May 29, 2025 • 49 mins
Capricorn Clark corroborated much of Cassie's testimony, and then some!
From an alleged kidnapping, to being threatened with murder, Capricorn told the jury what it was like to work for Diddy.
But did his former assistant hold back? Aubrey offers her take on the power player who went from being Diddy's gatekeeper to calling him 'The Devil.'
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Amy and TJ presents Aubrey Oday covering the Didty trial.
Welcome everybody to Amy and TJ presents Aubrey O'Day covering
the Diddy trial and TJ Holmes here alongside my partner
Amy Robach, and we have been getting help along the
way and covering the Didty trial from someone who has
(00:22):
insight that we definitely right now need robes after we
just finished another full day of testimony in the trial,
and this is certainly one we could use Aubrey's context
in understanding what happened one witness on the stand for
a full day.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Her name is hard to forget. Capricorn Clark and Aubrey.
You read everything that this star witness told jurors yesterday
because she had a lot to say in some ways.
In a lot of ways, she corroborated what we heard
from Cassie Ventura, but she also pokes some holes in
(01:00):
what she testified to at least left some questions for jurors.
What was your overall impression? You know Capricorn, you've met Capricorn,
you've worked alongside Capricorn. What was your take on her
testimony yesterday?
Speaker 4 (01:15):
Her story and what she went through was horrific.
Speaker 5 (01:18):
Her desire to please Diddy and to be great at
her job is exactly as she stated it. From morning
until the next morning at four am, she would work NonStop. Food, water,
and your overall mental health was not really ever considered
over in that area. And so it's not like there
was any professional setting or professional graces given to the employees.
(01:43):
And she established many things from kidnapping that's going to
be playing into the Rico charge. There's violence, weapons breaking, kidnapping,
even the rituals of her day one coming from Death Row,
coming from Sug moving over there. Day one was like
(02:05):
Central Park and if you ever, you know, play with me,
you'll end up dead. Threats of violence, threat threats of death.
And one thing I will say, in the music industry,
especially in hip hop, a lot of people will threaten death.
There's death talking about, you know, talked about a lot
in music. Not many people take that seriously enough to
(02:30):
uh fall in line and do what's needed to be
done for the person that's threatening them. A lot of
people will challenge back or will you know, either make
a spectacle of it in order to sell records, or
they will you know, whatever they choose to do. It's
more of an artistic presentation than it is a fear
(02:51):
in these situations that are being testified to. This is
direct fear. This is nobody understanding. This is a knowledge
from a lot of people now that truly believed that
he'd do exactly as he said he would, Which tells
me that even prior to me being there, that in
the nineties, there has to have been a lot of
information that a lot of people were aware of in
(03:13):
regards to how dangerous this human could be. Potentially, because
the threats of being taken out seemed to have been
very serious to all of these people, they didn't bat
an eye and they didn't think.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
It was false.
Speaker 5 (03:25):
Bravado Capricorn was very interesting because there was always this
dynamic of you know, she there felt like there was
a competitive dynamic, like as if there were if there
were certain people that she felt were in her way
or whatever. There felt, in my opinion, this like you know,
(03:47):
just a dislike.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
So I didn't.
Speaker 5 (03:49):
I was never on the winning side of that. Unfortunately.
Maybe she thought that there was something with me and
Diddy or whatever, but I didn't ever get to see
the winning sides. There were some times where I got
to see like good good aspects of her personality. But
I did notice even in the testimony she was saying
how there were moments where she felt like pushed out
by Cassie and even had moments where she disliked her.
Speaker 4 (04:12):
Then there's moments where she brought her back in.
Speaker 5 (04:14):
But on an overall understanding of Capricorn, I was thinking
that way more was going to be told. She definitely,
in my opinion, kept some things in, possibly because they
don't pertain, or possibly because of other situations.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Legally, I'll repect of something you said at the beginning,
and this could help us understand Capricorn a little better.
She talked about possibly wanting to be a protector or diddy,
and then you were speaking kind of how she was
almost possessive and like nobody gets more attention from him
than I do, or I'm the one that's the gatekeeper.
Which was it or was it a balance of he
(04:52):
just give us some more context for what she felt
she represented and wanted to be the ditty.
Speaker 5 (04:58):
I think there's that balance. So I think she you know,
she did state in her testimony she would know best, right.
She stated in her testimony that she felt protective over him,
that if she wasn't around, that he could get himself
into trouble. That she would like basically handle all the
ins and outs of all the things that were going on,
and a lot of those things apparently could lead to
(05:19):
a lot of trouble for people or for Puff And
so she was like she took her responsibility of protecting
him very seriously. And coming from death Row, which you
know infamously in the nineties the two West and East
battles were Death Row and Bad Boy. Coming from Death
Row moving over to Bad Boy and having a fierce
(05:41):
protection and loyalty to Diddy is there's a lot to
unpack there. This is a human that knows a lot
of things, and I believe that with what she established,
I mean, there are a lot of parts of the story.
She talked about being abused by him, that's another person.
Now she's part of an enterprise of people. There was
(06:03):
somebody with her inside of her of his home. They
established even when Diddy and the other person went inside
Cutty's home and she was left in the car that
she called Cassie from a burner phone. I don't carry
around burner phones, do you I mean, you gotta be
you gotta be into some serious stuff if you're if
you've got a pocket full of burner phones just in case.
(06:25):
I mean, I've never even walked by a burner phone
and thought of purchasing it. So like, you know the
fact that there was just a burner phone ready, and
the she had to sit on his lap with the
gun pointed out at her. I don't I don't understand
the sitting on the lap part. I don't know exactly
what it all says, but I know it says force,
(06:48):
and I know it says coercion. And I know that
a lot of people felt like they were very unsafe
and they weren't willing to challenge that, and they definitely
didn't think that he was just.
Speaker 4 (06:59):
On one and doing the most.
Speaker 5 (07:02):
I think they feel like their lives genuinely would be
in danger. It seems over and over again that we're
establishing that now with multiple people in the enterprise. Now,
if you pay attention in regards to the Rico charge racketeering,
if you pay attention to what happened to Keith in
that Nexium trial, they were able to establish sex trafficking
(07:26):
off of a smaller group of people in a smaller scope,
just a handful of people that basically worked with him
in order to achieve the things that he instructed them
to do that were criminal.
Speaker 4 (07:42):
And next the guy from Nexium's in prison.
Speaker 5 (07:44):
So I think they're getting right about there with reaching
the bar on sex trafficking. Definitely have the possessing people
across state lines. If we're getting into racketeering things like this,
we're talking about kidnapping, we're talking about explosives where we've
(08:06):
now tied everything to everyone, and there are more people
that are being named in every testimony, and it kind
of seems like the trajectory of what the prosecution is
establishing is here's the name. Might not mean anything to
you right now, but it will when we come back
next week, because then we see that person taking the
stand and filling in all of the holes of the picture.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
Aubrey, I'm curious A lot was made of Capricorn's emotions.
She was by everyone who was in the courtroom. Witnesses
described for as uncontrollably sobbing when she was talking about
the emails, when she was begging for forgiveness for him
to let her return. I mean, this is a twenty
(08:50):
year period where she says she experienced to witness all
of these things, and yet even as late as last spring,
she was begging to come back in some role.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
All of that emotion, all of those tears. What did
you think of that?
Speaker 3 (09:05):
Like, you know her, at least you've been around her,
what did you think of that?
Speaker 5 (09:10):
Kind of always said this in different ways. There are
things about Diddy that are all encompassing, and for some people,
when he's proud of you, you almost feel you know.
I talked with a psychologist about that on our podcast,
and she said to me, in your childhood or in general,
(09:34):
if you have any type of abandonment or self confidence
issues in different levels growing up, that when you get
in front of somebody like that, they can really grab
a hold of you. And the second that you are abused, traumatized,
or put in a very scary, fearful situation, your body
almost clings up and goes into shock. And the only
(09:57):
way you ever get that relief is when they come
back you and they want you again. Then you feel
like you've got your life back. If they're doing things
like holding your home, your car, your bank accounts, your laptops,
et cetera. I mean, Capricorn talked about she had a
life and an entire established career, and then she didn't.
And Capricorn was known around the time I was there,
(10:20):
she was a bad bitch. She was running the streets,
she was respected everywhere. She could go around and do
whatever she wanted to do. She knew every I mean
I was. I was intimidated by her, like, let me
not piss her off, because her attitude is real poignant
when she doesn't like you, and when she does like you,
it seems like she looks out for you.
Speaker 4 (10:41):
But she was friends with kim Porter.
Speaker 5 (10:44):
She even wrote in the comment that we read on
in an episode prior that kim Porter was the only
one that stayed a real one to the very end.
I mean, that's an important piece of all of this,
is everything starts to come full circle.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
How much did did he respect, appreciate, or even need
Tepricorn Clark. It sounded like she was really a gatekeeper
for a lot of things.
Speaker 5 (11:10):
There were at that point the gatekeepers that I saw,
besides his big old besides all of the men that
were part of the establishment, some who I can personally
say one sexually assaulted me one sexually assaulted potentially allegedly
(11:32):
one of my band members. There was a lot of
things going on with the men over there. As far
as the women go, I was always we were always
around Capricorn and a woman named Francesca Sparrow who was
found I believed, and that was I don't know how
long of a period after of suing Diddy and bad
Boy for a significant amount of money, and then you know,
(11:57):
when Capricorn got out and fran was out, seems.
Speaker 4 (12:01):
Like KK came in.
Speaker 5 (12:04):
And if you do a little research on some of
the civil suits and some of the claims being made
on the type of things that KK allegedly could have
been involved in, it sounds like he kind of always
had somebody in that role that maybe understood.
Speaker 4 (12:23):
On a deeper level. How and here's the thing.
Speaker 5 (12:26):
Hurt people. Hurt people, right. I had moments where I
saw things. I can't speak about them because Netflix has
the exclusivity on them, but there were times where I
witnessed things that showed a human in pain, suffering a
little bit in my opinion, So if she saw things
(12:49):
like that often, then she might have felt a fierce
loyalty to him, and also It's a commonly known thing
that black women just naturally protect black men. They are
just so historically have been so disenfranchised by the system,
so attacked and brutal brutalized by the system, that there's
(13:12):
just a different type of loyalty that exists in the community.
