March 10, 2025 • 48 mins
Amy & T.J. react to news of the firings of 200 ABC News employees, mostly from their former show, GMA3. It’s been an emotional couple of days as the two discuss what’s happened to a show they will always root for and hold dear to their hearts.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey, the folks in this episode, did you see about
the latest newest thefty but for us heartbreaking round of
layoffs making headlines last weekend? With that, Welcome to this
episode of Amy and TJ Robes. We've been reporting a
lot about layoffs all over the all over the country.
It seems to pass several weeks having to do with
(00:23):
the federal government. I guess a lot of that, but
this round of layoffs hit very close to home, was
very personal. Were talking about our former network.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
I actually got a call from you. I was out
at a lunch and missed the headline that basically most
of our staff that we worked with daily, that we loved,
that we were rooting for from Afar was laid off.
Two hundred employees fired from ABC News, and a large
(00:52):
majority of them came from our former show GMA three.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Yeah, so we're talking to and again, I guess in media,
if you work in it long enough, these things just happen.
They these are I mean, these all the times that
it's happened, it always seems like, oh, this is the
one that the media industry is a really changing, This
is the course correction, and maybe this one will be
because things are going to streaming in digital. But this one,
when you hear a network like ABC News is laying
(01:17):
off two hundred people, which was the initial headline, that's
a big deal. And I guess we shouldn't necessarily be
surprised about where the industry is going.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
We're not surprised about where the industry is going.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
We're seeing it everywhere and the ratings are dropping. It's
not how much you gained year to year, but trying
to stop the bleeding. So the better off you are
is the fewer viewers you lost, but that it's a
game that is not winning, it's losing, and everyone kind
of knows this. There has to be some major restructuring
and reevaluating and honestly, how you're going to get younger folks,
(01:51):
younger people to watch television when that really has become
something that kids aren't doing. It isn't a habit of theirs.
They're on their phones, they're their tablets, so they're not
watching network news. So yes, perhaps this is inevitable. But
when you see two hundred ABC News employees being fired,
I think that amounts to about six percent of ABC
News's work staff. When it's concentrated on one show that
(02:15):
is even more specific and more detrimental to the folks
who were working on that show, and it was Yes,
it was our show.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
So let's if you're not familiar the headlines. I guess
Wall Street General was among the first to report there's
two hundred employees at ABC News is going to be
let go Nightline in twenty twenty. Those are long standing
staples of that network. They are now being merged into
one unit. Obviously robes anytimes there's two staffs merged into one,
(02:45):
people going to lose jobs. Then the five thirty eight website,
A lot of people might not realize or remember five
thirty eight started by Nate Silver, which did all the
great presidential predictions back around President Barack Obama during his elections.
ABC bought five point thirty eight. Well, now it's letting
it go. It's being shuttered, so fifteen employees are out
(03:05):
of a job. So the most jarring I guess changes
and headlines have to do with Yes, Good Morning America,
the flagship show where there was GMA and GMA three,
so three hours of Good Morning America. But folks didn't
realize that these two operated very separately.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
And that was, to be fully honest, That was always
a frustrating thing for us because we were juggling between
being correspondence and filling anchors for the flagship show Good
Morning America, and then at the same time being co
anchors for GMA three. And sometimes you would think that
would all be harmonious and would all make sense that
(03:42):
the two would go hand in hand, but oftentimes they
pushed against each other and it ended up feeling like
we were in a tug of war between GMA and
GMA three, and there.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
We were called in the middle of that. It feel
like it was.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
We absolutely were caught between the two so being assigned
two different things, or GMA wants you to go somewhere,
but GMA three wants you back anchoring the show, and
it was a battle sometimes daily, but certainly weekly.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
It felt like, so this is and this is now
why we are where we are. They have corrected that
error now if you will, but they say they've done
it for financial reasons. So yes, GMA and GMA three
are literally done in the same building in Times Square
on different floors. GMA uses the GMA three studio plenty,
but essentially there's just literally one floor up from each other,
(04:29):
but we all share the same building, all of our
dressing rooms running next to all.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
It was a shared space, and even the floor directors
and all the folks who were commanding the cameras and
all of those folks all were the same. So it
was basically the behind the scenes staff for Good Morning
America just went upstairs. We did a lot of times
in the eight o'clock hour anyway for GMA, and we
just kind of shifted anchors.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
So the difference, though, being is that GMA is crazy.
We this drove us crazy. We're going to get into that.
But GMA and GMA three have two totally different production
team as far as the producers go in the executive
producer are two totally separate units. So there's not a
synergy that you would think that these two shows have.
(05:15):
They're completely produced separately from each other. We didn't even
the producing teams don't necessarily even talk to each other
and coordinate. They're two separate, totally separate shore.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
Sometimes we were doing the coordinating, going back and forth
between the executive producers, trying to figure out where we
were supposed to be, like physically.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
On a story or on an assignment.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
So that was always a little confusing because GMA three
was under the umbrella of ABC News Live, the digital
online version of ABC News, so it truly was a
completely different status.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
And we're gonna explain that to in a second. It
took us the longest to figure out why exactly that
was done. But what we're saying here and what we're
setting up was we're explaining why the GMA three staff
is now gone because it was a separate staff. So
what they've now done is taken GMA three and put
it completely under the control of GMA and GMA's executive
producer Simone Swink, so now it's all one unit. And
(06:09):
to do that, you had to get rid of the
entire staff of GMA three. That entire staff are folks,
robes who were with you from the very beginning, with me,
from the very beginning when we started of that show,
and they're all gone now, and we both got that
news last week. And I will ask you now, you
(06:32):
know before I ask you that this is important to
say because people will understand your reaction to it, but
you have to to fully understand. You have to understand
how the show started. Now this hour on the network
is around one o'clock GMA three. What was it called
it first GMI Demic before when stray and uh oh.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
It was it was straight Hand, Sarah and Kekeyankey. First
it was straight Hand and Sarah. Then it became straighthand
Sarah and kekeyp And then when the pandemicemic hit, it
was very obvious pretty quickly that that show was not
going to be able to continue in the situation this
world was in. And it truly was an opportunity to
create a show that served the public with the information
(07:13):
that we so desperately needed because things were constantly changing
and evolving. We were scared for our lives, and I
felt like, honestly, for the first time in my journalistic career,
I was doing something worthy of public attention and public safety,
and it was I felt so fulfilled starting that show,
just knowing that we were actually giving people potentially life
(07:35):
saving information. So that's what the show became, or at
least initially began, as it grew from a real organic need.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
But the show was necessary without Now what was the
name it was a pandemic year, No, it was just
called pandemic. What you need to know? Yes, right. That
started in March, right of twenty twenty or is it April.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
It was March of twenty twenty.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
I mean when the pandemic hit.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
I got a we got a phone call to head
up to some executive's office.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
I had no idea what it was in reference to.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
In fact, I thought they were going to ask me
to stick around and do some busy work like manning cameras,
unless in case news broke. I had no idea that
they were going to ask me to take over that
one o'clock hour from Strayhance, Sarah and Kiki for a
temporary period of time to get us through the pandemic.
So I was blindsided by the call and the call
(08:28):
to action. But obviously I was very quick to say,
of course I'll do it, of course I'll step in.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
So this is how that hour started. So you go back, folks,
to March of twenty twenty. It started organically. Robock was
on set right with doctor Ashton and you will every
single day, and people were desperate for information. That is
one of the most necessary shows I've ever been I've
ever seen in television news because it was just important
and you were giving information people needed. We start to
(08:54):
get the pandemic. We're several months into it and maybe
starting to get a handle on it. The show begins
to evolve and I come on board in the fall
of twenty twenty as GMA three. What you need to.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
Know, Well, let me actually back up a little bit
to talk about the evolution as I saw it from
my perspective. So we were doing the show and I'm
not even going to credit our great ratings, and they
were unexpectedly even better than anyone could have imagined, because
of course there was a need. It wasn't that I
would never take credit that we were doing anything special,
But all of a sudden, ABC executives saw something finally
(09:30):
succeed in that hour. They had been struggling to get
something to succeed in that It's a tough time of day.
Who's home, Who's watching. Well, now you've got the pandemic,
everyone's home, everyone's watching. So we ended up realizing, hey,
we might have some formula that we can build on
to evolve out of the pandemic. We need to evolve
into news, we need to evolve into education, we need
to evolve into other stories beyond the pandemic.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
So we yes, in the fall of twenty twenty. I
do eventually come on board and the show takes off.
And in the first two years we're together, we get
Immy nominations, so Best Daytime Show, Informative Talk, we get
Emmy nominations for hosts. I should say we didn't win.
I should say that we did not win. What's the
(10:14):
line were supposed to say?
Speaker 3 (10:15):
It was always an honor to be nominated, which we
did feel.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
And we're very I mean seriously, the first you were together.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
We we knew we had something. We knew I mean, look,
it was great with Jen and me. That was phenomenal.
We felt really good about that, but clearly or something missing,
mostly some male energy, let's be honest.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
And you came.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
In and brought so much life to that show that
was necessary. I mean I could go on and on
about your talent and what you bring. And I was
so excited when I got that phone call that said, Hey,
how do you feel about TJ joining you on GMA three?
And I couldn't have been more excited because you were
the perfect person, the perfect partner in every way for
(10:58):
a show like that.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
With that text, Now, right, this wasn't just something we
went after and begged and screamed and yelled for It's
something that actually happened so organically the show did. Us
being a part of it did, And no, we didn't
want to leave. Let's be clear here. Yes we did
not want to leave that show, and we have talked
(11:20):
about it plenty of times. For two people who've been
in the industry twenty five plus years. At that point,
this was the dream job. We get to do news,
a little entertainment, a little inspiration. It was the perfect
show and you're getting to do it at the time
with my best friend. This was a show we did
not want to leave.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
I could have done that show for the next twenty
years and Ben the luckiest person on the planet.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
So folks with that anytime. There were headlines over the
past two plus years since we left that were not
I guess pleasant or whatever for the show, talking about
its rainings, what's going on with it? People? We got
used to get calls from tabloid folks and folks wanted
to react to things as if we're excited that something's
not going well that we always we have from the
(12:11):
jump been rooting for GMA three. I would have loved
Robes I know you would have in ten, fifteen, twenty
years see that show still thrive and go wow. I
was there and I helped start that thing.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
I was a part of it absolutely.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
And I will say, look, we have said this publicly too,
but I'll reiterate I have not and TJ has not
watched that show once since we left, mostly because it
was too painful too. It wasn't because we were saying, ah,
I forget them, no it we loved it so much.
