November 6, 2024 • 31 mins
In this edition of Here We Go ATrend…, Jack and Miles discuss the results of last night's presidential election.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello the Internet, and welcome to this episode of podcast
where we cover the race for People's Sexiest man uh
(00:22):
and what What's gonna What's coming from the grammy noms? Uh?
Now this is uh, this is the first episode we're
recording after the election result. My name is Jack O'Brien.
That over there is Miles Gray.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
A bad result for the Democrats last night in the election.
A bad result I would say for the future of
America because we are going to get a new version
of fascism that reaches new depths that I don't think
(00:59):
we've seen or like we've never imagined yet. But so
I think there's a lot of pain and anguish. Certainly
I'm feeling a lot of that.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
I the the polling that I was using as copium
heading into the election, the cells Are poll that I
think a lot of.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
I sniffed too much of that cells Are.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Yeah, I mean yeah, I mean I think for anyone listening,
it's it's too early to begin really like parsing through
the why of it in terms from like the how
who voted how. I think the bigger picture has been
clear just about how liberals then liberalism have this is
like it's like policing. It's like a failed project that's
(01:57):
not rendering the results, and in fact is only you know,
I think, rather than being like they fumbled with the
messaging or these other things, they're just larger material life
issues that have gone that went completely unaddressed, especially during
the Biden administration. That I think opens people up to
being like, well, definitely not this while not considering what
(02:18):
the alternative is. And some people absolutely did consider the
alternative and fully embrace it. I mean, I look at
the results, just even in California with some of the
Ballait propositions that went through, like being like, yeah, let's
keep like incarcerated people in a form of slavery, like
let's uphold that norm. Let's also add some more severe
punishments to very small crimes. So I mean, broadly, there
(02:44):
was a yeah, there's a lot is changing demographically, but yeah,
all that to say, I mean, I think I'm just completely,
like partially just like yeah, but I almost like fucking I'm
like pissed that I even allowed myself to me too.
Here's the thing we always, at least for me personally, right,
(03:09):
like elections and things that happen in politics.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
I'm always kind of like, all.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Right, America, like, let's see how fucked up we are
and how much we're not seeing the bigger picture. And
watching those results I think was just a grim reminder
of the fact that this country like has and always
will be this sort of same thing, which is foundationally
like the sort of the white supremacist capitalist patriarchy.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
And despite the.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Vibrations that abound, at the end of the day, fundamentally
that's kind of like where we sort of end up
sliding back to without any especially when we're.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Not offering people something truly truly different.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Because that's so allergic to offering something that is actually
substantive and progressive in a fundamental way.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
If capital isn't centered, then it's that's absolute anathema to
these people.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Yeah, I mean there were like Rashida Tali one reelection
with seventy seven percent of the vote, Ilhan Omar one
reelection with seventy five percent of the vote. Because they
have convictions, and their convictions don't align with sort of
the liberal order that's represented by the mainstream media, and
(04:24):
so they're treated as unpopular those convictions, but they're not
unpopular with people, They're unpopular with the media. Some progressive
policies did okay on ballot measures in places that you
wouldn't expect them to, protecting abortion rights, raising the minimum wage,
like in Missouri, where people voted for Trump like hard
(04:47):
and went hard for Trump, they voted for abortion rights
and increasing the minimum wage paid sickly, and then they
also voted for Donald Trump by a landslide. It really
feels like the thing that didn't do well well is
the mainstream Democratic Party. And then I would say also
the mainstream media is sort of narrative around the election,
(05:08):
just didn't didn't resonate with people, but really like the
strategy of changing convictions based on what they thought was
going to be the most convenient for them electorally. Yeah,
like they continue to treat politics as a game that
they act like we don't know they're playing.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Right, you know, And it's so clear, right like the
pandering from from like Democrats, this like sort of neoliberal
set and courting people on the right shows already that
values are negotiable, you know, if you're if you're suddenly.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Like, yeah, you know what I'm actually I'm actually.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
For something more like a severe form of immigration control,
and you waiver on those things, then we can't reasonably
expect them to deliver on those things if those values
are not set and they're not pore value like the values.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Are just interchangeable.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
They're they're transactional, and they haven't really delivered. So as
they move to the right to court those people on
the right, you get you get the base of people
who've been supporting Democrats who feel cheated and they're like.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
What the fuck, why are they going on? What the
fuck is what's over there? I thought this ship was
about what we're doing over here.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
And then the people on the right see the Democrats
coming towards them, and they're like, oh, these people are
just they fucking say whatever. Man, Like, yeah, I'm not,
I'm not, I'm sure, but at like the Republicans have
been saying the same shit forever, basically, just at louder
volumes from time to time, and yeah, I again, I'm
(06:45):
just like, I'm very this is again. This is the
first time I'm taught like we're talking about this, so
forgive me, because my thoughts are like all over the place.
