November 18, 2022 • 27 mins
Amazing Wildlife is spotlighting China’s national treasure that is beloved all over the world… the giant panda! Hosts Rick and Ebone explore the theory of how this immediately recognizable animal got is black and white coloration, what is included in its diet in addition to bamboo, as well as their distinctive vocalizations. Later, the Alliance’s director of conservation science, Ron Swaisgood, Ph.D., joins the show to explain the giant panda’s conservation journey from near extinction, and San Diego Zoo Wildlife Alliance’s 30-year contribution to collaborative panda conservation efforts.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hi, I'm Rich Swartz and I'm Abdy Money. Welcome to
Amazing Wildlife, where we explore unique stories of wildlife from
around the world and uncovered fascinating animal facts. This podcast
is a production of I Heart Radio in San Diego
Zoo Wildlife Alliance, in international nonprofit conservation organization behind the
San Diego Zoo and Safari Park. They're black and white
(00:26):
and loved all over. This episode's animal is an international
treasure protected by law. The giant panda is affectionately known
as a cat bear in its native China. Illustrations of
the giant panda can be found in Chinese art dating
back thousands of years. Giant pandas have also fascinated people
(00:47):
living outside of China, first described for science by a
French missionary in eighteen sixty nine, Rick, what do you
think it is about the panda that captures so many
people those hearts and attention? Oh, honestly, Ebany, I have
to say, there's something about the way they look and
the way they move and the way they eat. It
(01:08):
just seems so relatable. I will completely admit when I
started at the San Diego Zoo over twenty years ago,
I had never seen a giant panda in person, and
I knew they were popular and thought, like all bears,
they were pretty interesting. But I can still remember the
first day I saw in a person, and I will
I will fully admit I was completely enamored. I sat
there outside of the habitat and just watched for I
(01:29):
don't even know how long. And I can't say exactly
what it is about them, but yes, they are easy
to fall in love with. Yes, and so many people
I'm sure can relate. Well, it's in the name. But
are giant panda bears actually bears? Ah? Yes, Ebani the
puzzle of the panda bear? What are they related to?
(01:50):
I can say? For years, scientists have been debating about this.
Some thought that the giant panda was a true bear
with special adaptations for living in the bamboo forest, while
others thought they were more closely related to the raccoon family,
while others believe they belong in their completely own, separate
scientific family. Now, through studying the genetic code or the
(02:11):
giant panta's DNA, scientists have confirmed that the giant pantas
are related to bears. And even though we knew that
giant pandas are similar to other bears in their general looks,
the way they walk and climb, their skull characteristics, their
social system, and reproductive biology. Having the ability to confirm
they are a bear through the DNA puts the long
(02:32):
debate to rest. Are they also solitary like other bears
we've discussed, yes, ebony Like other bears, Giant pandas are
solitary by nature, and they will defend their territory when needed.
Because pantas need twenty five to eighty pounds of bamboo
a day, depending upon the individual's needs, it only makes
sense that having another panda around eating the bamboo is
(02:53):
not something you'd enjoy. If two pandas should happen across paths,
they will growl, swat, and lunge at each other in
an effort to defend their territory. It rarely escalates into
a full blown fight, but it can, and giant pantas
can deliver a very powerful bite, which can be dangerous.
And although we just established that giant pantas are solitary
and don't like having other pantas around, there are of
(03:16):
course two exceptions to this. First, the very brief mating
season and I mean brief we're talking a couple of
days here, and second, when a mother has a cub rick.
That leads nicely to my next questions about mating. You
mentioned that pandas will tolerate each other during mating season,
but if they spend so much of their time apart,
(03:38):
how do they pair up in the first place. Although
pantas are solitary as adults, they are exposed to the
sense of other neighboring pandas that have crossed over their
path days or weeks before. If a female's body is
getting ready for breeding, she will start to use scent
marking to let the neighboring males know. If a mail
comes across her a cent a few days later, he
(03:59):
can pick up on the change in her status, going
from the stay in your own territory buddy, to hey,
let's connect sometime soon. Once the male has identified this
change in the female status, he remains closer to this female,
assessing her status more frequently and keeping closer tabs on
her so he can be present when she's ready to breathe.
And this is important as there is only a two
(04:20):
to three day period that the female is receptive to breeding.
When she's no longer receptive, the two pandas move on
with their solitary lives. It's fascinating that the pandas can
determine all of that just from their sense of smell.
Pandas are arguably the most vocal of all bears. One
of the most distinctive of the panda's vocalization, I understand,
(04:43):
is referred to as the bleat, which is described as
similar to the sound a lamb or a goat kid
might make. It's considered a greeting Rick, can you describe
some of the other sounds that pandas might make. I'm
glad you said, dis I thought you're gonna ask me
to do a bleed sound and that want to be bad,
(05:03):
but yes. Oddly enough, the seemingly quiet giant panda is
the most vocal of all the bears. And as much
as we tend to equate roaring with bears, they don't
actually do as much as the movies and television would
kind of have us believe. And in the case of
the giant panda, their main vocalization includes honks, huffs, barks,
and growls along with a goat like bleat that you mentioned.
(05:27):
Young cubs are even known to croak and squeal rather
loudly to get their mom's attention, and of course, being solitary,
the giant panda uses other ways to communicate because vocalizations
only travel so far in the bamboo forest, and both
males and females have a scent pland under their short
tail that secretes a waxy substance used to leave scent marks.