Then I would necessarily even understand. And so I think
that there probably is many things at play when it
comes to loving somebody and wanting to protect them from
themselves and then also hating them so much.
Speaker 4 (13:37):
For how much they never.
Speaker 5 (13:38):
Really gave a fuck about you, and how much you
sacrificed for them. I think maybe those where those tears
come from. Also, I don't know that. Also, I don't
know how much of her story, you know, was able
to be told on the stand, But when you get
to all of the parts of the story, there were
(13:58):
some personal things that were probably very devastating and horrific
for her to have experienced, and that could potentially also
be where the tears are coming from.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Can I stop you there, because you mentioned it earlier,
we're listening to it from the outside. We just met
Capricorn Clark, you will, just through her testimony. We don't
know much about this lady, but our jarles were dropped
and reading all the testimony, your first reaction was, Wow,
I'm surprised she didn't go further than she did.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Why is that?
Speaker 1 (14:29):
And you kind of alluded to it?
Speaker 5 (14:30):
There?
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Can you expound as much as you can on what
you mean by there's more for her to say that
she didn't say and why she didn't say.
Speaker 5 (14:40):
Somebody else made this statement. It wouldn't have been coming
from any of us in the room. I can just
google quickly an article online and we all know we
have our battles with these articles online. But Suge Knight,
who has also been around all of these people for
a very long time, also isamiliar with Capricorn as she
(15:01):
worked at death Row prior.
Speaker 4 (15:03):
To going to Bad Boy.
Speaker 5 (15:05):
He stated that did he beat the shit out of
that bitch? Is what the title of the article is.
Shug on his podcast Collect Call with Suge Knight Front
that he does from prison, talks about why Puffy done.
What Puffy did or what Puffy do is not a surprise.
(15:27):
Everyone knows what it is. I mean, you got to
be able to that type of shit to a woman
and to other women.
Speaker 4 (15:35):
But it's not like it's news.
Speaker 5 (15:37):
So basically kind of establishing that everyone knows he was
doing this to people all the way back then, same
time he beat the shit out of motherfucking Cassie. This
is a quote not my language. He had an assistant
by the name of Capricorn. He continued. He felt cap
was keeping this shit on the low about if she
was messing with Cutty or not. Puff beat the shit
(15:59):
out of that bitch. Not only did he beat the
shit out of her, it was an interscope person, an
interscope check that paid her to settle so he wouldn't
go to jail.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Does it seem like he's referring to the Central Park
incident she discussed. Maybe she just didn't go into as
much detail about what, at least should Knights has happened.
Speaker 5 (16:21):
It seems like there came a point where she couldn't
take it anymore. I'm not exactly sure what incident that was,
but it sounds like it was so bad that not
even bad Boy or did He could put their name
anywhere near the check that paid her off allegedly. And
(16:42):
when I say to you guys that we need a
systematic change in the music industry. In one man's trial
and potential convictions or not is not going to change anything.
Speaker 4 (16:56):
Is because I don't know what.
Speaker 5 (16:58):
You guys feel about out if what should Knight said
is true and there is a money trail or other
people that are aware of this and confirm it can
confirm it. What do you guys feel about a music
label allegedly picking up the responsibility of someone being so
(17:19):
beaten that it got to a point where jail time
was potentially being considered and the person allegedly involved could
not even pay the person off. And we know that
there's been a whole lot of payments to a whole
lot of people, according to a whole lot of civil
lawsuits eighty over eighty or around eighty to be exact,
(17:40):
so far allegedly. For me, what it feels like is
is like, I don't know, you could potentially I'm not
saying that this was what was done, but I know
when we had platinum albums and we're making people millions
of dollars that we were always told we weren't seeing
any money because it was being recouped.
Speaker 4 (17:59):
That's a word that they love to use, recoop, recoop, recoop.
Speaker 5 (18:02):
I'll never forget the word. It haunts me in my
motherfucking sleep. But if you think about it, if you
had to pay off a big chunk of money to somebody,
you could just recoop it.
Speaker 4 (18:12):
Because at the.
Speaker 5 (18:12):
Time, if what Shug says is true and Innerscope did
make the payment, Interscope was also who was in charge
of dirty money. They were the ones backing the project
to my knowledge, So if a check was made, I'm
not saying that this is what occurred, but I'm sure
in the industry in general, they throw a lot of
different things under that recoop name. You just keep hearing
(18:36):
about the recoop. You never actually really see the check. Well,
so so you know, could somebody's beating have just been
a recoup owed back by them from the artists that they, uh, you.
Speaker 4 (18:51):
Know, represented.
Speaker 5 (18:52):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (18:53):
This is all alleged.
Speaker 5 (18:54):
This is all just me, you know, opinions and us
bantering back and forth about what these things could possibly
mean that people have stated publicly that are in the industry.
But I do remember our manager at one point, a
man that I have a large amount of respect for,
Johnny Wright, had to sit down with me at one
(19:16):
point and he did say to me, you got to
get this group together, and like, you know, the.
Speaker 4 (19:21):
Pressure's on you.
Speaker 5 (19:22):
And I was like, why, we're all equal, we're all stars,
we're all five choosing to not make anyone a lead.
We had to go in and fight for that continuously
vocally on the tracks. And he was like, well, the
audience and the fans have decided it's you, so so
whether you like that or not, it is what it is.
And he said to me, the most replaceable person in
(19:44):
this situation is the artists, the managers, the CPAs, the agents,
the publicists, the A and rs, the record labels. They're
all going to be there for the next twenty five
girl groups after you, and they were there for the
twenty five girl groups before you. The artist is the
most replaceable part. And the sad thing that the fans
(20:07):
don't understand is they loved us.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
They came and paid for.
Speaker 5 (20:12):
The artists for us, and we are the last to
be paid, never were paid in most regards. And the
bigger problem in all of that is we're the most replaceable.
And even if you don't mess it all up, like
they really tried hard to make it a Danity Kane
inner turmoil that couldn't be controlled and it was us
(20:36):
that were to blame.
Speaker 4 (20:36):
You know, Diddy pointed me.
Speaker 5 (20:38):
Out specifically because in my opinion, now that I've seen
more and understand more of what was going on during
that time, it's likely that they needed my fan base
to turn against me and to move on to a
new project that he was moving one of my bandmates onto. Potentially,
in my opinion, that could be something.
Speaker 4 (20:56):
That was going on.
Speaker 5 (20:58):
But I know that in all of these situations that
when an artist is the most replaceable part, that there's
something wrong with the music industry, the business.
Speaker 4 (21:12):
There's something wrong with that.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
I know.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
Something you talked about Aubrey was being blacklisted once you
were fired from Danity Kane by Diddy.
Speaker 4 (21:31):
And Capricorn said that too.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
Absolutely what we heard from Capricorn on the stand, So
that was an interesting oversation she had, or at least
the testimony she was giving, talking about being blacklisted and
perhaps one of the reasons why she kept coming back because.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
She said she could not find work.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
She describes being followed while she was at the Creative
Artist Agency, literally being tailed and trailed and incapable of
finding work. That reads true for you because your experience
was similar guess.
Speaker 5 (22:02):
Yeah, my experience was more humiliating, but yeah, a bunch
of record labels saying they want me, having me meet
up at the Beverly Hills Hotel, asking me to dance,
putting on track after track into a room full of
like forty people passing a blunt around. I remember dancing
so hard at one point I knocked a lamp off
(22:23):
a table. I was trying my damn just to they
just I just remember I have nightmares in my head
from the j LO song that they kept on repeat.
I'll if when I hear it, I want to, like
I get I could be dead danger to myself when
that song comes on.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
You gotta tell what song?
Speaker 5 (22:39):
Oh god, I can't even I don't even want to
think about it. But the song that was put on
one of them in repeat was a j Lo's song,
and I just like, after a few eight counts it
usually stops, but it just wasn't stopping. And then you know,
the personallyaves the room, comes back in and is like, oh,
we just got the call, like you're you're untouchable, Hey,
(23:00):
thanks for coming in, and me just being like mortified
and humiliated, and I didn't understand even at the time,
and it was a really big uh it was.
Speaker 4 (23:11):
It was a comedy bit for them.
Speaker 5 (23:14):
For me, I thought that I failed, and I was
whipping my head around and doing spins so hard that
I was knocking shit off of tables.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
Sweet okay, let's well fix It speaks to Ditty's reach power.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
He had still wondering about was j Lo song But
we will we will ask you about that later. Let's
get back to Capricorn for a second. Of such a
central part of her testimony had to do with her
being the one that was there. She was a witness
to the night that did he allegedly went to Cuddie's
house broke In was upset about finding out that Cuddy
was dating Cassid. Now, the big part of this is
(23:47):
that she says she was not a willing passenger along
for that ride.
Speaker 5 (23:52):
No, he showed up at her apartment for the very
first time. He had never gone there with the gun,
fold her in the car, made her sit on his
lap with the gun. I don't know how she snuck
a burner phone, but somehow she had a burner phone
was able to warn Cassie and Cutty that they were
in his house well.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Before they left. Let's do that chronologically. Yes, we're going
to get to that point. But even before they left
the house. This is very key because they're arguing. The
defense is that she went willingly because she considered herself
his protector and didn't want him to do something stupid.
She says, she was absolutely not a willing participant and
was forced to go. That's key because was she kidnapped
(24:32):
or not? What did you make of how she handled testifying?
Were you there to protect them or were you there
against you will?
Speaker 5 (24:40):
Yeah, that's complicated to me. What you just said made
my head recognizing consistency.
Speaker 4 (24:46):
I didn't realize it was one or the other.
Speaker 5 (24:48):
I thought that she had testified to being forced into
the car by a gunpoint, and.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
The defense called her on. They said, well, previously, you
stated that you were his protector and you wanted to
go with him that night because you quote didn't want
him to do something stupid. They recalled that from a
previous statement she made.
Speaker 4 (25:06):
In that previous interview.
Speaker 5 (25:08):
Was that was she talking specifically in regards to this
night in this event or was it it just an
overall that night in that event.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
Yeah, she doesn't remember making that statement, but the defense
said you did.
