February 14, 2017 • 65 mins
It's Caitlin and Jamie's final voyage into insanity on Titanic, a three hour movie they can recite by memory. Aparna Nancherla is our first-class guest and we read from James Cameron's perverted script, hear clips of C&J watching Titanic in real time and declare what a badass Rose Dewitt-Bukater is. Love is dead and so is Jack!
(This episode contains spoilers)
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
On thee Cast, the questions asked if movies have women
and um are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,
or do they have individualism, the patriarchy and best start
changing it with the Betel Cast. Hello, and welcome to
the Bechtel Cast. Hi. I'm Caitlin Arante. I'm Jamie Loftus,
(00:22):
and I don't know what Okay, Well, I've been starting
it a couple of times now, but I always I
forgot how to do it. I forgot. It's okay. I'm
very distraught right now. This is the episode we've been
waiting for. I know, I feel really I feel a
lot of pressure. It's a Valentine's Day episode. Do you
have Valentine? Maybe that's not not a good question. If
(00:44):
I've plans, Yeah, oh absolutely not. I'm doing a show
on Valentine's Day. Well that's fine. Yeah, it's our bar.
I'm oh, I know, I know the one you're blam
blam blam. Yeah cool. I'm watching The Jinks with my
friend and then we're going to the Wedurst Case the
next morning. Oh, that's right. So this is the Becktel Cast.
(01:06):
We talked about uh women and their representation in movies.
Usually it's bad. Sometimes it's not. Uh, today we did
something we never did before. This is a special. We
hung out offside we Yeah, we've never done that before.
I actually do them. We we watched this movie together.
This is the first time in Bectel cast history that
(01:27):
we saw the movie together. Uh. The pizza only I
ate the pizza. No one wanted the pizza. Pizza. We
did drink a lot of white wine. We did, but
there was a third person, our friend Courtney was there
as well. She barely drank and absolutely did not eat
any pizza. And I anyways, I for sure ate six
pieces of pizzay, six pieces of chicken um, and a
(01:50):
large amount of wine. Not that I was shaming you
at all. I really admire that. I think we went
pound for pound. Did we not wine? Yeah? Yeah, okay,
So that's fine. And the reason we watched this movie
together is it's a movie that we both have seen, Jamie.
It's a movie. It's a movie I watched alone a lot,
but it's better not alone. Yeah, it's a movie we
(02:13):
seen and love. It's Titanic. Titanic. We have a very
special guest that we're going to introduce in a second.
But we Uh, we watched the movie together, and we
recorded different segments during the screening that we will insert
into the episode, like maybe right now. For the first one,
we did a pre movie one, so enjoy. Hey everyone,
(02:38):
it's Caitlin and Jamie and we're in a different location
than usual. We're in my house. Uh, we are about
to watch Titanic together. And we just buried a body.
We just buried a body. That's when we go offsite.
Aristotle was supposed to come, but then he said no,
and then we killed him. And that's whose body the body.
So now that we're all caught up, we're about to
(02:58):
watch Titanic. I haven't watched it and I think two years,
which is unusual. I usually do plan a few There's
a few movies I watched annually that are very long.
It's Titanic and Gone with the Wind. I watched this
movie two to three times a year, and I saw
it pretty recently. How do you handle that? It's so like,
I don't know if I have a lot of a
(03:19):
lot going on in my life and I have a
lot of time what you mean, like emotionally, Yeah, like
I have the time I rewatched season two of Grayce
and Frankie today rewatched it. Wow, I've got the time.
That's not the issue the emotional capacity. I think that
I just operated at such a low level of emotional intelligence.
(03:40):
I need movies like this to like to activate the
emotion parts of my brain. You sound like a robot anyways,
love Titanic. Yeah, well, I can't wait to watch this
with you. We're going to check back in I think
around the midpoint of the movie. Yeah, I know exactly.
Were the VHS number one stop? Same, We'll check in there, great,
(04:04):
all righty, and then uh we we stopped in the middle, which,
for all you Titanic heads out there, is where the
first VHS ends. Captain E. J. Smith turns basically to
camera and says, I think you may get your headlines
after all, mrsme. Then we talked there, and then uh
(04:24):
one big long segment at the end. Yes, yes, so
we will check in periodically and go to those segments.
But for now, let's introduce our wonderful guests. Yeah, she's
a very funny comedian and wonderful person a partner Nan Charla.
Hello here, so you picked this movie, and you picked
(04:46):
it because do you also like it? Do you love it.
I have a confession. I didn't watch it recently, but
I have watched it, I would say upwards of maybe
four times in my life. Okay, I mean that's like
I've seen it, but it's not that high. But but
I do remember when it first came out, I was
(05:08):
like obsessed with it for a while. Yeah, I felt
like it swept the nation. It certainly did. The people
were kind of divided, if I remember, because some people
thought that, like the dialogue was really bad. I remember
that was a complaint. It's pretty bad. There are some
scenes where the dialogue is especially bad and the acting
is especially does not crush it. And this she does
(05:33):
not that bad of a job once the ship starts sinking,
but up until then, she's pretty bad at acting, which
I think. She openly admits her American accent is a
little weird and like the I used to try when
I was younger to imitate the way she would speak,
because it was the We talked about this when we
watched it, Like the cadence of it is so weird
(05:54):
that it sounded very elegant and so yeah, yeah, yeah,
I she's like poor little rich girl. No, no, no, no,
like a weird Shakespearean quality to it. Yeah, I wonder
if she was trying to go for like upper class Yeah,
like almost like a Brands Atlantic. But I don't know.
(06:16):
We don't even need to do a recap, I don't
think honestly, I feel like we lose more and more
structure each time. Yes, Oh, do you guys usually recap
the movie? Because I do, and I always do a
very bad job. And it takes about take a watch
several hours. I was about the length of the movie itself.
I was looking for speed versions of it on YouTube,
(06:38):
and there's some really strange homages to the movie out there.
There was like one that was it was like a
condensed version the movie with just like weird close ups
on the people's faces and then just like techno music.
Oh so people are just like, I love this movie,
I'm gonna and the like sometime. Yeah, well, like they
(07:02):
summarized it but with technolo. Yeah, they just like took
key moments and did it in chronological order and put
it to techno. Yeah, we'll watch one of those to
it in the description do it. When it came out,
I saw it not to brag in a drive in
movie theater. With my mom and sister. That's a great
(07:24):
way to see this movie. I watched it at first
in secret. I wasn't allowed to see it when it
came out, so I think it was five when it
came out. Uh. But I stole my mom's vhs uh
copies of it at one point and brought it to
my cousin's house, where we proceeded to watch it. Got
(07:44):
busted watching the nude scene, of course, but then my aunt,
she's a cool aunt, and she was like, keep watching kids. Yeah.
And then once my mom found out I had already
seen it, she was just like, all right, you can.
I guess they just keep watching it. Family members. You
have a million cool careless you know. Was it scary
(08:06):
five year old? Well, I didn't see it, And as
I didn't see it to this, I think ten, And
at that point it was just like hot cool thing,
like I don't know, yeah, not that things are hot
when you're ten, but maybe they are. I don't remember.
But and then uh, in junior high, like I I
loved this movie for so much for so long that
(08:26):
in junior high to like retain my like punk rock credibility.
In in junior high, I tried to switch gears and
be like, oh, I don't love the movie. I love
learning about details about shipwrecks, and so I have a
ton of knowledge about shipwrecks. Because I was just like
(08:46):
really nervous that people were gonna just think I loved Titanic,
which is I did, Yeah, but I also know about
a ton of military never happened. I was just like,
I don't give a funk what people think about me.
I'm just gonna watch this movie every day for an
entire summer, sometimes twice in a row. True story, I've
probably seen this movie fifty times. Twice is the whole day?
(09:12):
Oh yeah, it's like six and a half hour. My
sister and I would start it in the morning, watch
the whole thing. I have to switch out the VHS
tapes and then rewind and start from the beginning immediately after.
It was like I was obsessed with this. Well, I mean,
if you've got a sister too, that's like I land
a brother and he he was not as on board
(09:34):
to watch it with me. That's the other thing about
this movie is that I think I don't want to
make any sweeping generalizations here, but I think most a
lot of women have at least seen it, and many
enjoy it more so than a lot of guys who
have never seen it. Most men I've talked to I
think they're like, yeah, I never saw that movie. I'm like,
(09:55):
but it's so good. Yeah, yeah, I don't. I don't.
I don't care about it. The I liked this movie
for the wrong reasons, which is that I think it
has amazing practical effects and great action, so I the
movie doesn't really kick it into gear for me until
(10:15):
like Act two, which is or the end of act
two or who knows. I mean, the inciting incident happens
in this movie an hour and a half into it.
How many how many college degrees you have? I have
three now because I have two of mine and one
of you. I took yours. That's fine. I don't need it.
I like this movie for all the wrong reasons that
(10:36):
I think everyone likes it for the romance. The romance
freaking beautiful, I like. I mean, the more I see it,
the more I appreciate the romance, especially on this reason. Rewatch,
I was like, all right, I gotta pay extra attention
to Rose her female character. Let's then like, I was like,
(10:56):
holy sh it. She's like, she's great, and we'll go
and to more detail about that. Yeah, I was trying
to think of all the female characters. I mean, she's
obviously the main one that there's her mom, there's her mom,
and there's Cathy Bates Molly Brown, but also pretty much
I feel like Catthy Bates that part couldn't have been
(11:17):
cast better. Like, yeah, she's great, she's great. I love
the scene where she takes Leonardo DiCaprio and it's like,
try all my son's clothes and he's like it fits perfect,
like end of scene. Yeah, it's great. I know I
wanted her. She like ends up being a mentor for Jack,
but I wanted her to be a mentor for Rose
more because she's like, I'm a strong woman. You're a
(11:41):
strong woman. I'm a little older than you. Let me
show you how to be a bad bitch, right, But
she sort of teaches Jack and stuff to not be pore.
Oh yeah she can. Yeah, it's a little more. Well,
that's an interesting thought that said Jack and Rose are
both fictional. All Brown is real. I guess we'll just
(12:01):
dive right in. I really like Rose now, like I
was like, she just she just yells out Jack a
lot towards the end. And that's my impression of her
first name assaulted in this movie. Uh yeah, yeah, she's great,
she's great. Yeah, it's great. A little hasty to want
to kill herself. It seems abrupt. I wonder if that's
(12:25):
the and that that comes really early though, doesn't it? Really? Wait,
I should have made a pun when I was like,
let's just jump in it should have been really it
should have been a better pun about jumping into the
water something. I thought you were making a pun when
you said that. Guys not not on board with it?
(12:46):
WHOA so many nautical references? Yeah, let's see how many
we can do. I used to make My high school
boyfriend watched this movie with me all the time, and
he was like training to be a naval syer and
it would would just be three hours of like that's
not how bull works. And I was like it was
so nice, But oh yeah, you said that she's a
(13:11):
she's a bit quick to just throw herself off the
back of a boat, which either she's got some mental
health issues that she's not addressing or like, again, no
one knew who Freud was even back then, because Mrs
May is like, who's Freud a passenger? Um, So you know,
psychology didn't really exist that much back then, so maybe
(13:33):
she was morbidly depressed. It we don't have a lot
of context with she just I think the way it's
introduced is weirder because like the narration, uh just says
like inside I was screaming, and then cut she's about
to kill her running, So it's like, well, this could
have been a huge lead that we just don't know. Yeah,
either way, what happens next is a trope that happens
(13:56):
in a lot of movies where a guy has to
save a woman, which like normally would annoy me, but
then I got to thinking about it, I guess I
was like, oh, I guess it's a guy saving a girl.
But then I was thinking about her situation, and I
was like, I get I don't know, I could understand
(14:18):
in her position and class, she wouldn't maybe have that
many options right right, Like there wasn't because and then
you find out later like she it's basically an arranged
marriage and she has to do it so that her
and her mom can continue to like maintain their lifestyle,
and it seems like she's kind of been sold off
(14:38):
to Billy Zane, Blee Zane, Billy Zane. We'll get to
Billy Zane because I don't know. I have a whole
new perspective on Billy Zane now, which is that I
could fix him. Wow, fix him? I don't know. I
think he's too far beyond help. He's a he's a
(15:00):
he's a sociopath. No way, baby, I can fix I mean,
I I am confident in you and in your abilities, Jamie.
