Twilight with JT Taylor

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the beck dol Cast, the questions asked if movies
have women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends
and husbands, or do they have in individualism the patriarchy?
Zef in best start changing it with the beck Del Cast. Hello,
and welcome to the Bechdel Cast. My name is Caitlin,
Miss Jamie, and we're here to talk about movies and

(00:22):
how women are portrayed in those movies. Women rule, women rule,
not according to movies, So no women suck. And that's
especially true of the movie we're talking about today. We
got a hum ding or today. Man, I'm sorry if
this episode ends up being like two and a half
hours long, because I have many pages of notes. I've

(00:43):
got a lot. Yeah, there's a lot to say. I
watched this movie once drunk, once sober, and tried to
figure out what I was saying in the drunk notes.
We'll see if I can piece it apart. I watched
probably the first fifteen minutes of it on Netflix and
then I was like, Oh, this movie blows. And then
I happened to have the Riff Tracks version of it,

(01:05):
so I watched the rest of that and it was
a much more enjoyable way to watch it. Yes, but hey,
let's jump in and introduce our guests. Let's do it.
He is an educator, but his most impressive credit is
that he is the best friend of a one Caitlin Durante.
It's j T. Taylor. Guys, thanks for having me. Thanks

(01:29):
for being here, my friend. Yeah. Thanks, that was a
good introduction. I'm I teach the youth of America about
commas and quotation marks and commas inside of quotation marks.
What would you say is the most important piece of punctuation? Puberty? Okay, amazing? Yeah, yeah,
it's usually where we start at the school year in
English class, puberty, and by the end they're shaving. It's great,

(01:53):
well in class and everything full service. That's amazing. In Massachusetts,
I miss shaving at school. You're you're in junior high
and you're like, let's sneak into the bathroom and shave
each other. My friends just shaven, shave it away. Yeah. Well,
this podcast is inspired by the Bechtel Tests. Right, do

(02:16):
you know what that is? Maybe? Maybe not. If you don't,
we're here to tell you that it's a test you
that you apply to movies or whatever, anything that has
a story. The test requires that the story has two
female characters. They have to talk to each other, they
have to have names, and their conversation can't be about
a man. I would honestly be fascinated if this is

(02:37):
the first episode someone would choose to listen to, because
it speaks more to their movie taste than anything aft, like, oh,
this is going to be my jumping off point for feminism. Hey, Jes,
tell us about your your history. Well we're talking about Twilight,
do you know? Oh no, you've misprepared. Were already give

(03:00):
it five film. So I'm an educator that means I
teach kids. And during my first interview, I knew this
is the job, This is my dream job because the
summer reading included Twilight. Real, what time do I start? Who?
In their right mind? For what age? The Massachusetts? There there?
It was a high school book for the high school

(03:20):
reading list. It's not there anymore, right, So what what
year would this have been? Tight? So that was when
I was in high school. That's crazy. Yeah, do you
want to transfer? Yeah? I want to go back in time.
My mom loved these books and she bought the box
set and was like, you've got to read them. She'd
later do the same thing with fifty shades, but I passed.

(03:41):
It was like your commings on these books. This is
chriss Well. I first encountered Twilight by going to visit
my friend J T. Hi. Yeah, that's my fault, that's
my It was before I lived in Boston, and I
think I went to visit you and you were like, hey,
got to watch this movie Twilight. We watched it and

(04:03):
it was bad, and you really at the time like
I loved it. Those movies. I spoke. We got into
fights about these movies because you were wrong and I
was right, no, because I have been right all along
that they've always been terrible, and now you're coming consistently
believed that there. I've consistently been a detractor, but I
was on board for you know, it's like this sort

(04:24):
of like twist my arm. I guess I'll go because
all my friends are going, but I think it's stupid.
But I would always go. I mean same like I've seen.
I think I saw the last three movies in the
theater really midnight. I saw the first one in theaters God,
and then I read the first book and a half
and it was like, holy sh it. The pros in

(04:45):
these books garbage, and I couldn't keep going. Also, I've
been a long time team Jacob. Oh, I agree, I agree,
I'm okay. Team Jacob is the right team. Thank you
so much. I agree. Also worth mentioning that our producer

(05:07):
Aristotle used to be a big Twilight head. Really wait,
what team were you on? Okay, it's good that we
have a split room. This is going to be good
for discourse. I don't understand. Well, okay, we'll get to Edward.
I just to Moody, give me, give me Jacob. He's

(05:27):
got He's a red blooded American horny wolf. I'm into it.
They have good banter. They have an actual friendship. Yes,
it doesn't start with like I'm gonna just look at
you for a long time, although that is. That's how
my high school boyfriend, uh he ensnared you, just by

(05:48):
staring at you for a while. Yeah, there was one
time where someone was like, oh, Steven stared at you
for the whole math test. All right, I'll date him.
He was really good at math, so I finished shortly
and then he was just like it worked. We dive
for four years. Romantic Nope, nope, listen, it was great
at the time. Okay, I was, I was young. I

(06:09):
was I was a baby. Gay Mowanna hadn't come out yet,
so I didn't really know who I was. It just
it spoke to me, and uh, I don't regret that
books are movies first. For you the movie it was
the trailer really for New Moon, when the parent government
is introduced, right, correct, I was books first. Okay, I

(06:29):
was still, you know, really knee deep into Harry Potter
at the time. And give me a breath over Harry Potter,
thank you alright, already came out. I'm irrevocably over Harry Potter,
who didn't learn the word or have a complay from this.
We just looked up the definition this morning, ten minutes

(06:50):
before you got here. I remember reading this these books.
I think it's the second book. But there's like a
part where Edward disappears and then Bella just does nothing
for like three months. Yeah, that's towards the beginning of News.
And there's a couple there's a couple just like blank pages,
and I remember seeing that and being like, oh, you

(07:11):
can just do nothing for three months. This is such
an interesting idea. It's society. I was I was like
straight up turned on by the idea of doing nothing
for three months, and so I was like, well, thank
you Stephanie Meyer for just, you know, making this an
option for young women doing nothing for three months because
they're they're like, maybe a friend should I do the

(07:32):
recap Alright, So Twilight centers around a young Bella Swan.
Don't forget, there's no way to convey that a character
is attractive unless you name her Bella, which means beauty,
and then also give her the last name of a
sexy bird, as we saw in the Pirates of the
Caribbean episode with Elizabeth. I think that there are actually

(07:53):
very dirty and mean. Have you ever met a swan?
I don't know why I'm asking that as someone who
actually I've met several swans and can confirm that they
are the sexiest of all the birds. Swans have only
been very mean to me. There's this place in Bracton
called dw Fields Park and you would go, I mean
maybe because they were city swans. It was very rude.

(08:15):
You'd bring little scraps and they were loud, they were territorial.
They would ship everywhere. Beautiful swan. It's it's a myth okay, well,
not according to black swan, not according to the swan Princess.
There's a lot of misconceptions about swans that I would
like to spend. There is a lot too much. What

(08:35):
about those other birds? How about pigeons? They have the
worst reputation, But are they the worst birds? We don't
know because we haven't seen enough theories about pigeons. They're
about as dirty as swans. All birds are dirty and
kind of scary. I think you're not wrong. Sorry, sorry
to trigger all you bird lovers out there. I expect
them strongly. So we've got bella swan. She moved to Forks, Washington,

(08:59):
where there's never son. You know. She's in a new
high school and she's trying to make new friends, but
she's so clumsy and awkward that it's hard. Except everyone
immediately loves her, including a person named Edward Cullen. He's mysterious,
he's pale. He emotionally abuses her from minute one, but
he's intriguing because it turns out, wow, he's a vampire.

(09:22):
So they start to fall in love. She's like, I'm
irrevocably in love with you. At one point they're playing baseball.
The baseball scene is bananas. I love it. Well, this scene,
it shouldn't be significant, but it is because this group
of bad vampires show up who have been killing the
townspeople and eating the sniffy ones. I like, I like

(09:45):
the one named James who's always sniff in the air. Yeah. Um.
And they show up because Bella starts hanging out with
the Cullen family, which is this family of vampires that
have just all been turned by Carlyle are all foster children,
but they're also all fucking each other. Interesting precedent that, yes,

(10:05):
So they're all playing baseball together and the bad vampire
show up because the thing with the Cullens is that
they don't eat people, even though they want to. They're vegetarians,
so they only eat animals. Makes sense. So the bad
vampires who do eat people come by. This guy James,
this lady Victoria, and let's see the one name Laurent,
and they're like, I smell a human, I'm gonna eat her.

(10:28):
And James, the lead bad vampire, Sniffy Sniffy Sniffy Sniffy Magoo,
decides that he's gonna turn Bella into a project and
he's gonna chase her. That's exactly great, Like he's gonna
fix her fix here by drinking all of her blood.

(10:49):
And so everyone freaks out and they're like, we gotta
get away from here. So they drive to Phoenix and
Bella things. Is this about Fury Road? Can we do
figur Road? Oh my god, it's been done. I would
rather do this than Fury Road. Honestly, I like this movie.
Oh my god, No that I'm having a stroke. Jamie hates.

