January 16, 2025 • 36 mins
One of the most consequential and controversial couples from Bachelor Nation has announced their break up after 4 years of dating.
Matt James made it official in an early morning instagram post.
T.J. and Amy react to their friends’ split.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey, there are folks in this episode when heartbreak makes headlines,
Matt and Rachel have decided to end their relationship. And
with that, folks, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ. Yes,
Matt James and Rachel Kirconnell, the controversial but couple at
the center of season twenty five of The Bachelor, have
(00:23):
after four years now ropes decided to call it quits.
And we got this word just a short time ago
from Matt himself in an Instagram post announcing it. Can
I ask you first? You pointed it out to me
because you follow and you keep up with stuff on Instagram.
What was your reaction when you saw it? Oh?
Speaker 2 (00:42):
I was heartbroken.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
You know, it's something that so many people have followed
over the past four years. But we know Matt intimately
and well, and he has been a huge source of
support for us individually and as a couple ever since
we went through through our situation a few years ago,
and so he is considered a close friend of ours
(01:08):
and we're always rooting for him, and if that means
him going his separate ways, then obviously we support that.
But it's still sad to see a couple that we
were rooting for, and that I think America was rooting for.
So I've felt sad and his post definitely shows that
(01:31):
he's sad too. He's hurting too. Breakups are hard, tough decisions.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Yeah, this is one. If you hell again, this is
a significant period of time that this relationship has been together.
This is not a This wasn't a new something that
was blossoming again four plus years that season was my goodness,
twenty twenty one is when it aired. But plenty of
headlines if folks been following them, they seemed great, seemed happy,
(01:58):
at least if you were following them in news, head
and social media. But his social media posts, we will
let you know how we all found out the news
that Matt and Rachel we're ending that relationship. It was
from a post early this morning.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Yes, on Instagram, and it shows a picture actually of
the two of them meeting for the first time on
The Bachelor. So this was from twenty twenty and it's
a joyful that first moment when you meet the person
who you think, at one point you may spend the
rest of your life with. And that certainly is the
look these two are giving each other in this picture.
He chose, and his caption reads this, Father, God, give
(02:34):
Rachel and I strength to mend our broken hearts. Give
us a piece about this decision to end our relationship
that transcends worldly understanding. Shower our friends and family with
kindness and love to comfort us and remind us that
our joy comes from you, Lord. And then he has
a broken heart emoji after that, and he turned the
(02:54):
comments off.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Yeah, and that's done by a guy who's been through it,
who's been through a lot publicly. Look, these are human beings.
We don't folks we see on TV and a public eye.
This is someone Think about any breakup you had in
your life and how much that hurt, even if you
(03:17):
were the one who initiated the breakup. Breakups are still difficult,
and certainly if you have this many years put into it,
But then to have to go through the relationship they
had in a public manner is certainly something we can
attest to is difficult. But then what they went through
initially on the show with the controversy, these two have
been through some fire together and publicly, and I think
(03:39):
that is why, in a lot of ways, I think
this will come as a shock. It'll come as a
shock to a lot of people. If you've been following
on social media, these two are everywhere together, playing, having fun, eating, traveling,
and so this that might be the reason that comes
to the shock to people.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
Babe the post and look, I know, we know that
what you put out on social media is the best
version of yourself most of the time, the best of times.
You aren't normally posting about or talking about the fight
you just had or the deep seated problem you're trying
to work through. So we get that all relationships have
those different layers that you aren't necessarily showing.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
But I think for me, the announcement.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
I was expecting from Matt was an engagement and there's
a reason for us to have felt that way. I mean, look,
the post he put up ten hours actually twelve hours
before the announcement that they broke up, was a picture
of the two of them eating pizza in London together,
And all of the posts before that, which were almost daily,
(04:43):
were the two of them together, laughing, talking, smiling, eating,
enjoying each other, having pet names for one another. So
it is a little jarring given that the last post
was one of love and joy or seeming and maybe
that still existed. Maybe they've realized they're better friends than lovers.
I mean, there were so many things that could go
(05:04):
into it, but it is definitely shocking, especially when you
look at Rachel's last post. It was Matt's birthday, which
was recent December fifth. It was just a little over
a month ago. And if you don't mind, I'm going
to read her caption from I guess what would be
five weeks ago, six weeks ago, happiest of birthdays to
my best friend, my teammate, my souex chef, the man
(05:26):
that has my whole heart you feel it and my
tummy with so much love and laughter, and I'm so
thankful I get to dance through this life with you.
Thank you for never ending love and support and smooches
and snuggles to many more adventures. Happy birthday, my pumpkin.
And he teased and wrote a caption saying I'm your pumpkin,
(05:46):
and then he called her chicken, so they were using petne.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
This is just a few weeks ago, so yes, so.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Look, will you never and ever ever know what's going
on behind the scenes? And look, I can tell you
they weren't just putting on public click we could confirm
that for one hundred percent sure, but not only could
you speculate and hope and wonder that the next announcement
was going to be one about an engagement. He flat
(06:14):
out as they say these things they I mean, he
was on the show earlier on on our podcast, and
he's not shy about saying, yes, marriage is next, and
marriage is what we're thinking. We're talking about this, and
that the planning was being done for a future together.
Things happened behind the scenes, and it doesn't mean it
has to be nasty. It doesn't mean something had to
(06:35):
somebody had to have done something wrong. Sometimes you just
come to this realization and it could have happened late
or very recently. I mean, so yes, those posts could
have been one hundred percent accurate for what they were
feeling and experiencing at the time and something changed or
conversation became different. So we're not going to speculate on
the reasons.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
No, No, And we know Matt well enough to say
this with confidence. He is an authentic dude. He is
not putting on a show for Instagram followers or to
make things seem better than they are. And so I
believe that if six weeks ago, they were both speaking
as if they were looking forward to the future, excited
(07:14):
about their lives together. Then that was the case six
weeks ago. I mean in October they were on a
podcast as you I think you kind of referenced there
that they are talking. They were talking publicly and candidly
about getting engaged, because if you follow them on Instagram,
you know that they've been through They're in that time
or that phase in their life where everyone's getting married.
(07:36):
So they were constantly going to a lot of Rachel's friends' weddings,
and Matt even joked about it. I think he couldn't
come to one of our events or something we had
invited him too, because he was going to get another
wedding with Rachel.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
But I think another time he skipped the wedding so
we could do something with him.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
I think he did a podcast with us and he
skipped the wedding. But there was you know, you go
through your late twenties, early thirties, everyone's getting engaged, everyone's
getting married. So he was even speaking two months ago
about having had so many Rachel's friends going through engagements.
He said, I wouldn't dare go look at a ring
without consulting Rachel first. But he's clearly said when they
asked about him getting married or them getting married, he said,
(08:13):
I think that's the next step. Again, this is two
months ago, and so then Rachel even went on to say,
I have the finger ready. I feel that's definitely something
we want, but I'm on his time. And so I
think she made it very clear that she was ready, ready, ready.