I'm very concerned about the future for younger people I'm
very concerned about trans people.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
I'm very concerned about immigrants.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
I'm very I'm just generally a lot of things become
very very existential, like very.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Quickly just thinking about this presidency.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Yeah, and I think I think immediately what people are
probably going to experience first is more.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Just like the neglect of the government.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Like it's not so much as like people are going
to be coming for people, more so that no one
gives a fuck about you is probably I feel like,
probably like the first phase of what this is all
going to feel like, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
And then the coming for you I think will yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
At a certain point, because I think the lack of
social safety nets, the just destruction of public education, public health,
and things like that are going to manifest in these
other sort of chaotic ways that we're all going to.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Have to deal with.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
The one thing that I am thinking of is that
what is clear is we have to now, first of all, motherfuckers,
Brunch is canceled forever.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Forever is over.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
Brunch is dyed h and we have to really think
about too. I think one thing is that it was
easy to just be like, oh, yeah, you know what,
maybe calm won and it just like kind of just
slow down the rot and won't have to really really
have to take radical action to help other people. But
I think now with Trump in the White House is
(08:23):
that that's becoming very real. And that's how I'm kind
of trying to figure out what how I'm going to
feel good is that people are going to need help
because it's not going to come from the places that
it usually does. And this hopefully can reinforce our sense
of community and connection to each other to one And
that's such a fucking three million foot altitude take right now.
(08:45):
But that's about as much as I can articulate at
the moment, just given how fucking just wild this whole
situation is.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Yeah, I do, Yeah, I mean, I mean, like some
of the early electoral data suggests that like the places
that Harris gained was like only with people who earned
over one hundred thousand dollars, but then she lost. It
(09:17):
really feels like when you have two neoliberal like options,
and you know, I think the Republican Party and the
first Trump administration kind of fits into that category where
like it feels like there's this establishment system that is
consistently resisting any sort of political or institutional action that
(09:42):
would benefit people. You know, in any consistent way, you're
going to consistently have a situation where whoever the party
is that's in power is going to have a massive disadvantage,
and especially if they like it's just all the shit
(10:07):
that we were saying all along with like that that
seemed wild about like Harris being like, I can't think
of a single thing I would have done differently, and
not like running away from the Biden administration in any way,
you know, radical centrism, trying to like make friends with
the Republicans, you know, by like being friends with Liz
(10:30):
and Dick Cheney. Like the consistency or lack thereof really
feels important to voters now. And they did, like they
did the exact opposite that they did. They like there
there were New York Times articles like written approvingly about this,
(10:52):
like social media strategy on the Democratic parties.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Well yeah, they they turned up every lever except the
one that was going to bring meaningful, material change to
people's everyday lives.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
It's like, well, we're not gonna I mean, we're not
going to try and figure out how to like you know,
give people better financial support or augment like a child
tax credit or those kinds of things, or really implement
an affordable housing plan.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
It just became like, what.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
If we got the Avengers on a zoom call on
GOOTV Monday and that maybe, well, that's how we can
just squeak out a victory. What if we completely ignore
the fact that we had so much polling around disarming
Israel or not at least continuingly to continuing to happily
(11:44):
arm Israel while they're in the midst of a genocide,
when the polling clearly indicated you would gain more people
by adopting that policy, but they said, well, we only
lose five percent if we don't, you know, and they're
looking at numbers like that and expecting they just wanted
they just they were like, let's just put our fucking
(12:04):
head down and just get through this thing and maybe
scaring the shit out of people enough about trumpet work,
and that clearly spectacularly failed. And there's like, and you
just look at how much of a vote vanished for Democrats.
I mean, I see people who are like, what happened
all these votes? Like something's not right. I think people
were clearly been like, what the status quo is fucking bullshit.
(12:28):
And and right now, unfortunately the Biden administration, along with
Kamala Harris is they are in the driver's seat for
the status quo.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
So for most people, I think, without even thinking too,
I'd be.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Like, well, I'm not voting for this, and I'm not
sure what this will bring, because I'm I'm sure most
people don't know what this will bring. And that's the
other part that really is just the freaky and sad.
And yeah again, we're truly we are in the midst
of a very interesting period for American history for sure,
(13:03):
like this, yes, this is this is something we've never
this is something we've never seen, and yeah, well we
will have to figure out how to how to manage it.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
There was this New York Times article about their social
media strategy where they were just like test out a
bunch of things, see what works. I think I remember
things like that in the twenty twelve Obama re election campaign.
I know I remember that being specifically a strategy with
the Clinton administration where it was weather. They would call
it weather ballooning messaging and seeing, how you know, focus
(13:34):
group testing and you just like release this cloud of
political nanobots trying to win this imaginary game they still
think they're playing, and I'm sure they're like there will
be examples where they did like talk about, you know,
economically helping people, but it was like one of a
(13:57):
thousand messages that they were putting out and there was
no conviction. And also we saw that the Biden administration,
you know, at several kind of high leverage moments where
like Biden threw up his hands, I was like, guys,
I'm trying over here. I just like can't do anything.
