James Worthy | Ep 201 | ALL THE SMOKE Full Episode | SHOWTIME BASKETBALL - All The Smoke

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:10):
M hmmm, welcome back all the smoke. Season five. Jack
has been a nice three days.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
That's the way they ended.

Speaker 3 (00:29):
We get a strong three time NBA champ, n C
Double A Champ, Finals MVP in nineteen eighty eight Hall
of famer, his team was the reason I fell in
love with basketball.

Speaker 2 (00:43):
A lot to the show. Yeah, James Worthy, appreciate youa
what a pleasure, man, appreciate it. I love what you
guys are doing. Man, ain't it's honored to be here
for real? Thank you?

Speaker 3 (00:53):
I mean speak to obviously, the media crossover is prevalent
now with former athletes, but you kind of did it
and it wasn't as common. You kind of worked your media,
you know, your media journey to what you're doing now.
But speak to how you're seeing more players kind of
cross over now to how important you feel that is.

Speaker 2 (01:11):
Yeah, I think it's. Uh, I think it's imperative for
those who are interested.

Speaker 4 (01:15):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:15):
You know, I wanted to do radio. You know, they
always told me, you know, you have the face for radio.
So I was like, I was like, so I was
I was like, you know, I thought I could do that.
But then coming in coming to Los Angeles, Uh, you know,
being in the media, you know, environment and it being

(01:36):
you know, a lot of opportunities. I got an opportunity to,
uh to work a game because Stu Lands was working
with Chick Hearn and Uh, Stu had to go to
a funeral in his hometown, so I replaced him, and
Sue Stratton, who was the producer at the time, she says, hey,

(01:57):
you know you have a future in this. So every
ever since she told me that. That was a year
after I retired. Uh, and then I've always wanted to
be in the medias to something exposure like radio or
you know, even you know, uh investing in AM radio
stations with something I always you know, thought about. So,
but being in LA getting exposure, Uh, I sucked at

(02:20):
it at the beginning because you know, as an athlete
you have the knowledge. But then as you guys know
from taping and timing, you know, so it it took
me a while. So I worked. I worked at k
CAL nine. I worked for the Seattle SuperSonics with Kevin Collaboro,
just trying to get on tape. Uh, yeah, exactly, and

(02:41):
the Vancouver UH Grizzlies at the time before they moved
to Memphis. So and it's turned out to be a
great job. I enjoy what I do. I've gotten really
comfortable with it. So yeah, but I love to see
guys who are interested in it because they have a
lot to convey to an audience. You know, audience just
see a lot, but they don't always know why something happened.

(03:03):
And that's where the athlete comes into play.

Speaker 3 (03:07):
Showtime Lakers, you guys as a whole has been in
the news a lot because of the winning time.

Speaker 2 (03:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (03:14):
Did you get a chance to watch that? And what
were your thoughts if you did?

Speaker 2 (03:17):
You know, I haven't watched it in detail sometime i'd
be because I said I wasn't going to watch when
the first start.

Speaker 3 (03:22):
Yeah, so to tell me, so that wasn't cleared by you?
What was the written? It was a book written by Peerlman.
So you know, players don't really have rights to anything.

Speaker 2 (03:33):
You know, when it comes to uh, you know, writing
movies and books and things of that nature. So the
book was written, and I remember doing a couple of
interviews on one interview for the book of several years ago,
which turned into a series. Uh. And you know, the Lakers,

(03:53):
you know, had their own legacy. Uh, so we were
focused on that. But lately every now and I'm going
through the channel. You know, I don't want to stop,
but I'll stop because they you know, they presented me,
and I wanted to see the guy that was playing me.
You know, for for fans who you know, who lived

(04:14):
that era and some who didn't, and they like it.
You know, sometimes it's a little satire, not always exactly
what it. You know, I don't. I really didn't have
a problem with it. I didn't really watch it because
I lived it. It just looked weird to me to
watch it. And I know how Hollywood is, so you know,

(04:35):
I was cool with it. I would have liked to
have taken part in it.

Speaker 5 (04:40):
It was.

Speaker 2 (04:40):
It was. It was a great decade. You know, there
was more to it than you know, all the all
the crazy stuff. You know, it was Larry and magic.
You know, there was a radical part to it. You know,
there was a race component to it, you know, the
West Coast and Boston. Uh. And I think it could
have been much better better, But for those who enjoyed it,

(05:02):
you know, it's all good.

Speaker 3 (05:03):
I held off watching it because I heard the former
players weren't stamping it.

Speaker 2 (05:06):
But once I started watching I liked it. I hear
the same thing man Strong for y'allah. I watched that.

Speaker 6 (05:13):
I think that the guy who played Bird did an
excellent job. Man yeah, he for He'll fool you to.

Speaker 2 (05:19):
Do the play.

Speaker 3 (05:20):
I mean, I thought they got a lot of the
guys right as far as like portraying them. You know,
they guy to play j.

Speaker 2 (05:26):
I thought Kareem was good. You know, I thought Jerry Buss,
you know, from what I saw I heard, I mean,
it wasn't it wasn't his accurate as I remember, you know,
but you know, when you're making a movie, you have
to uh you know, uh yeah. So you know, my
hats off to him.

Speaker 3 (05:45):
Lakers this year kind of made an unexpected run. Last year,
I thought that Roblink had a really good summer grabbing
some pieces. Thoughts on them this year.

Speaker 2 (05:55):
Well, you know, after you know, and I'm not in
the moral seasons and more big is I was. I
was okay with what they did, considering what they you know,
had to go through, had had trade deadline been like December,
and they'd had a chance to make some moves early,
and you know, and I love Westbrook. Sometimes the chemistry

(06:15):
is now what it should be you know, it just
didn't work out. But after that, you know, I thought
the run that they made to get into the play
in was was pretty amazing. And then Memphis and Golden Stakes,
so they're looking to compound on that, you know, picking
up I really like Gabe from Miami, uh, you know,
and some of the guys, but the key, you know,

(06:36):
Austin Rivers, who I think is emerging as a really
improved player. Rui. Uh and then Wood who they picked up.
Share what you want to about Woods, He's the numbers
gallon and so John Yeah, see runs farm, you know.
You know, so I feel that they this is like
Lebron's one of his last runs and uh but I

(06:59):
think it's it's going to be up to what a
D wants to do exactly. Uh. You know, Lebron is Lebron,
but it's a d's team and I think it's time
for him to uh and I think he understands that. Uh. So, yeah,
I feel really good. You know, Golden State's going to
be are They're gonna make one more run. I think
with the guys of course, Denver, uh, you know, Phoenix

(07:22):
defended with Booker. You never can count them out. So
it's gonna be interesting, it's gonna be hot tomorrow.

Speaker 3 (07:27):
Get an opportunity to watch bron a lot lately. He
passed your former teammate obviously last season as an all
time scoring just being able to see him and play
with Magic, play with Jordans. What have you seen from him?
Obviously a little bit later in his career, but just
his body of work and his run during his.

Speaker 2 (07:45):
Leader Yeah, his his body at work is uh, is
pretty amazing coming out of high school. Uh, you know,
college is where you get the repetition of skills and
work and you get to do the drills for him
to come you know, straight out of high school. Of course.
Amazing body and for what he's done, you know, regardless

(08:07):
of if he's done it with three teams, he's done it.
And uh, he has a formula to longevity. Uh. You know,
he's in the he's in the talk of you know,
you know, being one of one of the one of
the greatest. I can't say, you know who the greatest is, right,
I Mean, if I had to guess, I would have
to go with Kareem with his full body of work.

(08:27):
I think it's I think it's a full body of work.
If you've seen it all, you can make a determination.
But Lebron uh, you know, to be uh playing like
a twenty some year old dominating the way he has.
Of course, the science and the and and and the
theory of the game of how you stay in shape
and diet everything, it's changed tremendously. But his his ability

(08:51):
to will reminds me of magic. You know, you're comfortable
with him on the floor because you knows something it's
going to happen. Good an assist guy a score. So
I like his body at work, and you know he'll
be mentioned in obviously the top three or four.

Speaker 5 (09:09):
He's mastered the longevity play.

Speaker 2 (09:11):
He's massive. He mastered that better than anybody that I've
ever seen in any sport, including golf. When you can
play for a long time in golf. But I mean,
I mean you look at what you know, what he's
been able to do and still able to do. Two
pay close attention to details and sacrifice, you know, to

(09:35):
keep his body afloat. And they have the will sometimes
you know, it's mind of a matter, right, and he
has that.

Speaker 6 (09:44):
Growing up in Gastonia and North Carolina, I played basketball
up the road at Okhill yeah, what do you remember
about your childhood?

