Michael Cooper on Guarding Larry Bird, Kobe’s Draft Workout, 80’s Players Getting Disrespected

Lakers legend Michael Cooper joins All The Smoke for a walk down memory lane that reveals untold stories behind one of basketball's most celebrated defensive titans. The newly inducted Hall of Famer breaks down his incredible journey from junior college underdog to becoming the ultimate "Larry Bird stopper" during the iconic Showtime Lakers era. Cooper pulls back the curtain on his legendary defensive prowess—a career that earned him Defensive Player of the Year in 1987 and eight All-NBA Defensive team selections. Matt and Stak get Cooper to open up about his remarkable transformation from NBA player to successful WNBA coach, sharing intimate stories about basketball royalty like Magic Johnson, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Lisa Leslie, Kobe Bryant, and more. From guarding the game's most challenging opponents to navigating the competitive landscape of professional basketball, Cooper delivers raw, unfiltered insights that only a true basketball icon can provide.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:10):
Mm hmmm mmm.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
Welcome back all the smoke twenty twenty five here presented
to you by DraftKings.

Speaker 1 (00:30):
The crown is yours. They got to put that on that.
When you get that new money, Jack.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
Your ship was look good right now. If you had
a crowd, you got your easy out right now. Yeah,
I'm just you know, off real quick. Yeah, I sure can't.
No Jerry Croll, no no products in there.

Speaker 1 (00:46):
It look wetter? Is it dry? When Coop you never
had one of those? You kept this hit? I know, yeah,
I know, y'all. I didn't think my house was like this,
but yeah, black people.

Speaker 2 (00:54):
Got good at too many Coop, Jerry curl Bo. I've
had hair Coop. Coop kept this year. Hey man, we
work man. It's and I got bounced because they I
got bounced. It's been a long time coming. I don't
think it gets more la than than than the gentleman
we have here today. Twelve year pro, eight time All Defense,

(01:16):
nineteen eighty seven Defensive Player of the Year. That's five
time NBA champ, eight, two time w NBA champions ahead coach,
one of the first OG's of three and d We're
gonna get into that today. Congratulations to the newest member
of the twenty twenty four Hall of Fame class. Welcome
to the show Man, Michael Cooper.

Speaker 1 (01:34):
Coop. We appreciate it, guys, We appreciate you. Matt. Let
me say something before we just started.

Speaker 3 (01:41):
Oh, sure, a lot of things that you want to
do in your life, but I have fucking arrived.

Speaker 1 (01:47):
Yeah you're here. I'm here man.

Speaker 2 (01:49):
Yeah cool, so good, damn Coop. And we've been trying
to get you for a minute, Coop, even dodging us.

Speaker 4 (01:56):
Yes, sir, I'm I'm I've always reminded you, not on
for the basketball. You played with the defensive side of
me and Matter, two guys that really loved and took.

Speaker 1 (02:05):
Pride to playing defense.

Speaker 4 (02:06):
And you were one of the first ones of when
I first started watching basketball to see take pride in
it and to be at eight time eight time like that,
that's a lie to me. But what made what made
you take pride and what made you just want to
be a defender? Well, Jack, you know that was my
sticking point when I got to the Lakers. Obviously growing
up here in California, Pasadena, what people don't know is

(02:30):
that I was an offensive juggernaut when I went to
junior college, I averaged twenty six points a game at
Pasadena City College. I went to New Mexico, and I
think I got changed right there. My coaching, Norm Ellenberger,
was a defensive binded coach. I finally get drafted by
the Lakers, and Jerry West came up to me, the
Lake great Jerry West. He said, cool, we got magic Kareem,

(02:52):
Jamal Willis, Norman Nixon, ain't enough.

Speaker 3 (02:54):
Shots for you. So you have to play some defense.
And that was my strongholding. I stuck to it, and
that was how I was gonna stay there, to get.

Speaker 4 (03:01):
In the court, To get on the court. You know,
Greg bob Brich told me that when I first got
to San Antonio. He's like, you see all the stars got.
If you want to get on in the court, you
better play defense. Larry Bird, one of the best basketball
players of all time, talked about you as being one
of the best defenders ever.

Speaker 1 (03:18):
You was, how do you feel hearing it from a
guy like Larry Bird? You know what.

Speaker 3 (03:23):
One of the things that we all know this playing
against your peers, you always want to be respected, and
he was one of the best. I never tried to
hurt him or anything like that. Like, you know, Detroit
had the Jordan rules and Philadelphia and I just tried
to play Larry head up and just playing as honest
as I could, because the great ones, You're not gonna
affect him with that bullshit to come, you know, pulling

(03:44):
his shirts, talking shit to him. But you couldn't talk
to Larry because he didn't ignored you. But to hear
him say that shows me that the things that I
was doing on the court was the right way to
do it. And again, just being respected by your peers
is always nice. Take me into preparing for or being
one of the best defenders ever. Take me into preparing
for Gardeners or Star like larr Berry, Like what do

(04:05):
you do, Like how do you prepare for a game?
Because like I don't know if they had skying reports
like they did back then, because we had sky reports.

Speaker 1 (04:11):
Yeah, did you have sky reports as well scouting reports.
But again it was a lot of video.

Speaker 3 (04:14):
You know, you just beta and VHS, so it was
just a lot of video watching of him, like watch
all his games back then. A lot of our games
was on tape delay, so we had a chance to
play and then after the game. I'll come home and
watch our game and then watch it. So preparing for
the great ones, though, it's gonna always be hard because
it's not about anybody in the NBA and the basketball

(04:35):
in general can get a shot off. And I think
as a defensive minded person and Jack you probably a
tested this a little bit. All you want to do
is affect their shot.

Speaker 1 (04:43):
Alter it. Mayke can shoot a little bit higher.

Speaker 3 (04:46):
But the one thing that I've always recognized about great
offensive players is their spots on the court that they
shoot the ball well from. And George Gervland told me,
they said, cool, listen, if I get to my spot,
ain't shoot you for do with me? So and thinking
like that, my job was just to keep them off
that spot. And Larry that's what I tried to do
with him. But you know, people ask me all the

(05:07):
time who's the hardest player, and I always say him
because I played against Michael.

Speaker 1 (05:13):
Jordan, George Gervin, Andrew Tony.

Speaker 3 (05:17):
And those guys when they passed the ball, they have
a tendency to take a break for a second. Larry
never was gonna take a break. Larry's gonna go get
an offensive rebound. He's gonna go sell a back pitch.
He was gonna do something to impact that possession. So
that's why he was the about six eight six nine,
six nine.

Speaker 1 (05:32):
Constantly on the moves. Crazy.

Speaker 4 (05:35):
What's your opinion on when some of these younger players
being disrespectful to day saying players in the AD didn't
have any skill.

Speaker 3 (05:41):
Don't like it, but you have to respect their game.
And again talk is cheap for me one to mine.
And I really liked this young man, Anthony Edwards, some
of the things he said. You know, and I asked
somebody the other day, I said, do you think he
could app ask you guys, I do you think he
could have played in our era back then, eighties, nineties?

(06:02):
I think he atted to so in saying that he
has to respect the game because he's looking at it
from his point of view. Now, always tell these guys,
now google me and then you'll get a chance to see.
But you know what, basketball was tough when we came up, man,
Basketball was hard, physical basketball. It was referees had I
tell people this all the time we played. I don't

(06:23):
know if you guys did, but I played when there
was only two officials and so they didn't see everything,
so you could lay some wood on somebody and and
hit them. But again, the young players that are talking
this game now, it's a different game. It's a perimeter
game now. When we grew up, it was about take
that motherfucker to the who and inside out all the time.

(06:44):
So I respect these young kids, but I just wish
they would respect us a little bit more instead of
opening your mouth. Look at how the game has changed
to where we have made it easy financially for you guys,
as well as the game the way they play the
game because the rules have changed. I was not so
much physicality in the game, but it is slowly getting there,
but we changed that.

Speaker 2 (07:05):
I think you touched on something though, because obviously right
now there's talks you know, with the ratings being down
and viewership being down. You came in the era and
we piggybacked off the era you left of inside out basketball, physicality,
getting to the basket, getting to the foul line, playing
in the paint.

Speaker 1 (07:20):
You know, Steph Curry comes along. This is a copycat league.

Speaker 2 (07:22):
They started dynasty in the whole world, from grassroots basketball
to the pros are shooting way too many threes. Now,
what are your thoughts on the game of basketball as
a whole.

