Ryan Coogler’s Untold Chadwick Memories, Collaborating with Kendrick & Ranking MJ, Kobe & LeBron

Ryan Coogler opens up about his journey from D1 football to becoming one of Hollywood’s most visionary directors. He shares untold stories about his bond with Michael B. Jordan, working with Chadwick Boseman, and collaborating with Kendrick Lamar and Childish Gambino. Plus, he reflects on the impact of Fruitvale Station, building all-star casts, and whether a football film is in his future.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
M mm hmmm.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
Mm hmmm. Welcome back all the smoke man. This one
is a long time coming. All this kind of transpired
from sports first and foremost. Welcome to the show. Ryan
cooler Man, thank you for your time, bro having Yeah,
but we go back a little deeper than wrap. You

(00:41):
know what I mean. You were you You went to
junior college with my little brother.

Speaker 3 (00:45):
I was in It was in big boy college stage.

Speaker 2 (00:48):
He went to college with my brother. And it was funny.
I hit him this morning because he was just at
the house yesterday, but he had to bounce shen't even many. Yeah,
but he's good. He's in DC doing some some some
business stuff there with his family. It's like, you got
these funny stories of Ryan and anything. I could just
pop on him and he's like, he's like, Bro, to
be honest with you. He's like, Ryan was the dude
that set the bar. He said, if Ryan didn't have

(01:09):
the hand injury, you couldn't tell me that he wasn't
going pro. And he's like, you were the one that
was always first in the weight room before practice, after practice.
You just did all the right shit. You were locked
into your books. He's like, Ryan didn't really start kicking
it till after college. Like Ryan during college was really
locked in. So it kind of makes sense now he's
like I've never seen he's like the most insane work

(01:30):
ethic I've ever seen. Because my brother talking about you.
So it's just like you've been able to transfer, you
know what. It sparked something in my mind because our
last conversation with Kobe, he just like, you know, we're
built for this business shit, Like we take our athlete
mentality and plug it into this world. Yeah, and it's
a go. I think you're a perfect example of that.

Speaker 3 (01:50):
Bro. I appreciate you. Giant man, Jason bron He was
such an incredible player man and a good dude. You
know what I'm saying. I met you with your older brother.

Speaker 2 (02:01):
That's how we met.

Speaker 3 (02:02):
And I'm a big brother myself. I got two little brothers,
and just as a representative of you, you know what
I'm saying, he held that down for sure. And we
met at your house. Like I'll never forget, Bro.

Speaker 2 (02:13):
I didn't even know my brother James, Like you know
that's bro, Like he's been at the house.

Speaker 3 (02:20):
I'm like, oh, this is the thing. This was crazy
because I came in here I just sat down on
your college because I like furniture and I always have.
And I remember, I remember Jason used to used to
look out for your brother, Bro. He used to be
iced out and and had the nice young you know
what I'm saying. And his locker was next to mine,
and I never wanted to be in his. I never

(02:41):
wanted to be in his in his business, you know.
You know what I'm saying. Because we met, we met
that season because he was like he was like a
mill yard transfer, you know what I'm saying. He was
an incredible player, bro. You know, he had all he
had all of the intangibles to go with his size
and leave an ability, you know what I'm saying. And
people because because y'all from Sack, we have a lot
of sacked people around there. The celth which Man's big brother,

(03:03):
you for me out of the Yeah, I was just
impressed with him on the field, you know what I'm saying.
Enjoy having somebody here I can up my game, you know,
because I'm I'm just under five team, you know, so
I couldn't get that I could jump with say a
corner was with six one six two. You know what
I'm saying I had to put him down to that.
So it was nice having somebody with that work, with
that leaping ability. I can come underneath you feel me.

(03:23):
So we got to know each other just from from
the ball. And then one day he's like, hey, bro, leta
taking We're gonna go to my brother house. Man. He
gave me, he gave me to go ahead. I can
take a few of y'all. You know what I'm saying.
So I'm like, I'm like, back, we get to your house.
Bread Earlier, I couldn't I couldn't believe what was what
you had in there. Bro. I squared a guy.

Speaker 2 (03:41):
Bro.

Speaker 3 (03:41):
We pull up and it's and it's a bobcat digging
off where your basketball courtter is gonna go. And as Jackson,
I said, bro to y'all, like did the construction team
leave this year? My brothers we're doing that. I say,
your brother moved brought a bock cat and he's like, man, yeah,
Like like I'm just like mind blowing. So niggas get
that hooping and I'm like, I'm trying to get inside. Broke.

(04:02):
I'm tired, you know, I' saying like I want to
lay down, you know, you know, what I'm saying. So
you let me in and I see the fire train
of couch. I'm like, bron, can I can I take
a nap on this? He's like, man, yeah, you good.
You had the barber the Barbara ad cheering there, you
know what I'm saying. Like, I'm like, I'm like, look,
I'm like, man, this goes, Bro. I'm looking around to
see what I'm gonna do when I get on, you know,
and I lay down, Bro, I never forget I lay down.

Speaker 2 (04:23):
Bro.

Speaker 3 (04:23):
Just when I get comfortable, I hear the door open
up and it's you. And I'm in there like Goldie locks.
You know what I'm saying, and like you know and
uh and you come in and you're looking and I'm like,
what's uping?

Speaker 2 (04:35):
Man?

Speaker 3 (04:35):
You're like, man, who is you? I'm like, I'm like,
I'm Jason for me? They outside hoop and he's like okay, okay,
and You're like, man, where you from brom chopping. I'm
telling you about the front of the band everything, And
I remember, Bro, you were so you were so kind. Bro.
You know you need anything to eat? Man, know how
it is, you know on scholarship and this before the
n I ls yeah, you know, bro, we ate good,
but we hooped all day. You came on and watched this.

(04:56):
Watch this hoop one of my finest memories, bro. You know,
for for for real and and just seeing it, you know,
like you don't get the she somebody who made it?
You know, you know what I'm saying. Who was cautial
to our age? You feel me like coming up, we'll
go to the Brian Shaw camp or you know what
I'm saying, she Gary or you know what I'm saying.
But like and you you as you you look like us,

(05:18):
you know what I'm saying, And you s you do
it and do it right there and shot and that
she was one of my She was one of my
finest movies. I can't thank you enough for that.

Speaker 2 (05:25):
Now that's dope because I mean, obviously I remember as
my brothers tell me, then as you tell me. Now
you know, it becomes more clear. But it's just like
when when your success started hitting. My brother's like like
he's dope now, Like you don't even play football no more.
He does production and one day you guys need to work.
He's he was already trying to plug you on the
other side. When I was still playing and then he
hit me one day. It's like Fruitvale Station. You got

(05:47):
to see it. So I seen. I was like, oh,
sh was dope.

Speaker 3 (05:49):
Who is it?

Speaker 2 (05:49):
That's the home you met? It's like what And from
there it just kind of it took off. So you
were able to take again that that that focused, that
mindset from sports and apply it in this field. And
obviously we've seen the finished product. But what was what
was the beginning transition?

Speaker 3 (06:04):
Like for you? Such a good question, bro it was
It was difficult, man. Like It's funny, brou I had.
I had a homie who uh, who I played football with,
who was from l A. Was a lot of La
catch on that team. And I remember when I when
I realized I wanted to apply that as she you know,
I went down with him, uh to LA just to
see it because it's hard for me to It's hard
for me to jump to something if I can't see

(06:26):
it first, you know what I'm saying. And I've always
been like that, man, I had to. I don't know
if it was like that for you. You was at UCLA.
It was a history of people going to the lead
from there. You see it, but it's tough to like say,
I want to be a filmmaker. I want to go
to this school, but I ain't never really been in
LA like that, you know, I never seen the campus
or nothing. So I had homies that that uh that
that you know from Los Angeles that let me come

(06:47):
down there for for a few weeks and stay with
their family, go visit the campus, and making that decision
to leave football alone and go you know, full time
with filmmaking. Bro. It came as a result of an injury,
you know what I'm saying, Like I tore my hand
up that last year, so I didn't get to finished
with Jason. But I came back the next year and

(07:10):
we were doing seven on seven in the summer and Brough.
I'm not gonna lie to you, but I was having
like that. I was having like the off season of
my life. Bro. I was healthy, getting faster, stronger, you
know what I'm saying, Like like, we had a great
offense and I'm off there with a cat that's trying
to walk on and he hit me on a post
on a post route over eager. You know, I'm say,
I don't think it was his fault, but he but

(07:31):
he connected with you know, elbow, my my, my, my
face here, and I broke my cheek bomb and it
sat me down for like I want to say, two months.
I couldn't do no football activities. I ended up playing
that that season, but it was it was two much
or I couldn't do nothing. I couldn't do anything but
support the teammates from the sideline. And that was when
I did my application for film school. That was when

(07:53):
I was when I didn't have nothing, no excuse, you
know what I'm saying, not to this age twenty one. Okay, yeah,
I'm twenty one. Let's change my life. One of the inergy.
It was like injury that was like a good thing
to happened to me. Ended up having a good season,
h but my mind was on that. It was on
that filmmaking. Bro, you know what I'm saying Like that,
like that, like that bug had hit and got accepted.