Speaker 2 (09:53):
Man? Childhood was it was there was no exposure, about
thirty thousand people, uh from Gaston in and the education
was poor. You know, my dad had an eighth grade education.
My mom went back to college to get a nursing

(10:14):
you know degree later twenty three years after she graduated.
So it was it was tough and you don't realize
the situation you're in until later. I didn't realize what
I had been through until I went to college. When
you when you poor young, you don't know you poor.
You just don't know. Well, my mom and dad were
home every night, as opposed to some of my neighbors

(10:36):
who didn't have that. I mean, I thought we were rich.
You know, we had something to eat, biscuits in my lasties,
you know, my grandmother lived around the corner, so I
you know, I was happy. But you know, as far
as the educational system, you know, when I took the
SAT and I was like damn. And then you know,
I had reading disabilities and because of the education system,

(10:58):
the school system was really corrupt and you know, depending
on where you lived. And I went through integration, you know,
and and in elementary school. So that was. That was tough.
Uh So my childhood was was sheltered, uh not a
lot of conversation in my house. My mother was really submissive,

(11:20):
my dad was who he was, and I, you know,
my childer brothers we grew up and said, we're never
going to be like our dad. You know he was
you know, he was never home hardly. You know, we
we ended up just lik him. So those cycles, you know,
they perpetuate themselves as you get older, and until you

(11:41):
able to break those cycles, they will disrupt your life.
So I deal with a lot of like mental therapy
right now, trying to get guys to focus on don't
be ashamed to sit down with the therapist, because I'm
sixty two and for the last past fifteen years, I've
been breaking these cycles you know of DNA. You know,

(12:06):
you look like your parents. Yeah, you know, you walk
around the town and say, oh you so and so son,
So you look like them, but you also bring forth
a lot of that pain, a lot of that anxiety,
you know, uh, resentment, shame, you know, especially you know

(12:26):
for a black man who who has dealt and still
deals with, you know, systemic racism on a daily basis,
for what you have to deal with. Then you've got
to come home and try to, you know, compose yourself
when you really don't have, you know, a voice. I
didn't have a voice. I got married without a voice,

(12:46):
you know what I mean. I didn't have any expression.
I just I played ball, you know, girls liked me,
you know, but I didn't have I didn't have a voice.
I didn't know how to live in that environment. I
lived into my thirties like that. So, you know, that
was my childhood. That's what my childhood yielded me. So

(13:08):
it's important to kind of grasp those moments. If you can't,
I kind of wish that, you know, study hall and
pe and high school or in junior high could be
replaced not so much with a psychiatrist, but with conversation
to kind of help these kids move along, because otherwise
you'll bury it, you'll internalize it, explode, and you won't

(13:33):
be able to convey it. And yeah, it comes out.
It's gonna come out somewhere drinking, you know whatever. Women,
it's gonna come out somehow in a negative way. So
we need to we need to deal with that. You know.
We go to the barber shop and that's where we get.
That's our therapy. But it's okay. You know, I grew
up weak. What I'm not going to see no da

(13:55):
going to see no they. I've seen our communities in
our community, you know, buck up, you know. So we
were taught that, but we need to realize it's okay, man,
it's okay to you know, sometimes you have to cry,
sometimes you have to get that ship out. That's that's that.
That was my childhood. But my child was cool. Nothing
to do. Sports, that was it. If you didn't have sports,
you were you were going to be either going to

(14:17):
the military or depending on your you know, your your education.
You you know, some people went to college. But uh,
it was nothing to do but sports. Know, we had
no gangs or nothing like that. So you know, if
you were caught up, you know, go downtown, try to
steal something. There was a lot of that going on.
But we had sports, and we had the boys about this.

(14:39):
My brothers took me around six grades. They had a
league called Gray Why and it was through the y
m c A. Through your elementary school at the time
was one through six. But the goals were only uh
five eight and they had a height limit. I barely
made the height limit. I think it was like five
seven into something. I was tall, but I knew I had,

(15:04):
you know, some future. In the eighth grade, like in
the seventh grade, I was like six feet and from
seventh grade to eighth grade, I grew like five. And
I was at the boys club. Uh my director, mister Perry,
was talking to some high school guys who were athletes

(15:26):
and they were football players. And I heard him say, scholarship.
You can get a free ride if you get a scholarship.
And I had no idea really what scholarship was all about.
And I was like, you can get a free ride
to college if you you know, if you're if you're balling.
I had two older brothers in college, my mom and dad.
We was scuffling put them through school. So that's when

(15:46):
I really got interested. Wasn't that good in football baseball?
So yeah, start getting busy.

Speaker 5 (15:53):
When you hear the name Dean Smith, will comes to mind.

Speaker 2 (15:58):
Conscious brother. He was a conscious man. You know. He
really used his platform too to enroll you into what
was possible in your life. He developed good citizens. And
you see that not with Michael and Sam and I
and Vince. You see it with all his lettermen who

(16:19):
have done well. He took us to play a game
with North Carolina State Prison. We went in there and
this was in eighty and you know, I wasn't comfortable.

(16:40):
I mean, they were looking at us in different ways
than basketball. But he was. He was. He's that kind
of guy, you know, he's it didn't matter if you
were Michael Jordan or Michael the Tower Boy. So he
used his platform very well to kind of prep you
for life and keep you humble.

Speaker 6 (17:00):
Did he make you feel not only wanted, but like
family and your recruiting process.

Speaker 2 (17:07):
He's very honest, so you know, and a lot of
people don't believe it's when I tell him, But he
was strictly by the book. I mean you've been asking
mj saym anybody. There was no you know, money or
anything involved. But he'd come in and tell your parents.
He got to know your parents really well. He promised
you three things. She's like, I promise you son and graduated.

(17:31):
If he stayed four years, I promise you that you know,
he'll go to class. And if he's we require you
to go to the church your first semester. And my
mom was sitting over there and I know. I know
when she heard that, she was like, damn, that's where

(17:53):
he's going. But he was really honest and I always
loved him since he bought Charlie Scott was the first
black ACC player to come to the ACC, and Coach
Smith took a lot of heat. They tried to fire him,
They hung him in f g after a game, but

(18:14):
he used to take stands like that. Took Charlie Scott
the church with him, took him to restaurants in sixty
seven where blacks weren't still allowed. So I knew about
him early. I got to go to basketball camp, but
I fell in love with guys like Phil Ford, Walter Davis,
guys like that, you know. So you know, Mitch cup

(18:36):
Check was there, so I was. I was kind of
tied in, locked in from like fifteen years old.

Speaker 6 (18:44):
Is it is it true that he left w UNC
players money for a stake gental when he passed.

Speaker 2 (18:48):
Two hundred dollars. Yeah, every letterman that played for him,
and I think he was like sticking it to the NCAA. Yeah,
I take care of my player. Yeah, find out I'm
to do something, you're not gonna be to do anything
about it. But and then you know, he used to
write personal notes. He'd have his secretary type him up

(19:09):
and then at the bottom it would always be ps
and he would write a few lines. So he had
he had special special touches like that, and a memory
like he wouldn't believe, which was which was sad to
see him have dementia at the end of his life.
But yeah, he had a memory that it was like amazing.

Speaker 6 (19:29):
Everybody talk about MJ's championship shot nineteen eighty three against
Georgetown the championship, but you had twenty eight thirteenth seventeen
from the field. Why don't talk about that? It was
on your shoulders. But what's your take on that? Well,
you did, Joe John.

Speaker 2 (19:45):
You know, if you watch the the Michael Jordan documentary,
it was the Chicago that not the hair movie. I
had a statement, you know, Michael came to Carolina tell
everybody I was I was better than Michael. Yeah, yeah,
you know for about three weeks weeks, for about three weeks, man,

(20:12):
I knew he had it. When you're an athlete and
you guys are both tough, I watched you. I watched
your whole career. You know, when you're when you're tough
and you're not going back down from anybody, and you're
gonna take them on. But then when somebody comes along
that the fuck is tougher than you, they're like, he

(20:32):
was an assassin and he bullied me. He because you know,
he's he sought out the best and everything. If you
were the best backgamming player in the dorm, he wanted
to know. If you were the best card player, he
wanted to find out, and he took everything as if
he was losing a game seven. Losing just wasn't I
didn't care what it was. He'd break a table if

(20:53):
he lost the backgam And so he sought me out,
and you know, we practiced two hours, two and a
half hours. You guys know how to call practice. Are
you ready to get out of there? And he would
I'd be walking off the court and he pushed, where
you're going, young, young fella, that's what he called me.
So you were junior when he was junior freshman year,
and so yeah, you know, he wanted to know and uh,

(21:14):
and throughout that year, even though I was, you know, MVP.
There were some games against Virginia in the ACC tournament
where Michael kept us in the game and some big
shots against you know, Ralph Sampson and those guys. And
then against Georgetown, we only had really five players against

(21:34):
Patrick Ewan and my home boys sleeping floor, and they
were tough. Uh, but Michael hit some big shots and
kept us in, you know, I and then at the
end of the game, Coach Smith wanted me to be
like a decoy, you know. You know, we had we
had lost to Indiana the year before Isaiah Thomas and
Bobby Knight, so getting back was was special and I

(21:58):
wanted to win or lose.

Speaker 6 (22:01):
He'd been punching on Mike. I beat, I beat. I
would always beat Mike. That's yeah, you know Zeke Zeke
fit opinion alone. Man, he had a good career. It
was awesome. Uh.

Speaker 2 (22:17):
But yeah, man, uh, you know, because you know they
expected me to, you know, to take the shot. You know,
we run a high low against their zohn. Patrick Ewhan
was a beast, and I wanted to win and lose.
Because Michael was a freshman. I didn't you know, I
didn't know if he had it in his veins. But uh,
I was to flash in the mill. Coach Smith didn't

(22:38):
call it up like that, but he knew it would
work out that way. We ran our offense properly, So
we ran the high low, Sam went down low, I
flashed in and three guys collapsed and Michael was wide open.
Now he he didn't draw it up like that. But
at the end of the time out, you know, when
you're walking back on the court, Michael was one the

(23:00):
last guys. And I heard Coach Smith kind of if
you get it, if you get it clean, looking knock
at it, you know, you know what I mean. So
and yeah, he knew, he knew Michael had it in
his veins. And yeah, that was the beginning. We called
him Mike, Mike Jordan.

Speaker 5 (23:17):
Kenny said he had no handle when he came to
when he first got there.

Speaker 2 (23:20):
No handles, No, not well, Kenny had him. Uh. After
I left, Kenny still mad at me because I recruited Kenny.
He wanted to play with me and I left after
my junior year. He and Brad Dougherty. But yeah, he
he didn't have a lot of fundamentals when he came.
I think he was a better baseball player coming out
of high school. And you know, you've heard the story

(23:43):
of him getting cut from his high school team once,
so he had a lot to work on. He had
raw talent though, raw talent, but when he got the
fundamentals down after his freshman year and he worked at
it because we had drill after drills after drills. Whatever
his weakness was, he was willing to work on it.

(24:04):
And so I can't remember him having uh I mean,
back then we ran four corners. There wasn't a twenty
four second shot clock his freshman year, so he was
okay in that, but I don't remember him ever having
the ball handling skills that our guard has.

Speaker 5 (24:20):
To possess you n C U n C summer runs.

Speaker 2 (24:26):
Yeah, how was that? Lawrence Taylor played and some of
those football players and Wool and Jim.

Speaker 5 (24:34):
Lawrence Talor was nice.