We were so passionate about it that I actually couldn't
(12:45):
stomach to watch it because it was too hard, because
it would have been too painful for me to have watched.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
And to say that, we're saying, folks, not even a
solitary second of that show have we seen since we
left the network. Now I've passed the television and seeing
GMA on an airport or at a bar and at
least look up at the TV. I have no idea.
And but to your point, that is why it's not
a bitterness. It's a sadness about what could have been
(13:13):
and something we were proud of it. We were always
rooting from a distance for that show. So to hear
now and again the show is going to continue, but
everybody associated with it has been let go. That show
doesn't exist the way we saw it, the way we
started it, the way we left it. So what was
(13:34):
your reaction? Your first reaction to the news is what
I wanted to get to and wanted to get the
context first. But given all that, and folks can understand
now where we're coming from, to hear that that whole staff,
that everybody's gone, what did you think? I felt.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
I'm going to try not to get emotional.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
I felt so sad.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
I started thinking about starting the show and thoroughly Wins
and the excitement that we were onto something, that we
were building something and growing something that we all cared
so deeply about. I went flashed back to that moment
when we went out to California for the Emmys when
we were nominated. We were not only nominated for the show,
but for actually hosts, so we had two Emmy nominations
(14:14):
our first year out. We were so proud and the
future seemed so bright. So I think I just thought
about all the what ifs. I felt so sad for
all of those people who have worked so hard on
that show, and I just felt so frustrated that things
(14:35):
happened the way they happened because they did not happen
the way we wanted them to happen, or in any
way that we would have chosen for them to happen.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
You talked about I think this morning was the first
time I talked to you about the what if part.
We've talked about what happened j A three when the
news came out, But you think about what if? What
if we'd have done something different, What if that executive
had done something different, what if the network had done
something different? What if? Ever? Like all of the what ifs,
and when you get through some of those, you like,
(15:12):
what if we were able to continue what you're talking
about now, we're not. And please, folks, don't don't and
please call anybody out who puts out a headline that
misinterprets or tries to mess up our words. Here. We're
not suggesting in the least bit, oh you'll need us,
(15:33):
or look what happens when you don't have us. What
we're saying here is when we see something like this
that we love so much that has gotten into some
a trouble of some kind, if you will, we want
to contribute we want to help, We wish we could
have helped. We wish, well, wow, we didn't live it
in better shape. You do think back to those what
(15:54):
ifs and what the possibilities could have been if this
decision was made differently, or that decision made differently. It sucks, man,
it sucks.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
And I have not been able to talk about not
being a part of that show with anyone who I
love personally without getting weepy. That's how much we loved
that show. So it's been really hard to see what's
happened to it. And I think especially even watching all
(16:23):
the news and we've been able to do our morning
run and feel like we're at least a part of
the news cycle and feeling like we're helping to get
out important information because that's all been so confusing this
past year. But I have been yearning. I have wanted
so badly to be able to bring that to our show.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
It's been hard.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
The best way I can describe it is if you've
been benched as an athlete and you see your team
and you so badly want to contribute, You so badly
want to be on the field with them, And that's
how it's felt, and so I don't want to see
them lose the game. Like it's just it's disheartening, it's sad,
(17:04):
and it's frustrating, and I.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Just it just I'm my stomachs and knots.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
I literally and again I was on the phone again.
I passed the news along to you. But this was
before I think it all came out publicly. But one
of our representatives I was on the phone with you
were out somewhere and I was in the bedroom and
I didn't tell you this. I literally dropped to my
knees on the side of the bed and brought myself up.
I literally dropped and just said, oh no, oh no,
(17:32):
and a lot of that does. I mean, anybody that
loses a job your heart goes out to. But these
are folks that we saw day in day out grind
not get attention. Right. We were the little engine and
could everybody left us alone? The numbers were good. We
don't what those two low maintenance anchors over there who
got good chemistry. Everything's working, and we didn't get a
(17:54):
lot of love. Quite frankly, we didn't get all of attention.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
Because we didn't need it.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
He didn't need it. Damn. That's true. That is absolutely true.
The this is how that time. This is only a funny,
so I'm not saying they completely disregarded, but this is
how it felt. What year was It was twenty twenty
This was after an Emmy nomination. I believe it was.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
It was definitely after the Emmy nomination. It was twenty
twenty two.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Okay. So there was a big presentation, right, the big
presentation where the ABC News president comes out and all
hands on deck because a town hall. Everybody across the
network is on zoom all over the country and she's
making presentations bragging about each shows. Kim Godwin, Yes, is
there a name to this presentation? It was something. It
(18:45):
was kind of a town some town hall.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
We were all the shows were up, everybody was doing well,
so it was a it was a celebratory moment coming
out of the pandemic and we had all kind of
righted our ships and kind of adjusted to the new
ratings and we were doing well. Every show was, so
she was listing all of the successes.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
We were so excited because we knew we were waiting.
We were waiting. We we would hit two millions.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
I remember we had days where we hit two million viewers,
and we just thought, how is this possible? We were
so excited an afternoon show with very little resources, but
we were also averaging like over a million and a
half daily, so we knew we were going to finally
get our kudos. We're going to hear GMA three, you know,
is doing so great. We were all on the edge
(19:30):
of our seats.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Look and now you'll if I tell you this meeting
went our hour and a half, GMA three was never mentioned.
I mean she mentioned like the weekend overnight edition DAC
News after Dark, I mean stuff you did not mention.
We were never mentioned. And now when I tell you
that GMA three staff was devastated, devastated. We already don't
(19:55):
get enough love and attention, but to see those producers
and some of those folks who have and busting their butts,
and this was the moment where we knew we were
an asset. We knew all she's gonna give us all
kinds of We were wondering how big of the presentation
about us was going to be.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Aren't expectations funny?
Speaker 3 (20:11):
We had the highest of expectations, and we waited and
we waited, and we waited and Godwin never even mentioned
she had.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Slides, so you know this was this was thought out.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
This isn't she was just speaking extemporary extemporaneously and forgot
to mention us. Like in a in an Academy Awards speech,
you forget to thank your agent or you forget to
thank your wife. No, she had a full, like absolutely
highly produced presentation with slides and videos and pictures. Was
(20:47):
your face even on any of the slides? No, I
don't think so. No, you didn't.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Oh this Oh this was like this was the upfront
s babe.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Wasn't this wasn't No, no, no, it wasn't.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Wait, it was, but it was around that time, but
it was.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
It was an all hands on deck meeting. It is.
I haven't thought about it again to this moment, really,
but it was hilarious. You and I have been around
enough to wear you know. It wasn't a punch in
the gut tell us, I'm yes, sought for a twenty
five year old producer who's getting no love on a
show that's doing well. This was the one opportunity. They
were devastated by this. Yes, they were really hurt by this,
(21:23):
but to make up for it, don't worry news trickled
back up to Kim that I think you left out
a major show. She didn't know she did.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
She didn't know she did. But to make up for it,
we're thinking, she calls a meeting with the entire GMA
three staff. We collect there on sixty sixth Street, all
of us in this big room, waiting to hear what
she's going to do, what she's going to say, how
she's going to make this right.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
She brought cookies.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
She brought cookies.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
They were good.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
I didn't have one.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
I didn't either.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
I don't think anyone did.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
I was just assuming, what do you What do you say? Mate?
It was an honor? How do you do that? Start
naming shows at ABC News. You're going to say Nightline,
you gonna say twenty twenty, You're going to say evening News,
What is it? World newsnight? You're going to say GMA
does not How Yeah, okay, that was amazing. It was
(22:16):
funny at the time. But what I'm saying, this is
the show that is used to not getting a lot
of love and a lot of resources necessarily, But it
was a show that's used to doing well without needing
a lot of that, and we just had something that
was clicking in was working, and look, it had to
make some changes and whatever the changes were, it got
them to this point. And it's just it it's brutal
(22:38):
to think that the whole show and again you and
I'm not sure swhen are you please tell me? Are
they do they have the same anchors now? Is there
a rotating crop of anchors?
Speaker 2 (22:50):
I've heard bearying.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
I don't know that anyone knows what it's going to
look like going forward, so I couldn't speak to whether
or not it's going to stay with the anchors they
have up there now, but it was told to us
that perhaps they'll be rotating anchors. It feels, probably from
the folks who I've heard from who still work there,
very chaotic and there's a lot of fear. You know.
(23:11):
They don't know what's going to happen next, They don't
know what new changes may take place, if anyone else's
jobs are on the line. There's just a lot of fear,
as there are in so many places around this country
right now, with layoffs being the headline.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
But we know this is so.
Speaker 3 (23:26):
Deeply personal to us, and anytime you've got that kind
of fear and you're operating out of fear instead of support.
It changes the whole energy of the newsroom, of the
halls of GMA. I'm sure it's a very different feel.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
How do they get it back? Like I really wonder,
And obviously we know that the building, Well, where is
the where's the rallying cry? And who is that rallying
cry going to come from? There's a new ABC News president,
fairly new, right, Ell? Mean yeah, Ellen, to tell me,
i'n't not a full year.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
In No, but he's been at ABC fore long time, forever,
and he was the EP of World News tonight, So yes,
he's got a lot.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
Of But speak, where does it come from? Where is
the leadership come from? Where is who is in that
building that everybody can rally around? Let's just speak the
GMA for a second. Who is everybody can give that
rah rah speech? I don't I really don't know. And
I'm concerned moving forward, what's the next thing and the
(24:23):
next thing and the next thing. Because this is and
we talk to them all the time. Obviously we know
people in this building. There is not a pleasant word
we've heard. It's it's not even it's almost so disheartening
and discouraging to hear what's happening in the.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Building to say, oh, you guys are lucky you left
when you did dot dot that kind of a thing.
