Steve Nash | Ep 34 | ALL THE SMOKE Full Episode | #StayHome with SHOWTIME Basketball - All The Smoke

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
From my high school team. We have five guys make
the NBA. We head the county Rocket gets some mecca
of basketball. Here are those who come before us, upon
whose shoulders we stand. It's nothing that you can do
to stop the competitive and there's just in the water.

(00:30):
Welcome back to a special quarantine edition. We got a
real special guys. What's up with your Brodie with the
virtual handshake. I'm gonna tell you something that I never
told no about it. I want to smoke. Welcome back
to a special quarantine edition of all the Smoke. I'm
coming to you from l A my brother Jackson, Atlanta.
What's up, bro, my brother. Good to see you. Man.

(00:52):
How you holding up? I know them boys taying things
up over there? Man, if they started looking a little
better though, I'm starting to see some bright days out
here in the lane of They thinking about opening up
things starting Friday. I'm I'm gonna laid back a little bit,
but it's good to see that things are things are
making progress. See that scares me. I kind of think
that's a catch twenty two. Obviously, I want the world
to open back up, but I don't know if you're

(01:12):
ready for it. And you know, with this administration, it's
all about business and money, not really preserving lives. So
I'm a little skeptical on the opening up. As much
as I want to see the world open back up,
I don't really know if we're ready. Yeah, but yeah,
know the boys are in here. I was just telling
Steve before we got going, the boys aren't here doing
an online homework supposedly in the next room, but I
keep hearing balls bouncing, then all here fucking one kid

(01:32):
throwing on the floor yelling. I'm just like, there's no
part of homework that has that kind of ship going on.
Basketball at it, right, I guess something, But why do
you say that? Because out here, our governor it's saying,
let everybody come out, let's get the city backrolling. But
out mayor is telling people to stay home. So what
we're supposed to think? You know what I'm saying, stay home? Yeah,

(01:53):
at least it's sunny though. Sun. Sun brings a lot
of hope. Right. But anyway, man, we have an amaze
seen guests today. A former teammate of Mind, one of
the greatest point guards ever to play, a two thousand
eighteen Hall of Fame inductee without further Ado Man. Welcome,
Steve Nash, Steve welcome. Thanks for having me. Boys, that

(02:18):
was everything. We were talking a little bit offline. You said,
you've got five kids in the house. How's that going.
I mean, it's it's been, you know, the positive of
twin fifteen year old girls and you know teenagers, you
know they love to just revert to their phone. So
the positive has been like two or three hours a
day we'll all hang out as a family, and then

(02:39):
there's like that of the day where it's either like
I need a drink or I'm gonna jump out a window.
It's crazy. So but we're surviving. What are the ages,
because I know the youngest is to the youngest nine
months no, So so I have the three big kids,
Lo Lumbell are fifty in Matteo, Matteo's nine now, they're great, Lucas,

(03:03):
Lucas two and a half. And then little baby Ruby's
uh what she's about nine nine and a half months now.
So I got them all, I got all all ages, shapesses.
Thank you. Ruby is a beautiful name. Who I like Ruby,
that's a beautiful man. Thank you, thank you. Yeah, my
wife chose it, but I like it. Well, let's get going, man.
Congratulations again on your Hall of Fame induction in two

(03:24):
thousand and eighteen. You know, coming from where you came from,
minimal college scholarship offers, to be named to the Hall
of Fame, what did that mean to you? It meant
a lot. I mean, you know, I was like, I
was a kid who had one scholarship offer, you know,
Santa Clara that was there, or else I was gonna
stay in Canada playing college basketball there. You know, somehow
it all worked out and in the end, but for

(03:45):
me to be in the Hall of Fame, be recognized
for the hard work, to be in the company of
all those great players is definitely special, and uh, you
know something that uh you know, it's a moment in
time that kind of like put up put a bow
on the whole thing, right starting out playing when I
was thirteen, you know, making my way through high school,
college pros and and continuing to push and I think,

(04:07):
you know, it's just a nice kind of closure to
to what was an amazing experience of being able to
play this game that I love for as long as
I did. Eighteen years. Man, that's a long long time,
you know, getting a chance to play with you that
one year, Phoenix. I just saw how serious obviously you
kept body prep, maintaining your body, doing everything you possibly

(04:29):
could to keep your body in tiptop shape nutritionally physically.
Talked to us a little bit about that approach, because
I mean, for people who don't know, who haven't ran
across you, you're not that big and you were playing
to get the giants and doing a great job at it.
So talk to us about your your mental physical preparation
to to have that just crafty, crafty craft that's another

(04:51):
word for white. I was, I was, I was hello
white too, but uh I think you know, for me,
I was obsessed with the game. Uh I fell in
love with it as a as a teenager, played it
obviously all the time. Somehow got that one scholarship offer,

(05:13):
you know, somehow got myself in the in the draft
in first round, and you know, probably most people still
thought maybe a backup, you know, career backup, maybe a starter,
and just just never took my foot off the gas,
just worked and worked and worked every single day, you know,
stacked days and weeks and years on top of each other,
and just continue to develop. You know, I went. It's
it's strange to think now, but I went four years

(05:34):
of Santa Claris so, um, you know, came in the
league at played eighteen years, retired at forty, and probably
had my best years you know, in my thirties. So
you know, for me, I was uh, I would say, uh,
a late bloomer. I had to catch up physically to
the level of the NBA. UM. And then when I

(05:54):
was thirty and I reached kind of my peak, it
was about maintaining and trying to allow my body to
play as long as I could. So I was all
was looking for every advantage, whether that be physical training, conditioning, recovery, um,
being smart about the way I continue to sharpen my
skills and put myself in the best physical condition to perform,
but not overdoing it, not underdoing it, funding that right balance.

(06:16):
And then you know, I just tried to look for
those advantages and sleep and diet, um, you know, physical therapy,
whatever it may be, physical stuff, because you know I
need it. I mean it comes down to one having
a passion to do it, like I had an absolute
passion and competitive nature to want to compete, want to
be out there, want to play as long as I could.
And so when you have that passion, you're willing to

(06:38):
make sacrifices. And so I was willing to make sacrifices,
willing to learn, um looking into all sorts of different
ways that I could recover or perform or whatever it
may be. So yeah, I started with a passion and
then a curiosity and then just continue to dial it
in and unfortunately was able to play through my thirties. Hey, no, nobody,
A lot of people don't know Steeve that use my vet.

(06:58):
For a couple of weeks, I got for a couple
of weeks, you know what by the signs, man, I
got drafted by the side, remember I remember. But you know,
you know what it feels like way more than a
couple of weeks, because were we there like all summer. Yes,
we were working out there all summer, so like were
we might have only spent like two or three weeks

(07:19):
as teammates, but we were, you know, we were worked
out all summer together, and man, that was fun. We
had had a great time and you know, getting to
know you and being too younger guys trying to trying
to make a name for ourselves, spending that summer working
out with you or something I'll never forget. Hey, but
I tell people this all the time, Steve, and I
said it on this show before, and it's something that
you told me my rookie year. I don't know if

(07:40):
you remember this, and it helped me not only today
in lighte, but it helped me get through basketball, through
my career, and even even when I have such situations
that I'm going through, I think about this. You told me, Hey, Jack,
whatever you do, don't worry about just keeping it real,
also keep it right. You told me that my rookie year,
before I even got a chance to set foot in
the league. And I remember that to this day, Bro,
and I thank you for giving me that game because

(08:01):
I held on that all this time, through everything I've
been through, I held on that, and I shared that
when younger kids coming up to I'm glad I gave
you something. You know. The only lasted two weeks, but
somehow you came back on. Had a hell of a career,
and you meant you mentioned Hello White earlier, but I

(08:23):
think you got your black card the one time you
were up on stage and Nicki Minaj gave you that
lap dance had her cousin. What was that like? Um,
I was that was a unique experience. To say the least,
I'm gonna say I enjoyed it. Uh. I'm also gonna

(08:45):
say sort of sort of, sort of unfulfilling though a
little bit of a tea. That's funny. Hey, Also, man,
shout out to Legends. You know, we're partners in a

(09:07):
in a sports apparel company. I said, you got the
nice army green sweatshirt on right now. Shout out Legends Merchandise. Yes,
Steve one of the main owners. Um, talk to us
a little bit. What is life after basketball been? Like?
You shared that you know you have a house, fuld
of kids, But what have you been into personally passion?
I know you're a huge soccer lover. I know you're

(09:29):
huge on the content space. Talk to us a little
bit about what retirement has been like for you. Yeah,
I mean, you know, first and foremost, retirement is hard,
and I don't know how how you guys dealt with it.
You know, it took me two years to really be
like Okay, I'm good now. And I was lucky because
the end of my career was a nightmare, trying to
stay healthy, trying to play. When I was here with
the Lakers, it was like I trained twice a day

(09:50):
for over two years, trying to get myself, give myself
a chance to contribute. Um of eventually, you know, I
realized it wasn't happening and my body just had too
many miles on it. But um, that process I think
allowed me like a precursor, like to say, this is
gonna be difficult, Like I could feel where this is going,
it's gonna be over and then what And you know,

(10:12):
those some real soul searching when you're thinking like, Okay,
you've put everything you have into this. This is your identity,
this is your outlet. Um. You know, the competition, the teammates,
all the the schedule, you know that that process, you know,
even driving downtown every other night and showing off in
front of twenty people like those big, big holes that
you know basketball will leave behind. And so when I

