September 27, 2024 • 36 mins
International Vulture Awareness Day was earlier this month, so hosts Rick and Marco are speaking to Kim Caldwell, wildlife care supervisor at San Diego Zoo Wildlife Alliance, about this incredible bird of prey. Learn more about the San Diego Zoo Safari Park’s partnership with vulture rehabilitation organization Vulpro and how they are working to protect this misunderstood bird by finding ways to protect vulture populations from poisoning and other dangers. Kim also shares some fun facts about vultures, including their bathing habits and the meaning of a “vulture restaurant.”
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hi, I'm rich Schwartz.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
What else the world? I'm Marco went.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to Amazing Wildlife, where we explore unique stories of
wildlife from around the world and uncover fascinating animal facts.
This podcast is a production of iHeartRadio's Ruby Studio and
San Diego Zoo Wildlife Alliance in international nonprofit conservation organization
which oversees the San Diego Zoo and Safari Park. All Right,
before we get into this episode, I think it's only
(00:30):
fair to warn our listening audience ahead of time. Marco
is ridiculously delighted about today's topic, and in all fairness,
I am too.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Oo, buddy, you better believe I'm excited about this episode.
I mean, you know, not only are we talking about
birds today, but we're gonna be talking about the most
often misunderstood and very important vultures of the world.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Oh yeah, we are definitely flying right into your favorite
topic today. And although this episode does come out in Lateember,
it's only fair to mention that it was inspired by
International Vulture Awareness Day, which was celebrated earlier this month.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
Yeah, that's true, Rick, International Vulture Awareness Day, like other days,
set as side to raise awareness for specific species or
you know, types of animals and in this case vultures.
And it was established in two thousand and nine by
a few groups coming together because they saw the need
to raise international awareness around what was happening to the
vultures of the world.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Now, I love it, absolutely love it when people come
together for a good cause and then others come in
to join them.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
And in this case for vultures, it is truly an
international effort. And since two thousand and nine more people
have come together to support and protect vultures, including a
lot of our wildlife care specialists.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Well, then I guess the old saying really applies here.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Huh, what do you mean birds of.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
A feather flock together?
Speaker 2 (01:52):
I should have seen that.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
I apologize, but you know it totally fits and in fact,
part of that flock that has come together for vultures
works here at the San Diego Zoo Safari Park.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Oh well, then it sounds like we're heading up to
the San Diego Zoo Safari Park again. What a great
way to spend the day.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
I think. So see, all right, Safari Park, here we come.
Speaker 5 (02:14):
I am Kim Caldwell and I am a wildlife care
supervisor in the bird department at the Safari Park.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
This is going to be an amazing day. And you
know why, you guys.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Why Marco, Why could it possibly be an amazing day
for you?
Speaker 4 (02:27):
We are talking vultures and we are one of my
favorite people in the entire Safari Park.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Kim.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
We were just talking about I've known you since I
was a teenager for.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
So long, and I've learned so much from you.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
We can talk about that forever, but today it is
about vultures, right, and it's about a really cool collaboration
that we've had for a lot of years now with
an organization called Volpro.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
And we did an episode right, an.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Episode last season, So anybody listening now who is not
familiar last season, go back to about the same time
of year, because this is also time of her.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
For International Vultural Awareness Day, September seventh, so and.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
This comes about that same time. I think our episode
last year was around September eighth or so. We interviewed Jenna.
We talked at length about the importance of vultures in
the environment, why we need to save them, what's going
on with some of them, and specifically about this organization
called Volpro that's in South Africa, and I remember, Kim,
I know you know a lot about this, and we're
(03:19):
about to tell our audience why you know a lot
about this. The work they do there for injured birds
to keep them alive and a lot of them to breed,
release chicks back out, and the wild ones are old
enough to take care and rehabit sent back out. Those
can be sent back out. Our staff goes there a
lot to help because we have so much knowledge about
incubation and care. But sitting down his room, I just
found out something fascinating that I want our audience to know. Kim,
(03:42):
what's your history with Volpro?
Speaker 5 (03:45):
I for many years I worked in the behavior department
and I was part of the free flight bird show
we had here at the park and we free flew
several species of vultures. So I have been in the
animal behavior community for many years. So back in twenty
fifteen twenty sixteen, I became aware of Carrie Volter and
(04:06):
Volpro through social media and at the time I was
trying to get to Africa often to work with as
many African species as possible. And I have a real
soft spot in my heart for some of the you know,
hyenas vultures misunderstood.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
That's one I can't think of.
Speaker 6 (04:29):
Maybe maybe that's a whole other episode.
Speaker 5 (04:35):
And so I had some contacts and I had been
volunteering at another facility in South Africa. I became aware
of Volpro and I decided to visit for a few
days on my way back from volunteering with some other
rehab organizations.
Speaker 6 (04:52):
And I was absolutely.
Speaker 5 (04:54):
Blown away by the organization that Carrie had built and
the work they were doing. And before where I left,
i'd already signed myself up to return in twenty seventeen
to volunteer, and the organization supported.
Speaker 6 (05:08):
Me by allowing me the time to go over the
Fari Park. So I went over.
Speaker 5 (05:14):
On my own and I spent almost a month at
vole Pro volunteering and was just blown away by the
level of scientific research, rehabilitation release, and the breeding efforts
that Carrie was putting into these non releasable birds.
Speaker 6 (05:31):
So when I came back from that trip, I had
lots of pictures and.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Videos and I remember, by the way, so I just
remember stories, right, yes.
Speaker 5 (05:45):
And what's amazing about our organization is that we do
have so many collaborative efforts with field projects all over
the world that are on the ground working with communities
to save animals and to mitigate all the different issues
that some animals and conflicts with people. So I came
(06:05):
and talked to our curator staff, and I just thought
it was worth asking if there was any way that
our organization could support this one, because we have so
many specialists here at the park that have decades of
experience with California condors and Ian condors and all the
different African species that we work with here that we
(06:27):
have been successfully breeding and either puppet raising or supporting the.
Speaker 6 (06:33):
Parent vultures to raise.
Speaker 5 (06:34):
So I walked into a meeting with the curators just
hoping that there was even the slightest possibility. And that's
what I love about this organization is that they then
ran with it. So at that point, within that first year,
we already sent two specialists to work with volpro and
start that partnership.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
And like, think about that for a second, especially if
there's any wildlife care specialists listening, which I hope you are,
But the fact that you took the initiative and created
an amazing program that's been lasting for years, and correct
me if I'm wrong, But originally it was a little
more focus of a rehabilitation scenario. They were getting these
injured vultures in the area, could be electrocution, possibly power lines,
think you maybe poisoning, and they would help recoup these
(07:17):
animals and then re release them. And they were dabbling
a little in incubation processes and breeding, right, And that's
kind of where maybe the Safari Park could really to
your point, all the experience we've had different species really
help out with that, yes.
Speaker 5 (07:29):
Because it's one thing to rehabilitate and release these birds. Well, sadly,
there are way too many that are non releasable because
of permanent injuries.
Speaker 6 (07:41):
So as Carrie saved.
Speaker 5 (07:43):
Vultures she released, I think she is able to release
about sixty five percent of the birds that come into
their care. They have a vet clinic now, they have
vets that come to the property, so they do everything
they can to be able to release birds. But there
are hundreds that are non releasable set up in excellent
habitats and they started breeding on their own. So you
(08:06):
give them nest material, you give them the area to
feel comfortable and the food and all the support, and
the vultures started to breed So then Carrie then launched
into getting incubators. Talking to people that are specialists around
the world in the United States and the UK, she
got all the information that she could for setting up
incubators and starting to incubate and hatch out chicks, and
(08:29):
then that also became another kind of wing of what
Volpro does is to be able to try to release
as many birds that are hatched and raised on volproproperty
as possible. Now they're releasing birds and as many as
can't be released or.
Speaker 6 (08:46):
Set up for breeding of a number of different species.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
That's amazing.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
I want to go back real quick. Actually there's two
things I want to touch on. For one, you mentioned
puppet raising, so anybody who's listening is not familiar with
what that means, if you would share what that means audience, Yes.
Speaker 6 (09:01):
I'll try to keep the short Again, I can give.