And I was like, no, that's not that's not a
fair statement at all, because I don't there's nothing about
me that feels lucky in any of this, not even
in the least. And we were talking this morning about just,
you know, being out of it, being on sidelines watching
(25:01):
this all unravel, and how we kind of even feel
differently now than maybe even we did before.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
God, I hate again, I hate to see, but I
think a lot of people might not realize about GMA
three the way it does work. It tapes at nine
to thirty in the morning. Now most people around the
country see it at lunchtime, right occur U one, Yeah,
but it tapes at nine thirty and we have to
be done taping by eleven. And there was a reason
for that, which also ties into this show. It tied
(25:32):
into possibly what's happening to it now. It was explained
to us it was done that way because they wanted
to save money. The crew that's there, that's working in studio,
the stage hands and all these they work for GMA,
but then they're done working by eleven am, So we
had to tape GMA three and be done by eleven
am so we could share those guys and they didn't
(25:55):
have to pay anybody extra.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
Well, they always had to stay that late, even before
GMA three happened, because you'll know, we tape this on
the East Coast in New York City, but there are
several time zones, so any news that breaks after GMA
on the East Coast gets off the air, there has
to be a staff there to break in for any
major event, and certainly that's happened plenty of times over
the years, so it was actually a built in safety
(26:18):
net for us to be there for GMA three between
nine thirty and eleven as well.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
How many times did one of.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
Us get pulled off the set upstairs to go downstairs
to update Good Morning America with some breaking news or
some new information or a different number that was released.
So it was in that sense no real financial skin
off their back because all the same people that had
to be there were there, and now instead of just
perhaps taking a break and chillin', they were manning cameras
(26:44):
and directing us.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
So we are talented so we actually haven't had a
built in cost if you will is it wasn't necessarily
costing the network to have now the two of us
anchor the show, no matter what our salaries were, because
we were just kind of tied into another salary structure
or whatever. Fine, but you did have a whole staff there,
and that's the money that they are saving this And
(27:08):
we talked about this plenty, and folks don't realize GMA
and GMA three there was a rift between these shows
that we got caught up in the middle of. And
this has been a part of so much of the
story since we've left, and people talk about chemistry and
fill ins and and continuity and familiar faces and talent
(27:28):
and all these things. We were under GMA three and
had one executive producer. We had GMA with its executive producer,
So anytime GMA wanted something from us, they had to
go ask permission from GMA three, not nine wink wink.
We don't necessarily have to ask permission, but we will
(27:49):
just to play nice. And there was a struggle robes
we got caught in the middle of in being pulled
between these two shows constantly.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
I remember one of the more frustrating ones was when
we were discussing whether or not you could come too
to London to cover the Queen's Jubilee, and there was
a big concern that they wanted you to stay back
to anchor GMA three, And we just thought, if we
already have the structure set up, why shouldn't we just
then take both of us and anchor the show from London.
(28:22):
But the amount of work and negotiating and back and
forth that had to happen for that two happened was
extraordinary and unnecessary and wouldn't be an issue now, I guess,
given this new structure. But when you had competing interest,
in competing shows, and competing egos and competing budgets, it
just it ended up being really difficult a lot of times.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
This is the ultimate compliment to the two of us
is that we were asked we were the automatic fill
ins on Good Morning America. We of course had GMA
three that we were anchoring. How many they talk about,
Look the eel can look up that we are not
knocking the show. The numbers are out there, the ratings
are out there. Today is I guess number one now
(29:07):
over Good Morning America consistently is now the ratings leader
in the morning. People so often talk about chemistry and
who's up there on set. You and I were called
on We've had vacations canceled before because they needed us
to get back and get on set to fill in.
They wouldn't. It was almost like they wouldn't let anybody
(29:29):
else fill in on that show. That's the point we
had gotten to with Good Morning America. So when the
GMA three thing comes around and yes, we got to
let go, there was a lot of talk about, well,
wait a minute, that's not the point is GMA three,
you're actually getting rid of the two people who are
actually you're de facto of anchors of the show as well.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
Well. I would even say, basically, in addition to filling
in on the show in an anchor seat, if anything
major happened in the world in any form or fashion,
we're hitting the road and we're there for Good Morning
America and you know, look the other host everyone's got
busy schedules. I would say we were both the de
facto get the big interview, travel to go and get
(30:23):
it anywhere people. So we filled multiple roles on both shows,
and it ended up sometimes It was a tug of
war that I definitely remember feeling pulled in so many
different directions and no one could decide who. I mean. Ultimately,
GMA wins, but it ended up being so much harder
than it seemed like it had to be.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
And now what we're seeing here with the show there
not because of the reasons we want it. We advocated
for GMA and JA three to be under one umbrella.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
We had conversations with Simone's swink saying, Simone, why can't
Good Morning America just take over GMA three and all
of these problems go away? And she said, trust me,
I know. So we had these conversations two and a
half years ago and knew with how things were happening
that it would be better for everybody.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
And again, let's be clear, we weren't advocating for our
staff to go on. No, no, we were only advocating
for us to be under that same GMA controlled an
umbrella to where we would have one person to be
able to say, yes, I'm sending this anchor here, I
want this anchor here, I want this person here instead
of us. Anytime yes, GMA wanted us, they had to
go through GMA three. Again not not wink wink, but
(31:38):
it just caused so much confusion and strife that was unnecessary.
That problem is being solved, but it's being forced. This
is at the.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Expense of the expense so much.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
Yes, it's and it's and it's Look, as you mentioned,
we're not we're not breaking any news here. Anyone can
look up the ratings. But it's just sad to see
what's happened so that it had to be a financial decision,
not a not a strategic decision, but it was a
financial reaction. And so there's a difference when you make
the decision because it's going to be better versus it's
(32:12):
because this is what we have to do.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
And again I don't know the show well enough now
to know what has happened. Look, television has changed, right,
they might have different competition now, new competition that was
a reason why the numbers went down or I don't
know what it may be, but it just I folks
looked at it, and I think so much emphasis and
so much has been put on our relationship and are
(32:35):
the reason we were together in the first place, and
that show came together and reason it may have worked
so well. This was and I will even give ABC credit.
I don't know if you and I would be in
a relationship today if it wasn't for ABC putting us together. Yes,
for years, Yes, on that show, on that show on
that network. I really do believe that, babe.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
Yeah, I think I remember the first time being out
on assignment with you. Was it twenty sixteen for President
Trump's first inauguration on the Mall? We had worked adjacently
with each other, and on the set you would come
in and I was the news anchor, and you'd come
in and do the segment seven and we would and
I always knew.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
I was like, Wow, that guy is so good.
Speaker 3 (33:16):
I love the chemistry and he brings it even when
he doesn't want to, even when it's the sappiest, most
ridiculous puppy story, you still sold it. And I saw
that in you, and we we jibbed from the moment.
So when we got to go, we didn't do a
lot together, but we were there on the mall together
covering President Trump, and that was where I think initial
(33:37):
spark went off, and we got another assignment pretty quickly afterwards.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
What was the one right after that Super Bowl that
was in Houston, yes, got that one in Houston. Okay,
that was fun. I can remember what you were wearing,
motorcycle jackets and jeans.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
That's hilarious.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
I remember that.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
I don't know well, because I don't even know.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
I'd have to go look at the picture. But I
do have a picture because Jesse Palmer was there. It
was you, me Jesse Palmer, and that was I just thought, Wow,
these are two of my favorite guys to work with,
and what a special So that was that for me
was when I just knew that I wanted to figure
out how to work with you. We started talking about
doing a podcast together.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
Back then we wanted to do an ABC News podcast
did together because.
Speaker 3 (34:19):
We thought we had this plan because we had so
much fun working together and so much respect for each
other working together, we said, you know what, let's put
a podcast together. It's funny how the order ended up
being the opposite, and then the ABC News executives will
hear it and they'll actually organically witness our yes, our chemistry,
and then they'll give us a show together. We actually
(34:41):
thought that it just all happened in reverse.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
Now we have a podcast, so so now we go, okay,
keep moving that forward. To that was twenty sixteen. Yeah,
and we Yeah, look, I used to come on set, Yes,
like you said, I didn't notice it, but you said
they would stick me down by you. Yep, anytime when
I was on set. But then you move forward to
what was the next one we the next opportunity we
(35:06):
had on together.
Speaker 3 (35:07):
Well, we started filling in together on the set of
Good Morning America. You would fill in for Michael Strahan
and I would fill in for Robin and do George.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
Much before twenty twenty. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
I actually it's all a blurb before twenty twenty, honestly,
but I know it was happening, And the moments it happened,
we would actually have to say to each other, Okay,
let's not have too much fun because it's gonna piss
off George, or it's gonna piss off the control room
because they're gonna hear like you too.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
Stop.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
So we were on our best behavior, but it was
almost as if we were giddy getting to work together.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
That's a true story. And what does that say about us?
That we were having such a good time that we
didn't want to upset everybody else?
Speaker 2 (35:44):
Yes, that I felt like that, Yeah, because.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
There's there there. It can be tense and it can
be left tight, and it can't be that kind that
we were. So we didn't want to spread joy. We
kept it in afraid of what repercussion.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
Yeah, we didn't want to be those annoying people who
were enjoying their anyway.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
Okay, so we're filling in together. But once you were
doing jim A three or the Pandemic show, you finally
took a vacation in June of twenty twenty. Yes, right,
and so this is where it all came about. I
ended up filling in for you for nine days. I
always remember it was nine days at the end of June,
(36:25):
and after that, affiliates everybody started buzzing about, Oh, those
two are going to be together now. It wasn't so
I didn't have an agent at the time. There was
nobody advocating for me. There was nobody saying, hey, what
about this. Hey, but they weren't even saying they were
looking for We're also.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
In the middle of a pandemic, so it was kind
of a strange time. I just remember I came back
from that. It was a road trip because we weren't
flying anywhere obviously, and I think within you would know
the day exactly. But I got a call from our
executive producer, Kat mackenzie and said, we have an idea.