(05:48):
The analogy of this, of course, is it's kind of
like leaving a post it note for other pandas to
find the scent marking. Post it notes can tell other
pandas to stay away like we mentioned, or might be
ready for breeding, and if they're a threat or not,
or just passing through things like that. Now many of
us are familiar with the act of animals leaving their
sense or are marking their territory as it's called. I
(06:10):
immediately think of our own families puppy who when we walk,
he doesn't pass a tree without leaving behind something. But
in the case of the giant panda, um, I guess
along with meeting, how does the scenting leave behind communicate
so many different messages to other pandas well? Ebony, When
giant pandas sent marked trees, rocks, bamboo, and bushes. Our
(06:33):
nose can pick up on the smell from about a
foot away, and we usually consider it kind of stinky.
But giant pandas have a much stronger sense of smell
and it's able to pick up on a lot more
information than you and I can. The San Diego Zoo
Wildlfe Alliance has done a lot of work with giant pandas,
and we've discovered the giant pantas can detect the sex, age,
reproductive condition, social status, and even individual identity of the
(06:56):
scent maker, as well as how long the scent has
been there. Giant pandas are only about the size of
a stick of butter at birth, and they're hairless and helpless.
Rick What does it take for them to survive and
what's the role if any of the male pandas or
(07:16):
the female adult pandas. Like many other solitary species, the
male panda does not help raise the cubs. In fact,
the female does not want them around. After breeding, the
mother giant panta takes care of the tiny cub, usually
cradling it in one paw and then holding it close
to her chest for several days after birth, the mother
does not leave the den, not even to eat or drink. Then,
(07:38):
as the cub develops and grows, it will open its
eyes around fifty to sixty days of age, and by
ten of weeks the cub begins to crawl and move around,
and around fourteen weeks of age, their teeth start to
come in and the mother and cubs spend less time
in their den. By twenty one weeks, the cub is
able to walk pretty well, and at that time it
will start to play with its mom and even wander
(07:58):
further from the mother to explore. At seven to nine
months of age, it starts testing out bamboo, first mouthing
and chewing and playing with it, and then eventually eating it.
And then while around six twenty months of age, we
see the mother panda sending her offspring out on its
own so she can prepare to have her next cup. Today,
pandas have fewer predators than they have historically. Unfortunately, tigers
(08:22):
and leopards are only found in reduced numbers and what
remains of their natural habitat. Still, it's estimated that there
are just over eight hundred giant pandas left in the world.
Rick what are the panda's present day threats to its survival.
Unfortunately for panda's, China's forests have experienced dramatic change over
(08:44):
the last several decades. The country has more than a
billion people, and just like in the United States, with
more people have come more roads, homes, cities, and farms.
Natural resources are needed to support all of this growth,
so there is mining and harvesting of trees in what
is considered a giant panda habitat. The giant panda's range
(09:05):
shrunk as trees were removed and logging operations and land
was cleared for farming. In fact, panda suitable habitat decreased
by half between nineteen seventy four. Populations of pandas have
become small and isolated, hemmed in by civilization, and some
panda habitat has literally been encircled by farms, villages, and
(09:26):
business sites, creating sort of these habitat islands between which
pandas can't safely move without coming upon human communities or
crossing dangerous highways. And fragmented populations like this aren't just
something we see in giant pandas. This is something we
see in any area where human population has grown. Significantly.
Let's move on now and talk about the international effort
(09:48):
to save the panda rick. What can you tell us about, like,
what's being done about these situations. Oh, of course, it
definitely bears talking about, because a lot has been done
over the last four years, and it has had a
very positive impact. China has set up sixty five panda
reserves that protect panda habitat from further development. Some are
(10:09):
off limits to people completely, while others are shared use
areas like our national forests here in the United States.
Another very important thing China has done is to create
natural corridors connecting some reserves to help panda populations stay connected,
kind of eliminating those habitat islands we talked about earlier. Today,
China is currently gaining forest land. The government has started
(10:30):
policies like the Grain to Green program, which provides grain
and cash to farmers who abandoned farming on steep slopes
and replant these areas with natural forests and grasslands. But
we're still not sure if these newly forested areas are
quite suitable for pandas, and say it'll take some time,
of course, but it is definitely a step in the
right direction. And it's very important to point out that
(10:52):
it takes an international effort when it comes to conservation.
Back in the late nineteen eighties and early nineteen nineties,
biologists didn't know if they could save pantas from extinction.
Little was known about their behavior, and pantas did not
reproduce well in zoos. Then San Diego Zoo Wildlife Alliance
partnered with Chinese colleagues in the Chinese government, and by
working together, they created and implemented successful conservation strategies that
(11:16):
resulted in the giant panda being moved from being an
endangered species to a vulnerable species or one step further
away from extinction. Now, of course, that does not mean
we slow down or stop our conservation efforts. In fact,
it means what we've done over the last thirty plus
years is working and we need to keep doing more
of it. And coming up, we'll talk more about the
(11:37):
global conservation efforts to save the giant panda with Ron
sways Good, the director of Conservation Science Recovery Ecology with
San Diego Zoo Wildlife Alliance. That's right after this, and
now it's time for the San Diego Zoo Minute, an
opportunity for you to learn what's new at the zoo.
(12:02):
Earlier this year, the San Diego Zousa Fire Park welcome
to three new residents, eight year old female African lions, Malika,
Zuri and Amira from the called Will Zoo in Texas.
The three lions, who are sisters, curiously explored their new
home at Lion Camp within days of their arrival. They
were shy at first, but soon showed great confidence as
(12:22):
they became comfortable with their new surroundings. And here's a
fun fact. They are the great grand clubs of the
San Diego, ZUSA Fire Parks, beloved Mayo, Lion Easou and
Lion as Mina, who lived there for eighteen years. Did
you know panda's poop a lot, as much as fifty
times a day. That's one of the ways biologists look
(12:43):
for pandas in their natural habitat by finding their poop. Well,
the scientific term is much nicer, it's called scat. In
the first giant pandas arrived at the San Diego Zoo.