(11:11):
I hate mad Mag's Fury Road. Give me any Twilight
movie over it. I have to go like be here
in Robert Buttons and handsome Tom hardy handsomer. I'm already boring. No,
his character is born because the handsome Okay, yes, team Jacob,
but kiss me on the lept. I love that he

(11:33):
wears a wig. There's like a lot of especially later
in this series, a lot of Jacob objectification, speculation on
his abs. He's wearing wigs. He's like Nicole Kidman, like
he's like, look at my body, look at my wig.
It's great. That wig was huge on Gate Twitter. Really yeah, wait,
Nicole Kidman's wig or Jacob Black's Okay, Okay, I was

(11:54):
going to say because I was really into I feel
like I've brought up this exact wig before, the one
that she wears is in in Big Little Eyes, Nicole
Kivin's wigg and Biggle Little Wise is something I think
about at least once a week. So they're in Phoenix
now and James is like, I'm when I eat you, fella,
and She's like, Okay, I'm gonna die in the place

(12:16):
of someone I love. She's okay with it, and she's
fine with it. It's the opening line from the movie,
right and and just so, so there's no mistake made.
You see a deer being consumed, as if to say, like,
don't worry, we have no problem selling out our protagonists
in the place of someone hot. Yeah. Yeah, this is

(12:39):
a movie that starts with a female deer being hunted
by a male hunter. And that's a perfect metaphor for
how I grew up in Pennsylvania. Did you get Hunting
season days off? We did, but I didn't go. I
stayed home and played video games like a normal person.
I didn't know that was a thing. Yeah, I didn't
have to go to school on the first day of
Like there just was no school in the first day
of Buck season and does season? Who does sides? But

(13:00):
the first day of Buck season, and it's different. The
Bock season and Do season are two different seasons. Yes,
it's the Vaultori the designs. Actually this is new information
to me. That's crazy. Yeah, grow up in rural Pennsylvania
and then you won't have to go to school when
there's hunting to be done. Okay. But so she's like,
I'm gonna die for Edward because I revocably love him,

(13:23):
And then of course he has to show up and
they fight James because James has bitten Bella. All the
vampire venom is coursing through her veins, and she's like
and it's like so she's like lying there on the
floor nearly dying. And then they kill James the vampire
by Alice ripping his head off. And then Edward, who

(13:44):
has expressed this entire time that he wants to suck
Bella's blood more than any humans blood. He has to
suck the venom out of her blood stream, and he's like,
oh god, am I going to be able to stop
in time? Good raw dog in it? Well I knew
that's basically what the metaphor is. He's like, I don't
know if I'm gonna be able to not come exactly. Yeah,

(14:08):
he's raw dogging it hot more raw dogging in movies,
Edwards the raw dog So the betrayal of women in Twilight,
you went your turn? Do you only speak when you're
spoken to? Well, the first time Bella had sex, she
raw dogs are right? And then she gets pregnant with
a little demon. They should maybe consider protection. But he's

(14:31):
so strong that parent come is impervious. Was that the thing?
He's like, Oh my, I have like badtery acid come
and there's no use in stopping me. And then he's like,
oh guy, this is so sick all other sniffys. Can
we just okay, can we skip forward to the end
of the fourth book really quick before we finished summarizing

(14:51):
the first movie, please, of how all this stuff happens.
There's a love triangle forever and then it turns out
that Jacob the were wolf was actually lusting after Bella's
unborn egg baby. Yeah, this is it. That is so
fucking gross. It is horrifying because we see them form

(15:13):
a friendship here that I'm like, this seems like puppy love,
seems like there's something there, but he's actually like horny
for her egg puppy, He's horny for her egg what
is it, renesme or whatever fucking stupid ass name. Grow up.
I remember having to stop reading the book and going
back and being like, surely this is not the implication,

(15:36):
because the whole thing is that someone imprints on the werewolves.
I think she's still a very young child that he
sees her for the first time. To be fair, Edward
is ninety years older than Bella, so a colonial England,
Like this is so fucking d Yeah, he like sees
this and then he's like, oh, exactly, that's exactly what happens.

(15:58):
And it is disgusting and one of many reasons I
fucking hate this series. That to me is the worst
part of the whole series. I have a high tolerance
for garbage and trash. But the dog man seeing a
baby and saying I'm going to that baby, and then
in the book being like, and here's the resolution thing

(16:20):
you've been waiting for years is the dog wants to
fund a baby. Like no that that you're like, oh, closure, like, no,
call the police, right. Just back checking a bit to
the end of the first one, the Good Vampires the Collins,
they show up, they destroy James. Meanwhile Edward is sucking

(16:42):
all of the blood out of Bella. Cut to the
end of the movie whereby she's done nothing to resolve anything,
and they go to prom. The end they do that.
Look though, I will because I was in high school
when this movie came out. I remember specifically, So this
came out like meat two thousand eight, and then the
prom season after two thousand nine, everyone was doing the

(17:05):
bell of Swan thing with a prom dress and converses.
That was like a thing for for the next couple
of years. You know, I'm in support of like wearing practical,
comfortable shoes in a formal occasion. That's fine, But what's
gross is being inspired by Twilight. But that totally was
what Yeah. Yeah, everyone was like, I'm doing the Bella Swan,

(17:26):
I'm wearing a kid dress. I'm awkward, I can't dance. Also,
I'm awkward, I can't She also wearing a cast because
of Vampire had broken her leg. Yeah, which might have
informed the shoe decision, but it went over all the
high school girls were like, oh, this seems easier, which
is true. Well, where do we jump in with this
hard Tovie, we can start it. Charlie's tom Selleck mustache. Yeah,

(17:51):
let's go there. Let's go there first. Are we into it?
I'm into it. I'm into it, honestly, Hot Dad, I'm
team Charlie. Yeah, hot Dad. He's doing his best and
he's hot. Okay. One of the first things that happens,
which I was grossed out by, is Bella arriving at
the new school. All the boys are like, who's the

(18:11):
new girl. She's so pretty and oh my god. And
then one of the characters, Tyler, swoops in for a
kiss just like surprise and then runs away. But this
is now, like, I don't know, the tense movie that
we've talked about on this podcast where a man just
like surprise kiss is a woman, which don't forget there's

(18:31):
all such thing as a surprise kiss, right, it's all
it's assault, And I just don't know why this always happens.
The first thing that bothered me about the movie is
that they used the word chill ax and you're like, oh, yeah,
it's two that in eight was like chill ax Bella.
I was like, oh no, feature yeah, I'm just lamping over.
She has a moderate amount of anxiety about being interviewed

(18:52):
as the new kid for the school newspaper, which would
never happen, and he immediately back pedals and he's like, relaxed, woman,
chill acts, I'm just trying to lamp over here. Do
you remember. People will be like, I'm just lamping. I
have no idea what that means. People would say that
in my high school. They'd be like, oh, funk, I'm
trying to think of all this because this was my
back this yeah, this was the best, the best years

(19:13):
of my life. Just kidding. I was wearing a back
brace for these years. But people would be like, oh,
we're lamping on the east side. For some reason, there
was a time where you could say lamp and I
just meant to hang out. Yeah, like Chilla hack sing
if you will, but like lamping. Yeah. Bella's first steps
into Forks really really interesting. A lot of people talk
to her about the weather. Tyler throws a twizzler at

(19:34):
her and then his van. He does throw a van
at her, and then Edward throws it back. He's like, no, certain,
not on my watch. I protect her. She's gonna save her.
She's not. I watched her when she sleeps just like, ah,
how romantic. Okay, yeah, so I made a list of

(19:55):
all the ways in which he is extremely abusive. There's
a scene he straight up gaslights her whenever he's he
saves her from the van crashing into her because he
has to like speed across the parking lot to get
to her in time, and because he's a vampire he
can do that. He's lightning fast. In the hospital, She's like,
how did you get over to me? How did you

(20:16):
do that? And like, also, how do you stop a
van with your arm? And he's a reasonable questions. He's like,
I was already right beside you, and she's like, no,
you were across the park. She keep saying, I know
what I saw. I know that was like scary to watch.
Knowing what gaslighting is now you're just like, oh my god.

(20:37):
And it being presented as like a funny little plot
point of like it's not time for her to know.
But I'm like, no, this is like a textbook example
of something that happens in abusive You're just like, why
you hit your head? You're confused? Yeah, that's like sample
text question her reality and make you think she's crazy.

