Titanic: VHS Tape 2

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the Bedel cast, the questions asked if movies have
women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,
or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef and best
start changing it with the Bechdel cast. Oh, I was
gonna try to quote Titanic, but but you couldn't, Like,

(00:21):
I just couldn't choose. I just couldn't choose which I
was like, Wait, what's going on? I was gonna say, like, oh,
I'm King of the World. But that's like, honestly, maybe
the worst quote from the movie whoa. I mean, I
can't say I agree with that. Okay, that seems sick

(00:42):
and right. I think the worst quote from the movie
would be, oh, something that you don't even remember, like
something you don't Oh, here it is, gotcha? Who oh
when exactly? Not memorable? Not memorable? No, but I know
what you're talking about. It's when the guys were looking
for Jack and Rose in the cargo hold and they
open the door and they're like they think they're going

(01:03):
to see them like mid coitus. Yes, oh okay, So,
first of all, welcome to the vessel cast Um. Yes, hello,
my name's Jamie Loftus. My name is Caitlin Durante and
this is our Normally it's our podcast where we give
in intersectional feminist analysis of your favorite movies. This week,
we are, for the second week in the row, once
again covering Titanic for I believe the seventh time. So

(01:25):
it is the most wonderful time of the year. And
as we briefed you on in last week's episode, we
are doing a two parter for this is a way
to both say that first the episode was unexpectedly so
long because we will never run out of things to
say about this, and to to just sort of pay
a homage to the two VHS Titanic collection. So this

(01:49):
is VHS two, Yes, but I feel like we should update.
Do we have Titanic news since last semis we record
yea an episode. I had my wedding so to speak,
which is I invited all my friends to an AMC
in Burbank, California to watch Titanics like any good wedding, Zach,

(02:13):
thank you, and a lot of people came and we
had the best time. There was cheering, it was beautiful.
A friend of the cast, Sara June, booed the iceberg
when it came on screen and we all loved it.
It was an extremely titanic screening that it was, is
how I felt about it. And yes, Caitlin, thank you

(02:34):
for coordinating it. I will say of Titanic three D,
it doesn't need to be three D there, thank you.
There wasn't a lot of three D. I wanted to
see every pore on Bruce's May's face. Wow, I just didn't. Yeah,
I know, well that's a me thing. Sure, that's because
I'm a little perfect. I don't love three D movies.

(02:55):
In fact, I avoid them, and I was worried that
it was going to be like headache inducing. But the
three D was like kind of underwhelming, which I actually
liked because I was like, oh, I'm not being given
a headache. I would but but you wouldn't have liked
it if you had paid a premium and didn't have
an AMC Stubbs pass. Sure that's what I was thinking

(03:16):
of the non stubs heads. If I were a non
stubs head, which of course I'm not, I would be
fucking pissed if I paid twenty six dollars to not
even be hit in the face with an iceberg, which
I think is like low key kind of morbid and disrespectable.
But anyways, we want we didn't do that, yes, And
speaking of stubs, I mean we would be remiss not

(03:40):
to acknowledge that we come to this place for magic,
we come to this place to laugh, to cry, to care, etc.
And also AMC can eat shit recently, But I mean,
obviously we're not based on what I just said, We're
obviously not sponsored by them. They can eat it. Did
you see how they are trying to introduce a t
heard yes movie seed program that is the most elitest

(04:04):
garbage peepie poopoo thing I've ever seen in my life.
Like movies are supposed to be in equal space for
the pay, you know, twelve dollars times for three these days,
I don't know. I'm a step hit, so I don't know.
And then you know, I just think that's so fucking ridiculous, infuriated,
kisses me off. We're not sponsored by them, so we're

(04:27):
saying that, Yeah, anyone who doesn't sponsor us, we have
to find an active insult forth. Anyways, it rocked, We laughed,
we cried, we cared, Sara boot in the iceberg. It
was it was really special. It was wonderful. I had
the best time. Thank you for coming with me, Jamie, Oh,
I mean, and thanks to all who attended indeed Titanic.
And that resulted in a little bit of James Cameron

(04:49):
history where Titanic has now eclipsed Avatar. Avatar two overtook
Titanic as a higher grossing movie, but then when Titanic rereleased,
Titanic is back up on top overtook Avatar two. Okay, now,
who knows what will happen. I just James Cameron's kind
of like the Joey Chestnut of movie grosses, like he's
really mostly in competition with himself, and you're just like, well, yes,

(05:12):
good for that white guy. In any case, shall we
get to the episode? Yes, So, without much further ado,
here is VHS tape number two, And by that we
mean the rest of the episode that we didn't have
time to include last week. So it's a recap of
the movie plus Jamie's fun facts corner. So the recap

(05:38):
of Titanic that I never have done before. I will
include a content slash trigger warning for suicide at the
top of this recap and sinking boat and for a
sinking boat, yes right, and then I'm gonna pipe in.

(06:01):
It's kind of hard because I have two long lists
of notes for the two different three hour commentary tracks.
I'm gonna do my best, but I'll try to interject
with useful information and not just having a meltdown. And
anything that you don't get to during the recap we
can touch on afterward. We can zip through. Yeah, oh yeah, Okay,

(06:25):
here we go. The movie begins in present day with
Brock love It, played by Bill Paxton, who Jim Cameron
admits is his self insert character. I mean, he says,
that makes he's like Brock on the phone with his financiers,
more like me on the phone with paramount. He he

(06:45):
ha ha. He also says that he edited the intro sequence,
like with the title and like the waves and stuff.
He edited that himself. Wow, in the space of twenty
hours and one bottle of tequila. Whoa, I know he
drunk edited the opening sequence Love that, Okay, love that

(07:09):
So Brock love It is in speaking of love It.
Brock love It is in a submarine searching the wreckage
of the Titanic because he is trying to find a
diamond necklace called the Heart of the ocean. He believes
it went down with the ship when it sunk in
nineteen twelve. Yes, he finds this safe, he brings it

(07:35):
to the surface, he opens it, but oops, the diamond
is not in the safe. I learned a little bit
about how they shot the underwater sequences, and that was
really interesting because it was kind of like whatever, a
combination of crew members sort of telling you exactly what
shots were actually from the wreckage of Titanic and which

(07:56):
ones were reproductions that they did match shots for in
eskindido fun facts that I learned included and I think
I sort of knew that, but I don't know this,
but I don't know if like we've ever talked about
on the show. So like all of those, like the
underwater cameras, like they're called ROVs, they had to develop

(08:16):
a version of existing technology that could be used for
the movies because there's so few of that equipment available
that they wouldn't lend it to James Cameron for his
little movie. It reminded me of how like Initia, like
famous figure skaters wouldn't be stunt people because they're like, yeah,
it's not worth it. Sorry, movie it's well because It's

(08:39):
like if you're doing a triple axle in figure skating
and then you fuck your ankle up, then your career
is over and all you did was a stunt on itonia,
you know. I think that that's how they're like, these
cameras are so valuable that like, if you break it
making a movie, we will kill you. Like so they
had to like develop technology for the movie specifically, and

(09:02):
then also that piano that they see. James Cameron sometimes
he claims to have done things where I'm just like,
I don't believe you. But anyways, he that piano, He's like,
I made that myself. I took a drill to it
and it took all night and I was like, what
are you talking about? But he started in the art

(09:23):
department and he claims to just really have like raw
dog that piano and made it look old and threw
an underwater Wow. Okay, all right, who knows? Well, so
Brock has opened the safe. The diamond is not there,
But what is there is a nude drawing of a
woman who is wearing the diamond necklace in the drawing,

(09:45):
So we know that James Cameron drew that. What I'd
never heard before this was that he drew it semi
from life, like it wasn't just like and not from
the scene in the movie. The drawing was like done
or like storyboarded before Kate Winslet, ever, you know, posed

(10:06):
for it in the movie. Sure, but yeah, he said that,
like he had Kate Winslett pose for him and a
few artists from a few different angles. But she was
wearing she was not nude. She was wearing a bikini.
And then he sounded really creepy, dad, and he was like,
I had to use my imagination to draw her nude.
We didn't know each other well enough for her to

(10:28):
pose nude for me, which I'm like, yeah, true, but
why did you say that? You know? But there's a
lot of like bizarre I don't know, there's a lot
of like nineties because the two commentary tracks I listened
to were recorded for the ten b anniversary DVD, so
it was recorded sometime in like two thousand and six

(10:48):
for the two thousand and seven release. But there's all
sorts of like bizarre nineties sounding like there's a story
about how like when Kate Winslet like she didn't want
Leonardo DiCaprio to see her naked for the first time,
like on the set for that scene. So she, according
to her, like left her makeup trailer door unlocked and

(11:10):
like called him in while she was getting full body
makeup for that scene and like didn't tell him she
was going to be naked, and like jump scared him
and then he was like whoa and she's like, ha
ha ha, It's it's more comfortable this way. We're just
co workers. And then Leonardo DiCaprio was like cool, and
I guess everyone was fine with it, but I was like,

(11:33):
this is a weird you guys are most stories about
Kate Winslett and Leonardo DiCaprio are weird. Like she just
says it like it's a I mean, whenever they had
a jokey relationships. They're obviously still friends, but she was like,
ha ha ha. This is where Leo would fart in
his jacket and stick into my face. I was like, yucky,

(11:54):
but she's like, we'd love to have a laugh. I'm like, wow,
you know they really found each other because I would
hate that. What a bunch of goofs. I guess. Okay,
So this exploring of the wreckage of Titanic, this whole
thing is like being televised. Yes, And an old woman
sees the drawing that brock loove It has uncovered from

(12:18):
the safe. She sees it on TV and she says, well,
I'll be goddamned. She then we're trying. Yeah. She then
calls brock loove It and says the woman in the
picture is me, and yeah, I know all about the
diamond you're looking for. Okay, I definitely didn't know this.

(12:38):
Let me know if you do this. So, when James
Cameron was writing this iconically okay script, he was looking for,
like to build out Old Rose. He was looking for
like a oh god, I never say this word right,
like sent centenarian, someone who was around a hundred who
he like wanted to find a really interesting older woman

(13:01):
who had lived a wild life to sort of like
build Old Rose around or do just like have in mind.
And Bill Paxton's his wife Louise Paxton, suggested this artist
she knew of who lived in oh High, who was
like in her night. I think she was like one

(13:22):
hundred and one when the movie came out, and she
was like, oh, you should check out this artist, Beatrice Wood.
She sounds exactly like the kind of person you're looking for.
And she gave James Cameron a copy of Beatrice Wood's autobiography,
which is called I Shocked Myself, and James Cameron met
with her before writing a character of Old Rose. Gotta

(13:42):
feel for who she was. A lot of the like
lines that Old Rose has were based on her cadence
and jokeyness. The fact that Rose does pottery is based
on Beatrice Wood because that was what Beatrice Wood was
most famous for in her later career, And Gloria Stewart
met with her too, Like she's just like this fascinating

(14:03):
person and if you're into art history at all, listeners
she was like she was like a really important artist
who had never heard of but she like was with
like Marcel Duchamp, like championing his work at like the
very very beginning of his work. Like she's considered like
the mother of data art, but is obviously not brought

(14:27):
up half as much as Duchamp was. But she was
a huge advocate and like she worked alongside him. She
did a lot of drawings and then later did like
sculpture and then even later in her career to pottery.
She was like the subject of this famous data art
love triangle with Duchamp and this other artist I don't know.