(08:14):
I think right after we play you see Davis, I
got the news and then decided I'm going and moved
to La and Bro, it was hard, man like being
away from the family, being away from my team, and
the biggest thing, which which you know, I'm so pleased
to see you and all the other athletes I admire navigate.

(08:36):
It was like the loss of my identity navigating that
because because people are asking me, who are you? What
you do it? I would always sound a football player
player that's gone. Now you know, I'm in LA and
I'm in film school, Like that doesn't translate. You know
what I'm saying, and nobody knows me. You know, you
know what I'm saying, Like like when you know you
play sports, bro, it's like that's also yeah, yeah, even
if they don't know you, they know you. You know,

(08:56):
you know what I'm saying. Now what's gone? And it
left me feeling feeling pretty empty, Bro, I'm not gonna
cap like uh so, so I had to you know,
find a new way of making relationships and working on
set and realized it was kind of a team structure.
And that also realized my experience as an athlete and

(09:17):
that with me to be able to out work anybody
who I'm mean question you know what I'm saying, Like
people would complain about about twelve hour days and like,
you know for us, bro to life, yeah, you're never off,
you know, you know what I mean? Like I did
appreciate that aspect of you, you know, and and I
just I just kind of looked at everything from an
athletic perspective, like people would talk about, oh man, that

(09:39):
would bring me in classes. This is the most competitive
environment you're ever gonna be in. Like I was just like, like, what,
ain't nobody trying to hit me? Hurt me? You know
what I'm saying. You know, you know the vibe with somebody,
you know, when you're playing sports, somebody actively trying to
stop you coming on physically physically. You know what I'm saying.
You was enforced, bro, So you know you playing games

(10:00):
with a target on your back, you know, you know
what I'm saying. And you got to go earn money
for your family. Well that's another version of you that
that that that would earn stripes if they knock Matt
Barnes out the game. Let me sit Matt Barnes on
his ass. That's that's me doing my job right. It's
none of that in this, you feel me. It's really
just the time and money, you know what I'm saying.
So I was looking around like I could really I could,

(10:21):
you know, I could really do something here, you know.
And it was helpful for me to go straight from
from from from sports to film once I was able
to navigate the mental you know what I'm saying. And
then there's so many like filmmakers, we're athletes, bro Like,
not all of them talk about it, but when you
when you really when I get with him, I realized, Yeah,
I realized, all yeah, like Ramel Ross was just the

(10:43):
Nickel Boys, and he played at Georgetown. You know I'm saying,
he hooked that Georgetown to Barry Jenkins. You know it
was a football player in Miami, you know what I'm saying.
And Terrence Nash play played football in college. You realize
that there's a lot of crossovers. And I admire y'allro
because because I'm watching y'all like make this like the
damn you're a seamless transition. H to the point where
you know, like Drake got podcast while you're right, it's different,

(11:05):
like it's it's.

Speaker 2 (11:07):
It's a new time. You know, it's a new time
because again, you know you came up in there. I'm
only what four or five years older than you, Like,
stick to your stick to your job, shut up and
dribble play for whatever you do, do it and it's
a time and age now obviously that that doesn't apply.
I feel like as athletes like it clicks like Okay,
I can do this as a filmmaker. At what point
for you did you feel like, Okay, I can make this.

(11:30):
This this could be my career.

Speaker 3 (11:31):
Man, keep it a hunted bro. It was people. It
was people shaying it to me.

Speaker 2 (11:36):
Like outside people.

Speaker 3 (11:37):
Yeah, people will watch something that I made and and
and they would shay, oh man, like man, you got something.
This is really good because to me, what I was
making was not good. You know, I'm comparing it to
what I'm saying when I go to the movies. You
feel me. But it was also like my football teammates, bro,
like that was in my first movies, you know, and
they would get fired up like that was in on it,

(11:59):
like like your success. Yeah, when I put my application in,
they was all like, hey man, you hurt back yet
you know what I'm saying that actually say anything yet
like when you get your you know, like and then
when I got in, bro, and I'll never forget. But
they celebrated like we want a championship, you know what
I'm saying. Like like because your brother was it was
it was a year after your brother had graduated but

(12:20):
I remember where his locker was. Bro like like like this,
he's just fine. You know these people become your family,
you know, you know what I'm saying. And and Bro,
that the day I got in, Bro, when I told everybody, man,
you you would have thought, you know, it was it
was champions. You thought we want everything. And still to
this day, like I'm finna have a screen in the

(12:40):
night and it's showing, I'm gonna pull up, you know,
you know what I mean. They got families now, and
babies and and and the kids watch my movies. You know.
You know what I mean. All that to say, man
like to see y'all bro navigate that she could because
because I was not a big time player, but it
was one double a school. You know what I'm saying, Bro,
for for for for NBA player to retire, you know

(13:05):
what I'm saying. The identity crisis that that much, that
that much caused because I had it when I was
you know, I was small potatoes compared. You know what
I'm saying to she, y'all like garbage lane, Bro, like
straight in the media, and how the impact that y'all
haven't you feel me?

Speaker 2 (13:24):
I was lucky with that to be honest with you
and just personally speaking. I got to a point where
we had won a championship in Golden State in seventeen
and I still had two years.

Speaker 3 (13:33):
Yeah, that's the that's the I'm just real quick, real quick.

Speaker 2 (13:42):
That's the first thing he pointed out of here.

Speaker 1 (13:46):
Yeah, yes, sir, I don't know about that. Yeah, it's different.
I don't legendary team.

Speaker 3 (13:58):
Hey, I don't know about that.

Speaker 2 (14:00):
They would think that team won a championship. We didn't
do shit with when the first.

Speaker 3 (14:02):
Hey, we knocked off Darkness it.

Speaker 2 (14:06):
Yeah, but I mean, you know, to my point, I
mean I still had two years left on my deal,
but I think I was ready for what was next.
You know, I had fifteen years behind me. I wanted
to be more present in my kids' lives, and I
was ready to make that jump. So when I made
that decision to retire, it was like, Okay, what am
I going to do? I've made some investments that I
was solid with. I was a big cannabis advocate, so
I'm going back and forth to the league talking about

(14:28):
the league, you know, reevaluating their policies, and a friend
of mine, I was like, you should do media you
know your world so well spoken, you should try media.
I was like, no, I don't really fuck with the media,
Like will change that, change that tone? You know, although
this to you a girlfriend of mine, a girlfriend of mine,
you should say, you're so well spoken, you should try it.
I was like nah, nah nah, And I tried and
I loved it, and I think the authenticity I played

(14:51):
with I traveled, you know, I brought that to this
and I caught lighting in a bottle and was able to,
you know, thankfully get my hard knocks on ESPN. I'm
on the Yeah. So I'm transitioning from the league. And
I was a role player, no mistake, and I wasn't
no star, didn't try to claim to be a star.
I was a role player. But I transitioned right to
like the media giant of ESPN, you know what I mean.

(15:11):
It From there, I'm just like, okay, I can start
doing this.

Speaker 3 (15:14):
And I remember she bro, because for me, I know
that that teleor Procter is there. It was different, like
that teleor Procter is no joke. And then she and
you shan you handle that, bro. I remember. I'm like,
I'm like, DN, there you go, look at you.

Speaker 2 (15:32):
Yea, was just that transition, Like you said, some people
get lost in it and and and to be confident
and and go for what I went for. And you know,
ship five years later, now you know, I'm proud. It's
a little one where we got our first building and
we got our own set, little company, and it's moving
you come out the gates. Although I know it wasn't
your first project, it's the first project that the world
really got to see in Fruitville Station. Why was it

(15:53):
important for you to base your first project where you
came from?

Speaker 3 (15:56):
It's a great question, bro. Like I pitched Forrest Whittaker
three projects, was one of them, and I was the
one I believed in the most. I was still in
film school, man. I was literally left class to go
sit down with his producer, and then left left class
again and go sit down with him. And I was
blessed that that, like one of the projects that I
made while I was in film school, which nobody would
ever see, it impressed the teacher there, who then remembered

(16:19):
me years later when when when somebody from Forest Whiticker's
production company reached out and said, hey, man, is it
any young filmmakers we should need.

