June 11, 2024 • 38 mins
The streets talk, and they say Darren Seals was killed during an argument about music. But is this a red herring? The investigators work to pin down the details of a meeting Darren had in New York City with JayZ’s Roc Nation only one month before his death. Members of his rap group D.O.A. talk and lead us to a focus on another group Darren began managing during his final year, the Bottom Boyz. And a witness who saw the Jeep set on fire offers a description of the suspects involved, including “a white boy” with a ponytail.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Previously one after the uprising.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Yeah, so I'm at nineteen six forty Diamond Drive when it's.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
A call on fire and my working.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Line Seals was found shot inside a burning car in
Riverview on Diamond Drive.
Speaker 4 (00:18):
I do know that there is a lot of sentiment
in the community that they want justice, they want the truth.
Speaker 5 (00:23):
I believe that whoever did he knew him there ain't
wouldn't go nowhere with no random perfect that he don't know.
Speaker 6 (00:31):
I mean, it was forres Reed, that was our friend.
Speaker 7 (00:33):
They used to shoot Dicelelt all the time.
Speaker 8 (00:35):
So like when he gets attitudes, he used to turn
to somebody you would not think he was when he
got mad.
Speaker 9 (00:40):
They had like a dude on the news talking about it.
They like blurred out his face and everything. But like
he said that he's seeing what happened.
Speaker 10 (00:48):
One of the guys that was responsible for the lineup,
he was gunned down in his front yard pretty much
his retaliation.
Speaker 4 (00:53):
Are you able to give that name?
Speaker 7 (00:55):
It's a rapper man. He's in videos with him and everything.
Speaker 11 (01:09):
What you're looking for is the aftermath of the grand
jury deciding not to indict off.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
A nine year old Darren Seals was murdered before his
killer set his car on fire.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Once they put out the flames, they discovered Seal's body
inside with a gunshop.
Speaker 7 (01:32):
I want a gun on me?
Speaker 9 (01:33):
Am?
Speaker 10 (01:33):
I am?
Speaker 7 (01:33):
I whats your older brothers? Ferguson BD grab me by
my heart, slam me off the car. He says, you
might want to you might want to pick your enemies better.
Speaker 4 (01:49):
This is after the Uprising season two the murder of
Darren Seals.
Speaker 9 (02:01):
I am Tank the Machine. That is my artist in
my stage name.
Speaker 10 (02:05):
I'm about ten years eleven years deep in releasing music
at a professional level.
Speaker 12 (02:11):
Hip hop is it's a culture, but it's interwoven and
tethered to the Black experience, right.
Speaker 9 (02:19):
I don't think people.
Speaker 12 (02:20):
Really understand the depths of the of the parallels of
the black experience and the plight of the black people,
and how it just is interwoven with just the music
and the movement.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
In the last episode, Saint Louis rapper tef Po told
us it was his belief that Darren was murdered by
people from within the rap community. I'm talking to Tank
the Machine because not only was he close friends with Darren,
but as a Saint Louis rapper himself. I hoped he
could bring us inside that world, maybe get us closer
(02:53):
to finding Darren's color.
Speaker 10 (02:55):
Yeah, so me and Ron was just running tight. There
was just a random day where he pulled up in
my house on pull up.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
And he got Darren.
Speaker 9 (03:05):
He got d boy with us.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
When Tank says Ron, he's referring to Ron G, another
rapper who with Tank formed the hip hop group DOA.
Ron G didn't want to be interviewed for this podcast,
claiming that the memories of Darren and his killing are
too painful and he doesn't want to open those old wounds.
Speaker 10 (03:26):
He introduced me, He's like, man, it's my boy. He
was kids from a samehood. They both from Council Point.
They grew up in Council Point. This is right up
and Darren I just took behind.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
When Tank says Darren took five, he's referring to the
time when Darren was shot that we referenced in the
last episode. And Castle Point is a place I've gone
to all my life. A mid sized neighborhood in unincorporated
Saint Louis County, centered between Ferguson and Riverview. The area
suffers from what I would call political divestment, high poverty rate,
(04:01):
and many abandoned or vacant homes. The school district ranks
in the bottom five percent of the state. Ironically, the
street names are all royal, prince, Earl, lord, count, monarch.
This is where Darren connected with many who would join
his rap circle.
Speaker 10 (04:22):
I think he was healing up and I just start
hanging tight again, and me and Rond was already hanging tight.
So after he introduced us, I'm like, man, he was.
This dude got so much charisma personality. When you meet him,
you don't you don't either look them over.
Speaker 9 (04:37):
You're gonna hate him, but you're gonna have some type.
Speaker 10 (04:40):
Of exchange with him that you that's gonna be memorable
that you won't be able to forget.
Speaker 9 (04:45):
You know what I'm saying, And that's every time you
meet him, when anybody meet him, it's gonna be an exchange.
Speaker 10 (04:51):
That you don't remember you met him, for sure, But
also just like a natural charisma personality that allowed him
to be in faces.
Speaker 9 (05:00):
That normal people just could not get it into.
Speaker 10 (05:02):
If this is universally known about this guy, he was
keen like there was something about him that people admired
and I was like, okay, dude, cool as hell, and
me and him, me and him. Ranji just started hanging tight.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Darren ended up joining Tanking ron G and creating a
few songs. In the song Born Targets. In Darren's verse,
he raps about victims of Saint Louis police violence, like
Mike Brown Junior and Carrie Ball. He raps about the
Ferguson uprising and the burning Quick Trip gas station.
Speaker 7 (05:35):
But Michael Brown.
Speaker 8 (05:37):
To me, the last got a product tending them pictures
suit me.
Speaker 10 (05:41):
He was blunting their hands up, not his son.
Speaker 5 (05:44):
And the cops they think, you know, the start playing
the top.
Speaker 8 (05:48):
They wanted to ship the quickst tho turning it up.
Speaker 13 (05:51):
Saw that fucking quick tip we.
Speaker 7 (05:53):
Got the br up.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Darren also raps about his old nickname Dee Boy and
how that was a reference to his time as a
drug dealer, but how now that's all behind him and
he goes by the new nickname King D. Seals sent.
Speaker 5 (06:10):
They called me boy when I was whipping up that rock.
Now King D s.
Speaker 10 (06:20):
When we're shooting Bourn Target video, police followed us all day.
Speaker 9 (06:23):
Bus in U turn is all and down.
Speaker 6 (06:25):
And say we're all day.
Speaker 9 (06:26):
So and that was when we were all together.
Speaker 10 (06:29):
I can imagine, like you know, there was a lot
of times he was by himself, so like.
Speaker 9 (06:33):
We was aware, and he.
Speaker 10 (06:34):
Was aware that obviously he was targeting and maybe not
even a physical sense, but he was under some sort
of specific surveillance, you know what I mean, And that
was obvious.
Speaker 9 (06:45):
What was his emotion when he talked about it. I
ain't now saying Bruswatt, It's like he wanted all the
smoke outside of police.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Do you think other people had a problem with his activism?
Speaker 9 (06:57):
Absolutely? Anytime you unapologetic black, that don't go over wheel.
Speaker 10 (07:02):
It's just I mean, I mean, you look at everybody
in history, anybody unapologetically black and too loud, and you
got a little something about you that can go on
enough attention in people around you.
Speaker 9 (07:12):
They're all like that.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Tank and I talked about the Ferguson movement, and he
had a lot of thoughts about his involvement in the
street protests back in twenty fourteen.
Speaker 10 (07:22):
You're all matured, and I'm able to look at things
a lot differently than from a much broader and better
balance perspective.
Speaker 9 (07:33):
A lot of us were a lot younger.
Speaker 10 (07:35):
Full of misguided frustration and energy. I think the right
motivation was always there, but again, I think a lot
of us were not exercising our minds and potential at
its highest capacity. It takes nothing to stand on the
(07:56):
street and yell at somebody, but as a more seas
in person, that's still a part of this daily struggle.
I'm trying my absolute hardest to understand more effective ways
of really pushing for equality, justice, infurgument of our people,
(08:17):
you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
I wanted to know how to incard about Darren's murder.
Speaker 10 (08:23):
It was Tuesday morning. Ronjie called me and said that
his people had called him.
Speaker 9 (08:30):
Actually had anybody seen him?
Speaker 10 (08:32):
And he called me and said, you're saying him. I said, no,
I ain't seeing him. But he did call me last night,
but it was the day after it was the holiday.
Speaker 9 (08:39):
It was late day.
Speaker 10 (08:40):
He called me and I was just stuff because we
had just barbecue a good and.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
My phone rang out, said rang, And.
Speaker 10 (08:46):
I didn't even answer it because I was going back
to sleep, and it was the night before that.
Speaker 9 (08:53):
But that morning, yeah, I told Ron said no.
Speaker 10 (08:55):
I ain't seen him, but he didn't call me. That
My missus car and then Ron like, I'm gonna call
you back because Darren people was calling him while he
was on the phone with me, and Ron caught me
right back, and that's what he told me, that they
siound him.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
I got to the point and asked if he knew
who killed Darren.