Speaker 5 (25:21):
Well. Let me tell you one bit of grace that
I give a lot of people. When this first happened,
not one person thought that anything would change. Once the
settlement went down, within like twenty four hours, it was gone.
Everyone like had twenty four hours where they were like,
oh my god, justice could be real.
Speaker 4 (25:42):
And then when it stopped, everyone sunk back and.
Speaker 5 (25:45):
Was like, I guess we all are just gonna still
be living in the lie. And then when the investigators came,
there was hope. Then people thought that you know, everybody
on this everybody in this streets had word and talks
to whoever they talked to, and it was rumored that
the indictment would happen at a certain time, and it
(26:06):
wasn't happening, and then all of a sudden it happens,
and then they you know, the raid happens, the indictment
happens during that, and then the Cassie video drops. The
Cassie video drop allowed a lot of people to feel
safer to come forward. But when I tell you that
people were very scared. It was a real thing. If
(26:28):
you knew anything about his behavior, if you had any
proof of his behavior, if you were there or witnessed
or was on the other end of any of his
behavior from smaller to very very large, were learning you
were scared. I had people literally saying, oh, what is
this bo was this bit scared of? Blah blah blah.
(26:49):
Well watch the Netflix documentary and you'll be able to
hear what I was scared of.
Speaker 4 (26:54):
But the periods of scared TJ.
Speaker 5 (26:56):
I mean, I don't know how many pictures of license
plates I have on my phone of cars outside my
home that I had never seen for months. At one point,
I literally got a knife out of my kitchen and
walked outside my gate and just waved it in the
air and went to every single car, like, listen, you
do not live on the street. You have been parked
(27:18):
here with your phone up for the past two hours.
Who the fuck are you and what is it that
you want? Like the paranoia was seeping in. I would
ask my boyfriend at the time, am I being a
Karen or is this real? And then there was something
that occurred that he called me about. Uh Pros from
the Fujis Pros called me at one point and he
was like, you might be right to feel like you're
(27:40):
in danger. I would go to a hotel for a second.
He had inside it. He had some type of information
that I didn't know about. And that was the first
time that I realized, like, oh, okay, so you know,
maybe I'm not doing the most. It was hard to tell.
Speaker 4 (27:56):
It was very scary.
Speaker 5 (27:57):
So when you asked me that if I see a
small thing like I was trying to protect him, that
could be at a state where you don't know what's
really going to happen with this man, and then when
he gets fully taken out, you now know.
Speaker 4 (28:11):
Okay, I'm saying.
Speaker 5 (28:12):
Even when I spoke with Homeland Security, they told me
anything that you say in this interview you'd have to
say on the on the stand, and there's no we
don't get a like edit. What you say is what
it is. So if there's something you don't want to say,
don't say it because there's no editing and there's no
(28:32):
go backs. This is a one time thing. They don't
give you any information. They give nobody. I mean, I
asked them, was the story that happened with me true?
They could not tell me anything. They made it clear
they would never be able to tell me any of that. So,
so when you're talking to them. There's still even I
still had a fear of naming certain people that were
(28:53):
around during certain things because I thought, if he doesn't
get taken under and these people do get together there,
I could be in a lot of trouble. But for
sure I'd never work again.
Speaker 3 (29:05):
When you see with all of that, your personal experience,
knowing all of that and fearing a lot of that,
when you see Capricorn get up and testify, how.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Much courage does that take?
Speaker 3 (29:17):
I mean, she is looking directly at Ditty when she
or at least he's right there in front of her
when she's testifying to all of this.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
Can you imagine knowing her knowing Ditty being around them both,
what that must have been like?
Speaker 5 (29:32):
Worse than anyone can ever imagine, because I think she
knows so much more and the scope of this is
just where the scope of this is.
Speaker 4 (29:39):
But I also.
Speaker 5 (29:41):
Think there's some part of her that feels the way
I do, in the sense that you know, you asked
me the first day, TJ, where does the sympathy lay
with this person? Not every day was bad? So and
also a good day with him is a better day
than you could have with anybody else in life.
Speaker 4 (30:00):
So it's hard to.
Speaker 5 (30:03):
Match the extremes of that man. And there's there she's
been tortured. Imagine if it's true what Shug has suggested happened,
and she was given enough potentially compensation to take care
of herself, and whatever occurred, You're still living in a
(30:25):
world that idolizes a man. You still see his billboards
every time you get to hear him that he's now
changed his name to love. Do you know how disgusting
that could be for so many of us. That's why
I went on mass singer and said, this belongs to
us now for a man that you know as Oh
the love hearts went on to know that, to know
(30:49):
the evil ways of somebody, to see that and hear
if you know him and you still talk to people
to hear and know in the streets that behavior is
still allegedly still rolling on like usual, at least according
to a lot of the civil suits, it appears that way.
If you know allegedly, it would probably be a very
(31:13):
hard thing to know that he just took over the
one name that is a universal feeling of goodness and
warmth and joy and love. It's the best thing that
you can have on this Earth, and that motherfucking man
named himself that legally and took the signage and made
(31:35):
it his. He is still I'm I'm was watching one
of the court the people that draw those awful pictures
of all of them looking hectic. Yeah, I was watching
her on an interview and she was saying that how
much Diddy is really like playing it up in court.
He's like blowing love hearts to the kids, He's chatting
(31:57):
it up with his team, he's talking to interviewers. Is
he's walking out to new sites as he's walking out
like he's really starting to get There are a lot
of reports suggesting that he's giving more of a showmanship
in the room lately. And like, I don't know if
I had mentioned this to you guys, but you know,
coming forward and saying we're respectfully not going to cross
(32:21):
Cassie's mom. That's not because they couldn't come up with
something that's definitely a move. Because they feel like maybe
they got somebody at least one in that jury that
is potentially in their favor, and all they need is
one and a move like that could really make the
man be seen as Wow, he wouldn't even go after
someone's mom.
Speaker 4 (32:40):
That's a really nice thing to do.
Speaker 5 (32:43):
And wow, look at his mom's sitting behind him, and
all his kids are there. This A lot of people
sure do love this man. And these are a lot
of horrific things we're hearing. It could confuse somebody, and
these details are horrific. These details are very much alone
with the charges that he has been charged with.
Speaker 4 (33:02):
Frankly, yet this understanding.
Speaker 5 (33:06):
Of whether he really is good or really is bad
is what I think the both prosecution that needs to
probably do a little bit less of and more of
the proof of the coercion in the force and the
racketeering stuff which they're doing. And then I think the
defense is really going to probably rest on more of
(33:27):
the poking holes.
Speaker 4 (33:31):
And you really like this guy.
Speaker 5 (33:34):
There's he was a drug addict and he had bad phases,
but really that lovable side which I told you there
is that check in with that man. He is a human.
That check in could confuse one person. And it's eight
men and four women, And no disrespect to you, TJ,
but men get it wrong a lot, a lot.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
You hear that a lot. We disagree with that, though,
but we do hear that lot. Back to the incident.
That night, she gets taken from the home. She says
she's heading They're going to Cutty's house. He goes in
with the security guard to Cutty's house. But we mentioned
off the top of here she talked about the first
day on the job, he threatened to kill her, threatened
(34:16):
the killer. Later Keller threatened to kill her and Cuddy
and Cassie. You talked earlier about sometimes in the industry,
you know, we're familiar with rap beefs, and sometimes people
rap about killing this person. That's one thing, But did you,
in your opinion, when he's threatening to kill somebody in
these situations, this is not rap bravado, This is not
(34:36):
wrap beef you think people had he was for real.
Speaker 5 (34:40):
Yeah, if he wasn't for real, people would have just
laughed it off. Nobody would have been buying burner phones,
Nobody would have been hiding out, not saying certain things
around him, not upsetting him. I mean, one thing that
stood out to me, and it won't make sense until
the Netflix documentary comes out, but there was something they
said in her exchange about how her Capricorn and Lauren
(35:04):
London were in the kitchen talking about why they don't
have a man, and Diddy tells Cassie to go into
wherever he was, and he displays in front of these women.
To Cassie, he says, stand up, sit down, turn to
the left, turn to the right, go look this way,
look that way, whatever the commands were, and then he
looked over at them and said, that's why you don't
(35:26):
have a man. And there are things that there are
actual pieces of proof that suggest that that is very
much the way in which the expectations for females to
behave was. And I don't think you were kept around
(35:46):
for long if you wanted to act differently.
Speaker 3 (35:50):
Something that Capricorn testified to in cross examination was jarring
to us and certainly jaw dropping. But when the defense
attorneys asked her to recount, or to paraphrase, at least,
they asked her if this were in fact true, that
(36:10):
she was recounting a conversation that she had with Cassie,
and she was telling in the statement that she was
begging Cassie to leave Dinny. You gotta leave him, you
gotta leave. You can't stay with him anymore after everything
she had seen, and what her remark was or what
(36:31):
her testimony was that Cassie said this, jay Z is taken,
who would I date? And the lawyer said, is that
what Cassie Ventura said? Did Cassie Ventura say to you,
jay Z is taken? Who else would I date?
Speaker 5 (36:44):
And she said, yes, Well, here's a bigger picture thought,
because that is a hard one to lay into. Does
it matter if somebody wanted to be with someone rich
and powerful and wanted to be with somebody at the
top in regards to any of these charges, No, what
(37:09):
type of aspirational woman she was, what she valued or
what she wanted in a boyfriend, and it could have
just been a joke. But either way, if it wasn't
a joke, and she did have an aspiration of being
with the biggest and the best, which frankly a lot
of people do. Look at you, you got TJTJ. You
got amy biggest and best. Somebody fought for it, other
(37:32):
people fight for it at different levels. To me, it's
neither here nor there. It doesn't It doesn't have anything
to do with kidnapping with weapons, robbery or invade home invasion.
Speaker 4 (37:49):
And car bombing and.
Speaker 5 (37:52):
Continuous amounts of I mean, he locked Capricorn up for
in a was it a co instruction building for like
five days when jewelry went missing. That's not a normal
thing for a boss to do. When jewelry's misplaced.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
The light detector test and a man by a.
