November 22, 2024 • 35 mins
Just like animals, many plants and trees are at risk of becoming extinct. Even the mighty oak is in danger of extinction due to habitat loss and rapid changes in the climate. In this episode, hosts Rick and Marco speak with Christy Powell, horticulture manager at the San Diego Zoo. They discuss why oak trees are so important, as well as all the different and innovative ways they are working to conserve and propagate this incredibly iconic tree.
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hi, I'm rich Schwartz.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
What is the s world? I'm Marco went.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to Amazing Wildlife. Reb explore unique stories of wildlife
from around the world and uncover fascinating animal facts. This
podcast is a production of iHeartRadio's Ruby Studio and San
Diego Zoo Wildlife Alliance in international nonprofit conservation organization which
oversees the San Diego Zoo and Safari Park. Marco, I
have to admit I am really intrigued by what you
(00:29):
shared with me a few weeks back about work being
done to save the endangered oak trees. And honestly, how
fitting that our last episode featured the iconic elephant, the
largest living land mammal that helps shape ecosystems where they live.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
And now we're going to spend this episode finding out
more about the mighty oaks that, like the elephant, shape
the ecosystems they live in. And you know, beyond that,
the oak trees have their own ecosystems as well.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
But here's the thing. People see trees and other plants
around them all the time, but they tend to take
them for granted. Of course, not everyone's like that, but
I must admit, living here in San Diego County. Seeing
oak trees in our green spaces and the parks, I'm
kind of guilty of taking it for granted too. I
never realized so many species of oak are listed as endangered.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
Oh.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
I know how you feel, Rick, But you know, here's
what I found out that even with there being species
of oak trees in trouble, our horticulture team and our
scientists they've been working on finding new ways to save them,
very much like we do with a lot of our wildlife.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
And with our wildlife, we can create safe populations under
human care. We can work to eradicate invasive species and
stabilize ecosystems. Oh and of course the frozen Zoo is
so important for saving and storing genetic material to help
maintain genetic diversity for the future.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Absolutely, and you know the same goes for oak trees, Rick.
I mean, we can create safe populations, we can remove
invasive species.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
But you know, until recently, there was no way.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
To use the frozen Zoo as a way to support
oak tree conservation.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Wait what really, But isn't there this whole seed bank
thing like sort of like a frozen zoo for plans?
Speaker 4 (02:00):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (02:00):
There is, and we totally need to do an episode
about the seed bank sometime real soon. Yeah, we do, absolutely,
But for the oak and the way that the acorns are,
you know, freezing them and doing long term storage was
never an option before.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Wait wait a minute, you said never an option before.
That seems to imply that there is an option now.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
What happened? I know?
Speaker 3 (02:21):
Well, you know, I think it'd be better for us
to ask someone on the horticulture team about this, don't you.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Oh, let's see talking to a horticulturist about scientific breakthroughs
that save an iconic tree species that creates its own ecosystem.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Yes, please?
Speaker 3 (02:33):
All right, well let's do it. Let's head to the
San Diego Zoo and find out some more.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
All right, let's go.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
I am Christy Powell, horticulture manager at the San Diego Zoo.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
Good morning, by the way, this is a beautiful, like
misty morning here, yes, right.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Kind of a plant friendly morning. I got exactly the
mist and the drizzle going. You are the manager of
the horticulture department. What does that mean? What do you
do because we're here to talk about oak trees? Yeah,
and clearly you're the person that knows about this project.
What's going on, But in general, what is your day
like or what is it your job entails?
Speaker 4 (03:06):
Sure, yes, so I oversee Africa Rocks and part of
Elephant Odyssey, and then some of the nursery, greenhouse operations,
the orchid house, propagation facilities, and oversee a lot of
the conservation projects here at.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
The zoo, And so our audience knows. So you're mentioning
areas that they might recognize as animal areas Elephant Odyssey
after Rocks, and they go there to see the animals.
But one thing we learned is that the Horticulture department
does so much to bring in the native species of
plants for those regions that they represent. So you're overseeing
(03:40):
all of that diversity of plant life across those areas
of the zoo, including the propagation area that you mentioned.
And then what we're here to talk about our conservation stuff, right, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Okay, it's actually one of my favorite areas.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
I gotta say, Africa Rocks and plants there are breathtaking,
So really nice toof with that. And yeah, to Rick's point,
it's a good reminder for our guests as a cruiseenter
around the San Diego Zoo they might see it hand up,
but some of the projects that are around them from
growing our own food for our wildlife. But to Rick's point,
there's a lot of science behind some of the things
that we do.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
And in particular this species.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
You know, being a native San Diegan, every time like
I go somewhere else and I come back when I
see like a California oak, it really feels like I'm
definitely back home. And I never really thought about it,
you know, until this interview. You're like, well, what makes
an oak an oak? Like, what separates it from other
trees out there?
Speaker 4 (04:22):
Well, most people are familiar with oaks having acorns. They
think of large trees native to the Midwest or you
know those regions where there's really large trees. In California,
we have some large trees. A lot of people are
familiar with the coast live oaks in San Diego County,
but we have a great diversity of oaks in San
(04:43):
Diego County. It's actually the highest in California as far
as the species diversity. So we're working with a lot
of those different species in San Diego County.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Oh wow, that's wild.
Speaker 5 (04:53):
I didn't know that of all the California.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
It kind of makes sense, so I've heard, you know,
I think we've mentioned it last season. San Diego County
is known being the most diverse county in the nation
when it comes to wildlife, so it makes sense that
it's reflected in the oaks as well. Can you share
with our audience why San Diego County has the most
diversity of oak trees.
Speaker 4 (05:12):
Yeah, so just our region that we're in. We have
all the way from the coast to the inland habitats,
all the way to the mountains and the desert. So
there's just such a diverse landscape in San Diego County.
And some of the species that we work with are
right near the coast, So like quirkes, Dumosa, the nettles
(05:33):
scrub oak, that one is right near the coast.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
And that's what I love about San Diego County. You
mentioned it. We have desert, mountains, beach, coast, all that
inland areas. I think people, especially if they're coming to
visit San Diego, they don't realize just how much is
going on when it comes to different ecosystems and how
you can forty minute drive being a completely different ecosos
I know, you were forty minutes ago, and that's reflected
in our oaks here, and that's what we really want
(05:57):
to talk about. We came across an article written in
house by one of our writers that publicized and even
though we're a part of this organization, we were like, whoa,
this is really happening. A lot of people think the
mighty oak, the oak is strong, the acorns that gives life,
there's so much there. They're fine, right, But the reality
is they're not. There's a lot of challenges the mighty
(06:18):
oak is facing, along with many other things out there.
And Mark, when I talk about panda conservation or koalas
or all the other species out there, not too often
do you hear about or think about the oak. So
maybe paint the picture for our audience, what is going
on with the oak treason? Why is the work that
you're a part of so important? Yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:36):
So, there's about four hundred and fifty species worldwide of oaks,
So there are diverse species. They're found in a wide
range of habitats. They're mostly in the northern hemisphere, and
they perform critical ecosystem functions in our world. We have
about ninety one different species in the US, and they
are threatened with extinction the mortinarbreedam and others with the
(06:57):
IUCN Red List. They did a survey about the Red
List of the oaks and they found that a third
work threatened with extinction and about a fifth in the US.
So we need to work together to help save our
oak species.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Yeah, so I was going to ask, I'm imagining it
maybe droughts or heavy floods.
Speaker 5 (07:17):
Is wildlife trafficking an issue for some oaks?
Speaker 4 (07:19):
Not really for No, it's mostly habitat destruction, So a
lot of the species live in areas where their habitat
is destroyed, and then also change in fire regime pass
due to a lot of climate change issues as well.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
Yeah, and they're so essential. I mean in this article
you were referencing rick by Alion. By the way, it's
on San Dieg Zoo Wild Left the Lions dot org
paid slash story Hubs, so definitely check it out. It's
a wicked article. But with that, I didn't know oaks
they absorbed so much more carbon than other trees around
the world too, I was reading, So the necessity of
these trees is so important for us, right, not only
locally but to your point four and different fifty species
(07:56):
of oaks worldwide.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
That's that's crazy.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
And keystone species, so they provide habitat for thousands of
different species, even like I think nine different species.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
Right there was butterfly and moths living in these things.
The diversity of life and those is incredible, right right.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Well, yeah, you know, we talk about the individual or
just the species of oak is endangered, and I often
can see on people's phases when we're doing like public
talks and say, okay, well it's a tree, we'll be fine.
