November 8, 2024 • 28 mins
How do you help a tusker with a wiggly tooth? What do you do if you need a blood sample from an elephant? You ask them nicely to participate in their own care. In this episode, hosts Rick and Marco speak with Megan McMahon, lead wildlife care specialist for elephants at San Diego Zoo Wildlife Alliance, about working with the largest land mammal on the planet. And they even get an inside scoop about the all-new and exciting Elephant Valley, opening at the San Diego Zoo Safari Park in 2025.
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hi, I'm Rick Schwartz.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
When els world, I'm Marco went.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to Amazing Wildlife, where we explore unique stories of
wildlife from around the world and uncovered fascinating animal facts.
This podcast is a production of iHeartRadio's Ruby Studio and
San Diego Zoo Wildlife Alliance in international nonprofit conservation organization
which oversees the San Diego Zoo and Safari Park. Marco, honestly,
between the two of us, you are at the Safari
(00:29):
Park a lot more than I am. But when I
was there the other day, I have to admit I
was really impressed with all the work going on for
the elephants, with the updating of the habitat and everything else.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Oh I know.
Speaker 4 (00:39):
I mean, they've done a lot of work in Elephant
Valley so far, and they're still doing so much more.
It's going to be a whole new experience for our
guests when it opens, But the habitat is getting a
full makeover as well.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Yeah, I honestly don't know what I'm more excited about.
I mean, just seeing how our guests are going to
react to this whole new area once it opens, or
how the elephants will interact and react to the renovated habitat.
I know there is more work to be done, but
I cannot wait for this to open.
Speaker 4 (01:04):
I know it's you mean, and I'm also thinking about
how the wildlife care specialists will adapt and you know,
work with the herd. I mean, like, will the elephants
be so excited about the new space that maybe they
don't want to do anything else?
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Right, I know they're planning on having new pools and
water features. Makes me wonder will playtime in the new
pools override doing all the other things or will.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
The new experiences and enrichment be more interesting to them
than the new pool areas.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Yeah, that does make me wonder. And seeing us, everything
our elephants do is pretty much up to them. Do
you think the workday for our staff will be a
lot different once Elephant Valley opens?
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Hmmm?
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Man?
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Maybe?
Speaker 4 (01:38):
I mean, I know from our past episode about matriarchal
groups that when there's an older female in charge of
the group, whoever that matriarch is of the herd will
set the pace.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
For how the elephants interact with the new habitat.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
You know, we got a lot of questions and I
feel like we could just go to the Safari Park
and maybe ask someone. I mean, after all, the team
is there now taking care of the herd while construction
is happening, and I know from previous episodes they do
a lot of really fascinating training and behavior work over there,
even things like elephants participating in their own care.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
Hold on, hold on, did you say we get to
go back to this at Fari Park for this episode?
Speaker 1 (02:12):
I feel like we should. I mean, how else are
we going to find out more about the elephants and
possibly learn more about what's happening with Elephant Valley construction?
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Friend, you don't got to tell me to us. Let's
go to the Safari Park, all right, let's go.
Speaker 5 (02:25):
I am Megan McMahon. I am the lead wildlife care
specialist at Elephants.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Meghan, thank you so much for taking the time. We
are here right now at the Safari Park, and there
is so much going on at this fire park with
our elephants. Anybody who's been here the last year, year
and a half knows that it's just constantly changing over there.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Yeah, Magic, what's happening exactly?
Speaker 1 (02:48):
And having Meghan here allows us to find out what
is going on with the elephant herd here at the
Fari Park. And I think probably the best way to
start this off is, Meghan, can you tell us about
the herd? Who do we have? What are the numbers,
what's the ratio of boys and girls? Who's in charge
all that stuff?
Speaker 5 (03:04):
Yeah, we have eight elephants at the Safari Park. They
arrange in age from thirty three to six years old. Wow,
we've got seven girls, one boy and they are a
matriarticle society. So they are led by Swazi. She is
our dominant female and they all kind of look to her. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
I love that. I remember we interviewed Christy Burtis.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
Right, we're talking about the importance of matierarchy and the
dynamics with that, you know, but if the public's not aware, like,
can you deep to have a little more like, So,
there's someone that's in charge of this herd, right, and
it's always going to be a female.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Can you talk about that little Yeah?
Speaker 5 (03:36):
So in the wild it would be usually the oldest
female and then within their herd is going to be
a lot of related females, a lot of sisters, a
lot of daughters, and then there's going to be some
young boys in there. Those young boys will grow up
with their moms and sisters and eventually move away from
their home herd and find other young boys to learn from.
(03:56):
And that's kind of what we see at the park.
So we have and another two adult females. We have
Indula and I'm Danni. Those three have all had babies
since coming to the park in the early two thousands,
and they have expanded this herd, and we've had young
boys through the years, and those young boys have moved
to different places, and you'll actually see two of them
(04:18):
down at the San Diego Zoo.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
I love that connection.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
Actually, Emma was smiling because while we're getting ready for
the interview, I was pulling out my bag and I
was at the Safari Park and I pulled that little
I called the Safari dirt. It's a certain color, and
I'm looking over the table. Everybody, let me describe what
I'm saying right now, because I'm seeing her phone with
all that Safari dirt all over it and her shoes.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
So not to call her out, but you know, during the.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
Break time, you could always call out the elephant specialist
because they roll in covered it in dirt with big
smiles because you know there's nuances to working with elephants.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Honestly, it's in species.
Speaker 4 (04:49):
I've always wanted to train alongside with you, but with
my behavior background and coming in, I was listening to
a Spider episode, and I love the nuances of so
many types of animals. We went from one of the smallest.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
In the world, true the last episode of Spiders, and
now we're talking at exactly right.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
Now with the largest terrestrial animal. And you just spoke
about some of the social nuances. But it's not only
all that heavy lifting. You guys are working super hard,
by the way, every single day, but there's also like
behavioral nuances you have to think about with an animal
that has all these like highly developed social structures. Right,
Can you talk a little bit about what are there
some of the day to day things you have to
do alongside this awesome herd here at the Safari Park.
Speaker 5 (05:25):
Yeah, So, just like us, things change from the day
to day. Personalities are individuals and they can be really
great with each other one day and want their personal
space the next day.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
So introverts are extroverts, right, Yeah.
Speaker 5 (05:43):
Yeah, we definitely have a few elephants that would rather
just be off to the side and they want to
be with everyone, but they want their own space with it,
so we try to be mindful of those kind of interactions.
We have to move all of our elephants into different
areas every day to do all the cleaning, so we
try to pair them up with elephants that they want
to be with, and we pay attention to the elephants
that they maybe don't want to be with and use
(06:05):
that to our advantage.
Speaker 4 (06:06):
Wow, it's a I mean, I'm making light of it,
but in Spanish you call it the chiefe men like
the gossip of the day, like, oh, she doesn't want
to be alongside with her this morning, so we got
to change it up a little bit. I know, making
light of it, but no, really, you're really looking into
those nuances in behavior. And it makes me think of
a question I've always wondered about the team with elephants,
because it depends on what species we're training with, whether
it's the park or the San Diego Zoo. But further specialists,
(06:29):
are a specialist assigned a certain individual elephant, or can
each specialist work each individual animal because they know there's
sometimes nuances with training.
