January 11, 2025 • 54 mins
Doug is joined by Utah State head basketball coach Jerrod Calhoun who is in his first season in Logan. Doug and Coach discuss the beginnings of his coaching career that led to successful stops as head coach at Fairmont State and Youngstown State. Coach Calhoun shares with Doug his detailed approach to taking over the Utah State program this past year and how it is going so far.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hey, what up. Welcome in. I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is
all ball. Obviously, since the last recording of this year podcast,
a lot has happened. What hasn't happened is we haven't
won a game. And to those of you who are
coaches who are listening, you're like, man, that's got to
be really har right, And the answer is yeah, yeah,
it's hard. And the you know, the thing that I
(00:31):
take pride in is there's there's no quitting anybody in
their staff. There's no quit in our players. We have.
We have a new big guy, Yonatan Levy, who I
think we'll get him to join us in a podcast,
probably this upcoming week, who came over from Israel. He's
still kind of rounding into shape, although round is the
(00:51):
shape he fouled out in nine and a half minutes
against Northern Kentucky. I am, I am. I'm doing my
best to not say anything negative about anybody who blows
a whistle during the game, but I'm going to say
that's not why we lost. But it was disconcerting that, man,
(01:11):
we really didn't feel like that was a game in
which we had we were at a competitive disadvantage on
some level in that aspect of it. But here's the
part that you got to take ownership of and I
actually like is that we're getting better. We're getting better.
And I know this is not horseshoes and hand grenades.
(01:33):
I know that people look at final scores, and there
were some final scores early in the season which looked
closer than they actually were. This last one looked worse
than it actually was. We were up ten and it
was this six or eight point game and you know,
kid actually from Wisconsin D two transfers are really good player,
hit three threes late. Kind of that was that. But
(01:54):
we're starting to figure out how to play better defensively.
We're playing a little bit different often, and I'm improving
as a coach in leaps and mountains, my use of timeouts,
my substitutions, all those other things. And look, I know
that that. You know, somebody with it has to be
(02:16):
like a black heart, or maybe they thought it was
just funny to do. They clipped the nobody you thing
and made it out like I was saying that about
one of our opponents, which was the opposite of what
I said. I knew our schedule was too difficult, right,
like we needed in my first year to have at
least two games where we're playing traffic cones, you know,
(02:37):
just anything. And look at the schedules of other teams
in our league and everybody plays them, and we did not.
It was a mistake, and you know our scheduling. But
the point is that between scheduling, who we take player wise,
assignments of roles on coaching staffs, my approach in the summer,
my approach in the fall, my approach during the games,
(02:58):
manipulation of the clock, manipulation of timeouts, substitution pattern, all
these things. I really am learning a ton and I
felt super comfortable early on. I've never felt uncomfortable, but
I also knew that I had a lot to learn.
And you know, maybe the thing I've learned the most
(03:18):
is not just my staff's good. You can lean on
them and they're helpful, but you do need an old head.
You need somebody who's seen every war and seen everything.
And you know, I've brought in several people to help
out during the year, but not fully on staff, and
that part is hard and is a miss and something
(03:40):
that I'll have to try to adjust to going forward.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Doug Gottlieb
Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific on Fox
Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
It's good to be back on All Ball, and I
think you will love our guest because he went through
his own early struggles as a head coach. His name
is Jared Calhoun. He's the head coach at Utah State,
the fifteen one of the year, having an unbelievable season,
including beating Sandy Use State at San New State, which
never happens. Let's get to his journey and how he
(04:16):
went from being a player at Cleveland State to now
being the hottest head coach at Utah State. Here's my
conversation with Jared Calhoun before we get to your current
job or even the Youngstown job. How'd you get to
Cleveland State to play?
Speaker 3 (04:35):
Yeah, you know, Doug, good question. I was a decent
high school player in the Cleveland area Villa Angelas Saint Jose,
home of Clark Kellogg and numerous NBA guys and NFL guys,
played for a legendary coach in Ted Quasniak. I wanted
to get into coaching, Doug. I was really at about
(04:55):
the age of thirteen, I kind of knew I wanted
to coach college, and we had a legendary coach in
town by the name of Raleigh Massimino. Sure, you know,
I wanted to play for him, and I wanted to
learn from him. And you know, a lot of the
things we do away from the court, game planning, all
that stuff is from coach mas Aminos. So that that's
how I ended up in the conference that you're coaching
(05:17):
in right now.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
So yeah, well it was so wait, thirteen, where were
you when you're thirteen? And why did you say? Because
I have my own story and we were telling it
today on radio, give me your thirteen year old story,
and why you decided, Hey, this is what I want
to do.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Yeah, you know, Doug, So, I grew up with a
guy named Maverick Carter. He and I became best friends.
He's now running Lebron's Empire. Actually talked to him last night, man,
just praying that the people in California are okay. He
woke up this morning not known if he had a
house that was standing up crazy. So we used to
go to the parks all the time and play, and
(05:52):
you know, just every weekend we were at the parks,
and that's kind of how we grew up playing basketball.
And I just kind and knew that, you know, I
was gonna stay around basketball, and I knew I was
smart enough to realize I wasn't playing overseas for the NBA,
and I just wanted to learn. So that's really kind
of why I went there. What was your experience, Like,
(06:15):
I loved it, very very difficult. I'll say this, Doug.
You know I told you off air man, Uh, it
was rough as a player at Cleveland State. We didn't
win a ton.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
You learn a lot when you're struggling, So you know,
all the haters that are that are hating on you, you're
gonna be just fine. I'm telling you. My first year
at Youngstown and my playing days at Cleveland Day were rough.
But you come out, you know, much better from some
of the struggle. And I think, you know, that's kind
of how you build your culture.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
I agree, I think, and you know, we'll get into
kind of some of these things I'm learning, but I
you know, I think the hardest thing is a player.
I only went through one tough season as a player
my first year at Notre Dame and we were nine
and seventeen, and I had never been a part of
a losing program. And you know, part of it is,
(07:08):
I'm sure you this way you played for I played
for legendary high school coach as well. You you don't
even think of the possibility of losing. Like I don't
remember a game even at Notre Dame that I didn't
go in thinking we're go win, you know. And this
was this is ninety five ninety six. So the Big
(07:29):
East had Yukon had ray Allen. They were number one
through three in the country. Nova had carried Kittle's they
were two in the country. We played them, you know,
everybody had a dude. Syracuse was the fourth best team
and they went to the championship. No, they had John Wallace.
This was the year that went to the championship game
(07:49):
against priduce Kentucky, and we had him. We're we have
them down fifteen at their place on senior night, their
senior night, but they just kind of turned it on
and beat us down six with the minute to go,
beat it and they beat us in the biggest tournament up.
By my point was what was what do you remember
about the locker room? You're a player, team's not doing well.
(08:10):
What do you remember about that Cleveland State locker room.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
Yeah, you know, one thing that that really stood stood
out was, you know, there was a divide, right there
was some guys that were ready to quit. There were
some guys ready to still fight. We had a good
leader though, Coach mass got us to the finish line.
We had good assistant coaches that stayed positive. So I
was always under the impression that we could turn it
(08:35):
at any time. Unfortunately, the last year it did not
work out, and coach Massamino got fired. But you know,
just kind of a disjointed locker room, you know. And
so I've seen it as a player, and I saw
it my first two years of coaching, and you know,
it can be tough, There's no doubt about it.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
And that's the craziest thing. I mean, you think about it.
Here's a guy who authors arguably or maybe inarguably, the
greatest upset in the history of national championship. So obviously
knows what he's doing.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
Yes, cle Thick fires him.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
It's like, you'd love to say it's his fault, but
I don't know, but it's his vault, right. It really
is the craziest profession and I heard I heard Eli
Manning say some one which resonated with me. He had
a year where he threw he led the league interceptions.
And I was working for CBS at the time, and
(09:27):
I was working in New York, and I remember listening
to the interview with Francess and he said, like, you
do know him a better quarterback now than when I
won a Super Bowl, Like I know more, I see more,
just you know, we just had a bad year. And
he didn't throw his teammates under the bus and say
what I thought I knew, which is like, look, when
you don't have as good a team, you gotta take
some more chances. That's when more turnovers take place. But
(09:49):
it is really interesting, like in coaching a guy who
everybody thinks knows what he's doing. Obviously great Gregaria's personality,
and yet UNLV State ends up getting let go after
after all that greatness at Villanova. And so it's not
like you can't coach it. Obviously was a lot of things,
(10:12):
and players are probably the biggest part.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
Of it, right, Yeah, I think you know, the players
are the lifeblood of the program. You know, I've been
head coach for thirteen years and We've only had two
losing seasons of those thirteen, so been very fortunate, Doug.
They have a lot of good players. You know, been
at two places that historically have never really won a
lot of college basketball games, so been part of two
(10:37):
you know, kind of had to change the culture and
do those sorts of things. But yeah, I mean, I
think the players are so important nowadays, and you know
that's why we develop a leadership team and certain things
on our team because you know, it's a long season.
As you know, it can really wear on you throughout
throughout a season.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Okay, so you get done and you decide to go
and what be a grand assistant Cincinnati.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
Yeah, I was kind of a student assistant. I was
coaching AAU basketball and coach Huggins was recruiting two of
my players. Both kids ended up going to Ohio State,
so I said, all I'm out.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Uh they went, Which got which players?
Speaker 3 (11:16):
It was Jamar Butler and Matt Turwilliger. I coached these
kids in AU. I was the head coach. I had
a good little run with this team, and you know
it wasn't really a package deal, but I was going
to go there to finish up because my college coach
just got fired, and so I went to work with
Hugs for one year at Cincinnati as a student assistant,
and a guy on his staff, Dan Peters, got well, yeah, Dan, uh,
(11:41):
you know, got me my start at Walsh University after
one year with coach Huggins, and it changed the trajectory
of my life. It was the greatest coaching experience at Walsh.
We won a national championship and I was an assistant
there and just thrown into the fire.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
What was it like? What? What's you know? Your right
out of college? Right and you're at Walsh. How big
a school is Walsh?
Speaker 3 (12:05):
So we had about fifteen hundred students we were at
an AI. We ended up getting Robert Whaley transferred from
the University of Cincinnati, one of the last non Division
two guys to get drafted. It was my job to
make sure Robert did what he was supposed to do,
and he did and we started to season Doug That year,
I believe we were seven and five and we never
(12:27):
lost the game. We won the Division two ANAI national championship.
And I was the same age as the players. I
was twenty three. My high school point guard transferred in
from Akron that used to play with me, and we
took two Lebron James's buddies, Brandon Weams and now the
assistant general manager of the Cavs, and a kid named
Corey Jones, and off we went to win a national championship.
(12:50):
Was crazy.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
And then you circle back to work with Hugs later
at West Virginia, Right, yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
Then I go back Doug to West Virginia as the
ops guy four years as director of basketball operations. Back then,
you could not be on the court, right, So you're
doing a lot of administrative work, You're doing tickets, you know,
just doing a lot of different things. And then the
fifth year, he moved me up. And then I thought
I'd probably never leave unless it was a Division one opportunity.
(13:18):
But I took a real, real chance, and I took
a Division two job twenty five minutes down the road.