But that's where it's important. You mentioned that keystone species.
We've talked about that before in this podcast with pandas
and other species as well, that when you work to
(08:37):
save that one, you're actually working to save so much more.
And when we talk about trees, I really believe it's
not common knowledge enough that there are so many species
that live within the ecosystem of a single tree, whether
it's the butterflies and moths and other bugs and insects.
They offer food for birds, The birds offer to be
food for others, and then the roots can be homes
(08:58):
for burrowing subtest animals or even fox that have that area,
or badgers whatever, who's nesting in the tree. I mean,
the list goes on and on about what a single
tree can offer in its ecosystem. And then right in
front of us you brought in a wide variety of
small species, and small in the sense that their babies
compared to what they will grow to be. And also
a plate then of different acorns from oak trees, which
(09:20):
again offers so much life for species that live in
and around the area of oak trees. So the idea
that we are losing oak trees to the point where
there are red listed or critically endangered is alarming, and
I appreciate that you brought up the fact that a
lot of it's lost to habitat destruction, wildfires, climate change,
insects and all of that. It's really important thing for
(09:41):
people to understand the quick rapid changes that are occurring
in these ecosystems. The oak trees never evolved for these
things that are coming up, and we see that across
the board with many species. Can you talk a little
bit about some of the efforts that were initially in
place for preserving oak trees, and then we'll get into
what we have currently started doing too.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
So we're part of the Global Conservation Consortium for Oak.
So we joined that group in twenty twenty. And what
that is is a concerted effort led by the Morton
Arboretum and Botannic Garden Conservation International BGCI, and it's an
international effort to save oak species. So we realize that
you can't save them by yourself, so you need to
(10:23):
have a coordinated effort and it's focused a lot on
what botanna gardens and arburita. We're a credit botannic garden
here at the San Diego SOO Wildlife Alliance and also
Level four Arboretum. Now we just we're able to have
that designation as well.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Correct, excellent, wonderful.
Speaker 4 (10:40):
So we're working together with other botannic gardens, other arbreta institutions,
universities to have an effort to save these oak species.
So our work is with six priority oak species in
Southern California, Baja California and the Channel Islands.
Speaker 5 (10:55):
Are these the ones you have out in forests right now? Yes?
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Oh, you guys don't know, but she brought up these
wonderful examples of are these six species referring here right?
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Wow?
Speaker 2 (11:04):
They look incredible.
Speaker 4 (11:04):
Yeah, And since we just started in twenty twenty. Ours
are all babies right now, so they're in little tree
pots about two years old, some of them three years old.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
How long does it take for an oak tree to mature?
Because I think that might boggin some people's Yeah, right,
how long? Yes?
Speaker 4 (11:21):
So oak trees are long lived species, so they can
live hundreds and hundreds of years, and they don't produce
acorns right away, so it can take a number of
years even to produce acorns.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Wow, is production of acorns in where the tree is
considered matured at that point? You know they can live
for hundreds of.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
Years, right, Yeah, they're mature when they start producing acorns.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
Pretty unique seed too, I guess. I mean I'm looking
at your play right now. I want to get the
sounds here on the micro fact really really cool. Well,
it makes an acorns so unique. I mean it's a
pretty cool looking seed for one, but I know there's
a lot of reasons why it has this shape. Right,
we can all picture oak seed and if not googlely
kids on your phone you can totally chuck out the
image of what it looks like.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Yeah, just describe to me an oak seed looks like.
Speaker 4 (11:58):
Yes, So acorns are kind of uniqu most people recognize them.
They have a point to them, and then a cap
on the tip, and the cap and also the acorn
can help distinguish what kind of oak species it is,
so you can tell the acorn cap if it has
bumpy or if it's scaly, different things like that. The
(12:19):
inside of the cap as well, and then even the
shape of the acorn, and some have striations on them.
So these particular ones that I brought today are Chrysolepis,
so it's an inland species oak. Why we harvested those,
they're not one of our priority oak species. But what
we want to do is grow those acorns and then
(12:39):
since it's the same family and also the same section
of oak or golden oak as the Quercus cedrosensus, we're
hoping to grow those seedlings and graft on the top
of the Quercus cedrosensus so we can be able to
propagate it because it's not producing acorns very well.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Oh yeah, so I have to ask real quick for
our audience, what do you mean by grafting on? I
know what that is, but basically you just said you're
going to grow these acorns that are not a part
of a species that's endangered to then use that sprout
or that growth to graft on a different species that
is endangered, right, correct, So what does that mean? Y?
Speaker 4 (13:19):
So, my thought before being a manager was a plant propagator.
So as a plant propagator here Atagoz you for thirteen
years before management. So when you graph something, it's pretty
much like when you think of your fruit trees that
you have at your house. So most of your fruit
trees are grafted, so those have a rootstock and they're
resistant to different diseases and things like that. And then
(13:40):
you can take a scion or wood or like a
sprout of another one and then you grow that on
top of it, and it makes it so that your
apples or whatever you're growing are consistent so they have
the same exact genetic Because you want to production agriculture,
you want things to be uniform and taste the same,
which in here we're looking for more biodiversity and genetic
(14:04):
diversity in species.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
So essentially what you're doing is you're allowing this acorn
to sprout, create a root system that can survive better
in whatever soil and or be disease resistant for what
the endangered species may not have a root system for.
Speaker 4 (14:23):
Not in this case. Okay, so yeah, let me back up.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
I'm super curious because basically what you're doing is you're
taking two different species and not really mending them together.
They naturally grow together and then the roots feed the
stock of the other species. But I want to get
to why we're doing that with the.
Speaker 4 (14:42):
Open right, Yeah? Correct, So they actually fuse together over time.
So you put the cambium layers together and then they
actually confuse over time, so it's pretty neat.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
The cambium layers are the inner bark, right, that's the
inner bark layers, so they match up.
Speaker 4 (14:56):
That goes through right, So.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Essentially it's almost like the trees and says, oh, I've
been wounded. I want to heal that. So that then
grafts them together. They fuse together on their own. That way,
the root system feeds. But what's producing acorns and what's
on top is the true species, even though it's roots
are from a different species, just giving the nutrients up
that way. Okay, so why are we doing that with oak?
Speaker 4 (15:18):
So quirk is Cedar's census. The Cedars Island oak is
only found in a small population on the O Tai Mountain.
So we've been working with San Diego Botanna Garden and
our Plant Conservation Group and Sandy Botanic Garden was able
to collect some make corns in twenty twenty one. So
we have one of those individuals here today.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
This guy.
Speaker 5 (15:36):
Yeah cool, he's a little extra speky.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Than the others.
Speaker 4 (15:39):
Yeah. When they're little, they're more spiky, and then when
they get bigger they have more entirely march.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Yeah. Is it kind of like a defense mechanism probably, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (15:48):
Yeah, for a lot of them. We go down to
o Ti Mountain our staff with other partners with Sandy
Botanic Garden, and we just actually took the International Oak
Society down there as well with on a tour.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
That's great.
Speaker 4 (16:00):
It's a small area on Bureau of Land Management and
there's quite a few trees down there, but it's the
only place in the United States that has quirke as
cedar cedar silent oak. Otherwise it's in Baja California, and
then also a population in Cedros Island.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
That's great.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
You mentioned there's several ways to try to preserve these
species of oaks, but there's something with the seed, right,
There's different processes and how do we preserve this thing
as opposed to another.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Okay, hold on, hold on, I keep looking at the
I want to know your question is important and we're
coming up next tor. I want her why are we
doing the grafting with oak?
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Answer?
Speaker 4 (16:37):
Yeah, So when we've been observing these oaks over the
last years, they haven't been producing acorns, or they've been
producing acorns, and then we go back later to collect
them and they're all gone. So we've been trying different
methods of being able to have them in exitute collections
without having acorns. So you know, if other species you
try to do asexual propagation, which is propagation from cuttings
(17:02):
or air layers things like that, so that's what we're
kind of trying to do now. So we actually were
able to put some air layers on, which I'm sure
you're going to ask what air layer?
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (17:14):
So air layering is another process that you can use
to propagate a species when you'd want to have the
same exact species and you don't have acorns or something
like that. So in this case, what we do is
we take a branch of the oak, and we take
off the bark, we expose the cambium layer, and then
we put sphagnum moss or some kind of material in
(17:36):
there around it, and then we close it with a
plastic bag and then put aluminum foil over top of
it and keep it moist. And we were able to
harvest our first one about eighteen months after it was
put on and started.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
So what happens inside that plastic bag, in that wrapping
after you've moved the bark? What happens in there that
you're yeah.
