June 11, 2024 • 39 mins
Before her sudden passing in 2023, Darren Seals’ mother Bonnie Otis sat down over several months for roughly 30 hours of conversations with this podcast. It becomes apparent that she was a central hub of sorts to whom tipsters turned. Using these varied and often conflicting accounts, our investigators piece together scenarios for Darren’s final night.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Previously on After the Uprising Good.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
I'm at nineteen forty Diamond Drive and it's a car
on fire in my working life.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Seals was found shot inside a burning car in Riverview
on Diamond Drive.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
I do know that there is a lot of sentiment
in the community that they want justice, they want the truth.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
You know, you still got a life that has a tab.
Speaker 4 (00:26):
On it from your past endeavors. You know what I'm saying.
I think he got set up out of people he
was in the fucking music situation with.
Speaker 5 (00:34):
I ain't never the same brusway.
Speaker 4 (00:36):
It's like he wanted on.
Speaker 6 (00:38):
He said, a white boy came from out of the woods.
He said, a guy would loan herd a ponytail.
Speaker 7 (00:44):
A white boy everything he knows.
Speaker 4 (00:46):
A car was got.
Speaker 8 (00:58):
What you're looking for is the aftermath of the grand
jury deciding not to indict office.
Speaker 4 (01:07):
Nine year old Darren Seals was murdered before his killer
set his car on fire.
Speaker 8 (01:13):
Once they put out the flames, they discovered Seal's body
inside with a gunshop.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
You want a gun on me?
Speaker 9 (01:22):
Am?
Speaker 1 (01:22):
I am, I whats your other brothers focus of PD?
Speaker 8 (01:24):
Grab you by my heart, slam me out the car.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
He said, you might want you might want to pick
your enemies better. This is after the Uprising, season two,
the murder of Darren Seals.
Speaker 10 (01:48):
Did you ever receive the report from the medical of
the Salmoner's office.
Speaker 9 (01:53):
I have what they put on the death certificate.
Speaker 10 (01:58):
Yep.
Speaker 9 (01:58):
I wouldn't got the birtificate certificate. But no, I didn't
talk to him all of them.
Speaker 10 (02:04):
And you don't have any documentation from the medical examiner's office.
Speaker 9 (02:09):
Okay, do you? I asked to see I asked to
see my son's body and they said no. Wen taught me,
and you liked that. He said he did not see
his face. I want to see my son's face. And
he said, man, we can't let you see his face
because he don't have a face. He said, he's like
(02:31):
a skeleton and he's completely burning.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
This is Darren Seal's mother, Mary Otis, who goes by
the name Bonnie. Over the course of several months, we
had many many conversations with Bonnie, some in which I
sat with her in her living room for four or
five hours at a time. Others were over the phone
when she would unexpectedly call to talk about this or that,
(03:00):
and we would have to quickly activate a call recording
app from the outset, we will report that sadly, Bonnie
died in August of twenty twenty three. A very religious woman,
Bonnie suffered from a handful of physical ailments. She needed
dialysis treatment for her kidneys three times a week. She
(03:23):
also had oxygen tanks to assist her breathing. Despite these ailments,
Bonnie wasn't a frail woman. To look at her then
in frame, she carried herself in a proud way, always
well dressed and standing up straight, with her Louis Vauton
purse on her arm and her matching head rep From
(03:45):
a young age, Bonnie lived a very hard life, marred
by intent, childhood, abuse, and poverty. Darren's father spent a
lot of time in jail, so Bonnie raised Darren, who
you'll hear her refer to as man men, alongside his
older sister LaToya and his younger brother Byron. With their
(04:08):
father not around, Darren looked out for his younger brother,
and both boys felt exceedingly protective of Bonnie.
Speaker 9 (04:17):
Him and Darren was together in this truck and he said,
promise me, if I leave first, you promised to take
her on mom And he said I will say, okay,
I'll will, and man May said see him too. If
you leave first, I promise I'm gonna take her a mom.
So whichever one of them went first, there was the
(04:39):
Bonnie hand.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
It was very important for us to get to know
Bonnie for several reasons, one of which was because in
twenty sixteen, when Darren died, he was still very close
to his mother and spoke to her regularly, including by
phone only hours before his death. We thought Bonnie would
be key to he getting a sense of what Darren
(05:01):
was up to right before he was murdered. When we
started our interviews, COVID was just winding down, so Bodie
had spent a lot of time in isolation. Because she
was so grateful to be connecting again in person with people,
live people, she would jump from topic to topic and
(05:22):
we would have to keep up with her. Here's an
example where I was asking about Darren and his girlfriend
Naomi and where they lived.
Speaker 9 (05:32):
Because he moved from my house to her apartment and
then he wanted to move back here. And She's trying
to talk to me like I'm his friend, like I
ain't his mama, Like basically, like she really don't want
me to let my son come back home. I was
like this, your was lost some mind. So I suppose
I lock my door on my son and he and
(05:54):
her in Sprint store. They videotape all it, even spring death.
How I know it didn't have none to do with
no kids. It didn't have not a do with no well.
I mean, you know those are the young guys and
had this was bigger than it. Anytime Sprint involved in
doing un the cover stuff, why not want them?
Speaker 10 (06:16):
I don't understand what you're talking about.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Listening to Bonnie, it could be a puzzle. We weren't
always sure what she was talking about. She put things
in her own order that we would have to work
to iron out later, but in doing so we learned
a lot. For one, she would often reference some investigative
reporter who had contacted her, who seemingly offered his services
(06:42):
to help her find out what had happened to Darren.
She wouldn't tell us his name.
Speaker 6 (06:47):
Though, investigator the one that I was dealing with. He's
a reporter. He truly noticed story, so be but he
can't even do nothing with it.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
What about introducing us? Maybe you could float it to
this investigator to see if he wanted to do something,
maybe we'd work with this investigator and the stuff that
he can turn up helps your case. The stuff we
turn up can help your case. We put out a podcast,
he puts out articles at the same time. You know,
it's a thought, but you know what.
Speaker 6 (07:13):
To be honest, he came to me because I had
so much information that helped him not to even have
to work forward. Because he was asking me to do
this and do this, and I say, oh, okay, I
already got this.
Speaker 4 (07:27):
Yeah, But I mean, isn't the goal to get new
information and get as close as possible to proving all
the things that need proven here? So I mean, so
if you make it a little easier for him by
providing things to let him do what he does and
get that to the next step and provide you with
more information, then you know what's the problem there.
Speaker 6 (07:47):
I gave him some information and you know, you're sending
me pictures asking me who this person is and who
that person is. And but he was more like Anziah
heard a great story. I mean, he was real smart
with it, but really can't afford to really do the
things that he needs to do.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
When Bonnie says the reporter was like Isaiah. She's referring
to Isaiah Washington, the actor from Grey's Anatomy who apparently
also approached Bonnie and tried to get a movie project
off the ground with her, which eventually fizzled. In fact,
when Bonnie died, Isaiah Washington posted on his Facebook page quote,
I just found out that my dear friend Mary Bonnie
(08:30):
Otis is gone. He said he wanted to share with
her that he'd finally found a serious investor who wanted
to tell her story, and that for seven years he
had tried to get her story told. Apparently that's all true.
Speaker 6 (08:43):
That's it, Isaiah.
Speaker 9 (08:44):
If you can't find his story, yes somebody will can.
Speaker 6 (08:49):
Basically, he was being a middle meast. He's slicing and
dice in a pine. A pine need to heat. Here's
the thing. I didn't want nobody to think that I
can be Nikkel and dons I'll say.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
Donnie believed her story was big, Hollywood big, and at
times she suggested a podcast was too small to contain
everything about her and Darren. But our primary concern was
just finding out what had happened to Darren and sharing
that information with the world. And we would be frustrated
by Bonnie when that didn't seem to be a priority
for her, like this instance, when we asked her about
(09:22):
the medical Examiner's report on Darren's death. We had been
refused to copy by the Medical Examiner's office and we
wanted Bonnie to help us get it.
Speaker 10 (09:30):
So you've never seen the medical Examiner's report ever?
Speaker 9 (09:35):
No, I have some kind of foul or some kind
of rakers so that they investigator send me.
Speaker 10 (09:44):
That you don't mention their name.