Speaker 5 (38:09):
Lie detector test. I mean, let's be real now, light
detector tests aren't even admissible in court.
Speaker 4 (38:14):
Who would even do something like that.
Speaker 5 (38:16):
I don't think that that had anything to do with
her finally getting it right. I think it had to
do with look at the degrees in which I will
go to make sure that you know to never cross me.
It's coercion.
Speaker 3 (38:30):
Yeah, and I was just curious what you thought because
you were just speaking to It only takes one duror.
It only takes one duror. And if you were now
throwing some sort of holes or at least in terms
of was she complicit? Was she really doing all of
this against her will? Was she actually being coerced and
forced to do these freak offs and forced to endure
(38:52):
all of this abuse. If she's actually saying, hey, it's
worth it because I get what I want in the end.
I want to be with the richard, powerful guy. I
love this luxurious lifestyle. Yeah, I might have to enter
X Y and Z, but I'll do it because I
want this. That was the concern, or at least I'm
sure that's what the defense's goal was, to least eat
(39:12):
it out in wonder, who thinks you know what?
Speaker 2 (39:15):
She wanted it, She asked for it, she was complicit
in it.
Speaker 5 (39:18):
So let me say two things about that. My first
one being there have been plenty of things that have
shown she was not complicit in everything, So that's a
wash right there. Second thing I would say is, as
you were talking, it was bringing all these thoughts up
in regards to there were a lot of things said
to people that are still acting like they want to
(39:39):
stay far away from this trial, that know a good
about about what was happening, and you.
Speaker 4 (39:43):
Know who you are, and they were.
Speaker 5 (39:49):
There was very specific attempts at trying to divide us,
just as Danity Kane let alone the women that were
being that dated. I mean, it sounds like there was
the vision that was being constantly woven between Kim and Cassie.
I would witness during making the band, whenever Kim came
to watch us, Cassie was drug out. Whether she wanted
(40:11):
to be there or not, she was taken out and
put in the stairwell or the hallway or whatever. Kim
wasn't going to be in a room with her, and
Kim came first. And then when you see Capricorn saying
Cassie got rid of me, Cassie got in there, and
she felt mad about Cassie doing that and thought Cassie
would get rid of her. It seems like instead of
(40:32):
women joining together, which is what we're seeing now right,
potentially a lot of women, whether they liked each other
or not, taking the stand and telling their story with
a lot of bravery, and their story seemed pretty consistent,
and they're not allowed to talk with each other to
come up with anything. You're not allowed to speak to
another victim when you have been approached by Homeland security.
(40:53):
So at that point, you're seeing all these women now
with so much bravery coming forward and talking about all
their experience, and they're all kind of the same, and
they all are also are saying there was jealousy amongst them.
But I don't know that it's necessarily a woman's state
and a healthy environment to just dislike all.
Speaker 4 (41:12):
The women around.
Speaker 5 (41:14):
Usually we learn ourselves through the mirror of the men
that are looking at us and if you're being mirrored
back by the men that were around when I was there,
I feel very worried about what you may think you
are or what you may think you have to be
in order to be appreciated. But it definitely wasn't best
friends with the girls sitting across from you. Divide and
(41:35):
conquer was a very good strategy that was used over there,
and in my opinion, and it obviously worked well. However,
now that we're in a federal trial and there's plenty
of people that established they're not friends anymore. They were
jealous of each other, they didn't like each other, but
the patterns of abuse coercion force these extreme situations that
(41:57):
everybody is discussing. Some people even are still going up
there liking him, but they still saw all the stuff happening.
There's enough. There's enough employees involved, there's enough, there's enough
people that were setting things up, there's enough people helping
possess people across state lines.
Speaker 4 (42:17):
There's enough things going.
Speaker 5 (42:18):
On where a lot of these charges are being really
established right now.
Speaker 3 (42:24):
Well, one thing's for sure is Capricorn's testimony on Tuesday
was for us at least jaw dropping and and it's
remarkable you think about how they've been calling all these witnesses.
It was just her all day and she captivated everyone
who was listening.
Speaker 5 (42:40):
And the new her is after her would have been KK.
So let's see if KK takes the stand, because KK
will would be probably just as shocking. Now. I don't
know if she stays on H Diddy's side or not,
but in some of the civil suits, some things are
alleged that are criminal behavior, So if she's looking for immunity,
(43:04):
she might want to get on that stand allegedly.
Speaker 3 (43:16):
There is certainly a lot more to come in city trial,
but there is actually something that was going on behind
the scenes from one of the women who took this
stand last week.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
Don Rochard.
Speaker 3 (43:28):
Can you fill us in what's going on or what
happened between Don Rochard and Q, who we had on
the podcast earlier, who also alleges to be a victim
in a lot of ways from the Diddy empire and
what he believes happened to him.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
But what was going on between Q and Dawn on
social media?
Speaker 5 (43:48):
So to basically summarize the online exchange between Q and down,
Q posted over the weekend. His post was meant to
clarify the things he told us on the podcast last week,
things that he's been saying for a long time. After that,
Don posted in response to Q's post, denying she had
anything to do with his allegations. Then Q responded to
(44:11):
her post claiming that there was video evidence. Once he
posted the fact that he had receipts, Don then took
her post down. So because of that interview, all of
that occurred over the weekend, and then Don took down
her posts. So I don't know, guys, what do you
think about that? What do you think specifically about the
(44:34):
behavior of making a statement and then retracting it or
they're being video proof, So what do you guys think
about that?
Speaker 1 (44:43):
You know, the back and forth. It's hard to look
at a lot of anybody in this case. Once you
start listening to them. Everybody seems like a victim. Everybody
seems like they were in pain. Everybody seems like they
were hurt in some way. And yes, including Diddy, yes
he was at the top of this chain. Some of
the stuff they describe in his behavior sounds oh maniacal,
(45:05):
and it does sound like somebody strung adult drugs. This
is not a suggestion at all that he is not
guilty of something, is not responsible for what we all
saw on that video. But this sounds like an ugly
It sounds like hell on earth. But from the outside,
it all looked like a world that was glamorous and
we wanted to be a party in. This is disgusting,
I'll be honest with you. The more we learn about it,
(45:26):
that's just an ugly, ugly world. And I hope this
shit is not still going on to people that were
your age. Are we going to get in it or
even younger?
Speaker 5 (45:33):
PJ.
Speaker 4 (45:34):
Let me just cut in right there.
Speaker 5 (45:36):
Allegedly it is we need a cultural reshift. This is
a sick, sick situation when you have people that have
dreams and music is different than other professions in the
sense that when you guys went to show up for
your job every day, you are in very corporate settings
with very professional people. In these settings, you're in the
(45:57):
studio till three am. If a producer wants to smoke
weed in the room, you got to run to the
stairwell to.
Speaker 4 (46:03):
Breathe if you don't want to get high because you
don't like that.
Speaker 5 (46:06):
Because they get to do what they want to do,
they're recording the song.
Speaker 4 (46:09):
It's their track, it's their life.
Speaker 5 (46:11):
There's no the boundaries are almost nonexistent, no overs there's
no oversight. I mean I never met anyone from HR
A bad Boy, but there's no oversight.
Speaker 4 (46:22):
The boundaries are just completely.
Speaker 5 (46:24):
Gone, and there needs to be a lot of checks
and balances and.
Speaker 4 (46:33):
Accountability.
Speaker 5 (46:34):
There are so many people like Listen, MTV and Viacom
can't probably come forward and say, hey, we are so sorry.
Speaker 4 (46:42):
We had a show on.
Speaker 5 (46:43):
That aired for almost a decade with three different bands
and every single person there's a person in every single
band that has a horrific situation and is suing or
wants an apology, whatever it is, and we're so sorry
we didn't know whatever it is. It would have felt
good to hear they haven't even done that. They likely
(47:05):
can't legally because it will imply them and their names
are listed in the lawsuits of the people that are
suing from the band era. But accountability would go a
long way when I see they're back and forth. The
only thing that just stood out to me is when
you make a bold statement and then you delete it,
it's not a good look in my opinion. Well, have
(47:29):
you guys, ever made a statement about a serious matter
that you were in and then deleted it.
Speaker 1 (47:34):
Oh, it sends a message we just deleted that. That
means somebody gave it a second thought, or they were wrong,
or they jumped the gun or something. That's what it usually.
Speaker 2 (47:41):
Suggests to either regret at the very.
Speaker 1 (47:44):
Least, and we have to get you before we let
you go here. We have to have to have to
ask about one moment that was another in the whole
line of heartbroaking, heartbreaking moments that we saw, which was
when she described did he kicking Cassie while she was
in a fetal position crying silently? After they found out
(48:05):
about him? The kid cut he dating after did he
found out about it? And it was robes what the
call she made to Cassie's mom and then Cassie's mom's
response is the part that kind of stuck.
Speaker 3 (48:17):
Cassie's mom saying, I can't call police, what will you
please help my daughter? That was so incredibly heartbreaking to
see a woman witnessing she claims Diddy kicking a woman
in fetal position crying silently and the mom knowing this
is happening and can still do nothing about it. That
(48:40):
was or yeah, that's a very good point. Won't do anything,
says I can't. That was heartbreaking.
Speaker 2 (48:47):
I can't think of another word for it.
Speaker 5 (48:49):
Actually, soon there's going to be an episode dropping where
I talked to doctor Hilary Goldscher and we had an
incredible conversation about why women stay and the psychology behind
these abusive settings.
Speaker 4 (49:04):
And how.
Speaker 5 (49:06):
Victims almost become paralyzed in them.
Speaker 3 (49:10):
So many issues that not just affect the people in
the arena in the Diddy Empire.
Speaker 2 (49:16):
But also everyone who's faced something like that.
Speaker 3 (49:19):
So we appreciate your constant perspective, Aubrey o Day, and
we will continue to follow the Ditty trial for all
of you listeners.
Speaker 2 (49:27):
Thank you for being with us.
Amy and TJ presents Aubrey Oday covering the Didty trial.