I'm only the president of the United States. Like those
(14:19):
are moments that I think stuck with people, and it
really feels like the exact opposite, Like consistency of message
and of values and being able to stick to a
central message is incredibly important. Now It's what drove like
the nobody saw coming Sanders campaign. Like we talked about
(14:44):
how like Trump when he came to power, there was
like all this, you know, the people who saw him
coming were like, there's just appetite for an anti establishment
pick and being the establishment and just frantically trying to
say whatever it is you think people want to hear
(15:04):
from you. Is like the exact opposite of what is
going to resonate with people. Yeah. So yeah, that's kind
of where I'm at with like how we got here,
Let's take a quick break and we'll come back and
(15:31):
we're back. Yeah. I retweeted this video from David Graeber, like,
you know, he died in twenty twenty, but just talking about, oh.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Like the failings of liberalism.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
Yeah, just like the radical centrism. Yeah, of like you know,
he talked about how Obama, and I think this extends
to Clinton, they were basically people who became popular because
they were charismatic enough to make it seem like they
believed in something. You just had all the gestures and
(16:04):
the aesthetics of a movement, you know, like we had
the Obama poster, we had you know, there was just
but then they ultimately don't deliver on that, and you
ultimately end up like making I don't know, like that
that has to be damaging to the overall brand of
(16:25):
the Democratic Party when they keep appropriating the images of
the ideals of progressive politics and then you know, not
not delivering on it. So yeah, I mean this is
all like long term problems that I think a lot
of people have been identifying for a long time. But
(16:45):
I do think all of these different strands are coming
back and taking a giant shit on their faces totally.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
It's yeah, like it's just yeah, I don't know, man,
I really don't. I mean I I historically we've just
we see the pattern play out over and over and
over again, and we just absolutely, you know, unfortunately, because
all of the power is concentrated at the top, just
are learning zero lessons.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
And that's really frustrating from just.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
The way that the way this campaign happened, the lack
of a primary.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
There's just I think that's the thing.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
It's like so right now being in this moment, because
it's just like right after like just being in a
car accident and like you're just kind of peeling your
face off the air bag. For anybody who's unfortunately been
in an air like a car accident like that, it's
fucking disorienting, you know, you're like, fuck, and right now
all these things are like rushing through in my head
(17:49):
of all the different ways that these little blunders were
adding up to something like this. I just hope that,
you know, like in a just world, this would be
the end of the Democratic Party in this current incarnation.
But I think we have to also be really real
about the fact that the current that this party will
(18:09):
not really change in terms of being able to move
beyond the worship of capital and making line go up.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
And you know, but it's a massive, extremely well funded,
extremely sophisticated machine designed to convert you know, our impulses
for change and progressive ideals and progressive movement into like
you know, market based Yeah, yeah, political movement, and that
(18:43):
that's what it does. That's that is kind of its whole,
Like if you look back on it over the past,
you know, twenty years, that is really what it is
designed to do.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
Yeah, I think that's That's just a moment for I
think for a long time, you know, like we're always
like demanding better. You know, it's like they can do better,
they can do better, and they can, but intellectually and
the way the the ideology of the party works, it's
incapable of it congesture to it can do things like incrementally,
(19:17):
but not in the truly meaningful way. And I think
the only hope, the other hope that I can hold
out for is a like you know, we were talking
and with crafton talking about the passing of time and
finding old civil War rifles in a river. Is that
things are things are always in flux. So yeah, this
this era of American politics is fully shifting into something
(19:42):
different now, or at least the more aggressive form of
being like total mask off, like y'all are on your
own kind of shit. But there, but there, there is
going to be an opportunity for people with actual convictions
to hopefully fill in just to sort of recapture what
people can believe in two. I don't think that's gonna
(20:04):
happen now. But there's the bottom line is I think
too many people feel completely cut out of a normal life,
and because because of that, there's just resentment going in
so many different directions. And yeah, holding onto the message
of just saying like we're gonna give you this the
same thing, but maybe with a few more celebrity endorsements.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
It's just not enough. It's not enough. It's not enough. Yeah,
I don't know what else. I don't I really don't
want to say. I'm kind of like just cooked, dude.
I'm like, I'm so sorry, y'all, it's.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
It's just I also just I just honestly I feel
really fucking awful too, for just for for like a
fleeting moment being like oh yeah, this this this maybe
maybe this isn't where things are headed, when like, deep down,
like I could just.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
I'm like, this is so bad.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
You're not giving people anything, You're not talking to people
where they're at, you're not acknowledging their suffering. And yeah,
absolutely it's yeah, I feel I feel terrible.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
I feel like I fucked up. I got caught up
in you know, pulling and bullshit like that, and just
you know, hope that this would somehow like stave off
the full right.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
Because I think at the end because at the end
of the day, like I mean, the pattern was always
going to be if material conditions aren't being improved for people,
they are going to begin to open up to alternative
forms of governance, whatever that is good or bad, because again,
what is on offer is not doing it. So like
knowing that deep down, it's just like I think it's
(21:54):
also because you just want to you just be like, fuck, dude,
I know, like what the this world is so fucking unfair,
but that but again, the levees were going to have
to break at some point, and I think this is
how it's doing it. I think all all of like
the finger pointing I'm seeing like in certain op eds
and like on online, are not really helpful at the
(22:17):
moment because I think the larger picture, it's not like,
well what if so and so did better or whatever.
I mean, like, I'm sure we can we'll be able
to talk about that a lot more like once you
fully like dive into the data. But I think at
the end of the day, what the biggest issue was
is that the status quo is absolutely fucking killing people,
not just here but abroad. Yeah, And the answer to
(22:40):
that as an electoral strategy was to just keep insisting
on it was an absolute blunder. But I think for
the consultants that were running Joe Biden's campaign and then
took over Kama's campaign, they just felt because of their
such their utter disconnection from what what actual people are feeling.