Speaker 9 (09:47):
Yeah, whatever he sent me, I wouldn't look at it.
I'm gonna look at it one day, but I'm don't
afford it to us. Well, I'm a I have to
look at a person. See. I'm gonna put it this
a way. I might, but I don't know.
Speaker 10 (10:03):
I got a would you allow us to write a
letter on your behalf and you send it to the
medical examiner to get a copy of the medical record
and then share it with us.
Speaker 9 (10:19):
But I think this one me and him just went through.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Bonnie eventually showed us this email from the investigative reporter
he had sent her instructions on how she could ask
the medical examiner for Darren's autopsy report, but she had
never opened that email. When she showed it to us,
we could see that it had not been read. Though
Bonnie had her own way of telling a story, she
(10:44):
had a mind like a steel trap. After reviewing the
many hours of conversations we'd recorded with her, we were
able to find that she'd given us a lot of
interesting information about Darren's life. For instance, one day, when
she called Ray from her chair at the dialysis center,
(11:04):
she started telling a story about Darren as a young man.
Speaker 6 (11:08):
How they first met.
Speaker 7 (11:09):
We stayed on Green Valley. I always took my kids
to church, and if I even saw my son would
like a red score or something like that, like in
his pocket, he'll slinking out the house, but he'll forget
to take it out of his pocket. Why my family
got out, I said, what is that? Because you ain't
gonna be in no gangs.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
When Bonnie said that Darren was keeping a red scarf
in his pocket, she's referring to his activity with a
local gang, something she didn't approve of. And in talking
about the local gang rivalries, she brings up someone named Jaybird.
Speaker 7 (11:42):
Jaybird with calcil point, and my son was over with
Green Valley, so Green Valley and Calcilporne. Jaybird used to
boss everybody in his neighborhood in Calciforne. SoJ hears my
son was a really good bombing. They said, I'm somebody
that she can be and he was like cool. They said,
(12:04):
this dude looked this over in Council Point and so
he wins. He goes over in Council Point to meet Jaybird,
you know, put him in a box. You know, not
though kill each other. But so they hate the fight
because Jabird was the best fight in Calcifornia and Darren
was the best fighter in Green Valley. Said they wanted
him to come together and see who wins. So they
(12:27):
fought after they got tough fighting because of both of
them were so tough, they became be three.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
Jaybird, You'll remember, was mentioned by Tef Poe back in
episode two. Teff told us that he heard that someone
named Jaybird had been incarcerated and Darren had promised to
help him with something during that stretch, but Darren didn't
follow through. According to Bonnie, after a boxing match that
came to a draw, Darren and jay Bird became best friends.
(12:55):
She told us she would pick Jabird up and drive
him and Darren to school football games, where they would
fight with other boys. She also told us that when
they were older, jay Bird was shot at while he
and Darren were at a barber shop.
Speaker 6 (13:08):
So, my son and Jabers was at a barber shop.
My son in there in the cheers, Jaber on the front,
having some other people.
Speaker 7 (13:19):
So being this car drying down the street, and when
this car designs down the street and he just thole shooting,
and that he was shooting big was so a ducking
and he's still a running.
Speaker 4 (13:32):
Seen is this Paul or after Darren gets shot in
twenty thirteen?
Speaker 7 (13:37):
Yeah, this is before?
Speaker 6 (13:39):
Thank you?
Speaker 4 (13:39):
So sure?
Speaker 6 (13:40):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (13:41):
Remembering what tef Po told us, we figured we would
ask Bonnie if she knew anything about her responsibility. Darren
may have had to take care of something for jay
Bird while he was incarcerated.
Speaker 4 (13:52):
Hadn't jay Bird gone to jail in twenty sixteen and
wasn't Darren helping him out on the outside? Do you
know what I mean about that?
Speaker 7 (14:00):
Darren?
Speaker 6 (14:01):
No, Darren won't happened them out. Darren makes up that
Darren was in a movie at all.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Bonnie seems to think Darren wasn't doing anything for Jaybird
in that timeframe. Maybe he was and she just didn't
know about it. Maybe this is consistent with what Tef
Poe heard, that Darren wasn't living up to a commitment
he'd made. It's hard to say more with Bonnie after
the break. Now back to the show. Not only was
(14:39):
Bonnie one of the last people to speak with Darren,
but after his death, it seems as though Bonnie became
a central hub that people turned to to provide clues
and tips about what had happened to him. Some of
it is verifiable and some of it contradictory. Now that
Bonnie is gone, what she told us will remain the
only collection of this information and sorting through it, we
(15:03):
did our best to build a picture of Darren's last
day alive. It was September fifth, twenty sixteen, Labor.
Speaker 4 (15:10):
Day, the last call between Byron and Darren. Like what
did Darren in part generally speaking to Byron, like where
was he when he was one? Nay, we're having that call,
and what was the nature of the conversation.
Speaker 7 (15:23):
He was at home with me and they would just having,
you know, just.
Speaker 6 (15:28):
A regular brother conversation.
Speaker 7 (15:30):
He didn't sound like he was in no danger, you know,
like anything bad.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
We asked Byron if he remembered that call.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
The last phone calling I have my brother was I
had talked somewhere on the time while he was out,
and he was supposed to take me to the mall
and go grab some new shoes and just chop it
up and go out to eat and just talk and
you know, just have our regular today. And his last
words was I love you, saying for me to him.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
At the time, Darren was living in his own apartment
near Ferguson, and according to Bonnie, Darren's girlfriend, Naomi, frequently
stayed with him, though she did not have her own key. Apparently,
many of Darren's friends were at a Labor Day barbecue,
but Darren chose not to attend. Instead, he and Naomi
spent that afternoon at his grandmother's house.
Speaker 4 (16:23):
Well, when was the last time you ever spoke with
or saw Darren?
Speaker 7 (16:28):
He went to the grocery store for my mom and
usually on a holidays she always cook, so human Naomi
went to the store. Why they was at the store,
he had ass Naom did some taco bowls and made
some concos. I always told my folks to house, but
that's what I would call them. Pah. She bought some chicawings.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
She covered a lot of ground there, but it breaks
down to this. Darren went to the store to buy
food for his grandmother. Naomi was with him, and they
bought ingredients for a taco bolt dinner they were going
to prepare for themselves. Bonnie called Darren to tell him
that if he wanted, he could come eat grilled chicken
at her sister's place.
Speaker 7 (17:08):
After talking to me, then he ended up on the
phone with Kelo and she told me the whole conversation.
She listened to everything he pleased.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
Bonnie is telling us something. Naomi later told her that
after he'd hung up with his mother, Darren had ended
up on the phone with Kelo. Kelo, if you recall
from episode three, was one of the members of the
rap group Darren was managing at the time, the Bottom Boys.
Bonnie is saying that Naomi listened to Darren's whole conversation
with Keilo.
Speaker 6 (17:38):
Some my guyn was dark and he was talking about
doing the video. He gave him a point. He said, no, man,
he chose me too much.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
According to what Bonnie says, Naomi told her Darren's phone
call with Kilo was about a white music video maker
that Keilo wanted to use, but Darren was saying the
price this director quoted was too high and that he
would come right over to discuss the matter. This seems
to match up well with what we were told by
Sharif Allen that Darren's death revolved around an argument over
(18:09):
something music related.
Speaker 6 (18:11):
He was like, now, because he's telling me, I got, y'all,
don't worry about anything, and he was telling the truth,
and he said he got because he's just way known
a settlement. He settled for fifty five thousand dollars and
he had borret some money from his lawyers to take
them out of Penny.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
It turns out Darren sued the apartment complex where he
had been shot six times back in twenty thirteen, and
he was awarded a large settlement. Bonnie is saying here
that Darren was telling Kilo not to worry about money,
and that he planned to use what he borrowed from
his lawyer against his incoming settlement to take the Bottom
Boys members out of town to meet with record executives.
Speaker 7 (18:50):
After that, he didn't hang up the phone with Kiyo.
Speaker 6 (18:54):
He just dropped her host and he said, I'll be
right back.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
So, according to Bonnie's memory of what Naomi told her,
Darren was still on the phone with Kilo when he
dropped her off at his apartment, where she began cooking dinner,
and Darren said he would be right back. This would
have been, according to Bonnie's memory of the story, around
six pm.