(13:04):
For more than thirty years, people from all over the
world fell in love with China's giant pandas and a
new era of panda conservation began, the San Diego Zoo
Wildlife Alliance collaborated with Chinese partners to protect and care
for the giant panda. We're going to talk more about
those strides with Ron sways Good, Director of Recovery Ecology
(13:29):
with San Diego Zoo Wildlife Alliance, Hi Ron Hi any Ron.
The arrival of the first giant pandas to the San
Diego Zoo just really kicked off a wave of excitement.
What do you think it is about the giant panda
that's so endearing to so many people? Absolutely, the panda,
of course is the iconic symbol of hope and friendship
(13:52):
with China. Of course there's a cute factor, and of
course they're peaceful, gentle creatures. So everyone loves panda. Everyone
loves them and they are so cute. So how did
the Sanego Zoo come to be one of only a
handful of places in the US to house the giant panda? Right? Well,
Having pandas is of course a rare privilege. It's bestowed
(14:16):
by the Chinese government, which owns all pandas. It took
us years of effort negotiating with the Chinese back in
the nineteen nineties and of course it paid off, as
we were the first zoo to get a long term loan,
and of course, you know San Diego Zoo's prestigious reputation
didn't hurt in that process. Ron you've had the unique
(14:37):
opportunity to experience pandas in their natural habitat. What was
it like the first time you saw a giant panda
in nature? Oh? Yeah, that was a long time coming.
I'll say the first few years I worked with pandas,
I was working in one of the breeding centers in
China and the will Long Nature Reserve, and so I
wasn't working with pandas and nature, but I frequently got
(15:00):
out into the mountains above the centers and I found
signs of pandas. It's easy to find the signs, but
I never saw a panda. So it wasn't until two
thousand and six when we started a field project working
with our colleagues at the Chinese Academy of Science, one
of the most prestigious academic institutions in all of China.
(15:20):
We set out to search for pandas in the wild
during the breeding season. And the reason to look for
panda's then is because that's the one time of the
year where they're kind of noisy. They're making lots of
vocalizations as part of the meeting. So we had one
of those long days in the field and we kept
hearing them, but we couldn't find them. So it was
starting to get a little late in the day and
(15:43):
I sat down kind of despondent, ready to turn back,
thinking yet another day was going to pass without seeing
a panda, And all of a sudden, this big pandahead
with a little bit of blood trickling from his face
emerges from the bamboo and it was one of the
males that had been fighting another male over access to
(16:04):
a female. And yeah, so he saw me and he
started to approach. Now, pandas are pretty gentle, but this
guy's testosterone was up from all the fighting, so that
didn't feel quite comfortable. So I took a couple of
steps back, and when I did that, he kind of
startled and he moved off, and then he went to
(16:24):
a tree and he did a handstand and he peered
on the tree. Interestingly, just a couple of years before that,
we had done a study to figure out why they
do this handstand, and it turns out it's a dominant signal,
so he was basically telling me, hey, I'm the dominant
bear in this force, so you better watch out before warned.
(16:47):
So back to the San Diego Zoo. As guest at
the San Diego Zoo enjoyed experiencing the giant pandas behind
the scenes there was important conservation work being done. Um
Sande Zoo wile f Alliances reproductive science team worked with
Chinese colleagues to actually artificially inseminate a female panda in
(17:10):
were on how significant of a mouth stone was that
for giant panda conservation? Right, Well, this was a very
significant and major milestone for panda conservation, especially considering at
that time how much trouble everyone was having to get
them to make naturally. And our reproductive science and intero
(17:30):
chronology teams had spent a lot of time at the
Woolong Breeding Center in China, both teaching our colleagues there
and learning from them, and they brought a lot of
know how back to San Diego and they applied this
and we're able to successfully inseminate our female by you
in and of course it resulted in our firstborn him
(17:51):
the first surviving cub ever in the United States, and
it's an important tool for us to have in our toolbox.
Although we've been able to address any of the challenges
with natural mating to this day, artificial insemination is still
a useful tool when some pairs just don't want to
make What challenges might giant panda's face when reproducing, particularly
(18:13):
in human care. Well, if we think back to the
eighties and nineties and much of the history of the
pandas conservation breeding programs, the panda was the butt of
late night jokes on talk shows. They were kind of
the poster child for not knowing how to make. So
these were challenges that we have set out to address
with our teams at the San Diego Zoo Wildlife Alliance.
(18:34):
Working with our colleagues in China, we were working to
improve nutrition and welfare, understand their reproductive physiology, and study
their behavior. Through our studies, we learned that one of
the major problems was communication breakdown. So wild pandas like
to stick to themselves. There are solitary species, but when
the breeding season comes, they start to communicate with one
(18:56):
another through scent, and we found that if we gave
them oportunities to communicate with one another that actually reduced
the aggression between the male and the female and increased
sexual motivation, and it really helped to get them starting
to breed again, and it was very successful. In the end,
we had six cubs born here at the San Diego
(19:16):
Zoo and we helped turn around the breeding program in China.
How did it feel to make some strides in the
right direction after being part of that collaborative effort? For
me personally, it was a career defining experience just being
a part of that. That was really in all of
all the work that our teams here at San Diego
Zoo Wildlife Alliance and in China, our colleagues and other
(19:40):
international groups of conservation mists and scientists, and very very
importantly the Chinese government. They all work together to make
this happen, and all of this is giving the panda
chance at its future. It really motivates me to keep
trying with other species too. Of course, I guess to
summon up the lesson I learned was don't give up.
