April 30, 2024 • 33 mins
In this edition of Zeit Rider, Jack and Miles discuss the Columbia student protests with current Columbia University grad student, journalist and former Super Producer Trisha Mukherjee!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello the Internet, and welcome to this episode of zipe Rider.
Oh you know, when in doubt, I can always count
on Miles.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Great, the only child who didn't have headphones.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Why were we talking about night rider recently?
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Because you were talking about if a cab includes night Rider?
I think, okay, and then we're like, yeah, because like
a billionaire like made the cop, Like the cop got shot,
and then the billionaire shot in my face. Yeah, and
then the bonaire the vanity.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
To it because Michael Knight, Yeah, Michael Knight like got
to choose how handsome he was, and he chose to
look like David Hasselhoff, Like he that was like a
self sculpted face. But also like the fact that it
was a billionaire. Now, knowing what we know about billionaires, like,
you can't trust it. He probably had that cop shot
and then had his base designed to look like someone
(01:04):
that he thought was handsome. Just kind of putting it
all together. Now, anyways, my name is Jack O'Brien. That's
Miles Gray. This is the episode where we tell you
what is trending, and we actually have a very special
trending episode because one of the things that is trending,
(01:24):
of course, is the student protests happening across the country
that started at Columbia University, or at least like a
big portion of the coverage has started at Columbia University.
And we are thrilled to be joined by a former
producer of this show, currently in grad school for journalism
(01:47):
at Columbia University. She's been doing some reporting on the
student protests. Please welcome back to the show, Trician Moukarch.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
Having me back, It's so fun to be back here
right so long, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
And look at like yeah, and suddenly when like super
producer Anna was like, y'all, Tricia's at Columbia and she's
like up in it right now, like we should talk
to them, like yeah, because when you look at the
coverage of the student protests, depending on where you get
your news, it could be either a peaceful protest or
it could be a thing that's rife with anti semitism,
(02:27):
or it could be so violent, but it may be
the cop Like again, I think with everything surrounding the
situation in Gaza, like there's just so many realities people
are experiencing, or at least different realities are being represented
and presented to them. But for you being on the
ground and it's happening at the university you're currently attending.
Can you just like give us an idea just sort
(02:49):
of like how it all started, because I think a
lot of people will just say, like these kids are
like Hamas sympathizers who have lost the plot, or they're
people who don't know what they're doing and it's like
a fad. Can you just tell us, like how like
point A to now where we're at, Like the escalation
is clear now that students have like barricaded themselves into
(03:10):
a building, Like it's it's like this is not.
Speaker 5 (03:12):
Going away in any kind of normal way, But how
did it all? Like walk us through this for a second?
Speaker 4 (03:18):
Yeah, So I think that this has been a conversation
on campus for a long time, like long before October seventh,
and long before the last two weeks. It's just that
in the last two weeks, the whole country's attention has
zoomed in on the section of like two or three blocks.
(03:38):
But people have been protesting for Palestine long before that
as well. So I'll start just a little bit further back.
On October seventh, there were big protests on campus, both
from the pro Israel side and from the pro Palestine side,
and each group was in its own separate area and
(04:00):
kind of chanting and being together. There was a lot
of pain in the air. But since then there have
been several propost time protests. There's been a huge amount
of I think like discrimination and kind of danger to
those student protesters. Right from the very beginning around October seventh,
(04:22):
there were these trucks that would constantly circle around campus
with the faces of those students and their names and
their personal contact information and their addresses, and those are
being circulated everywhere essentially to encourage people to docs and
threaten the propostime protesters.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
Do you say trum.
Speaker 5 (04:42):
Yeah, like at Harvard. We saw them at Harvard. I
remember seeing the ones that was happening at Harvard.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Where they were like pull on LCD screens that were
basically like video billboards docsing people exactly.
Speaker 4 (04:53):
Okay, yeah, it's like this black truck like who knows
who owns it. But besides are just these massive screens
where they like play propaganda and I see.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
I'm assuming Iran on is it right?
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Iran is funding most of this, most of what's happening
at Columbia. According to some mainstream media, who is being
docs who is being kind of threatened in this way?
Is it students on both sides, on the pro Israel
and the pro Palestine side.
Speaker 4 (05:22):
In my experience and understanding from the students that I've
talked to, it's really been targeted at pro Palestine protesters,
in pro Palestine students who have been protesting since October seventh,
and I should say completely peacefully. They've been gathering on
the steps and like having waving flags and stuff. But
(05:43):
so those people were targeted, and the university took no
real actionable steps to address that their students were being
threatened with really violent things. And then it, you know,
people kept protesting. And then there was an attack a
few months ago where several people who were former IDF
(06:07):
soldiers used a chemical weapon to attack pro Postinian protesters
on campus, and several of those students had to go
to the hospital for several days because they're extremely nauseous,
they couldn't breathe right, they felt extremely lightheaded. And to
think that there was a literal chemical weapon attack against
(06:28):
pro Palestinian students on campus, or for that matter, any
students on campus, it just like and that's something that
wasn't covered by media.
Speaker 6 (06:37):
Yeah, I mean that's like the skunk attack that I
feel like, Yeah, I remember reading about and like I
remember there's one version that was like it was some
kind of chemical irritant, and then like in herrets, there
were people saying that it was just a non toxic
fart spray that the person purchased on Amazon.
Speaker 5 (06:54):
So you're like, what what's happening? Like what like? So
is what what?
Speaker 4 (07:00):
Like?
Speaker 2 (07:00):
So this year we're talking about people who actually were
injured this like back in January and are still like
recovering from that.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (07:08):
I think there's like students have said that there's long
term effects of something like that, and I know that
there was. I don't want to say an exact number
and have that wrong, but there are several students who
were hospitalized for several days as they were trying to
be stabilized. So it wasn't just some joke kind of
spray that you can buy at the dollar store. This
(07:28):
is something that's really dangerous. And I also wanted to
say that the Columbia administration has been sending emails since
October seventh to the whole school basically condemning anti Semitism,
but not addressing any of the attacks or dosing or
the other things that has been happening to Arab and
(07:48):
Muslim and Palestinian students. And so I think a lot
of that is because of outside influences or the Columbia
president recently testified in front of Congress, and we have
a lot of doughnuts who are very insistent about how
the school should act. But it's just it seems like
a lot of the media coverage and the school has
(08:10):
been very like it has just been ignoring how a
lot of students on campus feel when they protest for gossip.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Yeah, I feel like one version, like I'm just looking
at how the media has even talking about it today.