And you know, we had five unbelievable seasons at Fairmont State,
and I had a great staff, and you know, I
had Joe mazzoul on staff and various guys that are
now doing really well, and it was just an unbelievable run.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Okay, before we get to Fairmont, Okay, you're an opsky
My brother's first job at Standing the State with Steve
Fisher was the opsky as well, where he grew to
be in a full ton of system. What was it
like to be in Huggs ops guy? Like? What what
were his specific things that he wanted for travel for example?
Speaker 3 (13:58):
Yeah, I mean there was there was quite a bit.
We had a very very you know, strict menu. He
wanted a variety of food on the trips, so we
would have an Italian night, a barbecue knight, burger night.
I tried to keep them guessing on on the menu
the way we traveled, right.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
You know when we got to the hotel, we were
going to do certain things, you know, stretch film when
we had recruits in, you know, what what were things
going to look like, whether it was the locker room,
whether it was back then you could put the things
in the hotel rooms, you know. So I really learned,
you know, by the.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
Way, by the way, by the way, I mean, listen,
I understand, I'm not one of these guys that kills
the NCAA. But we can pay players now, we can pay.
Speaker 4 (14:44):
Them whatever we want to pay them, and yet we
cannot leave special things for them inside their hotel rooms
on a visit.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
Well, Doug, you don't know. Yeah, it's we could.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
We could literally pay them whatever we want, but we
can't leave like I wanted to. I wanted to leave
some cheeseheads, you know, and get a packer's jersey and
a name on the back of it. I thought this
would be a really cool thing to like, coach, we
can't do that.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
Yeah, it's you had a great you had a great episode.
I've listened to quite a few of your shows. You
don't realize, but I'm a big fan of yours. When
you kind of you kind of talked about all this
stuff in the NIL and the ability to you know,
it's just it's crazy times, you know. And now the
Juco rule and now the extra year. The rules have
(15:35):
changed so much, Doug. Every day I can't keep track
of it. I mean, I feel like I'm calling my
compliance guy daily to keep up. But back then there
were a lot of rules. You know, there was a
ton of rules. So it certainly has changed, and it's crazy.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Well, listen, my ops guy is Dennis Harrington, and he
finally came. I said, we actually found a really good
a really good hotel right on the water in Cincinnati.
We played Right State and I and and the food
was good, the rooms were good, rooms were big, and
it was it was a good adavoid des I know though,
(16:12):
like being the dobo is the most thankless job because
it's it's a little bit like you know that room
inside uh where you if you don't get your baggage
at an airport, there's that little room you got to
go to and you gotta, you know, tell them what
your bag looks like and fill a lot of paperwork whatever.
(16:32):
No one ever goes in that room and says, hey,
great job, I got my bag, thank you. You know,
they only come in there to complain. That's kind of
the dobo. No one ever goes like, hey, flight was
there on time, food was hot. Thanks. So if you can,
if you can, be a dobo, especially for hugs. Right
(16:52):
a little the older we get, the more particular we get.
You've obviously obviously earned your stripe. Okay, so Fairmont State,
how'd you get the job? Forget about the job? So
how'd you get the job?
Speaker 3 (17:04):
Yeah? I mean I went through the interview process. You know,
there was they said, over one hundred guys that interviewed
for this job. It had great tradition, Doug. It was
literally twenty five thirty minutes from you know, Morgantown, West Virginia.
Nice gym needed upgraded. So really just sold a vision
(17:24):
of how we were going to get it back. We're
going to get into the community. We raised a ton
of money. I had a lot of ties to a
lot of the people in the state, and I think
most of them thought I was nuts wanting the job,
but I wanted to be a head coach. I was
ready to call my own timeouts, run my own program.
I didn't care what level it was, and it was
the best gamble that I ever made. I took a
(17:47):
thirty thousand dollars pay raise. We got there the next
day after the press conference to practice, and there was
everything was set up from the night before, Doug, so
we couldn't even practice. We had to take down the
stage the podium, and I looked at my guy that
came with me, and I said, what did I just do? Right?
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Like?
Speaker 3 (18:07):
They didn't have practice for ready to go? And I
soon learned we didn't have all the help we had
at West Virginia, but it teaches you how to grind,
how to work, and then we got a great staff.
You know, we just kept getting better and better each year.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
What was what was the secret? Like, what's the secret,
sauce to your ability to build that culture so quickly?
Speaker 3 (18:29):
Yeah, I think it really is the time we spend
with the guys, Doug. You know, we do leadership meetings
every Monday, so I bring in the three captains of
my team. I've done this for a very long time,
and I first thing I say is what can I
do better? How can we be better? Who's struggling? There's
going to be two or three players on every team
(18:50):
that are really in the tank and struggling. How can
I help those guys? Are you guys happy with the food?
Are you guys happy with the massage? Therapy? You know?
What about practice? This is what our week looks like.
So I've always done it from like a collaborative effort
with the players and empowered those guys. And I have
felt that with this generation, this generation, Doug is so
(19:12):
different than how you and I came up. They want
to know the why. So I give it to him
early in the week and I think it's just been uh,
you know. Then we've transformed our offense. You know, we've
played fast, We've played free, We've played with space. You know,
I learned a lot from from you know, coach Missoula
and studying the game, and then we stole the matchup
(19:32):
zone from Northern Kentucky and you know here it's been tremendous.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Let's let's get to Let's get to Joe. Yeah, I
mean just a really kind of fascinating his own kind
of trajectory and brain. First time you met Joie Missoula
was wearing went well.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
I coached him at West Virginia. You know, he was
this this relationship coast back a long way.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
You know, I was the best man in his wedding.
He was on my staff for three years. We go
on you know, family vacations together. You know. His dad
was just dynamite. I mean he kep drive from from
Rhode Island in the middle of the night, go to
the game, sleep, go back the next day. I mean,
just an interesting guy. But Joe had a fire. You
(20:19):
know as a player, Doug, you could see it. You know,
he really just transformed his life after college. He really
devoted his life to God. He just grew grew so much,
you know, spiritually basketball wise. I saw the change after
year two, and I encouraged him. We shared an office, right,
(20:40):
so our office was like a closet at Fairmont State.
So the number of ideas that we had were just ridiculous.
I mean, both of us never stop with ideas. We're
probably not great for each other. We wanted to reinvent
the game of basketball, and we laughed because neither one
of us was very good back then. But we just
developed a great relationship and threw things off of each other.
(21:00):
And you know, I just people ask me all the
time and with interviews and stuff. When he won the title,
are you surprised? Well, obviously yes, But did I knew
he would be ready? Yes, if he ever got the opportunity,
that guy was going to be ready. He had been
planning for a long time. And uh, I think he's
(21:20):
gonna go down as one of the greats. I mean,
he inherited a great team. But you know he demands
the team. Uh you know, I've been to their practices.
The players love him and he runs great stuff.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
No, he does run great stuff. Wasn't Wasn't he a
holdover from bee Line? Though?
Speaker 3 (21:36):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Yeah, that's maybe the most amazing part, right is you know,
here's the guy who was a B line holdover. And
you know, so oftentimes now guys want to you know,
he didn't recruit me. I'm not his guy. They want
to leave like that's maybe an untold remarkable part about
the story is that he played for both he was
(21:58):
a B line guy, but then you know, he became
kind of a signature of of that that Final four team,
right in terms of his leadership with it. This really impressed,
like of the impressive things is one of the most
impressive parts.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
Yeah, I mean, Doug, we inherited quite a few good
players Dayshaun Butler, which is now on Joe's staff, well
Easton Smith Camp Thurman. You know back then, you you know,
those kids didn't transfer at the rip they do now, right, So, yeah,
he we ran the one three one zone. That's how
we beat cal Perry in the Elite eight to go
to the Final Four.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
And yeah again and for people obviously basketball people who
listen to this, they know this. But I mean you're
talking uh three lottery picks on Kentucky just a dominant
team and they could do nothing with the one three nothing. Now,
I will tell you, and I mean I know your
guys at Youngstown. I mean they'll, they'll, we're we're tinkering
(22:52):
with it. So my high school coach became a junior
college coach and won four state titles in cal Point.
And he says he was the only guy that bee
Line ever let stay with this team. That he was
there for like two weeks. So he became kind of
a savant with the one three one funneling guys, baking
(23:15):
and fanning, and so we've been it's we we broke
it out for two possessions Wright State and gave them
to Lambs.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
But you guys play them Sunday, right, Doug? Do you
play Youngstown next Sunday?
Speaker 1 (23:28):
We do? We do? We played, We played on Sunday.
We have you know, and as you know, the Horizon
League kind of weird schedule, no games this week, which
we needed. Then we played Milwaukee. Then we don't play
until Friday, Friday, Sunday, Wednesday.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
So uh so, well, yeah, your league is full of zone.
It's a people don't realize. The Horizon League is a clunky,
kind of a weird league to coach, and it makes
you really think you got the Northern Kentucky zone, you
got the Oakland zone, you got Cleveland State playing a
million defenses. You know, it's a weird league, Doug, I
(24:02):
think it is.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
It's a it's a weird league. But I'm really impressed
by the level of toughness and competitiveness for these teams.
Like they're just one team is is is tougher than
the next, you know it. So as we kind of
you know, learn from what we need to get. Obviously
we need to get older, but now older doesn't do it.
You need just really tough minded, super competitive kids, because
(24:28):
we just we just get beat up on the boards.
And just like again, I look, I look at Milwaukee
we're playing Saturday. I like their team because they're just tough,
you know, even when things aren't.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
But I've coached against bart and they're gonna play fast
and in free and you know, so you got to
probably slow them down, I'm sure.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
So so you get all the way to being the
runner up right in the at Fairmount, Yeah, what's that like?
Where you've built this thing into do you know, four years,
three straight tournaments going all the way to the championship
game and then you got an opportunity to go to
Division One. But as you point out at Youngstown, at
(25:09):
the time hadn't won. What's that like to the competitor
and you wants to finish it and wants to win
the national title as you did at the NAIA level,
and yet you always wanted to be a Division one
head coach. What was that like?
Speaker 3 (25:24):
Yeah? Great question, man. Frustrating right, Uh, you know I
lost to Ben McCollum, very very good coach at Drake,
good buddy of mine. Do you play those guys, Drake?
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Yeah? Yeah, we actually we ran a We didn't guard
two of them and we kept it. We were down
four with four to go. Man, they are so connected defensively.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
Yeah, I mean all those kids have played for him.
That's obviously a competitive advantage. But you know we we
lost to them by eight or nine points in national championship. Frustrated.
I think we had one of our worst offensive games.
You know, I don't know if he just tells me this,
but he said if we played ten out of ten,
he thought we'd beat him nine out of ten, he said,
by far the hardest national title that he won, but
(26:09):
he won four of them. But I get the nicest texts, Doug.
So I go back to my hotel room and I
get a text from Jim Tressel, who is the president
at Youngstown State, wanting to talk and talking about him
losing I believe two or three national championships at Youngstown
and would you have interest in the job. So fast
(26:31):
forward twenty four hours after the game, I'm on the
phone with Joe Missoula at my house basically asking him
if he's going to take you leave the G League
and take the job. Because we were so tight knit,
our coaches and our players that we really wanted Joe
to get the job. So I felt relieved and I
(26:52):
felt like it was the right thing to do, take
a new challenge with Joe getting the opportunity to run
Fairmount State. So it worked out really well.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Doug Gottlieb
Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific on Fox
Sports Radio in the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
So you get to you, you get the Youngstown What
was it like?
Speaker 3 (27:14):
Oh, first two years, Doug. That's why I'm rooting for you.