Speaker 3 (07:31):
Right now, you know what, mad I looked at the
game when the Vlades and some of the other players,
Ku Koch and those guys were coming in, and I
love that because I think international basketball is a little
bit more fundamental than ours. And Norm Nixon and I
was talking about this, how the international players, we thought
that we would change them, but they changed our game
and they have really made that big and it they

(07:53):
BIG's obsolete now almost you know, you got Winby that's
doing something. But he plays more like a European player,
but mb players like that. There's no more inside games.
So for me, it's a game that has changed twice
since I've been watching it growing up here watching it
in the sixties and seventies, how the game was very slow.
Magic and Bird comes in and they makes passing, they

(08:14):
make team play, they make the passion for the game
a little bit more lively. So viewership shot out the roof,
and now through the eighties and nineties and two thousand
is going back to that again. So viewership is down
because the way people are playing the game, and I
think the way we played a little bit more creativity athletically,
although you got some athletes that can play. Now, these

(08:35):
guys here are stuck on three point shooting, and that
to me is just killing the game. But it's about
the dunk now. It ain't about the mid range game.
It's not about that layup. It's not about scoring easily.
It's about making it really look creative. And you know
the and one videos and the PlayStation games that has

(08:56):
changed the game, that has helped changed the game in
a negative way, but also.

Speaker 4 (09:00):
Want a positive way to the game. Question I want
to ask you, growing growing up in LA, how does
it feel to be on the one of the best
Laker teams ever and also one of the best being
one of the best Lakers ever growing up in LA?
Like that's that's That's like me saying I'm growing up
in Houston and I retired as one of the best,
the best Rockets ever.

Speaker 1 (09:21):
You know what I'm saying. So, I mean, isn't that
a great feeling to say you from here and you
one of the best Lakers ever? Jack?

Speaker 3 (09:26):
Absolutely feeling you don't want growing up and coming up
And actually the day that I got drafted in nineteen
seventy nine, I was at the park because I didn't
think that I was gonna get.

Speaker 1 (09:35):
Drafted by the Lakers. There's been some great players.

Speaker 3 (09:39):
Just to throw one out, the Reggie Dias, great player
of morning side, Reggie with Chicago. So I'm thinking all
of us are going back east, back east. So when
they told me that the Lakers are drafted me, my
job then was to kind of like be one of
those players, which I eventually became to just play for
one team and play their home team, And.

Speaker 1 (09:56):
Very proud of that, very very proud of that. But
it is it's a dream to come true.

Speaker 3 (10:01):
You know, as young people, we grow up and we
think about certain things in life, where you want to
be an astronaut president. I thought about being a basketball player.
But the way my career is unfolded, it's still I
pinched myself every day on half. You can say that, yeah,
it is absolutely amazing to do the things that I
was able to do here at home.

Speaker 4 (10:19):
You almost didn't get a chance to play basketball. You
cut your knee when you was young. The doctor said
he never thought you'd be able to walk again.

Speaker 1 (10:25):
Never walk.

Speaker 3 (10:25):
You know, my grandmother and halloweens to in the sixties
and seventies, they cooked that chicken grease and bacon grease
and stuff, and they put it in that folzier can
that they cut off the top and they put it
by the back door, sort of cool. If they wanted
they go get a spoon and dip out of it. Well,
this was some hot grease and it had melted. I
mean it hadn't frozen up yet, so some dogs had
knocked it over.

Speaker 1 (10:47):
We had a dog. So I walked outside and slipped
on that and fell right in the middle of me.

Speaker 3 (10:51):
Being a skinny person, my knee was caught right in
there and it cut it all the way to the bone,
one hundred and two stitches. But you know, my grandmother
was a very huh, let's catch you off. Hold were
you about five? And I was skinny, so I mean,
I'm like, the do this thing here? So I mean
it was an easy cut. But my grandmother was a
woman of faith, prayed a lot and went to church.

(11:12):
And I tell people this from the age I was
born until I went to college, I went to church
three times a week my whole life. So she sat
up with me that whole night and prayed. And you
know that not only was I able to walk, but
some people said I was able to fly.

Speaker 4 (11:28):
Yeah, so definitely that went to Pasadena High School, Pasadena
Community College. Talk about the JUCO to the NBA route
back then, I a lot of people.

Speaker 1 (11:41):
Look at D two.

Speaker 3 (11:44):
Small college, junior college is a bad way to take.
I think for me it was a good route because
I didn't have the credentials coming out of high school.
Uh to go on and now nowadays AAU basketball is
killing the game. I mean these kids here because all
of them think you got kids being held back. So
for junior college, that was a good route for me.

(12:05):
It helped me academically because I was a bad student.
I went to school to be an athlete student. I
didn't go to be a student athlete. And I became
academically an eligible at junior college and that set the
path for me to get my grades right. So my
sophomore year I turned things around and that's when I
became a better athlete on the floor because I was
taking care of business off the floor and that led

(12:26):
me on. But junior college is a good route. Sometimes
you get good players there. There's many of them, and
it can be a slow route for you because sometimes
when you go straight D one you're being pushed that
you don't get a chance to really enjoy the college life.

Speaker 1 (12:39):
But I got a chance to do that. I went
for two weeks.

Speaker 4 (12:42):
You got guys like Tiny Archibald, Jimmy Butler, Steve Francis,
Larry Johnson's, Bob McAdoo, Dennis Robin, all those guys.

Speaker 1 (12:50):
Pretty well.

Speaker 4 (12:50):
Yes, when did the og high socks come in? Did
you start wearing them at a young age or when
you got to the league. That's when you start wearing
the socks to your thighs.

Speaker 1 (13:00):
Boy, you know what Jack really? First of all, I
was away to keep make my legs a little bigger.
Back then it was about to I didn't have big cass.

Speaker 3 (13:10):
But how that unfolded was nineteen seventy four. We were
playing a team called El Rancho. It was the first
time they had brought back Al Rancho El Rancho, and
it was the first time they were bringing back high
school game of the Weeks because it had disappeared in
nineteen seventy, so seventy four they was bringing it back
with my grandmother at that time had glaucoma, wasn't.

Speaker 1 (13:29):
Doing well, and my team was all black, and so
they were coming back.

Speaker 3 (13:35):
She had a little small black and white TV, and
she said, baby, you gotta do something so I can
distinguish you from the other one. So what I did
is I wore two white sweat bands. I wore my
socks up high, and I pulled my strings out and
I was, you can see you, yeah, And I was
I had the twenty four point fifteen rebounds and four

(13:56):
dunks that game. And I said, if you know what
I'm rolling with.

Speaker 1 (14:01):
I love it all. That's a dope story.

Speaker 2 (14:03):
Drafted in seventy nine, same year that Jerry Buss buys
the team. You arrived one year prior to Magic, your
rookie year. Jerry West was the coach, Kareem was the
big dog.

Speaker 1 (14:14):
What does that scene to you?

Speaker 2 (14:15):
As Jackson stated, you know, we talked about your whole career,
but going back to the very beginning Pasadena Pasadena College,
you say, you make a pit stop in New Mexico.
But now you're a Los Angeles Laker. But this is
before the Lakers are everything. You know what I mean,
you helped make them everything. But what was it like
when you first, you know, stepped in and got a
chance to see the form and meet Cap and Jerry

(14:37):
and all these guys.

Speaker 3 (14:38):
You know what that you guys know this when you
get to a team and you're coming in from college
to the pros. And the first thing I did, we
just parked over at Loyal and Marymount, and I remember
going into training camp. I was kind of nervous, really
didn't know what to expect. And I walked into the
gym and at the other end was Kareem shooting Scott
Hook's and I looked at him and I said, damn,

(14:59):
that's for me. It was Louil Sindor because i 'new
it before then, but Kareem. So I go in there
and he looks at me. He go, hey, man, what
the fuck are you looking at? I said, I'm sorry,
I'm just trying to said fucking locker rooms over there.
Go in there and get your shit ready. This Kareem
talked the first time, you guys in every convery time
I ever met him. So I go in there and chained,

(15:22):
and then one thing led to another. But the fold
became very, very passionate because with Doctor Buss buying the team,
his whole goal was for Los Angeles to be loved
by everybody. And the one thing Doctor Buss always said,
is you guys want We want you to entertain the entertainers,
and that was our role. So they bring in Magic
Johnson and this guy here, man, I had never been

(15:44):
around a player that enjoyed and loved the game so much.
I mean, this dude came every day. And back then
we used to have them big old boom boxes that
you have and you carry around there, you go one
back there. But Magic was bigger than that one. And
he was always playing Frankly Beverly and Mays or Luther
Vandros or something like that. And he used to come
in and just very infectious. And when we got with

(16:04):
the Lakers, they had a lot of old super old g's,
Ron Boone, Lou Hudson, Kenny Carr, Kenny Thompson. They had
a lot of older veterans that are on their way out.
So we had to fight, and them dudes had that
old man's strength. And you know you're playing them dudes
in the gym, they hold you by the arm. You
can't get away from him. But they taught us how
to play the game, a very rugged game. But once

(16:27):
they got out of the set and it became Magic's team,
things became magical, and it was about enjoyment, entertained, passed
the ball. If you held on to it too long,
you would hear people saying, move the ball, Move the ball.
And that was something that wasn't familiar with the seventies
growing up because the Celtics was winning everything. The Lakers
and everybody was just dribble, dribble, dribble. And Magic changed that,

(16:49):
and he changed it for us, and doctor Bus took
it and brought in the Laker girls, and oh the
world just changed real quick. Did you get a chance
to see I think you might have been able to
play with I know Matt for sure, but I think
you might have been because you that motherfucker had a
little nasty aning too.