Speaker 5 (08:25):
It's like very disingenuous and flippant. The New York Times
was like trying to be like we know, like let's
let's break it down for you. Why these demonstrations are
just spreading so rapidly, and they're like calling it like contagious,
like they're like it's almost like a disease, sort of
like context that they're trying to set this up.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
As there are people like in the Free Press, they
there's a there was an article called camping out at
Columbia's Communist Coachella.
Speaker 5 (08:54):
I'm guessing that's not the energy.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Like, can you just sort of talk to specifically, like
what students are experiencing, because so many people are wanting
to be dismissive of of how students are organizing on
campus and being like they're just doing it to fit
in man, you know, and there's a lot of peer
pressure for young people and they're not real they.
Speaker 5 (09:12):
Don't really know what's going on. Is that true?
Speaker 4 (09:17):
I think it's it's very different than it. What was
it a communist Coachella?
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Yeah, camping out of Colombia's Communist Coachella.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
Yes, they had to, and is the sign of a
good writer.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
As you've probably learned in journalism schools, that's probably the
first thing they teach here, like sick headlines equal vast alliteration, right.
Speaker 4 (09:38):
Yeah, very credible to add the literation, completely credible. Yes, yeah,
that that is not the situation at all. It's been
quite well organized. And the students who are leading the protests,
many of them are Palestinian and have family and friends
and loved ones who have been killed in Gaza, And
(10:02):
I think like to say that this is just some party,
and like students who want to feel in on the
hot topic of the day, is really dismissive to those experiences.
And also all the students who kind of feel the
pain of their classmates and an ongoing genocide and are
showing up to support.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Them, right because it like it's not just yeah, because
I feel like there's so many other things, like especially
for young people entering adulthood, looking at what their lives
are going to look like post academia, and being like,
is this even like a functioning society I'm entering, Like
I feel like there's so many levels of frustration that
young people are experiencing, especially on college, that this is
(10:41):
just like this swirling perfect storm of many things. But
right now seeing a NonStop like anyone on social media
is having to see just horrific image after horrific image
of what's happening in Gaza, and like, how I don't
understand how some people in the MEETERI are like and yeah,
they think it's like some fad rather than like these
people are deeply a fect by what is happening, and
they're trying to exercise some amount of power over the administration.
(11:06):
Because can you like also tell us, like what you
know the demands of like the why is also being
the bunch of people are coming in with all kinds
of takes, like they're paid actors or they're not, or
they don't know what.
Speaker 5 (11:17):
They're doing, or they don't even know what they want.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
But can you speak to specifically, like what the demands
are of the students of Columbia in regards to what
is happening.
Speaker 4 (11:25):
Yeah, so I think, like as you were saying, Maths,
what's happening outside the gates is very different than what's
happening inside the gates. So when you hear people like
yelling violent things, that's probably outside the gates and those
people aren't really in line with the actual demands of
the protesters inside the gates. Where I've been on campus
(11:46):
for the last two weeks and it's been very peaceful.
It's been students sitting in their tents and like doing
their homework and studying for finals. And they're there to
demand two main things. One is to disclose Columbia's investments
in Israel and the others to divest and Columbia has
had several movements for divestment, most notably in South Africa
(12:09):
and so the students are following a similar model for that.
And I think the third main call to action is
they want the university to give amnesty to students who
are arrested by the NPD. This is over one hundred
and eight people I think were arrested and those students
are being suspended, evicted with very very little notice or
(12:33):
even expelled. So they want amnesty for those students who
are peacefully protesting, literally just sitting on the lawn when
the NPD came and took them away.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
So when you talk about Columbia, students have pushed for
divestment in South Africa. That was during the apartheid period
of South Africa in the eighties and they successfully, you know,
they were on the right side of history. And you know,
we're we're able to push Columbia University to do that correct.
Speaker 4 (13:04):
Yeah, And the most recent development is that the students
last night took over Hamilton Hall, which is one of
the buildings on campus. And that's the same building that
students in decades past have taken over to demand investment
or protest against segregation and all these other big social
problems that looking back on it on the past it's
(13:26):
like of course, like of course they were right.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Yeah, well, let's take a quick break and we'll come
back and keep talking about this.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
We'll be right back and we're back and yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
So, I mean, it feels like we're seeing conflicting reports,
Like we're seeing reports that the student protesters are like
well funded sleeper cells, they're committed anti semi And obviously,
as you mentioned, like there is anti Semitic things being
chanted outside of the gates right, like as not not
(14:08):
a part of the student protests, but anti Semitism is real,
is a is.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
A real problem.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Obviously, it's not part of this movement that people want
it to be a part of, or that some some
forces won't want it to be a part of. But
can you just talk a little bit more about kind
of what you're hearing from from the students who you
who you're talking to and like sitting with you said,
(14:36):
they're they're studying. There's also people in pain who have
like lost family members to this conflict. But what yeah,
what what else are you saying?
Speaker 4 (14:46):
Yeah, so on on campus, it's like you walk in
and on one of the lawns, there's all these like
really right tents, like and largely it's like students kind
of sleeping there, study being there, reading there on the encampment.
At times, it's been really a joyful and happy environment.
(15:09):
I was speaking to someone of Pastinian heritage who said,
being on the encampment and getting messages from his loved
ones in Palestine and like having that connection being built
is one of the safest and like most kind of
liberated he's felt in many years. There's been a lot
of singing and dancing. There were performances from all the
(15:33):
various student dance groups, and there's been like a big
Shabbat dinner and celebrations for Passover. There was a moment
when for Shabbat dinner, some of the Jewis students who
had been suspended came to the gate, and then the
jewistudents who were inside also came to the gate, and
of course the suspended students weren't let in, but they
kind of shared their meal and their like their space,
(15:58):
even despite the divide. So it's been a lot of
just kind of like yeah, showings of solidarity, showings of joy,
and in terms of what people are saying. In the beginning,
before the NYPD came, it was a group of students
who had, I think, were very intensely supporting the pro
Palestine movement. After that, a lot of students who hadn't
(16:21):
been that involved came because they were like, no matter
what your stance on the issue is, it's not right
for a university president to call that NYPD in to
arrest its own students. Even when the NYPD, of all
people were like, they're totally peaceful, they're just getting cool.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
Yeah, they were actually pretty chill.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
You want to say, knock them for setting up tents,
It's like, no, get them, they're violent.
Speaker 5 (16:47):
They're like they're playing drums and stuff.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
Yeah, and violent. We have quotloose rules here.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
People might start dancing and men who knows what happened,
then freedom may abound.
Speaker 4 (16:58):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. So even then, MYPD, we're kind of
like why are we here? Like why are we doing this?