I love guys that have to have to figure things out.
You know, you're you're at a historical place that I
think could be good. Right, you got to get your inprint.
You gotta you know, and that's what we did. You know,
the first year we won eight games. We were not
(27:34):
very good. We were two and eleven in the non league.
What's crazy is we start on the Horizon League three
and zero and we think here we come right. And
I think we ended up winning five or six games
that year, and I learned more about running a program
during those trying times. The biggest mistake I didn't do
was work out. I got I became very, very depressed,
(27:58):
almost bottomed out. But I found new life at the
end of the year, and we came back and we
improved on eight wins. I believe we won thirteen or
fourteen the next and then we went for five straight
winning seasons. But you know, those kids went through a
lot with me, and I'll cherish that, and they've made
me the person and the coach. And it was tough, man,
(28:19):
it was really really tough losing like that.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
You know, you had won previously, so you knew what
you were doing would work. But I do think that
anybody who's reasonable you get that crisis and confidence. Is
this going to work here? Or is it gonna How'd
you overcome that?
Speaker 3 (28:39):
Yeah, we were just looking for you know, small wins.
You know, in fact, we played out here at Utah
State and we got excited about about our team diving
on the floor because we hadn't We hadn't dove on
the floor for the last three games. So we finished
two and eleven first year, and at halftime I was
going nuts because they were diving on the floor. You know,
things like that. Trying to keep a positive outlook, not
(29:03):
lose the team, and just really try to state mentally
locked in and not burn out, because I think you
see a lot of coaches, especially in our world today,
that can fizzle out. So I just tried to from
year one to year two, get the kids that really
wanted to be there, kind of fit who we are,
and developed a leadership team and just not look back.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
You know, the Horizon League championship team of two years ago.
Obviously I saw that team because close with my boy
and they played you guys in the n it at
your place. What's that like? Because we always you know,
when I'm working on TV, we always champion the team
that wins it, right, but we never talk about the
(29:48):
other side. You take the worst team in the league,
you turn them over six years into a league champion
and your reward is you have to go beat everybody
again and win the Horizon League tournament and you don't
what's that feeling like from a guy who had you know,
you've been in the National Championship game, you'd won a
(30:10):
national championship at the NA level, but to win the
league and to build, because that's really what you're trying
to build, Like then tournament's great, but you want to
win your league? What what is what are those emotions like?
Speaker 3 (30:20):
Yeah, that's that's that's a great, great point. You know,
it was frustrating. I felt like, you know, at our level,
at your level, there needs to be a little more
of a home court advantage. I always thought, you know,
back in the day, you know, the Horizon League champion,
when Brad Stevens and Gary Waters were in the league,
(30:41):
if you won the regular season, it was at the
host site. Right. I feel like at the Horizon League level,
you've got to protect a one seat a little better.
Right at the end of the day, where college sports
are headed, the power for us are going to own
uh the the NCAA tournament. It's just the reality. So
if you get a team that's older connected can go
(31:04):
win a game in the tournament. You got to protect
that seed. And you know, Indy's a great experience. Doug.
I think Julie your commissioner. Now I've been, you know,
part of the Big East, have been part of the
Mountain West. I think she's big time. I think she's
really really good. I think she could, you know, continue
to climb. I think the Horizon League does the best
(31:24):
they can, but I think it needs to go back
to the host site and protect that because there was
definitely very very deflated and now with the n i
T that being cut for load to mid majors as well.
I was very thankful that we got to host an
n i T first round game against Oklahoma State and
(31:45):
we just happened to be able to do it because
you know, Oklahoma State had something in their arena. But
it was deflating, you know it was. It still sits
in my stomach to this day that I didn't win
a Division two national championship. We're eight points away and
I wasn't able to get Youngstown to the NCAA Tournament.
But I feel like I left it in a good place.
(32:07):
I have great friends. My one of my good friends
was able to get the job again, you know, and
he you know, he was able to get a couple
of guys that are in my wedding on his staff
hired there. So it's just a neat thing when you
can leave a place and you kind of see like
other guys get their opportunity and.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
You know it.
Speaker 3 (32:28):
So, yeah, I think that that was very frustrating.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
Okay, you you get the job at you toasting. Now,
this is a place that I know really well. I've
done a ton of their games. They've had an Actually,
my the high school coach I told you about to
be given a junior college coach. He sent several players
there back when coach Morril was there. They have had
quality coach after quality coach after quality coach. There's a
(32:57):
really high bar set there, but especially with this day
and age sprinkles there a year and he's gone and
he takes he takes the best players. What's it like
to take over Utah State? Now you finally get to
essentially a high major with their success and you've been
(33:18):
winning a different part of the country and the coupver
wasn't bear but it definitely has been rated.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
Yeah, I mean the first thing we had to do,
Doug was was really do our research on the current roster.
I think so many guys come in and really spend
you know, I've done this three times and I've made
mistakes every stop. So I said, I'm not going to
make the same mistake. The biggest mistake I made at
Youngstown I spent too much time with the donors raising
money because we had no locker room, we had no this,
(33:47):
we had no that, no budgets. I wanted to spend
the first two weeks really getting to know every player
so great O Sabor, Joshua Duje, good big time players
that transferred out of here. I had countless meals with
I worked them out. I gave everything I had to
everybody in the program for the first two weeks and
tried to figure out who wanted to stay, who wanted
(34:08):
to be a part of this. And we did a
really good job of building those relationships, trying to sell
our vision of how we want to play offensively and defensively.
Did the research with Coach Morrell. He was my first call.
Talked to Coach Sprinkle, talked to Craig Smith, talked to
Ryan Odom and it was really neat Doug. I thought
(34:28):
one thing here that they nailed. They had four players
on the interview process. So when I walked into a room,
I had one hour with these kids, and I had
watched thirty one games on Utah State. It was a
job that I always wanted. I feel like you can
win a national championship here because the home court advantage,
(34:49):
the location. We have great high school basketball in Utah.
We're starting to get a lot of prep schools. There's
some really good juke goes in the area. And we
just hit the ground run and the kids were brought
in in the portal, you know from you know, the
returning guys and the new guys. It's been an incredible,
incredible story. You know, we lost great Osibor to the
(35:13):
portal and Nil and obviously his relationship with Coach Sprinkle.
We lost Joshaduje. We did lose some guys. We didn't
keep them all, but the ones we kept, I'd tell
you they really want to be here.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
I noticed behind you are all the Mountain West trophies,
right the recent mouse most trophies. And what's interesting about
that to me is it's like, I there's some Coach
Bennett stuff and I was like, I didn't earn that.
Let's not put that in my office. I didn't earn that.
How do you handle that? How do you handle you know,
(35:46):
Ryan had great success, Sprinkle had great success, Craig had
great success. Coach more obviously incredible historic success. How do
you handle just the awards and what you decided to
keep and what you said to us in your new office.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
Yeah, that's really funny. So I told our staff the
other day, Doug, I said, why are these trophies not
in the trophy case inside the spectrum? Well, the trophy
case is so old. We don't think it'll be able
to hold the trophies because these newer trophies wait so much.
And they said, Coach, every time we bring in a recruit,
we need to sell our history. One thing you feel
(36:25):
about this job, Doug every day, and Danny you know,
told me this and we talk quite a bit, is
it's a pressure cooker. Right, So you know, I think
they just think we're going to win in the spectrum
and we're just going to go to the NCAA tournament.
And you know we've been able to do it. We've
had a niche here, right, We've had great international players.
We've had great high school players. Our fan base is elite.
(36:48):
Now we're in a whole new ballgame. Right, I'm the
first coach to actually coach in the NIL world. You know,
we're we're middle tier in the NIL. Right, We're probably
six or seventh in total dollars for our roster. Right,
We've got to continue to move the needle on that.
In two years, we're going to opt into revenue sharing.
We're going to be in the same league as Gonzaga, Right,
(37:10):
So we got to keep changing and keep growing with
this job. And I think you know, it's a storied program.
It really is, and it's it's an honor to be here, man,
Like I wake up every day really really, you know,
just proud to come in. And when you have good
players Doug and good kids that buy into your offensive
(37:33):
system and defense. It's been unbelievable really, because I've had
two jobs.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
How do you identify in the portal who can play
for you?
Speaker 3 (37:44):
Yeah, So we have a kind of a metrics you know,
the point guard position. We really really value winning at
that point guard position. We really value speed. Right, So
we took Date and Allberry from Queen's. He didn't win
a ton of games, but he's really really fast. We
really study efficiencies. We talk with the kids about efficiency, right.
(38:08):
So one thing that I learned from Joe, it's not
you know, it's not the minutes, it's not the points.
We don't ever talk about that during the recruiting. We
talk about how much better can we make you and
your decision making in offense? Right, So we assist on
sixty five percent of our makes. So we do a
ton of red drills that I got from Joe, whether
that's a pick and roll, read an off ball screen,
(38:30):
read a drive, read a post read. We want our
guys to make high level decisions on the basketball court.
We want to play at a certain tempo. You know,
we have certain criteria for every position. This is the
first year that I've had a non shooting starting five,
So our backup is a shooting five. I got to
have one big guy that can stretch the d. We
(38:53):
want a lob threat. We want rim protection from the five,
and then we want three point guards on the roster.
I think so many teams are handcuffed because they only
recruit two. You got to have three, and then versatile
wings that can not only play out of pick and rolls,
but you know, read defenses, drive the ball, make threes
and interchangeable, right, the two, three and four is very
(39:15):
interchangeable for us.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
What is the one thing you do better now than
you did five years ago at Youngstown as a coach?
Speaker 3 (39:24):
Yeah, great question, more patient, better plan? You know, I
would say, communicate better with our guys. Don't overreact. You know,
I think you know you're there's a time you have
to show emotion. There's a time you have to get
on guys. I coached very angry two games ago, and
(39:45):
I didn't like it. After the game, I couldn't sleep,
but the kids, I couldn't get him to move. We
were playing Fresno State coach Wahlberg had his team more
ready than mine. So I became very angry, very angry
during the game at halftime. That's not me, That's not
who I am. So I got to be kind of
consistent how we're going to run the daily operation. I
(40:07):
rely on my assistance a lot more. Doug, I would say,
you know, you're you're going to learn that.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
You know.
Speaker 3 (40:14):
Empowering others is I think one of the greatest gifts
we can do as head coaches have them take ownership
of things, whether it's you know, skill work development, you know,
empowering your ops guy, making sure our players think our managers,
you know, our student managers. Two of my best friends
were managers. I started off as a manager at Cleveland
State and worked my way as a walk on. So
(40:36):
you know, you have to acknowledge everybody in the program
a lot and give thanks to those people. And I
think that rubs off on your team, and then everybody,
you know, really enjoys being around each other.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
You mentioned that the Horizon is a lot of zone,
kind of a Mucket up league. He in out West.
You got a little bit of everything there. I was you, Sandy,
the State has built theirs with defense and rebounding, scoring
in it. Just in that points to win. Coach Wahlberg,
you mentioned at Fresno, right, he's the dribble, he's the
you know, dribble, drive motion, shoot a ton of threes,
(41:12):
a little bit of a quirky style. What have you
noticed that's different about Mountain West basketball from Horizon League
basketball or Big East basketball?