She said, my problem is I definitely need to go
find a ring I like and everything, but that's on
(08:34):
him at this point. So you know, she was saying, hey,
I'm ready, and he indicated that he was too, or
he was getting ready.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Look, and we talk about this stuff publicly, and this
is look walking a fine line here because there's obviously
some stuff that we are privy to behind the scenes
and from a personal standpoint with Matt over the years
now oh dang god, it's been four or five years
now with Matt. But so I do want to make
sure we're respectful of that relationship. But I can say
(09:05):
that stuff he's putting out publicly is also what he
was saying privately. Yes, it's been talking plenty with him
about marriage and future and Rachel and where they were
going what they were going to be plenty So it
was in line publicly and privately with the things you
were saying. It sucks any breakup you're always rooting for. Well,
I am at least right, I'm still rooting for Jalo
(09:27):
and Ben. We've seen a number of celebrity or high
profile breakups here lately. But the way this one came
together because we first started interviewing this cat in twenty
twenty or twenty twenty one. So Season twenty five with
the Bachelor launched in January of twenty twenty one.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
Yeah, it was filming in twenty twenty during the pandemic
and all of that, but everybody was kind of glued
to their TVs in a way maybe they weren't before
because of the pandemic.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Okay, so you throw in the pandemic, and you throw
in the fact he's the first black Bachelor. This was huge,
Like this was an event. His season was wild, everybody
paying attention, and he is as charming and intelligentic and
ready for that show. He was a perfect bachelor to
be honest.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
With you, you really he really was and is Yeah, oh.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
In his background, just everything about this dude. You just love.
And then, of course came the controversy in the season
because pictures came out about one of his finalists, Rachel
Kreconnell Antebellum party while she was in college in the South.
Those pictures came out, she was accused of being a
racist and participating in this thing. That controversy hit. The
(10:38):
problem there is Robes. The show taped so early, so
the shape show was done taping, he had already picked somebody.
Just the public didn't.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Know he had already picked her. He had already picked Rachel.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
That's the problem. We didn't know that. So then these
pictures come out while she was just a finalist, and
I think a lot of people behind the show freaked out,
Oh shit, everybody hates this girl and she's the one
(11:13):
that he ended it so to some degree, and I
think that's where Chris Harrison came in and he started
to kind of defend her a little bit. Is that
a fair way?
Speaker 3 (11:23):
Well, I think the I think the point because he
knew the outcome right, and he was fully invested in
the show in multiple ways, not just being the host,
but being a part of this franchise for two decades,
So he was trying to amend I believe the pr
that was blowing up in defense of the show, probably
first and foremost, and also of Matt and Rachel, because
(11:46):
he knew them and liked them, and so he thought
he was doing a solid for them.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
But it came out terribly wrong. It came out up.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
It ended up ending his career on the show. And
the other Rachel Yes, Yes Lindsay.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Rachel Lindsay, he did an interview with her on her
entertainment show and came off as if he's defending racist Behaviorrent.
He got into a little back and forth with Rachel Lindsay,
and that moment probably hurt Rachel Kirconnell and Matt James'
relationship even more because it blew up the controversy into
an even bigger one to a great degree. So they
(12:26):
ended up. Matt and they broke up for a little while. Yeah,
and I applauded them for getting back together, but it
was all you were saying here. It was such a
strain on their relationship that controversy that it ended them
the first time around.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
And they've talked about that.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
That that that public pressure of what people thought about
them about her absolutely influenced that, and then he even
talked about in that same interview a few months ago
in October on that podcast, about pressure, and.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
He said, we're doing great.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
I feel like when you feel pressure, it's when you
don't want to do something. So he said he never
felt pressure to get engaged because it's something he's always
wanted to do and it's something that we're gonna do
at some point. He said, that's why we're together, that's
what we're working toward. I'm excited about our future. But
he talked about that very same pressure as being part
of the reason why they broke up the first time.
But because they'd been through it, because they got through it,
(13:20):
because they worked through it, they felt more solid than
ever continuing their relationship.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
I was and you know what, that gave me confidence
as well. I did not think they would actually get
back through that first breakup. Oh yeah, I was like, Okay,
I get it. I actually get it, and I got
why as a black man, he would have a difficult
time maybe trying to reconcile what his girlfriend had done,
trying to explain it to his family or his friends,
(13:46):
and trying to say no, she's okay, you trust me,
and again at that point, they didn't know each other
that well, right, I have a history with you that
no matter what you do today, I have a foundation
of who you are. I don't think they knew each
other well enough at that time.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
And I think anytime you meet somebody, We've watched enough
reality TV to know that there are always those questions
among the contestants as.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
To who is there for the right reasons, who.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Is there to get a larger following on social media,
who was there to become an influencer, And so you
can see where that could have played into.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
All of it as well.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Where you're not who you think you are, You're not
who you say you are because I don't know you.
But they Yeah, four years together is no small thing
in the public eye after all of that to get through.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
I mean, I think people know this, We know it
really well. But that was a lot of strain on
that relationship from responsibilities from I mean personal and public responsibilities,
from living situation. They're in several different places and bouncing
around states, so coordinating all that can be difficult as well,
but they always always, in my opinion, even behind the scenes,
(14:54):
every relationship has an issue of sulf. Of course, no
nobody is perfect, but I held out hope you put
money on it, I would have bet for an engagement
was going to be the next thing we heard versus
a breakup.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
A one hundred percent my way, and that's absolutely what
I would have thought as well, hearing how he speaks
of her and spoke of her, And you know, you
make the point we've talked about this.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
They were kind.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
Of in a long distance relationship because they never I
don't believe from our understanding, they never actually lived in
the same.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Town full time.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
That's tough.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
And they do have rigorous travel schedules with what he
does and what she does. She's just started a lifestyle brand,
I believe, so they're constantly traveling apart from one another,
and that absolutely puts a strain on a relationship as well.
And you know, they had to They would have had
to decide had they gotten engaged, where they were going
to live, and that might have been a huge sticking point.
(15:47):
You know, we don't know, and those are major when
you when you have differences of opinion, you obviously have
to compromise if you're going to end up living your
lives together. But on major issues when it come to
where you're living or how you're living, who works, who doesn't,
Who stay at homes with a kid, who doesn't? You know,
(16:07):
I love that I see a lot of young couples
really putting in the time to consider those factors before
they get married. And I applaud that because that's not
something I even really considered or thought about when I
rushed into marriage at twenty three. And so I applaud
anyone who gives extra time and thought to some of
these major things that can absolutely derail a marriage.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
So, you know, I.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
Think, as sad as it is to see a breakup
and two people who we were I think all invested
in and rooting for, I actually applaud. I applaud the
bravery encourage it takes to break up before you get married,
to not do what people expect you to do, to
not walk down the aisle because you think you should
or you said you would. And I can only speak
(16:53):
for myself that I have been in that position before
and made the wrong call. So I applaud someone who
can in it. It does take courage to break up
like this before, especially when you know people are rooting
for you.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
That to that last point you make. I've talked about this.
I think you've I think you've said it's less for
you than it is for me. But that public pressure
sometimes is you've had so many I mean, you've had
other people come along and invest in the decision you're
making because they also say, Okay, TJ, I'm with you.
But if you tell me this is what you want,
(17:30):
I am going to root for it too. I am
gonna support it as well. But now you've got all
those people with you, which feels great when everything's going great.
But then the next thing, Okay, this grouple, I'm going
to disappoint them, I'm going to disappoint my family again.
You think, oh my god, what are they gonna say
about us here or there or you for it to
have to run through your mind for a split second
(17:50):
that your relationship you need to consider a headline that's
going to be written. That is. That's not a way
to be. But it's a reality, and it is. It
feels awful. It does. It feels awful. As difficult as
a relationship can be, we all know they're hard roabes.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
You show me one relationship and there's no way ones
that have made it that it's been an easy road.