And I think that motivated a lot of students, a
lot of professors to come out and like stay in
the enkempment. And since then, I mean, the media again
portrays it as this constant chaos and violence and anti Semitism,
(17:20):
and yes, there is a lot of that happening, especially
outside of the Gates but largely it's been people just
like living life.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Yeah, And I think that's what's kind of it's so hard, right,
because there's been this you know, people talk about how
anti Semitism is being weaponized against people who are merely
trying to advocate for, you know, the autonomy and safety
of Palestinian people. And I'm like, what's that experience for
you and other students who are like caught in this,
(17:49):
Like you know, like you're you're morally outraged and you're
trying to express that and next thing, you know, you
find yourself being like confronted by the NYPD because that
the administration.
Speaker 5 (18:01):
Is calling for that help. Like does this make students?
Speaker 2 (18:04):
I mean, obviously the students are very resilient because it
doesn't seem like things are like diminished in any way.
Speaker 5 (18:11):
They're in fact, they're escalating.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
But like, is the feeling of like optimism, is it
outrage mixed with optim you know what I mean? Like,
what is what's that kind of emotion like for everybody involved?
Because yeah, Like to your point, it's become the focus
of the entire nation now, especially as campuses all over
the country are now also having their own encampments and
things like that, But like what, like what is that
(18:34):
feeling in terms of like what the end game is
or like how achievable the the goals of these encampments are.
Speaker 4 (18:43):
I think there is there is a sense of optimism.
It's hard to say that there's any one kind of
overarching feeling because there's so many different views. And I
certainly know students who are very perturbed about the whole situation.
There's people who like graduated during COVID and they really
(19:07):
wanted a graduation and it seems unlikely now that that
will happen, and everyone is kind of like running on
low sleep and high stress. But I think in terms
of the protesters themselves, they see that what they're doing
is echoing history. They are optimistic and determined, and from
(19:28):
my interviews with protesters, they're not going to take shit
from the university. The university has tried to get them
to stop. They came to the encampment with all these
forms saying like if you leave by two pm yesterday,
so April twenty ninth, then they'll be okay. Otherwise they'll
be suspended and maybe expelled and basically banned from university property.
(19:52):
But there is just a vote and it was immediately
like yes, we're staying. So I think that kind of
reflects the fact that these students are determined, they are optimistic.
And even in the South Africa protests, students occupied buildings
for days before the university agreed to divest or agreed
(20:14):
to like even think about divesting, so they realize it's
not a quick thing. They realize that I'll take sustained
time and effort.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
It's like wild to see because I just can't, like
I just think of my own experience going to college
like nearly twenty years ago or beat twenty years ago.
It's like my freshman year and you enter a college
campus like there to like explore ideas and to like
begin to express yourself and the ways that you're like
and all these things that you're learning by going to college,
(20:42):
and like to be in a situation now where that
environment has been completely like flipped on its head and
now it's like hostile and just is it's like really
fucked up to just see that and then just to
see like this, like to now see the administrations of
some of these schools just be hand in hand with
like militarized police just feels like a complete fucking just
(21:03):
just all kinds of fucked up that I'm like, that's,
oh my god, it must fucking suck so bad for
these kids.
Speaker 5 (21:09):
But at the same time, like they're they're driven.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
By a like a higher moral purpose than merely like
lamenting the fact that like what has our school become.
But also this is because they there's there's something very
real and they're they're tangible outcomes that they're seeking.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Really adds color to this idea that we've heard people
talk about the universities are you know, hedge fund and
real estate companies with like an academic apparatus attached to them.
It's like you're you're seeing that very sharp distinction where
the hedge fund, you know, billion dollar you know, endowment people,
(21:46):
and you know, the president to a lot of times,
the you know, Larry Summers was the president of Harvard,
like Larry's lover's the guy who is now just like
spokesperson for capitalism and fuck you to everybody else. But
like it really just kind of puts into perspective like
what these institutions actually are because it's not like the
(22:11):
faculty is out there being like, yeah, get the fuck
out of here and with the students, yeah, the learned people,
and then the more operational, capitalistic actors are at the top,
working with military police trying to Yeah.
Speaker 4 (22:30):
And I think that's also reflected in the stuff we learned. So, like,
we have this thing at Columbia called the Core curriculum,
So I went there as an undergrad as well, and
it's basically all the philosophy and literature that led us
to Western society. And in decades past it's been very,
(22:52):
very non critical, like there's been no discussions of colonialism
or all the things that have gone wrong.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
And actually students protested on Western by the way, I
should just clarify the listener.
Speaker 4 (23:03):
Yeah, yeah, that didn't translate to audio. So actually, like
I believe in the nineties, students protested to diversify that
whole Core curriculum and what we learned. So we added
a few scholars who are non Western, and that's still
(23:24):
a work in progress. It's still largely old, dead white men,
but we have read some like Edward said and Gandhi
and Franz Finan, and a lot of students are like,
what is the point of discussing all of this in
a critical light? If we can just sit in our
classrooms and like theoretically muse about this using big words,
(23:45):
but we can't go out and protest with the ideas.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
That we've learned, right, Yeah, it's a yeah, it's funny too,
because I've seen Fenon's work be also like weaponized to
be like that this guy is just also preaching violence
and like not really taking the totality of what friends
Fanan's work is to just be like and this is
the handbook that these students are operating of off of,
when I've seen more like fear mongerie type articles that
(24:09):
are completely trying to obscure like what's happening. And yeah,
it's like, you know, we see this all the time.
When people really begin to question and threaten the status
quo of something like you get this huge, outsized response
because you can see white supremacists have their demonstrations and
the police are escorting them and because that's just a
(24:33):
pillar of what American ult it's First Amendment man. But
then you have kids peacefully protesting and now we're talking
about like just full on goon squads coming out to
clear out like these these encampments, and it's just I mean,
it's like it's so wild because at the same time
you have these lead people in leadership are like what
what what's getting into these kids' minds. It's like the
(24:54):
ship that they're experiencing on the backs of the policies
you create.
Speaker 5 (24:58):
It's not a it's not a mystery.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
It's like they're made to live in the same world
and they have their analysis is just coming online much
quicker than generations past who didn't quite have all of
this information available to.