Speaker 10 (09:16):
I personally feel like it's so sticky that it's hard
to decipher. Honestly, at one point in time, I had
a definitive as a.
Speaker 9 (09:28):
Now I just don't know, and that's just to be
totally honest with you.
Speaker 10 (09:33):
And I say that because, again, man, Darren wasn't a
one dimensional person. He had so much going on. He
had so much attention from so many different groups and
sectors of people with different viewpoints, and it's hard to decipher,
(09:53):
you know what I mean, Because as much as I
want to accredited to one thing, it's a real complex situation.
It was a kind of too sophisticated for one train
of thought, and then it was like a little mediocre
for another.
Speaker 9 (10:12):
So I can't even you know, however.
Speaker 10 (10:16):
He joins the list of a lot of soldiers and
revolutionary people, historic people that went before him.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
So tell me, how did you know Darren?
Speaker 14 (10:36):
I met Darren initially at a movement based type of thing.
Speaker 10 (10:39):
It was a.
Speaker 14 (10:40):
Concert that FLI Clan's opponent put on Cornel West cam
We were raising money for Mike Brown, but on the
way in I bumped into Bay was taking Machine ron
Gie and Darren Seals, and so he and I ended
up having a conversation, exchanging information, and then from that
point on I would just see him at a lot
of different activisty events. I think that the hip hop
and and social justice movements go hand in hand, especially
(11:03):
when it comes to black culture Latino culture.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
This is Tamor Dodd, better known by her rap name Bates,
as a woman in the Saint Louis rap scene. She
worked for years to get more attention in airtime for
female rappers on the local radio, and then joined in
the Rising Ferguson movement after the killing of Mike Brown Junior.
We talked about Darren's role in both of these worlds
(11:26):
and how his voice and platform seemed to make him
a target of surveillance by law enforcement.
Speaker 14 (11:32):
Sills was able to mobilize people fast, and a lot
of them with his mentality, which is very militant, but
which makes he's able to draw in other powerful people.
On top of it's getting mainstream coverage. He's laying on CNN,
He's laying on like MS and you see whichever one
it was, I can't remember. It got to the point
where Seals became a problem because he could attract a
lot of people who felt the same way he did.
(11:52):
And instead of him being like, let's just take out
take kids, let's protest, let's march, she was like really
ready to train people to combat against opposition. So I
think after that, once he started like his movement and
started meeting with people, I think that really probably grabbed
the ship out of them. This boy is mobilizing this
people think he's gonna do something. We gotta take him down.
(12:14):
During that time, it was just it was really rough
for us, and plus there was something unpresidented, like they
didn't know what to do but to treat us like
shit bacter seeing quin tail crow and all this other
stuff that they've done to us. Like if you know
anything about black history and how they're planning the mob
having killed that.
Speaker 9 (12:30):
This is real.
Speaker 14 (12:31):
Like it's not like like anyone that goes against the system,
Like they probably had a target on their heads to
be quite honest, I feel like that's the reason.
Speaker 9 (12:38):
Why he got.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
More after the break.
Speaker 4 (12:50):
Now back to the show.
Speaker 6 (12:54):
An argument where the argument that we're really low. You
know that he was killed during an argument, you know
what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
Do you have any can you give me any sense
of what the argument would have been over?
Speaker 7 (13:07):
Uh music?
Speaker 4 (13:08):
This is Shariff. Allen Sharif is the founder and owner
of Ragley, a website and music and media streaming app.
He's from Saint Louis and he knew Darren. Like Tef Poe,
Shariff believes Darren's murder was related to music. He also
believes he knew the specific motive.
Speaker 6 (13:26):
He had a meeting with rod Nation. But they feel
right that need words of the note and they feel
like he.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
Could do more.
Speaker 9 (13:35):
But he was showing to teeing him like Bro, I.
Speaker 6 (13:37):
Got a job at GM, I'm doing this, I'm doing
If they ain't want to hear it, I ain't gonna
say that on you want to say they group game bro,
But they had a group name that they went by
in shat Louis. And if you know who they was
and you know the group name, if they went back
with me, you know what I'm saying, but if you
also know and you know them, lose either guy kill
(13:57):
what a impresent for some other situation this life.
Speaker 4 (14:03):
If you don't know, Rock Nation is jay Z's record
label turned entertainment empire, Darren did meet one of their
A and R executives, and not just any executive, but
Lenny Santiago better known as Lenny s who had by
then spent twenty years with jay Z, had personally signed
DJ Khalin and others, and is a social media influencer
(14:24):
known for taking and posting some of the most intimate
photos of both jay Z and Beyonce. On August fourth,
twenty sixteen, Darren posted a photograph of himself standing with
Lennyes on his Facebook profile. Now, Sharif doesn't want to
say the name of the group of hip hop artists
that Darren managed and with whom Darren had that final argument,
(14:45):
but he doesn't have to. Not only did Bo Deane
tell us in episode one that the group Darren was
managing was called the Bottom Boys, it's also just easy
enough to find this out by reading Darren's Facebook page,
and according to Darren's Facebook post d tailing the Rock
Nation meeting, Lenny S had played eight of the Bottom
Boys songs and three of their music videos. Darren wrote
(15:07):
that Lenny responded well to the music and that he
provided good feedback. Further down in the post, Darren wrote
that quote, I got another week and a half before
I get the green light to fly to LA and
we take the next step. The Bottom Boys was a
group of three rappers who all linked up in Castle Point.
The members were Anthony Irvin, who went by the nickname
(15:28):
Keelo Lopez, Watson Simms who rapped as LP, and Ricky Smith,
who went by l R. They have several songs posted
to a SoundCloud page and several videos on YouTube. At
the beginning of the video for their song Can't Go,
you can see Darren driving in his jeep with a
young woman. It's likely this is one of the videos
(15:49):
that was played for Lenny S in that meeting. Here's
a brief clip of the song.
Speaker 10 (16:02):
We're Gonna Blow It, Were gonna blow it and we
gonna niggas who have fell.
Speaker 9 (16:06):
Out over host.
Speaker 7 (16:07):
No niggas who got back od for that.
Speaker 9 (16:09):
I can't go.
Speaker 15 (16:10):
I can't go, Even no niggas who'll make you for
your property's supposed to be your probably, but I can't go.
Speaker 9 (16:16):
I can't go.
Speaker 7 (16:17):
I can't go, and I.
Speaker 4 (16:18):
Can't go, and I can't go, and I can't go,
and I can't go, and I can't go.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
I was curious how realistic it would have been that
they were possibly gonna to sign Darren Seals or Bottom Boys.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
Or whether it was sort of like they just took
a meeting and Darren Bottom.
Speaker 9 (16:35):
Boys made more of it, you.
Speaker 6 (16:36):
Know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
Yeah, it sounds to me like they took a meeting
and they probably got favorable you know, responses in the meeting,
but that's not necessarily an indication that a deal is
guaranteed to happen. There's still a lot more process that
has to take place, you know, before an actual deal
is is uh put together. So I would say you're
(16:58):
right in your theory that it's probably more they had
a good meeting, they probably thought more of it than
what it was.
Speaker 4 (17:06):
This is Quay Sean Carter. He's the childhood friend of
Sean Carter aka jy Z, and he's the owner of
Q Global Entertainment, where he's worked with the Yin Yang Twins,
The Nappy Roots, PD Pablo, and Saint Louis Rapper Huey.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
From my experience just taking one meeting, if a record
label is that interested in you in the first meeting,
they won't let you leave. They'll they'll try to get
the deal done before you leave, you know. So the
fact that they had the meeting and left meant that
now the record company is going to go through their
due diligence process, which is typically to pass on your
(17:41):
project to the research department, who will go online and
start to research to find out, you.
Speaker 13 (17:46):
Know, what exactly do you have going on, you know,
how much influence you have on the marketplace, how much
the consumer following and buying into your brand awareness, and
then they would make a determination on you are you know,
qualified for them to want to make an offer or not.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
So that's my answer to that.
Speaker 4 (18:07):
Hoping to understand exactly what went down. When Darren went
to the offices of Rock Nation in New York City
to pitch the Bottom Boys, I asked Quay Sean, what
was the smartest way of going about getting in touch
with Lenny s.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
I would recommend just reaching out to a publicist, okay,
and letting the PR person reach out to Rock Nation's
PR department and to be a big at set of
meeting up. That would be the way to do it,
rather than trying to go through a homeboy or anything
like that. And then when you do you can always say, hey,
you know I spoke to quay Sean. He spoke very
highly of you, said you're a music guy. Those things
(18:42):
will help him to become even more eased at having
a conversation with you.
