Doug is joined by former Canisius star Billy Baron to discuss growing up as the son of former St. Bonaventure, Rhode Island and Canisius Head Coach Jim Baron, his recruitment by Virginia, transferring to join his dad at Rhode Island, the difficulty of processing his dad’s Rhode Island firing, re-joining him at Canisius, why transferring to Canisius over blue blood Purdue was the right decision for his career, and why he passed up a 2-way NBA deal in favor a Euroleague contract.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hey, what up. I'm Doug Gottlie. This is All Ball.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Hey, welcome in, and we're force recording this All Ball
from Green Bay, Wisconsin, where we're deep in the deep
in the throes of the practice time. And I'll tell
you what I'm gonna do, Like I'll give you some
practice updates and some where we are and how we've
done things and get more and more pods. But I
(00:32):
have really good shit for you on this podcast. Billy
Barron is a player that I covered when he was
in college. Obviously, his dad, jim kind of legend in
the business, Like just one of the most liked guys.
You know, there's lots of coaches, and every coach says, oh, yeah,
he's a great guy.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Great guy. Like no, no, no, no. The Barons are fucking good people.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
And you know, Jimmy's brother and Billy, they they got
had little swag to him. And Billy was a badass
when he played for his dad. I mean, first of
obviously played form in Rhode Island, but then played for
mcinisius as well. He averaged twenty four game his senior year,
then went on and he just recently announced his retirement
from basketball. So I reached out and I said, hey, man,
you want to do a pod? He said hell yeah.
(01:11):
So that's what we did without further ado, Here's part one.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Billy barron earliest memory of basketball is.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
Wearing one man Saint Bonaventure Dad's game playing temple. Who
was there, who was on the team, was on the team.
But the Riley Center, Uh, that's that's immediately first thoughts
of basketball.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Riley Center used to be nasty. Okay, nasty nasty, like,
well this.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Is before you Okay, did you know that Rafonso Ellis
missed like a year and a half of college basketball
of the heart problem.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
It was no, it was no.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Was Monny Williams, Sorry Monny Williams. Lafonso was ineligible. It
was like the greatest caver. So, MANI what happened was
when Hank Gathers died, everybody in basketball freaked out and
they started doing MRIs on people's hearts whatever, and so
they found that he had some hard rhythmia, so they
shut him down for like a year whatever. So his
(02:15):
first game back was at the Ryan Center. And this
is from Fran McCaffrey's IOWA head coach was an assistant
and he told me the story, He's like, dude, the
Ryan Centers. That was the craziest place we've ever played,
he said, right before tip off, they're like, hey, money
be be.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
Like, oh, Mark, that sounds about right. That sounds right.
That's it, man, that's it. That place is great.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
What was your dad like with you growing up as
far as who.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
He was cool? Like, I think me and my brothers
always like had this love for the game, so we're
just always around it. We just wanted to be there,
Like he didn't have to ask us to come to practice.
We just wanted to be there, and I think that
was the most important thing. So like my dad, I
don't think he ever told me and my brother one time,
like you got to go to the gym, like we
were already there. So he was just like honestly, he
(03:10):
was just like dad. Like he wasn't a coach or anything.
He would just sit there and rebound and just pass
us the ball. And he wouldn't like say, hey, you
got to shoot it like this. No, he would just
sit there and rebound and just like shut up and
just like all right, if you want to get a
five hundred shots, he just sit there and rebound for you.
Like it was you really couldn't ask for anything else,
Like I'm a guy, like I'll be the first one
to say like I'm super stubborn. Like my brother tried
(03:31):
to teach me how to shoot, and he was a
perfect person to teach someone how to shoot growing up.
And I was like, no, no, I got it. I'm gonna
do it my wife, and I was shooting like Larry Bird,
like over here, and then finally it came right here.
So it was good that my dad was kind of
like that because I probably would have been like Dad,
like shut up, you know what I mean, Like just
let me play, you know what I mean? Because when
you're overbearing, it's like the game loses. It's fun, you
know what I mean. It's like you want to figure
(03:52):
it out. And that was kind of like the challenge
for myself.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
You went to high school?
Speaker 4 (03:57):
Where went to high school in Rhode Island, Perkin, And
then I did a post grade here at Worcester Academy.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Wait, wait, so your dad when you're in Rhode Island,
your dad is coaching Rhode Island. Yeah, you are right, yep,
what Like Rhode Island is a small state, but a
freaking passionate state, right, Yeah, and there's Roady in the PC, right,
and there's back before we call them haters, there were
haters out there, right. What's it like to be son
(04:23):
of a coach and and pretty well known player.
Speaker 4 (04:28):
It comes out like a lot of scrutiny for sure,
Like you feel like everything's kind of given to you.
But I think when you play for your dad, my
dad always says the best when anyone asks him. It's
like your son has to be the worst player in
the team, or he has to be the best player,
Like there's no one between you know, And if you're
the best player, you've got to be the hardest worker.
So like if there's if you're in the middle and
you're battling for playing time, then it gets a kind
(04:49):
like a little Harry, you know what I mean. But
my dad always kind of always says that, and I
think it's true, like as long as you're the best player,
you're working as hard as you can, you don't have
too much to worry about. You can filter out, you know,
the nonsense that's going on around you. But I wasn't,
like I think I'm matured a little later, so it
kind of got to me a little bit. My brother
(05:10):
was pretty much like he played for my dad too.
It was like super focused me. I kind of listened
to a little bit more to the noise. I don't
know if you know this actually started at Virginia.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
I know I want to get I wasn't get into college,
and I'm talking about more high school because high school
is interesting, right because your dad's a college coach, and
like you know, it's like high school coaches like I.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Like, do I how do I coach this kid? What's
it like? And you know, like high school.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Students like they don't know how to handle, Like college
is harder because the crowds are bigger. But yeah, I
mean you know, like Smithy's and Merps are in fucking
Rhode Island, like they'll say some shit to you, like
makes mechanics drop the wrench, right for sure?
Speaker 4 (05:50):
For sure, my brother was that you or I was
actually while I was in high school, was the best
player on your I It was like all a ten
first team and all that stuff. So like he did
set the bar. So it was kind of like you're going,
you got to go for this, like there's no other option,
and not to say there was an option I gave
myself an option, but you really felt like you had
to carry the torch and you had to take it
(06:12):
a level further, you know what I mean. So the
fact that I was, I was working so hard a
lot at that point in time in the league. Let
me tell you, the league was not crazy hard. I
mean the Rhode Island League, Like if you win by twenty,
it's a bad game, you know what I mean. So,
like the competition wasn't that great, Like when I went
to Worcester it was a completely different level, but it
(06:33):
was fun, Like I went back on it. Like the
pressure you have, like since I played ten years pro,
Like the pressure and anxiety you get from like you know,
going paycheck to paycheck, like month to month on deals
because Europe's crazy, Like looking back in high school, that
was nothing.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Like you'll love this. So I have a guy do
you ever play against Jerry Smith played Louisville.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
That's very familiar.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Okay, like a six to two blackguard. He's the best.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
He's from Milwaukee and he just joined my staff and
like we have him like as a mentor in like
a mentor role, and Jerry's the best. And like so
I had Jerry talk to the team last week and
then I said like, hey, Jerry, uh, like, when you
your biggest contract, what was it?
Speaker 3 (07:21):
You know? He's like, you know, a couple hundred grand
And I said, was it guaranteed? He's like yes. It
was like but would they cut would they cut you
in October? He's like yes, would you get your money? No?
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Right, And these guys jaws dropped, like like I don't
think you guys understand the real world, Like European basketball
is the real world where shit ain't fair and they
get rid of you. I want to get I want
to get to that. Okay, but let's let's go chrono logical.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
So you get down playing in high school a little
bit of late bloomer. Why did you go to Worcester
and not go right to college?
Speaker 4 (07:53):
My brother went to Worcester and like my brother went
from Division two coming out of the same high school.
I went to like Jim who was at the games,
and I was like, oh, you know, me being five
years younger, I'm like, oh, that makes a lot of sense.