(20:58):
And then she here's the thing. She does stand up
for herself. In this movie, a lot things happen to
her and she's like she tries, but it's always undermined
by the fact that she then just keeps staying with
this very abusive person. Like there's a scene where those
like scary rape dudes in Port Angels, Washington come after

(21:20):
her Port of Angels. They're like being all creepy, and
she's like, get off, don't touch me. She like even
kicks one of them. Like she does fight for herself.
She stands up for herself, but it never laughs long,
or she always succumbs to whatever abuses being tossed her way,
or very often just being removed from one abusive situation

(21:41):
and placed into a different one where like obviously the
guy is harassing her in port Angelist, that is bad news.
I think if we're playing out that situation realistically, she
would not have been able to rescue herself. We don't
know that she has any like physical training that would
allow her to fight off multiple grown men. I mean,
if there's like a bit of ice she slips on it, Yeah,

(22:02):
she can't. She has no hand eye coordination. She'sward, she's awkward,
but she knows what about No, She's like, I hate that,
but he has a crush on me. I'm cute, I
bought hair colored to box and I'm awkward. Okay, So
this is a hard thing to discuss because many women
find themselves in abusive relationships and we must not victim

(22:26):
blame them at all, because we can just be like, well,
why didn't you get out or why didn't you fight back,
or why didn't you stand up for herself? Like that's
obviously not how you approach, of course, not that. What
I what I think is the dangerous precedent set is
that we can't We're not gonna blame Bella because she
is sixteen years old. Who male or female at sixteen

(22:47):
years old is like emotionally equipped to deal with gaslighting vampires,
especially when he's ninety years older than her. And that's
the gross thing where he is somehow attractive. He's like
a hundred year ol man and that's like, you know,
takes you into a whole weird fiction world of like
what you're gonna do a corpse? But like we don't know,

(23:07):
we don't know. But speaking to like the abusive relationship angle,
I think that the real problem with it is that
obviously the target of these movies are girls that age
and the way their relationship, Like I think the characters
is one thing, because it's so fucking fictional that, you know,
obviously we can't really make value judgments on those characters.

(23:29):
But because sixteen year old girls are the intended audience,
and the relationship between Belle and Edward is positioned is
an ideal and like taking abuse and standing up for
yourself but later saying I was wrong to do that
is positioned as true love and an ideal. Like, I
think that that's the real core of the issue, is

(23:52):
that they're just justifying young women accepting abuse from a man.
Fun The characters they don't you know, none of the
characters make any sense. These characters are they're they're not real, right,
There aren't vampires. I mean, I've been too Forks. I've looked.
But someone whether it's the author the screenwriter, decided to
portray American culture in Forks, Washington as this is the norm,

(24:15):
this is what young women should aspire to be, aspire
to do right and then bella kind of I mean
not to bring up Harry Potter because I'll pass out,
um out of rage, to be clear, But Bella like
kind of the same as Harry Potter. You know, she's
Bella's a central character and she has the least personality

(24:35):
out of everybody, which is kind of done intentionally so
that the intended audience plugs themselves into that character. So
it's like not like teenage boys are watching this, or
you know, at least not to the same degree, but like,
teenage boys are watching this and they're like, I totally
relate with Edward Colin, but teenage girls almost universally if
shoe choices at my junior promor to be believed related

(24:58):
with Bella and I had to model themselves after her. Yeah,
you make a very good point about how the story
positions this as true love and your relationship is like this,
then oh how romantic? What a like a romance for
the ages, which I guess people fell for that because
this is a worldwide phenomenon, But I mean that moms

(25:19):
fell for that, which is even more in my mom
but like, but moms, we're into this series and that
it's just like whoo, whoof this goes back? Well, this
came out or this was like kind of the height
of its popularity right after college for me, I think,
and I had people my age, like in their early twenties,

(25:40):
and then I remember talking to my friend and her
older sister who was like late twenties. They were just
all enamored with this story. And I never understood it
because I have exquisite taste and self respect. Back to
the point of her being continually abused throughout this story
by Edward and standing up for herself. But then also no, yeah,

(26:06):
she completely acknowledges her the quota. So the lion fell
in love with the lamb. What a stupid lamb, sick
masochistic lion, right, and then they're like, let's kiss, yeah,
and there's a romantic song, right, the music swells. Well,
this goes goes back a little bit. But Bella's relationship
with her mom is very weird, where I don't remember

(26:28):
if she's like if it's expressed that she's like a
little bit frustrated or resentful of her mom. In the
book and the movie, her mom is like, yeah, I'm married, uh,
minor league baseball player, and I'm just gonna go watch
a fun ton of minor league baseball baseball team. But
but we see her call her mom multiple times, and

(26:49):
she's like, I missed you, mom, I love you Mom.
I was just like, are you not? But then the
mom follows up with what about the boys. Are the
boys cute at your new school? Hey? Many new boys? Yeah? Yeah,
And then she says I don't know, I'm not great,
and then she's like, Okay, I gotta watch some baseball.
Feeling she's always it like a batting cage on a
pay phone or like what are you doing? Like why

(27:10):
is she not? Why is Bella not furious at her
mom of like, thanks for dumping me in Washington with
my tom Sel like dad who like rules. But also
if my mom just abandoned me in the middle of
high school because she was fucking a minor league baseball player,
I would be furious. Yeah. Well, and one of the

(27:30):
many conversations that Edward overhears or you know, tries to
very voyeuristically spy on, He's like, what's in Jacksonville? What's
what's your story? Tell me everything about it? I can't
figure you out. I just can't read you. Tell me everything,
and she's like, well, my mom stayed home with me,
but I could tell it made her unhappy, Like in
what world? But it doesn't. I'd rather be watching minor

(27:52):
league baseball than stay home with you, feel like daughter.
The typical teenager would use that to be like hard
or the ship out of it right, be like I
did this for my mom, and I deserve some attention
because look at what I'm doing with the sacrifice. And
that's not the story. No, it's like barely a plot point.
And it's like her mom pops up. I don't even know,

(28:13):
because it's not even like her mom ever provides new
information or Bella, and Bella doesn't really tell her anything.
It's just like two actors getting their SAG card. They're
in a batting cage somewhere in Arizona, and and and
then one time the scene is interrupted by the fact
that Edward has been in her room for hours. Right,

(28:34):
so he doesn't have to know how to read her
mind if he's just watching her and listening to all
the words she says at all times. Okay, so that's
one of many very problematic things, is that she's the
only person who's thoughts he cannot read, because I guess
as a vampire you also have special powers to funk
that stupid thing. But he can simple yeah, but for

(28:59):
whatever reason, we find out later that Bella also has superpowers.
Everyone has special power. She just needs to become a
vampire to figure it out. Accepted a voice inside you,
so he can't read her thoughts, and I think this
is part of what draws him to her, because he's like,

(29:21):
I have to figure you out. You're my new project.
Everyone wants to make Bella a project. Well, it's it's
fair to say that the new girl in school in
a small town, she's new, she's different. I can't read
her thoughts. That is interesting, right, But it's it's the
crux of his interest in her that and he becomes
so grossly obsessed with it too, Like he goes way
too far with it. In fact, there's a scene where

(29:43):
he we're lamping. There's a scene where they go into
the woods and she's figured out that he's a vampire.
He confirms it. They go up this mountain and at
one point he like pins her against a rock wall,
puts both of his arms up, so she's basically trapped,
and he's like, I have to know what you're thinking.

(30:04):
Tell me what you're thinking all the time. And it's
so weird way to try to control someone like he
just he can't read her thoughts, so he's like, I
need to know what you're thinking. I must control you. Right,
But if we put that in the context of a
teenage girl who's never had a relationship before, it's like, oh,
here's a boy who really cares what I think. Again,

(30:28):
it's like this very dangerous precedent to set where teenage
boys are fucking morons obviously and don't understand how to
function around anyone. Yeah, right, the expert. I'm an educator.
I educate this fuck dumb. But but it's like, you know,

(30:50):
that's a very appealing I know when I was sixteen,
I was like, Oh, a boy who really wants to
know my innermost thoughts. Wow, I'll let him pin me
to a rock. And it's like, you know, ten years later,
obviously you're like, don't touch me and stay away from me.
But it's so fucking insidious and a bummer. Some right

(31:10):
after or right before he admits he's like, I've killed
people's right after it doesn't matter to me, and of you,
I'm like, Okay, that's not you. That scene is so crazy,
like that whole sequence and then he and then it's
in the big reveal. Wait, which one that scene where
after they've admitted everything, they've talked about what it means

(31:32):
to be a vampire, he takes her through the cloud
break we finally see the true Edward. Yeah, oh yeah,
where he That is such a weird real because if
you don't know that that is the exact reveal it's
coming in the books, it's like, what is he doing?
And he walks and it isn't like a dazzling like shing,

(31:53):
which is how I pictured there was a sound effect
though there wasn't when the sun hits my skin. I
was expecting listen not to criticize this amazing movie. I
wasting a bigger reveal that he was sparkly. If I
had not known and had been waiting with bated breath
for that to happen, I would be like what I said, Oh,

(32:16):
he's got a little body glitter. He goes to players
and he puts on his body glitters. You remember body glitter?
That was fun? Are you boss? You ever buy body glitter? Yeah?
I thought this tube of Victoria's secret body glitter that
I never wore. I don't know why. I was like,
I'm not a sparkly person, like, that's not something I
would ever put on my body. Why did I buy this?
And then I ended up throwing it away? We lived

(32:37):
together in college and I actually saw it and used
it once. It's like, oh my god, I'm glad someone
used us. The body glitter and he usually smells good
to five stars reviewing posthumously, irrevocably. That's my favorite adverb.