Speaker 4 (18:49):
Taking Quayshan's advice, we reached out to Rock Nation asking
for a conversation with Lenny s. We heard back from
the VP of Communications, Jana Fleischmann, but she insisted that
she would only speak with us off the record, which
was obviously frustrating. After that conversation with Jana, I sent
a follow up email. My email, crafted using quotes from
(19:10):
Darren's social media posts about his meeting with Lenny, basically
asked if Darren was correct that Lenny did hear eight
Bottom Boys songs and watched three of their videos. I
asked if there wouldn't have been some follow up by
Lenny or his assistant regarding a final decision by Rock
Nation about the Bottom Boys, but we never heard back.
Speaker 8 (19:31):
I met Darren Seals. I want to say two thousand
and nine. We actually made it in a halfway house.
Speaker 4 (19:37):
This is rapper and activist Tbow.
Speaker 7 (19:40):
I met him was one night, late night.
Speaker 8 (19:42):
I'm hearing the conversation and I could tell somebody is
not talking to somebody inside the dorn It's a phone conversation.
So I see him and he has a cell phone.
So I'm like, bro, how you get that in here?
He said, I'll show you tomorrow. I had a baby
on the way at the time, my first son, so
I wanted to stay in contact with the mother who
was my fiance at the time, and he showed me
how to get the phone and learn and establish our relationship.
Speaker 4 (20:04):
Darren was in that halfway house as part of the
condition of his probation stemming from a two thousand and
seven conviction for the distribution of cocaine. Well, how does
he end up doing work with bottom boys and how
does that affect the relationship?
Speaker 7 (20:17):
What was going on there?
Speaker 8 (20:19):
I think it became he started to see how how
political the Saint Louis music scene was, and he believed
in so much that people around him, and he saw
the road blocks the others that came before us were
put up for artists that wasn't in their circle or
they didn't vouched for and he he didn't really want
(20:41):
to be a part of it.
Speaker 7 (20:43):
So he just wanted to help others.
Speaker 8 (20:45):
And he met some people, you know from his neighborhood,
young guys that you know, they out, you know, running
the street, making them same mistakes that we made when
we was that age. But they got talent, and you know,
he see them and he just want to help them
get out of the situation that there is.
Speaker 7 (21:01):
He want to push them, so he get behind him.
Speaker 8 (21:03):
He really he stopped rapping really all together, you know,
so he wasn't even rapping with Tanking Roan g even
though they were still making music as Da d Boy wasn't,
you know, he wasn't making any music. So he get
the young guys, you know, he start pushing them as management.
And in regards to rapping hip hop, the industry will
extort you and take advantage of me if you don't
(21:26):
know the proper things. And there was certain things that
I was trying to explain to him that I didn't
want him to make the mistakes on in regards to
wasting time and money, for instance, you will get people
that are connected to a and RS or used to
be an RS that will tell you, oh, well, you know,
if you pay me this amount of money, I can
(21:46):
walk you in to have a meeting with the record label.
And when you're young, you make those mistakes that you're hungry.
You just want to get out the ghetto. You know
you got the talent you like, you know what, fuck it,
I'll pay this. I just want a chance. I want
to change my life. I want to get up the streets.
So I want to help my people get out the streets.
You will take those chances.
Speaker 6 (22:05):
Me.
Speaker 8 (22:05):
I was blessed to have some people around me at
a young age that educated me about how those scams operate.
Speaker 7 (22:12):
So for it was a particular situation the Darren.
Speaker 8 (22:16):
Was extremely excited about and he was supposed to have
a meeting with rock Nation for Bottom Boys up in
New York, and I tried to explain him. I said, look, bro,
if a record label wants you and they're interested in
speaking with you and doing business with you, first and foremost,
they're not gonna make you buy your own flights. They're
flying you out, they putting you in the hotel, they
feeding you. And it wasn't clicking for him. And his mind,
(22:39):
it's like, oh, bro, like you hating on the opportunity.
Now I'm trying to educate you. And I think he
gassed up the young men's to the point to where
they really thought they was gonna go out there and.
Speaker 7 (22:50):
Get a deal.
Speaker 8 (22:52):
They fly out to New York, they have a meeting allegedly,
and nothing ever happens from me. So I think his
relationship with them started to because he was saying that
they were going to do all these things, but they're
not really understanding the work, the connections, the money you
got to put behind.
Speaker 7 (23:10):
They not really understanding how this business work.
Speaker 8 (23:12):
It's not going to be an overnight thing, especially coming
from Saint Louis. It's damn there, like you're trying to
get struck by lightning on purpose.
Speaker 4 (23:19):
Sharif Allen said that he heard Darren was killed because
of an argument about music and that it had something
to do with the Bottom Boys and a possible record deal.
I asked two what he thought about.
Speaker 7 (23:30):
It when the situation occurred.
Speaker 8 (23:33):
I'm not gonna name any names, but I did get
a kite saying that something happened to d Boy. And
this was before someone close to him actually called and
let this information out. And then we see the post
from his girlfriend, and you know, I contact the people.
Speaker 7 (23:48):
That he was close with.
Speaker 8 (23:49):
You know, the confirmed situation was true, but how it happened,
It's only so many people that could have got inb
out that house. I was told that, you know, a
lady called his phone, but then it switched to saying,
you know, one of the guys from Bottom Boys called
his phone and invited him somewhere. You know, So the
(24:10):
girl that he was with, you know, she was saying,
you know, it was a girl that called him and
he went out, and then you know, other people started
to say that it was it was the guy from
you know, his rap group that called him. So it's
just so many different conflicting statements. So the minute it happened,
of course, you know, everybody ran with assumption, oh you know,
(24:31):
police killed them, Police killed him, and a lot of
us that was that was close to him, we started
to have conversations about these things, and I'm like, you
know what, the boy had a powerful voice, but his
voice alone wasn't a threat enough to the system for
them to murder him. There was so many it's so
(24:52):
many others that they could have got out the way
or they've been trying to get out the way.
Speaker 7 (24:58):
I I was, oh that this was street related. They
finally caught up with them.
Speaker 8 (25:06):
One thing about the streets, the streets are always gonna
tell you what took place. You may not have all
the details, but you're gonna hear, Okay, this is possibly
how this happened. And unfortunately, like I said, we all
got a past, we all got a history. When you
jump off the porch and you get involved in street activity,
there's two underlying details. When you sign that contract to
(25:30):
jump off the porch. One of the outcomes is death.
One of the outcomes is jail, and you get a
select few. By the grace of God or whatever you
know you believe in that you make it out unscathed,
which is rare, you know. So those of us who
lived their life, we understand. Do we like it, absolutely not,
(25:55):
but we understand that was one of the underlying clauses
that we signed up. But this is the thing, as
you said, with them watching and surveilling like they have been,
they would know exactly how that situation occurred. But the
thing is, at the end of the day, he's a
black man in Saint Louis. He was speaking out against
(26:15):
the system. They don't They don't give a fuck about
providing any type of justice for his family or the community.
Speaker 4 (26:21):
So when you say you were told that the murder
was street related, was it music and street related?
Speaker 9 (26:26):
And can you give me any sense of what you've heard.
Speaker 7 (26:29):
That that that?
Speaker 8 (26:30):
I can't because when it's that type of situation and
people are telling me those type of things, I don't
really want to know the details.
Speaker 7 (26:40):
And this and this is the thing I love.
Speaker 8 (26:44):
I love that we, like I said, we met two
thousand and nine, we established relationship.
Speaker 7 (26:49):
It was we was brothers.
Speaker 8 (26:52):
Towards the end, we butted heads a lot because d
Boy was extremely passionate and.
Speaker 7 (26:58):
Once he knew something, he knew, even if it was
the wrong thing to know.
Speaker 8 (27:03):
So whenever you tried to correct them on something, to
give him some information that was outside of where he
had his mindset, he would fight against that with all
his heart.
Speaker 4 (27:19):
If TBO knew the specifics about who killed Darren, like
Tank the Machine, he wasn't going to tell us. As
tef Po had said that before Darren's death, he'd been
running with some new and untrustworthy people. I figured I'd
ask TDBO about that and he told us there was
a man in Hands Up United, the Ferguson based outreach
group he volunteered with that they'd had to remove.
Speaker 8 (27:41):
He used to be a part of Hands of United,
but never wanted to do the work. He just wanted
the attention. He wanted to do the interviews, but he
never wanted to volunteer time. So once we let him
go from the organization, he lashed on a debut because
he saw the power in the voice that he had
social media wise, he had d boy around a.
Speaker 7 (28:02):
Lot of questionable people involved in the movement.
Speaker 8 (28:05):
A lot of questionable people, and I tried to warn
them about it, but towards the end it came out
and he started to separate itself. But like I was
saying in regards to the street situation, I don't think
music had anything to do with it at all at all,
Absolutely not. That was something that I've never heard And
(28:26):
if there's a room and that floating around, it's absolutely
not true.