So it took his game like a long ways.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
Now.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
When I was coming out of high school, I was
a little bit more physically developed than my brother. So
I had offers from like Seaton Hall, Rutgers, Davidson, so
I had better looks than my brother did. I think
my brother's best offer was, like I remember Assumption. It
was like the school. So I went, and I had
a really good relationship with my prep school coaches Eddie Riley,
I don't know if you know him and Jamie Sullivin,
like two great guys, like great fucking guys. And I
(08:32):
had a great year, like I think it was like
twenty eight twenty nine, the Nepstack class A being like yeah,
it was like.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Who do you guys have? Who else do you guys have?
Speaker 4 (08:42):
We didn't have much that We had Ty Olander who
wo ended up getting hurt and he was going to Yukon.
We had we had a guy who played for the Steelers,
Kanaan Severin, but we weren't really like that stat which
voted well for me because my usage was like through
the roof. But we're playing every team once it in
Brewster Saint Thomas Moore, Sure, I mean they got eight
(09:03):
to ten Division one players, so it was fun man
like that. I was just like that's when basketball truly
was just like fun, you know, like just go out
there and hoop, and I do I missed that, man.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
You know, it's funny. It's it's interesting to say this.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
So I have a I have a player's name is
Isaiah Miranda and Isaiah's actually from.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
From Island right Tucket.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Yeah seven one, yeah, steven one two fifteen amazing athletes
and you know, like he's I can.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
Just tell when he's stressed, you know.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
And I just said, hey, dude, like because you know,
like he was on people's draft boards a couple of
years ago.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
He struggled, he bounced around a little.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Bit, and I said, do you remember, like when was
the most fun you had playing basketball?
Speaker 3 (09:50):
It's like, what do you mean?
Speaker 2 (09:51):
I was like, well, like when you were a kid,
Like where would you go and just hoop and shoot
and mess around? And he's like, yeah, a park in
Pawtucker with my boys. I was like, wasn't it fun?
He's like, yeah, I was super fun. I was like,
how about we try and just emulate that, like just
going to the gym, put some music, gun, you know,
set the set, set the set the gun on whatever
seting you want, and just get shots up and just
(10:13):
have fun.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
He's like I can do that. It's like, yeah, exactly
what you need to do. It's supposed to be.
Speaker 4 (10:21):
Fun, yes, you know, like the fun. The best moments
I had was like my high school game me the Keys,
and I used to go in there like crazy hours,
like I don't know, I was in there at like
two am one time, or like you know, late late
late now, like ten or eleven PM, like and just
you just throw music on Like that was like what
I remember about my childhood is like my boys would
(10:42):
be out like partying or whatever, you know, drinking whatnot.
And I was like, oh, like I'm gonna be a
little different here, and I'm gonna go do something that
I don't think anyone else is doing. I'm gonna go
work out at eleven at night and go get shots up.
And it's like those are the moments you look back on,
you remember the most, and it's like, you know, that's
why you go Honestly, it's like you go full sort
of like that's why you go through the bullshit of
(11:04):
the European life, because like you're doing it for your
younger self. Your younger self sacrifice their childhood, so now
you don't cave in when europe those it's bullshit at you,
you know what I mean, And it's like.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
I see, okay, so wait, so here's a question. Okay,
and we'll get to like you're tiring from professional basketball.
You sacrifice your child. It's a great way to put it.
I don't know if you actually did sacrifice, because I
think you end up having a better childhood than those
dudes that went out in party.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
But still it is it is a sacrifice, right, yeah?
Was it worth it?
Speaker 2 (11:35):
You didn't make the league, So some people are like, well,
if you make, you have to make the league to
make it worth it.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
That's a that's a great point because the league was
like end all.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Everything all I want to do, like I tell you
all the time, Like I like, I just actually just
wanted a jersey with the logo with my name on
the back, Like I never got to that point. Like
I did summer league with the Lakers, I did some
mini camp with them, I did a mini camp with Minnesota.
I never and I wasn't I wasn't fucking you as
a score.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
I couldn't.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Like I actually think you fit way better now with
the NBA, the ability to stretch the defense. But again,
like I just want to do it to say I
fucking did it right.
Speaker 4 (12:16):
That's such a good point. It's such a good question.
It's a great question. Like now that wasn't worth it, Yes,
because I think I set up when I learned so
many things about like life and just like hard work
and sacrifice and going these crazy places and putting up
(12:37):
with this bullshit and you get sick skin things don't
go your way. And like I told you, I was
stubborn growing up, but like that stubborness drops when like
my coach needed me to do something else, and if
I didn't do it, if I didn't play a different
type of role, then my ass is gone. I'm not
going to make another paycheck. And it's like at the
end of the day, it's like I am the leader
(12:57):
of the household, like I am supposed to provide for
my family. So like we got to be a little
smart here. But it was definitely worth it because I
think I also financially set myself up with my family
up better than I ever thought. You know, I couldn't
any other profession. Luckily I was able to reach the
top level in Europe. But like I had a two way.
This is the thing that I'm speaking for a lot
(13:18):
of Europeans when I say it's Europeans. When I say Europeans,
I'm saying, like Americans playing over in Europe.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
It's like you know, when you go to a bar
over here down the street and you say, you know,
I play overseas, They're like, oh, yeah, I know some
guy that plays overseas. Yeah he plays over and yeah,
like he plays in Iceland. I'm just like, oh, like, hey,
do you play against him. I'm like, no, I haven't
played against him. No, I haven't. And people don't realize that,
like there's levels over there for sure, you know, like
(13:46):
there's a thousand overseas teams and there's only eighteen EuroLeague teams.
So in twenty sixteen I turned down sixteen or fifteen,
I turned on a two way from Atlanta the first
year of the two way, and I had a deal
lined up in Turkey and it wasn't like a very
sexy deal, but it was very smart, small team called
(14:09):
Eska Shier, like very small team in the First League,
and it was actually one of the better years of
my career, believe it or not. But I was smart
because my brother also played overseas as well, so I understood,
you know, the market of it and stuff like that.
But I had a chance to play for Atlanta on
a two way and they were the worst team in
the league that year, and the kid who ended up
taking the contract ended up playing thirty forty games. And
(14:30):
now he was Josh mcguett, a little lefty, so good.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
So now that's like, that's like, that's like TJ McConnell.
Like TJ McConnell got in because the Philly was the
worst team in the league.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
That was when they fucking tanked and he just played
his ass off and like now.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
He's in the league for like a decade and he's
got like confidence, Like he's kind of a dude.
Speaker 4 (14:55):
You know, that's all you know. But sorry, I rub
salt in like being able to answer that question, whether
it bothers you or not, Like answering that question at
the bar, did you play in the NBA. It's like, no,
I did it, but like, I'm sorry. There's a lot
of players who were on two way contracts that a
lot of guys in the early have made much more
money than them, and I have had much more successful
(15:15):
careers By how you judge it. Now, the casual fan
is all about did you make the NBA or did
you not make the NBA. And it's just like they
don't know anything. They don't know what the yearly is
and how competitive it is. And you know, if you
can live with that, which I can now like I'm
more mature, it's like whatever. But you know before I
definitely had a problem with that. But in the to
(15:36):
answer your question, yes, it was all worth it.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Okay, so you're you're balling it at in in prep school?
Speaker 4 (15:48):
Yeah, why Virginia. I was committed to my dad and
I had other off like good offers, and I was like, no,
I'm going to play for my dad. I'm going to
play for my dad because my brother played for my
dad and they had a really good run. But like
they were I want to say, they were the first
four out in like Lenardi's bracketology, like three years in
a row. It was insane. They just like couldn't get
(16:10):
to the tournament. So I was like, all right, I'm
going to be the savior, like I want to do this.
I want to stay close to home or want you know,
And uh, I remember one day we played a game
somewhere random and in that in that league all we
played at Winterton and for some reason, Tony Bennett was
at the game, and like there was like five people
of the game, and Tony Bennett and Richie McKay, who's
associate head coach, we're both at the game, and I
(16:30):
had no idea they were there for me. All of
a sudden, we get back to Worcester, my head coach
and my assistant coach both are like, Billy, come with me,
and they both like sat me down. They're like, hey,
Tony was there for you. He wants you for next year.
Like we've already spoken to your mom and your brother,
like he really wants you. We think you got to
do it. And I'm like whoa, Like out of nowhere,
I'm like whoa. I didn't expect that. So everyone in
(16:54):
my family besides my dad, were like you gotta go now.