Speaker 5 (09:06):
Me. One of the challenges with several animals that we
work with here in our organization, vultures being one of them,
is they have a slow reproductive rate. So California condors,
African vultures, these birds produce one chick a year, sometimes
it's every other year, and those offspring aren't mature enough
(09:28):
to breed until they're over five years old, so it's
a very slow reproductive rate. So going back to the
beginning history of the California Condor breeding project and anding condors,
we need to maximize how many birds we can produce
every year. So the coolest thing to me about birds
and what we do here is that you can manipulate
(09:51):
eggs and raising birds in a variety of ways. So
you can, of course have them parent raised, which is
the ultimate, but if you want to produce more than
one chick from a pair a year, you can let
them lay an egg, you can pull that egg, put
it into incubation, then let them lay another egg. Then
(10:13):
they can have to raise that one. Well what do
you do with this other one, Well, you can foster
it under another pair that's really good at raising chicks,
and it doesn't have to be the same species. It
could be an Andean condoor raising California condoors or vice versa.
But if you really need to maximize your production, or
you just run out of parents that are available to
raise that one chick, then we can do our best
(10:34):
to raise them without imprinting them on people so they
know they're a vulture. And so we have puppets for
California condors, for example, and you can see this on
our website, and I'm sure a lot of people are
familiar with this footage of the puppet raising and our
historical photos of puppets and chicks. So it's just part
of the process and part of being able to manipulate
(10:55):
because every single vulture, whether it be California condors right
now or cape vultures in Africa, is so important because
especially with these African vultures, their populations have declined so much.
Speaker 6 (11:08):
We need every vulture.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Yeah, well I want to cover that as well obviously
as we move forward. So you would mentioned you can
pull one egg from a couple and they'll have another egg.
So it's the stimulus of that first egg missing makes
them reproduce again, versus if that egg stayed there, they
would not create a second egg. So there's a value
in that. So the puppet rearing allows us to make
sure the youngster grows up not thinking humans arts parents
or a source of food. When it gets older, we
(11:31):
want them to recognize other birds as being family, not humans.
The other thing, when you're telling a story about how
vulcra and Senego Zoo, while the Flians became partners that
you went there more or less on a whim. You
were in the area for something else. Carrie has a passion.
The person who started this has a passion. She's putting
stuff on social media, but she's doing it on her
(11:51):
own for the most part. You as an individual came
back and said, I like what this individual is doing. Hey,
you guys should check this out to our organization, our
care Like, yeah, that's really cool. She continues with her passion,
collaborating not only with us, but other organizations, doing her research,
doing as much as she can. The reason I want
to point this part of the story out is because
(12:11):
I think it's important for our listeners, especially kids, teenagers,
people in your twenties. It's the individual with the passion
and the idea, and that was Carrie, right. She had
the passion, the idea. You're the individual who saw something
of value and spoke up about it to those who
could help do stuff. And then it went from being
individuals that are empowering each other and themselves to then collaboration,
(12:32):
which is what Mark and I talk a lot on
this podcast. It's no conservation successful with one person doing it,
But that doesn't mean one person can't have an impact.
It was Carrie's passion. One person started this, it was
you bringing it to intention of our organization was Now
we've been collaborating with them for how long? I mean
how many seventeen And I don't expect you to know
this number, but you think about how many times Wildlife
Care specials have been sent back and forth. It's got
(12:54):
to be a ridiculously large amount of people who've gone
back and forth since twenty seventeen in this collab, and
we're not the only organization collaborating with hers. So yeah,
I really feel that you just want to stop for
a second about everything we're talking about and point out
that as individuals, we have power to make a difference
in this world. It sometimes feels like we can't. Then also,
it's that collaborating with others with similar passions are going
(13:16):
to make it happen, and it's such a great part
of the story. So I'm glad you shared that because
I want to take them home to just point out.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
I don't say you really an underdog. And I believe
this episode.
Speaker 4 (13:23):
Is going to air the week after this year's International
Vultural awareness, saying if you're not familiar, this is an
event globally of people organizations over the world to celebrate
these misunderstood animals and now most people know, but really
quickly vultures, they're having a lot of issues. Most guests
are familiar with the issues with lead poisoning California condor
dichlophenic drug being used in Asia that drastically drop the populations.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Can we talk really quickly.
Speaker 4 (13:47):
I know Africa because we're talking volpro and you mentioned
power lines, but poaching is a big deal. There's a
really sad case of vultures being poisoned out there. Can
you describe the scenario, like we got some poachers out
there and maybe they see what happens.
Speaker 5 (14:01):
This is something that when I was going to Africa
before meeting Carrie, I was also involved in some operations
at some other facilities rescuing poison vultures. And this is
really also where educating people comes in, not only people
that visit us here at the park, but in all
of the villages and all of the communities that we're
(14:24):
working in, because here's what a vulture does.
Speaker 6 (14:27):
In Africa. Vultures can soar for hours.
Speaker 5 (14:30):
We know that some vultures have been seen soaring over
twenty five thousand feet.
Speaker 6 (14:37):
They have amazing eyesight.
Speaker 5 (14:39):
So these vultures out in Africa have thousands of square
miles to cover, and they're looking for dead poodu, dead
ward hoogs, dead elephants. So they spread out across the
sky and they spread out often sometimes fifty kilometers away.
Speaker 6 (14:55):
From each other.
Speaker 5 (14:56):
And this picture this sort of network of vultures for
thousands of kilometers. They're looking on the ground. When one
vulture sees a dead animal, they tuck their wings in
and they're suddenly on a descent. The next vulture sees
them do that and they tuck their old. That vulture
saw something. Here we go and it's amazing how fast
(15:16):
you can have five hundred to eight hundred vultures on that.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Dead all different species, all kinds.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
Different.
Speaker 5 (15:26):
And it's not just the vultures, it's also the crown
cranes that want to eat the bugs, and the fly catchers,
all the storks and the jackals, everybody.
Speaker 6 (15:34):
So these vultures tell everyone what's happening.
Speaker 5 (15:37):
Well, if you're a person in Africa and you see
this happen and you don't know that they have great eyesight.
You don't know how high they can fly. What do
you think you think these vultures got here in fifteen minutes.
They knew the elephant was going to die. That is
one of the beliefs and a belief system, is that
(15:59):
the vultures knew.
Speaker 6 (16:00):
That that elephent was going to die.
Speaker 5 (16:02):
They have the clairvoyance, they have the power of foresight.
Speaker 6 (16:06):
So I want that because.
Speaker 5 (16:08):
Maybe I can win the lottery or I can gain
something for myself. So unfortunately, there is trade and animal
parts and vulture brains are one of those parts. So
there are some beliefs that say if you have vulture
brain under your pillow, or you eat it or you
(16:29):
keep it in your pocket, that you will then have
that ability like a lucky rabbit's foot.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
I was just going to say, yeah exactly.
Speaker 5 (16:36):
That has led to in this day and age, with
technology and some of the pesticides and poisons that can
kill very quickly, that if someone kills five hundred vultures
and then can sell the brains like here's your slice
of vulture brain, it can create benefits. So that is
one of the problems. That is the muti trade, which
(16:59):
is the trade in animal parts. And then also the
poaching is another factor but causes the same kind of damage.
And this is not only poisoning eight hundred vultures. It
can be poisoning batchelor eagles, It can poison other carnivores,
and it can even.
Speaker 6 (17:17):
Get lilac breasted rollers and all the little birds.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
The star.
Speaker 6 (17:22):
Cover so many species.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
It's not ap poaching of the vulture, it's approaching of
the rhinos, of the elephants. Then they will poison the
meat of that individual, and that's where the rollout goes
to vultures and everyone else who.
Speaker 6 (17:33):
Just lists the muti trade is poaching bol right.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
So that part with the brains and all that. But
then there's the other thing is approaching of the larger.
Speaker 6 (17:39):
Mammals, tusks and rhino horns.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
So why is it then that the poachers want to
poison the meat of the rhino and elephant after they
take the horn or the tusks.
Speaker 6 (17:51):
It's that early alert system.
Speaker 5 (17:53):
So if you are in Kruger National Park, for example,
you now have rangers who are risking their lives and
work looking very hard every day, dedicating their lives to
protecting the rhino.
Speaker 6 (18:04):
The elephants, and.
Speaker 5 (18:06):
They're out with now technology and vehicles. They're also watching
for the vultures, just like a hyenas watching for the vultures,
because when the hyenas see the vultures go down.
Speaker 6 (18:17):
Bingo, there's something to eat. Well, now the vultures are diving.
Speaker 5 (18:21):
The rangers who are on patrol see the vultures and
if they get there fast enough, they might catch the
poachers retreating with rhino horn elephant tusk. So now if
a poaching team takes a rhino, they just want all
the vultures to be gone at this point, because if
there were no more vultures in the sky, then they
(18:43):
could quietly sneak around and do a lot more damage.