(14:49):
She was really really fascinating and I was excited to
even get to Like, I ordered a copy of her
autobiography because she just sounds really free king cool, and
I love that Louise Paxton was the one that was
just like, hey, check this out. And then I think
most iconically, after Titanic came out, Beatrice Wood awarded the

(15:14):
fifth Annual Beatrice Wood Film Award to James Cameron Reciprocity.
But yeah, so okay, last and so, like, Gloria Stewart
and James Cameron went to Beatrice Wood's one hundred and
first birthday luncheon when they were getting to know her,
and I guess that she turned down dessert at the table,

(15:36):
and everyone's like, why didn't you want dessert, Beatrice? And
she said, I only like chocolate and young men. So wow,
I know, shout out Beatrice Wood. I just had like
a really fun side quest learning about her. She's really cool.
Hell yeah, yeah, I didn't know. Okay, So brock Lovett

(16:01):
invites this woman who had called him Rose Calvert, played
by Gloria Stewart, and he invites her aboard the kel Dish,
which is the ship they are operating this search of
the Titanic wreckage from a real ship, so that Rose
can tell him what she knows about the diamond. And

(16:22):
she starts to tell her story. She iconically says, it's
been eighty four years and I can still smell the
fresh paint. That China had never been used, she had
never been slept in. Titanic was called the ship of
dream of and was it really he was? Also another

(16:45):
fun meeting was Gloria Stewart requested to meet with Kate
Winslet when they first got cast as Rose, so that
Gloria Stewart would know how to like whatever, like the
way that you would, but liked to fix her mannerisms.
And there's like video footage of that meeting, and it's
really really sweet, and it's Glorious Stewart showing they're both

(17:06):
like drinking champagne and their little tipsy, and Glorious Stewart
is showing because she was like an old Hollywood star,
She's showing Kate Winslet these pictures of her when she
was like She's like, I was having sex without every
Marx brother and none of that is my real hair,
and Kate Winslet's like, I want to be just like
you someday is very sweet. Oh that's awesome, you know.

(17:28):
So as old Rose starts to tell her story, we
flash back to nineteen twelve. Titanic is about to embark
on its maiden voyage. People are boarding the ship, including
Rose played by Kate Winslet, her fiance Cal fiance Cal
Hockley played by Billy Zane, her mother Ruth. That's Francis Fisher,

(17:54):
and they are all fabulously wealthy with first class tickets.
M We cut to Jack Dawson played by Leonardo DiCaprio.
Of course, he's playing poker with his best friend for Brizzio.
Oh my gosh, that's Danny Nucci. I have a fund,
I have two fun Danny Nucci facts hit me. Danny

(18:15):
Nucci is also in the commentary track, and he's just
a kick. Things about Danny Nucci include he was able
to so Danny Nucci lived in Italy for the first
seven years of his life but did not speak Italian.
I personally, I think what I've learned in the last
couple of years is that, like sometimes when Italian accents
sound fake, they're actually not. Case in point, Lady Gaga

(18:38):
and House of Gucci. Her accent sounds extremely fake, but
then if you listen to the person that she's playing,
it's sometimes they just sound weird. I don't know, but
like apparently Danny Nucci like fudged a little bit and
like Little White Lie was like, yeah, I'm Italian, but
like spoke in an accent at his addition, and was

(19:01):
able to fool James Cameron and the producers, and then
when he got the part, he was like, I'm not
actually Italian, and they're like, well, can you speak Italian?
And then he had to like take classes really abruptly
so he could do the because he occasionally speaks at
Italian in the movie. Also another evil James Cameron anecdote,
Danny Nucci had his first kid while Titanic was in

(19:25):
production and he was given one and a half days
off yikes, And finally iconic Danny Knucci said, there's good
anecdotes about the two bands that appear in this movie.
The Irish band below decks and then the band that
plays to the end on the top deck, and they're

(19:45):
like a Swiss band, but apparently like Danny Nucci and
the Irish Band got along famously, and Danny Knucci would
bring out his guitar and they would play Oasis together
like between takes. Okay, it's great love it yeah, oh okay.
So Jack and Fabrizio are playing poker against these two

(20:08):
Swedish guys who have bet their third class tickets too Titanic,
and Jack wins the hand of poker because he's got
a full house boys whoa, and so he wins the tickets.
But Titanic is leaving in five minutes, so Jack and
Fabrizio make a mad dash and board the Titanic. We

(20:32):
are also seeing the extravagance of Rose and Cal in
first class juxtaposed against the bare bones conditions of third class,
where Jack and Fabrizio are. Yeah, there's a fun little
acta about like just I don't know, like little things
that I was like, oh, I wouldn't think about who

(20:52):
would be doing that, But like James Cameron, because he's
just like kind of a weird guy, was really like
there's a scene where it's like Rose has her picassos
and her day gauze and all this stuff, and like
James Cameron like spent a bizarre amount of time looking
for someone to do that, and like ended up finding
this obscure artist that lived in the middle of Canada

(21:15):
and like hired her to do It's like all the
same artists who did all of those paintings. Interesting. Also,
the dog Old Rose has the dog of the little Pomeranian, Yeah,
which I guess is a nod to there were three
dogs that survived the Titanic and the two of them
were Pomeranians and one was a Pekinese. And no one

(21:39):
ever talks about the Titanic dogs. It might be the
only angle from which that story has not been exploited. Wow,
Titanic puppies. I guess I've got a screenplay of write
who would be the Titanic puppies. It would be like
Anna Taylor, Joy, Kevin Hard, and Dave Batista are the
Titanic puppies. Wow, food for thought. Okay, I'm not mad

(22:03):
about it, yep. Oh okay. So we see first class passengers,
third class passengers. We also see no second class passengers.
Really not a lot of interests class wow, second class eraser,
middle class eraser much Hello? Well heyy you're telling me

(22:26):
folks um. We also see the people in the boiler
rooms who are like shoveling coal to power the ship.
We're seeing wild fact about the boiler room. Due to
something something the budget, they couldn't afford to build the
boiler room to the full size they wanted to. So
there's like a lot of things done in the boiler

(22:47):
room set to make the boilers appear like there's more
of They use like a mirror effect to make it
seem like they're twice as many as there actually were.
But also they couldn't afford to build the boilers as
big as they should have been, so instead they hired
shorter actors to play the boiler room guys. So they
were like, I don't know if this was hyperbole or not,

(23:08):
but like John Landau was like, yeah, we we just
had to make the boilers like we were positioning the
camera as if the actors were like six foot four.
But I don't think we hired an actor who was
like above five foot three. We just hired a lot
of like shorter actors so that the boilers would look bigger.
That's some like forced perspective, hobbit, Lord of the Ring stuff.

(23:33):
It's pretty brilliant, but that's boiler room facts with Jamie
Beautiful love it. So yeah, we're seeing just like the
scale and the glory that is Titanic. Shortly after this
is when we see the scene where Jack is like
looking at dolphins and then he goes, I'm king of

(23:54):
the world. Woooo And on that note, let's take a
quick break and then we will come right back. And
we are back, okay. So then we meet the unsinkable
Molly Brown played by Kathy Bates. We meet mister Andrews.

(24:18):
That's Victor Garber, who almost didn't get the part because
the casting director sent was like, Jim, you gotta check
out this guy. He looks like Thomas Andrews and he's
very talented, and then she sent him the wrong video.
She sent him like a video of some guy in
a bow tie that looked nothing like Thomas Andrews, and
James Camramon was like, um, I'm not seeing it, and

(24:40):
she was like, oh, no, wrong video. And then he
got the part. Oh, and we're so glad. Mister Andrews,
of course, is the like engineer who designed the ship.
We also meet Bruce Ismay played by Jonathan Hyde. He
was the chairman and managing director of the White Star Line,
who the two historical characters that both the producers and

(25:04):
James Cameron seemed to have like repeatedly acknowledged that they
felt like the only historical figures that they felt that
they potentially did a disservice too were Bruce Asmey, who
I think was like a bad guy but not as
bad as the movie makes him out to be. And
James Cameron sort of was like, yeah, I took a
lot of dramatic license there. Like he did get into

(25:26):
a boat. It was rumored that he had put some
pressure to make the boat go faster, but also he
stayed on the boat until the very last minute and
rescued a lot of people, and like there were like
there's a lot of gray area. I guess, so, which
I don't really care about. The Officer Murdoch conversations a
little more interesting because Officer Murdoch is for I mean,

(25:51):
I guess for the it's hard to keep all the
officers straight. He's the one that kills Tommy and then
takes his own life in the movie. Is also a
lot of creative license. And his family reached out to
James Cameron and was like, what the fuck and James
Cameron was like, um, yeah, like it technically could have happened,

(26:11):
because apparently, historically usually when something's like creative license, James
Cameron has done the work to make it like, well,
you can't say it didn't happen. Like even the room
that Rose stays in in the movie was technically empty,
so it's like, well, that's where I'm going to put

(26:32):
them because you can't prove someone else was there. But
in that case, it was like there were rumors of
like several gunshots that went off in an area where
Officer Murdoch was but obviously Tommy Ryan as a fictional character,
so he was not killed by Officer Murdock. He didn't exist,
but there is like no I think that there was

(26:54):
like one speculation that Murdoch may have taken his own life,
but there's like basically no historical precedent for it. So
his family was rather upset that that was the narrative
imposed on him. Yeah, and taking bribes as well, There
was no evidence that he took bribes. Sure, he kind
of he kind of got fucked a little thought sucks,

(27:17):
but yeah, Hollywood loves embellishing facts. Yeah, I mean, it
is a dramatic effect. But as far as like, as
far as historical movies getting things right, this movie gets
more right than it does. So there you got and
we love that. Yeah. Speaking of Tommy, we meet Tommy.

(27:38):
He befriends Jack and Fabricio. He's played by Jason Barry.
I never bothered to look up who played Tommy before this,
and I was like, oh, that's a good named Jason Barry.
He was on the commentary track and he just said
like he's actually Irish. Wow, authenticity. Yeah, unlike Danny Nucci
over here, who's like um bon Jorg Showork like um okay.

