June 27, 2024 • 63 mins
It's Kevin from The Office chatting with Kevin from Glee!
While there was never an official crossover between the two hit shows, there was a strong connection! Before Glee, Kevin played the infamous 'Pizza by Alfredo' delivery kid held hostage by Michael Scott, and there was a whole episode where all The Office characters got together for a "Glee" viewing party!
This "office" party is just getting started as actor, podcast host, and New York Times best-selling author Brian Baumgartner joins Jenna and Kevin to share stories about his time on The Office, including the audition process, the chemistry on the set, initially reading for the role of Stanley, behind-the-scenes scoop about Kevin Malone's band, and a story he has never told before involving John Mayer! It's water cooler chat worthy!
Plus, just in time for the 4th of July holiday, Brian talks about his new cookbook, "Seriously Good Barbecue Cookbook," available for purchase now!
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
And That's what you Really missed with Jenna.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
And Kevin an iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
Welcome to and That's what You Really miss Podcast. Today
we have an actor a friend from another hit show
and it's a very meta thing where our worlds have
collided multiple times. Kevin, you were on the Office as
the pizza.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Guy, that's right, and then there was an episode of
Glee featured in an Office episode, so a very weird
meta crossover. But that's what makes The Office the incredible
show that it is because they're down to do that.
And today we have Brian Bob Gardner from the Office,
who played even weirder Kevin. So there's a lot of
(00:53):
strange ties we have all together and.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
He's just like the best storyteller ever, so.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Oh my god, the best We go on off the rails.
We just talked about whatever, which is great. And he
has a new cookbook out which we also talk about,
which is going to make you starving. It made Kevin starving,
made me starving. I have to go eat now. But
this from the Office, Brian bomb Gardner. Hello, it's so
(01:19):
good to see you. Thanks for coming on to our
show this time.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Welcome.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
It's my pleasure to be here. How are you guys?
Speaker 3 (01:26):
Good? Thank you so good to see you. Well, welcome
to the show. We're happy, We're so excited to have you.
We want to talk about all things office in Glee
and Glee office and your cook and your cookbook. I mean,
I just want to know how you got your start
in acting, since you got to hear about us and
we're starting now.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Now, hold on a second, I do want to ask
a question. I want to I'm taking over this interview. Great,
we discussed Glee on the office. Yes, did you ever
discuss the office on Glee?
Speaker 3 (02:01):
I don't think so.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Mm hmm. Did you not want ratings?
Speaker 3 (02:06):
We definitely wanted.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
We definitely needed them after the first couple of season.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
You know, that would have cost us, you know, and
we already cost a lot.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
I don't know. Did we pay you to mention you? No?
Speaker 3 (02:21):
No, no, But on your episode, our producer told us
the Glee episode we were one of your most expensive
episodes the viewing party because you had to pay for
all the rights to use the Glee clips and things.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
That's what I was wondering. We had we had to
we had to pay, Yes, we.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Had to pay. Yes, you had to pay for the rights.
You had to pay the actors, you had to pay music.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Yeah. Do you know I heard a story. God, I've
never told I've been I talked all the time, and
I have never told this. I believe this is true.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
That's exactly how we want a story to start.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Let me, this is my recollection, okay. Was that there
was an episode of the Office and we wanted to
use John Mayer's song My Body is a Wonderland. Yeah right, okay,
I've gotten the first part right. And someone I'm not
even gonna mention who someone was friends or friendly with John.
(03:25):
John said no. John said no because he was afraid
that it was we were going to make fun of him, right,
And we explained, I guess pitched what the thing was,
and he let us use it for free.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Interesting.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Yeah, see, when you're the one that owns the thing, right,
then you can do that, right, you know. Uncle Rupert
Murdoch was never going to allow that.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
To happen, Uncle Rupy.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Uncle Rupy was like, show me those coins.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Uncle Ruby, didn't I have? Oh my god, now this
I have not this I have not told because this
happened yesterday. And Brett, if you're listening if you're a
Glee fan, if you're a fan of these guys and
you're listening, I guess try me back. My phone rang yesterday. Now,
I don't ever, Jenna, I have your information in my
phone from like ninety seven years ago. I have ever
(04:23):
deleted any information. That's just the thing. I'm like, well,
maybe I'll need to talk to yes exactly, fifth grade teacher.