How would you if we brought on a co anchor?
And I said, okay, but who?
Speaker 1 (37:05):
Yeah? Who?
Speaker 3 (37:06):
And she said TJ Holmes and I remember just thinking
this is so crazy. We spent years trying to figure
out how to convince the executives that we would be
good together, and now when I least expected it, when
I didn't even we weren't even advocating for it, all
of a sudden, now they're saying, hey, why don't you
two anchor together? And I laughed, I said, that is
(37:27):
a hard yes from me. And I always was shocked
by the next phone call I got, which was from you,
and you told me I don't know if I should
do that, And I just thought.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
Are you crazy?
Speaker 1 (37:40):
Why would you even?
Speaker 2 (37:41):
And you know what, it was a sweet reason why
you hesitated.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
Because to your point in the thing that had you
in tears here earlier, it was your baby, right, this
is something you started, and I didn't want to come
in after the fact and somebody's on our territory. This
is our thing that was my first hesitation, my first
reaction to it. And yes, we talked through it and
everything was fine eventually, but that was my first reaction.
(38:07):
And so we're to talk this out. We haven't talked
about GMA three this much in forever, so to be
talking it out now, it's getting sadder. Actually, as we're
talking about it, it was that this show has meant
everything in our lives. By that, I mean it's gotten
(38:27):
me to the person I'm spending the rest of my
life with. It got me to this incredible, awful episode
in my life that I don't wish upon anybody, but
it will absolutely be a big part of my story,
and it was actually the greatest achievement of my professional career.
All of those things are true, you know.
Speaker 3 (38:49):
It's Yes, the biggest prize that came out of that
show was our relationship, because we knew we liked each other,
but we fell.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
In love.
Speaker 3 (38:59):
On that show like we did, and so that is
also a huge reason why it will always forever be
a big part of me and us. I will also
tell you I don't know that I've ever shared this,
but it restored my faith in journalism because if you'll
(39:21):
recall the November before I got caught on a hot
mic frustrated about the fact that I could not report
on Jeffrey Epstein and had been for years unable to
get my story out, and I was almost certain my
career at ABC News was going to be over. At
that point, I got pulled off the air for a
(39:42):
month without them acknowledging it. I stopped filling in. You
didn't see me very much. I was begging to get
on the air basically to get a report here or
something there. And when the pandemic happened, all of a sudden,
I was the person there and available and stepped in
(40:02):
and was able to then do this show. And when
I got pandemic What you Need to Know, GMA three,
What You Need to Know, I felt like I found
my purpose again. I was deeply considering leaving the industry.
I was deeply considering not renewing a contract and walking
away forever from journalism because I was so disheartened. And
(40:23):
that show brought me back to life journalistically speaking, and
then I found the love of my life and the process.
So yeah, that show meant everything to me.
Speaker 1 (40:34):
And so it's rope. It's difficult anytime it's offensive, and
we can't answer everybody what is wildly offensive anybody anytime
somebody suggests that we might gloat or be excited or
root for the demise of that show or anybody at
(40:56):
that network, that place is special to us. That show
is special to us, and no matter what, we are
still rooting for it. But this was the first time
that you and I privately, certainly not publicly, but folks
(41:16):
might not believe this, this latest round of news is
the first time that we ever had a real thought
of or a desire or a wish that we could
be back there, a thought that man, I wish we
(41:39):
never left, or have a regret, even because we don't
deal in regrets at all. But this is special to us,
this show is, and this.
Speaker 2 (41:48):
Sucks, It absolutely sucks.
Speaker 3 (41:50):
Good Morning America saved my life. I mean I had
my Mamma Van, my mammogram in that Mamma Van because
of an assignment from Good Morning America. So that show
is This isn't just about a job or a career.
This is about for me life or death. I mean,
(42:10):
these are heavy, important, real feelings and topics that all
stem from that building and those people and that show,
and we are rooting for them, and there is yeah,
I mean, there's just so much sadness that we can't
be a part of it still, and we always we
(42:33):
never I think everyone knows this. Hopefully we've made it clear.
We never wanted to leave. We loved our jobs and
we loved the people we worked with, and we're so
sad to see what's happened.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
And you know what, it's fair to say, they're going
to be okay, right, they'll figure it out, they'll find
a way. When the industry is evolving and digital streaming,
a lot of attentions being put there. But these things
happen in the.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
My grandma, these things happen.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
But in the business long enough, you see these, you do?
You see these just awful turnovers and whatnot. And look,
I had another note in here that I wanted to
give you before we wrapped up, and not give you,
but I was wondering, do you remember do you have
a fond of GM A three memory? I didn't. I
(43:23):
didn't plan on this, but I'm thinking now for myself,
even a fond is GM A three memory?
Speaker 3 (43:33):
One of my I can tell you probably my favorite
favorite GM A three episode was when we were in
London on the final day, up on that rooftop and
just to say, look at how far this show has
come and look at us here, you know, after we
fought so hard to be there and to bring the
show that we had, we did feel like we had
the support of the network.
Speaker 2 (43:53):
Then in that moment, yes, yes, I was.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
Trying to remember. Yes, it was for me.
Speaker 3 (43:59):
I was like this, this is such a surreal, beautiful phenomenon,
And in that moment, I thought we made it.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
This show is relevant.
Speaker 3 (44:09):
It got the support of bringing its entire or not
its entire, but a large majority of its staff to
cover one of the biggest events in the world this century.
I felt the weight and monumentalness of that moment, and
I just really remember shooting that and feeling so much
joy on that.
Speaker 2 (44:26):
Rooftop with you.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
I had to go back. It's weird to go back
to London. We did shows out of London, full shows
out of London that were incredible. We had experiences around London,
to shooting different stories around that was incredible. That we
served both shows. That was a special time and look,
I want to make sure we say this well, I
(44:48):
don't know the anchor of Current DeMarco. Yes, I don't
know him well. I think i've met him before. I
don't know him well, but Eva with someone we have
known for a long time and just absolute and we
know how good she is and capable she is and kind,
all of.
Speaker 2 (45:04):
This absolutely kind, kind, as good as they come.
Speaker 1 (45:07):
We're absolutely rooting. This is not a we're making no comparisons.
They were put into a situation they didn't expect to
be put into with that show. So this this is
not a matter of us comparison, making comparison or we're better,
we can do it better. It's just a matter of
we did. We were there, and we're able to establish
(45:27):
that thing in a different way, and now they're in
different times and they're not doing as much trial, they're
not going live everywhere.
Speaker 2 (45:33):
That Yeah, I think it's important to point out too,
we don't know. That's the thing. We don't know what
would have happened, you know, dud We have no idea. Immediately,
we have no idea.
Speaker 1 (45:45):
Oh yeah, very next month we could have taken a
note that.
Speaker 3 (45:48):
The what ifs are gone, all stretches of the spectrum,
like who knows what would have happened or could have happened,
and that is such a The industry changes from month
to month and certainly from year to years, so who
knows what we would have been up against.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
But I loved it. It's true, So it's I couldn't
believe my reaction either genuine reaction to hear him say
over the phone that what had happened to GMA three
It was devastating. So we continue to root for them.
Our hearts go out to everybody that loses the job
(46:26):
over there, and we're rooting for him to come back
in a major way.
Speaker 3 (46:32):
Maybe this new restructuring will be exactly the lifeline that
they needed to really start growing and building back again,
and we certainly hope that's the case for everybody.
Speaker 1 (46:43):
And here's the lie. I guess we've heard these before,
but the line rethinking the way we work to future
proof our team regrettably includes reductions to our extraordinary staff.
That was the line from the statement may from the
ABC News president. And you hear that, Yeah, you understand it.
But when you're on the way out the door, that's tough.
(47:04):
That's tough. And look, you and I have been to
people on the way out the door for very different reasons.
But we have and it seems like nobody leaves that.
Who told us that nobody leaves? Obviously? Pretty?
Speaker 3 (47:15):
Yeah, I'm oh, I remember who told us that someone
who wants worked there?
Speaker 1 (47:21):
Who would know? Okay, you just can't get out of there?
Pretty Oh my goodness. So to our folks there, love you,
still rooting for you, and I guess the industry is changing.
I mean, go through the names. This is this is
the sign right, how much the industry is changed.
Speaker 3 (47:40):
To copy, next, next, Norah, O'Donnell.
Speaker 1 (47:45):
Yep, And we got a few more for you here
as well. Probably, But there's going to be more of
these names because the industry can't support the contracts. We've
been told this for several years. So these big, big,
top dollar talent you are going to see start to go.
Speaker 3 (48:01):
By the way, it's hard to justify twenty million dollar
plus contracts with these declining numbers, declining ratings, declining revenue.
Speaker 2 (48:09):
Something has to give.
Speaker 1 (48:10):
So was the result going to be cheaper, not as
well known, and maybe not as talented talent?
Speaker 2 (48:17):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (48:17):
Is that going to work?
Speaker 2 (48:18):
Who knows?
Speaker 3 (48:19):
I mean, it's it's a whole new world and a
whole new landscape with so many competing news sources.
Speaker 1 (48:26):
Well, Robes, I am very happy to still be sitting
next to you.
Speaker 2 (48:31):
Yeah, we got our podcast.
Speaker 1 (48:32):
So folks can see. She is still to this day
sitting to my left, just as if we were on
television right now. But folks, we always appreciate you listening
to us. For now, I'm GJ and I'm Amy.
Speaker 2 (48:42):
Have a great day, everybody,
Hey, the folks in this episode, did you see about
the latest newest thefty but for us heartbreaking round of
layoffs making headlines last weekend? With that, Welcome to this
episode of Amy and TJ Robes. We've been reporting a
lot about layoffs all over the all over the country.