Speaker 2 (16:26):
To know, really, this is after you had already get left.

Speaker 3 (16:29):
I was still It was with the guy he made
rest in Peach where he passed during the pandemic. His
name is Jed Dunnenbaum. He taught me my first semester
when I was at that first semester when I left
football and went to film school in LA He was
my directing teacher. And one of the first projects that
I made in that class, he pulled me to the
side and was like, hey, man, you got something. He

(16:49):
was like, how did you think come up with this idea?
You know? And he and I got close, you know,
he made a recommendation for me to Forest Whiticker's production company.
Forest Whicker's production company was run by the woman named
Nina Yang bon Jovi. She married to one of the
bon Jovi's. She shat me down and and and you
know kind of said, hey, well, movies you're trying to make,

(17:10):
you know, And Frewville was one of the ones that
I was I was working on, and they they said, hey,
let's make that one. I had a homie, uh named
Ephraim Walker, who's a filmmaker now, but he was he
was a law student as she at the time. He
went to James Logan in Union City High School, wrestled there,
went to Howard. I think he wrestled out of Howard.

Speaker 2 (17:30):
Is he fun with Deon Taylor now from Yeah?

Speaker 3 (17:33):
Yeah bro, yeah so so. So Ephraim was working on
that case. He was he was interning with John Burst
and then he started he was working full time for
them and a guy named Dante Poynter.

Speaker 2 (17:44):
You know.

Speaker 3 (17:45):
They all in the office in East Oakland, not far
from my wife was working at the time, and so
I was, you know, going back and forth from there
and and you know, getting getting to know John Bursch
and then got to know the family, and then you know,
we made made the film. And I think the film's
impact because it was it was a very low budget
independent film. But I was able to be very potent

(18:05):
with that with that money because I knew the world,
you know what I'm saying. I didn't have to spend
time researching the world. I was just researching the people,
you know what I'm saying, And we were able to
we're able to execute that, uh. And I think that
knowledge of the Bay Area helped me to make a
better film about it. You fast forward to Creed, which
is my next project. You know, I was making a

(18:26):
movie about a place I didn't know in Philly, So
I had to do that work to get to know it,
to get to know the sport of boxing, and to
get to know that city, you know what I'm saying.
And it was important to me because you know, I'll
be I'll be uh, I'll be crushed if we put
a movie out about a place you know and people say, hey,
y'all got it wrong that that that would that would
kill me because you know, people getting good and cali wrong.

(18:47):
You know what I'm saying, I get us twisted all
the time. And and a lot of that is is
media produced. That that's that's that's being done by people
who know who don't know it from there and you know,
gott to be from there. But but if you're not,
you do have to take the time to get to
know you know, you know what I mean. It was
a lesson in It was a lesson in like really

(19:08):
really doing the doing the research.

Speaker 2 (19:09):
Inticity of it. Yeah, your partner in crime, Michael B. Yeah,
he's been by your side since the beginning. How did
you guys come together as friends and brothers and then
how did that chemistry translate into Yeah, I mean.

Speaker 3 (19:21):
We met through the work. You know, I was looking
for an actor to Portrayosky Grant Russian. He was the
guy I thought you could do it. You know. Uh,
he kind of looked had the appearance, had that had
the at the age and tangibles. But then when I
met with him, I saw something special in the man,
like in mis a former athlete. You know, he grew
up as a child actor, but he also grew up

(19:41):
hooping and running track and been jumping he you know,
So he and I had that had that had that
athletic shorthand immediately, and I recognized him somebody who was
who is trying to push himself, pushed the medium, that
that healthy kind of ambition. You know what I'm saying,
That that you that you need petitive side. Yeah, bro,

(20:02):
it's necessary, you know what I'm saying. And he had
all those things. And then when we started to work together,
it was a great great chemistry there, bro like and
in our business brought if I broke you know what
I'm saying, you don't fix you.

Speaker 2 (20:15):
I remember vividly when you invited me up to the
Disney lot, when you were working on Black Panther, and
we walked around and we just, you know, we keep
it what we said we talked about, we can keep
to us. But just looking around, Bro, that was a
whole nother monster. Yeah, and you're young black man from
Oakland on Disney's campus, running from building the building, creating

(20:38):
one of the biggest movies ever. Like when you kind
of look back. Obviously, as athletes, we don't really look back.

Speaker 3 (20:44):
Until we're trained to keep it going.

Speaker 2 (20:47):
But at the same time, I just know, I mean,
obviously with the success of that and as you continue
to grow each project in each film, take us back
through that time when you were making that in your
first time on that campus and moving from big room
to sound stage to this to that. You look at
this and I'm just like in awe. Like I'm a
former professional athlete, been around, everyone's seeing the world and
I'm walking on Disney campus. But you just looking around

(21:08):
and we're both kind of in awe.

Speaker 3 (21:09):
Yeah, I mean it was a special time, bro, Like
you can't you can't really recreate at that time. It's interesting, bro,
because I was talking with I was talking with James
Shamuel and and Hole and they was talking about the
quality of magic being in the air at certain times,
you know, and you knowing all he was talking about

(21:29):
when he when he made a reasonable doubt and the
fact that Niles was making something like Ellmatic, what was doing,
what they was doing, Big was making Ready to Die.
You know, it was it was in the air, That's
how it was. And Frankly and Los Angeles at that time,
you know what I'm saying, Jordan has has just made
Get Out. Ava was on campus, she was making Wrinkle,

(21:52):
but she was coming off and making making Selma and
launching that, launching a whole television show. And Dot was
doing his thing. But with Nip also, you know, you
got my victory lap dropped right around that time that
that came out. Crazy Rich Asians came right behind, right
behind our you know, our film. You know. It was
it was a time where it kind of felt like

(22:12):
anything was possible, you know. And yeah, I didn't I
didn't think much of the fact that we were doing
what we were doing. Man, I had that cash Man
with Chaldick and Mike and Lupete and Forrest and Daniel.
You know what I'm saying. It was, it was It
was a bunch of people who could, who could, who
could lead their own movie? That was that was that

(22:33):
we was kind of bursting at the scene. You know,
you know what I'm saying, starting Ink, you know, starting
k Brown in two scenes that movie. You know, you
know what I'm saying in lou with Luvig my composit
was doing with Childish Gambino. You know what I'm saying.
That was that was that was going crazy. It was
all and like I didn't have time to observe exactly

(22:53):
what was happening because I had so much work to do,
you know what. But but but it also was like
a feeling that I was bringing the homies to the
I was bringing because don't know when I'll imagine it
might not work and I might not get it again,
Like look at this, you know.

Speaker 2 (23:04):
Yeah that it was done.

Speaker 3 (23:05):
No.

Speaker 2 (23:05):
Yeah, With that being said, in the outstanding cast and
the people you work with, what was your I mean,
you're fairly still fairly new at this point. Yeah, Like
what was your kind of mindset in leadership and how
did you kind of navigate and move pieces to make
such a special project.

Speaker 3 (23:21):
I don't get that movie without doing Creed and Creed
had his own element of that, you know, like like
SEVESTERI Stallan, like who's a legend classic, Yeah, it was
a legend. And having to earn his respect and the
producers behind him, you know, Erwin Winkler and Robert Chardoff
Russian Piece. Uh, you know, these are people who are

(23:43):
making movies before all will before all was born. Right,
And I'm talking to Stallone about writing he wrote? He
wrote every word of every Rocky mogue?

Speaker 2 (23:53):
Did he really?

Speaker 3 (23:53):
I didn't know that every word.

Speaker 2 (23:55):
Really, no co writer.

Speaker 3 (23:59):
Say he wrote them. He wrote them. That's how. That's
how he wrote. So so so for him that for
him to give me his blessing, you know what I'm saying.
And he the type of dude he's not He's not
giving me his blessing in public. I'm lets me at
his house when he's saying, all right, man, we're gonna
you know, we're gonna do this. You know. That was
his own kind of kind of kind of wait to

(24:19):
bear and having you know, coming off of that, you know,
I just got married and uh in sixteen and then
we was off to go to go to go make
this movie, bro, and it was it was it was hard.
I would oftentimes had these moments where people would would say, okay, man.
It was like it was like with what I had

(24:39):
was Salon with Kevin Fight he saying, all right, man,
we're making this. I would meet with Alan Horne, Alan Bergman,
who was who's over there at the time, and it
was often I would sit down with agre Bro, who
you know, a big, big boss. Yeah, like he ran everything,
like like like, uh, Marl was just like a part
of it was it was it was like it was

(25:00):
like a it was like a small line in his
whole portfolio, you know, you know what I'm saying. Like
he also ran ESPN and also ran ABC, you know,
and the meeting with him and him saying, and I
think y'all got something here. So it would be the checkpoints,
you know, and the biggest woman.