My phone rang yesterday and it said Brett Dash Steve Miller.
Now at the time, don't know if this is true
or not. This has not been told. Brett was the
(04:46):
manager of the Steve Miller band. Okay, Kevin's band in
the Office was scripted to be a Steve Miller tribute
band jo Hokers, and he said no, or said it's
nine hundred million dollars or what actual it was said?
(05:09):
It was no. So the very first time that Kevin's
band appears in the in the show we had shot it.
I played the drums to the very first time. I
think it was sent to Jim and Pam as like
a tryout, I want to play your wedding or no, no, no, no, sorry,
(05:32):
Pam and Roy, Pam and Roy, Pam and Roy. But
Pam and Jim were reviewing it. That's a weird deal.
That's another day. It was me playing Jokers and Tokers
and they had edited over me singing a police song.
Don't remember which one it was because it got changed
to scrant Nicity a police cover band because Steve Miller
said no. I then met Brett at a Steve Miller
(05:55):
concert told him the story and he was like, what
the fuck what are you talking about? I never heard
this is his manager. I've never heard this. It has
to be And I'm like, dude, it's this is I mean,
we're now in season four, it's done. It is now
a police cover band. He called me yesterday. I don't
know if it was a butt dial. I guess he
(06:16):
doesn't delete.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
His numbers him right speaker.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
He didn't leave a message. I have no idea why
he was calling. And I meant to google, like Steve
Miller in Los Angeles this week, kid just see if
he was like wanting to get a beer or something.
I don't know, but that is and wants a new
book a book, yes, new book? All right? Sorry, that
(06:43):
was story Time with Brian. It's a new segment.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
But you know, I just think it shows like those
things happened with like those weird things would happen all
the time, and you forget because they happened every single day.
Where those weird things where you're like going up against
the Steve Miller band and then you lose the rights
to it and you move on to the next day whatever,
you forget about it. And I think people, it's so
(07:07):
great to be able to like reach into the recesses
of your mind and bring those things up, because we
would get so desensitized to those things happening, say another
day at the office.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
Our artists said no, another artist said no, another order said.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
No, yeah, or it's never you know, I never found
out like is it no, or is it like again
ten million dollars, like ten million dollars or whatever. So
we paid you. Interesting apparently that.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
We just found that out about ten minutes ago, because
apparently how it goes is they wanted to use a
really current episode of Glee, but Fox said you can't
air unaired stock stuff. Yet, you can't use that, and
so they had to use an older episode and for
any people they showed in the clip, they had to
(07:59):
pay them for it.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Guys got checks.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Well, I don't know if.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
We were in it.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
Whoever was shown in it got a check.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Of course they did. I never thought about that. Yeah,
damn it, you guys couldn't throw me in.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
I got check from the office exactly.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
We should have just thrown you in a clip.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Here's a I really wanted to be brought back somehow
on the office during that whole period, because there was
some weird meta thing happening. I was like, look, you should.
We kept running into each other at Emmy's parties. It's like,
how like, hey, mindy write me back into this, Like,
come on, you hired me the first time. The boy
(08:41):
was very popular.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
I have to say, sometimes you recognize, like we be
together and Kevin would get recognized for the office and
I'd be standing right next to him and like they
wouldn't mention me at all.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
It's almost a different it's a different demographic.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Yeah it is.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Yeah. It happens at like straight places, a brewery, sports bar. Yes,
I was leaving a restaurant last year. I was at
(09:19):
BJ's Classic VJs. The yeah, this guy several tables over
yells across. I loved you in the office, and I
was so shocked. It was like the Office. It's like,
oh god, because yeah, it doesn't happen like quite as
much as Glee, but every time I does, like yes,
(09:40):
I did one episode.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
Still, like demographic was so varied, especially on tour, like
we got to go on a world tour. We got
to see the demo and it was like, I mean,
from child to senior citizen, it really ran again. But
like was your audience more specific or did you guys
feel like the same kind of it was a phenomenon,
so everybody was watching.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
I mean, well, I mean I think we've talked about
this a little bit before, but I mean our thing
was and I mean prepare for like standard stock answer,
but like actually true, like we were we were a
big hit on the NBC when we were gigantic, but
we weren't. But we weren't friends, we weren't Seinfeld. Yeah, yeah,
(10:31):
even cheers like we were. It was always sort of
perceived as being like Culty different if you know, you know,
kind of a thing until we the last five years.