It seems to pass several weeks having to do with
(00:23):
the federal government. I guess a lot of that, but
this round of layoffs hit very close to home, was
very personal. Were talking about our former network.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
I actually got a call from you. I was out
at a lunch and missed the headline that basically most
of our staff that we worked with daily, that we loved,
that we were rooting for from Afar was laid off.
Two hundred employees fired from ABC News, and a large
(00:52):
majority of them came from our former show GMA three.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Yeah, so we're talking to and again, I guess in media,
if you work in it long enough, these things just happen.
They these are I mean, these all the times that
it's happened, it always seems like, oh, this is the
one that the media industry is a really changing, This
is the course correction, and maybe this one will be
because things are going to streaming in digital. But this one,
when you hear a network like ABC News is laying
(01:17):
off two hundred people, which was the initial headline, that's
a big deal. And I guess we shouldn't necessarily be
surprised about where the industry is going.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
We're not surprised about where the industry is going.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
We're seeing it everywhere and the ratings are dropping. It's
not how much you gained year to year, but trying
to stop the bleeding. So the better off you are
is the fewer viewers you lost, but that it's a
game that is not winning, it's losing, and everyone kind
of knows this. There has to be some major restructuring
and reevaluating and honestly, how you're going to get younger folks,
(01:51):
younger people to watch television when that really has become
something that kids aren't doing. It isn't a habit of theirs.
They're on their phones, they're their tablets, so they're not
watching network news. So yes, perhaps this is inevitable. But
when you see two hundred ABC News employees being fired,
I think that amounts to about six percent of ABC
News's work staff. When it's concentrated on one show that
(02:15):
is even more specific and more detrimental to the folks
who were working on that show, and it was Yes,
it was our show.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
So let's if you're not familiar the headlines. I guess
Wall Street General was among the first to report there's
two hundred employees at ABC News is going to be
let go Nightline in twenty twenty. Those are long standing
staples of that network. They are now being merged into
one unit. Obviously robes anytimes there's two staffs merged into one,
(02:45):
people going to lose jobs. Then the five thirty eight website,
A lot of people might not realize or remember five
thirty eight started by Nate Silver, which did all the
great presidential predictions back around President Barack Obama during his elections.
ABC bought five point thirty eight. Well, now it's letting
it go. It's being shuttered, so fifteen employees are out
(03:05):
of a job. So the most jarring I guess changes
and headlines have to do with Yes, Good Morning America,
the flagship show where there was GMA and GMA three,
so three hours of Good Morning America. But folks didn't
realize that these two operated very separately.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
And that was, to be fully honest, That was always
a frustrating thing for us because we were juggling between
being correspondence and filling anchors for the flagship show Good
Morning America, and then at the same time being co
anchors for GMA three. And sometimes you would think that
would all be harmonious and would all make sense that
(03:42):
the two would go hand in hand, but oftentimes they
pushed against each other and it ended up feeling like
we were in a tug of war between GMA and
GMA three, and there.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
We were called in the middle of that. It feel
like it was.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
We absolutely were caught between the two so being assigned
two different things, or GMA wants you to go somewhere,
but GMA three wants you back anchoring the show, and
it was a battle sometimes daily, but certainly weekly.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
It felt like, so this is and this is now
why we are where we are. They have corrected that
error now if you will, but they say they've done
it for financial reasons. So yes, GMA and GMA three
are literally done in the same building in Times Square
on different floors. GMA uses the GMA three studio plenty,
but essentially there's just literally one floor up from each other,
(04:29):
but we all share the same building, all of our
dressing rooms running next to all.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
It was a shared space, and even the floor directors
and all the folks who were commanding the cameras and
all of those folks all were the same. So it
was basically the behind the scenes staff for Good Morning
America just went upstairs. We did a lot of times
in the eight o'clock hour anyway for GMA, and we
just kind of shifted anchors.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
So the difference, though, being is that GMA is crazy.
We this drove us crazy. We're going to get into that.
But GMA and GMA three have two totally different production
team as far as the producers go in the executive
producer are two totally separate units. So there's not a
synergy that you would think that these two shows have.
(05:15):
They're completely produced separately from each other. We didn't even
the producing teams don't necessarily even talk to each other
and coordinate. They're two separate, totally separate shore.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
Sometimes we were doing the coordinating, going back and forth
between the executive producers, trying to figure out where we
were supposed to be, like physically.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
On a story or on an assignment.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
So that was always a little confusing because GMA three
was under the umbrella of ABC News Live, the digital
online version of ABC News, so it truly was a
completely different status.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
And we're gonna explain that to in a second. It
took us the longest to figure out why exactly that
was done. But what we're saying here and what we're
setting up was we're explaining why the GMA three staff
is now gone because it was a separate staff. So
what they've now done is taken GMA three and put
it completely under the control of GMA and GMA's executive
producer Simone Swink, so now it's all one unit. And
(06:09):
to do that, you had to get rid of the
entire staff of GMA three. That entire staff are folks,
robes who were with you from the very beginning, with me,
from the very beginning when we started of that show,
and they're all gone now, and we both got that
news last week. And I will ask you now, you
(06:32):
know before I ask you that this is important to
say because people will understand your reaction to it, but
you have to to fully understand. You have to understand
how the show started. Now this hour on the network
is around one o'clock GMA three. What was it called
it first GMI Demic before when stray and uh oh.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
It was it was straight Hand, Sarah and Kekeyankey. First
it was straight Hand and Sarah. Then it became straighthand
Sarah and kekeyp And then when the pandemicemic hit, it
was very obvious pretty quickly that that show was not
going to be able to continue in the situation this
world was in. And it truly was an opportunity to
create a show that served the public with the information
(07:13):
that we so desperately needed because things were constantly changing
and evolving. We were scared for our lives, and I
felt like, honestly, for the first time in my journalistic career,
I was doing something worthy of public attention and public safety,
and it was I felt so fulfilled starting that show,
just knowing that we were actually giving people potentially life
(07:35):
saving information. So that's what the show became, or at
least initially began, as it grew from a real organic need.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
But the show was necessary without Now what was the
name it was a pandemic year, No, it was just
called pandemic. What you need to know? Yes, right. That
started in March, right of twenty twenty or is it April.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
It was March of twenty twenty.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
I mean when the pandemic hit.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
I got a we got a phone call to head
up to some executive's office.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
I had no idea what it was in reference to.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
In fact, I thought they were going to ask me
to stick around and do some busy work like manning cameras,
unless in case news broke. I had no idea that
they were going to ask me to take over that
one o'clock hour from Strayhance, Sarah and Kiki for a
temporary period of time to get us through the pandemic.
So I was blindsided by the call and the call
(08:28):
to action. But obviously I was very quick to say,
of course I'll do it, of course I'll step in.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
So this is how that hour started. So you go back, folks,
to March of twenty twenty. It started organically. Robock was
on set right with doctor Ashton and you will every
single day, and people were desperate for information. That is
one of the most necessary shows I've ever been I've
ever seen in television news because it was just important
and you were giving information people needed. We start to
(08:54):
get the pandemic. We're several months into it and maybe
starting to get a handle on it. The show begins
to evolve and I come on board in the fall
of twenty twenty as GMA three. What you need to.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
Know, Well, let me actually back up a little bit
to talk about the evolution as I saw it from
my perspective. So we were doing the show and I'm
not even going to credit our great ratings, and they
were unexpectedly even better than anyone could have imagined, because
of course there was a need. It wasn't that I
would never take credit that we were doing anything special,
But all of a sudden, ABC executives saw something finally
(09:30):
succeed in that hour. They had been struggling to get
something to succeed in that It's a tough time of day.
Who's home, Who's watching. Well, now you've got the pandemic,
everyone's home, everyone's watching. So we ended up realizing, hey,
we might have some formula that we can build on
to evolve out of the pandemic. We need to evolve
into news, we need to evolve into education, we need
to evolve into other stories beyond the pandemic.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
So we yes, in the fall of twenty twenty. I
do eventually come on board and the show takes off.
And in the first two years we're together, we get
Immy nominations, so Best Daytime Show, Informative Talk, we get
Emmy nominations for hosts. I should say we didn't win.
I should say that we did not win. What's the
(10:14):
line were supposed to say?
Speaker 3 (10:15):
It was always an honor to be nominated, which we
did feel.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
And we're very I mean seriously, the first you were together.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
We we knew we had something. We knew I mean, look,
it was great with Jen and me. That was phenomenal.
We felt really good about that, but clearly or something missing,
mostly some male energy, let's be honest.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
And you came.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
In and brought so much life to that show that
was necessary. I mean I could go on and on
about your talent and what you bring. And I was
so excited when I got that phone call that said, Hey,
how do you feel about TJ joining you on GMA three?
And I couldn't have been more excited because you were
the perfect person, the perfect partner in every way for
(10:58):
a show like that.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
With that text, Now, right, this wasn't just something we
went after and begged and screamed and yelled for It's
something that actually happened so organically the show did. Us
being a part of it did, And no, we didn't
want to leave. Let's be clear here. Yes we did
not want to leave that show, and we have talked
(11:20):
about it plenty of times. For two people who've been
in the industry twenty five plus years. At that point,
this was the dream job. We get to do news,
a little entertainment, a little inspiration. It was the perfect
show and you're getting to do it at the time
with my best friend. This was a show we did
not want to leave.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
I could have done that show for the next twenty
years and Ben the luckiest person on the planet.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
So folks with that anytime. There were headlines over the
past two plus years since we left that were not
I guess pleasant or whatever for the show, talking about
its rainings, what's going on with it? People? We got
used to get calls from tabloid folks and folks wanted
to react to things as if we're excited that something's
not going well that we always we have from the
(12:11):
jump been rooting for GMA three. I would have loved
Robes I know you would have in ten, fifteen, twenty
years see that show still thrive and go wow. I
was there and I helped start that thing.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
I was a part of it absolutely.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
And I will say, look, we have said this publicly too,
but I'll reiterate I have not and TJ has not
watched that show once since we left, mostly because it
was too painful too. It wasn't because we were saying, ah,
I forget them, no it we loved it so much.