Speaker 5 (25:09):
Them, like at such speed. Yeah and efficiency.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
So yeah, thanks to TikTok's right, Trisia, I have to
assume all the protesters are just on TikTok at all times,
waiting and say they're not, but it is. I talk
a lot about how like movies are an important gauge
for like America's like conscious and unconscious biases, and just
(25:33):
thinking about like how protesters are treated in a lot
of mainstream movies, like especially in like the nineties.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
Just like think of like PCU.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
Have you guys seen PCU, Like where it just treats
it's like a university where it's like everything's like so
politically correct, and like all the protesters are just like
people are protesting, like what their lunch order is and
so dismissive. But even like in Forrest Gump, like when
he goes to the National Malt for like and like
there's a massive protest happening, like they just portray it
(26:06):
as like people following along in lines randomly, and like
they portray like the Black Panther Party is like there's
this one part where like a Black Panther leader is
like shouting at Forrest Gump about like what he's angry about,
and Forrest Gump leaves and the Black Panther leader keeps
shouting at the space Forrest Gump left, like he's like
(26:27):
an anger automaton. And it's just like there's this mainstream
sort of thing that's like we object to student protesters
on the fact that they're annoying to us, right, you know,
like they just like don't want to hear it, and
it's pretty frustrating. And I feel like you see some
of that coming out like where like there's just like
(26:50):
this rush of different angles that are critical of the
student protest movement. It's like they're you know, like I
was saying, it's like they're organized and like being paid
by terrorist organizations. They're actually just doing it for like Instagram.
They're actually like doing it so well that it's covering
(27:13):
up like some of the real news that's happening. That
was one that like I saw recently, there's like a
big op edge in I think it was the La
Times where they were like student protesters, well, well meaning
are like distracting from the real crimes that are being
committed over there, but like so what they should not
(27:34):
protest those crimes? Yeah, because like isn't that a mainstream
media problem, not a student's trying to draw attention to
the problem problem.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
You know.
Speaker 5 (27:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
I feel like there's also like this pettiness from the
media because in a way, the students are doing their body. Yeah,
they're imbiding the outrage. Even an objective journalist should have
or not necessarily that you have to editorialize and have
outrage within your reporting, but to at least objectively state
what is happening, why people are doing it, and like
what what the actual stakes are, rather than trying to
(28:07):
obfuscate and try and be like, well, you know, some
people said some really anti semitic stuff, So I think
all these kids are actually just anti semitic, And it's like,
did you have you actually, are you reporting on the
amount of Jewish students.
Speaker 5 (28:18):
That are also participating in these demonstrations.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Because that would also put a huge dent in that
very like you know, the lazy narrative that is used
to discredit what's happening. So yeah, I feel like there's
this part of it too that I mean, because in
a way I feel it like not like this envy,
but I'm I'm like, fuck, man, I didn't have my
shit together like that when I was in college, Like
(28:42):
I didn't, like I knew what was wrong with the world,
but they're just it just wasn't at that place where
it was there was there were opportunities to do that
all the time, like aside from like the Iraq War
and other demonstrations that I participated in, or like marriage
equality and things like that. But in that moment, I'm like,
so yeah, I'm like, damn man, like these they're fucking
(29:02):
doing the right fucking thing right now for the right reasons,
or you know, I'd say ninety five percent of the
kids are right, and.
Speaker 5 (29:09):
There's something to that.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
I feel like, I'm sure on some level of the
media like it forces them to look at themselves too
and be like these kids are looking at how power flows,
how hegemony works, how like finances work, how you know,
how US foreign policy puts people in danger, and they're
reacting to it in a way that you know, maybe
(29:31):
we spent too much time talking about WMDs and yellow
Cake and completely fucking missed the whole point, And now
you have a group of kids who were like, dude,
we're not falling for the same shit anymore. So anyway,
I'm just I'm I hope that this ends in the
way that the students want and for, in a way
that is justice oriented and not you know, just not
(29:54):
seeing just more just violence, state sanctioned violence.
Speaker 4 (29:58):
Yeah. Definitely think the protesters themselves have been a little
like upset that coverage on them, the fact that every
all the cameras in the country have turned towards them
rather than what's actually happening in Gaza. But also they
feel the need to speak up. So I guess that's
something like we have control over our media diets, so
(30:20):
we can also make sure to to keep the situation
in Gaza.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
I think they should just go home. They should just
go home.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
Yeah, you're actually making it like I can't even even
like think right now from your protesting just leave me
alone now. Amazing, Well, Trisha, thank you so much for
coming back, and hopefully we can we can stay in
touch and kind of keep talking to.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
You as the situation develops.
Speaker 5 (30:50):
But yeah, oh, and also you were going to mention
like we're you know, for people who are interested in
getting out object you understanding of what is happening, Like
where should you where do we want to direct people
to kind of begin their information gathering?
Speaker 4 (31:07):
So I think social media is just so poisonous in
terms of delivering news about all of this, so I'd
be very wary of that. I found actually one of
the best places to go is the student newspapers. So
I know, like the Columbia Daily Spectator might not be
in your normal media diet, but like the Columbia Newspaper
is doing an amazing job. All of the other student
(31:29):
newspapers across campuses are doing really really good jobs of reporting,
and often they're the only ones with access inside campus.
So check out those. And then I just wanted to
plug a Twitter account that some of my fellow journalism
students are running. It's CJS Underscore fact Check, and what
(31:50):
they're doing is basically looking at a lot of the
news on social media that's being posted, and a lot
of those things are like pictures from ages ago or
just complete misrepresentations of what's happening. So if you want
to see what's true and what's not, check out that
Twitter and follow it and they'll be keeping as updated.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
If you are going to go on social media, go
to that one. Yeah, because at least that one isn't
horrific and full of shit.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
I get all my sports news from the Columbia Student Newspaper,
so that's already consider me a follower already. That's where
I get my big gambling tips.
Speaker 4 (32:28):
We're sports team. So yeah, thanks, thanks so much, Jack,
Thank you mos.
Speaker 5 (32:35):
Yeah, yeah, definitely good seeing Nutricia again.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
Yeah, my heart there.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Yeah, and other students, uh, and I hope you know
you're just more power to all of you, because it's
this is not an easy thing, and this is like
one of the biggest societal issues in United States politics
that we've just never had a reckoning with and we're
seeing it play.
Speaker 5 (32:54):
Out in this way and I think it's just massively important.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
So yeah, yeah, all credit to to everybody being out
there and being solidarity with the Palestinian people. The kids
are all right, all right, those iPad kids, they're all right.
Speaker 3 (33:10):
There are just all right. And by all right, we
mean like C plus they're just they're they're all right.
Millennials still rule. We're a plus amazing. All right.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
I'm gonna do it for today, back tomorrow with the
whole last episode of the show. Until then, be kind
to each other, be kind to yourselves, get the vaccine,
don't do nothing about white supremacy, and we will talk
to you all tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (33:36):
Bye.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
B
Hello the Internet, and welcome to this episode of zipe Rider.