Speaker 3 (41:25):
Yeah, we did a study, you know, in the offseason
on every team, uh kind of you know, how they
guarded pick and rolls, how they guarded off ball screening,
you know, a lot of different things. The thing that
I've noticed in the Mount West offensively with teams very deliberate,
a lot of pick and roll, slower paced league outside
of New Mexico, UH coaches want to you know, kind
(41:47):
of call a lot of sets. They want to get
the ball to their best players. Defensively at just a
huge emphasis on gap defense over helping. You have to
make below the free throw line reads. You have to
have the bill to make decisions at the rim, late kickouts,
a physical presence, Doug. The biggest difference between your league,
(42:09):
which I think is really really good. Lot of good
like upcoming coaches, those middle age type of coaches that
have their niche, and then you throw a great campy
in there that is going to throw a million sets
at you and play this the weirdest son I've ever seen.
I still can't figure it out. And he spoke at
my clinic when we were in the league together and
(42:30):
he's one of my best friends of this day. Just
a lot of things, you know, like so you gotta
I think you got to do this as a head coach.
You've got to have a system. You can't be a
control freak. I think you've got to be great in ATOS.
We have really done a good job in ATOS. If
you look at our efficiency, our baseline out of bounds,
I think we're in one of the best teams in
(42:51):
the country at executing and we do a tremendous job
in our off ball screening actions. I think everybody lives
in picking rolls. We've done more off ball screens this
year than I've ever done, and I got a lot
of that from Joe with the Tatum and Brown, those
wide pinned downs, those screen of ways. You know, there's
a lot of things you can do and be creative
(43:13):
with some of those off ball screens, but physical and
just a really good league.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
Has it setting yet? You know that that how easy
this transition, at least perception wise, has been. Has it?
Has it? I mean you're thirteen and one.
Speaker 3 (43:32):
You know, yeah, when you're winning, it's it's really easy.
Speaker 1 (43:38):
Right.
Speaker 3 (43:39):
I think everybody thinks that Tim Miles can coach vance
can I mean every is.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
A perfect example, right, Tim Elevant coach in the same
league obviously different resources now, right, but dominated the league
when he's at Calorio State, and now it's really hard
in San Jose. So but I mean my point is, like,
you know, there's apprehension with anything, and obviously you know
all the benefits to Utah State, but my goodness, the
(44:04):
start has to has to feel really good as it
as it set in. When you look around, you're like,
this is this works here, it'll work anywhere.
Speaker 3 (44:13):
Yeah, you know what it does, Doug. It just kind
of reaffirms to your players that hey, what we're doing,
you know, can can work in the game. And we've
been elite in the last three to four minutes of
every game we've won. You know, really what gave us confidence.
We went into Saint Mary's and won on the road,
right then the San Diego State, which hadn't been done
here in eighteen years, went on the road. Then we
(44:35):
go on the road, you know, to Nevada and placed
you know, Coach Alford, which has been awesome to me.
We have the same age and he's kind of you
know him and Coach Dutcher been really good to me.
Those guys are awesome guys. Have admired them from Afar.
You know, we're all fans of each other, and you know,
me being a you know, a younger coach, and I've
always watched the Mountain West. Those guys been great, So
(44:57):
it just kind of shows you, you know, we've we've
adjusted it to the game of basketball. Our players are
efficient players. And when you put we over me, and
everybody has all the different slogans and all the different signs,
and ours is real simple, we over me. The third
bulletin of every game is put the team over yourself, right,
(45:19):
and that can go a million ways. Right, make the
extra assists, make a screen assist, make a one more assist,
you know, defensively, communicate the coverage right, stop the ball
that's putting the team over yourself. And you know, these
kids have really embodied that and we were able to
do that at Fairmounty and Youngstown. And you know, if
we're lucky enough, fortunate enough to get in the NCAA tournament,
(45:41):
I think will be a really hard out because the
way we play, we're really good on both sides. Those
are the good mid major teams that make a run
at it. Doug, I think you've been doing it so long,
from your playing days to your you know, your coverage
of the tournament and your your show and now obviously coaching,
you've seen it. You got I have connectivity on both sides.
(46:01):
Because you could have a bad shooting night. We've been
able to overcome that. You could have a grand offensive
night and not guard, which we had the other night
at San Jose. You got to win in a variety
of ways, and I think those are the best teams.
Speaker 1 (46:14):
What would it mean to you to make that NZA tournament.
Speaker 3 (46:17):
It'd be incredible. You know. I've been wanting to get
back there for some time, you know, but not only
make it, Doug. You know, I think I truly believe this.
At Utah State you can win a national championship. You know.
I've talked to Dusty May, He's a good friend of mine.
Almost did it at Florida Atlantic coach Dutcher, at San
Diego State coach Larnaga, at George Mason Brad at obviously
(46:40):
Butler twice. There's been a whole slew of teams that
not only made it at our level, but also almost
won a national championship. And I think moving forward we
can do that.
Speaker 1 (46:51):
Yeah, there's a lot of people that you know, some
of the older guard getting out because for a myriad
of reasons, but one reason they don't like the road
we're on. You know, the portal is a lot. You
go to transfer out right away, makes it really hard.
You mentioned you're a locker room wh you're at Cleveland State.
(47:14):
You know guys that quit, guys that were staying. Now
you have Hey are guys wearing about next year where
they're going to play next year when you're in the
middle of your year. What about you? What are your
thoughts on on where college basketball is, where we're headed,
and what you would like to see evolve out of
this path?
Speaker 3 (47:34):
Yeah, Doug, So the show that I loved you did
the show in Lara Andega, I believe a couple of
weeks ago. I listened to that when we were on
the road, and you know, I agree with a lot
of the things that you have said about it. It's
not going anywhere, it's not changing, but just a couple things. Right. So,
we're fifteen and one. We're top twenty five in the country.
(47:54):
I think we're the only mid major team in the
country right now to be ranked. San Diego State's been there,
Drake's been there, whoever, But right now, as of today,
then it'll change, right I ask my guys. Today there's
fourteen guys on my roster. Eight of them have been
contacted by NIL agents. Eight of the fourteen. Various schools
(48:14):
have tried to try to get involved, right one being
not too far from here. It's totally out of control.
It's off the rails. Anybody that thinks it's not they're crazy, right,
So it's not going anywhere. How can we change it?
You know? Hopefully the revenue sharing is going to be
really good. We're not going to that till twenty five,
(48:35):
twenty six. You know, I really really worry about the
Horizon League and schools like yourself, that coaches like yourself
that are doing it the right way, developing players, you know,
out raising money, you know, really taking care of your players,
and you guys just being a feeder system. You know,
I worry about that with us, with my current roster.
(48:56):
It's on my mind every day. Can we keep this
team together, you know, because I think if we can,
it can be special. But I think, you know, with
the ni L, we have to have multi year contracts.
If a kid leaves, it has to be a buyout,
and there needs to be a whole restructure of the
landscape there.
Speaker 1 (49:15):
I think, I think, I think the multi year deal
is a big thing, I think. I honestly, the hard
part is and look, you know, do you contacted, kid?
Do you not contact I haven't contacted anybody. My guys
are told do not contact they kid, we have players
that have been contacted despite the fact that we're two
(49:37):
and fifteen or the opposite of the inverse of it.
But I think that's the hard part is everyone tells you, hey,
once they hit the portal, it's too late, right, But like, okay,
but I thought we're not supposed to talk to him
before they hit the portal. Like, I don't even know
how that works. And obviously you have the nil agents,
(49:58):
you have the parents, you have the au coaches, and
then you have the rumors of or this guy's leaving,
Like where did you hear that from? You know, I
think that the contacting of players on your roster. I
think that's the part that and the multi year deals. Uh,
you know, they got got to have the multi year deals,
and then the contacting of players your roster just has
(50:19):
to has to be eliminated. I don't know how.
Speaker 3 (50:20):
You know, Yeah, Doug, I'll lose my lose my mind,
and I'm sure you would too. I think that's just
totally unethical. You can't do it. Uh, they back channel,
they're going through the AAU coaches that sort of thing.
You know, we have two really good players that are
trying to be poached now, and I just take it
ahead on. I asked the guys, I explained to them
what the NIL agent can do for him. I do
(50:42):
think some guys it's good for But a lot of
guys can negotiate these deals themselves, right, So I see
both sides to it. But certainly, uh, the older coach
uh is is definitely there's a frustration level around the country.
You're seeing Hall of famers get out. But like guys
like yourself and I, we got to figure this out, right.
(51:04):
We gotta be a voice. Certainly with your platform you
can have a bigger voice. But I do think there'll
there'll be some changes here in the next couple of years.
With it.
Speaker 1 (51:15):
Last thing moving from your West Virginia and Ohio for
such a period of time. What's in Utah been like
for you?
Speaker 3 (51:23):
You know, Doug, It's beautiful. I wake up every day
we face mountains, the Wellsville Mountains. It's the most peaceful,
one of the safest safest environments. College Town. Just it
looks like a postcard, right, It literally looks like a
post guard of the mountains. Every day it's been different.
(51:45):
I have grown a lot bit, you know, I always
dreamed of coaching on the West coast, you know, in
the Mountain West. Never in a million years what I
think I'm in Logan, Utah coaching the Utah State Aggie.
So sometimes times, you know, it is so real and
I think it's.
Speaker 1 (52:02):
So much better where you are. And look, I'm a
Southern California got but the care factor is so minimal
in comparison to where you are. Your league cares right
New Mexico they care, you know, sunny at Wyoming as
they start winning, they care. You know, when I did
the Mountain West Tournament, there was a year there where
(52:24):
when coach Hi had a going at Wyoming where between Wyoming,
New Mexico Utah State, you know Utah back then was
in it in San Diego State. And then you know,
if you U and OLV is good, that place is
just alive. I actually, I think the Mountain West is
the best because people legitimately care and show up. Obviously
(52:48):
Utah State being you know at the top end of it,
along with New Mexico, but you kind of end up
nailing it, whereas the West coast, you get too far west.
There's too many things to do and basketball is just
kind of far down the list. And that's really why
I left as a player. Was my sister was a
UCLA cheater leader. My brother went there. We were season tickelovers.
But I can't tell you how many games I went to,
(53:09):
like nobody cared. Yeah, you know, and USC famously nobody cared.
And everywhere I went on a visit, they cared. So
I think there is a but Utah is a special
place and they love basketball.
Speaker 3 (53:22):
They absolutely love ball here. You know, it's.
Speaker 1 (53:24):
Neat never a Mormon church that doesn't have a hoop.
Speaker 3 (53:28):
Everyone, every single every single street we got a hoop.
Speaker 1 (53:31):
You're right, hey, listen, I I really appreciate. I know
how how valuable time is in the season. Uh, it's
great to catch up with you. Let's do so in
person at some point in time. But you guys are
killing it, and thanks for joining me.
Speaker 3 (53:45):
Coach, I'm rooting for you. Just don't don't beat my penguins.
On Sunday, I'm going to tune into that get my number.
I appreciate you, man, it's a big honor for me.
Speaker 1 (53:54):
Well, what a great conversation with coach Calhoun. And obviously
you can hear like he has thought of everything in
terms of who, what and where and why they're recruiting,
and you know, I mean like, look, there's a guy
who's put together a plan and executed that plan at
now three different locations. And as a as a young coach,
I learned a lot in that conversation. I think you
(54:16):
probably learned a lot and listening to it as well.