But I said I could fix the Gaston, and I
think that that's true. I also think I can fix
um my love. I can't make any sense of my notes.
I think what I was trying to say is that like, yeah,
he has to. He saves her, but it sort of
(15:24):
is the catalyst for her character arc. Oh there's a
scene where she's like, it's not up to you to
save me, Jack. This is later on in the story,
and he's like, you're right, only you can do that,
And I was like, yeah, I like that he acknowledges
her autonomy and stuff like that. Um, And there's a
great speech he gives to her and that weird Jim,
(15:47):
that's the scene. Maybe it's the gym equipment. There's like
a scene where she like blows him off and then
he's like, don't go. You know you're the best. And
they're in this insane in looking Jim with all these
like nine early oh steampunk reference of the episode. It
(16:07):
looks like a steampunk jymnasy. Yeah, ye, confusing contraptions. We
can't go an episode without mentioning something about steam punk.
So far, so far, got to keep the street going, Yeah, exactly.
He does give us like he's like, you're the most
amazingly incredible, brave girl woman I've ever known. And he's like,
(16:31):
he doesn't say anything about her looks, he's just like
commenting entirely on her like strength of character, and then
he like excellent, calls her a girl. He's like, no,
you're even though you're seventeen, you're a woman. And I
was like, yeah, good, good job. Got she's supposed to
be seventeen, I think not yet, oh seventeen. So there's
(16:53):
that like kind of empowering moment. There's the one where, oh,
early on in the movie, there's a scene were they're
at dinner and Rose like blows smoke in her mom's face.
She's like I don't care that you don't like me smoking,
and then Billy's interested and yeah, and then um Molly's like,
are you gonna cut her meat for her too? So
(17:15):
you have these like a few moments early on where
you like see women being like pretty badass, and and
then there's this scene where she's like trying to commit
suicide and Jack's like, oh, you know ice fishing. He's
like just trying to man splain ice fishing to her,
and she's like, I know what ice fishing is. And
I loved that. I just love I'm just gonna do
(17:36):
that anytime someone man splaining something to me, even if
I don't know. I know what ice fishing is. Okay,
I've never been ice fishing. I have no idea how
it works. That's when you poke a hole in ice
and then you put your line. Yeah, I know what
ice fishing is. It was in an episode of Fraser once.
Oh yeah. Shortly after that, there's a line where that
(17:59):
I don't even know who this character is, but he's
like it's like I always say, women in machinery do
not mix. Wait when was that, Oh, I think it's
whenever she rose as a very good Caitlin impression because
she's like, I was leaning far over to see the uh,
the the the rudders. That's me talking because I can't
(18:22):
say a single sentence without filling it with like ten
vocal fillers. Um so, but yeah, and then she's like, oh,
they're like, oh women in machinery, she wanted to see
the rudders. That's dumb. Yeah, so I guess the men.
A lot of the men are in in gender normative
roles except for Jack. Yeah, I'd say so, because Jack
(18:44):
just spends most of the movie like trying to empower Rose. Yeah,
I mean, and then there's also kind of just like
a lot of men just doing jobs, like most of
the ship crew. They don't cause conflict other than not
preventing the ship from right. But there's a lot of
I mean, like Cal for sure is terrible Cal Cal
(19:06):
or Billy's ans weird. Butler, Yeah, he's a valid valet.
He's around, he wants to help, presumably for money, we
don't know, but he falls, you know, he's he's not
a good guy. Mr Lovejoy, Mr. It's a great name.
Threw name, um Yeah, because he follows Jack and Rose
(19:29):
around quite a bit. And then Mr is may like
the owner of the White Star line. He's not a
great guy either. No, he just wants fast. He just
wants to make the headlines and monetize. We must make
headlines now, I went to marvel her speed. Yeah, so
he's a piece of ship. Mr Andrews though, to Carber,
(19:53):
so handsome in this movie. I mean, I can't necessarily
agree with you, but you're like, you have this one.
You're crazy. He's the most handsome man in the whole movie.
You know what. Billy Zane is totally my type. I
just love a guy with sicker eyelashes than I have.
That's what is wearing a crazy amount of makeup in
(20:14):
the He's wearing so much eyeliner. Yeah, And it was like,
is that is that something people did or is that
just something Billy Zane does because no one else in
the movie does it exactly for him and uh and
all the female characters at Mac a lot of like
almost cat eyes. He looks great. I know I want
to do I want to I want someone to do
(20:36):
a makeup tutorial on YouTube, but like to replicate Billy Zane.
Billy's ane nice. And oh I also like there's a
part where she like does all the math in her
head and figures out that there aren't enough lifeboats. She's like,
I was doing the sum in my head, and it's like, yeah,
you cool girl, you do that math. One of my
(20:58):
favorite lines is after Jackets invited to dinner and they're
all sitting at dinner and it's like winding down Roses
Like now they go retreat into a cloud of smoke
and congratulate each other on being masters of the universe.
And I was like, yeah, we can still do that.
This is the thing that men do, namely our current
(21:20):
presidential administration. Whoa. And then I feel like I'm talking
a lot. I'm talking. I'm just I feel bad because
I didn't watch it recently, so I don't remember that
on that level in detail. I know, we're like really
getting into the nitty gritty of this movie. It's fresh
and we've both seen it so many times. Mean, did
(21:42):
you ever see Ghosts of the Abyss? No? Oh, I
think that's what it's called. It's like a two thousand
two documentary that James Cameron made where he went back
to the titan because he just loves going to the Titanic.
I think I remember that coming out. I didn't see
it though, but yeah, I think he's spent so much
time re searching it before he even did the movie.
It was so expensive, like it was crazy expensive, and
(22:04):
I feel like he maybe only made the movie so
you have an excuse to go down. But like, what
what a gift to the world? Was good? Did you
you saw that? It was good? I mean it was.
It was just like a lot of technical like they
were basically trying to figure out like can we raise
it and can it be preserved? And the answer is no,
(22:27):
it just fall apart, So you just got to leave
it there and it's sort of a slowly decomposing What
about the submarine guys? Oh yeah, oh Bill Paxton, Bill
Bill packed. I don't know how I feel about that,
like book ending the movie, because we don't even we
don't even arrive in this in the narrative in nineteen
(22:47):
twelve until twenty minutes into the movie. Yeah, I clocked
it and maybe does Yeah, like it goes a little
I feel like that happens because James Cameron wants to
show everyone all his cool footage from Titanic, Like think
the only reason that why that exists. I don't know,
like how much of a punch does it peg that
there isn't like well it makes it. It's it seems
(23:10):
like it's setting it up to be this huge important
component of this story later because they're searching for the diamond,
but the diamond like it just doesn't really it doesn't
have much to do with the rest of the story.
So that's really the only thing it ends up being. Yeah, exactly.
It ends up being like a bit of a plot
device whenever love Joy frames Jack for stealing it and
(23:33):
then they lock them up, and then it creates like
this extra sequence of tension whenever Jack or roses like,
I don't know he was my boyfriend, but then he
stole that necklace, so oh man, and then Jack and
then that's horship, don't you believe them? You know? I
didn't you know. I mean, it's like she met you
(23:53):
two days ago, so she doesn't really know you. Then
comes one of the worst lines of dialogue and the
higher movie, which is one he's like, how do you
find out I didn't do it? And she's like, I
didn't I just realized I already knew, but she said,
like new and it's that ends up being like, I
(24:13):
guess a part of the story. But then what drives
me crazy is the end when she throws it overboard.
People got so upset about that. I got upset mostly
because she could have taken that piece of jewelry and
sold it to whoever wanted to buy it, and then
(24:34):
she could have founded Planned Parenthood or donate to it
or like just use those millions and millions of dollars.
It doesn't to put some women through college or something,
but I don't think it would have. I feel like
they would have like put it in a museum or something.
I don't think it would have been sold or anything.
(24:56):
It didn't. I don't know. That didn't bother me too
much because it's like the last thing she before she dies,
I think, and like no one's ever going to know,
and it was hers. I just that's the other thing.
So she dies like she's like she would seem to be.
She regaled this whole story. She seemed fine, and then
what she just dies all of a sudden because it
was the because it was the last thing she had
(25:19):
to do. Maybe Iver told the story before. Maybe this
is the part where we should check in the last part,
and I'll fired up. Yeah, so hey, let's check in.
We're gonna do this out of order, but we're gonna
the last part because this is when I was like,
(25:40):
I don't like that. She dies and you're like so much.
Hey listen now, I'm sorry that's laughing and that's oh
god each other and then and everyone's there. Is that
(26:12):
supposed to be like a dreamer? Is it supposed to
be heaven? I was always like, oh, she just falls
asleep and it's a dream heaven. She dies and then
she goes to heaven where everyone's waiting for her to
kiss someone. That's what it's like for her. Everyone's just
(26:37):
hanging out. Jack is in his like poor people clothes
and he's looking at the clock. It's so sad, but
it's so happy. It's okay. Um, I wish I wasn't
(26:58):
such a weird robot that I was more. No, I'm
overdoing it. We've also had probably five glasses of wine each.
I can't believe it. It's nevertheless said, oh I think back, Sorr.
I think I just stopped for like ten minutes. I'm
(27:20):
sorry that. I was like, oh, we should record this
now we're still crying. So the movie has ended. Yes,
there's justinished we've been through a journey together, exhaustive. I
love that movie so much. We were quoting every line
(27:42):
of dialogue. We knew every line in the movie. It
wasn't even a bit. It was just and our friend Courtney,
who was probably very annoyed with us because she was like, guys,
can you stop, I'm trying to pay attach into that movie?
And we're just like, that's gonna be want that's on this.
If you don't shut that hold on, you'll face r
(28:05):
I P. Officer Murdoch. Honestly, yeah, that be harder than
it ever has. My crush for him apparently has grown
more intense over time. My crush is still on Captain Fantastic. Yeah,
we've got to talk about that, the hot guy at
the end who's like, is there anyone out there? Can
(28:25):
anyone anyway? I looked him up and I was like,
who's this very attractive man in this movie at all?
He did well? And then I was like, holy sh it,
it's Captain Fantastic from the Fantastic Four? Is that like
the idea? That's who was Jessica elbow one O the
first Yeah? Yeah, okay, well that's better. Oh I thought
(28:48):
none of them were good. I didn't see any of them.
But what do you haven't seen a movie? That movie
was so sad, Yes, Courtney, I did enjoy watching it
with you guys cast as all the characters. We did
good though, a pretty good job. We got all the
ex ends and all the cadence. Yeah. I bought my
(29:10):
whole punch and I didn't even use it. Oh wait,
what were we going to use it for? I was
gonna craft I have all the time like this. I
wanted to believe the best in myself. I didn't do it.
We'll never let go, Jamie. You're gonna live. You're gonna
make lots of babies and watch him grow and then
(29:33):
I'm gonna die. That part and all lady, I resent
that part because he's basically saying that, like, the only
worth you have is a woman is to be a mother. Yeah,
but he still couldn't been a little bit more femininely,
you're gonna go get a STEM degree and you're gonna
manage a company, and you're gonna be valued by everyone
(29:55):
around you, and then you're gonna die. I wish he
would have said that, Yes he was died. I feel
like I'm inadequate emotionally because I don't know how to
compute or express or press that's emotion for power, I'm
like sweating through my clothes. Well, I also it comes
(30:17):
at a price, which is that I don't know how
to be in relationship. I think between the two of
us we feel enough for two people. Though it's just like,
it's just like, how between the two of us we
have three degrees. Between the two of us, we have
the emotions of two people, the emotions of two people,
and the emotions of zero people. I saw. I would
(30:44):
like to dedicate this episode to all the victims of
the Titanic, all fifteen hundred of them, particularly those in
the lower classes. And hey to the women, women and
children and children who didn't make it. We're like sucking
your allies, and we're not sucking in a march star.
We're marching march on the White House and be like,
what about Titanic? All right, Hey, everyone, thanks for listening.
(31:12):
He's out. My heart will go on. Oh that's true,
it will, it will. Oh. It was about to sing it,
and then I didn't remember, and I can't sing. Okay, bye,
and we're back. I'm not looking for it to listening
(31:35):
to that, I don't think I will. Uh No, you
were great. I was really mean. I was like kind
of making fun of you for crying, and I was like,
I'm over here laughing and Jamie's crying. I didn't like
the ending. That is such a beautiful part of the
because you go back at the end and you're like,
there was like, well, these b characters and they're all
(31:57):
there and they're so happy, and Jack is just staring
at a clock. Who knows how long he's been there,
and then he turned around and then they pan up
and the captain's there. It's so nice. It's so nice.