Speaker 4 (17:06):
One thing that we missed a couple of games. I
probably been stuck in that little club, the farm club.
I probably been sleeping there.

Speaker 1 (17:13):
Listen.

Speaker 3 (17:14):
Then you got traded. Magic said you go up there,
but you better be on the bus the next day.

Speaker 1 (17:20):
So that was Magic ru Jerry's rule.

Speaker 3 (17:23):
That was everybody's rule. But said, hey, listen, you can
have fun, but I should his business man come playing.
And when we got into certain cities, we go out
on the road and Magic would tell everybody, listen, if
we played the next day, you got one o'clock curfew.
It was this dude said a curfew for me. All right,
funk around and you come back and see Magic was

(17:45):
a big part of the team.

Speaker 1 (17:46):
You may not play.

Speaker 3 (17:48):
So we all kind of learned that and we just
fell in line because that is the things that breed championships.

Speaker 4 (17:53):
You remember your first experience at the farm Club. I
was buried, so you didn't function. I walked through there
with my wife.

Speaker 1 (18:02):
Yeah, but I would look yeah, okay, listen, my blinders
were like this. They weren't like that. They were more like,
are you still married to the same woman? No? Okay,
well okay, we've been married for twenty three years, a
long time.

Speaker 2 (18:14):
Yeah, but talk to I mean, obviously, all jokes aside,
and we can kind of grint about it now. I
mean that team was known for getting it in, definitely
on the court, but enjoying themselves off the court, and
you being a married man.

Speaker 1 (18:25):
We're known for that too. Yes, we were for that.
We were married. We were cracking. Yeah, we was cracked.
What was it like though? What was it? Talk to us?

Speaker 2 (18:32):
Because I mean, that was a game within the game.
I mean, the Forum Club is legendary. People tell stories
about that. What was that Forum Club like? You know what,
the Forum Club was a different place. It was almost
like Studio fifty four back in New York and New
York at the time. And Dr Buss wanted that. He
he paraded women that came to the game around and
then he would take his entourage and go sit up

(18:52):
by the flag. But that was part of la and uh.
The only ones that really partook of that a lot.
Myself was married, Bira Scott was buried. Norm Nixon and
Magic Johnson were the only single guys, so we kind
of lived vicariously through them and the thing up of
the Playboy Mansion or wherever they were at and they

(19:13):
come back, we would all be sitting on the bus
the next day, you know what happened.

Speaker 1 (19:18):
So we're hearing.

Speaker 3 (19:19):
But then as we go through that later on in
the later the eighties, you know, people started partaking a
little bit more. We just kept it under wraps, but
our main goal was to win play basketball the night.

Speaker 2 (19:35):
You got to know this, anybody in all you saw
other at the Forim Club at the games because he said,
mister Buss's goal was obviously the win, but also entertained.
So the stars and stars were sitting there watching you
guys every night or partying right next to you guys.

Speaker 3 (19:50):
Well, Diane Cannon, he was a heart throb in the
seventy eighties, and when she kind of like took us
under her and became, along with Jack Nicholson, our super fans,
it was kind of impressive to see her. But Paul Abdul,
before she became Paul Abdul, was a Laker girl. I mean,
there was many many that came through there. But again,

(20:10):
like I said, I lived a lot of my life
through Norm and Magic listening to those guys.

Speaker 1 (20:15):
So you saw some good ship through their eyes.

Speaker 4 (20:18):
Yeah, Jack have seen a lot of basketball, Jack Nicholas,
You've seen a lot of good basketball.

Speaker 3 (20:24):
Jack was so down to earth because we used to
go to on the Rocks, which is above the Roxy
in Hollywood, and Jack would be in there and we
used to party with him, you know, drink and you know,
it was a really intimate setting nightclub. So we'd all
be up in there and just to hear some of
the stories. But again, you watched this one floor of
the Cuckoo's Nest. You watch him in many other movies

(20:45):
that he had, and I couldn't believe that this guy
was standing next to me, but so knowledgeable of a fan,
knew the game inside and out. And my one great
memory of Jack is that in nineteen eighty four we
were going and you know, obviously not being able to
beat the Celtics, and we go there in the Celtics
wild beat them, and Jack said, you know what, fuck
y'all mooned them, sit up top, pull his past down
and move the fans my way out. And for us,

(21:08):
that was our sign that, you know what, the Celtics
had never beat us again, and we came back in
eighty five and beat them, So I love it.

Speaker 1 (21:14):
That was our unspoken leader.

Speaker 2 (21:18):
Was how factual? Was Winning Time any factual to it?
Or was it just peer entertainment?

Speaker 3 (21:24):
I would peer entertainment. I would say that Jerry West
docked the bus. Were never like that, pat Riley never smoked,
And no, it wasn't factual at all. But one thing,
I'll give them the people they got to depict some
of us.

Speaker 1 (21:37):
They hit a good job.

Speaker 2 (21:39):
So when you see that, I mean again, they're telling
your story. And I heard Magic come out and say
something some other guys liked. Was there any part of
you that could enjoy because I enjoyed it? Because I didn't.
I was born in nineteen eighty and you guys are
my favorite team, So just kind of imagining what it
could be like. Although you say it wasn't like that
any part of you enjoyed it, or you're just like
this is never watch really watched it.

Speaker 1 (21:58):
The one thing I heard about me is that I
broke down. I broke down on the highway.

Speaker 3 (22:05):
My wife and I'm walking up and down and I'm
cursing and everything, and my wife was under the car
trying to fix the car. That the breakdown happened. But
I'm a man's man. Ifthing gonna happen, my crumba gup.
But no, that that wasn't really didn't pay any attention
to it. But I heard a lot of my friends
washing it, and a lot of people always said, well,
this go down, that go down.

Speaker 1 (22:26):
I'd say ninety percent of it was fake, but people
enjoyed it.

Speaker 4 (22:31):
I don't know, like I said, we don't know if
it's true or not. But the guy who played Norm
Nixon killed it. It's the same guy played in Snowfall.
He played and crazy on Snowfall, but he killed it.
He played he played nor him. Real dude played. Magic
was good too, Yeah he did. Lady Bird was good.
He was good too.

Speaker 1 (22:46):
I enjoyed. I ain't gonna lie. I didn't know what
was true or not.

Speaker 2 (22:49):
But again, growing up, you know, being a Showtime fan,
I thought it was dope. Your relationship with the late
great Jerry West.

Speaker 1 (22:55):
Like a father son.

Speaker 3 (22:57):
And you know, Jerry was one of uh one of
the players that picked a couple of us, and we're
affectionately known Undertoned Jerry's kids and myself Byron Scott, A. C. Green,
James Worthy, Michael Thompson. I mean, he appreciated Magic, part
of that. But Jerry was an interesting individual man. And

(23:21):
the thing that hurt me about Winning Times is how
they depicted him, because that was not.

Speaker 1 (23:25):
Jerry West at all. Jerry very rarely cursed.

Speaker 3 (23:28):
He was a man into his family. He didn't have
any ratin and raving around the office or anything like that.
And I had an opportunity in ninety one when I
retired to actually sit my office was next to his,
and this title that everybody has now special assistant to
the general Manager. That title was made for me by
Jerry West to give me an opportunity to learn the

(23:49):
business goings and learning how to scout and recruit players.
But Jerry Man was a very forceful individual. He understood
the game of basketball to the tea. He taught me
how to scout and recruit. And it was just such
a shame how they did that to him because that
wasn't Jerry. But you know what, the people that really

(24:10):
know Jerry, it hurts a little bit, but we knew
who he was and that wasn't him. But my relationship
goes very deep.

Speaker 1 (24:16):
You know.