Speaker 2 (24:36):
Yeah, well Lorene Taylor was a beast. You get the rebound,
you just move out of the way. Yeah, he was coming.
He was coming, but yeah, to pick up games because
a lot of guys from Duke came over. That's seven
miles apart. We oh yeah, yeah, and willand Jim. But
they were like they were like iconic games. You know,

(24:57):
you guys probably faded some of the you know games
over you la, you know, you don't want to You
don't want to lose. So yeah, there was two courts
you always had. But when LT came he was really
good player. But yeah, he was a beast.

Speaker 5 (25:18):
Do you have any stories of anybody just dominating those run.

Speaker 2 (25:21):
I would, you guys trying to remember il would, but
I would play. He was from Macon, Georgia, and in
nineteen eighty one when we lost Sane Anna, we played
Virginia in the semi and he scored thirty seven points.
The brother could shoot man when he got hirt. He
was like Ray Allen or Dale Ellis. Of course, you know,

(25:43):
I only had MJ for about four months, but he
dominated willing like the dunks that he threw down in there.
A point guard. A lot of people don't remember Jimmy Black.
He was from New York. He was our senior point guard.
He was we called at the empty gym theory. You know,
he topped forty five on you in a pickup game game.

(26:06):
Uh and Sam and Sam Perkins, you know Sam Perkins
was Sam Perkins was a beast, a big smooth man.
He was roomy. For a year. We had guys like that,
you know, uh the back you know, Uh, well, guys
like Gene Banks, you know, Vince Taylor, guys like that
would come on from but l t was, he was

(26:28):
the guy Shirch and Skin, Schirch and Skin, Seirch and Skin.

Speaker 6 (26:32):
Is there a better big three in cottage history than
Jordan's Perkins and Worthy?

Speaker 2 (26:38):
Uh? There there there they would be mentioned or honorable
mention because when you think about some of the some
of the the trios that John Wooden had, you know,
Duke pass of some Kentucky. But you know, Sam was

(26:59):
uh a captain of the eighty four one of the
captains of the eighty four Olympic team, and Michael and
you know when you think of Power Forward as the center,
you don't you know, you don't mention Sam that much.
You think of Tim Duncan, Carmelone. You think, but I
would put my boy, and I'm I guess I'm being
a little bit biased, but based on his performance and

(27:21):
what he could do, I would say, we would we
we could, We could play with anybody, no question. You
know Kareem without you know back in the day with
Lucius Allen and some of those guys, they were but
Big Sam could go inside and out and he had
to play Ralf Samson and Sam four a lot. Sam.
You know he played against Sam Bouie. He held his

(27:42):
own and then of course you know m J so, yeah,
i'd be I'd be will him to me too, An
put a little money on that.

Speaker 3 (27:54):
Uh, you leave after your junior year. Lakers win a
championship in eighty two and get a first pick due
to a Calves traded me there a few years ago,
before any any good pre draft stories. The top three
in that draft for yourself, Dominique Wilkers, and Terry Cummings.

Speaker 2 (28:10):
Yeah. Man, it was all depending on what Ralph Samson
was going to do. If Ralph Samson had come out,
that mean Rap would have gone first, Dominique probably would
have gone second. Terry Cummins was a beast, and then
I would have I don't know where I would have landed,
maybe maybe even lower. So I would have stayed. But

(28:33):
I knew Jerry West if Raft didn't come, I knew
he was interested in me because the Lakers had won
two out of three championships already. They had Jamal Wilkes,
Pod McAdoo, you know, Kareem Magic, Norm Nixon. They didn't
need a human highlighte man, what they needed was somebody

(28:54):
was going to come in and you know, maybe not start,
which was unusual for number one a draft pick, and
so they needed you know, I guess they were looking
for someone disciplined. Dean's boys were known for that. So
when Ralph stayed, I knew I would be the number
one pick based on some conversations that I've had with

(29:16):
and so yeah, I man, that was that was that
was That was awesome.

Speaker 6 (29:21):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (29:22):
But I remember being kind of not arrogant. I was
kind of full of myself because I thought I was
pretty good. So I walked into training camp and I'm
looking around. You know, it's Kareem Magic, you know, as
Jamal wilk was still still high because I was looking
for a spot. You know, I'm like, fuck this, I'm

(29:43):
starting this year Norm Nixon, you know. Sudden at the
corner of mine, see Kurt Ramis come in. I had
on these coke bottled glasses tape in the middle. He
had all these apparatuses on his ship. He smelled like

(30:05):
bend gay shitt. He ruther all this. He had this
cream called four or five four back in the day.
It's like horse on me. Shit. He had all that shit.
I was faster. I was quick. So we started practice.
Now I think power forward in college. Kirk was a
power forward in the NBA. We started practice and within

(30:26):
twenty minutes he beat the living shit out of me.
He let me know what a real what the NBA
power forward was. And I wasn't ready for that. I
didn't really have a jumper. I was known for quick, inside, smooth,
so but and that was his territory. I had to
operate down and there where he lived. And when you

(30:49):
got down in there, he was like, Okay, he's the
reason I ain't got a jump shot.

Speaker 5 (30:55):
Really yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:56):
I couldn't handle it, and I couldn't handle other power forwards.
It was different. That's why power forwards and college used
to go down there. You know, you go down and
so it was tough then with Kurt McHale and Lonnie
Shelton and any car I remember a lot of old heads.
You know, they didn't mess around. And so I had
to go sit down for a second. And you know,

(31:19):
I started looking at Jamal and I'm saying, all right, Jamal,
you got you got an ex on your back. But
that's a story I had. And then you know, man,
it was shiitball crazy in the eighties. Man, it was like,
you know, it was just crazy. You know, the hotels,
the lifestyle. I'm glad, I'm really glad. It wasn't like

(31:40):
a social media wow going on. It was just crazy,
you know, it was you know, it was uh, it
was just crazy and and it was it was it
was fun, but it was dangerous and it was uh,
it was just free for all. Talk about the fandom.

Speaker 3 (31:55):
I mean, you're coming from North Carolina. You're in Hollywood now,
you know, you're coming on one of the best teams.
You know, arguably the greatest players of all time. You know,
this Showtime team is not only known for being great
on the court, but being great off the court as well. Yeah,
so you were coming into a lot of different moving parts.

Speaker 2 (32:13):
Well, for a country boy like me who only had
two girlfriends, it forced me to get married because I
was out here for a couple of years alone and
it was it was a death wish I couldn't have one. Yeah.
And you know, on a serious note, you know, if

(32:34):
you if if you're not absolutely sure who you are,
and it should be a process that you go through.
You should not be in a seriously committed relationship or
get married. It's okay to have a committed relationship. I
take that back, but marriage is tough. You know. I

(32:58):
went through my entire twenties internalizing, and you know, I
didn't want to. I didn't really want to. I was,
you know, brought up in the church. My mom, my
dad was a minister, and so I didn't want to
go to the strip clubs. You know, I was trying
to be loyal to my wife. But all the you know,

(33:20):
the uncertainty and all the internalization, you know, caused me
to like start to use escort service because I wanted
I wanted some sex, and I wanted to be told
I was handsome. And there was a lot of things
that you that you that you exploring your own mind.

(33:40):
You make up all these excuses for you for yourself.
You know, a lot of guys turn to drugs. So yeah,
it's it's it's the athlete. You know on one side
that you see you know who you who, who's who's
a badass and he's you know, in public and he's
dunking that. But then when you're sitting in a hotel

(34:03):
room by yourself, and then your real shit comes. So
you got that winning formula over here that works for you,
and it keeps you alivee you know, it keeps you going,
It gets you work, it gets your jobs, it makes
people like you. You you're surviving with the winning formula.
But then when you get back over here, you realize

(34:25):
that you hate that over there, and so then you
start dealing with that and and so then it comes
out some kind of way. So yeah, I think you
really have to have good mentor somebody that you can
listen to, because because you know, when you when you
become twenty twenty one and you run into all this

(34:47):
fame and fortune and money and craziness. Like my best
friend was a doctor or is a doctor, and so
what he was doing at twenty was when he got
out of college twenty one, he's finding a roommate, you know,
to live in an apartment with, you know, find them

(35:09):
a nice used toyota, you know, to kind of and
then it took him till he was thirties until he
got any money. And then he had a bunch of
money to pay back. But he had a real stage
of life. You know, people have real stage. They have
to go out and get a real job and live
a real they're not famous, so you really got to

(35:32):
check yourself. Man, when you're an athlete, you know, most
of the time, I'm gonna say most of the time.
Some of the time the women that we do get
are not for the real the real deal. They you know,
because they're they're looking for popularity too, they're looking so

(35:52):
sometimes it's just, uh, it's just something you got to
check yourself with. Man. I'm I'm writing a book. I'm
not promoting it yet, but I'm going to write a book.
I'm gonna talk about not so much the exs and
o's in my career, but you know, the mental state
that we go through. And there's no excuses, but it is.
It is a hard barrier unless you've been through it. Yeah,

(36:15):
it's hard for people to grasp it. Yes, like you
can have whatever you want. What are you complaining about?
It's deeper than that. It's deeper than that. And you know,
I think the more we talk about it, the more
we explain it, people would be like, oh, yeah.

Speaker 5 (36:29):
I met a lot of women that was good. That
was good for me, I mean good to me, but
it wasn't good for me.

Speaker 2 (36:35):
Yeah, man, but we live and learn.

Speaker 3 (36:38):
Yeah, what would you guys popularity like back then though,
from city to city. I mean, you guys are magic.
Kareem yourself, you made a name for yourself very quick
in the league. But what was the fandom like? Because
it is obviously pre social media. You'll get a glance
of you on TV and maybe in the paper, but
that's the only real way unless they see you, guys
in person.

Speaker 2 (36:54):
It was it was crazy because you couldn't get a ticket.
You showed up at the hotel. You knew, you know
what hotel. It was easy to find out what hotel
were staying in. And back then, you know, we were
hit the clubs. You know, guys were going to night club.
So it was magic. I mean we had one player
that was, you know, very popular. Kareem was very quiet.