You can't play for dad because Jimmy, my older brother,
my dad used still like go at it. Yeah, of
course college, And so I ended up being like, all right,
I'm going to visit. Obviously I loved this grade school.
And then I was like, all right, I guess I'll
go like kind of like that, like all right, I guess,
all right, he'll go just leave me alone type deal.
(17:16):
And I ended up going. I wasn't I was honestly
when I was there, I really didn't want to be there.
And I love Tony like I still. I literally just
texted his assistant the other day when he, you know,
text me about retirement. I said, please tell Tony I'm
sorry still, like I can't get over the fact that
I transfer, because like he didn't deserve that, Like Tony's
(17:36):
like the nicest guy in the world. Yeah. So I
ended up leaving like halfway through my freshman year just
because my dad's team struggle at that point and my
dad was on the hot seat. So I was like,
I'm not going to sit here at Virginia and watch
my dad get fired, Like that's just not going to happen.
So I made the move to go back to Rhode
Island to try and save his drift. And then what happened,
(17:57):
and then I sat out, so those you know, that
was still a time we had to sit out a
full year. Set out side freshman year, first part of
my sophomore year, we graduated everyone. My first game my
sophomore year were one and eleven and it didn't end
up well. My dad still had another year in his contract.
But but he got fired, you know, right after our
last game, which I didn't see coming. He didn't see
(18:19):
coming either, So then you know, what's that?
Speaker 1 (18:23):
What's that?
Speaker 3 (18:23):
What's that? Like?
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Like again, like it's really interesting because I've always obviously
my dad was a coach, and I didn't know.
Speaker 4 (18:33):
Did he coach you in high school? College?
Speaker 2 (18:35):
No, he coached in college and then he coached me
in AU but they got fired, Like the only time
in my life he got fired was like eighty four
or eighty three. They got fired at Loalmeach State. He
was text winners assistant. Okay, but I didn't I mean,
it wasn't like I mean, I was like eighty three.
I was seven years old, so I didn't know anything,
like just and then he went to Oregon State and
(18:57):
then he bounced around and then you know, then he
got into like travel basketball and had a real job.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
That he started with my mom and then he just
always coached AAU.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
So but the point is, like I have my brother's
been on staff, my brother's been demoted, fired, hired, whatever,
So I have obviously a sensitivity to it. But it's
totally different when your dad's head coach, your brother played
for him, you went to high school in the state.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
It's a small little state.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
You're at the state institution and you're playing for him,
and then he fired, and like, look, I mean I
didn't I wasn't there, but because I had to leave
Notre Dame because I got in trouble, Like I tell
fran McCaffrey all the time, like I'm sorry, I got
you guys fired at Notre Dame. Right, I firmly believed
if I didn't get in trouble, we would have made
(19:45):
the NCAA tournament and everybody'd stayed gamefully employed.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
What's that like? Forget about now?
Speaker 2 (19:54):
What was it like then for nineteen year old twenty
year old you to says all.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
That I was walking out of my dorm. Is we
played UMass on a Saturday afternoon, Our season was over.
We'd even make the conference tournament obviously. Oh oh it
was nasty this year.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Well, I mean listen, Notre Dame we made We played
the first Thursday games at the Big East Tournament, played Syracuse.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
They went to the national championship game that year. But
I just.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
Remember like walking around Times Square and they're like, no, no, dame,
And when do you guys play? Like, yeah, we already played,
we're done. But to not get to go, that's that
sucks even worse.
Speaker 4 (20:33):
So anyway, like, well, my dad the year before graduated
the winning this class in school history. So I thought, now,
I told you they were first four out that three
years ago. My brother's junior year, they were fifteenth in
the country. I mean, like his senior year, they were
like right, there's you know, the year after he graduated,
they were they went to the final four and you
know the n t which doesn't mean too much, but
(20:55):
no it does, it does, you know, But not to
that fan base when they only won is y tournament.
I mean Jim Herrick takes him to the NTA Tournament
to lead eight in ninety eight, they think they should
be there every single year, even though that's the reason
why my dad ended up being there because of all
the violations. So they forget. But I remember walking out
of my dorm it was like nine in the morning
(21:15):
on Sunday and I was meetinghim at church and I
get out and he's parked right by my car. What
do you what are you doing? He was, you don't
get in and he's just like looks at me. And
my dad was there for eleven years, and he's like,
I just I just got fired, and like we just
like look at each other. We just started bawling, Like
we just started bawling, and like we just hugged each
(21:37):
other and we just sat there and hugged each other
for like thirty minutes and just like crying. And it
was just like and we just sat there and I
was just like, now, what like what we what do
we do? Not you do? Like what do we do?
And I sat there. Dan Hurley ends up taking the job,
and I ended up having to go to his press
(21:58):
conference in front of everyone. I felt like it was
my dad's funeral. Like everyone was applauding Dan making a speech.
I literally felt like it was my dad's funeral. And
I'm like sitting there, like they made me sit there
like front row, and I'm like watching this. I'm like
you gotta be kidding me, Like this is this? This
is ridiculous, and right fucking in, all the news stations
(22:20):
came to interview me. Literally like once Dan's speech was over,
and I actually started like losing. I started like crying,
and then like one of the news reports, Bill Reynolds
just like pulls me out of there because he sees
me starting to lose it and he's just like he
just takes me back, and I'm like, all right. So
then Dan comes up to me after the press conference.
Let's go to the office and talk. Oh my god,
(22:43):
I don't really feel like talking right now, but all right,
let's do it. And uh, he pulls me and he
pulls me into my dad's office and we're sitting there.
I'm like, I'm like, coach, I can't. I can't talk
to right here. I can't. He goes why. I was like, coach,
I just cleaned this office out. I can't sit here
and talk to you here. We have to go. So
(23:05):
we went somewhere else, and like, over those next like
three four weeks, me and Dan had like so many
heart to hearts, Like I mean, we would talk for
like hours at a time, and he would tell me
about his situation growing up and his problems growing up
in him have an older brother and coach and all
that stuff, and like he like related to me a lot.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
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Speaker 2 (23:38):
I gotta tell you, like the to the two guys,
I mean, that's one of the.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
Two guys that was Jesse talked to this amazing thing.
Who's there? Because Danny. I played against Danny when he
was a seat hall and he was fucking good. But
every time he brought the ball.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
To the floor, Bobby he's better, or Bobby he's better,
just like them.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
And then the other guy, the other guy was like,
that was Kevin Willard. You know about people. People were
get that Kevin.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
He actually had one more year of eligibility to play
for his dad and he instead went to work for
the Celtics. Oh really yeah, because the Pittsburgh bands were
so nasty to him, so nasty to him, you know,
like they were when they lose, they just fucking bow
him and they.
Speaker 4 (24:19):
Were so shitty to him.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
So okay, So was there like, hey, maybe I could
play for Danny or was no?
Speaker 3 (24:27):
Like what was it honestly going on inside your head?
Speaker 4 (24:31):
So I told him, like then he had one meeting
with me and the whole staff and Bobby was on
his staff, actually his assistant coach at the time. So
talking all him, I'm like, yeah, I'll give it a shot,
Like I'll see what I can do here for the
next couple of weeks, I'm going to school, might as
well just work out with them. But I like, I
like left the school completely. I was sleeping at my
house like fifteen minutes away, and that was a tough
time for me, man, Like I couldn't really sleep at night,
(24:52):
Like just a lot of stuff was going on. So
I remember, like Dan used to have like these six
am lifts in the workouts right after and I just
showed up one time. He just looked at me, like
how you doing. I'm like, coach, I haven't slept, and
that was it. And like I remember though, that was
some of the best basketball I played. We used to
do these workouts where Dan's workouts are like, you know,
(25:13):
a lot of yelling, shouting, you going, you know, balls
to the wall. Like we got in the circle one
time and one of the guys when these are all
my dad's players, so he's just weeding them out right,
and one of them they had he had his heel
on the circle in the middle and I was like,
the fuck out of here, You're not in the circle.
(25:33):
He just kicked them out of the gym, and I
was like all right, okay, and I was just like
you and everything. At that point, I was just like
kind of like cold. I was like, oh sure, why not.
And at that point I was so mad at everyone
that I resented my teammates too. I like blamed I
blame myself, but I also like took it out of them.
I took it out of my teammates right.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
Not healthy.