Speaker 5 (06:37):
Right, so all of our specialists can work all of
our elephants, but we do have teams for each elephant,
So one elephant may have four specialists that do more
of the specific training. So whether it's a husbandry behavior
or learning a new behavior, those four people focus with
that animal on those behaviors gotta go and then once
(06:59):
the behaviors are trains, they kind of open up to
everyone else, so everyone else will then be able to
do those behaviors as well. It also gives us an
opportunity because we have eight elephants and there's a lot
going on. Four people know exactly how that elephant is
on the day to day. They know what's normal, they
know what's abnormal, and we can fine tune that and
see things a little sooner because those four people are
(07:22):
paying attention more closely to that specific elephants behavior.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Yeah, it gives an opportunity for them to know those
little subtle things in the body language. Right, they're kidding, right,
And I think a lot of people who don't work
with animals don't realize how much communication happens from the
animal to us, right, because we're so versed in what
is the normal stance, what's the normal pace, what's a
normal maneuvering around food sources or interacting with each other
versus what's a little bit often different than reading that
(07:47):
body language. You had mentioned though, that you've got a
team of four, for example, working with one individual training
a new behavior of some sort. I want to lean
in a little bit on our training that we do here.
I remember back when I was in college, way back
in the nineties, when they first started doing protective contact
work here, which was unheard of with elephants. It was
(08:08):
something that was looked at like, Okay, well, this is
how we do marine mammals and water when the people
can't be in there with them. So it was adapted
and changed, and now it's just how we do things here.
We are thirty some years later, and it's really so
cool to see how our teams can work. I would
love for you to explain, perhaps to our audience, what
is protective contact training and how does that work? And
(08:30):
I know for you you had mentioned before you were talking,
you've been here eight years. You know you're working with elephants.
For you, this is just how we work with elephants.
And I think a lot of people who might have
like a dog at home, we're be like, Okay, I
got to push on some butt to make it sit
and train that vine. That's not something you guys are doing.
This is completely different. So yeah, expand on that for
me if you would.
Speaker 5 (08:46):
Yeah. So, protective contact means that we always have a barrier,
whether it's steel bars or large wire cables. There's always
something between us and the animal, right, and that's a
lot for our safety, but it's also for them. If
we have something that separates us from the animal, they
have full choice to participate with us. We call it
a trust based training style, and what that means is
(09:10):
they can choose to interact with us. If they choose,
they can get reinforced, which is given something that they want, food, scratches, water,
They get a reinforcer for participating with us. And then
from there we can encourage and shape new behaviors. So
by training them to present a foot, we can look
(09:31):
at their feet and we don't need to go in
with them and force them to show us the bottom
of their feet because they'll willingly offer it. Same for
a lot of other behaviors. We can train them to
turn around so we can look at their tail, we
can look at their teeth, their tusks. There are a
lot of different behaviors that we have trained so that
we don't have to force them to do anything. They
(09:52):
can participate in their own healthcare.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Yeah, and I think one of my favorites you mentioned
the healthcare. You mentioned you know that you want to
look at the rump and their train to turn around.
They could walk away if they want going to make
But the one that got me when I first saw
years and years ago was a blood draw needles. I
can handle it. I'm not going to pass out, but
I'm going to look the other way while they're sticking
to me, and I'm like, I just breathe through it.
Breathe through it. You're fine. And here's an elephant. You guys,
(10:17):
ask it to step up, turns its side till you
put its ear through the slot. Nothing's restrained. And because
you have high value, it wants reward. They're like, yeah,
go ahead, put the needle in. Take some blood out
of my ear. Because when we do go behind the ears,
because it's very vascular, very easy to do. So explain
a little bit about the rewards system. Obviously, they have
food out on habitat, there's water out on habitat, they
(10:40):
have the opportunity to get everything they need both. Does
every elephant is it apple? Is it yeah? Or is
everybody different? Does everyone have That's a great question.
Speaker 5 (10:50):
So we do tend to use a lot of alfalfa
pellet and produce as our reinforcers. They don't get a
ton of that out in the yard, but they do
have hay out in the yard. They have water, like you.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Said, yeah, which is fun to play with, enjoyable.
Speaker 5 (11:05):
So they usually know that when we're around there's these
extra reinforcers. These extra produce extra pellet that they wouldn't
get otherwise unless they wanted to spend.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Some time with us these opportunities.
Speaker 5 (11:16):
Yeah. We can also use other factors environmental or social
as reinforcers as well. So if it's really hot and
we're training them in an area that's warm, sometimes a
reinforcer is just moving them to a shade spot to
continue their session. If it's environmental or if it's social,
if we can plan those into our sessions, we can
use those extra reinforcers, and it helps motivate them because
(11:40):
they know they do this hard thing, they get to
go do something else. They get to play in water.
So we try to make sure that we are setting
them up for their training session so that we can
give them something they really like in the end.
Speaker 4 (11:53):
And to really just stress the nuance of that, like
you guys were talking about, just protect the contact.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
And animals can easily just walk away.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
And it reminds me like free flight bird training. They
could easily just go yeah, no, I'm going to go
this way.
Speaker 4 (12:05):
But there's a lot of nuance establishing the necessity the
desire for these reinforcers. And again, like it could be
a shady spot, it could be like a cool pool
for a castory as an example to you. So there's
a lot of nuances see that. And earlier, like you
were talking about those subtleties we look at right with
certain species, Like I know, I'm more of a bird
heavy background. So if I see a bird, maybe ruffle
it's feather, there's a certain way and cock its head
(12:25):
and like dilate its people like that.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Can mean a good thing or a bad thing.
Speaker 4 (12:29):
But I'm wondering with elephants, can you describe some unique
communications that they do that you kind of look for.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
What's one on one elephant communication.
Speaker 5 (12:37):
That you look out, So you're looking at overall body
posture and overall what their head is looking like is
going to be their primary. So are their ears relaxed,
are their eyes relaxed? What's their trunk like? We do
trunk targeting here at the park, and that's something that
we rely pretty heavily on for identifying how they're feeling.
If they're super tense, that trunk is going to be
(12:58):
a lot more tense. It's not going to be a fluid, nice,
relaxed muscle. It's going to be contracted and tense. So
we can look at that kind of thing. If they're
not willing to trunk target with us, maybe today is
not the day that we ask for that blood. Maybe
we just do an approximation and see how they do
with that and reinforce that. So sometimes we walk into
a session and we may not do the blood collection
(13:21):
the folk care. We may just pretend like we're going
to do it and then reinforce them for participating. If
behaviorally they're looking a little off, and behaviorally off could
be anything from ear flaring to backing away from us.
They could be rumbling or making a lot of vocalizations
like they're communicating with someone else. So all of that
were kind of keeping in mind for when going into
(13:43):
a session.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
That's awesome.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
I love that you may even kind of pretend you're
go into a session here, but kind of keep easy
that day, like to make it a little funny, Like
I sometimes want to sleep in the weekend, Okay, Kobe,
My husband will wake up extra early, take care of
all the chores, and he just lets me just ease
into my morning because you know it's going to be
a rough day for me.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
To appreciate that.