Oh you know, when in doubt, I can always count
on Miles.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Great, the only child who didn't have headphones.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Why were we talking about night rider recently?
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Because you were talking about if a cab includes night Rider?
I think, okay, and then we're like, yeah, because like
a billionaire like made the cop, Like the cop got shot,
and then the billionaire shot in my face. Yeah, and
then the bonaire the vanity.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
To it because Michael Knight, Yeah, Michael Knight like got
to choose how handsome he was, and he chose to
look like David Hasselhoff, Like he that was like a
self sculpted face. But also like the fact that it
was a billionaire. Now, knowing what we know about billionaires, like,
you can't trust it. He probably had that cop shot
and then had his base designed to look like someone
(01:04):
that he thought was handsome. Just kind of putting it
all together. Now, anyways, my name is Jack O'Brien. That's
Miles Gray. This is the episode where we tell you
what is trending, and we actually have a very special
trending episode because one of the things that is trending,
(01:24):
of course, is the student protests happening across the country
that started at Columbia University, or at least like a
big portion of the coverage has started at Columbia University.
And we are thrilled to be joined by a former
producer of this show, currently in grad school for journalism
(01:47):
at Columbia University. She's been doing some reporting on the
student protests. Please welcome back to the show, Trician Moukarch.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
Having me back, It's so fun to be back here
right so long, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
And look at like yeah, and suddenly when like super
producer Anna was like, y'all, Tricia's at Columbia and she's
like up in it right now, like we should talk
to them, like yeah, because when you look at the
coverage of the student protests, depending on where you get
your news, it could be either a peaceful protest or
it could be a thing that's rife with anti semitism,
(02:27):
or it could be so violent, but it may be
the cop Like again, I think with everything surrounding the
situation in Gaza, like there's just so many realities people
are experiencing, or at least different realities are being represented
and presented to them. But for you being on the
ground and it's happening at the university you're currently attending.
Can you just like give us an idea just sort
(02:49):
of like how it all started, because I think a
lot of people will just say, like these kids are
like Hamas sympathizers who have lost the plot, or they're
people who don't know what they're doing and it's like
a fad. Can you just tell us, like how like
point A to now where we're at, Like the escalation
is clear now that students have like barricaded themselves into
(03:10):
a building, Like it's it's like this is not.
Speaker 5 (03:12):
Going away in any kind of normal way, But how
did it all? Like walk us through this for a second?
Speaker 4 (03:18):
Yeah, So I think that this has been a conversation
on campus for a long time, like long before October seventh,
and long before the last two weeks. It's just that
in the last two weeks, the whole country's attention has
zoomed in on the section of like two or three blocks.
(03:38):
But people have been protesting for Palestine long before that
as well. So I'll start just a little bit further back.
On October seventh, there were big protests on campus, both
from the pro Israel side and from the pro Palestine side,
and each group was in its own separate area and
(04:00):
kind of chanting and being together. There was a lot
of pain in the air. But since then there have
been several propost time protests. There's been a huge amount
of I think like discrimination and kind of danger to
those student protesters. Right from the very beginning around October seventh,
(04:22):
there were these trucks that would constantly circle around campus
with the faces of those students and their names and
their personal contact information and their addresses, and those are
being circulated everywhere essentially to encourage people to docs and
threaten the propostime protesters.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
Do you say trum.
Speaker 5 (04:42):
Yeah, like at Harvard. We saw them at Harvard. I
remember seeing the ones that was happening at Harvard.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Where they were like pull on LCD screens that were
basically like video billboards docsing people exactly.
Speaker 4 (04:53):
Okay, yeah, it's like this black truck like who knows
who owns it. But besides are just these massive screens
where they like play propaganda and I see.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
I'm assuming Iran on is it right?
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Iran is funding most of this, most of what's happening
at Columbia. According to some mainstream media, who is being
docs who is being kind of threatened in this way?
Is it students on both sides, on the pro Israel
and the pro Palestine side.
Speaker 4 (05:22):
In my experience and understanding from the students that I've
talked to, it's really been targeted at pro Palestine protesters,
in pro Palestine students who have been protesting since October seventh,
and I should say completely peacefully. They've been gathering on
the steps and like having waving flags and stuff. But
(05:43):
so those people were targeted, and the university took no
real actionable steps to address that their students were being
threatened with really violent things. And then it, you know,
people kept protesting. And then there was an attack a
few months ago where several people who were former IDF
(06:07):
soldiers used a chemical weapon to attack pro Postinian protesters
on campus, and several of those students had to go
to the hospital for several days because they're extremely nauseous,
they couldn't breathe right, they felt extremely lightheaded. And to
think that there was a literal chemical weapon attack against
(06:28):
pro Palestinian students on campus, or for that matter, any
students on campus, it just like and that's something that
wasn't covered by media.
Speaker 6 (06:37):
Yeah, I mean that's like the skunk attack that I
feel like, Yeah, I remember reading about and like I
remember there's one version that was like it was some
kind of chemical irritant, and then like in herrets, there
were people saying that it was just a non toxic
fart spray that the person purchased on Amazon.
Speaker 5 (06:54):
So you're like, what what's happening? Like what like? So
is what what?
Speaker 4 (07:00):
Like?
Speaker 2 (07:00):
So this year we're talking about people who actually were
injured this like back in January and are still like
recovering from that.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (07:08):
I think there's like students have said that there's long
term effects of something like that, and I know that
there was. I don't want to say an exact number
and have that wrong, but there are several students who
were hospitalized for several days as they were trying to
be stabilized. So it wasn't just some joke kind of
spray that you can buy at the dollar store. This
(07:28):
is something that's really dangerous. And I also wanted to
say that the Columbia administration has been sending emails since
October seventh to the whole school basically condemning anti Semitism,
but not addressing any of the attacks or dosing or
the other things that has been happening to Arab and
(07:48):
Muslim and Palestinian students. And so I think a lot
of that is because of outside influences or the Columbia
president recently testified in front of Congress, and we have
a lot of doughnuts who are very insistent about how
the school should act. But it's just it seems like
a lot of the media coverage and the school has
(08:10):
been very like it has just been ignoring how a
lot of students on campus feel when they protest for gossip.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Yeah, I feel like one version, like I'm just looking
at how the media has even talking about it today.