(28:03):
So we meet a few of these characters. We're hanging
out with Jack and Fabrizio on deck, and this is
when Jack sees Rose across the deck of the ship
and he's like hubba hubba schwing o wouga speaking of
a wooga. Oh my god. That's a James Cameron story

(28:25):
that has nothing I thought. I thought. I thought Caitlin
had nothing to do with Titanic. I thought that there
is listeners there is. I think I probably referenced it
in our Avatar episode as well. James Cameron, whenever he
goes on a press tour, he says a bunch of
stuff that's awful, and then a bunch of stuff that
is incoherent. One of the things he said on this
press tour that was incoherent, wasn't that At times when

(28:49):
he's on set the set for Avatar, he will not
respond to anyone unless they first use a deafening a
wooga sound. And that's how he knows that it's important
enough that it requires his precious baby boy attention. So
when I was watching behind the scene featurettes of this movie,
I can't prove that the Aluga thing has been true

(29:10):
for a long time. But in the big the ship
is sunk, everyone's flailing around. That was filmed I think
in like a I think it was Burbank, like it
was somewhere close by, Like it was just a large
tank in Burbank with like four feet of water. And
that's where the I'll Never Let Go scene was filled.
In all that, there is a moment in the featurette

(29:32):
it's not called attention to, but knowing what we know
now about James Cameron and Ouga, James Cameron is not
talking to anybody. Allowed auga sounds scent like is sounded
and then all of a sudden, he goes, what, I
think the AUGA system has been in place for decades? Wow, Look,

(29:54):
is there any or any of James Cameron's long time
employees listening to this show? Can we get some confirm
on the AUG I was shocked. I was knocked on
my ass by this. That's fascinating. I'm not surprised though,
it's it sounds like he's been an absolute tyrant for
a very long time. But but the AUGA system specifically,
I'm like, that is some evil genius shit, Like, what

(30:18):
on earth? I think we can date Auga back to
ninety six. I support it. Yeah. So Jack is seeing
Rose and he's like, hubba, hubba, who's that? And his
friends are like, yeah, right, dude, she's rich and you're poor.
It'll never work out. You'll have angels flying out of

(30:39):
your ars, etc. Before you get next to the likes
of her, says Tommy. Um, classic Tommy. There's also there
was like a fight with James Cameron and the costume
designer for that scene where I guess Rose like woman
would wear hat if outside that is like a thing

(31:01):
of the time, and so they were kind of getting
into it because James Caramon's like, I don't want a
floppy old hat on Kate Winslet's head, Like it would
look goofy if she was wearing a big floppy hat
when Jack sees her, but he said, well, she's already
rebelled against everything else. And then he took the hat
off Kate Winslet's head and threw it into the ocean

(31:21):
because he's a drama queen. And the costume designer, I think,
was like, okay, that was and then they shot the scene.
I know he's a he's a piece of work. I
don't know what to make of the man. He's really
a piece of work. Into the ocean, like so not necessary,

(31:42):
very dramatic. Yeah, okay. So Jack has spotted Rose, but
they don't meet until that night when Rose attempts suicide
by jumping off the ship. Yeah. She feels trapped by
her position in life. She feels trapped in this relationship
with cal who is controlling and abusive, so she makes

(32:06):
this attempt but Jack sees her, realizes what's happening, and
he stops her. He saves her. Here's what James Cameron
had to say about this. It made me laugh. When
you think about it, it's sort of a risky proposition
for two people to meet in the middle of an
attempted suicide. But that's long pause, that's what happens here.

(32:30):
I mean, there's no arguing that. Sometimes he talks about
his own movies as if he has no control over
what happens in them, and a way that makes me life.
He's like, I don't know, I guess that's just how
it went. His argument for a long time before he
commissioned this scientific study to figure out if two people

(32:51):
could have actually fit on the door and survived. His
argument before that was Jack dies in the script, so
he to Dot, She's like, yeah, you wrote that in
the script. You literally have control over this, But like,
I guess, whatever you want. There was also kind of

(33:12):
a because I think at the time this movie came out,
It's it's kind of interesting how like Kate Winslet and
James Cameron's relationship seems to have changed over time, because
at the time the movie came out, I kind of forgot,
like it was like heavily rumored that, like Kate Winslett
hated him, never wanted to work with him again because
she got hypothermia on set, Like who would want to

(33:32):
work with him again after that, but then time passed
and now she's an avatar too, like they made she
got into a tank for the man again. So it
seems like the relationship repaired over time. But it's interesting
to hear, like there are a couple of anecdotes that
Kate Winslett shares on this commentary track where you're like
she was not having a good time with the scene

(33:55):
where she is attempting suicide. She's talking about how how
they had to shoot it so many times because that
was a green screen in a way that you can
tell too, but like whatever was nineteen ninety seven, but
they had to shoot it over and over and over
to the point where she couldn't get herself to cry
as much, Like she just was like spent and couldn't

(34:17):
get herself to cry. And so someone on the production
I have a guess as to who was like just
blow air in her face until she starts crying, and
so they like blew a fan in her face until
her eyes watered and then they're like all right, start again,
and you're like, Jesus Christ is poor and she's like
twenty years old. You know, it's like they're no one

(34:39):
talks back in those situations, and I just was like,
bless her, that's not my Mara veast Town. Tell you what,
I love that lady. She seems so great. Yeah. The
abuse that actors and performers have to endure not cool. Yeah, okay,
So Jack saves Rose saying if you jump, I'm going

(35:02):
to have to jump in there after you because that's absurd.
Then Cal and some of the crew show up to
the scene and they're like, what's going on? And Rose
is like, oh, I was just leaning over and I
slipped and Jack saved me. I was leaning far over
for the propellers, they had a hard time finding Cal.

(35:22):
And then you know what they did? What they saw
The Phantom Is that a movie that Billy Zane. It
is a movie that Billy Zane was in which he
plays a super He plays a superhero called the Phantom.
And then I've never seen it either. I just think
it is a very if you look at like the
visuals and like the trailer for that movie, it's very
weird to be like I would see that movie and

(35:44):
be like, yep, he should be in Titanic because it's
like just a super campy superhero movie. Where he's like,
I am the Phantom, like it's very it's so Billy
Zane is so iconic, like I'll never get over it.
He was, Oh, wait, I need to tell you the
Billy Zane arts and crafts story. He was just really

(36:05):
like people seemed to everyone who talked about Billy Zane
seemed to be like, and he is just what a character.
They're like, Leo and Billy just had us roll. In
twenty five eight, John Lando said Billy isn't artiste, and
then Billy Zane says that he turned so like the

(36:26):
whole as you know, Caitlin and maybe some of our
listeners know, the way that the Titanic set was built
was that they built half of it in Mexico and
then a lot of it is like reverse shots. But
so they had to like move the entire cast and
crew to Mexico for months. So Billy Zane turned his
apartment in Mexico into it sounds sort of like he's

(36:49):
slowly losing his grasp on reality. But you let me know,
he sort of seems to feel that way too. He's like, yeah,
you know, just these long days are in a place
you don't know anybody, and I I just sort of like,
I like to express myself, and I turned my apartment
into an art studio and I started mates. I started
quote doing a lot of abstract expressionism, okay, And he says, like,

(37:12):
I was going very polic at the time. It was rough,
you know, it got a little weird out there, but
arts and crafts pulled me through, which I think is
a beautiful outlook on life. And a lot of people
Billy's I think we sent them to each other at
the time. But Billy Zane took all these amazing candids
on the set of Titanic because he was an artiste,

(37:33):
and he like will occasionally post them to Instagram, and
they're all the best. Oh, Billy King, King of the
world even Okay, So they're like, wow, Jack, you've saved Rose.
You're a hero, and you should come have dinner with
us tomorrow night. And he's like okay. And then later

(37:56):
that evening, when Cal and Rose are back in their rooms,
Cow gives Rose the heart of the Ocean and he's like,
I know you've been melancholy, and I don't pretend to
understand why, but here's a very expensive diamond necklace. And
she's like oh. The next day, Rose pays Jack a

(38:19):
visit to thank him for saving her and for his discretion,
and he's like, do you even love cow? And she's like, ah,
you're being very rude, and then they argue a bit,
but then she sees his drawings because Jack is an
artiste and they are drawings of naked sex workers in Paris.

(38:43):
He was not getting into abstract expressionist. He was pretty straightforward. Oh,
Tho'd be so funny if they if you cut to
like Billy's AND's abstract expressionist paintings, like in his binder
you mean in Jack's binders. Yeah, He's like, Um, I
don't know. I guess I just sort of don't know
anyone here and I'm just trying stuff out. That deck scene,

(39:03):
I guess that. I mean, I've seen I'm sure we've
both seen audition tastes like that was like the audition
scene for Titanic for one of them, But the way
that the scene is was rewritten the night before, and
there were all of these cool like for every peepee
poopoo naked story that Kate Winslett and Leonardo DiCaprio share,

(39:25):
of which there are many, there's fart in the jacket,
stick it in the face, surprise naked at him. There's
we would pee in the tanks all the time, like
she was, like Leo would eat a ton of garlic
on days we had to kiss to prank me. I
was just like, you guys are weird? You guys are
you guys are? It sounds very like weird sibling kind

(39:47):
of like antagonism. But but they also it was kind
of cool to like they were always especially Kate Winslett,
who I just love her so much, but like they
were always trying to like add in little things into
the movie. Because it sounds like Kate and Leonardo DiCaprio
both felt that the movie. They were worried that the

(40:09):
movie was going to be too corny and too earnest.
And I think that especially because it was like whatever.
DiCaprio was like like he almost didn't take the part
because he's like he's too perfect, Like we're's just damage
blah blah blah. And like Kate Winslet have played a
bunch of like complicated roles and it's not I mean,
ros is kind of a meteor role in Jack, but whatever.

