V for Vendetta with Marcella Arguello

On this very invigorating and vibrant episode, Vaitlin, Vamie, and visitor Marcella Arguello voice their valuable views on V for Vendetta. 

(This episode contains spoilers)

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the Beck dol Cast, the questions asked if movies
have women and are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,
or do they have individualism the patriarchy? Zef in best
start changing it with the beck Del Cast. Hello, Welcome
to the beck Del Cast. My name is Jamie, my
name is Katelin, says our podcast about the portrayal of

(00:22):
women in movies. That's right, and how it's usually not good.
That's right, but sometimes it is sometimes better than you think. Rightsive,
those are the outliers. I'm negative. Nancy over here, still fun, dynamic? Yeah,
good cop, bad cop. Yeah, I'm feeling I'm feeling good today.
It's very hot, but it's okay. And you just came

(00:43):
from Universal Studios. I did. I have a friend in
town and I had to occupy her for a finite
number of hours. Had some passes to Universal. It worked
out perfect. So we went on a bunch of did
you go to the Mommy Ride? If we go to
the mad it's the best ride. Yes, we did go
to the Mommy Ride. When on the Harry Potter Ride,
When in the Simpsons ride, did did the whole bit,

(01:05):
you know, like reach that point where It's like we've
been friends for so long that we got into like
a small silent argument in the middle of the day,
and then it just passed in the way that it
does with old friends. And then we went on the
Harry Potter ran again and now I'm here a pretty
good day. Great, awesome. I sat in my bed for
several hours. Amazing. Also a good day. So our podcast

(01:28):
is inspired by the Bechdel Test. It's a test that
requires that two characters in the movie are women, They
have names, they talk to each other in their conversation.
It can be about anything besides a man created by
Alison Bechdel. Been around for a long time. We just
use it as a yardstick for a larger discussion that

(01:48):
was concise, that was that was a really good one,
good for us, for us, for us, all right, And
with that, let's introduce our guests. You've seen her on
at midnight. She's gonna win at midnight world times. She's
a hilarious comedian. Marcella Arguayo, Oh my god, thank you
so much. Told the applause, Thank you everybody, Thank you

(02:08):
for having me, Thanks for coming. I'm excited. So we're
talking about v for Vendetta my favorite movie, okay, of
all time? I think, so well cool. When did you
first see it? Bad? I can't answer. I don't know.
I don't know when I first saw it. I just
remember loving it and calling it more, and then watching
it again and loving it more. And this is coming
from a person who hates movies. I hate movies, and

(02:31):
I don't know. I don't know what did it. I mean,
I guess I could guess, but I remember at the beginning,
I was like, I don't know what. Why do I
keep watching this movie over and over and over again?
When I loved it? Um, it used to be I
would watch it every fifth of November because I was like,
I'm watching this every year, I might as well kind
of like save it for the fifth of November. And
then my dad's funeral was on the fifth of November,

(02:53):
and then I stopped watching it. I stopped watching it
for a few years, and then I just recently got
back into watching it again. I don't know. I can't
associate the November five. I can associated with two things
and be fine with it. And actually that might have
been the first November if they missed it for for
that exact reason. And it's weird because I don't even
know how I landed on it, because, like I said,
I don't like a lot of movies, like watching a

(03:14):
lot of movies, but I really I liked this one,
and this is one of those movies too, Like I like,
even by looking at the poster, you're like, oh, this
movie is pretty long. Ye Like it looks like, oh
this is We're going to have to strap in and
do some thinking on this one. All right, Am I
ready a lecture? Yeah? Exactly. There's gonna be some philosophical
something or other, So there's gonna be a lot of
Domino visual. One of my favorite parts of the movie, like,

(03:38):
oh he just had this, He just had those rounds
he did. Yeah, he had everything. Where did come from?
He's still in a bunch of somebody also was able
to somehow for that giant house shadow gallery that he
lived in. This is what I kind of like about
like graphic novel adaptations to or like it's even more
so than film. I feel like such a visual symbolic

(04:00):
medium that when it's adapted to film, like probably in
the graphic novel, it looks super cool and normal to
be like, oh, he just has these dominants, but in
the movie you're just like, wait, he just has those
dominant Like it's still super cool, but I was like
taken out of it for a second of like who
set those up? Like he lives alone, he doesn't doesn't
use the internet. No, that's another thing. This takes place

(04:22):
in twenties seven, and no one seems to have phones,
and there's like chunky desktops, which I also love. I love.
I love like futuristic movies for that reason of like
why do they have, you know, personalized door knobs, but
no one has a cell phone. The video that he
like makes everyone watch when he's like, in a year

(04:42):
from now, I'm going to blow up a building. It's
on like a like a little mini seed like that technology.
I used to love those mini c ds though, because
you could, like you could get them at Staples, and
I would remember I would make my friends mix CDs,
but you could only fit like three or four songs
on it. It was had to be really concise mix. Yeah,

(05:03):
and he had a concise mix. He did well. And
to your point about the future, and they didn't have
any cell phones, but their government was controlling them, so
they would have cell phones, So it was just like
all in theory, all the informations routed to them via
TV and that's their only source. That makes sense. Yeah,
well yeah, because that would cut down on their ability
to communicate with each If you try to make fun
of this movie, I'm gonna knock you down. That's why

(05:25):
we do this. I love this movie. The Dominoes though.
The Dominoes really I like rerouted again just to be like,
where did these art department who? Like, every time I
see that, that's what I think about, especially now I'm worked.
I've worked in this industry, Like, oh my god, how
many times did they have to do that? That's like,

(05:46):
I hope there was a shot that they did where
the Dominoes went perfectly and they're like, oh my god,
the camera wasn't onwards, battery was out. We're so sorry.
It looked amazing. Please reset all four thousand domina Oh
my god. That's that's all. It's the only thing I
think of now when I watched it. Yeah, yeah, I
mean it's like a it's like a visually beautiful movie.

(06:06):
There's so there's so much and the graphic novel is
really dark. So you've read it, Yeah, I've read it
and it's obviously longer, and I'm not one of those
like the books movie because I didn't watch I didn't
read the book before I watched the movie. So for me,
I'm just like, it's different. It's just a little different.
But I like because it's darker, which is where the
element of that like darkness, and it's always kind of

(06:28):
just there's just so there's so many elements of darkness.
We've said it five times now dark Um. It's a
same author as Watchmen, which I didn't enjoy. I did
not enjoy that movie. I liked the book. I mean
they're similar books like thematically, it's a very dark very

(06:48):
he's a he's a head scratcher, that Alan Moore. He's
also got a big old head of hair. I got
his Wikipedia. He is h he's a wanderer. You could
tell you he's walking the streets at night and getting inspired. Yeah,
he's with his hands in pockets. Very film noir. I
was trying to figure out more about what his deal
is so he would not put his name on this movie.