Thanks so much for listening and reminded. The Doug Gottlieb
Show airs daily three to five Eastern twelve to two
Pacific on Fox Sports Radio iHeartRadio app. You can also
download that podcast. We have a daily pod and the
radio show is pod pod version as well. Just type
in Doug we ever get pods in the meantime. Thanks
for listening. We'll be back soon. This is all ball
Hey, what up. Welcome in. I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is
all ball. Obviously, since the last recording of this year podcast,
a lot has happened. What hasn't happened is we haven't
won a game. And to those of you who are
coaches who are listening, you're like, man, that's got to
be really har right, And the answer is yeah, yeah,
it's hard. And the you know, the thing that I
(00:31):
take pride in is there's there's no quitting anybody in
their staff. There's no quit in our players. We have.
We have a new big guy, Yonatan Levy, who I
think we'll get him to join us in a podcast,
probably this upcoming week, who came over from Israel. He's
still kind of rounding into shape, although round is the
(00:51):
shape he fouled out in nine and a half minutes
against Northern Kentucky. I am, I am. I'm doing my
best to not say anything negative about anybody who blows
a whistle during the game, but I'm going to say
that's not why we lost. But it was disconcerting that, man,
(01:11):
we really didn't feel like that was a game in
which we had we were at a competitive disadvantage on
some level in that aspect of it. But here's the
part that you got to take ownership of and I
actually like is that we're getting better. We're getting better.
And I know this is not horseshoes and hand grenades.
(01:33):
I know that people look at final scores, and there
were some final scores early in the season which looked
closer than they actually were. This last one looked worse
than it actually was. We were up ten and it
was this six or eight point game and you know,
kid actually from Wisconsin D two transfers are really good player,
hit three threes late. Kind of that was that. But
(01:54):
we're starting to figure out how to play better defensively.
We're playing a little bit different often, and I'm improving
as a coach in leaps and mountains, my use of timeouts,
my substitutions, all those other things. And look, I know
that that. You know, somebody with it has to be
(02:16):
like a black heart, or maybe they thought it was
just funny to do. They clipped the nobody you thing
and made it out like I was saying that about
one of our opponents, which was the opposite of what
I said. I knew our schedule was too difficult, right,
like we needed in my first year to have at
least two games where we're playing traffic cones, you know,
(02:37):
just anything. And look at the schedules of other teams
in our league and everybody plays them, and we did not.
It was a mistake, and you know our scheduling. But
the point is that between scheduling, who we take player wise,
assignments of roles on coaching staffs, my approach in the summer,
my approach in the fall, my approach during the games,
(02:58):
manipulation of the clock, manipulation of timeouts, substitution pattern, all
these things. I really am learning a ton and I
felt super comfortable early on. I've never felt uncomfortable, but
I also knew that I had a lot to learn.
And you know, maybe the thing I've learned the most
(03:18):
is not just my staff's good. You can lean on
them and they're helpful, but you do need an old head.
You need somebody who's seen every war and seen everything.
And you know, I've brought in several people to help
out during the year, but not fully on staff, and
that part is hard and is a miss and something
(03:40):
that I'll have to try to adjust to going forward.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Doug Gottlieb
Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific on Fox
Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
It's good to be back on All Ball, and I
think you will love our guest because he went through
his own early struggles as a head coach. His name
is Jared Calhoun. He's the head coach at Utah State,
the fifteen one of the year, having an unbelievable season,
including beating Sandy Use State at San New State, which
never happens. Let's get to his journey and how he
(04:16):
went from being a player at Cleveland State to now
being the hottest head coach at Utah State. Here's my
conversation with Jared Calhoun before we get to your current
job or even the Youngstown job. How'd you get to
Cleveland State to play?
Speaker 3 (04:35):
Yeah, you know, Doug, good question. I was a decent
high school player in the Cleveland area Villa Angelas Saint Jose,
home of Clark Kellogg and numerous NBA guys and NFL guys,
played for a legendary coach in Ted Quasniak. I wanted
to get into coaching, Doug. I was really at about
(04:55):
the age of thirteen, I kind of knew I wanted
to coach college, and we had a legendary coach in
town by the name of Raleigh Massimino. Sure, you know,
I wanted to play for him, and I wanted to
learn from him. And you know, a lot of the
things we do away from the court, game planning, all
that stuff is from coach mas Aminos. So that that's
how I ended up in the conference that you're coaching
(05:17):
in right now.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
So yeah, well it was so wait, thirteen, where were
you when you're thirteen? And why did you say? Because
I have my own story and we were telling it
today on radio, give me your thirteen year old story,
and why you decided, Hey, this is what I want
to do.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Yeah, you know, Doug, So, I grew up with a
guy named Maverick Carter. He and I became best friends.
He's now running Lebron's Empire. Actually talked to him last night, man,
just praying that the people in California are okay. He
woke up this morning not known if he had a
house that was standing up crazy. So we used to
go to the parks all the time and play, and
(05:52):
you know, just every weekend we were at the parks,
and that's kind of how we grew up playing basketball.
And I just kind and knew that, you know, I
was gonna stay around basketball, and I knew I was
smart enough to realize I wasn't playing overseas for the NBA,
and I just wanted to learn. So that's really kind
of why I went there. What was your experience, Like,
(06:15):
I loved it, very very difficult. I'll say this, Doug.
You know I told you off air man, Uh, it
was rough as a player at Cleveland State. We didn't
win a ton.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
You learn a lot when you're struggling, So you know,
all the haters that are that are hating on you, you're
gonna be just fine. I'm telling you. My first year
at Youngstown and my playing days at Cleveland Day were rough.
But you come out, you know, much better from some
of the struggle. And I think, you know, that's kind
of how you build your culture.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
I agree, I think, and you know, we'll get into
kind of some of these things I'm learning, but I
you know, I think the hardest thing is a player.
I only went through one tough season as a player
my first year at Notre Dame and we were nine
and seventeen, and I had never been a part of
a losing program. And you know, part of it is,
(07:08):
I'm sure you this way you played for I played
for legendary high school coach as well. You you don't
even think of the possibility of losing. Like I don't
remember a game even at Notre Dame that I didn't
go in thinking we're go win, you know. And this
was this is ninety five ninety six. So the Big
(07:29):
East had Yukon had ray Allen. They were number one
through three in the country. Nova had carried Kittle's they
were two in the country. We played them, you know,
everybody had a dude. Syracuse was the fourth best team
and they went to the championship. No, they had John Wallace.
This was the year that went to the championship game
(07:49):
against priduce Kentucky, and we had him. We're we have
them down fifteen at their place on senior night, their
senior night, but they just kind of turned it on
and beat us down six with the minute to go,
beat it and they beat us in the biggest tournament up.
By my point was what was what do you remember
about the locker room? You're a player, team's not doing well.
(08:10):
What do you remember about that Cleveland State locker room.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
Yeah, you know, one thing that that really stood stood
out was, you know, there was a divide, right there
was some guys that were ready to quit. There were
some guys ready to still fight. We had a good
leader though, Coach mass got us to the finish line.
We had good assistant coaches that stayed positive. So I
was always under the impression that we could turn it
(08:35):
at any time. Unfortunately, the last year it did not
work out, and coach Massamino got fired. But you know,
just kind of a disjointed locker room, you know. And
so I've seen it as a player, and I saw
it my first two years of coaching, and you know,
it can be tough, There's no doubt about it.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
And that's the craziest thing. I mean, you think about it.
Here's a guy who authors arguably or maybe inarguably, the
greatest upset in the history of national championship. So obviously
knows what he's doing.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
Yes, cle Thick fires him.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
It's like, you'd love to say it's his fault, but
I don't know, but it's his vault, right. It really
is the craziest profession and I heard I heard Eli
Manning say some one which resonated with me. He had
a year where he threw he led the league interceptions.
And I was working for CBS at the time, and
(09:27):
I was working in New York, and I remember listening
to the interview with Francess and he said, like, you
do know him a better quarterback now than when I
won a Super Bowl, Like I know more, I see more,
just you know, we just had a bad year. And
he didn't throw his teammates under the bus and say
what I thought I knew, which is like, look, when
you don't have as good a team, you gotta take
some more chances. That's when more turnovers take place. But
(09:49):
it is really interesting, like in coaching a guy who
everybody thinks knows what he's doing. Obviously great Gregaria's personality,
and yet UNLV State ends up getting let go after
after all that greatness at Villanova. And so it's not
like you can't coach it. Obviously was a lot of things,
(10:12):
and players are probably the biggest part.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
Of it, right, Yeah, I think you know, the players
are the lifeblood of the program. You know, I've been
head coach for thirteen years and We've only had two
losing seasons of those thirteen, so been very fortunate, Doug.
They have a lot of good players. You know, been
at two places that historically have never really won a
lot of college basketball games, so been part of two
(10:37):
you know, kind of had to change the culture and
do those sorts of things. But yeah, I mean, I
think the players are so important nowadays, and you know
that's why we develop a leadership team and certain things
on our team because you know, it's a long season.
As you know, it can really wear on you throughout
throughout a season.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Okay, so you get done and you decide to go
and what be a grand assistant Cincinnati.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
Yeah, I was kind of a student assistant. I was
coaching AAU basketball and coach Huggins was recruiting two of
my players. Both kids ended up going to Ohio State,
so I said, all I'm out.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Uh they went, Which got which players?
Speaker 3 (11:16):
It was Jamar Butler and Matt Turwilliger. I coached these
kids in AU. I was the head coach. I had
a good little run with this team, and you know
it wasn't really a package deal, but I was going
to go there to finish up because my college coach
just got fired, and so I went to work with
Hugs for one year at Cincinnati as a student assistant,
and a guy on his staff, Dan Peters, got well, yeah, Dan, uh,
(11:41):
you know, got me my start at Walsh University after
one year with coach Huggins, and it changed the trajectory
of my life. It was the greatest coaching experience at Walsh.
We won a national championship and I was an assistant
there and just thrown into the fire.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
What was it like? What? What's you know? Your right
out of college? Right and you're at Walsh. How big
a school is Walsh?
Speaker 3 (12:05):
So we had about fifteen hundred students we were at
an AI. We ended up getting Robert Whaley transferred from
the University of Cincinnati, one of the last non Division
two guys to get drafted. It was my job to
make sure Robert did what he was supposed to do,
and he did and we started to season Doug That year,
I believe we were seven and five and we never
(12:27):
lost the game. We won the Division two ANAI national championship.
And I was the same age as the players. I
was twenty three. My high school point guard transferred in
from Akron that used to play with me, and we
took two Lebron James's buddies, Brandon Weams and now the
assistant general manager of the Cavs, and a kid named
Corey Jones, and off we went to win a national championship.
(12:50):
Was crazy.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
And then you circle back to work with Hugs later
at West Virginia, Right, yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
Then I go back Doug to West Virginia as the
ops guy four years as director of basketball operations. Back then,
you could not be on the court, right, So you're
doing a lot of administrative work, You're doing tickets, you know,
just doing a lot of different things. And then the
fifth year, he moved me up. And then I thought
I'd probably never leave unless it was a Division one opportunity.
(13:18):
But I took a real, real chance, and I took
a Division two job twenty five minutes down the road.
And you know, we had five unbelievable seasons at Fairmont State,
and I had a great staff, and you know, I
had Joe mazzoul on staff and various guys that are
now doing really well, and it was just an unbelievable run.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Okay, before we get to Fairmont, Okay, you're an opsky
My brother's first job at Standing the State with Steve
Fisher was the opsky as well, where he grew to
be in a full ton of system. What was it
like to be in Huggs ops guy? Like? What what
were his specific things that he wanted for travel for example?