So they are now taking the rhino horn, taking the
elephant tusks, and they're just lacing that carcass with poison
so that they just can wipe out as many vultures
as possible, which also extends to conflict with other carnivores
taking livestock. Unfortunately, these poisons, which some of it is
just pesticides and fertilizers, they're just very.
Speaker 6 (19:06):
Easy to get in this day and age, so it's
just it's easy.
Speaker 4 (19:09):
To do yeah, and it's one of remind listeners to
with it what you're referring to, the slow reproductive rate,
like how that greatly impacts those populations when they day
off of those great numbers.
Speaker 5 (19:17):
You know.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
So, I mean, thank you for describing that sad story.
You know.
Speaker 4 (19:20):
On a lighter note, I remember when you were visiting
Volpro there was a term you were so stoked about
and we were trying to get it to happen here
at the Safari Park years ago, called vulture restaurants.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Do you remember this, Yes, vulture restaurant.
Speaker 4 (19:34):
I'm not talking about your Denny's, you know, your favorite
Mexican taco plays.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Can can you describe vulture restaurant for everyone here?
Speaker 5 (19:41):
That well, one of the ways that we can support
vultures in areas where either poisoned carcasses are too prevalent
for all those reasons we just talked about, but also Marco,
you mentioned diclofenic use. Yes, yeah, And the diklofenic use
has been primarily in countries like India and Nepal because
(20:05):
the diclofenic is an anti inflammatory that helped livestock and
people like me get out of.
Speaker 6 (20:10):
Bed in the morning.
Speaker 5 (20:13):
I'm a big user of inflammatories, right, And unfortunately there
was a huge die off of sometimes over ninety five
percent of the population wet and it took about five
years for scientists from a variety of organizations to figure
out what was happening.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Oh yeah, I read about that.
Speaker 4 (20:30):
They figured out that it destroys the vulture's kidneys in
twenty four hours because their bodies are not able to
properly filter it out of their bloodstream.
Speaker 5 (20:38):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
Yeah, it's so fair.
Speaker 5 (20:39):
It was.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
There was there was a port about it.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
I remember reading.
Speaker 4 (20:41):
I mean when this was in India where they saw
the disappearances of all these vultures again ninety five percent, right, they.
Speaker 6 (20:46):
Were seen case thousands of vultures.
Speaker 4 (20:48):
Things that were going to think about with the removal
vultures in the area, the water starting to getting polluted, straight,
dogs started coming and eating the carcasses.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
I was in the same raid. They started spreading around
the areas.
Speaker 4 (20:58):
And just to remind I know all of listening, No,
but these are the cleanup crew of the world.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Yeah, that's what we mentioned in Jena last time. That's
how important. So we talked about the numbers going down,
the loss of them due to poaching, lossroom, to plasing,
everything else. But for those who don't study like we
do and know what we know, what does that mean?
And to your point, it's the cleanup crew. Jena had mentioned.
The digestive system has the ability to destroy bacterias and
viruses that otherwise would kill another animal, and it just
comes out the other end as bird poop keeps the
(21:24):
waterways clean, everything else. All of that super important to
make sure we don't lose vultures, not just because we're
bird brains and we love them and they're cool, but
they're actually a very very important part of the ecosystem.
But I got to go back to how this started.
You mentioned vultures.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Distracted stage is.
Speaker 5 (21:46):
So in Nepal and India, in some of the national
parks like Chitwan for example, and in Africa. If we
can provide a safe food source for these vultures, especially
near breeding colonies, then we can protect them as best
we can from mass die offs. If you have a
colony of vultures breeding for their season and one parent
(22:11):
from every nest goes and ends up dying on a
poisoned carcass, that's it. You lose the chick and you've
now lost half of your breeding population or more. So
what we can do is we can get a safe
food source. And we do this for California condors by
the way, and all the release so we make sure
they're not an animal that's full of bullets from you know,
(22:32):
some free ranging donkeys and horses and areas, and sadly
they have a bunch of lead shot in them, it
turns out. So we just get safe food so you
can provide a feeding area. Vultures are very shy. Often
it can take days for them to come down to
a carcass. If there's too many feral dogs in India Nepal,
they stay away because those are like jackals. So by
(22:54):
supporting them and giving them free food that's safe, it's
helping to support them and mitigate some of these other
probus problems. And it's also in some places an opportunity
for you to go and sit in a hide, which
is a barrier that's set up so you can sneak
in and be quiet. And there are opportunities for this
in different wildlife ecual tourism all around the world at
(23:16):
this point. And volpro has one where you go in
a building and it's one way glass and you can
take pictures for hours and so you're not disturbing the vultures.
But that really does allow people to see vultures in
a completely different way.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
One hundred percent. I mean, I think it like the vocals.
Speaker 4 (23:33):
People forget that, especially African vultures are very vocal overall.
They're really social animals vultures, and I know we can
talk forever, but when I see the vulture restaurants, it
makes me think of the nuances of like the smaller
vultures versus the larger ones, like the lap of face
coming in and rippling up in the hide. Right then
you can get your smaller hoodage or Egyptian vultures getting
into crevices.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
But they are so good at what they do, right.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
So I want to bring up something that I have
been asked before, and I want to hear your answer.
I know the answer, and we've discussed it as an organization,
But one thing that does come up when we talk
about what you've labeled vulture restaurants or somethlemental feeding is
aren't we just falsely bolstering the population at that point?
If you could address that, because I know what the
real answer is, but I think sometimes that's the initial like, well,
wait a minute, if you've got to go out there
(24:13):
and create these feeding stations for them, then aren't you
actually interfering with the way nature should take its course.
Speaker 6 (24:20):
So if you could touch it, it's a fair point.
Speaker 5 (24:22):
And I think any time we intervene, whether it be
watering holes that are provided for elephants in certain places
or these restaurants, we have to ask that question and
decide go forward feeling confident that it's a good choice.
So going back to that slow reproductive rate, we are
running out of time with these vultures, the same way
(24:44):
we were running out of time with California condors and
we had to take extreme efforts to save the population.
Speaker 6 (24:51):
And we're not done yet.
Speaker 5 (24:52):
So with these vulture restaurants, you know, there's things you
can control, and there's also.
Speaker 6 (24:57):
Education that needs to happen.
Speaker 5 (25:00):
Cat people in their own communities and in different cultures
takes time.
Speaker 6 (25:05):
You need to be respectful, you need to involve them
in the.
Speaker 5 (25:08):
Process, exactly so, because it's so crucial for so many species.
I mean in South Africa, when we look at lappid
faced cultures, we're talking about really less than a thousand
pairs in South Africa of mature adults that can breed.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Which a lot. That's not a lot, I mean, And
there's such an important species because they're the bigger ones,
like what Mark was saying, they're the ones going to
crack up with the heavy carcass first to let everyone
else feed. I mean, it's such an important species.
Speaker 5 (25:35):
So when you're looking at how many birds can get
wiped out and educating people, trying to change lead bullets,
trying to change belief systems through education, then this is
something that.
Speaker 6 (25:51):
Can support the birds in the meantime.
Speaker 5 (25:53):
Another opportunity at these vulture restaurants is to be able
to count vultures and survey popular So when you go
to a volpro's website.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
And alright, amazing, check it out, you guys.
Speaker 5 (26:06):
And you follow our California condors, you see that they
have numbers, they have tags, they have tracking systems. So
at these vulture restaurants, whether they are an opportunity for
people to come view vultures or whether they're on a
property to just feed the vultures and keep them safe,
we can have trail cams set up and we can
take thousands of pictures. This is one of the things
I did in volpro that I love doing is going
(26:28):
through trail cam footage. But you're going to document every
wing tag you In many cases we know this.
Speaker 6 (26:35):
Is a part of a pair on that cliff over there.
Speaker 5 (26:38):
So we can also use it to count vultures and
do surveys. So it's a controlled environment. And at this point,
safe food for vultures that doesn't have lead in it
or poison is saving vultures and it's.
Speaker 6 (26:52):
One of the best things that we can do in
a lot of places. So it's a fair.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Question it and I want to add on to that too.
So much many times we share with people things like
the vulture restlant or the supplemental feeding for California condors,
and what you're looking at is just right now, but
the overall game plan is forty or fifty years long,
because to your point, it's a long reproductive process. I
think the giant pan is a great example something that
(27:16):
when I was a kid was the poster child for
a dangered species, and then as an adult now it's
off that list because forty years of conservation efforts worked
and are continuing to work. Now they're not out of
the woods yet, and same with California condors. It was
one of those things where to what you said, it
was an extreme step of conservation to pull those guys
from the wild to create a breeding program. But now
they're way ahead of the game from where they were
(27:37):
in the nineteen eighties. Again, also not done being saved.