Definitely do not give up. So how does the conservation
(20:03):
of the giant panda possibly relate to the conservation of
other animals? I'm very glad you asked that question, because
you know, the panda gets so much attention, But it's
really important that we learned from this experience and that
other species benefit, and pandas are really the quintessential umbrella
or flagship species. As an umbrella species, when we protect
(20:27):
habitat for pandas, we're also predicting all the other species
that live there. We also know that establishing these panda
reserves are good for people because, for example, protecting forests
reduces erosion and helps with flood control, saving thousands of
human lives and billions of dollars. Of course, also sequestering
(20:50):
carbon to help reduce the impacts of climate change, and
one analysis we were able to show that for every
dollar spent on panda reserves, there's a at least a
tenfold return and investment that help people as well. The
story of the giant panda is not just one of
(21:10):
conservation but also diplomacy. How has the San Diego Zoo
Wilife Alliance maintained its relationship with your partners in China
over the years. Yeah, it's been a very important relationship
and we've done a lot to nurture that relationship, and
we learned early on that you first have to develop trust,
and to do that you really need a lot of
(21:32):
FaceTime and you need to get to know the people
that you're collaborating with. So over the years, our teams
from San Diego Zoo Wildlife Alliance made dozens and dozens
of trips to visit our colleagues in China, and we
hosted them here at the San Diego Zoo. So that's
really the foundation of all of our accomplishments. And if
(21:52):
you allow me, I'll tell my personal story of my epiphany.
Please do so. Yeah, I call this the Panda Basketball Diploma.
This is story. So when I first arrived in China
at the Welong Breeding Center, I was full of them
and vigor, and I was eager to apply my research
questions to figure out how to get pandas mating again.
(22:13):
And you know, I arrived and of course it was
February of nineteen nineties six and it was cold and wet,
and to be honest, that first month or so, my
to become friends and colleagues weren't particularly enthusiastic about me
being there. I was kind of irrelevant. So I went
(22:34):
to bed cold and lonely many a night. Then one
day the sun came out and the guys got out
of basketball, and I was thinking, huh, well, you know,
I shoot hoops. It's been a couple of years, but
I'm a bit rusty, but maybe I'll get out there.
So I went out and I joined them and we
had a great time playing basketball. And next thing I know,
they're invited me to join them in the staff kitchen
(22:58):
for all the meals, which was you know, warm and
friendly and loud. And I was going to their houses
for dinner and even joined them for vacations. And that
was all wonderful, and of course the byproduct of that
is our collaboration got much much better. At first they
joined in because they wanted to help me, and then
they became committed and we could just work together and
(23:22):
accomplish all these wonderful things. But the lesson I learned is,
you know, make friends first. You have to build that
trust first, and basketball sounds I could help to bring
you guys all together. That's a wonderful story. So what
experience for you stands out the most when it comes
to your time caring for pandas, Oh, there are so
(23:43):
many you know. Of course, that time I first saw
the panda the wild stands out just the overall efforts
to turn around the breeding program and all the great
friendships and collaboration along the way, But perhaps most of all,
it was getting to know some of the individual pandas
there and getting to look inside their lives was really rewarding,
both personally and professionally. And people want to know why
(24:06):
did the giant pandas leave the same Diego zoo in
twenty Well, our pandas returned to China because it was
baked into our loan agreement. You know, we had a
loan and the loan period was up and they needed
to return to their mother country. We were simply honoring
that agreement that was spelled out in our contract. So
(24:27):
what do you think will be the legacy of the
giant panda in the world of wildlife conservation? Well, I
think their legacy should be you can make a difference.
You know, if you roll up your sleeves and you
put in the hard work, you can move the needle
for endangered species conservation, knowing that you really can turn
things around. If people and government's rally to support a species,
(24:50):
it's so empowering and it helps ward off despair. Right, So,
in a word, the giant panda legacy is hope and conservation.
Of course, we all need more hope, and having a
good success story, or at least when in the making,
is a good reason to have hope. Thank you so much, Ron,
We've been talking to Ron Swaye is good, director of
Recovery Ecology about the beloved giant panda. Thanks, thank you,
(25:15):
there's a pleasure. Thanks for listening. We hope you've enjoyed
learning about the beloved giant panda. And believe it or not,
that wraps up season one of Amazing Wildlife San Diego
Zoo Wildlife Alliance podcast. Make sure to catch up on
all of the episodes, so be sure to subscribe on
the I Heart Radio app or wherever you listen to
(25:36):
your favorite shows, because when you subscribe, you will also
catch when season two comes out. Now, ebany, I do
have to ask before we go, what was your favorite
episode of all of these episodes we've done, Rick, you
put me on the spot. Um, it's hard to choose
just one episode. Fair enough, I would say I think
I like the most just animals that clearly show like adaptations,
(25:59):
because it's just fascinating to see how science works. And
then I also like the animals that have the strong
bonds with their offspring, like the orangutang um comes to mind.
How about you? Oh goodness for me? I would, I
honestly have to say, I think the the April first
episode we lucked out that April Fool's Day was on
(26:20):
a Friday, so it gave us an opportunity to write
a script about how animals fool us and the different
things they do. And the thing I liked about that
episode is we covered a lot of different species and
I thought that was kind of a fun, playful episode,
but also, you know, I got to teach people a
lot with that. That was a good one. All right,
fair enough, Well, I'm Abony Money and I'm Rich Schwartz.