I always feel bad when a character in a movie
has like the love of their life and then they
die and then someone else comes along and it's like,
(32:18):
I guess that person doesn't matter that much. Yeah, Yeah,
it's like because I think in the story she was
married to the same guys and they have all these
kids and grandkids, and then it's like, what about that
guy's story? But yeah, that's not the last thing she
wanted to think about. My granddaughter who's right here with me, well,
her grand her granddaughter also has a thing for Bill Paxton.
(32:43):
All right, they do sort of shoehorn that little well,
and in the alterna and the alternate ending they might kiss.
I don't know. Oh, it's so bad. It's on YouTube,
like she's about to throw the diamond overboard and they'll
Paxton runs up. She's like no, He's like, no, don't
do it, and then she like does this whole speech.
(33:06):
I don't remember. It's just horrendous. It's not good, But
I mean sure, I guess the reason that like she
was so affected but or like that she's going to
reunite with him in heaven or whatever, is that he
allowed her to escape this trapped life that she was in,
and he was like the catalyst that got her to
(33:29):
become this new woman, it's new independent woman. And so yeah,
he played a very significant role in her life. Each
other romance, Happy Valentine's Day, everyone, Love is Dead. Here's
something that bought that I hadn't really thought about the
first forty times I watched the movie because I was
(33:51):
moodier and probably liked my mom less than I do
now last time I saw it. I don't know how
well it sits with me. The Rose presumably never talks
to her mom, who survives ever again, like she I
presumably allows her mom to believe that she has died.
Her mom is not great, and her mom was sort of,
(34:13):
you know, selling her off to the highest bidder. But
you know, you can argue it was for survival purpose.
I don't know. I just it's weird to me that
I mean, and she changes her last name, but I
feel like where it's pure speculation that never that's true.
I hope they saw each other. I think there should
(34:34):
be a sequel like Rose and Ruth. Yeah, like they
share an apartment that netflix during World War Two. That
was like, yeah, at that point, is just mom's kind
of old. But yeah, I had never that had never
occurred to me before. We're obviously you know at the end,
(34:57):
you see Billy Zane looking around island and then she
hides from him, and I was like, okay, well I
get that you don't want to see him again. Yeah,
she definitely ghosted on him. Yeah, I hope she saw
her mom again. Yeah she's not real her mom. Yeah,
(35:19):
her mom was had some problems. But there's a great
scene let's talk about that where I'm jumping ahead a
little bit, but because guess what the movie does pass
the Bechdel test. It does because there's there's a it
happens on a few instances, but there's a scene pretty
early too. I think the first time it passes, if
I'm not mistaken, is when old Rose is talking to
(35:43):
her granddaughter and yeah, because they're talking about the Titanic
or whatever. Yeah. A little later on, there's the scene
where Rose's mom is talking to her like lame rich
friends and they're having tea, and she like, well, the
purpose of university is to find a suitable husband. Rose
(36:03):
has already done that. It's like, oh God, don't they
discuss the color lavender in that scene? For some reason,
I think they're talking about Oh. I think that's a
different scene. But it is with those horrible rich ladies.
I've never seen The Godfather, but I've seen this movie.
It's times I've never seen Forrest Gump. I could have
(36:26):
done so much with all that time. You've got all
the time in the world to watch a bunch of movies,
thank you. Anyway, there's a scene where Ruth is talking
to Rose and she's like doing up her girdle or
her petty course of course it. Yeah, I couldn't. I
think that's the sexiest way to describe that garment. Yeah, yeah,
(36:48):
I forget what a girdle is, but I think it
is it the same thing and the steam punk thing.
They're like roses like, oh, you like put this burden
on me of having to marry cal because all of
our money is gone, and and she's like it's not fair,
and Ruth is like, of course it's not fair where
women and I was like, it's not fair. Why do
(37:13):
we all have to marry Billy sane? You know, we're
just young girls. I want to talk about the nude scene.
In the sex scene pretty close together. They were pretty
much one right after well because it's like the nude
scene and then they get chased around Butler go and
(37:35):
then they had sex because they are Yeah, I think
it's interesting and like, this is something I cannot imagine
me or most people I have ever met doing. But
going from they like have their first kiss and then
like the next step is like and now you're going
to draw me nude? Like that was the next thing
(37:56):
that they do. That was second base. That is pretty
four especially for that time, I'm guessing, especially considering she's
like she was a very upper crust and she knew
she knew he drew nudes. I guess right, that's why
it had to be nude, because things that it didn't Oh,
(38:18):
I didn't. It was weird that she jumped to nude.
I like it. Oh, I love that part because it's
like drew non nudes. He showed her a lot of
type of stuff. I think she was just like trying
to get things go, like they'd hung out a little bit,
but they hadn't. Like she was just trying to make
the first move. And you're capable of being casual with people.
(38:39):
This is who ever met me. No. No, but you
can like do it. I mean, I've initiated every time
I've had sex. I was like, you have to draw.
That's great, that's yeah. It was just like, first, I'm
going to wear this kimono. I want you to draw
me wearing this, and it's a be necklace I bought
(39:00):
from Claire's in two thousands one. And then he draws
me and when I have in the backseat of a car. No.
The reason I like it so much is that, like
everything is on her terms. She's like, I was this stuffy,
little pressy girl. I don't want to be drawn like
a porcelain doll. Anymore. Here's some money, I expect what
I want, Draw me naked, and it's just like she's
(39:22):
coming into her own you know. She's she knows what
she wants and she's not afraid to go out and
get it. And she I'm sure was sexually repressed up
until then, because there's a few conversations earlier in the
movie where Cal is like, I thought you would come
to me last night, and she's like, I was tired.
And then there's another part where he's like, you're my wife.
(39:44):
You should honor me the way a wife is required
to honor. Cal's very horny. She will not put out,
and so I love that. And she's like, yeah, Cal,
you're not going to get into this bomb pussy. But Jack,
go over here, this homeless man who I met two
days ago, I will fuck you all night long. I okay.
(40:06):
Obviously Cal not a great guy. I do think that
maybe if they spent some more time together, they would
become like normal parents that sort of hate each other.
But it's like, well they got some sort of fun going.
That may be true if he wasn't a complete narcissist
and sociopath like that No, it's but uh the scene
(40:28):
where he gives her the necklace and basically it's like
he's has sex with me. It's so funny. He's very
he's you know, he's just like using for it, like
open your heart. He's like cross, but he's trying so hard.
Well that's I love that that he's like totally being
cuck holded by Yeah, I can bring you can bring
(40:52):
in that, or I was using cuckolded long before the
fucking all those conservatives commandeered that term, and I didn't
watch a documentary about birds where I learned all about
well done, well done. The point that I'm trying to
arrive at is that every like sexual experience that Rose
(41:16):
has is like just very much on her terms. She
initiates everything. She's just like she's feeling very sexually empowered,
and she's like, I'm going to go for it, and
Jack is like sure, and she's like put your hands
on me, Jack, and he's like okay, and then they're
like mid coitus and he's like sweating and trembling and
he's just like I can't handle this. Bom pussy. I
(41:40):
think you're really like writing fan fiction. We don't see them.
Have we see them initiative and no, well there's a
scene where like there it might be like post coitas.
You never see him like thrusting into her. But hey, mom,
you see wait, I have I have the scene pulled
(42:01):
up from the James Cameron script here. Oh yes, please
read so. And I don't know where this fits into
uh you know this is this is I think we
could argue a woman's movie. The woman is the driving
force in the movie. It is written by James Cameron,
who is sort of notoriously overly perverted in the way
(42:24):
that he writes. Uh. And I remember reading this when
I was like a teenager. I was like, I want
to read the script. I really, I want to know
everything about this dope movie. Uh. And the way he
writes a sex scene is very long and very gross.
Jack jumps into the driver's seat, enjoying the feel of
the leather and wood. Jack says, where to miss Rose
(42:47):
to the stars on on Jack as her hands come
out of the shadows and pull him over the seat
into the back. He lands next to her, and his
breath scenes loud and the quiet darkness. He looks at
her and she is smiling. It is the moment of truth, Jack,
are you nervous? Rose? Oh, contrere mon cher. He strokes
(43:10):
her face, cherishing her. Uh. She kisses his artist's fingers. Still, Rose,
put your hands on me, Jack. He kisses her and
she slides down in the seat under his Welcome Weight
cut to the hit an Iceberg. But the way you
sex it's it's nasty. The way that, well, any screener
(43:35):
writing class will tell you that you don't need all
of that discretion. First, it's so long, it's paragraphs of
just weird adjectives. Welcome weight is really the phrase that's
stuck with sounds like fan fiction. It does, Yeah, it
sounds like an e book. The way he wrote it,
(43:55):
it's it's kind of gross. And then going off of that,
I've I've read more than one James Cameron scripture. And
then he wrote a treatment of Spider Man, the Toby
McGuire one that's just as gross, like just as pervy,
where there's like scenes in it where he's like a
peeping tom, like looking at Mary Jane. Uh. There's a
(44:20):
scene where he, you know, it's like oh this the
webs are come and it's his sexual awakening and the
come makes him more powerful, and it's just he's God,
he's a sick freak, he's mass. I don't think it
translates that much onto the screen, though, because it really doesn't.
(44:45):
I wonder if there's someone behind the scenes who's just like,
don't do that. Try not to think about those words
when you do that. Well. I was thinking also about
like the Nude Team, where she like takes off for
robe when we see her like naked breasts, Like you
always have to question if there's a nudity a woman
(45:05):
nude in a movie, is it to satisfy the male
gaze or is it something else that's actually important for
the story. And I think in this case, like for reals,
I feel like it's an act of defiance. She's like
it's been all stuffed up in these corsets and like
I been all prim and proper my whole life and
(45:26):
not anymore. So I feel like it's like in symbolic
of her being like that's not who I am anymore.
I'm this new woman who's going to suck a stranger
right after he draws me naked. That makes sense, I'm
on word with that, I mean, And just the fact
that it gets everyone in the theater horned up. There's
it's like a fringe benefit. Totally good for them, Good
(45:47):
for them that they cracked that one. Yeah, I feel
like they needed like a climatic moment before the iceberg. Totally. Yeah,
that's true. That's like the best part of the first
VHS tape is and she gets naked and then and
then it's pretty much downhill from there. Um. When I
(46:07):
was watching the movie in for the first time in
the drive in movie theater, we were in my mom's
car and the like windows were getting steamed up in
the car. So I eleven year old Caitlin, like made
this hilarious joke where like slapped the window and like
brought my hand down, and my Mom's like, Caitlyn, that's
(46:29):
very adorable. I like that. Wait it is you and
your mom and your sister who was sitting in the
back seat. I think it was probably my mom, like
my sister and I think I think we're in the front.
Mom took one for the team. I think my mom
would do that. My mom was like, no, I came here, shotgun,
I'll stay shotgun. Yeah. No, she's a she was a
nice mom. Mom. Did your mom listen to the podcast.
(46:52):
Yeah she does. My mom still does not understand. She
doesn't she does not physically know how to play. I
remember the conversation, yeah yeah. And then I was talking
to my dad about the other day and he's I
think his exact words were like, how do you do that?
It's like, it's fine, don't worry about it. So anyway,
(47:13):
I love the I just love the whole sex and
naked scenes in this. I feel like it's it's very
symbolic of the sex and it. I just want more
and more baby well, I mean pretty much directly after
they well roses deflowered. I imagine that Jack perhaps though
he was definitely I think some of those French presses
(47:34):
the other nude girls right right, she wasn't the first
nude girl. But the other thing that always makes me
laugh about Jack is when he goes to that meal
with the rich people and then he says like, yeah,
last night I slept underneath the bridge and now I'm
on this boat with you guys. And if he was
like even a little less hot, that would be a
(47:56):
horrifying thing to come out of a dable like, because
he's clean and very sexy and very charming, everyone's like, oh,
he's like yesterday. But if he was just like a
regular person, that would give me a lot of pause. Anyways,
he really gets away with social murder there. Yeah. Yeah,
(48:23):
we saw his logic. But I think everyone smelled bad
in that era, Like I don't think people were bathing
every single day, even though maybe even not the rich people.