Speaker 3 (24:16):
After I retired, I had an alcohol and substance abuse
and Jerry was the first one to pull me to
the side. He was like, Coop, what's going on? And
he understood it. So I went and spent forty five
days that John Lucas is down in Houston rehab place
there and probably one of the best things to turn
my life around. And sometimes we can get letters straight

(24:40):
on different things, and I was able that Jerry West
was able to see that and he caught it early
before my issues became even bigger than I couldn't handle.
So I go down there, I take care of that.
Came back, I still had a job. He was still
rooting for me, and until the day he died. I
spoke to him a week before he passed away. Jerry
and I was very, very close. It's going to be missed.

(25:03):
But again, we try to live our life to implement,
to imitate who he was. And I think a lot
of us do that.

Speaker 1 (25:10):
I don't.

Speaker 4 (25:10):
I don't really care about what a lot of people think,
but our hohle. What Jerry told me about my game
did a heart, you know, just hearing him say that.
We was in the Golden State at the time. We
had to go back, Yeah, and either we spoke when
to havelftime, they brought us back for something. I think
you're still on the team probably, yeah, and walking out
the arena, I was just like, how you doing, mister West.

(25:31):
He was like Stephen Jackson, Yeah, I remember you doing
this to start talking about my game, and like that
shocked me to hear Jerry West, you know, actually know
like personal things in my game.

Speaker 1 (25:40):
So that meant everything to me, you know, knowing who
he was and what he meant to basketball. Jerry loved basketball, man,
and I mean he loved all players that played.

Speaker 3 (25:48):
And if you we especially with the Lakers, if we could,
we would go up to him at one Jarry, what
do you think what about? He could tell you different
things that went on, and of course of your game,
you know, had the three fifty seven market the second quarter?

Speaker 1 (26:00):
Why did you take that shot?

Speaker 4 (26:01):
So we talk about bird being black. I think Jered
was the first one that was black. Jerr, Yeah, he
was a brother. He was a brother.

Speaker 2 (26:08):
Brouh, he was a brother. Pat Riley comes in and
takes over. What was that transition like for you on
the team.

Speaker 3 (26:14):
Well, with him being as an assistant coach, we kind
of knew what we were gonna get. And one thing
I always say about coach Riley is that attention to detail.
I had never heard a coach say that that much
about anything, and Pat was always talking about that across
the t's dot the I attention to detail. And he

(26:34):
was the first one to set me on the path
of wanting to be a coach the way he handled us.
But Pat was cool, Uh, he understood when he took
took the reins over the team that don't fuck it up,
get out the way and as but as we went on,
he started kind of developing and putting his fingerprints or
handprints more on the team. But when he took over, man,

(26:54):
we knew we were gonna win. He had the look.
Pat told a lot of us how to dress you.
You know, they had a little thing now called the
Riley spread. There's a shirt you can buy that. So
but Pat was really really nice man and just influential
all of our games on and off the court.

Speaker 1 (27:09):
Tough training camps, very tough man. We would go.

Speaker 3 (27:13):
Pat wasn't big into going two and a half three hours,
but if we went two hours, and he'd let you know, hey,
you guys were in here for two hours, so you
either give it to me or I can string it out.
And we messed around and he strung it out one time.
So when he would come in every day, hey, we're
gonna be here for our forty give me what you got.
And once we understood that, we started practicing real hard.

Speaker 1 (27:33):
But he was pushing us, pushing us.

Speaker 3 (27:37):
He pushed us to be the first team in sixteen
years at that time, to repeat in eighty seven eighty eight,
and then he kind of like broke us in eighty
nine because he pushed us too hard and we're going
back to play the Pistons and we, you know, have
our first practice back there. He gets there and wants
to have a two and a half hour practice, and
that's when Byron got hurt. Magic was hurting in the finals.

(28:00):
The finals, we did, we did, I'll tell you we'd
have whooped the Pistons. Ass we'd have been a repeat
now that Isaiah and he gave us hell. But if
we you know, and then we thowt that the ball
goes out and then Magic pulls his hand the first
two minutes of the game, so we just weren't that team.

Speaker 1 (28:17):
And they went on to win. But up until that point,
and before we had that practice, we were going to
beat the crazy. It's all called the way Pat right handled.

Speaker 2 (28:26):
Us question because obviously what made him great is what
has kind of had people looking at him a certain way.
Now he's built something with you guys, he built something
in Miami, and now we're seeing the fallout with Jimmy
Butler not wanting to play there and Pat kind of
standing on his principles and morals. We were talking about
this on our other show earlier. Will Pat be that

(28:46):
way till he dies? Or do you think Pat has
it in him to kind of conform to what this
newer era of basketball and how players are.

Speaker 3 (28:53):
Well, I think he's conformed, but if you look at
his rollers behind the scene, supposed to pretty much is
out front and handles the day to day thing is
on the court, and I think he still has a
little pat Riley in him, but he understands the communication
and how to handle today's players. But again, Pat is
about that heat culture and that's never going to change
because he's developed the culture when we were winning in LA.

(29:14):
He went to New York and developed something really nice
there and then on to Miami. So Pat's never going
to change because he knows what it takes to win basketball.
And I think it's not a do it my way
or the highway with him, but do it this way
because this way wins, or you'll hit the posture there.
So you know, that's unfortunate that Jimmy Butler. But one

(29:36):
man trashes another man's treasure and I'm trying to get.

Speaker 1 (29:39):
Him out here.

Speaker 3 (29:39):
Poke the Lakers, come on, man, do something because they
give it a fire sail over there. Man, you get
Jimmy Butler and put him with adm Le. You know,
everybody knows the issue. So coach Riley or whoever is called,
he's behind behind so much shot. You're not gonna get
what you want. So the best thing you you can do,

(30:00):
I think at that point in time, would be to
take the best deal you can get.

Speaker 1 (30:03):
I think the Lakers will come up with something. How
did Cooper Loup come about? That came about from Magic?

Speaker 3 (30:10):
Because when Magic was at Michigan State, he had a
young man named Greg Kelser playing with him and when
they beat Indiana State, that's what he was throwing the
log to him. So when he came to the team
and I wasn't doing much scoring because my whole focus
was about defense, was to play, he said, cool, we
got to find a way to get you to score, man,
because I wouldn't shoot the ball. I just get it
inside inside, And that's how it developed. So he said, listen, cool,

(30:33):
we're on the break. Man, my boy k I used
to throw it to him, So would you see me
do this or make a move like that.

Speaker 1 (30:39):
You just go to the hoop.

Speaker 3 (30:41):
And a lot of people never thought Magic could get
you the ball, but he could get you the basketball.
And example, we had this guy named Joe Cooper, big
guy forget where you're are.

Speaker 1 (30:51):
But Joe Cooper was seven to.

Speaker 3 (30:52):
One and Magic at training camp would tell all the
new people, listen, if you cut through the key, get
your hand up and your hands up, because I'll get
you the basketball.

Speaker 1 (31:05):
And I remember he told Joe Cooper that. He told him.

Speaker 3 (31:08):
One time we were in practice hself, Joe went through there,
Magic said, Joe, get your hands up.

Speaker 1 (31:12):
Man, I see you.

Speaker 3 (31:15):
Next time he went through there and he turned and
looked back. The ball hit right in the face and
busted his nose and blood was everywhere. They wiped him
up the next day. The guy got traded. So Magic
when he tell you something, man as, I just used
to go and that's how that developed. He throw it
and Chick hern is the one that coined it, the

(31:37):
Cooper loop, you know, before it was just the alley oop.
And then obviously my name being Coop he added that.
So he's another one I missed.

Speaker 1 (31:43):
Check her. He was big and our growth as a
team and as the NBA got better.

Speaker 2 (31:49):
Talk to us about Magic as just obviously we saw
what you guys put on the court as team and
team team and championships.

Speaker 1 (31:56):
Well, what kind of leader was Magic.

Speaker 3 (31:58):
Magic was always a special person and you could tell
that God had something for him and to be out
there and lead. And obviously we see the end result now,
but in the beginning we could see it because he
understood the game, he understood people, and he understood his
value to the game of basketball. And whenever I talk
about Magic, you have to talk about Larry Bird when

(32:19):
you talk about the growth of basketball in the eighties.
But Magic has done something spectacular beyond that.

Speaker 1 (32:25):
Man. Obviously he's getting the Presidential Award for Yeah, So.

Speaker 3 (32:33):
I don't know if something honor, Yes, honor him and
messy and I mean it's those are the type of
things that he was always headed for. And you know what,
when he came out and said he was HIV positive,
people look down on him. And obviously AIDS and HIV
awareness was not as aware as it is today.

Speaker 1 (32:53):
Magic brought that to the forefront.

Speaker 3 (32:55):
And you know what, I was in the front office
when he announced that he was HIV positive and he
pulled me in. It was me, Jerry West, doctor Bust,
Bill Scharman, a couple of people and he pulls me
in and he goes Coop, Listen, I got HIV and
I started crying because at that time, all we knew

(33:16):
is if you had HIV the virus, you're gonna get
full blown AIDS.