Speaker 4 (17:53):
So actually produces roots? Okay, yeah, yeah, so since you
kind of disturbed the bark. Plants are pretty cool that way.
You can disturb it and you can cause a stem
tissue actually become a root tissue.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Wow. Yeah, and so then you can harvest that often.
Now you have the standalone stem and you have the
original tree in which you came from. That's so cool.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (18:14):
And we actually had one planet an elephant honesty now too,
one of our little babies that we took as an
air layer.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Yeah, we gotta check it out now.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Yeah, So all these different ways we have to create
a new tree, either whether the suit grafting so we
can have a better system for it to get some acorns,
or to do the air layering. Yeah, and now Marko
your question with the acorns, what is it that we're
doing with the acorns to help not let these species
go extinct?
Speaker 4 (18:38):
Right? Yeah, So since sometimes we don't have acorns available,
we're trying these other methods, and so we would also
try the grafting where you would take pieces from the
wild and then put them onto new little seedlings that
hopefully then you can have a whole new tree from that. Right. So,
oaks are exceptional species, which means that there are acorns.
(18:59):
They can't be banked in a seed bank, so they
can't be dried down, they can't be frozen. So that's
what we rely on a lot for conservation of plant species.
We have a great seed bank at the Beckman Center
where the plant conservation staff are going in San Diego
County and collecting seeds of threatened plant species in our
(19:21):
county and banking them in a seed bank. But oaks
are unique in that way that they're seeds are acorns.
They can't be frozen and banked, so we have to
look at other ways to preserve species.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Different ways. Why can't they Why can so many species
of plants? We can do the deep freeze and the
frozen zoo version or the seed banking. But the acorn can't.
Why is that?
Speaker 4 (19:43):
Yeah, so you can imagine acorn is pretty large and
when you dry it down you actually kill the embryo.
Oh yeah, and if you freeze it. You know, some
of them can be frozen when they are in areas
where they're used to the cold and be fine. But yeah,
when you dry it down, it kills the embryo inside exceptionally.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
That's the words to you, right, And that's again it
goes back to then understanding what these trees are used to,
what environments they have evolved for, and now the rapid
changes that are occurring. We jump in, we want to
do seed banking, and yet it looks like our only
options are going to be to just try and propagate
more and keep those somewhere safe. Those living trees no
(20:24):
opportunity to keep them in a frozen area or a
seed bank area like so many other species. So we
might have these groves of new baby oak trees that
we've saved, but wildfire comes through or disease comes through,
and that safe population as we call it in our
conservation world, or that population that that grove that was
supposed to be the next generation to prevent them from
going extinct is now gone. So what has been figured
(20:48):
out that we can still safeguard these species?
Speaker 4 (20:51):
Yeah, so one way is through living collections, so growing
them from acorns or cuttings or however we're doing it,
and then growing in the botanic gardens and sharing those
with other botannic gardens around the world, because we've found
out there's not enough room in any one botanic garden,
and we shouldn't be growing every individual and every species
(21:13):
in one botanic garden because if something happens, then they're
not backed up. So the idea is a meta collection,
So it's a group of coordinated efforts of many different
groups working together to save different such as these oak species.
So we would have some here in San Diego, would
have a conservation grove, would send them to another botanic
garden they would have some there. So we're trying to
(21:36):
get together that coordinated effort to share collections with different
botanic gardens.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
That's really great and I love the collaboration of it.
You think all these projects, you know, like Panda, obviously
all of it recurred to me too. I mean it's
obvious when you really think about it. But you know,
people go to the zoo or the Safari Park. I
love the world gardens at the Safari Park. And you know,
being botanical gardens that we all are, people often forget
the conservation aspects of all that there's necessity for these
areas for us to grow these really essential species of plants.
(22:04):
Where to your point, if you just grow in one
little spot, you know won't be the best outcome or
plan really to protect these species, right, So kudis for that,
So bring on the guests it comes to these botanical
gardens honestly because of this is just amazing work.
Speaker 4 (22:16):
Thank you. Yeah, And we keep track of all of
our individuals too, that we collect from each individual mother tree.
We have all the proper permits and everything to do
with the collections, and then we keep track of them in
our Plant record database system. So you see that each
of these have an accession tag, so it's like a
lit license plate for each individual's plant. And then when
we can look up that number, we can see where
(22:36):
the GPS coordinates where that we collected that individual from,
what mother tree it came from. Yeah, So then if
something happens from the wild, will know what population to
return them to if we need to in the future.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Yeah, that's amazing, right.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
I mean we talk about the Frozen Zoo in the past,
you know, collecting animal DNA our genetics. But this is
just an exciting for me too that we have areas
to preserve a lot of wonderful species of plants.
Speaker 4 (22:58):
Yeah, and since you mentioned the frozen Zoo, Yeah, that's
another way that we can preserve oak's long term is
through cryopreservation.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Oh really, yes, can you describe that for yeah, exmand
on that because that's one thing we can't do with
the acorns bankings. But there's been a new twist to
cryogenically freezing oaks, so yeah, tell us about that, right.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
Yeah. We had a post doctoral associate, doctor Joe Ree
that was here for three years and he worked on
the first step of cryopreservation is actually getting something you
have to work with to put into cryodpreservation. So you
can't just take something straight from the wild and put
it into cryd that'd be nice. But so we have
a micropropagation lab here at the San Diego Zoo. We
(23:39):
started it in two thousand and five, with the Association
of Zoological Horticulture five thousand dollars at the time, so
we use it for our orchid collection. So we were
able to hand pollinate orchids and then grow them on
in a micropropagation lab because in the wild they have
to have a micro rhizo fungi in order to terminate,
so you can grow them in beach to be able
(24:01):
to grow from seed. So we already had that lab established,
and then in twenty nineteen we had an intern that
was starting to take oak and try to put them
into cryod preservation. We were doing an IMOLS grant with
Cincinnati zoom Botanic Garden. They have a wonderful croyoud preservation
and micropropagation facilities there, and so we had all these
(24:22):
little babies. And then when doctor Joe Ree came, he
was able to optimize the media for quirks doumosa that's
the species he was working with.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
Yes, yes, So she brought up this container here and
I'm looking at these like the cutest little baby oak babies,
right and yeah, and you see like a little ball
of what looks like a root ball right the base.
But then I called it the goo that was my
technical for what I'm looking at right.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
So it's clear.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
It kind of looks like it might beach lightness, but
what is this exactly?
Speaker 4 (24:47):
So yeah, so it gives this It's kind of like jello,
you know, it has all the nutrients the plant needs
to grow, so jello.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Yeah, yeah, okay, all right, I'm about I like it.
I like it.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Okay, you're growing.
Speaker 4 (24:57):
Yeah, it's a growing media for the oaks. There's a
lot of different oak media that you can just buy
off the shelf, but the oaks are kind of special.
They need a special media. So that's one of the
things that doctor Joe Rees started working on right away
is trying to figure out the best media to grow
these on. So the next step after you start growing
(25:20):
them on then is either taking tiny tiny shoot tips
like the apolcal maristem, which is like one millimeter that
you're putting in in cryo preservation. And then another way
is through embryo rescue, so taking this embryo of the acorn.
And then the way that we actually have some in
cryopreservation now is semantic embryos.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
You can describe that.
Speaker 4 (25:45):
So somatic embryos are an embryo that's created by another
plant part, so it's either like a leaf base or
an internode or something like.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
That, so it's not a true seed or or where
traditionally the plant naturally has its embryos. You're creating an embryo.
Speaker 4 (26:04):
From another part, I know, special hormones and lots of
time waiting for them to produce them, and sometimes.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
A lot so they're basically, for lack of a better term,
almost like they're taking the current existing stem or leaf
or whatever cells and almost reversing them back into the
embryotic stage and then freezing.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
That Is that exactly right?
Speaker 1 (26:28):
Right? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (26:29):
Plants are so unique in that way that they have
can just kind of you know, go from being a
stem to an embryo to all.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
It's so so adaptable, right. Are they doing that with
any other species or was this work on the oaks
sort of the first time that's been done, or like,
how do you like even get to the point like, hey,
I think I can Is that done anywhere else?