Speaker 4 (19:14):
Here's what I'm trying to figure out is the first
phone call regarding the jeep on fire is like one
forty five am. But my question would be if he
was telling Naomi, I'll be right back and leaves with
her ready to make him dinner, so that would seem
to be that he would think that he could get
back home and possibly eat dinner and make the forty
(19:35):
minute trip to GM in time for his eleven PM ship.
Speaker 7 (19:37):
He didn't even leave that late. He left my mom pouse,
and when he left my mom pouse he called me.
And here's the thing, it was still real early, so
he should have went down or made it back to
eat and take a nap. This was like about five
or six o'clock. He would have had time to eat,
(20:00):
take now at least get them with life a little
power now a couple hours bleeps and if do.
Speaker 4 (20:05):
You'll make it to one the timeline I always placed
the timeline much later in the night, like he gets
called over to some late night party or whoever he
you know, whoever tells him to meet whatever the actual
story is, right, whatever happened to him. If he stops
updating people and Naomi never got another update, then like
that sounds like there's this huge gap of time from what,
let's say, six pm until the jeep is reported on
(20:28):
fire at like that was my question.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
This gap in time, if Bonnie's memory is correct, is
roughly seven hours between when Darren is talking to Kilo
on the phone in the car next to Naomi and
when he is ultimately found in his burning jeep early
the next morning. Bonnie had told us that Darren was
supposed to be at work that night at the GM
plan at eleven PM, but reading at social media, we
(20:54):
later learned that he had switched to a morning shift.
We asked Byron what he remembered about.
Speaker 11 (20:59):
This, Patty had a shift, When did that shift tend to.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Start early in the morning? Usually, like because at the
time when I was staying with him, he would go
to work from maybe I think from seven, so like
some close around to the evening.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
If Darren didn't have to work that night, he wouldn't
necessarily have had to rush back from his meeting with
Kilo in order to have time to eat his dinner
and then make the forty minute drive to the GM plant.
But we still thought it would be odd or at
least rude for him to tell Naomi that she should
start preparing dinner and that he'd be right back, and
(21:37):
then to just ditcher. Darren's final social media post was
made on Facebook at six twenty six pm. It's a
photo of the words Bottom Boys spray painted on a wall.
Darren tagged one person with the post Bottom Boys member
Ricky Smith aka Little Ricky or LR. We don't know
(21:59):
what he posted this photo because he was with l R,
but it raises the question of whether Darren had gone
to meet not only Kilo but the rest of the
Bottom Boys, which wouldn't be strange if they were discussing
their next music video as far as the timeline of
events goes, Bunny said at some point in the evening,
(22:21):
Darren had butt dialed her. She said when she answered,
she could hear talking and music, but that Darren couldn't
hear her calling out to him.
Speaker 7 (22:30):
He kept when he was talking, you could hear music,
and I kept saying, may I'm not feel like like
three times your mom said.
Speaker 5 (22:42):
That Darren but dialed there a few times that evening.
Did she describe that with you?
Speaker 11 (22:48):
Yeah?
Speaker 10 (22:48):
She did.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
She had told me he book called I think but
twice Toothy Tom.
Speaker 11 (22:54):
Do you happen to know if those butt dials happened
after that last call that you had with him or before.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
I think it was after that.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
Byron guess Darren had spoken to him around eight thirty
or nine, so these butt dials would have come after that.
But this information is very tenuous, as we're asking Byron
to remember phone calls that happened eight years earlier when
he'd only been fourteen years old. So take it or
leave it. What does seem reliable is that Darren left
(23:23):
his apartment to go meet Kilo to talk about something
Bottom Boys related. The supposed white music video director's story
is hard to tease out. All of the Bottom Boys
videos up to that point had been made by a
black director whose company was called More or Less Media.
It's tempting to try to connect disparate facts and presume
(23:45):
this white music video maker was not only real, but
that he was the man with the ponytail seen by
the Ridgeview witness. But we have to remember this was
just a story supposedly told by Kilo to Darren, overheard
by Naomi, who passed it to Bonnie. But Bonnie believed
the white guy was real and that he was involved
(24:07):
in Darren's death.
Speaker 10 (24:09):
To her, the idea that.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
Any of the Bottom Boys could have been in on
it made no sense because again, her understanding was that
Darren was about to use his own money to bring
the whole group to Atlanta to possibly get.
Speaker 6 (24:23):
Signed, and he did out the money, and it was
the means of all you said, I he sposed to
take him to Alana. So they would have wanted to
go to Atlanta and become souls and get signed, they
wouldn't have wanted to be with him.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
So let's say Darren does go to meet Kilo and
maybe other members of the Bottom Boys. Where did that
meeting happen? We told Bonnie what we'd heard about the
possibility of Darren having been killed on Gamble Street, and
to our surprise, she heard the same thing.
Speaker 10 (24:58):
Yes, several people who say gamb is the street where
Garrett was.
Speaker 9 (25:01):
Actually because I got a phone call from the guy,
ain't says now. He just called me and just said
when my son got murdered.
Speaker 5 (25:10):
It and he didn't leave his name.
Speaker 9 (25:14):
He didn't. He didn't like when he was first talking
to me, he didn't.
Speaker 10 (25:19):
But no, it wasn't.
Speaker 9 (25:22):
No, he just told me that your son died on
Gamble over by, close by the Gamble Wolves Center. That's
all we see it.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
But like we said, Bunny was getting a lot of
weird tips and clues, some of which may have been
intentionally wrong in order to poison the well in case
she was sharing information with police.
Speaker 6 (25:48):
Somebody said they was arguing in a truck and they
was on Diamond right a fause from the store. Write
with those apartments that not the apartments work truck was
that the one of offa Chambers. They was wiped up
on that SI and they said when they got their
head used the don't but he got real heated. They
got relapped. I say, man, that's a lot at.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
The intersection of Chambers and Diamond where this heated argument
inside Darren's jeep supposedly occurred. There's a convenience store called
the Rock of Food Mart. This intersection is less than
a mile north of the ridge View apartments where Darren's
jeep and body were ultimately found. But Bonnie doesn't believe
(26:30):
this particular story.
Speaker 7 (26:32):
Why I said, that's a lot.
Speaker 6 (26:34):
It didn't happen one day, because what was the white
guy that's supposed to he food the video?
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Since the mystery white music video maker wasn't described as
having been present in this scenario, Bonnie threw it out
whole cloth more after the break. Now back to the show.
Speaker 9 (27:02):
The truck melted to the ground to work a little
bit that was left or the truck. The fire department
used some stuff and it was like white phone is
like stuff to put it out.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Police came to Bonnie's home the morning Darren's car was
discovered to deliver the news that Darren was dead. She
made her way to the Ridgeview apartments, where she walked
the crime scene and spoke to people in the gathering crowd.
Looking at the remaining foam that had been used to
douse the fire from the night before, she noticed something.
Speaker 9 (27:36):
When I got there and I seen the door and
all that ashy stuff and all that white phone stuff.
It was three shiny bullets. It looked like somebody took
three brand new bullets and just laid them on the ground,
laid them brighten the pound, and they were still shining
on top.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
We thought it would be weird that what appeared to
be new bullets would be laying on top of the
fire retardant foam. At that point, anyone who wanted could
roam about the crime scene, so evidence could not only
be taken, but false evidence could have been added. This
point is highlighted by what Bonnie says was done with
(28:17):
the door of Darren's jeep, which had come disconnected from
the body of the vehicle and had been left behind
by the towing company.
Speaker 9 (28:26):
Naomi got the door off the ground, and she still writing.
She wrote her name up there hers, you know, wrote
some on the wild man man and everybody was dying
in the door. You know, the name's going all the
way there.
Speaker 10 (28:43):
Did Naomi take anything from the premises of the burning car?
Speaker 6 (28:48):
Yah?
Speaker 9 (28:49):
Yeah, they watched her.
Speaker 7 (28:51):
Everybody watched her.
Speaker 9 (28:53):
She took the door with all the thigmas is on it.
She put that in the car. I always thought I'm
weird about her too, because that is am I mean,
was he going.
Speaker 6 (29:03):
To marry her?
Speaker 9 (29:05):
He said, no, Mom, I believes she worked for the Faith.