(40:30):
Like I think that they were both trying to add in.
They're trying to get their little gen X two cents
in where they could, and so they went to James
Cameron when that scene was being like in the process
of being rewritten, and I guess that it was at
their insistence that Jack says like, well do you love
the guy or not? Like stuff like that, Like there's
a few lines in this movie that the way they

(40:52):
would rehearse. I also loved the way that they would
rehearse them, where like they would do it as written
and then James Cameron would have them do scene again.
The way that they would just talk to each other
to get like the cadence down for like, well, how
would you actually have this conversation, and then you would
do it as written again with the correct cadence, which
is pretty smart way to rehearse people. But like they

(41:14):
occasionally would like Caitlin's like got like a lot of
stuff into this movie. She is the person who said
that Rose should spit in Cal's face. Originally she was
poking him with a hairpin, but she was like, I
already learned how to spit, and then James Caermon was like, shit,
that should have been my idea. She and Francis Fisher
also suggest in their scene together where Francis Fisher's like

(41:36):
tying the corset, originally it was the reverse and Kate
Winslett was tying Francis Fisher's this corset and they were like,
it makes way more sense thematically if it's the other
way around, and James Carramon was like, Ash, maybe I'm
could have a screenwriter. It's like, yeah, not really, but
like I just thought it was fun where every time
there was a point where it's like, oh I got

(41:58):
that in, I was like, that's so cool. That is
very cool, And I'm glad that James Cameron like listens
to reason and lets his Yeah, he seems grouchy, but
it's like it seems like when someone else has a
better idea. This is like not a huge compet but
it's like if someone else has a better idea, he
will go with that idea. That's good. Yeah, let's take

(42:19):
another quick break and then we will come back for
more Titanic and we're back. Okay. So we have this
scene with Jack and Rose and it's a little rocky
here and there, but then she's like, let me look
at your sexy drawings and then she's like a wooga.

(42:42):
And then they're kind of like bonding and flirting, and
he teaches her how to spit. Speaking of spitting, I
guess that they were spitting that the water seaged in
and that scene and they were spitting onto like the
floor of a parking lot, and Leonardo DiCaprio like set
up these little targets on the ground. Would like to

(43:03):
hit my little target. Wow. I love fun facts. Okay.
So meanwhile, Bruce Ismay is pressuring Captain EJ. Smith played
by Bernard Hill. I want them to model her speed. Yeah,
And he wants the captain to light the last four
boilers so that the ship goes really fast and gets

(43:26):
to New York City early ever heard of New York City? Yeah,
because the maiden voyage of Titanic must make headlines. That
actor fucking rules. Apparently, like he and Francis Fisher are
good friends, and so even in scenes that he wasn't
in that Francis Fisher was in, he would like come

(43:46):
to set those days and watch her work. He was,
so I was like, oh, it's kind of fun. Mister
Ame was sitting just off screen for that whole mother daughter.
Of course, it's seen he's there. That's nice. I know
he's just supporting his friend. Okay, So then it's time
for dinner. Molly Brown dresses Jack in her son's tuxedo,

(44:09):
and then Jack joins Rose and Cow and Ruth and
a bunch of other rich, first class people for dinner.
Ruth and Cal think Jack is gross, but Rose is like, wow,
I like him, a free spirit. Here's a Molly Brown fact, please,
So Molly Brown. She's very characterized as new money and

(44:35):
James Cameron takes a little bit of creative license with
her in this where it's like she was a big personality,
but also she was I guess in real life was
like pretty dead set on fitting in and would not
speak out as quite as much as she does in
the movie. I'm glad she does in the movie. But
there is like a fun and not finding who cares.

(44:57):
It's just like rich people shit. But there's like a
brief converse station with John Jacob Astar, who is like
the richest man in America at the time, and his
teenage wife, and every account is like he doated on
his wife, and you're like, okay, like she was a teenager,
but I guess he died, but apparently they were like
really good friends, and so, like James Cameron tried to

(45:18):
add in, like there's like a scene, there's like an
exchange where Kathy Bates is like, hey asked her? Yeah,
so that is a reference to like how she used
to talk to him, And I guess that, like the
reason that he liked her was because everyone treated him like,
you know, god, and she was like really she treated
him like a person, and he's like, go on, They'd

(45:39):
like been on vacations together. There's a picture of them
on camels. So it turns out, I mean, it's like,
I know whatever, you know that like people knew each
other on this boat. But I was like, oh, Molly
Brown actually lost like a dear friend and it was
just some rich guy with a teenage wife. So ultimately,
who cares. Estimately I don't feel that bad, but personally

(46:01):
must have been heard for her. Yeah that's true, Yeah,
poor Molly. Yeah, um okay. So after dinner, Jack to
Rose is like, so you want to go to a
real party, and he invites Rose to a third class
party below deck and it's a good ass time. Rose

(46:23):
is chugging beer, she's smoking cigarettes, she's doing this tippytoe
ballet thing where she was on wires for that. Oh okay,
quick dancing facts with Jamie. Kate Winslett and Dicabrio had
to be trained to dance, and this is them doing
all the dancing. Kate Winslett. All of these stories are like,

(46:44):
Kate Winslett was lovely and so great. Leonardo DiCaprio was
like pretty good, which I would also describe their caliber
of performances in this movie. Yeah, but apparently, like again,
I don't know, it just sounds like Leonardo DiCaprio is
in his like pussy posse. I'm a little shit era
during this because he, like I guess, would really avoid

(47:05):
the dance lessons. He like didn't want to do them.
And I know, I'm just like you fucking brat, But
this is a fun story where the dance coach also
like the dance coaches on the commentary track, it's very comprehensive. Wow,
but the dance coach was like, yeah, like Kate was
having a hard time, but she worked really hard at
it and she picked up on it pretty quickly. I

(47:25):
was proud of her, and I was like, Leo was
always avoiding me and he didn't want to go to
the lessons and every time and she was like, I
would have to come to his trailer between takes to
like help him learn like the clogging dance that he does,
because that was, like, I mean, it wouldn't have been easy.
And she was like, and he eventually learned, but I

(47:46):
would always have to knock on his trailer for a
while and tell him to put his pet lizard away
before I could come in. He had a pet lizard
on set all the time. He had a lizard named
Blizzard that like lived with him in Mexico. And I
guess that the dance. Every time the dancing startor came by,

(48:06):
she'd have to like pound on his trailer door and
be like, put the lizard away, it's dancing time. And
he'd be like no, They're like what it really like,
I don't. I have no particular attachment to Leonardo DiCaprio.
I'm too old for him, but I was really endeared

(48:27):
to him when I found out that he had a
lizard friend with him the whole time. I'm like, wow,
people really were. It sounds like people were really in
a strange place mentally on the set of Billy Zane's
making abstract art. Leo is spooning his lizard Lizard. It
sounds like everyone's in a very, very like weird place

(48:50):
with here. But I was like, I wonder whatever became
a Blizzard the Lizard. I haven't been able to find
pictures of him, damn her. I don't know, I don't
know them, I don't I don't know what was going
on with Blizzard. But I just wanted to say, of
course there wouldn't be a record of Blizzard. Blizzard, but
he saved Leonardo DiCaprio in every way a person can

(49:11):
be saved. Okay, Okay, so we're belowdeck at the party.
Jack and Rose are really having a blast. They're spinning.
The scene ends and what is essentially a congo line.
The next day, Wait, Kaitlyn, I found a picture of

(49:31):
Leo and Blizzard. Whoa, I'm texting it to you right now. Okay, Wait,
they're actually Oh god, why was he so hot during
this time? Why is the picture of him and Blizzard sexy? Wow?
He actually there's actually like a bunch of pictures of
him on the set of Titanic with Blizzard. Okay, he
like loves this. It reminds me of men are so

(49:56):
like something is so wrong with them, where like I
read I read recently, I forget what I watched. Oh
I watched Ticket to Paradise with Julia Roberts and George Clooney.
I didn't finish it, to be honest, but I was
reading about George Clooney and George Clooney ended a marriage

(50:17):
because one of his why and one of his ex
wives was like, I'm really sick of your pet pig,
and I guess that it reached the he has I
think the pig is no longer with us. But he
had a pet pig forever and it was big, and
at one point, allegedly one of his marriages pre amal,

(50:38):
someone said it's me or the pig, and he said
get out. He said, I choose the pig. He chose
the pig. Wow, which I would never recover from that.
But all that to say, yeah, Leo and his lizard,
George and his pig. Great love that. There's pictures of

(51:00):
Leo and Blizzard that actually makes me happy. They're very nice.
Oh no, well, we'll post the pictures on the Instagram
when this episode comes out. Oh okay, so sorry. The
next morning after this party, Cal and Rose are having breakfast,
and Cal screams at her and he flips a table

(51:22):
for hanging out with Jack instead of him, because he
had his undertaker of a man servant follow Rose, this
guy named love Joy. Yeah. Ruth also gets on Rose's case, saying,
you cannot see that boy again because it turns out
that Rose and Ruth's family money is gone and that

(51:43):
Rose needs to marry Cal and like have access to
his fortune to ensure Rose and Ruth's survival. R So,
basically Rose needs to stop jeopardizing her relationship with Cal.
Frances Fisher had like a really nice or I guess
like it just like a very thoughtful kind of like
meditation on that scene, and she like, she seems really sweet.

(52:07):
She's saying that, how like in the ten years since
Titanic could come out, there were a lot of like
younger fans, and I know I was in this. I
think that like early in this show, we weren't even
quite a like comprehension place where it's like, why is
that mom so mean? And like Frances Fisher was like
fielding questions like this from young fans of Titanic for

(52:29):
years who viewed her as a villain, which there are
villain as, you know whatever. But she she did a
really I think, like concise way of just like talking
about how she would talk to younger fans of the movie.
And she's like, no, I understand why you feel that way.
You have to understand. Like she's like, it doesn't make
what she did right. But women had no options at

(52:51):
this time, they couldn't vote, they were already in a
precarious position. She should have been thinking about her daughter's
mental well being, but she was thinking about immediacy. And
she said, quote, Ruth's pain is that her daughter will
not be able to experience safety unquote. And I thought
that was a very empathetic view of that character. Yeah,

(53:14):
I agree. Yeah, Okay, So with all this pressure from
her mom, Rose relents and she tells Jack that she
cannot see him again. And he is like, oh, they've
got you trapped, Rose, and you need to break free.
You can do it. You're the most amazing, wonderful girl
I've never known. And then we're like wow, King, but

(53:42):
she's not having it and she leaves. Meanwhile, mister Andrews
is giving a little tour to the rich people, and
Rose figures out that there are not enough lifeboats on
board for all the passengers. Also, Captain E. J. Smith
is getting Iceberg warnings and were like, um foreshadowing much

(54:05):
and history fat apparently for this for this movie, the
original like manufacturers of the Titanic, Harland and Wolf or
one of the original manufacturers, gave James Cameron access to
Thomas Andrews earlier drawings and gave him access to his
journals and process and so this production was the first

(54:29):
to confirm, even before history books, that there had been
versions of the Titanic in which there were enough lifeboats,
but that like, like he says in the movie, like
it was considered to make the deck look too cluttered,
and so they were gotten rid of. So that was
actually breaking freaking news. Wow, I know, kind of cool.
Um Okay. So then after having told Jack that she

(54:52):
can't see him anymore, she's like, wait a minute, fuck this,
and then she goes back to Jack. He's at the
I believe the bowl of the ship, the front of it.
He's brooding. But she's like, Jack, changed my mind, and
it's sunset, and he's like, get up here. So she
like hims on the railing of the ship. And he's

(55:14):
like close your eyes, and then he like spreads out
her arms and she opens her eyes and she's like,
I'm flying and then then I'm and then I'm crying
and it's all a lot. This is a very commonly
circulated anecdote, but for that scene, some of the shots
are done with a Matt painting of the sunset, but

(55:35):
the big kissing shot was done with an actual sunset
and they waited for forever. They were like whatever. It
was like they had two chances at the shot, and
Kate Winslet it was what, I don't know. I feel
like Kate Winslet and James Cameron, their relationship is so confusing,
but like this was a positive anecdote with them, where
Kate and Lee are up on the railing and then

(55:57):
there's one one of the takes where Kate Win's was
like we need to go right now, and James Cameron
like listened to her and started shooting, and that is
the shot that's used in the movie. And apparently it's
a little bit out of focus because it was so
like she was like, you need to do it right now,
and he had them start shooting before they were fully focused. Checked. Yeah,

(56:18):
I can't tell, like I couldn't tell, but like apparently
that shot is a little bit out of focus. But
they both talk about that and they're like, that was
a beautiful collaborative moment, I know. And then she and
Jack kiss, kiss, kiss, yeah, and it's nice. And then
they go to her room and she shows him the

(56:39):
heart of the ocean and she's like, I want you
to draw me like one of your French girls wearing this,
wearing only this. And then he goes, yo woga sounds.
And then James Cameron goes, what what fun fact about
the drawing scene? M So Rose's nude, Jack's drawing her?