It's never easy, and I mean, I think that is
what makes them so special and valuable if you do
find the right person who you're willing to work hard
for and with, because it's rare. I do actually think
(18:30):
it's rare, and you know it's I think anyone who's listening.
You don't have to be a celebrity or someone in
the public eye to know how hard it is to
make these decisions, because in your world, if it's your
pastor if it's your neighbors, if it's your children's school
friends and community, no one wants to admit that they
(18:55):
can't work it out, that they can't figure it out,
that they fell out of love, that they want different things.
Those things all feel embarrassing, humiliating, shameful even sometimes so,
But why do.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
We feel that if everybody's gone through it, everybody listening
is gone through what you're talking about, So why is
it we end up being made to feel like crap
in a public way like this or no, even privately.
Sometimes people look at yes, okay, is if your relationship
is great, is if everything's great over there, and you go,
why is it we look we do that to people,
even if we've gone through it, every single one of us,
(19:30):
but everybody is going to be online and typing something
is saying something negative. Aha, I told you that kind
why do we do that?
Speaker 3 (19:38):
And then there's finger pointing because people always want to
blame one person for being the cause or reason for
a breakup because you know what, it's easier you want
to you want to have an explanation so you can think, Ah,
that's not happening in my marriage or in my relationship,
so I'll be okay. I do think that is what
it all boils down to. But I just I just
want to say that my heart is breaking for both
(20:00):
of them and their families and their friends and everyone
who is rooting for them.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Because it is a loss.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
It's a loss of a dream, it's a loss of
a hope, and somehow we all maybe even personalize it
and think, oh, no, if it could happen to them,
it could happen to me. And I think that is
what goes through a lot of people's minds when they
see a breakup like this, even if it's someone you've
never met, someone you've never known, but someone who you've
looked up to or looked to for comfort or joy,
(20:28):
and maybe even if your relationship isn't going great, seeing
someone else sometimes gives you hope that yours might come around.
So I do think we all end up relating this
sometimes back to ourselves and our own lives, and you
want to have those beacons of hope that relationships can
last through the tough times.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
All right, we'll stay with us here, folks, when we
come back. What in the world is going on in
twenty twenty five we got yet another breakup. We are
here talking about also what we planned to do immediately
for Matt and Rachel. Stay with us. We're back now
(21:15):
reacting to the news that a dear friend, Matt James,
has ended his relationship, or I should say they have
ended their relationship, Matt James and Rachel Kirconnell, who were
stars of the season twenty five of The Bachelor. But
we were talking about this just in recent days, even
(21:36):
recorded an episode about this. I don't think it's out yet,
but before we recorded this one this morning, you said, man,
were that other episode seems irrelevant now because part of
it was about all the celebrity breakups, so many relationships
ending that we were hearing about at the end of
last year at the beginning of this year. I'm going
to forget several but Jessica Alba and Cash Swarren, Jessica Simpson, well, yes,
(21:59):
Jessica Simpson announced her breakup. What were the other was
a Brandon Routh from The Superman Guy. Yes, I'm forgetting it.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
And there was another reality show couple breakup. They were dating,
they were long distance for three years and they broke
up as well. But this is what sometimes experts say
happens at the first of the year. Right, the divorce
is January one. January second supposedly like a major divorce
day in divorce court where people file their paperwork. You know,
(22:29):
I think, look, having gone through this, I know in
my mind I have said to myself or even to
my partner at the time, let's just get through Christmas.
Let's just get through the holidays, and then we'll tell everyone.
Then we'll make the announcement.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
You know what other people say, let's just get through
the high school graduation, let's just get the kid off
to college. I mean, there are all kinds of reasons
to you very exact point, And yes, I've been guilty
of it.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
As well.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
A lot of times you do it for other people,
not even for yourselves. But you're thinking, I don't want to.
I don't want to upset everyone's Christmas.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
I don't want to. I want to give my kids
one last good holiday. You know you do it.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
But so the first of the year obviously a renewal
for so many people. And I say, sadly, we see
breakups being announced, but they've been in the works, probably for.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
A long time.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
That's the truth of the matter. We don't know if
that is specifically relatable or applicable to Matt and Rachel,
but certainly I can just speak from personal experience that
that does make a lot of sense. And I say
sadly because it's not always sad. Sometimes it's long overdue.
Sometimes it's what's needed. You have to have a breakdown
to have a breakthrough, and it's the only way forward
(23:34):
if you're not going to be in a relationship that's
loving and hopeful and joyful and at least you know,
the best thing you can do a lot of times
is to part ways.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
And so I know what you're saying, Yes, that there
are relationships that all of us have had have ended
that we know we're in a better place for it.
It's still in the moment. Sucks and it's hard and
it hurts, and and Rachel are going through and I
to have to. I'm sure some planning went into that statement.
When to put it out, how to draft it. I'm
(24:07):
sure they come to some came to some agreement about
the statement and what it was going to say, and
who was going to put it out. And I think
you said, she has not right. She put something out,
but she didn't know that was months ago. A month.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
The last anything that Rachel has put on social media
as far as I can tell, was Instagram on December fifth,
which was Matt's birthday, and it was a loving, glowing
I read it earlier account of their relationship and her
excitement for what was yet to come. And so we
(24:39):
have not heard from her at all, and maybe we will.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Maybe we won't.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
I can only speak from the experience that I've had,
and they're going to need some time, and.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
They're going to be getting a.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
Lot of calls, a lot of texts, and probably unfortunately
a lot of paparazzi surrounding them once you make an
announcement like this. They obviously had to prepare to probably
lay very low for a while.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
And I hope so, because that's the last thing you
need right now. I just hope he's And I mentioned
what can be done. This is a situation, and I'm
we've talked about it if you listened on the podcast here.
But Matt showed up. He was a guy that showed
up for me when you and I robes first were
(25:26):
going through our hell of having our relationship exposed before
we were ready to let everybody know what was going
on in our personal lives, and it was awful that
it was some really, really dark days, and Matt was
one who showed up for me and wouldn't just let
me ignore his texts. He wouldn't, he wasn't pushy. But
(25:48):
Matt was one who stayed consistent as a friend through that.
And he was absolutely the first friend I saw after
it all went down. They went and met and had
Mexican had margarite, and I can still remember that lunch
and where we sat and how it went. But he
was the first person that I reconnected with and saw
(26:08):
after it all went down. And so he has, as
you know, been a guide and a help and somebody
I leaned on through it all over the past couple
of years and through that, and now we're all bonded
in this odd way of public relationship, public scrutiny, and
(26:30):
we can talk to him, and we've been able to
over the years in a way I think probably nobody
else could understand and talk to him in a way
that we probably don't with anybody else.
Speaker 3 (26:39):
You know what's interesting The first time on a personal
level that I hung out with Matt James, because we
have interviewed him, we had interviewed him multiple times for
his bachelor run on Good Morning America. But I was
actually just thinking the first time I met him on
a personal level was with you, TJ. And it was
(27:01):
one of the very first pictures. He was cropped out.