Speaker 4 (14:01):
So I love that you're looking at those really subtle
things every single day, because every day.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Is a little different's a little different. Yeah, I want
to go back to what you said to Megan about
participating in the session. You know, we've talked about how
particular contact they can walk away if they want, so
clearly they're choosing to participate. One of the things we
talk about often in our tours or with our guests
is how the animals participate in their own care. We've
touched on the blood draw that's done by the ear,
We've touched on looking at their feet. What is some
(14:29):
of the actual care that the elephants participate in. What
does that mean and what does that look like.
Speaker 5 (14:34):
One of the most exciting ones for me that I
was involved in was elephants grow. They have six sets
of teeth their whole life. They grow like a conveyor belt,
and the old one will chip away and fall out
as a new one grows in. And we had one
elephant whose new tooth was growing in, but the old
tooth wasn't growing out, so instead of growing out and shipping,
it was turning. So now she had a crooked tooth
(14:56):
that could potentially impact the way the new tooth grows
in because it doesn't have a clear way in. So
what we've trained them to do is open their mouth,
let us look at their teeth, and we just took
that a step farther, so we started manipulating the tooth,
touching the tooth, doing this in areas where her tusks
could rest nicely on a bar so there was a
(15:16):
nice safe space underneath. And then we actually were able
to present what we called a tooth wiggler, which was
basically a tool that our veterinarians created that we could
put on either side of the tooth and practice wiggling it.
So we were able to do that daily and just
start kind of helping that tooth loosen up. And it
took about a month, but she eventually during one of
(15:39):
these sessions just pulled her tooth out. It was CRISI,
so we were wiggling it. She stepped away, removed the tooth,
through it on the ground, and then continued with her session,
trunk into her mouth, pulled it.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Out, and then just tossed it aside. Since yeah, it
was so but that's just.
Speaker 5 (16:02):
Like a really fun, wild one of what we can.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Do where it's a great example just keep going.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
It.
Speaker 4 (16:08):
Also, just kudos to the veterinary team, right, yeah this
week happen to be veterinary technician.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
The nuance that they developed this thing.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
The tooth wiggler. I mean you kidding. I mean, just
for this specific scenario, that's great team.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
But I just feel like, as you're going into that
training session discussing who's going to be doing what parts,
someone had to volunteer. I get to be the tooth
fair today I would have said.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
No money under the pillow.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
But it's just like that's awesome, that's so cool, And
again it really we hear that term in our zoo
world and animal care world participating in their own care.
What a great story that not only shows that the
animals choosing to allow you to manipulate a tooth that
isn't sitting right. Anybody who sattle loose cheese can remember
or has a kid dealing with a loose tooth. It
(16:55):
can be very uncomfortable scary. But to allow for that
to happen, for us to go in there with a
specialized tool and then to finally go, you know what,
I think it's loose enough. I'm going to go ahead
and take it out, and then I'm gonna pull back
up from my reward.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
Yeah, I love Yeah.
Speaker 5 (17:08):
Yeah. Trunks are amazing.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
They can really do.
Speaker 5 (17:10):
It's a hands so watching them use that in this
way was really exciting. And also watching her run to
every one of those sessions, so she never showed any
latency or hesitancy to go into a session. We did
it in the same spot every day, which isn't ideal
for us. We like to be variable and change the predictability.
But in this case that there wasn't a ton of
(17:31):
places we could get her mouth in that spot, but
every day running to that spot ready to go. She
loved lettuceheads, so that was a huge reinforcer for her,
So being able to throw that in her mouth after
she was glad to go, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
That is so cool.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
I know, I love that. That's amazing.
Speaker 4 (17:48):
And also, like earlier, you kind of mentioned sometimes you
have to do work with the younger elephants, right, and
you mentioned maybe moving away from mom a little bit
to focus, because I remember seeing a session once where.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Just the little youngsters trying to learn how to use
their trunk.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
That alone is a challenge, you know.
Speaker 4 (18:03):
And just I love the building of the relationships and
the trusted let them learn how to participate in that care,
which is really really great. I was thinking, like what's
going on right now? All the change is happening. You know,
what are your favorite like day to day? You know,
describe a quick day for me as an elephant specialist
here at the Safari Park.
Speaker 5 (18:17):
So right now, we're working really heavily with the construction
team to make sure that they're able to accomplish what
they need while we're able to give the elephants what
they need. So it's a lot of give and take
and a lot of just compromise sometimes. But it's been
really great to watch the elephants through the process, because
we have to give them so much credit for working
together and having such a good social structure because no
(18:40):
matter what we've thrown at them, whether it's a boom
lift that has to move a container in the other yard,
they have not had serious reactions to pretty much anything
we've thrown at them. They gather up, they circle up,
just like they would in the wild. They've tried to
protect their little calves, and then they calm down because
they have each other. So with this construction and minds,
(19:02):
it's hard to say what's a day to day because
every day.
Speaker 4 (19:06):
It highlights again like the importance of those relationships, of
all the background and training, like to our episode of
the Gorilla movie.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
You remember with Franklin Monroe.
Speaker 4 (19:14):
And how they saw the balloon, all these little sites
and sounds that normally happen in the zoo environment. But
again with that trust, with that strength and training that
they get by it just fine.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
So that's great.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
You had mentioned the compromise in working with the construction
team and what they need versus what the elephants need,
and that they will go into an alert circle at
times as things are changing with the construction. But then
it relax back down. I mean, yes, in animal care
sometimes consistency of schedule things like that and day to
day routines are important. But also I know here at
Safari Park talking with a lot of the staff, like
(19:43):
with the rhinos, the unpredictability of a day sometimes just
as valuable for them that they can go through these
paces and this experience that life is different every day.
I look at this like, what a great opportunity to
study their behavior and give them the opportun and give
them the experiences. We were talking to Nicky Boyd a
couple episodes back about pandas and how the behavior and
(20:05):
the work we do for experiences and changing up the environment.
It's like baked in over there to elephants right now
with what's going on. Yeah, and I want to ask
them too with that. We know if you have been
to the Safari Park recently, you know there's a lot
of construction going on around elephants and we're doing a
whole big area where it's gonna be so cool with
the education and knowledge and the experiences our guests get
to have when this new area is done. What about
(20:27):
the elephants. Are the elephants get anything new also with
all that's going on there, because I know part of
the yard is being read to cool going on something
because I'm a yeah, so what's going on to the
elephants on their side of it?
Speaker 3 (20:37):
Once this constructions give us a chiefe make.
Speaker 5 (20:42):
So the elephants are going to get a bunch of
new stuff. So we're actually redoing an entire barn and
holding yard area for them, so they'll have plenty of
new opportunities for training in those. But they're also getting
new planters out in the yards which are going to
help with grading. Our yards have been very tiered for
a long time, so there are ways of kind of
(21:04):
changing that so that it's more flat ground for them
to walk on.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Oh, that's going to do.