(57:02):
Everyone knows that's actually James Cameron drawing. We will not
rehash that. A new thing I learned was that, you
know how like in the music in that scene is
like just a single piano playing the Rose theme A
fun uh. I love fun facts. So James Horner may
he rest in peace, huge collaborator of James Cameron, amongst others.

(57:27):
But there was like a file confusion where so I
guess that like James Horner had recorded himself playing this
track on the piano himself as like a test of
like it would sound something like this, and like, I
don't know what the nineteen ninety six version of the

(57:49):
Cloud was, but uploaded it to like a mutual server
with the file names sketch sketch meaning this isn't finished,
this is a rough draft, right, James Cameron sees a
final named sketch and thinks it's for the sketching scene.
And so because I guess James Cameron did a lot
of editing or like pre editing for this movie, and

(58:12):
there was like he was trying to get this scene
together and was like, oh, this isn't quite syncing up,
like I don't really know what he's thinking with this,
but then figures it out and then it's like, wait,
I love this. This like is perfect. It's so like
spare and beautiful, and he like called James Horner and
he's like, I love sketch and James Harder's like, what
are you talking about? And I guess that, like James

(58:36):
Horner like had to really be talked into like letting
them use that in the final cut of the movie,
because he was like, I had a whole plan and
James Cameron's like, no, this is good. I love sketch. Wow,
I know it isn't that sweet. It's very sweet. Yeah,
the movies, the movie really feeling like a movie in
this scene, tell you what it really is. Okay. So

(59:01):
she's like, draw me like one of your French girls,
and then he draws her like one of his French girls.
It's the drawing we saw at the beginning, and it
was the most erratic moment of Rose's life up until
that at least. And then you cut to Bill Paxson horny. Okay.

(59:21):
Then love Joy, who is still following Rose at Cal's behest,
comes in and starts chasing Rose and Jack around the ship.
They end up in like the storage compartments where all
of like the big crates and cars are being stored,
and they get into a car and Jack is like

(59:42):
bebe where to miss and She's like into the stars.
And then she pulls him into the back seat and
she says, put your hands on me, Jack, and then she,
cheering to quote the script, slides under his welcome weight.
Now that's something that comes up in all seven episodes,
and it should It is just not okay that that's

(01:00:03):
the way that that was written down. No one should
have said that. No one should have thought that and
James Cameron should have had to pay some sort of fine,
He should have to chop all of his fingers off.
He Oh my god, what is give me James Cameron's
Banshees of Innisharon? Honestly? Like who is he sending his

(01:00:28):
damn fingers too? Like? Who? I wonder if there has
to be a director that James Cameron can't stand right,
Like I know that Del Toro is one of his
best friends and he has a lot of good seems
like in terms of like I mean, and this means
nothing because it's like among male otours, he seems to
be pretty well liked. But I'm like, there has to

(01:00:48):
be someone who's on his shit list? Oh who is
he mail in those fingers too? I want to know?
Or Banshees of Innisharon where El Toro is Colin Farrell
and James Cameron is Brendan Gleeson, where one day James
Cameron's like, I don't want to be your friend anymore
and Del Toro was like, why that would be so sad? Well,

(01:01:12):
it was so sad, but it happened to Colin Farrell,
I know, And it's always so sad. It's the saddest
story about friends who are boys. Okay, So, so Jack
and Rose have sex in the back of the car
and this is when we get the hand slapping the
steamy window moment, iconic love it. Then they go back

(01:01:37):
up to the deck of the ship and Rose is like,
when the ship doks, I'm getting off with you, and
he's like, oh my god, what. And then they're kissing
and they're giggling and it's distracting the two lookouts who
are in like the crow's nest area. And that is
like a brilliant writing decision of like, um, they saw
people kissing and they got a horny. Therefore there they

(01:01:59):
have blood on their hands for the Titanic sunk um. Yeah. Yeah,
So they're too distracted to notice the iceberg that is
directly ahead of them. But then they look up and
they see the iceberg and they sound the alarm. Then
there is, in my opinion, maybe the best and most
tension filled sequence ever committed to film. For all of

(01:02:21):
the crew is scrambling around. They're trying to prevent the
ship from hitting the iceberg. There's this moment of is
it gonna hit is it gonna miss? Well, I don't
know which is well because you know how it is,
but it still makes you feel that way. But like
it so good, and my already very high opinion of
the sequence was further improved. There's like a million little

(01:02:44):
bit It's like that scene is also full of like
historical references too. Like that sequence specifically, there was a
lot of care taken to like reference survivors who were
very helpful in piecing together He's an account of what
actually happened. And so there's like one of the men

(01:03:05):
that worked in the engine room who is like a
huge source for like giving insight into what was going
on there. He like appears and like has a line
of dialogue. And then like there's just like all of
these like incidental players in the story that like helped
build out this clear picture that this movie is even
able to exist because of And I just I just

(01:03:26):
I love shit like that. I'm so glad that it's
like you take the time to like have this or
even shit like the fucking Pomeranian. You're like movie feels
like a movie, folks. I love it. James Cameron does
his research. He goes to the library and he reads
those books. He stays, he and he stays for more
than a day. I actually don't think he goes to

(01:03:48):
the library. Someone goes on his behalf and a photocopy,
a lot of stuff. I don't know how much he
leaves his house brings a library to him, but he
consumes it is the point. Yes, yes, so anyway, so
there's this very tension filled moment and ultimately, historically famously
the Titanic hits the iceberg and it is blink chaos.

(01:04:13):
It goes Yeah. The fully artist was on the thing
being like, so it not a lot of people know this,
but when they hit the iceberg it kind of went boink.
What if it was like, what's the like I'm thinking
of like a like a an old tiny like a
Hannah barbera sound effect of like k like when Fred

(01:04:37):
flint Stone gets hit on the head, was like, that
should be a thing. Maybe that's a project I will
undergo where I because I'm already oh yeah, knee deep
in my re editing the endings of movies to make
them far more shrekky. And maybe I will read and
fully work re edit famous scenes of movies, changing the

(01:04:59):
fully around to make it really well exciting. That's what
I did with figure skaters during the Olympics, and it
got it ruined my life for a while. So just
be careful who you're fucking with, Okay, Yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah yeah. I watched an interview with James Camp. I'm
just I'm in the zone, like I know, he's not

(01:05:19):
a good person. I cannot stop watching there. I was
watching an interview he did at the time. Yeah, in
like ninety seven with famously disgraced Charlie Rose. But there
were two things he said in the interview that made
me laugh with then because I'm from the future and
they're not. But two things he said in the interview

(01:05:40):
that made me laugh was that he said several times
like oh, like he was talking about how whatever, like
you will not get engaged into the story of the
Titanic unless you care about the characters, and you also
can fully appreciate what the ship was in its heyday,
like what it meant. And he was like, well, you know,
like you can go on and on and on about

(01:06:02):
the power of the love between two people until you're
blue in the face. But I don't know why you
do that. And I was like, blue in the face interesting,
until you're blue in the face. Yeah, and thus Avatar
was born, and that he was foreshadowing himself hard and
then like at the end, famously disgraced Charlie, Rose asks like, oh,

(01:06:25):
are you going to keep making epics after this? And
he says he it's pretty funny. He was like, yeah, No,
I don't think I'm ever going to make another like
three hour movie. I don't think that I would do that.
And I was like, wow, well you're gonna say that
until you're blue in the face, my friend, because you're
about to make Avatar one and then two, and then three,

(01:06:49):
other four and then five. We're never going to escape,
all right, Okay? Moving on. So the ship hits the iceberg.
It's chaos as water starts cascading into the lower decks
of the ship and into the boiler room where the
workers are trying desperately to escape. Water starts seeping onto

(01:07:11):
the floors of the third classrooms. Meanwhile, first class people
are like teh, what's going on? Then Jack and Rose
go to tell Ruth and Cal about the ship hitting
the iceberg and the gravity of the situation, but Cal
is busy framing Jack for stealing the heart of the Ocean,

(01:07:33):
and Jack gets arrested and handcuffed to a pipe in
the Master at Arms office, and Rose is like, damn,
I guess my boyfriend who I met two days ago
is a thief that sucks. Life comes at you fast,
like yeah, And then mister Andrews is having a meeting

(01:07:54):
with Bruce Ismay and the Captain and a VHS tape
one We're in it, baby, saying the ship will sink.
It's a mathematical certainty. We've got an hour two of
the most and then the captain turns to Bruce's million says,
I believe you make it your headlines mysteries may and
then we go because it's like the most iconic. I maybe,

(01:08:18):
like there are so many amazing lines, but I do
think that that's my favorite. It's really good because it
has like this like generational significance too, Like I understand
like if a seventeen year old watched this movie, there's
no way that would be their favorite line. But I
feel like the VHS split it has a generational significance.