Speaker 4 (25:52):
And we would play like not healthy at all, like
it was bad and like we would.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Play, but you had that thing like and I'm sure
you have this in life when things are going and
shitty elsewhere, like for some reason like basketball become you
get better at basketball.
Speaker 4 (26:04):
I wouldn't sleep and I go in these workouts and
I was just like I was annihilating them, like I
was beating them like twenty one to two to three
to five, like we played one on one on one
on one. Yeah, I was talking shit and I was
like looking at Dan like I'm fucking like nuts, like
I'm crazy. Uh. He named me like captain like right away,
(26:24):
like he remember me saying lock froom. You know, whatever
Billy does, you do what he says, he follow him,
blah blah blah and all that. But I didn't hear.
I didn't realize this until ten years later. My mom was,
you know, in the background, because I was as a
playing for my dad was a walk on. And I
have a scholarship. So my mom's in the back like
calling Dan, calling the athletics director, are you going to
(26:45):
offer my son a scholarship? They were never going to
offer me a scholarship, so I didn't. I never knew that.
So at the end of the day, I called, I
called the idea that you know fired my father. I said, hey,
like tell coach, tell Dan early like I'm not, I'm
not playing and then you know, I'm not. I'm not
gonna be at r I and like that was it.
(27:07):
And then you know, that was on to the next chapter,
which was came down between Providence Purdue in Cancius of course, right.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
So you want to go to Providence because you want
to play Rhode Island, correct, Like basically you want to
beat the shit out of Rhode Island.
Speaker 5 (27:27):
Fair, Yeah, who's that province? Then ed okay, so we
have a meeting with ed and we're sitting there. I'm like,
I can't believe I'm doing this right now. You know,
it's like what my brother was sitting there with him
and and he's like yeah. And I'm like, yeah, you know,
coach like I don't know like you or I won't
let me transfer here because we're playing them. He looks
(27:49):
at me, he goes, man, I don't want to play
them anyways, don't worry about it. I was like, all right, cool, cool,
so uh and then went to Purdue and went on
to visit there, and there's like immaculate you know, Matt
Painters awesome.
Speaker 4 (28:05):
Yeah, I put it, put me to a workout, and
he like loved me because the assistant brought me in.
So I had to prove myself to coach pay Greg Guard. Yeah,
he brought me in. So then I had to work
out and I was like I couldn't missed. And then
all of a sudden, you know, Coach Painter's eyes were like, yeah,
we need you, we want you. So I went from
directly from there to Canisius to visit can I love Canesius,
(28:28):
but my dad brought me there and then he knows
I just wanted to visit the Purdue and they won't
be really badly and my dad Canacius. I'm like, like,
this is this is what you want to pick over Purdue.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
This is it.
Speaker 4 (28:46):
So honestly though, my brother came in and said, listen,
like you want to go to the NBA, you want
to all these things. He goes, if you're good enough,
they will find you. European teams will find you. He
would be your best chance to go and just go
get buckets and show you're doing. And that was the
best advice I could have got because when I when
I decided to go to Canisius, like the work ethic
(29:09):
just went through the roof because now here's the chip
on the shoulder just got even bigger, way bigger because
they just fired my father. They didn't offer me, you're right,
didn't off me a scholarship. Okay, I'm going to Canisius.
I started acc now here. I am a walk on
technically at Canesius because I'm playing for my father. And
I'm like, this isn't how I'm going to go out,
Like there is just no way this is how I'm
(29:31):
going to go out, Like I see a professional career
in my eyes, Like this is how I've worked my
whole life, like this is what I want to do,
and it was. Honestly, it was great, like I still
believe to this day. Like I don't want to jump
too far ahead, but I try to tell players. Now,
if I had stayed in Virginia and let's just say
I averaged eight to ten points a game, which would
be really good in Tony Bennett system, and we went
(29:52):
to the Final four, Let's say we would go to
Final four. I don't make as much money or I
don't have as many pre draft work out as if
I went to Canesius and averaged the twenty four that
I did.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
You're, by the way, you're making my recruiting pitch right now.
Speaker 4 (30:07):
But I try to tell you, and this is what
my brother was telling me during that time before I
committed to Canecious, and it was the best thing for
me because I got to prove myself. And then you know,
when you average twenty four, you leave college with a
bunch of confidence like let's go, like, let's keep we
got That's the part.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
That's the part that I don't think enough people understand.
It's not about the awards, the attention, whatever you have
zero chance of being a professional basketball player if you
aren't crazy confident, especially when you're like you're, you know,
six to six foot white guy, Like you got no chance, none.
(30:48):
And what happens is guys go to guys go to
a level that's too high or even the level they
can play at. But like you got to adjust your
game because you're not the best player and you're not
the go to guys, so you got to kind of
fit in and just figure out how to get on
the court.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
Which is great and it teaches.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
You about being a teammate and teaches it, but in
terms of professional basketball, like, man, that makes it really
hard because then you get to the pros and like
I tell guys, all the type okay, so remember you're
there's eight seconds lay across mid court, set of ten,
there's twenty four second shot cock, set of thirty three
point lines, deeper, lane lines wider, So all of the
(31:28):
rules make it harder. Everybody you play against is better, longer, bigger,
better smarter than you've ever played against.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
And you got to do it in a condensed amount
of time.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
You don't get like thirty four minutes to like figure
out miss your first five or six. Don't worry, I'm
gonna get five or six right, right, doesn't work out
that way. You're not accomplishing shit unless you are one.
You've had the reps of you know, the volume of reps,
and then you you have supreme self confidence. And then
kind of we go through the Hey who's your favorite player? Like, ah,
(31:59):
Damian Lillard, Oh that's funny. He went to Weaver's Day, right,
Steph Curry, he went to Danansen, he went to Lehigh.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
Yes, but how'd your ego handle? Like? Is it Virginia
Rhode Islands.
Speaker 4 (32:17):
So now when I'm asked, hey, where'd you go to college?
I gotta tell like, I went to three schools and
end up Cancius blah blah blah, all that stuff, and
it's you know, I love Canacius. They I met my
wife there. Great, I love I love it. But you know,
growing up, maybe it's not the place you you intend.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
To close your eyes and go like, I'm at Canius, Yeah,
and we're playing in the mac Championship and we're going
against Sienna right with the Patroons used to playing at
the was It Times Union Center?
Speaker 3 (32:46):
And I hit the shot. They're like that isn't anybody's dream,
Let's not.
Speaker 4 (32:52):
Yeah, I mean, I've gotten over it the way things
turned out. Like I'm extremely grateful for all things turned out,
and like I'll look at my kids, like I got
three boys. I hope they I hope they play basketball, honestly,
and I'm a look at them like when shit goes
wrong for them, I'm like, listen, like this is my story,
this is that, and they'll roll their eyes and like
it's true, Like I picked them. I could have quit basketball.
My dad got fired all of a sudden. Here I
(33:12):
am junior year on a third school, going to Canisius,
and yet my goal the whole time was to go
to the NBA. Was it be a professional. And here
I am my junior year with two years left, and
this is where I'm at. And it's like you can
either you know, pack up your bags and be like
all right, I'll just kind of like, you know, try
to average eight to ten, you know whatever, trying to
have fun, or you can go for it, you know
(33:33):
what I mean? Which one is it going to be?
Speaker 2 (33:37):
All Right, that's it for part one of our pod.
I think it's probably gonna be a three part pod
with Billy Barron. Pretty awesome stuff, reminded The Doug Gottlieb Show,
broadcast live daily on Fox Sports Radio on the iHeartRadio app.
We go from three to five eastern twelve two Pacific.
You can download that as a podcast or even download
this podcast.
Speaker 3 (33:59):
And I I have so many thanks for.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
People who they continue to make this not only this
pod possible, but but this gig is special. One I
mentioned a lot meets uh in the in I'll mention
it in the podcast.
Speaker 3 (34:16):
Scott and Kelly Perry, you guys have been awesome.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
We're starting to, you know, work some some business with
with the gun, which of course is a basketball I
guess feeding training device if you will. And then, as
many of you have noticed, our good friends at Liquid
Death have hopped on board as well. UH with the
program and UH and with me specifically, and uh, I've
(34:40):
been murdering my thirst ever since. Well listen, we got
more all balls to come. Okay, so make sure you
tell a friend download, rate, download, subscribe.