(23:01):
They're like, no, man, just fucking get We'll say some
cool stuff, We'll get some really cool, glitzy public appearances
and things like that, and and and and just we'll
just gesture.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
To the fact that we're not these people. And that's
just not enough.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
So, yeah, I'm curious to see what, you know, how
the establishment Democrats reckon with this because I'm I don't
know if they're gonna keep blaming other people, uh yeah,
because I mean I would be I would be shocked
if they were, like, we just really need to meet
people where they're at. I mean, like the thing I'm
seeing from more people is like talk about like we
(23:39):
need our own Prager University, we need our own daily
Wise Like I mean, you guys think this is this
kind of already exists and the form of like mainstream media.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
But yeah, it rejects yeah, certain things, so like it's
I do feel like the mainstream media is just the
like doing kind of the same thing that the Democratic isn't,
taking those ideals and then converting them into market you know,
pro market capitalism, and they're like they are playing and
(24:12):
buying into that same game of you know, politics is
convincing people you're going to do what they want you
to do and then like ultimately doing whatever's best for
the market. Like that that assumption is just like built in,
and I just yeah, there has to be consistency and
convictions and yeah, maybe a primary will it will help.
(24:37):
Maybe actually, you know, having a Democratic primary next time
will help and will reveal some candidate one of the
effective things I saw in the mainstream media that did
stick with me was actually, I think it was John
Stewart just showing people's reactions to each of the losses,
like both Democrat and Republican, and like they were always
(25:00):
like coming up with some solution like sort of. The
mainstream response was like, well, now the Republican Party will
need to be like a softer, gentler Republican Party ahead
of like the rise of trump Ism, and you know,
now the Democratic Party will have to like move towards
the Republican Party. And it's never it's never right the
(25:22):
message that people have in the offing, and usually the
way that their conventional political strategist wisdom gets upset is
by a candidate coming out of the woodwork, you know,
Obama or Trump or someone like that and not being
what people expected, at least on the surface. So maybe
(25:46):
a primary will reveal somebody who is able to you know,
have consistency and convictions. But right now it just feels
like really hard to imagine a version of the Democratic
Party that is not because it's just so wild that
after twenty sixteen, the lessons were so profoundly unlearned. Yeah,
(26:10):
I know, I came back and did the same fucking
thing twenty four and then they just lost the need
it exact same way got.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Through by the fucking film on their dentures in twenty
twenty and were like, yeah, fuck yeah, that worked. That worked.
That worked.
Speaker 3 (26:25):
And when you look at like the number of registered
Republicans that got picked off, it was like six percent
went Biden's way in twenty twenty, like five percent went that.
All that work for fucking five percent, Yeah, and that's it.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
They lost. They they won fewer, a smaller percentage of
the Republican vote after focusing their entire closing message on
courting Republican voters with like Dick and Liz Cheney. The
Trump campaign's research, like The New York Times, wrote an
article about like the closing messaging from both of the campaigns.
(27:01):
The Trump campaign's research found that Up for Grabs voters
were about six times as likely as other battleground state
voters to be motivated by their views of Israel's war
in Gaza, and changed their messaging to you know, make
empty gestures at that at being like anti war. Obviously
they're not going to be an anti war administration, but
(27:24):
like they at least were willing to acknowledge that and
change that messaging. Yeah, but yeah, the the trying to
run right didn't work, didn't work. They lost with everybody
who makes less than one hundred thousand dollars. They gained
(27:46):
with people who make over one hundred thousand dollars a year,
and lost ground with people who make less than that.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
Yeah, and yeah, I guess and numerically guess who there's
more of.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Yeah, yeah, I.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
Just I think again, the one thing I think, I
think for everybody listening like this feels.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Shitty, it is shitty.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
It's perfectly okay to like grieve whatever sort of future
you thought may have been coming. But I think on
the other side of that for those of us who
are really engaged and have empathy, but the real challenge
is now going to be that, like our challenge is
going to be in how we are able to protect
(28:27):
each other, how we can really again, the things that
we're fucking this country up. We're not going to be
solved in a presidential election given what was on offer,
But there's a lot to be done in your immediate
community and what you are in control of around you locally,
and that's I think the place to really pour the
(28:49):
energy into because people, it's the people that are around
you that are going to need, like we are going
to need each other the most, and I think that's
what we have to open ourselves up to, truly, is
to step up that challenge to really, really really be
committed to that, because that's how that's the only way
we're going to kind of be able to weather whatever
(29:10):
storm is coming our way and the only way we
can really feel good about it. So I don't, I know,
it feels like absolute shit right now, and that's okay
because it's it totally fucking It's terrible to like watch
a thing happen where you're like, I think this.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
Is a car crash in slow motion.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
And I'm not the greatest thinker here, but I feel
like this is a misstep, and watch that happen.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
It's terrible.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
It's difficult, and to see people emboldened on the right,
it's awful.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
And it feels like the.
Speaker 3 (29:43):
Country fucking hates you, especially for marginalized people. You're like, maybe,
you know, maybe maybe they do give a fuck about
what these kinds of outcomes are. And I think rather
than looking at it that way, we just have to
understand that there are most people do want to the
best for like their neighbors, and I think we have
(30:04):
to really like pour into that because I think again,
hitching our wagon to the star of electoral politics is
very difficult and as we've seen and just bring utter disappointments.
So I think, yeah, yeah, definitely the process is in order,
and then we need to get to work and yeah,
(30:27):
helping each other at like a local level, and that.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
Waiting for the Democratic Party to figure out things that
they are designed not to figure out. It turns out,
all right, We'll leave it there. We'll be back tomorrow
with the whole lest episode of the show. Until then,
be kind to each other, be kind to yourself. Get
the vaccine, Jesus. The healthcare thing was like the fifth
(30:56):
thing that, like RFK, is going to have a major
role in the future the healthcare of this country. Get
your flu shots, get your vaccines, don't do nothing about
white supremacy, and we'll talk to you all tomorrow. Bye bye.