(01:08:40):
It's true, it's my favorite line in the movie. And
also I'm like Bitchie much Captain Smith, what do you like?
You did it? Like? Okay? Quick fun fact. I think
maybe we've I feel like maybe we've referenced this before.
But Bernard Hill, who plays Captain Smith, was the only
cast member, which is like, this makes sense, but he

(01:09:02):
was the only cast member to have previously also been
in a different Titanic movie. Have we ever talked about that?
Whoa oh, you mean kind of like how oh, what's
the SpongeBob voice actor who was in both Pinocchio, Tom
Kenny Tom Kenny. Yes, it's Tom Kenny. It's the Tom
Kenny Pinocchio syndrome. The ground was set by Bernard Hill

(01:09:22):
and Titanic properties. But other Titanic movie was he in?
He was in A Night to Remember, I think, the
second most famous Titanic movie that came out. I believe
in the fifties he would have been a small child. Yeah, no,
he was a young man. I think that he is
like in the because this is the nineties. It's like
forty years later. So I think, you know, Bernard Hills
like in his maybe late sixties or like sometimes somewhere

(01:09:43):
in his sixties, Susan his early twenties. But he plays
the part of Officer Fleet, who I believe is one
of the guys that spots the iceberg in A Night
to Remember and he, I guess there's like a fun
I keep saying there's a fun anecdote, but but I'm right.

(01:10:03):
One of the producers was talking about how like Bernard Hill,
you know, he was like, he'd played Officer Fleet and
now he's playing the captain forty five years later. How wild?
And so he spoke with the actor who plays Officer
Fleet in this movie, and again, I just I'm like,
the more you just hear about the actors, it just

(01:10:24):
sounds like they are really like it felt like it
sounds like they were going through what we as a
world would go through during lockdown, where you're just like
kind of stuck somewhere and you're just kind of like
something is different in your brain but you can't but
there's no one like completely with it to verify that with.

(01:10:45):
So the guy who played Officer Fleet had been in
Mexico where he didn't know anybody for six weeks and
then met Bernard Hill and he was like, Hey, how
long were you on set waiting to do your scenes
for A Night to Remember? And Bernard Hill was like,
m two hours. You all this poor guy is like

(01:11:11):
losing it and it's like not himself anymore, and Bernard
Hills like, I don't know, kind of back then you
would just kind of go to burbank and like say
your lines and get the fuck out, like and it
just sounded very I don't know. I guess if I
was an older actor, I would um, I would clown
on younger actors in a similar way. I'd be like, yeah,

(01:11:32):
must suck for you. Anyways, Anyways, the part that I
formerly played Justice or else, I'm gonna bully you. I
don't know. Why don't they turning? I wonder if it
was that guy or the other guy. I don't know,
I don't know. Yeah, okay, So the crew starts loading

(01:11:52):
the first class passengers into the lifeboats, women and children first,
of course, which was not maritime law. That was usual.
Oh generally it was every man for himself. Oh yeah,
so so that's happening. The string quartet is playing. Rose
is about to get on a lifeboat with her mom

(01:12:13):
and Molly and the other rich women, and then Cal
says something very cow and shitty is this one? He says,
I should have kept that drawing. It would have been
worth a lot more by morning. Yeah, and so once
again she's like, fuck this. She says my favorite line
of the movie to Cal, which is you unimaginable bastard,

(01:12:35):
you bits in his face. Kate winslet baby, Oh, it
wouldn't have worked with it with a hairpin. Grow up right. Oh,
it's so good the way she does it, it's so cathartic,
it's wonderful. And then she runs off to go find Jack,
who is still handcuffed to a pipe and the room
that he's in is filling with water. Rose finds him,

(01:12:59):
but oh no, there's no key to the handcuffs, so
she goes and gets an axe. She chops the handcuff chain,
freeing him, and then they have to swim through the
freezing cold water back to safety. Jack and Rose then
link up with fabrit Ceo and Tommy. They're still below deck.

(01:13:19):
Wait at this point, has she already punched the employee
in the face. Yes, she does that right before she
finds the axe. Right, Okay. I wanted to just share
a quick anecdote about that before we get because the
third class fact that is like included in the movie
is that in the movie, it's like Tommy runs the

(01:13:42):
charge of like the bench through the Yea. So apparently
that actually did happen, and there was a bunch of
Irish third class passengers who did something very similar, which
I didn't know. I thought that was really cool that
they included that, but I wanted to share fun. James
Cameron another just James Cameron sitting in a room talking line,

(01:14:03):
because again he talks about all of his characters as
if someone else has written them, but in a way
where it's like he really likes the movie, he enjoys
watching it. So after Rose whatever, when Rose is coming
back down looking for the axe and there's like a
panicked employee, he's like, you have to come with me,
and she punches him in the face. James Cameron says,

(01:14:25):
quote Rose is all about getting people to listen to her,
and that's what you get, long pause if you don't
listen to Rose. He's kind of he's kind of talking
about nothing for most of it. But I was just
I was so delighted. I was like, you just sound
like a guy watching the movie. I mean, I imagine

(01:14:47):
it's very difficult to have to comment basically NonStop during
a three hour and fourteen minute movie, but you just
insisted on doing it by himself, Like I'm just like,
why didn't you just like invite a second purse? You know,
why are there fourteen people on one commentary track and
then you doing this for the other one. Yeah, but

(01:15:09):
it was but it was literally just like random things
like that. And then just like facts James Cameron knows
about the Titanic because ultimately that is why he did it.
He really just wanted an excuse to go explore the
wreckage of Titanic, and that is why the movie exists. Dude,
I respect the hell out of that as like, as

(01:15:29):
someone who has made their living just like getting other
people to pay for things that I wanted to do
anyways and then making something about it. It is the
perfect crime. Pretty cool. Yeah, works for everyone. Okay, So
Jack and Rose link up with Fabrizio and Tommy. They
are still below deck because while the first class people

(01:15:51):
are being loaded onto the lifeboats, the third class passengers
are being locked behind gates. So Jack and Tommy and
the other guys break down a gate back on deck.
It's chaos as people are trying to get on lifeboats
because there are famously not enough. Jack gets Rose to

(01:16:15):
a lifeboat and kl is there and he's like, I've
arranged for both Jack and I to get on a boat.
So she's like, okay, I'll get on this lifeboat. But
then she looks up at Jack and once again she's
like fuck this and she jumps and then Billy Zanne
gives another one of my like top ten line reads
of the movie. He's pretty heavily featured in my top

(01:16:37):
ten line reads. He goes one way or another. By
the way he says one way or another, I'm like,
how did you even do that? With your mouth? I
always win Jack one way or another? He says one
way or another as if it is like a single word,
Like you're just like, how did he do that? That
is so well? Okay, quick thing about DiCaprio that based

(01:16:59):
on because we've covered a number of Leonardo DiCaprio flimsy
on this podcast. We I believe it was the summer
of twenty twenty. I remember where it was when we
covered Inception, and we bravely made the connection that Leonardo
DiCaprio is constantly wet in clothes in his movies all

(01:17:19):
the time. It happens with alarming frequency. It happens in
almost every single one. It's kind of like it's in
his contract or something like I have to be in
clothes submerged in water. So imagine my shock when I'm
listening to the producer slash everybody Who's not James Cameron

(01:17:39):
commentary track that like, Leonardo DiCaprio is glaringly missing. He
was not available. He was inside of a bear or
whatever he was doing. Like yeah, but producer John Landau says,
very matter of factly, Leonardo DiCaprio hates acting in the water.
And I was like, wow, that's a shock from all

(01:18:00):
of his movies. And then Kate Winslet jumps onto that
and says that he was such a baby every time
he had to be in the water, and she I
think she was like a little she sounded ten years
later annoyed about it because she was just like She's like,
and it's just interesting because you know, he was in
the water for a lot of scenes, but not even

(01:18:21):
half as many scenes as I was in the water,
and I got hypothermia and I just like kind of
really didn't complain as much as he did on set.
But apparently, like even though the water scenes were interesting
to hear about again, it's like Kate Winslet is just
like left in the fucking trenches in this because in
spite of not lighting king to act in the water.
Leonardo DiCaprio is scuba certified for some reason. Okay, probably

(01:18:44):
because he's in the water all the time even before
this movie, so he's already scuba certified. But Kate Winslet,
there's like an anecdote in the scene where they're trying
to unlock the gate so that they don't drown. Yes,
in that scene, Kate Winslet had like a panic attack
on set because they were filling the set with water

(01:19:05):
like practical effects style, and so there were only a
couple of inches to breathe. But to James Cameron's credit,
like it seems like he did everything he could to
set up safety protocols and like there were rescue divers,
Like no one was significantly injured or died. It sounds
like the PCP thing was about as bad as it got.
But like the safety instructor showed Kate Winslett, like it

(01:19:28):
is gonna feel scary because there only will be a
couple of inches to breathe. But if you push up
on the ceiling, there is a ton of space and
you're fine, and that was like how the scene was
set up, and so she felt comfortable with that. But
then it happened that, like when they were doing a take,
she pushed up on the scene and the ceiling stuck

(01:19:48):
and so there was not infinite space and she had
like a panic attack. And then like I had to
take some time during the day like, yeah, I know,
it just this movie sounded like it sounded like everything
was done that was possible, but still it's like you're
sinking a boat every day. It just sounded terrible. Yeah,

(01:20:11):
I could not. Sorry, I was looking through our Instagram
to find the post that we made of all of
the like screen grabs from movies where Leonardo DiCaprio was
in water. He had been in water many times at
this point. The fact that he's still complaining about it
is unprofessional. And many times after Oh yeah, because we've
got Inception obviously Titanic, the Beach, Shutter, Island, Great gats Be,

(01:20:38):
Romeo and Juliet. He's in the water, is he not
Romeo and Juliet? That was pretty Titanic. He falls in
a pool in Wolf of Wall Street, he's in water.
In the Revenant, he falls into water and what's eat
and Gilbert Grape. It's just like he's always in water,
and he's always in his clothes in water. It's honestly, like,
with that in mind, it's absolutely shocking that Kate Winslet

(01:21:01):
is an avatar way of water and he isn't right, Like,
if there's anyone who's primed for being in the water,
it's dicapria. But apparently I was just I was truly
like shocked into Paul to hear that he didn't like it,
because not to empathize with him, because who cares, but
you're also like, wow, if he really truly doesn't like

(01:21:22):
acting in water, his life is a nightmare. Like he
literally does he know he's going to be in the
water for another fifteen years minimum, you know, like they're
not going to take him out of the tank. Like
I assumed he liked being in the water or why
would this be happening to him so much? But apparently
as of ninety seven, he did not like being the water.