And so to the point of then volpro and these
vulture restaurants, it's a situation where if we don't do
something drastic, they'll be gone and it'll be too late.
So vulture restaurants supplemental feeding. Yes, we're bolstering the population
through doing this, but it's because we'll lose them otherwise,
and it gives us time then to fix the problems
(27:58):
that are challenging them. So I appreciate you're answering that
and pointing that out, because I think too often we
get a glimpse of what is happening right now, and
then the average person say, what that doesn't seem to
make sense. So I want to kind of explain that whole.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Process, and especially with an animal.
Speaker 4 (28:11):
I know sometimes it's hard for the three of us,
it's easy, But when I see a guest get so
excited over a giant pan I want that same love
vulture and everyone listening. They wants you to know that
there's many ways you can support. Please go to the Voltpro.
Their social media is amazing by the way, but also
the Safari Park we're going to be posting. We had
posted some stuff on I that International Vulture Awareness Day.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Come the Safari Park.
Speaker 4 (28:32):
Check out the vultures at African Forest, the California Condors.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
We have West Marsh.
Speaker 4 (28:37):
That's the African tram you guys, which is free for
you every time you enter that. Me and Kitty they
see to kill for SMOs Tramle Africa, Aki and San
Diego Zoo Safari Park.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
So just wanted to point out different ways to support
the voltzas.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
Yes, well, as we're getting closer to wrapping up here,
I know it was funny we were talking how before
we even started recording, like the three of us can
probably talk mit Voltures and I know Kim's got a
million good stories before we wrap it up, I do
want to ask you, hum, is there anything we haven't
touched on that that you would like to share with
our audience, because I know, again for the three of us,
we've known each other for a while. We know our
passions and our stories. I want to share some of
that with our audience. So is there anything that we
(29:12):
haven't touched on yet.
Speaker 5 (29:13):
Well, I know we talk about a lot of things
with vultures and how important they are doing their job.
Speaker 6 (29:18):
And I would challenge everyone who has never.
Speaker 5 (29:21):
Really looked across the twenty three different species of vultures
in the world to really look at them outside of
that job, because I feel that one of the reasons
that the perception about vultures being gross and dirty is
because often you see them in an amazing documentary and
(29:42):
it shows.
Speaker 6 (29:43):
Them oside and there's blood and guts everywhere, and it's gross.
But vultures and hyenas, by the way, love fresh water.
They love to bathe. And I will tell you I have.
Speaker 5 (29:59):
Worked with golden eagles and bald eagles and a variety
of vultures, and vultures are just as clean as a
golden eagle. As a matter of fact, I will see
an African vulture bathe way more than a golden eagle will.
But when if you stop so, you also hear the
bald is beautiful, and it is. But not all vultures
(30:19):
are bald. Go find the white headed vulture, which is
an African species. They have a beautiful head of white feathers.
The feathers on their body are very similar to African
eagles like the crowned eagle. They are absolutely beautiful. The
scenarios vulture, which I know, is when they look like
a big boofy baby gold eagle.
Speaker 6 (30:42):
So they are beautiful.
Speaker 5 (30:43):
And probably one of my favorite things about them is
how much they bathe.
Speaker 6 (30:48):
They're ridiculous in water, taken a bath so they are clean.
And they are amazing parents.
Speaker 5 (30:56):
And I mean I cannot not get choked up when
I watch video or see in person at volpro of
a cape vulture pair. And we do have a pair
here that we get all sorts of video and film footage.
When they're raising their chicks, they are like beautiful dragons.
They are extremely devoted parents. They are very loving to
(31:18):
their chicks. I mean, nobody's getting to that chick first
of all. And not only can you watch condor cam
every year, you can sometimes see a chick hatch under
the parents and go through the entire growth. They cuddle
with their chicks, they preen their chicks. They actually sometimes
kind of steal the chick from each other. So we've
had California condo. We had a great situation this year
(31:42):
where we had a female California condor laying an egg
and as the egg was literally falling out of her,
the male it's like I got it.
Speaker 6 (31:51):
And he's like it, and then they swap over. They
share all the duties. So if people that value.
Speaker 5 (31:56):
Family and parents and good parenting and devotion to a
baby the way that they'll watch cheetahs in lines, which
I the Yeah, if you just take a minute and
look at some of the species, maybe you'll find one
you finds beautiful. Yeah, And if you can find there's
so much social media out there with videos, whether it's
from our organization or Volpro, it's.
Speaker 6 (32:19):
Just you'll fall in love with them, You really will.
Speaker 5 (32:21):
If you just take it out then look at their
beautiful faces and eyes, you'll totally agree.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
Well to your point, Kim, I know we brought well. Yeah,
definitely well said, And to your point about paying attention,
and you may be surprised what you fall in love.
Was when I first went into college and caring for
exotic animals, I was all about big cats. That's all
I wanted I saw that was where I was going
to just work with big cats. And then quite by
just a weird circumstance, Someone's like, hey, you want to
(32:48):
come hang out while I feed the turkey vulture. I
was like, cool, I yues, I mean I've never seen
a turkey vulture up close. And then for the next
two years of college that was my buddy. We were like, hey,
you know, I learn more about it, learned about ithavior,
learn about how important relationships are to the vulture, how
you had to spend time with them and invest in
that relationship. Yes, when you were accepted, then you were
(33:08):
like the best friend ever.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Remember, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
And yeah, and if you would have told me the
week before starting this program that your best friend going
through this is going to be a tricky vulture. I
don't like birds, you know, but it's true. Once you
learn about these individuals and the species, you can't help
but fall in love with them.
Speaker 6 (33:27):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
Yeah. Speaking of falling in love, do you have a
favorite vulture species, Kim or is it likes me? Because
I know it's tough, but I was wondering, you just
want to stay your heart.
Speaker 5 (33:39):
So at Bolpro, I worked with several species cape vultures,
white back lappet, and a few others. The white back vultures,
they have the sweetest faces. To me, they're very sweet faces.
And I was fortunate enough to help with a crazy
twelve hour, middle of the night drive from the Voltpro
(34:03):
property near Pretoria almost to Namibia to rescue this young
white back vulture who was way off horse. He was
in the desert at this little town and I helped
recover him. I drove him back. I helped recover him,
and he has my heart. He's hopefully still flying somewhere
over Africa. But if you want to look at a
face and fall in love with a white back vulture.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
You heard it here, folks.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
Well, Kim, thank you so much for your time. And
I don't know should we come back next to your
part on this one. Yeah, I know, Kim's got some
great stories.
Speaker 5 (34:37):
Run out of time.
Speaker 6 (34:39):
Thank you, thank you, thank you for giving me the
opportunity our pleasure.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
Well, the passionate love for vultures is truly thick with
the three of us. What an absolute pleasure speaking to Kim.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
I know exactly what you mean, Rick, I mean, I
really wanted to talk with her more and have her
share more of our stories or our audience.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
Okay, well, let's see. Checking over my notes, we need
to schedule a follow up with Adam about crinivorous plants,
and now another follow up with Kim for vulture stories.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
I mean that sounds right to me, you know, carnivorous plants, vultures.
So much more to follow up on, because there is
so much more to learn.
Speaker 5 (35:14):
You know.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
Speaking of following up, Marco, we have had a few
requests come in for an update on an episode we
did back in early July.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
Oh, early July. Okay, all right, well let's see it's
in June. We did an episode about milky storks, right, oh,
and then we did an episode about copy bars at
the zoo there in July. Oh, I know, of course.
Speaker 4 (35:35):
Yeah, we did an episode introducing everyone to our news
residence at the San Diego Zoo, the Giant Pandas.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
Yeah, that's right, Marco. And now that Shinbao and Yu
Schwan have settled in and made themselves at home here
in San Diego, everyone is asking for an update.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
Absolutely love it. That sounds like an awesome idea.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
All right, then it's settled. Be sure to subscribe. And
tune into our next episode, in which we learn more
about the giant Pandas and how they've settled in here
at San Diego Zoo.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
Reck Quick, sure to bring him bampoo with me to
the interview.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
Marco, we aren't gonna interview the bears. We're interviewing someone
who's very familiar with the Pandas.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
All right, I knew that. Well, I'll MARKO what and
I'm Rick Schwartz.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
Thanks for listening. For more information about the San Diego
Zoo and San Diego Zoo Safari Park, go to SDZWA
dot org. Amazing Wildlife is a production of iHeartRadio. Our
supervising producers are Nikia Swinton and Dylan Fagan, and our
sound designers are Sierra Spreen and Matt Russell. For more
(36:37):
shows from iHeartRadio, check out the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Hi, I'm rich Schwartz.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
What else the world? I'm Marco went.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to Amazing Wildlife, where we explore unique stories of
wildlife from around the world and uncover fascinating animal facts.