I feel like the rich people wore a lot of
like scents. They were covering it up. Must clowns. Gross.
But yeah, everyone probably smelled, especially I like, would there
(48:44):
have even been running water on the Titanic in the Yeah?
It was an amazing ship, ship of green and it was.
It really was a few of the moments happened and
I'm like, yeah, go Rose, the ship is like mid sink.
(49:05):
Cal is like, well you're going to go off to
him and be his good Yeah, and she's like I'd
rather be his hor than your wife. She spits in
his face. I love it. And also Billy Zane's mug
when he gets hit in the face of spit. Great
job by Billy Zane. Wonderful acting. Yeah, I would describe
(49:27):
it as like, what the heck, why did you do that?
And that's all he had to do. That was the job.
There's another part where Rose is trying to rescue Jack
from being handcuffed to like a pipe in the in
the room, and she realizes someone is going to be
able to help her, so she's like, fine, I'll take
matters into my own hands. And she just gets that
(49:49):
axe and goes and does it, and I'm just like,
girl power. But before is it before? I think it's before?
Right before she gets the axe, she punches that guy
in the face. Oh that too, And then he's trying
to do you get her up to safety and she's like, no,
I'm trying to save a life. Save a life here
not No one is in the wrong per se. It's
(50:12):
just a high pressure six, right. I think in retrospect
he would forgive her. Also, he probably died. There's another
scene where she's like running to the elevator and she's
like take me down. He's like no, and he's like
she's like, I'm through being like take me down. God
damn it, And then he does it. Yeah, don't funk
(50:33):
with Ross. She'll yell at you. This collection of all
these little moments that I didn't like necessarily pay that
much attention to before. But like on this rewatch, I
was like, oh, yeah, badass. She somehow manages the ax
thing that that she probably shouldn't have worked out. No,
she definitely would have chopped his hands off or like
(50:55):
very severely at least. Yeah either way, Like it's you know,
she's doing stuff, Yeah, she is doing stuff. Yeah, go Rose,
Go Rose, Rose Jack the last Rose Jack Rose Jack,
like a poor family about to die and they got
cut back to them. Oh god, it's so sad, all
(51:17):
those like the old people spooning. Can we talk about
how potentially Jack and Rose were the reason that the
at least in this depiction of the story, they were
the reason the ship hit the iceberg because the watch
out guys were distracted by them making out on the deck.
(51:38):
There probably wouldn't have been enough time anyway. Probably not
like to think they like sealed their own fate. Yeah,
if she had just gone off and done what she
was told, they all those people, she was responsible for
twelve hundred people dying or something. The moral of the
(51:58):
stories here is, uh, don't love anybody and don't get
in a relationship or kiss them, because you'll just cause
a lot of mass destruction. This is really a dystopian
view of a beautiful love story. They only knew each
other for two days. Haven't even heard my theories on
(52:19):
Jack being a child pornographer because one of the pictures
that he shows Rose this is a pair of adult hands,
probably man hands, on a naked child's body. His thumbs
are like covering the little girl's nipples, and it's like
(52:42):
this weird child porn thing. He can't draw his own hands, Caitlin.
It's not his hands, but he's I'm saying he's creating,
uh an image that is child pornography because it's like
adult hands on a little girl. Look it up, it happens.
I don't want to look it up. And then I
(53:03):
don't want to look it up. Could it be a father?
And yeah, but why is the girl naked? She's like
very chilly naked, real little thing. She's yeah, like if
she's well, if she's really little, then maybe she's getting
a badge. If she's like, no, that's weird. It's like
weirdly sexual. I don't want to al right, I don't
(53:28):
necessarily withdraw my suggestion that Jack is a child pornographer,
but I don't want other theory. Caitlin, I want other
people to tweet at us like a bomb shelter drop it.
I know, I know, I'm not sorry though. These are
dark times, okay, Trump, So let's just try to worse
(53:51):
than everybody. Everyone's a child molester, no way, man. Jack
was he was. He's a probably a stinky hobo, but
it was nice. Yeah. I mean, like I said, Jack
is a pretty good character. He spends most of the
time just like bending over backwards for Rose and just
(54:13):
like loving her for everything that she is and empowering her, crazing,
praising all of her her great qualities. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
so good on Jack. He's an ally. He he's such
a feminist. R I P. Fabrizio always want to give
a shout out. He's a good guy, he seemed. I
(54:37):
don't know. He mostly just said Italian words and then
was crushed by like a steam thing. But good guy,
good guy. We think we were pretty sure maybe he
was a child pornographer and we just didn't know it
could yeah, true, anyone could be. This is the this
is the Darante test. Tune in next week after the Darante.
(55:01):
Is your favorite male character in a movie a secret
child pornographer? I love it? It's like my theory that
the baldest woman in the movie is in charge. Yeah, yeah,
we're gonna these tests are gonna be famous. Andy, Do
you have a test now? I feel like I need one.
You can think about it, just tweet at it, keep
(55:21):
calm and take a selfie. That'll be fine. Fine. Um,
And does anyone have any other thoughts about the movie
and or its portrayals in the Ladies? It does a
weirdly I mean, a better job than I remembered. I
wouldn't have thought that it did so well just thinking
about because it's like a love story, and usually love
(55:43):
stories don't do that well, but it does really well. Yeah,
I agree all those moments. I was like, yeah, it
does give Rose a lot of one. Yeah, because a
lot of romance stories is usually like a rom com
where like they start out hating each other and then
they have to be like, oh, this guy's a dick,
but he's cute, so I and he's near where I am,
(56:06):
so we're going to fall in love Like this one,
like he likes that she's tough, yeah, he like they
like each other from the start, and like she's the
one who like keeps trying to pull away, but she's like,
you know what, No, I'm gonna get like my Dick's
hard a little bit for him, so I'm gonna, well,
I'm gonna see where this goes. I know, sorry to
(56:27):
use such a mitten male normative term for that, but
there's no there's no is there a female equivalent. I
guess like she's wet for him? Yeah, get it? Okay.
Also ties into the theme of water and sinking ships. Sorry,
(56:48):
I tried to force it wasn't very good. It's okay,
thank you. I was like, I'm not going to throw
a tantrum. You know what, I've done enough. But in
this movie, the romance is to like the vehicle that
gets her to like it's like, like it said before,
it's sort of the catalyst for her character arc. So
you can bring out the best in each other for
(57:09):
the time that they're together. So that's nice. Um, a partner,
do you have any thoughts about the movie you want
to share that you haven't trying to think what we
haven't covered. I feel like we did a pretty thorough job.
That spectal cast baby guys were really thorough. Boy. Yeah
(57:34):
that now she's an ally. Yeah, she's with us. I mean,
I feel like she was kind of firmly associated with
that movie for a while because of the song. So
it does pass about it does really soon. Yeah, it's
it's kind of nice that it passes so soon, and
it passes more than once, because there's so many movies
(57:55):
that we do where it's to be one. Yeah, like
we we did Groundhog Day and that just gets by
on like an exchange Animatedal has with a waitress a
about sticky buns. So even that's to stretch, and but
this one passes over and over and over, like pretty
(58:17):
much anytime there's a scene with two women in it,
it's generally not about a man, or or there's other
topics to it. Might either start with a conversation about
a man or end it, but like throughout the conversation
they talk about something other than a man. Usually, Like
I said before, I do wish the Rose and Molly
had more scenes together and that they were they I
(58:39):
feel like they should have palled up and like let's
do some fan fiction. Yeah, just some hanging out and
then are you are you ready to rate? Yeah? Okay,
so yeah, we rate it on a scale of zero
to five. Nipples specifically, about how it treats the female characters.
(59:00):
So I would. I would. I think I would give
this four. Yeah, I think there's a pretty high rating
les and I would give it. The nimples I would
give it would be, oh, we didn't talk about him
the officer who commits suicide because he feels bad, so
too are his? Then two are Molly Brown's Sure those
(59:22):
are the nimples. I give it definitely. Um. I would
also give it four. I think one of the reasons
just subconsciously that I've I saw this movie, you know,
twenty years ago for the first time, and have kept
watching it over and over over is that I was like, yeah,
it has really this pretty strong female character, which is
(59:43):
like usually when you're revisiting a movie, realize how bad
it is to women's surprise. So I'd give it four. Um.
I would because the movie is just as much about
roses like growth as a woman as it is about
a ship sinking and the romance. So I give it
(01:00:05):
a four. Two of them. Two of the nipples belong
to Jack when he's trembling and very sweaty during their
sex scene, and the other two got to be hairless, right, Yeah,
he was very hairless, very smooth, smooth Jack And I
say the other two are the nipples that we see
(01:00:26):
on Rose but not in real life. The drawing that
he does of her her like illustrated nipples, sketch nits.
Would you like to write the movie. I don't understand
how the nipples were. We just well, we we assigned
a number and then we just describe who they might
belong to. That's you don't have to do that part.
(01:00:47):
We do it for fun, because you know, I don't
remember the officer who committed suicide. Was that. Oh there's
a part. So when the when the rescue boats are
starting to get full, they're crowding, and then one of
the officers, I think it's the first officer Murdoch takes
out again and shoots at the crowd and kills Ivory,
(01:01:09):
Tommy and someone else. And then I think he realizes
that he's in over he's in over his head. WHOA
another kills himself. Great puns and it's very sad, and
also I would argue in retrospect, very unprofessional. They could
they really could have used those people. Yeah he giofed, yeah,
(01:01:32):
but they could have used him for another hour or so.
Uh And that did really happen. That's a thing that happened. Really, Yeah,
who question that movie is real? Yeah, that would be
like a mean thing to do to someone who actually existed,
if he hadn't actually done that. Well, that's uh. Did
you want to give it a number of nipples? Oh? Yeah,
I will also give it for and I give to
(01:01:55):
the Fabrizio. Oh alright, I bet a pretty hairy being.
Don't put him in a box. Yeah, and and I'll
give you to Molly Brown. Very nice, awesome, Thanks you
so much for being here when people than you like
on Twitter. Oh yeah, my Twitter is just a par
(01:02:16):
napkin and my website is just a partner comedy dot com. Wonderful.
Thanks lady. Thanks for Happy Valentine's Day every time. Careful
You're your one true love might be a child pornographer.
Think about that, Caitlin. Okay, bye, I can fix kal.
(01:02:40):
Oh we forgot to do the check in for the
middle part of the movie. Hey guys, it's uh, we're
checking in. We're checking We stopped where the first VHS
would have stopped. I'm a little wine drunk. How are you?
I'm a little wine drunk, But mostly I'm just like
(01:03:04):
we identified several points in the movie where it's like, oh,
this is where you really start feeling it. Um. Yeah,
I'm a little fragile at this point. I again, I'm
a bit of a robot, so I'm not quite there yet.
I already cried twice. I cried when they kissed because
that's so beautiful. And then I cried when I thought
(01:03:26):
about Mr Andrews because he has such integrity. He does,
so does e j. Oh. Can I pitch my cop
my buddy cop? I do? Okay, this will cheer us all.
So because it was Captain E. J. Smith's last voyage
ever and he was going to retire the second he
got to New York, I want to make a Buddy
(01:03:47):
Cup movie of like it was his last week on
the force. But this captain is gonna get a little surprise.
And then the identic thinks I'm still in a bad mood.
I think if you remember the scene where like he's
in like the room with the steering wheel or whatever
(01:04:08):
it's and then the windows break in and all of
the water comes like rushing, and I feel like if
you just like lay flapstick comedy music over that, it
could just be like a really very like buster kind
of thing. Well, okay, so Jamie is an emotional wreck
I am doing Okay. The thing about this movie is
that I'm like a little ambivalent toward the first half.
(01:04:31):
Like I like it, I enjoy it progressively the second
half because I the second half this movie is just
like a terrific action movie with like such good practical effects.
I love it. First half though, is my emotional core,
because it's all over the place. There's a toxic relationship,
it moves too fast. There are nudes, their promises broken.
(01:04:56):
There's a mean brunette who's all about what he wants.
You mean, first have his dope. Billy Zane. Billy Zane.