(07:09):
I read that. Yeah, I think and wouldn't take royalties either,
because I think he's just like I don't know old
punk rock k I read something to the fact that
he was dissatisfied with other film adaptations of his works
he was watching before this or after after, but he
was referring to he was not satisfied with the adaptations

(07:31):
of From Hell or or A League of Extraordinary Gentlemen.
So he's like, I'm not going to watch me for
Vendetta and Funk calling you guys it was probably the
best one. Yeah, yeah, that's only you. Hear most about,
like people still watch it, Yeah, yeah, yeah, people are
still inspired by it, which brings me to my history
when this mommy. I saw it in the theater I

(07:52):
think multiple times, and I was obsessed with it for
a while. I was so obsessed with it I wanted
to get a tattoo of the V symbol. Well I
never did, but I was like, I, God, maybe I
should get because I would very very much regret it.
But I was like, maybe my first tattoo will be
in the V symbol. Yeah, I just I loved it.
I saw it so many times, but um, I hadn't

(08:14):
seen it in quite a few years before I rewatched
it for this, and I have a bit of a
different take on it. Oh yeah, I still like it,
and I was still very moved by it. I cried
like three different times. That's like, but watching it through,
watching it through the Bechdel lens, you have a little

(08:34):
different perspective on it. I can understand that, Yeah, I
saw this movie. I want to say I saw it
like late high school or something like that. And then
I remember, right before I went to college, someone gave
me a V for Vendetta poster and I and I like,
I didn't super remember the movie very well, but I
liked what that projected. I was like, it would be

(08:55):
cool if someone wanted my room and saw Viva Vendetta poster.
So remember my whole freshman year of college, I had
a v from Himdetta poster, and I was just constantly
in fear someone was going to ask me a follow
up question, like I would be like, I don't what
is it about? Because I would wake up next to
it every day and be like, man, I like what
this says about me. I feel like it says I'm cool.

(09:16):
But I was. I liked the movie, but I had
only seen it once and then maybe I think I've
seen it maybe three times total. Now I watched it yesterday. Yeah, yeah,
well I can't wait to discuss it. But first I'll
do the recap, pre cap, pree cap so V for
Vendetta is set in the UK in sort of like
a police state, um neo fascist regime. We meet Evie Hammond,

(09:43):
the young woman, and we meet the sort of like
a radical vigilante guy who is trying to ignite a revolution,
and they cross paths on his way to blowing up
the Old Bailey, this monument basically like a high a
politicized Phantom of the Opera. That's like accurate, right. He

(10:04):
wears a mask. You never see him to take off
his mask in the entire movie and dry Butler and
Fantom of the And they crossed paths and he ends
up having to save her from Fingerman these like cops
who are trying to rape her. Ironically, yeah, man, who
want to finger her? What a scary scene, like right

(10:25):
at the that's I had forgotten about that scene. That
was the watch I really was. And then so she
sort of becomes embroiled in his plot. He wants to
blow up the houses of Parliament, inspired by Guy Fox
who tried to do the same thing in sixteen o five.
But you find out you learn over the course of
the movie that he has this vendetta whoa that's the

(10:46):
name of the movie. He's trying to seek revenge on
different members who rose to power who had wronged him.
He was basically imprisoned in this facility, was tested on.
They were like trying to develop biological warfare viruses that
they could that they did unleash on the population. A
hundred thousand people or something like who died. Yeah, the government,

(11:08):
in their sort of authoritarian style covered it all up
and they're like it was actually these religious extremists, but
it was actually the government who did this. So he's
basically trying to uncover all these secrets and kill all
the people who wronged him. And then he wants to
blow up the building because the building is a symbol
and that's going to ignite a revolution that he went.
So he's like, in a year, I'm going to blow

(11:29):
up this building, and everyone's like, oh my god, oh gay,
And then I love it, like it is like, oh,
just count down to domestic terrorism. From moment one of
the movie, you're like, yeah, cool. So he has to
basically capture and imprison Evy because she gets this whole

(11:50):
like recurring theme of I'm going to kidnap this woman
and re educate her to think exactly like me. There's
a lot of parallels between and then like kind of
a I guess, like not as much Beauty and the
Beast for me. It's just like a weird like I'm
taking this woman who speaks to me for whatever reason
and that's open to interpretation, and I'm gonna, you know,

(12:10):
kind of just get her too things like me and
agree with me on things. And then you know, I
don't know, I don't know where Yeah, well, I mean
I know, I mean, oh, I mean that's what this
movie is about. Although you could argue differently, but like, yeah,
we're watching. I was like, oh man, sorry, I keep
in directing. No, it's I mean, I'm sort of all
over the place with this recap because it's a hard
movie to summarize. There's a lot going on. There's a

(12:32):
lot going on. So there's also this Chief Inspector Finch,
who is trying to uncover the identity of v and
he's also after Evie Hammond because everyone thinks she's like
this accomplice, which she ends up being. He's a real
grumbly Powder. He's a pounding all He's like, hey, what's
going on over here? Who can I trust? And then
this whole sort of conspiracy gets uncovered where V was

(12:55):
at this detention center at lark Hill. This virus had
been tested on and they were able to use something
about like the antibodies in his blood to develop a
cure for the virus that then they then unleashed on
the population for Chancellor Sutler to gain political power and
then make a bunch of people rich in the in
this party, this political party. So a lot of details,

(13:16):
a lot going on, and then so in the end,
V gets his last revenge on Chancellor Sutler and his
like right hand gooney guy Creedy, and then V kills
them both. And then evis like, I guess now I
have to destroy the fucking Big Bend building. And then
she does, and then everyone's like wow, a revolution, and

(13:39):
the grumbly Powder guy is there too, and and she's like,
I'm going to blow the building and he's kind of like, yeah, okay,
I like that part where he's like, you know what's like,
you know what, I'm gonna just stand up together? Ye yes, yeah,
you see, like a flash forward. It's like the future
and they're together. So that's at the moment that they
write that it happened. M what a little what a

(14:01):
cute meet cute. It's a real it's a real round
come meetute. That's for sure. I can't wait to meet
my next boyfriend on the eve of a revolution. That's
the high stakes meet cute, and I'm into it. What
a good story? Like, oh yeah, before we blew up parliament,
we're like, maybe there's something here, yeah, question And this

(14:21):
may have just genuinely been like I was not paying
close enough attention. Um, were there people in the Parliament building?
Were we killing people? I feel like they had a
year's notice to like call in to work that day. Yeah,
I don't know. It didn't seem like there was or
I think I just seen it. Okay, that makes me
feel a little bit. I mean, I would assume it
would strictly be employees, So why would it be working
in the middle of the night. That's true, Yeah, because

(14:44):
it was at midnight when this happened. I was just
I was just like, I just hope. Yeah. I don't
think I'm all for symbolism. I just don't want to
want to get hurt. Yeah, I don't know. I don't
think people were in the building. If there were, would
have seen it, right. I don't think anyone was killed
when he blew up the bay Lee monument, either because
he did a lot of people. But but it would

(15:05):
have been reported or would it have been because the government,
it would have been discussed in the movie, not necessarily
told or informed. We would we would know. So that's
the story, and I kind of want to go through
the story in a different way, but as it relates
to the treatment of women, so I have some like
major pointing. So one of the first things that happens

(15:28):
is that ev goes outside past this government curfew and
almost gets raped by policemen the government, right, and then
she has to be saved by a man, and this
is when she meets V. So we see the trope
of a of a man having to save a woman
because she's in a dangerous situation. Well, there there is

(15:48):
something to be said about, especially what's going on in
the news right now with the Harvey Weinstein's and all
these motherfucker's that are sexually assaulting and raping women. I mean,
we do need men to stand beside us, so sure.
So in that way, I do like that he does
save her because he knows it's the right thing to do,
and he almost makes her feel like I'm not going
to do this too, because that's not right. There are people,

(16:11):
there are men and women that can exist side by side,
and a woman does not have to feel like she's
going to be raped by a man, because there's plenty
of guy friends of mine that I feel that way.
I feel safe with them, and we have to feel
safe with men in order to coexist, right, So I
actually like that. I honestly didn't mind it either. I
was more calling out that that is a trup that

(16:31):
we see over and over again, but it never bothered
me with this movie when I saw it. Well also
we we I mean, how often do we see a
woman about to get raped and then the dude immediately
kills those dudes because he's like, fuck you, how fucking
dare you rape this? Like no questions asked, Like there's
rarely immediate consequence, which is nice to see it. It is,