Speaker 1 (33:20):
And I remember crying and I said, he's go man,
stop crying. Man.

Speaker 3 (33:22):
I said, well, Eve, how long are they giving you?
He said, MANIM want beat this. And he said it
was such a such a straight face and a belief
in his heart that you knew. So when we went
out and he actually did the press conference, I mean
it was amazing. They flee this young man stand up
there and for him to try to come back, a
lot of people Karl Malone was one of the woman

(33:44):
not playing against him because this and that blew that
out of proportion.

Speaker 1 (33:48):
But a candy still kept.

Speaker 3 (33:49):
His steadiness and as you see, magic good magic, and
he's all the man he is today was the man
you saw when he first came into the league.

Speaker 1 (33:58):
He just grew into that guy.

Speaker 3 (34:00):
So you could see there was greatness all about him,
not just on the court, but off the court. He's
a man of God, loves his family, loves his friends,
and he takes advantage of all the opportunities that have
been given him.

Speaker 4 (34:12):
Absolutely Mos Malone, Jamorrow Willks Bobby Jones, Cavanat, and Michael Thompson.
You were a part of the iconic Nike Force one
Memory slide. Can you talk about that that campaign for
one right there? Check it out everybody. Everybody was waiting
for the flood though.

Speaker 2 (34:33):
But this is before Nike was popular though, exactly, and
shooting all the kids wear.

Speaker 1 (34:38):
Now you thought you were sweet, You thought you were
sweet right now. I was.

Speaker 3 (34:43):
I had to take advantage of that that shot because
I wasn't gonna get my own shoe.

Speaker 1 (34:49):
And when they came out with that, I think that
was such an iconic picture. That of one thing.

Speaker 3 (34:54):
I want you try to look at that picture. See
how Moses calling everybody else's collar is kind of tight? Yeah,
most too big defend in his and he's split all
the way down to the waist. So they actually had
to get pins and pin most.

Speaker 1 (35:05):
Of the hold on. But this is the key question, though,
is that a onesie or y'all got y'all tucked in? No,
it's a onesie. It's the ones that But I was
so proud to do that picture. I was eighty two. Yeah,
that's iconic. Yeah, real warriors. Yeah, I tell you, that's

(35:25):
the original Air Force one.

Speaker 3 (35:27):
Yeah, Air Force ones, and that's the shoe that all
the young people wear today.

Speaker 1 (35:32):
You know what.

Speaker 3 (35:32):
And I'm say this because I love Nike. I'm a
big Nike person. It was a fucked up shoe to wear. Man,
you couldn't play.

Speaker 1 (35:40):
Balling because it was just it was kind of clunky.
You can't hoop them, No, you couldn't.

Speaker 3 (35:45):
But they the ones that they have for us were
real high tops, I mean big high tops. But you
know what, I always started crying I watched that because
I remember we were up at five o'clock in the
morning doing that and well we had to get there
at four the background and.

Speaker 1 (36:00):
Yeah, that was a nice pick, timeless pick. Hell. Yeah,
that's dope.

Speaker 3 (36:05):
I don't know why they put me over by Moses.
I should have been on the other side. That's another story.

Speaker 1 (36:10):
He was around me cool.

Speaker 2 (36:11):
Five championships and a nine year window crazy eighty to
eighty eight. Played against the Celtics three of those times.

Speaker 1 (36:19):
What were those rivalries?

Speaker 2 (36:21):
Like, I mean, obviously there's documentary thirty for thirties and
we've seen all kind of stuff, but as a key
figure in those games and those series, going to the
old Boston Garden and the one hundred and fucking fifteen
degrees in there, and then coming back to La and
finally getting over the hump.

Speaker 1 (36:36):
What were those battles and wars like?

Speaker 3 (36:37):
You know what, it's that old saying cliche, Iron sharpings iron,
and that's what Boston did for us, and I think
Detroit did that for Chicago. You know the way that
Chicago earlier, young Mike had to fight to get through them.
But playing the Boston Celtics was, you know, it's gonna
be a battle, and the important thing about playing them

(36:57):
is who was going to establish and and their game?
And we were up tempo game, but some kind of way,
Boston always brought it down to their level and when
they did, they were able to beat us. But once
we turned that series around, and it all took Kurt
Rams getting closed and tie closed line, that let us
understand that the Celtics were about whatever they could do

(37:19):
to win, and then we had to change that. But
those rivals were something very very special. I think the
whole world, the NBA basketball world, was waiting. That's who
they wanted to see. They needed Boston to get through,
They needed the Lakers to get through, and the NBA
took advantage of that.

Speaker 1 (37:35):
Well.

Speaker 2 (37:35):
I mean, you may not have known at the time
because you're in it in the moment, but you know
a lot of people say that, you know, Magic and
Bird kind of helped shape and save where the NBA
was headed and changed the direction of where it was going.
And again, obviously you were playing in those games, but
did you feel it, Like you said, the world needed
Boston to get through and the world needed the Lakers

(37:56):
to get through. And you have a white superstar versus
black superstar uptown l a team versus you know, a
blue collar, blue collar racist out there racist all what
out out that way. But when you guys collided on
the court, you know, obviously in the moment, you may
not have known it, but looking back, you know, would
you say that Magic and Bird obviously with their teams,
but those individuals kind of helped shape the direction of

(38:18):
the NBA.

Speaker 3 (38:19):
I think so they made it more syllable, they made
it more competitive. Our team was just as tough as
Boston on a different kind of way, athletics sort of way.
And I think the league benefited from that for sure.
And I ask you guys this, do you think it
would have worked? Have had Magic went to Bossie and

(38:42):
Larry went to La.

Speaker 4 (38:43):
No, no why because it's just just a demographic and
how it was. Magic came to La where he was
welcome with he could be him.

Speaker 1 (38:50):
He wouldn't. He couldn't have been the Magic he was
here in Boston.

Speaker 4 (38:53):
They would they would, They would have forced him to
be somebody else, more like Bird, and that wouldn't have worked.
They both went to two situations where they can be
who they who they normally were, you know what I'm saying,
And it was it was the best fit for both
of them. I don't think nobody else besides Michael and
Chicago went to a team where Peter and also Tim
Duncan them four guys. They went to the perfect situation

(39:14):
for them. And I think Magic and Bird said it off.

Speaker 2 (39:16):
And I think I'll add something to that style of play.
You're a Magic style of play. Well, he couldn't. He
couldn't get McHale and Perish and Walton at time, those
guys to be running up and down the court the
way he got. You guys are run up and down
the court. So I don't I don't think it could
have worked.

Speaker 3 (39:29):
That's why I say people asked me. I said, you
know what, there is a basketball god because they make
things happen, they make things round them, they make things right.

Speaker 1 (39:38):
Yeah, I mean you know what. That was right. That
was right, and the.

Speaker 3 (39:41):
NBA needed that at that time. They needed two young
people to come in and just show what the fundamentals.

Speaker 1 (39:47):
Of basketball was about.

Speaker 3 (39:48):
That's why I say Magic made passing fun. He made
smiling fun. He made getting ready before the game. You
know before I heard that Wilt Chamberlain and Elgin Baylor
and what was a smoker? And you went into the Lakers'
locker room before everybody's smoking. They're just sitting there, not
doing anything. You imagine smoking before a fucking game.

Speaker 1 (40:07):
Crette still but just still still. Yeah, So I couldn't
hate cigarette and drinking. I heard some of the guys
would have a beer before the game. So that's just hydration.

Speaker 3 (40:19):
So for the Lakers, in our locker room, there was
music playing. We were walking around talking about the game.

Speaker 1 (40:24):
Who you gonna guard this? And that? Uh, we were
going over the board.

Speaker 3 (40:28):
Magic was kind of like quizzing people and we could
okay for the guards, Uh, Dennis Johnson, what we gotta
do begin gotta stop him, keep him off the boards.
Magic was doing this all of us work. Magic was
kind of like and music was playing and stuff like that.
And at that time we didn't have that hard hip
hop hip hip hop that they have the rap music.
So we were listening to Frankie Beverley.

Speaker 1 (40:47):
This mooth Yeah, put you in a good move. Yeah.
So uh, I mean, they just changed the game and
it was very very ben and you gotta go out
there and glide the motherfucker.

Speaker 2 (41:02):
Nineteen eighty seven Defensive Player of the Year. But there
wasn't There was one person that wasn't happy about that, Younes,
Michael Jordan. Michael Cooper is a great on ball denial,
but check the other numbers. Check the other stats. Seventy
eight steels, forty three blocks. This league gives defensive wards
on reputation and it just HEAs a minute, who wasn't

(41:22):
happy about this? Michael Jordan, He said something about it. Yeah,
this is quotes. We're reading quotes. You never knew that.