Speaker 2 (25:17):
Just kind of validations along the way.

Speaker 3 (25:19):
And the biggest woman's child with Childwood was convinced we
was making the next Star Wars. He would say this,
you know what I mean, Like he was like, man,
this thing is this is He'll say on set like man,
it's huge, man, this is big. It's you know, because
we had like, you know, aircrafts, and he was surprised
that You're like, man, you got the aircraft. Look at
this message we're doing. We're doing man, We're doing Star Wars,

(25:39):
you know, like like so I'm like, man, Chattie tripping,
but I hear I'm like, man, ship are we?

Speaker 2 (25:43):
You know?

Speaker 3 (25:44):
You know what I mean? And that confidence being spoken
into me was helpful and just like the reaction from
from from people like you know, Broad didn't have been there,
you know, I didn't been a championship basketball game and
watch you played roll you feel me and then you
for you to come up there and sit around. I'm
proud of you. This big like I'm hearing it. I'm
all right, I could keep I could keep going. It

(26:04):
helps you, helps you kind of run, you know what
I'm saying, to until you get to the to the
end zone. You know, you know what I'm saying. But
that time was a special time. We didn't know how
good we had it bro to be honest, we didn't
know how good I could have. You know, hit Kendrick
up and he already boom and top. All right, we're
doing the whole album, you know, you know, I mean,
like crazy bright hit not for a song. I'm like,

(26:26):
maybe maybe he'll do a song. He just dropped down.
I know you're tired on tour. Man, we got a
whole album for you. Come pull up complition like it was.
It was just a different time.

Speaker 2 (26:36):
But that speaks to your character. People are willing to
go out of their way or just really lend. I mean,
I think it spoke to your character early when you said,
like when I told the homies it happened like they
celebrated like we want. I think it speaks to the
person and the man you are. What was that like
with Kendrick Obviously he's still front page news for other reasons. Yeah,
someone like him to be, someone like him to be

(26:58):
able to be like fuck the song, Yeah, take this whole.

Speaker 3 (27:03):
I mean it was it was. It was incredible. Man.
And you get used to as as a as a filmmaker.
You know, we we we music industry adjacent, you know.
You know what I'm saying, Like there's crossover there, but
it's it's completely different things. And you know, sometimes the
relationship can be symbiotic, you know what I'm saying. Every
once in a while you get the uh the Bodyguard

(27:25):
album or you know what I'm saying, like or you
get you know, where you can, yeah Friday or Above
the Rim or you know, every once in a while
you get that kind of synergy where where it doesn't
feel fake.

Speaker 2 (27:37):
Yeah, it both makes sense.

Speaker 3 (27:38):
Yeah, it makes sense, you know what I'm saying. But
for me Bro like like like I'm looking for like
a song generally, you know what I'm saying, Like something
for that, you know, something for the for the end credits,
that that we can you know what i mean, you know,
if the artists can have that moment. You know, I'm
always thinking about James Bond, you know. You know what
I'm saying, like where you know it's gonna be a
super impactful song. But the Pie in the Sky for
for me and Louvie always was ever since we first

(28:02):
started working as it always was like a full blown album,
you know what I'm saying, Like we've been trying to
do that since Freuveville. The idea of being able to
do that with td E Bro and for and for
Doc at that point to shape I want to do.
I want to you know, executive produce a whole album.
You know, That's what that was his appetite at the time,
you know what I'm saying. He was once again that
ambition you know, you know what I mean and him

(28:23):
and him seeing some of the footage, you're saying, yeah,
this is it. I can I can bring my full
self to this. You know. It was amazing, bro, But
it had some complicated conversations because it was a Disney movie.
Still you feel I.

Speaker 2 (28:34):
Had to go to walk that line.

Speaker 3 (28:35):
But I had to go up in the offices, bro
and explain you know what I'm saying, like while like
like you know, while certain languages being.

Speaker 2 (28:42):
But that's important. It's important because they don't have it.
I mean, that's not their specialty. No, it's not being
able to you know frids, those gaps. I mean to
this day, nine times platinum that I went not platin
nine times and one of his largest streaming songs ever
two billion streams with the all stars, all the stars,
excuse me, all the stars.

Speaker 3 (29:01):
I mean, I'll never forget the first time the demo
that like how big and Shindy none of us do
things in the vacuum.

Speaker 2 (29:08):
Bro.

Speaker 3 (29:08):
You know what I'm saying, like and and and you
know I believe in that like now when error like
like you know what I'm saying like like like you know,
I'm listening to music. Bro, my wife to Shaid, I
can tell you what I can tell you where I
was when you pick the artist. I can tell you
where I was when the album drop, when and how
I used it? You know, you know what I'm saying.

(29:28):
Four I am. I don't feel like getting up off
the bell with my wife. You feel me like I
get the shot at six I am? And what song
am I putting on? You know what I mean? They
get me to get me, to get me pumped up
and get me going. Man, you don't want championship working
on to it when you want to?

Speaker 2 (29:44):
Yeah, you know your hand absolutely Park now, Yeah, you
know what I mean. It's just absolutely. I mean there's
always songs and energy that puts you right in the position.

Speaker 3 (29:52):
Yeah, to be able to acknowledge the synergy and put
it together for the audience. You know what I'm saying here,
he got a movie coming up. Hear that soundtrack before.
It's just the prime for what were on before you
go to the theater. I mean, it's it's It was
an incredible gift.

Speaker 2 (30:07):
Bro, tell us, tell us a little bit more about
the genius of your composer.

Speaker 3 (30:11):
Love with he is that, but more than anything. He's
my friend, bro, you know what I'm saying. We met
right at that time when I was I have to
leave football behind come find a new filmmaking family. He
was one of the first people that I met at
in film school. He had just moved from Sweden. Funny enough,
he was living in It was a It was a
fraternity on frat row that they had been kicked off

(30:35):
campus for selas the bullshit and doing something crazy. You
know what I'm saying. If you know she history brother fresh,
they do all types of shit, you know what I'm saying.
It was, bro. It was one year a cat got
called on the roof doing some wild ship was at school.
But the fact I kicked off off cambus and they
and they opened up the fry house to students, specifically
graduate students for that can rent cheap houses. And one

(30:58):
of my film uh uh school homies was in the class.
I mean it was. It was was living there and
I went over to go to go to go visit
his place. And Louvig was another guy that was living
there with another composer student. That's how we met. And
I didn't he didn't have none of his music there.
And then I just met him as a guy, you know,
and and and we were talking and and I discovered

(31:21):
how how incredible he was, you know, letter on and
he started scoring my projects, my projects. But the thing
about him, Bro, he went pro first, like before anybody
like we looked up. He had graduated and he had
a job, bro where he was assistant a composer on
a television show. He got his he got his green card, Bro,
and he was cracking like he was the first one

(31:41):
to buy a house. He was, he was, he was
on it because he was that good, you know. And
then he got he was assisting his composer who was
working for the Russo brothers Bron. This is before they
did the Marvel thing. They was doing. It was doing
television shows. And then they got a show about a
community college called Community. And they went to Louvig's boss

(32:02):
and he was too busy because he was he was
working with Ben Steel doing Tropic Thunder and all that.
And he said, hey, man, hire my assistant. You know,
he's incredible to hire him, saying Louvic got his got
his first show, which is Community, right, So look who's
in Community, Donald Glover. He's one of he's one of
the one of the actors in the show. Donald Glover

(32:24):
meets Louvig tells Louvig, he, bro, I'm a I'm a
I'm a musician too, you know what I'm saying, Like,
you know, you make music. They formed Charlage gambin On.
Really yeah, they formed Chlarge gambin On. You know what
I'm saying. Movie, making it, making it, making beach, Donald
rapping on him. Donald links up with another cat named
fam My Nigeria Homye from South Central you know, you know,

(32:44):
Fan becomes Donalds, becomes Donald's manager. You know, the whole
thing blows up, you know, essentially, Like like while right
around the time that I'm getting ready to make Proveville,
He's composing television shows, does does it? Does hiss? You know,
as far as major feature film with me on his
on his own with Fruville and in Charlege game, you know,
blows up, you know what I'm saying. So he becomes

(33:06):
his producer too. Like all at the same time, there's
not many people like that, dude, bro when it comes
to when it comes to music.

Speaker 2 (33:12):
From organic regular ship, that's.

Speaker 3 (33:13):
Like yeah, yeah, he asked, that's who he is. As
a person man, like a real uh incredible individual.