(16:53):
And it's also it's just nice that he just just like, oh,
you're gonna rape her, I'm gonna kill you, Like that's
not why are you mean this? And he doesn't know her,
he doesn't need to know her. I love that. I
really do love that. Yeah, I I I'm always like
a little bit like the second I you know, if
a woman is being like rescued at the very top
of the movies, and I'm like, I don't know. But

(17:14):
what I really do like about that scene is that
the conversation that takes place afterwards, where it's not implied
in any way that she owes him something, where she
asks her to hang that's okay, she agrees, that's okay,
Like I, you know, where it's like, okay, we've seen,
you know, at the top of the movie the man
saves the woman. But then I feel like it's very

(17:35):
often implied and now she is indebted to him and
it will spend a lot of time in the movie
trying to, you know, repay him, and that was never
implied in their relationship. Was also like the first time
the spark in his eye for her started because he
did the whole vv vv V and his monologue and
what's her name? And what's her name? E V And

(17:56):
he says, of course it is, you know, it's it's
it's right. I love it well, because his whole theme
is there are no coincidences. You know, everything is supposed
to be the illusion of yeah, it's it's linear, and uh,
I like that she has She's just like this, who
is this fucking psychopath? And he was just like, oh no,
this is meant to be. This is kind of cool. Right.

(18:18):
Do you think that he workshopped that speech? Do you
think he took it to open my practice? I'm so
ready for that moment? Like, and that's another fun like
adaptation trope where it's like that's such a like you know,
such a like poetic, like every word in the dictionary

(18:39):
that begins with V, he's like vile and viola ver
like you know, he went through there's a lot of
words he crossed out, probably in the pursuit of He's like, well,
when I meet a girl that I like, I'm going
to be so ready with not even it. He was
just like, when someone is worth talking to, I'm going
to be able to unleash the he's got. I've got

(19:01):
a tight three minutes of speech, and he got and
he's been practicing it the way he practices, which I
thought was very It was charming. You know what he's weird,
he's weird, he likes to have fun, he's still he's
still childlike. Yeah, the best people are still childlike. And
also I feel like just a general this isn't even

(19:22):
like a super gendered trope, but like just you see
like very isolated, lonely characters you don't very often see
just weird ship that they do, Like you know, when
you're alone a lot, and I can speak from personal experience,
you do weird ship, and like when someone's around, you're like,
oh wait, sorry, that's weird. Like I really enjoyed because
when she walks in on him, he's so embarrassed. He's like, right,

(19:47):
it would have been so easy for him to be
like and here's five more words that begin with me.
But he's sort of like, oh sorry, it's my favorite
movie and do you want to watch it? Like it's
super cute, and then he recites the lines as he's watching.
It's just something I am so guilty of it very
interest You'll find your own tree. Yeah, I thought that
that was He even changed his voice to say the

(20:09):
line that's what was also cute. Yeah, I was very
charmed by that scene. I watched it twice back to
the like him saving her thing. I wasn't bothered by
it as much because then you see her save him
later with what's that character's named Dominic. One of the
detectives is about to shoot him when they're in the

(20:29):
bt N building and Evie taps him on the shoulder
and then mass him, allowing v to get away. So right,
she sort of returns. I mean, that's why I always
liked and he always knew as there were equals. That's
what I always liked about their romance. Is as soon
as he met her and found out her name was Evie,
he was like, oh, fuck, yeah, she's it. She's my equal,
and not like she's a bitch I want to fuck.

(20:50):
She's my equal. And that's why you know she she
saves his life because he saved hers. And it's like,
that's what you do. You pay, You pay motherfucker back. Okay,
So the next thing that happens, and again I'm just
sort of like, I know, like the movie is more
nuanced than this, there's a lot more to take into consideration,
but I'm sort of just boiling down like very basic
plot points. So the next thing that happened, so she

(21:12):
goes with him to this quote unquote concert. The building
explodes and it's clear that V had something to do
with it. So the next day at work, she was
like a BBC adjacent but it's like a government controlled
TV network fake news, fake very fake news. I love
just really quick. I love the I forget what his

(21:33):
title was, but like the guy's TV shower just like
what like again, just fun futuristic production design. That's like
who is this for it? Like I have forty five
TVs that show the same channel in my shower, right, Yeah,
that was that was like such a and he would
just turn around and be four more TVs. It was great.

(21:54):
Oh that scene was a little crazy to me because
so EV's job is you can sort of assume like
a p A because someone asks her to get like coffee,
but then she also somehow has the clearance to access
that dude's like private office room because V uses her.
I d to like scanself into that, and it's like
she would not have that clearance. Yeah, but it's fine,

(22:17):
We'll ignore that. I was also going to say, and
I don't know if you ladies feel this, but it's
it's definitely different to watching the Trump era. Watching this
is actually a crazy movie to watch right now, especially
because I feel that this sort of like authoritarian government
already sort of is happening or could get much worse
in this movie any day. And that was the thing

(22:39):
I think when I first watched it when I was younger,
I was like, this is possible. I remember thinking that
this is something that could happen if people don't speak up,
if they don't because when I was I guess that's
the other thing is when I was younger, when I
was in my early twenties, used to be so much
more politically active. I would march with my with my friends.
My my friend she used to organize marches and protests
and now she's a civil rights lawyer and I used

(23:01):
to march with her and we would do all this ship.
And I remember like watching this movie and being like,
this is what could happen if we don't do anything.
And then now we're like in it. So it's interesting
to watch because people are now becoming informed, I think
through Trump. So I guess it's it's like, guys, we
got to avoid this ship right here. This is the
ship we're trying to avoid, you know. It's it didn't

(23:22):
feel as you know, alternative future as it as it
used to. Yeah, like you know five when it came out,
like you know, it feels like a possibility, but there
weren't quite as many direct parallels that, you know. Yeah,
it is a very bizarre movie to watch, even just
like with the way that the government treats it's people

(23:43):
where that felt I remember, I remember like when I
first saw it felt way more cartoony then it does
now and just yeah, just waiting for that curfew to
roll in. I mean, for me, it didn't feel cartoony
in the past because my parents came from a third
world government, Like I've been informed about this ship. So
for me, it was always like this could happen. So

(24:05):
for me, it was always this could happen, This could happen.
Now watching it was like, oh, this is happening, you know,
and like like going back to fake news, like that's
what's happening. It's so weird to watch in a movie
in a theatrical sense because you're like, this is how
these conversations are happening within our own government right now.
Not that it wasn't the same in the past. I'm
sure the government and the news were always working a

(24:25):
little bit side by side, but now it's like their
enemies because they're not all working together with the government,
and so it's like it's being exposed. It's so weird, man. Yeah,
I mean, I feel like Trump has like taken down
that fourth wall, you know, yeah, and trying to build
up another one between here in Mexico. But thanks, guys,

(24:46):
I'm here for the jokes anyway. So the next thing
that happens, he comes to the TV network, he plays
his message to all the people on the little tinny
c d oh yeah yeah, and then she helps and
saves him by macing the cop which Jame mentioned earlier.
He takes her and basically forces her to live with

(25:06):
him for a year, or that's the expectation at that point,
which we understand why he does that, otherwise she would
be grave danger or killed. But it's also like the
thing where it's like you are my prisoners sort of.
It's it's again, it's not to keep pulling it back
to family and the opera, but I mean it's like

(25:29):
a more justified, high stakes version of that story where
it's like it is for her safety, but there's but
he also gives it the option. It's true, like, yeah,
you can leave right she does and she does. Um,
I don't know their their relationship is something that It's