Speaker 5 (21:08):
Yeah. And then they're also getting increased water options and
feeding options as well as two new watering holes or pools.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Oh really, yeah, it's the best, especially.
Speaker 5 (21:21):
A good pool party, our whole the whole yeah, cool party. Yeah.
We generally have Swazi in there with all of the kids.
So Swazi our matriarch. She is quite the leader of
the kind of a little rough sometimes she doesn't know
how crazy she can get. All of them want to
(21:41):
play with their own.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
We'll have that relative.
Speaker 5 (21:43):
Yeah, it just goes a little too hard, maybe goes
too much.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
But I know we're all so excited. It's great to
the elephants are.
Speaker 4 (21:49):
Going to have these wonderful newer experiences, right, and the
guests can experience.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Let's say exactly. I think it's important for our audience
to know that a whole sorts of new stuff coming
for elephants in twenty twenty five. An eye out on
the website, but were press releases and stuff. Of course,
once we get closer to opening and all that. But
it's just been amazing to watch that site change over
the last eighteen months or so and knowing it's coming
up soon. So we're pretty excited about that. That's all
(22:14):
looking forward. I want to take a moment, Megan, if
you don't mind, and look back. A lot of our
listeners are families with kids who want to do what
we do. They want to be participating in the zoo
or conservation or veterinarian work or at the safari park,
and there's different interests. Like all of us here at
the table, we all have different interests in what our
passions in love, but we are all together doing the
same type of work. What was your background? If I
(22:36):
can ask to maybe there's a kid out there that
can see themselves on your path, the path you took
to be the lead. There's a far park for nowhere, right, Yeah.
Speaker 5 (22:45):
Hello, little Megan's out there.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Oh my god, I love it so far. You won me.
Speaker 6 (22:51):
So.
Speaker 5 (22:51):
I studied animal science in college. I didn't know where
I wanted to go with that. I just knew I
wanted to work with animals. I tried a bunch of
internships and I ended up at a volunteer research position
at the Institute for Conservation Research, and I just fell
in love with this organization and what they do and
how they are trying to learn as much as they
can about the animals that they have. So fast forward
(23:15):
a few years and there was a part time associate
position and elephants open, and I thought, great way to
get my foot in the door. I'll just spend some
time with them and then get over to the Institute.
I don't need to be in this animal care part.
Turns out, I love elephants. They're amazing. I stayed and
so I've kind of worked my way up and into
(23:35):
this lead position, and I'm so excited to be here.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
Yeah, that's awesome. That's awesome, and it's a great example.
We've talked about it before with the other people we
asked that question too. It's you know, and our stories
to how sometimes you don't even know getting away your
passionate lies until you're exposed to it. And I think
it's important for people to understand it's that you didn't
know for sure what exactly you wanted to, but you
wanted some of the animals, so you've followed that down.
(23:58):
You studied it in college internships to follow through and
you're like, oh, I'm just going to go to elephants
for a little bit. It's just another thing to get experienced,
and it's like, oh, no, I'm home. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (24:07):
And what was so special about elephants is, you know,
I'm very research oriented. I love the research we do here,
and what I found with elephants is we do a
lot of research at the park with our herd. You know,
whether it's studying callers and how they fit an elephant
so that they can be used in the wild, whether
it's how much they're walking. There's a lot of different
(24:27):
things that we've done here at the park that is
so special and so important. It gives me that sense
of I get to be outside, I get to work
directly with elephants, but I also get to feel like
I'm making an impact.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Yeah, that's the both world's right. I just want to
mention real quick. You talked about the caller fitting back
in two thousand and nine when I was first doing
ambassador work for the organization after being a wild left
care specialist, we had partnered with elephants without Borders, and
just so our audience understands, it's a ginormous caller with
a satellite tracker on the back and allows researchers to
better understand herd movements, herd and amos and what kind
(25:00):
of space and land use these animals have, because otherwise
when we see them, we see them right, and it's
so cool. I agree with the walking trackers we've had
here at the Callers, et cetera. Our elephants because to
what we talked about earlier, they participate in their own care.
We can fit these things on and see how they fit.
How's it going to be annoying to the animal, So
once it's deployed in the wild, we know best practices
are already being applied for that animal and allows our
(25:23):
research to have minimal impact then on that individual while
they're sharing with us what their species needs to survive.
So it's so cool. I completely see why you're passionate
about being with that elephant team because there's so much
work they do that directly impacts and influences the conservation
work that's done around the world.
Speaker 4 (25:39):
It's crazy, right, the one more reason why you support
your locals, he's an aquarius one hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
But Megan, this was awesome. Thank you so much. I
had a really good time learning and talking elephants with you, right.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Yeah, absolutely, Thank you so much for joining us. Megan,
thanks for having me.
Speaker 4 (25:56):
Oh wow, it is always amazing to talk with someone
on a wild life care team.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
I mean, learn so much talking with Megan.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
No, I couldn't agree with you more, my friend, learning
about the way the team works with the elephant herd,
and the way the herd works with the team, the
elephants participating in their own care.
Speaker 6 (26:10):
Ooh, and the story about the tooth that would have
come out and the tooth wigler are you kidding me?
I mean how the team had to collaborate with other
departments to make a specialized elephant tooth wiggling tool.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
And then after all that, after using a tool to
wiggle that tooth, she just pops it out with her
trunk all.
Speaker 3 (26:25):
On her own. No, I would have loved to have
seen that.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
Oh, I know what you mean. That was such a
great story. But in all fairness, that is one of
the great things about the new Elephant Valley area that
will open up later in twenty twenty five. Not only
are the elephants getting all sorts of new stuff like
Megan mentioned, but our guests will have more exposure to
the many stories of care like the tooth wiggler and
conservation happening for elephants right here.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
At the Safari Park exactly exactly right.
Speaker 4 (26:49):
And that's not the only thing that's gonna happen with
their elephant herd at the Safari Park. I mean, this
is gonna be a lot of things to learn about
our partners in Africa and how the collaboration makes a
big difference in conservation successes.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
I got to admit, we are pretty lucky to have
insider information about all that is coming and what's going on,
and I love that we get to share it with
our listeners. It kind of makes me wonder what other
insider information could we share with our listeners.
Speaker 4 (27:12):
Well, you know, amigo, I mean, would it be too
much of a leap to go from talking about the
mighty elephant too talking about the mighty oak?
Speaker 1 (27:20):
Ooh, I don't think that's a big leaf. I mean
both are majestic in their own way, long lived, and
very important to their ecosystems that they live in.
Speaker 4 (27:28):
Well, in that case, I think we should let our
listeners in on the latest breakthroughs and saving some of
the most endangered oak trees that just so.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
Happens to live right here in San Diego County.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
Well, then it sounds like it's been decided. Listeners, be
sure to subscribe and tune into our next episode, in
which we learn more about the tree that throughout history
has symbolized strength and endurance across countless cultures, as well
as providing its own ecosystem for hundreds of other species.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
Now, Marco Went and I'm Rick Schwartz, thanks for listening.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
For more information about the San Diego Zoo and San
Diego Zoo Safari Park, go to SDZWA dot org. Amazing
Wildlife is a production of iHeartRadio. Our supervising producers are
Nikkia Swinton and Dylan Fagan, and our sound designers are
Sierra Spreen and Matt Russell. For more shows from iHeartRadio,
check out the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
(28:26):
listen to your favorite shows.