(32:57):
So we're not we're not blaming Bella. At the center
of the story, like, like Edwards medium baggage is he
hasn't figured out what it means to be a vampire, right.
He he knows what like popular culture tells him about
being this mean, evil vampire, but he's not like the others.
He's not like the other and he just he uses
Bella to figure it out. He's like figuring out his
morality and he's using this young seventeen year old to

(33:19):
do it. He's ruining her right. The other thing one
just well, fuck, I have a list of eight thousand
things I want to say, but one of them is
that it's so fucking creepy and weird to me and
should be to everybody that he is. So we learned
that he's turned into a vampire in nineteen eighteen hot,
which means he was probably born in nineteen hundred. He's
a trench warfare vampire, and he has gone through high

(33:43):
school presumably dozens of times. But he well, yeah, because
we see that all the I actually always remember. I'm like,
that's a actually a really cool art piece suit in
your house, And then I saw it this time, I'm like,
you know what, I stand by it. I like all
the caps. I like that kind of like I would
put it in my very fancy all glass home. Right,

(34:03):
don't throw any rocks around that house, the vampire house. Yeah, So, okay,
we don't know how vampires and they're like mental and
emotional maturity happens. Maybe when they turn into a vampire
it stops, or maybe as they age they developmentally age
like humans, so that he's a nine year old man inside,
but he's he's stays in like a seventeen year old body.

(34:25):
Either way, it's weird that he's alive for ninety years
and you would think has the emotional maturity of a
ninety year old and then it's still attracted to a
teenage girl. You're raising your hand, yes, Jamie, what would
you like to draw a parallel. Okay, have you seen
or read Tuch ever Lasting? No, that is the immortal

(34:45):
good text to text connection and thank you so much.
An educator's approval means the world. Um No, but the
Tych ever Lasting is the closest and non too inside
because I like Tuch ever Lasting much better, But the
Tych over Lasting book is way more fucked up because
it's like in a hundred year old hot seventeen year
old and he's like lusting after a ten year old,

(35:07):
kind of like Jacob Renesme style, if you will. But
in the movie they aged up so that it's someone
who was on the Disney Channel lusting after Rory Gilmore
a little bit older. But it's interesting because the way
that that story plays out as a sort of a
similar like it's a family who's drank from the Fountain
of Youth, and the whole time they discourage the object

(35:30):
of his affection, who is ninety years too young for
him but looks age appropriate. They discourage her from drinking
from the Fountain of youth and she doesn't, and then
at the end of this story we see a still
young hot Jesse something I forget his last name, drives
up on his motorcycle and then he sees, you know,

(35:51):
the grave of Rory Gilmore. So in that story, it's
you know, it's more powerful because because she goes off
and she lives her life life and she does not
succumb to intense gas lighting from the object for refection.
And it's also like said that, you know, it's like
living forever may not be a great thing after all

(36:13):
and all that stuff. So anyways, that's the closest parallel
to this story that I can find. And there's not
any gas lighting in that because they're always like, don't
do it, and then she doesn't. So maybe it's just
a more boring story. Yeah. I don't think Edwards that strong, right,
he would never be able to control himself. He's a
raw dog control himself his own personal brand of Heroin.

(36:35):
Just for all my Tug ever Lasting heads out there,
it's Jonathan Jackson who played the Hot guy and Tuck
ever Lasting. They also go to the top of a
mountain to discuss eternal life in that movie. If you're
living forever and you're an innocent teenage on janu you're

(36:56):
gonna have to go to the top of a natural
formation to hash it out. That's a new movie rule.
Oh man, too bad. We already have the loftist test.
The lattictist hold strong, baldest woman in charge doesn't apply
to this movie. I don't think no. I'd say the Well,
the baldest woman in this movie is Alice, and she's
the I would say she's the best female character because

(37:17):
she kills someone. Yeah, she rips it that dude's head off.
I loved that kind. Yeah, she's a real hot topic
assistant manager. Hey, really quick? Are we to believe that
Bella was also wearing sleeves and jeans in Phoenix the
whole time? Because we see her at the beginning like
I live in Phoenix, Arizona. It's hot. And then we

(37:39):
see her in like two layers of sleeves and jeans
because she's awkward, right, she can't show her shoulders, she's
too awkward. She would she'd melt. But I'm just like,
how did you live in Phoenix for your whole life
with your chode of a mother. I don't understand your Well,
that's why she gets kicked out. Remember that hilarious joke
that everyone like cracks the over. Yeah, the scene where

(38:03):
the fucking Mike Chode, who's like, oh my good Isabella right,
and she's like just Bella. That's the closest to a
real high school student that we see. I think, so yeah,
Like that's like he's a Chode in a way that
it's like, oh, I would know a choked like that.
Anna Kendrick plays a high school or in this movie,
well those she's like or someone says in that scene,

(38:25):
you're from Arizona, are't she supposed to be like super tan?
And then Bella I'm just like, I guess that's why
they kicked me out, and they both ha ha ha ha.
We have d cups, but we're not cool, Like grow up.
If you have d cups in high school, you're cool
dealing it. Let's talk about all these scenes that happened
in the science room where when Bella first walks in.

(38:50):
By the way, the science teacher's name is Mr Molina.
I know, but it would have been a perfect opportunity. Well,
you continue to talk about science, I'll figure out what
offered Molina was I figure out what he was doing instead.
I'm sure the part was offered to him because that
could have been homage. Here's what he might have been doing.
He might have been filming The Ten Commandments playing Ramsey

(39:13):
is the Pharaoh. Obviously, he might have been providing the
voice of Professor Jeffries and chill out Scooby doo wait
chill acts, though not that what they meant. He might
have been in pre production to be the narrator in
Angels and Demons in two thousand and nine. He was
probably filming The Pink Panther too. Probably he's busy all

(39:37):
the time, all right. So she walks into the science room,
there's a fan blowing, a gust of her scent travels
to edwards nostrils. He borderline pukes, and then she sits
down beside him, and he has a hissy fit the
whole time, and then as soon as the bell rings
he storms out. And Okay, to be fair, she's like

(39:59):
I was to confront him, to figure out what his
problem was, Like, she wanted to know what the funk
his problem was. I'm not that brave. She doesn't get
a chance, Well, she kind of doesn't get a chance
to do it. Yeah, she does, because the next time
they're in the science room together, they're looking at the
onion slides on the microscope, which is a good Shrek reference.

(40:21):
Onions have layers. We know it, we love it. Where's
the where's the Shrek episode? Right? Where is it? It's coming.
But that's a fun scene because she looks into the
microscope and she's like, it's pro phase, and Edwards like, actually,
can I look at it just a double check your
work because I don't believe you more gas lining, and
then he looks into it and then he's like, it's

(40:43):
pro phase. Man's plaining it's unfair because he's been seventeen
for ninety years, so he's done this experiment for probably
fifty times. Show off somehow. Yeah, It's like, yeah, I've
I've got this, I've got this. She so he Man's
plains to her, but then to her credit, she says, yeah,
like I said, the thing is like Bella. God. I

(41:04):
feel Bella has the agency of an above average teenage girl,
but she's shot down by the narrative repeatedly until she
is just trapped. Like when I was sixteen, there's no
way I would challenge anything on anyone any time because
I was wearing a back brace and I was afraid
of everyone. Like can you imagine confronting a cute boy

(41:24):
at sixteen, Like that takes fucking guts, especially if you're
new somewhere, Like I feel like she's displaying above average,
Like I'm going to figure this out. And then Stephanie Meyer,
fucking evil puppet master, is like, how can we destroy
this young girl's agency. She's like, what happened in the
parking lot? I know what I saw? And then Edwards like,

(41:46):
no one will believe you, literally, no one will believe you.
But it's romantic. But it's romantic, it's romantic gas lighting. Hey,
wait a minute, though, Bella, so she knows all about
prophase and Anna Face and all that stuff. I would
call her a woman stem. She is a woman who
has heard of STEM. Yeah, she's a better folly a woman.

(42:08):
Yet she is a child, and that's part of the problem. True.
And then oh, but in that scene, in that prophase
and a Phase scene, we see Edward effectively defeat Bellot too,
because at the end of that scene she stops checking
his work, Like the last beat of that He's like,
do you want to check? She's like I'm good, No,
and then she's like I trust to. I was like,

(42:30):
he's a million he knows the difference between prophase and
I mean, which is better than I can say? Chemistry
times there's there's part of than me. And now I'm insecure.
I made a list of different times that Edward nags
or gaslights her, and the time codes because it happens

(42:51):
so frequently. Twenty minutes and he saves her from the
car crash. Twenty four minutes, He gaslights her, saying, oh's
right next to you. No one's gonna believe what you say.
Can't you just thank me and get over it? Fuck off?
Thirty minutes. If you were smart, you'd stay away from me.
What if I'm not the hero? What if I'm the
bad guy? Fifty minutes, He says Bella, what do we eat?