And I hate to even mention that publication that took
our pictures. Yeah, but I won't.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
I won't mention.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
But he was with us when they made it seem
like we were having some romantic meeting a nearby watering
hole Good Morning America. I actually I forgot you know
what I it was you and Matt were planning to
meet there. It's a little little Irish pub next to
the studios. You and Matt actually had plans to hang out,
(27:32):
and I believe I crashed your party. I was like, hey,
I have some time to kill can I can I
show up too? So I think y'all had some time
by yourselves first, and then I was like.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Hey, it's me.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
And so the three of us had the best time
sitting at that corner, right at the bar there, and
the whole time there had been a photographer there that
we were completely unaware of that was taking our pictures
and failed to mention the fact that it was actually
a date with you and Matt.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
You know what that is.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
So remember that I know exactly what you're talking about now.
But that picture was used against us to show, hey,
look at these two having their little Rondevus and whatnot.
That picture was taken after Matt left five minutes earlier
because he had somewhere to be, and we were about that.
We were there for about two hours yep. An hour
and fifty five of it was with Matt James, and
(28:21):
they only put the pictures up were us leaving, just
the two of us.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
And I forgot about that, and we had a laugh
with Matt about it afterwards when it all came out
when we were able to laugh, which took quite a while.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
It look they cut you out.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
I mentioned you were there the entire time, but they'll
make it look like something else, of course.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
So yeah, but we bonded over all of that.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
You know, being in that sort of that lens of
scrutiny constantly and the truth being completely manipulated, which happened
to us obviously quite often and to anyone who's in
the public eye. But he definitely was a part of
all of that, and we talked about it immensely, and
I just feel for him because we both know, and
(29:07):
he knows, and Rachel knows that the next couple of
days and weeks are probably going to be pretty rough,
not just personally but publicly.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
That you have to consider that is knowing what they're
going through with the breakup, just thinking the other part
that we know they're having to go through is just
it's unfortunate. And Rachel is a I told you that
I've only been around her twice. I think once was
a wild fun night. It was his book release party.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
Left You left, actually a gathering that I was at
to go hang out with them. I remember it very
very long. Yes, I was trying to get you to stay.
You're like, I got a place to be.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
So it was a book launch party, and I mean
so that was I had been covering her and that
story about the bachelor and the breakup and the controversy
for so long that that was the first time. And
she is delightful, She's sweet, she's bubbly, she's sincere. I
found her to be. I owe her at Martini. I've
been telling her I was gonna make her a Vesper
for the long time. He's a Martini girl. But it
(30:06):
was to see them and to see her and to
see them at peace was really really great.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
And look, this.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
Could be the best thing for everybody else. Yeah, they're
great things ahead. Who knows where their lives might end
up down the road. Who knows this the very very
end or just the end for now? We don't know that.
But it's hard in this moment to think that somebody's
better off after a relationship. We both know how that
(30:38):
turns out, and oftentimes, and more often than not, I
would even argue it ends up being for the best.
But when you're sitting in our position, all of our position,
looking at two people who are young, have their lives ahead,
who are in love to think that it is ending,
it's hard to see. Okay, this is probably for the
best right now. It's just sad and it hurts.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
Yeah, I've always taken solace.
Speaker 3 (30:59):
I've had several people say this to me in recent years,
but it did give me some comfort that there's no
there shouldn't be any regrets about any relationship, because relationships
come either for a reason, a season, or a lifetime,
and they're all of value because they all teach us something.
(31:20):
We all learn something from every single relationship we've been in,
whether they were good, bad, or sad, or all of
the above, a mix of all of the above. We
learned something from them and we needed them for whatever
reason at the phase of life we were in. And
so to not think of something as a waste of
time or regret, but instead a period of time where
(31:44):
you needed to learn something and grow from something.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
And perhaps that's what this is.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
It's wild if you were saying, wow, he's just the update,
or you realize he's thirty three, right, so wow, I
didn't realize he was that old because he was twenty
eight when we met. Yeah, right, all of us. He
was a twenty eight year old on The Bachelor. She
was a twenty four.
Speaker 3 (32:04):
Years Yeah, they'rey young, young, young, young young young. Look,
we know we got married at twenty three, but both
of us, you know, and you know your your wide
eyed and your your bride eyed and bushy tailed, and look, Matt,
I never had the opportunity to meet Rachel. It just
she was always in a different every time we all
tried to get together, she was always in another state
(32:24):
or another country. So it was it wasn't for lack
of trying. She's just a very busy girl, shit with
the weddings and.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Her lifestyle brand and just still in Georgia. Yeah she
was the time.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
Yeah, she wasn't here any and Matt was living here
in New York, so it was very easy to hook
up and with him and see him and oh my gosh,
I've run into him on the running path on the
West Side Highway multiple times, multiple times, Like it's so funny.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
You know, it's a it's a big city.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
You could run at any point during the day, and
it just seemed like we kept syncing up with him.
It was it was I love I love those run ins,
and I hope for more. But he is just look
every one has depth and different sides of their personality.
But if I could sum up Matt James, it is
just joy personified. He is such a positive energy and
(33:10):
spirit about him. And I'm sure that people would say
the same about Rachel. But I just I know he's
going to be okay, and I know that he wouldn't
have Neither one of them would have made this decision lightly,
and he certainly wouldn't have gone to Instagram to announce
a breakup if it wasn't something that had been long
(33:30):
considered and thought out. I mean, they both know this
isn't something that they could just like, oh we're on,
we're off, or on or off. That's not I don't
believe that's who they are or who he is necessarily.
But I hope that this is a beginning. I mean,
I guess you have to have an end to have
a beginning, and I hope this soon becomes a beginning
(33:52):
a new beginning for them.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
But folks, if you if you do have the urge
to speak, to say something, to type something on social
media today about Matt and Rachel, about anybody you know,
take a chance to maybe give them a virtual hug
if you can that will peel. Be plenty of people
out there already talking about I knew anyway, I told
(34:15):
you so it wasn't real, and then want to bring
up the controversy in a negative way and take some
type of shot. Just resist the urge to do so. Today,
some folks who are very near and dear to us
and we consider very very good people that are worth
rooting for, are hurting right now, and we will check
(34:35):
on them. But if you're able to in your own way,
support them, support somebody today instead of tearing them down
when they're having a bad moment, take an opportunity to
do so.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
I love that. What's the first thing we're going to do?
You tease that before we went into the break.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
Well done it already picking up the phone today And
it's what he did and so many other people did
for me, which is just checking on you. We're here.
Don't expect a response back, don't need a response back.
Just need you to know that we are thinking about
you and we are here. And sometimes that's all it takes.
(35:17):
Because I can test that that message coming my way
from several people when we were going through a bit
of our hell was valuable. So that's the extent of
it today. And I don't need to harass or chase
them down or anything else, but just he needs to
know that we're here, and I hope a lot of
(35:39):
you out there that's all sometimes somebody needs. So we
appreciate you taking some time and listening and engaging with
us on a relationship that has been in the headline
for a long long time. And it's going to be
a lot of headlines out there in the coming days
as well. So my love, Amy Roboc, let me declare
here publicly that I love you and we are still
(36:03):
going strong, and I still want to marry you. And
so the headlines next week about us will come to
the shop to people.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
No no, no, no no.
Speaker 3 (36:12):
I love you too, and I want to marry you,
and I love what you just said. I think that
we can take these moments and we can be sad,
but we can also have that serve as a reminder
to be kind, because, as you always say, Tej, everybody
is going through something. We're just more aware of it
(36:33):
about others sometimes because of the public nature of this world.