Hi, I'm Rick Schwartz.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
When els world, I'm Marco went.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to Amazing Wildlife, where we explore unique stories of
wildlife from around the world and uncovered fascinating animal facts.
This podcast is a production of iHeartRadio's Ruby Studio and
San Diego Zoo Wildlife Alliance in international nonprofit conservation organization
which oversees the San Diego Zoo and Safari Park. Marco, honestly,
between the two of us, you are at the Safari
(00:29):
Park a lot more than I am. But when I
was there the other day, I have to admit I
was really impressed with all the work going on for
the elephants, with the updating of the habitat and everything else.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Oh I know.
Speaker 4 (00:39):
I mean, they've done a lot of work in Elephant
Valley so far, and they're still doing so much more.
It's going to be a whole new experience for our
guests when it opens, But the habitat is getting a
full makeover as well.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Yeah, I honestly don't know what I'm more excited about.
I mean, just seeing how our guests are going to
react to this whole new area once it opens, or
how the elephants will interact and react to the renovated habitat.
I know there is more work to be done, but
I cannot wait for this to open.
Speaker 4 (01:04):
I know it's you mean, and I'm also thinking about
how the wildlife care specialists will adapt and you know,
work with the herd. I mean, like, will the elephants
be so excited about the new space that maybe they
don't want to do anything else?
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Right, I know they're planning on having new pools and
water features. Makes me wonder will playtime in the new
pools override doing all the other things or will.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
The new experiences and enrichment be more interesting to them
than the new pool areas.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Yeah, that does make me wonder. And seeing us, everything
our elephants do is pretty much up to them. Do
you think the workday for our staff will be a
lot different once Elephant Valley opens?
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Hmmm?
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Man?
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Maybe?
Speaker 4 (01:38):
I mean, I know from our past episode about matriarchal
groups that when there's an older female in charge of
the group, whoever that matriarch is of the herd will
set the pace.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
For how the elephants interact with the new habitat.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
You know, we got a lot of questions and I
feel like we could just go to the Safari Park
and maybe ask someone. I mean, after all, the team
is there now taking care of the herd while construction
is happening, and I know from previous episodes they do
a lot of really fascinating training and behavior work over there,
even things like elephants participating in their own care.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
Hold on, hold on, did you say we get to
go back to this at Fari Park for this episode?
Speaker 1 (02:12):
I feel like we should. I mean, how else are
we going to find out more about the elephants and
possibly learn more about what's happening with Elephant Valley construction?
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Friend, you don't got to tell me to us. Let's
go to the Safari Park, all right, let's go.
Speaker 5 (02:25):
I am Megan McMahon. I am the lead wildlife care
specialist at Elephants.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Meghan, thank you so much for taking the time. We
are here right now at the Safari Park, and there
is so much going on at this fire park with
our elephants. Anybody who's been here the last year, year
and a half knows that it's just constantly changing over there.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Yeah, Magic, what's happening exactly?
Speaker 1 (02:48):
And having Meghan here allows us to find out what
is going on with the elephant herd here at the
Fari Park. And I think probably the best way to
start this off is, Meghan, can you tell us about
the herd? Who do we have? What are the numbers,
what's the ratio of boys and girls? Who's in charge
all that stuff?
Speaker 5 (03:04):
Yeah, we have eight elephants at the Safari Park. They
arrange in age from thirty three to six years old. Wow,
we've got seven girls, one boy and they are a
matriarticle society. So they are led by Swazi. She is
our dominant female and they all kind of look to her. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
I love that. I remember we interviewed Christy Burtis.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
Right, we're talking about the importance of matierarchy and the
dynamics with that, you know, but if the public's not aware, like,
can you deep to have a little more like, So,
there's someone that's in charge of this herd, right, and
it's always going to be a female.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Can you talk about that little Yeah?
Speaker 5 (03:36):
So in the wild it would be usually the oldest
female and then within their herd is going to be
a lot of related females, a lot of sisters, a
lot of daughters, and then there's going to be some
young boys in there. Those young boys will grow up
with their moms and sisters and eventually move away from
their home herd and find other young boys to learn from.
(03:56):
And that's kind of what we see at the park.
So we have and another two adult females. We have
Indula and I'm Danni. Those three have all had babies
since coming to the park in the early two thousands,
and they have expanded this herd, and we've had young
boys through the years, and those young boys have moved
to different places, and you'll actually see two of them
(04:18):
down at the San Diego Zoo.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
I love that connection.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
Actually, Emma was smiling because while we're getting ready for
the interview, I was pulling out my bag and I
was at the Safari Park and I pulled that little
I called the Safari dirt. It's a certain color, and
I'm looking over the table. Everybody, let me describe what
I'm saying right now, because I'm seeing her phone with
all that Safari dirt all over it and her shoes.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
So not to call her out, but you know, during the.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
Break time, you could always call out the elephant specialist
because they roll in covered it in dirt with big
smiles because you know there's nuances to working with elephants.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Honestly, it's in species.
Speaker 4 (04:49):
I've always wanted to train alongside with you, but with
my behavior background and coming in, I was listening to
a Spider episode, and I love the nuances of so
many types of animals. We went from one of the smallest.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
In the world, true the last episode of Spiders, and
now we're talking at exactly right.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
Now with the largest terrestrial animal. And you just spoke
about some of the social nuances. But it's not only
all that heavy lifting. You guys are working super hard,
by the way, every single day, but there's also like
behavioral nuances you have to think about with an animal
that has all these like highly developed social structures. Right,
Can you talk a little bit about what are there
some of the day to day things you have to
do alongside this awesome herd here at the Safari Park.
Speaker 5 (05:25):
Yeah, So, just like us, things change from the day
to day. Personalities are individuals and they can be really
great with each other one day and want their personal
space the next day.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
So introverts are extroverts, right, Yeah.
Speaker 5 (05:43):
Yeah, we definitely have a few elephants that would rather
just be off to the side and they want to
be with everyone, but they want their own space with it,
so we try to be mindful of those kind of interactions.
We have to move all of our elephants into different
areas every day to do all the cleaning, so we
try to pair them up with elephants that they want
to be with, and we pay attention to the elephants
that they maybe don't want to be with and use
(06:05):
that to our advantage.
Speaker 4 (06:06):
Wow, it's a I mean, I'm making light of it,
but in Spanish you call it the chiefe men like
the gossip of the day, like, oh, she doesn't want
to be alongside with her this morning, so we got
to change it up a little bit. I know, making
light of it, but no, really, you're really looking into
those nuances in behavior. And it makes me think of
a question I've always wondered about the team with elephants,
because it depends on what species we're training with, whether
it's the park or the San Diego Zoo. But further specialists,
(06:29):
are a specialist assigned a certain individual elephant, or can
each specialist work each individual animal because they know there's
sometimes nuances with training.