(26:42):
Thanks for listening. If you would like to find out
more about San Diego Zoo wildl Aff Alliance, please visit
sdz w a dot org Amazing Wildlife. As a production
of I Heart Radio, our producer is Nikkia Swinton and
our executive producer is Marcia to Peanut. Our audio engineer
and ed editor is Sierra Spreen. For more shows from
(27:03):
My Heart Radio, check out the I Heart Radio app,
Apple podcast or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
H
Hi, I'm Rich Swartz and I'm Abdy Money. Welcome to
Amazing Wildlife, where we explore unique stories of wildlife from
around the world and uncovered fascinating animal facts. This podcast
is a production of I Heart Radio in San Diego
Zoo Wildlife Alliance, in international nonprofit conservation organization behind the
San Diego Zoo and Safari Park. They're black and white
(00:26):
and loved all over. This episode's animal is an international
treasure protected by law. The giant panda is affectionately known
as a cat bear in its native China. Illustrations of
the giant panda can be found in Chinese art dating
back thousands of years. Giant pandas have also fascinated people
(00:47):
living outside of China, first described for science by a
French missionary in eighteen sixty nine, Rick, what do you
think it is about the panda that captures so many
people those hearts and attention? Oh, honestly, Ebany, I have
to say, there's something about the way they look and
the way they move and the way they eat. It
(01:08):
just seems so relatable. I will completely admit when I
started at the San Diego Zoo over twenty years ago,
I had never seen a giant panda in person, and
I knew they were popular and thought, like all bears,
they were pretty interesting. But I can still remember the
first day I saw in a person, and I will
I will fully admit I was completely enamored. I sat
there outside of the habitat and just watched for I
(01:29):
don't even know how long. And I can't say exactly
what it is about them, but yes, they are easy
to fall in love with. Yes, and so many people
I'm sure can relate. Well, it's in the name. But
are giant panda bears actually bears? Ah? Yes, Ebani the
puzzle of the panda bear? What are they related to?
(01:50):
I can say? For years, scientists have been debating about this.
Some thought that the giant panda was a true bear
with special adaptations for living in the bamboo forest, while
others thought they were more closely related to the raccoon family,
while others believe they belong in their completely own, separate
scientific family. Now, through studying the genetic code or the
(02:11):
giant panta's DNA, scientists have confirmed that the giant pantas
are related to bears. And even though we knew that
giant pandas are similar to other bears in their general looks,
the way they walk and climb, their skull characteristics, their
social system, and reproductive biology. Having the ability to confirm
they are a bear through the DNA puts the long
(02:32):
debate to rest. Are they also solitary like other bears
we've discussed, yes, ebony Like other bears, Giant pandas are
solitary by nature, and they will defend their territory when needed.
Because pantas need twenty five to eighty pounds of bamboo
a day, depending upon the individual's needs, it only makes
sense that having another panda around eating the bamboo is
(02:53):
not something you'd enjoy. If two pandas should happen across paths,
they will growl, swat, and lunge at each other in
an effort to defend their territory. It rarely escalates into
a full blown fight, but it can, and giant pantas
can deliver a very powerful bite, which can be dangerous.
And although we just established that giant pantas are solitary
and don't like having other pantas around, there are of
(03:16):
course two exceptions to this. First, the very brief mating
season and I mean brief we're talking a couple of
days here, and second, when a mother has a cub rick.
That leads nicely to my next questions about mating. You
mentioned that pandas will tolerate each other during mating season,
but if they spend so much of their time apart,
(03:38):
how do they pair up in the first place. Although
pantas are solitary as adults, they are exposed to the
sense of other neighboring pandas that have crossed over their
path days or weeks before. If a female's body is
getting ready for breeding, she will start to use scent
marking to let the neighboring males know. If a mail
comes across her a cent a few days later, he
(03:59):
can pick up on the change in her status, going
from the stay in your own territory buddy, to hey,
let's connect sometime soon. Once the male has identified this
change in the female status, he remains closer to this female,
assessing her status more frequently and keeping closer tabs on
her so he can be present when she's ready to breathe.
And this is important as there is only a two
(04:20):
to three day period that the female is receptive to breeding.
When she's no longer receptive, the two pandas move on
with their solitary lives. It's fascinating that the pandas can
determine all of that just from their sense of smell.
Pandas are arguably the most vocal of all bears. One
of the most distinctive of the panda's vocalization, I understand,
(04:43):
is referred to as the bleat, which is described as
similar to the sound a lamb or a goat kid
might make. It's considered a greeting Rick, can you describe
some of the other sounds that pandas might make. I'm
glad you said, dis I thought you're gonna ask me
to do a bleed sound and that want to be bad,
(05:03):
but yes. Oddly enough, the seemingly quiet giant panda is
the most vocal of all the bears. And as much
as we tend to equate roaring with bears, they don't
actually do as much as the movies and television would
kind of have us believe. And in the case of
the giant panda, their main vocalization includes honks, huffs, barks,
and growls along with a goat like bleat that you mentioned.
(05:27):
Young cubs are even known to croak and squeal rather
loudly to get their mom's attention, and of course, being solitary,
the giant panda uses other ways to communicate because vocalizations
only travel so far in the bamboo forest, and both
males and females have a scent pland under their short
tail that secretes a waxy substance used to leave scent marks.
(05:48):
The analogy of this, of course, is it's kind of
like leaving a post it note for other pandas to
find the scent marking. Post it notes can tell other
pandas to stay away like we mentioned, or might be
ready for breeding, and if they're a threat or not,
or just passing through things like that. Now many of
us are familiar with the act of animals leaving their
sense or are marking their territory as it's called. I
(06:10):
immediately think of our own families puppy who when we walk,
he doesn't pass a tree without leaving behind something. But
in the case of the giant panda, um, I guess
along with meeting, how does the scenting leave behind communicate
so many different messages to other pandas well? Ebony, When
giant pandas sent marked trees, rocks, bamboo, and bushes. Our
(06:33):
nose can pick up on the smell from about a
foot away, and we usually consider it kind of stinky.