But just keep that in mind as you go about
your day to day. I love that, and this is
said in a special moment, to remember that
Hey, there are folks in this episode when heartbreak makes headlines,
Matt and Rachel have decided to end their relationship. And
with that, folks, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ. Yes,
Matt James and Rachel Kirconnell, the controversial but couple at
the center of season twenty five of The Bachelor, have
(00:23):
after four years now ropes decided to call it quits.
And we got this word just a short time ago
from Matt himself in an Instagram post announcing it. Can
I ask you first? You pointed it out to me
because you follow and you keep up with stuff on Instagram.
What was your reaction when you saw it? Oh?
Speaker 2 (00:42):
I was heartbroken.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
You know, it's something that so many people have followed
over the past four years. But we know Matt intimately
and well, and he has been a huge source of
support for us individually and as a couple ever since
we went through through our situation a few years ago,
and so he is considered a close friend of ours
(01:08):
and we're always rooting for him, and if that means
him going his separate ways, then obviously we support that.
But it's still sad to see a couple that we
were rooting for, and that I think America was rooting for.
So I've felt sad and his post definitely shows that
(01:31):
he's sad too. He's hurting too. Breakups are hard, tough decisions.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Yeah, this is one. If you hell again, this is
a significant period of time that this relationship has been together.
This is not a This wasn't a new something that
was blossoming again four plus years that season was my goodness,
twenty twenty one is when it aired. But plenty of
headlines if folks been following them, they seemed great, seemed happy,
(01:58):
at least if you were following them in news, head
and social media. But his social media posts, we will
let you know how we all found out the news
that Matt and Rachel we're ending that relationship. It was
from a post early this morning.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Yes, on Instagram, and it shows a picture actually of
the two of them meeting for the first time on
The Bachelor. So this was from twenty twenty and it's
a joyful that first moment when you meet the person
who you think, at one point you may spend the
rest of your life with. And that certainly is the
look these two are giving each other in this picture.
He chose, and his caption reads this, Father, God, give
(02:34):
Rachel and I strength to mend our broken hearts. Give
us a piece about this decision to end our relationship
that transcends worldly understanding. Shower our friends and family with
kindness and love to comfort us and remind us that
our joy comes from you, Lord. And then he has
a broken heart emoji after that, and he turned the
(02:54):
comments off.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Yeah, and that's done by a guy who's been through it,
who's been through a lot publicly. Look, these are human beings.
We don't folks we see on TV and a public eye.
This is someone Think about any breakup you had in
your life and how much that hurt, even if you
(03:17):
were the one who initiated the breakup. Breakups are still difficult,
and certainly if you have this many years put into it,
But then to have to go through the relationship they
had in a public manner is certainly something we can
attest to is difficult. But then what they went through
initially on the show with the controversy, these two have
been through some fire together and publicly, and I think
(03:39):
that is why, in a lot of ways, I think
this will come as a shock. It'll come as a
shock to a lot of people. If you've been following
on social media, these two are everywhere together, playing, having fun, eating, traveling,
and so this that might be the reason that comes
to the shock to people.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
Babe the post and look, I know, we know that
what you put out on social media is the best
version of yourself most of the time, the best of times.
You aren't normally posting about or talking about the fight
you just had or the deep seated problem you're trying
to work through. So we get that all relationships have
those different layers that you aren't necessarily showing.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
But I think for me, the announcement.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
I was expecting from Matt was an engagement and there's
a reason for us to have felt that way. I mean, look,
the post he put up ten hours actually twelve hours
before the announcement that they broke up, was a picture
of the two of them eating pizza in London together,
And all of the posts before that, which were almost daily,
(04:43):
were the two of them together, laughing, talking, smiling, eating,
enjoying each other, having pet names for one another. So
it is a little jarring given that the last post
was one of love and joy or seeming and maybe
that still existed. Maybe they've realized they're better friends than lovers.
I mean, there were so many things that could go
(05:04):
into it, but it is definitely shocking, especially when you
look at Rachel's last post. It was Matt's birthday, which
was recent December fifth. It was just a little over
a month ago. And if you don't mind, I'm going
to read her caption from I guess what would be
five weeks ago, six weeks ago, happiest of birthdays to
my best friend, my teammate, my souex chef, the man
(05:26):
that has my whole heart you feel it and my
tummy with so much love and laughter, and I'm so
thankful I get to dance through this life with you.
Thank you for never ending love and support and smooches
and snuggles to many more adventures. Happy birthday, my pumpkin.
And he teased and wrote a caption saying I'm your pumpkin,
(05:46):
and then he called her chicken, so they were using petne.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
This is just a few weeks ago, so yes, so.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Look, will you never and ever ever know what's going
on behind the scenes? And look, I can tell you
they weren't just putting on public click we could confirm
that for one hundred percent sure, but not only could
you speculate and hope and wonder that the next announcement
was going to be one about an engagement. He flat
(06:14):
out as they say these things they I mean, he
was on the show earlier on on our podcast, and
he's not shy about saying, yes, marriage is next, and
marriage is what we're thinking. We're talking about this, and
that the planning was being done for a future together.
Things happened behind the scenes, and it doesn't mean it
has to be nasty. It doesn't mean something had to
(06:35):
somebody had to have done something wrong. Sometimes you just
come to this realization and it could have happened late
or very recently. I mean, so yes, those posts could
have been one hundred percent accurate for what they were
feeling and experiencing at the time and something changed or
conversation became different. So we're not going to speculate on
the reasons.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
No, No, And we know Matt well enough to say
this with confidence. He is an authentic dude. He is
not putting on a show for Instagram followers or to
make things seem better than they are. And so I
believe that if six weeks ago, they were both speaking
as if they were looking forward to the future, excited
(07:14):
about their lives together. Then that was the case six
weeks ago. I mean in October they were on a
podcast as you I think you kind of referenced there
that they are talking. They were talking publicly and candidly
about getting engaged, because if you follow them on Instagram,
you know that they've been through They're in that time
or that phase in their life where everyone's getting married.
(07:36):
So they were constantly going to a lot of Rachel's friends' weddings,
and Matt even joked about it. I think he couldn't
come to one of our events or something we had
invited him too, because he was going to get another
wedding with Rachel.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
But I think another time he skipped the wedding so
we could do something with him.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
I think he did a podcast with us and he
skipped the wedding. But there was you know, you go
through your late twenties, early thirties, everyone's getting engaged, everyone's
getting married. So he was even speaking two months ago
about having had so many Rachel's friends going through engagements.
He said, I wouldn't dare go look at a ring
without consulting Rachel first. But he's clearly said when they
asked about him getting married or them getting married, he said,
(08:13):
I think that's the next step. Again, this is two
months ago, and so then Rachel even went on to say,
I have the finger ready. I feel that's definitely something
we want, but I'm on his time. And so I
think she made it very clear that she was ready, ready, ready.