(25:49):
just like there were some points where I was like, Okay,
I get it, and then other points where I was like,
this does not bode well. I don't know. Well, well,
I was gonna say, before we get into this, I
was going to bring up the plan the year in
advance protests, whatever you wanna call it. I just found
it funny because when um Rose McGowan did the women
boycott Twitter thing, I was like, that's why it didn't work,

(26:11):
because a bitch don't plan the ship out like a
good protest or a good boycott. You need to let
everybody know. You need to like set a date, you
need all that it's happening. There needs to be some
build up so that there are some consequences that are severe.
This wasn't that like a next day. I found out
in the middle of what I was supposed to. That's
why I was so stupid. I mean it was I

(26:31):
was like, listen, bit, if you would have planned this
like next week, I'm getting up Twitter four a week,
then we could have all had that discussion. Women of
color could have been like, what the funk are you
talking about? And you know, we could have had those
arguments with each other or there's discussions with each other.
Um So I love that he's like in a year,
motherfucker's I'm a ride or die for this ship? Are you?
I'm bunkering down until it happens. But I love I

(26:54):
love that, and I love that. You know, the timeline
of the movie, I just everybody's you know, it's the Fall,
It's the and it builds well, it builds very well.
So the next thing that happens is that she essentially
tricks him into thinking that she wants to help, and
whether or not she actually wants to help maybe the case,
but she sort of uses it as a way to

(27:15):
try to escape, which is what happens where she's like,
I want to help. If there's anything I can do.
He's like, actually, you can dress up as a sex
worker and trick this and this is one of those
moms whereas like, ah, there, surely there was another way
to do that, but she yeah. So she then goes
to this bishop who's one of the people that V

(27:35):
is targeting to kill, and then she's all like, help
me I need protection. I'm evie him, and I'm a
prisoner of this terrorist. The bishop doesn't believe her. He
just proceeds with trying to rape her, and then he
comes in and kills him. I actually liked that scene
because I love that men are so perverted and fucked

(27:57):
up that women can use their sexuality against them, because
men are weak, and I wish them more women knew
how to manipulate that and into our favor, you know,
which is why I like them working side by side
to kind of take advantage of this man's weakness of
you know, wanting to fuck kids, and then they use
it against him and then he kills him, which is great. Yeah,

(28:20):
because I think sex workers should be looked at as
heroes in our society because they are doing the lord's work,
because men are pieces of ship. Um not all man
hashtag whatever funk off, but so many men are. Aristottle
is really nice. Everyone else he can say, he can
say everyone else, everyone. I just I just think that
sex workers are are looked down upon, and I love

(28:42):
that they kind of flipped it on its head of like, no,
they're going to use this against him, and it is
his inevitable downfall, and it's because men are weak. I
was feeling hard for for e V in that scene
because like, for a large trunk of the movie, and
and towards the end she's able to you know, she
has agency more in a way where she has more options,

(29:04):
but for for a lot of the movie, it's very
survival based decisions that she has to make of like
this is what I have to do to stay on
this person's good side so that I can remain safe,
or this is what I have to do so I
can remain alive or whatever. So like there's so much
going on in that scene of like she has I
don't know if I do. We we don't see that
discussion of like the plan of right, so we don't

(29:28):
know whose idea it is or like or anything like that.
Maybe that's in the book. I don't remember, but like
we see her do that, and it's like, Okay, this
was someone's idea. We don't know whose idea was. It
could have been EV's idea. But then you know, once
she's in that interaction with the bishop, she's placed a
fair amount of trust in his authority to help her
out and get her free of someone she's not yet

(29:51):
quite sure about, and then that backfires and he's a
fucking lecherous, evil creed and then he's killed rightfully. So
but in now she suddenly faced with this new dynamic
of like, now V knows that she doesn't really trust him,
and she just is like I'm sorry and like leaves
and it's like, I just that whole scene was so
stressful to watch, but it's just like she's just making

(30:14):
all these survival based decisions of like, Okay, that happened,
Now what do I do to remain safe? Yeah, but
that scene is good because it's a reminder to people
that they shouldn't trust people that are in power just
because they're in power. That's why I like that scene,
because I like that she puts faith in a bishop
because I think we all would think that would be

(30:35):
the thing to do with that moment, to be able
to trust, right. And then once you realize that's a mistake,
she runs because she was like, well, not who do
I trust? You know? And I do to your point,
I do like that She's always making these like last
minute decisions, but they keep kind of exposing who the
real weak people are in our society. Well, which is
why I like kind of hits for me that she

(30:57):
does end up trusting V by the I mean, and
there are other points that will get to but it
is sort of time and time again where she we
see her testing everything she's been taught and that is
unraveling and really the only consistent anything is the wanting
to keep her safe. Well, he's trying to make her strong.

(31:19):
I mean, that's what she says, and that when she's
first captured, because like, I wish I was stronger. I
wish I wasn't so weak. And you see his you know,
there's a shot of him where he kind of like
cox his head like, oh you do do you you
want to be stronger? I can make you stronger. A
lot of head cock acting had to do. Like it's
so funny about that movie is there's like these long

(31:40):
monologues and it's just a mask, and you're like, am
I really just watching a mask right now? Like no
emotion there, just it's all on the boy's But I
do I like that he just he sees it and
he almost like accepts the challenge of like, bitch, I
will make you the strongest, ye, I will make you
as strong as I am. And we are, Because at
first you're like, Okay, is she just saying that to
on his good side so that he'll trust him enough

(32:03):
for her to be able to leverage that into running away.
But then you also understand why she could very well
want that, because her sort of like main driving desire
in this movie ends up being like, I do want
to be stronger. I do want to be strong enough
to rise up and tear down this regime basically well,
and like learning about her background later exactly her parents

(32:24):
did and stuff. Yeah, because her parents were political activists
and her brother was killed in the St. Mary's virus outbreak,
which is one of the things that like the government
unleashed on its unpopulation to control its people, comparably, reasons
for her to actually want that are established. So I mean,
I think that was her journey in this movie is
a lesson impulsiveness, because even after she saves him and

(32:46):
spray paints dominic, the next morning, she's like, I don't
know why I did that. I can't believe I did that.
I don't know why I did that. Like she's questioning
the thing that she impulsively did. But it was the
right thing to do, you know, for her to save him,
but she's listly doubting herself and questioning herself because she
doesn't she's not thinking things through all the way because
then he says, like, is that what you think? And

(33:08):
that's the whole journey for her throughout the whole movie
until you know it gets to work it, which is
a compelling journey that we don't often see women go
through in movies. So that's cool because that's the thing is,
she's not making decisions based on her feelings for him.
She's making decisions based on what she thinks she wants
or doesn't want, or what's right or what's wrong for her.
That's what she's doing, right, And in a lot of ways,

(33:31):
I feel like she's for so long she is making
a lot of instinctive survival based us. And then by
the end she has more agency to the point where
like v literally puts the agency in her hands and like,
you decide whether this happens because you know the student
is ready right, right? And I like that because by

(33:51):
the end she genuinely does have a choice, and we
see from most of the movie her not really having
much of a choice, but she does have a choice.
That's the things. She always had a choice, It's just
that she didn't always think things through. That's why I
like her story, because she constantly had to make a decision,
and sometimes it was on a whim, right right, and
something that again, just like watching it in this particular

(34:14):
era right now is like there's a lot of fear
based decision making too, where I don't think I mean,
I don't remember specifically, but I don't think when I
first saw this movie I could as closely identify with like,
you know, it's like, why would she have this job
at the not BBC working for the people who are
oppressing her and everyone she knows. But then, you know,

(34:35):
when you have more of a real life applicable way,
it's like, oh, because she's afraid, Like look at all
these people. She's lost for these exact reasons, and it
does take a lot of inner strength to be able to,
you know, make a a antarchic decision. Right. So um, okay,
So now we're leading up to the part where she

(34:57):
goes to Gordon Dietrich's house and Dietrich is a friend
of hers and who hosts like weird Pratfall British like
Benny Hill's style satire show. What a weird fun scene
in the middle of that movie to watch that goofy
goofy broadcast that gets him murdered. Yeah. Wild. Well, then

(35:18):
that leads to what I find to be the most
unsettling part of the movie is that she so she
goes to Gordon Dietrich's house. She's under his care and
protection for a while. Step. Yes, he makes that episode crazy. Yeah,
it was cool that he was like defined, He's like, yeah,
we we threwout the censor proof script shot this one.