Speaker 4 (28:30):
The people from the rap world who knew the streets
and who knew Darren Well seem to have heard and
seemed to believe different things about why he was killed
which makes it hard to know which direction to move
in to try to find his killer. Fortunately, though, there
was an eyewitness who gave his account more after the break.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
Now back to the show. If you recall from our
interview with Bodine in episode one, he mentioned that he
had a fuzzy memory of a news report with a
witness to Darren's killing. We found that what he was
referring to was an interview filmed by friends of Darren's,
Darnell Singleton and Amir Brandy, who had gone to the
(29:18):
crime scene immediately after hearing that Darren had been murdered.
After filming this interview, Amir formed an independent media company
called Real STL News. They were kind enough to share
that interview with us. Because the audio isn't the best,
we will reiterate what the witness says.
Speaker 11 (29:38):
Okay said Anna France smoking or whatever in Ayama Pardner
I heard, of course, so I'm like, let me see
what disease.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
The man who was a resident of the Ridgeview apartments
where Darren's body was found, had been sitting on his
front porch smoking when he heard a car with a
HEMI engine pull up came around.
Speaker 11 (30:00):
It was the jeep in front, it was a christ
like three hundred. When he hear me in behind it
and it was another silver Ford or a City or
something like like that. I couldn't really see because it
was dirt up on the third floor. The Chrystler was like,
it's like either silver.
Speaker 9 (30:13):
Or is great.
Speaker 11 (30:13):
I couldn't really tell the color surreal because it's dirt.
Speaker 9 (30:16):
Plus I was I thought I was chipping.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
The witness says there was a train of cars that
pulled into the parking lot. Darren's jeep was in front,
followed by what he thought was a Chrysler three hundred
with a Hemi engine, and in the rear a silver
Ford or Chevy. He wasn't exactly sure about the colors
because he was on the third floor and it was nighttime.
Speaker 15 (30:39):
So he can't even drive it because it was the state.
Speaker 11 (30:42):
I realized it the stake by the way it was
fucking sounding like he almost ran and ran into the
buses when any time he tried to pull off for
the cutoff because he's not putting it in a year,
I noticed on all the driver stick I'm like, oh man,
how you gonna steal a car?
Speaker 14 (30:53):
You know?
Speaker 11 (30:54):
And all the driver I thought it was just a stoke,
so when he parked it, he couldn't even park it
for real because it kept rolling like that.
Speaker 7 (31:01):
He can any part of the core.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
The witness recognized that whoever was driving the jeep was
struggling with the stick shift, and that the driver almost
accidentally drove into the bushes because of the driver's inability
to operate the stick shift. He presumed that the jeep
was stolen, but.
Speaker 11 (31:19):
The whole time I thought it was a stolencal dude
got out the Core with some white socks on his hands.
It was there was only one dude that got out.
Speaker 15 (31:25):
He was like, yeah, black and he.
Speaker 11 (31:27):
Had dreads to come and think about it.
Speaker 9 (31:30):
He had some socks on.
Speaker 11 (31:31):
His hand, and he wouldn't be big from where I
was sitting there. He let he's probably thought your side,
and he's like, he's about his size. I'm probably a
little bit shorter than.
Speaker 7 (31:42):
It really because I.
Speaker 11 (31:43):
Was on the third floor from what ould see and
looked at tall. Okay, he didn't.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
The witness goes on to repeat that he thought the
jeep was stolen because the man who got out of
the driver's seat once it was parked was wearing socks
on his hands. He described the man as black with
dreads and as not being very tall, he guesses perhaps
five foot six or seven.
Speaker 15 (32:07):
He got off the court and ran up to the
christ of three hundred and they pulled off. They went
back towards Riverview, and I thought they was gonna come
back and take the rings off of it, because you know,
I'm like, that's a jeep, Like they could coming late.
They like isa what I was thinking, But the whole time,
not knowing there was a biting in there.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
The witness explains that the driver of the jeep with
the socks on his hands got into the Chrysler three hundred,
and that car and the third vehicle, which he guessed
was a Chevy or Ford, both pulled back onto the
road and headed towards Riverview. Thinking they would have stolen
the rims from the jeep, he was confused that they
drove away and abandoned the vehicle, But what he said
(32:49):
next was the most shocking part of his interview.
Speaker 11 (32:53):
But a white boy came from really good way through
the woods, and I'm thinking he's gonna come try and
find him. I'm not really paying attention, and by the
time I turned away and look back. The whole cause
of flights like.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
The whole thing with The witness claims that after the
two other vehicles departed the parking lot, a white man
with a ponytail emerged from the tree line and approached
the jeep. He thought the man must have been out
there to buy crack, and after looking away for a
split second, he looked back and the jeep was engulfed
in flames. Speaking to Darnell and a mirror by phone,
(33:31):
they told us what they saw when they went to
the crime scene the day Darren died.
Speaker 5 (33:36):
I work in a laws so you know, I go
through crime scenes and process information from those scenes. But
to actually go to that scene and see fenkase scenes
that on that scene the door of his vehicle filled
being on that scene and not being processed. We took
(33:58):
pictures of all of it stuff on that date. They
didn't investigate that case.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
Darnell quickly turned to talking about the witnessed.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
Interviewed the eye with being a mirror that after somebody
exited that christ for three hundred and got into another
car and took off. He said, a white boy came
from out of the woods. You remember that a mirror.
Speaker 5 (34:22):
He said, a long longher A guy would loan her
ad a ponytail.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
He said, a white boy came from out of the woods.
Next thing he know, the car was on.
Speaker 13 (34:32):
He said.
Speaker 5 (34:32):
He looked away for a second and the flames caught
his attention.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Now get this ray connect me. The next day that
me and Amir went out there, Amir had the drone
up in the air. We see this white guy pull
up in the pickup truck whil Amir's got the drone
in the air and it was so curious that he
(34:57):
walked over to where the door was. He was just
kind of looking around through He was looking for some
in particular. Yeah, he was looking for something. And I
turned to a mirror and I said, record that. We
need to record that. Get his license plate and everything.
So if Mayor Pools was rolled over, the guy instruct
and records this.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
Reviewing the drone video they shot, there's an older looking
white man driving a dark colored forward pickup truck with
a camper shell. A few activists approached the driver's side
window to speak with him, and no, he doesn't appear
to have a ponytail.
Speaker 5 (35:33):
Saint Louis County Homicide they actually came to the law
office a sergeant and a lieutenant, which I found to
be quite strange that a sergeant and a lieutenant would
be you know, usually that's not an assignment for a
sergeant and a lieutenant. They came down, they came, came
over to the office, sat down and talked, talked to
me for a few minutes in reference to the videotape
(35:55):
and the content, and I gave him. I gave them
a copy of that. Never heard any anything else from dam.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
If the witness from the Ridge View apartments is to
be believed, Darren was not killed at the apartment complex
where his body was found because the witness never heard
any gunshots. If the witness is to be believed, there
are at least three people involved in Darren's murder, and
possibly a fourth the drivers of the three vehicles and
(36:32):
the mysterious white man who emerged from the shrubs who
may have been the one who set Darren's jeep on fire.
After the fact, we wanted to begin certifying these details,
and we knew the best way to do that was
to visit the scene of the crime ourselves. That's next time,
and after the uprising.
Speaker 4 (36:56):
After the uprising as a production of Double Asterisk and
iHeart in association with True Stories. Season two was written, reported,
and produced by Maria Chappelle, Nadal, John Duffy, Mallory Kenoy,
and Renovashlski. Executive producers are Nikki Atour and Lindsay Hoffman
for iHeart Podcasts, John Duffy and Renoviashewski for Double Asterisk,
(37:17):
David Cassidy and Ruth Baka for True Stories. Directed by
John Duffy and Renoviashlsky. Theme song and score by Zachary Walter.
Sound engineering and mixed by John Autry. Fact checking by
Muffin Humes. Marketing by Alison Canter, Fair Use legal by
Peter Yazzi and Brandon Butler. Legal by Holly Decan for
iHeart Podcasts and Keith Sklarr for Double Asterisk Missouri Sunshine
(37:41):
Legal by David Rowland. Show logo by iHeart Podcasts using
a photo by Attillo Dagostino. Our interns were Hannah Madura
and Rosemary Fiery. Website by Stephanie Clark. Recorded at David
Weber's Airtime Studios in Bloomington, Indiana. We want to acknowledge
additional investigation that became part of This podcast was conducted
(38:03):
by Detective Adams in the Saint Louis County Police and
the FBI, who did not participate in this podcast, and
by a Mere Brandy Mosey, Secret and Darnell Singleton. If
you like our work, check out our other podcasts. You
can find us at double asteriskmedia dot com and on Twitter, Instagram,
and Facebook. Support us on Patreon. If you're enjoying the show,
(38:25):
leave us a rating and review on your favorite podcast app.