Speaker 1 (41:29):
No, really, Cooper was locking people up.

Speaker 4 (41:33):
Mike, Like, shit, I might have locking people up too,
but Coop, God damn, how many times I gonna give
it to him?

Speaker 1 (41:40):
You know what if that was any other Michael, I
would say something, but that's the MJ.

Speaker 3 (41:46):
That's the MJA, So I'm gonna leave that alone. But
you know what, Mike was a force in his own
but he's born of like stealing. Mike was look, I mean,
he was a good on ball defender, but Mike would
play that pass and lanes and do all that.

Speaker 1 (41:59):
Mike played D. He played D. Yeah, yeah, he didn't
like you giving that. No, Mike wasn't a denier and
it wasn't all that.

Speaker 3 (42:06):
But you know what, shit, as great as he became
on that offensive end, he had to conserve some energy.
You know, I could say, but I won a great
officer score, so I got to use all my energy
on that defensive end.

Speaker 1 (42:15):
So interesting.

Speaker 4 (42:18):
After retiring in nineteen ninety, he served as a special
assistant to Jered West for three years and also as
an assistant for the Lakers.

Speaker 1 (42:24):
How was that being back on a different side.

Speaker 3 (42:27):
Well, you know what, it was good because the Lakers
kept a lot of us in the folds so after
our playing days, and that's what I truly mean. Doctor
Buss was all about family. And you know, when you retired,
if you didn't want to be part of the Lakers.
You can go do whatever you want to, but I
still wanted to understand what coaching, the behind the scenes,
player contracts, that kind of stuff, and I wanted to

(42:48):
be involved with that. So got a chance to do
that and enjoyed it because I did get the chance
to really see who doctor Buss was, see who Jerry
west was, because when they come to the locker room
and they're happy after you kind of know. But I
got a chance to see him on the defeats when
we lost him, and the everyday workings of what the
Lakers was about. So it was enjoyable for me. I
really had a wonderful time and got paid pretty good.

Speaker 4 (43:12):
How did you what was the process of recruiting Shack
and getting them to sign a seven year, one twenty
million dollar deal.

Speaker 3 (43:18):
Well that was more so Jerry westleym they did that.
That was kind of like on them big big people.
They kind of like a couple to let you know
what's going on, but they go into the big.

Speaker 1 (43:27):
Man's office and close the door.

Speaker 3 (43:29):
But you know what, Shack And that's the great ability
that Jerry west had is the ability to attract those
superstars and even magic.

Speaker 1 (43:39):
You want to put him in the loop.

Speaker 3 (43:40):
He was the one that was able and when he
was the general manager for a little bit with the
Lakers or he was a president to go get Lebron.

Speaker 1 (43:49):
James. Lebron came here because of magic. So they still
have that kind of flare.

Speaker 3 (43:53):
But it takes a circuit certain individual to be able
to talk to a superstar player. And yeah, LA's a
good selling point, but sometimes it ain't all good behind
the scenes, and they.

Speaker 1 (44:03):
Were able to sell those type of players.

Speaker 3 (44:06):
And and the fact that Jerry had to wherewithal and
the eye to see a young man Kobe Bryant and
noticed this kid could play basketball.

Speaker 4 (44:16):
Just speaking of Kobe Brian, I heard the wax joass
and the pre draft workout.

Speaker 1 (44:19):
Jack, don't believe everything. To listen, I was forty one
years old. I was. That's real though, that's real.

Speaker 3 (44:33):
But no, that was probably, other than playing one of
the hardest things I've ever done a young Kobe. And
there was some certain things that you know, they wanted
him to work off pick and rolls, they wanted him
to get to the elbow, they wanted him to post
up that I had to kind of like take that away.
And after that I remember after that workout, I had
never sweated that hard in my life. And Uh, once

(44:56):
that that workout was over with Jerry goes U, I said, yeah,
I'm fine, man, he goes He's our kid, that's our pit.

Speaker 1 (45:05):
And they knew it. They knew it.

Speaker 3 (45:07):
And this kid here, man Kobe could play. He could play.
And that was the one thing I was very impressed
with him. Two things. One his strength as a nineteen
year old, he was strong man. I was working him
down that low post, and you know, he was not able.
I couldn't push him out of there too much. But
then again, he had that athleticism where he jump over
the top, but he always Jerry said, I need you
to get to the elbow, and he started him over here,

(45:30):
and with four or five dribbles, Kobe was able to
maneuver hisself and get to that shot. He didn't hit
every one, but he got to the spot. And Jack,
you know this as offensive player, cause Matt and I
were defensive players. If you get to your spot, it's
hard for people to guard you, and Kobe really showed
that and he exemplified that in that workout.

Speaker 2 (45:47):
Back to back w NBA Championships two thousand and one,
two thousand and two with the Sparks with least A
Leslie UH Coach of the Year in two thousand.

Speaker 1 (45:55):
What was that experience like transitioning over to coaching women.

Speaker 3 (45:58):
Well, I had star started hearing about that in ninety seven,
that the league was coming about, and when it officially
became here, I always say this, you know, women at
early ages are always smarter than us. You know, five
six year olds, they're always ten years you know, if
they're five or six, they're thinking like a ten or
eleven year old, so to go and to work out.

(46:19):
But before I actually coach them, I had a chance
to go to say no classes up at USC Summer League.
That's where I saw Tina Thompson, Chryl Swoops, least Or
Leslie play. So when the chance came that I got
a chance to coach them, it was great. I say,
there's two things about women that I really enjoyed coaching.
One they look better in their uniforms because we sometimes

(46:41):
look kind of sproungy, you know, big guys like that.
And two, they smell better when you come to the huddle,
you know, I mean, you know, you come in and
shot and sweating on you, and you got like that
and the guys smelling under armed. Women always smell good
when you come in. But they also can play the
game because they have to truly use all the fun
mental aspects of the game because they're below the rim.

(47:02):
Now they are, but back then they weren't jumping up
over the rim dunk. And so that was the joy
that I had with coaching women is you know, we
would go over plays and you guys know this, there're
one guy on your team where you can run a place.
I don't care how many times you run it, somebody's
always fuck it up. You had a squad though, Yeah,
women don't do that. You give them things. I could
run two plays and two times and after that everybody

(47:24):
got so I was able to move on to the
next one. Now, these guys, man, you gotta cut this way.
You know, you're always kind of checking them. But women,
I enjoyed it. So the one thing that they came
to be because I was trying to be cord Zone
with them. And I remember this. I'll never forget this.
Lisa Leslie came up to me in one of our practices.

(47:46):
I was like, come on, ladies, you got she said, cool,
fucking coach us.

Speaker 2 (47:50):
Coach us.

Speaker 3 (47:52):
I said, coach you, she said, cool, I want to learn,
coach us. That's the only way we're gonna get better.

Speaker 1 (47:57):
Now. I never cursed at them, because you don't have
to do that with women.

Speaker 3 (48:00):
But I got after them, and when I realized, okay,
this is how I go, that's.

Speaker 1 (48:05):
When we're able to turn the corner.

Speaker 3 (48:06):
Because you remember, back in ninety seven, Houston Comments was
the one winning all the chance trust me, Tina Thompson
and all them. So once I started coaching them and
we broke through and we were able to beat that
mighty comic team, then I kind of like, okay, this
is what they need. And then that's how we did.
Like I said, I never was a yellow or a cursor,
but they knew when I was upset, and I made

(48:28):
my corrections harshly with them and they benefited from that.

Speaker 4 (48:31):
But with all due respect, Lisa Leslie is one of
the best and beautiful human beings I've ever seen in
my life. Bro, every time we said the Big Three,
she's the same person. She's always in great moves. She
even knows, like if you're going through something through the week,
she'll pull you through the side and give you some encouragement,
like she just wanted them people like she's one of
those people that you always want to see bro because

(48:52):
she always got a good vibe about them.

Speaker 3 (48:54):
And that's how she's always been. That is how she's
always been. She was always helping her teammates. When she
got that job, because he had called and asked me
about the Big Three jobs, she was like, Coop, should
I take it? I said, Spoose, that would be perfect
for you these money because she knows how to communicate
with men. And but the thing is, she knows the
game and she's so staturesque and as always look good

(49:18):
all the new shoes, like she flying And I'm hating
because she's got more championships than me and the Big Three.

Speaker 1 (49:25):
I hated for that, but then she was also given
a good team. But yeah, she had Joe, the best
player the Big these exactly, Joe Johnson.