(10:35):
struggled for those last two years, I think it allowed
me to start to you know, recognize that this is
going to be difficult. And it took me two years
to really get through the other side where I felt whole.
But a lot of that was due to the fact
that I wasn't like you know, it wasn't a terrible
two years, but it was like I could tell, you know,
like I'm transitioning still I'm still trying to come to
grips with this, like there's something missing, like something's pulling

(10:57):
me and I can't fulfill it. And so it took
me too years. I got through that. But the one
thing that I did do was give myself that time,
you know, not trying to rush. UM. I also, you know,
always prior to prioritize being a dad, so I spent
a lot of time with the kids. Still do try
to work all my other projects and things around the kids.
For the last wow. So I mean it's already been

(11:18):
six years. I think, you know which which has been
fulfilling and what I love UM, and then I fit
the other things I'm doing. So our content stuff at
Control Media, we're you know, we're working on a few
things on Pistol Pete film, UM, you know, doing different
things in all formats digitalal um film and television, and

(11:40):
you know, it's not a huge company at this stage,
but we're doing things that we're passionate about and enjoying
it and hopefully making great contact. UM I've obviously yeah,
I mean obviously I love soccer. I grew up playing
soccer my dad my home and dad from the UK.
My dad was a soccer player, My brother played soccer.
So I love the game. So I got involved with
my archive team and Spain UM as an owner and

(12:01):
I'm on the board there. So I've been trying to help,
you know, just contribute to building that club back up
when we got there. We're in the second division. We
actually went down to a third division, came back to
the second. Now we're actually in the top flight in
the in the Liga, playing against Barcelona and Real Madrid.
So that's been a really rewarding and exciting experience. That
that that I that I put time into, uh and

(12:22):
I can selt for the Warriors. So you know, I
have a little bit of basketball, a little bit of soccer,
a little bit of content, and a lot of a
lot of being dad. It's an actual movie about pistol.
It's gonna be a movie about Pisto pe dramatic. Yeah,
actual dramatic film. So we we um just signed not
saying you are, but if anybody can play Pisto Pete,
I think you could. We don't want. We don't we

(12:47):
don't want broke back, uh, you know, broken down pistol.
But hopefully, you know, it's we'll be able to tell
a great story about him. You know, I think it's
largely a father son's story, you know, I mean, we
can go through his career accolades and arc, but you
know what what made him the player and also what

(13:07):
made him kind of the tortured soul I think was
a relationship with his father. Um, so following that as
I think an important threat of the film. But we're
we're we We signed on a writer, director, Brad Furman,
who's um The Infiltrator with Brian Kriston. He's done The
Lincoln Lawyer with Matthew McConaughey. So he played college Hoops,
Loves Loves Pistol Pete, So he's in a unique position

(13:30):
I think to try to hone in on what the
story is. And uh, you know, I think as a
as a basketball player, you know, someone like Pete who
was kind of this you know, he was way out
of his time, but he was also a tortured individual.
You know, we want to leave a legacy for these
guys that many of kids, you know, younger than us.
You know, they don't know his story, so it would

(13:51):
be great to be able to tell it and familiarize
many people are refamiliarized, you know, the majority of people
with with his great story. I think he made a
great point. You know, we'll get to our next subject.
But the history of the game, I think today, more
than ever, kids don't understand it, don't appreciate it, rarely
respect it. And I think this quarantine situation has kind

(14:13):
of changed that somewhat, um with people being able to
go back and see old footage and see old games
on NBA TV and not just in basketball and all
different sports. Um, what are your thoughts on that? Because,
like I said, you have kids that are on the
internet all the time now and I do too, and
it's it's always what have you done for me lately?
Type stuff? What are your thoughts on just kind of

(14:33):
the lack of understanding with the history of the game
from kids today. Yeah, I mean I think it goes
hand and hand with social media. Um, you know, and
I get it. And I also get that, like if
they go back and watch anything like from our primes,
you know, it's not even high death, right, I mean,

(14:55):
they so like they when they first as soon as
they see it. They probably for these ds that have
grown up that everything they've ever seen is like Crystal Player.
They look at us right and and it just looks different.
So right away, there's probably a barrier for them. But
you know, I think this is great if they can learn.
You know, there is no current generation without the one

(15:17):
before and and all the way back to those pioneers
who started the game. So, um, you know, it's important
to respect everything that everyone's done in the past. You know,
I certainly respect this generation of players and think they're
amazing and love Washington Play. Um, you know, big fan
of the game right now and all the players, so
I think, but I think it's a two way street.
And I definitely respected those that came before me. And

(15:39):
I guess what you guys are getting at is that,
you know, maybe we had more reverence for those that
came before us when we are coming up and those
you know, even when we were just teenagers, we probably
heard about the history of the game, gravitated towards it,
wanted to know about it, and and had reverence for
those players that came before the ones that we were
currently watching. Yeah, well, and let's let's let's stick to
to that set. The Last Dance, it came out, It

(16:03):
came out yesterday. Everybody watched that. Everybody was tould it
to Michael Jordan's and the bulls. Um he was in
the league already at that time. You had to go
up against Mike. Give me uh, let's talk about that.
Give me experience too. Uh. You know, for me, he's
the greatest player to ever played the game, and he
was my hero as a kid, got a chance to
play against him, you know, seven I came in the league,

(16:25):
you know, and that was you know, the around the time,
right it was. I think so I think the Last
Dance was so my my second year in the league. Um,
so I got to I got to. I mean, you guys,
remember what it was. We didn't have so much access
back then to every single thing on Instagram or YouTube,
let alone watching games life. So you know it was

(16:48):
mj was must see TV. Like any time he was
on TV, like it was musty um. And yeah, I
mean he exactly. He just had this career isma on
top of all the gifts and skills and mentally you
know how great he is. I mean, playing against him
the one thing that I think that he was unlike

(17:10):
any other player I've ever played against, is that there
was a real fear playing against him, Like like people
I've never seen like the league be kind of fearful
of a player or have that much reference for a player,
no matter who you who you know has come since then,
you know that was a different feeling when you're playing
Mike because you just knew, you know, like there was

(17:30):
there was such a seriousness, competitiveness and fire in him,
and you know there was a fear with how that
was going to manifest itself potentially on any given nights.
So he was he was. I mean, where do you
want to start and where do you want to finish?
With him? He was? He was everything I think we

(17:51):
take because of social media stuff. For granted, you know,
I mean, we're Lebron is one of you know, our
heroes now and he gives constant access and you see
guy us from other sports give content access. But like
you were saying, that wasn't the case back then, you
know what I mean, Like there was no behind the scenes,
There was no going in the bulls locker room. You
didn't see the bulls shoot around, you didn't see him

(18:11):
j off the court and he is our one hero
that we didn't really get to see that from you know,
we got rest in Peace code started showing that um
post career, Lebron has been amazing from the jump. But
for us as as former players and Mike being someone
we idolized, obviously Mike and Pip in the bullets, so
we idolize it's special for us because we kind of

(18:32):
always wanted to know, like what was it like behind
the scenes, because we know what it's really like behind
the scenes, So what was it like behind the scenes
for them? You know? So I think it's it's amazing.
That's a great point. I mean, I don't know about
you guys, but watching the first two episodes, didn't it
just take you back to being a kid almost like
what it felt like to watch him like like it

(18:52):
like you just it's amazing how the Polly had over us.
And you're right, like we didn't get that access, like
he didn't get you know, like you said, all that
stuff that current players have just grown up providing. You know,
they've grown up with phones and cameras and social media
that there was none of that, you know, so you know,
to to go watch. It is like putting us our

(19:14):
generation back to our teenage or young years a kid,
and and and getting to see those things that you
never got to see. Um. You know, we hear the stories,
but to actually see some footage coupled with some stories
is incredible. Yeah, I think one good thing. Like I said, obviously,
there's nothing good that came from the loss of Kobe,
but I think at the his memorial, you know, the

(19:36):
way MJ stepped up. You know, we hadn't seen vulnerable
Mike before, We hadn't seen Mike open up for the
speech he game was tremendous. Him helping Vanessa down the
stairs was timely. And I want to say, and I
kind of feel like, and I hope I'm right that
maybe seeing what Kobe was on and what he was doing,
and how he was mentoring, helping opening up more, I'm

(19:57):
hoping that that kind of struck a match in Mike's
in Mike's mind, because I think he has been you know, what,
what would do process? I mean, the greatest ever, you
know what I mean. So I'm sure a lot of
ship comes with that. I couldn't even speak to what
comes with that, but I just think him opening up more,
um is as as a fan, you know, as a
grown man. That's what I want to see now, you
know what I mean. And I think with this that

(20:18):
with this last dance, I hope that we start to
get to see more of a Mike because he's been
the one superstar for a lot of people that we
just never really got to know off the court. Yeah,
I I completely agree. You know, it's um you know,
it's it's when I got to play with Kobe for
you know, uh few, you know, we didn't get to

(20:39):
we both got hurt. But having to share in the
locker room with him at the end of our career,
it was an eye opener in a sense because you forget,
we got drafted together, we played against each other our
whole careers. You know, you I thought of him as
a competitor. I thought him as as the competition, you know, predominantly.
So when I came to the Lakers and you could
see the like the worship that young players had for him,