Welcome everybody to Amy and TJ presents Aubrey O'Day covering
the Diddy trial and TJ Holmes here alongside my partner
Amy Robach, and we have been getting help along the
way and covering the Didty trial from someone who has
(00:22):
insight that we definitely right now need robes after we
just finished another full day of testimony in the trial,
and this is certainly one we could use Aubrey's context
in understanding what happened one witness on the stand for
a full day.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Her name is hard to forget. Capricorn Clark and Aubrey.
You read everything that this star witness told jurors yesterday
because she had a lot to say in some ways.
In a lot of ways, she corroborated what we heard
from Cassie Ventura, but she also pokes some holes in
(01:00):
what she testified to at least left some questions for jurors.
What was your overall impression? You know Capricorn, you've met Capricorn,
you've worked alongside Capricorn. What was your take on her
testimony yesterday?
Speaker 4 (01:15):
Her story and what she went through was horrific.
Speaker 5 (01:18):
Her desire to please Diddy and to be great at
her job is exactly as she stated it. From morning
until the next morning at four am, she would work NonStop. Food, water,
and your overall mental health was not really ever considered
over in that area. And so it's not like there
was any professional setting or professional graces given to the employees.
(01:43):
And she established many things from kidnapping that's going to
be playing into the Rico charge. There's violence, weapons breaking, kidnapping,
even the rituals of her day one coming from Death Row,
coming from Sug moving over there. Day one was like
(02:05):
Central Park and if you ever, you know, play with me,
you'll end up dead. Threats of violence, threat threats of death.
And one thing I will say, in the music industry,
especially in hip hop, a lot of people will threaten death.
There's death talking about, you know, talked about a lot
in music. Not many people take that seriously enough to
(02:30):
uh fall in line and do what's needed to be
done for the person that's threatening them. A lot of
people will challenge back or will you know, either make
a spectacle of it in order to sell records, or
they will you know, whatever they choose to do. It's
more of an artistic presentation than it is a fear
(02:51):
in these situations that are being testified to. This is
direct fear. This is nobody understanding. This is a knowledge
from a lot of people now that truly believed that
he'd do exactly as he said he would, Which tells
me that even prior to me being there, that in
the nineties, there has to have been a lot of
information that a lot of people were aware of in
(03:13):
regards to how dangerous this human could be. Potentially, because
the threats of being taken out seemed to have been
very serious to all of these people, they didn't bat
an eye and they didn't think.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
It was false.
Speaker 5 (03:25):
Bravado Capricorn was very interesting because there was always this
dynamic of you know, she there felt like there was
a competitive dynamic, like as if there were if there
were certain people that she felt were in her way
or whatever. There felt, in my opinion, this like you know,
(03:47):
just a dislike.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
So I didn't.
Speaker 5 (03:49):
I was never on the winning side of that. Unfortunately.
Maybe she thought that there was something with me and
Diddy or whatever, but I didn't ever get to see
the winning sides. There were some times where I got
to see like good good aspects of her personality. But
I did notice even in the testimony she was saying
how there were moments where she felt like pushed out
by Cassie and even had moments where she disliked her.
Speaker 4 (04:12):
Then there's moments where she brought her back in.
Speaker 5 (04:14):
But on an overall understanding of Capricorn, I was thinking
that way more was going to be told. She definitely,
in my opinion, kept some things in, possibly because they
don't pertain, or possibly because of other situations.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Legally, I'll repect of something you said at the beginning,
and this could help us understand Capricorn a little better.
She talked about possibly wanting to be a protector or diddy,
and then you were speaking kind of how she was
almost possessive and like nobody gets more attention from him
than I do, or I'm the one that's the gatekeeper.
Which was it or was it a balance of he
(04:52):
just give us some more context for what she felt
she represented and wanted to be the ditty.
Speaker 5 (04:58):
I think there's that balance. So I think she you know,
she did state in her testimony she would know best, right.
She stated in her testimony that she felt protective over him,
that if she wasn't around, that he could get himself
into trouble. That she would like basically handle all the
ins and outs of all the things that were going on,
and a lot of those things apparently could lead to
(05:19):
a lot of trouble for people or for Puff And
so she was like she took her responsibility of protecting
him very seriously. And coming from death Row, which you
know infamously in the nineties the two West and East
battles were Death Row and Bad Boy. Coming from Death
Row moving over to Bad Boy and having a fierce
(05:41):
protection and loyalty to Diddy is there's a lot to
unpack there. This is a human that knows a lot
of things, and I believe that with what she established,
I mean, there are a lot of parts of the story.
She talked about being abused by him, that's another person.
Now she's part of an enterprise of people. There was
(06:03):
somebody with her inside of her of his home. They
established even when Diddy and the other person went inside
Cutty's home and she was left in the car that
she called Cassie from a burner phone. I don't carry
around burner phones, do you I mean, you gotta be
you gotta be into some serious stuff if you're if
you've got a pocket full of burner phones just in case.
(06:25):
I mean, I've never even walked by a burner phone
and thought of purchasing it. So like, you know the
fact that there was just a burner phone ready, and
the she had to sit on his lap with the
gun pointed out at her. I don't I don't understand
the sitting on the lap part. I don't know exactly
what it all says, but I know it says force,
(06:48):
and I know it says coercion. And I know that
a lot of people felt like they were very unsafe
and they weren't willing to challenge that, and they definitely
didn't think that he was just.
Speaker 4 (06:59):
On one and doing the most.
Speaker 5 (07:02):
I think they feel like their lives genuinely would be
in danger. It seems over and over again that we're
establishing that now with multiple people in the enterprise. Now,
if you pay attention in regards to the Rico charge racketeering,
if you pay attention to what happened to Keith in
that Nexium trial, they were able to establish sex trafficking
(07:26):
off of a smaller group of people in a smaller scope,
just a handful of people that basically worked with him
in order to achieve the things that he instructed them
to do that were criminal.
Speaker 4 (07:42):
And next the guy from Nexium's in prison.
Speaker 5 (07:44):
So I think they're getting right about there with reaching
the bar on sex trafficking. Definitely have the possessing people
across state lines. If we're getting into racketeering things like this,
we're talking about kidnapping, we're talking about explosives where we've
(08:06):
now tied everything to everyone, and there are more people
that are being named in every testimony, and it kind
of seems like the trajectory of what the prosecution is
establishing is here's the name. Might not mean anything to
you right now, but it will when we come back
next week, because then we see that person taking the
stand and filling in all of the holes of the picture.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
Aubrey, I'm curious A lot was made of Capricorn's emotions.
She was by everyone who was in the courtroom. Witnesses
described for as uncontrollably sobbing when she was talking about
the emails, when she was begging for forgiveness for him
to let her return. I mean, this is a twenty
(08:50):
year period where she says she experienced to witness all
of these things, and yet even as late as last spring,
she was begging to come back in some role.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
All of that emotion, all of those tears. What did
you think of that?
Speaker 3 (09:05):
Like, you know her, at least you've been around her,
what did you think of that?
Speaker 5 (09:10):
Kind of always said this in different ways. There are
things about Diddy that are all encompassing, and for some people,
when he's proud of you, you almost feel you know.
I talked with a psychologist about that on our podcast,
and she said to me, in your childhood or in general,
(09:34):
if you have any type of abandonment or self confidence
issues in different levels growing up, that when you get
in front of somebody like that, they can really grab
a hold of you. And the second that you are abused, traumatized,
or put in a very scary, fearful situation, your body
almost clings up and goes into shock. And the only
(09:57):
way you ever get that relief is when they come
back you and they want you again. Then you feel
like you've got your life back. If they're doing things
like holding your home, your car, your bank accounts, your laptops,
et cetera. I mean, Capricorn talked about she had a
life and an entire established career, and then she didn't.
And Capricorn was known around the time I was there,
(10:20):
she was a bad bitch. She was running the streets,
she was respected everywhere. She could go around and do
whatever she wanted to do. She knew every I mean
I was. I was intimidated by her, like, let me
not piss her off, because her attitude is real poignant
when she doesn't like you, and when she does like you,
it seems like she looks out for you.
Speaker 4 (10:41):
But she was friends with kim Porter.
Speaker 5 (10:44):
She even wrote in the comment that we read on
in an episode prior that kim Porter was the only
one that stayed a real one to the very end.
I mean, that's an important piece of all of this,
is everything starts to come full circle.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
How much did did he respect, appreciate, or even need
Tepricorn Clark. It sounded like she was really a gatekeeper
for a lot of things.
Speaker 5 (11:10):
There were at that point the gatekeepers that I saw,
besides his big old besides all of the men that
were part of the establishment, some who I can personally
say one sexually assaulted me one sexually assaulted potentially allegedly
(11:32):
one of my band members. There was a lot of
things going on with the men over there. As far
as the women go, I was always we were always
around Capricorn and a woman named Francesca Sparrow who was
found I believed, and that was I don't know how
long of a period after of suing Diddy and bad
Boy for a significant amount of money, and then you know,
(11:57):
when Capricorn got out and fran was out, seems.
Speaker 4 (12:01):
Like KK came in.
Speaker 5 (12:04):
And if you do a little research on some of
the civil suits and some of the claims being made
on the type of things that KK allegedly could have
been involved in, it sounds like he kind of always
had somebody in that role that maybe understood.
Speaker 4 (12:23):
On a deeper level. How and here's the thing.
Speaker 5 (12:26):
Hurt people. Hurt people, right. I had moments where I
saw things. I can't speak about them because Netflix has
the exclusivity on them, but there were times where I
witnessed things that showed a human in pain, suffering a
little bit in my opinion, So if she saw things
(12:49):
like that often, then she might have felt a fierce
loyalty to him, and also It's a commonly known thing
that black women just naturally protect black men. They are
just so historically have been so disenfranchised by the system,
so attacked and brutal brutalized by the system, that there's
(13:12):
just a different type of loyalty that exists in the community.
Then I would necessarily even understand. And so I think
that there probably is many things at play when it
comes to loving somebody and wanting to protect them from
themselves and then also hating them so much.
Speaker 4 (13:37):
For how much they never.