We were so passionate about it that I actually couldn't
(12:45):
stomach to watch it because it was too hard, because
it would have been too painful for me to have watched.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
And to say that, we're saying, folks, not even a
solitary second of that show have we seen since we
left the network. Now I've passed the television and seeing
GMA on an airport or at a bar and at
least look up at the TV. I have no idea.
And but to your point, that is why it's not
a bitterness. It's a sadness about what could have been
(13:13):
and something we were proud of it. We were always
rooting from a distance for that show. So to hear
now and again the show is going to continue, but
everybody associated with it has been let go. That show
doesn't exist the way we saw it, the way we
started it, the way we left it. So what was
(13:34):
your reaction? Your first reaction to the news is what
I wanted to get to and wanted to get the
context first. But given all that, and folks can understand
now where we're coming from, to hear that that whole staff,
that everybody's gone, what did you think? I felt.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
I'm going to try not to get emotional.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
I felt so sad.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
I started thinking about starting the show and thoroughly Wins
and the excitement that we were onto something, that we
were building something and growing something that we all cared
so deeply about. I went flashed back to that moment
when we went out to California for the Emmys when
we were nominated. We were not only nominated for the show,
but for actually hosts, so we had two Emmy nominations
(14:14):
our first year out. We were so proud and the
future seemed so bright. So I think I just thought
about all the what ifs. I felt so sad for
all of those people who have worked so hard on
that show, and I just felt so frustrated that things
(14:35):
happened the way they happened because they did not happen
the way we wanted them to happen, or in any
way that we would have chosen for them to happen.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
You talked about I think this morning was the first
time I talked to you about the what if part.
We've talked about what happened j A three when the
news came out, But you think about what if? What
if we'd have done something different, What if that executive
had done something different, what if the network had done
something different? What if? Ever? Like all of the what ifs,
and when you get through some of those, you like,
(15:12):
what if we were able to continue what you're talking
about now, we're not. And please, folks, don't don't and
please call anybody out who puts out a headline that
misinterprets or tries to mess up our words. Here. We're
not suggesting in the least bit, oh you'll need us,
(15:33):
or look what happens when you don't have us. What
we're saying here is when we see something like this
that we love so much that has gotten into some
a trouble of some kind, if you will, we want
to contribute we want to help, We wish we could
have helped. We wish, well, wow, we didn't live it
in better shape. You do think back to those what
(15:54):
ifs and what the possibilities could have been if this
decision was made differently, or that decision made differently. It sucks, man,
it sucks.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
And I have not been able to talk about not
being a part of that show with anyone who I
love personally without getting weepy. That's how much we loved
that show. So it's been really hard to see what's
happened to it. And I think especially even watching all
(16:23):
the news and we've been able to do our morning
run and feel like we're at least a part of
the news cycle and feeling like we're helping to get
out important information because that's all been so confusing this
past year. But I have been yearning. I have wanted
so badly to be able to bring that to our show.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
It's been hard.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
The best way I can describe it is if you've
been benched as an athlete and you see your team
and you so badly want to contribute, You so badly
want to be on the field with them, And that's
how it's felt, and so I don't want to see
them lose the game. Like it's just it's disheartening, it's sad,
(17:04):
and it's frustrating, and I.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Just it just I'm my stomachs and knots.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
I literally and again I was on the phone again.
I passed the news along to you. But this was
before I think it all came out publicly. But one
of our representatives I was on the phone with you
were out somewhere and I was in the bedroom and
I didn't tell you this. I literally dropped to my
knees on the side of the bed and brought myself up.
I literally dropped and just said, oh no, oh no,
(17:32):
and a lot of that does. I mean, anybody that
loses a job your heart goes out to. But these
are folks that we saw day in day out grind
not get attention. Right. We were the little engine and
could everybody left us alone? The numbers were good. We
don't what those two low maintenance anchors over there who
got good chemistry. Everything's working, and we didn't get a
(17:54):
lot of love. Quite frankly, we didn't get all of attention.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
Because we didn't need it.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
He didn't need it. Damn. That's true. That is absolutely true.
The this is how that time. This is only a funny,
so I'm not saying they completely disregarded, but this is
how it felt. What year was It was twenty twenty
This was after an Emmy nomination. I believe it was.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
It was definitely after the Emmy nomination. It was twenty
twenty two.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Okay. So there was a big presentation, right, the big
presentation where the ABC News president comes out and all
hands on deck because a town hall. Everybody across the
network is on zoom all over the country and she's
making presentations bragging about each shows. Kim Godwin, Yes, is
there a name to this presentation? It was something. It
(18:45):
was kind of a town some town hall.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
We were all the shows were up, everybody was doing well,
so it was a it was a celebratory moment coming
out of the pandemic and we had all kind of
righted our ships and kind of adjusted to the new
ratings and we were doing well. Every show was, so
she was listing all of the successes.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
We were so excited because we knew we were waiting.
We were waiting. We we would hit two millions.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
I remember we had days where we hit two million viewers,
and we just thought, how is this possible? We were
so excited an afternoon show with very little resources, but
we were also averaging like over a million and a
half daily, so we knew we were going to finally
get our kudos. We're going to hear GMA three, you know,
is doing so great. We were all on the edge
(19:30):
of our seats.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Look and now you'll if I tell you this meeting
went our hour and a half, GMA three was never mentioned.
I mean she mentioned like the weekend overnight edition DAC
News after Dark, I mean stuff you did not mention.
We were never mentioned. And now when I tell you
that GMA three staff was devastated, devastated. We already don't
(19:55):
get enough love and attention, but to see those producers
and some of those folks who have and busting their butts,
and this was the moment where we knew we were
an asset. We knew all she's gonna give us all
kinds of We were wondering how big of the presentation
about us was going to be.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Aren't expectations funny?
Speaker 3 (20:11):
We had the highest of expectations, and we waited and
we waited, and we waited and Godwin never even mentioned
she had.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Slides, so you know this was this was thought out.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
This isn't she was just speaking extemporary extemporaneously and forgot
to mention us. Like in a in an Academy Awards speech,
you forget to thank your agent or you forget to
thank your wife. No, she had a full, like absolutely
highly produced presentation with slides and videos and pictures. Was
(20:47):
your face even on any of the slides? No, I
don't think so. No, you didn't.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Oh this Oh this was like this was the upfront
s babe.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Wasn't this wasn't No, no, no, it wasn't.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Wait, it was, but it was around that time, but
it was.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
It was an all hands on deck meeting. It is.
I haven't thought about it again to this moment, really,
but it was hilarious. You and I have been around
enough to wear you know. It wasn't a punch in
the gut tell us, I'm yes, sought for a twenty
five year old producer who's getting no love on a
show that's doing well. This was the one opportunity. They
were devastated by this. Yes, they were really hurt by this,
(21:23):
but to make up for it, don't worry news trickled
back up to Kim that I think you left out
a major show. She didn't know she did.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
She didn't know she did. But to make up for it,
we're thinking, she calls a meeting with the entire GMA
three staff. We collect there on sixty sixth Street, all
of us in this big room, waiting to hear what
she's going to do, what she's going to say, how
she's going to make this right.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
She brought cookies.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
She brought cookies.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
They were good.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
I didn't have one.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
I didn't either.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
I don't think anyone did.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
I was just assuming, what do you What do you say? Mate?
It was an honor? How do you do that? Start
naming shows at ABC News. You're going to say Nightline,
you gonna say twenty twenty, You're going to say evening News,
What is it? World newsnight? You're going to say GMA
does not How Yeah, okay, that was amazing. It was
(22:16):
funny at the time. But what I'm saying, this is
the show that is used to not getting a lot
of love and a lot of resources necessarily, But it
was a show that's used to doing well without needing
a lot of that, and we just had something that
was clicking in was working, and look, it had to
make some changes and whatever the changes were, it got
them to this point. And it's just it it's brutal
(22:38):
to think that the whole show and again you and
I'm not sure swhen are you please tell me? Are
they do they have the same anchors now? Is there
a rotating crop of anchors?
Speaker 2 (22:50):
I've heard bearying.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
I don't know that anyone knows what it's going to
look like going forward, so I couldn't speak to whether
or not it's going to stay with the anchors they
have up there now, but it was told to us
that perhaps they'll be rotating anchors. It feels, probably from
the folks who I've heard from who still work there,
very chaotic and there's a lot of fear. You know.
(23:11):
They don't know what's going to happen next, They don't
know what new changes may take place, if anyone else's
jobs are on the line. There's just a lot of fear,
as there are in so many places around this country
right now, with layoffs being the headline.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
But we know this is so.
Speaker 3 (23:26):
Deeply personal to us, and anytime you've got that kind
of fear and you're operating out of fear instead of support.
It changes the whole energy of the newsroom, of the
halls of GMA. I'm sure it's a very different feel.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
How do they get it back? Like I really wonder,
And obviously we know that the building, Well, where is
the where's the rallying cry? And who is that rallying
cry going to come from? There's a new ABC News president,
fairly new, right, Ell? Mean yeah, Ellen, to tell me,
i'n't not a full year.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
In No, but he's been at ABC fore long time, forever,
and he was the EP of World News tonight, So yes,
he's got a lot.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
Of But speak, where does it come from? Where is
the leadership come from? Where is who is in that
building that everybody can rally around? Let's just speak the
GMA for a second. Who is everybody can give that
rah rah speech? I don't I really don't know. And
I'm concerned moving forward, what's the next thing and the
(24:23):
next thing and the next thing. Because this is and
we talk to them all the time. Obviously we know
people in this building. There is not a pleasant word
we've heard. It's it's not even it's almost so disheartening
and discouraging to hear what's happening in the.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Building to say, oh, you guys are lucky you left
when you did dot dot that kind of a thing.
