beyond ArtLess
“Beyond ArtLess" with Chris Gleason, Peter Haberman & Phil Ostrander is a podcast that explores the friendships and the community that exists in and outside of the arts and arts education. In each episode of Beyond ArtLess, one of the hosts reveals his mystery guest to the other two. What comes next is a fun-filled conversation revealing the joy of friendship and the artlessness of the hosts. Unlike most successful classrooms, this show is not well planned and probably not worth your time.
Episodes
In this episode of Beyond Artless, we welcome Dr. Sarah McKoin, educator, conductor, and scholar at Texas Tech University, for a conversation that blends musicianship, mentorship, and corndogs.
Dr. McKoin shares her path into higher education and conducting, reflecting on the moments and mentors that shaped her voice as a teacher and musician. From leading ensembles to preparing future musicians, she speaks candidly about...
Commuter, you are in for a treat! In this episode, we welcome the extraordinary Patricia Brumbaugh—a trailblazing conductor, educator, mentor, and lifelong advocate for musical excellence.
From her early days studying under legendary music educator John Whitwell to leading high school, collegiate, youth, and community ensembles across the country, Pat’s career reflects resilience, high standards, and deep humanity. Named ...
In this episode of the Beyond ArtLess Podcast, we dig into Common Time Pathways, a smarter, saner way to connect music students and colleges. Born from one band director’s “why is this so hard?” moment, the platform organizes recruiting data and levels the playing field for programs of all sizes—no dusty spreadsheets required.
Founder Eytan Wurman joins us to explain how their matching algorithm pairs students with colleg...
In this episode of Beyond Artless, we’re thrilled to welcome Steve Campbell, tubist with the Minnesota Orchestra, for a conversation that goes well beyond the low notes.
Steve shares what it’s really like to build a career in one of the world’s great orchestras—from the discipline and dedication behind orchestral excellence to the humor, humility, and humanity that keep music-making joyful. Along the way, he reflects on p...
Welcome to this week’s super spreader episode compliments of Phil Ostrander. After recovering from our Midwest illnesses your hosts welcome Andy Mast, Associate Dean of the Conservatory at Lawrence University. Andy shares his journey from a high school tuba player to a recognized educator and administrator, providing insights into effective mentorship, navigating career transitions, and fostering collaboration across mus...
This Beyond ArtLess episode was captured during our live recording sessions at the 2025 Midwest Clinic. We’re especially grateful to everyone who willingly stopped by to participate in an interview—and to those who accidentally wandered down the wrong aisle and found themselves part of the action, our sincere apologies!
REGISTER NOW:
BUILDING BETTER BANDS DAY (MAY 23):
https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/education
RISING M...
This Beyond ArtLess episode was captured during our live recording sessions at the 2025 Midwest Clinic. We’re especially grateful to everyone who willingly stopped by to participate in an interview—and to those who accidentally wandered down the wrong aisle and found themselves part of the action, our sincere apologies!
REGISTER NOW:
BUILDING BETTER BANDS DAY (MAY 23):
https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/education
RISING M...
This Beyond ArtLess episode was captured during our live recording sessions at the 2025 Midwest Clinic. We’re especially grateful to everyone who willingly stopped by to participate in an interview—and to those who accidentally wandered down the wrong aisle and found themselves part of the action, our sincere apologies!
REGISTER NOW:
BUILDING BETTER BANDS DAY (MAY 23):
https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/education
RISING M...
This Beyond ArtLess episode was captured during our live recording sessions at the 2025 Midwest Clinic. We’re especially grateful to everyone who willingly stopped by to participate in an interview—and to those who accidentally wandered down the wrong aisle and found themselves part of the action, our sincere apologies!
REGISTER NOW:
BUILDING BETTER BANDS DAY (MAY 23):
https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/education
RISING M...