This podcast is a production of iHeartRadio's Ruby Studio and
San Diego Zoo Wildlife Alliance in international nonprofit conservation organization
which oversees the San Diego Zoo and Safari Park. All Right,
before we get into this episode, I think it's only
(00:30):
fair to warn our listening audience ahead of time. Marco
is ridiculously delighted about today's topic, and in all fairness,
I am too.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Oo, buddy, you better believe I'm excited about this episode.
I mean, you know, not only are we talking about
birds today, but we're gonna be talking about the most
often misunderstood and very important vultures of the world.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Oh yeah, we are definitely flying right into your favorite
topic today. And although this episode does come out in Lateember,
it's only fair to mention that it was inspired by
International Vulture Awareness Day, which was celebrated earlier this month.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
Yeah, that's true, Rick, International Vulture Awareness Day, like other days,
set as side to raise awareness for specific species or
you know, types of animals and in this case vultures.
And it was established in two thousand and nine by
a few groups coming together because they saw the need
to raise international awareness around what was happening to the
vultures of the world.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Now, I love it, absolutely love it when people come
together for a good cause and then others come in
to join them.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
And in this case for vultures, it is truly an
international effort. And since two thousand and nine more people
have come together to support and protect vultures, including a
lot of our wildlife care specialists.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Well, then I guess the old saying really applies here.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Huh, what do you mean birds of.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
A feather flock together?
Speaker 2 (01:52):
I should have seen that.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
I apologize, but you know it totally fits and in fact,
part of that flock that has come together for vultures
works here at the San Diego Zoo Safari Park.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Oh well, then it sounds like we're heading up to
the San Diego Zoo Safari Park again. What a great
way to spend the day.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
I think. So see, all right, Safari Park, here we come.
Speaker 5 (02:14):
I am Kim Caldwell and I am a wildlife care
supervisor in the bird department at the Safari Park.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
This is going to be an amazing day. And you
know why, you guys.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Why Marco, Why could it possibly be an amazing day
for you?
Speaker 4 (02:27):
We are talking vultures and we are one of my
favorite people in the entire Safari Park.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Kim.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
We were just talking about I've known you since I
was a teenager for.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
So long, and I've learned so much from you.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
We can talk about that forever, but today it is
about vultures, right, and it's about a really cool collaboration
that we've had for a lot of years now with
an organization called Volpro.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
And we did an episode right, an.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Episode last season, So anybody listening now who is not
familiar last season, go back to about the same time
of year, because this is also time of her.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
For International Vultural Awareness Day, September seventh, so and.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
This comes about that same time. I think our episode
last year was around September eighth or so. We interviewed Jenna.
We talked at length about the importance of vultures in
the environment, why we need to save them, what's going
on with some of them, and specifically about this organization
called Volpro that's in South Africa, and I remember, Kim,
I know you know a lot about this, and we're
(03:19):
about to tell our audience why you know a lot
about this. The work they do there for injured birds
to keep them alive and a lot of them to breed,
release chicks back out, and the wild ones are old
enough to take care and rehabit sent back out. Those
can be sent back out. Our staff goes there a
lot to help because we have so much knowledge about
incubation and care. But sitting down his room, I just
found out something fascinating that I want our audience to know. Kim,
(03:42):
what's your history with Volpro?
Speaker 5 (03:45):
I for many years I worked in the behavior department
and I was part of the free flight bird show
we had here at the park and we free flew
several species of vultures. So I have been in the
animal behavior community for many years. So back in twenty
fifteen twenty sixteen, I became aware of Carrie Volter and
(04:06):
Volpro through social media and at the time I was
trying to get to Africa often to work with as
many African species as possible. And I have a real
soft spot in my heart for some of the you know,
hyenas vultures misunderstood.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
That's one I can't think of.
Speaker 6 (04:29):
Maybe maybe that's a whole other episode.
Speaker 5 (04:35):
And so I had some contacts and I had been
volunteering at another facility in South Africa. I became aware
of Volpro and I decided to visit for a few
days on my way back from volunteering with some other
rehab organizations.
Speaker 6 (04:52):
And I was absolutely.
Speaker 5 (04:54):
Blown away by the organization that Carrie had built and
the work they were doing. And before where I left,
i'd already signed myself up to return in twenty seventeen
to volunteer, and the organization supported.
Speaker 6 (05:08):
Me by allowing me the time to go over the
Fari Park. So I went over.
Speaker 5 (05:14):
On my own and I spent almost a month at
vole Pro volunteering and was just blown away by the
level of scientific research, rehabilitation release, and the breeding efforts
that Carrie was putting into these non releasable birds.
Speaker 6 (05:31):
So when I came back from that trip, I had
lots of pictures and.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Videos and I remember, by the way, so I just
remember stories, right, yes.
Speaker 5 (05:45):
And what's amazing about our organization is that we do
have so many collaborative efforts with field projects all over
the world that are on the ground working with communities
to save animals and to mitigate all the different issues
that some animals and conflicts with people. So I came
(06:05):
and talked to our curator staff, and I just thought
it was worth asking if there was any way that
our organization could support this one, because we have so
many specialists here at the park that have decades of
experience with California condors and Ian condors and all the
different African species that we work with here that we
(06:27):
have been successfully breeding and either puppet raising or supporting the.
Speaker 6 (06:33):
Parent vultures to raise.
Speaker 5 (06:34):
So I walked into a meeting with the curators just
hoping that there was even the slightest possibility. And that's
what I love about this organization is that they then
ran with it. So at that point, within that first year,
we already sent two specialists to work with volpro and
start that partnership.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
And like, think about that for a second, especially if
there's any wildlife care specialists listening, which I hope you are,
But the fact that you took the initiative and created
an amazing program that's been lasting for years, and correct
me if I'm wrong, But originally it was a little
more focus of a rehabilitation scenario. They were getting these
injured vultures in the area, could be electrocution, possibly power lines,
think you maybe poisoning, and they would help recoup these
(07:17):
animals and then re release them. And they were dabbling
a little in incubation processes and breeding, right, And that's
kind of where maybe the Safari Park could really to
your point, all the experience we've had different species really
help out with that, yes.
Speaker 5 (07:29):
Because it's one thing to rehabilitate and release these birds. Well, sadly,
there are way too many that are non releasable because
of permanent injuries.
Speaker 6 (07:41):
So as Carrie saved.
Speaker 5 (07:43):
Vultures she released, I think she is able to release
about sixty five percent of the birds that come into
their care. They have a vet clinic now, they have
vets that come to the property, so they do everything
they can to be able to release birds. But there
are hundreds that are non releasable set up in excellent
habitats and they started breeding on their own. So you
(08:06):
give them nest material, you give them the area to
feel comfortable and the food and all the support, and
the vultures started to breed So then Carrie then launched
into getting incubators. Talking to people that are specialists around
the world in the United States and the UK, she
got all the information that she could for setting up
incubators and starting to incubate and hatch out chicks, and
(08:29):
then that also became another kind of wing of what
Volpro does is to be able to try to release
as many birds that are hatched and raised on volproproperty
as possible. Now they're releasing birds and as many as
can't be released or.
Speaker 6 (08:46):
Set up for breeding of a number of different species.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
That's amazing.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
I want to go back real quick. Actually there's two
things I want to touch on. For one, you mentioned
puppet raising, so anybody who's listening is not familiar with
what that means, if you would share what that means audience, Yes.
Speaker 6 (09:01):
I'll try to keep the short Again, I can give.
Speaker 5 (09:06):
Me. One of the challenges with several animals that we
work with here in our organization, vultures being one of them,
is they have a slow reproductive rate. So California condors,
African vultures, these birds produce one chick a year, sometimes
it's every other year, and those offspring aren't mature enough
(09:28):
to breed until they're over five years old, so it's
a very slow reproductive rate. So going back to the
beginning history of the California Condor breeding project and anding condors,
we need to maximize how many birds we can produce
every year. So the coolest thing to me about birds
and what we do here is that you can manipulate
(09:51):
eggs and raising birds in a variety of ways. So
you can, of course have them parent raised, which is
the ultimate, but if you want to produce more than
one chick from a pair a year, you can let
them lay an egg, you can pull that egg, put
it into incubation, then let them lay another egg. Then
(10:13):
they can have to raise that one. Well what do
you do with this other one, Well, you can foster
it under another pair that's really good at raising chicks,
and it doesn't have to be the same species. It
could be an Andean condoor raising California condoors or vice versa.