And I was like, no, that's not that's not a
fair statement at all, because I don't there's nothing about
me that feels lucky in any of this, not even
in the least. And we were talking this morning about just,
you know, being out of it, being on sidelines watching
(25:01):
this all unravel, and how we kind of even feel
differently now than maybe even we did before.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
God, I hate again, I hate to see, but I
think a lot of people might not realize about GMA
three the way it does work. It tapes at nine
to thirty in the morning. Now most people around the
country see it at lunchtime, right occur U one, Yeah,
but it tapes at nine thirty and we have to
be done taping by eleven. And there was a reason
for that, which also ties into this show. It tied
(25:32):
into possibly what's happening to it now. It was explained
to us it was done that way because they wanted
to save money. The crew that's there, that's working in studio,
the stage hands and all these they work for GMA,
but then they're done working by eleven am, So we
had to tape GMA three and be done by eleven
am so we could share those guys and they didn't
(25:55):
have to pay anybody extra.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
Well, they always had to stay that late, even before
GMA three happened, because you'll know, we tape this on
the East Coast in New York City, but there are
several time zones, so any news that breaks after GMA
on the East Coast gets off the air, there has
to be a staff there to break in for any
major event, and certainly that's happened plenty of times over
the years, so it was actually a built in safety
(26:18):
net for us to be there for GMA three between
nine thirty and eleven as well.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
How many times did one of.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
Us get pulled off the set upstairs to go downstairs
to update Good Morning America with some breaking news or
some new information or a different number that was released.
So it was in that sense no real financial skin
off their back because all the same people that had
to be there were there, and now instead of just
perhaps taking a break and chillin', they were manning cameras
(26:44):
and directing us.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
So we are talented so we actually haven't had a
built in cost if you will is it wasn't necessarily
costing the network to have now the two of us
anchor the show, no matter what our salaries were, because
we were just kind of tied into another salary structure
or whatever. Fine, but you did have a whole staff there,
and that's the money that they are saving this And
(27:08):
we talked about this plenty, and folks don't realize GMA
and GMA three there was a rift between these shows
that we got caught up in the middle of. And
this has been a part of so much of the
story since we've left, and people talk about chemistry and
fill ins and and continuity and familiar faces and talent
(27:28):
and all these things. We were under GMA three and
had one executive producer. We had GMA with its executive producer,
So anytime GMA wanted something from us, they had to
go ask permission from GMA three, not nine wink wink.
We don't necessarily have to ask permission, but we will
(27:49):
just to play nice. And there was a struggle robes
we got caught in the middle of in being pulled
between these two shows constantly.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
I remember one of the more frustrating ones was when
we were discussing whether or not you could come too
to London to cover the Queen's Jubilee, and there was
a big concern that they wanted you to stay back
to anchor GMA three, And we just thought, if we
already have the structure set up, why shouldn't we just
then take both of us and anchor the show from London.
(28:22):
But the amount of work and negotiating and back and
forth that had to happen for that two happened was
extraordinary and unnecessary and wouldn't be an issue now, I guess,
given this new structure. But when you had competing interest,
in competing shows, and competing egos and competing budgets, it
just it ended up being really difficult a lot of times.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
This is the ultimate compliment to the two of us
is that we were asked we were the automatic fill
ins on Good Morning America. We of course had GMA
three that we were anchoring. How many they talk about,
Look the eel can look up that we are not
knocking the show. The numbers are out there, the ratings
are out there. Today is I guess number one now
(29:07):
over Good Morning America consistently is now the ratings leader
in the morning. People so often talk about chemistry and
who's up there on set. You and I were called
on We've had vacations canceled before because they needed us
to get back and get on set to fill in.
They wouldn't. It was almost like they wouldn't let anybody
(29:29):
else fill in on that show. That's the point we
had gotten to with Good Morning America. So when the
GMA three thing comes around and yes, we got to
let go, there was a lot of talk about, well,
wait a minute, that's not the point is GMA three,
you're actually getting rid of the two people who are
actually you're de facto of anchors of the show as well.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
Well. I would even say, basically, in addition to filling
in on the show in an anchor seat, if anything
major happened in the world in any form or fashion,
we're hitting the road and we're there for Good Morning
America and you know, look the other host everyone's got
busy schedules. I would say we were both the de
facto get the big interview, travel to go and get
(30:23):
it anywhere people. So we filled multiple roles on both shows,
and it ended up sometimes It was a tug of
war that I definitely remember feeling pulled in so many
different directions and no one could decide who. I mean. Ultimately,
GMA wins, but it ended up being so much harder
than it seemed like it had to be.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
And now what we're seeing here with the show there
not because of the reasons we want it. We advocated
for GMA and JA three to be under one umbrella.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
We had conversations with Simone's swink saying, Simone, why can't
Good Morning America just take over GMA three and all
of these problems go away? And she said, trust me,
I know. So we had these conversations two and a
half years ago and knew with how things were happening
that it would be better for everybody.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
And again, let's be clear, we weren't advocating for our
staff to go on. No, no, we were only advocating
for us to be under that same GMA controlled an
umbrella to where we would have one person to be
able to say, yes, I'm sending this anchor here, I
want this anchor here, I want this person here instead
of us. Anytime yes, GMA wanted us, they had to
go through GMA three. Again not not wink wink, but
(31:38):
it just caused so much confusion and strife that was unnecessary.
That problem is being solved, but it's being forced. This
is at the.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Expense of the expense so much.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
Yes, it's and it's and it's Look, as you mentioned,
we're not we're not breaking any news here. Anyone can
look up the ratings. But it's just sad to see
what's happened so that it had to be a financial decision,
not a not a strategic decision, but it was a
financial reaction. And so there's a difference when you make
the decision because it's going to be better versus it's
(32:12):
because this is what we have to do.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
And again I don't know the show well enough now
to know what has happened. Look, television has changed, right,
they might have different competition now, new competition that was
a reason why the numbers went down or I don't
know what it may be, but it just I folks
looked at it, and I think so much emphasis and
so much has been put on our relationship and are
(32:35):
the reason we were together in the first place, and
that show came together and reason it may have worked
so well. This was and I will even give ABC credit.
I don't know if you and I would be in
a relationship today if it wasn't for ABC putting us together. Yes,
for years, Yes, on that show, on that show on
that network. I really do believe that, babe.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
Yeah, I think I remember the first time being out
on assignment with you. Was it twenty sixteen for President
Trump's first inauguration on the Mall? We had worked adjacently
with each other, and on the set you would come
in and I was the news anchor, and you'd come
in and do the segment seven and we would and
I always knew.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
I was like, Wow, that guy is so good.
Speaker 3 (33:16):
I love the chemistry and he brings it even when
he doesn't want to, even when it's the sappiest, most
ridiculous puppy story, you still sold it. And I saw
that in you, and we we jibbed from the moment.
So when we got to go, we didn't do a
lot together, but we were there on the mall together
covering President Trump, and that was where I think initial
(33:37):
spark went off, and we got another assignment pretty quickly afterwards.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
What was the one right after that Super Bowl that
was in Houston, yes, got that one in Houston. Okay,
that was fun. I can remember what you were wearing,
motorcycle jackets and jeans.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
That's hilarious.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
I remember that.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
I don't know well, because I don't even know.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
I'd have to go look at the picture. But I
do have a picture because Jesse Palmer was there. It
was you, me Jesse Palmer, and that was I just thought, Wow,
these are two of my favorite guys to work with,
and what a special So that was that for me
was when I just knew that I wanted to figure
out how to work with you. We started talking about
doing a podcast together.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
Back then we wanted to do an ABC News podcast
did together because.
Speaker 3 (34:19):
We thought we had this plan because we had so
much fun working together and so much respect for each
other working together, we said, you know what, let's put
a podcast together. It's funny how the order ended up
being the opposite, and then the ABC News executives will
hear it and they'll actually organically witness our yes, our chemistry,
and then they'll give us a show together. We actually
(34:41):
thought that it just all happened in reverse.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
Now we have a podcast, so so now we go, okay,
keep moving that forward. To that was twenty sixteen. Yeah,
and we Yeah, look, I used to come on set, Yes,
like you said, I didn't notice it, but you said
they would stick me down by you. Yep, anytime when
I was on set. But then you move forward to
what was the next one we the next opportunity we
(35:06):
had on together.
Speaker 3 (35:07):
Well, we started filling in together on the set of
Good Morning America. You would fill in for Michael Strahan
and I would fill in for Robin and do George.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
Much before twenty twenty. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
I actually it's all a blurb before twenty twenty, honestly,
but I know it was happening, And the moments it happened,
we would actually have to say to each other, Okay,
let's not have too much fun because it's gonna piss
off George, or it's gonna piss off the control room
because they're gonna hear like you too.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
Stop.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
So we were on our best behavior, but it was
almost as if we were giddy getting to work together.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
That's a true story. And what does that say about us?
That we were having such a good time that we
didn't want to upset everybody else?
Speaker 2 (35:44):
Yes, that I felt like that, Yeah, because.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
There's there there. It can be tense and it can
be left tight, and it can't be that kind that
we were. So we didn't want to spread joy. We
kept it in afraid of what repercussion.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
Yeah, we didn't want to be those annoying people who
were enjoying their anyway.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
Okay, so we're filling in together. But once you were
doing jim A three or the Pandemic show, you finally
took a vacation in June of twenty twenty. Yes, right,
and so this is where it all came about. I
ended up filling in for you for nine days. I
always remember it was nine days at the end of June,
(36:25):
and after that, affiliates everybody started buzzing about, Oh, those
two are going to be together now. It wasn't so
I didn't have an agent at the time. There was
nobody advocating for me. There was nobody saying, hey, what
about this. Hey, but they weren't even saying they were
looking for We're also.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
In the middle of a pandemic, so it was kind
of a strange time. I just remember I came back
from that. It was a road trip because we weren't
flying anywhere obviously, and I think within you would know
the day exactly. But I got a call from our
executive producer, Kat mackenzie and said, we have an idea.
How would you if we brought on a co anchor?
And I said, okay, but who?
Speaker 1 (37:05):
Yeah? Who?
Speaker 3 (37:06):
And she said TJ Holmes and I remember just thinking
this is so crazy. We spent years trying to figure
out how to convince the executives that we would be
good together, and now when I least expected it, when
I didn't even we weren't even advocating for it, all
of a sudden, now they're saying, hey, why don't you
two anchor together? And I laughed, I said, that is
(37:27):
a hard yes from me. And I always was shocked
by the next phone call I got, which was from you,
and you told me I don't know if I should
do that, And I just thought.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
Are you crazy?