Speaker 3 (13:58):
Yeah, I mean there was there was quite a bit.
We had a very very you know, strict menu. He
wanted a variety of food on the trips, so we
would have an Italian night, a barbecue knight, burger night.
I tried to keep them guessing on on the menu
the way we traveled, right.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
You know when we got to the hotel, we were
going to do certain things, you know, stretch film when
we had recruits in, you know, what what were things
going to look like, whether it was the locker room,
whether it was back then you could put the things
in the hotel rooms, you know. So I really learned,
you know, by the.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
Way, by the way, by the way, I mean, listen,
I understand, I'm not one of these guys that kills
the NCAA. But we can pay players now, we can pay.
Speaker 4 (14:44):
Them whatever we want to pay them, and yet we
cannot leave special things for them inside their hotel rooms
on a visit.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
Well, Doug, you don't know. Yeah, it's we could.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
We could literally pay them whatever we want, but we
can't leave like I wanted to. I wanted to leave
some cheeseheads, you know, and get a packer's jersey and
a name on the back of it. I thought this
would be a really cool thing to like, coach, we
can't do that.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
Yeah, it's you had a great you had a great episode.
I've listened to quite a few of your shows. You
don't realize, but I'm a big fan of yours. When
you kind of you kind of talked about all this
stuff in the NIL and the ability to you know,
it's just it's crazy times, you know. And now the
Juco rule and now the extra year. The rules have
(15:35):
changed so much, Doug. Every day I can't keep track
of it. I mean, I feel like I'm calling my
compliance guy daily to keep up. But back then there
were a lot of rules. You know, there was a
ton of rules. So it certainly has changed, and it's crazy.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Well, listen, my ops guy is Dennis Harrington, and he
finally came. I said, we actually found a really good
a really good hotel right on the water in Cincinnati.
We played Right State and I and and the food
was good, the rooms were good, rooms were big, and
it was it was a good adavoid des I know though,
(16:12):
like being the dobo is the most thankless job because
it's it's a little bit like you know that room
inside uh where you if you don't get your baggage
at an airport, there's that little room you got to
go to and you gotta, you know, tell them what
your bag looks like and fill a lot of paperwork whatever.
(16:32):
No one ever goes in that room and says, hey,
great job, I got my bag, thank you. You know,
they only come in there to complain. That's kind of
the dobo. No one ever goes like, hey, flight was
there on time, food was hot. Thanks. So if you can,
if you can, be a dobo, especially for hugs. Right
(16:52):
a little the older we get, the more particular we get.
You've obviously obviously earned your stripe. Okay, so Fairmont State,
how'd you get the job? Forget about the job? So
how'd you get the job?
Speaker 3 (17:04):
Yeah? I mean I went through the interview process. You know,
there was they said, over one hundred guys that interviewed
for this job. It had great tradition, Doug. It was
literally twenty five thirty minutes from you know, Morgantown, West Virginia.
Nice gym needed upgraded. So really just sold a vision
(17:24):
of how we were going to get it back. We're
going to get into the community. We raised a ton
of money. I had a lot of ties to a
lot of the people in the state, and I think
most of them thought I was nuts wanting the job,
but I wanted to be a head coach. I was
ready to call my own timeouts, run my own program.
I didn't care what level it was, and it was
the best gamble that I ever made. I took a
(17:47):
thirty thousand dollars pay raise. We got there the next
day after the press conference to practice, and there was
everything was set up from the night before, Doug, so
we couldn't even practice. We had to take down the
stage the podium, and I looked at my guy that
came with me, and I said, what did I just do? Right?
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Like?
Speaker 3 (18:07):
They didn't have practice for ready to go? And I
soon learned we didn't have all the help we had
at West Virginia, but it teaches you how to grind,
how to work, and then we got a great staff.
You know, we just kept getting better and better each year.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
What was what was the secret? Like, what's the secret,
sauce to your ability to build that culture so quickly?
Speaker 3 (18:29):
Yeah, I think it really is the time we spend
with the guys, Doug. You know, we do leadership meetings
every Monday, so I bring in the three captains of
my team. I've done this for a very long time,
and I first thing I say is what can I
do better? How can we be better? Who's struggling? There's
going to be two or three players on every team
(18:50):
that are really in the tank and struggling. How can
I help those guys? Are you guys happy with the food?
Are you guys happy with the massage? Therapy? You know?
What about practice? This is what our week looks like.
So I've always done it from like a collaborative effort
with the players and empowered those guys. And I have
felt that with this generation, this generation, Doug is so
(19:12):
different than how you and I came up. They want
to know the why. So I give it to him
early in the week and I think it's just been uh,
you know. Then we've transformed our offense. You know, we've
played fast, We've played free, We've played with space. You know,
I learned a lot from from you know, coach Missoula
and studying the game, and then we stole the matchup
(19:32):
zone from Northern Kentucky and you know here it's been tremendous.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Let's let's get to Let's get to Joe. Yeah, I
mean just a really kind of fascinating his own kind
of trajectory and brain. First time you met Joie Missoula
was wearing went well.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
I coached him at West Virginia. You know, he was
this this relationship coast back a long way.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
You know, I was the best man in his wedding.
He was on my staff for three years. We go
on you know, family vacations together. You know. His dad
was just dynamite. I mean he kep drive from from
Rhode Island in the middle of the night, go to
the game, sleep, go back the next day. I mean,
just an interesting guy. But Joe had a fire. You
(20:19):
know as a player, Doug, you could see it. You know,
he really just transformed his life after college. He really
devoted his life to God. He just grew grew so much,
you know, spiritually basketball wise. I saw the change after
year two, and I encouraged him. We shared an office, right,
(20:40):
so our office was like a closet at Fairmont State.
So the number of ideas that we had were just ridiculous.
I mean, both of us never stop with ideas. We're
probably not great for each other. We wanted to reinvent
the game of basketball, and we laughed because neither one
of us was very good back then. But we just
developed a great relationship and threw things off of each other.
(21:00):
And you know, I just people ask me all the
time and with interviews and stuff. When he won the title,
are you surprised? Well, obviously yes, But did I knew
he would be ready? Yes, if he ever got the opportunity,
that guy was going to be ready. He had been
planning for a long time. And uh, I think he's
(21:20):
gonna go down as one of the greats. I mean,
he inherited a great team. But you know he demands
the team. Uh you know, I've been to their practices.
The players love him and he runs great stuff.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
No, he does run great stuff. Wasn't Wasn't he a
holdover from bee Line? Though?
Speaker 3 (21:36):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Yeah, that's maybe the most amazing part, right is you know,
here's the guy who was a B line holdover. And
you know, so oftentimes now guys want to you know,
he didn't recruit me. I'm not his guy. They want
to leave like that's maybe an untold remarkable part about
the story is that he played for both he was
(21:58):
a B line guy, but then you know, he became
kind of a signature of of that that Final four team,
right in terms of his leadership with it. This really impressed,
like of the impressive things is one of the most
impressive parts.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
Yeah, I mean, Doug, we inherited quite a few good
players Dayshaun Butler, which is now on Joe's staff, well
Easton Smith Camp Thurman. You know back then, you you know,
those kids didn't transfer at the rip they do now, right, So, yeah,
he we ran the one three one zone. That's how
we beat cal Perry in the Elite eight to go
to the Final Four.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
And yeah again and for people obviously basketball people who
listen to this, they know this. But I mean you're
talking uh three lottery picks on Kentucky just a dominant
team and they could do nothing with the one three nothing. Now,
I will tell you, and I mean I know your
guys at Youngstown. I mean they'll, they'll, we're we're tinkering
(22:52):
with it. So my high school coach became a junior
college coach and won four state titles in cal Point.
And he says he was the only guy that bee
Line ever let stay with this team. That he was
there for like two weeks. So he became kind of
a savant with the one three one funneling guys, baking
(23:15):
and fanning, and so we've been it's we we broke
it out for two possessions Wright State and gave them
to Lambs.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
But you guys play them Sunday, right, Doug? Do you
play Youngstown next Sunday?
Speaker 1 (23:28):
We do? We do? We played, We played on Sunday.
We have you know, and as you know, the Horizon
League kind of weird schedule, no games this week, which
we needed. Then we played Milwaukee. Then we don't play
until Friday, Friday, Sunday, Wednesday.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
So uh so, well, yeah, your league is full of zone.
It's a people don't realize. The Horizon League is a clunky,
kind of a weird league to coach, and it makes
you really think you got the Northern Kentucky zone, you
got the Oakland zone, you got Cleveland State playing a
million defenses. You know, it's a weird league, Doug, I
(24:02):
think it is.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
It's a it's a weird league. But I'm really impressed
by the level of toughness and competitiveness for these teams.
Like they're just one team is is is tougher than
the next, you know it. So as we kind of
you know, learn from what we need to get. Obviously
we need to get older, but now older doesn't do it.
You need just really tough minded, super competitive kids, because
(24:28):
we just we just get beat up on the boards.
And just like again, I look, I look at Milwaukee
we're playing Saturday. I like their team because they're just tough,
you know, even when things aren't.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
But I've coached against bart and they're gonna play fast
and in free and you know, so you got to
probably slow them down, I'm sure.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
So so you get all the way to being the
runner up right in the at Fairmount, Yeah, what's that like?
Where you've built this thing into do you know, four years,
three straight tournaments going all the way to the championship
game and then you got an opportunity to go to
Division One. But as you point out at Youngstown, at
(25:09):
the time hadn't won. What's that like to the competitor
and you wants to finish it and wants to win
the national title as you did at the NAIA level,
and yet you always wanted to be a Division one
head coach. What was that like?
Speaker 3 (25:24):
Yeah? Great question, man. Frustrating right, Uh, you know I
lost to Ben McCollum, very very good coach at Drake,
good buddy of mine. Do you play those guys, Drake?
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Yeah? Yeah, we actually we ran a We didn't guard
two of them and we kept it. We were down
four with four to go. Man, they are so connected defensively.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
Yeah, I mean all those kids have played for him.
That's obviously a competitive advantage. But you know we we
lost to them by eight or nine points in national championship. Frustrated.
I think we had one of our worst offensive games.
You know, I don't know if he just tells me this,
but he said if we played ten out of ten,
he thought we'd beat him nine out of ten, he said,
by far the hardest national title that he won, but
(26:09):
he won four of them. But I get the nicest texts, Doug.
So I go back to my hotel room and I
get a text from Jim Tressel, who is the president
at Youngstown State, wanting to talk and talking about him
losing I believe two or three national championships at Youngstown
and would you have interest in the job. So fast
(26:31):
forward twenty four hours after the game, I'm on the
phone with Joe Missoula at my house basically asking him
if he's going to take you leave the G League
and take the job. Because we were so tight knit,
our coaches and our players that we really wanted Joe
to get the job. So I felt relieved and I
(26:52):
felt like it was the right thing to do, take
a new challenge with Joe getting the opportunity to run
Fairmount State. So it worked out really well.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Doug Gottlieb
Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific on Fox
Sports Radio in the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
So you get to you, you get the Youngstown What
was it like?
Speaker 3 (27:14):
Oh, first two years, Doug. That's why I'm rooting for you.
I love guys that have to have to figure things out.
You know, you're you're at a historical place that I
think could be good. Right, you got to get your inprint.
You gotta you know, and that's what we did. You know,
the first year we won eight games. We were not
(27:34):
very good. We were two and eleven in the non league.