But if you really need to maximize your production, or
you just run out of parents that are available to
raise that one chick, then we can do our best
(10:34):
to raise them without imprinting them on people so they
know they're a vulture. And so we have puppets for
California condors, for example, and you can see this on
our website, and I'm sure a lot of people are
familiar with this footage of the puppet raising and our
historical photos of puppets and chicks. So it's just part
of the process and part of being able to manipulate
(10:55):
because every single vulture, whether it be California condors right
now or cape vultures in Africa, is so important because
especially with these African vultures, their populations have declined so much.
Speaker 6 (11:08):
We need every vulture.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Yeah, well I want to cover that as well obviously
as we move forward. So you would mentioned you can
pull one egg from a couple and they'll have another egg.
So it's the stimulus of that first egg missing makes
them reproduce again, versus if that egg stayed there, they
would not create a second egg. So there's a value
in that. So the puppet rearing allows us to make
sure the youngster grows up not thinking humans arts parents
or a source of food. When it gets older, we
(11:31):
want them to recognize other birds as being family, not humans.
The other thing, when you're telling a story about how
vulcra and Senego Zoo, while the Flians became partners that
you went there more or less on a whim. You
were in the area for something else. Carrie has a passion.
The person who started this has a passion. She's putting
stuff on social media, but she's doing it on her
(11:51):
own for the most part. You as an individual came
back and said, I like what this individual is doing. Hey,
you guys should check this out to our organization, our
care Like, yeah, that's really cool. She continues with her passion,
collaborating not only with us, but other organizations, doing her research,
doing as much as she can. The reason I want
to point this part of the story out is because
(12:11):
I think it's important for our listeners, especially kids, teenagers,
people in your twenties. It's the individual with the passion
and the idea, and that was Carrie, right. She had
the passion, the idea. You're the individual who saw something
of value and spoke up about it to those who
could help do stuff. And then it went from being
individuals that are empowering each other and themselves to then collaboration,
(12:32):
which is what Mark and I talk a lot on
this podcast. It's no conservation successful with one person doing it,
But that doesn't mean one person can't have an impact.
It was Carrie's passion. One person started this, it was
you bringing it to intention of our organization was Now
we've been collaborating with them for how long? I mean
how many seventeen And I don't expect you to know
this number, but you think about how many times Wildlife
Care specials have been sent back and forth. It's got
(12:54):
to be a ridiculously large amount of people who've gone
back and forth since twenty seventeen in this collab, and
we're not the only organization collaborating with hers. So yeah,
I really feel that you just want to stop for
a second about everything we're talking about and point out
that as individuals, we have power to make a difference
in this world. It sometimes feels like we can't. Then also,
it's that collaborating with others with similar passions are going
(13:16):
to make it happen, and it's such a great part
of the story. So I'm glad you shared that because
I want to take them home to just point out.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
I don't say you really an underdog. And I believe
this episode.
Speaker 4 (13:23):
Is going to air the week after this year's International
Vultural awareness, saying if you're not familiar, this is an
event globally of people organizations over the world to celebrate
these misunderstood animals and now most people know, but really
quickly vultures, they're having a lot of issues. Most guests
are familiar with the issues with lead poisoning California condor
dichlophenic drug being used in Asia that drastically drop the populations.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Can we talk really quickly.
Speaker 4 (13:47):
I know Africa because we're talking volpro and you mentioned
power lines, but poaching is a big deal. There's a
really sad case of vultures being poisoned out there. Can
you describe the scenario, like we got some poachers out
there and maybe they see what happens.
Speaker 5 (14:01):
This is something that when I was going to Africa
before meeting Carrie, I was also involved in some operations
at some other facilities rescuing poison vultures. And this is
really also where educating people comes in, not only people
that visit us here at the park, but in all
of the villages and all of the communities that we're
(14:24):
working in, because here's what a vulture does.
Speaker 6 (14:27):
In Africa. Vultures can soar for hours.
Speaker 5 (14:30):
We know that some vultures have been seen soaring over
twenty five thousand feet.
Speaker 6 (14:37):
They have amazing eyesight.
Speaker 5 (14:39):
So these vultures out in Africa have thousands of square
miles to cover, and they're looking for dead poodu, dead
ward hoogs, dead elephants. So they spread out across the
sky and they spread out often sometimes fifty kilometers away.
Speaker 6 (14:55):
From each other.
Speaker 5 (14:56):
And this picture this sort of network of vultures for
thousands of kilometers. They're looking on the ground. When one
vulture sees a dead animal, they tuck their wings in
and they're suddenly on a descent. The next vulture sees
them do that and they tuck their old. That vulture
saw something. Here we go and it's amazing how fast
(15:16):
you can have five hundred to eight hundred vultures on that.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Dead all different species, all kinds.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
Different.
Speaker 5 (15:26):
And it's not just the vultures, it's also the crown
cranes that want to eat the bugs, and the fly catchers,
all the storks and the jackals, everybody.
Speaker 6 (15:34):
So these vultures tell everyone what's happening.
Speaker 5 (15:37):
Well, if you're a person in Africa and you see
this happen and you don't know that they have great eyesight.
You don't know how high they can fly. What do
you think you think these vultures got here in fifteen minutes.
They knew the elephant was going to die. That is
one of the beliefs and a belief system, is that
(15:59):
the vultures knew.
Speaker 6 (16:00):
That that elephent was going to die.
Speaker 5 (16:02):
They have the clairvoyance, they have the power of foresight.
Speaker 6 (16:06):
So I want that because.
Speaker 5 (16:08):
Maybe I can win the lottery or I can gain
something for myself. So unfortunately, there is trade and animal
parts and vulture brains are one of those parts. So
there are some beliefs that say if you have vulture
brain under your pillow, or you eat it or you
(16:29):
keep it in your pocket, that you will then have
that ability like a lucky rabbit's foot.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
I was just going to say, yeah exactly.
Speaker 5 (16:36):
That has led to in this day and age, with
technology and some of the pesticides and poisons that can
kill very quickly, that if someone kills five hundred vultures
and then can sell the brains like here's your slice
of vulture brain, it can create benefits. So that is
one of the problems. That is the muti trade, which
(16:59):
is the trade in animal parts. And then also the
poaching is another factor but causes the same kind of damage.
And this is not only poisoning eight hundred vultures. It
can be poisoning batchelor eagles, It can poison other carnivores,
and it can even.
Speaker 6 (17:17):
Get lilac breasted rollers and all the little birds.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
The star.
Speaker 6 (17:22):
Cover so many species.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
It's not ap poaching of the vulture, it's approaching of
the rhinos, of the elephants. Then they will poison the
meat of that individual, and that's where the rollout goes
to vultures and everyone else who.
Speaker 6 (17:33):
Just lists the muti trade is poaching bol right.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
So that part with the brains and all that. But
then there's the other thing is approaching of the larger.
Speaker 6 (17:39):
Mammals, tusks and rhino horns.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
So why is it then that the poachers want to
poison the meat of the rhino and elephant after they
take the horn or the tusks.
Speaker 6 (17:51):
It's that early alert system.
Speaker 5 (17:53):
So if you are in Kruger National Park, for example,
you now have rangers who are risking their lives and
work looking very hard every day, dedicating their lives to
protecting the rhino.
Speaker 6 (18:04):
The elephants, and.
Speaker 5 (18:06):
They're out with now technology and vehicles. They're also watching
for the vultures, just like a hyenas watching for the vultures,
because when the hyenas see the vultures go down.
Speaker 6 (18:17):
Bingo, there's something to eat. Well, now the vultures are diving.
Speaker 5 (18:21):
The rangers who are on patrol see the vultures and
if they get there fast enough, they might catch the
poachers retreating with rhino horn elephant tusk. So now if
a poaching team takes a rhino, they just want all
the vultures to be gone at this point, because if
there were no more vultures in the sky, then they
(18:43):
could quietly sneak around and do a lot more damage.
So they are now taking the rhino horn, taking the
elephant tusks, and they're just lacing that carcass with poison
so that they just can wipe out as many vultures
as possible, which also extends to conflict with other carnivores
taking livestock. Unfortunately, these poisons, which some of it is
just pesticides and fertilizers, they're just very.
Speaker 6 (19:06):
Easy to get in this day and age, so it's
just it's easy.