Hello the Internet, and welcome to this episode of podcast
where we cover the race for People's Sexiest man uh
(00:22):
and what What's gonna What's coming from the grammy noms? Uh?
Now this is uh, this is the first episode we're
recording after the election result. My name is Jack O'Brien.
That over there is Miles Gray.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
A bad result for the Democrats last night in the election.
A bad result I would say for the future of
America because we are going to get a new version
of fascism that reaches new depths that I don't think
(00:59):
we've seen or like we've never imagined yet. But so
I think there's a lot of pain and anguish. Certainly
I'm feeling a lot of that.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
I the the polling that I was using as copium
heading into the election, the cells Are poll that I
think a lot of.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
I sniffed too much of that cells Are.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Yeah, I mean yeah, I mean I think for anyone listening,
it's it's too early to begin really like parsing through
the why of it in terms from like the how
who voted how. I think the bigger picture has been
clear just about how liberals then liberalism have this is
like it's like policing. It's like a failed project that's
(01:57):
not rendering the results, and in fact is only you know,
I think, rather than being like they fumbled with the
messaging or these other things, they're just larger material life
issues that have gone that went completely unaddressed, especially during
the Biden administration. That I think opens people up to
being like, well, definitely not this while not considering what
(02:18):
the alternative is. And some people absolutely did consider the
alternative and fully embrace it. I mean, I look at
the results, just even in California with some of the
Ballait propositions that went through, like being like, yeah, let's
keep like incarcerated people in a form of slavery, like
let's uphold that norm. Let's also add some more severe
punishments to very small crimes. So I mean, broadly, there
(02:44):
was a yeah, there's a lot is changing demographically, but yeah,
all that to say, I mean, I think I'm just completely,
like partially just like yeah, but I almost like fucking I'm
like pissed that I even allowed myself to me too.
Here's the thing we always, at least for me personally, right,
(03:09):
like elections and things that happen in politics.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
I'm always kind of like, all.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Right, America, like, let's see how fucked up we are
and how much we're not seeing the bigger picture. And
watching those results I think was just a grim reminder
of the fact that this country like has and always
will be this sort of same thing, which is foundationally
like the sort of the white supremacist capitalist patriarchy.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
And despite the.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Vibrations that abound, at the end of the day, fundamentally
that's kind of like where we sort of end up
sliding back to without any especially when we're.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Not offering people something truly truly different.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Because that's so allergic to offering something that is actually
substantive and progressive in a fundamental way.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
If capital isn't centered, then it's that's absolute anathema to
these people.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Yeah, I mean there were like Rashida Tali one reelection
with seventy seven percent of the vote, Ilhan Omar one
reelection with seventy five percent of the vote. Because they
have convictions, and their convictions don't align with sort of
the liberal order that's represented by the mainstream media, and
(04:24):
so they're treated as unpopular those convictions, but they're not
unpopular with people, They're unpopular with the media. Some progressive
policies did okay on ballot measures in places that you
wouldn't expect them to, protecting abortion rights, raising the minimum wage,
like in Missouri, where people voted for Trump like hard
(04:47):
and went hard for Trump, they voted for abortion rights
and increasing the minimum wage paid sickly, and then they
also voted for Donald Trump by a landslide. It really
feels like the thing that didn't do well well is
the mainstream Democratic Party. And then I would say also
the mainstream media is sort of narrative around the election,
(05:08):
just didn't didn't resonate with people, but really like the
strategy of changing convictions based on what they thought was
going to be the most convenient for them electorally. Yeah,
like they continue to treat politics as a game that
they act like we don't know they're playing.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Right, you know, And it's so clear, right like the
pandering from from like Democrats, this like sort of neoliberal
set and courting people on the right shows already that
values are negotiable, you know, if you're if you're suddenly.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Like, yeah, you know what I'm actually I'm actually.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
For something more like a severe form of immigration control,
and you waiver on those things, then we can't reasonably
expect them to deliver on those things if those values
are not set and they're not pore value like the values.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Are just interchangeable.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
They're they're transactional, and they haven't really delivered. So as
they move to the right to court those people on
the right, you get you get the base of people
who've been supporting Democrats who feel cheated and they're like.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
What the fuck, why are they going on? What the
fuck is what's over there? I thought this ship was
about what we're doing over here.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
And then the people on the right see the Democrats
coming towards them, and they're like, oh, these people are
just they fucking say whatever. Man, Like, yeah, I'm not,
I'm not, I'm sure, but at like the Republicans have
been saying the same shit forever, basically, just at louder
volumes from time to time, and yeah, I again, I'm
(06:45):
just like, I'm very this is again. This is the
first time I'm taught like we're talking about this, so
forgive me, because my thoughts are like all over the place.