(21:01):
you know, it was an eye opener because I never
had that perspective of him. But that's exactly how I
was with Jordan's if you know what I mean, Like
when I came in the league. So I've been there.
You know, I've been there. I'd done what they were
doing to Kobe. How exciting it was to play with Kobe.
I I'd done having the chance to play against Jordan's
you know. Um. And and so to get more from
from Mike. He doesn't owe anybody anything but to get

(21:24):
more of him, for him to, you know, to make
the speech at Kobe's service, for him to do the film,
for him to you know, just be a little bit
more opening. He's probably, like you said, relaxed. Uh, you know,
it's amazing for us. Um, you know, it's it's a
different time, right, like this might be it. We may
not get anything else out of him, but that's why
this is so special and we just gotta like, we

(21:46):
just got to enjoy it. What are your thoughts on
the Hall of Fame class? We were just speaking on
Kobe briefly, Uh, adding KG and Tim Duncan to that
summer saying that's arguably the greatest Hall of Fame class
ever to be inducted. What are your thoughts on that?
Hard to be that that trio, Um, you know, honesus incredible,
happy for all those guys, obviously. Uh, you know, it's

(22:07):
it's important for everyone to see Kobe go in and
kind of have that moment um to recognize what he
brought to the game, what he meant to the game.
I mean, you know, he was a great player, obviously,
but he touched a nerve with people around the world,
and I think we saw that when he passed. Um.
You know, it was incredible how just his name as

(22:31):
presidents meant so much as so many people in so
many places that maybe you wouldn't expect it to be
so strong. UM, So I think, you know, I mean, look,
those guys are all incredible, incredible all time grades. Um,
but it is also special. I think too that they
that they can go in with Kobe, Kobe can go

(22:53):
in with them, um and be recognized just for the
impact as much as as the accolades. You know, it's
it's something I think we all need to see. So
it's it's it's an incredible class and hopefully we get
to do it right, especially in this crazy time where
it's not gonna probably be your your you know, your
normal scenario. Hopefully we get some time to things can

(23:16):
get back to normal and we can honor that class.
The way they deserve to be honored. Very true. Taking
it back to your early days. Born in South Africa,
moved to Canada at a young age, came from a
predominantly soccer family, didn't start basketball to a twelve or
third team. What do you remember when you you know
where did that spark for basketball and wanted you to

(23:38):
pick up your first basketball start? Yeah, I mean there's
two things. Barely one was social. I went to where
I grew up in Canada. Junior high was grades eight, nine, ten.
High school is a grade eleven and twelve, So I
went to the eighth grade. Um had played a little
bit of basketball, and all the kind of jocks at
my new school all played basketball. They're all basketball players.

(23:59):
That was the number one sports. So I quickly wanted
to be with guys that were playing whatever you're playing.
I wanted to be on the playground plane. And so
all these guys were playing basketball, and we became, you know,
best friends, played back. You know, I'm just got totally
obsessed with the game. And it was exactly the like
it was right around the time that the Air Jordan
once came out and and Mike kind of burst onto

(24:22):
the scene and was like it was just like you know,
he was like a whole language and to himself just
watching him, you know, like it it was just such
an elevated performance. Um. And it was right around the
time that the you know, the air Jordan's came out
and he was doing commercials with Spike Lee. So it
was super like cool time to get to get into basketball.
I mean, now we have so much media around the game.

(24:43):
Back then, like a commercial was like, you know, seeing
an incredible like commercial with personalities like Mike and Spike.
You know that it was like going to the movie
theater almost like if you were lucky to catch the commercial,
you know, like you'd take you'd take teames and you
would rewind to watch the commercial ten times, you know. Um,

(25:04):
So that that that was definitely something that that got
me into the got me excited about the game. But
really it was social. I was still playing soccer and
hockey and baseball and all these sports. But you know,
and I saw eighth grade thirteen, these guys playing all
the time, loving the game. I have friends to play
with before school, lunchtime, after school, and um, I just

(25:25):
took it from there and never stopped and just got
more and more sucked in and obsessed with the game.
And UH, and I love playing it, you know, played
it a long long time. Senior year, you put up
some numbers nearly twenty one points, eleven assists, nine rebounds.
Who are you still in rebounds from? Uh? Lead your

(25:46):
team to the championship and was named player of the Year.
What was the competitive nature of high school high school
basketball in UM Canada back then? Yeah, well it was, well,
I think our year, our class was a good year.
There was some good teams, good players, like you know,
guys that could play, like a lot of guys that

(26:09):
could play some level of college basketball. But it was
you know, it wasn't you know where I grew up.
It wasn't always like the most as far as the
highest level, UM, but there was always good players. There
was always a good culture. There was always a lot
of interest around high school basketball. UM. It was probably
the most popular high school sport by far, because you know, soccer, hockey,

(26:30):
all those sports were playing at the club level. So
for high school super it was it was it was fun, exciting.
The provincial championships up there men a lot um you know,
I was, I was lucky, I had I had an
incredible coach, you know, he was he played college basketball
in Canada, was you know, really as good at mine
for the game as anyone I've ever played for. Uh,

(26:52):
he was. He was extremely prepared in detailed so I
got a glimpse of what I was going to see
from college and pro coaches in high school. A sense
where like little things, little details at both ends of
the floor, whether it's individually with your footwork or whether
it's collectively with rotations or timing and all those things. So,
you know, I got to play for an incredible coach, um,

(27:14):
and I've unfortunate that respect. I got to play for
a lot of great coaches. But that I think, you know,
gave me an education that allowed me to continue to
adapt while I was still physically kind of growing into
you know, my best level where I could compete because
I wasn't like a lot you know, I never was
a live wire, but I wasn't like this kid who
going right away, Oh yeah, I could see him playing
in the league. You know, I think people were like, right,

(27:36):
too slow, too short, too weak. So I had to
get myself up to like an acceptable level in all
those categories. But in the meantime. You know, I had
a good skill level, and I had a good understanding
and education of how to to play the game, and
so that allowed me, I think I need it at all,
Like I I didn't, you know, I didn't have the
you know, the fortune to say, well, just out you know,

(27:56):
out athlete, people jump over people, be faster than people.
You know, I had to I had to like shoot
it well enough, playmate, be smart, be a great teammate,
and know the game and and somehow I just kept
like finding a way to get to the next level.
And that that all started in high school with my
high school coach. You forgot craftiness, crafty Blanco, go ahead.

(28:24):
You kind of talked about it earlier, but being recruited
by one school, you know, going to going to Santa Clair.
Tell me some members about Santa Clair and being accrued
about one school. Yeah, I mean for me, it was
like it was exciting just to have a scholarship offer.
You know, Um, that was like my ticket. You know,
I wanted to play in the NBA. Uh And I
know at the time it probably seemed improbable, but I
could kind of see a clear path. I could see that,

(28:46):
you know, my skill level could get there, and if
I could athletically catch up a little bit. Um, you know,
with my work ethic, I knew that I would put
the time in and if I was improving at this rate,
you know, in in two years, four years, six years,
there's no reason why I couldn't kind of rate, you know,
rain some of these other players in. And and that's
kind of the way I went around about it. And Um,

(29:08):
Santa Clara was, you know, an incredible squad, a great
coach again, really tough, which you know, he was hard
on me, especially when I first got there, and I'll
say it was the greatest thing that ever happened to me.
I mean, you know, I I mean he had me
thinking about quitting, you know, and that going through that
experience like made everything after that. You know, it's easy

(29:30):
to overcome adversity. And and so I thank him. He
gave me mental toughness, as you guys know, like great
players in the NBA all have mental toughness, the ability
to overcome and to face obstacles and challenges. And that's
that's more than anything. That's what I got at Santa Clara.
And now the experience was great too, great teammates still
friends with a lot of with all my teammates, um,

(29:53):
and so it was a special experience in that respect.
But as a basketball player I learned a lot from
the coach and Prime Prime early. I learned mental toughness
and ability to just not give in, not fall, not
you know, take your foot off the gas, no matter
how dark it got. Some days you led them to
the tournament, Um, the n C Double a tournament. But
during the height of your college career, who were some

(30:13):
of the guys possibly in the pros or other college
guys that you emulated or studied or or try to
you know, take a little bit of their game and
added to yours. Yeah, so I grew. I mean my
hero growing up was Isaiah Thomas from as far as
who I wanted to emulate. Um, you know, he had,
he had everything, but he wasn't jumping over people. So

(30:34):
I was like, Okay, there's somebody that I can try
to emulate. Like he was quick, um, but like other
than that, he used his skill level, his creativity, his
competitive nature, like the fight in him was incredible, um lutch.
He was a dog. And so those are things that
I was like, Okay, I can try to emulate that.
You know, MJ was my hero. There's there's nothing other

(30:55):
than maybe his footwork I was going to emulate from,
you know, MJ. So so Isaiah was the guy that
I really tried to emulate. Um, you know, my my
freshman year of college. J Kid was a freshman too,
so you know, he came out after a sophomore year.
We played against each other in college, both in the
Bay Area. So I always, you know, strive to learn

(31:16):
from him and also try to, you know, put myself
and get to that level one day. Um so that
you know. But I was the type of guy that
I would try to take something from everybody. You know.
I would try to watch, you know, somebody do something
and and see how that could translate to my game
and how could I incorporate that, and and it might