But giant pandas have a much stronger sense of smell
and it's able to pick up on a lot more
information than you and I can. The San Diego Zoo
Wildlfe Alliance has done a lot of work with giant pandas,
and we've discovered the giant pantas can detect the sex, age,
reproductive condition, social status, and even individual identity of the
(06:56):
scent maker, as well as how long the scent has
been there. Giant pandas are only about the size of
a stick of butter at birth, and they're hairless and helpless.
Rick What does it take for them to survive and
what's the role if any of the male pandas or
(07:16):
the female adult pandas. Like many other solitary species, the
male panda does not help raise the cubs. In fact,
the female does not want them around. After breeding, the
mother giant panta takes care of the tiny cub, usually
cradling it in one paw and then holding it close
to her chest for several days after birth, the mother
does not leave the den, not even to eat or drink. Then,
(07:38):
as the cub develops and grows, it will open its
eyes around fifty to sixty days of age, and by
ten of weeks the cub begins to crawl and move around,
and around fourteen weeks of age, their teeth start to
come in and the mother and cubs spend less time
in their den. By twenty one weeks, the cub is
able to walk pretty well, and at that time it
will start to play with its mom and even wander
(07:58):
further from the mother to explore. At seven to nine
months of age, it starts testing out bamboo, first mouthing
and chewing and playing with it, and then eventually eating it.
And then while around six twenty months of age, we
see the mother panda sending her offspring out on its
own so she can prepare to have her next cup. Today,
pandas have fewer predators than they have historically. Unfortunately, tigers
(08:22):
and leopards are only found in reduced numbers and what
remains of their natural habitat. Still, it's estimated that there
are just over eight hundred giant pandas left in the world.
Rick what are the panda's present day threats to its survival.
Unfortunately for panda's, China's forests have experienced dramatic change over
(08:44):
the last several decades. The country has more than a
billion people, and just like in the United States, with
more people have come more roads, homes, cities, and farms.
Natural resources are needed to support all of this growth,
so there is mining and harvesting of trees in what
is considered a giant panda habitat. The giant panda's range
(09:05):
shrunk as trees were removed and logging operations and land
was cleared for farming. In fact, panda suitable habitat decreased
by half between nineteen seventy four. Populations of pandas have
become small and isolated, hemmed in by civilization, and some
panda habitat has literally been encircled by farms, villages, and
(09:26):
business sites, creating sort of these habitat islands between which
pandas can't safely move without coming upon human communities or
crossing dangerous highways. And fragmented populations like this aren't just
something we see in giant pandas. This is something we
see in any area where human population has grown. Significantly.
Let's move on now and talk about the international effort
(09:48):
to save the panda rick. What can you tell us about, like,
what's being done about these situations. Oh, of course, it
definitely bears talking about, because a lot has been done
over the last four years, and it has had a
very positive impact. China has set up sixty five panda
reserves that protect panda habitat from further development. Some are
(10:09):
off limits to people completely, while others are shared use
areas like our national forests here in the United States.
Another very important thing China has done is to create
natural corridors connecting some reserves to help panda populations stay connected,
kind of eliminating those habitat islands we talked about earlier. Today,
China is currently gaining forest land. The government has started
(10:30):
policies like the Grain to Green program, which provides grain
and cash to farmers who abandoned farming on steep slopes
and replant these areas with natural forests and grasslands. But
we're still not sure if these newly forested areas are
quite suitable for pandas, and say it'll take some time,
of course, but it is definitely a step in the
right direction. And it's very important to point out that
(10:52):
it takes an international effort when it comes to conservation.
Back in the late nineteen eighties and early nineteen nineties,
biologists didn't know if they could save pantas from extinction.
Little was known about their behavior, and pantas did not
reproduce well in zoos. Then San Diego Zoo Wildlife Alliance
partnered with Chinese colleagues in the Chinese government, and by
working together, they created and implemented successful conservation strategies that
(11:16):
resulted in the giant panda being moved from being an
endangered species to a vulnerable species or one step further
away from extinction. Now, of course, that does not mean
we slow down or stop our conservation efforts. In fact,
it means what we've done over the last thirty plus
years is working and we need to keep doing more
of it. And coming up, we'll talk more about the
(11:37):
global conservation efforts to save the giant panda with Ron
sways Good, the director of Conservation Science Recovery Ecology with
San Diego Zoo Wildlife Alliance. That's right after this, and
now it's time for the San Diego Zoo Minute, an
opportunity for you to learn what's new at the zoo.
(12:02):
Earlier this year, the San Diego Zousa Fire Park welcome
to three new residents, eight year old female African lions, Malika,
Zuri and Amira from the called Will Zoo in Texas.
The three lions, who are sisters, curiously explored their new
home at Lion Camp within days of their arrival. They
were shy at first, but soon showed great confidence as
(12:22):
they became comfortable with their new surroundings. And here's a
fun fact. They are the great grand clubs of the
San Diego, ZUSA Fire Parks, beloved Mayo, Lion Easou and
Lion as Mina, who lived there for eighteen years. Did
you know panda's poop a lot, as much as fifty
times a day. That's one of the ways biologists look
(12:43):
for pandas in their natural habitat by finding their poop. Well,
the scientific term is much nicer, it's called scat. In
the first giant pandas arrived at the San Diego Zoo.