(01:21:45):
He was peeing in the water, he was complaining about
the water. Blizzard starving to death off screen. Who knows
what's going on with Blizzard Blizzard the Lizard Blizzard the Lizard. Yeah, okay,
so roses in this lifeboat. But then she's looking up
at Jack and she's like, actually, no, I'm going to

(01:22:08):
jump off the lifeboat, jump onto Titanic and be with Jack.
And then she and Jack are running toward each other
and they so much meet up, and then they're kissing
and so beautiful. She's like, you jump by jump and
he's like, yeah, God, they're so ridiculous. I really I
really love them. That sequence never doesn't get me big time. See,

(01:22:33):
I'm just like, romance is dead. I have no feelings
and I only have feelings as ruined my life. It
gets me every time. If you want to feel some
technical distance from it. There's a fun they had to
like shoot that upshot of Leonardo DiCaprio, like when the
boat is lowering from both angles, because they only have
one side of the boat right and so apparently there's

(01:22:56):
a few cuts in the back and forth where or
DiCaprio's part will shift just so because so much of
this movie was shot in reverse, that I sent to
you something that I think should be back to cast
merch where something that wasn't completely symmetrical in its costuming
or whatever it was, such as lettering lettering, so like

(01:23:17):
a White star Line uniform that says white star Line.
They would have to shoot it not but for certain
scenes they would have to shoot it with a regular costume,
and then they would also have to shoot it with
a costume that just everything backwards, because they're like, oh,
well this is for this side of the boat, so
we're just going to reverse shot everything, so this will
make things easier. And I want a backwards White star

(01:23:40):
Line sweatshirt so bad. I really you can design that,
I know, and I feel like our listeners will value
it as well, and it's it's the best kind of
piece of clothing because it's like a little annoying but
not too annoying, which is my favorite, my favorite, and
it's like when you know, you know, yeah, And it's
also a conversation starter. But if you don't like, that's

(01:24:03):
fine and I'll keep walking. Yeah, I'm an adult, right, Okay.
So Rose has jumped off the lifeboat and met back
up with Jack, which makes cal Very upset that Rose
chose Jack over him. I hope you're all happy together.
He grabs love Joy's gun and starts shooting at them,
so they have to escape and run back down into

(01:24:25):
the bowels of the ship which are very full of water,
and there's this little boy that Jack and Rose try
to save. They almost get trapped behind another gate, but
they make it out at the last second. Quick thing
about the little boy that was shot obviously so that
there was no little boy stunt double that was knocked
over by fifty thousand tons of water, But in any case,

(01:24:47):
like the way that that scene was shot, I just
thought it was so interesting where in that scene a
stunt man and a little dummy of a little boy
are knocked over by a ton of water, and then
the cast off of that water, like a ton of water,
also hits Jack and Rose. That shot is one of
the first face swapping like deep fake shots ever committed

(01:25:11):
to film. That is not the actors, that's their stunt doubles,
because it was like, you couldn't ask an actor to
be hit with that amount of force. Those are stunt doubles.
And yeah, Leonardo DiCaprio and Caitlin's let's face Our Deep
faked onto that and I watched it to try to
see if, like how obvious it was. It didn't feel

(01:25:31):
super obvious to me. But I think we should go
back and watch it together sometime. But apparently that's like
one of the first deep fake shots ever done. Interesting,
I know it's mild. Well, Jamie come over literally whenever
to watch Titanic. I mean, like we will probably watch
it on tour and then also at the movies. The movies. Yeah,
we come to this place for Titanic. Oh baby, we'll

(01:25:54):
go into that place to laugh, to cry, to watch Titanic.
We are going to that place, okay. Meanwhile, cal is
trying to get on a lifeboat and he uses a
lost child as an excuse to get on. I have
a child, so iconic. Nearby, Captain E. J. Smith is disassociating, yes,

(01:26:17):
which is a creative choice by Bernard Hill. Mmmmmm. Interesting.
The band stops playing, but then one of them keeps
playing by himself, and then they all joined back in
It's beautiful. Then there's this montage where you see the
old couple in bed together is a door Strauss and
his wife real people, yes, In the scene with the

(01:26:40):
Irish woman and her children, that is we've talked about
this before. That was an actor named I don't remember,
but she was like a James Cameron you stand by character.
She had previously acted in brown face for him, which
is alien. We had that discussion in Aliens our Aliens episode.

(01:27:01):
But fun fact for Titanic, I feel like it is
very very well remembered that she talks to her children
about the land of tier Nanogue and an Irish folktale,
and she came up with that that was not a
James Cameron original. That was her doing research on a
bedtime story that an Irish woman of that time would

(01:27:23):
have told her kids, which I thought was really sweet cool,
that was nice. Yes, um, Okay, so we seeah, we
see the old couple, We see the Irish mummy with
her kids. We see all this chaos continuing to ensue
as half of the boat is now completely underwater. People

(01:27:43):
are falling off the ship into the water. The captain's
room floods, a smokestack falls over and crushes for Brizzio. Okay,
quick thing there. I'm sorry. I know we've been recording
this for nine hundred years. It's been eighty four years. Yes, okay,
So are you aware of the alternate Fabrizio death? Yes,

(01:28:04):
because it's in the screenplay. Okay, So I just wanted
to rehash it Fabrizio. Apparently it was shot so that
they had multiple options for Fabrizio to die, so by
the time between the script and the shooting, they were like,
we're not sure. We know this character is gonna die,
We're not sure how. Danny Nucci had some fun quotes

(01:28:24):
about it. He was just like, I died five or
six different times, and then I just had to go
see the movie and see what they chose. Wow, because
in the original, like the smokestack is cged in, so
like that shot very easily could have been him being like,
oh no, it's so wet, or like whatever. You know. Okay,
this did sound familiar, so you've probably told me before,

(01:28:46):
but it was just like fun to revisit. There is
a version of it that they shot that I haven't
seen before, but I'm sure he's just somewhere of Fabrizio
gets out of the wreck, paddles over to the lifeboat.
The cal is in gets up and says, you don't understand,

(01:29:08):
I have to go to a medica, like in his
Italian accent, that's definitely real. Whatever, and then cal wax
him with an oar on the head and says it's
that way and that's how he dies. He dies via
blunt trauma with Cal, and I think that everyone decided
that like Cal was maybe bad enough already and that

(01:29:32):
was maybe not need to commit murder, even though he
already tried to murder his fiancee and Jack Um, Yeah,
he was bad enough, But that was, like, I just
was wild. I think I had forgotten about that and
it was a wild thing to revisit. That's the version
that's in the draft of the screenplay that's readily available. Okay,

(01:29:55):
if you download the screenplay of Titanic, which you can
find online. It's very similar to the finished movie that
we all know and love, but there are a few scenes,
such as the Fabrizio death scene, that are pretty different
in this version of the script than what ends up
in the movie. But yeah, that's the version of his

(01:30:17):
death that is in that draft of the script. Pretty funny. Yeah, yeah,
So Fabrizio tragically dies via smoke stuck. Also, Tommy had
been shot a while back. I didn't put that in
when it actually happened. Yeah, Jack and Rose are running
to the other end of the ship the stern, trying

(01:30:40):
to stay on the ship as long as possible, and
Rose is like Jack. This is where we first met
Kate for those scenes because they were like chained or
like harnessed to the side of the boat. Like there
was like a set that was called like the rotating
poop deck for like those ending scenes where it would

(01:31:01):
just be like mechanically up and down. But it was
so difficult to navigate that Kate Winslet took it upon
herself again icon to put like basically a full makeup
kit in the pocket of her the big jacket where
the heart of the ocean is supposed to be, and
she would do her makeup touchups and Leonardo DiCaprio's makeup

(01:31:23):
touchups so that a makeup artist wouldn't have to get
like harnessed up onto the boat to fix them before shots.
She's the best. She rocks, I know, She's so cool.
Love it, brock, love it Okay. The stern. The stern
is rising up and up as the bow sinks. This

(01:31:46):
is when a guy falls off the ship and hits
the propeller and spins, which everyone I cannot even count. Yeah,
how many people I've been like I love the movie
Titanic and someone will be like, wow, the only thing
I remember from that movie is when the guy hits
the propeller. We talked about this very briefly in our
Avatar episode where like when push comes to shove, James

(01:32:07):
Cameron knows how to kill someone in an interesting way, Yeah,
because I didn't because Avatar. I think this is not
controversial at all, but like it's just like not as
memorable a movie as Titanic is, But there are a
number of kills at the peak of Avatar's action that
are equally like oh my god, what Like people are

(01:32:30):
being ripped in a half and you're just like, holy shit, Like, yeah,
when when the moment comes, he is not afraid to
really let people die, I mean, the guilty and the innocent,
because it's not like I mean, at least an Avatar,
it's a little more cathartic because it's like the colonizers,
so they're asking for it, they're asking to be torn

(01:32:52):
in half. Propeller guy, I mean, tell me what he
did wrong? We don't know, we don't know, we don't
know who that is. Can you imagine how horrific? I mean,
I don't think this would be the stronger creative choice,
but like in a world where we had met like
there had been some plant in payoff with Propeller guy,
like we had met him before. Oh my god, I

(01:33:15):
would be devastated. Yeah, yeah, I know. I know. Fabrizio's
girlfriend she's nuked. Yeah, you know, she got on the
wrong side of the rails. Sorry, babe, it's so sad.
It's sad. M okay. Then the ship breaks in half
and the back half of the ship sinks and Rose

(01:33:37):
and Jack end up in the water among hundreds of
other people. They swim over to a door and they
both try to get on it. It flips over because
it's not about size, it's about BWENI as we've said,
so just Rose ends up on the door. Jack is
in the freezing water. They are waiting for the lifeboats

(01:33:59):
to come back and save the people in the water.
Rose is like, I'm really cold and I can't feel
my body and I feel like I might die. And
Jack is like, You're not going to die here. You're
going to live a full life. Promise me you'll do that,
and never let go of that promise, almost like that's
setting it up for a scene that's going to happen

(01:34:19):
shortly where she does that and then she dies and
I don't. But you know it's hard to say, I
do have one. Quickly, I want to add in that
I forgot I I just am toggling between my commentary notes.
Something I thought was interesting about when the ship is
going down, like all those poop deck shots. Yeah, when
the ship is like submerging for the final time. Again,

(01:34:41):
just like there's so many like early I don't know,
like again, he's a batman, but but but boy did
he get results. You know, like there are all of
these like CG things that are now so normal in
movies that like James Cameron was like innovative on the
set of Titanic where instead of because like CG was

(01:35:04):
still very much whatever in process, Like there were all
of these shots when the boat was straight up and
sinking the last section of it that they would call
toilet paper shots because they would have the human extras
and like you know, Jack and Rosen and the chef
and the girlfriend and all this stuff for actors who

(01:35:27):
would have to fall and get hurt in CG that
you couldn't do in a way that was safe for
a stunt actor. They would have an actor sometimes actually
Kate winslet drop a roll of toilet paper from their mark,
so that the post production editor could go back and
cg in the green screen shot of someone falling and