Speaker 5 (08:25):
It's like very disingenuous and flippant. The New York Times
was like trying to be like we know, like let's
let's break it down for you. Why these demonstrations are
just spreading so rapidly, and they're like calling it like contagious,
like they're like it's almost like a disease, sort of
like context that they're trying to set this up.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
As there are people like in the Free Press, they
there's a there was an article called camping out at
Columbia's Communist Coachella.
Speaker 5 (08:54):
I'm guessing that's not the energy.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Like, can you just sort of talk to specifically, like
what students are experiencing, because so many people are wanting
to be dismissive of of how students are organizing on
campus and being like they're just doing it to fit
in man, you know, and there's a lot of peer
pressure for young people and they're not real they.
Speaker 5 (09:12):
Don't really know what's going on. Is that true?
Speaker 4 (09:17):
I think it's it's very different than it. What was
it a communist Coachella?
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Yeah, camping out of Colombia's Communist Coachella.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
Yes, they had to, and is the sign of a
good writer.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
As you've probably learned in journalism schools, that's probably the
first thing they teach here, like sick headlines equal vast alliteration, right.
Speaker 4 (09:38):
Yeah, very credible to add the literation, completely credible. Yes, yeah,
that that is not the situation at all. It's been
quite well organized. And the students who are leading the protests,
many of them are Palestinian and have family and friends
and loved ones who have been killed in Gaza, And
(10:02):
I think like to say that this is just some party,
and like students who want to feel in on the
hot topic of the day, is really dismissive to those experiences.
And also all the students who kind of feel the
pain of their classmates and an ongoing genocide and are
showing up to support.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Them, right because it like it's not just yeah, because
I feel like there's so many other things, like especially
for young people entering adulthood, looking at what their lives
are going to look like post academia, and being like,
is this even like a functioning society I'm entering, Like
I feel like there's so many levels of frustration that
young people are experiencing, especially on college, that this is
(10:41):
just like this swirling perfect storm of many things. But
right now seeing a NonStop like anyone on social media
is having to see just horrific image after horrific image
of what's happening in Gaza, and like, how I don't
understand how some people in the MEETERI are like and yeah,
they think it's like some fad rather than like these
people are deeply a fect by what is happening, and
they're trying to exercise some amount of power over the administration.
(11:06):
Because can you like also tell us, like what you
know the demands of like the why is also being
the bunch of people are coming in with all kinds
of takes, like they're paid actors or they're not, or
they don't know what.
Speaker 5 (11:17):
They're doing, or they don't even know what they want.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
But can you speak to specifically, like what the demands
are of the students of Columbia in regards to what
is happening.
Speaker 4 (11:25):
Yeah, so I think, like as you were saying, Maths,
what's happening outside the gates is very different than what's
happening inside the gates. So when you hear people like
yelling violent things, that's probably outside the gates and those
people aren't really in line with the actual demands of
the protesters inside the gates. Where I've been on campus
(11:46):
for the last two weeks and it's been very peaceful.
It's been students sitting in their tents and like doing
their homework and studying for finals. And they're there to
demand two main things. One is to disclose Columbia's investments
in Israel and the others to divest and Columbia has
had several movements for divestment, most notably in South Africa
(12:09):
and so the students are following a similar model for that.
And I think the third main call to action is
they want the university to give amnesty to students who
are arrested by the NPD. This is over one hundred
and eight people I think were arrested and those students
are being suspended, evicted with very very little notice or
(12:33):
even expelled. So they want amnesty for those students who
are peacefully protesting, literally just sitting on the lawn when
the NPD came and took them away.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
So when you talk about Columbia, students have pushed for
divestment in South Africa. That was during the apartheid period
of South Africa in the eighties and they successfully, you know,
they were on the right side of history. And you know,
we're we're able to push Columbia University to do that correct.
Speaker 4 (13:04):
Yeah, And the most recent development is that the students
last night took over Hamilton Hall, which is one of
the buildings on campus. And that's the same building that
students in decades past have taken over to demand investment
or protest against segregation and all these other big social
problems that looking back on it on the past it's
(13:26):
like of course, like of course they were right.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Yeah, well, let's take a quick break and we'll come
back and keep talking about this.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
We'll be right back and we're back and yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
So, I mean, it feels like we're seeing conflicting reports,
Like we're seeing reports that the student protesters are like
well funded sleeper cells, they're committed anti semi And obviously,
as you mentioned, like there is anti Semitic things being
chanted outside of the gates right, like as not not
(14:08):
a part of the student protests, but anti Semitism is real,
is a is.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
A real problem.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Obviously, it's not part of this movement that people want
it to be a part of, or that some some
forces won't want it to be a part of. But
can you just talk a little bit more about kind
of what you're hearing from from the students who you
who you're talking to and like sitting with you said,
(14:36):
they're they're studying. There's also people in pain who have
like lost family members to this conflict. But what yeah,
what what else are you saying?
Speaker 4 (14:46):
Yeah, so on on campus, it's like you walk in
and on one of the lawns, there's all these like
really right tents, like and largely it's like students kind
of sleeping there, study being there, reading there on the encampment.
At times, it's been really a joyful and happy environment.
(15:09):
I was speaking to someone of Pastinian heritage who said,
being on the encampment and getting messages from his loved
ones in Palestine and like having that connection being built
is one of the safest and like most kind of
liberated he's felt in many years. There's been a lot
of singing and dancing. There were performances from all the
(15:33):
various student dance groups, and there's been like a big
Shabbat dinner and celebrations for Passover. There was a moment
when for Shabbat dinner, some of the Jewis students who
had been suspended came to the gate, and then the
jewistudents who were inside also came to the gate, and
of course the suspended students weren't let in, but they
kind of shared their meal and their like their space,
(15:58):
even despite the divide. So it's been a lot of
just kind of like yeah, showings of solidarity, showings of joy,
and in terms of what people are saying. In the beginning,
before the NYPD came, it was a group of students
who had, I think, were very intensely supporting the pro
Palestine movement. After that, a lot of students who hadn't
(16:21):
been that involved came because they were like, no matter
what your stance on the issue is, it's not right
for a university president to call that NYPD in to
arrest its own students. Even when the NYPD, of all
people were like, they're totally peaceful, they're just getting cool.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
Yeah, they were actually pretty chill.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
You want to say, knock them for setting up tents,
It's like, no, get them, they're violent.
Speaker 5 (16:47):
They're like they're playing drums and stuff.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
Yeah, and violent. We have quotloose rules here.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
People might start dancing and men who knows what happened,
then freedom may abound.
Speaker 4 (16:58):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. So even then, MYPD, we're kind of
like why are we here? Like why are we doing this?