Speaker 6 (29:08):
He said.
Speaker 9 (29:09):
I said, why do you say that? He said, because
she followed me if you want to go and then
and you know, as I kept watching out and seeing
how she act toward him, I said, it's only she
working for somebody, and I believe it's to this day,
I really supper believe it now.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
We didn't know what to make of the statement from
Bonnie that Darren supposedly made telling her that he believed
Naomi worked for the FEDS. It would raise all kinds
of questions about why Darren would be with her if
he believed this to be the case. The first instance
we can find of Naomi and Darren's social media is
(29:47):
from the spring of twenty sixteen, a little over three
months before his murder, when he traveled with her to
a wedding in Atlanta where he was her date. We
asked Byron about Naomi.
Speaker 5 (30:00):
Did you ever hear your mom and Darren talk about Naomi?
Speaker 2 (30:08):
Yeah, my mom used to ask all the time. Of course,
any other mother would ask, you know, how to treating you,
how you guys relationship is going?
Speaker 5 (30:16):
Did Darren ever share with you some concerns that he
had about Naomi.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
Yeah, basically like who was she working with?
Speaker 11 (30:24):
You know, the different things, like meaning that she was
working potentially with like the cops. Yeah, yeah, Like why
would you keep dating someone that you suspected?
Speaker 6 (30:36):
Yeah?
Speaker 11 (30:37):
Do you know?
Speaker 9 (30:38):
Not sure?
Speaker 6 (30:40):
Was he in love?
Speaker 2 (30:41):
Honestly he showed it in a way, but it was
like always like in the bag of his head. It
was like, you know, it was something that he just
felt like it was summer.
Speaker 10 (30:52):
Right.
Speaker 11 (30:53):
Do you happen to know what became of her? I
mean I haven't been in contact with her.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
I mean I see her on Facebook, you know, take
a different trips and everything.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
We reached out to Naomi, and when we finally got
in touch with her, she decided against doing an on
the record interview. We never saw any evidence that she
was working for the FEDS, and it seems highly unlikely
that she was an informant sent to date Darren and
to report on him. It's weird too that if Bonnie
(31:25):
believed that she was, why she would believe anything Naomi
told her about Darren's last night. The whole Kilo phone
call in White music video maker that Bonnie seems to
fully believe in that came from Naomi.
Speaker 9 (31:39):
One guy as Kilo. The he said during look, he
said no man, I said no. He said, well you
what was the last one to see him? And he
said man. He said, Darren dropped me off and then
he went over with some cheeck house Again.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
This is Bonnie recounting something she heard the morning of
Darren's death in the parking lot at the Ridgeview Apartments.
People were flooding the scene, including members of the Bottom Boys,
and in the ensuing chatter, it came out that Kelo
had been with Darren the night before, but Keilo said
(32:16):
that Darren had parted ways with him and gone to
see a girl. In episode two, Tef Poe said this
was something he knew Darren to do, to tell his
girlfriend that he had business to attend to and then
to use that time to go hook up with other women.
We don't know if Bonnie believed this story about Darren
(32:37):
sneaking off after his meeting with Kelo, but she did
insist that Kilo wasn't his killer, even if he did
wittingly or not play a role in getting Darren out
of the house that night.
Speaker 9 (32:51):
The way I'm looking at it now, I feel like
it was a settle one thing I knowing not to anybody.
Kelo did not kill my son. He got him on
the house and he the one was dealing with the
white guy. They he claimed that was gonna help with
the video. But forys killing him. No, no, no, he
didn't do that. He didn't do that at all. So
(33:13):
because he couldn't drive a stick ship, So who drove
My question is who drove the stick shift from Gamble
all the way to die because this is what I
looked at from Gamble Street. All of you come through
Naja Breeze, come to the county, you would burn that
clutch out.
Speaker 10 (33:34):
So in our investigation that we have found the person
who was driving it up the hill from Riverview.
Speaker 8 (33:43):
Did not know how to drive a siction. So what
we are told that that witness he actually saw. Yeah,
that person was not able.
Speaker 10 (33:55):
Whoever it was did not know how to drive.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
Us finally acknowledge what the rich few witness said about
whoever drove Darren's jeep into the parking lot that night
not knowing how to operate a stick shift, And we
wondered if maybe she wasn't trying to drop a hint
about Keilo without outright telling us she was suspicious of him,
as a way to put us on his trail without
actually stitching. But then she said this, as we're trying.
Speaker 10 (34:21):
To investigate this with you and find it like who
the murder could have been.
Speaker 9 (34:28):
But I'm not gonna let nothing of nobody change my
mind because I already know who did it. The FBI
did this to myself. I mean that nine hundred sheet records,
well one of them playing they've been following him for months.
Why are you following him? They telled you, and he
(34:51):
said they wouldn't do no. But falling behind him, just
falling behind you. Know, that's enough proof right there.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
The nine hundred page record that Bonnie is referring to
is an FBI report that was obtained through a Freedom
of Information Act request made by Saint Louis based activist
and photographer James Cooper, who didn't want to be interviewed.
Speaker 9 (35:14):
For the show.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
It took two years for the FBI to furnish the
documents to Cooper, and of the nine hundred total pages supplied,
about eight hundred and sixty of them are fully redacted.
The remaining pages contain partial redactions, but what is available
to be read makes clear that Darren was being actively
surveilled by the FBI starting in March of twenty sixteen,
(35:40):
all the way up until the time of his death.
Speaker 6 (35:44):
My son always tell me that months, don't you he said,
anything happens to me, you think that they don't kill him?
Not to please stop playing it, he speaking, because he's
an alms. They follow me every wando, he said, every wando.
You say, my mom tells you say, they don't kill them,
He say, you But if they do, he said, don't
you tail? But they come to nothing different.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
Does this report, which was only made public in September
of twenty twenty two, lend credence to the idea that
the FBI had something to do with Darren's death, as
Bonnie seems to believe, and as the report itself states
that the surveillance didn't begin until early in twenty sixteen,
long after the major Ferguson protest had died down. Why
(36:39):
was the FBI so interested in Darren at all? What
did they hope to accomplish? And if Darren was being
surveilled at the time of his death, why wasn't there
more evidence available as to who killed him, and what
are we to make of Bonnie's references to the members
of the Bottom Boys Kilo in particular, could someone Darren
(37:02):
new entrusted, who he was working to make famous have
been involved in his death? That's next time on After
the Uprising.
Speaker 3 (37:16):
After the Uprising is a production of Double Asterisk and
iHeart Podcasts in association with True Stories. Season two was written, reported,
and produced by Maria Chappelle, Nadal, John Duffy, Mallory Kenoy,
and Reino Vashlski. Executive producers are Nikki Atore and Lindsay
Hoffman for iHeart Podcasts, John Duffy and Rainovashchewski for Double Asterisk,
(37:37):
David Cassidy and Ruth Baka for True Stories. Directed by
John Duffy and Renovashlsky. Theme song and score by Zachary Walter,
sound engineering and mixed by John Autry. Fact checking by
Muffin Humes, Marketing by Alison Canter, Fair Use legal by
Peter Yazi and Brandon Butler. Legal by Holly Decan for
iHeart Podcasts and Keith Sklarr for Double Asterisk, Missouri Sunshine
(38:01):
Legal by David Rowland show logo by iHeart Podcasts using
a photo by Attilo da Gastino. Our interns were Hannah
Madura and Rosemary Fury. Website by Stephanie Clark, recorded at
David Weber's Airtime Studios in Bloomington, Indiana. We want to
acknowledge additional investigation that became part of this podcast was
(38:22):
conducted by Detective Adams in the Saint Louis County Police
and the FBI, who did not participate in this podcast,
and by a Mere Brandy Mosey, Secret and Darnell Singleton.
If you like our work, check out our other podcasts.
You can find us at Double Asteriskmedia dot com and
on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook. Support us on Patreon. If
(38:44):
you're enjoying the show, leave us a rating and review
on your favorite podcast app. Thank you to Jamie Dennis,
Danny Gonzalez, Jonathan Hartwig, Bethan Mcalouso, Matt McDonough, Melissa McKinnes,
Ryan Mears, Tony and Valovosselski and the Family and Loved Ones,
Darren Seals, Bottom Boys, and Doa. Tracks used via fair Use,
(39:05):
So was the News Reporting Archival copyright twenty twenty four.