(35:39):
It gets him killed, He gets him black bagged by Creedy,
and then yeah, they find a Koran in his house
and that gets executed. And we also know he is
one of I believe to queer characters whose stories we
hear reference in this That's the other thing. This is
one of the first movies that we've discussed on this

(36:00):
podcast where there's a prominent character in the movie who
is queer. We do kind of well yeah, yeah, yeah,
the Valerie who we who we meet a little later.
So yeah, So, once Dietrich gets captured by Creedy, she
has to flee again, and then she gets captured almost immediately,

(36:20):
and we assume that it's also by Creedy's people. She's
in prison, she's locked in the cell. All of her
hair gets shaven off. This woman, Yep, you get the
more empowered you get in movies usually if you're it's
the rule. Yes. Anyway, So she gets captured, she's in prison,
she's tortured. We think it's from Creedy and all of

(36:42):
those guys. And in this process of her being imprisoned,
she loses her fear. She's like, you know what, I'm
not going to be an informant. I'm not going to
tell you where V is. You can funk off and
shoot me. And she learns story. Who we learned is
a character that was in the cell next V all
those years ago when he was imprisoned and being used

(37:03):
for these like biological experiments. That's also another moment I
bugged me because she was like, I'm writing this note
on toilet paper, and I'm like, that's a regular paper,
right toilet paper in that world, Like you can write
on his parchment. I know, it's like you're wiping her
ass with really nice parching. That was one of those
uh moments where she can use her idea together anywhere.

(37:26):
I'm like, all right, that's that's a stretch. But then
I sort of like then I was like, now, like Evie,
you're dumb because that's just a flaw and V's plan
of he had parchment and he's like you did you
really think that the parchment is toilet paper? And where
did she get a pen? Not discussed nice pen, great handwriting?
What was a pencil? Right? Yeah? Maybe either way that

(37:49):
was that was funny. Yeah, that was funny. I'm glad
we all agree on that. So once she is devoid
of fear, she gets let free and then she comes
into the room into literally in figuratively she's set free. Yes,
And then yeah, that scene where views like it was
me and it was like, um, real high level gas lighting.

(38:13):
Way to commit to gasoline. Yeah. Again, it's hard because
it's like you can look at that one level of
like yeah, that's high level psychological abuse. On the other end,
if we're looking at like the student teacher relationship in
the direst of times, I don't know. I mean, I
am sort of left floating in the wind on that

(38:35):
one because it worked, it didn't work, it worked, but
did the surely there was a better way means, But
I mean there's also there's something to be said about
I mean, the government killed her whole family, and that
is fucked up. And she didn't take it as the
government doing it to her. She took it as just like, well,

(38:55):
I guess I got to be scared, just like everybody else.
So she didn't become stronger after that happened, even though
I think she should have. And on the flip, Fee
is like, no, I'm going to do this to you
to make you stronger, because you are strong. And that's
I mean, like I said, you guys can throw anything
you want at man to make it work. But I mean,

(39:15):
that's the thing, is that going back to that the
quote of like people shouldn't be scared of the governments,
or government should be scared of our people, because that's
that it's a flip on that, you know, it's it's
him kind of exposing like you should have changed after
your parents were murdered and your brother was murdered. But
she got more scared and it shouldn't be because she
should know, like, you're gonna die one day, so you

(39:37):
should be strong no matter what. And so he just
kind of tortured her to be like basically, if you're government,
because that's the illusion, right, the government is doing this
to her and she finally can stand up to them
as before she couldn't, and then of course to find
out it's him, it's a total line funk for everybody, right,
And we do see her she has an appropriate because

(39:58):
she was just like oh good one like right well,
And this got me back to thinking about the other
kind of popular examples of the captor re educating the
captive for whatever reason. And this is again like a
movie where in most situations we see a captor holding

(40:19):
someone hostage and changing their way of thinking, but usually
pretty much for selfish reasons, pretty much for like I
want you to love me, so I'm going to keep
you in a room until you do. Where this there,
it's far more complicated, like and personally, I think that
this movie and story would work for me if there

(40:39):
wasn't a love story. There is, and that's fine too,
but like if this ended up being like the sort
of like and these two characters just have like an inseparable,
very intense bond that works for me too. But either way,
he's not holding her to make her fall in love
with him, and I think that that's the most common
male cap. You're holding a woman and so I love

(41:03):
Beauty and the Beast phantom. Yeah, so it's a similar situation,
but the end goal is very different where he's trying
to I guess more or less cure her of her
own fear. And so in that way, even though it
looks similar, the end goal is not really selfish. And

(41:25):
then and so it well, I mean it is his
revolution that he's trying to start, so it is like
a smidge selfish, but also she has every reason to
want to be a part of this revolution. She's a
good pick based on her. Yeah, it's it's tricky. It's tricky,
and I mean when they I mean you see the
world that they live in, like, of course you'd want

(41:47):
to tear that down and not live in that regime.
So the sticks are high, and it does stand a
reason why all these characters would want to dismantle this
horrible government. So and not to just say like, hey,
here's the thing that this movie could have done wrong
but didn't, But there's like a lot of I feel
like easy bad writing things that could have been in

(42:09):
here in terms of like maybe there's another guy that's
very common in like these capture situations where there's a
guy on the other side who's like fighting to try
and find her and save her, and she doesn't have that,
like she has whoever mumbly grumbly British police guy that
she ends up with is. But he's not trying to
help her, right Like, there isn't anyone trying to save

(42:31):
her really like and you can even argue V's not
really trying to save her as much as get her
to where he thinks she needs to be, well, where
she wants to be. She says it right, right, but
but it's tricky, and I mean he is sneaky about
of course have to, right, you kind of have to.
It's tricky. You can't just tell someone be stronger, stronger,

(42:53):
fight the government. It's you know, to imprison them for
a few weeks first, Like but do you have to?
That's the question A struggle you can like where it
was there another way maybe not, but like he just
knew through his experience it worked for him. That was
like that's all he has to go on. Yeah, it's
true because in some ways that you do see him

(43:14):
kind of sculpting her in his vision based on his
own past. And again it's like dire times. But I
mean he knows how like painful, and you know, like
he is actively making that choice to cause someone he
cares about pain, and that is something that I don't mean,
I don't know, it's open to interpretation. Yeah, because he

(43:36):
says something like, um, you don't understand how hard that
was for me to do. But every time I saw
you resist, like I knew I had to keep going
like she was like on the brink, and then he
just had to push it a little bit further. It
is and it is very gaslighting because he I mean,
that's the most elaborate gaslighting we've ever seen. He knows
the high kind would have. Who is funding him because

(43:57):
he's playing all these different characters. He's got all these
different costumes, he's changing his voice around. Who's donating to
his Patreon apparently has all those he has all those masks.
He has the resources to something. He said something like
he clears the tracks and lays more of it. He
lays subway tracks ten years. Yeah, like where where is