Speaker 4 (19:09):
To do yeah, and it's one of remind listeners to
with it what you're referring to, the slow reproductive rate,
like how that greatly impacts those populations when they day
off of those great numbers.
Speaker 5 (19:17):
You know.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
So, I mean, thank you for describing that sad story.
You know.
Speaker 4 (19:20):
On a lighter note, I remember when you were visiting
Volpro there was a term you were so stoked about
and we were trying to get it to happen here
at the Safari Park years ago, called vulture restaurants.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Do you remember this, Yes, vulture restaurant.
Speaker 4 (19:34):
I'm not talking about your Denny's, you know, your favorite
Mexican taco plays.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Can can you describe vulture restaurant for everyone here?
Speaker 5 (19:41):
That well, one of the ways that we can support
vultures in areas where either poisoned carcasses are too prevalent
for all those reasons we just talked about, but also Marco,
you mentioned diclofenic use. Yes, yeah, And the diklofenic use
has been primarily in countries like India and Nepal because
(20:05):
the diclofenic is an anti inflammatory that helped livestock and
people like me get out of.
Speaker 6 (20:10):
Bed in the morning.
Speaker 5 (20:13):
I'm a big user of inflammatories, right, And unfortunately there
was a huge die off of sometimes over ninety five
percent of the population wet and it took about five
years for scientists from a variety of organizations to figure
out what was happening.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Oh yeah, I read about that.
Speaker 4 (20:30):
They figured out that it destroys the vulture's kidneys in
twenty four hours because their bodies are not able to
properly filter it out of their bloodstream.
Speaker 5 (20:38):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
Yeah, it's so fair.
Speaker 5 (20:39):
It was.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
There was there was a port about it.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
I remember reading.
Speaker 4 (20:41):
I mean when this was in India where they saw
the disappearances of all these vultures again ninety five percent, right, they.
Speaker 6 (20:46):
Were seen case thousands of vultures.
Speaker 4 (20:48):
Things that were going to think about with the removal
vultures in the area, the water starting to getting polluted, straight,
dogs started coming and eating the carcasses.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
I was in the same raid. They started spreading around
the areas.
Speaker 4 (20:58):
And just to remind I know all of listening, No,
but these are the cleanup crew of the world.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Yeah, that's what we mentioned in Jena last time. That's
how important. So we talked about the numbers going down,
the loss of them due to poaching, lossroom, to plasing,
everything else. But for those who don't study like we
do and know what we know, what does that mean?
And to your point, it's the cleanup crew. Jena had mentioned.
The digestive system has the ability to destroy bacterias and
viruses that otherwise would kill another animal, and it just
comes out the other end as bird poop keeps the
(21:24):
waterways clean, everything else. All of that super important to
make sure we don't lose vultures, not just because we're
bird brains and we love them and they're cool, but
they're actually a very very important part of the ecosystem.
But I got to go back to how this started.
You mentioned vultures.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Distracted stage is.
Speaker 5 (21:46):
So in Nepal and India, in some of the national
parks like Chitwan for example, and in Africa. If we
can provide a safe food source for these vultures, especially
near breeding colonies, then we can protect them as best
we can from mass die offs. If you have a
colony of vultures breeding for their season and one parent
(22:11):
from every nest goes and ends up dying on a
poisoned carcass, that's it. You lose the chick and you've
now lost half of your breeding population or more. So
what we can do is we can get a safe
food source. And we do this for California condors by
the way, and all the release so we make sure
they're not an animal that's full of bullets from you know,
(22:32):
some free ranging donkeys and horses and areas, and sadly
they have a bunch of lead shot in them, it
turns out. So we just get safe food so you
can provide a feeding area. Vultures are very shy. Often
it can take days for them to come down to
a carcass. If there's too many feral dogs in India Nepal,
they stay away because those are like jackals. So by
(22:54):
supporting them and giving them free food that's safe, it's
helping to support them and mitigate some of these other
probus problems. And it's also in some places an opportunity
for you to go and sit in a hide, which
is a barrier that's set up so you can sneak
in and be quiet. And there are opportunities for this
in different wildlife ecual tourism all around the world at
(23:16):
this point. And volpro has one where you go in
a building and it's one way glass and you can
take pictures for hours and so you're not disturbing the vultures.
But that really does allow people to see vultures in
a completely different way.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
One hundred percent. I mean, I think it like the vocals.
Speaker 4 (23:33):
People forget that, especially African vultures are very vocal overall.
They're really social animals vultures, and I know we can
talk forever, but when I see the vulture restaurants, it
makes me think of the nuances of like the smaller
vultures versus the larger ones, like the lap of face
coming in and rippling up in the hide. Right then
you can get your smaller hoodage or Egyptian vultures getting
into crevices.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
But they are so good at what they do, right.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
So I want to bring up something that I have
been asked before, and I want to hear your answer.
I know the answer, and we've discussed it as an organization,
But one thing that does come up when we talk
about what you've labeled vulture restaurants or somethlemental feeding is
aren't we just falsely bolstering the population at that point?
If you could address that, because I know what the
real answer is, but I think sometimes that's the initial like, well,
wait a minute, if you've got to go out there
(24:13):
and create these feeding stations for them, then aren't you
actually interfering with the way nature should take its course.
Speaker 6 (24:20):
So if you could touch it, it's a fair point.
Speaker 5 (24:22):
And I think any time we intervene, whether it be
watering holes that are provided for elephants in certain places
or these restaurants, we have to ask that question and
decide go forward feeling confident that it's a good choice.
So going back to that slow reproductive rate, we are
running out of time with these vultures, the same way
(24:44):
we were running out of time with California condors and
we had to take extreme efforts to save the population.
Speaker 6 (24:51):
And we're not done yet.
Speaker 5 (24:52):
So with these vulture restaurants, you know, there's things you
can control, and there's also.
Speaker 6 (24:57):
Education that needs to happen.
Speaker 5 (25:00):
Cat people in their own communities and in different cultures
takes time.
Speaker 6 (25:05):
You need to be respectful, you need to involve them
in the.
Speaker 5 (25:08):
Process, exactly so, because it's so crucial for so many species.
I mean in South Africa, when we look at lappid
faced cultures, we're talking about really less than a thousand
pairs in South Africa of mature adults that can breed.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Which a lot. That's not a lot, I mean, And
there's such an important species because they're the bigger ones,
like what Mark was saying, they're the ones going to
crack up with the heavy carcass first to let everyone
else feed. I mean, it's such an important species.
Speaker 5 (25:35):
So when you're looking at how many birds can get
wiped out and educating people, trying to change lead bullets,
trying to change belief systems through education, then this is
something that.
Speaker 6 (25:51):
Can support the birds in the meantime.
Speaker 5 (25:53):
Another opportunity at these vulture restaurants is to be able
to count vultures and survey popular So when you go
to a volpro's website.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
And alright, amazing, check it out, you guys.
Speaker 5 (26:06):
And you follow our California condors, you see that they
have numbers, they have tags, they have tracking systems. So
at these vulture restaurants, whether they are an opportunity for
people to come view vultures or whether they're on a
property to just feed the vultures and keep them safe,
we can have trail cams set up and we can
take thousands of pictures. This is one of the things
I did in volpro that I love doing is going
(26:28):
through trail cam footage. But you're going to document every
wing tag you In many cases we know this.
Speaker 6 (26:35):
Is a part of a pair on that cliff over there.
Speaker 5 (26:38):
So we can also use it to count vultures and
do surveys. So it's a controlled environment. And at this point,
safe food for vultures that doesn't have lead in it
or poison is saving vultures and it's.
Speaker 6 (26:52):
One of the best things that we can do in
a lot of places. So it's a fair.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Question it and I want to add on to that too.
So much many times we share with people things like
the vulture restlant or the supplemental feeding for California condors,
and what you're looking at is just right now, but
the overall game plan is forty or fifty years long,
because to your point, it's a long reproductive process. I
think the giant pan is a great example something that
(27:16):
when I was a kid was the poster child for
a dangered species, and then as an adult now it's
off that list because forty years of conservation efforts worked
and are continuing to work. Now they're not out of
the woods yet, and same with California condors. It was
one of those things where to what you said, it
was an extreme step of conservation to pull those guys
from the wild to create a breeding program. But now
they're way ahead of the game from where they were
(27:37):
in the nineteen eighties. Again, also not done being saved.
And so to the point of then volpro and these
vulture restaurants, it's a situation where if we don't do
something drastic, they'll be gone and it'll be too late.