(31:37):
come from the strangest places, but I was always watching,
always always learning from guys, watching them play, always trying
to incorporate what they did on the floor, and and
make myself grow and put more tools in my toolbox
that I could solve more problems so I could be
a bigger contributor to my team and just continue to
push the button there between your junior seening year you

(31:58):
played on the Canadian national team. You had a cat's
work out with Gary Payton and Jason Kid. What was
that like and what did they teach you? Yeah? Uh,
you know I worked out with with Gary and Brian
Shaw in Gary's backyard with Gurg. But he said, in

(32:19):
the backyard, so that's back in the day. That's like
you last on the outside of the on the submit court.
The who I love it. I mean Greg putting us
through drills out there. Um, I mean Gary must have
already been an All star. Brian you know, played a
long time in the league. Playing one on one doing
drills with Gurg. It was like it was incredible. You

(32:40):
know those guys Jason too, like they worked out at
other times together and you know they they were supportive,
you know, which is important. But you could also see
the competitive nature of the fire the like once you
step on the court, everything meant something. You know, like
there was no like I'll give him this one. You know,
it was like funk that and so yeah exactly so

(33:04):
so um I love that. I love like trying to
trying to creep up to compete with them, um and
to get that access, you know, nowadays, I think I
feel like there's so much access, whether it's you know,
high school player getting to meet pros, getting to know
everything they've ever done, um in the gym, Like well,

(33:25):
you know, back then, there wasn't that same access because
the social media YouTube, Instagram, you didn't really know what
guys did right or what they were like so um,
and it's changed in a sense like now and nowadays,
everyone really drills drills, drill skill development. You know, back
then there was a lot more like one on one
like pickup basketball, like competing, like learning through I'm gonna

(33:46):
play one on Yeah, we're gonna play one on one,
and if you beat me, I have to figure out
a way to beat you. Like what is it is?
The angles? I take the footwork? How do I create space?
Like you learned it by trial and error and by
necessity in a sense, whereas nowadays it's like the books
have all been written in a sense, like you know,
there's so many people out there just teaching the game.
But there's which is great, but there's something lost in that,

(34:09):
like really like competing, and I think that you know,
you can do all the drills in the world. Um,
you can learn all the footwork and everything, which is important,
but um, there's something built on battling, you know, and
playing and losing and winning and picking yourself up and
like you know, nowadays, it's just it's a different generation.

(34:29):
I don't want to make this a slight because it's
nobody's fault, um, but sometimes you know, there isn't enough
of that, like where guys are like you know, in
the gym, I'm gonna put myself on the line against
this guy. Now it's like, well there's phones everywhere, Like
I'm not sure I want to like play one on
one with so and so and have it be on
the ground the Graham in five minutes. Um. So it's

(34:50):
a different it's a different it's I mean, that's just
one small Anectope. It's a different time. But I learned
a lot from from Gary Jason, and uh it just
felt good to kind of in a set find feel
a little acceptance because I was one scholarship kid in
a mid major trying to make a name for himself.
And uh, it was great experience. And I think you
hit on it too. I think obviously now that because

(35:13):
this is no slight to knock everyone is too. But
that the talent and skill level athleticism is incredible right now,
but I kind of think that some of them lack
the the i Q and some heart when it comes
to actually, like you said, going one on one outside,
it was a war. There was no buddy buddy, There
was no cell phones. There was no pictures that would

(35:34):
we would fight like there used to be some real
ship that would help you get and stuff that we
would take from our teenage years to the NBA. And
I think you, like I said, there's no knock. It's
just a different generation. But obviously times were different with that.
When did you feel like, Okay, I'm gonna be a pro?
What what You're in college and high school? Like, when
did it really click to in your mind like Okay,

(35:56):
I could do this ship for a real living. That's
a good question, I think, you know, being and like
an underdog, I always had that underdog mentality. So I
never really like counted my chickens, you know. So I
had a great junior year. There was some talk about
should I leave, you know, it wasn't It was much
less common in those days, especially for you know, a

(36:17):
Canadian kid at a mid major like well we have
you know, like we need to see more of him
kind of things. So I stayed. But I think like
I started to realize. I think I played in the
World Championships after my sophomore year and had and started
for Canada. I must have been years old and had
a good tournament. There was a lot of NBA scouts there,

(36:39):
and then that kind of started the buzz to where
I was like, Okay, this really could happen. And then
had a good junior year, thought about coming out, didn't
and then had maybe not quite as good as senior year,
just you know, dynamics of the team, were facing a
lot of attention from the other teams, but still had
a great year. Went in the first round. Somewhere between
like the summer after my sophomore year, UM and and

(37:00):
being drafted. You know that it was building, you know,
I was building it. But again when I got to
the league and when I was the first round pick,
you have a three year guaranteed, like there's some security there.
I still came in the league as an underdog, like
I have to prove myself every day, Like there's no like,
there's no I've made it, you know, there's no like um,
you know, I belong. I mean, there was no entitlement.

(37:21):
It was like I I felt like I had the
appropriate fear that I have to prove this every day
where I could be out, you know, I could be out.
So it's just it's just different, you know, at different times,
you know, and you know, like back then, you're a rookie,
you got treated like a rookie. You know, you got
treated by a teammate, and they just made a big
trade though, Big Dyce, McLeod all them. It just came

(37:43):
back right when you got there at some point I
can't remember they were there. Uh yeah, I think that
was right. You're right my rookie year, right, because that
was the reason why they had one draft pick with
me the next year, because they made those trades to
get those guys right, right, Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean
it was and it was yeah going now. And to

(38:04):
keep it realized, like to touch on what you're saying,
a spade is a spade. You're a small, little white
dude playing against g P J Kid all these guards
like we're not gonna you know, we're gonna bust this
white dude's ass. And that's how I mean that talk
is still prevalent until today. So I can only imagine
back then, like you know, you're coming from a mid
major trying to make your name, but you're nice. But

(38:24):
like you know, I could only pitch are GP saying
I'm not gonna let this white dude bust my ass,
you know what I mean. Every every single night you
were going to war with solidified Hall of Fame point guards.
You know, back then it wasn't so much about social
media and all that, but you didn't want your friends
back home to know that this little white boy just
turns you off, right, So there was a little extray sometimes,

(38:47):
but you know that makes you, That makes you tougher, right,
it makes you more consolutely I'm saying that's part of
that grind, makes you, you know, just thicker skin and
and to be able to survive, because it is it's
a in the NBA like there's you know, a big
part of his just survival, right like, because if you're
if you're not if you're not ready to play, you

(39:08):
can get embarrassed. If you get embarrassed too many times,
you're gone, right, Um, So you know, maybe it is
a little different now. The players, now, you're right, they're
so athletics so they're but they're a little more specialists,
you know. They Um made a sense. It's just a
differently grow up with differently and they're amazing. I love it.

(39:28):
But it was a different time and you you definitely
just had to you had to really earn your stripes
with your teammates, you know, the referees around the league. Uh,
you do today, you do today. This is not like
I love this generation, So this is doesn't just giving
you a picture of both um. But back then, it
was like, I mean I remember after every practice, like

(39:49):
a C. Green was one of my vets and he
just like kick every ball all over the gym, the
stadium wherever we were, and were like go go get
them rook and you know all that type of stuff.
So it's just a different era and uh, and I
loved it. I was. It was great to look back
on all those memories, especially now that that's a bygone era.
It's crazy, man, Like I don't feel old, but like

(40:10):
it's a bygone era. You know. We had we had
John Morant on last week and he was talking to
us about music and he called jay Z old school
and me and Jack kind of looked at himself like
fuck yeah, I mean he is you know what I mean,
These kids are these kids are one years old, like
he's old school, and it's just like, damn, that went
by fast. You know. We speak to like we used

(40:33):
to come in and there used to be a pecking
order no matter how good you were, because there was vets,
you know what I mean. So to be talented, lottery
pick whatever, to crack that lineup, it was different. We don't,
no matter how good you were, someone on your team
or that was gonna have a problem with you trying
to crack that lineup. But it also, like you said,
it made us tougher, made us stronger. And then you
had those vests that would put your arm around you

(40:54):
and and and school you, you know what I mean,
keep you from making the same mistakes. And I really
don't see that anymore from a standpoint of just the
league is so young, so your your your VET is
a couple of years older than you now, which is crazy. Yeah,
I mean the way the salary cap is to you know,
like a vet minimum for a guy who's played twelve
years over a talented um, you know, explosive kid that

(41:18):
you want to take a chance on, financially, like you know,
it's it's much more manageable with the cap and all
that stuff. So the model doesn't really support you know,
vets in that respect anymore. Um, you know, there's there's
there's very few like Jared Dudley's around anymore, whereas like
there was there was a there was two or three
on every team when I came into every team. You know, Um,

(41:40):
you know, the vets kind of yeah, the model and
it was the model of the salary capital, all that
stuff supported that, and now it doesn't. It's not not
for better for worse. You know, I think it's a
shame that we don't have room for both. But um,
you know, that was definitely a benefit in respect of
having vets that could show you the ropes, that could
you know, teach you, share with you, keep you in line,

(42:03):
and that was you know that that's gotta be a
little bit more difficult for young players today because every
team has got like four or five year olds. The
draft legendary Alan Iverson went one, Canby went to Sharif
abdul Rahim three, Marbury four, Ray Allen five, Antoine Walker six,
Carrie Kittle's eight, Kobe thirteen pages fourteen, you land fifteen.