Speaker 5 (06:37):
Right, so all of our specialists can work all of
our elephants, but we do have teams for each elephant,
So one elephant may have four specialists that do more
of the specific training. So whether it's a husbandry behavior
or learning a new behavior, those four people focus with
that animal on those behaviors gotta go and then once
(06:59):
the behaviors are trains, they kind of open up to
everyone else, so everyone else will then be able to
do those behaviors as well. It also gives us an
opportunity because we have eight elephants and there's a lot
going on. Four people know exactly how that elephant is
on the day to day. They know what's normal, they
know what's abnormal, and we can fine tune that and
see things a little sooner because those four people are
(07:22):
paying attention more closely to that specific elephants behavior.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Yeah, it gives an opportunity for them to know those
little subtle things in the body language. Right, they're kidding, right,
And I think a lot of people who don't work
with animals don't realize how much communication happens from the
animal to us, right, because we're so versed in what
is the normal stance, what's the normal pace, what's a
normal maneuvering around food sources or interacting with each other
versus what's a little bit often different than reading that
(07:47):
body language. You had mentioned though, that you've got a
team of four, for example, working with one individual training
a new behavior of some sort. I want to lean
in a little bit on our training that we do here.
I remember back when I was in college, way back
in the nineties, when they first started doing protective contact
work here, which was unheard of with elephants. It was
(08:08):
something that was looked at like, Okay, well, this is
how we do marine mammals and water when the people
can't be in there with them. So it was adapted
and changed, and now it's just how we do things here.
We are thirty some years later, and it's really so
cool to see how our teams can work. I would
love for you to explain, perhaps to our audience, what
is protective contact training and how does that work? And
(08:30):
I know for you you had mentioned before you were talking,
you've been here eight years. You know you're working with elephants.
For you, this is just how we work with elephants.
And I think a lot of people who might have
like a dog at home, we're be like, Okay, I
got to push on some butt to make it sit
and train that vine. That's not something you guys are doing.
This is completely different. So yeah, expand on that for
me if you would.
Speaker 5 (08:46):
Yeah. So, protective contact means that we always have a barrier,
whether it's steel bars or large wire cables. There's always
something between us and the animal, right, and that's a
lot for our safety, but it's also for them. If
we have something that separates us from the animal, they
have full choice to participate with us. We call it
a trust based training style, and what that means is
(09:10):
they can choose to interact with us. If they choose,
they can get reinforced, which is given something that they want, food, scratches, water,
They get a reinforcer for participating with us. And then
from there we can encourage and shape new behaviors. So
by training them to present a foot, we can look
(09:31):
at their feet and we don't need to go in
with them and force them to show us the bottom
of their feet because they'll willingly offer it. Same for
a lot of other behaviors. We can train them to
turn around so we can look at their tail, we
can look at their teeth, their tusks. There are a
lot of different behaviors that we have trained so that
we don't have to force them to do anything. They
(09:52):
can participate in their own healthcare.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Yeah, and I think one of my favorites you mentioned
the healthcare. You mentioned you know that you want to
look at the rump and their train to turn around.
They could walk away if they want going to make
But the one that got me when I first saw
years and years ago was a blood draw needles. I
can handle it. I'm not going to pass out, but
I'm going to look the other way while they're sticking
to me, and I'm like, I just breathe through it.
Breathe through it. You're fine. And here's an elephant. You guys,
(10:17):
ask it to step up, turns its side till you
put its ear through the slot. Nothing's restrained. And because
you have high value, it wants reward. They're like, yeah,
go ahead, put the needle in. Take some blood out
of my ear. Because when we do go behind the ears,
because it's very vascular, very easy to do. So explain
a little bit about the rewards system. Obviously, they have
food out on habitat, there's water out on habitat, they
(10:40):
have the opportunity to get everything they need both. Does
every elephant is it apple? Is it yeah? Or is
everybody different? Does everyone have That's a great question.
Speaker 5 (10:50):
So we do tend to use a lot of alfalfa
pellet and produce as our reinforcers. They don't get a
ton of that out in the yard, but they do
have hay out in the yard. They have water, like you.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Said, yeah, which is fun to play with, enjoyable.
Speaker 5 (11:05):
So they usually know that when we're around there's these
extra reinforcers. These extra produce extra pellet that they wouldn't
get otherwise unless they wanted to spend.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Some time with us these opportunities.
Speaker 5 (11:16):
Yeah. We can also use other factors environmental or social
as reinforcers as well. So if it's really hot and
we're training them in an area that's warm, sometimes a
reinforcer is just moving them to a shade spot to
continue their session. If it's environmental or if it's social,
if we can plan those into our sessions, we can
use those extra reinforcers, and it helps motivate them because
(11:40):
they know they do this hard thing, they get to
go do something else. They get to play in water.
So we try to make sure that we are setting
them up for their training session so that we can
give them something they really like in the end.
Speaker 4 (11:53):
And to really just stress the nuance of that, like
you guys were talking about, just protect the contact.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
And animals can easily just walk away.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
And it reminds me like free flight bird training. They
could easily just go yeah, no, I'm going to go
this way.
Speaker 4 (12:05):
But there's a lot of nuance establishing the necessity the
desire for these reinforcers. And again, like it could be
a shady spot, it could be like a cool pool
for a castory as an example to you. So there's
a lot of nuances see that. And earlier, like you
were talking about those subtleties we look at right with
certain species, Like I know, I'm more of a bird
heavy background. So if I see a bird, maybe ruffle
it's feather, there's a certain way and cock its head
(12:25):
and like dilate its people like that.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Can mean a good thing or a bad thing.
Speaker 4 (12:29):
But I'm wondering with elephants, can you describe some unique
communications that they do that you kind of look for.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
What's one on one elephant communication.
Speaker 5 (12:37):
That you look out, So you're looking at overall body
posture and overall what their head is looking like is
going to be their primary. So are their ears relaxed,
are their eyes relaxed? What's their trunk like? We do
trunk targeting here at the park, and that's something that
we rely pretty heavily on for identifying how they're feeling.
If they're super tense, that trunk is going to be
(12:58):
a lot more tense. It's not going to be a fluid, nice,
relaxed muscle. It's going to be contracted and tense. So
we can look at that kind of thing. If they're
not willing to trunk target with us, maybe today is
not the day that we ask for that blood. Maybe
we just do an approximation and see how they do
with that and reinforce that. So sometimes we walk into
a session and we may not do the blood collection
(13:21):
the folk care. We may just pretend like we're going
to do it and then reinforce them for participating. If
behaviorally they're looking a little off, and behaviorally off could
be anything from ear flaring to backing away from us.
They could be rumbling or making a lot of vocalizations
like they're communicating with someone else. So all of that
were kind of keeping in mind for when going into
(13:43):
a session.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
That's awesome.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
I love that you may even kind of pretend you're
go into a session here, but kind of keep easy
that day, like to make it a little funny, Like
I sometimes want to sleep in the weekend, Okay, Kobe,
My husband will wake up extra early, take care of
all the chores, and he just lets me just ease
into my morning because you know it's going to be
a rough day for me.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
To appreciate that.