She said, my problem is I definitely need to go
find a ring I like and everything, but that's on
(08:34):
him at this point. So you know, she was saying, hey,
I'm ready, and he indicated that he was too, or
he was getting ready.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Look, and we talk about this stuff publicly, and this
is look walking a fine line here because there's obviously
some stuff that we are privy to behind the scenes
and from a personal standpoint with Matt over the years
now oh dang god, it's been four or five years
now with Matt. But so I do want to make
sure we're respectful of that relationship. But I can say
(09:05):
that stuff he's putting out publicly is also what he
was saying privately. Yes, it's been talking plenty with him
about marriage and future and Rachel and where they were
going what they were going to be plenty So it
was in line publicly and privately with the things you
were saying. It sucks any breakup you're always rooting for. Well,
I am at least right, I'm still rooting for Jalo
(09:27):
and Ben. We've seen a number of celebrity or high
profile breakups here lately. But the way this one came
together because we first started interviewing this cat in twenty
twenty or twenty twenty one. So Season twenty five with
the Bachelor launched in January of twenty twenty one.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
Yeah, it was filming in twenty twenty during the pandemic
and all of that, but everybody was kind of glued
to their TVs in a way maybe they weren't before
because of the pandemic.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Okay, so you throw in the pandemic, and you throw
in the fact he's the first black Bachelor. This was huge,
Like this was an event. His season was wild, everybody
paying attention, and he is as charming and intelligentic and
ready for that show. He was a perfect bachelor to
be honest.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
With you, you really he really was and is Yeah, oh.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
In his background, just everything about this dude. You just love.
And then, of course came the controversy in the season
because pictures came out about one of his finalists, Rachel
Kreconnell Antebellum party while she was in college in the South.
Those pictures came out, she was accused of being a
racist and participating in this thing. That controversy hit. The
(10:38):
problem there is Robes. The show taped so early, so
the shape show was done taping, he had already picked somebody.
Just the public didn't.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Know he had already picked her. He had already picked Rachel.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
That's the problem. We didn't know that. So then these
pictures come out while she was just a finalist, and
I think a lot of people behind the show freaked out,
Oh shit, everybody hates this girl and she's the one
(11:13):
that he ended it so to some degree, and I
think that's where Chris Harrison came in and he started
to kind of defend her a little bit. Is that
a fair way?
Speaker 3 (11:23):
Well, I think the I think the point because he
knew the outcome right, and he was fully invested in
the show in multiple ways, not just being the host,
but being a part of this franchise for two decades,
So he was trying to amend I believe the pr
that was blowing up in defense of the show, probably
first and foremost, and also of Matt and Rachel, because
(11:46):
he knew them and liked them, and so he thought
he was doing a solid for them.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
But it came out terribly wrong. It came out up.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
It ended up ending his career on the show. And
the other Rachel Yes, Yes Lindsay.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Rachel Lindsay, he did an interview with her on her
entertainment show and came off as if he's defending racist Behaviorrent.
He got into a little back and forth with Rachel Lindsay,
and that moment probably hurt Rachel Kirconnell and Matt James'
relationship even more because it blew up the controversy into
an even bigger one to a great degree. So they
(12:26):
ended up. Matt and they broke up for a little while. Yeah,
and I applauded them for getting back together, but it
was all you were saying here. It was such a
strain on their relationship that controversy that it ended them
the first time around.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
And they've talked about that.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
That that that public pressure of what people thought about
them about her absolutely influenced that, and then he even
talked about in that same interview a few months ago
in October on that podcast, about pressure, and.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
He said, we're doing great.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
I feel like when you feel pressure, it's when you
don't want to do something. So he said he never
felt pressure to get engaged because it's something he's always
wanted to do and it's something that we're gonna do
at some point. He said, that's why we're together, that's
what we're working toward. I'm excited about our future. But
he talked about that very same pressure as being part
of the reason why they broke up the first time.
But because they'd been through it, because they got through it,
(13:20):
because they worked through it, they felt more solid than
ever continuing their relationship.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
I was and you know what, that gave me confidence
as well. I did not think they would actually get
back through that first breakup. Oh yeah, I was like, Okay,
I get it. I actually get it, and I got
why as a black man, he would have a difficult
time maybe trying to reconcile what his girlfriend had done,
trying to explain it to his family or his friends,
(13:46):
and trying to say no, she's okay, you trust me,
and again at that point, they didn't know each other
that well, right, I have a history with you that
no matter what you do today, I have a foundation
of who you are. I don't think they knew each
other well enough at that time.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
And I think anytime you meet somebody, We've watched enough
reality TV to know that there are always those questions
among the contestants as.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
To who is there for the right reasons, who.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Is there to get a larger following on social media,
who was there to become an influencer, And so you
can see where that could have played into.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
All of it as well.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Where you're not who you think you are, You're not
who you say you are because I don't know you.
But they Yeah, four years together is no small thing
in the public eye after all of that to get through.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
I mean, I think people know this, We know it
really well. But that was a lot of strain on
that relationship from responsibilities from I mean personal and public responsibilities,
from living situation. They're in several different places and bouncing
around states, so coordinating all that can be difficult as well,
but they always always, in my opinion, even behind the scenes,
(14:54):
every relationship has an issue of sulf. Of course, no
nobody is perfect, but I held out hope you put
money on it, I would have bet for an engagement
was going to be the next thing we heard versus
a breakup.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
A one hundred percent my way, and that's absolutely what
I would have thought as well, hearing how he speaks
of her and spoke of her, And you know, you
make the point we've talked about this.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
They were kind.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
Of in a long distance relationship because they never I
don't believe from our understanding, they never actually lived in
the same.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Town full time.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
That's tough.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
And they do have rigorous travel schedules with what he
does and what she does. She's just started a lifestyle brand,
I believe, so they're constantly traveling apart from one another,
and that absolutely puts a strain on a relationship as well.
And you know, they had to They would have had
to decide had they gotten engaged, where they were going
to live, and that might have been a huge sticking point.
(15:47):
You know, we don't know, and those are major when
you when you have differences of opinion, you obviously have
to compromise if you're going to end up living your
lives together. But on major issues when it come to
where you're living or how you're living, who works, who doesn't,
Who stay at homes with a kid, who doesn't? You know,
(16:07):
I love that I see a lot of young couples
really putting in the time to consider those factors before
they get married. And I applaud that because that's not
something I even really considered or thought about when I
rushed into marriage at twenty three. And so I applaud
anyone who gives extra time and thought to some of
these major things that can absolutely derail a marriage.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
So, you know, I.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
Think, as sad as it is to see a breakup
and two people who we were I think all invested
in and rooting for, I actually applaud. I applaud the
bravery encourage it takes to break up before you get married,
to not do what people expect you to do, to
not walk down the aisle because you think you should
or you said you would. And I can only speak
(16:53):
for myself that I have been in that position before
and made the wrong call. So I applaud someone who
can in it. It does take courage to break up
like this before, especially when you know people are rooting
for you.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
That to that last point you make. I've talked about this.
I think you've I think you've said it's less for
you than it is for me. But that public pressure
sometimes is you've had so many I mean, you've had
other people come along and invest in the decision you're
making because they also say, Okay, TJ, I'm with you.
But if you tell me this is what you want,
(17:30):
I am going to root for it too. I am
gonna support it as well. But now you've got all
those people with you, which feels great when everything's going great.
But then the next thing, Okay, this grouple, I'm going
to disappoint them, I'm going to disappoint my family again.
You think, oh my god, what are they gonna say
about us here or there or you for it to
have to run through your mind for a split second
(17:50):
that your relationship you need to consider a headline that's
going to be written. That is. That's not a way
to be. But it's a reality, and it is. It
feels awful. It does. It feels awful. As difficult as
a relationship can be, we all know they're hard roabes.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
You show me one relationship and there's no way ones
that have made it that it's been an easy road.