Thank you to Jamie Dennis, Danny Gonzalez, Jonathan Hartwig, Bethan Macalouso,
Matt McDonough, Melissa McKinnes, Ryan Mears, Tony and Valovyshlski and
the family and loved ones of Darren Seals, Bottom Boys
and Doa. Tracks used via fair use, So was the
(38:45):
news reporting. Archival copyright twenty twenty four Double Asteriskink
Previously one after the uprising.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Yeah, so I'm at nineteen six forty Diamond Drive when it's.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
A call on fire and my working.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Line Seals was found shot inside a burning car in
Riverview on Diamond Drive.
Speaker 4 (00:18):
I do know that there is a lot of sentiment
in the community that they want justice, they want the truth.
Speaker 5 (00:23):
I believe that whoever did he knew him there ain't
wouldn't go nowhere with no random perfect that he don't know.
Speaker 6 (00:31):
I mean, it was forres Reed, that was our friend.
Speaker 7 (00:33):
They used to shoot Dicelelt all the time.
Speaker 8 (00:35):
So like when he gets attitudes, he used to turn
to somebody you would not think he was when he
got mad.
Speaker 9 (00:40):
They had like a dude on the news talking about it.
They like blurred out his face and everything. But like
he said that he's seeing what happened.
Speaker 10 (00:48):
One of the guys that was responsible for the lineup,
he was gunned down in his front yard pretty much
his retaliation.
Speaker 4 (00:53):
Are you able to give that name?
Speaker 7 (00:55):
It's a rapper man. He's in videos with him and everything.
Speaker 11 (01:09):
What you're looking for is the aftermath of the grand
jury deciding not to indict off.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
A nine year old Darren Seals was murdered before his
killer set his car on fire.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Once they put out the flames, they discovered Seal's body
inside with a gunshop.
Speaker 7 (01:32):
I want a gun on me?
Speaker 9 (01:33):
Am?
Speaker 10 (01:33):
I am?
Speaker 7 (01:33):
I whats your older brothers? Ferguson BD grab me by
my heart, slam me off the car. He says, you
might want to you might want to pick your enemies better.
Speaker 4 (01:49):
This is after the Uprising season two the murder of
Darren Seals.
Speaker 9 (02:01):
I am Tank the Machine. That is my artist in
my stage name.
Speaker 10 (02:05):
I'm about ten years eleven years deep in releasing music
at a professional level.
Speaker 12 (02:11):
Hip hop is it's a culture, but it's interwoven and
tethered to the Black experience, right.
Speaker 9 (02:19):
I don't think people.
Speaker 12 (02:20):
Really understand the depths of the of the parallels of
the black experience and the plight of the black people,
and how it just is interwoven with just the music
and the movement.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
In the last episode, Saint Louis rapper tef Po told
us it was his belief that Darren was murdered by
people from within the rap community. I'm talking to Tank
the Machine because not only was he close friends with Darren,
but as a Saint Louis rapper himself. I hoped he
could bring us inside that world, maybe get us closer
(02:53):
to finding Darren's color.
Speaker 10 (02:55):
Yeah, so me and Ron was just running tight. There
was just a random day where he pulled up in
my house on pull up.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
And he got Darren.
Speaker 9 (03:05):
He got d boy with us.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
When Tank says Ron, he's referring to Ron G, another
rapper who with Tank formed the hip hop group DOA.
Ron G didn't want to be interviewed for this podcast,
claiming that the memories of Darren and his killing are
too painful and he doesn't want to open those old wounds.
Speaker 10 (03:26):
He introduced me, He's like, man, it's my boy. He
was kids from a samehood. They both from Council Point.
They grew up in Council Point. This is right up
and Darren I just took behind.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
When Tank says Darren took five, he's referring to the
time when Darren was shot that we referenced in the
last episode. And Castle Point is a place I've gone
to all my life. A mid sized neighborhood in unincorporated
Saint Louis County, centered between Ferguson and Riverview. The area
suffers from what I would call political divestment, high poverty rate,
(04:01):
and many abandoned or vacant homes. The school district ranks
in the bottom five percent of the state. Ironically, the
street names are all royal, prince, Earl, lord, count, monarch.
This is where Darren connected with many who would join
his rap circle.
Speaker 10 (04:22):
I think he was healing up and I just start
hanging tight again, and me and Rond was already hanging tight.
So after he introduced us, I'm like, man, he was.
This dude got so much charisma personality. When you meet him,
you don't you don't either look them over.
Speaker 9 (04:37):
You're gonna hate him, but you're gonna have some type.
Speaker 10 (04:40):
Of exchange with him that you that's gonna be memorable
that you won't be able to forget.
Speaker 9 (04:45):
You know what I'm saying, And that's every time you
meet him, when anybody meet him, it's gonna be an exchange.
Speaker 10 (04:51):
That you don't remember you met him, for sure, But
also just like a natural charisma personality that allowed him
to be in faces.
Speaker 9 (05:00):
That normal people just could not get it into.
Speaker 10 (05:02):
If this is universally known about this guy, he was
keen like there was something about him that people admired
and I was like, okay, dude, cool as hell, and
me and him, me and him. Ranji just started hanging tight.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Darren ended up joining Tanking ron G and creating a
few songs. In the song Born Targets. In Darren's verse,
he raps about victims of Saint Louis police violence, like
Mike Brown Junior and Carrie Ball. He raps about the
Ferguson uprising and the burning Quick Trip gas station.
Speaker 7 (05:35):
But Michael Brown.
Speaker 8 (05:37):
To me, the last got a product tending them pictures
suit me.
Speaker 10 (05:41):
He was blunting their hands up, not his son.
Speaker 5 (05:44):
And the cops they think, you know, the start playing
the top.
Speaker 8 (05:48):
They wanted to ship the quickst tho turning it up.
Speaker 13 (05:51):
Saw that fucking quick tip we.
Speaker 7 (05:53):
Got the br up.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Darren also raps about his old nickname Dee Boy and
how that was a reference to his time as a
drug dealer, but how now that's all behind him and
he goes by the new nickname King D. Seals sent.
Speaker 5 (06:10):
They called me boy when I was whipping up that rock.
Now King D s.
Speaker 10 (06:20):
When we're shooting Bourn Target video, police followed us all day.
Speaker 9 (06:23):
Bus in U turn is all and down.
Speaker 6 (06:25):
And say we're all day.
Speaker 9 (06:26):
So and that was when we were all together.
Speaker 10 (06:29):
I can imagine, like you know, there was a lot
of times he was by himself, so like.
Speaker 9 (06:33):
We was aware, and he.
Speaker 10 (06:34):
Was aware that obviously he was targeting and maybe not
even a physical sense, but he was under some sort
of specific surveillance, you know what I mean, And that
was obvious.
Speaker 9 (06:45):
What was his emotion when he talked about it. I
ain't now saying Bruswatt, It's like he wanted all the
smoke outside of police.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Do you think other people had a problem with his activism?
Speaker 9 (06:57):
Absolutely? Anytime you unapologetic black, that don't go over wheel.
Speaker 10 (07:02):
It's just I mean, I mean, you look at everybody
in history, anybody unapologetically black and too loud, and you
got a little something about you that can go on
enough attention in people around you.
Speaker 9 (07:12):
They're all like that.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Tank and I talked about the Ferguson movement, and he
had a lot of thoughts about his involvement in the
street protests back in twenty fourteen.
Speaker 10 (07:22):
You're all matured, and I'm able to look at things
a lot differently than from a much broader and better
balance perspective.
Speaker 9 (07:33):
A lot of us were a lot younger.
Speaker 10 (07:35):
Full of misguided frustration and energy. I think the right
motivation was always there, but again, I think a lot
of us were not exercising our minds and potential at
its highest capacity. It takes nothing to stand on the
(07:56):
street and yell at somebody, but as a more seas
in person, that's still a part of this daily struggle.
I'm trying my absolute hardest to understand more effective ways
of really pushing for equality, justice, infurgument of our people,
(08:17):
you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
I wanted to know how to incard about Darren's murder.
Speaker 10 (08:23):
It was Tuesday morning. Ronjie called me and said that
his people had called him.
Speaker 9 (08:30):
Actually had anybody seen him?
Speaker 10 (08:32):
And he called me and said, you're saying him. I said, no,
I ain't seeing him. But he did call me last night,
but it was the day after it was the holiday.
Speaker 9 (08:39):
It was late day.
Speaker 10 (08:40):
He called me and I was just stuff because we
had just barbecue a good and.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
My phone rang out, said rang, And.
Speaker 10 (08:46):
I didn't even answer it because I was going back
to sleep, and it was the night before that.
Speaker 9 (08:53):
But that morning, yeah, I told Ron said no.
Speaker 10 (08:55):
I ain't seen him, but he didn't call me. That
My missus car and then Ron like, I'm gonna call
you back because Darren people was calling him while he
was on the phone with me, and Ron caught me
right back, and that's what he told me, that they
siound him.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
I got to the point and asked if he knew
who killed Darren.
Speaker 10 (09:16):
I personally feel like it's so sticky that it's hard
to decipher. Honestly, at one point in time, I had
a definitive as a.
Speaker 9 (09:28):
Now I just don't know, and that's just to be
totally honest with you.