(44:19):
he getting his wealth? That's another weird trope with this
setup though, of like the captor somehow has unlimited resources.
They always live in a castle. They live something some
some subterranean palace, and they're like, I have a lot
of money, don't ask. It's gonna look nice. The letting
is going to be low. It's gonna be nice. I

(44:40):
have a TV, but I also have candles. V's room
is kind of a library. She's surrounded by all those
books and Belle and beauty. The Beast loved the library.
There's a lot of symmetry here. There's a lot. I
was gonna say to going back to um, you mentioned
that you didn't like that there was like a romance
storyline and you could have done without it. So yeah, yeah,
h My civil rights lawyer friend when I was like, oh, look,

(45:03):
because I think I was had the book or I
had the mask or something in my room, and she
saw it and she's like, oh, do you like the movie?
I was like, oh, I love that movie. I was like,
you don't like as a political activist, like you don't
like this movie. She was like, it's a good movie.
She was like, except for him torturing her, like for love,
I have too much experience with that within civil rights organizers.
She was like, the men are like that, where like
they torture you and torture you, and they're really like

(45:25):
of course the men in in you know, activism are
sucked up too, But she was like, there's too many
parallels in my real life. Was like, you think that
these men are like doing the right thing, but you
know when it comes to the women, they're not. So
when she told me, and she told me this like
a few weeks ago, so I was like, I watched
it differently a little bit with that in mind, of like, damn,
I didn't think about it as torturing for her love, right,

(45:49):
you know. And it's yeah, I don't know. I mean,
that's super interesting to hear, I mean, and unfortunate that
those dynamics exist even in like the most noble of professions.
And of course, of course, but they're people are still people.
People are still people. People will still be sucking up
no matter what they're living is. But yeah, I don't know,
Like I think that adding in the love story, like

(46:13):
it isn't out of nowhere. It makes sense that you know,
like he is at the end of even though he's
representing this idea, he is a person. And that's I
feel like what the opening and closing lines of this
movie speak to where she's like, it's basically the man
behind it, like the individual affected. You can't kiss an
idea idea, but you can kiss a man and a

(46:36):
man it's who I miss, right, which which I was.
I was like rolling my eyes a little bit. I
don't know. I have kissed an idea before. I've had
I've had people kiss me because I'm an idea to them.
So that's what that's what's been frustrating. Yeah, oh yeah.
And then and then when that wears off and you're like,
I'm a person, They're just like, oh, actually cannot cannot

(46:57):
exactly if you're a person. I have to like it's like, great,
see you exactly. Oh god, I'm gonna have a sesut. Anyways,
I did want to mention the Shawshank redemption moment in
this movie where she goes out into the rain and
she puts her hands up and she's like, also, I'm free,
super silly two thousand five c G. I rain shot

(47:19):
like a blue just like it was super super silly.
It was a great sound effect. It's a little fully
you see, you're like the vantage point of the rain
falling on sure, great love it. And then he's starting
there with his arms folded like fucky, it's raining, it's cool.

(47:41):
The love story, it just you know, like you can
you can draw the parallel to their very obvious age difference,
just based on their discussions of he's clearly significantly older
than her and also like, I don't know, those were
just like the parts of the movie that interested me
the least, where that scene where it's like, I know,
we have to and an audience have to be kept

(48:02):
in like, oh, but he's also an individual. So that
scene where you know, you see the mask be thrown
off and he's like, oh, he punches the mirror, right,
very fan of the opera punching a mirror peak fit
about I don't know. I think I would have enjoyed
watching her fun his burned dick. That wasn't what was going, Like,

(48:23):
I rod dog and that ship? Are you crazy? I
was wondering about some freak nasty ship. That's what I
was waiting for the whole time. There's a few different
scenes where have like he's rope like like a rope
where like in theory, if he had a direction, you'd
probably be able to tell can we see that shot?
We can't. We can't. We really wanted to see that
burned meat that we should watch the Also, this is

(48:51):
written by the god who the Matrix and the last
the last fight scene was another one where I was
like Jesus Christ, where there's a few Matrix shots like
a fring and you're just like, okay, called down, we
get it. We saw the movie in two thou five.
That was the coolest thing I'd ever seen that. But
you saw The Matrix and ninety nine it's a little different.

(49:13):
But yeah, I remember I was in the theater. I
think I sawed this with JT. And we just looked
at each other and we're like, this is the best
movie I've ever seen. I did a guy once. He goes,
what's your favorite movie? I said, for Vendetta, and I sup,
what's your first movie? He said The Matrix and I
was like, oh, I've never seen it. And he goes, well,
just so you know, V for Vendetta is the woman
version of the Matrix. And that's what I mean by that.

(49:34):
He's a asshole, that's what he meant by that. Yeah,
that's like and then yeah, and then I just recently
watched The Matrix for the first time and I was like,
what that doesn't make this doesn't make sense. But I
just dated an asshole like I always do. But that
doesn't check out. It doesn't check out at all. It doesn't.
And I couldn't argue because I hadn't watched it. Yeah,
and I was like, oh my god, like took me

(49:55):
down a notch. And I was like, oh no, I'm
just another girl. And I was like, oh no, he's
just another dickad Yeah. Yeah, Well, if you're listening, funk
right off, you're dead wrong. Oh no, he's our biggest fan.
Oh um. Can we talk about some of the other
female characters, and by that I mean there are very few.

(50:15):
One of them is the Corner. Oh yeah, she's a
woman in Stem. She has a woman in Stem, and
she's the only one of the people that V goes
after who shows any sort of like compassion and regret
and sorrow for what she did all the other ones
and receives the same in return, which I thought was nice,

(50:36):
where she does not die the painful death that most
she has to die, and like, I get like, she
has to die according to the plan, but he kind
of cuts her a break where he's like, Jesse, you know,
you're basically dead and she's like, oh, that didn't hurt
at all, thank you, thank you so much. I'm sorry.
I liked that. I thought that was like responsibly. And

(51:02):
then the other notable female character is Valerie. She's only
ever met in flashbacks, but she's the person who is
in the cell next to v whenever he was imprisoned
at lark Hill. Yeah, we learned of her story. She
is a lesbian. She came out to her parents, they
disowned her. She started a career as an actress, she

(51:23):
met like the love of her life, and then it
was around that time that the government started targeting LGBT
people Muslims, basically detaining them for just Trump right, and
even prior to that, being that high stake of a situation,
she was disowned by her own family and and still
was unapologetic about who she was, which is like so

(51:45):
cool and also heartbreaking to see the consequences of it. Yeah, totally,
But those are like the two main female characters. Besides,
and then I was like, oh, why why are there
more women in this movie? And then I thought about
it and I was like, Okay, well, most of the
bo in this movie are either government officials or law
enforcement because that's what the story calls for, and none

(52:07):
of those people would probably be women because this is
a society where they wouldn't hire women design. Yeah, there
are certainly opportunities for more speaking female rolled at least,
But then when we see those like long montages of
like when v is on screen on TV or even
when people are watching the Stephen Fries Goofy thing, we

(52:29):
see I mean there there's women in homes, there's women
and bars are there. They are there's a little girl
with the glasses. So they are present in the society.
They're just almost never in positions of power, which makes
sense with this It's normally that would bother us, I
think in a movie, but in this movie, the integral
to the story, right, Yeah, there's no Avanka. Trump's the

(52:54):
two female characters that we see in detail at least
who are not Evy. I feel like almost offer the
two paths that Evie could end up on, where it's
like the woman who does end up getting pretty high
up in government or in her field in medicine, but
with the past that's like she was like I thought
about killing myself, she changed her name, she tried to