Double asteriskink
Previously on After the Uprising Good.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
I'm at nineteen forty Diamond Drive and it's a car
on fire in my working life.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Seals was found shot inside a burning car in Riverview
on Diamond Drive.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
I do know that there is a lot of sentiment
in the community that they want justice, they want the truth.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
You know, you still got a life that has a tab.
Speaker 4 (00:26):
On it from your past endeavors. You know what I'm saying.
I think he got set up out of people he
was in the fucking music situation with.
Speaker 5 (00:34):
I ain't never the same brusway.
Speaker 4 (00:36):
It's like he wanted on.
Speaker 6 (00:38):
He said, a white boy came from out of the woods.
He said, a guy would loan herd a ponytail.
Speaker 7 (00:44):
A white boy everything he knows.
Speaker 4 (00:46):
A car was got.
Speaker 8 (00:58):
What you're looking for is the aftermath of the grand
jury deciding not to indict office.
Speaker 4 (01:07):
Nine year old Darren Seals was murdered before his killer
set his car on fire.
Speaker 8 (01:13):
Once they put out the flames, they discovered Seal's body
inside with a gunshop.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
You want a gun on me?
Speaker 9 (01:22):
Am?
Speaker 1 (01:22):
I am, I whats your other brothers focus of PD?
Speaker 8 (01:24):
Grab you by my heart, slam me out the car.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
He said, you might want you might want to pick
your enemies better. This is after the Uprising, season two,
the murder of Darren Seals.
Speaker 10 (01:48):
Did you ever receive the report from the medical of
the Salmoner's office.
Speaker 9 (01:53):
I have what they put on the death certificate.
Speaker 10 (01:58):
Yep.
Speaker 9 (01:58):
I wouldn't got the birtificate certificate. But no, I didn't
talk to him all of them.
Speaker 10 (02:04):
And you don't have any documentation from the medical examiner's office.
Speaker 9 (02:09):
Okay, do you? I asked to see I asked to
see my son's body and they said no. Wen taught me,
and you liked that. He said he did not see
his face. I want to see my son's face. And
he said, man, we can't let you see his face
because he don't have a face. He said, he's like
(02:31):
a skeleton and he's completely burning.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
This is Darren Seal's mother, Mary Otis, who goes by
the name Bonnie. Over the course of several months, we
had many many conversations with Bonnie, some in which I
sat with her in her living room for four or
five hours at a time. Others were over the phone
when she would unexpectedly call to talk about this or that,
(03:00):
and we would have to quickly activate a call recording
app from the outset, we will report that sadly, Bonnie
died in August of twenty twenty three. A very religious woman,
Bonnie suffered from a handful of physical ailments. She needed
dialysis treatment for her kidneys three times a week. She
(03:23):
also had oxygen tanks to assist her breathing. Despite these ailments,
Bonnie wasn't a frail woman. To look at her then
in frame, she carried herself in a proud way, always
well dressed and standing up straight, with her Louis Vauton
purse on her arm and her matching head rep From
(03:45):
a young age, Bonnie lived a very hard life, marred
by intent, childhood, abuse, and poverty. Darren's father spent a
lot of time in jail, so Bonnie raised Darren, who
you'll hear her refer to as man men, alongside his
older sister LaToya and his younger brother Byron. With their
(04:08):
father not around, Darren looked out for his younger brother,
and both boys felt exceedingly protective of Bonnie.
Speaker 9 (04:17):
Him and Darren was together in this truck and he said,
promise me, if I leave first, you promised to take
her on mom And he said I will say, okay,
I'll will, and man May said see him too. If
you leave first, I promise I'm gonna take her a mom.
So whichever one of them went first, there was the
(04:39):
Bonnie hand.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
It was very important for us to get to know
Bonnie for several reasons, one of which was because in
twenty sixteen, when Darren died, he was still very close
to his mother and spoke to her regularly, including by
phone only hours before his death. We thought Bonnie would
be key to he getting a sense of what Darren
(05:01):
was up to right before he was murdered. When we
started our interviews, COVID was just winding down, so Bodie
had spent a lot of time in isolation. Because she
was so grateful to be connecting again in person with people,
live people, she would jump from topic to topic and
(05:22):
we would have to keep up with her. Here's an
example where I was asking about Darren and his girlfriend
Naomi and where they lived.
Speaker 9 (05:32):
Because he moved from my house to her apartment and
then he wanted to move back here. And She's trying
to talk to me like I'm his friend, like I
ain't his mama, Like basically, like she really don't want
me to let my son come back home. I was
like this, your was lost some mind. So I suppose
I lock my door on my son and he and
(05:54):
her in Sprint store. They videotape all it, even spring death.
How I know it didn't have none to do with
no kids. It didn't have not a do with no well.
I mean, you know those are the young guys and
had this was bigger than it. Anytime Sprint involved in
doing un the cover stuff, why not want them?
Speaker 10 (06:16):
I don't understand what you're talking about.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Listening to Bonnie, it could be a puzzle. We weren't
always sure what she was talking about. She put things
in her own order that we would have to work
to iron out later, but in doing so we learned
a lot. For one, she would often reference some investigative
reporter who had contacted her, who seemingly offered his services
(06:42):
to help her find out what had happened to Darren.
She wouldn't tell us his name.
Speaker 6 (06:47):
Though, investigator the one that I was dealing with. He's
a reporter. He truly noticed story, so be but he
can't even do nothing with it.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
What about introducing us? Maybe you could float it to
this investigator to see if he wanted to do something,
maybe we'd work with this investigator and the stuff that
he can turn up helps your case. The stuff we
turn up can help your case. We put out a podcast,
he puts out articles at the same time. You know,
it's a thought, but you know what.
Speaker 6 (07:13):
To be honest, he came to me because I had
so much information that helped him not to even have
to work forward. Because he was asking me to do
this and do this, and I say, oh, okay, I
already got this.
Speaker 4 (07:27):
Yeah, But I mean, isn't the goal to get new
information and get as close as possible to proving all
the things that need proven here? So I mean, so
if you make it a little easier for him by
providing things to let him do what he does and
get that to the next step and provide you with
more information, then you know what's the problem there.
Speaker 6 (07:47):
I gave him some information and you know, you're sending
me pictures asking me who this person is and who
that person is. And but he was more like Anziah
heard a great story. I mean, he was real smart
with it, but really can't afford to really do the
things that he needs to do.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
When Bonnie says the reporter was like Isaiah. She's referring
to Isaiah Washington, the actor from Grey's Anatomy who apparently
also approached Bonnie and tried to get a movie project
off the ground with her, which eventually fizzled. In fact,
when Bonnie died, Isaiah Washington posted on his Facebook page quote,
I just found out that my dear friend Mary Bonnie
(08:30):
Otis is gone. He said he wanted to share with
her that he'd finally found a serious investor who wanted
to tell her story, and that for seven years he
had tried to get her story told. Apparently that's all true.
Speaker 6 (08:43):
That's it, Isaiah.
Speaker 9 (08:44):
If you can't find his story, yes somebody will can.
Speaker 6 (08:49):
Basically, he was being a middle meast. He's slicing and
dice in a pine. A pine need to heat. Here's
the thing. I didn't want nobody to think that I
can be Nikkel and dons I'll say.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
Donnie believed her story was big, Hollywood big, and at
times she suggested a podcast was too small to contain
everything about her and Darren. But our primary concern was
just finding out what had happened to Darren and sharing
that information with the world. And we would be frustrated
by Bonnie when that didn't seem to be a priority
for her, like this instance, when we asked her about
(09:22):
the medical Examiner's report on Darren's death. We had been
refused to copy by the Medical Examiner's office and we
wanted Bonnie to help us get it.
Speaker 10 (09:30):
So you've never seen the medical Examiner's report ever?
Speaker 9 (09:35):
No, I have some kind of foul or some kind
of rakers so that they investigator send me.
Speaker 10 (09:44):
That you don't mention their name.
Speaker 9 (09:47):
Yeah, whatever he sent me, I wouldn't look at it.
I'm gonna look at it one day, but I'm don't
afford it to us. Well, I'm a I have to
look at a person. See. I'm gonna put it this
a way. I might, but I don't know.