Speaker 3 (34:48):
And rate review and uh.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
In a couple of days we'll drop part two, and
a couple of days after that we'll drop part three.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
It gets better and better. Thanks so much for listening.
I'm Doug got like this is all ball app
Hey, what up. I'm Doug Gottlie. This is All Ball.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Hey, welcome in, and we're force recording this All Ball
from Green Bay, Wisconsin, where we're deep in the deep
in the throes of the practice time. And I'll tell
you what I'm gonna do, Like I'll give you some
practice updates and some where we are and how we've
done things and get more and more pods. But I
(00:32):
have really good shit for you on this podcast. Billy
Barron is a player that I covered when he was
in college. Obviously, his dad, jim kind of legend in
the business, Like just one of the most liked guys.
You know, there's lots of coaches, and every coach says, oh, yeah,
he's a great guy.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Great guy. Like no, no, no, no. The Barons are fucking good people.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
And you know, Jimmy's brother and Billy, they they got
had little swag to him. And Billy was a badass
when he played for his dad. I mean, first of
obviously played form in Rhode Island, but then played for
mcinisius as well. He averaged twenty four game his senior year,
then went on and he just recently announced his retirement
from basketball. So I reached out and I said, hey, man,
you want to do a pod? He said hell yeah.
(01:11):
So that's what we did without further ado, Here's part one.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Billy barron earliest memory of basketball is.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
Wearing one man Saint Bonaventure Dad's game playing temple. Who
was there, who was on the team, was on the team.
But the Riley Center, Uh, that's that's immediately first thoughts
of basketball.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Riley Center used to be nasty. Okay, nasty nasty, like,
well this.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Is before you Okay, did you know that Rafonso Ellis
missed like a year and a half of college basketball
of the heart problem.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
It was no, it was no.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Was Monny Williams, Sorry Monny Williams. Lafonso was ineligible. It
was like the greatest caver. So, MANI what happened was
when Hank Gathers died, everybody in basketball freaked out and
they started doing MRIs on people's hearts whatever, and so
they found that he had some hard rhythmia, so they
shut him down for like a year whatever. So his
(02:15):
first game back was at the Ryan Center. And this
is from Fran McCaffrey's IOWA head coach was an assistant
and he told me the story, He's like, dude, the
Ryan Centers. That was the craziest place we've ever played,
he said, right before tip off, they're like, hey, money
be be.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
Like, oh, Mark, that sounds about right. That sounds right.
That's it, man, that's it. That place is great.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
What was your dad like with you growing up as
far as who.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
He was cool? Like, I think me and my brothers
always like had this love for the game, so we're
just always around it. We just wanted to be there,
Like he didn't have to ask us to come to practice.
We just wanted to be there, and I think that
was the most important thing. So like my dad, I
don't think he ever told me and my brother one time,
like you got to go to the gym, like we
were already there. So he was just like honestly, he
(03:10):
was just like dad. Like he wasn't a coach or anything.
He would just sit there and rebound and just pass
us the ball. And he wouldn't like say, hey, you
got to shoot it like this. No, he would just
sit there and rebound and just like shut up and
just like all right, if you want to get a
five hundred shots, he just sit there and rebound for you.
Like it was you really couldn't ask for anything else,
Like I'm a guy, like I'll be the first one
to say like I'm super stubborn. Like my brother tried
(03:31):
to teach me how to shoot, and he was a
perfect person to teach someone how to shoot growing up.
And I was like, no, no, I got it. I'm gonna
do it my wife, and I was shooting like Larry Bird,
like over here, and then finally it came right here.
So it was good that my dad was kind of
like that because I probably would have been like Dad,
like shut up, you know what I mean, Like just
let me play, you know what I mean? Because when
you're overbearing, it's like the game loses. It's fun, you
know what I mean. It's like you want to figure
(03:52):
it out. And that was kind of like the challenge
for myself.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
You went to high school?
Speaker 4 (03:57):
Where went to high school in Rhode Island, Perkin, And
then I did a post grade here at Worcester Academy.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Wait, wait, so your dad when you're in Rhode Island,
your dad is coaching Rhode Island. Yeah, you are right, yep,
what Like Rhode Island is a small state, but a
freaking passionate state, right, Yeah, and there's Roady in the PC, right,
and there's back before we call them haters, there were
haters out there, right. What's it like to be son
(04:23):
of a coach and and pretty well known player.
Speaker 4 (04:28):
It comes out like a lot of scrutiny for sure,
Like you feel like everything's kind of given to you.
But I think when you play for your dad, my
dad always says the best when anyone asks him. It's
like your son has to be the worst player in
the team, or he has to be the best player,
Like there's no one between you know, And if you're
the best player, you've got to be the hardest worker.
So like if there's if you're in the middle and
you're battling for playing time, then it gets a kind
(04:49):
like a little Harry, you know what I mean. But
my dad always kind of always says that, and I
think it's true, like as long as you're the best player,
you're working as hard as you can, you don't have
too much to worry about. You can filter out, you know,
the nonsense that's going on around you. But I wasn't,
like I think I'm matured a little later, so it
kind of got to me a little bit. My brother
(05:10):
was pretty much like he played for my dad too.
It was like super focused me. I kind of listened
to a little bit more to the noise. I don't
know if you know this actually started at Virginia.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
I know I want to get I wasn't get into college,
and I'm talking about more high school because high school
is interesting, right because your dad's a college coach, and
like you know, it's like high school coaches like I.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Like, do I how do I coach this kid? What's
it like? And you know, like high school.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Students like they don't know how to handle, Like college
is harder because the crowds are bigger. But yeah, I
mean you know, like Smithy's and Merps are in fucking
Rhode Island, like they'll say some shit to you, like
makes mechanics drop the wrench, right for sure?
Speaker 4 (05:50):
For sure, my brother was that you or I was
actually while I was in high school, was the best
player on your I It was like all a ten
first team and all that stuff. So like he did
set the bar. So it was kind of like you're going,
you got to go for this, like there's no other option,
and not to say there was an option I gave
myself an option, but you really felt like you had
to carry the torch and you had to take it
(06:12):
a level further, you know what I mean. So the
fact that I was, I was working so hard a
lot at that point in time in the league. Let
me tell you, the league was not crazy hard. I
mean the Rhode Island League, Like if you win by twenty,
it's a bad game, you know what I mean. So,
like the competition wasn't that great, Like when I went
to Worcester it was a completely different level, but it
(06:33):
was fun, Like I went back on it. Like the
pressure you have, like since I played ten years pro,
Like the pressure and anxiety you get from like you know,
going paycheck to paycheck, like month to month on deals
because Europe's crazy, Like looking back in high school, that
was nothing.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Like you'll love this. So I have a guy do
you ever play against Jerry Smith played Louisville.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
That's very familiar.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Okay, like a six to two blackguard. He's the best.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
He's from Milwaukee and he just joined my staff and
like we have him like as a mentor in like
a mentor role, and Jerry's the best. And like so
I had Jerry talk to the team last week and
then I said like, hey, Jerry, uh, like, when you
your biggest contract, what was it?
Speaker 3 (07:21):
You know? He's like, you know, a couple hundred grand
And I said, was it guaranteed? He's like yes. It
was like but would they cut would they cut you
in October? He's like yes, would you get your money? No?
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Right, And these guys jaws dropped, like like I don't
think you guys understand the real world, Like European basketball
is the real world where shit ain't fair and they
get rid of you. I want to get I want
to get to that. Okay, but let's let's go chrono logical.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
So you get down playing in high school a little
bit of late bloomer. Why did you go to Worcester
and not go right to college?
Speaker 4 (07:53):
My brother went to Worcester and like my brother went
from Division two coming out of the same high school.
I went to like Jim who was at the games,
and I was like, oh, you know, me being five
years younger, I'm like, oh, that makes a lot of sense.
So it took his game like a long ways.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
Now.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
When I was coming out of high school, I was
a little bit more physically developed than my brother. So
I had offers from like Seaton Hall, Rutgers, Davidson, so
I had better looks than my brother did. I think
my brother's best offer was, like I remember Assumption. It
was like the school. So I went, and I had
a really good relationship with my prep school coaches Eddie Riley,
I don't know if you know him and Jamie Sullivin,
like two great guys, like great fucking guys. And I
(08:32):
had a great year, like I think it was like
twenty eight twenty nine, the Nepstack class A being like yeah,
it was like.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Who do you guys have? Who else do you guys have?