(37:18):
I was I was more toard Kareem pretty much. But
you know I had my two's a fuse. You know,
we might go out and enjoy, enjoy the popularity and
hang with the guys. We went to the movies a lot.
We always was like a magnet, you know, wherever you
see four or five players. But back then, all the
teams like you know, Troy Boston, you get the airport

(37:41):
running and then when you get to that hotel, man,
they that's where it all was. And the lobbies. A
lot of people got rooms in the same hotel you
stayed in, and it was you know, it was there
was there was some you know, experts in there, there
was some con artists in there. It was everything dangerous
and fun at the same time. You know, the NBA,
you know, they knew all the you know, they knew

(38:05):
as you guys know, they know all the tickets are
and a lot of times, you know, like one team
would come in and give their tickets to whomever, and
so you know, the next team would come in maybe
a couple of nights later, and so that section is
the same for the visiting team. Sometimes it'd be the

(38:27):
same faces, you know what I mean, same people and
so yeah, yeah, so the NBA, you know, they start
investigating that kind of stuff. But you have to be what.

Speaker 3 (38:39):
Was it like when you get into the league. I mean,
cigarettes in the locker room, commercial flights, Yeah, it was.
It was too black, it was drug filled. I mean,
the league obviously came a long way, you know, and
you were part of the movement as a transition from
something that wasn't very marketable to being a very marketable sport.

Speaker 2 (38:59):
Yeah, I just wanted to play in the NBA. I
had no idea in eighty two that the image was
still lacking. You know, a lot of cocaine, you know,
from the seventies, from the ABA merging up into the seventies.
They had no drug policy, It had no TV contract.

(39:20):
A lot of teams you couldn't even you didn't even
know where they were playing. There was a lot of
you know, talk about you know, too many black players.
There's an article about the New York you know, Knickerbockers.
You can you can pick up it's it's in Google.
You can find out what they used to call them.
So O'Brien only had him for one year before Commissioner

(39:46):
Stern came in and to commission Stearn's credit. You know,
he had a vision and the vision was to clean
up the league, which thank god, everyone needed that, to
have a drug policy where guys could you know, reconcile
with themselves. Also, television was big. He started to create television.

(40:08):
He had a rivalry with Boston and the Lakers with
Magic and Bird. He had that rivalry, you know. So
the drug policy cleaned a lot of stuff up. You know,
teams started to organize better, you know, as far as
getting television rights, and doctor Buss was very innovative as

(40:31):
far as helping them with television contracts. And he was
the first one to get signature on an arena. I
think it was fifty million. He got the Great Western
for him back in the eighties, and I think Crypto
was seven hundred million. To see how it's evolved, So
they started to you know, employ international players a little

(40:53):
bit more, not as much as they are now, but
the game became more global and it cleaned itself up. Uh.
And then the Boston Laker rivalries in the eighties really
helped sustain that. But not only that, man, you had
you know, your Dallas Mavericks. You you had Utah with Malone.

(41:14):
You had you know, artist Gilmore and you know Ice
Gerlin and San Antonio, Philadelphia with Doc and you know
Mo Cheeks and those guys, and you had Milwaukee with
Mincrief and so the talent was was was good, the
parody was good. It was just unfortunate. Well it's fortunate
for us that you know, it was always the Lakers

(41:37):
and the Celtics until Philly won a couple early in
Detroit came. But yeah, it was it was. It was
poor in the early eighties. You know, we flew around
on commercial you know, a lot of guys don't even
know where Eastern Caroline is. You know, diet was you know,
we had one trainer that did everything. We practiced at

(42:01):
Loyola Mariama, but sometimes we wake up and we'd have
to practice at the Inglewood. Why. It was just it
was just crazy. So that's where that started.

Speaker 6 (42:09):
That's why when we used to come play the Lakers,
we used to practice that long and my long.

Speaker 2 (42:13):
Yeah, definite practice. The practiced at Loyola Mariamo. And uh,
you know sometimes we you know, the weather would be
bad and we'd have a flight delay. You know, back
to back games back then you had you had to
catch the first possible fight out the next morning in
order to get to the city. We had a Atlanta,
we had an ice storm, and we didn't get to

(42:35):
Indiana till like five point thirty or seven seven o'clock game.
So it was a lot of a lot of stuff
like that, you know, a lot of a lot of
hot dogs with relish and beer at eight o'clock in
the morning. You know, you know, no diet, but it was,
it was, it was, it was. It was great. Yeah,
it was awesome.

Speaker 3 (42:55):
You really spoken kind of being bullied when you first
got to the Lakers to take you to kind of
find your footing and start earning your respect amongst that team.

Speaker 2 (43:04):
You know, it took about half a season. You know.
I started to really jail around March, and I was
I was playing you know, I don't know, anywhere from
eighteen to twenty minutes, average about thirteen points, and started
to jail with magic as far as running the lane

(43:30):
was concerned. So but that was also after about forty
games because as you guys know, you know, you get
to about thirty two games, thirty five the most you've
ever played in college, and your body's like, wait, wait
a minute, what the hell are you doing a little
You got fifty more to play. So I did hit

(43:50):
that wall. But once I got the second win and
got the knowledge and knew how to travel, knew how
to rest, I was ready around April April, in the March. Unfortunately,
I broke my leg and missed the playoffs that Yeah,
but it took it took me about about five six months.

Speaker 3 (44:10):
What was the dynamic like between Magic and Kareem. I
mean you hear stuff. You know obviously you were there.
What was their dynamic?

Speaker 2 (44:16):
Like, Man, Kareem's one of the misunderstood people and athletes
that I know now. He's taken responsibility for his personality
and how he was somewhat of an introvert and not
always you know, compatible with what he needed to do

(44:37):
to be nice to people all the time. But he
understood the magic came that Magic had the personality and
the game to lead. You know, Kareem was not a
verbal guy. He led by example, so he allowed you know,
he let Magic take over. And from what I saw
my nineteen years together, they had a great relationship. Kareem

(45:00):
was just mellow. He's wanted to play and do his job.
I don't think there was ever any beef at all
from what I saw. If it was, they took it upstairs.
But that was the thing with our team. We you know,
we didn't have you know, we we knew how to
monitor each other. Most guys knew their roles. You know,

(45:21):
when you got Kareem Jamal coming from John Wooden, you know,
you got myself, Mitch cup Chack from Dean Smith, You've
got guys coming from good programs. Judd, Heachcoh Magic from
Michigan State. Pat Rowley played for a play for Adolph Rupp,

(45:41):
which was a weird experience, you know, the race simms
that was going on with that team. So we had
guys that knew how to get over themselves and also
knew how to get out of trouble when we got
in trouble. So it was because we wanted to win.

Speaker 3 (45:57):
How good was Magic Johnson during his time cut short
for a few different few different times, but just the
body of work when he was out there playing his desk.

Speaker 2 (46:07):
Yeah, still to this day, if I had to pick
one player, like if I got to pick five and
they said we're gonna pick first, a yeah, because his
his his ability to make you win, not to will
will he gonna wiel some wins, but this makes you

(46:29):
so much better. And his his fight and his face
and his cheering you on doing the game and doing practice.
Then his performance at six ' nine when he was humming, yeah,
he's gonna find a way to win. He's gonna find
a way to win. So he was amazing man, Like

(46:52):
I remember trying to impress him first couple of weeks
of practice. I'm gonna show him how fast I can
hit the corner, hit the lane so you know, half court,
and then I make my angle in and fall. You know,
I'm not ready for it. You know, he said you
better be looking sun, you know, so he could get

(47:13):
it to you from anywhere on the basketball court. And
when he you know, he could take a snapshot from
eighty feet away and calculate your steps without looking like
he could get it and to take a snapshot and
then he's just starting then. Uh. And then his height
really made it difficult to the fan. Like when Magic retired.

(47:38):
I thought I was pretty good until Magic retired and
then we got todeal three that then, you know, and
day three couldn't see nothing over the top. So I was,
I was missing opportunities. I was like, why it open,
I'll be like Magic. So yeah, he was, he was,
he was. He was an amazing player, man, And uh yeah,

(48:00):
ye speak to how great he was. His body of work,
including college both academically and you know, three championships at
UCLA when freshmen couldn't play varsity you're forced to play JV.

(48:21):
And I know Matt knows the story There was an
interest squad game against the JV team in John Wooden's
nineteen seventy or one of his national championship teams, and
Kareem the JV team beat them. Couldn't come out of

(48:41):
high school. Now I had Kareem been able to come
out of high school, the record may not ever be broken.
But poetry in motion was the skyhook. I was on
the other side of the block, and I was amazed.
Sometimes I can myself spectating and not going for the

(49:02):
offensive rebound because it was so special. It was more
than just rolling there throwing the hook. It was it
was the eyes, it was the pump fake, and it
was like a triple jumping track. It was a lot
to it. And by the time he got into it,
if you could get through this left without getting your

(49:24):
face reconstructed, you know, because it was up there. I mean,
you know he I think he made one three so career.
So he was he went through many decades. You know.
I saw him as a kid playing against the west
Son Sale and Nate Thurman, and then he went through
the next decade. Then he went through you know, Keem

(49:44):
Olaijuan and Patrick Ewing. Then he kept doing it. Until
around eighty eight eighty seven. But yeah, Kareem was his
whole body at work and smart as a whip. I
was short after my junior year, about fifteen hours so
I was taking a history course, black history course, and

(50:05):
I was taking some independent courses out of USC really,
and I was sitting on the bus and he saw
what I was studying. It was something about the dred
Scott Law, the Missouri compromise with some blacks. He saw it.
He just starts said, yeah, eighteen ninety. He started nighting

(50:25):
off these dates and without any notes or anything because
he was a history major. And I said, damn, there's
my tutor right there. We just had discussions and he
turned me on the jazz. It's just you get to
know him, which I'm sure you guys have talked to him.
You get to know him, and he's reconciled with himself.
He's realized his downside. But Kareem was one of my

(50:50):
best friends and his good brother.

Speaker 3 (50:52):
Your introduction to the Forum Club.