I'm talking about Billy Zane. I feel like he started
like that. You identified a man character as his hair color,
the way that like a lot of people, you know
that blonde, and it's almost always referring to a woman. Yeah,
(01:05:17):
let's start doing that. Let's start reducing men to their
hair color. I'm very sensitive to male hair colors, so
maybe a more one, try not. How do you feel
about blonde adults? So yeah, but I would say Leo
is is sandy enough that Yeah, I still get very
wet for him. So there you have it. See as
On thee Cast, the questions asked if movies have women
and um are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,
or do they have individualism, the patriarchy and best start
changing it with the Betel Cast. Hello, and welcome to
the Bechtel Cast. Hi. I'm Caitlin Arante. I'm Jamie Loftus,
(00:22):
and I don't know what Okay, Well, I've been starting
it a couple of times now, but I always I
forgot how to do it. I forgot. It's okay. I'm
very distraught right now. This is the episode we've been
waiting for. I know, I feel really I feel a
lot of pressure. It's a Valentine's Day episode. Do you
have Valentine? Maybe that's not not a good question. If
(00:44):
I've plans, Yeah, oh absolutely not. I'm doing a show
on Valentine's Day. Well that's fine. Yeah, it's our bar.
I'm oh, I know, I know the one you're blam
blam blam. Yeah cool. I'm watching The Jinks with my
friend and then we're going to the Wedurst Case the
next morning. Oh, that's right. So this is the Becktel Cast.
(01:06):
We talked about uh women and their representation in movies.
Usually it's bad. Sometimes it's not. Uh, today we did
something we never did before. This is a special. We
hung out offside we Yeah, we've never done that before.
I actually do them. We we watched this movie together.
This is the first time in Bectel cast history that
(01:27):
we saw the movie together. Uh. The pizza only I
ate the pizza. No one wanted the pizza. Pizza. We
did drink a lot of white wine. We did, but
there was a third person, our friend Courtney was there
as well. She barely drank and absolutely did not eat
any pizza. And I anyways, I for sure ate six
pieces of pizzay, six pieces of chicken um, and a
(01:50):
large amount of wine. Not that I was shaming you
at all. I really admire that. I think we went
pound for pound. Did we not wine? Yeah? Yeah, okay,
So that's fine. And the reason we watched this movie
together is it's a movie that we both have seen, Jamie.
It's a movie. It's a movie I watched alone a lot,
but it's better not alone. Yeah, it's a movie we
(02:13):
seen and love. It's Titanic. Titanic. We have a very
special guest that we're going to introduce in a second.
But we Uh, we watched the movie together, and we
recorded different segments during the screening that we will insert
into the episode, like maybe right now. For the first one,
we did a pre movie one, so enjoy. Hey everyone,
(02:38):
it's Caitlin and Jamie and we're in a different location
than usual. We're in my house. Uh, we are about
to watch Titanic together. And we just buried a body.
We just buried a body. That's when we go offsite.
Aristotle was supposed to come, but then he said no,
and then we killed him. And that's whose body the body.
So now that we're all caught up, we're about to
(02:58):
watch Titanic. I haven't watched it and I think two years,
which is unusual. I usually do plan a few There's
a few movies I watched annually that are very long.
It's Titanic and Gone with the Wind. I watched this
movie two to three times a year, and I saw
it pretty recently. How do you handle that? It's so like,
I don't know if I have a lot of a
(03:19):
lot going on in my life and I have a
lot of time what you mean, like emotionally, Yeah, like
I have the time I rewatched season two of Grayce
and Frankie today rewatched it. Wow, I've got the time.
That's not the issue the emotional capacity. I think that
I just operated at such a low level of emotional intelligence.
(03:40):
I need movies like this to like to activate the
emotion parts of my brain. You sound like a robot anyways,
love Titanic. Yeah, well, I can't wait to watch this
with you. We're going to check back in I think
around the midpoint of the movie. Yeah, I know exactly.
Were the VHS number one stop? Same, We'll check in there, great,
(04:04):
all righty, and then uh we we stopped in the middle, which,
for all you Titanic heads out there, is where the
first VHS ends. Captain E. J. Smith turns basically to
camera and says, I think you may get your headlines
after all, mrsme. Then we talked there, and then uh
(04:24):
one big long segment at the end. Yes, yes, so
we will check in periodically and go to those segments.
But for now, let's introduce our wonderful guests. Yeah, she's
a very funny comedian and wonderful person a partner Nan Charla.
Hello here, so you picked this movie, and you picked
(04:46):
it because do you also like it? Do you love it.
I have a confession. I didn't watch it recently, but
I have watched it, I would say upwards of maybe
four times in my life. Okay, I mean that's like
I've seen it, but it's not that high. But but
I do remember when it first came out, I was
(05:08):
like obsessed with it for a while. Yeah, I felt
like it swept the nation. It certainly did. The people
were kind of divided, if I remember, because some people
thought that, like the dialogue was really bad. I remember
that was a complaint. It's pretty bad. There are some
scenes where the dialogue is especially bad and the acting
is especially does not crush it. And this she does
(05:33):
not that bad of a job once the ship starts sinking,
but up until then, she's pretty bad at acting, which
I think. She openly admits her American accent is a
little weird and like the I used to try when
I was younger to imitate the way she would speak,
because it was the We talked about this when we
watched it, Like the cadence of it is so weird
(05:54):
that it sounded very elegant and so yeah, yeah, yeah,
I she's like poor little rich girl. No, no, no, no,
like a weird Shakespearean quality to it. Yeah, I wonder
if she was trying to go for like upper class Yeah,
like almost like a Brands Atlantic. But I don't know.
(06:16):
We don't even need to do a recap, I don't
think honestly, I feel like we lose more and more
structure each time. Yes, Oh, do you guys usually recap
the movie? Because I do, and I always do a
very bad job. And it takes about take a watch
several hours. I was about the length of the movie itself.
I was looking for speed versions of it on YouTube,
(06:38):
and there's some really strange homages to the movie out there.
There was like one that was it was like a
condensed version the movie with just like weird close ups
on the people's faces and then just like techno music.
Oh so people are just like, I love this movie,
I'm gonna and the like sometime. Yeah, well, like they
(07:02):
summarized it but with technolo. Yeah, they just like took
key moments and did it in chronological order and put
it to techno. Yeah, we'll watch one of those to
it in the description do it. When it came out,
I saw it not to brag in a drive in
movie theater. With my mom and sister. That's a great
(07:24):
way to see this movie. I watched it at first
in secret. I wasn't allowed to see it when it
came out, so I think it was five when it
came out. Uh. But I stole my mom's vhs uh
copies of it at one point and brought it to
my cousin's house, where we proceeded to watch it. Got
(07:44):
busted watching the nude scene, of course, but then my aunt,
she's a cool aunt, and she was like, keep watching kids. Yeah.
And then once my mom found out I had already
seen it, she was just like, all right, you can.
I guess they just keep watching it. Family members. You
have a million cool careless you know. Was it scary
(08:06):
five year old? Well, I didn't see it, And as
I didn't see it to this, I think ten, And
at that point it was just like hot cool thing,
like I don't know, yeah, not that things are hot
when you're ten, but maybe they are. I don't remember.
But and then uh, in junior high, like I I
loved this movie for so much for so long that
(08:26):
in junior high to like retain my like punk rock credibility.
In in junior high, I tried to switch gears and
be like, oh, I don't love the movie. I love
learning about details about shipwrecks, and so I have a
ton of knowledge about shipwrecks. Because I was just like
(08:46):
really nervous that people were gonna just think I loved Titanic,
which is I did, Yeah, but I also know about
a ton of military never happened. I was just like,
I don't give a funk what people think about me.
I'm just gonna watch this movie every day for an
entire summer, sometimes twice in a row. True story, I've
probably seen this movie fifty times. Twice is the whole day?
(09:12):
Oh yeah, it's like six and a half hour. My
sister and I would start it in the morning, watch
the whole thing. I have to switch out the VHS
tapes and then rewind and start from the beginning immediately after.
It was like I was obsessed with this. Well, I mean,
if you've got a sister too, that's like I land
a brother and he he was not as on board
(09:34):
to watch it with me. That's the other thing about
this movie is that I think I don't want to
make any sweeping generalizations here, but I think most a
lot of women have at least seen it, and many
enjoy it more so than a lot of guys who
have never seen it. Most men I've talked to I
think they're like, yeah, I never saw that movie. I'm like,
(09:55):
but it's so good. Yeah, yeah, I don't. I don't.
I don't care about it. The I liked this movie
for the wrong reasons, which is that I think it
has amazing practical effects and great action, so I the
movie doesn't really kick it into gear for me until
(10:15):
like Act two, which is or the end of act
two or who knows. I mean, the inciting incident happens
in this movie an hour and a half into it.
How many how many college degrees you have? I have
three now because I have two of mine and one
of you. I took yours. That's fine. I don't need it.
I like this movie for all the wrong reasons that
(10:36):
I think everyone likes it for the romance. The romance
freaking beautiful, I like. I mean, the more I see it,
the more I appreciate the romance, especially on this reason. Rewatch,
I was like, all right, I gotta pay extra attention
to Rose her female character. Let's then like, I was like,
(10:56):
holy sh it. She's like, she's great, and we'll go
and to more detail about that. Yeah, I was trying
to think of all the female characters. I mean, she's
obviously the main one that there's her mom, there's her mom,
and there's Cathy Bates Molly Brown, but also pretty much
I feel like Catthy Bates that part couldn't have been
(11:17):
cast better. Like, yeah, she's great, she's great. I love
the scene where she takes Leonardo DiCaprio and it's like,
try all my son's clothes and he's like it fits perfect,
like end of scene. Yeah, it's great. I know I
wanted her. She like ends up being a mentor for Jack,
but I wanted her to be a mentor for Rose
more because she's like, I'm a strong woman. You're a
(11:41):
strong woman. I'm a little older than you. Let me
show you how to be a bad bitch, right, But
she sort of teaches Jack and stuff to not be pore.
Oh yeah she can. Yeah, it's a little more. Well,
that's an interesting thought that said Jack and Rose are
both fictional. All Brown is real. I guess we'll just
(12:01):
dive right in. I really like Rose now, like I
was like, she just she just yells out Jack a
lot towards the end. And that's my impression of her
first name assaulted in this movie. Uh yeah, yeah, she's great,
she's great. Yeah, it's great. A little hasty to want
to kill herself. It seems abrupt. I wonder if that's
(12:25):
the and that that comes really early though, doesn't it? Really? Wait,
I should have made a pun when I was like,
let's just jump in it should have been really it
should have been a better pun about jumping into the
water something. I thought you were making a pun when
you said that. Guys not not on board with it?
(12:46):
WHOA so many nautical references? Yeah, let's see how many
we can do. I used to make My high school
boyfriend watched this movie with me all the time, and
he was like training to be a naval syer and
it would would just be three hours of like that's
not how bull works. And I was like it was
so nice, But oh yeah, you said that she's a
(13:11):
she's a bit quick to just throw herself off the
back of a boat, which either she's got some mental
health issues that she's not addressing or like, again, no
one knew who Freud was even back then, because Mrs
May is like, who's Freud a passenger? Um, So you know,
psychology didn't really exist that much back then, so maybe
(13:33):
she was morbidly depressed. It we don't have a lot
of context with she just I think the way it's
introduced is weirder because like the narration, uh just says
like inside I was screaming, and then cut she's about
to kill her running, So it's like, well, this could
have been a huge lead that we just don't know. Yeah,
either way, what happens next is a trope that happens
(13:56):
in a lot of movies where a guy has to
save a woman, which like normally would annoy me, but
then I got to thinking about it, I guess I
was like, oh, I guess it's a guy saving a girl.
But then I was thinking about her situation, and I
was like, I get I don't know, I could understand
(14:18):
in her position and class, she wouldn't maybe have that
many options right right, Like there wasn't because and then
you find out later like she it's basically an arranged
marriage and she has to do it so that her
and her mom can continue to like maintain their lifestyle,
and it seems like she's kind of been sold off
(14:38):
to Billy Zane, Blee Zane, Billy Zane. We'll get to
Billy Zane because I don't know. I have a whole
new perspective on Billy Zane now, which is that I
could fix him. Wow, fix him? I don't know. I
think he's too far beyond help. He's a he's a
(15:00):
he's a sociopath. No way, baby, I can fix I mean,
I I am confident in you and in your abilities, Jamie.
But I said I could fix the Gaston, and I
think that that's true. I also think I can fix
um my love. I can't make any sense of my notes.