Speaker 4 (26:52):
Or just oaks are there's only a handful of people
that are working in crowd preservation of oak species. So
many people that are even working in micropropagation or in
cryt preservation or other species, So you kind of take
what you've learned, you read literature that doesn't necessarily talk
about the species that you're talking about, but that you
can adapt and then try it in that species. So
(27:14):
it's all kind of trial and error right now.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
That's amazing. That's great and so important for the species
since it is limited on how we can preserve them.
What a great step for the oak trees and the
work on the specific six that we're talking about that
are so endangered. Is there anything else that we haven't
touched on yet about the oak that you think would
be important for our audience to know about.
Speaker 4 (27:33):
Yeah, just some of the other species that we're working on.
We're working on their tomintila. That one is from the
Channel Islands as well. Okay, yeah, and we're working with
the nature conservancy there and Quickes Tomintila is a.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Beautiful oak species.
Speaker 4 (27:52):
Some people might have seen them as street trees and
the area, Yeah, actually being grown as street trees now.
So we're trying to actually work with some of the
nurseries so that we can eventually get more diversity in
some of those oaks. But yeah, they're found on the
Channel Islands and then Quickest Pacifica as well, is found
on the Channel Islands and working with that species, and
then Parvula variety Parvula that's another species that's just found
(28:16):
on Santa Cruz Island, and then a small part in
Santa Barbara. So yeah, these are all endangered species or
threatened species.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
So it almost sounds like there's a parallel to the
glopocus tortoises having different species on different islands because they've
been isolated for so long. As that's kind of the case,
is I hear you talking about each casual species of
oak tree only found on this island, only found on
that island, So that's interesting. I don't think it's something
people would normally think of that that same type of
situation can happen with plants, not just animals, where because
(28:46):
they've grown on the island for thousands of years, they
are their own species, only found uniquely there, unless, of course,
humans propagate them for as you call them street trees,
the trees you see in your neighborhood or lying on
the streets.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
I love that idea, right, but what a way.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
To preserve them by yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
Survive it?
Speaker 5 (29:03):
And again I had no idea.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
There are so many oak trees and it makes me
think of even so many indigenous communities have been connected
with oaks, and in particular you know that these have
affected a human culture for so long, and it's sad
that they're disappearing, but also makes me really happy that
we have awesome people like you and the teams here
at this Handago Zoo. It's Safari Park, and of course
there's partners out there that are helping out, like it's
collective work. I was reading some of our partners in
Insenla and Mexico too, so that's wicked.
Speaker 4 (29:27):
I love that because a lot of the species they
cross over into the borderers.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Yeah, I was just going to say this boarders.
Speaker 4 (29:34):
So yeah, we're working with Mexican partners. And then the
summer two of our staff, Dario Berni and Greg Bluffin
went down there to Mexico. Oh yeah, and did a
whole trip looking at Quirkus, Cedar, Census and.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
Some of those areas.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
It's not very easy to get to. I mean I
was seeing some of those pictures.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
Yeah, you think the animal people get a lot of excitement,
but you plant people, I mean, you guys are are
getting out there.
Speaker 5 (29:57):
It's really unique areas. A collection is an amazing sample.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Oh.
Speaker 4 (30:01):
Another thing I want to mention is that working with
Quirkus inglemnii. That's one of our six party oak species.
So it's ingleman oak and that is found in East County.
It's a huge oak, has kind of bluish little leaves
and we have a little baby seiling here.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
It's funny you said that's a huge oak, because this
is no bigger.
Speaker 4 (30:22):
So why is that so important that one is used
culturally a lot collecting acorns? And we're going to be
working with the Vahas Reservation and planting back some of
those Quirkus ingle manii. So they're able to collect some
acorns and then propagate them and then those are going
to be planted back on the reservation. So we're going
to be working with San Diego Botanic Garden and the
(30:44):
Mortonar Breedom to do a planting activity with the children there.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
Oh cool, it makes it.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
Feel so good.
Speaker 5 (30:51):
Client culture people plants love it.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
That's so good.
Speaker 4 (30:55):
Yes, because a lot of the oaks that they had
there on the reservation were killed by the gold spot
of oak bore. Oh really well, and so now they're
trying to replant oaks that are more resistant to the
gold spot.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
Of oak boor.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
That's cool, good job.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
Yeah, thanks, yeah, and it's really exciting. Thank you so
much for sharing everything you have shared with us, because
it's really exciting to think that ten fifteen years ago
this kind of science would not have been able to
do what it's doing today to help preserve these species.
The awareness that brings the ability then like we're learning
from the oaks and maybe this will be something you
can apply to other species in the future as well.
So this is all just absolutely amazing. So thank you
(31:29):
so much for bringing all these little trees in for
one again. For those you obviously it's a podcast, you
can't see it. We've got six little trees here. You've
mentioned this one. I'm pointing like everyone can see we
have the oak tree. That's where quirks come from, right
quick is super Yeah, that's one little fun fact that
we got to share that people might not know. When
you pop open a corked beverage that has a true
(31:51):
wood based QRK, it is the bark of a species
of oak tree.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
That's awesome, Right, that's so cooling to human culture, right
weeks to why it works that really really great, Oh friend,
thank you so much for this.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
This is a lot of fun.
Speaker 3 (32:05):
I've learned a lot more about oaks and I really
appreciate them a lot more now, definitely when I'm cruising
around San Diego.
Speaker 4 (32:10):
You're welcome.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
Yes, thanks for joining us. Yeah, thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
Who I mean for a podcast named the Amazing Wildlife.
I'm really glad that we're including the wildlife of plants right,
not just animals.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Me too, Marko, and talking to Christy was so enlightening.
I mean, we often discuss with our guests the importance
of healthy wildlife populations, not only because it makes for
a more enriching world, but well it also maintains healthy ecosystems,
and as humans we benefit greatly from healthy habitats. And
interviewing more of a horticulture staff this year has really
been fascinating. Just listening to Christie's share with us how
(32:45):
much humans and oak trees have a shared history together
was so amazing.
Speaker 5 (32:48):
Oh, I really was.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
And to think the current science and historical and modern
cultures can come together, you know, to save these magnificent trees.
It's just like, say, the conservation of birds are mammals
amphibians and reptiles. You know, collaboration and community coming together.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
You said it, Marco. And here we are near the
end of twenty twenty four and new scientific work is
allowing for even more opportunities to have success in saving
these trees. Just a few years ago, it was only
an idea, and now it's really happening exactly.
Speaker 3 (33:19):
I mean, from idea to application seems to be the
way of a lot of scientific breakthroughs that happen in conservation.
I mean, especially when the Frozen.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
Zoo is involved.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
Oh yes, yeah. And that totally reminds me of that
quote that's posted outside of the Frozen Zoo. I think
it goes something like, you must collect things for reasons
you don't yet understand. I mean that really sets the
stage for understanding that we will learn more in the
future as we go forward. The scientific process will give
us breakthroughs that we can apply to conservation.
Speaker 3 (33:47):
And that is exactly what has happened with oak tree conservation.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
I mean, at one time it was thought.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
We'd never be able to preserve these oak trees in
the Frozen Zoo, and now we totally can.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
Kind of makes you wonder, doesn't it, Like what's next,
What breakthrough will we discuss on this podcast in a
few seasons that right now is just someone's idea.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
Oh, I know, I can't wait to find out.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
But you know what I have to say, a miego,
all of this talk about the Frozen Zoo.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
It's got me kind of thinking.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
I mean, have we really done a specific episode about.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
The Frozen Zoo?
Speaker 3 (34:16):
You know, so our audience really knows what we're talking
about when we mention it.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
You know, I don't think we have, But I like
where you're heading with us. In fact, now that you
mentioned it, twenty twenty five, right around the corner marks
the fifty year anniversary of the Frozen Zoo. Maybe we
should look into the history of it and how it
all started.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
I think that's a great idea. Well, it's decided.