Speaker 10 (10:03):
I got a would you allow us to write a
letter on your behalf and you send it to the
medical examiner to get a copy of the medical record
and then share it with us.
Speaker 9 (10:19):
But I think this one me and him just went through.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Bonnie eventually showed us this email from the investigative reporter
he had sent her instructions on how she could ask
the medical examiner for Darren's autopsy report, but she had
never opened that email. When she showed it to us,
we could see that it had not been read. Though
Bonnie had her own way of telling a story, she
(10:44):
had a mind like a steel trap. After reviewing the
many hours of conversations we'd recorded with her, we were
able to find that she'd given us a lot of
interesting information about Darren's life. For instance, one day, when
she called Ray from her chair at the dialysis center,
(11:04):
she started telling a story about Darren as a young man.
Speaker 6 (11:08):
How they first met.
Speaker 7 (11:09):
We stayed on Green Valley. I always took my kids
to church, and if I even saw my son would
like a red score or something like that, like in
his pocket, he'll slinking out the house, but he'll forget
to take it out of his pocket. Why my family
got out, I said, what is that? Because you ain't
gonna be in no gangs.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
When Bonnie said that Darren was keeping a red scarf
in his pocket, she's referring to his activity with a
local gang, something she didn't approve of. And in talking
about the local gang rivalries, she brings up someone named Jaybird.
Speaker 7 (11:42):
Jaybird with calcil point, and my son was over with
Green Valley, so Green Valley and Calcilporne. Jaybird used to
boss everybody in his neighborhood in Calciforne. SoJ hears my
son was a really good bombing. They said, I'm somebody
that she can be and he was like cool. They said,
(12:04):
this dude looked this over in Council Point and so
he wins. He goes over in Council Point to meet Jaybird,
you know, put him in a box. You know, not
though kill each other. But so they hate the fight
because Jabird was the best fight in Calcifornia and Darren
was the best fighter in Green Valley. Said they wanted
him to come together and see who wins. So they
(12:27):
fought after they got tough fighting because of both of
them were so tough, they became be three.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
Jaybird, You'll remember, was mentioned by Tef Poe back in
episode two. Teff told us that he heard that someone
named Jaybird had been incarcerated and Darren had promised to
help him with something during that stretch, but Darren didn't
follow through. According to Bonnie, after a boxing match that
came to a draw, Darren and jay Bird became best friends.
(12:55):
She told us she would pick Jabird up and drive
him and Darren to school football games, where they would
fight with other boys. She also told us that when
they were older, jay Bird was shot at while he
and Darren were at a barber shop.
Speaker 6 (13:08):
So, my son and Jabers was at a barber shop.
My son in there in the cheers, Jaber on the front,
having some other people.
Speaker 7 (13:19):
So being this car drying down the street, and when
this car designs down the street and he just thole shooting,
and that he was shooting big was so a ducking
and he's still a running.
Speaker 4 (13:32):
Seen is this Paul or after Darren gets shot in
twenty thirteen?
Speaker 7 (13:37):
Yeah, this is before?
Speaker 6 (13:39):
Thank you?
Speaker 4 (13:39):
So sure?
Speaker 6 (13:40):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (13:41):
Remembering what tef Po told us, we figured we would
ask Bonnie if she knew anything about her responsibility. Darren
may have had to take care of something for jay
Bird while he was incarcerated.
Speaker 4 (13:52):
Hadn't jay Bird gone to jail in twenty sixteen and
wasn't Darren helping him out on the outside? Do you
know what I mean about that?
Speaker 7 (14:00):
Darren?
Speaker 6 (14:01):
No, Darren won't happened them out. Darren makes up that
Darren was in a movie at all.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Bonnie seems to think Darren wasn't doing anything for Jaybird
in that timeframe. Maybe he was and she just didn't
know about it. Maybe this is consistent with what Tef
Poe heard, that Darren wasn't living up to a commitment
he'd made. It's hard to say more with Bonnie after
the break. Now back to the show. Not only was
(14:39):
Bonnie one of the last people to speak with Darren,
but after his death, it seems as though Bonnie became
a central hub that people turned to to provide clues
and tips about what had happened to him. Some of
it is verifiable and some of it contradictory. Now that
Bonnie is gone, what she told us will remain the
only collection of this information and sorting through it, we
(15:03):
did our best to build a picture of Darren's last
day alive. It was September fifth, twenty sixteen, Labor.
Speaker 4 (15:10):
Day, the last call between Byron and Darren. Like what
did Darren in part generally speaking to Byron, like where
was he when he was one? Nay, we're having that call,
and what was the nature of the conversation.
Speaker 7 (15:23):
He was at home with me and they would just having,
you know, just.
Speaker 6 (15:28):
A regular brother conversation.
Speaker 7 (15:30):
He didn't sound like he was in no danger, you know,
like anything bad.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
We asked Byron if he remembered that call.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
The last phone calling I have my brother was I
had talked somewhere on the time while he was out,
and he was supposed to take me to the mall
and go grab some new shoes and just chop it
up and go out to eat and just talk and
you know, just have our regular today. And his last
words was I love you, saying for me to him.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
At the time, Darren was living in his own apartment
near Ferguson, and according to Bonnie, Darren's girlfriend, Naomi, frequently
stayed with him, though she did not have her own key. Apparently,
many of Darren's friends were at a Labor Day barbecue,
but Darren chose not to attend. Instead, he and Naomi
spent that afternoon at his grandmother's house.
Speaker 4 (16:23):
Well, when was the last time you ever spoke with
or saw Darren?
Speaker 7 (16:28):
He went to the grocery store for my mom and
usually on a holidays she always cook, so human Naomi
went to the store. Why they was at the store,
he had ass Naom did some taco bowls and made
some concos. I always told my folks to house, but
that's what I would call them. Pah. She bought some chicawings.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
She covered a lot of ground there, but it breaks
down to this. Darren went to the store to buy
food for his grandmother. Naomi was with him, and they
bought ingredients for a taco bolt dinner they were going
to prepare for themselves. Bonnie called Darren to tell him
that if he wanted, he could come eat grilled chicken
at her sister's place.
Speaker 7 (17:08):
After talking to me, then he ended up on the
phone with Kelo and she told me the whole conversation.
She listened to everything he pleased.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
Bonnie is telling us something. Naomi later told her that
after he'd hung up with his mother, Darren had ended
up on the phone with Kelo. Kelo, if you recall
from episode three, was one of the members of the
rap group Darren was managing at the time, the Bottom Boys.
Bonnie is saying that Naomi listened to Darren's whole conversation
with Keilo.
Speaker 6 (17:38):
Some my guyn was dark and he was talking about
doing the video. He gave him a point. He said, no, man,
he chose me too much.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
According to what Bonnie says, Naomi told her Darren's phone
call with Kilo was about a white music video maker
that Keilo wanted to use, but Darren was saying the
price this director quoted was too high and that he
would come right over to discuss the matter. This seems
to match up well with what we were told by
Sharif Allen that Darren's death revolved around an argument over
(18:09):
something music related.
Speaker 6 (18:11):
He was like, now, because he's telling me, I got, y'all,
don't worry about anything, and he was telling the truth,
and he said he got because he's just way known
a settlement. He settled for fifty five thousand dollars and
he had borret some money from his lawyers to take
them out of Penny.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
It turns out Darren sued the apartment complex where he
had been shot six times back in twenty thirteen, and
he was awarded a large settlement. Bonnie is saying here
that Darren was telling Kilo not to worry about money,
and that he planned to use what he borrowed from
his lawyer against his incoming settlement to take the Bottom
Boys members out of town to meet with record executives.
Speaker 7 (18:50):
After that, he didn't hang up the phone with Kiyo.
Speaker 6 (18:54):
He just dropped her host and he said, I'll be
right back.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
So, according to Bonnie's memory of what Naomi told her,
Darren was still on the phone with Kilo when he
dropped her off at his apartment, where she began cooking dinner,
and Darren said he would be right back. This would
have been, according to Bonnie's memory of the story, around
six pm.
Speaker 4 (19:14):
Here's what I'm trying to figure out is the first
phone call regarding the jeep on fire is like one
forty five am. But my question would be if he
was telling Naomi, I'll be right back and leaves with
her ready to make him dinner, so that would seem
to be that he would think that he could get
back home and possibly eat dinner and make the forty
(19:35):
minute trip to GM in time for his eleven PM ship.