What's crazy is we start on the Horizon League three
and zero and we think here we come right. And
I think we ended up winning five or six games
that year, and I learned more about running a program
during those trying times. The biggest mistake I didn't do
was work out. I got I became very, very depressed,
(27:58):
almost bottomed out. But I found new life at the
end of the year, and we came back and we
improved on eight wins. I believe we won thirteen or
fourteen the next and then we went for five straight
winning seasons. But you know, those kids went through a
lot with me, and I'll cherish that, and they've made
me the person and the coach. And it was tough, man,
(28:19):
it was really really tough losing like that.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
You know, you had won previously, so you knew what
you were doing would work. But I do think that
anybody who's reasonable you get that crisis and confidence. Is
this going to work here? Or is it gonna How'd
you overcome that?
Speaker 3 (28:39):
Yeah, we were just looking for you know, small wins.
You know, in fact, we played out here at Utah
State and we got excited about about our team diving
on the floor because we hadn't We hadn't dove on
the floor for the last three games. So we finished
two and eleven first year, and at halftime I was
going nuts because they were diving on the floor. You know,
things like that. Trying to keep a positive outlook, not
(29:03):
lose the team, and just really try to state mentally
locked in and not burn out, because I think you
see a lot of coaches, especially in our world today,
that can fizzle out. So I just tried to from
year one to year two, get the kids that really
wanted to be there, kind of fit who we are,
and developed a leadership team and just not look back.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
You know, the Horizon League championship team of two years ago.
Obviously I saw that team because close with my boy
and they played you guys in the n it at
your place. What's that like? Because we always you know,
when I'm working on TV, we always champion the team
that wins it, right, but we never talk about the
(29:48):
other side. You take the worst team in the league,
you turn them over six years into a league champion
and your reward is you have to go beat everybody
again and win the Horizon League tournament and you don't
what's that feeling like from a guy who had you know,
you've been in the National Championship game, you'd won a
(30:10):
national championship at the NA level, but to win the
league and to build, because that's really what you're trying
to build, Like then tournament's great, but you want to
win your league? What what is what are those emotions like?
Speaker 3 (30:20):
Yeah, that's that's that's a great, great point. You know,
it was frustrating. I felt like, you know, at our level,
at your level, there needs to be a little more
of a home court advantage. I always thought, you know,
back in the day, you know, the Horizon League champion,
when Brad Stevens and Gary Waters were in the league,
(30:41):
if you won the regular season, it was at the
host site. Right. I feel like at the Horizon League level,
you've got to protect a one seat a little better.
Right at the end of the day, where college sports
are headed, the power for us are going to own
uh the the NCAA tournament. It's just the reality. So
if you get a team that's older connected can go
(31:04):
win a game in the tournament. You got to protect
that seed. And you know, Indy's a great experience. Doug.
I think Julie your commissioner. Now I've been, you know,
part of the Big East, have been part of the
Mountain West. I think she's big time. I think she's
really really good. I think she could, you know, continue
to climb. I think the Horizon League does the best
(31:24):
they can, but I think it needs to go back
to the host site and protect that because there was
definitely very very deflated and now with the n i
T that being cut for load to mid majors as well.
I was very thankful that we got to host an
n i T first round game against Oklahoma State and
(31:45):
we just happened to be able to do it because
you know, Oklahoma State had something in their arena. But
it was deflating, you know it was. It still sits
in my stomach to this day that I didn't win
a Division two national championship. We're eight points away and
I wasn't able to get Youngstown to the NCAA Tournament.
But I feel like I left it in a good place.
(32:07):
I have great friends. My one of my good friends
was able to get the job again, you know, and
he you know, he was able to get a couple
of guys that are in my wedding on his staff
hired there. So it's just a neat thing when you
can leave a place and you kind of see like
other guys get their opportunity and.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
You know it.
Speaker 3 (32:28):
So, yeah, I think that that was very frustrating.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
Okay, you you get the job at you toasting. Now,
this is a place that I know really well. I've
done a ton of their games. They've had an Actually,
my the high school coach I told you about to
be given a junior college coach. He sent several players
there back when coach Morril was there. They have had
quality coach after quality coach after quality coach. There's a
(32:57):
really high bar set there, but especially with this day
and age sprinkles there a year and he's gone and
he takes he takes the best players. What's it like
to take over Utah State? Now you finally get to
essentially a high major with their success and you've been
(33:18):
winning a different part of the country and the coupver
wasn't bear but it definitely has been rated.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
Yeah, I mean the first thing we had to do,
Doug was was really do our research on the current roster.
I think so many guys come in and really spend
you know, I've done this three times and I've made
mistakes every stop. So I said, I'm not going to
make the same mistake. The biggest mistake I made at
Youngstown I spent too much time with the donors raising
money because we had no locker room, we had no this,
(33:47):
we had no that, no budgets. I wanted to spend
the first two weeks really getting to know every player
so great O Sabor, Joshua Duje, good big time players
that transferred out of here. I had countless meals with
I worked them out. I gave everything I had to
everybody in the program for the first two weeks and
tried to figure out who wanted to stay, who wanted
(34:08):
to be a part of this. And we did a
really good job of building those relationships, trying to sell
our vision of how we want to play offensively and defensively.
Did the research with Coach Morrell. He was my first call.
Talked to Coach Sprinkle, talked to Craig Smith, talked to
Ryan Odom and it was really neat Doug. I thought
(34:28):
one thing here that they nailed. They had four players
on the interview process. So when I walked into a room,
I had one hour with these kids, and I had
watched thirty one games on Utah State. It was a
job that I always wanted. I feel like you can
win a national championship here because the home court advantage,
(34:49):
the location. We have great high school basketball in Utah.
We're starting to get a lot of prep schools. There's
some really good juke goes in the area. And we
just hit the ground run and the kids were brought
in in the portal, you know from you know, the
returning guys and the new guys. It's been an incredible,
incredible story. You know, we lost great Osibor to the
(35:13):
portal and Nil and obviously his relationship with Coach Sprinkle.
We lost Joshaduje. We did lose some guys. We didn't
keep them all, but the ones we kept, I'd tell
you they really want to be here.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
I noticed behind you are all the Mountain West trophies,
right the recent mouse most trophies. And what's interesting about
that to me is it's like, I there's some Coach
Bennett stuff and I was like, I didn't earn that.
Let's not put that in my office. I didn't earn that.
How do you handle that? How do you handle you know,
(35:46):
Ryan had great success, Sprinkle had great success, Craig had
great success. Coach more obviously incredible historic success. How do
you handle just the awards and what you decided to
keep and what you said to us in your new office.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
Yeah, that's really funny. So I told our staff the
other day, Doug, I said, why are these trophies not
in the trophy case inside the spectrum? Well, the trophy
case is so old. We don't think it'll be able
to hold the trophies because these newer trophies wait so much.
And they said, Coach, every time we bring in a recruit,
we need to sell our history. One thing you feel
(36:25):
about this job, Doug every day, and Danny you know,
told me this and we talk quite a bit, is
it's a pressure cooker. Right, So you know, I think
they just think we're going to win in the spectrum
and we're just going to go to the NCAA tournament.
And you know we've been able to do it. We've
had a niche here, right, We've had great international players.
We've had great high school players. Our fan base is elite.
(36:48):
Now we're in a whole new ballgame. Right, I'm the
first coach to actually coach in the NIL world. You know,
we're we're middle tier in the NIL. Right, We're probably
six or seventh in total dollars for our roster. Right,
We've got to continue to move the needle on that.
In two years, we're going to opt into revenue sharing.
We're going to be in the same league as Gonzaga, Right,
(37:10):
So we got to keep changing and keep growing with
this job. And I think you know, it's a storied program.
It really is, and it's it's an honor to be here, man,
Like I wake up every day really really, you know,
just proud to come in. And when you have good
players Doug and good kids that buy into your offensive
(37:33):
system and defense. It's been unbelievable really, because I've had
two jobs.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
How do you identify in the portal who can play
for you?
Speaker 3 (37:44):
Yeah, So we have a kind of a metrics you know,
the point guard position. We really really value winning at
that point guard position. We really value speed. Right, So
we took Date and Allberry from Queen's. He didn't win
a ton of games, but he's really really fast. We
really study efficiencies. We talk with the kids about efficiency, right.
(38:08):
So one thing that I learned from Joe, it's not
you know, it's not the minutes, it's not the points.
We don't ever talk about that during the recruiting. We
talk about how much better can we make you and
your decision making in offense? Right, So we assist on
sixty five percent of our makes. So we do a
ton of red drills that I got from Joe, whether
that's a pick and roll, read an off ball screen,
(38:30):
read a drive, read a post read. We want our
guys to make high level decisions on the basketball court.
We want to play at a certain tempo. You know,
we have certain criteria for every position. This is the
first year that I've had a non shooting starting five,
So our backup is a shooting five. I got to
have one big guy that can stretch the d. We
(38:53):
want a lob threat. We want rim protection from the five,
and then we want three point guards on the roster.
I think so many teams are handcuffed because they only
recruit two. You got to have three, and then versatile
wings that can not only play out of pick and rolls,
but you know, read defenses, drive the ball, make threes
and interchangeable, right, the two, three and four is very
(39:15):
interchangeable for us.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
What is the one thing you do better now than
you did five years ago at Youngstown as a coach?
Speaker 3 (39:24):
Yeah, great question, more patient, better plan? You know, I
would say, communicate better with our guys. Don't overreact. You know,
I think you know you're there's a time you have
to show emotion. There's a time you have to get
on guys. I coached very angry two games ago, and
(39:45):
I didn't like it. After the game, I couldn't sleep,
but the kids, I couldn't get him to move. We
were playing Fresno State coach Wahlberg had his team more
ready than mine. So I became very angry, very angry
during the game at halftime. That's not me, That's not
who I am. So I got to be kind of
consistent how we're going to run the daily operation. I
(40:07):
rely on my assistance a lot more. Doug, I would say,
you know, you're you're going to learn that.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
You know.
Speaker 3 (40:14):
Empowering others is I think one of the greatest gifts
we can do as head coaches have them take ownership
of things, whether it's you know, skill work development, you know,
empowering your ops guy, making sure our players think our managers,
you know, our student managers. Two of my best friends
were managers. I started off as a manager at Cleveland
State and worked my way as a walk on. So
(40:36):
you know, you have to acknowledge everybody in the program
a lot and give thanks to those people. And I
think that rubs off on your team, and then everybody,
you know, really enjoys being around each other.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
You mentioned that the Horizon is a lot of zone,
kind of a Mucket up league. He in out West.
You got a little bit of everything there. I was you, Sandy,
the State has built theirs with defense and rebounding, scoring
in it. Just in that points to win. Coach Wahlberg,
you mentioned at Fresno, right, he's the dribble, he's the
you know, dribble, drive motion, shoot a ton of threes,
(41:12):
a little bit of a quirky style. What have you
noticed that's different about Mountain West basketball from Horizon League
basketball or Big East basketball?