Speaker 10 (09:33):
And I say that because, again, man, Darren wasn't a
one dimensional person. He had so much going on. He
had so much attention from so many different groups and
sectors of people with different viewpoints, and it's hard to decipher,
(09:53):
you know what I mean, Because as much as I
want to accredited to one thing, it's a real complex situation.
It was a kind of too sophisticated for one train
of thought, and then it was like a little mediocre
for another.
Speaker 9 (10:12):
So I can't even you know, however.
Speaker 10 (10:16):
He joins the list of a lot of soldiers and
revolutionary people, historic people that went before him.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
So tell me, how did you know Darren?
Speaker 14 (10:36):
I met Darren initially at a movement based type of thing.
Speaker 10 (10:39):
It was a.
Speaker 14 (10:40):
Concert that FLI Clan's opponent put on Cornel West cam
We were raising money for Mike Brown, but on the
way in I bumped into Bay was taking Machine ron
Gie and Darren Seals, and so he and I ended
up having a conversation, exchanging information, and then from that
point on I would just see him at a lot
of different activisty events. I think that the hip hop
and and social justice movements go hand in hand, especially
(11:03):
when it comes to black culture Latino culture.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
This is Tamor Dodd, better known by her rap name Bates,
as a woman in the Saint Louis rap scene. She
worked for years to get more attention in airtime for
female rappers on the local radio, and then joined in
the Rising Ferguson movement after the killing of Mike Brown Junior.
We talked about Darren's role in both of these worlds
(11:26):
and how his voice and platform seemed to make him
a target of surveillance by law enforcement.
Speaker 14 (11:32):
Sills was able to mobilize people fast, and a lot
of them with his mentality, which is very militant, but
which makes he's able to draw in other powerful people.
On top of it's getting mainstream coverage. He's laying on CNN,
He's laying on like MS and you see whichever one
it was, I can't remember. It got to the point
where Seals became a problem because he could attract a
lot of people who felt the same way he did.
(11:52):
And instead of him being like, let's just take out
take kids, let's protest, let's march, she was like really
ready to train people to combat against opposition. So I
think after that, once he started like his movement and
started meeting with people, I think that really probably grabbed
the ship out of them. This boy is mobilizing this
people think he's gonna do something. We gotta take him down.
(12:14):
During that time, it was just it was really rough
for us, and plus there was something unpresidented, like they
didn't know what to do but to treat us like
shit bacter seeing quin tail crow and all this other
stuff that they've done to us. Like if you know
anything about black history and how they're planning the mob
having killed that.
Speaker 9 (12:30):
This is real.
Speaker 14 (12:31):
Like it's not like like anyone that goes against the system,
Like they probably had a target on their heads to
be quite honest, I feel like that's the reason.
Speaker 9 (12:38):
Why he got.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
More after the break.
Speaker 4 (12:50):
Now back to the show.
Speaker 6 (12:54):
An argument where the argument that we're really low. You
know that he was killed during an argument, you know
what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
Do you have any can you give me any sense
of what the argument would have been over?
Speaker 7 (13:07):
Uh music?
Speaker 4 (13:08):
This is Shariff. Allen Sharif is the founder and owner
of Ragley, a website and music and media streaming app.
He's from Saint Louis and he knew Darren. Like Tef Poe,
Shariff believes Darren's murder was related to music. He also
believes he knew the specific motive.
Speaker 6 (13:26):
He had a meeting with rod Nation. But they feel
right that need words of the note and they feel
like he.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
Could do more.
Speaker 9 (13:35):
But he was showing to teeing him like Bro, I.
Speaker 6 (13:37):
Got a job at GM, I'm doing this, I'm doing
If they ain't want to hear it, I ain't gonna
say that on you want to say they group game bro,
But they had a group name that they went by
in shat Louis. And if you know who they was
and you know the group name, if they went back
with me, you know what I'm saying, but if you
also know and you know them, lose either guy kill
(13:57):
what a impresent for some other situation this life.
Speaker 4 (14:03):
If you don't know, Rock Nation is jay Z's record
label turned entertainment empire, Darren did meet one of their
A and R executives, and not just any executive, but
Lenny Santiago better known as Lenny s who had by
then spent twenty years with jay Z, had personally signed
DJ Khalin and others, and is a social media influencer
(14:24):
known for taking and posting some of the most intimate
photos of both jay Z and Beyonce. On August fourth,
twenty sixteen, Darren posted a photograph of himself standing with
Lennyes on his Facebook profile. Now, Sharif doesn't want to
say the name of the group of hip hop artists
that Darren managed and with whom Darren had that final argument,
(14:45):
but he doesn't have to. Not only did Bo Deane
tell us in episode one that the group Darren was
managing was called the Bottom Boys, it's also just easy
enough to find this out by reading Darren's Facebook page,
and according to Darren's Facebook post d tailing the Rock
Nation meeting, Lenny S had played eight of the Bottom
Boys songs and three of their music videos. Darren wrote
(15:07):
that Lenny responded well to the music and that he
provided good feedback. Further down in the post, Darren wrote
that quote, I got another week and a half before
I get the green light to fly to LA and
we take the next step. The Bottom Boys was a
group of three rappers who all linked up in Castle Point.
The members were Anthony Irvin, who went by the nickname
(15:28):
Keelo Lopez, Watson Simms who rapped as LP, and Ricky Smith,
who went by l R. They have several songs posted
to a SoundCloud page and several videos on YouTube. At
the beginning of the video for their song Can't Go,
you can see Darren driving in his jeep with a
young woman. It's likely this is one of the videos
(15:49):
that was played for Lenny S in that meeting. Here's
a brief clip of the song.
Speaker 10 (16:02):
We're Gonna Blow It, Were gonna blow it and we
gonna niggas who have fell.
Speaker 9 (16:06):
Out over host.
Speaker 7 (16:07):
No niggas who got back od for that.
Speaker 9 (16:09):
I can't go.
Speaker 15 (16:10):
I can't go, Even no niggas who'll make you for
your property's supposed to be your probably, but I can't go.
Speaker 9 (16:16):
I can't go.
Speaker 7 (16:17):
I can't go, and I.
Speaker 4 (16:18):
Can't go, and I can't go, and I can't go,
and I can't go, and I can't go.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
I was curious how realistic it would have been that
they were possibly gonna to sign Darren Seals or Bottom Boys.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
Or whether it was sort of like they just took
a meeting and Darren Bottom.
Speaker 9 (16:35):
Boys made more of it, you.
Speaker 6 (16:36):
Know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
Yeah, it sounds to me like they took a meeting
and they probably got favorable you know, responses in the meeting,
but that's not necessarily an indication that a deal is
guaranteed to happen. There's still a lot more process that
has to take place, you know, before an actual deal
is is uh put together. So I would say you're
(16:58):
right in your theory that it's probably more they had
a good meeting, they probably thought more of it than
what it was.
Speaker 4 (17:06):
This is Quay Sean Carter. He's the childhood friend of
Sean Carter aka jy Z, and he's the owner of
Q Global Entertainment, where he's worked with the Yin Yang Twins,
The Nappy Roots, PD Pablo, and Saint Louis Rapper Huey.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
From my experience just taking one meeting, if a record
label is that interested in you in the first meeting,
they won't let you leave. They'll they'll try to get
the deal done before you leave, you know. So the
fact that they had the meeting and left meant that
now the record company is going to go through their
due diligence process, which is typically to pass on your
(17:41):
project to the research department, who will go online and
start to research to find out, you.
Speaker 13 (17:46):
Know, what exactly do you have going on, you know,
how much influence you have on the marketplace, how much
the consumer following and buying into your brand awareness, and
then they would make a determination on you are you know,
qualified for them to want to make an offer or not.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
So that's my answer to that.
Speaker 4 (18:07):
Hoping to understand exactly what went down. When Darren went
to the offices of Rock Nation in New York City
to pitch the Bottom Boys, I asked Quay Sean, what
was the smartest way of going about getting in touch
with Lenny s.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
I would recommend just reaching out to a publicist, okay,
and letting the PR person reach out to Rock Nation's
PR department and to be a big at set of
meeting up. That would be the way to do it,
rather than trying to go through a homeboy or anything
like that. And then when you do you can always say, hey,
you know I spoke to quay Sean. He spoke very
highly of you, said you're a music guy. Those things
(18:42):
will help him to become even more eased at having
a conversation with you.
Speaker 4 (18:49):
Taking Quayshan's advice, we reached out to Rock Nation asking
for a conversation with Lenny s. We heard back from
the VP of Communications, Jana Fleischmann, but she insisted that
she would only speak with us off the record, which
was obviously frustrating. After that conversation with Jana, I sent
a follow up email. My email, crafted using quotes from
(19:10):
Darren's social media posts about his meeting with Lenny, basically
asked if Darren was correct that Lenny did hear eight
Bottom Boys songs and watched three of their videos. I
asked if there wouldn't have been some follow up by
Lenny or his assistant regarding a final decision by Rock
Nation about the Bottom Boys, but we never heard back.