Speaker 7 (19:37):
He didn't even leave that late. He left my mom pouse,
and when he left my mom pouse he called me.
And here's the thing, it was still real early, so
he should have went down or made it back to
eat and take a nap. This was like about five
or six o'clock. He would have had time to eat,
(20:00):
take now at least get them with life a little
power now a couple hours bleeps and if do.
Speaker 4 (20:05):
You'll make it to one the timeline I always placed
the timeline much later in the night, like he gets
called over to some late night party or whoever he
you know, whoever tells him to meet whatever the actual
story is, right, whatever happened to him. If he stops
updating people and Naomi never got another update, then like
that sounds like there's this huge gap of time from what,
let's say, six pm until the jeep is reported on
(20:28):
fire at like that was my question.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
This gap in time, if Bonnie's memory is correct, is
roughly seven hours between when Darren is talking to Kilo
on the phone in the car next to Naomi and
when he is ultimately found in his burning jeep early
the next morning. Bonnie had told us that Darren was
supposed to be at work that night at the GM
plan at eleven PM, but reading at social media, we
(20:54):
later learned that he had switched to a morning shift.
We asked Byron what he remembered about.
Speaker 11 (20:59):
This, Patty had a shift, When did that shift tend to.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Start early in the morning? Usually, like because at the
time when I was staying with him, he would go
to work from maybe I think from seven, so like
some close around to the evening.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
If Darren didn't have to work that night, he wouldn't
necessarily have had to rush back from his meeting with
Kilo in order to have time to eat his dinner
and then make the forty minute drive to the GM plant.
But we still thought it would be odd or at
least rude for him to tell Naomi that she should
start preparing dinner and that he'd be right back, and
(21:37):
then to just ditcher. Darren's final social media post was
made on Facebook at six twenty six pm. It's a
photo of the words Bottom Boys spray painted on a wall.
Darren tagged one person with the post Bottom Boys member
Ricky Smith aka Little Ricky or LR. We don't know
(21:59):
what he posted this photo because he was with l R,
but it raises the question of whether Darren had gone
to meet not only Kilo but the rest of the
Bottom Boys, which wouldn't be strange if they were discussing
their next music video as far as the timeline of
events goes, Bunny said at some point in the evening,
(22:21):
Darren had butt dialed her. She said when she answered,
she could hear talking and music, but that Darren couldn't
hear her calling out to him.
Speaker 7 (22:30):
He kept when he was talking, you could hear music,
and I kept saying, may I'm not feel like like
three times your mom said.
Speaker 5 (22:42):
That Darren but dialed there a few times that evening.
Did she describe that with you?
Speaker 11 (22:48):
Yeah?
Speaker 10 (22:48):
She did.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
She had told me he book called I think but
twice Toothy Tom.
Speaker 11 (22:54):
Do you happen to know if those butt dials happened
after that last call that you had with him or before.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
I think it was after that.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
Byron guess Darren had spoken to him around eight thirty
or nine, so these butt dials would have come after that.
But this information is very tenuous, as we're asking Byron
to remember phone calls that happened eight years earlier when
he'd only been fourteen years old. So take it or
leave it. What does seem reliable is that Darren left
(23:23):
his apartment to go meet Kilo to talk about something
Bottom Boys related. The supposed white music video director's story
is hard to tease out. All of the Bottom Boys
videos up to that point had been made by a
black director whose company was called More or Less Media.
It's tempting to try to connect disparate facts and presume
(23:45):
this white music video maker was not only real, but
that he was the man with the ponytail seen by
the Ridgeview witness. But we have to remember this was
just a story supposedly told by Kilo to Darren, overheard
by Naomi, who passed it to Bonnie. But Bonnie believed
the white guy was real and that he was involved
(24:07):
in Darren's death.
Speaker 10 (24:09):
To her, the idea that.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
Any of the Bottom Boys could have been in on
it made no sense because again, her understanding was that
Darren was about to use his own money to bring
the whole group to Atlanta to possibly get.
Speaker 6 (24:23):
Signed, and he did out the money, and it was
the means of all you said, I he sposed to
take him to Alana. So they would have wanted to
go to Atlanta and become souls and get signed, they
wouldn't have wanted to be with him.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
So let's say Darren does go to meet Kilo and
maybe other members of the Bottom Boys. Where did that
meeting happen? We told Bonnie what we'd heard about the
possibility of Darren having been killed on Gamble Street, and
to our surprise, she heard the same thing.
Speaker 10 (24:58):
Yes, several people who say gamb is the street where
Garrett was.
Speaker 9 (25:01):
Actually because I got a phone call from the guy,
ain't says now. He just called me and just said
when my son got murdered.
Speaker 5 (25:10):
It and he didn't leave his name.
Speaker 9 (25:14):
He didn't. He didn't like when he was first talking
to me, he didn't.
Speaker 10 (25:19):
But no, it wasn't.
Speaker 9 (25:22):
No, he just told me that your son died on
Gamble over by, close by the Gamble Wolves Center. That's
all we see it.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
But like we said, Bunny was getting a lot of
weird tips and clues, some of which may have been
intentionally wrong in order to poison the well in case
she was sharing information with police.
Speaker 6 (25:48):
Somebody said they was arguing in a truck and they
was on Diamond right a fause from the store. Write
with those apartments that not the apartments work truck was
that the one of offa Chambers. They was wiped up
on that SI and they said when they got their
head used the don't but he got real heated. They
got relapped. I say, man, that's a lot at.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
The intersection of Chambers and Diamond where this heated argument
inside Darren's jeep supposedly occurred. There's a convenience store called
the Rock of Food Mart. This intersection is less than
a mile north of the ridge View apartments where Darren's
jeep and body were ultimately found. But Bonnie doesn't believe
(26:30):
this particular story.
Speaker 7 (26:32):
Why I said, that's a lot.
Speaker 6 (26:34):
It didn't happen one day, because what was the white
guy that's supposed to he food the video?
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Since the mystery white music video maker wasn't described as
having been present in this scenario, Bonnie threw it out
whole cloth more after the break. Now back to the show.
Speaker 9 (27:02):
The truck melted to the ground to work a little
bit that was left or the truck. The fire department
used some stuff and it was like white phone is
like stuff to put it out.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Police came to Bonnie's home the morning Darren's car was
discovered to deliver the news that Darren was dead. She
made her way to the Ridgeview apartments, where she walked
the crime scene and spoke to people in the gathering crowd.
Looking at the remaining foam that had been used to
douse the fire from the night before, she noticed something.
Speaker 9 (27:36):
When I got there and I seen the door and
all that ashy stuff and all that white phone stuff.
It was three shiny bullets. It looked like somebody took
three brand new bullets and just laid them on the ground,
laid them brighten the pound, and they were still shining
on top.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
We thought it would be weird that what appeared to
be new bullets would be laying on top of the
fire retardant foam. At that point, anyone who wanted could
roam about the crime scene, so evidence could not only
be taken, but false evidence could have been added. This
point is highlighted by what Bonnie says was done with
(28:17):
the door of Darren's jeep, which had come disconnected from
the body of the vehicle and had been left behind
by the towing company.
Speaker 9 (28:26):
Naomi got the door off the ground, and she still writing.
She wrote her name up there hers, you know, wrote
some on the wild man man and everybody was dying
in the door. You know, the name's going all the
way there.
Speaker 10 (28:43):
Did Naomi take anything from the premises of the burning car?
Speaker 6 (28:48):
Yah?
Speaker 9 (28:49):
Yeah, they watched her.
Speaker 7 (28:51):
Everybody watched her.
Speaker 9 (28:53):
She took the door with all the thigmas is on it.
She put that in the car. I always thought I'm
weird about her too, because that is am I mean,
was he going.
Speaker 6 (29:03):
To marry her?
Speaker 9 (29:05):
He said, no, Mom, I believes she worked for the Faith.
Speaker 6 (29:08):
He said.