(42:26):
What do you remember about that draft? And got I
mean how talented that class was. I mean it was
one of the best times in my life, you know,
actually getting drafted and kind of like like I talked
about the Hall of Fame putting a bow on it. Uh,
it's like the draft kind of justified all the hours,
you know, like getting drafted in the first round. Like really,

(42:47):
you know, it's the reward. Was that moment of like, okay,
all that time, all that energy and hustle and all
the tough days, the days you didn't want to do it,
you know, this is the reward. And so it was
a special, special time. And then you know, at the time,
m I knew it was a talented draft for sure,
but you don't know in context like where everyone's gonna
go on, what kind of careers are gonna havena happen.

(43:07):
You have no idea, so like there was no way
you could have predicted it, but um, but you but
I knew there was a lot of personalities, there was
a lot of talent and uh, and looking back, it's
it's incredible to see the careers that so many of
my classmates had first time around in Phoenix. Who who
were some of your bets. Yeah, my vets were like
Rex Chapman, Danny Manny, Yeah yeah, sat next to Rex

(43:31):
on the plane. Hilarious. Uh, taught me a lot, still
friends to this day. Danny Manny was a great, fat,
unbelievable player, like and he'd already done as a c L.
Back then, it wasn't as it wasn't like a c
L s now where you come back because Danny was
like a six ten point forward. It was really quick.
He lost a little much game. He has no and

(43:52):
when he tore his a c L like today, you
come back fully, maybe even better. Sometimes it wasn't it
wasn't like that, and so you know, he lost a
little bit of quickness and I think a lot of
like mobility durability in that knee. But he could play
so smart six ten, could post, could point play the point,
could pass, red react cut, you know. So I learned

(44:13):
a lot from those vets. Kevin Johnson, hot Rod, you know,
hot Rod, Williams Rest in peace, Wayamon Tisdale rest in peace.
You know guys that were just you know, good pros,
uh supportive. Taught me a lot, and so you know,
I was. I was fortunate. You know, I came in
behind Kevin. We traded for Jason, kids like Jason and Kevin,

(44:35):
so I also got to play behind two great, great
point guards. Um and and I learned a tremendous amount
from those guys. Donnie Nelson was in the office in Phoenix.
He moved to Dallas and they trade for you the season.
What was that light going over there? And and and
with with the young Dirk and Mark Cuban as an owner. Yeah,

(44:55):
I mean at first I want I didn't want to,
you know, go. I love Phoenix, you know, Uh, Jack
will tell you it's great down there. You know, Phoenix beautiful. Yeah,
it was in a great city. The organization, Jerry was unbelievable. Um,
you know, it just felt great. It felt like home.
And my second year with Jason and Kevin, I still

(45:16):
got like twenty plus it's a game. Danny Ainge was
crazy enough to play all three of us together, and
and that was That was a great moment in my career.
Playing with Jason and Kevin and still being able to
push myself in a twenty two minutes a game or whatever.
My second year was a great accomplishment for me. And
was proving that I was continuing on the right path.
So then for it to be kind of over and
in respect um after that season was disappointing. But uh,

(45:40):
Dallas one of the worst teams in the league. I
got traded there on draft Day when Dirk got drafted
by the Maths, and we played in the old Reunion Arena,
and you know, it just it wasn't in the same
place that that Phoenix was at the time, so it
was it was in a sense, it was like step down.
And then we had the lockout that year. I remember
I was playing a pickup game like a week before

(46:01):
training camp, and I got knocked out of the air
going to the basket and landed on my back. And
I struggled the whole year, and that's when I realized
I had back problems that season. You know that I
that I congenital and had a long time, But that's
when I really that they've presented themselves and became a problem.
So I struggled the first lockout year, struggled a little
bit the second year, and then you know, DRK and

(46:21):
I think turned a corner Mark Cuban about the team,
and the Mavericks became one of the places to be,
so to speak. So got ourselves to the conference finals. Jack,
you and that team were you, uh San Antonio Dallas
Conference finals lost? Yeah. Um remember Stevie Kerr came in
and hit like four or five threes in the fourth
quarter of the clincher. Um. Anyways, So playing from Mark

(46:47):
was incredible. Um. You know it wasn't all you know,
like market could you know in some ways get under
your skin at times. But he was such a pioneering
person for the game, like pushing the envelope on everything,
the rules, you know, the way we went about things,
referee marketing, like so many ways. He tried to everything

(47:10):
that that that we did in the league, and so
it was incredible to watch him. He's a kind of
a force of nature in that respect, and so to
be there from the start with him was it was
exciting and that was a very influential time in my career.
I don't have the team and scoring that game by
the way, Oh would you drive? How many had Okay

(47:32):
in the clinching game game six? Yeah, I think people
forget I was just saying, I think people forget Jack.
You would like the second you're like the second best
player on the team. People forget like I don't talk.
I don't talk much. But see when we have guests
like the m VPS like you, and Hall of Fame
is like you, that's all I need. I don't talk

(47:53):
much because people I got, I got over shadowed by
the four three Steve here, but if they look at
quarters one, two and three, I had Tim on lock.
Tim couldn't get a bucket and I had to say this,
man Gino, actually man g nobally say this. Yeah, I mean,
you guys obviously had a great team and a stuff,
but I think sometimes you're a little run There might

(48:13):
be a little underappreciate it. We recognize that. Take us
back a little bit to to the development, uh developing
a friendship with Dirk and his growth and when you
guys kind of felt like you guys were clicking in
your chemistry started hitting and you like, holy shit, this
motherfucker's gonna be a problem. Yeah, I mean you can

(48:34):
see right away. We I mean, first of all, he
said you can see right away. I mean you can
see the kid was talented. I mean just the way
the ball left his hand and the way it fell
through the who right like hecause a seven. Guy shoots
the ball way up in the air and it comes down.
It comes from down in the it comes down like

(48:54):
not a swish, like a swish on the bottom of
the net, you know what I mean, like it touches
the net. You know, you're like this this there's some
I don't know, there's something going on here with this kid.
And he was people I think, especially like nowadays in
social media, you think you see Dirk is like this
guy with his ankles basically locked, can't move. But he
was super mobile. Back in the day. He wasn't explosive,

(49:18):
but he was mobile, you know, seven feet he could
really move, put the ball down on the floor, spin,
run the court, you know, catching and make plays off
the dribble. You know. So you could see he had
all these things athleticism in that way. Um, when we
came in though, I mean we were one of the
worst teams in the league. He was Dirk was really

(49:38):
going through a lot of culture shock, like he was
playing second division in Germany or maybe maybe they just
got to the first division, you know which back then
especially was a far cry from the league. He's nineteen
years old. You know, he was a mama's boy. And
here we are in Dallas. Um, I'm struggling, he's struggling.
And so the good news was that we came in
the same day together. He isn't even gonna come and

(50:00):
play that lockout year. We convinced him to come back
and play. So we kind of in a sense, had
each other to lean on to, to push each other,
to play one on one horse, to go back to
the gym at night, to keep fighting, keep pushing each
other while we struggles while people were down on us.
You know, there was a time people probably thought both
of us were going to be out of the league
in those first two years. Um, but we kept working

(50:21):
and I went through some injury stuff and he went
through kind of that adaptation to living abroad and playing
in the league. But I think having each other was
huge because we pushed each other. We you know, continue
to encourage each other, could see there was a path
for us if we continue to work at it. And so,
you know, we stuck with it. And we went from
one of the worst teams in the league and barely
contributing to the conference finals and and and playing in

(50:44):
All Star Games. And that was a very influential time
in my career two thousand two, you guys beat UM
Minnesota in three games and then end up falling to Sacramento.
I mean, KG is one of my ever players and
FAY players to play against. The passion energy, you know,
NonStop talking. Uh, couldn't shut up. But I love that.