Speaker 4 (14:01):
So I love that you're looking at those really subtle
things every single day, because every day.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Is a little different's a little different. Yeah, I want
to go back to what you said to Megan about
participating in the session. You know, we've talked about how
particular contact they can walk away if they want, so
clearly they're choosing to participate. One of the things we
talk about often in our tours or with our guests
is how the animals participate in their own care. We've
touched on the blood draw that's done by the ear,
We've touched on looking at their feet. What is some
(14:29):
of the actual care that the elephants participate in. What
does that mean and what does that look like.
Speaker 5 (14:34):
One of the most exciting ones for me that I
was involved in was elephants grow. They have six sets
of teeth their whole life. They grow like a conveyor belt,
and the old one will chip away and fall out
as a new one grows in. And we had one
elephant whose new tooth was growing in, but the old
tooth wasn't growing out, so instead of growing out and shipping,
it was turning. So now she had a crooked tooth
(14:56):
that could potentially impact the way the new tooth grows
in because it doesn't have a clear way in. So
what we've trained them to do is open their mouth,
let us look at their teeth, and we just took
that a step farther, so we started manipulating the tooth,
touching the tooth, doing this in areas where her tusks
could rest nicely on a bar so there was a
(15:16):
nice safe space underneath. And then we actually were able
to present what we called a tooth wiggler, which was
basically a tool that our veterinarians created that we could
put on either side of the tooth and practice wiggling it.
So we were able to do that daily and just
start kind of helping that tooth loosen up. And it
took about a month, but she eventually during one of
(15:39):
these sessions just pulled her tooth out. It was CRISI,
so we were wiggling it. She stepped away, removed the tooth,
through it on the ground, and then continued with her session,
trunk into her mouth, pulled it.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Out, and then just tossed it aside. Since yeah, it
was so but that's just.
Speaker 5 (16:02):
Like a really fun, wild one of what we can.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Do where it's a great example just keep going.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
It.
Speaker 4 (16:08):
Also, just kudos to the veterinary team, right, yeah this
week happen to be veterinary technician.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
The nuance that they developed this thing.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
The tooth wiggler. I mean you kidding. I mean, just
for this specific scenario, that's great team.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
But I just feel like, as you're going into that
training session discussing who's going to be doing what parts,
someone had to volunteer. I get to be the tooth
fair today I would have said.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
No money under the pillow.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
But it's just like that's awesome, that's so cool, And
again it really we hear that term in our zoo
world and animal care world participating in their own care.
What a great story that not only shows that the
animals choosing to allow you to manipulate a tooth that
isn't sitting right. Anybody who sattle loose cheese can remember
or has a kid dealing with a loose tooth. It
(16:55):
can be very uncomfortable scary. But to allow for that
to happen, for us to go in there with a
specialized tool and then to finally go, you know what,
I think it's loose enough. I'm going to go ahead
and take it out, and then I'm gonna pull back
up from my reward.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
Yeah, I love Yeah.
Speaker 5 (17:08):
Yeah. Trunks are amazing.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
They can really do.
Speaker 5 (17:10):
It's a hands so watching them use that in this
way was really exciting. And also watching her run to
every one of those sessions, so she never showed any
latency or hesitancy to go into a session. We did
it in the same spot every day, which isn't ideal
for us. We like to be variable and change the predictability.
But in this case that there wasn't a ton of
(17:31):
places we could get her mouth in that spot, but
every day running to that spot ready to go. She
loved lettuceheads, so that was a huge reinforcer for her,
So being able to throw that in her mouth after
she was glad to go, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
That is so cool.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
I know, I love that. That's amazing.
Speaker 4 (17:48):
And also, like earlier, you kind of mentioned sometimes you
have to do work with the younger elephants, right, and
you mentioned maybe moving away from mom a little bit
to focus, because I remember seeing a session once where.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Just the little youngsters trying to learn how to use
their trunk.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
That alone is a challenge, you know.
Speaker 4 (18:03):
And just I love the building of the relationships and
the trusted let them learn how to participate in that care,
which is really really great. I was thinking, like what's
going on right now? All the change is happening. You know,
what are your favorite like day to day? You know,
describe a quick day for me as an elephant specialist
here at the Safari Park.
Speaker 5 (18:17):
So right now, we're working really heavily with the construction
team to make sure that they're able to accomplish what
they need while we're able to give the elephants what
they need. So it's a lot of give and take
and a lot of just compromise sometimes. But it's been
really great to watch the elephants through the process, because
we have to give them so much credit for working
together and having such a good social structure because no
(18:40):
matter what we've thrown at them, whether it's a boom
lift that has to move a container in the other yard,
they have not had serious reactions to pretty much anything
we've thrown at them. They gather up, they circle up,
just like they would in the wild. They've tried to
protect their little calves, and then they calm down because
they have each other. So with this construction and minds,
(19:02):
it's hard to say what's a day to day because
every day.
Speaker 4 (19:06):
It highlights again like the importance of those relationships, of
all the background and training, like to our episode of
the Gorilla movie.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
You remember with Franklin Monroe.
Speaker 4 (19:14):
And how they saw the balloon, all these little sites
and sounds that normally happen in the zoo environment. But
again with that trust, with that strength and training that
they get by it just fine.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
So that's great.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
You had mentioned the compromise in working with the construction
team and what they need versus what the elephants need,
and that they will go into an alert circle at
times as things are changing with the construction. But then
it relax back down. I mean, yes, in animal care
sometimes consistency of schedule things like that and day to
day routines are important. But also I know here at
Safari Park talking with a lot of the staff, like
(19:43):
with the rhinos, the unpredictability of a day sometimes just
as valuable for them that they can go through these
paces and this experience that life is different every day.
I look at this like, what a great opportunity to
study their behavior and give them the opportun and give
them the experiences. We were talking to Nicky Boyd a
couple episodes back about pandas and how the behavior and
(20:05):
the work we do for experiences and changing up the environment.
It's like baked in over there to elephants right now
with what's going on. Yeah, and I want to ask
them too with that. We know if you have been
to the Safari Park recently, you know there's a lot
of construction going on around elephants and we're doing a
whole big area where it's gonna be so cool with
the education and knowledge and the experiences our guests get
to have when this new area is done. What about
(20:27):
the elephants. Are the elephants get anything new also with
all that's going on there, because I know part of
the yard is being read to cool going on something
because I'm a yeah, so what's going on to the
elephants on their side of it?
Speaker 3 (20:37):
Once this constructions give us a chiefe make.
Speaker 5 (20:42):
So the elephants are going to get a bunch of
new stuff. So we're actually redoing an entire barn and
holding yard area for them, so they'll have plenty of
new opportunities for training in those. But they're also getting
new planters out in the yards which are going to
help with grading. Our yards have been very tiered for
a long time, so there are ways of kind of
(21:04):
changing that so that it's more flat ground for them
to walk on.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Oh, that's going to do.
Speaker 5 (21:08):
Yeah. And then they're also getting increased water options and
feeding options as well as two new watering holes or pools.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Oh really, yeah, it's the best, especially.
Speaker 5 (21:21):
A good pool party, our whole the whole yeah, cool party. Yeah.
We generally have Swazi in there with all of the kids.