It's never easy, and I mean, I think that is
what makes them so special and valuable if you do
find the right person who you're willing to work hard
for and with, because it's rare. I do actually think
(18:30):
it's rare, and you know it's I think anyone who's listening.
You don't have to be a celebrity or someone in
the public eye to know how hard it is to
make these decisions, because in your world, if it's your
pastor if it's your neighbors, if it's your children's school
friends and community, no one wants to admit that they
(18:55):
can't work it out, that they can't figure it out,
that they fell out of love, that they want different things.
Those things all feel embarrassing, humiliating, shameful even sometimes so,
But why do.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
We feel that if everybody's gone through it, everybody listening
is gone through what you're talking about, So why is
it we end up being made to feel like crap
in a public way like this or no, even privately.
Sometimes people look at yes, okay, is if your relationship
is great, is if everything's great over there, and you go,
why is it we look we do that to people,
even if we've gone through it, every single one of us,
(19:30):
but everybody is going to be online and typing something
is saying something negative. Aha, I told you that kind
why do we do that?
Speaker 3 (19:38):
And then there's finger pointing because people always want to
blame one person for being the cause or reason for
a breakup because you know what, it's easier you want
to you want to have an explanation so you can think, Ah,
that's not happening in my marriage or in my relationship,
so I'll be okay. I do think that is what
it all boils down to. But I just I just
want to say that my heart is breaking for both
(20:00):
of them and their families and their friends and everyone
who is rooting for them.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Because it is a loss.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
It's a loss of a dream, it's a loss of
a hope, and somehow we all maybe even personalize it
and think, oh, no, if it could happen to them,
it could happen to me. And I think that is
what goes through a lot of people's minds when they
see a breakup like this, even if it's someone you've
never met, someone you've never known, but someone who you've
looked up to or looked to for comfort or joy,
(20:28):
and maybe even if your relationship isn't going great, seeing
someone else sometimes gives you hope that yours might come around.
So I do think we all end up relating this
sometimes back to ourselves and our own lives, and you
want to have those beacons of hope that relationships can
last through the tough times.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
All right, we'll stay with us here, folks, when we
come back. What in the world is going on in
twenty twenty five we got yet another breakup. We are
here talking about also what we planned to do immediately
for Matt and Rachel. Stay with us. We're back now
(21:15):
reacting to the news that a dear friend, Matt James,
has ended his relationship, or I should say they have
ended their relationship, Matt James and Rachel Kirconnell, who were
stars of the season twenty five of The Bachelor. But
we were talking about this just in recent days, even
(21:36):
recorded an episode about this. I don't think it's out yet,
but before we recorded this one this morning, you said, man,
were that other episode seems irrelevant now because part of
it was about all the celebrity breakups, so many relationships
ending that we were hearing about at the end of
last year at the beginning of this year. I'm going
to forget several but Jessica Alba and Cash Swarren, Jessica Simpson, well, yes,
(21:59):
Jessica Simpson announced her breakup. What were the other was
a Brandon Routh from The Superman Guy. Yes, I'm forgetting it.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
And there was another reality show couple breakup. They were dating,
they were long distance for three years and they broke
up as well. But this is what sometimes experts say
happens at the first of the year. Right, the divorce
is January one. January second supposedly like a major divorce
day in divorce court where people file their paperwork. You know,
(22:29):
I think, look, having gone through this, I know in
my mind I have said to myself or even to
my partner at the time, let's just get through Christmas.
Let's just get through the holidays, and then we'll tell everyone.
Then we'll make the announcement.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
You know what other people say, let's just get through
the high school graduation, let's just get the kid off
to college. I mean, there are all kinds of reasons
to you very exact point, And yes, I've been guilty
of it.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
As well.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
A lot of times you do it for other people,
not even for yourselves. But you're thinking, I don't want to.
I don't want to upset everyone's Christmas.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
I don't want to. I want to give my kids
one last good holiday. You know you do it.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
But so the first of the year obviously a renewal
for so many people. And I say, sadly, we see
breakups being announced, but they've been in the works, probably for.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
A long time.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
That's the truth of the matter. We don't know if
that is specifically relatable or applicable to Matt and Rachel,
but certainly I can just speak from personal experience that
that does make a lot of sense. And I say
sadly because it's not always sad. Sometimes it's long overdue.
Sometimes it's what's needed. You have to have a breakdown
to have a breakthrough, and it's the only way forward
(23:34):
if you're not going to be in a relationship that's
loving and hopeful and joyful and at least you know,
the best thing you can do a lot of times
is to part ways.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
And so I know what you're saying, Yes, that there
are relationships that all of us have had have ended
that we know we're in a better place for it.
It's still in the moment. Sucks and it's hard and
it hurts, and and Rachel are going through and I
to have to. I'm sure some planning went into that statement.
When to put it out, how to draft it. I'm
(24:07):
sure they come to some came to some agreement about
the statement and what it was going to say, and
who was going to put it out. And I think
you said, she has not right. She put something out,
but she didn't know that was months ago. A month.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
The last anything that Rachel has put on social media
as far as I can tell, was Instagram on December fifth,
which was Matt's birthday, and it was a loving, glowing
I read it earlier account of their relationship and her
excitement for what was yet to come. And so we
(24:39):
have not heard from her at all, and maybe we will.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Maybe we won't.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
I can only speak from the experience that I've had,
and they're going to need some time, and.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
They're going to be getting a.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
Lot of calls, a lot of texts, and probably unfortunately
a lot of paparazzi surrounding them once you make an
announcement like this. They obviously had to prepare to probably
lay very low for a while.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
And I hope so, because that's the last thing you
need right now. I just hope he's And I mentioned
what can be done. This is a situation, and I'm
we've talked about it if you listened on the podcast here.
But Matt showed up. He was a guy that showed
up for me when you and I robes first were
(25:26):
going through our hell of having our relationship exposed before
we were ready to let everybody know what was going
on in our personal lives, and it was awful that
it was some really, really dark days, and Matt was
one who showed up for me and wouldn't just let
me ignore his texts. He wouldn't, he wasn't pushy. But
(25:48):
Matt was one who stayed consistent as a friend through that.
And he was absolutely the first friend I saw after
it all went down. They went and met and had
Mexican had margarite, and I can still remember that lunch
and where we sat and how it went. But he
was the first person that I reconnected with and saw
(26:08):
after it all went down. And so he has, as
you know, been a guide and a help and somebody
I leaned on through it all over the past couple
of years and through that, and now we're all bonded
in this odd way of public relationship, public scrutiny, and
(26:30):
we can talk to him, and we've been able to
over the years in a way I think probably nobody
else could understand and talk to him in a way
that we probably don't with anybody else.
Speaker 3 (26:39):
You know what's interesting The first time on a personal
level that I hung out with Matt James, because we
have interviewed him, we had interviewed him multiple times for
his bachelor run on Good Morning America. But I was
actually just thinking the first time I met him on
a personal level was with you, TJ. And it was
(27:01):
one of the very first pictures. He was cropped out.