(51:07):
I love I love the personality and and and more
than anything, I really respect because I know what he
put in. I know much time and effort, and how
professionally was he worked really hard. He was incredibly professional,
great teammate, UM, so he did it the right way,
and so it was it always a pleasure to play
against him and during my career and then to play

(51:29):
as that sacramental team, those Rick Adelman teams, UM, you know,
I mean, you know, good guards are great guards obviously
Mike Bibby, Doug Christie, UM, but they're big. That had
been Paige obviously was maybe their best player at their
different times during that run. But you know, the passing
of Vladi and Sea Webb was unbelievable for two people guys,

(51:51):
you know, and it allowed them to play the game
in a way that was so rare and so difficult
to defend. That ball just moved and and guys with
you know, they space the floor and make you pay
with back cuts or threes and and it was beautiful.
And you know, that year we lost to them in
the playoffs, I really felt like Doug Christie and Adelman

(52:13):
had a big impact. You know, whenever we were doing
our two man game on one elbow or on one wing,
you know, they bring Christie over to the middle of
the paint um. You know, he would kind of he
would actually come all the way to the strong side block.
It wasn't no three seconds seconds you had to well
you yeah, but you also you had to either come
or stay. And so he would come all the way

(52:33):
instead of and take and so you don't have to
throw out to the corner. And they would either rotate,
stunt and get back and but inevitably the ball was gone.
I was out of my hands, you know. So it
was either played two on three versus Doug Christie is
the their man, or throw it to the weak side.
And I remember that really hurt us in that series.
But that's those teams were fun to watch, fun to

(52:54):
play against. Sacramento was an incredible place to play building.
I felt like it was alling down, but the energy
in there was incredible, a two thousand three sixty win season.
Beat Portland's seven, beat Sacramento and seven. And then this
is where my bad I misspoke early. You ran into
the Spurs in the Western Conference finals where my co
host had a big game. Six. Talked to us about

(53:17):
because that was that was your last run in Dallas.
Talked to us about that. Yeah, actually that was the
second That was my second last year in Dallas. Um. Yeah,
we got to the conference finals. I think they beat
us four too, and actually we won a game without Dirk.
Dirk like twisted his knees saying he was hurt and

(53:40):
he missed two games. One of them we won I think,
to make it three too in San Antonio. In San Antonio, Yeah,
we beat them at their place without Dirk to go
to bring it back to two three. Then we went
to Dallas and that was the Steve Kerr game where
he had those four threes in the fourth corner jack
in the big game. Um, you know that was those

(54:00):
That was a tough team and and I don't know
that we were ready, but it made us try to
our our franchise, try to take steps to get over
the hump. And so we signed Antoine Walker and Antoine
Jamison the next that summer. Um, and and it kind
of it's it was, it was, you know, they were
that it was ballsy. They tried something, but really you
got you got ants both Antwine's and Dirk playing the

(54:23):
same position. They're all kind of like mobile fours, and
so it uh, it just didn't work. Um, it was difficult. Um.
And that was I think that I had. You know,
I was always a pass for us guy, and so
I tried to make this thing work. So I first
part of the season, half of the season, my numbers
were really down. But the second half of the season,

(54:44):
I think I shot over and played well. Um. But
I think it was like a sign to Mark Human
that like maybe he thought, like this is I was
coming to the end because I didn't quite have the
full year that I had had prior so that that summer,
you know, he didn't he really didn't make a big
effort to keep me. I think he thought he didn't
want to overpay. I think he'd overpaid a few guys.

(55:06):
Didn't want to overpay an hating point guard. Um. And
that's you know, that's how I ended up in Phoenix.
Really was is that he wasn't you know, I don't
think he was confident in my future at that point.
Um talked to us a little bit about that second
time around, because you guys had a fucking squad and
Maori Shawn Mary and Joe Johnson q rich that small
ball Uh was so fun to watch and play against

(55:30):
the answered in two to talk about that, Yeah, yeah,
I mean yeah, Like it was a fun obviously a
fun team team. I think they kind of took the
league by storm. You know, we were absolutely you know,
I think the year before we're at we're one of
the you know, maybe one six games. So coming into
that year training camp, people thought like, this isn't a

(55:52):
playoff team. This is a team that you know, might
win thirty something games. Um. So we came out of
the gates I think like thirty one in five. Um.
You know, basically you know, just running people out of
the building and we're playing a style and a pace
that was you know, it was rare, and I think
it was exciting for the fans. It was fun to

(56:12):
play that style, but also we were punishing people and
so um. But it was a young team. You know,
a lot of guys who had never played in the playoffs,
got to the you know, I got to the conference finals.
It got to actually play Dallas, my former team, which
was which was difficult, but beat them in the in
the semifinals, then played the Spurs again in the in

(56:32):
the finals, lost four one. That was a series that
Joe Johnson missed. Um. He played I think the last game,
the clincher that we lost. UM. So that was tough.
It was, you know, they were they were a terrific team.
They they had a lot of experience as well, championship
pedigree and all that. But you know, it was tough.
We were already a team that didn't play a deep
bench at all, and so to lose a players talented

(56:55):
as you know, as Joe was, and especially he was
coming on, you know, he was getting better as the
season went on and was pivotal kind of big guard
who could make plays, be the backup. People don't realize
how good he was. Joe Johnson was so because he
was just so mild mannered and quiet, but so talented.
Just so much game, you know, so much game. And

(57:16):
he was like six pounds um and and athletic when
he wanted to be so um, you know, to lose
him was tough. To lose him to Atlanta that summer
was even tougher. Uh, But those years in Phoenix were incredible.
UM gave me, you know, some of the best memories
of my career. We we played an incredible playoff series.

(57:38):
We never got over the hump, but I think we
played in three or four Western Conference finals in an
an incredibly difficult Western Conference at the time. So um,
you know, we didn't make the finals, but you know,
those were years where the team that came out of
the East we were beating by thirty twice, you know.
You know, so we didn't get to the finals, but

(57:58):
we we also were finals caliber team that just played
in the Western Conference where you have to get through
you know, big teams touched you touched on it tough
because the West was definitely dominant back then. But for
you to win back to back m vps UM during
that that that run in Phoenix was historical, was amazing.
But it caught a lot of people by surprise. Talk

(58:19):
to us about that. Yeah, I mean I think it
was you know, I went from UH an All Star
player to UH to an m v P and and
you know, I'll never put myself in a category of
Tim Duncan or Kobe Bryant. But I think those teams
were special. I think our team we lead the the
league in scoring. Well, I think every year I was there,

(58:40):
and so I think there was you know, and I
think also we we forget and Tom I want no
no that have to defend myself, but it's like you're
forgetting time that you know, although like I average, you know,
somewhere between fifteen and eighteen points in those years, you know,
you know, I would close games and score the north
quarter a lot more and when when it was needed.

(59:02):
But I still came from the school of being a
pass first point guard. So I was never like I
gotta go out and get twenty fives. And I was
always like, I want our team to flourish. I want
guys to feel good and get easy pockets, and I'll
step up when I have to. And so those were
special years where I think I took a jump as
a player and became more of a threat in every way.
But I also got to play with the team that

(59:23):
fit really well, maybe needed someone to create for them,
and then they could finish, uh and they could finish
with the best of them so it was a perfect
fit in a lot of ways that it highlighted my game,
highlighted their game, and I think collectively we were very
difficult to control. Talk to me a little bit about
playing with a Mariti Stadtermeyer who who was a killer,

(59:44):
and then Shawn Marrying and too. I mean, those are
two guys that you could put the ball anywhere. They go,
get rebound, lay defense, played hard. What was that like
playing with both those guys? It was awesome. I mean,
you know, especially for someone who loves to to find
his teammates, you know, they're both are incredib ball athletes.
A Marii first of all, incredible feat for a big
guy like really could could move, change directions, and he

(01:00:07):
had big hands and great hands and so you know
once once he got a piece of that ball, he
could suck it in and you know, I was I
could finish with the best of him one ft two
ft um. He was incredible as a pick and roll
partner of transition. Sean was you know, Sean was an

(01:00:27):
incredible athlete. Like his quickness, speed from end to end,
his quickness, ability to guard multiple positions. Um, you know,
he his second jump was almost as good as his
first so he could do so many things athletically. They
were so incredible. Um so it was it was fun.
I have these two two guys I could throw lops
to or find on the break for finishes and use

(01:00:49):
their athleticism and speed to cause the defense problems. And
uh yeah, I mean I was very fortunate to get
to play with those two guys. Um oh six of
mart goes down with the knee injury. Uh Rajabelle dil Barbosa.
You win your second m v P. You're on the
Clever Slam magazine and the and the headline is is

(01:01:09):
Nash better than Stock? Then? Kid? What were your thoughts
like that? Because things were coming at you so fast,
Like I said, you were approving all star. You're jumping
into this m v P caliber, which you know, only
Hall of famers basically, you know, get a chance to
do What was all that success like? And how did
you take it? And how did you handle it? I
always felt like an underdog, So I always like lost
myself in in like you gotta work, like if you

(01:01:32):
have a big game or you had a big season
your m v P. I never was like I ad
made it. I was always like I need to do more.
I need to do it again. I need to continue
to approving. So I never really like took in like
the accolades like that. I always like move right back
to my work, you know, right back to my process
and just trying to stay focused on what that is.