(01:35:52):
like hitting something or whatever it was. And so there
were all these things called toilet paper shots, and you
could see some of them on line of just like
famous actors dropping a roll of toilet paper. It's kind
of fun. That's fun. I like it. Okay. So Jack
is like, never let go of that promise, and she says,

(01:36:14):
I'll never let go. Jack. Some time passes, a lifeboat
finally shows up with sexy crew member number twelve or whatever,
played by Ione Griffith as fifth Officer Harold Lowe. Yes,
he's the person I have a story about. So like, oh,
Kathy Bates in the commentary, because he goes on to

(01:36:38):
have a bit of a career, which even James Cameron
says in his commentary, he's like, this guy's he's he's
a fantastic before. I mean, I think that that's about it,
but you know he's done a thing or two, right,
And Kathy Bates said, like in the day, like where
they're in the fucking tank in Burbank, but that day

(01:36:58):
specifically where it's a bunch of extras literally lying motionless,
pretending to be dead, and that was like a really
emotional day, and that she was so moved by his
performance that she was like sobbing on set in a
way that was like she wasn't supposed to be and
it isn't in the movie, but like she just had
a really emotionally difficult time and she said that like

(01:37:21):
she she just she was like, I gotta hand it
to him. I cried myself to sleep that night when
he's like doing thee can never be my Hammie, And
you're just like, oh, they freaking can't except for rows
of course, and she's not real and those pop and
the two poperanians fucking dog paddling for their Oh my god,

(01:37:45):
I feel like if honestly I mean and I say
that because he's in my lap right now. But like
if we was on the Titanic, I would die and
he would live. You would put him on the door
and you would sacrifice yourself. No, I would get on
the door and leave him for dead and I would
still die and he would still live. He's just very strong.
I would be like, listen, catch survivor. I'd expected ze wise,

(01:38:09):
you gotta go and he'd be like, I understand, but
then I would I would just not be strong enough.
I would die and he would be like, all right,
let me hop up on this. Also, if it was
me and Flee on the door, I feel like the
boy and c would you know, Flee weighs nine pounds,
he'd be fine. That's true. That's so true. Yeah, um, okay,
so you and Grifolts, you and McGregor all over again.

(01:38:35):
I don't I mean, I bullshitted my way through it,
and you did not call me out, which I thought
was really kind of you. I said my aunt will
be something kind of close to that. I feel like
people have tried to tell us what it is before
it because it's a Welsh name spelled yes I O
A N. That's his first name, g r u f

(01:38:57):
f u d D. I simply don't know how it's
pronounced anyway. He's just a lot of vowels. It's hard
to know. Yeah. But he shows up on a lifeboat
and Rose is like, Jack, there's a boat, but Jack
is dead. Oops, and she calls out. She says that

(01:39:17):
she goes oops, and then she's like, I'll never like, oh,
my promise, And then she tries to call out and
get mister Lifeboat's attention. Then she swims over and blows
on a whistle and she is saved. Cut back to
the kell Dish where Old Rose and Broc love it
and all those people. Brock is having a feeling for

(01:39:37):
the first time in his life. He's having a hard
time yeah, and Rose says, I never spoke about Jack
before this, because a woman's heart is a deep ocean
of secrets, and Brok is like, damn, I never really
appreciated Titanic before. I never let it in, but now
I get it. Then we see Rose on the deck
of the Kellydish. She has the heart of the ocean

(01:40:00):
in her hand. We have talked through previously the alternate
ending to this movie, which sucks. We will not rehash
it here. There's a long garbagee Susie Amos, Bill Paxton like,
what what hey, Old Rose, please restate the moral of
the movie. Version that absolutely sucks. But this version, I

(01:40:24):
just feel like this just happens to be the one
movie where every right choice was made because the ending
to this movie is perfect. I do hate that she
throws the necklace in the water, but I mean, ideally
would she, you know, like sell it and then redistribute
the funds. Yes, symbolically for a person who never existed

(01:40:47):
with a mcguffin, it doesn't bother me and it makes
me cry. Yeah, because she was like, ultimately this one,
because it was like whatever, ultimately this was meaningless. It
was the love that mattered. And now having done this,
I can die or I can fall asleep and have
a dream about it. Okay. So Rose has the heart

(01:41:08):
of the ocean. Boring because of that scene earlier where
Cal is like, I put the diamond in the coat,
and I put the coat on her. Put the coat
on her. So Rose, and then let's not forget that
the depression hit him pretty hard and he put a
pistol in his mouth this year or so she read, yeah,
or so she read. We don't know, we don't know. Yeah,
he could be like a Pomeranian. He could still be.

(01:41:31):
So Rose has the heart of the ocean, and she's
had it this whole time, and she throws it in
the water and she goes, ah, God, I'm annoyed. Then no,
she's like con Then we see Rose in bed with
all of her pictures of the full life that she lived,

(01:41:51):
because she never let go of her promise to Jack.
All of these photos were photoshopped except for Kate Winslet
on the horse because Kate and which James Cameron pointed
out because he's like and Kate is afraid of horses. Oh,
I know, my friend. And then what happens? Okay. So
some people will interpret this as Rose dying and going

(01:42:13):
to heaven. Other really cool and really smart people will
interpret this as Rose falling asleep and having a dream.
But what we saw orch just people who haven't really
grappled with their mortality. I have something to I have
something to share her because James Cameron has a bonanza
with this thing. He makes it. He has a little
bit of fun, okay with this, so he says, quote

(01:42:37):
the big ambiguity here is is she alive and dreaming
or is she dead and on her way to Titanic heaven? Here?
And of course I'll never tell. I mean, I know
what was intended at the time, but that doesn't mean
I have to go blurting it out. I know you

(01:42:58):
bought this expensive special edition DVD, which I did, and
you were hoping for the answer. But the answer is
that has to be something that you supply personally and
as an individual. Wow, isn't that awesome? And so it
says something about people based on their interpretation of what happens.

(01:43:21):
It says that everyone. It says that he, I think
what in my opinion, like genuinely in my opinion. It
says that whatever creative choice he made didn't read as
strongly as he thought it would. And then he's like,
um so that's kind of art right, like, which is
what I would do in the same situation where I'm like, oh, yeah,
I made an unclear choice. Um that was on purpose,

(01:43:45):
and I think it's kind of iconic that And I
hope he never tells us. And I hope that we
both think that we're right until we either fall asleep
or die, which means I'm right, we will die one day.
We will not just keep falling asleep. But but I
liked I was. I was free entically transcribing that because
I was so excited to be like he said something
and it was not it was. I love that he

(01:44:07):
refuses to be clearer. It's it's great. Um So the
dream or heaven, based on your interpretation is And James
Cameron says this scene I cry at my own movie,
which is so which is I was like, I cry
at your own movie. So good for you, Good for you.

(01:44:28):
So we see young Rose. She's like entering the big
like grand staircase area of Titanic. Jack is waiting for
her at the top of the staircase just like you said,
they're surrounded by everyone who was on the ship. Rose
walks up the staircase and she and Jack kiss the end. Yay,
I love Caitlin, great job, I loved. My last fun

(01:44:52):
fact to share is that James Cameron's well, actually, no,
I have two more fun I'm okay, okay. My last
James Cameron fun fact is that they shot that last
The first of all, everyone who shot the staircase dream
slash death sequence did not think it would be included
in the final cut. It was something that Kate Winslet

(01:45:13):
and Leonardo DiCaprio thought was far too corny to make
the final cut. But then it did. But they also
shot it with them applauding and without them applauding, and
we're back and forth pretty close. But they chose applauding,
and I think that was the right choice. The final
thing is the last, the true last sequence in this
movie is the celine dion my heart will go on sequence.

(01:45:36):
I did not know the story attached to this, and
I love it, so tell me. I'm going to share
it and then we can explode, we can sink into
the depths of the Atlantic Ocean. I'm ready. So I
guess that there was like a shared opinion of James
Cameron and James Horner that they did not like when

(01:45:57):
movies ended with a song. They both thought it was
goofy and corny and they didn't like it. But when
James Horner was thinking about ways to end the movie,
he started thinking about a song and so he like
privately started working on something he privately not telling James Cameron,
hired a lyricist put together this song. He went to Vegas,

(01:46:22):
he saw Selene and he was like, I'm gonna hit
her up. I have enough, like and they secretly recorded
this song unbeknownst to James Cameron in New York, and
James Horner was like, hey, like it's pretty like unlikely
that this will be included in the movie, but like
here's your money, and like thanks for doing this. Like

(01:46:45):
then after it was recorded, James Horner, who sounded like
a very like quiet man who like chose his moments
kind of person. So once he has the Song of
the Century like V recording, he sits on it for
six weeks, waiting for James Cameron to be in the

(01:47:06):
right mood to be receptive to the idea of a
song ending the movie. Yeah, And then six weeks later
James Horner's like, so I tried something out and like,
just let me know what you think. He plays a
song and then James Cameron's like, is this Selene Dion

(01:47:29):
And James Horner's like, yeah, Selene Deon. I just kind
of threw it together over the course of several months,
and James Cameron to his again, I feel like when
the idea is really good, he will acknowledge it. And
he was like, let me just think about this, and
then he brought the song to his I guess at
that time teenage daughter and was like, what do you

(01:47:51):
think And his teenage daughter was like, it's the Song
of the Century, you fool. And that's how the song
got it into the movie. Wow, isn't that wild? Get
like there were so many everything perfect happened with Titanic.
It's the best movie ever, moviemaking is magical and horrible
and yes, two things can be true. That's our seventh

(01:48:18):
Titanic episode. Everyone, you came to this place. You came
to this place for multiple Titanic episodes, most of them
are on the Matreon. So if you want to hear more, yes,
screwed on over to the Matreon. But uh yeah, that'll
that'll do it for this year. But you better believe

(01:48:39):
your ass. Oh my god, we are twenty four. Oh,
you better believe your ass. And and we yeah, I
mean next year, I mean next year, at very least
we will talk about a movie we watched the full
year ago, Titanic sixty six six. Yeah, and that's a
damn promise. Um, we love you so much, Thank you
so much for listening. You can find us over on,

(01:49:02):
most importantly our patreon akamatreon that's patreon dot com slash
Bechtel Cast five dollars a month, we'll get you access
to all but one of the other Titanic episodes we've recorded.
And if that is a deterrent and not a reason
to sign up, there's also well over one hundred episodes
on other movies we've covered. There you can check us

(01:49:22):
out on Instagram or Twitter at Bechtel Cast, or in
t public dot com slash the Bechtel Cast for all
of the merch we currently have. But also I think
there's a chance that you'll see reverse image white star
line stuff there. Love it very soon, I hope, so
rock love it. Yeah, So thanks for listening. And I'll

(01:49:47):
never let go, will you, Jamie. I will never let
go okay ever ever Bye bye

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