(43:14):
A k you? She says, you won't hurt me. At
this point, she's fully gaslighted, sher agency is dead for
the remainder of the series. Well, she's irrevocably in love
with minutes and I've never wanted a humans blood so
much in my life. Bella says, I trust you. Edwards says,
don't get there. What are you doing? Oh? I still

(43:39):
don't know if I can control myself. Bella says, I
know you can she's kind of gaslighting him, but she's sixteen.
There's God. It's the same disturbing interaction over and over
seventy minutes and Bella, I'm not scared of you, Edward.
You shouldn't have said that, and then he kidnapped her
with the spider monkey, with this sin and then God,

(44:02):
and then seventy five minutes and Bella has a scene
that doesn't pass the actual test in a very infuriating
way with her mom who is waiting to fuck her
chowed husband. After he gets out of the batting changes
and then he comes out, you know, he comes out
of the shadows and she's like, oh, you were here,
and he's like, yeah, I've been watching the Sleep for months.

(44:22):
And that's when I stopped counting the times he was
gaslighting her because it happens so much and this movie
is very long. Well, that's an interesting scene because the
first time you see Bella wake up and he's stalking
her in her bedroom and then she turns dream She's like,
that was the first night I dreamt of Edward Culent.
So it's played off. It's like, okay, we used the
audience think, okay, maybe that was a dream, and then

(44:44):
when you see that scene again and he admits to
sneaking into her room and watching her sleep four months,
you're like, oh, that wasn't a dream. And then and
then she's like, all right, time to hook up kiss me.
Honestly though, this, uh, I almost get it. There was
another when I was very young, there was another vampire
book series called Cirque to Freak. You guys remember this now.

(45:08):
I'm not familiar with that as an educator. This is
a sexy vampire be signed about a vampire named I
think his name was Darren, and he was thank you.
I wrote the book, but Darren was the object of
my affection. I was like a little bit younger, it's

(45:28):
like maybe twelve or thirteen, and I didn't know how
my vagina informed my thoughts yet. So I was reading
the Cirque to Freaks books and it's about this like
young boy who was turned into a vampire by a
circuit sounder and goes on the road with these freaks
and he's he's a road vampire. He's a road vai,
like a road comic. But I feel like he really

(45:50):
informed my current lifestyle. He rode tests his vampire. But
in any case, I had a huge crush on him.
And in that book series, there was a point where
he had a crush on a girl and he would
just like hide around her in various places. And so
I had like these weird cabinets. I grew up in
a house with no doors, and and instead of closets,
we had these weird cabinets built into the walls. And

(46:13):
so I would imagine that Darren the vampire would hide
in the cabinet to hide. I wanted him to hide.
So when I see Edward emerged from behind a curtain,
I'm like, I get it. I wanted Darren in my cabinet.
In vampire practice, to hide and wait for your prey,
right for kids on them, though only when you're in love.

(46:36):
Get in my cabinet. It's about how about that scene
where Edwards like everything about me draws you in. I'm
so handsome and attractive and my voice and my sin
over yourself. And then he's like, but that's if I
needed it, is if I couldn't outrun you. He's like
dashing from tree to tree, hite me off. And then
she's like, I don't care, I trust you you. Oh,

(46:59):
here's an the fun moment where um, it's a scene
where he's like, what's in Jacksonville because he had been
leering at her and listening. Sorry, I just watched you
pour a lot of water out of your month having trouble.
I'm having trouble. I didn't eat for the first time
until two minutes before this, and then I had a
mis heart. So I think that my I'm physically compromising. Okay,

(47:22):
So that was talking her chode friend Mike about going
to Jacksonville, and meanwhile Edward is standing in the background
listening to everything she's saying and just leering at her.
The next scene, Edwards like, what's in Jacksonville? And then
she trips a little bit and he goes, she's awkward.
Can you at least watch where you're walking? Yeah, Like

(47:44):
for the first half of the movie, he's so mean
to her. Well, and that also enforces an age old
thing that my mom told me was true and that
I feel like every parent and maybe still do like
they in four is this dangerous? Like if a boy's
mean to you, that means he likes you, you know,

(48:05):
like if someone's being repeatedly aggressive and rude to you,
which and it's usually like with younger kids, but they're
like if they if they're being mean to you, it
means they like And it's usually boys towards girls, except
unless you're hell good, attacky, and then you if you're
hell good, attacky, you're fine. Well sure, and yeah, like
nagging is a common flirtation technique. However, it's usually like,

(48:29):
let's say she trips a little bit a flirtatious way. Yeah,
well he'd be like, He's like, oh jeez, at least
launch where you're walking. He but he like, don't yell.
That's a good rule of thumb. Don't yell at the
object of your affection. Again, what's at the center of

(48:50):
this is the fact that Edward cannot deal with the
fact that he's a vampire. He wants to be a
good person, but he has this this label, this identity,
and he doesn't know what to do with it, right,
But he's not true to that. About forty five minutes
into the movie, everything switches and all of a sudden,
he's like, all right, let's date. Let's do this. I
know that I'm a bad guy, but I want to
put you next to this bad guy that I am. Yeah,

(49:11):
like that apple scene, right, where he says he's just
trying to like that symbolism for something I couldn't tell.
He's just trying to get information out of her, and
she says, you know, your mood swings are kind of
giving me whiplash, like completely acknowledges that he is just
so back and forth. And then as soon as they
start dating, he develops a personality all of a sudden,

(49:31):
and he's like, I'm gonna jump on your truck and
and she's like, can you really pretend to be human neighbors?
It's funny. So there's just flirting and fun. I like
the scene where they try to kiss and he's like,
I would I fuck you do that. The sexual aspect

(49:51):
of the relationship is so problematic. It gets worse and worse,
where he's like, if I do you die, I'm super
strong so I could kill you. I want to bite
you all this this is what every man is told
me that if you'd pass away. But um, but yeah,
that's no, that's no good. But the scene where they
do hook up and they can and I will say
for me, the sparks were flying. Oh there's something there.

(50:14):
I was like, that was a good, like story aside
a good movie kiss. It's hot. That's a hot kiss,
but then you know, but then you remember the horrible
story that's taking place. The aftermath of that is really
disturbing to me, because they kiss and it's hot. They
go from like vertical to horizontal really fast, and you're like,
it's getting exactly and then he's like, stop it, and

(50:36):
he throws himself off at her, and then she's sort
of like in her bed, very in a very vulnerable
like she's in her underwear. She's like kind of hunched
over it, and she's just like she's awkward, very unco
what it's like. It's clear that she feels ashamed because
she's like, I'm sorry, he said he told her to
stop it. Yeah, and then or I don't like, is
it him telling himself to stop it or is it

(50:57):
telling her? It's hard to say, but she's like, I'm sorry,
and she's put in this position where like she then
feels shame for like trying to be sexual. And it
made me feel weird not to come to the rescue
of Edward Colin. But at least he made his needs
known in the moment and stopped a situation he was

(51:18):
not prepared to enter for abstinence. What's what's going on there?
There's definitely some sort of abstinence thing because they wait
for a marriage in the series, don't they Let me
see if I remember right, JT. You'll know Kaitlyn, You'll
know you guys will she Is she a vampire? Before
he can fuck her? Or does he? I think he
focks her. Well, she's still mortal on their the night

(51:41):
that they get to the island, right, but then it's
like there's like restraints, invaulved isn't there, There's like something. Well,
she wakes up the next morning and she's black and blue.
He like he got really aggressive. They break the beds
and then the maid comes in in the morning. He's like,
what the yeah, call the police throw on an island.

(52:02):
Something disturbing has happened here. I vaguely remember that, and
by the time I read it, I knew it was
not okay. I'm glad that we at least the first
movie there's at least a little bit of wiggle room
where there's at least some parts of the movie that
might be construed as relatable for someone if they were
a teenager or a young adult. In two thousand and eight.

(52:25):
As the book go on, you're just like this just
spirals out and it gets fucking weird after she wakes
up black and blue on is las Man during the honeymoon.
Is that really what it's called? Yes? After his mother
and then his adopted mother who's younger than he is.
Oh yeah, he's so upset with himself for hurting her

(52:45):
so badly that the rest of the honeymoon they just
like play chess. They aren't allowed to touch, but once
when she's a vampire they can find. They have sex
all the time. The first month, they move into a
house just for fucking because it's so loud, just like
the baseball scene, but different funck house. Are you serious?
I'm very serious. I don't know if this happens in
the movie, but it definitely happens in the book. They
fucked so loud they need a house. They the Cullens,

(53:07):
have a house on site that's like a mile away.
They can't no one could be within a mile of
them because they fucked so loud. That sounds tight, But
the road we take to get to the the isolated
house is dark, right alright, So some alternatives. I kind
of wish that this movie was more about Bella and

(53:27):
her gay best friend Jacob. How would the movie have
been different if that was the the a story. You know,
Edwards just like the b in the background, like who
cares about the vampire? Well, Jacobs barely in this movie. Unfortunately,
I know I forgot how little he was because I
was really like looking forward to look Aunt Taylor Lawtner's wig.
How little he wasn't it. He's in that great scene
where um Pilla's like, what did your friend mean about

(53:50):
the Cullens don't come here? And he's like, oh, you
heard that that line of dialogue that was very audible
and that everyone was like everyone in the all of
her friends to stare for a second. Yeah, He's like,
oh you caught that. Yeah, every fon king person caught that.
Or another weird scene. I mean, all the scenes between
Bellett and Jacob are first of all, less weird than

(54:10):
any scene between Belle and Edward, more dynamic than any
scene between Bellett and Edward. But also there's always like
a weird uncanny valley quality to it, where it's towards
the end where Jacob shows up, walks out of the
woods or something, and he's like my dad said me
the spy on you like say it paid me twenty
dollars to talk to you. And then she's just like, well,
you better go get that. I was like, this is

(54:34):
extremely suspect, vaguely dressed up for problem. He's wearing like
a nice button. But he doesn't go in. He goes
to a different he doesn't go to this in the reservation. Well,
then day isn't he's really earning that twenty dollars. Like,
I gotta like the part you went shopping before he came.
How far does twenty dollars going forks Washington cheese? So far?
For years? Different time? Well, he's like, my dad wants

(54:58):
me to tell you to break up and stay away
from your boyfriend. And then Edwards shows up and he
was like get here, I'll take it from here. Like
and just another way that he controls here, doesn't let
her talk to any other men. He's just always, oh,
let's talk about the scene. Well, Everard does Edward know about?
I forgot? Does Eward know about the werewolves? But Jacob
doesn't know yet. He's just like, I'm just wearing a wig.