(53:14):
flee the country, like she was guilty, guilty, but then
also scared, like he was saying, like she succumbed to
the fear and then just stopped. I mean, that was
the reason she continued to work, because she was like,
what else am I gonna do? They're gonna kill me
or I'm gonna have to live in anonymity? Um, and
why why would she do that? It's also like, of
course the women are compassionate most I would say, most

(53:37):
women are not not all women hashtag you know what
I mean, Like, those women definitely exist when they're attempted
with power, but I think more often than not, it's
just it's not as common as it is with men
in power. Yeah, it was. It was cool to you know,
first see that this woman who rose very high in

(53:57):
her field but dies with regrets because she didn't stand
up for the right thing. And then Valerie who always
stands up for the right thing and is punished and
basically killed for it. Yeah, that's a great point. Yeah,
it's a great point. I don't think about that. You're
so smart. That's my next I know, But I mean,
and the moment of silence for a brilliant but they're

(54:21):
that scene between v and I'm sorry. What was the
doctor's corner? The corner she was a name um Delia surage.
That moment between them seemed, I mean, and for V,
who's generally pretty violent towards people who sucked with him,
was like a good character moment for him too, because
you're just like, what was that line where she's just like,

(54:42):
is it too late to stay sorry? And he's like, no,
he can do. She actually sings that song too late?
Is it now to say sorry? That's what goes from
my head were to a very different people, kit she
just does a quick mash up V like cool, here's
a flower goodbye. Yeah. I do like that. I do

(55:05):
like that she apologizes, and I do like that he's
open to it. I mean, I think people should be, yeah,
you know, if you want to, if you're trying to
grow and contribute to the greater good of society. And
I think he's like giving her a gift there too,
where it's like, you know, she's dying with regret, but
it's probably when you're dying with all that regret, useful

(55:25):
to be able to at least express that to someone
who you've wrong. And it's also sweet that he's using
her flowers. He's like, I've been growing your flowers. I
love your flowers. I think your flowers are great. I
think that you were capable of being something better as
a botanist. Also her diary that she deliberately gets out
and leaves behind so that someone will find it, and

(55:46):
luckily it falls in the hands of she wanted me
to habit. But he leaves it because he doesn't care.
He doesn't care about the story. Um. But then Finch
gets ahold of it, and then he he's a party member.
He's right under Sutler. But you can tell throughout the
movie he's having he's questioning all these things about the government.
He's having my favorite movie Doubt. He brings some doubt

(56:09):
shout out to Doubt, and then it's honestly the worst
podcast I've ever done. No, no, I'm sorry ahead. So um,
he gets ahold of it, he learns all this information
that I think informs his doubt, and then by the
end he's totally on. I mean, he like holds a

(56:29):
gun on TV. But then he's like, yeah, you're right,
we should go up this building. So like, if I
think it weren't for that, he wouldn't be so on
the right side of the revolution. Yeah, I mean, I
definitely like that. He read it and was like, oh, ship,
this is what happened. These fucking fool This government is
sucked up, like he's starting to see like he works

(56:50):
for the police. But and I do like that because
it is possible for people to have the right perspective
in these situations if you're informed and if you have
even believe But yeah, it was I like that. I
like that to change his mind because he was always teetering, right,
you know, that's where the curiosity was coming from. It
doesn't make sense. Why the funk would this, A, B

(57:11):
and C be leading to this? And and then he
starts getting these answers and he's like, oh man, and
that's why him and Eve end up together because she
fucking fills him in. And he was like, oh, yeah,
she sucks his dick, but dick, so like, what's the point, right,
That's why I always ain't burnt, But he he ain't

(57:32):
turned a little T shirt into it for Vendetti's shirt.
Just a guy fox, it's a tongue hanging out like
all right, he and he have the same outlook. On coincidence, though,

(57:55):
where there is no such thing as coincidence, only the
illusion of coincidence, which I love that actually going back
to there are no coincidences, my dad's funeral being on
November five, after the fact, it opened my eyes because
it wasn't until my dad passed away that I actually
believed that. It wasn't until he passed away that everything
kind of led up to him passing away and my life,

(58:17):
my life made more sense, not just the future, but
also the past. So then when I rewatched the movie,
I was like, oh, fuck, it's true for me. And
even though I didn't really believe that when I first
watched the movie, it definitely changed. And then I was like, yeah,
of course his funeral is on November five because there
are no coincidences, And for me, it definitely rang true,

(58:38):
like even more so now than it did in the past,
I think, and I and that almost feels like a
more like I don't know, like that seems like a
more optimistic because to me, like saying that there is
no coincidence just opens everything to there's no order, where
I feel like, yeah, we was like vas this anarchist figure,
but he also doesn't think that there's no so there

(59:00):
is some sort of greater something at work which is
nice and and feels optimistic romantic. Yeah, yeah it is.
That's a real romance. It's a little hot. I remember
seeing the movie for the first time and seeing the kiss,
which when she hit the first and I was like,
what a weird choice for that to happen. And now

(59:21):
I'm like, I get it. I get it. Yeah, now
I understand lot of you guys, I don't. I don't.
I don't need it, but I get it. But I
get it. I mean, listen, I've kissed a lot of
dudes are dead inside, so I get like emotionally burned Victyeah,
that's what it was like, I've done that. Yeah, I'm

(59:43):
into emotional burn victims. Pretty chill. I think that it's
it's weird because there is like a lot of gendered
stuff in this movie and a lot to talk about,
but it's almost overshadowed by the medical nature of this story.
And so it was like, I don't know, it was

(01:00:04):
this was like a really interesting, challenging thing to watch,
similar to how like when we talked about get Out,
it was like not a movie that necessarily treats women well,
but that's okay, because what is the real focus of
the movie, right, Yeah, So yeah, I have a lot
of complicated feelings about be for Vendetta because you know,
you can sort of boil things down to like he
imprisons her, he tortures her, he gaslights her, dada. But

(01:00:28):
that's a little too simple or simple it is, right,
So it is a very interesting movie to discuss so ourselves.
Thank you for bringing it to us. It's my it's
my pleasure. Let's discuss whether or not it passes the
Bechtel test with the it does, does it? It was like,
it's sort of there's one exchange where you're like, so,

(01:00:50):
there's right. There is a scene where a woman whose
name we don't ever find out, so that right away
does not pass the back to test, but she does
talk to Evie. Uh. They're watching sort of the news coverage,
the fabricated news coverage of the blowing up of the
bailey on TV, and she's like, do you believe that
load of bullocks? There was no bloody demolition. I saw it.