So Swazi our matriarch. She is quite the leader of
the kind of a little rough sometimes she doesn't know
how crazy she can get. All of them want to
(21:41):
play with their own.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
We'll have that relative.
Speaker 5 (21:43):
Yeah, it just goes a little too hard, maybe goes
too much.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
But I know we're all so excited. It's great to
the elephants are.
Speaker 4 (21:49):
Going to have these wonderful newer experiences, right, and the
guests can experience.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Let's say exactly. I think it's important for our audience
to know that a whole sorts of new stuff coming
for elephants in twenty twenty five. An eye out on
the website, but were press releases and stuff. Of course,
once we get closer to opening and all that. But
it's just been amazing to watch that site change over
the last eighteen months or so and knowing it's coming
up soon. So we're pretty excited about that. That's all
(22:14):
looking forward. I want to take a moment, Megan, if
you don't mind, and look back. A lot of our
listeners are families with kids who want to do what
we do. They want to be participating in the zoo
or conservation or veterinarian work or at the safari park,
and there's different interests. Like all of us here at
the table, we all have different interests in what our
passions in love, but we are all together doing the
same type of work. What was your background? If I
(22:36):
can ask to maybe there's a kid out there that
can see themselves on your path, the path you took
to be the lead. There's a far park for nowhere, right, Yeah.
Speaker 5 (22:45):
Hello, little Megan's out there.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Oh my god, I love it so far. You won me.
Speaker 6 (22:51):
So.
Speaker 5 (22:51):
I studied animal science in college. I didn't know where
I wanted to go with that. I just knew I
wanted to work with animals. I tried a bunch of
internships and I ended up at a volunteer research position
at the Institute for Conservation Research, and I just fell
in love with this organization and what they do and
how they are trying to learn as much as they
can about the animals that they have. So fast forward
(23:15):
a few years and there was a part time associate
position and elephants open, and I thought, great way to
get my foot in the door. I'll just spend some
time with them and then get over to the Institute.
I don't need to be in this animal care part.
Turns out, I love elephants. They're amazing. I stayed and
so I've kind of worked my way up and into
(23:35):
this lead position, and I'm so excited to be here.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
Yeah, that's awesome. That's awesome, and it's a great example.
We've talked about it before with the other people we
asked that question too. It's you know, and our stories
to how sometimes you don't even know getting away your
passionate lies until you're exposed to it. And I think
it's important for people to understand it's that you didn't
know for sure what exactly you wanted to, but you
wanted some of the animals, so you've followed that down.
(23:58):
You studied it in college internships to follow through and
you're like, oh, I'm just going to go to elephants
for a little bit. It's just another thing to get experienced,
and it's like, oh, no, I'm home. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (24:07):
And what was so special about elephants is, you know,
I'm very research oriented. I love the research we do here,
and what I found with elephants is we do a
lot of research at the park with our herd. You know,
whether it's studying callers and how they fit an elephant
so that they can be used in the wild, whether
it's how much they're walking. There's a lot of different
(24:27):
things that we've done here at the park that is
so special and so important. It gives me that sense
of I get to be outside, I get to work
directly with elephants, but I also get to feel like
I'm making an impact.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Yeah, that's the both world's right. I just want to
mention real quick. You talked about the caller fitting back
in two thousand and nine when I was first doing
ambassador work for the organization after being a wild left
care specialist, we had partnered with elephants without Borders, and
just so our audience understands, it's a ginormous caller with
a satellite tracker on the back and allows researchers to
better understand herd movements, herd and amos and what kind
(25:00):
of space and land use these animals have, because otherwise
when we see them, we see them right, and it's
so cool. I agree with the walking trackers we've had
here at the Callers, et cetera. Our elephants because to
what we talked about earlier, they participate in their own care.
We can fit these things on and see how they fit.
How's it going to be annoying to the animal, So
once it's deployed in the wild, we know best practices
are already being applied for that animal and allows our
(25:23):
research to have minimal impact then on that individual while
they're sharing with us what their species needs to survive.
So it's so cool. I completely see why you're passionate
about being with that elephant team because there's so much
work they do that directly impacts and influences the conservation
work that's done around the world.
Speaker 4 (25:39):
It's crazy, right, the one more reason why you support
your locals, he's an aquarius one hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
But Megan, this was awesome. Thank you so much. I
had a really good time learning and talking elephants with you, right.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Yeah, absolutely, Thank you so much for joining us. Megan,
thanks for having me.
Speaker 4 (25:56):
Oh wow, it is always amazing to talk with someone
on a wild life care team.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
I mean, learn so much talking with Megan.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
No, I couldn't agree with you more, my friend, learning
about the way the team works with the elephant herd,
and the way the herd works with the team, the
elephants participating in their own care.
Speaker 6 (26:10):
Ooh, and the story about the tooth that would have
come out and the tooth wigler are you kidding me?
I mean how the team had to collaborate with other
departments to make a specialized elephant tooth wiggling tool.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
And then after all that, after using a tool to
wiggle that tooth, she just pops it out with her
trunk all.
Speaker 3 (26:25):
On her own. No, I would have loved to have
seen that.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
Oh, I know what you mean. That was such a
great story. But in all fairness, that is one of
the great things about the new Elephant Valley area that
will open up later in twenty twenty five. Not only
are the elephants getting all sorts of new stuff like
Megan mentioned, but our guests will have more exposure to
the many stories of care like the tooth wiggler and
conservation happening for elephants right here.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
At the Safari Park exactly exactly right.
Speaker 4 (26:49):
And that's not the only thing that's gonna happen with
their elephant herd at the Safari Park. I mean, this
is gonna be a lot of things to learn about
our partners in Africa and how the collaboration makes a
big difference in conservation successes.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
I got to admit, we are pretty lucky to have
insider information about all that is coming and what's going on,
and I love that we get to share it with
our listeners. It kind of makes me wonder what other
insider information could we share with our listeners.
Speaker 4 (27:12):
Well, you know, amigo, I mean, would it be too
much of a leap to go from talking about the
mighty elephant too talking about the mighty oak?
Speaker 1 (27:20):
Ooh, I don't think that's a big leaf. I mean
both are majestic in their own way, long lived, and
very important to their ecosystems that they live in.
Speaker 4 (27:28):
Well, in that case, I think we should let our
listeners in on the latest breakthroughs and saving some of
the most endangered oak trees that just so.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
Happens to live right here in San Diego County.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
Well, then it sounds like it's been decided. Listeners, be
sure to subscribe and tune into our next episode, in
which we learn more about the tree that throughout history
has symbolized strength and endurance across countless cultures, as well
as providing its own ecosystem for hundreds of other species.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
Now, Marco Went and I'm Rick Schwartz, thanks for listening.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
For more information about the San Diego Zoo and San
Diego Zoo Safari Park, go to SDZWA dot org. Amazing
Wildlife is a production of iHeartRadio. Our supervising producers are
Nikkia Swinton and Dylan Fagan, and our sound designers are
Sierra Spreen and Matt Russell. For more shows from iHeartRadio,
check out the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
(28:26):
listen to your favorite shows.
Hosts And Creators
Rick Schwartz
Marco Wendt
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