And I think that motivated a lot of students, a
lot of professors to come out and like stay in
the enkempment. And since then, I mean, the media again
portrays it as this constant chaos and violence and anti Semitism,
(17:20):
and yes, there is a lot of that happening, especially
outside of the Gates but largely it's been people just
like living life.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Yeah, And I think that's what's kind of it's so hard, right,
because there's been this you know, people talk about how
anti Semitism is being weaponized against people who are merely
trying to advocate for, you know, the autonomy and safety
of Palestinian people. And I'm like, what's that experience for
you and other students who are like caught in this,
(17:49):
Like you know, like you're you're morally outraged and you're
trying to express that and next thing, you know, you
find yourself being like confronted by the NYPD because that
the administration.
Speaker 5 (18:01):
Is calling for that help. Like does this make students?
Speaker 2 (18:04):
I mean, obviously the students are very resilient because it
doesn't seem like things are like diminished in any way.
Speaker 5 (18:11):
They're in fact, they're escalating.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
But like, is the feeling of like optimism, is it
outrage mixed with optim you know what I mean? Like,
what is what's that kind of emotion like for everybody involved?
Because yeah, Like to your point, it's become the focus
of the entire nation now, especially as campuses all over
the country are now also having their own encampments and
things like that, But like what, like what is that
(18:34):
feeling in terms of like what the end game is
or like how achievable the the goals of these encampments are.
Speaker 4 (18:43):
I think there is there is a sense of optimism.
It's hard to say that there's any one kind of
overarching feeling because there's so many different views. And I
certainly know students who are very perturbed about the whole situation.
There's people who like graduated during COVID and they really
(19:07):
wanted a graduation and it seems unlikely now that that
will happen, and everyone is kind of like running on
low sleep and high stress. But I think in terms
of the protesters themselves, they see that what they're doing
is echoing history. They are optimistic and determined, and from
(19:28):
my interviews with protesters, they're not going to take shit
from the university. The university has tried to get them
to stop. They came to the encampment with all these
forms saying like if you leave by two pm yesterday,
so April twenty ninth, then they'll be okay. Otherwise they'll
be suspended and maybe expelled and basically banned from university property.
(19:52):
But there is just a vote and it was immediately
like yes, we're staying. So I think that kind of
reflects the fact that these students are determined, they are optimistic.
And even in the South Africa protests, students occupied buildings
for days before the university agreed to divest or agreed
(20:14):
to like even think about divesting, so they realize it's
not a quick thing. They realize that I'll take sustained
time and effort.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
It's like wild to see because I just can't, like
I just think of my own experience going to college
like nearly twenty years ago or beat twenty years ago.
It's like my freshman year and you enter a college
campus like there to like explore ideas and to like
begin to express yourself and the ways that you're like
and all these things that you're learning by going to college,
(20:42):
and like to be in a situation now where that
environment has been completely like flipped on its head and
now it's like hostile and just is it's like really
fucked up to just see that and then just to
see like this, like to now see the administrations of
some of these schools just be hand in hand with
like militarized police just feels like a complete fucking just
(21:03):
just all kinds of fucked up that I'm like, that's,
oh my god, it must fucking suck so bad for
these kids.
Speaker 5 (21:09):
But at the same time, like they're they're driven.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
By a like a higher moral purpose than merely like
lamenting the fact that like what has our school become.
But also this is because they there's there's something very
real and they're they're tangible outcomes that they're seeking.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Really adds color to this idea that we've heard people
talk about the universities are you know, hedge fund and
real estate companies with like an academic apparatus attached to them.
It's like you're you're seeing that very sharp distinction where
the hedge fund, you know, billion dollar you know, endowment people,
(21:46):
and you know, the president to a lot of times,
the you know, Larry Summers was the president of Harvard,
like Larry's lover's the guy who is now just like
spokesperson for capitalism and fuck you to everybody else. But
like it really just kind of puts into perspective like
what these institutions actually are because it's not like the
(22:11):
faculty is out there being like, yeah, get the fuck
out of here and with the students, yeah, the learned people,
and then the more operational, capitalistic actors are at the top,
working with military police trying to Yeah.
Speaker 4 (22:30):
And I think that's also reflected in the stuff we learned. So, like,
we have this thing at Columbia called the Core curriculum,
So I went there as an undergrad as well, and
it's basically all the philosophy and literature that led us
to Western society. And in decades past it's been very,
(22:52):
very non critical, like there's been no discussions of colonialism
or all the things that have gone wrong.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
And actually students protested on Western by the way, I
should just clarify the listener.
Speaker 4 (23:03):
Yeah, yeah, that didn't translate to audio. So actually, like
I believe in the nineties, students protested to diversify that
whole Core curriculum and what we learned. So we added
a few scholars who are non Western, and that's still
(23:24):
a work in progress. It's still largely old, dead white men,
but we have read some like Edward said and Gandhi
and Franz Finan, and a lot of students are like,
what is the point of discussing all of this in
a critical light? If we can just sit in our
classrooms and like theoretically muse about this using big words,
(23:45):
but we can't go out and protest with the ideas.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
That we've learned, right, Yeah, it's a yeah, it's funny too,
because I've seen Fenon's work be also like weaponized to
be like that this guy is just also preaching violence
and like not really taking the totality of what friends
Fanan's work is to just be like and this is
the handbook that these students are operating of off of,
when I've seen more like fear mongerie type articles that
(24:09):
are completely trying to obscure like what's happening. And yeah,
it's like, you know, we see this all the time.
When people really begin to question and threaten the status
quo of something like you get this huge, outsized response
because you can see white supremacists have their demonstrations and
the police are escorting them and because that's just a
(24:33):
pillar of what American ult it's First Amendment man. But
then you have kids peacefully protesting and now we're talking
about like just full on goon squads coming out to
clear out like these these encampments, and it's just I mean,
it's like it's so wild because at the same time
you have these lead people in leadership are like what
what what's getting into these kids' minds. It's like the
(24:54):
ship that they're experiencing on the backs of the policies
you create.
Speaker 5 (24:58):
It's not a it's not a mystery.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
It's like they're made to live in the same world
and they have their analysis is just coming online much
quicker than generations past who didn't quite have all of
this information available to.