Speaker 1 (37:40):
Why would you even?
Speaker 2 (37:41):
And you know what, it was a sweet reason why
you hesitated.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
Because to your point in the thing that had you
in tears here earlier, it was your baby, right, this
is something you started, and I didn't want to come
in after the fact and somebody's on our territory. This
is our thing that was my first hesitation, my first
reaction to it. And yes, we talked through it and
everything was fine eventually, but that was my first reaction.
(38:07):
And so we're to talk this out. We haven't talked
about GMA three this much in forever, so to be
talking it out now, it's getting sadder. Actually, as we're
talking about it, it was that this show has meant
everything in our lives. By that, I mean it's gotten
(38:27):
me to the person I'm spending the rest of my
life with. It got me to this incredible, awful episode
in my life that I don't wish upon anybody, but
it will absolutely be a big part of my story,
and it was actually the greatest achievement of my professional career.
All of those things are true, you know.
Speaker 3 (38:49):
It's Yes, the biggest prize that came out of that
show was our relationship, because we knew we liked each other,
but we fell.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
In love.
Speaker 3 (38:59):
On that show like we did, and so that is
also a huge reason why it will always forever be
a big part of me and us. I will also
tell you I don't know that I've ever shared this,
but it restored my faith in journalism because if you'll
(39:21):
recall the November before I got caught on a hot
mic frustrated about the fact that I could not report
on Jeffrey Epstein and had been for years unable to
get my story out, and I was almost certain my
career at ABC News was going to be over. At
that point, I got pulled off the air for a
(39:42):
month without them acknowledging it. I stopped filling in. You
didn't see me very much. I was begging to get
on the air basically to get a report here or
something there. And when the pandemic happened, all of a sudden,
I was the person there and available and stepped in
(40:02):
and was able to then do this show. And when
I got pandemic What you Need to Know, GMA three,
What You Need to Know, I felt like I found
my purpose again. I was deeply considering leaving the industry.
I was deeply considering not renewing a contract and walking
away forever from journalism because I was so disheartened. And
(40:23):
that show brought me back to life journalistically speaking, and
then I found the love of my life and the process.
So yeah, that show meant everything to me.
Speaker 1 (40:34):
And so it's rope. It's difficult anytime it's offensive, and
we can't answer everybody what is wildly offensive anybody anytime
somebody suggests that we might gloat or be excited or
root for the demise of that show or anybody at
(40:56):
that network, that place is special to us. That show
is special to us, and no matter what, we are
still rooting for it. But this was the first time
that you and I privately, certainly not publicly, but folks
(41:16):
might not believe this, this latest round of news is
the first time that we ever had a real thought
of or a desire or a wish that we could
be back there, a thought that man, I wish we
(41:39):
never left, or have a regret, even because we don't
deal in regrets at all. But this is special to us,
this show is, and this.
Speaker 2 (41:48):
Sucks, It absolutely sucks.
Speaker 3 (41:50):
Good Morning America saved my life. I mean I had
my Mamma Van, my mammogram in that Mamma Van because
of an assignment from Good Morning America. So that show
is This isn't just about a job or a career.
This is about for me life or death. I mean,
(42:10):
these are heavy, important, real feelings and topics that all
stem from that building and those people and that show,
and we are rooting for them, and there is yeah,
I mean, there's just so much sadness that we can't
be a part of it still, and we always we
(42:33):
never I think everyone knows this. Hopefully we've made it clear.
We never wanted to leave. We loved our jobs and
we loved the people we worked with, and we're so
sad to see what's happened.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
And you know what, it's fair to say, they're going
to be okay, right, they'll figure it out, they'll find
a way. When the industry is evolving and digital streaming,
a lot of attentions being put there. But these things
happen in the.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
My grandma, these things happen.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
But in the business long enough, you see these, you do?
You see these just awful turnovers and whatnot. And look,
I had another note in here that I wanted to
give you before we wrapped up, and not give you,
but I was wondering, do you remember do you have
a fond of GM A three memory? I didn't. I
(43:23):
didn't plan on this, but I'm thinking now for myself,
even a fond is GM A three memory?
Speaker 3 (43:33):
One of my I can tell you probably my favorite
favorite GM A three episode was when we were in
London on the final day, up on that rooftop and
just to say, look at how far this show has
come and look at us here, you know, after we
fought so hard to be there and to bring the
show that we had, we did feel like we had
the support of the network.
Speaker 2 (43:53):
Then in that moment, yes, yes, I was.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
Trying to remember. Yes, it was for me.
Speaker 3 (43:59):
I was like this, this is such a surreal, beautiful phenomenon,
And in that moment, I thought we made it.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
This show is relevant.
Speaker 3 (44:09):
It got the support of bringing its entire or not
its entire, but a large majority of its staff to
cover one of the biggest events in the world this century.
I felt the weight and monumentalness of that moment, and
I just really remember shooting that and feeling so much
joy on that.
Speaker 2 (44:26):
Rooftop with you.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
I had to go back. It's weird to go back
to London. We did shows out of London, full shows
out of London that were incredible. We had experiences around London,
to shooting different stories around that was incredible. That we
served both shows. That was a special time and look,
I want to make sure we say this well, I
(44:48):
don't know the anchor of Current DeMarco. Yes, I don't
know him well. I think i've met him before. I
don't know him well, but Eva with someone we have
known for a long time and just absolute and we
know how good she is and capable she is and kind,
all of.
Speaker 2 (45:04):
This absolutely kind, kind, as good as they come.
Speaker 1 (45:07):
We're absolutely rooting. This is not a we're making no comparisons.
They were put into a situation they didn't expect to
be put into with that show. So this this is
not a matter of us comparison, making comparison or we're better,
we can do it better. It's just a matter of
we did. We were there, and we're able to establish
(45:27):
that thing in a different way, and now they're in
different times and they're not doing as much trial, they're
not going live everywhere.
Speaker 2 (45:33):
That Yeah, I think it's important to point out too,
we don't know. That's the thing. We don't know what
would have happened, you know, dud We have no idea. Immediately,
we have no idea.
Speaker 1 (45:45):
Oh yeah, very next month we could have taken a
note that.
Speaker 3 (45:48):
The what ifs are gone, all stretches of the spectrum,
like who knows what would have happened or could have happened,
and that is such a The industry changes from month
to month and certainly from year to years, so who
knows what we would have been up against.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
But I loved it. It's true, So it's I couldn't
believe my reaction either genuine reaction to hear him say
over the phone that what had happened to GMA three
It was devastating. So we continue to root for them.
Our hearts go out to everybody that loses the job
(46:26):
over there, and we're rooting for him to come back
in a major way.
Speaker 3 (46:32):
Maybe this new restructuring will be exactly the lifeline that
they needed to really start growing and building back again,
and we certainly hope that's the case for everybody.
Speaker 1 (46:43):
And here's the lie. I guess we've heard these before,
but the line rethinking the way we work to future
proof our team regrettably includes reductions to our extraordinary staff.
That was the line from the statement may from the
ABC News president. And you hear that, Yeah, you understand it.
But when you're on the way out the door, that's tough.
(47:04):
That's tough. And look, you and I have been to
people on the way out the door for very different reasons.
But we have and it seems like nobody leaves that.
Who told us that nobody leaves? Obviously? Pretty?
Speaker 3 (47:15):
Yeah, I'm oh, I remember who told us that someone
who wants worked there?
Speaker 1 (47:21):
Who would know? Okay, you just can't get out of there?
Pretty Oh my goodness. So to our folks there, love you,
still rooting for you, and I guess the industry is changing.
I mean, go through the names. This is this is
the sign right, how much the industry is changed.
Speaker 3 (47:40):
To copy, next, next, Norah, O'Donnell.
Speaker 1 (47:45):
Yep, And we got a few more for you here
as well. Probably, But there's going to be more of
these names because the industry can't support the contracts. We've
been told this for several years. So these big, big,
top dollar talent you are going to see start to go.
Speaker 3 (48:01):
By the way, it's hard to justify twenty million dollar
plus contracts with these declining numbers, declining ratings, declining revenue.
Speaker 2 (48:09):
Something has to give.
Speaker 1 (48:10):
So was the result going to be cheaper, not as
well known, and maybe not as talented talent?
Speaker 2 (48:17):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (48:17):
Is that going to work?
Speaker 2 (48:18):
Who knows?
Speaker 3 (48:19):
I mean, it's it's a whole new world and a
whole new landscape with so many competing news sources.
Speaker 1 (48:26):
Well, Robes, I am very happy to still be sitting
next to you.
Speaker 2 (48:31):
Yeah, we got our podcast.
Speaker 1 (48:32):
So folks can see. She is still to this day
sitting to my left, just as if we were on
television right now. But folks, we always appreciate you listening
to us. For now, I'm GJ and I'm Amy.
Speaker 2 (48:42):
Have a great day, everybody,
Hosts And Creators
Amy Robach
T.J. Holmes
Popular Podcasts
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy And Charlamagne Tha God!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Decisions, Decisions
Welcome to "Decisions, Decisions," the podcast where boundaries are pushed, and conversations get candid! Join your favorite hosts, Mandii B and WeezyWTF, as they dive deep into the world of non-traditional relationships and explore the often-taboo topics surrounding dating, sex, and love. Every Monday, Mandii and Weezy invite you to unlearn the outdated narratives dictated by traditional patriarchal norms. With a blend of humor, vulnerability, and authenticity, they share their personal journeys navigating their 30s, tackling the complexities of modern relationships, and engaging in thought-provoking discussions that challenge societal expectations. From groundbreaking interviews with diverse guests to relatable stories that resonate with your experiences, "Decisions, Decisions" is your go-to source for open dialogue about what it truly means to love and connect in today's world. Get ready to reshape your understanding of relationships and embrace the freedom of authentic connections—tune in and join the conversation!