I'm very concerned about the future for younger people I'm
very concerned about trans people.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
I'm very concerned about immigrants.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
I'm very I'm just generally a lot of things become
very very existential, like very.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Quickly just thinking about this presidency.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Yeah, and I think I think immediately what people are
probably going to experience first is more.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Just like the neglect of the government.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Like it's not so much as like people are going
to be coming for people, more so that no one
gives a fuck about you is probably I feel like,
probably like the first phase of what this is all
going to feel like, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
And then the coming for you I think will yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
At a certain point, because I think the lack of
social safety nets, the just destruction of public education, public health,
and things like that are going to manifest in these
other sort of chaotic ways that we're all going to.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Have to deal with.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
The one thing that I am thinking of is that
what is clear is we have to now, first of all, motherfuckers,
Brunch is canceled forever.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Forever is over.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
Brunch is dyed h and we have to really think
about too. I think one thing is that it was
easy to just be like, oh, yeah, you know what,
maybe calm won and it just like kind of just
slow down the rot and won't have to really really
have to take radical action to help other people. But
I think now with Trump in the White House is
(08:23):
that that's becoming very real. And that's how I'm kind
of trying to figure out what how I'm going to
feel good is that people are going to need help
because it's not going to come from the places that
it usually does. And this hopefully can reinforce our sense
of community and connection to each other to one And
that's such a fucking three million foot altitude take right now.
(08:45):
But that's about as much as I can articulate at
the moment, just given how fucking just wild this whole
situation is.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Yeah, I do, Yeah, I mean, I mean, like some
of the early electoral data suggests that like the places
that Harris gained was like only with people who earned
over one hundred thousand dollars, but then she lost. It
(09:17):
really feels like when you have two neoliberal like options,
and you know, I think the Republican Party and the
first Trump administration kind of fits into that category where
like it feels like there's this establishment system that is
consistently resisting any sort of political or institutional action that
(09:42):
would benefit people. You know, in any consistent way, you're
going to consistently have a situation where whoever the party
is that's in power is going to have a massive disadvantage,
and especially if they like it's just all the shit
(10:07):
that we were saying all along with like that that
seemed wild about like Harris being like, I can't think
of a single thing I would have done differently, and
not like running away from the Biden administration in any way,
you know, radical centrism, trying to like make friends with
the Republicans, you know, by like being friends with Liz
(10:30):
and Dick Cheney. Like the consistency or lack thereof really
feels important to voters now. And they did, like they
did the exact opposite that they did. They like there
there were New York Times articles like written approvingly about this,
(10:52):
like social media strategy on the Democratic parties.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Well yeah, they they turned up every lever except the
one that was going to bring meaningful, material change to
people's everyday lives.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
It's like, well, we're not gonna I mean, we're not
going to try and figure out how to like you know,
give people better financial support or augment like a child
tax credit or those kinds of things, or really implement
an affordable housing plan.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
It just became like, what.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
If we got the Avengers on a zoom call on
GOOTV Monday and that maybe, well, that's how we can
just squeak out a victory. What if we completely ignore
the fact that we had so much polling around disarming
Israel or not at least continuingly to continuing to happily
(11:44):
arm Israel while they're in the midst of a genocide,
when the polling clearly indicated you would gain more people
by adopting that policy, but they said, well, we only
lose five percent if we don't, you know, and they're
looking at numbers like that and expecting they just wanted
they just they were like, let's just put our fucking
(12:04):
head down and just get through this thing and maybe
scaring the shit out of people enough about trumpet work,
and that clearly spectacularly failed. And there's like, and you
just look at how much of a vote vanished for Democrats.
I mean, I see people who are like, what happened
all these votes? Like something's not right. I think people
were clearly been like, what the status quo is fucking bullshit.
(12:28):
And and right now, unfortunately the Biden administration, along with
Kamala Harris is they are in the driver's seat for
the status quo.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
So for most people, I think, without even thinking too,
I'd be.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Like, well, I'm not voting for this, and I'm not
sure what this will bring, because I'm I'm sure most
people don't know what this will bring. And that's the
other part that really is just the freaky and sad.
And yeah again, we're truly we are in the midst
of a very interesting period for American history for sure,
(13:03):
like this, yes, this is this is something we've never
this is something we've never seen, and yeah, well we
will have to figure out how to how to manage it.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
There was this New York Times article about their social
media strategy where they were just like test out a
bunch of things, see what works. I think I remember
things like that in the twenty twelve Obama re election campaign.
I know I remember that being specifically a strategy with
the Clinton administration where it was weather. They would call
it weather ballooning messaging and seeing, how you know, focus
(13:34):
group testing and you just like release this cloud of
political nanobots trying to win this imaginary game they still
think they're playing, and I'm sure they're like there will
be examples where they did like talk about, you know,
economically helping people, but it was like one of a
(13:57):
thousand messages that they were putting out and there was
no conviction. And also we saw that the Biden administration,
you know, at several kind of high leverage moments where
like Biden threw up his hands, I was like, guys,
I'm trying over here. I just like can't do anything.