Speaker 3 (34:36):
Grab your parka and mittens, we are headed to the
Frozen Zoo.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
I don't think we need our parka and missions for this,
but well, either way, regardless, be sure to subscribe and
tune into our next episode, in which we learn more
about the history of the Frozen Zoo that contains over
ten thousand living soul cultures representing nearly one thousand species.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
Al Marco Wentz and I'm Rick Schwartz.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
Thanks for listening. For more information about the San Diego
Zoo and San Diego Zoo Safari Park, go to SDZWA
dot org. Amazing Wildlife is a production of iHeartRadio. Our
supervising producers are Nikkia Swinton and Dylan Fagan, and our
sound designers are Sierra Spreen and Matt Russell. For more
(35:22):
shows from iHeartRadio, check out the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Hi, I'm rich Schwartz.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
What is the s world? I'm Marco went.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to Amazing Wildlife. Reb explore unique stories of wildlife
from around the world and uncover fascinating animal facts. This
podcast is a production of iHeartRadio's Ruby Studio and San
Diego Zoo Wildlife Alliance in international nonprofit conservation organization which
oversees the San Diego Zoo and Safari Park. Marco, I
have to admit I am really intrigued by what you
(00:29):
shared with me a few weeks back about work being
done to save the endangered oak trees. And honestly, how
fitting that our last episode featured the iconic elephant, the
largest living land mammal that helps shape ecosystems where they live.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
And now we're going to spend this episode finding out
more about the mighty oaks that, like the elephant, shape
the ecosystems they live in. And you know, beyond that,
the oak trees have their own ecosystems as well.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
But here's the thing. People see trees and other plants
around them all the time, but they tend to take
them for granted. Of course, not everyone's like that, but
I must admit, living here in San Diego County. Seeing
oak trees in our green spaces and the parks, I'm
kind of guilty of taking it for granted too. I
never realized so many species of oak are listed as endangered.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
Oh.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
I know how you feel, Rick, But you know, here's
what I found out that even with there being species
of oak trees in trouble, our horticulture team and our
scientists they've been working on finding new ways to save them,
very much like we do with a lot of our wildlife.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
And with our wildlife, we can create safe populations under
human care. We can work to eradicate invasive species and
stabilize ecosystems. Oh and of course the frozen Zoo is
so important for saving and storing genetic material to help
maintain genetic diversity for the future.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Absolutely, and you know the same goes for oak trees, Rick.
I mean, we can create safe populations, we can remove
invasive species.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
But you know, until recently, there was no way.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
To use the frozen Zoo as a way to support
oak tree conservation.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Wait what really, But isn't there this whole seed bank
thing like sort of like a frozen zoo for plans?
Speaker 4 (02:00):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (02:00):
There is, and we totally need to do an episode
about the seed bank sometime real soon. Yeah, we do, absolutely,
But for the oak and the way that the acorns are,
you know, freezing them and doing long term storage was
never an option before.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Wait wait a minute, you said never an option before.
That seems to imply that there is an option now.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
What happened? I know?
Speaker 3 (02:21):
Well, you know, I think it'd be better for us
to ask someone on the horticulture team about this, don't you.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Oh, let's see talking to a horticulturist about scientific breakthroughs
that save an iconic tree species that creates its own ecosystem.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Yes, please?
Speaker 3 (02:33):
All right, well let's do it. Let's head to the
San Diego Zoo and find out some more.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
All right, let's go.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
I am Christy Powell, horticulture manager at the San Diego Zoo.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
Good morning, by the way, this is a beautiful, like
misty morning here, yes, right.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Kind of a plant friendly morning. I got exactly the
mist and the drizzle going. You are the manager of
the horticulture department. What does that mean? What do you
do because we're here to talk about oak trees? Yeah,
and clearly you're the person that knows about this project.
What's going on, But in general, what is your day
like or what is it your job entails?
Speaker 4 (03:06):
Sure, yes, so I oversee Africa Rocks and part of
Elephant Odyssey, and then some of the nursery, greenhouse operations,
the orchid house, propagation facilities, and oversee a lot of
the conservation projects here at.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
The zoo, And so our audience knows. So you're mentioning
areas that they might recognize as animal areas Elephant Odyssey
after Rocks, and they go there to see the animals.
But one thing we learned is that the Horticulture department
does so much to bring in the native species of
plants for those regions that they represent. So you're overseeing
(03:40):
all of that diversity of plant life across those areas
of the zoo, including the propagation area that you mentioned.
And then what we're here to talk about our conservation stuff, right, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Okay, it's actually one of my favorite areas.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
I gotta say, Africa Rocks and plants there are breathtaking,
So really nice toof with that. And yeah, to Rick's point,
it's a good reminder for our guests as a cruiseenter
around the San Diego Zoo they might see it hand up,
but some of the projects that are around them from
growing our own food for our wildlife. But to Rick's point,
there's a lot of science behind some of the things
that we do.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
And in particular this species.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
You know, being a native San Diegan, every time like
I go somewhere else and I come back when I
see like a California oak, it really feels like I'm
definitely back home. And I never really thought about it,
you know, until this interview. You're like, well, what makes
an oak an oak? Like, what separates it from other
trees out there?
Speaker 4 (04:22):
Well, most people are familiar with oaks having acorns. They
think of large trees native to the Midwest or you
know those regions where there's really large trees. In California,
we have some large trees. A lot of people are
familiar with the coast live oaks in San Diego County,
but we have a great diversity of oaks in San
(04:43):
Diego County. It's actually the highest in California as far
as the species diversity. So we're working with a lot
of those different species in San Diego County.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Oh wow, that's wild.
Speaker 5 (04:53):
I didn't know that of all the California.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
It kind of makes sense, so I've heard, you know,
I think we've mentioned it last season. San Diego County
is known being the most diverse county in the nation
when it comes to wildlife, so it makes sense that
it's reflected in the oaks as well. Can you share
with our audience why San Diego County has the most
diversity of oak trees.
Speaker 4 (05:12):
Yeah, so just our region that we're in. We have
all the way from the coast to the inland habitats,
all the way to the mountains and the desert. So
there's just such a diverse landscape in San Diego County.
And some of the species that we work with are
right near the coast, So like quirkes, Dumosa, the nettles
(05:33):
scrub oak, that one is right near the coast.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
And that's what I love about San Diego County. You
mentioned it. We have desert, mountains, beach, coast, all that
inland areas. I think people, especially if they're coming to
visit San Diego, they don't realize just how much is
going on when it comes to different ecosystems and how
you can forty minute drive being a completely different ecosos
I know, you were forty minutes ago, and that's reflected
in our oaks here, and that's what we really want
(05:57):
to talk about. We came across an article written in
house by one of our writers that publicized and even
though we're a part of this organization, we were like, whoa,
this is really happening. A lot of people think the
mighty oak, the oak is strong, the acorns that gives life,
there's so much there. They're fine, right, But the reality
is they're not. There's a lot of challenges the mighty
(06:18):
oak is facing, along with many other things out there.
And Mark, when I talk about panda conservation or koalas
or all the other species out there, not too often
do you hear about or think about the oak. So
maybe paint the picture for our audience, what is going
on with the oak treason? Why is the work that
you're a part of so important? Yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:36):
So, there's about four hundred and fifty species worldwide of oaks,
So there are diverse species. They're found in a wide
range of habitats. They're mostly in the northern hemisphere, and
they perform critical ecosystem functions in our world. We have
about ninety one different species in the US, and they
are threatened with extinction the mortinarbreedam and others with the
(06:57):
IUCN Red List. They did a survey about the Red
List of the oaks and they found that a third
work threatened with extinction and about a fifth in the US.
So we need to work together to help save our
oak species.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Yeah, so I was going to ask, I'm imagining it
maybe droughts or heavy floods.
Speaker 5 (07:17):
Is wildlife trafficking an issue for some oaks?
Speaker 4 (07:19):
Not really for No, it's mostly habitat destruction, So a
lot of the species live in areas where their habitat
is destroyed, and then also change in fire regime pass
due to a lot of climate change issues as well.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
Yeah, and they're so essential. I mean in this article
you were referencing rick by Alion. By the way, it's
on San Dieg Zoo Wild Left the Lions dot org
paid slash story Hubs, so definitely check it out. It's
a wicked article. But with that, I didn't know oaks
they absorbed so much more carbon than other trees around
the world too, I was reading, So the necessity of
these trees is so important for us, right, not only
locally but to your point four and different fifty species
(07:56):
of oaks worldwide.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
That's that's crazy.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
And keystone species, so they provide habitat for thousands of
different species, even like I think nine different species.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
Right there was butterfly and moths living in these things.
The diversity of life and those is incredible, right right.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Well, yeah, you know, we talk about the individual or
just the species of oak is endangered, and I often
can see on people's phases when we're doing like public
talks and say, okay, well it's a tree, we'll be fine.
But that's where it's important. You mentioned that keystone species.
We've talked about that before in this podcast with pandas
and other species as well, that when you work to
(08:37):
save that one, you're actually working to save so much more.