Speaker 4 (08:42):
We didn't have much that We had Ty Olander who
wo ended up getting hurt and he was going to Yukon.
We had we had a guy who played for the Steelers,
Kanaan Severin, but we weren't really like that stat which
voted well for me because my usage was like through
the roof. But we're playing every team once it in
Brewster Saint Thomas Moore, Sure, I mean they got eight
(09:03):
to ten Division one players, so it was fun man
like that. I was just like that's when basketball truly
was just like fun, you know, like just go out
there and hoop, and I do I missed that, man.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
You know, it's funny. It's it's interesting to say this.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
So I have a I have a player's name is
Isaiah Miranda and Isaiah's actually from.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
From Island right Tucket.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Yeah seven one, yeah, steven one two fifteen amazing athletes
and you know, like he's I can.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
Just tell when he's stressed, you know.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
And I just said, hey, dude, like because you know,
like he was on people's draft boards a couple of
years ago.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
He struggled, he bounced around a little.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Bit, and I said, do you remember, like when was
the most fun you had playing basketball?
Speaker 3 (09:50):
It's like, what do you mean?
Speaker 2 (09:51):
I was like, well, like when you were a kid,
Like where would you go and just hoop and shoot
and mess around? And he's like, yeah, a park in
Pawtucker with my boys. I was like, wasn't it fun?
He's like, yeah, I was super fun. I was like,
how about we try and just emulate that, like just
going to the gym, put some music, gun, you know,
set the set, set the set the gun on whatever
seting you want, and just get shots up and just
(10:13):
have fun.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
He's like I can do that. It's like, yeah, exactly
what you need to do. It's supposed to be.
Speaker 4 (10:21):
Fun, yes, you know, like the fun. The best moments
I had was like my high school game me the Keys,
and I used to go in there like crazy hours,
like I don't know, I was in there at like
two am one time, or like you know, late late
late now, like ten or eleven PM, like and just
you just throw music on Like that was like what
I remember about my childhood is like my boys would
(10:42):
be out like partying or whatever, you know, drinking whatnot.
And I was like, oh, like I'm gonna be a
little different here, and I'm gonna go do something that
I don't think anyone else is doing. I'm gonna go
work out at eleven at night and go get shots up.
And it's like those are the moments you look back on,
you remember the most, and it's like, you know, that's
why you go Honestly, it's like you go full sort
of like that's why you go through the bullshit of
(11:04):
the European life, because like you're doing it for your
younger self. Your younger self sacrifice their childhood, so now
you don't cave in when europe those it's bullshit at you,
you know what I mean, And it's like.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
I see, okay, so wait, so here's a question. Okay,
and we'll get to like you're tiring from professional basketball.
You sacrifice your child. It's a great way to put it.
I don't know if you actually did sacrifice, because I
think you end up having a better childhood than those
dudes that went out in party.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
But still it is it is a sacrifice, right, yeah?
Was it worth it?
Speaker 2 (11:35):
You didn't make the league, So some people are like, well,
if you make, you have to make the league to
make it worth it.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
That's a that's a great point because the league was
like end all.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Everything all I want to do, like I tell you
all the time, Like I like, I just actually just
wanted a jersey with the logo with my name on
the back, Like I never got to that point. Like
I did summer league with the Lakers, I did some
mini camp with them, I did a mini camp with Minnesota.
I never and I wasn't I wasn't fucking you as
a score.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
I couldn't.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Like I actually think you fit way better now with
the NBA, the ability to stretch the defense. But again,
like I just want to do it to say I
fucking did it right.
Speaker 4 (12:16):
That's such a good point. It's such a good question.
It's a great question. Like now that wasn't worth it, Yes,
because I think I set up when I learned so
many things about like life and just like hard work
and sacrifice and going these crazy places and putting up
(12:37):
with this bullshit and you get sick skin things don't
go your way. And like I told you, I was
stubborn growing up, but like that stubborness drops when like
my coach needed me to do something else, and if
I didn't do it, if I didn't play a different
type of role, then my ass is gone. I'm not
going to make another paycheck. And it's like at the
end of the day, it's like I am the leader
(12:57):
of the household, like I am supposed to provide for
my family. So like we got to be a little
smart here. But it was definitely worth it because I
think I also financially set myself up with my family
up better than I ever thought. You know, I couldn't
any other profession. Luckily I was able to reach the
top level in Europe. But like I had a two way.
This is the thing that I'm speaking for a lot
(13:18):
of Europeans when I say it's Europeans. When I say Europeans,
I'm saying, like Americans playing over in Europe.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
It's like you know, when you go to a bar
over here down the street and you say, you know,
I play overseas, They're like, oh, yeah, I know some
guy that plays overseas. Yeah he plays over and yeah,
like he plays in Iceland. I'm just like, oh, like, hey,
do you play against him. I'm like, no, I haven't
played against him. No, I haven't. And people don't realize that,
like there's levels over there for sure, you know, like
(13:46):
there's a thousand overseas teams and there's only eighteen EuroLeague teams.
So in twenty sixteen I turned down sixteen or fifteen,
I turned on a two way from Atlanta the first
year of the two way, and I had a deal
lined up in Turkey and it wasn't like a very
sexy deal, but it was very smart, small team called
(14:09):
Eska Shier, like very small team in the First League,
and it was actually one of the better years of
my career, believe it or not. But I was smart
because my brother also played overseas as well, so I understood,
you know, the market of it and stuff like that.
But I had a chance to play for Atlanta on
a two way and they were the worst team in
the league that year, and the kid who ended up
taking the contract ended up playing thirty forty games. And
(14:30):
now he was Josh mcguett, a little lefty, so good.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
So now that's like, that's like, that's like TJ McConnell.
Like TJ McConnell got in because the Philly was the
worst team in the league.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
That was when they fucking tanked and he just played
his ass off and like now.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
He's in the league for like a decade and he's
got like confidence, Like he's kind of a dude.
Speaker 4 (14:55):
You know, that's all you know. But sorry, I rub
salt in like being able to answer that question, whether
it bothers you or not, Like answering that question at
the bar, did you play in the NBA. It's like, no,
I did it, but like, I'm sorry. There's a lot
of players who were on two way contracts that a
lot of guys in the early have made much more
money than them, and I have had much more successful
(15:15):
careers By how you judge it. Now, the casual fan
is all about did you make the NBA or did
you not make the NBA. And it's just like they
don't know anything. They don't know what the yearly is
and how competitive it is. And you know, if you
can live with that, which I can now like I'm
more mature, it's like whatever. But you know before I
definitely had a problem with that. But in the to
(15:36):
answer your question, yes, it was all worth it.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Okay, so you're you're balling it at in in prep school?
Speaker 4 (15:48):
Yeah, why Virginia. I was committed to my dad and
I had other off like good offers, and I was like, no,
I'm going to play for my dad. I'm going to
play for my dad because my brother played for my
dad and they had a really good run. But like
they were I want to say, they were the first
four out in like Lenardi's bracketology, like three years in
a row. It was insane. They just like couldn't get
(16:10):
to the tournament. So I was like, all right, I'm
going to be the savior, like I want to do this.
I want to stay close to home or want you know,
And uh, I remember one day we played a game
somewhere random and in that in that league all we
played at Winterton and for some reason, Tony Bennett was
at the game, and like there was like five people
of the game, and Tony Bennett and Richie McKay, who's
associate head coach, we're both at the game, and I
(16:30):
had no idea they were there for me. All of
a sudden, we get back to Worcester, my head coach
and my assistant coach both are like, Billy, come with me,
and they both like sat me down. They're like, hey,
Tony was there for you. He wants you for next year.
Like we've already spoken to your mom and your brother,
like he really wants you. We think you got to
do it. And I'm like whoa, Like out of nowhere,
I'm like whoa. I didn't expect that. So everyone in
(16:54):
my family besides my dad, were like you gotta go now.
You can't play for dad because Jimmy, my older brother,
my dad used still like go at it. Yeah, of
course college, And so I ended up being like, all right,
I'm going to visit. Obviously I loved this grade school.
And then I was like, all right, I guess I'll
go like kind of like that, like all right, I guess,
all right, he'll go just leave me alone type deal.