Speaker 2 (33:19):
Bro. What did you learn most and what did you
enjoy most about Chadwick?

Speaker 3 (33:22):
Yeah? Man, I mean look, I learned most most from Childwick,
bro patience. I talked about this a lot, man, But
he was he he was a person who moved at
his own pace. You know. He was from the South, Uh,
he was. He was. He was quite older than me
and Mike, you know, so when we worked with him,
he had he had not an advanced maturity to him.

(33:44):
He was also dealing with with with life or death
circumstances that we did not know, you know what I'm saying,
So it was heightened. But he changed my life, bro,
like like like like you know, he was the most
He was a meditator and then a martial artist, you know,
and and he was he was extremely in control of
his ability to focus. You know what I'm saying. When

(34:05):
you were with him, he wouldn't the type of dude
to be checking his phone and and to be distracted.
You know. He was the single most focused person I
ever met, you know what I'm saying. Like like it
was looking back on it, it was incredible and it's something
I aspired to Bro, to be honest, like to be
able to be that present with people. You know, you
know what I mean. He would take deep breaths if

(34:26):
you gave him some information, you could I could see him.
I could see him locking in like like you know
what I know, you know what I mean? And again
like a serious, serious martial artist, like he was a
hooper coming up the athletic mindset. Bro. You know you
know what I mean? Like you know you know that
you know that game? Bro? Like like it's a clip, Bro,
The closest thing I seen in Chad, Bro, Like this,
this is gonna crack you up. The closest thing I've

(34:48):
seen in Chad is a clip of Cam Newton, Bro,
Like you know, he got his, he got his, he
got his whole thing on online, his networking, and and
it's a clip going around and him breaking down a
play call, and and and and you see him listening
in on another play call, Bro. And you see for
a split second like he's listening to the play call,

(35:08):
and he and you seem change, like he becomes unblinking
you know you know what I'm saying. While he's listening
to all the plays and he snaps out of Okay,
So what this is is that like that was chat
at all times, Bro, like he at all times he
was he had that he had that focus of like
a quarterback getting a play call in like the fourth quarter.
You know, you know what I'm saying. It didn't matter
who it was. Bro. I got seen him with children, Bro,

(35:28):
when he was doing charity we're doing charity events. The
kid will come up to him like, mister bas can't
get your autograph, you know what I'm saying, And you'll
see that same level of focus he had that ship
for everybody, you know what I'm saying. To see a
guy who was close to our age, who was able,
who was able to manipulate that you know. You know
what I mean was that was the biggest thing I
took from.

Speaker 2 (35:47):
Him, Broe. Deep rest in peace man for sure. Centers different,
Yeah different. I didn't know what to expect, you know
what I mean. When we got we got a chance
to see it a couple of weeks ago, we couldn't
stop talking the whole way home. I mean, we're where
did that the idea of centers come from? Obviously out
April eighteenth. Yeah, make sure you check it out. Robert Johnson.

(36:08):
We did a little studying on him. We dug in
on that there's some urban legend in him. Yeah, but
talk to me about the thought processing and you're putting
that project together.

Speaker 3 (36:16):
It came from from from a lot of different angles, man,
but the most focused angle level was my relationship with
my uncle James, uncle James Edmonston. So like, so like, bro,
where I came up. You know I'm from. I'm from
essentially two places in the Bay, which is like it's
like sacrilegious to say where we're from, but it's my reality,

(36:38):
you know what I'm saying. Like, my whole family's from Oakland,
and I was born and raised there up up until
I was about once my wife forget me, and my
wife is here, but I think I was either ten
or eleven years old. But in the nineties Oakland was
getting expensive and they couldn't afford to buy a house
that was from So right around time I was ten
or eleven, they bought a house in a city car Richmond,

(37:01):
which which is you know, give or take ten ten
fifteen minutes from North Aukland. I was where I was
living at before, and they and they bought the house
and they we basically had been there since. You know,
some my little brothers barely remember Oakland, you know what
I'm saying, But for me, it was home, and it
actually kind of saved me, bro when the funks kicked up,
when the beefs kicked up, Like my Ouaklean hummies knew

(37:24):
knew me as having moved to Richmond, and then my
Richmond homies to this day they considered me from Oakland,
you know what I mean, you know what I'm saying.
So it kind of saved me from a lot of
you know, from a lot of from a lot of
how bad it got, but a lot of my formative years,
like my like I would say, my humility, you know
what I'm saying, I learned from Richmond. You know what
I'm saying. Oaklands many things that ain't a humble place,
you know, you know what I'm saying, Like, uh, but

(37:46):
Richmond is you know, you know what I mean. It's
a little it's a little like a slightly slower lifestyle,
but it's also like it's also like arguably more dangerous,
you know what i mean. Like and my uncle after
we moved to Richmond, my uncle bought a house like
like maybe a ten minute walk in Richmond from from

(38:07):
where he was from. So that was my only other family.
I was in Richmond, So I used to be out there.
My parents was cool with me walking to his house.
And that was when I got old enough to have
a little bit of independence for me. Like I would
walk and walk down there to his house to sit
up under him, you know, just to get off from
under the under the house and in his thing when
he was off work, you know. And he was a
World War two ved and he worked in the steel

(38:28):
meal and all type of you know, but you know
he had he had a more chill job in that era.
And when he got off work, he liked to uh
either watch or listen to on the radio the San
Franscot Giants. He would spend blues records on vinyl, and
he would drink all Taylor whiskey, you know what I'm saying,
And if the wishy was cold enough and the song
was good enough, I might get a story about Mississippi,

(38:49):
you know what I mean. And each one of them
stories was crazy, Like like I thought that my uncle
was g you know what I mean, from the from
these stories and like like he had to he had
to he came to California on the run, you know,
you know what I'm saying, because he had got into
it with his with his white boss or something, you know,
you know what I'm saying, and had to had to
flee in the middle of the night. And that was

(39:11):
kind of like my introduction to blues music. I didn't
think of it as my own. I thought I was
just my belonging to something that belonged to my uncle,
you know what I'm saying. And you know, fast forward
to me getting a football scholarship and then deciding to
go to film school. You know, these decisions, they took
me away from my family, you know what I'm saying.
You know how it is.

Speaker 2 (39:29):
But you're missing a lot of things.

Speaker 3 (39:30):
You know, you're on the road. You miss your birthday,
you miss a wedding, you know, you know, you missing funerals, right,
you know what I'm saying. I was in La working
on Creed especially all the twenty fifteen is with my
uncle's health took a time for the worst when he
got diagnosed with turning of cancer and and I'm in
Philly away from him, and I'm in La finished up
the movie. When I get to the call that he died,

(39:51):
you know what I'm saying. And man, bro, it brought
me down because I felt guilty, you know what I'm saying,
Like like it's like, man, what is this what is
this job?

Speaker 2 (39:59):
Bro?

Speaker 3 (39:59):
That's that I'm you know, I'm fucking around with an
editing software in a computer.

Speaker 2 (40:05):
Bro.

Speaker 3 (40:05):
My uncle is don I'm not even able to be
there with him, you know what I'm saying, And that
guilt associated with that, Bro, I missed so much from
that house, bro, Like like basically everybody from that house
passed away. Man. Like the only Ogre's left is my
is my auntie, Auntie Wendy, you know. And I missed.
I missed all all of the last moments with the

(40:26):
people because I was because I was pursuing my dream,
you know what I'm saying, Right, And I would find
myself playing all blues records when I thought about my mom,
and I was listening to him in a different ear
like now that he was gone. Like I'm studying the
music and getting into it heavy and and sometimes I'm
listening to it in the dark, and I feel like
he right there, he right there listening with me, telling

(40:47):
me about the records and you know you got a game, bro.
We talked about Nick twenty twenty one. I'm listening to
a lot of Dolf, you know, he gets murdered, and
I'm in the South working on at the two. I'm
seeing cotton farms for the first time in my life
because I'm in Byron, Georgia. You know what I'm saying, uh,

(41:07):
And I'm thinking about this thing that happens to us
as gangster rap fans, that we sadly become a cousom
to of an artist being monumental and influencing our lives
and rapping about navigating the same things he navigating, and
they succumb to it right like like you said, you
got Park right here on your hand up there. Before
Park got married, it was a dude named Seagram from

(41:30):
from the six nine Ville in Oakland. Who's Who's who
was like the first gangster rapper. You know, Hammry was gangster,
but he wasn't making gangster rap, right, you know what
I'm saying. But Segrim was making that you feel me
like you put you put Seagram on And he got
signed with Jay Prince to rap a lot and he
got married, you know, basically right when he was getting
on and then you and then he got part you know,

(41:51):
and then you got mac dre, you got Johnny Cash,
you know, you got the Jacker, you got countless young dudes.
You know you know what I mean. Rest and peace,
Kenny Cherry, can he clutch the hood? Reci peace? Tightway
from the ridge? You know what I'm saying. This is
constant like this, this flood of bodies. You know what

(42:12):
I'm saying, that's lost and with Nip and doff. It
hurts so much because it was my age and I
thought that they made it out, you know what I'm saying,
Like I thought that beat, you know, twenty five, twenty seven,
you know, they rapping luxury rap now about their businesses
and their kids and then boom boom. You know what
I'm saying, Back to back. It put me in a
mode of of of studying the musician, you know what

(42:33):
I'm saying, And and and the type of music that
was coming out that my uncle listened to. You know,
I interrogated it, you know what I'm saying. And that
was really where you know, where the idea came from
for the movie. It was all of those things and
coming off of spending so much time making you know,
two comic book movies in a boxing movie, and you know,

(42:55):
I wanted to make something original. You know. I was
really from my soul, you know, and about what I'm
interested in before it was too late.