(01:01:12):
Did you see it? And Evie is like no, last
night I was like, She's like, oh, that's right. You
went to see Daddy Dietrich, do you like my British taxing?
You guys? So they talked about a man like after
three lines, and we don't know her name, so that
does not pass. But then a woman comes in and
she's like, Evie, there you are. You are still working
for me, aren't you? Sorry? Patricia, so we know her name,

(01:01:34):
and then Patricia says, I need two espressos and three
coffees from downstairs, and Dietrich is ready for his tea.
I would say that even though Dietrich comes in at
the end those first two lines where I thought I
was going to pass and I was looking forward to
being like, this is a fun one. But because I
didn't remember, I thought that Evie may have written back

(01:01:56):
to Valerie and that would have been like where it
wasn't a vocal exchange, that that was like that we've
been cool, but she doesn't know. She doesn't where she
going to get parchment to wipe her ass with, you
know there. So there's another scene right after that where
two women talk again. Evie talks to the costume woman
and she like brings in all those boxes that have

(01:02:18):
the masks and costume and he's like, what's all that?
And he was like, not sure. They've just arrived mock
for stage three and costume and he's like, must be pro.
So again she brings up a man and then she's like,
I wish someone had the balls to tell him the
station and just playground. And then she opens a box.
She's like, well so this then very British. Real quick question,

(01:02:42):
is Natalie Portman's accent bad or good? I think not
very good? Not good? Right? I don't know. There's I
sort of kept forgetting because there were points in the
movie I'm like, oh, yeah, everyone in this movie is British,
including Natalie Portman. I sort of forgot well VA's voice
to kind of there are certain points where I'm like,
don't just have a thicker accent, which is weird because

(01:03:03):
he is British and it still sounds weird because it's
all over the place. Who's who? What's the name of
the actor who plays be in this movie? He's like, yeah,
he's also in the Matrix Agent Smith. He's a Walkoski fave.
Uh So, whether or not the movie passes the Bechdel test,
I guess for like a second, whenever Patricia comes in

(01:03:24):
and she's like, you are still working for me, aren't you?
And she says, sorry, I want to give it to
the I like, technically, I think it's a no, but
I want but just for the sake of I don't
think that this movie is like bad for womankind. I
want to give it a pass. I don't know. This
isn't this isn't precise. Yeah, let's just say it does

(01:03:47):
for a split second, which I think is accurate. Does
the Bechtel tests have a time some I think some
variations of it say like it has to happen for
this amount of time. I don't, but don't We just
say technically it's too lines of dialogue between two female
characters with names, which again is a very low bar, right,
And I think under that rule it passes. And it's

(01:04:09):
the third line of dialogue where they start talking about
a guy. Right, It's still not great, but I'm going
to give the pass. I want to give it a pass. Yeah,
I think I think it's okay. I think it it
Legit passes under our rules. So you just get five
good going. So let's write the movie on our nipple scale,
where we write the movie on its portrayal of women

(01:04:30):
on a scale of zero to five nipples. We've got
some burnt nipples in the name this time five crispy
nipples are very scorched. Um. I'm going to give it.
This is real tough for me because I still don't
really know how I feel about how he treats her

(01:04:54):
by imprisoning her and gaslighting her and torturing her as
a means to end. I mean, free room and board
would be nice. True, No, rent a year. I didn't
think I was cooking for her to her did her
roommate first of all, if she has a roommate, did
they just get a sub letter? Like? I don't think
she's seemed like she lived in a studio. I feel

(01:05:16):
like shed Okay, that's what it felt like. Oh God,
I is it like? Is it a three? I don't know.
I have no idea how to write this movie. I
was going to say, like four. If I don't know,
I mean ultimately an arbitrary system, right, No, this is important.

(01:05:37):
I'll jump thing. I'll say three and a half. Tricky
movie where we see a lot of women, we don't
hear a lot of women. But that's also the exact
nature of the government being portrayed in regards to women.
It's tricky. I think that in Evy we have like
a really awesome challenging the aughtful. I mean, the few

(01:05:58):
women that are in are all have depth right, right,
and they're all given I think, like a fair amount
of thought by this story, and they're past and thoughts
have action and implications on the story. And I mean
I think we have three very strong female characters in
this movie, um and too strong gate characters. True. Yeah,

(01:06:19):
very white movie, extremely white, Like they're that last thing
where everyone's taking off their masks and it's white people.
It's just like especially happen until two thousand and five.
I mean, but can the same apply when we were like, oh,
women wouldn't be in positions of I feel like a
country like this under this sort of regime would have

(01:06:40):
tried to push out people of color are getting pushed out.
So I mean, that's what I mean, and I think
that's part of why. Like that was the thing when
I watched movies and television as I was growing up
and as a team, it was like I actively stopped
watching things that were too white unless they made sense.
And this is one of those movies where I was like,
it makes sense and also the women were all very interesting.

(01:07:03):
They were Yeah, I think I think that it's good
and I agree with what you're saying of like some
of the stuff, some of the dynamics between V and
E V are not easy to watch and are subjective
in challenging, and I think we'll affect different people in
different ways. Yeah, because I mean, I can imagine, you know,
if you've been in a really gasl idea abusive relationship
and you're watching that, that would be like very triggering.

(01:07:27):
I would imagine. Sure, But in the story, I feel
like it does justify itself. I don't know. I'll say
three and a half and I'll give my nippies. I'll
give two scorched nippies back to v rest in Paradise, Baby,
I'll give nipple to Natalie, and then I'll give my
lass half nippy to Valerie. She was cool, all right,

(01:07:52):
I'm gonna go with three. And I'm surprised by this
because I still love this movie and I and I
you know, like I said, I loved it so time
ago to the point where I was like I should
get a tattoo about it, but not too late. It's
a tattoo Parliament. But rewatching it through this sort of
new lens, I was like, oh wow, there's a lot

(01:08:12):
of weird stuff that happens to this female character, and
it does feel like she doesn't have all that much agency,
especially toward the beginning of the movie, and later on
she does to the extent where she's the one who
literally pulls the trigger on the train that ends up
blowing up the house of the Parliament. Super satisfying to watch. Yeah,
Oh my god, that was the music and the explosion.

(01:08:32):
I was like, yeah, but um, at the same time,
we do have a very complex female character who goes
on sort of this incredible arc that women are often
aren't afforded in movies. So that was really cool to watch.
So yeah, I'm gonna stick with three and my nipples

(01:08:53):
belong to Dietrich Stephen fry To specifically in that scene
in the movie. So many like takes with him going
what like, he does not have a huge part in that.
It's just really funny, It's right, Um, And then they
I'll give the other one to Finch because I like

(01:09:15):
his character arc as well. Yeah, Um, I don't know, Actually,
I guess I'd have to give a nipple to each woman.
Okay three yeah, so three yeah Natalie, Yeah in the
corner corner. Yeah, I love that character named the corner. Cool.
Well more so, thank you so much for having me
said this was like, this was a tough one, in

(01:09:36):
a in a good way. What what discourse we've had
here today? I think I think it's an imbordt movie,
especially now I encourage people to watch it. I think
that not enough people have believed that their governments are
corrupt as deeply as they are, and that they can
get worse. I mean, it's it's happening to us right now. Um,
they've always been corrupt, but this movie is kind of

(01:09:58):
more relevant now than every totally. It's it's I mean
for the United States. Yes, it's it's interesting to watch
and and I also like that the United States gets
a shout out in the beginning of the movie. Yeah,
well yeah, we're like the US is having a civil
the second Civil War. They call it the former United States,
Like yeah, this, which was to me, I was like,

(01:10:20):
oh my god, this is right now. That was like
that like newscast segment, because like when it came out,
I would have I would have been like, oh, that's silly.
That's not possible. And now I'm like, no, that's it's
it's on its way. And it was still like w
Bush era when this movie came, we were divided like
like we are now. I mean that's why United we

(01:10:40):
Stand was so popular because everybody was like, yeah, that
is true, we should stand united. Now it's like no
division is in right and the like slogan of the
UK and the for Vendetta is strength through unity, unity
through faith either a lot of buzzwords, no thought being encouraged.

(01:11:01):
Alan Moore is somewhere right now, just like like rubbing
his hands together like I told you and you got us,
You got us good, You're right me and is not royalties. Yeah,
thank you so much again for where people follow you
online at Marcella Comedy dot com. That's all of my
social media, Marcella two ls. So hit me up, holler

(01:11:23):
at a bitch who You can follow us at bectol
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(01:11:45):
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What a time to be dead? What a time to
look forward to? Shout out to flatliners, Today is a
good day to die. Always got to send a shout out, Um,

(01:12:09):
thanks for listening. Bye,