(55:21):
Well he knows. I think he knows that he's descended
from like the wolf clan. I think he knows. He
thinks it's a story though, right, yeah he does, they said,
because there's that scene on the beach where he basically says, yeah,
it's just a weird Washington thing. You're just like okay, sure, yeah,
but like his elders turned into wolves, Like wouldn't he
know about that? Because Act one, remember all of his friends,

(55:43):
all of his like reservation friends, are like going off
and being weird and getting sick. And he's like, I
don't know why I'm all alone. I haven't hit all
my friends. I want to get sick, like get mono
and disappear and then come back. And he realized it
was like a secretly it's like maintained as a secret
until you start going what a horrible way to conduct, Like, Hey,
a crazy thing is going to happen to you, but

(56:04):
you can't know about it until it's actually happening to you.
I don't. That's how I got my period. No one
told you you were going to get your period. I
didn't really know what it was. I thought I shopped myself. Anyways,
that's sorry for another day. Yeah I did. I was like,
that's weird. I thought I would have did you know, really,
like your mom didn't tell you we were we were defunded.

(56:27):
We didn't get sex fed at my school, and so
I thought I shipped myself, And I'm like, can I
no longer? I thought that, like my sphincter was un
or something. But it turns out this is a woman
and worked. Okay, so maybe it's not so unbelievable. I
can relate with Jacob the whorwolf. Why got it? Let's
talk about the scene where she goes to Port Angels

(56:49):
and those creepy dudes follow her and pray on her. So,
as I mentioned, she sort of fights back. They're like, hey,
pretty lady, where are you going? And she's like, get
away from me, don't touch me. Edward shows up saves her,
which happens a bunch of times. Don't worry a mentalist
of all the times, and he has to save her,
but as JT You pointed out, I'm an education puts.

(57:10):
He takes her out of that one dangerous situation and
then puts her immediately into another dangerous situation because he's
driving extremely recklessly. Get a bad boy. He yells at
her about how she always puts herself in these dangerous
situations as you're so awkward. She's always following and then
pulls right out in the middle of traffic. It's like
beebe like everyone's just yelling at him. And then the

(57:31):
aftermath of that scene is when they like show up
at the restaurant, and I love the restaurants. So it's
so restaurant, so weird. I love it. So she's like,
you gotta give me some answers. She's demanding to know
what's going on right, still being she should not have
let her friends leave first of all, but that's a

(57:52):
that's a novice mistake I could see myself making. I
was I was wriends. We're so mad when she disappeared
for twelve hours, but then when edwards they're they're like,
they're like, we better get going. So she's like, did
you follow me? And he's like, I just feel very
protective of you. This is okay, Listen, sometimes someone's gonna

(58:12):
stare at you during your math test and you're gonna
be like, I'm just being protected. I'm kidding him. But
it's so frustrating that she keeps being like, tell me
what the funk is going on? And he's just like,
I'm protecting you, and then she keeps following her. And
this is also the scene where we finally get some

(58:34):
answers and he reveals that he can read minds right,
and then he can't read her right, and then the reaction, Oh,
she's like, is there something wrong with me? You can't
read my mind? What's wrong with it? Right? So automatically,
I'm the person that's messed up in this situation right
where you were just like I'm a mind reader and
you're like, I'm I'm sorry. But here's the thing. I

(58:57):
don't want to relate to this movie in any way,
but as I say, exteen or seventeen year old girl,
well you have to put yourself in the yeah, like
when I you know, you're very self conscious. You don't
have a lot of self esteem at that age usually,
So I think it was it was actually kind of
like humanizing a bit too. I found it believable that
she'd be like, that's wrong with me. Teenagers of either

(59:18):
gender are easily manipulated. True, I know this. I was
just doing it to a teenager this morning. I mean, well,
it's just him being feeling so protective of her and
controlling of HER's just one of the many ways he's
abusive toward her. And backtracking a little bit to the

(59:39):
scene where they're all at the beach that there is
a point where it's the friend who isn't Ana Kendrick, Angela, Angela,
she so Angela wants to ask Eric Eric, angel wants
to ask Eric to the prompt and Bella And this

(01:00:00):
part literally infuriates me because I know how unfair this
whole serious is too women. Where Bella says take control.
You're a strong and independent woman, and I'm like, where
do you get off? You're about to go vampire man.
There's a few moments in this movie where it's like,
there's Bella's last stand as a as a person with
any sort of agency or opinions. Bella initially do that

(01:00:22):
a lot in the beginning when Angela first meets Bella,
Angela's like, hey, I work for the newspaper and I'm
just so tired of talking about eating disorders. And Bella
is like, what about the boys swim team spidos and
and she was like, yeah, you're really good at advice. Yeah, honestly,
which here this is a controversial opinion because obviously Mike

(01:00:47):
is a chode, but I think she should have just
employed the catch all Jamie Loftus solution of just date
Mike so that she can fix him. No, just to
kill some time and give the vampire time to get
the funk out of her way and not ruin her life.
Better to have a chowd for a couple of months

(01:01:07):
than be immortal and have a baby that's eating you.
Well again, I think she should have dated Jacob. Jacob
is her best friend. Jacob. Do you think they had
a report? They know they I agree, But do you
think he was gay? That first movie? I prayed I
don't even believe in God, and I prayed God, he's

(01:01:29):
a great and then Stephanie were ruins him by making
him a pedophile. I'm cutting off that wig. What did
you say? Oh, he's so handsome. There's a looking Adam.
Another fun scene that Bella. She's like, why did you
hate me so much? And he's like, I did, but
only for making me want you so badly, which is

(01:01:52):
Victim't blame me. Oh my god, what you said? And
it's like, if you weren't so so fucking I won,
I'm your blood. I'm good again. It's Edward has a
problem inside. He's trying to figure out who he is.
He hasn't seen that excuse, and he puts it on Bella.

(01:02:14):
It's not definitely not fair. The scene where he makes
her say the word vampire, see it vampire, vampire, and
then he's not even a good line read no cousin vampire.
He grabs her arm and yanks her and literally pulls
her through No, no, I trust you, my little spider monkey.

(01:02:40):
And then seconds later he gives the line, so the
lion fell in love with the lamb, and that's the like,
that's when he decides to fall in love with her.
That's it. Oh the scene where they're falling in love
and there's fog and Edward Collins flaming the piano, it's
actually I remember you're just like ow. The director was like,

(01:03:03):
why not? Female director? To add insult to injury, Catherine
Hardwick directed this movie. Woman director, female woman screenwriter, adapted
by a book written by a woman. Should be a winner,
should be here we are. But yeah, everyone's the wrong
woman and they found a bunch of bad ones. Let's

(01:03:28):
talk about act three whenever. This movie ends great. Finally,
Bella goes after James to be a martyr, to be
like again. Right, of course Edward has to step in
and save her. One of many times he saves her,
so we've got saves her from the van, saves her
from the creepy dudes, and port Angelis, saves her from James.

(01:03:51):
He steps in to save her. There's vampire venom all
up in her. So she's lying on the floor. She
doesn't do anything. She's supposed to be the protagonist, she's
the hero of this story. She doesn't do anything to
resolve the conflict. She's rendered completely inactive and totally passive,
and she doesn't do anything to determine the outcome of

(01:04:13):
the story, which is not how storytelling works. How do
you know so much about storytelling? Oh, it's just because
I have a master's degree in screenwriting from Boston University.
Alfred Molina is to Jamie as screenwriting degree is to Caitlin.
That was one of the questions on my g r E,

(01:04:35):
which I did have to take to go to grad
school for his screenwriting. Man, what year did Alfred Molena
joined the Royal Shakespeare Company? Seven? Okay, so the protagonist
of this that's my security question. The protagonist in this movie,
in her most dire moment, is paralyzed. Yeah, right, well
that this kind of reminds me to just bring Alfred

(01:04:55):
back into it, Freddie Sorry, um of sort of that
one an off moment in Spiderman two at the climactic
scene where Mary Jane makes one attempts to hit a
blow in the villain and it is just ceremoniously thrown
to the side. And that's pretty much what happens to Bella.
She she makes the choice to go. She we see

(01:05:16):
her making a choice. Things are bad, but at least
you know, you're like, all right, she's making a decision.
It's bad, but it's well, it's a stupid as hell
choice because she's not equipped to fight these vampires you
know who is the other vampires who she's friends with now,
But she makes a choice, and that happens so rarely already.