Speaker 2 (43:04):
That's interesting because hearing you break it down, you can
feel it.

Speaker 3 (43:07):
Yeah, the movie one hundred definitely in Louvig Bro his father,
you know, he from Sweden. Bro His father went to
name him Albert for Albert King. His father was that
heavy of adulta blues fan, you know what. You know
what I'm saying, And when I researched the music and
I was like, I really got into like, well, my
uncle loved it so much, you know what I'm saying.
I realized that this was this was maybe our country's

(43:30):
greatest contribution to the arts. You know what I'm saying.
Delta blues music. This music became it became rock and roll,
it became R and B.

Speaker 2 (43:37):
It became him a different genre.

Speaker 3 (43:38):
It became you know everything that's that's that's cool now
and has been cool for the last you know, sixty years.
You know, it started right here with these with these people.
You know, you know what I mean that concept I
said this is a massive concept. I gotta shoot this
on the big cameras. I gotta bring all my homies
that that that that really are really good at this
filmmaking thing. I got to bring him to the South
so we could we could spend six month making this,

(44:01):
you know what I'm saying. And that's what we did.

Speaker 2 (44:04):
Where did the vampire twists come from?

Speaker 3 (44:06):
I love horror movies. People didn't know that about me,
you know what I'm saying. I was actually it was
actually like it was actually your point of shy is
man when I realized, like I've been making movies over
ten years and people still don't really know.

Speaker 2 (44:17):
Me, you know what I'm saying. But that's your fault
not to cut you off. You don't like you don't
like this. This is not your thing. I mean before
it wasn't like you don't like that. You like you
like being behind the.

Speaker 3 (44:25):
Scene like year, like God, God bless you, bro. I
can feel right right right right.

Speaker 2 (44:31):
That's one thing I always expect, Like you never because
this is the first like I've been asking you ship
since I started this ship to sit down, you know
what I mean. And that's just and you're like, it's
not not right, it's not really It's never really been
your thing. And I like that you are giving the
world an opportunity to see this, you know what I mean,
because I got a chance to, you know, get a
little snapshot of it. And like your mind is like

(44:51):
the way you think and the way you carry yourself
is dope. And I'm glad you're opening up to people.

Speaker 1 (44:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (44:55):
Yeah, I mean this project, this project is definitely worthy
of you, Bro, from my standpoint, like you know, and
it needs the context, you know what I'm saying. Like
without without the context, I think it still works, you know,
you know what I mean. But but I think the
context can deepen it, you know what I mean. I'm thankful, Bro.

(45:15):
It's you know, look, Bro, I'm a in Frouville. You know,
I was twenty twenty five, twenty six something like that,
and Bro was being thrown right through me on Pierce Morgan, Bron.
You know what I'm saying, Like I'm twenty you know
what I mean. I had my media training, Bro, I'm fresh.
I'm fresh at the film school.

Speaker 2 (45:35):
But straight from us, straight from the Bay.

Speaker 3 (45:37):
Yeah, I'm on seeing it. He asked me about gun violence.
You know what I'm saying in America, you feel me,
and there was no all the smoke yeah me for
me to come shit down. And you know what I'm
saying with somebody who really uh understands me. You know
what I'm saying, I understand understands my situation when I'm
navigating right, you know, somebody who understands part more than

(46:00):
just just the songs he made. You know I'm talking
about like understand when I say Oakland or Richmond, brom
not you know that. You know I'm not talking about Virginia.
You know what I'm saying, like, no, disrespected to Richmond, Virginia.
You know what I'm saying, like like salute to them,
but it means something. I I have media outleased like this.
You know who get it? You know? Following that, yeah,

(46:22):
you know you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (46:23):
Definitely proud ourselves on that talked to us about was
it stacking.

Speaker 3 (46:27):
Smoke your smoking stack? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (46:29):
You was able to to clone Michael b What was
that ship? Was that first? Because I was in that
I'm not gonna lie I was in that bitch high I'm.

Speaker 4 (46:37):
Like, yeah you check, yeah my own So what did
I loved the idea because again, I'm a dad of
twins similarities but also huge differences.

Speaker 2 (46:54):
So talk to me about identical identical twins.

Speaker 3 (46:57):
Okay, So it's beautiful, bro. Yeah, Auntie Maryland and Auntie Curlying,
that's my aunties, my mom's older sisters. And they was
notorious and our neighborhood, you know, identical twins, identical twins
with the ship and they whipped ash like so so
so it was it was you know, it was, it
was you know, I came up under them. So I

(47:19):
was born into a world that had identical twins. And
you know what I'm saying. My mom's sisters, one of
them was my godmother, you know what I mean. And
to this day, that house she came to visit. So
the yellow houses where my Auntie Maryland live right next
door to the Blue house. When my Auntie Curly leaves,
they live side by side, Bro, and they're seven years old,
best friends and worst enemies. Yeah, at the same time.
Nobody will talk more ship about the other one than

(47:42):
the No one else can say nothing, Bro. My wife, Bro,
my wife's first one of her first meetings with them,
like we was in high school and they drove her
to uh, they picked her up from my high school
graduation because we got back together right before we finished
up high school, right and man, she got off the
off the car b her ay as big as fifty
cent pieces. Like, Bro, these two women hate each other,

(48:04):
you know what I'm saying, because because they argue the
whole the whole way, but they can't be with all
each other, you know, you know what I'm saying. So
I was born into knowing that dynamic. And I've always been,
always been sensitative to to to twins. Man, I always
loved them. But the crazy part about me is I
also have a phobia of doppelgangers, you know what I'm saying, Like,
like you actually call it a little bit of it.

(48:25):
Because I walked in here today and one of your
one of your one of your crew.

Speaker 2 (48:29):
Members was was in that room to different space first.

Speaker 3 (48:31):
And and I introduced myself to her. And I came
in this room and she introduced herself to me again.
So I was like, I was like, man, stop everything, Bro,
did I did I? Did I just meet you just
now or did I not? You know what I'm saying.
And she was like, oh yeah, I was me and
I was in the room I'm like, all right, cool,
you know because my because my worst nightmare is is experience.
And you know what I'm saying, that doppel ganger so
so so just I got that on like like comomy

(48:52):
with them myself and me so so me putting twins
into the movie was a part of that. You know,
you know, every neighborhood I come up in, they got
a set of twins. Everybody knows, you know. And I
wanted to play on a lot of like the mythology
you know, you know, what it means to be African American.
It's also when I was doing my research on the

(49:13):
subject matter West Africans, like you know, our our lineage
as African Americans has an interesting relationship with the concept
of twins. It's a europe but deity to Europe with
deities that are that are that are identical twins, and
you know, we over indexing the birth of fraternal twins,
you know. So it's it's it's it's a real uh

(49:34):
uh thing, you know what I mean. And I wanted
to I want to put in there.

Speaker 2 (49:37):
That was what do you hope people take from this project? Then?

Speaker 3 (49:40):
Number one, bro, all people just have a good time
at the movies like I hope people go. I hope
people go with their friends and their families, man, take dates,
you know, you know what I mean, Like like I
want for me, I want to bring back that that
cinematic experience, man like, like for everybody, that feeling of
you know, talking to the screen and yelling and don't
do it, Yeah, go outside exactly exactly, We're not back,

(50:04):
you know, you know what I mean. And a lot
of movies that that that do that. Man. I think
I think Jordan's there's a phenomenal job of that, you know,
each time you put something together. But it was for me,
it was it was it was about making a movie
that can be experienced with the big audience. And at
the heart of it, you know, like I said, Bro,
it's about these people you know who are us? Man?
They us just just just in the thirties, you know,

(50:26):
and and and then them you know, through the act
of them affirming that humanity at a time and when
when society wasn't trying to let them do that, they
created this incredible art form and it's culture around you,
you know what I'm saying. Anytime you go into a
night club today, still that that's the core. You know
that started here.