And I hate to even mention that publication that took
our pictures. Yeah, but I won't.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
I won't mention.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
But he was with us when they made it seem
like we were having some romantic meeting a nearby watering
hole Good Morning America. I actually I forgot you know
what I it was you and Matt were planning to
meet there. It's a little little Irish pub next to
the studios. You and Matt actually had plans to hang out,
(27:32):
and I believe I crashed your party. I was like, hey,
I have some time to kill can I can I
show up too? So I think y'all had some time
by yourselves first, and then I was like.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Hey, it's me.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
And so the three of us had the best time
sitting at that corner, right at the bar there, and
the whole time there had been a photographer there that
we were completely unaware of that was taking our pictures
and failed to mention the fact that it was actually
a date with you and Matt.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
You know what that is.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
So remember that I know exactly what you're talking about now.
But that picture was used against us to show, hey,
look at these two having their little Rondevus and whatnot.
That picture was taken after Matt left five minutes earlier
because he had somewhere to be, and we were about that.
We were there for about two hours yep. An hour
and fifty five of it was with Matt James, and
(28:21):
they only put the pictures up were us leaving, just
the two of us.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
And I forgot about that, and we had a laugh
with Matt about it afterwards when it all came out
when we were able to laugh, which took quite a while.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
It look they cut you out.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
I mentioned you were there the entire time, but they'll
make it look like something else, of course.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
So yeah, but we bonded over all of that.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
You know, being in that sort of that lens of
scrutiny constantly and the truth being completely manipulated, which happened
to us obviously quite often and to anyone who's in
the public eye. But he definitely was a part of
all of that, and we talked about it immensely, and
I just feel for him because we both know, and
(29:07):
he knows, and Rachel knows that the next couple of
days and weeks are probably going to be pretty rough,
not just personally but publicly.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
That you have to consider that is knowing what they're
going through with the breakup, just thinking the other part
that we know they're having to go through is just
it's unfortunate. And Rachel is a I told you that
I've only been around her twice. I think once was
a wild fun night. It was his book release party.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
Left You left, actually a gathering that I was at
to go hang out with them. I remember it very
very long. Yes, I was trying to get you to stay.
You're like, I got a place to be.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
So it was a book launch party, and I mean
so that was I had been covering her and that
story about the bachelor and the breakup and the controversy
for so long that that was the first time. And
she is delightful, She's sweet, she's bubbly, she's sincere. I
found her to be. I owe her at Martini. I've
been telling her I was gonna make her a Vesper
for the long time. He's a Martini girl. But it
(30:06):
was to see them and to see her and to
see them at peace was really really great.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
And look, this.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
Could be the best thing for everybody else. Yeah, they're
great things ahead. Who knows where their lives might end
up down the road. Who knows this the very very
end or just the end for now? We don't know that.
But it's hard in this moment to think that somebody's
better off after a relationship. We both know how that
(30:38):
turns out, and oftentimes, and more often than not, I
would even argue it ends up being for the best.
But when you're sitting in our position, all of our position,
looking at two people who are young, have their lives ahead,
who are in love to think that it is ending,
it's hard to see. Okay, this is probably for the
best right now. It's just sad and it hurts.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
Yeah, I've always taken solace.
Speaker 3 (30:59):
I've had several people say this to me in recent years,
but it did give me some comfort that there's no
there shouldn't be any regrets about any relationship, because relationships
come either for a reason, a season, or a lifetime,
and they're all of value because they all teach us something.
(31:20):
We all learn something from every single relationship we've been in,
whether they were good, bad, or sad, or all of
the above, a mix of all of the above. We
learned something from them and we needed them for whatever
reason at the phase of life we were in. And
so to not think of something as a waste of
time or regret, but instead a period of time where
(31:44):
you needed to learn something and grow from something.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
And perhaps that's what this is.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
It's wild if you were saying, wow, he's just the update,
or you realize he's thirty three, right, so wow, I
didn't realize he was that old because he was twenty
eight when we met. Yeah, right, all of us. He
was a twenty eight year old on The Bachelor. She
was a twenty four.
Speaker 3 (32:04):
Years Yeah, they'rey young, young, young, young young young. Look,
we know we got married at twenty three, but both
of us, you know, and you know your your wide
eyed and your your bride eyed and bushy tailed, and look, Matt,
I never had the opportunity to meet Rachel. It just
she was always in a different every time we all
tried to get together, she was always in another state
(32:24):
or another country. So it was it wasn't for lack
of trying. She's just a very busy girl, shit with
the weddings and.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Her lifestyle brand and just still in Georgia. Yeah she
was the time.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
Yeah, she wasn't here any and Matt was living here
in New York, so it was very easy to hook
up and with him and see him and oh my gosh,
I've run into him on the running path on the
West Side Highway multiple times, multiple times, Like it's so funny.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
You know, it's a it's a big city.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
You could run at any point during the day, and
it just seemed like we kept syncing up with him.
It was it was I love I love those run ins,
and I hope for more. But he is just look
every one has depth and different sides of their personality.
But if I could sum up Matt James, it is
just joy personified. He is such a positive energy and
(33:10):
spirit about him. And I'm sure that people would say
the same about Rachel. But I just I know he's
going to be okay, and I know that he wouldn't
have Neither one of them would have made this decision lightly,
and he certainly wouldn't have gone to Instagram to announce
a breakup if it wasn't something that had been long
(33:30):
considered and thought out. I mean, they both know this
isn't something that they could just like, oh we're on,
we're off, or on or off. That's not I don't
believe that's who they are or who he is necessarily.
But I hope that this is a beginning. I mean,
I guess you have to have an end to have
a beginning, and I hope this soon becomes a beginning
(33:52):
a new beginning for them.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
But folks, if you if you do have the urge
to speak, to say something, to type something on social
media today about Matt and Rachel, about anybody you know,
take a chance to maybe give them a virtual hug
if you can that will peel. Be plenty of people
out there already talking about I knew anyway, I told
(34:15):
you so it wasn't real, and then want to bring
up the controversy in a negative way and take some
type of shot. Just resist the urge to do so. Today,
some folks who are very near and dear to us
and we consider very very good people that are worth
rooting for, are hurting right now, and we will check
(34:35):
on them. But if you're able to in your own way,
support them, support somebody today instead of tearing them down
when they're having a bad moment, take an opportunity to
do so.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
I love that. What's the first thing we're going to do?
You tease that before we went into the break.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
Well done it already picking up the phone today And
it's what he did and so many other people did
for me, which is just checking on you. We're here.
Don't expect a response back, don't need a response back.
Just need you to know that we are thinking about
you and we are here. And sometimes that's all it takes.
(35:17):
Because I can test that that message coming my way
from several people when we were going through a bit
of our hell was valuable. So that's the extent of
it today. And I don't need to harass or chase
them down or anything else, but just he needs to
know that we're here, and I hope a lot of
(35:39):
you out there that's all sometimes somebody needs. So we
appreciate you taking some time and listening and engaging with
us on a relationship that has been in the headline
for a long long time. And it's going to be
a lot of headlines out there in the coming days
as well. So my love, Amy Roboc, let me declare
here publicly that I love you and we are still
(36:03):
going strong, and I still want to marry you. And
so the headlines next week about us will come to
the shop to people.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
No no, no, no no.
Speaker 3 (36:12):
I love you too, and I want to marry you,
and I love what you just said. I think that
we can take these moments and we can be sad,
but we can also have that serve as a reminder
to be kind, because, as you always say, Tej, everybody
is going through something. We're just more aware of it
(36:33):
about others sometimes because of the public nature of this world.
But just keep that in mind as you go about
your day to day. I love that, and this is
said in a special moment, to remember that
Hosts And Creators
Amy Robach
T.J. Holmes
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