Speaker 3 (41:25):
Yeah, we did a study, you know, in the offseason
on every team, uh kind of you know, how they
guarded pick and rolls, how they guarded off ball screening,
you know, a lot of different things. The thing that
I've noticed in the Mount West offensively with teams very deliberate,
a lot of pick and roll, slower paced league outside
of New Mexico, UH coaches want to you know, kind
(41:47):
of call a lot of sets. They want to get
the ball to their best players. Defensively at just a
huge emphasis on gap defense over helping. You have to
make below the free throw line reads. You have to
have the bill to make decisions at the rim, late kickouts,
a physical presence, Doug. The biggest difference between your league,
(42:09):
which I think is really really good. Lot of good
like upcoming coaches, those middle age type of coaches that
have their niche, and then you throw a great campy
in there that is going to throw a million sets
at you and play this the weirdest son I've ever seen.
I still can't figure it out. And he spoke at
my clinic when we were in the league together and
(42:30):
he's one of my best friends of this day. Just
a lot of things, you know, like so you gotta
I think you got to do this as a head coach.
You've got to have a system. You can't be a
control freak. I think you've got to be great in ATOS.
We have really done a good job in ATOS. If
you look at our efficiency, our baseline out of bounds,
I think we're in one of the best teams in
(42:51):
the country at executing and we do a tremendous job
in our off ball screening actions. I think everybody lives
in picking rolls. We've done more off ball screens this
year than I've ever done, and I got a lot
of that from Joe with the Tatum and Brown, those
wide pinned downs, those screen of ways. You know, there's
a lot of things you can do and be creative
(43:13):
with some of those off ball screens, but physical and
just a really good league.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
Has it setting yet? You know that that how easy
this transition, at least perception wise, has been. Has it?
Has it? I mean you're thirteen and one.
Speaker 3 (43:32):
You know, yeah, when you're winning, it's it's really easy.
Speaker 1 (43:38):
Right.
Speaker 3 (43:39):
I think everybody thinks that Tim Miles can coach vance
can I mean every is.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
A perfect example, right, Tim Elevant coach in the same
league obviously different resources now, right, but dominated the league
when he's at Calorio State, and now it's really hard
in San Jose. So but I mean my point is, like,
you know, there's apprehension with anything, and obviously you know
all the benefits to Utah State, but my goodness, the
(44:04):
start has to has to feel really good as it
as it set in. When you look around, you're like,
this is this works here, it'll work anywhere.
Speaker 3 (44:13):
Yeah, you know what it does, Doug. It just kind
of reaffirms to your players that hey, what we're doing,
you know, can can work in the game. And we've
been elite in the last three to four minutes of
every game we've won. You know, really what gave us confidence.
We went into Saint Mary's and won on the road,
right then the San Diego State, which hadn't been done
here in eighteen years, went on the road. Then we
(44:35):
go on the road, you know, to Nevada and placed
you know, Coach Alford, which has been awesome to me.
We have the same age and he's kind of you
know him and Coach Dutcher been really good to me.
Those guys are awesome guys. Have admired them from Afar.
You know, we're all fans of each other, and you know,
me being a you know, a younger coach, and I've
always watched the Mountain West. Those guys been great, So
(44:57):
it just kind of shows you, you know, we've we've
adjusted it to the game of basketball. Our players are
efficient players. And when you put we over me, and
everybody has all the different slogans and all the different signs,
and ours is real simple, we over me. The third
bulletin of every game is put the team over yourself, right,
(45:19):
and that can go a million ways. Right, make the
extra assists, make a screen assist, make a one more assist,
you know, defensively, communicate the coverage right, stop the ball
that's putting the team over yourself. And you know, these
kids have really embodied that and we were able to
do that at Fairmounty and Youngstown. And you know, if
we're lucky enough, fortunate enough to get in the NCAA tournament,
(45:41):
I think will be a really hard out because the
way we play, we're really good on both sides. Those
are the good mid major teams that make a run
at it. Doug, I think you've been doing it so long,
from your playing days to your you know, your coverage
of the tournament and your your show and now obviously coaching,
you've seen it. You got I have connectivity on both sides.
(46:01):
Because you could have a bad shooting night. We've been
able to overcome that. You could have a grand offensive
night and not guard, which we had the other night
at San Jose. You got to win in a variety
of ways, and I think those are the best teams.
Speaker 1 (46:14):
What would it mean to you to make that NZA tournament.
Speaker 3 (46:17):
It'd be incredible. You know. I've been wanting to get
back there for some time, you know, but not only
make it, Doug. You know, I think I truly believe this.
At Utah State you can win a national championship. You know.
I've talked to Dusty May, He's a good friend of mine.
Almost did it at Florida Atlantic coach Dutcher, at San
Diego State coach Larnaga, at George Mason Brad at obviously
(46:40):
Butler twice. There's been a whole slew of teams that
not only made it at our level, but also almost
won a national championship. And I think moving forward we
can do that.
Speaker 1 (46:51):
Yeah, there's a lot of people that you know, some
of the older guard getting out because for a myriad
of reasons, but one reason they don't like the road
we're on. You know, the portal is a lot. You
go to transfer out right away, makes it really hard.
You mentioned you're a locker room wh you're at Cleveland State.
(47:14):
You know guys that quit, guys that were staying. Now
you have Hey are guys wearing about next year where
they're going to play next year when you're in the
middle of your year. What about you? What are your
thoughts on on where college basketball is, where we're headed,
and what you would like to see evolve out of
this path?
Speaker 3 (47:34):
Yeah, Doug, So the show that I loved you did
the show in Lara Andega, I believe a couple of
weeks ago. I listened to that when we were on
the road, and you know, I agree with a lot
of the things that you have said about it. It's
not going anywhere, it's not changing, but just a couple things. Right. So,
we're fifteen and one. We're top twenty five in the country.
(47:54):
I think we're the only mid major team in the
country right now to be ranked. San Diego State's been there,
Drake's been there, whoever, But right now, as of today,
then it'll change, right I ask my guys. Today there's
fourteen guys on my roster. Eight of them have been
contacted by NIL agents. Eight of the fourteen. Various schools
(48:14):
have tried to try to get involved, right one being
not too far from here. It's totally out of control.
It's off the rails. Anybody that thinks it's not they're crazy, right,
So it's not going anywhere. How can we change it?
You know? Hopefully the revenue sharing is going to be
really good. We're not going to that till twenty five,
(48:35):
twenty six. You know, I really really worry about the
Horizon League and schools like yourself, that coaches like yourself
that are doing it the right way, developing players, you know,
out raising money, you know, really taking care of your players,
and you guys just being a feeder system. You know,
I worry about that with us, with my current roster.
(48:56):
It's on my mind every day. Can we keep this
team together, you know, because I think if we can,
it can be special. But I think, you know, with
the ni L, we have to have multi year contracts.
If a kid leaves, it has to be a buyout,
and there needs to be a whole restructure of the
landscape there.
Speaker 1 (49:15):
I think, I think, I think the multi year deal
is a big thing, I think. I honestly, the hard
part is and look, you know, do you contacted, kid?
Do you not contact I haven't contacted anybody. My guys
are told do not contact they kid, we have players
that have been contacted despite the fact that we're two
(49:37):
and fifteen or the opposite of the inverse of it.
But I think that's the hard part is everyone tells you, hey,
once they hit the portal, it's too late, right, But like, okay,
but I thought we're not supposed to talk to him
before they hit the portal. Like, I don't even know
how that works. And obviously you have the nil agents,
(49:58):
you have the parents, you have the au coaches, and
then you have the rumors of or this guy's leaving,
Like where did you hear that from? You know, I
think that the contacting of players on your roster. I
think that's the part that and the multi year deals. Uh,
you know, they got got to have the multi year deals,
and then the contacting of players your roster just has
(50:19):
to has to be eliminated. I don't know how.
Speaker 3 (50:20):
You know, Yeah, Doug, I'll lose my lose my mind,
and I'm sure you would too. I think that's just
totally unethical. You can't do it. Uh, they back channel,
they're going through the AAU coaches that sort of thing.
You know, we have two really good players that are
trying to be poached now, and I just take it
ahead on. I asked the guys, I explained to them
what the NIL agent can do for him. I do
(50:42):
think some guys it's good for But a lot of
guys can negotiate these deals themselves, right, So I see
both sides to it. But certainly, uh, the older coach
uh is is definitely there's a frustration level around the country.
You're seeing Hall of famers get out. But like guys
like yourself and I, we got to figure this out, right.
(51:04):
We gotta be a voice. Certainly with your platform you
can have a bigger voice. But I do think there'll
there'll be some changes here in the next couple of years.
With it.
Speaker 1 (51:15):
Last thing moving from your West Virginia and Ohio for
such a period of time. What's in Utah been like
for you?
Speaker 3 (51:23):
You know, Doug, It's beautiful. I wake up every day
we face mountains, the Wellsville Mountains. It's the most peaceful,
one of the safest safest environments. College Town. Just it
looks like a postcard, right, It literally looks like a
post guard of the mountains. Every day it's been different.
(51:45):
I have grown a lot bit, you know, I always
dreamed of coaching on the West coast, you know, in
the Mountain West. Never in a million years what I
think I'm in Logan, Utah coaching the Utah State Aggie.
So sometimes times, you know, it is so real and
I think it's.
Speaker 1 (52:02):
So much better where you are. And look, I'm a
Southern California got but the care factor is so minimal
in comparison to where you are. Your league cares right
New Mexico they care, you know, sunny at Wyoming as
they start winning, they care. You know, when I did
the Mountain West Tournament, there was a year there where
(52:24):
when coach Hi had a going at Wyoming where between Wyoming,
New Mexico Utah State, you know Utah back then was
in it in San Diego State. And then you know,
if you U and OLV is good, that place is
just alive. I actually, I think the Mountain West is
the best because people legitimately care and show up. Obviously
(52:48):
Utah State being you know at the top end of it,
along with New Mexico, but you kind of end up
nailing it, whereas the West coast, you get too far west.
There's too many things to do and basketball is just
kind of far down the list. And that's really why
I left as a player. Was my sister was a
UCLA cheater leader. My brother went there. We were season tickelovers.
But I can't tell you how many games I went to,
(53:09):
like nobody cared. Yeah, you know, and USC famously nobody cared.
And everywhere I went on a visit, they cared. So
I think there is a but Utah is a special
place and they love basketball.
Speaker 3 (53:22):
They absolutely love ball here. You know, it's.
Speaker 1 (53:24):
Neat never a Mormon church that doesn't have a hoop.
Speaker 3 (53:28):
Everyone, every single every single street we got a hoop.
Speaker 1 (53:31):
You're right, hey, listen, I I really appreciate. I know
how how valuable time is in the season. Uh, it's
great to catch up with you. Let's do so in
person at some point in time. But you guys are
killing it, and thanks for joining me.
Speaker 3 (53:45):
Coach, I'm rooting for you. Just don't don't beat my penguins.
On Sunday, I'm going to tune into that get my number.
I appreciate you, man, it's a big honor for me.
Speaker 1 (53:54):
Well, what a great conversation with coach Calhoun. And obviously
you can hear like he has thought of everything in
terms of who, what and where and why they're recruiting,
and you know, I mean like, look, there's a guy
who's put together a plan and executed that plan at
now three different locations. And as a as a young coach,
I learned a lot in that conversation. I think you
(54:16):
probably learned a lot and listening to it as well.
Thanks so much for listening and reminded. The Doug Gottlieb
Show airs daily three to five Eastern twelve to two
Pacific on Fox Sports Radio iHeartRadio app. You can also
download that podcast. We have a daily pod and the
radio show is pod pod version as well. Just type
in Doug we ever get pods in the meantime. Thanks
for listening. We'll be back soon. This is all ball
Host
Doug Gottlieb
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