(01:01:54):
Um one, it helps you handle the pressure and expectations.
But to like it keeps you, keeps you sharp, keeps
you growing, keeps you getting better. Uh, it simplifies everything
if you just know this is my process. I stick
to the way I prepare and perform and recover. You know,
then then you're thinking about what matters and not getting
letting the rest of the stuff get in your head.
So yeah, I just i'd always just reverted back to

(01:02:15):
my work. I had a great chemistry talk about how
tough wasn't losing a mar Yeah, I mean that second
year Mary didn't play. We still made the conference finals.
But you know, Boris Dia was phenomenal playing the five
the four um as a play Yeah, and Steve, I Steve,
I don't mean to cut you off, Steve, but I
tell somebody this and they asked me who was the

(01:02:38):
most talented playoff ever played with my NBA career, and
I told him, bars D, I don't know why people
don't believe me. Yeah. He I mean an incredible basketball player, UM,
incredible field for the game passer. Uh could could use
that body to you know, to punish smaller guards when

(01:02:59):
he got the switches and was was quick enough and
clever enough with the ball even though he only goes
right to to roast big guys from the perimeter. UM.
And just like he was, you know, he had the vision,
like high high level vision to pass. You know. So
when I had to pick a role with the Mari,

(01:03:20):
you know, I'd find a Mari for finishes. When I
had to pick and roll with with Boris, you know,
if I draw two defenders and threw it to him.
Now he's playing two on two, three on two, and
he's the point guard getting in the teeth of the defense,
and he was he was incredible in that position. So
that was great. I mean, playing with all those guys
though Sean Mari Boris had felt great chemistry. Um. And

(01:03:42):
then on top of the chemistry on the court, we
always had fun. Like we had great teams. We had
great teams that would go out together, go eat together,
go to the movies together, spend time together, so there
was always a little yeah, there was always a little
more on it. There was always a little more feeling
in the dressing room, and and I think that was
something that made our team special as well. Two thousand seven,

(01:04:02):
Mari's back. You guys win sixty one games, he plays
the whole season. Uh, second round against the Spurs. It's
getting heated to too, if I'm not mistaken, and uh
oor it takes one of the most blatant cheap shots.
And this is coming up. I don't really take cheap shots.
I just made hard fouls. But he takes a blatant
cheap shot that kind of changed the whole outlook and

(01:04:27):
and and uh of the series, and it was through
suspensions and guys stepping on the court. Talk to us
about that time, because I mean, obviously the Spurs went
on to win. Uh they beat Utah and then swept Cleveland.
I mean, I thought you guys had a great chance
to win a championship that year with the hell of
a team, the style of play. Mari was healthy. Talked

(01:04:47):
to us about that second round matchup. Yeah, man, I
mean it's painful to think about, you know, like it is.
I mean, I love life, and I'm like life moves
on and I great life. But like, you know, we
had a great opportunity there. I think we at that game.
We tied the series too two with their place going home,

(01:05:09):
going home to regain home court, and I was right
at the end of the game, you know. Um. And
then then Mamari and Boris gets suspended and obviously we
play incredibly small and leading all of Game five until
the last minute, and they overtake us. Uh, you know
what could have been. But for whatever you know, reason

(01:05:30):
that things happened. I always look at it like I
could have made another player too to get over the
hump and didn't. Um. But definitely there was some some
some luck involved, as there always is, and and we
didn't get the breaks. But that's a it's a you know,
a team that always found a way to put themselves
in a position to win and so maximum respect him,

(01:05:50):
and they got us again unfortunately. Just a little context
that for those who don't know. So it's what Game four,
you guys to winning that game, right, So we win
Game four in San Antonio. I actually watched it recently. Um,
I watched I never watched anything, but um, Bill Simmons
does that book a basketball podcast, and he asked me

(01:06:12):
to watch that game and talk about it. So I
watched it on my phone like right away, like anxiety
levels through the roof, like thirteen years and it was
alarming to watch. You know, it was alarming to watch
because we're supposed to be this fast paced team that um,
you know, push the temp on. The reality is we
played right into the first hands that game four in
San Antonio. I think we we either took or made

(01:06:35):
five threes. You know, we we won in San Antonio
one on one like nine seven or one o three.
You know, I mean, we should have played so much faster. Um,
you know, the way they played that big and how
dominant Timmy was. They always had another center alongside him,
and um, you know, so to be in that position,
it was incredible considering I don't think we played a

(01:06:55):
style it's contrary to kind of like how we remember
it that really you know, represented our best opportunity to win.
But uh, you know, hats off to the Spurs. But
it just shows, like I said, you won their way
and that and that's a sign of a team that
can win a championship. You know, especially considering that was
the Spurs. You know, so you get fouled a Mari
and bors step on the court that NBA rules step

(01:07:18):
on the court, which eliminates them from Game five, and
you know the rest is NBA history. So that's it's brutal.
I mean, they you know, they were reacting in shock.
You know, they didn't like chase anyone down. They jumped
and then there's five or six assistant coaches all on
the on the sideline. You have to go on the
court to see around them, you know what I mean,

(01:07:39):
Like you know what I'm saying, Like you it was
right down the sideline, so they couldn't like, look, they
took a step out to see if I was okay,
and you know it wasn't. Definitely wasn't the spirit of
the law. It was like a technicality in a sense.
So it was a full shit. We didn't get to
play the series out absolutely. Um Any truth to the
rumor that you would spoken to KG that summer about

(01:08:02):
coming to Phoenix, Yeah, there was there was a time
ownership asked me to call him uh and recruit him.
Would have been an incredible player to play with, but
we didn't have full calf slot that other teams did
so in a sense. I And Kevin tells this story
too that I told him, I'm kind of embarrassed to
call you because you don't have to take a pay
got to come here, but we'd love to have you.
So we did have that conversation. He respected my honesty.

(01:08:25):
The reality is we just you know, he would have
had to take a you know, a much lower salary.
So I was never really close to happening. I don't
think we tried to get into around the town that
was up standing. Were trying to get around that time too. Yeah, yeah,
he said it was Phoenix. He said who was his
Phoenix us? He wanted to play with Code too, and
it ended up being Boston. Yeah. I mean that was

(01:08:47):
a perfect situation, the way they kind of engineered that
whole team. And I mean it's almost crazy that they
only won once. Yeah, crazy. As good as they were
two thousand and ten, you'll probably beat the Spurs, you
meet the Lakers. You played against Kobe in Game six,
and Kobe go crazy to talk about that. That was
he was unbelievable in that game. Um, you know it

(01:09:08):
was it was I don't know that he had a
great series until that game. But I remember they won
two games in l A. I thought we got a
terrible whistle. We came back to Phoenix and one hind
and one easily. Then we come back to l A
to two, and that's the game. We we came flying back,
tied the game with like a couple of seconds left,

(01:09:29):
had all the momentum, and then Kobe missed a game
winner air ball and uh run our tests ran in
and caught the ball like around his waist to flip
it up off the glass. When's when's the game? And
you know, like, oh man, that was like another slap
in the face for me, just game five, just thinking like,

(01:09:52):
you know, we get Kobe Bryant to miss the basket completely,
you know, we have all the momentum, and we give
up like a crazy offensive rebound Austin up high off
the class. So we go back home, Um, you know,
down three two, and Kobe as a as a classic.
You know he's making everything, making deep deep threes with
grand Hill all in his face. Uh, he was just

(01:10:14):
he was totally on fire and uh had a great
game and and deserve to close it up. M M.
The summer of two thousand and ten. Um, did you
guys think that was your guys last roe with them? Mark?
Did you think had you had conversations with him, did
you think he was going to leave? There was there
a chance? Did he say it was staying? What was that? Like?
I thought he was gonna leave. You know, our ownership

(01:10:35):
group was was adverse to going over the salary cap.
They also, I think we're scared to give him ARII
you know, within troubles he'd have with his knee, um,
both knees, I think, uh, you know, the full max.
And and so I knew there was teams out there
in the Nicks in particular, they we're gonna give him
the max, so he would have to take a big
pay cut, not only I think in salary, but also

(01:10:55):
in in length of years. So I thought it was
pretty clear that there was a great chance he was
gonna go. And you know, that was it. That was
the end of that kind of run, so to speak.
And you know it was it was an incredible run
for me playing with the Mari was one of the
best partners I had and had so many incredible nights,

(01:11:18):
you know, being on to play with him in transition
and pick and roll and on a lot of playoffs success.
Never got to the finals, but we're close a number
of times, and uh, I'll never forget it. And that
was that was an incredibly fun time in my career.
Two thousand twelve. You're thirty six years old and you're
coming to l A to play with Kobe Actually thirty

(01:11:40):
I think I was thirty eight. Yeah, thirty eighth old man,
excuse me coming to l A play with co lakerside
dwhite Um talked to us about that time. Yeah, it
was exciting. I mean, you know, the big My first
priority was I was going through a divorce, so I

(01:12:01):
wanted to come to l A over Toronto and New
York the other two options, because it was close to
Phoenix and it was so much uncertainty, you know, going
through that period. So that was, you know, the number
one reason. But then to be able to joint forces
with those players, obviously thought we had a championship opportunity,
and uh, couldn't have been more wrong. I've gone more sideways,

(01:12:24):
but coming here, I was excited. Um. I actually I
think made my last All Star Game that season at
thirty eight before I came to the Lakers. So I
still believed I could have a big impact, you know,
And I don't know how much of it was, you know,
I was losing a step, or how much of it
was me breaking my knee at the start of that season,

(01:12:44):
breaking my tip fip joint. I know I was never
the same after after I fractured my knee. Um. But
the whole thing, you know, Dwight was coming off back surgery.
I think I think he rushed back. I think he
rushed back because I had to white in in Orlando.
And when I tell you, I've never played with a
more security blanket in my life. He was incredible, and

(01:13:07):
it hurt me because I knew, you know, when you
come to Lakers, you you can contest to it's just
a different aura that you're expected to win. You're expected
to be your best. There's no excuses. Fuck everything else.
You're a Laker, so nothing else matters. So him coming
back rushing back, I personally knew that he wasn't ready.
But I think you alluded to something too that people
don't think about in the process, that in the mental preparation,

(01:13:29):
the mental toughness, you're going through a divorce, you know,
I mean, so you're still trying to put yourself in
a position where uncertainty. I still want to be able
to see my kids. I don't want to move too
far away without getting too far into your personal life.
Talk to us about that, because people don't see that
side of athletes and realize how important other stuff in
our life is when it pertains to our our our
our craft and our profession. Yeah, I mean I think

(01:13:52):
anyone could you know if you took a second to
examine that, how difficult that would be. Um. You know,
I was like I would fly back times after practice
to go to my well, how old the girls have been.
They must have been like eight nine years old, go
back for our soccer practice and fly back after it,
you know, just just to just to see them, to

(01:14:14):
get those touches in, so to speak, Um, and get
through that school year. You know they moved to l
A after the school year. But um, yeah, I mean
it adds to it, right, It adds to everything. And
maybe at that stage in my career, the stress didn't
help when I'm trying to, you know, overcome so many things.
But you know it was it just wasn't meant to be.