(17:16):
And I ended up going. I wasn't I was honestly
when I was there, I really didn't want to be there.
And I love Tony like I still. I literally just
texted his assistant the other day when he, you know,
text me about retirement. I said, please tell Tony I'm
sorry still, like I can't get over the fact that
I transfer, because like he didn't deserve that, Like Tony's
(17:36):
like the nicest guy in the world. Yeah. So I
ended up leaving like halfway through my freshman year just
because my dad's team struggle at that point and my
dad was on the hot seat. So I was like,
I'm not going to sit here at Virginia and watch
my dad get fired, Like that's just not going to happen.
So I made the move to go back to Rhode
Island to try and save his drift. And then what happened,
(17:57):
and then I sat out, so those you know, that
was still a time we had to sit out a
full year. Set out side freshman year, first part of
my sophomore year, we graduated everyone. My first game my
sophomore year were one and eleven and it didn't end
up well. My dad still had another year in his contract.
But but he got fired, you know, right after our
last game, which I didn't see coming. He didn't see
(18:19):
coming either, So then you know, what's that?
Speaker 1 (18:23):
What's that?
Speaker 3 (18:23):
What's that? Like?
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Like again, like it's really interesting because I've always obviously
my dad was a coach, and I didn't know.
Speaker 4 (18:33):
Did he coach you in high school? College?
Speaker 2 (18:35):
No, he coached in college and then he coached me
in AU but they got fired, Like the only time
in my life he got fired was like eighty four
or eighty three. They got fired at Loalmeach State. He
was text winners assistant. Okay, but I didn't I mean,
it wasn't like I mean, I was like eighty three.
I was seven years old, so I didn't know anything,
like just and then he went to Oregon State and
(18:57):
then he bounced around and then you know, then he
got into like travel basketball and had a real job.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
That he started with my mom and then he just
always coached AAU.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
So but the point is, like I have my brother's
been on staff, my brother's been demoted, fired, hired, whatever,
So I have obviously a sensitivity to it. But it's
totally different when your dad's head coach, your brother played
for him, you went to high school in the state.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
It's a small little state.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
You're at the state institution and you're playing for him,
and then he fired, and like, look, I mean I
didn't I wasn't there, but because I had to leave
Notre Dame because I got in trouble, Like I tell
fran McCaffrey all the time, like I'm sorry, I got
you guys fired at Notre Dame. Right, I firmly believed
if I didn't get in trouble, we would have made
(19:45):
the NCAA tournament and everybody'd stayed gamefully employed.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
What's that like? Forget about now?
Speaker 2 (19:54):
What was it like then for nineteen year old twenty
year old you to says all.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
That I was walking out of my dorm. Is we
played UMass on a Saturday afternoon, Our season was over.
We'd even make the conference tournament obviously. Oh oh it
was nasty this year.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Well, I mean listen, Notre Dame we made We played
the first Thursday games at the Big East Tournament, played Syracuse.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
They went to the national championship game that year. But
I just.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
Remember like walking around Times Square and they're like, no, no, dame,
And when do you guys play? Like, yeah, we already played,
we're done. But to not get to go, that's that
sucks even worse.
Speaker 4 (20:33):
So anyway, like, well, my dad the year before graduated
the winning this class in school history. So I thought, now,
I told you they were first four out that three
years ago. My brother's junior year, they were fifteenth in
the country. I mean, like his senior year, they were
like right, there's you know, the year after he graduated,
they were they went to the final four and you
know the n t which doesn't mean too much, but
(20:55):
no it does, it does, you know, But not to
that fan base when they only won is y tournament.
I mean Jim Herrick takes him to the NTA Tournament
to lead eight in ninety eight, they think they should
be there every single year, even though that's the reason
why my dad ended up being there because of all
the violations. So they forget. But I remember walking out
of my dorm it was like nine in the morning
(21:15):
on Sunday and I was meetinghim at church and I
get out and he's parked right by my car. What
do you what are you doing? He was, you don't
get in and he's just like looks at me. And
my dad was there for eleven years, and he's like,
I just I just got fired, and like we just
like look at each other. We just started bawling, Like
we just started bawling, and like we just hugged each
(21:37):
other and we just sat there and hugged each other
for like thirty minutes and just like crying. And it
was just like and we just sat there and I
was just like, now, what like what we what do
we do? Not you do? Like what do we do?
And I sat there. Dan Hurley ends up taking the job,
and I ended up having to go to his press
(21:58):
conference in front of everyone. I felt like it was
my dad's funeral. Like everyone was applauding Dan making a speech.
I literally felt like it was my dad's funeral. And
I'm like sitting there, like they made me sit there
like front row, and I'm like watching this. I'm like
you gotta be kidding me, Like this is this? This
is ridiculous, and right fucking in, all the news stations
(22:20):
came to interview me. Literally like once Dan's speech was over,
and I actually started like losing. I started like crying,
and then like one of the news reports, Bill Reynolds
just like pulls me out of there because he sees
me starting to lose it and he's just like he
just takes me back, and I'm like, all right. So
then Dan comes up to me after the press conference.
Let's go to the office and talk. Oh my god,
(22:43):
I don't really feel like talking right now, but all right,
let's do it. And uh, he pulls me and he
pulls me into my dad's office and we're sitting there.
I'm like, I'm like, coach, I can't. I can't talk
to right here. I can't. He goes why. I was like, coach,
I just cleaned this office out. I can't sit here
and talk to you here. We have to go. So
(23:05):
we went somewhere else, and like, over those next like
three four weeks, me and Dan had like so many
heart to hearts, Like I mean, we would talk for
like hours at a time, and he would tell me
about his situation growing up and his problems growing up
in him have an older brother and coach and all
that stuff, and like he like related to me a lot.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
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listen live.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
I gotta tell you, like the to the two guys,
I mean, that's one of the.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
Two guys that was Jesse talked to this amazing thing.
Who's there? Because Danny. I played against Danny when he
was a seat hall and he was fucking good. But
every time he brought the ball.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
To the floor, Bobby he's better, or Bobby he's better,
just like them.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
And then the other guy, the other guy was like,
that was Kevin Willard. You know about people. People were
get that Kevin.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
He actually had one more year of eligibility to play
for his dad and he instead went to work for
the Celtics. Oh really yeah, because the Pittsburgh bands were
so nasty to him, so nasty to him, you know,
like they were when they lose, they just fucking bow
him and they.
Speaker 4 (24:19):
Were so shitty to him.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
So okay, So was there like, hey, maybe I could
play for Danny or was no?
Speaker 3 (24:27):
Like what was it honestly going on inside your head?
Speaker 4 (24:31):
So I told him, like then he had one meeting
with me and the whole staff and Bobby was on
his staff, actually his assistant coach at the time. So
talking all him, I'm like, yeah, I'll give it a shot,
Like I'll see what I can do here for the
next couple of weeks, I'm going to school, might as
well just work out with them. But I like, I
like left the school completely. I was sleeping at my
house like fifteen minutes away, and that was a tough
time for me, man, Like I couldn't really sleep at night,
(24:52):
Like just a lot of stuff was going on. So
I remember, like Dan used to have like these six
am lifts in the workouts right after and I just
showed up one time. He just looked at me, like
how you doing. I'm like, coach, I haven't slept, and
that was it. And like I remember though, that was
some of the best basketball I played. We used to
do these workouts where Dan's workouts are like, you know,
(25:13):
a lot of yelling, shouting, you going, you know, balls
to the wall. Like we got in the circle one
time and one of the guys when these are all
my dad's players, so he's just weeding them out right,
and one of them they had he had his heel
on the circle in the middle and I was like,
the fuck out of here, You're not in the circle.
(25:33):
He just kicked them out of the gym, and I
was like all right, okay, and I was just like
you and everything. At that point, I was just like
kind of like cold. I was like, oh sure, why not.
And at that point I was so mad at everyone
that I resented my teammates too. I like blamed I
blame myself, but I also like took it out of them.
I took it out of my teammates right.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
Not healthy.
Speaker 4 (25:52):
And we would play like not healthy at all, like
it was bad and like we would.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Play, but you had that thing like and I'm sure
you have this in life when things are going and
shitty elsewhere, like for some reason like basketball become you
get better at basketball.