Speaker 9 (29:09):
I said, why do you say that? He said, because
she followed me if you want to go and then
and you know, as I kept watching out and seeing
how she act toward him, I said, it's only she
working for somebody, and I believe it's to this day,
I really supper believe it now.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
We didn't know what to make of the statement from
Bonnie that Darren supposedly made telling her that he believed
Naomi worked for the FEDS. It would raise all kinds
of questions about why Darren would be with her if
he believed this to be the case. The first instance
we can find of Naomi and Darren's social media is
(29:47):
from the spring of twenty sixteen, a little over three
months before his murder, when he traveled with her to
a wedding in Atlanta where he was her date. We
asked Byron about Naomi.
Speaker 5 (30:00):
Did you ever hear your mom and Darren talk about Naomi?
Speaker 2 (30:08):
Yeah, my mom used to ask all the time. Of course,
any other mother would ask, you know, how to treating you,
how you guys relationship is going?
Speaker 5 (30:16):
Did Darren ever share with you some concerns that he
had about Naomi.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
Yeah, basically like who was she working with?
Speaker 11 (30:24):
You know, the different things, like meaning that she was
working potentially with like the cops. Yeah, yeah, Like why
would you keep dating someone that you suspected?
Speaker 6 (30:36):
Yeah?
Speaker 11 (30:37):
Do you know?
Speaker 9 (30:38):
Not sure?
Speaker 6 (30:40):
Was he in love?
Speaker 2 (30:41):
Honestly he showed it in a way, but it was
like always like in the bag of his head. It
was like, you know, it was something that he just
felt like it was summer.
Speaker 10 (30:52):
Right.
Speaker 11 (30:53):
Do you happen to know what became of her? I
mean I haven't been in contact with her.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
I mean I see her on Facebook, you know, take
a different trips and everything.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
We reached out to Naomi, and when we finally got
in touch with her, she decided against doing an on
the record interview. We never saw any evidence that she
was working for the FEDS, and it seems highly unlikely
that she was an informant sent to date Darren and
to report on him. It's weird too that if Bonnie
(31:25):
believed that she was, why she would believe anything Naomi
told her about Darren's last night. The whole Kilo phone
call in White music video maker that Bonnie seems to
fully believe in that came from Naomi.
Speaker 9 (31:39):
One guy as Kilo. The he said during look, he
said no man, I said no. He said, well you
what was the last one to see him? And he
said man. He said, Darren dropped me off and then
he went over with some cheeck house Again.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
This is Bonnie recounting something she heard the morning of
Darren's death in the parking lot at the Ridgeview Apartments.
People were flooding the scene, including members of the Bottom Boys,
and in the ensuing chatter, it came out that Kelo
had been with Darren the night before, but Keilo said
(32:16):
that Darren had parted ways with him and gone to
see a girl. In episode two, Tef Poe said this
was something he knew Darren to do, to tell his
girlfriend that he had business to attend to and then
to use that time to go hook up with other women.
We don't know if Bonnie believed this story about Darren
(32:37):
sneaking off after his meeting with Kelo, but she did
insist that Kilo wasn't his killer, even if he did
wittingly or not play a role in getting Darren out
of the house that night.
Speaker 9 (32:51):
The way I'm looking at it now, I feel like
it was a settle one thing I knowing not to anybody.
Kelo did not kill my son. He got him on
the house and he the one was dealing with the
white guy. They he claimed that was gonna help with
the video. But forys killing him. No, no, no, he
didn't do that. He didn't do that at all. So
(33:13):
because he couldn't drive a stick ship, So who drove
My question is who drove the stick shift from Gamble
all the way to die because this is what I
looked at from Gamble Street. All of you come through
Naja Breeze, come to the county, you would burn that
clutch out.
Speaker 10 (33:34):
So in our investigation that we have found the person
who was driving it up the hill from Riverview.
Speaker 8 (33:43):
Did not know how to drive a siction. So what
we are told that that witness he actually saw. Yeah,
that person was not able.
Speaker 10 (33:55):
Whoever it was did not know how to drive.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
Us finally acknowledge what the rich few witness said about
whoever drove Darren's jeep into the parking lot that night
not knowing how to operate a stick shift, And we
wondered if maybe she wasn't trying to drop a hint
about Keilo without outright telling us she was suspicious of him,
as a way to put us on his trail without
actually stitching. But then she said this, as we're trying.
Speaker 10 (34:21):
To investigate this with you and find it like who
the murder could have been.
Speaker 9 (34:28):
But I'm not gonna let nothing of nobody change my
mind because I already know who did it. The FBI
did this to myself. I mean that nine hundred sheet records,
well one of them playing they've been following him for months.
Why are you following him? They telled you, and he
(34:51):
said they wouldn't do no. But falling behind him, just
falling behind you. Know, that's enough proof right there.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
The nine hundred page record that Bonnie is referring to
is an FBI report that was obtained through a Freedom
of Information Act request made by Saint Louis based activist
and photographer James Cooper, who didn't want to be interviewed.
Speaker 9 (35:14):
For the show.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
It took two years for the FBI to furnish the
documents to Cooper, and of the nine hundred total pages supplied,
about eight hundred and sixty of them are fully redacted.
The remaining pages contain partial redactions, but what is available
to be read makes clear that Darren was being actively
surveilled by the FBI starting in March of twenty sixteen,
(35:40):
all the way up until the time of his death.
Speaker 6 (35:44):
My son always tell me that months, don't you he said,
anything happens to me, you think that they don't kill him?
Not to please stop playing it, he speaking, because he's
an alms. They follow me every wando, he said, every wando.
You say, my mom tells you say, they don't kill them,
He say, you But if they do, he said, don't
you tail? But they come to nothing different.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
Does this report, which was only made public in September
of twenty twenty two, lend credence to the idea that
the FBI had something to do with Darren's death, as
Bonnie seems to believe, and as the report itself states
that the surveillance didn't begin until early in twenty sixteen,
long after the major Ferguson protest had died down. Why
(36:39):
was the FBI so interested in Darren at all? What
did they hope to accomplish? And if Darren was being
surveilled at the time of his death, why wasn't there
more evidence available as to who killed him, and what
are we to make of Bonnie's references to the members
of the Bottom Boys Kilo in particular, could someone Darren
(37:02):
new entrusted, who he was working to make famous have
been involved in his death? That's next time on After
the Uprising.
Speaker 3 (37:16):
After the Uprising is a production of Double Asterisk and
iHeart Podcasts in association with True Stories. Season two was written, reported,
and produced by Maria Chappelle, Nadal, John Duffy, Mallory Kenoy,
and Reino Vashlski. Executive producers are Nikki Atore and Lindsay
Hoffman for iHeart Podcasts, John Duffy and Rainovashchewski for Double Asterisk,
(37:37):
David Cassidy and Ruth Baka for True Stories. Directed by
John Duffy and Renovashlsky. Theme song and score by Zachary Walter,
sound engineering and mixed by John Autry. Fact checking by
Muffin Humes, Marketing by Alison Canter, Fair Use legal by
Peter Yazi and Brandon Butler. Legal by Holly Decan for
iHeart Podcasts and Keith Sklarr for Double Asterisk, Missouri Sunshine
(38:01):
Legal by David Rowland show logo by iHeart Podcasts using
a photo by Attilo da Gastino. Our interns were Hannah
Madura and Rosemary Fury. Website by Stephanie Clark, recorded at
David Weber's Airtime Studios in Bloomington, Indiana. We want to
acknowledge additional investigation that became part of this podcast was
(38:22):
conducted by Detective Adams in the Saint Louis County Police
and the FBI, who did not participate in this podcast,
and by a Mere Brandy Mosey, Secret and Darnell Singleton.
If you like our work, check out our other podcasts.
You can find us at Double Asteriskmedia dot com and
on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook. Support us on Patreon. If
(38:44):
you're enjoying the show, leave us a rating and review
on your favorite podcast app. Thank you to Jamie Dennis,
Danny Gonzalez, Jonathan Hartwig, Bethan Mcalouso, Matt McDonough, Melissa McKinnes,
Ryan Mears, Tony and Valovosselski and the Family and Loved Ones,
Darren Seals, Bottom Boys, and Doa. Tracks used via fair Use,
(39:05):
So was the News Reporting Archival copyright twenty twenty four.
Double asteriskink
Hosts And Creators
Ray Nowosielski
Maria Chappelle-Nadal
John Duffy
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