So vulture restaurants supplemental feeding. Yes, we're bolstering the population
through doing this, but it's because we'll lose them otherwise,
and it gives us time then to fix the problems
(27:58):
that are challenging them. So I appreciate you're answering that
and pointing that out, because I think too often we
get a glimpse of what is happening right now, and
then the average person say, what that doesn't seem to
make sense. So I want to kind of explain that whole.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Process, and especially with an animal.
Speaker 4 (28:11):
I know sometimes it's hard for the three of us,
it's easy, But when I see a guest get so
excited over a giant pan I want that same love
vulture and everyone listening. They wants you to know that
there's many ways you can support. Please go to the Voltpro.
Their social media is amazing by the way, but also
the Safari Park we're going to be posting. We had
posted some stuff on I that International Vulture Awareness Day.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Come the Safari Park.
Speaker 4 (28:32):
Check out the vultures at African Forest, the California Condors.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
We have West Marsh.
Speaker 4 (28:37):
That's the African tram you guys, which is free for
you every time you enter that. Me and Kitty they
see to kill for SMOs Tramle Africa, Aki and San
Diego Zoo Safari Park.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
So just wanted to point out different ways to support
the voltzas.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
Yes, well, as we're getting closer to wrapping up here,
I know it was funny we were talking how before
we even started recording, like the three of us can
probably talk mit Voltures and I know Kim's got a
million good stories before we wrap it up, I do
want to ask you, hum, is there anything we haven't
touched on that that you would like to share with
our audience, because I know, again for the three of us,
we've known each other for a while. We know our
passions and our stories. I want to share some of
that with our audience. So is there anything that we
(29:12):
haven't touched on yet.
Speaker 5 (29:13):
Well, I know we talk about a lot of things
with vultures and how important they are doing their job.
Speaker 6 (29:18):
And I would challenge everyone who has never.
Speaker 5 (29:21):
Really looked across the twenty three different species of vultures
in the world to really look at them outside of
that job, because I feel that one of the reasons
that the perception about vultures being gross and dirty is
because often you see them in an amazing documentary and
(29:42):
it shows.
Speaker 6 (29:43):
Them oside and there's blood and guts everywhere, and it's gross.
But vultures and hyenas, by the way, love fresh water.
They love to bathe. And I will tell you I have.
Speaker 5 (29:59):
Worked with golden eagles and bald eagles and a variety
of vultures, and vultures are just as clean as a
golden eagle. As a matter of fact, I will see
an African vulture bathe way more than a golden eagle will.
But when if you stop so, you also hear the
bald is beautiful, and it is. But not all vultures
(30:19):
are bald. Go find the white headed vulture, which is
an African species. They have a beautiful head of white feathers.
The feathers on their body are very similar to African
eagles like the crowned eagle. They are absolutely beautiful. The
scenarios vulture, which I know, is when they look like
a big boofy baby gold eagle.
Speaker 6 (30:42):
So they are beautiful.
Speaker 5 (30:43):
And probably one of my favorite things about them is
how much they bathe.
Speaker 6 (30:48):
They're ridiculous in water, taken a bath so they are clean.
And they are amazing parents.
Speaker 5 (30:56):
And I mean I cannot not get choked up when
I watch video or see in person at volpro of
a cape vulture pair. And we do have a pair
here that we get all sorts of video and film footage.
When they're raising their chicks, they are like beautiful dragons.
They are extremely devoted parents. They are very loving to
(31:18):
their chicks. I mean, nobody's getting to that chick first
of all. And not only can you watch condor cam
every year, you can sometimes see a chick hatch under
the parents and go through the entire growth. They cuddle
with their chicks, they preen their chicks. They actually sometimes
kind of steal the chick from each other. So we've
had California condo. We had a great situation this year
(31:42):
where we had a female California condor laying an egg
and as the egg was literally falling out of her,
the male it's like I got it.
Speaker 6 (31:51):
And he's like it, and then they swap over. They
share all the duties. So if people that value.
Speaker 5 (31:56):
Family and parents and good parenting and devotion to a
baby the way that they'll watch cheetahs in lines, which
I the Yeah, if you just take a minute and
look at some of the species, maybe you'll find one
you finds beautiful. Yeah, And if you can find there's
so much social media out there with videos, whether it's
from our organization or Volpro, it's.
Speaker 6 (32:19):
Just you'll fall in love with them, You really will.
Speaker 5 (32:21):
If you just take it out then look at their
beautiful faces and eyes, you'll totally agree.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
Well to your point, Kim, I know we brought well. Yeah,
definitely well said, And to your point about paying attention,
and you may be surprised what you fall in love.
Was when I first went into college and caring for
exotic animals, I was all about big cats. That's all
I wanted I saw that was where I was going
to just work with big cats. And then quite by
just a weird circumstance, Someone's like, hey, you want to
(32:48):
come hang out while I feed the turkey vulture. I
was like, cool, I yues, I mean I've never seen
a turkey vulture up close. And then for the next
two years of college that was my buddy. We were like, hey,
you know, I learn more about it, learned about ithavior,
learn about how important relationships are to the vulture, how
you had to spend time with them and invest in
that relationship. Yes, when you were accepted, then you were
(33:08):
like the best friend ever.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Remember, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
And yeah, and if you would have told me the
week before starting this program that your best friend going
through this is going to be a tricky vulture. I
don't like birds, you know, but it's true. Once you
learn about these individuals and the species, you can't help
but fall in love with them.
Speaker 6 (33:27):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
Yeah. Speaking of falling in love, do you have a
favorite vulture species, Kim or is it likes me? Because
I know it's tough, but I was wondering, you just
want to stay your heart.
Speaker 5 (33:39):
So at Bolpro, I worked with several species cape vultures,
white back lappet, and a few others. The white back vultures,
they have the sweetest faces. To me, they're very sweet faces.
And I was fortunate enough to help with a crazy
twelve hour, middle of the night drive from the Voltpro
(34:03):
property near Pretoria almost to Namibia to rescue this young
white back vulture who was way off horse. He was
in the desert at this little town and I helped
recover him. I drove him back. I helped recover him,
and he has my heart. He's hopefully still flying somewhere
over Africa. But if you want to look at a
face and fall in love with a white back vulture.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
You heard it here, folks.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
Well, Kim, thank you so much for your time. And
I don't know should we come back next to your
part on this one. Yeah, I know, Kim's got some
great stories.
Speaker 5 (34:37):
Run out of time.
Speaker 6 (34:39):
Thank you, thank you, thank you for giving me the
opportunity our pleasure.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
Well, the passionate love for vultures is truly thick with
the three of us. What an absolute pleasure speaking to Kim.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
I know exactly what you mean, Rick, I mean, I
really wanted to talk with her more and have her
share more of our stories or our audience.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
Okay, well, let's see. Checking over my notes, we need
to schedule a follow up with Adam about crinivorous plants,
and now another follow up with Kim for vulture stories.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
I mean that sounds right to me, you know, carnivorous plants, vultures.
So much more to follow up on, because there is
so much more to learn.
Speaker 5 (35:14):
You know.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
Speaking of following up, Marco, we have had a few
requests come in for an update on an episode we
did back in early July.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
Oh, early July. Okay, all right, well let's see it's
in June. We did an episode about milky storks, right, oh,
and then we did an episode about copy bars at
the zoo there in July. Oh, I know, of course.
Speaker 4 (35:35):
Yeah, we did an episode introducing everyone to our news
residence at the San Diego Zoo, the Giant Pandas.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
Yeah, that's right, Marco. And now that Shinbao and Yu
Schwan have settled in and made themselves at home here
in San Diego, everyone is asking for an update.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
Absolutely love it. That sounds like an awesome idea.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
All right, then it's settled. Be sure to subscribe. And
tune into our next episode, in which we learn more
about the giant Pandas and how they've settled in here
at San Diego Zoo.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
Reck Quick, sure to bring him bampoo with me to
the interview.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
Marco, we aren't gonna interview the bears. We're interviewing someone
who's very familiar with the Pandas.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
All right, I knew that. Well, I'll MARKO what and
I'm Rick Schwartz.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
Thanks for listening. For more information about the San Diego
Zoo and San Diego Zoo Safari Park, go to SDZWA
dot org. Amazing Wildlife is a production of iHeartRadio. Our
supervising producers are Nikia Swinton and Dylan Fagan, and our
sound designers are Sierra Spreen and Matt Russell. For more
(36:37):
shows from iHeartRadio, check out the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Hosts And Creators
Rick Schwartz
Marco Wendt
Popular Podcasts
40s and Free Agents: NFL Draft Season
Daniel Jeremiah of Move the Sticks and Gregg Rosenthal of NFL Daily join forces to break down every team's needs this offseason.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.