And when we talk about trees, I really believe it's
not common knowledge enough that there are so many species
that live within the ecosystem of a single tree, whether
it's the butterflies and moths and other bugs and insects.
They offer food for birds, The birds offer to be
food for others, and then the roots can be homes
(08:58):
for burrowing subtest animals or even fox that have that area,
or badgers whatever, who's nesting in the tree. I mean,
the list goes on and on about what a single
tree can offer in its ecosystem. And then right in
front of us you brought in a wide variety of
small species, and small in the sense that their babies
compared to what they will grow to be. And also
a plate then of different acorns from oak trees, which
(09:20):
again offers so much life for species that live in
and around the area of oak trees. So the idea
that we are losing oak trees to the point where
there are red listed or critically endangered is alarming, and
I appreciate that you brought up the fact that a
lot of it's lost to habitat destruction, wildfires, climate change,
insects and all of that. It's really important thing for
(09:41):
people to understand the quick rapid changes that are occurring
in these ecosystems. The oak trees never evolved for these
things that are coming up, and we see that across
the board with many species. Can you talk a little
bit about some of the efforts that were initially in
place for preserving oak trees, and then we'll get into
what we have currently started doing too.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
So we're part of the Global Conservation Consortium for Oak.
So we joined that group in twenty twenty. And what
that is is a concerted effort led by the Morton
Arboretum and Botannic Garden Conservation International BGCI, and it's an
international effort to save oak species. So we realize that
you can't save them by yourself, so you need to
(10:23):
have a coordinated effort and it's focused a lot on
what botanna gardens and arburita. We're a credit botannic garden
here at the San Diego SOO Wildlife Alliance and also
Level four Arboretum. Now we just we're able to have
that designation as well.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Correct, excellent, wonderful.
Speaker 4 (10:40):
So we're working together with other botannic gardens, other arbreta institutions,
universities to have an effort to save these oak species.
So our work is with six priority oak species in
Southern California, Baja California and the Channel Islands.
Speaker 5 (10:55):
Are these the ones you have out in forests right now? Yes?
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Oh, you guys don't know, but she brought up these
wonderful examples of are these six species referring here right?
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Wow?
Speaker 2 (11:04):
They look incredible.
Speaker 4 (11:04):
Yeah, And since we just started in twenty twenty. Ours
are all babies right now, so they're in little tree
pots about two years old, some of them three years old.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
How long does it take for an oak tree to mature?
Because I think that might boggin some people's Yeah, right,
how long? Yes?
Speaker 4 (11:21):
So oak trees are long lived species, so they can
live hundreds and hundreds of years, and they don't produce
acorns right away, so it can take a number of
years even to produce acorns.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Wow, is production of acorns in where the tree is
considered matured at that point? You know they can live
for hundreds of.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
Years, right, Yeah, they're mature when they start producing acorns.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
Pretty unique seed too, I guess. I mean I'm looking
at your play right now. I want to get the
sounds here on the micro fact really really cool. Well,
it makes an acorns so unique. I mean it's a
pretty cool looking seed for one, but I know there's
a lot of reasons why it has this shape. Right,
we can all picture oak seed and if not googlely
kids on your phone you can totally chuck out the
image of what it looks like.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Yeah, just describe to me an oak seed looks like.
Speaker 4 (11:58):
Yes, So acorns are kind of uniqu most people recognize them.
They have a point to them, and then a cap
on the tip, and the cap and also the acorn
can help distinguish what kind of oak species it is,
so you can tell the acorn cap if it has
bumpy or if it's scaly, different things like that. The
(12:19):
inside of the cap as well, and then even the
shape of the acorn, and some have striations on them.
So these particular ones that I brought today are Chrysolepis,
so it's an inland species oak. Why we harvested those,
they're not one of our priority oak species. But what
we want to do is grow those acorns and then
(12:39):
since it's the same family and also the same section
of oak or golden oak as the Quercus cedrosensus, we're
hoping to grow those seedlings and graft on the top
of the Quercus cedrosensus so we can be able to
propagate it because it's not producing acorns very well.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Oh yeah, so I have to ask real quick for
our audience, what do you mean by grafting on? I
know what that is, but basically you just said you're
going to grow these acorns that are not a part
of a species that's endangered to then use that sprout
or that growth to graft on a different species that
is endangered, right, correct, So what does that mean? Y?
Speaker 4 (13:19):
So, my thought before being a manager was a plant propagator.
So as a plant propagator here Atagoz you for thirteen
years before management. So when you graph something, it's pretty
much like when you think of your fruit trees that
you have at your house. So most of your fruit
trees are grafted, so those have a rootstock and they're
resistant to different diseases and things like that. And then
(13:40):
you can take a scion or wood or like a
sprout of another one and then you grow that on
top of it, and it makes it so that your
apples or whatever you're growing are consistent so they have
the same exact genetic Because you want to production agriculture,
you want things to be uniform and taste the same,
which in here we're looking for more biodiversity and genetic
(14:04):
diversity in species.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
So essentially what you're doing is you're allowing this acorn
to sprout, create a root system that can survive better
in whatever soil and or be disease resistant for what
the endangered species may not have a root system for.
Speaker 4 (14:23):
Not in this case. Okay, so yeah, let me back up.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
I'm super curious because basically what you're doing is you're
taking two different species and not really mending them together.
They naturally grow together and then the roots feed the
stock of the other species. But I want to get
to why we're doing that with the.
Speaker 4 (14:42):
Open right, Yeah? Correct, So they actually fuse together over time.
So you put the cambium layers together and then they
actually confuse over time, so it's pretty neat.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
The cambium layers are the inner bark, right, that's the
inner bark layers, so they match up.
Speaker 4 (14:56):
That goes through right, So.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Essentially it's almost like the trees and says, oh, I've
been wounded. I want to heal that. So that then
grafts them together. They fuse together on their own. That way,
the root system feeds. But what's producing acorns and what's
on top is the true species, even though it's roots
are from a different species, just giving the nutrients up
that way. Okay, so why are we doing that with oak?
Speaker 4 (15:18):
So quirk is Cedar's census. The Cedars Island oak is
only found in a small population on the O Tai Mountain.
So we've been working with San Diego Botanna Garden and
our Plant Conservation Group and Sandy Botanic Garden was able
to collect some make corns in twenty twenty one. So
we have one of those individuals here today.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
This guy.
Speaker 5 (15:36):
Yeah cool, he's a little extra speky.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Than the others.
Speaker 4 (15:39):
Yeah. When they're little, they're more spiky, and then when
they get bigger they have more entirely march.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Yeah. Is it kind of like a defense mechanism probably, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (15:48):
Yeah, for a lot of them. We go down to
o Ti Mountain our staff with other partners with Sandy
Botanic Garden, and we just actually took the International Oak
Society down there as well with on a tour.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
That's great.
Speaker 4 (16:00):
It's a small area on Bureau of Land Management and
there's quite a few trees down there, but it's the
only place in the United States that has quirke as
cedar cedar silent oak. Otherwise it's in Baja California, and
then also a population in Cedros Island.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
That's great.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
You mentioned there's several ways to try to preserve these
species of oaks, but there's something with the seed, right,
There's different processes and how do we preserve this thing
as opposed to another.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Okay, hold on, hold on, I keep looking at the
I want to know your question is important and we're
coming up next tor. I want her why are we
doing the grafting with oak?
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Answer?
Speaker 4 (16:37):
Yeah, So when we've been observing these oaks over the
last years, they haven't been producing acorns, or they've been
producing acorns, and then we go back later to collect
them and they're all gone. So we've been trying different
methods of being able to have them in exitute collections
without having acorns. So you know, if other species you
try to do asexual propagation, which is propagation from cuttings
(17:02):
or air layers things like that, so that's what we're
kind of trying to do now. So we actually were
able to put some air layers on, which I'm sure
you're going to ask what air layer?
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (17:14):
So air layering is another process that you can use
to propagate a species when you'd want to have the
same exact species and you don't have acorns or something
like that. So in this case, what we do is
we take a branch of the oak, and we take
off the bark, we expose the cambium layer, and then
we put sphagnum moss or some kind of material in
(17:36):
there around it, and then we close it with a
plastic bag and then put aluminum foil over top of
it and keep it moist. And we were able to
harvest our first one about eighteen months after it was
put on and started.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
So what happens inside that plastic bag, in that wrapping
after you've moved the bark? What happens in there that
you're yeah.