(01:05:36):
So it's like at that point I was like, I
know what happens, but that is misleading and that maybe
she'll do something. And then she does make like one
attempt to go against what was like, what were we
calling him the sniffer. She tries to get the sniffer
and then he sniff, he's he sniffs her right to
the side. She's she's done. He touches her leg and

(01:05:57):
it breaks right and you're just like, well, there goes
the protagonist. She's done. So God, it was just so
annoying that she is completely ineffective in doing anything to
determine It's a moment in the story. It's a big
moment for the relationship though, between Bella and Edward. Remember,
she's bleeding profusely, and Alice can't control herself. She might

(01:06:18):
like bite off her head at any time, and that's
why she did just rip off someone else's Carlyle sends
her off to actually do some damage, and that's when
Edward learns about himself that he won't eat her because
he loves her so much and he doesn't want her
to die. But I know it's so romantic. Well, and
then the scene after that when she's when Bella is

(01:06:40):
in the hospital, her mom's like, what, you don't want
to move to Phoenix again? You want to stay in
Forks with hot ass Charlie Swan, Well, okay, and then
she leaves. Let's just say as Charlie Swan and then Edward,
who had been pretending to be asleep because guess what,
he doesn't need to sleep. Great, I bet you get

(01:07:01):
so much done, except you don't because you just go
to high school. Exactly. You don't have to go to
high school. You could just stay inside. Rob is classically
trained as an actor in Sleeping. He's really good. I
believed it classically trains Sleeper. Well, okay, so the scene

(01:07:21):
in um the hospital whenever Edward's like, you know what,
I don't maybe we shouldn't be together. I'm putting you
in too much danger Allah spider Man, but She's like,
I can't live without you, baby. We gotta get one
last infuriating moment in there where he's like, I've treated

(01:07:44):
you shitty this entire movie, and now I'm saying that
maybe we shouldn't be together, and she's just like, no,
but I'm irreflacably in love with you, irrevocably there. I mean,
there are consequences to being with Edward right, Like, she's
literally broken after this fight. Um, she's broken up with
her dad. After spending months trying to fix this relationship
that she hasn't had since she was four or whatever,

(01:08:05):
she has to lie to him. What she says that
was a painful scene to watch. She really breaks his
heart with like they both do a really good job.
I don't want to end up like mom just stuck here, right,
And he's like, I am boring, that's all she's implying.
It's like, you're such a drag dad um really quickly
on the subject of Catherine Hardwick, because it is extremely

(01:08:27):
difficult and was relatively historic at the time for a
female director in two thousand and eight to be given
the reins to this massive blockbuster. Her previous directorial history
prior to this included a movie I used to love
that I would probably not love as much if I
revisited now, called Thirteen. It came out in two thousand

(01:08:51):
three before I was thirteen, so I was like, this
is what I have to look forward to. And it's
like young girls fucking and doing drugs and messing their
lives up. But anyways, that was like her big debut
and and she graduated out of that started getting bigger
Hollywood gigs, gets Twilight does almost every installment, I don't

(01:09:13):
think she does the last one. And then just speaking
to women in Hollywood in general, since Twilight this massively
for all of its shortcomings, of which there are many.
For all of its massive success, she has had very
little major release work since then, which I think is

(01:09:34):
a testament she sorry not to correct her man's plain, Um,
you are my least favorite man in the one. Uh.
New Moon was directed by Chris Wentz, so not not her,
but she well maybe she was was directed by David Slade.

(01:09:54):
Breaking Dawn was directed by Bill Condon, so it seems
like it was all men after this first one. Wait
a second, Okay, So yeah they didn't. It was a success.
It was a huge success. It was a huge success.
Oh okay, So she sorry, I was misreading that. Yeah,
she dropped out of the New Moon sequel. She was

(01:10:16):
offered the New Moon sequel but ended up not being
able to do it because of a scheduling thing, which
is like, Katherine, make it work, got it. It seems
as though the screenwriter, Melissa Rosenberg, did work on Slash
right most of the sequels, so she returned for the others.

(01:10:37):
It's bizarre because yeah, if you look at Katherine Harberg's
filmography since then, she didn't direct another movie for three
years after the first Twilight and has only directed three
movies total in the past ten years, so I'm ready
for her comeback. You know, right. She directed Lord of Dogtown,
the skateboard movie for gran outline. Yeah skip that one.

(01:10:58):
I didn't see that. She also directed The Nativity Story
that also, you know, let's not rule up the fact
that maybe she's not a great director, but also crummy
male directors getty second chances. Katherine Hardwick has not been
as fortunate, and it just feels worth mentioning. I can't
speak to the quality of her work because you know, Lord,

(01:11:20):
every movie that I'm thinking of that she's directed kind
of sucks. I have a day dream where this story
isn't about Edward and Bella. It's about Bella and Charlie
and a comeback story where a young daughter learns to
love her dad again. And sure there's a vampire in
the background, but at the end of the day, Charlie
really loves his daughter. You know, Charlie is so bad

(01:11:42):
at his job. He's a police officer and crime is
running rampant. There are other worldly creatures and most of
the time he's at a diner ordering food for Bella.
He's like, she'll have this is not a jump Oh yeah,
that's true, which like, what is this? He cal Hockley's

(01:12:02):
orders her. You like, lamb right, sweepy, that's all right,
it's about time, you know. Yeah, he does make some
questionable choices with his career as the town police officer.
He's the chief of not even just like a random officer.
He's the chief. So they're animal tax happening all around
town and he arms Bella with some mace you know,

(01:12:28):
the vampire stopper mace um. At one point after the
field trip where Bella has a horrible time with Edward,
she comes home and he's already on his second beer
at lunch, and she immediately starts cleaning up after him.
She does. Yeah, so that's why I wanted that to
be the focus of the story. I understand why Bella's

(01:12:48):
mom left him, because he does seem to be a
bad at his job and be an alcohol However, both
parents are really horrible and like, it's so amazing that
Bella is alive. Hey, listen, if Robert Pattinson is raw dogging, hey,

(01:13:08):
you're like, I wasn't raised right. There's a fun scene
where they're like talking about going to prom and Bella
is like, but I can't dance and Edward says, I
can always make you very romantic. And another moment where
she's not like the others was where he makes some
sort of numbers joke and then she's like, I don't

(01:13:29):
need to know what the square root of pie is.
I'm like, oh she is, she's a smart cookie, and
he's swoon and he's like, you know, or when she
knows women in stem you are, and then when she
knows the name of a composer and she's like, oh, yeah,
he's really good, and then he's like, you know that
is and then he's like, I have to take out
my fog machine. I need to play your piano right now. Well,

(01:13:52):
that's one of my big problems with this movie, just
in a narrative sense, is that we don't really ever
know why they like each other are except for the
fact that they're attracted to each other. But they're like,
but he's you're right, They're just both so devoid of
personality that like it's confusing why they like each other,
Like what are they compatible about? Nothing? Well, Edward can't

(01:14:15):
you know. He hears everyone's thoughts all the time, and
people are gross. Right, It's like sex, sex sex cats, right,
and like that should be annoying, right, So, like he
comes across young Bella and like, I get why it
would be enticing, but he paints this picture of like,
this is fate, this is destiny. We have to be
together right now, I have to stalk you. And that's
just not how it should have been. Well, like, if
he finds her intriguing that he doesn't have to listen

(01:14:36):
to her thoughts all the time, I'm fine, I guess
I get that. But then he demands to know what
she's thinking all the time. He's like, you're the only
person I can't read, so you need to tell me
what you're thinking all the time. And then she's like
and unfortunately, she's probably like, um, sex and cats. Unfortunately
you have a blind spot. But I am a person
and thinking about sex and pats as well. But she's not.

(01:14:58):
She's thinking about numbers and I don't want to dance.
I'm I'm awkward. One thing I do want to point out,
which does not redeem this movie in any way, but
I do like that there's pretty equal gender balance in
terms of about half the characters are women whose names
we know and have at least some role in the story.

(01:15:22):
Because a problem we come up with on the podcast
a lot is that there are hardly any women in
this whatever story we're talking about. And it's nice that
Bella has some female friends. She's got Jess, she's got Angela,
she's got Alice. They like develop more of a friendship
in the later movies and books, and she has a
relationship with her mom. So it's nice to see that

(01:15:44):
there are some like female bonds. They have thoughts, they
all have opinions, they all have conflicts. Except for Victoria
the vampire. I think she's just trying to eat people.
But everyone else, well she gets made at the very
very end because she's that prom watching as vampires do.
She's no the blonde one. Is that Rosalie. She's a star.