Speaker 8 (19:31):
I met Darren Seals. I want to say two thousand
and nine. We actually made it in a halfway house.
Speaker 4 (19:37):
This is rapper and activist Tbow.
Speaker 7 (19:40):
I met him was one night, late night.
Speaker 8 (19:42):
I'm hearing the conversation and I could tell somebody is
not talking to somebody inside the dorn It's a phone conversation.
So I see him and he has a cell phone.
So I'm like, bro, how you get that in here?
He said, I'll show you tomorrow. I had a baby
on the way at the time, my first son, so
I wanted to stay in contact with the mother who
was my fiance at the time, and he showed me
how to get the phone and learn and establish our relationship.
Speaker 4 (20:04):
Darren was in that halfway house as part of the
condition of his probation stemming from a two thousand and
seven conviction for the distribution of cocaine. Well, how does
he end up doing work with bottom boys and how
does that affect the relationship?
Speaker 7 (20:17):
What was going on there?
Speaker 8 (20:19):
I think it became he started to see how how
political the Saint Louis music scene was, and he believed
in so much that people around him, and he saw
the road blocks the others that came before us were
put up for artists that wasn't in their circle or
they didn't vouched for and he he didn't really want
(20:41):
to be a part of it.
Speaker 7 (20:43):
So he just wanted to help others.
Speaker 8 (20:45):
And he met some people, you know from his neighborhood,
young guys that you know, they out, you know, running
the street, making them same mistakes that we made when
we was that age. But they got talent, and you know,
he see them and he just want to help them
get out of the situation that there is.
Speaker 7 (21:01):
He want to push them, so he get behind him.
Speaker 8 (21:03):
He really he stopped rapping really all together, you know,
so he wasn't even rapping with Tanking Roan g even
though they were still making music as Da d Boy wasn't,
you know, he wasn't making any music. So he get
the young guys, you know, he start pushing them as management.
And in regards to rapping hip hop, the industry will
extort you and take advantage of me if you don't
(21:26):
know the proper things. And there was certain things that
I was trying to explain to him that I didn't
want him to make the mistakes on in regards to
wasting time and money, for instance, you will get people
that are connected to a and RS or used to
be an RS that will tell you, oh, well, you know,
if you pay me this amount of money, I can
(21:46):
walk you in to have a meeting with the record label.
And when you're young, you make those mistakes that you're hungry.
You just want to get out the ghetto. You know
you got the talent you like, you know what, fuck it,
I'll pay this. I just want a chance. I want
to change my life. I want to get up the streets.
So I want to help my people get out the streets.
You will take those chances.
Speaker 6 (22:05):
Me.
Speaker 8 (22:05):
I was blessed to have some people around me at
a young age that educated me about how those scams operate.
Speaker 7 (22:12):
So for it was a particular situation the Darren.
Speaker 8 (22:16):
Was extremely excited about and he was supposed to have
a meeting with rock Nation for Bottom Boys up in
New York, and I tried to explain him. I said, look, bro,
if a record label wants you and they're interested in
speaking with you and doing business with you, first and foremost,
they're not gonna make you buy your own flights. They're
flying you out, they putting you in the hotel, they
feeding you. And it wasn't clicking for him. And his mind,
(22:39):
it's like, oh, bro, like you hating on the opportunity.
Now I'm trying to educate you. And I think he
gassed up the young men's to the point to where
they really thought they was gonna go out there and.
Speaker 7 (22:50):
Get a deal.
Speaker 8 (22:52):
They fly out to New York, they have a meeting allegedly,
and nothing ever happens from me. So I think his
relationship with them started to because he was saying that
they were going to do all these things, but they're
not really understanding the work, the connections, the money you
got to put behind.
Speaker 7 (23:10):
They not really understanding how this business work.
Speaker 8 (23:12):
It's not going to be an overnight thing, especially coming
from Saint Louis. It's damn there, like you're trying to
get struck by lightning on purpose.
Speaker 4 (23:19):
Sharif Allen said that he heard Darren was killed because
of an argument about music and that it had something
to do with the Bottom Boys and a possible record deal.
I asked two what he thought about.
Speaker 7 (23:30):
It when the situation occurred.
Speaker 8 (23:33):
I'm not gonna name any names, but I did get
a kite saying that something happened to d Boy. And
this was before someone close to him actually called and
let this information out. And then we see the post
from his girlfriend, and you know, I contact the people.
Speaker 7 (23:48):
That he was close with.
Speaker 8 (23:49):
You know, the confirmed situation was true, but how it happened,
It's only so many people that could have got inb
out that house. I was told that, you know, a
lady called his phone, but then it switched to saying,
you know, one of the guys from Bottom Boys called
his phone and invited him somewhere. You know, So the
(24:10):
girl that he was with, you know, she was saying,
you know, it was a girl that called him and
he went out, and then you know, other people started
to say that it was it was the guy from
you know, his rap group that called him. So it's
just so many different conflicting statements. So the minute it happened,
of course, you know, everybody ran with assumption, oh you know,
(24:31):
police killed them, Police killed him, and a lot of
us that was that was close to him, we started
to have conversations about these things, and I'm like, you
know what, the boy had a powerful voice, but his
voice alone wasn't a threat enough to the system for
them to murder him. There was so many it's so
(24:52):
many others that they could have got out the way
or they've been trying to get out the way.
Speaker 7 (24:58):
I I was, oh that this was street related. They
finally caught up with them.
Speaker 8 (25:06):
One thing about the streets, the streets are always gonna
tell you what took place. You may not have all
the details, but you're gonna hear, Okay, this is possibly
how this happened. And unfortunately, like I said, we all
got a past, we all got a history. When you
jump off the porch and you get involved in street activity,
there's two underlying details. When you sign that contract to
(25:30):
jump off the porch. One of the outcomes is death.
One of the outcomes is jail, and you get a
select few. By the grace of God or whatever you
know you believe in that you make it out unscathed,
which is rare, you know. So those of us who
lived their life, we understand. Do we like it, absolutely not,
(25:55):
but we understand that was one of the underlying clauses
that we signed up. But this is the thing, as
you said, with them watching and surveilling like they have been,
they would know exactly how that situation occurred. But the
thing is, at the end of the day, he's a
black man in Saint Louis. He was speaking out against
(26:15):
the system. They don't They don't give a fuck about
providing any type of justice for his family or the community.
Speaker 4 (26:21):
So when you say you were told that the murder
was street related, was it music and street related?
Speaker 9 (26:26):
And can you give me any sense of what you've heard.
Speaker 7 (26:29):
That that that?
Speaker 8 (26:30):
I can't because when it's that type of situation and
people are telling me those type of things, I don't
really want to know the details.
Speaker 7 (26:40):
And this and this is the thing I love.
Speaker 8 (26:44):
I love that we, like I said, we met two
thousand and nine, we established relationship.
Speaker 7 (26:49):
It was we was brothers.
Speaker 8 (26:52):
Towards the end, we butted heads a lot because d
Boy was extremely passionate and.
Speaker 7 (26:58):
Once he knew something, he knew, even if it was
the wrong thing to know.
Speaker 8 (27:03):
So whenever you tried to correct them on something, to
give him some information that was outside of where he
had his mindset, he would fight against that with all
his heart.
Speaker 4 (27:19):
If TBO knew the specifics about who killed Darren, like
Tank the Machine, he wasn't going to tell us. As
tef Po had said that before Darren's death, he'd been
running with some new and untrustworthy people. I figured I'd
ask TDBO about that and he told us there was
a man in Hands Up United, the Ferguson based outreach
group he volunteered with that they'd had to remove.
Speaker 8 (27:41):
He used to be a part of Hands of United,
but never wanted to do the work. He just wanted
the attention. He wanted to do the interviews, but he
never wanted to volunteer time. So once we let him
go from the organization, he lashed on a debut because
he saw the power in the voice that he had
social media wise, he had d boy around a.
Speaker 7 (28:02):
Lot of questionable people involved in the movement.
Speaker 8 (28:05):
A lot of questionable people, and I tried to warn
them about it, but towards the end it came out
and he started to separate itself. But like I was
saying in regards to the street situation, I don't think
music had anything to do with it at all at all,
Absolutely not. That was something that I've never heard And
(28:26):
if there's a room and that floating around, it's absolutely
not true.
Speaker 4 (28:30):
The people from the rap world who knew the streets
and who knew Darren Well seem to have heard and
seemed to believe different things about why he was killed
which makes it hard to know which direction to move
in to try to find his killer. Fortunately, though, there
was an eyewitness who gave his account more after the break.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
Now back to the show. If you recall from our
interview with Bodine in episode one, he mentioned that he
had a fuzzy memory of a news report with a
witness to Darren's killing. We found that what he was
referring to was an interview filmed by friends of Darren's,
Darnell Singleton and Amir Brandy, who had gone to the
(29:18):
crime scene immediately after hearing that Darren had been murdered.