Speaker 2 (50:56):
Woo mano man, my rookie year wall. First time I
went in the Farm Club and I saw Ola Ray.
If you guys remember who, Old Ray was the first
black woman and Playboy, and I think she was also
in Michael Jackson's Thriller. But I saw her and lost

(51:21):
my mind. It was just so beautiful in there. Beautiful people,
beautiful women, and it was like Doctor Buss's you know,
Playboy match. He had his corner over there, and it
was always, you know, you always wanted to see what
was going on in there. But I had a couple
of friends of mine that worked for the Atlanta but

(51:44):
Delta in Atlanta, and they would always catch a plane.
I get them tickets to the game. They would catch
a plane with the three hour difference, they getting it
right around game time, and I'd be looking for me,
you know, because I knew where their seats were. They
wouldn't touch their seats. They'd go to the Farm Club
at the bar and get there and sit until halftime,

(52:06):
and they would just go crazy because the stars were
they were in there and a lot of a lot
of beautiful people. And then they would stay there till
around eleven thirty twelve, and back then you would get
a red eye back at like one am, and they
catch the red eye back in Atlanta. Quick business trip.
But yeah, the Farm Club was like you didn't have
to leave the farm, you know, because it was right

(52:30):
there till closing time. It was it was nice.

Speaker 5 (52:35):
We played. We played their preseason game with Don Nelson.

Speaker 6 (52:40):
Remember he said when we was walking, He's like, if
y'all could be a fly on the wall back when
I was playing and my.

Speaker 2 (52:46):
Dad until Nelson he was talking about. It's funny, man.
I was in Maui a couple of years ago and
I was in the pro shop and I saw this
guy with long white hair, Donnie fucking bare feet, you know, hippie. Yeah,

(53:12):
because he was my last All Star coach in nineteen
ninety two. I was like, I was a coach. I
was like, man, you need to give me some of
that whatever you got man.

Speaker 3 (53:23):
Nelly good?

Speaker 2 (53:25):
Yeah, man, that it was good. I think Willie Nelson
was over there with you went on the golf cour
That's the guy they be playing poker. Yeah, but coach
Nelson's you know, I never got to play for him,
but I always always thought it was pretty cool.

Speaker 6 (53:38):
Speak on the brilliant mind and how great Pat Rowley is.

Speaker 2 (53:44):
Yeah, pat Rally man, uh, you know from conversations with him,
and you know you talk about cycles, his you know,
relationship with his dad was tired, and then he used
that to energize himself, you know, going to Kentucky, being

(54:09):
drafted by the Dallas Cowboys out of college as well. Uh,
he was always felt like, you know, he had to
do more and be more, and so his preparation was
second to none, like his his his his work ethic
as a coach was so prepared and it was so analytical.

(54:37):
Uh that you you were ready, and he would push
you to the point where you want to fight him,
and then the truth would be like right there too,
and you have to deal with that. He knew personalities,
like he knew how to push you like, you know, Byron,

(54:57):
I don't know, Well, you haven't hit anything worthy, You're worthless.
You know. He knew what to say, you know, to
certain people. Magic.

Speaker 5 (55:05):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (55:05):
There's nothing mystical about you. I don't know what's going on, Kareem.
What would you like to do? You know? So he
knew how to push people, and but preparation and practice
and he didn't delay his There wasn't any like delaying
his you know, communication with it was it was going on.

Speaker 5 (55:29):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (55:29):
So, yeah, he was he was tough. He was he
was a tough coach and we won. We want with
your numbers always went up in the playoffs. That's how
you got big game James.

Speaker 2 (55:40):
I think so to Hern realized, you know, in the
regular season, as you guys know, when you like, I
remember playing Larry Bird on a Tuesday night, got over
to Philly, I'm sorry, got over to New York Wednesday night.
Only they have Banard King waiting for you. You know

(56:05):
I'd already had Larry back to back. Yeah, didn't have
Banara King. Take a night off, and then following night
you go to Philly. You got Doc and Bobby Jones.
So regular season you hop around. You know, it's not
the same. Playoffs. You got one team for seven games

(56:31):
and you have less travel, so you get to lock in.
Whoever locks in the most is going to be the one.
So if you lock in too, like I knew, I
had to play Clyde Drexler. I knew because we didn't
want Magic playing point guards. They wear them down. You know,
we needed him, So I lock in video after video,
well Beta Max back then DHR. But you lock in Man,

(56:56):
and you know that's all you got. Jrome Cursey, you
know who you got. You just lock in and you're ready.
You know, there's some tendencies. Then you just work on
your game, man, and you know, ship you should. Everybody's
numbers should go up. Yeah. Play you get the playing.

Speaker 6 (57:14):
Time, you made the cost and play in eighty four
finals because the self bad pass left the self supports
and overtime and winning the game.

Speaker 5 (57:21):
Yeah, take us back at that.

Speaker 2 (57:23):
Moment as you as you talk about it, I feel
it like it never goes away. It was away.

Speaker 4 (57:30):
Man.

Speaker 2 (57:32):
That was my fourth championship. So when they say how
Mania got, it's it's cool to say three, but I
mean that was it.

Speaker 5 (57:38):
It was on the doorstep.

Speaker 2 (57:40):
I had injured myself there before. I had no playoff experience,
and you know, I had played very well up until
that series. I've been to Boston, playing in the old
Boston Garden. You know. Uh, I got a little rattle
because we had already gone in and one game one,

(58:02):
we'd already achieved. What we needed to do was split.
But man, we had that. We had that game, and
so we got the ball out of bounds. Magic wanted
to get it in really quick, like throw it in
and get so it was so so I was like,
ROUSE didn't know what to call a timeout. Do we
want to time out? So Magic got it in and

(58:24):
so we're in the back court. So I'm panicking a
little bit because you know they're coming there doubling. I
need to get rid of it. So I see Byron
so boom. Now soon as I let it go my
peripheral vision, I see this green jersey coming and it's
it slows down in your mind. It still slows down.

(58:46):
I see it. I was like, oh shit, and he
gets it, okay, but now he's got to come to me.
So I got to go to angle and I go
up and I sometime I wake up in the middle
of that. I because I can still feel I can
still feel, you know, the wind and the ball go
right over two hits. Two retire a game. But you

(59:08):
didn't foul it. I didn't found it. You didn't I
tried to go for the block. I was still I
was still, you know, trying to feel I could get
to it. But now, if i'd had a chance to
get it, maybe I should have. But the way they
were following us, but I had no experience. Uh. I
was kind of panicking in the you know, in the
last minute, in the last thirty seconds, there and that's

(59:30):
the one that that's the one that that's the one
that that I still think about to this day, just
like it got away.

Speaker 3 (59:39):
Speak to the physicality of the game back then, because
now you touch someone and it's up. But you guys
really used to be able to It was men playing
back then.

Speaker 6 (59:49):
I got a couple of highlights and you're getting off
the floor.

Speaker 2 (59:52):
Yeah, throwing them. Yeah. My biggest regret was getting in
Kurt Rams's way when he when he got clothes line,
because I was, you know, there was a lot of
shit going on. I was like, what's going on? And
I saw something coming and I got kirted away. But
the physicality back then was you could touch them. You
could touch the brother up. You know, like if you

(01:00:12):
set of picking the lane somebody's coming coming on, you
could you can you can literally stand them up and
uh like I remember Kurt Ramits getting clothes line. That
was Michael. It was just two shots, crazy.

Speaker 3 (01:00:28):
Rights showed them back hit the ground.

Speaker 2 (01:00:33):
That's what three or four games now might get arrested,
but but yeah, it was, it was. It was born
out of the seventies, you know, when it was you know,
it was mostly half court, not a lot of running
teams except the A B A. Doc and George Beginnings
and you know Ice and those guys they ran in

(01:00:53):
the A B. A. But it was, you know, predicated
on half court sets. The coach was always calling the plays.
There was a lot of control, so you had specific
players you wanted to get to and so to do
that you had to set up cross pick for Carl Malone,
a down pick for Dale Ellis or whoever the shoot
it was. So it was more control. Now it's just

(01:01:17):
you know, it's it's there's no play calling, it's emotion.
So you had a lot of time to slow down
and then you had a lot of champ think about
how you're going to defend that, and the way to
defend it is to slow him down with a boom
with a chance. And then there were there were some
games where there was a rule where no no freebies,
no free lay ups. We had we had take files

(01:01:39):
you know, you want to take John Stounton used to
set a dirty pick early for Carl Malone. He'd get
up under you and you know, get it, ahol. So
we had one rule that we could waste one early
on him, let him know take yeah, you know, you
are here, he come, you know, and you try to
go for his throat, you know, try to you know,
get one. So yeah, but yeah, it was it was

(01:02:00):
it was physical, It was tough.

Speaker 6 (01:02:02):
Man Championships in eighty five, eighty seven, and nineteen eighty eight.
You shot fifty percent in all three finals. Twenty points
some more. Boston ninety five, I mean, exkip Boston eighty five,

(01:02:22):
Boston eighty seven or Detroit eighty eight?

Speaker 5 (01:02:25):
Which was your favorite championship?

Speaker 2 (01:02:28):
I'm gonna have to say eighty five because the Lakers
had never won. I guess the self. Jerry Wells, will chamblain,
all those guys, Elgum Baylor, they lost seven to Bill
Russell and Hevli Chak, Casey Jones. So and the fact

(01:02:48):
that we lost that one in eighty four, I really
thought there was some type of leprechaun or something in Boston.
But that one was because we not only represented ourselves,
we represented all those misery nights that the Laker fans
had to deal with, had to you know, hear all
that trash. So I think eighty five personally eighty eight. Uh,

(01:03:12):
not only it was my personal best, but it was
a back to back year something had been done. And
you know, yeah, yeah one and only triple double. Kareem
was still with us, but he wasn't dominating like he
was in eighty seven. Magic was MVP of the league.
You know, pat Rally had asked him to do a

(01:03:32):
little bit more. So I just felt like, okay, young
younger Kareem wasn't dominated, So it was you know, it
was time to it was time for me to, you know,
step up.