I think what I was trying to say is that like, yeah,
he has to. He saves her, but it sort of
(15:24):
is the catalyst for her character arc. Oh there's a
scene where she's like, it's not up to you to
save me, Jack. This is later on in the story,
and he's like, you're right, only you can do that,
And I was like, yeah, I like that he acknowledges
her autonomy and stuff like that. Um, And there's a
great speech he gives to her and that weird Jim,
(15:47):
that's the scene. Maybe it's the gym equipment. There's like
a scene where she like blows him off and then
he's like, don't go. You know you're the best. And
they're in this insane in looking Jim with all these
like nine early oh steampunk reference of the episode. It
(16:07):
looks like a steampunk jymnasy. Yeah, ye, confusing contraptions. We
can't go an episode without mentioning something about steam punk.
So far, so far, got to keep the street going, Yeah, exactly.
He does give us like he's like, you're the most
amazingly incredible, brave girl woman I've ever known. And he's like,
(16:31):
he doesn't say anything about her looks, he's just like
commenting entirely on her like strength of character, and then
he like excellent, calls her a girl. He's like, no,
you're even though you're seventeen, you're a woman. And I
was like, yeah, good, good job. Got she's supposed to
be seventeen, I think not yet, oh seventeen. So there's
(16:53):
that like kind of empowering moment. There's the one where, oh,
early on in the movie, there's a scene were they're
at dinner and Rose like blows smoke in her mom's face.
She's like I don't care that you don't like me smoking,
and then Billy's interested and yeah, and then um Molly's like,
are you gonna cut her meat for her too? So
(17:15):
you have these like a few moments early on where
you like see women being like pretty badass, and and
then there's this scene where she's like trying to commit
suicide and Jack's like, oh, you know ice fishing. He's
like just trying to man splain ice fishing to her,
and she's like, I know what ice fishing is. And
I loved that. I just love I'm just gonna do
(17:36):
that anytime someone man splaining something to me, even if
I don't know. I know what ice fishing is. Okay,
I've never been ice fishing. I have no idea how
it works. That's when you poke a hole in ice
and then you put your line. Yeah, I know what
ice fishing is. It was in an episode of Fraser once.
Oh yeah. Shortly after that, there's a line where that
(17:59):
I don't even know who this character is, but he's
like it's like I always say, women in machinery do
not mix. Wait when was that, Oh, I think it's
whenever she rose as a very good Caitlin impression because
she's like, I was leaning far over to see the uh,
the the the rudders. That's me talking because I can't
(18:22):
say a single sentence without filling it with like ten
vocal fillers. Um so, but yeah, and then she's like, oh,
they're like, oh women in machinery, she wanted to see
the rudders. That's dumb. Yeah, so I guess the men.
A lot of the men are in in gender normative
roles except for Jack. Yeah, I'd say so, because Jack
(18:44):
just spends most of the movie like trying to empower Rose. Yeah,
I mean, and then there's also kind of just like
a lot of men just doing jobs, like most of
the ship crew. They don't cause conflict other than not
preventing the ship from right. But there's a lot of
I mean, like Cal for sure is terrible Cal Cal
(19:06):
or Billy's ans weird. Butler, Yeah, he's a valid valet.
He's around, he wants to help, presumably for money, we
don't know, but he falls, you know, he's he's not
a good guy. Mr Lovejoy, Mr. It's a great name.
Threw name, um Yeah, because he follows Jack and Rose
(19:29):
around quite a bit. And then Mr is may like
the owner of the White Star line. He's not a
great guy either. No, he just wants fast. He just
wants to make the headlines and monetize. We must make
headlines now, I went to marvel her speed. Yeah, so
he's a piece of ship. Mr Andrews though, to Carber,
(19:53):
so handsome in this movie. I mean, I can't necessarily
agree with you, but you're like, you have this one.
You're crazy. He's the most handsome man in the whole movie.
You know what. Billy Zane is totally my type. I
just love a guy with sicker eyelashes than I have.
That's what is wearing a crazy amount of makeup in
(20:14):
the He's wearing so much eyeliner. Yeah, And it was like,
is that is that something people did or is that
just something Billy Zane does because no one else in
the movie does it exactly for him and uh and
all the female characters at Mac a lot of like
almost cat eyes. He looks great. I know I want
to do I want to I want someone to do
(20:36):
a makeup tutorial on YouTube, but like to replicate Billy Zane.
Billy's ane nice. And oh I also like there's a
part where she like does all the math in her
head and figures out that there aren't enough lifeboats. She's like,
I was doing the sum in my head, and it's like, yeah,
you cool girl, you do that math. One of my
(20:58):
favorite lines is after Jackets invited to dinner and they're
all sitting at dinner and it's like winding down Roses
Like now they go retreat into a cloud of smoke
and congratulate each other on being masters of the universe.
And I was like, yeah, we can still do that.
This is the thing that men do, namely our current
(21:20):
presidential administration. Whoa. And then I feel like I'm talking
a lot. I'm talking. I'm just I feel bad because
I didn't watch it recently, so I don't remember that
on that level in detail. I know, we're like really
getting into the nitty gritty of this movie. It's fresh
and we've both seen it so many times. Mean, did
(21:42):
you ever see Ghosts of the Abyss? No? Oh, I
think that's what it's called. It's like a two thousand
two documentary that James Cameron made where he went back
to the titan because he just loves going to the Titanic.
I think I remember that coming out. I didn't see
it though, but yeah, I think he's spent so much
time re searching it before he even did the movie.
It was so expensive, like it was crazy expensive, and
(22:04):
I feel like he maybe only made the movie so
you have an excuse to go down. But like, what
what a gift to the world? Was good? Did you
you saw that? It was good? I mean it was.
It was just like a lot of technical like they
were basically trying to figure out like can we raise
it and can it be preserved? And the answer is no,
(22:27):
it just fall apart, So you just got to leave
it there and it's sort of a slowly decomposing What
about the submarine guys? Oh yeah, oh Bill Paxton, Bill
Bill packed. I don't know how I feel about that,
like book ending the movie, because we don't even we
don't even arrive in this in the narrative in nineteen
(22:47):
twelve until twenty minutes into the movie. Yeah, I clocked
it and maybe does Yeah, like it goes a little
I feel like that happens because James Cameron wants to
show everyone all his cool footage from Titanic, Like think
the only reason that why that exists. I don't know,
like how much of a punch does it peg that
there isn't like well it makes it. It's it seems
(23:10):
like it's setting it up to be this huge important
component of this story later because they're searching for the diamond,
but the diamond like it just doesn't really it doesn't
have much to do with the rest of the story.
So that's really the only thing it ends up being. Yeah, exactly.
It ends up being like a bit of a plot
device whenever love Joy frames Jack for stealing it and
(23:33):
then they lock them up, and then it creates like
this extra sequence of tension whenever Jack or roses like,
I don't know he was my boyfriend, but then he
stole that necklace, so oh man, and then Jack and
then that's horship, don't you believe them? You know? I
didn't you know. I mean, it's like she met you
(23:53):
two days ago, so she doesn't really know you. Then
comes one of the worst lines of dialogue and the
higher movie, which is one he's like, how do you
find out I didn't do it? And she's like, I
didn't I just realized I already knew, but she said,
like new and it's that ends up being like, I
(24:13):
guess a part of the story. But then what drives
me crazy is the end when she throws it overboard.
People got so upset about that. I got upset mostly
because she could have taken that piece of jewelry and
sold it to whoever wanted to buy it, and then
(24:34):
she could have founded Planned Parenthood or donate to it
or like just use those millions and millions of dollars.
It doesn't to put some women through college or something,
but I don't think it would have. I feel like
they would have like put it in a museum or something.
I don't think it would have been sold or anything.
(24:56):
It didn't. I don't know. That didn't bother me too
much because it's like the last thing she before she dies,
I think, and like no one's ever going to know,
and it was hers. I just that's the other thing.
So she dies like she's like she would seem to be.
She regaled this whole story. She seemed fine, and then
what she just dies all of a sudden because it
was the because it was the last thing she had
(25:19):
to do. Maybe Iver told the story before. Maybe this
is the part where we should check in the last part,
and I'll fired up. Yeah, so hey, let's check in.
We're gonna do this out of order, but we're gonna
the last part because this is when I was like,
(25:40):
I don't like that. She dies and you're like so much.
Hey listen now, I'm sorry that's laughing and that's oh
god each other and then and everyone's there. Is that
(26:12):
supposed to be like a dreamer? Is it supposed to
be heaven? I was always like, oh, she just falls
asleep and it's a dream heaven. She dies and then
she goes to heaven where everyone's waiting for her to
kiss someone. That's what it's like for her. Everyone's just
(26:37):
hanging out. Jack is in his like poor people clothes
and he's looking at the clock. It's so sad, but
it's so happy. It's okay. Um, I wish I wasn't
(26:58):
such a weird robot that I was more. No, I'm
overdoing it. We've also had probably five glasses of wine each.
I can't believe it. It's nevertheless said, oh I think back, Sorr.
I think I just stopped for like ten minutes. I'm
(27:20):
sorry that. I was like, oh, we should record this
now we're still crying. So the movie has ended. Yes,
there's justinished we've been through a journey together, exhaustive. I
love that movie so much. We were quoting every line
(27:42):
of dialogue. We knew every line in the movie. It
wasn't even a bit. It was just and our friend Courtney,
who was probably very annoyed with us because she was like, guys,
can you stop, I'm trying to pay attach into that movie?
And we're just like, that's gonna be want that's on this.
If you don't shut that hold on, you'll face r
(28:05):
I P. Officer Murdoch. Honestly, yeah, that be harder than
it ever has. My crush for him apparently has grown
more intense over time. My crush is still on Captain Fantastic. Yeah,
we've got to talk about that, the hot guy at
the end who's like, is there anyone out there? Can
(28:25):
anyone anyway? I looked him up and I was like,
who's this very attractive man in this movie at all?
He did well? And then I was like, holy sh it,
it's Captain Fantastic from the Fantastic Four? Is that like
the idea? That's who was Jessica elbow one O the
first Yeah? Yeah, okay, well that's better. Oh I thought
(28:48):
none of them were good. I didn't see any of them.
But what do you haven't seen a movie? That movie
was so sad, Yes, Courtney, I did enjoy watching it
with you guys cast as all the characters. We did
good though, a pretty good job. We got all the
ex ends and all the cadence. Yeah. I bought my
(29:10):
whole punch and I didn't even use it. Oh wait,
what were we going to use it for? I was
gonna craft I have all the time like this. I
wanted to believe the best in myself. I didn't do it.
We'll never let go, Jamie. You're gonna live. You're gonna
make lots of babies and watch him grow and then
(29:33):
I'm gonna die. That part and all lady, I resent
that part because he's basically saying that, like, the only
worth you have is a woman is to be a mother. Yeah,
but he still couldn't been a little bit more femininely,
you're gonna go get a STEM degree and you're gonna
manage a company, and you're gonna be valued by everyone
(29:55):
around you, and then you're gonna die. I wish he
would have said that, Yes he was died. I feel
like I'm inadequate emotionally because I don't know how to
compute or express or press that's emotion for power, I'm
like sweating through my clothes. Well, I also it comes
(30:17):
at a price, which is that I don't know how
to be in relationship. I think between the two of
us we feel enough for two people. Though it's just like,
it's just like, how between the two of us we
have three degrees. Between the two of us, we have
the emotions of two people, the emotions of two people,
and the emotions of zero people. I saw. I would
(30:44):
like to dedicate this episode to all the victims of
the Titanic, all fifteen hundred of them, particularly those in
the lower classes. And hey to the women, women and
children and children who didn't make it. We're like sucking
your allies, and we're not sucking in a march star.
We're marching march on the White House and be like,
what about Titanic? All right, Hey, everyone, thanks for listening.
(31:12):
He's out. My heart will go on. Oh that's true,
it will, it will. Oh. It was about to sing it,
and then I didn't remember, and I can't sing. Okay, bye,
and we're back. I'm not looking for it to listening
(31:35):
to that, I don't think I will. Uh No, you
were great. I was really mean. I was like kind
of making fun of you for crying, and I was like,
I'm over here laughing and Jamie's crying. I didn't like
the ending. That is such a beautiful part of the
because you go back at the end and you're like,
there was like, well, these b characters and they're all
(31:57):
there and they're so happy, and Jack is just staring
at a clock. Who knows how long he's been there,
and then he turned around and then they pan up
and the captain's there. It's so nice. It's so nice.