After filming this interview, Amir formed an independent media company
called Real STL News. They were kind enough to share
that interview with us. Because the audio isn't the best,
we will reiterate what the witness says.
Speaker 11 (29:38):
Okay said Anna France smoking or whatever in Ayama Pardner
I heard, of course, so I'm like, let me see
what disease.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
The man who was a resident of the Ridgeview apartments
where Darren's body was found, had been sitting on his
front porch smoking when he heard a car with a
HEMI engine pull up came around.
Speaker 11 (30:00):
It was the jeep in front, it was a christ
like three hundred. When he hear me in behind it
and it was another silver Ford or a City or
something like like that. I couldn't really see because it
was dirt up on the third floor. The Chrystler was like,
it's like either silver.
Speaker 9 (30:13):
Or is great.
Speaker 11 (30:13):
I couldn't really tell the color surreal because it's dirt.
Speaker 9 (30:16):
Plus I was I thought I was chipping.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
The witness says there was a train of cars that
pulled into the parking lot. Darren's jeep was in front,
followed by what he thought was a Chrysler three hundred
with a Hemi engine, and in the rear a silver
Ford or Chevy. He wasn't exactly sure about the colors
because he was on the third floor and it was nighttime.
Speaker 15 (30:39):
So he can't even drive it because it was the state.
Speaker 11 (30:42):
I realized it the stake by the way it was
fucking sounding like he almost ran and ran into the
buses when any time he tried to pull off for
the cutoff because he's not putting it in a year,
I noticed on all the driver stick I'm like, oh man,
how you gonna steal a car?
Speaker 14 (30:53):
You know?
Speaker 11 (30:54):
And all the driver I thought it was just a stoke,
so when he parked it, he couldn't even park it
for real because it kept rolling like that.
Speaker 7 (31:01):
He can any part of the core.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
The witness recognized that whoever was driving the jeep was
struggling with the stick shift, and that the driver almost
accidentally drove into the bushes because of the driver's inability
to operate the stick shift. He presumed that the jeep
was stolen, but.
Speaker 11 (31:19):
The whole time I thought it was a stolencal dude
got out the Core with some white socks on his hands.
It was there was only one dude that got out.
Speaker 15 (31:25):
He was like, yeah, black and he.
Speaker 11 (31:27):
Had dreads to come and think about it.
Speaker 9 (31:30):
He had some socks on.
Speaker 11 (31:31):
His hand, and he wouldn't be big from where I
was sitting there. He let he's probably thought your side,
and he's like, he's about his size. I'm probably a
little bit shorter than.
Speaker 7 (31:42):
It really because I.
Speaker 11 (31:43):
Was on the third floor from what ould see and
looked at tall. Okay, he didn't.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
The witness goes on to repeat that he thought the
jeep was stolen because the man who got out of
the driver's seat once it was parked was wearing socks
on his hands. He described the man as black with
dreads and as not being very tall, he guesses perhaps
five foot six or seven.
Speaker 15 (32:07):
He got off the court and ran up to the
christ of three hundred and they pulled off. They went
back towards Riverview, and I thought they was gonna come
back and take the rings off of it, because you know,
I'm like, that's a jeep, Like they could coming late.
They like isa what I was thinking, But the whole time,
not knowing there was a biting in there.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
The witness explains that the driver of the jeep with
the socks on his hands got into the Chrysler three hundred,
and that car and the third vehicle, which he guessed
was a Chevy or Ford, both pulled back onto the
road and headed towards Riverview. Thinking they would have stolen
the rims from the jeep, he was confused that they
drove away and abandoned the vehicle, But what he said
(32:49):
next was the most shocking part of his interview.
Speaker 11 (32:53):
But a white boy came from really good way through
the woods, and I'm thinking he's gonna come try and
find him. I'm not really paying attention, and by the
time I turned away and look back. The whole cause
of flights like.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
The whole thing with The witness claims that after the
two other vehicles departed the parking lot, a white man
with a ponytail emerged from the tree line and approached
the jeep. He thought the man must have been out
there to buy crack, and after looking away for a
split second, he looked back and the jeep was engulfed
in flames. Speaking to Darnell and a mirror by phone,
(33:31):
they told us what they saw when they went to
the crime scene the day Darren died.
Speaker 5 (33:36):
I work in a laws so you know, I go
through crime scenes and process information from those scenes. But
to actually go to that scene and see fenkase scenes
that on that scene the door of his vehicle filled
being on that scene and not being processed. We took
(33:58):
pictures of all of it stuff on that date. They
didn't investigate that case.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
Darnell quickly turned to talking about the witnessed.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
Interviewed the eye with being a mirror that after somebody
exited that christ for three hundred and got into another
car and took off. He said, a white boy came
from out of the woods. You remember that a mirror.
Speaker 5 (34:22):
He said, a long longher A guy would loan her
ad a ponytail.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
He said, a white boy came from out of the woods.
Next thing he know, the car was on.
Speaker 13 (34:32):
He said.
Speaker 5 (34:32):
He looked away for a second and the flames caught
his attention.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Now get this ray connect me. The next day that
me and Amir went out there, Amir had the drone
up in the air. We see this white guy pull
up in the pickup truck whil Amir's got the drone
in the air and it was so curious that he
(34:57):
walked over to where the door was. He was just
kind of looking around through He was looking for some
in particular. Yeah, he was looking for something. And I
turned to a mirror and I said, record that. We
need to record that. Get his license plate and everything.
So if Mayor Pools was rolled over, the guy instruct
and records this.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
Reviewing the drone video they shot, there's an older looking
white man driving a dark colored forward pickup truck with
a camper shell. A few activists approached the driver's side
window to speak with him, and no, he doesn't appear
to have a ponytail.
Speaker 5 (35:33):
Saint Louis County Homicide they actually came to the law
office a sergeant and a lieutenant, which I found to
be quite strange that a sergeant and a lieutenant would
be you know, usually that's not an assignment for a
sergeant and a lieutenant. They came down, they came, came
over to the office, sat down and talked, talked to
me for a few minutes in reference to the videotape
(35:55):
and the content, and I gave him. I gave them
a copy of that. Never heard any anything else from dam.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
If the witness from the Ridge View apartments is to
be believed, Darren was not killed at the apartment complex
where his body was found because the witness never heard
any gunshots. If the witness is to be believed, there
are at least three people involved in Darren's murder, and
possibly a fourth the drivers of the three vehicles and
(36:32):
the mysterious white man who emerged from the shrubs who
may have been the one who set Darren's jeep on fire.
After the fact, we wanted to begin certifying these details,
and we knew the best way to do that was
to visit the scene of the crime ourselves. That's next time,
and after the uprising.
Speaker 4 (36:56):
After the uprising as a production of Double Asterisk and
iHeart in association with True Stories. Season two was written, reported,
and produced by Maria Chappelle, Nadal, John Duffy, Mallory Kenoy,
and Renovashlski. Executive producers are Nikki Atour and Lindsay Hoffman
for iHeart Podcasts, John Duffy and Renoviashewski for Double Asterisk,
(37:17):
David Cassidy and Ruth Baka for True Stories. Directed by
John Duffy and Renoviashlsky. Theme song and score by Zachary Walter.
Sound engineering and mixed by John Autry. Fact checking by
Muffin Humes. Marketing by Alison Canter, Fair Use legal by
Peter Yazzi and Brandon Butler. Legal by Holly Decan for
iHeart Podcasts and Keith Sklarr for Double Asterisk Missouri Sunshine
(37:41):
Legal by David Rowland. Show logo by iHeart Podcasts using
a photo by Attillo Dagostino. Our interns were Hannah Madura
and Rosemary Fiery. Website by Stephanie Clark. Recorded at David
Weber's Airtime Studios in Bloomington, Indiana. We want to acknowledge
additional investigation that became part of This podcast was conducted
(38:03):
by Detective Adams in the Saint Louis County Police and
the FBI, who did not participate in this podcast, and
by a Mere Brandy Mosey, Secret and Darnell Singleton. If
you like our work, check out our other podcasts. You
can find us at double asteriskmedia dot com and on Twitter, Instagram,
and Facebook. Support us on Patreon. If you're enjoying the show,
(38:25):
leave us a rating and review on your favorite podcast app.
Thank you to Jamie Dennis, Danny Gonzalez, Jonathan Hartwig, Bethan Macalouso,
Matt McDonough, Melissa McKinnes, Ryan Mears, Tony and Valovyshlski and
the family and loved ones of Darren Seals, Bottom Boys
and Doa. Tracks used via fair use, So was the
(38:45):
news reporting. Archival copyright twenty twenty four Double Asteriskink
Hosts And Creators
Ray Nowosielski
Maria Chappelle-Nadal
John Duffy
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Daniel Jeremiah of Move the Sticks and Gregg Rosenthal of NFL Daily join forces to break down every team's needs this offseason.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.