Speaker 5 (01:03:44):
What's your take on Boston fans where they unruly back then?

Speaker 2 (01:03:48):
Buncle lived in Boston the sixties. Man, it was racist
as hell. Yeah, and from what I understand, you know,
we used to go through some some of that. You know,
you you turned you know, we uld get to the
Copley End and and you know you actually operated to
turn your phone on, but she never did. You know

(01:04:09):
you'd be getting calls. You have to plug your phone
and people would say some some some crazy stuff on
the phone. And uh, I know through baseball, like some
of the outfielders you know in Boston, it still exists.
It was a tough place to play. They love their fans,
they love their their their their teams. I give them
credit for that. I love playing in Boston because I

(01:04:31):
just just love playing there because I hated Boston, hated it.
I hated it, you know. And I'm sure all people
aren't like that in Boston, but I had some friends
that with the college that lived there, so sometimes I
would go into the neighborhood and so yeah, and back
then the old Boston Garden, you had a choice to either.

(01:04:54):
Usually in traffic, you know game seven thirty eight o'clock,
you had a choice to go around in the city.
Had to go all the way around the city forty
minutes to get all the way around to this ramp,
this wooden ramp, and you could go that way if
you wanted privacy. All do you take ten minutes and
they drop you off right with us. The subway people

(01:05:15):
get off the bus, so you're merging with the fans.
No bodyguards, no nothing. We just and there was a
special elevator for us right here, and then the fans
went that way. But as you were waiting for the elevator,
they would just give it to you. I love it
because that was just my incentive. That was my incentant.

(01:05:36):
But Bob McAdoo, you know, you have me listened to
the Malcolm X takes before the game. Yeah, you'd be ready,
you'd be ready then. So yeah, but you know, Bossoon
great town, I guess if you lived there. But I
hated Boston. I don't. I don't care to really visit.
I'm good. It was Larry Bird. It was damn good.

(01:06:00):
He was good.

Speaker 3 (01:06:01):
H You had a quote not to cut you off
that Jordan made you look slow, Larry made you look dumb.

Speaker 2 (01:06:06):
Yeah, yeah, man, Yeah, Jordan. Jordan was an amazing you know,
not not and both of them worked just as hard.
But Larry didn't have the speed, couldn't jump, but a
shoot he could work. He was a big, strong, beautiful
pusser type player and he had a lot of skills.

(01:06:27):
He could pass. He was ambidextrious, and you had to
you had to be like on him. You couldn't get
him any space. And when he got high, it didn't
matter if he was on him or not. Yeah. Yeah,
he talked ship all the time, you know. He tell
you now, I didn't get a lot of it because
he didn't, you know, because I could give it back,

(01:06:49):
you know, he didn't. And you know I guarded him
half the game that we have Michael Coop on him.
But there were times when he would tell you what
he's going to do. You know it's coming, you know
it's coming.

Speaker 6 (01:07:02):
What'd you think when he played that game left handed
and had forty with his left hand.

Speaker 2 (01:07:07):
Well he's left handed, he right, he's a rights right hand.
I wasn't surprised. But that's who he is. And he
predicted it.

Speaker 5 (01:07:14):
And said it. That's what's crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:07:16):
He used to come in the All Star Game three
point contests right before he started. He come in and
look at everybody and say, which one of you guys
coming in second place? You know, the one of the
worst ones, man, And this is this is Larry White,

(01:07:36):
guy from french Linco, Indiana, you know. And I heard
he's done this to other teams too. But we had
a guy on our team, Mark Landsberg, I think it
was so we market the game and he's gonna guard
Larry and so it was a free throw. So Larry
was down near our bench and uh, he says, man,

(01:08:02):
that's you got that's an insult. But you guys just
dead to me. What you mean that's an insult? He says,
you guys put a white ball on me. So that's
that's that's who he was man he went. Then he
went just eighties ass something and you look at up

(01:08:23):
totally so he but he should do that. Anytime you
put anytime that happened, what every team, he would always say,
that's an insult. But he was. He was tough. He
was tough, he was nasty physical. Oh yeah, I didn't
really I didn't really like it.

Speaker 3 (01:08:43):
Late eighties. Your guys' dynasty run comes to an end.
You get swept by the Pistons in eighty nine, did
you guys know, did you think there was an opportunity
to get back? Guys were getting a little bit older,
and how good was that Detroit team?

Speaker 2 (01:08:57):
The Detroit team was good in eighty eight when we
when we won, they were tough, so we knew coming back,
and yeah we knew in eighty nine we were undefeated
to that series. We swept everybody, Denver, Dallas, I believe,
San Antonio. Maybe I can't remember who we played, but
we were waiting for them and we had like seven

(01:09:20):
days off back then television control when the playoffs started
and Detruit was still playing in their finals Chicago or
or maybe Boston. But Ralph took us to Santa Barbara
because he didn't want us to have seven days off
in La In and so we went to Santa Barbara

(01:09:43):
and a couple of guys got hurt, Magic got hurt.
Byron I had an ankle injury that got worse. But
we just weren't healthy. And even if we were detruit
was still they were good. Yeah, they were good, and
you know they were isaas frain his ankle in eighty eight.

(01:10:06):
I'm not saying that they would have won, but that
that hurt them in Game seven. But they were a defensive,
tough team and the guy that guarded me the best
they could slow me down was Dennis. So they were good.
Kareem was not that much of a factor in eighty

(01:10:27):
nine and we really hadn't made any significant changes to
our team. I think we picked up Orland Awards Tony
Campbell from Detroit, Rivers from Notre Dame, so you know,
we were injured, We didn't really have enough experience. Really

(01:10:47):
took him bat with them, and they were just they
were just too good.

Speaker 3 (01:10:50):
To you spoke to someone who had, you know, did
a fairly good job of slowing you down. Dennis Robin,
what kind of player was he in that time?

Speaker 2 (01:10:57):
He was bad man Dennis was a machine Uh in Detroit,
he was a machine man. He could guard anybody on
the floor.

Speaker 3 (01:11:07):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:11:07):
He had the psychological games. He get in your head,
like you know, before the game, you give a depth.
He squeezed my ass a little too. It wasn't like
what's up. It wasn't like let's go. It was I
was so now you're thinking, you running down the court,

(01:11:33):
you know, thinking about this motherfucker. Why he getting every
fucking offensive rebound there is because he knew how to,
you know, get physical and play, you know and flying
and he was. But his footspeed matched mine. So all
my little quick ship was so you had to be ready.
But I was ready. I was ready. But but yeah,

(01:11:54):
Dennis was. People.

Speaker 3 (01:11:56):
Do you consider that that that Bad Boys team? Was
that a dynasty? I just I just know them for
winning two championships.

Speaker 5 (01:12:08):
That's that's that's and that's not a dynasty of me.

Speaker 2 (01:12:12):
So you know, Golden State dynasty, Lakers, Boston, San Antonio, Chicago.
But no, I mean they want, they want to and
that's Uh. Isaiah Thomas is he underrated? Yeah? I'm picking
him after Magic. Oh yeah, oh yeah, I don't don't

(01:12:36):
don't get it. Twisted. Now, don't don't get it twisted, Isaiah.
I'm picking him after Magic Yeah, and uh, because uh,
this Zeke was the truth. I mean, he could give
it to you however you wanted it. On both ends.
He was. It was tough out of Chicago, so you know,
I don't you know, I didn't really know it personally

(01:12:57):
like like personality, I don't really care about that. But
as a player, oh yeah, he's coming, no doubt. Definitely.

Speaker 3 (01:13:08):
The eighties really brought the game back to life. Stack
Decade yourself, Magic Bird, Jordan, Isaiah Barkley, Elijah Want when
you look back on that, where do you kind of
rank that era of basketball?

Speaker 2 (01:13:23):
Well, the seventies, you know, the A B A, the
NBA finally realized that we you know, doctor j Needham, Yeah,
Ice Garbin, that was that. I would have to say
the eighties and I know that, you know, the Lakers won,
the Chicago won three in a row. But the emergence

(01:13:46):
of the NBA again, I think happened in the eighties
because there were so many good teams in addition to
Boston and in LA uh and the players, Magic Ring
Isaiah byrd McHale. You know, you know, Dennis Johnson was amazing,

(01:14:07):
you know, Sidney mindcree. You know, there was a plethora
of like just amazing great players during that time that
I had to say. The way they merged out of
the seventies and gave the NBA life, it kind of
breathed life back into the NBA. So for me, and

(01:14:28):
I'm being a little bit biased, but I think that was.
It gave life to Shaq and Kobe and even Michael.
Even MJ had to pay his dues to really, so
I think, yeah, it was, it was. It was a
good era. And then you know, television, the salaries began
to emerge in the late eighties. You know, I tell

(01:14:49):
people all the time, I was the number one draft
pick in eighty two, you know, four hundred and seventy
five thousand, that was. And I had veterans coming up
to me who have been in the league seven or
eight years saying, how the hell you getting four hundred
and seventy five thousand dollars? You know, but I play
for that Now I can't find a job. I mean

(01:15:10):
you can. But but just to show you that the
eighties propelled into salaries contracts, the balloon payment, all that
kind of stuff. Yeah, yeah, Collector Barton Agreement, beginning to
be more focused on what the players were getting. You know,
as a retired player, I'm getting full coverage insurance now

(01:15:31):
because of you know, the way that you guys thought about,
you know, what the league needs, and so yeah, it's
it's but the eighties started a lot of we never
we never strike. We were close a couple of times.
But so it's good.

Speaker 6 (01:15:48):
That's one thing that the league got right. Took care
of the older players and everybody's insurance. Not that's one
thing they did get right.

Speaker 2 (01:15:55):
They did unlike you know, unfortunately the NFL, because when
you think of guys like Bill Russell, Algum Baylor, uh,
you know, all those guys, even even Bob Cousy and
Tommy Hysen was very critical to starting the Players Association
to get rights for us. Uh. And so yeah, I
mean and you know, they played, you know, they played

(01:16:17):
in the sixties. They were they were pretty good, you know,
and they definitely deserve to have some some medical you know, uh,
some medical care for for the contributions that they made.
They kind of started. They did Busher Oh, I mean
Bob Pettitt I Petted was a scoring machine, and you know,
you do your little history, there's guys that stood for
something and really, you know, uh left us something to

(01:16:39):
work with.