Speaker 4 (17:53):
So actually produces roots? Okay, yeah, yeah, so since you
kind of disturbed the bark. Plants are pretty cool that way.
You can disturb it and you can cause a stem
tissue actually become a root tissue.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Wow. Yeah, and so then you can harvest that often.
Now you have the standalone stem and you have the
original tree in which you came from. That's so cool.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (18:14):
And we actually had one planet an elephant honesty now too,
one of our little babies that we took as an
air layer.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Yeah, we gotta check it out now.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Yeah, So all these different ways we have to create
a new tree, either whether the suit grafting so we
can have a better system for it to get some acorns,
or to do the air layering. Yeah, and now Marko
your question with the acorns, what is it that we're
doing with the acorns to help not let these species
go extinct?
Speaker 4 (18:38):
Right? Yeah, So since sometimes we don't have acorns available,
we're trying these other methods, and so we would also
try the grafting where you would take pieces from the
wild and then put them onto new little seedlings that
hopefully then you can have a whole new tree from that. Right. So,
oaks are exceptional species, which means that there are acorns.
(18:59):
They can't be banked in a seed bank, so they
can't be dried down, they can't be frozen. So that's
what we rely on a lot for conservation of plant species.
We have a great seed bank at the Beckman Center
where the plant conservation staff are going in San Diego
County and collecting seeds of threatened plant species in our
(19:21):
county and banking them in a seed bank. But oaks
are unique in that way that they're seeds are acorns.
They can't be frozen and banked, so we have to
look at other ways to preserve species.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Different ways. Why can't they Why can so many species
of plants? We can do the deep freeze and the
frozen zoo version or the seed banking. But the acorn can't.
Why is that?
Speaker 4 (19:43):
Yeah, so you can imagine acorn is pretty large and
when you dry it down you actually kill the embryo.
Oh yeah, and if you freeze it. You know, some
of them can be frozen when they are in areas
where they're used to the cold and be fine. But yeah,
when you dry it down, it kills the embryo inside exceptionally.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
That's the words to you, right, And that's again it
goes back to then understanding what these trees are used to,
what environments they have evolved for, and now the rapid
changes that are occurring. We jump in, we want to
do seed banking, and yet it looks like our only
options are going to be to just try and propagate
more and keep those somewhere safe. Those living trees no
(20:24):
opportunity to keep them in a frozen area or a
seed bank area like so many other species. So we
might have these groves of new baby oak trees that
we've saved, but wildfire comes through or disease comes through,
and that safe population as we call it in our
conservation world, or that population that that grove that was
supposed to be the next generation to prevent them from
going extinct is now gone. So what has been figured
(20:48):
out that we can still safeguard these species?
Speaker 4 (20:51):
Yeah, so one way is through living collections, so growing
them from acorns or cuttings or however we're doing it,
and then growing in the botanic gardens and sharing those
with other botannic gardens around the world, because we've found
out there's not enough room in any one botanic garden,
and we shouldn't be growing every individual and every species
(21:13):
in one botanic garden because if something happens, then they're
not backed up. So the idea is a meta collection,
So it's a group of coordinated efforts of many different
groups working together to save different such as these oak species.
So we would have some here in San Diego, would
have a conservation grove, would send them to another botanic
garden they would have some there. So we're trying to
(21:36):
get together that coordinated effort to share collections with different
botanic gardens.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
That's really great and I love the collaboration of it.
You think all these projects, you know, like Panda, obviously
all of it recurred to me too. I mean it's
obvious when you really think about it. But you know,
people go to the zoo or the Safari Park. I
love the world gardens at the Safari Park. And you know,
being botanical gardens that we all are, people often forget
the conservation aspects of all that there's necessity for these
areas for us to grow these really essential species of plants.
(22:04):
Where to your point, if you just grow in one
little spot, you know won't be the best outcome or
plan really to protect these species, right, So kudis for that,
So bring on the guests it comes to these botanical
gardens honestly because of this is just amazing work.
Speaker 4 (22:16):
Thank you. Yeah, And we keep track of all of
our individuals too, that we collect from each individual mother tree.
We have all the proper permits and everything to do
with the collections, and then we keep track of them in
our Plant record database system. So you see that each
of these have an accession tag, so it's like a
lit license plate for each individual's plant. And then when
we can look up that number, we can see where
(22:36):
the GPS coordinates where that we collected that individual from,
what mother tree it came from. Yeah, So then if
something happens from the wild, will know what population to
return them to if we need to in the future.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Yeah, that's amazing, right.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
I mean we talk about the Frozen Zoo in the past,
you know, collecting animal DNA our genetics. But this is
just an exciting for me too that we have areas
to preserve a lot of wonderful species of plants.
Speaker 4 (22:58):
Yeah, and since you mentioned the frozen Zoo, Yeah, that's
another way that we can preserve oak's long term is
through cryopreservation.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Oh really, yes, can you describe that for yeah, exmand
on that because that's one thing we can't do with
the acorns bankings. But there's been a new twist to
cryogenically freezing oaks, so yeah, tell us about that, right.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
Yeah. We had a post doctoral associate, doctor Joe Ree
that was here for three years and he worked on
the first step of cryopreservation is actually getting something you
have to work with to put into cryodpreservation. So you
can't just take something straight from the wild and put
it into cryd that'd be nice. But so we have
a micropropagation lab here at the San Diego Zoo. We
(23:39):
started it in two thousand and five, with the Association
of Zoological Horticulture five thousand dollars at the time, so
we use it for our orchid collection. So we were
able to hand pollinate orchids and then grow them on
in a micropropagation lab because in the wild they have
to have a micro rhizo fungi in order to terminate,
so you can grow them in beach to be able
(24:01):
to grow from seed. So we already had that lab established,
and then in twenty nineteen we had an intern that
was starting to take oak and try to put them
into cryod preservation. We were doing an IMOLS grant with
Cincinnati zoom Botanic Garden. They have a wonderful croyoud preservation
and micropropagation facilities there, and so we had all these
(24:22):
little babies. And then when doctor Joe Ree came, he
was able to optimize the media for quirks doumosa that's
the species he was working with.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
Yes, yes, So she brought up this container here and
I'm looking at these like the cutest little baby oak babies,
right and yeah, and you see like a little ball
of what looks like a root ball right the base.
But then I called it the goo that was my
technical for what I'm looking at right.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
So it's clear.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
It kind of looks like it might beach lightness, but
what is this exactly?
Speaker 4 (24:47):
So yeah, so it gives this It's kind of like jello,
you know, it has all the nutrients the plant needs
to grow, so jello.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Yeah, yeah, okay, all right, I'm about I like it.
I like it.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Okay, you're growing.
Speaker 4 (24:57):
Yeah, it's a growing media for the oaks. There's a
lot of different oak media that you can just buy
off the shelf, but the oaks are kind of special.
They need a special media. So that's one of the
things that doctor Joe Rees started working on right away
is trying to figure out the best media to grow
these on. So the next step after you start growing
(25:20):
them on then is either taking tiny tiny shoot tips
like the apolcal maristem, which is like one millimeter that
you're putting in in cryo preservation. And then another way
is through embryo rescue, so taking this embryo of the acorn.
And then the way that we actually have some in
cryopreservation now is semantic embryos.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
You can describe that.
Speaker 4 (25:45):
So somatic embryos are an embryo that's created by another
plant part, so it's either like a leaf base or
an internode or something like.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
That, so it's not a true seed or or where
traditionally the plant naturally has its embryos. You're creating an embryo.
Speaker 4 (26:04):
From another part, I know, special hormones and lots of
time waiting for them to produce them, and sometimes.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
A lot so they're basically, for lack of a better term,
almost like they're taking the current existing stem or leaf
or whatever cells and almost reversing them back into the
embryotic stage and then freezing.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
That Is that exactly right?
Speaker 1 (26:28):
Right? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (26:29):
Plants are so unique in that way that they have
can just kind of you know, go from being a
stem to an embryo to all.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
It's so so adaptable, right. Are they doing that with
any other species or was this work on the oaks
sort of the first time that's been done, or like,
how do you like even get to the point like, hey,
I think I can Is that done anywhere else?
Speaker 4 (26:52):
Or just oaks are there's only a handful of people
that are working in crowd preservation of oak species. So
many people that are even working in micropropagation or in
cryt preservation or other species, So you kind of take
what you've learned, you read literature that doesn't necessarily talk
about the species that you're talking about, but that you
can adapt and then try it in that species. So
(27:14):
it's all kind of trial and error right now.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
That's amazing. That's great and so important for the species
since it is limited on how we can preserve them.