Speaker 2 (50:41):
That's the core.

Speaker 3 (50:42):
You know I started there.

Speaker 2 (50:43):
You know what I'm saying real quick, I want to
backput it real quick because you too. So that was
your auntie's house you took me to. Yeah, so there's
a big tie to the Black Panthers. Free lunch at
the school was right across the street.

Speaker 3 (50:56):
Yeah, Shanta Fe Elementary. You first stop sign the first
stop signing to.

Speaker 2 (51:01):
Briefly briefly running through like what what you showed me that? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (51:04):
So where I'm from and where my family is from.
Man and my uh my granddaddy who was born in
Mississippi and moved to Auckland. You know where he built
the second story of my family's house. It is in
it's in the Herd North Talk and I'm gonna give
you the exact crosstreets my family. Yeah there, but but
it's in the fifties and around Market and on fifty

(51:25):
fifth in Market, there was an intersection, uh, in the
in the in the late sixties where a lot of
a lot of young black children were being hit by
cars because the traffic situation wasn't set up right and
they were going to the city to try to get
them to fix it because there was so many accidents
in the city. Didn't care, you know, because it was black,
it was black kids. I was that was across the

(51:46):
street getting hit. And one of the first major moves
that the the Finch Minister and UH uh Hu p
Newton and UH and Chairman Bobby Shield did as found
the members of the Black Party was they they made
their own stop sign and they put it up right

(52:07):
there on fifty fifth and Market. To stop sign still stands.
There's traffic right there as well now. But that my
family is from that block. My uncle h Buzz, you know,
was one of the original Panthers and folks a lot
of folks don't know that that that western North Oakland
was kind of like where they you know, the original
the original stomping grounds in the school that my whole

(52:28):
family went to. Uh that's essentially you know, across the
street from that from that called Santa Fe Middle School,
and I was where you know, you know, we're one
of the first free lunch programs was carried out for
children in the community. You know, that's I grew up in.

Speaker 2 (52:43):
No, I appreciate you showing me that was there was
some history Uh.

Speaker 3 (52:47):
It's heavy over there.

Speaker 2 (52:48):
I enjoy.

Speaker 3 (52:48):
Yeah you can still you can still Finery, Yeah you
still you can still Philly.

Speaker 2 (52:52):
Man, it's definitely a live Yeah. The depth you go
for each film and and how you embrace yourself, whether
it's a community or whatever the situation. The topic is
football is natural to you. Will we ever see a
football film?

Speaker 3 (53:04):
Man, God willing bro Absolutely, we need something, absolutely bro
Like like you know, the time ain't got to be right,
but yeah, not like the first script I ever put
the paper was that.

Speaker 2 (53:14):
Yeah, and let me be like an assistant coach or something.

Speaker 3 (53:17):
Man, if you're with it, I'm with it. Man. I
love the link like like it's it's you know, like
football is so so cinematic, but it's also such a
regional sport, you know what I'm saying, Like like I
used to always be jealous of Who because like, you know,
you got the Olympics, you know, you know what I'm saying,
like worldwide spork it the spork and travel, man, football
takes so much equipment and coordination and you know, you

(53:40):
know it's it's it's it's just starting to travel a
little bit. But but you know, I don't know if
it'll ever be like like soccer or who you know,
it's more like hockey that way, you know. So, but
you have a lot it. I love to make a
a football movie. Man tart my hand at.

Speaker 2 (53:54):
It before we get you added, what do you judge?
What do you base success on it? As far as
your project.

Speaker 3 (54:00):
Film is an art form and it's a business. You know,
it's both things at once. Uh. And unfortunately, you know,
you know, we live in a in a in a
capitalist system, you know what I'm saying, globally, you know,
and the business drives you for film, having success in

(54:22):
that category will will be the most direct dictator of
whether or not you get to do another one, you know.
So so obviously you know. And then and those metrics
are very clearly defined, you know what I'm saying. Uh,
you know so, so there's that aspect of you. Uh.
It's also an art form, you know, and I believe
it's a language, you know, and I like, like many languages,

(54:46):
you can be conversational any you know what I'm saying.
Like you meet people who say, yah, I'm I'm conversational
in Spanish, you know, you know what I'm saying, They
might not be able to speak with themselves. But that
can maybe uh speak a little bit and that can
that can then you meet other people can say I
can understand it, I can't speak it.

Speaker 2 (55:02):
Right.

Speaker 3 (55:03):
That that's the global population. The global population can understand
cinematic language, you know what I'm saying. They might not
be able to speak it, but they can. They can
watch a video or watch a movie and take it there,
take it in and feel the emotions when it's done.
Will uh I'm I can say myself fluent in it

(55:23):
like I can. I can speak it, I understand it,
I can write it, you know what I mean? And
the judge for me is, can I make a movie
that entertains people, but they also feel the emotions that
I'm feeling while I made it? You know what I'm saying.
If I was sad when I was when I was
writing writing something about characters, if they watch this in
their eyes choke up, you know, their eyes tear up.

(55:45):
I mean, they say, they get a lump in, they
throat all right, man, That's that's that's success. If if
I tell a story and after the film roll you know,
you know, you know, you know, rolls, and they walk out,
are they still thinking about it. You know what I'm saying, Like,
do they find themselves wanting to maybe find a song
that they heard or find or deeper into subject matter

(56:06):
and that's that's a form of success. But then the
pinnacle brot Like, in my opinion, the pinnacle is if
when I'm when I'm gone from here, it's still with it,
They're still like that that shit, I'll never know that,
you know, you know what I'm saying, But you on pace? Yeah, Pa, right,
quick hitters.

Speaker 2 (56:23):
First thing to come to your mind. Let us know
outside of you and Mike b who are some other
famous duos that you respect? And the actor director.

Speaker 3 (56:33):
Was about to trip to the sports p Yeah, yeah,
my bad, you said actor actor and director Paul Thomas
Anderson and Dane Day, Lewis Fike and and then Jil
Tony Scott and Denzil Derek She and France and Ryan Goslin.
I'm gonna I'm gonna fucking butcher her name Greta Gerwig

(56:56):
and Sorr she wrote how you say her Irish net Huh,
Sorsha Roll Rowland, Chris Nolan and Killian Murphy, Marty and
Leo Marty and Bob the Nero Edgar Edgar writing and
Simon Pegg needed the Costant test to Thom Sheen.

Speaker 2 (57:20):
I don't know if you're superstitious, but if you want
to put the Who's one actor you'd like to work with? Still?

Speaker 3 (57:27):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (57:28):
One album you could listen.

Speaker 3 (57:29):
To our repeat Me against the World.

Speaker 2 (57:32):
Mm hmmm. Your fondest sports memory maybe your top two
or three favorite sports sports memories.

Speaker 3 (57:38):
One is j v who hitting the game winner against
San le Andro kicked our eyes like five games in
a row. Yeah, yeah, yeah, shout out to my hommy,
Sam Cheetah. Second favorite memory is catching my first touchdown
in college on u C. Davis on sophomore year. I

(58:00):
was I was at Davis. Called it in the kind
of route its post corner, Yeah, the cost corner. It
was good coverage too. At the top of Homie threaded
my homie, my homie O. This Amy was on the
other side. He ran on the other side. This came O.
This came and met me, celebrated with me. We got
a picture of that. I think he got that somewhere.
But that was a good I was a good catch,

(58:21):
good throw while Ryan letting him. I can't remember the
corner back. He was buff as fucked though it was.
It was hard to block the whole game. I can't
believe I beat him. My last greatest memory was uh,
I called it well, I tipped. I tipped a hail
Mary against Northern Colorado my senior year, and my homie
Tony Washington caught it, uh on the on the back

(58:43):
line of that he was down five take it back
to score for It was a hell Mary zero I
think probably like forty eight yards out. And I was,
I was the I was the hell of married guy.
And you know I'm five nine, bro, so like, and
it was a dB that was I was. That was
maybe Jason side is like sixty three trimming me the
whole game, bro. And uh. And we had practiced that

(59:08):
the hell Mary the day before we got on the plane. Bro.
And I'll never forget this because I think about this
all the time. We we we ran to play and
and and and how that hell mary worked. It's three
receivers run to the same spot and the quarterback thought
it was basically we had a jump ball in that
spot and and that damn practice, Bro. We we all