Speaker 3 (01:16:41):
But the eighties being the physical league, it was do
you feel, God, how do you feel? Guys like Steph Lebron,
maybe even Giannis would affaired in that type of physicality
and that kind of grind type league.

Speaker 2 (01:16:54):
It would have been a slight difference. The way Steph
can shoot. I think he you know, the way he
moves without the ball. I think he could survive to
have to guard Magic on the other end, because we
looked for matchups. You know, we put a lineup where
he's going to have to guard me or Magic or
you know, our A C. Green or somebody like that,

(01:17:16):
who would get offensive rebounds. So I think the defensive
issue would be a little bit different. And I you know,
I remember when the league took away the handcheck and
moved the three point line in a little bit because
guys were coming out of college a little bit more,
you know, frequently without having all the fundamentals. But you know,

(01:17:37):
we're talking about defensive specialist like Sidney mind Cree, guys
like you know, I mean, you guys played against Bruce
Bowne and guys like that where they got to play
Sean Elliott. It would be a little bit different. You
wouldn't be able to run as freely and then you
would definitely get exposed. I would see just clearing out

(01:18:00):
even times in a row and Magic if you go
to guard Magic, you know, we put in a situation
where you got to guard somebody, So it would be
a little bit different. But you know, look, guys today
have mastered a style of play just like we did
in the eighties. It's just a little bit. It's a
little bit different, a little a little less inside now

(01:18:22):
you know, your bigs aren't really big, so but yeah,
I think I think it'd be a little different defensively,
a little bit more lockdown. I'd love to see Michael Cooper,
you know, play against some of the some of these
guys that but the way the ball handling is, the
way Kyrie Irving is, it'd be a challenge to be

(01:18:44):
a challenger, no doubt.

Speaker 3 (01:18:45):
What was it like seeing Mike's kind of rise in
the early nineties, It was, uh, I'm not gonna say
it was overdue, but the timing was.

Speaker 2 (01:19:00):
Was was good for Michael because he realized you know,
he couldn't do it all by himself. You know, I
think Michael he knew about team at Carolina, but I
don't think he really mastered it until guys like Hardst
Grant Hippen, guys like that. Cartwright was a big part of,

(01:19:26):
you know, the conversations with Michael. He had to learn
through with the Pistons really, but once he got past
that and what Fiel was in place, and he trusted
his teammates, trusted Paxson and Kerr and those guys, he

(01:19:47):
was he was. He was driven. He would driving them.
But yet all those guys made him better. They enhanced
his game, and that's why they started to win. Now,
Lakers were done, Boston was done, The twelve was kind
of over. Keem Olajawan did what he did, but the
league was you know, it was was right for Michael.

(01:20:09):
Utah was still there. He had some challenges, but once
he once he tasted the honey, he wanted someone. That's
what he is. He won chips with no All Stars. Yeah,
he once he tasted, that's it for him. He's like
locked in. That's it's like golf for him. Once he

(01:20:29):
once he gets locked in, that's it and I've never
seen one player that challenges everybody like in your face,
right or wrong. Whether he's right or wrong, he's in
your face. So he says it, he says a good example.

Speaker 3 (01:20:45):
Any fun or competitive stories on and off the court.
What about Mike uh Man? Michael not not anything too crazy.

Speaker 5 (01:20:56):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:20:57):
The guys used to tease him a lot, right. So
we had a running program. Three groups, A quick young guards.
They'd have to run their time, you know, like a
two twenty and twenty seven seconds. B group which Michael
was in, had to run his and thirty and then

(01:21:19):
the bigs. So the little guys were always telling Michael
the point guards, ah, you got more, you got three
more seconds to make your time. So Michael got tired
of hearing that shit. He went and told coach she
had put me in the A group. He just busted
at he was running. He was running shit twenty five seconds.

(01:21:40):
But rookies also had to carry like either field rejector
or the boom box, and Michael had the big boom
box he had to carry around. I don't really one time,
you know, I think we had to get on him
by Kurtfield boy, he was real close to because you know,
one guy in Trouble, the whole team that run. Michael

(01:22:00):
was pretty he was pretty clever. He didn't I don't
really remember too many. Buzz Peterson. You have to ask
Buzz his roommate. I know, Buzz used to say, you know, ah,
because Buzz was kind of a preppy dresser kind of guy.
So we always had to button down stairs, and Michael
used to wear all his clothes and so he's, you know,

(01:22:21):
Buzz's put his shoes on, maybe all stretched out and
messed up. He used to do stuff like that with
Buzz and they're still boys. But yeah, Michael was, he was.
He was pretty cool on campus. He went to class,
you know, low profile. When did you know it was
time to retire? When it wasn't no fun anymore? Yeah,

(01:22:47):
and you know Magic retired. Everybody was was gone, Coop
was gone, Kareem. I think Byron had been traded to Indiana,
and so I was there with a you know with
young players, you know, Anthony Peeler, h Elden, Campbell, guys

(01:23:14):
like that, and so they didn't really understand what I
had gone through, and I couldn't understand where they were headed.
They just wasn't fun anymore. The fun for me was
getting up going to practice. You know, we would get
with the ball. I practice used to be on point,
like fun, and then you know the camaraderie, the joking

(01:23:35):
on the back of the bus, and you know, we
had family. We played the together for nine years. So
when I you know, when I didn't see the same
attitude and my knee was starting to you know, I
had archscope. You know, I remember my signature dunk, you know,
not from the free throne lad but right inside. And
I just remember, like it was ninety three, and I

(01:23:59):
remember stealing and I'm I'm there, and about halfway there,
I start coming turned into a turned into a flip.
You know when your body, when your body kind of
starts talking to you, and you know, we didn't have
what they guys have today, but you know it's pretty

(01:24:20):
good shape. But when your body starts telling you, you know,
and then when your mind starts saying, yeah, it's not
finding more. Yeah, I was ready. I was ready to
give it out.

Speaker 5 (01:24:28):
Anybody in today's game remind you of Big Game. James.

Speaker 2 (01:24:34):
I can't say, man, uh, I really I really can't.
I mean, you know, one of my favorite guys to
see it. I liked him in Texas was Cavin Durant.
He had that once I developed an eight foot you
know area where you know to step back from eight
foot you know. By no means, I'm not comparing myself
to to a camera Durant, but I liked his style.

(01:24:56):
I can't really say it. They say Jeff Green when
he first came in.

Speaker 5 (01:25:00):
I can see that.

Speaker 2 (01:25:00):
When he first came in he had a statue. Yeah
he had a little, but I can't really. Not too
many guys had to spind move up the footwork. I
went to Pete Newles big Man camp for like three
or four years, so footwork was was big. But you
don't see the post game too much anymore, especially from
a guard or mid range player. Very very seldom that

(01:25:23):
you see a plays called for that. And that was
my specialty.

Speaker 5 (01:25:27):
So I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:25:27):
I don't really see that too much.

Speaker 5 (01:25:29):
Like I used to.

Speaker 6 (01:25:31):
When I got in the league. Paul Pierce started it,
and every team started doing after Paul Piers because he
was the master the stuff ual on that block to
dribble man, get that shoulder, go quick inside, hitot that's
all going from you.

Speaker 2 (01:25:44):
He was doing that at Inglewood High School used to
come to our games like five minutes away. Paul, It's.

Speaker 6 (01:25:52):
Got any COVID was the biggest story end of the game.
Some moves he probably picked up from you you got
any Corby Store.

Speaker 2 (01:26:01):
I was. I was helping Byron Coach. I wasn't traveling,
but I was going to all the practices here at home.
So I was still doing television as well. And I
was working with Julius Randall, Larry Nance, Turk Black just
on footwork, you know, step backs up and on this

(01:26:22):
all kinds of stuff. And Kobe was on the team,
but he wasn't really practicing a lot. So Gary Vda,
the trainer, called me one night, like nine thirty. This
is Kobe's nineteenth year. Now, I worked with Kobe maybe
his second year in the league when he when the
Lakers used to go to Honolulu. I worked with he

(01:26:44):
and Lamar Odham and some other guys, so i'd already,
but this is his nineteenth year. He calls me, Gary
Vedy Car said, Cobe wants to meet you in the
gym in the morning. Yeah, what's up? So I meet
him in the gym and he starts questioning me out
a certain area. It wasn't the whole lane. It was
just a certain area that his dad used to get

(01:27:11):
VHS and Beta Max when he was in Italy. Jellybean
he played in the NBA for a little while before
going to him, and this guy said he remembered this
some move and then he went to show me based
on this video that he had seen as a kid.

(01:27:33):
He just because he was getting older, he wasn't relying
on his quickness, and it was just a surprise step in.

Speaker 6 (01:27:40):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:27:41):
I would pretend that I was talking to Magic. I'd
be like what, and then I would spend and you know,
he just and because I said, you're working too hard
to get you know, you don't need to be running
all everywhere to get open. I said, just walk into it,
you know. And then sometimes you might set a back pick,
but you got to tell your point guard what you doing.

Speaker 5 (01:28:01):
And he was.

Speaker 2 (01:28:03):
He was still studying the game. Man, He wasn't even practicing.
He wasn't playing a lot either, but he was still
trying to pick up something. And I'd never seen that before.
I interviewed him once down in everybody in his office,
and I've never seen a player so focus. I don't

(01:28:23):
think he had any hobbies like golf or anything. He
was that he was just so super focused on detail
and the way he watched the game. He watched everything
hand movement. We'd be watching video and he'd be like,
always got his hand up. I got him, what are
you talking about? Because he's like, well, his weights on
that side. So anytime he thro his hands up his

(01:28:45):
So I've never seen anybody look at the game the
way he did. And then you know, of course, his
philosophy was nobody's going to have more hours than me.
I'm working at at four am to six ten twelve,
you know, so I know if I have twenty hours

(01:29:09):
at the end of the day and somebody else only
has seven, then I'm so when you when you're charging
your mind with that and you believe it, you believe
you're gonna make that shot, you know, when you're trapped
in the corner and you gotta know what to do,
but throw a left hand three and that shit goes in.