This Beyond ArtLess episode was captured during our live recording sessions at the 2025 Midwest Clinic. We’re especially grateful to everyone who willingly stopped by to participate in an interview—and to those who accidentally wandered down the wrong aisle and found themselves part of the action, our sincere apologies!
FREE MUSIC:
Wisconsin Arts Celebration Project (Marie Douglas “Yellow Birds”)
A first for the podcast – a brother and sister tandem. Heidi and Dan (and their musician sister Sara) were destined for music from an early age – even though enrolling in college in unrelated fields. Their parents, Beth and Mike Joosten have been music education fixtures in Wisconsin – now taking that approach to their woodworking business. Heidi has been conducting multiple national tours of sound and screen shows, a...
Beyond Artless: Featuring Composer Jodie Blackshaw
In this episode of Beyond Artless, we are honored to welcome Jodie Blackshaw, internationally performed composer, educator, and creative voice whose music speaks with honesty, courage, and deep emotional resonance.
Jodie shares her journey into composition and the stories behind writing music that asks conductors and performers to truly create. From embracing vulnerability...
Once again, this podcast manages to leave our guest feeling both uncomfortable and slightly disoriented. Today’s show features the incredible trombonist, educator, and all-around human gem Tony Baker, Professor of Trombone at the University of North Texas. Tony came prepared to talk about his education, experiences, and mentors—what he didn’t expect was a surprise visit from the 1996 Valleyfair Beach Band (of which he wa...
A giant leap across the pond to Germany for the podcast today with our guest, Matt Turek. Matt has taught in just about every capacity one can - from elementary general and high school band in an urban environment to middle school suburban to now Grade 1-10 Music at an International School on the outskirts of Hamburg, Germany. Matt is not afraid of teaching at any level! Sadly, Peter should be afraid of endless prattl...
In this episode of Beyond Artless, we sit down with Tony Boldt, a passionate educator and musician from Kasson-Mantorville Schools, whose leadership and creativity continue to shape the musical experiences of young performers in his community.
Tony shares his journey as both a teacher and a performer—reflecting on how music shaped his life, what fuels his work in education, and the joys (and occasional chaos) that come wi...
Fresh off the heels of our first — and let’s be honest, probably our only — live episode recording at the Wisconsin State Music Conference, we’re back and better than ever with an incredible guest: dynamic tuba artist and educator Deanna Swoboda. From her early inspirations to her innovative “Band Blast Off” program, Deanna takes us on a journey of how she’s brought the mighty tuba into the global spotlight. We dive into...
The losing battle for interesting banter continues this week. Phil’s most interesting question is about fish fry. Chris inches closer to a podcast sponsorship. Peter details the finer points of Bismarck nightlife. Kristen Kirch saves our hosts from themselves to talk about a life in music education and restaurant ownership. Now director of both the middle and high school bands at Chequamegon, Kristen loves small tow...
This week on Beyond Artless, we welcome the dynamic and delightfully down-to-earth Alli Mottaz, an instrumental music educator, percussionist, and all-around creative powerhouse from Waconia, Minnesota.
Alli shares her journey from dreaming of playing for the WNBA to becoming an award-winning band director (with a soft spot for the Jonas Brothers and crocheting on the side). Now in her ninth year of teaching, Alli opens u...
With over 300 compositions to his credit, Willie Owens is a common name in music education. We sit down with Willie to chat about his 30 years of teaching band in Texas, his approach to honor bands, influential mentors, his recent honorary doctorate from VanderCook, presidential history, and corvettes. Peter brought not one but two beverages, Phil looked confused, and Chris continued to struggle with creating complete se...
Commuter – nearly every one of you has either conducted or played a chart written by the great Dean Sorenson. We get a chance to chat with Dean about subpar bus driving, almost missing a gig with Rosemary Clooney (George’s mom) and more. Phil was prepared (but you would never know it), Chris sets the bar low with his first question and Peter develops his jazz hands skill set. Specialist/coach Tim Gleason offers pointe...
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