(13:04):
For more than thirty years, people from all over the
world fell in love with China's giant pandas and a
new era of panda conservation began, the San Diego Zoo
Wildlife Alliance collaborated with Chinese partners to protect and care
for the giant panda. We're going to talk more about
those strides with Ron sways Good, Director of Recovery Ecology
(13:29):
with San Diego Zoo Wildlife Alliance, Hi Ron Hi any Ron.
The arrival of the first giant pandas to the San
Diego Zoo just really kicked off a wave of excitement.
What do you think it is about the giant panda
that's so endearing to so many people? Absolutely, the panda,
of course is the iconic symbol of hope and friendship
(13:52):
with China. Of course there's a cute factor, and of
course they're peaceful, gentle creatures. So everyone loves panda. Everyone
loves them and they are so cute. So how did
the Sanego Zoo come to be one of only a
handful of places in the US to house the giant panda? Right? Well,
Having pandas is of course a rare privilege. It's bestowed
(14:16):
by the Chinese government, which owns all pandas. It took
us years of effort negotiating with the Chinese back in
the nineteen nineties and of course it paid off, as
we were the first zoo to get a long term loan,
and of course, you know San Diego Zoo's prestigious reputation
didn't hurt in that process. Ron you've had the unique
(14:37):
opportunity to experience pandas in their natural habitat. What was
it like the first time you saw a giant panda
in nature? Oh? Yeah, that was a long time coming.
I'll say the first few years I worked with pandas,
I was working in one of the breeding centers in
China and the will Long Nature Reserve, and so I
wasn't working with pandas and nature, but I frequently got
(15:00):
out into the mountains above the centers and I found
signs of pandas. It's easy to find the signs, but
I never saw a panda. So it wasn't until two
thousand and six when we started a field project working
with our colleagues at the Chinese Academy of Science, one
of the most prestigious academic institutions in all of China.
(15:20):
We set out to search for pandas in the wild
during the breeding season. And the reason to look for
panda's then is because that's the one time of the
year where they're kind of noisy. They're making lots of
vocalizations as part of the meeting. So we had one
of those long days in the field and we kept
hearing them, but we couldn't find them. So it was
starting to get a little late in the day and
(15:43):
I sat down kind of despondent, ready to turn back,
thinking yet another day was going to pass without seeing
a panda, And all of a sudden, this big pandahead
with a little bit of blood trickling from his face
emerges from the bamboo and it was one of the
males that had been fighting another male over access to
(16:04):
a female. And yeah, so he saw me and he
started to approach. Now, pandas are pretty gentle, but this
guy's testosterone was up from all the fighting, so that
didn't feel quite comfortable. So I took a couple of
steps back, and when I did that, he kind of
startled and he moved off, and then he went to
(16:24):
a tree and he did a handstand and he peered
on the tree. Interestingly, just a couple of years before that,
we had done a study to figure out why they
do this handstand, and it turns out it's a dominant signal,
so he was basically telling me, hey, I'm the dominant
bear in this force, so you better watch out before warned.
(16:47):
So back to the San Diego Zoo. As guest at
the San Diego Zoo enjoyed experiencing the giant pandas behind
the scenes there was important conservation work being done. Um
Sande Zoo wile f Alliances reproductive science team worked with
Chinese colleagues to actually artificially inseminate a female panda in
(17:10):
were on how significant of a mouth stone was that
for giant panda conservation? Right, Well, this was a very
significant and major milestone for panda conservation, especially considering at
that time how much trouble everyone was having to get
them to make naturally. And our reproductive science and intero
(17:30):
chronology teams had spent a lot of time at the
Woolong Breeding Center in China, both teaching our colleagues there
and learning from them, and they brought a lot of
know how back to San Diego and they applied this
and we're able to successfully inseminate our female by you
in and of course it resulted in our firstborn him
(17:51):
the first surviving cub ever in the United States, and
it's an important tool for us to have in our toolbox.
Although we've been able to address any of the challenges
with natural mating to this day, artificial insemination is still
a useful tool when some pairs just don't want to
make What challenges might giant panda's face when reproducing, particularly
(18:13):
in human care. Well, if we think back to the
eighties and nineties and much of the history of the
pandas conservation breeding programs, the panda was the butt of
late night jokes on talk shows. They were kind of
the poster child for not knowing how to make. So
these were challenges that we have set out to address
with our teams at the San Diego Zoo Wildlife Alliance.
(18:34):
Working with our colleagues in China, we were working to
improve nutrition and welfare, understand their reproductive physiology, and study
their behavior. Through our studies, we learned that one of
the major problems was communication breakdown. So wild pandas like
to stick to themselves. There are solitary species, but when
the breeding season comes, they start to communicate with one
(18:56):
another through scent, and we found that if we gave
them oportunities to communicate with one another that actually reduced
the aggression between the male and the female and increased
sexual motivation, and it really helped to get them starting
to breed again, and it was very successful. In the end,
we had six cubs born here at the San Diego
(19:16):
Zoo and we helped turn around the breeding program in China.
How did it feel to make some strides in the
right direction after being part of that collaborative effort? For
me personally, it was a career defining experience just being
a part of that. That was really in all of
all the work that our teams here at San Diego
Zoo Wildlife Alliance and in China, our colleagues and other
(19:40):
international groups of conservation mists and scientists, and very very
importantly the Chinese government. They all work together to make
this happen, and all of this is giving the panda
chance at its future. It really motivates me to keep
trying with other species too. Of course, I guess to
summon up the lesson I learned was don't give up.