Speaker 5 (25:09):
Them, like at such speed. Yeah and efficiency.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
So yeah, thanks to TikTok's right, Trisia, I have to
assume all the protesters are just on TikTok at all times,
waiting and say they're not, but it is. I talk
a lot about how like movies are an important gauge
for like America's like conscious and unconscious biases, and just
(25:33):
thinking about like how protesters are treated in a lot
of mainstream movies, like especially in like the nineties.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
Just like think of like PCU.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
Have you guys seen PCU, Like where it just treats
it's like a university where it's like everything's like so
politically correct, and like all the protesters are just like
people are protesting, like what their lunch order is and
so dismissive. But even like in Forrest Gump, like when
he goes to the National Malt for like and like
there's a massive protest happening, like they just portray it
(26:06):
as like people following along in lines randomly, and like
they portray like the Black Panther Party is like there's
this one part where like a Black Panther leader is
like shouting at Forrest Gump about like what he's angry about,
and Forrest Gump leaves and the Black Panther leader keeps
shouting at the space Forrest Gump left, like he's like
(26:27):
an anger automaton. And it's just like there's this mainstream
sort of thing that's like we object to student protesters
on the fact that they're annoying to us, right, you know,
like they just like don't want to hear it, and
it's pretty frustrating. And I feel like you see some
of that coming out like where like there's just like
(26:50):
this rush of different angles that are critical of the
student protest movement. It's like they're you know, like I
was saying, it's like they're organized and like being paid
by terrorist organizations. They're actually just doing it for like Instagram.
They're actually like doing it so well that it's covering
(27:13):
up like some of the real news that's happening. That
was one that like I saw recently, there's like a
big op edge in I think it was the La
Times where they were like student protesters, well, well meaning
are like distracting from the real crimes that are being
committed over there, but like so what they should not
(27:34):
protest those crimes? Yeah, because like isn't that a mainstream
media problem, not a student's trying to draw attention to
the problem problem.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
You know.
Speaker 5 (27:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
I feel like there's also like this pettiness from the
media because in a way, the students are doing their body. Yeah,
they're imbiding the outrage. Even an objective journalist should have
or not necessarily that you have to editorialize and have
outrage within your reporting, but to at least objectively state
what is happening, why people are doing it, and like
what what the actual stakes are, rather than trying to
(28:07):
obfuscate and try and be like, well, you know, some
people said some really anti semitic stuff, So I think
all these kids are actually just anti semitic, And it's like,
did you have you actually, are you reporting on the
amount of Jewish students.
Speaker 5 (28:18):
That are also participating in these demonstrations.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Because that would also put a huge dent in that
very like you know, the lazy narrative that is used
to discredit what's happening. So yeah, I feel like there's
this part of it too that I mean, because in
a way I feel it like not like this envy,
but I'm I'm like, fuck, man, I didn't have my
shit together like that when I was in college, Like
(28:42):
I didn't, like I knew what was wrong with the world,
but they're just it just wasn't at that place where
it was there was there were opportunities to do that
all the time, like aside from like the Iraq War
and other demonstrations that I participated in, or like marriage
equality and things like that. But in that moment, I'm like,
so yeah, I'm like, damn man, like these they're fucking
(29:02):
doing the right fucking thing right now for the right reasons,
or you know, I'd say ninety five percent of the
kids are right, and.
Speaker 5 (29:09):
There's something to that.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
I feel like, I'm sure on some level of the
media like it forces them to look at themselves too
and be like these kids are looking at how power flows,
how hegemony works, how like finances work, how you know,
how US foreign policy puts people in danger, and they're
reacting to it in a way that you know, maybe
(29:31):
we spent too much time talking about WMDs and yellow
Cake and completely fucking missed the whole point, And now
you have a group of kids who were like, dude,
we're not falling for the same shit anymore. So anyway,
I'm just I'm I hope that this ends in the
way that the students want and for, in a way
that is justice oriented and not you know, just not
(29:54):
seeing just more just violence, state sanctioned violence.
Speaker 4 (29:58):
Yeah. Definitely think the protesters themselves have been a little
like upset that coverage on them, the fact that every
all the cameras in the country have turned towards them
rather than what's actually happening in Gaza. But also they
feel the need to speak up. So I guess that's
something like we have control over our media diets, so
(30:20):
we can also make sure to to keep the situation
in Gaza.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
I think they should just go home. They should just
go home.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
Yeah, you're actually making it like I can't even even
like think right now from your protesting just leave me
alone now. Amazing, Well, Trisha, thank you so much for
coming back, and hopefully we can we can stay in
touch and kind of keep talking to.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
You as the situation develops.
Speaker 5 (30:50):
But yeah, oh, and also you were going to mention
like we're you know, for people who are interested in
getting out object you understanding of what is happening, Like
where should you where do we want to direct people
to kind of begin their information gathering?
Speaker 4 (31:07):
So I think social media is just so poisonous in
terms of delivering news about all of this, so I'd
be very wary of that. I found actually one of
the best places to go is the student newspapers. So
I know, like the Columbia Daily Spectator might not be
in your normal media diet, but like the Columbia Newspaper
is doing an amazing job. All of the other student
(31:29):
newspapers across campuses are doing really really good jobs of reporting,
and often they're the only ones with access inside campus.
So check out those. And then I just wanted to
plug a Twitter account that some of my fellow journalism
students are running. It's CJS Underscore fact Check, and what
(31:50):
they're doing is basically looking at a lot of the
news on social media that's being posted, and a lot
of those things are like pictures from ages ago or
just complete misrepresentations of what's happening. So if you want
to see what's true and what's not, check out that
Twitter and follow it and they'll be keeping as updated.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
If you are going to go on social media, go
to that one. Yeah, because at least that one isn't
horrific and full of shit.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
I get all my sports news from the Columbia Student Newspaper,
so that's already consider me a follower already. That's where
I get my big gambling tips.
Speaker 4 (32:28):
We're sports team. So yeah, thanks, thanks so much, Jack,
Thank you mos.
Speaker 5 (32:35):
Yeah, yeah, definitely good seeing Nutricia again.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
Yeah, my heart there.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Yeah, and other students, uh, and I hope you know
you're just more power to all of you, because it's
this is not an easy thing, and this is like
one of the biggest societal issues in United States politics
that we've just never had a reckoning with and we're
seeing it play.
Speaker 5 (32:54):
Out in this way and I think it's just massively important.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
So yeah, yeah, all credit to to everybody being out
there and being solidarity with the Palestinian people. The kids
are all right, all right, those iPad kids, they're all right.
Speaker 3 (33:10):
There are just all right. And by all right, we
mean like C plus they're just they're they're all right.
Millennials still rule. We're a plus amazing. All right.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
I'm gonna do it for today, back tomorrow with the
whole last episode of the show. Until then, be kind
to each other, be kind to yourselves, get the vaccine,
don't do nothing about white supremacy, and we will talk
to you all tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (33:36):
Bye.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
B
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Jack O'Brien
Miles Gray
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