(59:29):
got there at the same time because it was on air,
and it dropped it in front of the three. It's
nobody caught it because I thought my homie Tony was
finna get it. He thought I was gonna get it,
you know what I'm saying. And the other thought that
thought that one of us was gonna get it. And
it dropped and we was like damn. And and our
college bro ripped this bro like he ran in Marshall
Spurback was his name. He ran in, Bro, and he
was like, hey, it's just like it same, the same

(59:52):
for joking around. He's like, look, man, Tony, you go here,
and he put Tony up front. Ill homie, I can't
rule it. Might have been, might be mohammie Philip Perry
from door shey high Uh Like, Peroy, you go here,
And he said, coogar, you catch it. And he says, man,
and if you can't, if you can't get two hands
on it. And Tippy Bro twenty four hours later, Bro,

(01:00:13):
he game on the line, Game on the line, Bro,
And you know it's loud in northern Colorado was cold,
and they say, man, we running the hell of married Bro.
And I'm like, all right, And he sat in a quarterback,
young dude, Bro, it's freshman, he said, Bro. I think
I can. I think I can get it there in
the end one man and uh. And then Tony look
at me. He said, Bro, if you can't catch that motherfucker, tippy, Bro,

(01:00:34):
tippy you know what I'm saying. Alrighty bet, and they
thow that ship up, brought that big giant ass corner
was shitting right there, Bro, and I jumped and he
trying to jump smooth too. I got up, Bro, and
I realized, Bro, I couldn't get two hands on it,
because you know you can. You know you can always
jump hard. And I'm a one foot jumper, Bro, so
you know you always go higher if you jump, if
you jumping here and here man, Bro, I tipped that ship, Bro,

(01:00:56):
and I thought I was finna get it like I
tipped it, and I'm like, oh, I got to play
on this, and the big fuck fell on me, Bro,
you know what I'm saying. So so I'm going down, Bro,
and I'm watching the ball drop, BRO and my nigga
Tony slid in bro Brand basket right and he didn't
know he was in, but looked at him. Bro, and

(01:01:18):
I looked up at the ref and the reference looking
at me dead in the eye. He nodded, like, yeah,
Bro'm just what you're thinking. Bro, lift their hands up
bright and I don't remember else. Pandemonium.

Speaker 2 (01:01:27):
Let's gonna be a part of the movie. Part of
guarantee that.

Speaker 3 (01:01:30):
Your part of the pandemonium. Bro. Yeah, last question, yeah,
m J Kobe Bron.

Speaker 2 (01:01:36):
What's your order me? Yeah, m J Kobe Bron?

Speaker 3 (01:01:39):
Am I taking bias of it?

Speaker 2 (01:01:40):
Take out and put up whatever you want to?

Speaker 3 (01:01:42):
I mean, look, bro, what am I ranking? Like? What
in your opinion? Brian? Okay, I'll tell you why. Because
he did it with social media and it's just the devil. Bro,
It's just the devil, like cameras everywhere and and and
him being on the cover of Sports Illustrated when he

(01:02:03):
was a teenager. Bro. Like Jordan had to deal with that.
Kobe had to deal with that too. But but but
it wasn't as advanced as it is now for him
to have navigated it. And bruh, none of them had
to play Steph Bro like like like like like they're like,
you know, the closest, the closest, The closest inj had

(01:02:23):
to Steph was was was Reggie. You know what I'm saying.
The closest Cob had to deal with Steph was was
Ray You know what I'm saying, Like like the fact
that Bron like gott got got you know, got full
rings in a in the Super Team era. You know
what I'm saying, when Cash is clicking up, you know,
you know what I mean. And even though he participated

(01:02:45):
in that, you know what I'm saying, but still and
in that Steph in that in that Steph like three
point shot era, you know what I mean, change the game,
like the fact that he the fact that he was
able to and also you know, be a be a
be the be, the story, that heat that he is
with all this, with all of the mind fuck that
is the Internet. You know what I'm saying. Mike, we
just saw Mike when he was playing. You know what

(01:03:06):
I'm saying. I was was it like he can know
he could go be, he could go be, he could
go be who he was off off off camera, and
you know what I'm saying, So I got I got.
You know, it pains me to shay that bro because
I love I love Mike and I saw that I
saw the second three people Mike. I didn't see the
first three p Mike. I was before my time that

(01:03:26):
that's just crazy dominating, you know what I'm saying. But
but I caught him like post retirement basically. But in
terms of like who is a better player, you know what?
You know what I'm saying, Like, that's that's impossible to
different also just like different body types, you know, you
know what I mean, Like like like like Brian is
a is an unfair type of specially you guarded, you

(01:03:47):
guarded to it to a three, So like you could
you could tell me who was more who's more difficult
to guard.

Speaker 2 (01:03:53):
Difficult for me to guard? Was? I mean, I don't
get me wrong, Brian is great, but difficult guard code
because there's more reaction to your mistakes. Yeah, bron is fast, strong,
and if you're there, it don't matter. He can go
through you or over you.

Speaker 1 (01:04:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:04:04):
But Kobe was more like attacking the foot, attacking a hand, attacking.

Speaker 3 (01:04:07):
An angle tactician and then once if you.

Speaker 2 (01:04:09):
Caught up to him, here was shot blew.

Speaker 3 (01:04:11):
My mind meeting him was how big he was? How
big he was six six? Yeah, big fucking dude, like
like like like you know, to be as quick an
as so Koby was more more tactical. Yeah, absolutely, Yeah,
that's that's that's that's what's that feel like? Bro have
it's the best?

Speaker 2 (01:04:27):
Like I said, I mean my job every night was
to guard the best.

Speaker 3 (01:04:29):
Like did you ever guard Ai?

Speaker 1 (01:04:31):
No?

Speaker 2 (01:04:31):
I didn't have to guard. I don't want them problems.

Speaker 3 (01:04:35):
Problem brow I think about I think about that, I
think about cold, I think I think about getting the rings.
Yeah in the AI.

Speaker 2 (01:04:42):
Era, Yeah yeah, that was a problem. Have you met him?
He's little.

Speaker 3 (01:04:48):
Just over over zoomed. Okay, so person, I seen even person.
I was in the nose bleed at the All Star
Game in two thousand and two, two thousand and three
when it was no nice two thousand two in Oakland
with the dunk Vins bench stuck in the arm in there.
That's my scene. And because because because what happened with Ai.
It was was when Vince was going through the he

(01:05:10):
he had his last attempts. People don't people don't talk
about this, but his last attempt was a free throw dunk,
and Ai was the first one to walk to the
He walked, he went on the baseline and walked to
the free throw line and laid down on his stomach
to see to see if he could if he could
if he could witness where his foot was when he jump,
and when he did that, everybody did it, Like every

(01:05:31):
everybody went, everybody went laid down next to him. So
that was my only time seeing Ai in person. You
feel me. He that, But that game one he had against.

Speaker 2 (01:05:40):
Crazy, that was the only game the Lakers lost the
whole playoffs.

Speaker 3 (01:05:43):
That's my top sports performance I've ever seen. Bro along
in there like forty two mom two eyes Bro, when
he stepped over, when he stepped over to Bro. Oh yeah, I.

Speaker 2 (01:05:55):
Want to thank you. Bro. It's been dope watching your
journey and your humility and humbleness and willingness to help
and still find a time for people and just being
cold man making great projects. Right, it's dope to see
you kind of leading away, and we wish you continued
success and love and blessings. Bro. Appreciate you, man, no doubt.

Speaker 3 (01:06:16):
Man speaks to the planet.

Speaker 5 (01:06:39):
I go by the name of Charlamagne to God, and
guess what. I can't wait to see y'all at the
third annual Black Effect Podcast Festival.

Speaker 3 (01:06:46):
That's right with coming back to Atlanta.

Speaker 5 (01:06:48):
Georgia, Saturday, April twenty sixth at Poeman Yards and it's
hosted by none other than Decisions, Decisions Man, d B
and Wheezy.

Speaker 3 (01:06:55):
Okay, we got the.

Speaker 5 (01:06:56):
R and B Money Podcast with taking Jay Valentine. You
got the Woman Evolved Podcast with Sarah Jake Roberts. We
got Good Mom's Bad Choices. Carrie Champion will be there
with her next sports podcast and the Trap Nerds podcast,
with more to be announced. And of course it's bigger
than podcasts. We're bringing the Black Effect marketplace with black
owned businesses, plus the food truck caught to keep you
fed while you visit us. All right, listen, you don't

(01:07:18):
want to miss this. Tap in and grab your tickets
now at Black Effect dot Com Flash Podcast Festival