Speaker 4 (26:04):
I wouldn't sleep and I go in these workouts and
I was just like I was annihilating them, like I
was beating them like twenty one to two to three
to five, like we played one on one on one
on one. Yeah, I was talking shit and I was
like looking at Dan like I'm fucking like nuts, like
I'm crazy. Uh. He named me like captain like right away,
(26:24):
like he remember me saying lock froom. You know, whatever
Billy does, you do what he says, he follow him,
blah blah blah and all that. But I didn't hear.
I didn't realize this until ten years later. My mom was,
you know, in the background, because I was as a
playing for my dad was a walk on. And I
have a scholarship. So my mom's in the back like
calling Dan, calling the athletics director, are you going to
(26:45):
offer my son a scholarship? They were never going to
offer me a scholarship, so I didn't. I never knew that.
So at the end of the day, I called, I
called the idea that you know fired my father. I said, hey,
like tell coach, tell Dan early like I'm not, I'm
not playing and then you know, I'm not. I'm not
gonna be at r I and like that was it.
(27:07):
And then you know, that was on to the next chapter,
which was came down between Providence Purdue in Cancius of course, right.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
So you want to go to Providence because you want
to play Rhode Island, correct, Like basically you want to
beat the shit out of Rhode Island.
Speaker 5 (27:27):
Fair, Yeah, who's that province? Then ed okay, so we
have a meeting with ed and we're sitting there. I'm like,
I can't believe I'm doing this right now. You know,
it's like what my brother was sitting there with him
and and he's like yeah. And I'm like, yeah, you know,
coach like I don't know like you or I won't
let me transfer here because we're playing them. He looks
(27:49):
at me, he goes, man, I don't want to play
them anyways, don't worry about it. I was like, all right, cool, cool,
so uh and then went to Purdue and went on
to visit there, and there's like immaculate you know, Matt
Painters awesome.
Speaker 4 (28:05):
Yeah, I put it, put me to a workout, and
he like loved me because the assistant brought me in.
So I had to prove myself to coach pay Greg Guard. Yeah,
he brought me in. So then I had to work
out and I was like I couldn't missed. And then
all of a sudden, you know, Coach Painter's eyes were like, yeah,
we need you, we want you. So I went from
directly from there to Canisius to visit can I love Canesius,
(28:28):
but my dad brought me there and then he knows
I just wanted to visit the Purdue and they won't
be really badly and my dad Canacius. I'm like, like,
this is this is what you want to pick over Purdue.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
This is it.
Speaker 4 (28:46):
So honestly though, my brother came in and said, listen,
like you want to go to the NBA, you want
to all these things. He goes, if you're good enough,
they will find you. European teams will find you. He
would be your best chance to go and just go
get buckets and show you're doing. And that was the
best advice I could have got because when I when
I decided to go to Canisius, like the work ethic
(29:09):
just went through the roof because now here's the chip
on the shoulder just got even bigger, way bigger because
they just fired my father. They didn't offer me, you're right,
didn't off me a scholarship. Okay, I'm going to Canisius.
I started acc now here. I am a walk on
technically at Canesius because I'm playing for my father. And
I'm like, this isn't how I'm going to go out,
Like there is just no way this is how I'm
(29:31):
going to go out, Like I see a professional career
in my eyes, Like this is how I've worked my
whole life, like this is what I want to do,
and it was. Honestly, it was great, like I still
believe to this day. Like I don't want to jump
too far ahead, but I try to tell players. Now,
if I had stayed in Virginia and let's just say
I averaged eight to ten points a game, which would
be really good in Tony Bennett system, and we went
(29:52):
to the Final four, Let's say we would go to
Final four. I don't make as much money or I
don't have as many pre draft work out as if
I went to Canesius and averaged the twenty four that
I did.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
You're, by the way, you're making my recruiting pitch right now.
Speaker 4 (30:07):
But I try to tell you, and this is what
my brother was telling me during that time before I
committed to Canecious, and it was the best thing for
me because I got to prove myself. And then you know,
when you average twenty four, you leave college with a
bunch of confidence like let's go, like, let's keep we
got That's the part.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
That's the part that I don't think enough people understand.
It's not about the awards, the attention, whatever you have
zero chance of being a professional basketball player if you
aren't crazy confident, especially when you're like you're, you know,
six to six foot white guy, Like you got no chance, none.
(30:48):
And what happens is guys go to guys go to
a level that's too high or even the level they
can play at. But like you got to adjust your
game because you're not the best player and you're not
the go to guys, so you got to kind of
fit in and just figure out how to get on
the court.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
Which is great and it teaches.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
You about being a teammate and teaches it, but in
terms of professional basketball, like, man, that makes it really
hard because then you get to the pros and like
I tell guys, all the type okay, so remember you're
there's eight seconds lay across mid court, set of ten,
there's twenty four second shot cock, set of thirty three
point lines, deeper, lane lines wider, So all of the
(31:28):
rules make it harder. Everybody you play against is better, longer, bigger,
better smarter than you've ever played against.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
And you got to do it in a condensed amount
of time.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
You don't get like thirty four minutes to like figure
out miss your first five or six. Don't worry, I'm
gonna get five or six right, right, doesn't work out
that way. You're not accomplishing shit unless you are one.
You've had the reps of you know, the volume of reps,
and then you you have supreme self confidence. And then
kind of we go through the Hey who's your favorite player? Like, ah,
(31:59):
Damian Lillard, Oh that's funny. He went to Weaver's Day, right,
Steph Curry, he went to Danansen, he went to Lehigh.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
Yes, but how'd your ego handle? Like? Is it Virginia
Rhode Islands.
Speaker 4 (32:17):
So now when I'm asked, hey, where'd you go to college?
I gotta tell like, I went to three schools and
end up Cancius blah blah blah, all that stuff, and
it's you know, I love Canacius. They I met my
wife there. Great, I love I love it. But you know,
growing up, maybe it's not the place you you intend.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
To close your eyes and go like, I'm at Canius, Yeah,
and we're playing in the mac Championship and we're going
against Sienna right with the Patroons used to playing at
the was It Times Union Center?
Speaker 3 (32:46):
And I hit the shot. They're like that isn't anybody's dream,
Let's not.
Speaker 4 (32:52):
Yeah, I mean, I've gotten over it the way things
turned out. Like I'm extremely grateful for all things turned out,
and like I'll look at my kids, like I got
three boys. I hope they I hope they play basketball, honestly,
and I'm a look at them like when shit goes
wrong for them, I'm like, listen, like this is my story,
this is that, and they'll roll their eyes and like
it's true, Like I picked them. I could have quit basketball.
My dad got fired all of a sudden. Here I
(33:12):
am junior year on a third school, going to Canisius,
and yet my goal the whole time was to go
to the NBA. Was it be a professional. And here
I am my junior year with two years left, and
this is where I'm at. And it's like you can
either you know, pack up your bags and be like
all right, I'll just kind of like, you know, try
to average eight to ten, you know whatever, trying to
have fun, or you can go for it, you know
(33:33):
what I mean? Which one is it going to be?
Speaker 2 (33:37):
All Right, that's it for part one of our pod.
I think it's probably gonna be a three part pod
with Billy Barron. Pretty awesome stuff, reminded The Doug Gottlieb Show,
broadcast live daily on Fox Sports Radio on the iHeartRadio app.
We go from three to five eastern twelve two Pacific.
You can download that as a podcast or even download
this podcast.
Speaker 3 (33:59):
And I I have so many thanks for.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
People who they continue to make this not only this
pod possible, but but this gig is special. One I
mentioned a lot meets uh in the in I'll mention
it in the podcast.
Speaker 3 (34:16):
Scott and Kelly Perry, you guys have been awesome.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
We're starting to, you know, work some some business with
with the gun, which of course is a basketball I
guess feeding training device if you will. And then, as
many of you have noticed, our good friends at Liquid
Death have hopped on board as well. UH with the
program and UH and with me specifically, and uh, I've
(34:40):
been murdering my thirst ever since. Well listen, we got
more all balls to come. Okay, so make sure you
tell a friend download, rate, download, subscribe.
Speaker 3 (34:48):
And rate review and uh.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
In a couple of days we'll drop part two, and
a couple of days after that we'll drop part three.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
It gets better and better. Thanks so much for listening.
I'm Doug got like this is all ball app
Host
Doug Gottlieb
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Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.