Speaker 5 (13:38):
Really gave a fuck about you, and how much you
sacrificed for them. I think maybe those where those tears
come from. Also, I don't know that. Also, I don't
know how much of her story, you know, was able
to be told on the stand, But when you get
to all of the parts of the story, there were
(13:58):
some personal things that were probably very devastating and horrific
for her to have experienced, and that could potentially also
be where the tears are coming from.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Can I stop you there, because you mentioned it earlier,
we're listening to it from the outside. We just met
Capricorn Clark, you will, just through her testimony. We don't
know much about this lady, but our jarles were dropped
and reading all the testimony, your first reaction was, Wow,
I'm surprised she didn't go further than she did.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Why is that?
Speaker 1 (14:29):
And you kind of alluded to it?
Speaker 5 (14:30):
There?
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Can you expound as much as you can on what
you mean by there's more for her to say that
she didn't say and why she didn't say.
Speaker 5 (14:40):
Somebody else made this statement. It wouldn't have been coming
from any of us in the room. I can just
google quickly an article online and we all know we
have our battles with these articles online. But Suge Knight,
who has also been around all of these people for
a very long time, also isamiliar with Capricorn as she
(15:01):
worked at death Row prior.
Speaker 4 (15:03):
To going to Bad Boy.
Speaker 5 (15:05):
He stated that did he beat the shit out of
that bitch? Is what the title of the article is.
Shug on his podcast Collect Call with Suge Knight Front
that he does from prison, talks about why Puffy done.
What Puffy did or what Puffy do is not a surprise.
(15:27):
Everyone knows what it is. I mean, you got to
be able to that type of shit to a woman
and to other women.
Speaker 4 (15:35):
But it's not like it's news.
Speaker 5 (15:37):
So basically kind of establishing that everyone knows he was
doing this to people all the way back then, same
time he beat the shit out of motherfucking Cassie. This
is a quote not my language. He had an assistant
by the name of Capricorn. He continued. He felt cap
was keeping this shit on the low about if she
was messing with Cutty or not. Puff beat the shit
(15:59):
out of that bitch. Not only did he beat the
shit out of her, it was an interscope person, an
interscope check that paid her to settle so he wouldn't
go to jail.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Does it seem like he's referring to the Central Park
incident she discussed. Maybe she just didn't go into as
much detail about what, at least should Knights has happened.
Speaker 5 (16:21):
It seems like there came a point where she couldn't
take it anymore. I'm not exactly sure what incident that was,
but it sounds like it was so bad that not
even bad Boy or did He could put their name
anywhere near the check that paid her off allegedly. And
(16:42):
when I say to you guys that we need a
systematic change in the music industry. In one man's trial
and potential convictions or not is not going to change anything.
Speaker 4 (16:56):
Is because I don't know what.
Speaker 5 (16:58):
You guys feel about out if what should Knight said
is true and there is a money trail or other
people that are aware of this and confirm it can
confirm it. What do you guys feel about a music
label allegedly picking up the responsibility of someone being so
(17:19):
beaten that it got to a point where jail time
was potentially being considered and the person allegedly involved could
not even pay the person off. And we know that
there's been a whole lot of payments to a whole
lot of people, according to a whole lot of civil
lawsuits eighty over eighty or around eighty to be exact,
(17:40):
so far allegedly. For me, what it feels like is
is like, I don't know, you could potentially I'm not
saying that this was what was done, but I know
when we had platinum albums and we're making people millions
of dollars that we were always told we weren't seeing
any money because it was being recouped.
Speaker 4 (17:59):
That's a word that they love to use, recoop, recoop, recoop.
Speaker 5 (18:02):
I'll never forget the word. It haunts me in my
motherfucking sleep. But if you think about it, if you
had to pay off a big chunk of money to somebody,
you could just recoop it.
Speaker 4 (18:12):
Because at the.
Speaker 5 (18:12):
Time, if what Shug says is true and Innerscope did
make the payment, Interscope was also who was in charge
of dirty money. They were the ones backing the project
to my knowledge, So if a check was made, I'm
not saying that this is what occurred, but I'm sure
in the industry in general, they throw a lot of
different things under that recoop name. You just keep hearing
(18:36):
about the recoop. You never actually really see the check. Well,
so so you know, could somebody's beating have just been
a recoup owed back by them from the artists that they, uh, you.
Speaker 4 (18:51):
Know, represented.
Speaker 5 (18:52):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (18:53):
This is all alleged.
Speaker 5 (18:54):
This is all just me, you know, opinions and us
bantering back and forth about what these things could possibly
mean that people have stated publicly that are in the industry.
But I do remember our manager at one point, a
man that I have a large amount of respect for,
Johnny Wright, had to sit down with me at one
(19:16):
point and he did say to me, you got to
get this group together, and like, you know, the.
Speaker 4 (19:21):
Pressure's on you.
Speaker 5 (19:22):
And I was like, why, we're all equal, we're all stars,
we're all five choosing to not make anyone a lead.
We had to go in and fight for that continuously
vocally on the tracks. And he was like, well, the
audience and the fans have decided it's you, so so
whether you like that or not, it is what it is.
And he said to me, the most replaceable person in
(19:44):
this situation is the artists, the managers, the CPAs, the agents,
the publicists, the A and rs, the record labels. They're
all going to be there for the next twenty five
girl groups after you, and they were there for the
twenty five girl groups before you. The artist is the
most replaceable part. And the sad thing that the fans
(20:07):
don't understand is they loved us.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
They came and paid for.
Speaker 5 (20:12):
The artists for us, and we are the last to
be paid, never were paid in most regards. And the
bigger problem in all of that is we're the most replaceable.
And even if you don't mess it all up, like
they really tried hard to make it a Danity Kane
inner turmoil that couldn't be controlled and it was us
(20:36):
that were to blame.
Speaker 4 (20:36):
You know, Diddy pointed me.
Speaker 5 (20:38):
Out specifically because in my opinion, now that I've seen
more and understand more of what was going on during
that time, it's likely that they needed my fan base
to turn against me and to move on to a
new project that he was moving one of my bandmates onto. Potentially,
in my opinion, that could be something.
Speaker 4 (20:56):
That was going on.
Speaker 5 (20:58):
But I know that in all of these situations that
when an artist is the most replaceable part, that there's
something wrong with the music industry, the business.
Speaker 4 (21:12):
There's something wrong with that.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
I know.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
Something you talked about Aubrey was being blacklisted once you
were fired from Danity Kane by Diddy.
Speaker 4 (21:31):
And Capricorn said that too.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
Absolutely what we heard from Capricorn on the stand, So
that was an interesting oversation she had, or at least
the testimony she was giving, talking about being blacklisted and
perhaps one of the reasons why she kept coming back because.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
She said she could not find work.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
She describes being followed while she was at the Creative
Artist Agency, literally being tailed and trailed and incapable of
finding work. That reads true for you because your experience
was similar guess.
Speaker 5 (22:02):
Yeah, my experience was more humiliating, but yeah, a bunch
of record labels saying they want me, having me meet
up at the Beverly Hills Hotel, asking me to dance,
putting on track after track into a room full of
like forty people passing a blunt around. I remember dancing
so hard at one point I knocked a lamp off
(22:23):
a table. I was trying my damn just to they
just I just remember I have nightmares in my head
from the j LO song that they kept on repeat.
I'll if when I hear it, I want to, like
I get I could be dead danger to myself when
that song comes on.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
You gotta tell what song?
Speaker 5 (22:39):
Oh god, I can't even I don't even want to
think about it. But the song that was put on
one of them in repeat was a j Lo's song,
and I just like, after a few eight counts it
usually stops, but it just wasn't stopping. And then you know,
the personallyaves the room, comes back in and is like, oh,
we just got the call, like you're you're untouchable, Hey,
(23:00):
thanks for coming in, and me just being like mortified
and humiliated, and I didn't understand even at the time,
and it was a really big uh it was.
Speaker 4 (23:11):
It was a comedy bit for them.
Speaker 5 (23:14):
For me, I thought that I failed, and I was
whipping my head around and doing spins so hard that
I was knocking shit off of tables.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
Sweet okay, let's well fix It speaks to Ditty's reach power.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
He had still wondering about was j Lo song But
we will we will ask you about that later. Let's
get back to Capricorn for a second. Of such a
central part of her testimony had to do with her
being the one that was there. She was a witness
to the night that did he allegedly went to Cuddie's
house broke In was upset about finding out that Cuddy
was dating Cassid. Now, the big part of this is
(23:47):
that she says she was not a willing passenger along
for that ride.
Speaker 5 (23:52):
No, he showed up at her apartment for the very
first time. He had never gone there with the gun,
fold her in the car, made her sit on his
lap with the gun. I don't know how she snuck
a burner phone, but somehow she had a burner phone
was able to warn Cassie and Cutty that they were
in his house well.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Before they left. Let's do that chronologically. Yes, we're going
to get to that point. But even before they left
the house. This is very key because they're arguing. The
defense is that she went willingly because she considered herself
his protector and didn't want him to do something stupid.
She says, she was absolutely not a willing participant and
was forced to go. That's key because was she kidnapped
(24:32):
or not? What did you make of how she handled testifying?
Were you there to protect them or were you there
against you will?
Speaker 5 (24:40):
Yeah, that's complicated to me. What you just said made
my head recognizing consistency.
Speaker 4 (24:46):
I didn't realize it was one or the other.
Speaker 5 (24:48):
I thought that she had testified to being forced into
the car by a gunpoint, and.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
The defense called her on. They said, well, previously, you
stated that you were his protector and you wanted to
go with him that night because you quote didn't want
him to do something stupid. They recalled that from a
previous statement she made.
Speaker 4 (25:06):
In that previous interview.
Speaker 5 (25:08):
Was that was she talking specifically in regards to this
night in this event or was it it just an
overall that night in that event.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
Yeah, she doesn't remember making that statement, but the defense
said you did.
Speaker 5 (25:21):
Well. Let me tell you one bit of grace that
I give a lot of people. When this first happened,
not one person thought that anything would change. Once the
settlement went down, within like twenty four hours, it was gone.
Everyone like had twenty four hours where they were like,
oh my god, justice could be real.
Speaker 4 (25:42):
And then when it stopped, everyone sunk back and.