Speaker 5 (01:29:27):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:29:27):
That was that's a that's a mindset. That's uh, they
can do anything. Probably I can probably be president one
day if he wanted or something like that. But he
had a and I was just sad that we didn't
get to see what he was going to get to do.
It's for for for for girls in particularly. You know,
he's he's focused, he's locked in. He's locked in. Brother

(01:29:51):
who is.

Speaker 5 (01:29:52):
Big game James outside of basketball? Like, what do you
like to do? How is do you golf? Know you
like golf?

Speaker 4 (01:29:58):
I love golf, man, I suck at it, but I
love chasing it. I love chasing it as most people though. Yeah,
I love playing golf, but I suck it most people
who are honest about it. I just go out because
it's a good fellowship.

Speaker 2 (01:30:14):
Really, A big part of my portfolio comes from being
on the golf course because that's what the decision makers are.
They're out there, you know, trying to see, hey, who
can speak at my convention? Right? So it works some
some business ventures I love. I love my girls thirty

(01:30:34):
three and thirty one. Now, our journey was was was
a tough journey, but now we're in a place where
we you know, we've had some some good conversations. I
just love helping people. Man Boys and Girls Club do
some scholarships in my mom's ain't back home. Same things
we all do because I think you get a platform
for a reason, and that's to give back something whatever

(01:31:00):
that is. So I try to you know, I try
to stay focused on the business. Tip got a product.
Uh it's a cryo therapy. Uh like a best that
has like a specialized jail pass. Is kind of ice
Ice Ice company. We're working with some little things. Man.
Try to stay busy. Yeah, well, we.

Speaker 3 (01:31:24):
Appreciate your time today man. And with the quick hitters. Now,
so the first thing to come to mind, let us
know all time, your all time Lakers starting five. Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:31:34):
I gotta start with Elgin Baylor, only because I know
the history a little bit about Elgin, seen footage, I
talked to people. Uh one morning I woke up to
the LA Times and Sports page James Worthy's second best

(01:31:55):
small forward that would play second. And then once I
saw the Elgin Baylor was first, I left it alone
because he was that bad of a boy. Uh. I
think Elgiebla created the jump shot. Nobody was jumping. They
were shooting set shots. Uh, the euro step. If you go,

(01:32:19):
you go look at someone Elgin's footage. He's been doing it,
been doing it. And he was sticking on your hands too.
He was I saw him sticking on Russell a couple
of times in footage, and the brother played from an
army base. He was in the military. A lot of
the times they would go get him before the weekend game,
bring them to the game. But Chick Hern to this

(01:32:39):
day says the Elgin Baylor was the baddest boy he
ever seen. So I'm starting with Elger. Will wasn't a
Laker long enough, so I'm gonna go with Kareem at center, Shaq,
Kobe and Magic.

Speaker 5 (01:33:01):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 2 (01:33:02):
That's my all.

Speaker 6 (01:33:05):
Before I actually the next question, what's the story behind
you signed with New Balands.

Speaker 5 (01:33:10):
You got a lifetime deal with New Balance.

Speaker 2 (01:33:12):
A lifetime right. Still, I still got a good relationship
with them, man, and in fact congratulates to co Co
getting the job done in the open. But I was
the first one to wear their basketball shoe in eighty two.
They were big and running. But the shoe is amazing

(01:33:37):
the way it's built. So I took a chance. You know,
Nike was there, Converse was still big, but my agent
the time was was was talking to New Bounds because
they were looking to get into the basketball one. Now,
what they didn't do they paid well. I had the
biggest shoe contract. I think it was like five, you know,

(01:34:00):
five years.

Speaker 5 (01:34:00):
It was something like that.

Speaker 2 (01:34:02):
Crazy until Moses, I'm sorry, until Michael came along. But
Great Shoe and I took a chance because I had
no idea that New Balance was into basketball. But once
I put they had a mesh shoe was the first
year I put on. It was light, felt good, and

(01:34:23):
I've been wearing those what I consider bucking ankle breakers
converse in college. So I liked the shoe. I stuck
with them forever. There's a couple times my shoes got
stolen and I had to wear the visiting teams, I

(01:34:46):
mean the whole team shoes. So they got they got
on a couple of basketball cards. They got me in
Adidas if you ever see it. But I just talked
to them about six months ago about trying to you know,
they always get me product. Yeah, but we're trying to
be working on some things because I was the first. Actually,
believe it or not, it was a Boston Celtic that

(01:35:07):
introduced me to them mL CAR because they're out of
New Balances out of Maine and he was working with
them in Boston a little bit. So Great Shoe, the
son has taken over now Chris, and he's in his
thirties and he's you know a little bit more, you know,
has more ideas, got baseball players, got women. You know,

(01:35:30):
it's it's it's it's very competitive now. So yeah, so
it's be nice to blend, you know, somebody's younger. Yeah,
I had to tell Kawi Leonard m one album you
can listen to on repeat, Jeffrey Osborne on the Wings
of Love. If I'm on the Freeway, uh ierk Went

(01:35:53):
and Fire is what I grew up on. Uh No,
Billy Well Yeah, Billy Ocean. It was my guy was big, clean, yeah, Philly.
Every time I see Michael Finley, I'm like, but yeah,
it would have to be Earth Winding Fire. That was
the first concert uh I ever seen. But man, I

(01:36:16):
like bands like the Barcades Confunction. This is this the
mold stuff. But then you know, as it got a
little older, you know, tribe called uh track on Quest
was hot in Jersey. You got to see them in
some local clubs and you know, if I listened to
I'm not big in the rap, but if I do,
you know, I'm gonna probably be nos like that's some deep,

(01:36:37):
stuffy earth Winding Fire is gonna get it, though. Who's
the most underrated play of your generation?

Speaker 6 (01:36:45):
Man?

Speaker 2 (01:36:46):
Underrated? Well, people gonnay. There was a guy after Dennis
Rodman that was just tough as nails and a lot
of people don't remember him. But Rodney McCrae.

Speaker 5 (01:37:05):
I know that, I know that name.

Speaker 2 (01:37:06):
Uh played for the Rockets. Rockets, then he got traded
I think after after that they beat us in eighty six.
But we had a brother, Scooter McCrae, and they both
played at Louisville and Uh, but one of the reasons
that they that the that the Rockets beat us in
eighty six was because of his ability to you know,

(01:37:28):
slowed me down a little bit. We had Kareem, we
had magic and they had they had a king Ralph
and Reid and uh, you know they had they had
they ran the ball. But right, Rodney McCrae was was
tough man. And then there was another guy to play
for the Mavericks in Seattle, Uh, Debtli Shrimp Deatlan Shrimp

(01:37:51):
was He was tough, tough German guy man and uh
strong fundamental foot work. His first step was long and quick,
and I had some battles with him, But I would
for me those those two guys didn't get all yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:38:10):
Uh, five dinner guests dead are alive? You plus five
at the dinner table, dead are alive.

Speaker 2 (01:38:15):
Anybody that's hard?

Speaker 5 (01:38:20):
Man, that's hard. Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:38:25):
I wouldn't mind, you know, seeing what Frederick Douglass was
all about. You know he was. He was an abolitionist,
you know. Uh hm, So I'm gonna go there, Richard
Pryor laugh off? Uh, Richard Pryor for sure? Uh maya

(01:38:47):
Angelou just her dialect, you know Obama because you know
he just emerged, and I got one more mhm oh man,
I'm African entity, so strong, like Marcus Garvey or somebody

(01:39:09):
my guy, that's my guy. I would have to go
with Marcus because Marcus is deeper than a lot of people.

Speaker 6 (01:39:14):
Then he showed us how to get our own currency,
showed us if you could see one guess on all
the smoke, who would it be? But if I could
see one guest on our show, who would it be?

Speaker 2 (01:39:27):
One guest?

Speaker 5 (01:39:27):
But you have to help us get your answer on
the show.

Speaker 2 (01:39:31):
Uh ask me that one time?

Speaker 5 (01:39:33):
Who would you like to see on our show? And
you have to help us get your answer? On our show.

Speaker 2 (01:39:43):
Is a I have been on the show before, no question, quest,
no question. That's that's a tough one, man to anybody,
athlete or not anybody.

Speaker 6 (01:39:54):
You know a lot of people that came through them games,
and can you know a lot of people out here,
a lot of people out here.

Speaker 2 (01:40:01):
It would be nice if you I think Denzel's been
on too as not so that that would be somebody. Actually,
if you get Denzel, get Paul Letter too, because there
were Paul Letter's tickets. She was a bigger fan in

(01:40:21):
the eighties than Denzel and nobody knows that. And Paul
Letter was She's from North Carolina, So I would say
Denzel and Paul Letter Lou gossip. Lou gossip was an
old school say one of them with back back in
the in the in the day. Okay, I'll see if
we can get.

Speaker 3 (01:40:38):
You well, James, we appreciate it, man, your greatness, taking
your time today, but just you know what you did
for the game and Jackson. You know, you guys had
a movement that inspired a lot of us to want
to be great. So we want to thank you for
that and continued success. Thank you guys for for keeping
it going man, because you know, it's nice to sustain it.

(01:40:59):
You guys were cond just about not only what basketball needed,
but what life needed. You know what, what what the
old players, retired players needed, what the communities need? So
uh to use your platform doing this is you to
be commended for. That's a wrap, James Worthy. You can

(01:41:19):
catch us on Showtime Basketball, YouTube and the iHeart platform
Black Effects.

Speaker 2 (01:41:24):
See y'all next week.

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James Worthy | Ep 201 | ALL THE SMOKE Full Episode | SHOWTIME BASKETBALL

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Stephen Jackson

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}James Worthy | Ep 201 | ALL THE SMOKE Full Episode | SHOWTIME BASKETBALL