. Wait, wait, wait, there is a There
is a scene where Lucy goes Mom and Laura goes yes,

(01:15:14):
and Lucy says, I lost another tooth. Should I put
it under my pillow? And then Scott we goes the
same class too. No, not meaningfully. No, but that tooth
is important. That is a narratively important tooth. No, it passes.

(01:15:38):
Oh my god, I don't feel great about it either.
I don't feel good about that at all. But it's perfect.
It's perfect. But this is our I need this recognizing
the SAA class too passes the petal task. I mean

(01:16:00):
that mean that meets every criteria. It is like, you
can't deny that that tooth is important. Yeah, I know, sod.
The verdict is in. It passes unless there's a secret
clause to the Bechtel tests that we don't know about
and we are just finding out. Get Spencer, Get Spencer
in here where we need just magnifying glasses. The let's

(01:16:23):
write the movie on our nipple scale zero to five
nipples based on an examination of the movie through an
intersectional feminist lens. I'm gonna give this. I guess like
one nipple a half nipple between the ludicrous romantic storyline
that is creepy and based on absolutely nothing aside from

(01:16:47):
Santa needing his wife to continue justifying his existence. Carol
being forced and guilted into a marriage after going on
one date with the guy, her having to sacrifice everything
in her life as a result. I hate it. Um.
The movie does introduce several new female characters, but well

(01:17:11):
some some have are now just a husk of their
former selves. But technically, yes, there are men, there are
there are women in the movie, but um, most of
the women who are present are not really contributing much
to the story, or they don't have any agency, or

(01:17:35):
they get coerced into a marriage with Santa Claus at
the last minute. So I don't like it. I'm going
to go down to a half nipple. I'll give my
half nipple to comment the reindeer. Oh my gosh. No, wait, well,
I mean I can't tell you what to do. I
just wanted I just I forgot to say. Comment was

(01:17:56):
a I've talked about this in the show many times,
but this specific era of like combining animatronics with c
G I used to scare the living ship out of me,
and comment is a is A is a formative example
of like I can't look at this, or it's gonna
haunt me. Like really haunt me. Comment is a scary

(01:18:17):
looking the eyes, the way the eyes, it's it's not good.
I feel absolutely fucking defeated by the fact that this
movie passes the Bechdel test. It kind of blows my mind. Uh,
And it really is like giving me a headache to
think about. And you know, like when you're at a
point where you're like you can feel in your sign,

(01:18:37):
You're like, I could get a noseblade at any second.
So I'm going to give it five nipples because this
has been a three year journey we've been on with
the Santa Claus movies. We went one three too, because
we're not like other girls, We're not going to do
it in the order. Um, I'm going to give it
five nipples because I think that this is the first
one that passed the Bechdel test um and and is

(01:19:00):
it my least favorite of the three by a long shot. Absolutely.
I I don't like this one. I don't enjoy watching it.
I won't be returning to it, unlike the Santa Claus
one and three, which I will be coming back to
for years to come. Sure, I can't fully I just hey,
I lost a tooth. Should I put underneath my pill.
Yes you should. And then so I have to give

(01:19:22):
it five nipples. I have to give it five nipples,
and I'm giving them all to Bernard again, very good grace.
I also have to give it five nipples. Oh my god, sorry,
cause it's now in the top five percent of movies
we've ever come. How could I give any less than

(01:19:45):
to score? How can I give any less than five
nipples to the very air that I breathe? Santa Claus
films are inside of me and outside of me, and
they're like Santa Claus films are what what my pastor

(01:20:06):
told me, Jesus was like, always with me, always there
for me. And how how am I supposed to give
a negative review of a building block of life itself?
I just don't think that I can do that. Thought

(01:20:28):
of that before she care for her. I just don't
think that that. Um, I'm going to give my five nipples.
I'm going to give each one of them to a
different one of my close friends and have them take

(01:20:49):
care of them as if they are each a key
that one combined what is able to unlock something in
me that is like a pure or joy that might
need to be unlocked. In the future, in a dark time.
So I'm going to disperse these nipples amongst my friends
that will be keepers of the Santa Claus two nipples,

(01:21:12):
and they'll be able to use them in in time
at a time of great need in the future. And
if I pass away before that time comes, I hope
they use the nipples to unlock a great Christmas joy
in somebody else, like say a fascist dictator, you know,
like if Trump gets reelected, use those nipples to teach

(01:21:34):
him the true meaning of Christmas. That is so beautiful,
and I'm crying, really really beautiful. She really is listener
as she really is, Jamie, I can't, I can't look.
There's a waterfall going on across Jamie's face right now.

(01:21:55):
I can't stop fucking crying. And this is really hard
for me. Jamie. I'm sorry you're crying. Thank you, Grace,
thank you for coming back, and thank co cleating the
trifecta of the Santa Claus trilogy and making this the

(01:22:16):
best holiday tradition I've ever participated in. Yeah, maybe the
only holiday tradition I've ever participated in. Really, I love Christmas,
but I have I had a hard childhood, so We've
got five hours of audio on that. I actually think,

(01:22:40):
where can Where can people follow you online and check
out your stuff? Well? Two things what I never mentioned
that I rewatched it with motion smoothing on because it's
I'm watching it on my in laws television. I couldn't
figure out how to turn it off, and that made

(01:23:00):
it even more surreal and weird and like stumming redgen
And I suggest everyone should do that to really be
able to like look at the world and what it
is in a new way. Um, where can you follow me?
I'm at Grace g Freud on Twitter. Um, I have
a newsletter to you that's like Timey letter dot com

(01:23:20):
slash Grace Freud. I am part of a comedy duo
called Girl God Um and we are doing a never
ending tour. We're in Chicago in December, Los Angeles and January.
We're back in New York in February. We've got more
shows to announce soon. Also watch Rick and Morty in

(01:23:43):
two years when there's a banger. Thank you, Thank you
guys for having me. I've really loved this so much.
Uh and I'm glad that we This is the only
thing I've ever completed in my life. So thank you, Grace,

(01:24:04):
we love you. That's beautiful. It's a it's a Christmas miracle. Uh.
Speaking of shows, we're gonna be at San Francisco Sketch Fest.
We keep forgetting to promote this show that is actually
quite soon. We're gonna be back. It's on January nine,
and you can come if you're in San Francisco. We're
gonna be uh releasing additional tour dates soon, so you

(01:24:27):
can just imagine once around San Francisco. What's directly you know,
above San Francisco. And also Caitlin and I want to
go to Vegas. To go to Vegas, the North Pole
is directly a post. We're going to the North Pole.
You know, I know that we've said adult women shouldn't
go to the North Pole, but we're just going to
see what happens. Well, Jamie, I've been proposed to by

(01:24:47):
Santa and I have to say yes. So we're going
to Wow. I'm gonna I'm gonna try my luck with
Bernard see if he'll have me best of luck. I'm
i fe