Definitely do not give up. So how does the conservation
(20:03):
of the giant panda possibly relate to the conservation of
other animals? I'm very glad you asked that question, because
you know, the panda gets so much attention, But it's
really important that we learned from this experience and that
other species benefit, and pandas are really the quintessential umbrella
or flagship species. As an umbrella species, when we protect
(20:27):
habitat for pandas, we're also predicting all the other species
that live there. We also know that establishing these panda
reserves are good for people because, for example, protecting forests
reduces erosion and helps with flood control, saving thousands of
human lives and billions of dollars. Of course, also sequestering
(20:50):
carbon to help reduce the impacts of climate change, and
one analysis we were able to show that for every
dollar spent on panda reserves, there's a at least a
tenfold return and investment that help people as well. The
story of the giant panda is not just one of
(21:10):
conservation but also diplomacy. How has the San Diego Zoo
Wilife Alliance maintained its relationship with your partners in China
over the years. Yeah, it's been a very important relationship
and we've done a lot to nurture that relationship, and
we learned early on that you first have to develop trust,
and to do that you really need a lot of
(21:32):
FaceTime and you need to get to know the people
that you're collaborating with. So over the years, our teams
from San Diego Zoo Wildlife Alliance made dozens and dozens
of trips to visit our colleagues in China, and we
hosted them here at the San Diego Zoo. So that's
really the foundation of all of our accomplishments. And if
(21:52):
you allow me, I'll tell my personal story of my epiphany.
Please do so. Yeah, I call this the Panda Basketball Diploma.
This is story. So when I first arrived in China
at the Welong Breeding Center, I was full of them
and vigor, and I was eager to apply my research
questions to figure out how to get pandas mating again.
(22:13):
And you know, I arrived and of course it was
February of nineteen nineties six and it was cold and wet,
and to be honest, that first month or so, my
to become friends and colleagues weren't particularly enthusiastic about me
being there. I was kind of irrelevant. So I went
(22:34):
to bed cold and lonely many a night. Then one
day the sun came out and the guys got out
of basketball, and I was thinking, huh, well, you know,
I shoot hoops. It's been a couple of years, but
I'm a bit rusty, but maybe I'll get out there.
So I went out and I joined them and we
had a great time playing basketball. And next thing I know,
they're invited me to join them in the staff kitchen
(22:58):
for all the meals, which was you know, warm and
friendly and loud. And I was going to their houses
for dinner and even joined them for vacations. And that
was all wonderful, and of course the byproduct of that
is our collaboration got much much better. At first they
joined in because they wanted to help me, and then
they became committed and we could just work together and
(23:22):
accomplish all these wonderful things. But the lesson I learned is,
you know, make friends first. You have to build that
trust first, and basketball sounds I could help to bring
you guys all together. That's a wonderful story. So what
experience for you stands out the most when it comes
to your time caring for pandas, Oh, there are so
(23:43):
many you know. Of course, that time I first saw
the panda the wild stands out just the overall efforts
to turn around the breeding program and all the great
friendships and collaboration along the way, But perhaps most of all,
it was getting to know some of the individual pandas
there and getting to look inside their lives was really rewarding,
both personally and professionally. And people want to know why
(24:06):
did the giant pandas leave the same Diego zoo in
twenty Well, our pandas returned to China because it was
baked into our loan agreement. You know, we had a
loan and the loan period was up and they needed
to return to their mother country. We were simply honoring
that agreement that was spelled out in our contract. So
(24:27):
what do you think will be the legacy of the
giant panda in the world of wildlife conservation? Well, I
think their legacy should be you can make a difference.
You know, if you roll up your sleeves and you
put in the hard work, you can move the needle
for endangered species conservation, knowing that you really can turn
things around. If people and government's rally to support a species,
(24:50):
it's so empowering and it helps ward off despair. Right, So,
in a word, the giant panda legacy is hope and conservation.
Of course, we all need more hope, and having a
good success story, or at least when in the making,
is a good reason to have hope. Thank you so much, Ron,
We've been talking to Ron Swaye is good, director of
Recovery Ecology about the beloved giant panda. Thanks, thank you,
(25:15):
there's a pleasure. Thanks for listening. We hope you've enjoyed
learning about the beloved giant panda. And believe it or not,
that wraps up season one of Amazing Wildlife San Diego
Zoo Wildlife Alliance podcast. Make sure to catch up on
all of the episodes, so be sure to subscribe on
the I Heart Radio app or wherever you listen to
(25:36):
your favorite shows, because when you subscribe, you will also
catch when season two comes out. Now, ebany, I do
have to ask before we go, what was your favorite
episode of all of these episodes we've done, Rick, you
put me on the spot. Um, it's hard to choose
just one episode. Fair enough, I would say I think
I like the most just animals that clearly show like adaptations,
(25:59):
because it's just fascinating to see how science works. And
then I also like the animals that have the strong
bonds with their offspring, like the orangutang um comes to mind.
How about you? Oh goodness for me? I would, I
honestly have to say, I think the the April first
episode we lucked out that April Fool's Day was on
(26:20):
a Friday, so it gave us an opportunity to write
a script about how animals fool us and the different
things they do. And the thing I liked about that
episode is we covered a lot of different species and
I thought that was kind of a fun, playful episode,
but also, you know, I got to teach people a
lot with that. That was a good one. All right,
fair enough, Well, I'm Abony Money and I'm Rich Schwartz.
(26:42):
Thanks for listening. If you would like to find out
more about San Diego Zoo wildl Aff Alliance, please visit
sdz w a dot org Amazing Wildlife. As a production
of I Heart Radio, our producer is Nikkia Swinton and
our executive producer is Marcia to Peanut. Our audio engineer
and ed editor is Sierra Spreen. For more shows from
(27:03):
My Heart Radio, check out the I Heart Radio app,
Apple podcast or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
H
Hosts And Creators
Rick Schwartz
Marco Wendt
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