(01:14:34):
And I put I've never worked as hard in my
life as I did for those two years, trying to
make it happen, trying to contribute, trying to be near
my best or at a level that I could really contribute,
and and it was an exciting prospect. And in the
end it was a disaster, but still a great experience.
I got, Like so many times, when you go through
difficult times, you know it's tough in the moment, but

(01:14:55):
when you get through the other side, you realize that
you learn a lot. You were challenged, so allows you
to handle the next things that come in life. So
it was it was incredible to get a chance to
play for the Laker organization, to to meet all the
people and that I've been a part of that for
so many years. Um and so I take a lot

(01:15:15):
of positives from it, regardless of all the negatives. When
did you start to explore cannabis during this process? Uh?
You know what my You said cannabis right, yes, sir? Yeah,
I thought you said. I wasn't sure. You said Canada.
I was like, well, from the job, Yeah, you know what,

(01:15:36):
I'm not I'm not a I'm not a I was
never really a smoker. But you know, the Indica has
really helped me sleep. I don't know if you guys
use Indica for sleep, but I use it for life. Yeah,
that man, Like honestly, if it was if it if
I didn't, I wasn't aware of it during my career,
but sleeping was always a problem for me, and it's

(01:15:57):
the number one way to recover. Um, I really wish,
you know, it could have helped me perform to have
you know that sleep agent that it isn't you know,
as as kind of gnarly, as like the sleep pills
that I refused to take because the in fact they
have on your body. Um So so really I've I've
I've been using that since I retired, and it's given

(01:16:19):
it's improved my life, Like I sleep better, Um, I
you know, I've more reserves to be a data five kids,
um and do all the things that I want to
continue doing. So that's kind that's kind of the extent
of it for me. Well, what are your thoughts on
cannabis to the betterment in professional sports? Like you said,

(01:16:39):
to recover, to sleep, to to do all the things
you didn't know at the time it was helping with
because I had a conversation not to uh you know
to go in the direction with Steve Kerr when I
was with the Wars the last year I won a
championship and he had the uh, those back problems, the
spine problems, and and and we had a conversation about
oddly enough a player talking to his coach, but he
couldn't he couldn't, you know, he was just in a

(01:17:01):
horrible position. And it was telling me that, you know,
some of the CBD stuff and the TC stuff he
was using was really working. I'm just like, wow, you know,
me being you know, Jack to someone who smoked cannabis
since I was fourteen. I loved seeing that there was
finally medical research and studies to prove what we already
knew and would make other people more willing to give
it a try, you know what I mean. And you

(01:17:23):
were one of them. Yeah, I mean the proofs in
the pudding right, Like it's becoming legalized, so we we
know enough. We're educated enough now to know that it's
not like the stigma that needs to follow it around. Um,
there are so many purposes and packages that allow it
to help many many people. So I think it's it's
just one of those uh parts of evolutionist society that

(01:17:47):
we're gaining, and I think within time it'll be a
much more mainstream and common thing in all people's walks
and lives, especially for those are professional athletes. So, um,
you play with a lot of a great a lot
of a lot of players, a lot of great players.
I was one player that you could play with that
you didn't play with, who would it be? M um?
I mean it's interesting because like Jordan was my hero,

(01:18:09):
so you'd love to say I could play with Jordan's
But you know, also you know the other players of
our era that I competed against. You know, I don't
really feel like necessarily like I wanted to play with
him because I always felt like we were competing against them. Um.
But you can imagine though, like the I want to
be like, especially in that era, to play with you know,

(01:18:32):
a great big like uh you know, not not not
that Tim, Tim Duncan, Kevin, Kevin Garnett, Um, those guys.
A Maori was more like this mobile like big forward
and he was incredible in the pick and roll. Those
guys were more of those like they owned the game
under the basket at both ends. And uh so that

(01:18:54):
those those guys would be incredible, especially in that era.
You know, we're like a rim protector was just so
invaluable important, you know, the way the game is played.
Uh favorite point guard to go to battle against mm
hmm uh has had some great battles with Jay Kidd.

(01:19:14):
You know that's kind of my era. Uh, you know,
he was somebody that I think I really admired his
you know, the way he played the game and how
special a player he was. So that was he was
one of my one of my favorites. So that actually
this music, what's you're listening to? What you gotta repeat

(01:19:37):
right now? Um? He was so funny, like with five kids,
Like I'm like, when do I listen to music anymore? Unfortunately,
so you know you end up listening. My daughters love
Harry Styles, like that was the last concert I went
through with me. You know. It's, um, it's crazy. So

(01:20:01):
I still try to like, you know, moving music still
moves you, and it's always cool to hear good, good music.
But it's like crazy, how in having two little babies
the last three years, like music has just fallen out
of the window. I just think nothing new, it's it's
it's kind of sad. Hopefully I'll get back to it

(01:20:21):
one day. You've been named dropped by a lot of artists.
I know I've been I've been lucky, right, real quick,
I wanted to touch on real quick. You said you're
consulting for the Warriors. Me being there that one year,
I was just fucking blowing away about the workouts you
would put Steph and k D through. But to see

(01:20:42):
k D doing what Steph did at seven ft and
the balance and the spinning and all the ship you
had them going through, it was just U. I used
to enjoy at the inter practice, sitting and watching that.
Talk to me a little bit, just a little bit
about that. Yeah, I mean I think like when when
I coach, teach whatever you wanna call it, guys, you know,
I always try to start first with movement, like being

(01:21:06):
on balance, moving correctly, because I think that if you're
moving well, and you're moving in the right way, um,
and you have the mobility, stability and the dynamic movements
that if you get as as close to your potential
in those areas, your skill can take off and your
skill can take over. You know, if if you start

(01:21:27):
cutting corners on the way you move, you know, you
Nick gait. I think your your skill and your ability
to to make plays at your potential. So Kevin is just,
you know, like most of the greats, they move really
really well. And he's just a freak in that he's
six ten, six and eleven whatever he is and skilled
and explosive and can control those long favers. I mean, yeah,

(01:21:53):
we ever have we ever seen someone that's like that
explosive and that controlled but at that length um inaccuracy.
So you know, he's special obviously, and uh, it was
it was fun to work with him. It was like
I said, well, what blow me away was You're you're
not teaching guard movement, but you're teaching balance and all

(01:22:14):
that kind of stuff. So you see staff at six
three doing it, and then you see Katie right next
to him at seven ft doing the exact same thing,
and I'm just like, God, this is It's insane, it
is it's it really is crazy. Um, he's you know,
let's let's hope we get the best Katie back after this,
because he really is a beautiful basketball player and moved

(01:22:36):
so well for someone with such long leavers. Absolutely, last
question of the day. Rank these three players for me
in your opinion? M J, Kobe, Lebron. It's tricky, you know.
I think MJ's my guy for sure always. You know,
when you talk about Lebron and Kobe, like, I totally
understand why people have Lebron where he is either first
or second in many people's eyes. You know. Um, when

(01:23:00):
you look at the whole picture of everything Lebron's done
over his course of his career, it's hard to argue with.
I think at his best, Kobe was right up there
with any of them, you know, Um, you know he
I don't know where the knock is, but um, you
know he he when he was flying and playing at
his best, you know, he he was as good as

(01:23:22):
we've ever seen. So, UM, I don't know. I think
you probably you probably had me saying Jordan, Lebron, Kobe
on the total picture, But um, I mean, how do
you go wrong at their best? There? They all three
of them at their best, all three of them that
played the game at a at a level higher than
uh you know any Yeah, cool, hey man, that's a rap. Steve,

(01:23:49):
Thank you, We appreciate your time. All the smoke. You
can catch us on Showtime Basketball, YouTube and all platforms
streaming podcast. Oh them. It's something about how this place

(01:24:15):
forms a different kind of person. On my high school team,
we have five guys make the NBA. We had the
County rock at you mentioned Prince Shortis County. People know
it's about it's the meta of basketball. There are those

(01:24:37):
who have come before us, upon whose shoulders we stay
here for this area. You have to have tough skin
that Jim became in sanc You warld p G County
guy provide buckets for America. Prince Georgia tacks a lot
of power, a lot of character. It's nothing that you

(01:25:01):
can do to stop that competitive and we're pushing the
community and a culture full. There's just in the water. Mh.
This life was all I ever wanted. I'm not leaving,
not yet. I was hoping you'll say that you gotta

(01:25:24):
hit the streets, make some money. Paple like us. Let's
destroyed people like him, not all up them. Get Showtime
free at showtime dot com.

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Steve Nash | Ep 34 | ALL THE SMOKE Full Episode | #StayHome with SHOWTIME Basketball

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Steve Nash | Ep 34 | ALL THE SMOKE Full Episode | #StayHome with SHOWTIME Basketball