(01:16:07):
Oh Nicky Reid. Uh, it's one of those directors and
now you know, bringing back the cast, get the gang
back together. But Victoria is one of the evil vampires ladies,
the one the last person you see in the movie
for some reason, because well she was with she was
dating James, whose head gets ripped off, kissed and she's mad.

(01:16:31):
She's like, you've ripped off my friend's head. If for
I loved this hip for so she has a personal
vendetta against Bella now, which becomes the story. It was real.
It wasn't just like a teenage romance where they just
like sort of like the way each other looked like
they like they were together for a while. They were
as vampires do. Does anyone have any final thoughts about

(01:16:53):
the Have you gotten three or seven pages of notes? So? Yeah,
overprepared because I'm a type a educator. I think I
loved this movie ten years ago because I didn't know
what it meant to be a feminist, and I didn't
know what it meant to love myself or love another person.
And now I am sort of a feminist and I
myself yeah, I mean I have some t shirts what

(01:17:16):
the Future is Female? Check me out on Twitter. Um.
But now I have a good sense of what it
means to be in a stable, normal, respectful relationship. And
I can look back and say, this was a fun
movie to pre Game two before I went out to
the club. But I don't think that it's a very
positive film, and I don't I wouldn't recommend it to
any of my students, thank you. I think that that

(01:17:37):
is a sentiment that a lot of us can relate to. Yeah,
we're like ten years ago, it was a not a
simpler time. It was a it was a more lectris time.
And the further you go back, the worse it gets.
So we're doing better now. We're in a better place
as a culture. Moana came out, and since then things
have been on well, the up and up, except then

(01:17:59):
the but then Transformers came out of game. I mean,
I don't know if we're in a better place as
a culture, but we as individuals are in better places
killing Donald Trumps president. So you know that's not too good. No,
it's not too good at all. We as a culture
don't like that. But my taste has gotten even more

(01:18:20):
exquisite if you could believe it from ten years ago.
So Spider Man two is still in my top five
and has been for over ten years. Check out a
Spiderman Homecoming. I really enjoyed it. Oh, I haven't seen
it yet. I want to say, I want to describe
it as irrevocably, but that one irrevocably a movie I've seen.
It's true. You can't go and see it. Take it back.

(01:18:45):
There's a lot of female characters. For how bad this
movie is. Two women, true, like you were just saying,
which is and I hadn't even thought of it. It
probably is about half and half in terms of male
versus female characters, which doesn't happen a lot in movies,
but also said just as bad that all the female
characters are just well. There are many more opportunities for

(01:19:08):
the movie to pass the Bechdel test than we see
in the average movie. What was Your Reads? I think
it does, but only very, very minimally, and often in
a conversation where they then shift the focus to a man, right,
so like it's we're talking to line exchanges. At one point,
Bella and Angela and Jess are talking about their prom dresses, right,

(01:19:33):
and then the subtext is it's about the boys and
how the boys will react to the dresses. Yeah, right,
So still technically passes. But there's one scene in the
kitchen in the Vampire House between Alice and Bella. She says, hi,
I'm Alice, Bella says hi, and then Alice says, you
do smell good. And then as May is like, are

(01:19:56):
you hungry? And Bella is like yes, right, and and
then you're like a weird dramatic unnecessary she just ate
and all right, and then Rosalie is like she breaks
the glass right, and I'm just like, calm down. She's
really upset to be To be fair, a family of

(01:20:17):
one year old vampires are trying to quart a seventeen
year old so they make an Italian meal. And then
Twilight is a movie that forever changes the Bechtel test.
It's like, how does the Bechtel test change when women
can be food? You know, I'm into I'm into this
line of thing. I don't think it passes because they're

(01:20:40):
always talking to food, not to people, not to other women.
It's like, you're not be Where were you on that?
What if women can also be eaten? Right? It's like
two meals talking to each other. That doesn't pass the
Bechtel test. I would say the scene where Bella and
just meet each other in the gym after she's just
spiked of volleyball at chowed Mike's head passes because Jessica goes,

(01:21:04):
I'm Jessica, by the way here from Arizona, right. Bella
was like yeah, and use aren't people from Arizona supposed
to be like really tan? And Bella is like, maybe
that's why they kicked me out que uproarious laughter from everybody,
like we love me girl, She's funny. Yeah. I mean
this movie as a movie that they're you know, books

(01:21:26):
written on how bad it is to women, does pass
the Bechdel test if you can believe it. But as
we often acknowledge, the Bechdel test is not like the
end all be all. It is literally syndicator. Right, Yeah,
let's start here and then so Twilight, for all of
its shortcomings, gets to step one. But that's as far

(01:21:50):
as it stops. Right there. With that, let's rate the
movie our nipple scale. To our listeners who are not
familiar with the nipple scale, Let's start with the Twilight episode.
Go back and listen to Thelma and Louise come on
or mo wanna come on, and then revisit this episode.
Go listen to Gli No, do not endorse that No

(01:22:15):
Julie is a good episode. Hey, I give it one
nipple because we're rating it based on its portrayal of women.
One nipple because I do like that there's a pretty
equal gender balance in terms of male versus female characters,
pretty equal across the board, and I like that you
do see Bella often standing up for herself again. It

(01:22:38):
doesn't really matter because she ends up in this abusive relationship,
but you do, at least, on many many occasions, see
her and be like, no, don't touch me, No I
want answers, No, stop gaslighting me. I know what I saw, like,
bye bye bye. Two thirds away into the movie, it's
she's done for, but we do the dying breaths of

(01:23:02):
what was once a somewhat confidence in the work. She
is awkward, but someone who can at least ask, you know,
not afraid of confrontation, not afraid of asking a question
that is reasonable to a man. Sure, yes, So that's
why it gets one star and not zero stars stars.
Oh my god, I'm so sorry. Okay, one nipple, one

(01:23:34):
nipple for Caitlin, one nipple for me would have gotten
a zero nipple rating. But it has a tiny little
thing going for it. Isn't there a thing where you like,
give the nipple to someone, Yeah, we will. We describe
the nipple. My nipple belongs to Jacob, whose nipple we
see in New Moon. He's like, I'm riding on a motorcycle.

(01:23:55):
I gotta take my shirt off, and you see his
nipple and it's a good Nipple highly endorsed that nipple,
so Team Jacob, Team Jacob agree. I'm gonna give it
one and a half nipples because technically, with R. Rubric
it does pass the bactial test, which I was honestly
very surprised that it does technically more than once there
are a lot of female characters and then almost exclusively

(01:24:19):
wasted potential. But this is to be clear, the one
and a half is for this movie only, not in
any way for the whole series, which gets negative nipples
because it actively removes more and more agency from its
female characters as the series goes on, begins to kill
them off, etcetera. But for this movie alone, I'll give

(01:24:39):
it one and a half because, like you were saying,
we see Bella not be totally gaslighted that at the beginning,
we see her fight as she goes down, uh and
descends into the worst years of her life, which presumably
lasts forever. Uh. It's I give one and a half,
and I'm going to give one to that fucking Jacksonville

(01:25:03):
batting cage showed Phil, and then I'll give half of
one to Angela because she was the closest we got
to anything. She was a strong independent woman. She asked.
She asked Eric and he said, yes, they go to
prom together. They sure do good for her. Go angela
half a nipple for you. Um, I interesting premise. I

(01:25:26):
mean it didn't really deliver, But I think this would
have been a great movie if it were about Bella
and her dad or Bella and her gay best friend Jacob.
It was not about those things. So I'm gonna give
it one What can it be about Bella and her mom?
Why can it be about a female in Florida? That
doesn't have to happen when you're rewriting the story. Okay,
so we're rewriting. Okay, I'm still giving it one and

(01:25:48):
a half nipples. And that is because in the trailer
to New Moon, there was a lot of controversy about
edwards left nipple. If you guys haven't read about Nipplegate,
people really went to town Twitter about Edwards. Maybe funked
up body, Maybe he wasn't as perfect as everyone thought.
I actually kind of remember that one and a half

(01:26:09):
nipples for Rob Pattinson's left nipple. Thank you, dear God,
Hey JT, my dear friend. Yes, thanks for being here,
thank you for having me We've had a swell time.
This is really different from my day job, which is
an educator. Right, do you want some followers? Where can
people find you? On Twitter at JT in the Cloud.
I say funny things about culture and video games and

(01:26:31):
education and feminism. Hey, you can follow the Bechtel Cast
on many different platforms for instance, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Bechtel
Cast some variation on it. Fucking banger in Out. You'll
find it. We have a live show kind of in
New York in September. UM. We'll be posting more about that.
Probably by the time this comes out. You'll be able

(01:26:52):
to buy tickets. That's exciting. Check our various media places.
Find out a place to buy things. To that thing
and we'll see you at that thing, and we're gonna
have a big old fun time. We're gonna chillax, chillax.
We're gonna be lamping in New York City. Push baby, Okay,
bye bye. Say it.

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