What a great step for the oak trees and the
work on the specific six that we're talking about that
are so endangered. Is there anything else that we haven't
touched on yet about the oak that you think would
be important for our audience to know about.
Speaker 4 (27:33):
Yeah, just some of the other species that we're working on.
We're working on their tomintila. That one is from the
Channel Islands as well. Okay, yeah, and we're working with
the nature conservancy there and Quickes Tomintila is a.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Beautiful oak species.
Speaker 4 (27:52):
Some people might have seen them as street trees and
the area, Yeah, actually being grown as street trees now.
So we're trying to actually work with some of the
nurseries so that we can eventually get more diversity in
some of those oaks. But yeah, they're found on the
Channel Islands and then Quickest Pacifica as well, is found
on the Channel Islands and working with that species, and
then Parvula variety Parvula that's another species that's just found
(28:16):
on Santa Cruz Island, and then a small part in
Santa Barbara. So yeah, these are all endangered species or
threatened species.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
So it almost sounds like there's a parallel to the
glopocus tortoises having different species on different islands because they've
been isolated for so long. As that's kind of the case,
is I hear you talking about each casual species of
oak tree only found on this island, only found on
that island, So that's interesting. I don't think it's something
people would normally think of that that same type of
situation can happen with plants, not just animals, where because
(28:46):
they've grown on the island for thousands of years, they
are their own species, only found uniquely there, unless, of course,
humans propagate them for as you call them street trees,
the trees you see in your neighborhood or lying on
the streets.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
I love that idea, right, but what a way.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
To preserve them by yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
Survive it?
Speaker 5 (29:03):
And again I had no idea.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
There are so many oak trees and it makes me
think of even so many indigenous communities have been connected
with oaks, and in particular you know that these have
affected a human culture for so long, and it's sad
that they're disappearing, but also makes me really happy that
we have awesome people like you and the teams here
at this Handago Zoo. It's Safari Park, and of course
there's partners out there that are helping out, like it's
collective work. I was reading some of our partners in
Insenla and Mexico too, so that's wicked.
Speaker 4 (29:27):
I love that because a lot of the species they
cross over into the borderers.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Yeah, I was just going to say this boarders.
Speaker 4 (29:34):
So yeah, we're working with Mexican partners. And then the
summer two of our staff, Dario Berni and Greg Bluffin
went down there to Mexico. Oh yeah, and did a
whole trip looking at Quirkus, Cedar, Census and.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
Some of those areas.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
It's not very easy to get to. I mean I
was seeing some of those pictures.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
Yeah, you think the animal people get a lot of excitement,
but you plant people, I mean, you guys are are
getting out there.
Speaker 5 (29:57):
It's really unique areas. A collection is an amazing sample.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Oh.
Speaker 4 (30:01):
Another thing I want to mention is that working with
Quirkus inglemnii. That's one of our six party oak species.
So it's ingleman oak and that is found in East County.
It's a huge oak, has kind of bluish little leaves
and we have a little baby seiling here.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
It's funny you said that's a huge oak, because this
is no bigger.
Speaker 4 (30:22):
So why is that so important that one is used
culturally a lot collecting acorns? And we're going to be
working with the Vahas Reservation and planting back some of
those Quirkus ingle manii. So they're able to collect some
acorns and then propagate them and then those are going
to be planted back on the reservation. So we're going
to be working with San Diego Botanic Garden and the
(30:44):
Mortonar Breedom to do a planting activity with the children there.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
Oh cool, it makes it.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
Feel so good.
Speaker 5 (30:51):
Client culture people plants love it.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
That's so good.
Speaker 4 (30:55):
Yes, because a lot of the oaks that they had
there on the reservation were killed by the gold spot
of oak bore. Oh really well, and so now they're
trying to replant oaks that are more resistant to the
gold spot.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
Of oak boor.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
That's cool, good job.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
Yeah, thanks, yeah, and it's really exciting. Thank you so
much for sharing everything you have shared with us, because
it's really exciting to think that ten fifteen years ago
this kind of science would not have been able to
do what it's doing today to help preserve these species.
The awareness that brings the ability then like we're learning
from the oaks and maybe this will be something you
can apply to other species in the future as well.
So this is all just absolutely amazing. So thank you
(31:29):
so much for bringing all these little trees in for
one again. For those you obviously it's a podcast, you
can't see it. We've got six little trees here. You've
mentioned this one. I'm pointing like everyone can see we
have the oak tree. That's where quirks come from, right
quick is super Yeah, that's one little fun fact that
we got to share that people might not know. When
you pop open a corked beverage that has a true
(31:51):
wood based QRK, it is the bark of a species
of oak tree.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
That's awesome, Right, that's so cooling to human culture, right
weeks to why it works that really really great, Oh friend,
thank you so much for this.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
This is a lot of fun.
Speaker 3 (32:05):
I've learned a lot more about oaks and I really
appreciate them a lot more now, definitely when I'm cruising
around San Diego.
Speaker 4 (32:10):
You're welcome.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
Yes, thanks for joining us. Yeah, thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
Who I mean for a podcast named the Amazing Wildlife.
I'm really glad that we're including the wildlife of plants right,
not just animals.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Me too, Marko, and talking to Christy was so enlightening.
I mean, we often discuss with our guests the importance
of healthy wildlife populations, not only because it makes for
a more enriching world, but well it also maintains healthy ecosystems,
and as humans we benefit greatly from healthy habitats. And
interviewing more of a horticulture staff this year has really
been fascinating. Just listening to Christie's share with us how
(32:45):
much humans and oak trees have a shared history together
was so amazing.
Speaker 5 (32:48):
Oh, I really was.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
And to think the current science and historical and modern
cultures can come together, you know, to save these magnificent trees.
It's just like, say, the conservation of birds are mammals
amphibians and reptiles. You know, collaboration and community coming together.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
You said it, Marco. And here we are near the
end of twenty twenty four and new scientific work is
allowing for even more opportunities to have success in saving
these trees. Just a few years ago, it was only
an idea, and now it's really happening exactly.
Speaker 3 (33:19):
I mean, from idea to application seems to be the
way of a lot of scientific breakthroughs that happen in conservation.
I mean, especially when the Frozen.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
Zoo is involved.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
Oh yes, yeah. And that totally reminds me of that
quote that's posted outside of the Frozen Zoo. I think
it goes something like, you must collect things for reasons
you don't yet understand. I mean that really sets the
stage for understanding that we will learn more in the
future as we go forward. The scientific process will give
us breakthroughs that we can apply to conservation.
Speaker 3 (33:47):
And that is exactly what has happened with oak tree conservation.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
I mean, at one time it was thought.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
We'd never be able to preserve these oak trees in
the Frozen Zoo, and now we totally can.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
Kind of makes you wonder, doesn't it, Like what's next,
What breakthrough will we discuss on this podcast in a
few seasons that right now is just someone's idea.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
Oh, I know, I can't wait to find out.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
But you know what I have to say, a miego,
all of this talk about the Frozen Zoo.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
It's got me kind of thinking.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
I mean, have we really done a specific episode about.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
The Frozen Zoo?
Speaker 3 (34:16):
You know, so our audience really knows what we're talking
about when we mention it.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
You know, I don't think we have, But I like
where you're heading with us. In fact, now that you
mentioned it, twenty twenty five, right around the corner marks
the fifty year anniversary of the Frozen Zoo. Maybe we
should look into the history of it and how it
all started.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
I think that's a great idea. Well, it's decided.
Speaker 3 (34:36):
Grab your parka and mittens, we are headed to the
Frozen Zoo.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
I don't think we need our parka and missions for this,
but well, either way, regardless, be sure to subscribe and
tune into our next episode, in which we learn more
about the history of the Frozen Zoo that contains over
ten thousand living soul cultures representing nearly one thousand species.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
Al Marco Wentz and I'm Rick Schwartz.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
Thanks for listening. For more information about the San Diego
Zoo and San Diego Zoo Safari Park, go to SDZWA
dot org. Amazing Wildlife is a production of iHeartRadio. Our
supervising producers are Nikkia Swinton and Dylan Fagan, and our
sound designers are Sierra Spreen and Matt Russell. For more
(35:22):
shows from iHeartRadio, check out the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Hosts And Creators
Rick Schwartz
Marco Wendt
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