Speaker 2 (49:32):
But I like, so it took her coming up to you,
like Coop, coach us to kind of really kind of
get you in your groove as a coach.

Speaker 1 (49:39):
Yep, And that's you know, she.

Speaker 3 (49:43):
Uh. The one thing I got to give her is
that every year she had the ability to wear. You know,
back in the early two thousand, women had to supplement
their contract. They had to go to Europe, they had
to go to Russia and they had to go over
there for most of the year to make eight hundred
and nine hundred. Well, Lisa, you know the she was
doing off the course, so she stayed and Jack and Matt.

(50:05):
Every year she would come up before the season, goes, Coop,
I want to learn how to do this.

Speaker 1 (50:10):
I want to learn how to do that.

Speaker 3 (50:11):
And then our first, our second championship, she came and
she goes, Coop, I want to know how that Elijah
won drill works. You know that move Elijah won would
go baseline and do that and come back out on
that side. I said, okay, smooth. So I started watching
some film on him and she said, Coop, I got it.
So for four months, from October to February March, every

(50:34):
day we went over This is when the Lakers were practicing,
and we so we would get there at six in
the morning because they would practice at nine, and we'd
go for an hour. She would go do her weight program,
lift weights and stuff, and then we'd go over there
and we worked on that every day, free throw shooting,
three point shooting. And I was amazed by that because
not many guys will do that. But here she is

(50:54):
wanting to be one of the best players in the game.

Speaker 1 (50:57):
Man. And she worked on that.

Speaker 3 (50:58):
And we were play and the Charlotte Hornets in our
second championship.

Speaker 1 (51:03):
And she got the ball.

Speaker 3 (51:05):
She went baseline, She went like that and one of
them players jumped way over there.

Speaker 1 (51:10):
She came back out.

Speaker 3 (51:11):
I mean it was exactly like Elijah Walmer came back
out and hit it. When she hit that shot, I
stood up and she was pointing at me.

Speaker 1 (51:20):
I told you I could do it.

Speaker 3 (51:21):
I told you, And that there is a passion and
compassion she has to the game that she now takes
into her coaching.

Speaker 1 (51:27):
Was Don Sty There was this thing, right, yeah.

Speaker 3 (51:29):
That was Don So Lisa was man, I tell everybody this.
She and I think Ann Myers possibly could, Nancy possibly could,
but Lisa Leslie could play in the NBA if she
could handle the physicality.

Speaker 1 (51:46):
You know. We used to go play up.

Speaker 3 (51:49):
Up at U s CLA used to have open runs
and we would go play and I would tell the
guys the first two or three runs because magic was
rent in the gym and he had his travel team
up there.

Speaker 1 (51:58):
I said, dudes, just.

Speaker 3 (52:00):
Play her, don't play her physical, just player, and they
you know, I mean, they still be physical, but they
wouldn't have a hand checker.

Speaker 1 (52:07):
Man. You at least she used to give it to them.

Speaker 3 (52:09):
Threes pump face, and she wasn't afraid to go inside either.
And once her teams start winning, then that macho shit
come back out of you. And okay, I got to
put some owner and they start banging on her and
then she's off balance and she would miss her shots.
But if she could handle the physicality, she could be
the one woman that could play in this game. But
the game is just very difficult for women, you know,

(52:30):
with hand checking and all that.

Speaker 2 (52:32):
Yeah, a lot of people give Angel Rees and Kaylyn
Clark a credit for the boom of the WNBA this
past season. Do you see any similarities to their boom
to the boom the Magic and Bird brought to the
NBA in the eighties. Yeah, are doing similar I.

Speaker 3 (52:45):
Think this young lady, Caitlyn Clark, you really getting to
see her explode. I think she's gonna be probably the
first WNBA player that averaged like about thirty four to
thirty five the game. I think she got that kind
of potential. Angel is another player that's just gonna be athlete,
and I think all players in the w NBA are

(53:08):
only getting better. That's gonna take that that that lead
to the next level. I'm waiting for Juju to come
a young lady at USC have you seen her?

Speaker 1 (53:18):
That what.

Speaker 3 (53:21):
Waiting for her to come into the lead, because he
is gonna be the explosion. Caitlyn Nember doing a wonderful
job because you got a lot of the super birds
and Diana Tarassi, they're getting ready to exit now because
they're the vet players now and this new blood to
come in because they understand how to play the game.
And I think that's what Lisa, Tina Thompson Cynthia Cooper

(53:42):
did at the two thousand level. They brought that that
strong NBA kind of play to open the league up.
But now you get ready to see some people play
basketball now, and I'm excited to see you.

Speaker 4 (53:55):
It's a couple of young girls that's in the eighth
ninth grade that's dunking off.

Speaker 1 (53:59):
That's what I'm saying.

Speaker 4 (54:00):
Yeah, so I got a ten year old that's tall,
so okay, Yeah, yeah, she a problem already.

Speaker 1 (54:06):
Form goat milk. She found a game. I love it
and see I tell people all the time.

Speaker 3 (54:11):
They told me this because Phil Jackson won't a big
fan of the WNBA, because I used to. In two
thousand we were only I think we might be the
only w NBA team to win a championship the same
time in the NBA in two thousand and won. The
Lakers won and we won. So they brought that kind
of tough basketball. But you get ready to see this

(54:33):
league go to a whole another level. And people used
to say back then, all this league will be here
five years. They'd be here, I'd be And I used
to tell Phil, Hey, Phil, want to come to the
Phil couldn't do it, Phil Jackson, I said, Phil, come
on to a wn big game. Sit you on the court. Goop,
women can't play basketball, I said, Phil, come on, Oh, Coop,
I can't go. So I never could change him, but

(54:56):
I got close. But I did hear him say now
that women can play the game. So he's changing. But yeah,
you getting ready to see basketball go to another stage.

Speaker 4 (55:06):
On a serious note, cancer, scare you die? You was
diagnosed with with tongue cancer in twenty fourteen. How are
you doing now and did that change your perspective on
how you look at life?

Speaker 1 (55:17):
Doing good now? Matt, Yes, I'm glad to hear that.
Me glad to hear that because you're my guy. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (55:26):
You know, I had a tongue cancer and no one
in my family has ever had that. And what happened
is I was traveling, and you know how when you're
eating food and you bite your tongue a little bit
and it doesn't heal, and you know, your mouth is
one of the fastest healing parts of your body.

Speaker 1 (55:45):
But this was just kind of hanging on. It never
got ugly, didn't turn green. It's just like a little slit.

Speaker 3 (55:50):
And what made me become more aware of it was
I was drinking water about maybe eight days afterwards, and
it started burning. I said, you know what, let me
go to the e and T So I go there,
and I'm in Atlanta now, and I go to Imbry
Hospital and I go there and the doctor comes in.
He looks at it, and the other doctor comes in
and they look at it on the side, on this

(56:12):
side of my tongue, and he goes back out, and
then she comes back in with a trade with a knife.

Speaker 1 (56:17):
So knife and the.

Speaker 3 (56:19):
Thing, and I go, well, what are you gonna do
with that? She goes, oh, you have cancer. That's tongue cancer.
We have to do a biopsy. I said, so what
is it about. Oh we have to cut a piece
of it. I said, wait a minute. So long story short,
I ended up leaving, came out here to La went
to the City of Hope and everything got taken care of.

Speaker 1 (56:38):
It.

Speaker 3 (56:38):
Found out that it wasn't as bad. But they ended
up having to take out probably a fingernail on my
tongue and on this.

Speaker 1 (56:46):
Side here you can't see it.

Speaker 3 (56:47):
I got a scar fifty seven lymph notes they took out,
and then I ended up having to do radiation and
that was the worst. But everything, but long story short,
everything's good and now was just about preventive. I've been
through the whole thing. And now I go to the
City Hope probably once every six months, and I go
to doctor Mugambi out there and uh, she does my

(57:10):
check up.

Speaker 1 (57:11):
But I'm good.

Speaker 3 (57:12):
And I tell everybody, now, man, that is when something's
wrong with you. I feel something, you don't feel right,
go go to the doctor, you know.

Speaker 4 (57:21):
So we both coaching uh, Big Three. Obviously, I'm the
only back to back champion as a coach. I say again,
I'm the only.

Speaker 1 (57:31):
Back to back coach as a champion you know out
there that I did. But now exact that's why I
hate you, because you know what the thing with you
is that you don't have great talent. You got players
that play fucking hard, get dogs, that's it. And uh, yeah,
you might not win every year, but we're gonna compete. Yeah.
How was that experience, you know, uh, actually coaching in

(57:53):
the Big Three and also working with Cbe.