I'm only the president of the United States. Like those
(14:19):
are moments that I think stuck with people, and it
really feels like the exact opposite, Like consistency of message
and of values and being able to stick to a
central message is incredibly important. Now It's what drove like
the nobody saw coming Sanders campaign. Like we talked about
(14:44):
how like Trump when he came to power, there was
like all this, you know, the people who saw him
coming were like, there's just appetite for an anti establishment
pick and being the establishment and just frantically trying to
say whatever it is you think people want to hear
(15:04):
from you. Is like the exact opposite of what is
going to resonate with people. Yeah. So yeah, that's kind
of where I'm at with like how we got here,
Let's take a quick break and we'll come back and
(15:31):
we're back. Yeah. I retweeted this video from David Graeber, like,
you know, he died in twenty twenty, but just talking about, oh.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Like the failings of liberalism.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
Yeah, just like the radical centrism. Yeah, of like you know,
he talked about how Obama, and I think this extends
to Clinton, they were basically people who became popular because
they were charismatic enough to make it seem like they
believed in something. You just had all the gestures and
(16:04):
the aesthetics of a movement, you know, like we had
the Obama poster, we had you know, there was just
but then they ultimately don't deliver on that, and you
ultimately end up like making I don't know, like that
that has to be damaging to the overall brand of
(16:25):
the Democratic Party when they keep appropriating the images of
the ideals of progressive politics and then you know, not
not delivering on it. So yeah, I mean this is
all like long term problems that I think a lot
of people have been identifying for a long time. But
(16:45):
I do think all of these different strands are coming
back and taking a giant shit on their faces totally.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
It's yeah, like it's just yeah, I don't know, man,
I really don't. I mean I I historically we've just
we see the pattern play out over and over and
over again, and we just absolutely, you know, unfortunately, because
all of the power is concentrated at the top, just
are learning zero lessons.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
And that's really frustrating from just.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
The way that the way this campaign happened, the lack
of a primary.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
There's just I think that's the thing.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
It's like so right now being in this moment, because
it's just like right after like just being in a
car accident and like you're just kind of peeling your
face off the air bag. For anybody who's unfortunately been
in an air like a car accident like that, it's
fucking disorienting, you know, you're like, fuck, and right now
all these things are like rushing through in my head
(17:49):
of all the different ways that these little blunders were
adding up to something like this. I just hope that,
you know, like in a just world, this would be
the end of the Democratic Party in this current incarnation.
But I think we have to also be really real
about the fact that the current that this party will
(18:09):
not really change in terms of being able to move
beyond the worship of capital and making line go up.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
And you know, but it's a massive, extremely well funded,
extremely sophisticated machine designed to convert you know, our impulses
for change and progressive ideals and progressive movement into like
you know, market based Yeah, yeah, political movement, and that
(18:43):
that's what it does. That's that is kind of its whole,
Like if you look back on it over the past,
you know, twenty years, that is really what it is
designed to do.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
Yeah, I think that's That's just a moment for I
think for a long time, you know, like we're always
like demanding better. You know, it's like they can do better,
they can do better, and they can, but intellectually and
the way the the ideology of the party works, it's
incapable of it congesture to it can do things like incrementally,
(19:17):
but not in the truly meaningful way. And I think
the only hope, the other hope that I can hold
out for is a like you know, we were talking
and with crafton talking about the passing of time and
finding old civil War rifles in a river. Is that
things are things are always in flux. So yeah, this
this era of American politics is fully shifting into something
(19:42):
different now, or at least the more aggressive form of
being like total mask off, like y'all are on your
own kind of shit. But there, but there, there is
going to be an opportunity for people with actual convictions
to hopefully fill in just to sort of recapture what
people can believe in two. I don't think that's gonna
(20:04):
happen now. But there's the bottom line is I think
too many people feel completely cut out of a normal life,
and because because of that, there's just resentment going in
so many different directions. And yeah, holding onto the message
of just saying like we're gonna give you this the
same thing, but maybe with a few more celebrity endorsements.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
It's just not enough. It's not enough. It's not enough. Yeah,
I don't know what else. I don't I really don't
want to say. I'm kind of like just cooked, dude.
I'm like, I'm so sorry, y'all, it's.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
It's just I also just I just honestly I feel
really fucking awful too, for just for for like a
fleeting moment being like oh yeah, this this this maybe
maybe this isn't where things are headed, when like, deep down,
like I could just.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
I'm like, this is so bad.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
You're not giving people anything, You're not talking to people
where they're at, you're not acknowledging their suffering. And yeah,
absolutely it's yeah, I feel I feel terrible.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
I feel like I fucked up. I got caught up
in you know, pulling and bullshit like that, and just
you know, hope that this would somehow like stave off
the full right.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
Because I think at the end because at the end
of the day, like I mean, the pattern was always
going to be if material conditions aren't being improved for people,
they are going to begin to open up to alternative
forms of governance, whatever that is good or bad, because again,
what is on offer is not doing it. So like
knowing that deep down, it's just like I think it's
(21:54):
also because you just want to you just be like, fuck, dude,
I know, like what the this world is so fucking unfair,
but that but again, the levees were going to have
to break at some point, and I think this is
how it's doing it. I think all all of like
the finger pointing I'm seeing like in certain op eds
and like on online, are not really helpful at the
(22:17):
moment because I think the larger picture, it's not like,
well what if so and so did better or whatever.
I mean, like, I'm sure we can we'll be able
to talk about that a lot more like once you
fully like dive into the data. But I think at
the end of the day, what the biggest issue was
is that the status quo is absolutely fucking killing people,
not just here but abroad. Yeah, And the answer to
(22:40):
that as an electoral strategy was to just keep insisting
on it was an absolute blunder. But I think for
the consultants that were running Joe Biden's campaign and then
took over Kama's campaign, they just felt because of their
such their utter disconnection from what what actual people are feeling.