Speaker 5 (25:45):
Was like, I guess we all are just gonna still
be living in the lie. And then when the investigators came,
there was hope. Then people thought that you know, everybody
on this everybody in this streets had word and talks
to whoever they talked to, and it was rumored that
the indictment would happen at a certain time, and it
(26:06):
wasn't happening, and then all of a sudden it happens,
and then they you know, the raid happens, the indictment
happens during that, and then the Cassie video drops. The
Cassie video drop allowed a lot of people to feel
safer to come forward. But when I tell you that
people were very scared. It was a real thing. If
(26:28):
you knew anything about his behavior, if you had any
proof of his behavior, if you were there or witnessed
or was on the other end of any of his
behavior from smaller to very very large, were learning you
were scared. I had people literally saying, oh, what is
this bo was this bit scared of? Blah blah blah.
(26:49):
Well watch the Netflix documentary and you'll be able to
hear what I was scared of.
Speaker 4 (26:54):
But the periods of scared TJ.
Speaker 5 (26:56):
I mean, I don't know how many pictures of license
plates I have on my phone of cars outside my
home that I had never seen for months. At one point,
I literally got a knife out of my kitchen and
walked outside my gate and just waved it in the
air and went to every single car, like, listen, you
do not live on the street. You have been parked
(27:18):
here with your phone up for the past two hours.
Who the fuck are you and what is it that
you want? Like the paranoia was seeping in. I would
ask my boyfriend at the time, am I being a
Karen or is this real? And then there was something
that occurred that he called me about. Uh Pros from
the Fujis Pros called me at one point and he
was like, you might be right to feel like you're
(27:40):
in danger. I would go to a hotel for a second.
He had inside it. He had some type of information
that I didn't know about. And that was the first
time that I realized, like, oh, okay, so you know,
maybe I'm not doing the most. It was hard to tell.
Speaker 4 (27:56):
It was very scary.
Speaker 5 (27:57):
So when you asked me that if I see a
small thing like I was trying to protect him, that
could be at a state where you don't know what's
really going to happen with this man, and then when
he gets fully taken out, you now know.
Speaker 4 (28:11):
Okay, I'm saying.
Speaker 5 (28:12):
Even when I spoke with Homeland Security, they told me
anything that you say in this interview you'd have to
say on the on the stand, and there's no we
don't get a like edit. What you say is what
it is. So if there's something you don't want to say,
don't say it because there's no editing and there's no
(28:32):
go backs. This is a one time thing. They don't
give you any information. They give nobody. I mean, I
asked them, was the story that happened with me true?
They could not tell me anything. They made it clear
they would never be able to tell me any of that. So,
so when you're talking to them. There's still even I
still had a fear of naming certain people that were
(28:53):
around during certain things because I thought, if he doesn't
get taken under and these people do get together there,
I could be in a lot of trouble. But for
sure I'd never work again.
Speaker 3 (29:05):
When you see with all of that, your personal experience,
knowing all of that and fearing a lot of that,
when you see Capricorn get up and testify, how.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Much courage does that take?
Speaker 3 (29:17):
I mean, she is looking directly at Ditty when she
or at least he's right there in front of her
when she's testifying to all of this.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
Can you imagine knowing her knowing Ditty being around them both,
what that must have been like?
Speaker 5 (29:32):
Worse than anyone can ever imagine, because I think she
knows so much more and the scope of this is
just where the scope of this is.
Speaker 4 (29:39):
But I also.
Speaker 5 (29:41):
Think there's some part of her that feels the way
I do, in the sense that you know, you asked
me the first day, TJ, where does the sympathy lay
with this person? Not every day was bad? So and
also a good day with him is a better day
than you could have with anybody else in life.
Speaker 4 (30:00):
So it's hard to.
Speaker 5 (30:03):
Match the extremes of that man. And there's there she's
been tortured. Imagine if it's true what Shug has suggested happened,
and she was given enough potentially compensation to take care
of herself, and whatever occurred, You're still living in a
(30:25):
world that idolizes a man. You still see his billboards
every time you get to hear him that he's now
changed his name to love. Do you know how disgusting
that could be for so many of us. That's why
I went on mass singer and said, this belongs to
us now for a man that you know as Oh
the love hearts went on to know that, to know
(30:49):
the evil ways of somebody, to see that and hear
if you know him and you still talk to people
to hear and know in the streets that behavior is
still allegedly still rolling on like usual, at least according
to a lot of the civil suits, it appears that way.
If you know allegedly, it would probably be a very
(31:13):
hard thing to know that he just took over the
one name that is a universal feeling of goodness and
warmth and joy and love. It's the best thing that
you can have on this Earth, and that motherfucking man
named himself that legally and took the signage and made
(31:35):
it his. He is still I'm I'm was watching one
of the court the people that draw those awful pictures
of all of them looking hectic. Yeah, I was watching
her on an interview and she was saying that how
much Diddy is really like playing it up in court.
He's like blowing love hearts to the kids, He's chatting
(31:57):
it up with his team, he's talking to interviewers. Is
he's walking out to new sites as he's walking out
like he's really starting to get There are a lot
of reports suggesting that he's giving more of a showmanship
in the room lately. And like, I don't know if
I had mentioned this to you guys, but you know,
coming forward and saying we're respectfully not going to cross
(32:21):
Cassie's mom. That's not because they couldn't come up with
something that's definitely a move. Because they feel like maybe
they got somebody at least one in that jury that
is potentially in their favor, and all they need is
one and a move like that could really make the
man be seen as Wow, he wouldn't even go after
someone's mom.
Speaker 4 (32:40):
That's a really nice thing to do.
Speaker 5 (32:43):
And wow, look at his mom's sitting behind him, and
all his kids are there. This A lot of people
sure do love this man. And these are a lot
of horrific things we're hearing. It could confuse somebody, and
these details are horrific. These details are very much alone
with the charges that he has been charged with.
Speaker 4 (33:02):
Frankly, yet this understanding.
Speaker 5 (33:06):
Of whether he really is good or really is bad
is what I think the both prosecution that needs to
probably do a little bit less of and more of
the proof of the coercion in the force and the
racketeering stuff which they're doing. And then I think the
defense is really going to probably rest on more of
(33:27):
the poking holes.
Speaker 4 (33:31):
And you really like this guy.
Speaker 5 (33:34):
There's he was a drug addict and he had bad phases,
but really that lovable side which I told you there
is that check in with that man. He is a human.
That check in could confuse one person. And it's eight
men and four women, And no disrespect to you, TJ,
but men get it wrong a lot, a lot.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
You hear that a lot. We disagree with that, though,
but we do hear that lot. Back to the incident.
That night, she gets taken from the home. She says
she's heading They're going to Cutty's house. He goes in
with the security guard to Cutty's house. But we mentioned
off the top of here she talked about the first
day on the job, he threatened to kill her, threatened
(34:16):
the killer. Later Keller threatened to kill her and Cuddy
and Cassie. You talked earlier about sometimes in the industry,
you know, we're familiar with rap beefs, and sometimes people
rap about killing this person. That's one thing, But did you,
in your opinion, when he's threatening to kill somebody in
these situations, this is not rap bravado, This is not
(34:36):
wrap beef you think people had he was for real.
Speaker 5 (34:40):
Yeah, if he wasn't for real, people would have just
laughed it off. Nobody would have been buying burner phones,
Nobody would have been hiding out, not saying certain things
around him, not upsetting him. I mean, one thing that
stood out to me, and it won't make sense until
the Netflix documentary comes out, but there was something they
said in her exchange about how her Capricorn and Lauren
(35:04):
London were in the kitchen talking about why they don't
have a man, and Diddy tells Cassie to go into
wherever he was, and he displays in front of these women.
To Cassie, he says, stand up, sit down, turn to
the left, turn to the right, go look this way,
look that way, whatever the commands were, and then he
looked over at them and said, that's why you don't
(35:26):
have a man. And there are things that there are
actual pieces of proof that suggest that that is very
much the way in which the expectations for females to
behave was. And I don't think you were kept around
(35:46):
for long if you wanted to act differently.
Speaker 3 (35:50):
Something that Capricorn testified to in cross examination was jarring
to us and certainly jaw dropping. But when the defense
attorneys asked her to recount, or to paraphrase, at least,
they asked her if this were in fact true, that
(36:10):
she was recounting a conversation that she had with Cassie,
and she was telling in the statement that she was
begging Cassie to leave Dinny. You gotta leave him, you
gotta leave. You can't stay with him anymore after everything
she had seen, and what her remark was or what
(36:31):
her testimony was that Cassie said this, jay Z is taken,
who would I date? And the lawyer said, is that
what Cassie Ventura said? Did Cassie Ventura say to you,
jay Z is taken? Who else would I date?
Speaker 5 (36:44):
And she said, yes, Well, here's a bigger picture thought,
because that is a hard one to lay into. Does
it matter if somebody wanted to be with someone rich
and powerful and wanted to be with somebody at the
top in regards to any of these charges, No, what
(37:09):
type of aspirational woman she was, what she valued or
what she wanted in a boyfriend, and it could have
just been a joke. But either way, if it wasn't
a joke, and she did have an aspiration of being
with the biggest and the best, which frankly a lot
of people do. Look at you, you got TJTJ. You
got amy biggest and best. Somebody fought for it, other
(37:32):
people fight for it at different levels. To me, it's
neither here nor there. It doesn't It doesn't have anything
to do with kidnapping with weapons, robbery or invade home invasion.
Speaker 4 (37:49):
And car bombing and.
Speaker 5 (37:52):
Continuous amounts of I mean, he locked Capricorn up for
in a was it a co instruction building for like
five days when jewelry went missing. That's not a normal
thing for a boss to do. When jewelry's misplaced.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
The light detector test and a man by a.
Speaker 5 (38:09):
Lie detector test. I mean, let's be real now, light
detector tests aren't even admissible in court.
Speaker 4 (38:14):
Who would even do something like that.
Speaker 5 (38:16):
I don't think that that had anything to do with
her finally getting it right. I think it had to
do with look at the degrees in which I will
go to make sure that you know to never cross me.
It's coercion.
Speaker 3 (38:30):
Yeah, and I was just curious what you thought because
you were just speaking to It only takes one duror.