Speaker 3 (57:55):
I love that, man, I mean Cbe. When I first
even thought about that, I saw Clyde. I was going
to the airport, walking through the airport in Atlanta, coming
to LA and I saw Clyde and Clyde was like Coop.
I said, Clyde, what are you doing all on the
commission of the Big Three? And I said, well, let's go.
He say, Coop, have some more teams that they get ready.
This was early and he said think about it. So
I remember getting back home about a week later and

(58:17):
Qube called me, and I love Cube man. I've always
been a big fan of his. Listen to his music,
but to see that he was bringing something that was very,
very unique to basketball. Because if what Cube has started,
it goes back to the playground and you sue, you
ain't got five people, You got three of your board,
two of your boys, and you go to another neighborhood, Hey,
let's go three on three. And to have that concept

(58:40):
become a reality I thought was so unique. So now
he's putting it into play with all these players. So
being part of the Big Three has been a big
change in my life because it lets me look at
basketball a little bit more different because we're always looking
at it either one on one or five on five. Well,
three on three gives you a different perspective of it.
And what I like about it is not a lot

(59:02):
of coaching and Jack, that's why I hate you, because
you're a good recruiter and you always go find them
diming in the rough somewhere. Well, I just kind of like,
get the biggest guys. And it's not about that about
height in the Big Three. I mean it helps a
little bit, but you got having people that can play
together as a team and work. And I always congratulate

(59:24):
you a trilogy, right, yep, your insignia.

Speaker 1 (59:27):
It's nice it got the three eyes and the three head. Yeah,
and I got Three's.

Speaker 3 (59:31):
Company the championship this year though we did, but it
was uh yeah, well anyway, another story. But the Big
Three has been a blessing in disguise and I'm just
glad to be part of it. And I thought this
year that they should have had the Olympics and some
days would have went about you know what, the Big
Three that we've sent over there should have been from
the Big Three exactly.

Speaker 4 (59:52):
So you know, three on three is more more played
around the world, and five on five, one on one anything.

Speaker 3 (59:57):
So you've got a great product, and I think he's
expanding it. I like the little additions he's got thrown
in there, bring the fire and things like that. That's
uh that gives you that old one on one nasty play. Okay,
bring the fire, fire, Okay, here's the ball, buttherfuck, let's
go one on one me and you and I love
that aspect.

Speaker 1 (01:00:15):
I just wish we could get more.

Speaker 2 (01:00:16):
Of them too, So j Q, for sure, Well, Coop,
we appreciate you. We know you're on a clock, so
we got quick hitters. We're gonna get you out of here.
So first thing to come to mind.

Speaker 1 (01:00:25):
Let us know five best perimeter defenders of all.

Speaker 3 (01:00:28):
Time, Michael Cooper of course, Nate McMillan, McKim, Babe Mutombo,
Alvin Roberts, An Roberts, and I'm gonna throw Michael Jordan
in there.

Speaker 1 (01:00:43):
Yeah, show him in there.

Speaker 2 (01:00:45):
We've got people in this building that have been petitioning
to get Lebron James a Laker statue. Will Lebron have
a Laker statue when it's all said and done, I.

Speaker 1 (01:00:52):
Think it will.

Speaker 3 (01:00:53):
I think he's a lead all time lead score, and
Lebron is doing some things that uh uh, I don't
think anybody. I think he's gonna play till he's forty one.
But he's doing things man, that you know a lot
of kids don't do twenty two twenty three in the league. Man,
I do think he needs one. He's already broke. The
only player to play with his son, and how many

(01:01:15):
of us would love to have done that, played one
time his son, didn't play a lot, but just to
get out there on the court with them and play
up and down. But yeah, he, uh, Lebron will have
get a statue.

Speaker 4 (01:01:25):
Bron knows that these motherfuckers are playing against soft too.
Say again, Braun came into the league, was a little rough,
but he know that the game now is super soft,
so he can cruise through a lot of ship bro.
I'm telling you because he played in both eras, so
he know how soft this game is.

Speaker 1 (01:01:40):
Ray were watching what year was that? Right? Me and
Ray were watching some throwback ship eleven bro. I slammed Lebron.
I got footage of it. I slammed him. He tried.
I grabbed him and slammed him right here. That nigga,
anybody doing that to him? Trained. He was just floating
out there, strong, floating. Yeah, was crazy.

Speaker 3 (01:02:00):
But he played bully ball now. I mean he's straight
out just bullies them. Man, you get it away? What
did you what she does to do?

Speaker 1 (01:02:07):
But look at you, guys. Do you think he could
have played in our era?

Speaker 4 (01:02:10):
Yeah, we ain't see nobody six eight, two seventy with
the forty is vertical.

Speaker 3 (01:02:15):
We ain't never seen that no time. Well, the closest
one would be Carl Malone. But he didn't have that
vert like. He wasn't like yeah no, no, I ran
that wise, scoring wise. I ran it that for a
couple of times. And that she's still hurt to think
about it. He was strong, Yeah, and he could score.

Speaker 1 (01:02:31):
That's it. Well, that's what I'm saying. I mean that
the male man.

Speaker 3 (01:02:36):
That motherfucker was delivering a lot of times. Yeah yeah, rain,
sleep and snow there. Yeah, but those are some good ones.

Speaker 1 (01:02:48):
Yeah, childhood crush, You got child crush? Who was the
child crush she passed away? Who was she? Yeah? Her
name was Melo. Yeah, she was somebody from your neighborhood
or my neighborhood. Okay, yeah he was that one. She
was that one.

Speaker 3 (01:03:08):
Smile, she was that one to my prom Oh really
and she wouldn't give it up, but yeah, that's always
the one and give it up.

Speaker 1 (01:03:19):
That just started so old school and she wouldn't give
it up.

Speaker 3 (01:03:21):
But I was like that sad little puppy used to
following around the campus and stuff in the neighborhood.

Speaker 2 (01:03:25):
I go buy a house and walk, buy a house
of person, whatever it takes. Rest in Peace. One album
that you could play.

Speaker 3 (01:03:33):
With No Skips, kind of Blue, Miles Davis, Miles David
and That's Ship All Blue, kind of Blue and Freddy
free Loader Freddy Freeloader Skip. I got a brand new
copy it out Freddy Freeload.

Speaker 1 (01:03:47):
I got to check that out, Freddy freeloaded.

Speaker 4 (01:03:49):
One guess that you would like to see on All
the Smoke, but you have to help us get your
answer on the show.

Speaker 2 (01:03:55):
Somebody you know, you think would be good on this
show that we'll talk ship with us, like, hey, Kareem
said he would do it.

Speaker 1 (01:04:02):
We just have to go to Orange County. I go whatever.

Speaker 4 (01:04:05):
I want to pray with him one time, smoke with
y'all too. I want to pray with him, my muslins,
I want to pray with it. I just want to
say I pray with him.

Speaker 1 (01:04:11):
Kareem will smoke with us too. Yeah, I appreciate that.
Helps with that. Yeah, yeah, I appreciate that.

Speaker 4 (01:04:16):
And I'm cool, huh. I pray and smoking not be crazy.
But Coop, we can rely on Coop. See I see Cooper,
and Cooper's a side of dude. There's a lot of
people that come ahead and say stuff and we never
see him again. But we can rely on Coop, y'all.

Speaker 2 (01:04:29):
With Coop for a long time, cool Man came and
talk to us at you see when we and we
and Rave Refreshman.

Speaker 1 (01:04:35):
On another level with him. Yeah, Kareem bringing hard yeah, yeah,
I'm with this. I want to learn. I want to
learn something. He likes things from the past, history, you.

Speaker 4 (01:04:46):
Know, even doing the George Floyd stuff he's been. I
want to talk to him about that type of stuff,
what he thought about all that. You know, I would
love to talk.

Speaker 1 (01:04:51):
To Karean well. Coop Man.

Speaker 2 (01:04:52):
We appreciate you, obviously, love and respect what you meant.
I mean, I grew up a Laker fan and getting
a chance to know you early when I was in
college and throughout, Like Jackson, you've always been a solid
stand up. We appreciate you, man, So thank you for
your time today.

Speaker 1 (01:05:05):
Again.

Speaker 2 (01:05:05):
Congratulations on on the on the Hall of Fame. Long
overdue respect.

Speaker 3 (01:05:11):
And I would shake Jack's hand, but we stocked some
unfinished business here, and I know we still got to
go at each other.

Speaker 1 (01:05:16):
So I'm gonna keep the cords again. Jack gonna get
part of the league said he's said, fuck Jack. But man,
that's a wrap.

Speaker 2 (01:05:26):
Michael Cooper, you can catch us on the DraftKings Network
in the All the Spoke productions.

Speaker 1 (01:05:29):
You too. We'll see y'all next week. You mm hmmm
mm hmmm.