I always feel bad when a character in a movie
has like the love of their life and then they
die and then someone else comes along and it's like,
(32:18):
I guess that person doesn't matter that much. Yeah, Yeah,
it's like because I think in the story she was
married to the same guys and they have all these
kids and grandkids, and then it's like, what about that
guy's story? But yeah, that's not the last thing she
wanted to think about. My granddaughter who's right here with me, well,
her grand her granddaughter also has a thing for Bill Paxton.
(32:43):
All right, they do sort of shoehorn that little well,
and in the alterna and the alternate ending they might kiss.
I don't know. Oh, it's so bad. It's on YouTube,
like she's about to throw the diamond overboard and they'll
Paxton runs up. She's like no, He's like, no, don't
do it, and then she like does this whole speech.
(33:06):
I don't remember. It's just horrendous. It's not good, But
I mean sure, I guess the reason that like she
was so affected but or like that she's going to
reunite with him in heaven or whatever, is that he
allowed her to escape this trapped life that she was in,
and he was like the catalyst that got her to
(33:29):
become this new woman, it's new independent woman. And so yeah,
he played a very significant role in her life. Each
other romance, Happy Valentine's Day, everyone, Love is Dead. Here's
something that bought that I hadn't really thought about the
first forty times I watched the movie because I was
(33:51):
moodier and probably liked my mom less than I do
now last time I saw it. I don't know how
well it sits with me. The Rose presumably never talks
to her mom, who survives ever again, like she I
presumably allows her mom to believe that she has died.
Her mom is not great, and her mom was sort of,
(34:13):
you know, selling her off to the highest bidder. But
you know, you can argue it was for survival purpose.
I don't know. I just it's weird to me that
I mean, and she changes her last name, but I
feel like where it's pure speculation that never that's true.
I hope they saw each other. I think there should
(34:34):
be a sequel like Rose and Ruth. Yeah, like they
share an apartment that netflix during World War Two. That
was like, yeah, at that point, is just mom's kind
of old. But yeah, I had never that had never
occurred to me before. We're obviously you know at the end,
(34:57):
you see Billy Zane looking around island and then she
hides from him, and I was like, okay, well I
get that you don't want to see him again. Yeah,
she definitely ghosted on him. Yeah, I hope she saw
her mom again. Yeah she's not real her mom. Yeah,
(35:19):
her mom was had some problems. But there's a great
scene let's talk about that where I'm jumping ahead a
little bit, but because guess what the movie does pass
the Bechdel test. It does because there's there's a it
happens on a few instances, but there's a scene pretty
early too. I think the first time it passes, if
I'm not mistaken, is when old Rose is talking to
(35:43):
her granddaughter and yeah, because they're talking about the Titanic
or whatever. Yeah. A little later on, there's the scene
where Rose's mom is talking to her like lame rich
friends and they're having tea, and she like, well, the
purpose of university is to find a suitable husband. Rose
(36:03):
has already done that. It's like, oh God, don't they
discuss the color lavender in that scene? For some reason,
I think they're talking about Oh. I think that's a
different scene. But it is with those horrible rich ladies.
I've never seen The Godfather, but I've seen this movie.
It's times I've never seen Forrest Gump. I could have
(36:26):
done so much with all that time. You've got all
the time in the world to watch a bunch of movies,
thank you. Anyway, there's a scene where Ruth is talking
to Rose and she's like doing up her girdle or
her petty course of course it. Yeah, I couldn't. I
think that's the sexiest way to describe that garment. Yeah, yeah,
(36:48):
I forget what a girdle is, but I think it
is it the same thing and the steam punk thing.
They're like roses like, oh, you like put this burden
on me of having to marry cal because all of
our money is gone, and and she's like it's not fair,
and Ruth is like, of course it's not fair where
women and I was like, it's not fair. Why do
(37:13):
we all have to marry Billy sane? You know, we're
just young girls. I want to talk about the nude scene.
In the sex scene pretty close together. They were pretty
much one right after well because it's like the nude
scene and then they get chased around Butler go and
(37:35):
then they had sex because they are Yeah, I think
it's interesting and like, this is something I cannot imagine
me or most people I have ever met doing. But
going from they like have their first kiss and then
like the next step is like and now you're going
to draw me nude? Like that was the next thing
(37:56):
that they do. That was second base. That is pretty
four especially for that time, I'm guessing, especially considering she's
like she was a very upper crust and she knew
she knew he drew nudes. I guess right, that's why
it had to be nude, because things that it didn't Oh,
(38:18):
I didn't. It was weird that she jumped to nude.
I like it. Oh, I love that part because it's
like drew non nudes. He showed her a lot of
type of stuff. I think she was just like trying
to get things go, like they'd hung out a little bit,
but they hadn't. Like she was just trying to make
the first move. And you're capable of being casual with people.
(38:39):
This is who ever met me. No. No, but you
can like do it. I mean, I've initiated every time
I've had sex. I was like, you have to draw.
That's great, that's yeah. It was just like, first, I'm
going to wear this kimono. I want you to draw
me wearing this, and it's a be necklace I bought
(39:00):
from Claire's in two thousands one. And then he draws
me and when I have in the backseat of a car. No.
The reason I like it so much is that, like
everything is on her terms. She's like, I was this stuffy,
little pressy girl. I don't want to be drawn like
a porcelain doll. Anymore. Here's some money, I expect what
I want, Draw me naked, and it's just like she's
(39:22):
coming into her own you know. She's she knows what
she wants and she's not afraid to go out and
get it. And she I'm sure was sexually repressed up
until then, because there's a few conversations earlier in the
movie where Cal is like, I thought you would come
to me last night, and she's like, I was tired.
And then there's another part where he's like, you're my wife.
(39:44):
You should honor me the way a wife is required
to honor. Cal's very horny. She will not put out,
and so I love that. And she's like, yeah, Cal,
you're not going to get into this bomb pussy. But Jack,
go over here, this homeless man who I met two
days ago, I will fuck you all night long. I okay.
(40:06):
Obviously Cal not a great guy. I do think that
maybe if they spent some more time together, they would
become like normal parents that sort of hate each other.
But it's like, well they got some sort of fun going.
That may be true if he wasn't a complete narcissist
and sociopath like that No, it's but uh the scene
(40:28):
where he gives her the necklace and basically it's like
he's has sex with me. It's so funny. He's very
he's you know, he's just like using for it, like
open your heart. He's like cross, but he's trying so hard.
Well that's I love that that he's like totally being
cuck holded by Yeah, I can bring you can bring
(40:52):
in that, or I was using cuckolded long before the
fucking all those conservatives commandeered that term, and I didn't
watch a documentary about birds where I learned all about
well done, well done. The point that I'm trying to
arrive at is that every like sexual experience that Rose
(41:16):
has is like just very much on her terms. She
initiates everything. She's just like she's feeling very sexually empowered,
and she's like, I'm going to go for it, and
Jack is like sure, and she's like put your hands
on me, Jack, and he's like okay, and then they're
like mid coitus and he's like sweating and trembling and
he's just like I can't handle this. Bom pussy. I
(41:40):
think you're really like writing fan fiction. We don't see them.
Have we see them initiative and no, well there's a
scene where like there it might be like post coitas.
You never see him like thrusting into her. But hey, mom,
you see wait, I have I have the scene pulled
(42:01):
up from the James Cameron script here. Oh yes, please
read so. And I don't know where this fits into
uh you know this is this is I think we
could argue a woman's movie. The woman is the driving
force in the movie. It is written by James Cameron,
who is sort of notoriously overly perverted in the way
(42:24):
that he writes. Uh. And I remember reading this when
I was like a teenager. I was like, I want
to read the script. I really, I want to know
everything about this dope movie. Uh. And the way he
writes a sex scene is very long and very gross.
Jack jumps into the driver's seat, enjoying the feel of
the leather and wood. Jack says, where to miss Rose
(42:47):
to the stars on on Jack as her hands come
out of the shadows and pull him over the seat
into the back. He lands next to her, and his
breath scenes loud and the quiet darkness. He looks at
her and she is smiling. It is the moment of truth, Jack,
are you nervous? Rose? Oh, contrere mon cher. He strokes
(43:10):
her face, cherishing her. Uh. She kisses his artist's fingers. Still, Rose,
put your hands on me, Jack. He kisses her and
she slides down in the seat under his Welcome Weight
cut to the hit an Iceberg. But the way you
sex it's it's nasty. The way that, well, any screener
(43:35):
writing class will tell you that you don't need all
of that discretion. First, it's so long, it's paragraphs of
just weird adjectives. Welcome weight is really the phrase that's
stuck with sounds like fan fiction. It does, Yeah, it
sounds like an e book. The way he wrote it,
(43:55):
it's it's kind of gross. And then going off of that,
I've I've read more than one James Cameron scripture. And
then he wrote a treatment of Spider Man, the Toby
McGuire one that's just as gross, like just as pervy,
where there's like scenes in it where he's like a
peeping tom, like looking at Mary Jane. Uh. There's a
(44:20):
scene where he, you know, it's like oh this the
webs are come and it's his sexual awakening and the
come makes him more powerful, and it's just he's God,
he's a sick freak, he's mass. I don't think it
translates that much onto the screen, though, because it really doesn't.
(44:45):
I wonder if there's someone behind the scenes who's just like,
don't do that. Try not to think about those words
when you do that. Well. I was thinking also about
like the Nude Team, where she like takes off for
robe when we see her like naked breasts, Like you
always have to question if there's a nudity a woman
(45:05):
nude in a movie, is it to satisfy the male
gaze or is it something else that's actually important for
the story. And I think in this case, like for reals,
I feel like it's an act of defiance. She's like
it's been all stuffed up in these corsets and like
I been all prim and proper my whole life and
(45:26):
not anymore. So I feel like it's like in symbolic
of her being like that's not who I am anymore.
I'm this new woman who's going to suck a stranger
right after he draws me naked. That makes sense, I'm
on word with that, I mean, And just the fact
that it gets everyone in the theater horned up. There's
it's like a fringe benefit. Totally good for them, Good
(45:47):
for them that they cracked that one. Yeah, I feel
like they needed like a climatic moment before the iceberg. Totally. Yeah,
that's true. That's like the best part of the first
VHS tape is and she gets naked and then and
then it's pretty much downhill from there. Um. When I
(46:07):
was watching the movie in for the first time in
the drive in movie theater, we were in my mom's
car and the like windows were getting steamed up in
the car. So I eleven year old Caitlin, like made
this hilarious joke where like slapped the window and like
brought my hand down, and my Mom's like, Caitlyn, that's
(46:29):
very adorable. I like that. Wait it is you and
your mom and your sister who was sitting in the
back seat. I think it was probably my mom, like
my sister and I think I think we're in the front.
Mom took one for the team. I think my mom
would do that. My mom was like, no, I came here, shotgun,
I'll stay shotgun. Yeah. No, she's a she was a
nice mom. Mom. Did your mom listen to the podcast.
(46:52):
Yeah she does. My mom still does not understand. She
doesn't she does not physically know how to play. I
remember the conversation, yeah yeah. And then I was talking
to my dad about the other day and he's I
think his exact words were like, how do you do that?
It's like, it's fine, don't worry about it. So anyway,
(47:13):
I love the I just love the whole sex and
naked scenes in this. I feel like it's it's very
symbolic of the sex and it. I just want more
and more baby well, I mean pretty much directly after
they well roses deflowered. I imagine that Jack perhaps though
he was definitely I think some of those French presses
(47:34):
the other nude girls right right, she wasn't the first
nude girl. But the other thing that always makes me
laugh about Jack is when he goes to that meal
with the rich people and then he says like, yeah,
last night I slept underneath the bridge and now I'm
on this boat with you guys. And if he was
like even a little less hot, that would be a
(47:56):
horrifying thing to come out of a dable like, because
he's clean and very sexy and very charming, everyone's like, oh,
he's like yesterday. But if he was just like a
regular person, that would give me a lot of pause. Anyways,
he really gets away with social murder there. Yeah. Yeah,
(48:23):
we saw his logic. But I think everyone smelled bad
in that era, Like I don't think people were bathing
every single day, even though maybe even not the rich people.
I feel like the rich people wore a lot of
like scents. They were covering it up. Must clowns. Gross.
But yeah, everyone probably smelled, especially I like, would there
(48:44):
have even been running water on the Titanic in the Yeah?
It was an amazing ship, ship of green and it was.