It only takes one duror. And if you were now
throwing some sort of holes or at least in terms
of was she complicit? Was she really doing all of
this against her will? Was she actually being coerced and
forced to do these freak offs and forced to endure
(38:52):
all of this abuse. If she's actually saying, hey, it's
worth it because I get what I want in the end.
I want to be with the richard, powerful guy. I
love this luxurious lifestyle. Yeah, I might have to enter
X Y and Z, but I'll do it because I
want this. That was the concern, or at least I'm
sure that's what the defense's goal was, to least eat
(39:12):
it out in wonder, who thinks you know what?
Speaker 2 (39:15):
She wanted it, She asked for it, she was complicit
in it.
Speaker 5 (39:18):
So let me say two things about that. My first
one being there have been plenty of things that have
shown she was not complicit in everything, So that's a
wash right there. Second thing I would say is, as
you were talking, it was bringing all these thoughts up
in regards to there were a lot of things said
to people that are still acting like they want to
(39:39):
stay far away from this trial, that know a good
about about what was happening, and you.
Speaker 4 (39:43):
Know who you are, and they were.
Speaker 5 (39:49):
There was very specific attempts at trying to divide us,
just as Danity Kane let alone the women that were
being that dated. I mean, it sounds like there was
the vision that was being constantly woven between Kim and Cassie.
I would witness during making the band, whenever Kim came
to watch us, Cassie was drug out. Whether she wanted
(40:11):
to be there or not, she was taken out and
put in the stairwell or the hallway or whatever. Kim
wasn't going to be in a room with her, and
Kim came first. And then when you see Capricorn saying
Cassie got rid of me, Cassie got in there, and
she felt mad about Cassie doing that and thought Cassie
would get rid of her. It seems like instead of
(40:32):
women joining together, which is what we're seeing now right,
potentially a lot of women, whether they liked each other
or not, taking the stand and telling their story with
a lot of bravery, and their story seemed pretty consistent,
and they're not allowed to talk with each other to
come up with anything. You're not allowed to speak to
another victim when you have been approached by Homeland security.
(40:53):
So at that point, you're seeing all these women now
with so much bravery coming forward and talking about all
their experience, and they're all kind of the same, and
they all are also are saying there was jealousy amongst them.
But I don't know that it's necessarily a woman's state
and a healthy environment to just dislike all.
Speaker 4 (41:12):
The women around.
Speaker 5 (41:14):
Usually we learn ourselves through the mirror of the men
that are looking at us and if you're being mirrored
back by the men that were around when I was there,
I feel very worried about what you may think you
are or what you may think you have to be
in order to be appreciated. But it definitely wasn't best
friends with the girls sitting across from you. Divide and
(41:35):
conquer was a very good strategy that was used over there,
and in my opinion, and it obviously worked well. However,
now that we're in a federal trial and there's plenty
of people that established they're not friends anymore. They were
jealous of each other, they didn't like each other, but
the patterns of abuse coercion force these extreme situations that
(41:57):
everybody is discussing. Some people even are still going up
there liking him, but they still saw all the stuff happening.
There's enough. There's enough employees involved, there's enough, there's enough
people that were setting things up, there's enough people helping
possess people across state lines.
Speaker 4 (42:17):
There's enough things going.
Speaker 5 (42:18):
On where a lot of these charges are being really
established right now.
Speaker 3 (42:24):
Well, one thing's for sure is Capricorn's testimony on Tuesday
was for us at least jaw dropping and and it's
remarkable you think about how they've been calling all these witnesses.
It was just her all day and she captivated everyone
who was listening.
Speaker 5 (42:40):
And the new her is after her would have been KK.
So let's see if KK takes the stand, because KK
will would be probably just as shocking. Now. I don't
know if she stays on H Diddy's side or not,
but in some of the civil suits, some things are
alleged that are criminal behavior, So if she's looking for immunity,
(43:04):
she might want to get on that stand allegedly.
Speaker 3 (43:16):
There is certainly a lot more to come in city trial,
but there is actually something that was going on behind
the scenes from one of the women who took this
stand last week.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
Don Rochard.
Speaker 3 (43:28):
Can you fill us in what's going on or what
happened between Don Rochard and Q, who we had on
the podcast earlier, who also alleges to be a victim
in a lot of ways from the Diddy empire and
what he believes happened to him.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
But what was going on between Q and Dawn on
social media?
Speaker 5 (43:48):
So to basically summarize the online exchange between Q and down,
Q posted over the weekend. His post was meant to
clarify the things he told us on the podcast last week,
things that he's been saying for a long time. After that,
Don posted in response to Q's post, denying she had
anything to do with his allegations. Then Q responded to
(44:11):
her post claiming that there was video evidence. Once he
posted the fact that he had receipts, Don then took
her post down. So because of that interview, all of
that occurred over the weekend, and then Don took down
her posts. So I don't know, guys, what do you
think about that? What do you think specifically about the
(44:34):
behavior of making a statement and then retracting it or
they're being video proof, So what do you guys think
about that?
Speaker 1 (44:43):
You know, the back and forth. It's hard to look
at a lot of anybody in this case. Once you
start listening to them. Everybody seems like a victim. Everybody
seems like they were in pain. Everybody seems like they
were hurt in some way. And yes, including Diddy, yes
he was at the top of this chain. Some of
the stuff they describe in his behavior sounds oh maniacal,
(45:05):
and it does sound like somebody strung adult drugs. This
is not a suggestion at all that he is not
guilty of something, is not responsible for what we all
saw on that video. But this sounds like an ugly
It sounds like hell on earth. But from the outside,
it all looked like a world that was glamorous and
we wanted to be a party in. This is disgusting,
I'll be honest with you. The more we learn about it,
(45:26):
that's just an ugly, ugly world. And I hope this
shit is not still going on to people that were
your age. Are we going to get in it or
even younger?
Speaker 5 (45:33):
PJ.
Speaker 4 (45:34):
Let me just cut in right there.
Speaker 5 (45:36):
Allegedly it is we need a cultural reshift. This is
a sick, sick situation when you have people that have
dreams and music is different than other professions in the
sense that when you guys went to show up for
your job every day, you are in very corporate settings
with very professional people. In these settings, you're in the
(45:57):
studio till three am. If a producer wants to smoke
weed in the room, you got to run to the
stairwell to.
Speaker 4 (46:03):
Breathe if you don't want to get high because you
don't like that.
Speaker 5 (46:06):
Because they get to do what they want to do,
they're recording the song.
Speaker 4 (46:09):
It's their track, it's their life.
Speaker 5 (46:11):
There's no the boundaries are almost nonexistent, no overs there's
no oversight. I mean I never met anyone from HR
A bad Boy, but there's no oversight.
Speaker 4 (46:22):
The boundaries are just completely.
Speaker 5 (46:24):
Gone, and there needs to be a lot of checks
and balances and.
Speaker 4 (46:33):
Accountability.
Speaker 5 (46:34):
There are so many people like Listen, MTV and Viacom
can't probably come forward and say, hey, we are so sorry.
Speaker 4 (46:42):
We had a show on.
Speaker 5 (46:43):
That aired for almost a decade with three different bands
and every single person there's a person in every single
band that has a horrific situation and is suing or
wants an apology, whatever it is, and we're so sorry
we didn't know whatever it is. It would have felt
good to hear they haven't even done that. They likely
(47:05):
can't legally because it will imply them and their names
are listed in the lawsuits of the people that are
suing from the band era. But accountability would go a
long way when I see they're back and forth. The
only thing that just stood out to me is when
you make a bold statement and then you delete it,
it's not a good look in my opinion. Well, have
(47:29):
you guys, ever made a statement about a serious matter
that you were in and then deleted it.
Speaker 1 (47:34):
Oh, it sends a message we just deleted that. That
means somebody gave it a second thought, or they were wrong,
or they jumped the gun or something. That's what it usually.
Speaker 2 (47:41):
Suggests to either regret at the very.
Speaker 1 (47:44):
Least, and we have to get you before we let
you go here. We have to have to have to
ask about one moment that was another in the whole
line of heartbroaking, heartbreaking moments that we saw, which was
when she described did he kicking Cassie while she was
in a fetal position crying silently? After they found out
(48:05):
about him? The kid cut he dating after did he
found out about it? And it was robes what the
call she made to Cassie's mom and then Cassie's mom's
response is the part that kind of stuck.
Speaker 3 (48:17):
Cassie's mom saying, I can't call police, what will you
please help my daughter? That was so incredibly heartbreaking to
see a woman witnessing she claims Diddy kicking a woman
in fetal position crying silently and the mom knowing this
is happening and can still do nothing about it. That
(48:40):
was or yeah, that's a very good point. Won't do anything,
says I can't. That was heartbreaking.
Speaker 2 (48:47):
I can't think of another word for it.
Speaker 5 (48:49):
Actually, soon there's going to be an episode dropping where
I talked to doctor Hilary Goldscher and we had an
incredible conversation about why women stay and the psychology behind
these abusive settings.
Speaker 4 (49:04):
And how.
Speaker 5 (49:06):
Victims almost become paralyzed in them.
Speaker 3 (49:10):
So many issues that not just affect the people in
the arena in the Diddy Empire.
Speaker 2 (49:16):
But also everyone who's faced something like that.
Speaker 3 (49:19):
So we appreciate your constant perspective, Aubrey o Day, and
we will continue to follow the Ditty trial for all
of you listeners.
Speaker 2 (49:27):
Thank you for being with us.
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
True Crime Tonight
If you eat, sleep, and breathe true crime, TRUE CRIME TONIGHT is serving up your nightly fix. Five nights a week, KT STUDIOS & iHEART RADIO invite listeners to pull up a seat for an unfiltered look at the biggest cases making headlines, celebrity scandals, and the trials everyone is watching. With a mix of expert analysis, hot takes, and listener call-ins, TRUE CRIME TONIGHT goes beyond the headlines to uncover the twists, turns, and unanswered questions that keep us all obsessed—because, at TRUE CRIME TONIGHT, there’s a seat for everyone. Whether breaking down crime scene forensics, scrutinizing serial killers, or debating the most binge-worthy true crime docs, True Crime Tonight is the fresh, fast-paced, and slightly addictive home for true crime lovers.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com