(23:01):
They're like, no, man, just fucking get We'll say some
cool stuff, We'll get some really cool, glitzy public appearances
and things like that, and and and and just we'll
just gesture.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
To the fact that we're not these people. And that's
just not enough.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
So, yeah, I'm curious to see what, you know, how
the establishment Democrats reckon with this because I'm I don't
know if they're gonna keep blaming other people, uh yeah,
because I mean I would be I would be shocked
if they were, like, we just really need to meet
people where they're at. I mean, like the thing I'm
seeing from more people is like talk about like we
(23:39):
need our own Prager University, we need our own daily
Wise Like I mean, you guys think this is this
kind of already exists and the form of like mainstream media.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
But yeah, it rejects yeah, certain things, so like it's
I do feel like the mainstream media is just the
like doing kind of the same thing that the Democratic isn't,
taking those ideals and then converting them into market you know,
pro market capitalism, and they're like they are playing and
(24:12):
buying into that same game of you know, politics is
convincing people you're going to do what they want you
to do and then like ultimately doing whatever's best for
the market. Like that that assumption is just like built in,
and I just yeah, there has to be consistency and
convictions and yeah, maybe a primary will it will help.
(24:37):
Maybe actually, you know, having a Democratic primary next time
will help and will reveal some candidate one of the
effective things I saw in the mainstream media that did
stick with me was actually, I think it was John
Stewart just showing people's reactions to each of the losses,
like both Democrat and Republican, and like they were always
(25:00):
like coming up with some solution like sort of. The
mainstream response was like, well, now the Republican Party will
need to be like a softer, gentler Republican Party ahead
of like the rise of trump Ism, and you know,
now the Democratic Party will have to like move towards
the Republican Party. And it's never it's never right the
(25:22):
message that people have in the offing, and usually the
way that their conventional political strategist wisdom gets upset is
by a candidate coming out of the woodwork, you know,
Obama or Trump or someone like that and not being
what people expected, at least on the surface. So maybe
(25:46):
a primary will reveal somebody who is able to you know,
have consistency and convictions. But right now it just feels
like really hard to imagine a version of the Democratic
Party that is not because it's just so wild that
after twenty sixteen, the lessons were so profoundly unlearned. Yeah,
(26:10):
I know, I came back and did the same fucking
thing twenty four and then they just lost the need
it exact same way got.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Through by the fucking film on their dentures in twenty
twenty and were like, yeah, fuck yeah, that worked. That worked.
That worked.
Speaker 3 (26:25):
And when you look at like the number of registered
Republicans that got picked off, it was like six percent
went Biden's way in twenty twenty, like five percent went that.
All that work for fucking five percent, Yeah, and that's it.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
They lost. They they won fewer, a smaller percentage of
the Republican vote after focusing their entire closing message on
courting Republican voters with like Dick and Liz Cheney. The
Trump campaign's research, like The New York Times, wrote an
article about like the closing messaging from both of the campaigns.
(27:01):
The Trump campaign's research found that Up for Grabs voters
were about six times as likely as other battleground state
voters to be motivated by their views of Israel's war
in Gaza, and changed their messaging to you know, make
empty gestures at that at being like anti war. Obviously
they're not going to be an anti war administration, but
(27:24):
like they at least were willing to acknowledge that and
change that messaging. Yeah, but yeah, the the trying to
run right didn't work, didn't work. They lost with everybody
who makes less than one hundred thousand dollars. They gained
(27:46):
with people who make over one hundred thousand dollars a year,
and lost ground with people who make less than that.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
Yeah, and yeah, I guess and numerically guess who there's
more of.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Yeah, yeah, I.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
Just I think again, the one thing I think, I
think for everybody listening like this feels.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Shitty, it is shitty.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
It's perfectly okay to like grieve whatever sort of future
you thought may have been coming. But I think on
the other side of that for those of us who
are really engaged and have empathy, but the real challenge
is now going to be that, like our challenge is
going to be in how we are able to protect
(28:27):
each other, how we can really again, the things that
we're fucking this country up. We're not going to be
solved in a presidential election given what was on offer,
But there's a lot to be done in your immediate
community and what you are in control of around you locally,
and that's I think the place to really pour the
(28:49):
energy into because people, it's the people that are around
you that are going to need, like we are going
to need each other the most, and I think that's
what we have to open ourselves up to, truly, is
to step up that challenge to really, really really be
committed to that, because that's how that's the only way
we're going to kind of be able to weather whatever
(29:10):
storm is coming our way and the only way we
can really feel good about it. So I don't, I know,
it feels like absolute shit right now, and that's okay
because it's it totally fucking It's terrible to like watch
a thing happen where you're like, I think this.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
Is a car crash in slow motion.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
And I'm not the greatest thinker here, but I feel
like this is a misstep, and watch that happen.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
It's terrible.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
It's difficult, and to see people emboldened on the right,
it's awful.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
And it feels like the.
Speaker 3 (29:43):
Country fucking hates you, especially for marginalized people. You're like, maybe,
you know, maybe maybe they do give a fuck about
what these kinds of outcomes are. And I think rather
than looking at it that way, we just have to
understand that there are most people do want to the
best for like their neighbors, and I think we have
(30:04):
to really like pour into that because I think again,
hitching our wagon to the star of electoral politics is
very difficult and as we've seen and just bring utter disappointments.
So I think, yeah, yeah, definitely the process is in order,
and then we need to get to work and yeah,
(30:27):
helping each other at like a local level, and that.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
Waiting for the Democratic Party to figure out things that
they are designed not to figure out. It turns out,
all right, We'll leave it there. We'll be back tomorrow
with the whole lest episode of the show. Until then,
be kind to each other, be kind to yourself. Get
the vaccine, Jesus. The healthcare thing was like the fifth
(30:56):
thing that, like RFK, is going to have a major
role in the future the healthcare of this country. Get
your flu shots, get your vaccines, don't do nothing about
white supremacy, and we'll talk to you all tomorrow. Bye bye.
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Miles Gray
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