It really was a few of the moments happened and
I'm like, yeah, go Rose, the ship is like mid sink.
(49:05):
Cal is like, well you're going to go off to
him and be his good Yeah, and she's like I'd
rather be his hor than your wife. She spits in
his face. I love it. And also Billy Zane's mug
when he gets hit in the face of spit. Great
job by Billy Zane. Wonderful acting. Yeah, I would describe
(49:27):
it as like, what the heck, why did you do that?
And that's all he had to do. That was the job.
There's another part where Rose is trying to rescue Jack
from being handcuffed to like a pipe in the in
the room, and she realizes someone is going to be
able to help her, so she's like, fine, I'll take
matters into my own hands. And she just gets that
(49:49):
axe and goes and does it, and I'm just like,
girl power. But before is it before? I think it's before?
Right before she gets the axe, she punches that guy
in the face. Oh that too, And then he's trying
to do you get her up to safety and she's like, no,
I'm trying to save a life. Save a life here
not No one is in the wrong per se. It's
(50:12):
just a high pressure six, right. I think in retrospect
he would forgive her. Also, he probably died. There's another
scene where she's like running to the elevator and she's
like take me down. He's like no, and he's like
she's like, I'm through being like take me down. God
damn it, And then he does it. Yeah, don't funk
(50:33):
with Ross. She'll yell at you. This collection of all
these little moments that I didn't like necessarily pay that
much attention to before. But like on this rewatch, I
was like, oh, yeah, badass. She somehow manages the ax
thing that that she probably shouldn't have worked out. No,
she definitely would have chopped his hands off or like
(50:55):
very severely at least. Yeah either way, Like it's you know,
she's doing stuff, Yeah, she is doing stuff. Yeah, go Rose,
Go Rose, Rose Jack the last Rose Jack Rose Jack,
like a poor family about to die and they got
cut back to them. Oh god, it's so sad, all
(51:17):
those like the old people spooning. Can we talk about
how potentially Jack and Rose were the reason that the
at least in this depiction of the story, they were
the reason the ship hit the iceberg because the watch
out guys were distracted by them making out on the deck.
(51:38):
There probably wouldn't have been enough time anyway. Probably not
like to think they like sealed their own fate. Yeah,
if she had just gone off and done what she
was told, they all those people, she was responsible for
twelve hundred people dying or something. The moral of the
(51:58):
stories here is, uh, don't love anybody and don't get
in a relationship or kiss them, because you'll just cause
a lot of mass destruction. This is really a dystopian
view of a beautiful love story. They only knew each
other for two days. Haven't even heard my theories on
(52:19):
Jack being a child pornographer because one of the pictures
that he shows Rose this is a pair of adult hands,
probably man hands, on a naked child's body. His thumbs
are like covering the little girl's nipples, and it's like
(52:42):
this weird child porn thing. He can't draw his own hands, Caitlin.
It's not his hands, but he's I'm saying he's creating,
uh an image that is child pornography because it's like
adult hands on a little girl. Look it up, it happens.
I don't want to look it up. And then I
(53:03):
don't want to look it up. Could it be a father?
And yeah, but why is the girl naked? She's like
very chilly naked, real little thing. She's yeah, like if
she's well, if she's really little, then maybe she's getting
a badge. If she's like, no, that's weird. It's like
weirdly sexual. I don't want to al right, I don't
(53:28):
necessarily withdraw my suggestion that Jack is a child pornographer,
but I don't want other theory. Caitlin, I want other
people to tweet at us like a bomb shelter drop it.
I know, I know, I'm not sorry though. These are
dark times, okay, Trump, So let's just try to worse
(53:51):
than everybody. Everyone's a child molester, no way, man. Jack
was he was. He's a probably a stinky hobo, but
it was nice. Yeah. I mean, like I said, Jack
is a pretty good character. He spends most of the
time just like bending over backwards for Rose and just
(54:13):
like loving her for everything that she is and empowering her, crazing,
praising all of her her great qualities. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
so good on Jack. He's an ally. He he's such
a feminist. R I P. Fabrizio always want to give
a shout out. He's a good guy, he seemed. I
(54:37):
don't know. He mostly just said Italian words and then
was crushed by like a steam thing. But good guy,
good guy. We think we were pretty sure maybe he
was a child pornographer and we just didn't know it
could yeah, true, anyone could be. This is the this
is the Darante test. Tune in next week after the Darante.
(55:01):
Is your favorite male character in a movie a secret
child pornographer? I love it? It's like my theory that
the baldest woman in the movie is in charge. Yeah, yeah,
we're gonna these tests are gonna be famous. Andy, Do
you have a test now? I feel like I need one.
You can think about it, just tweet at it, keep
(55:21):
calm and take a selfie. That'll be fine. Fine. Um,
And does anyone have any other thoughts about the movie
and or its portrayals in the Ladies? It does a
weirdly I mean, a better job than I remembered. I
wouldn't have thought that it did so well just thinking
about because it's like a love story, and usually love
(55:43):
stories don't do that well, but it does really well. Yeah,
I agree all those moments. I was like, yeah, it
does give Rose a lot of one. Yeah, because a
lot of romance stories is usually like a rom com
where like they start out hating each other and then
they have to be like, oh, this guy's a dick,
but he's cute, so I and he's near where I am,
(56:06):
so we're going to fall in love Like this one,
like he likes that she's tough, yeah, he like they
like each other from the start, and like she's the
one who like keeps trying to pull away, but she's like,
you know what, No, I'm gonna get like my Dick's
hard a little bit for him, so I'm gonna, well,
I'm gonna see where this goes. I know, sorry to
(56:27):
use such a mitten male normative term for that, but
there's no there's no is there a female equivalent. I
guess like she's wet for him? Yeah, get it? Okay.
Also ties into the theme of water and sinking ships. Sorry,
(56:48):
I tried to force it wasn't very good. It's okay,
thank you. I was like, I'm not going to throw
a tantrum. You know what, I've done enough. But in
this movie, the romance is to like the vehicle that
gets her to like it's like, like it said before,
it's sort of the catalyst for her character arc. So
you can bring out the best in each other for
(57:09):
the time that they're together. So that's nice. Um, a partner,
do you have any thoughts about the movie you want
to share that you haven't trying to think what we
haven't covered. I feel like we did a pretty thorough job.
That spectal cast baby guys were really thorough. Boy. Yeah
(57:34):
that now she's an ally. Yeah, she's with us. I mean,
I feel like she was kind of firmly associated with
that movie for a while because of the song. So
it does pass about it does really soon. Yeah, it's
it's kind of nice that it passes so soon, and
it passes more than once, because there's so many movies
(57:55):
that we do where it's to be one. Yeah, like
we we did Groundhog Day and that just gets by
on like an exchange Animatedal has with a waitress a
about sticky buns. So even that's to stretch, and but
this one passes over and over and over, like pretty
(58:17):
much anytime there's a scene with two women in it,
it's generally not about a man, or or there's other
topics to it. Might either start with a conversation about
a man or end it, but like throughout the conversation
they talk about something other than a man. Usually, Like
I said before, I do wish the Rose and Molly
had more scenes together and that they were they I
(58:39):
feel like they should have palled up and like let's
do some fan fiction. Yeah, just some hanging out and
then are you are you ready to rate? Yeah? Okay,
so yeah, we rate it on a scale of zero
to five. Nipples specifically, about how it treats the female characters.
(59:00):
So I would. I would. I think I would give
this four. Yeah, I think there's a pretty high rating
les and I would give it. The nimples I would
give it would be, oh, we didn't talk about him
the officer who commits suicide because he feels bad, so
too are his? Then two are Molly Brown's Sure those
(59:22):
are the nimples. I give it definitely. Um. I would
also give it four. I think one of the reasons
just subconsciously that I've I saw this movie, you know,
twenty years ago for the first time, and have kept
watching it over and over over is that I was like, yeah,
it has really this pretty strong female character, which is
(59:43):
like usually when you're revisiting a movie, realize how bad
it is to women's surprise. So I'd give it four. Um.
I would because the movie is just as much about
roses like growth as a woman as it is about
a ship sinking and the romance. So I give it
(01:00:05):
a four. Two of them. Two of the nipples belong
to Jack when he's trembling and very sweaty during their
sex scene, and the other two got to be hairless, right, Yeah,
he was very hairless, very smooth, smooth Jack And I
say the other two are the nipples that we see
(01:00:26):
on Rose but not in real life. The drawing that
he does of her her like illustrated nipples, sketch nits.
Would you like to write the movie. I don't understand
how the nipples were. We just well, we we assigned
a number and then we just describe who they might
belong to. That's you don't have to do that part.
(01:00:47):
We do it for fun, because you know, I don't
remember the officer who committed suicide. Was that. Oh there's
a part. So when the when the rescue boats are
starting to get full, they're crowding, and then one of
the officers, I think it's the first officer Murdoch takes
out again and shoots at the crowd and kills Ivory,
(01:01:09):
Tommy and someone else. And then I think he realizes
that he's in over he's in over his head. WHOA
another kills himself. Great puns and it's very sad, and
also I would argue in retrospect, very unprofessional. They could
they really could have used those people. Yeah he giofed, yeah,
(01:01:32):
but they could have used him for another hour or so.
Uh And that did really happen. That's a thing that happened. Really, Yeah,
who question that movie is real? Yeah, that would be
like a mean thing to do to someone who actually existed,
if he hadn't actually done that. Well, that's uh. Did
you want to give it a number of nipples? Oh? Yeah,
I will also give it for and I give to
(01:01:55):
the Fabrizio. Oh alright, I bet a pretty hairy being.
Don't put him in a box. Yeah, and and I'll
give you to Molly Brown. Very nice, awesome, Thanks you
so much for being here when people than you like
on Twitter. Oh yeah, my Twitter is just a par
(01:02:16):
napkin and my website is just a partner comedy dot com. Wonderful.
Thanks lady. Thanks for Happy Valentine's Day every time. Careful
You're your one true love might be a child pornographer.
Think about that, Caitlin. Okay, bye, I can fix kal.
(01:02:40):
Oh we forgot to do the check in for the
middle part of the movie. Hey guys, it's uh, we're
checking in. We're checking We stopped where the first VHS
would have stopped. I'm a little wine drunk. How are you?
I'm a little wine drunk, But mostly I'm just like
(01:03:04):
we identified several points in the movie where it's like, oh,
this is where you really start feeling it. Um. Yeah,
I'm a little fragile at this point. I again, I'm
a bit of a robot, so I'm not quite there yet.
I already cried twice. I cried when they kissed because
that's so beautiful. And then I cried when I thought
(01:03:26):
about Mr Andrews because he has such integrity. He does,
so does e j. Oh. Can I pitch my cop
my buddy cop? I do? Okay, this will cheer us all.
So because it was Captain E. J. Smith's last voyage
ever and he was going to retire the second he
got to New York, I want to make a Buddy
(01:03:47):
Cup movie of like it was his last week on
the force. But this captain is gonna get a little surprise.
And then the identic thinks I'm still in a bad mood.
I think if you remember the scene where like he's
in like the room with the steering wheel or whatever
(01:04:08):
it's and then the windows break in and all of
the water comes like rushing, and I feel like if
you just like lay flapstick comedy music over that, it
could just be like a really very like buster kind
of thing. Well, okay, so Jamie is an emotional wreck
I am doing Okay. The thing about this movie is
that I'm like a little ambivalent toward the first half.
(01:04:31):
Like I like it, I enjoy it progressively the second
half because I the second half this movie is just
like a terrific action movie with like such good practical effects.
I love it. First half though, is my emotional core,
because it's all over the place. There's a toxic relationship,
it moves too fast. There are nudes, their promises broken.
(01:04:56):
There's a mean brunette who's all about what he wants.
You mean, first have his dope. Billy Zane. Billy Zane.
I'm talking about Billy Zane. I feel like he started
like that. You identified a man character as his hair color,
the way that like a lot of people, you know
that blonde, and it's almost always referring to a woman. Yeah,
(01:05:17):
let's start doing that. Let's start reducing men to their
hair color. I'm very sensitive to male hair colors, so
maybe a more one, try not. How do you feel
about blonde adults? So yeah, but I would say Leo
is is sandy enough that Yeah, I still get very
wet for him. So there you have it. See as
The Bechdel Cast News
Hosts And Creators
Caitlin Durante
Jamie Loftus
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