Then it like I I say, I think we're the
first show in the history of television that literally got
(10:54):
bigger years after it was on And now It's like
I haven't seen the syllabuses at junior high and high schools,
but it seems like it's required viewing now, like everybody
does for sure. But I was gonna ask you guys
if you do this because you talked about demographic, which
(11:16):
never really occurred to me about Glee. But I envisioned
myself when I walk into a BJS, for example, as
one does, as one does, as one does as one
sorry BJS, as one hasn't in probably fifteen years. But
when I would, my eyes are like the old Terminator movies. Yes,
(11:40):
where I walk in and I'm like threat threat threat
threat threats.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Okay, back to the office. I want to know if
Kevin was on Glee, if your character was on our show.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
What would he sing? Well, I guess a police song, Miller,
I guess, I guess rock Sanne.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
We know the police, clear we did.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
The police too are a good one.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
The so, by the way, this is but I know
you have a lot of fans who are musically inclined.
This is how it was explained to me. I don't
sing clearly, very very well, but I was explained to
me this is the nerdiest writer's room joke of all time. Okay,
(12:49):
here's how it was explained to me. If you guys
want to edit or explain it, better please do. The
police has a beat that is the drum beat. However,
the singing the vocals are lie on a different beat
(13:12):
than the drum beat. So Kevin being the lead singer
and drummer of a police cover band means he is
a musical savant. That was I was there once they
settled on the police. That is what they settled on.
(13:33):
That they were making. That the joke that was never
explained or never known. But this is how it was
explained to me. Because I was like, this does rock
me playing rocks? They're like, yeah, it's impossible to do that,
and I'm like, what do you what do you mean that?
Speaker 3 (13:47):
Uh?
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Riker's from joke. That is why we settled on me
being a drummer lead singer of love.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
That's very funny.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
I really like that. Okay, good, Okay good.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
I also don't play the drum. Don't know. If you
guys are aware, and people consistently come up and talk
to me about you know, they'll start saying anything drum
related and I have no clue what they're talking about
but another story, this story time, I said, so I did,
(14:23):
as Jen at least knows I play golf. I play
a lot of golf. And I played in Alice Cooper's
who was a big golfer charity golf event in Arizona.
And I got picked up from the airport by someone
with his in his foundation. We're driving back. I will
never forget this moment. And he said, I'd never done
(14:44):
this event before, and I'd never met Alice personally. He said, okay,
so you know tonight really low stress. I wish I
could remember who they are because you guys would know.
But I know, like Tommy Thayer from Kisses There, you know,
big Eagles guy, guy who wrote Hotel California, Alice Cooper
(15:11):
obviously in all these musicians, uh Adrian Young from No Doubt,
and they had sort of assembled an all star band
and they were going to like play a concert before
golfing the next day. And he goes, so, no pressure, Alice.
The last song he wants to sing is schools Out
for Summer. So before right before that song, if you'll
come up and you'll play the drums, oh on schools
(15:32):
Out for Summer. You know, everyone's gonna come up and
do a part, and I go, I'm like in the
backseat in the car like a mini van, and I'm like,
I don't play the drums. And all I can think
is Alice Cooper, like, let's bite the head off a rat, like,
let's like destroy something that I'm going to make him
(15:53):
mad before I've ever met him. And I'm like and
they're like, no, no, no, seriously, it's it's fine. It's like
and I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, for real, I
cannot do this. This is not this is not something
that I can accomplish. And by the end it was
me playing drums on the show. But it was but
(16:15):
it went well. The first one was a no was
there was a there was a curtain and there was
a drummer right behind me, and I was faking. I
had pads on the drums. I was. You weren't hearing
anything that I was doing. Eventually I was. But this
would be like four days of rehearsals to get the
basic moves down for a song, like we're doing this
(16:37):
song for these four songs. Yeah, and so that would
be like twelve days of me.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Rehearsal you're not whipping up a song with Alice Cooper
and all these like rock legends.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
I can't know. And today today even a song I
played on that, no Chance, no Chance, no.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Chance, funny yeah, memory, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
Exactly, Kevin, you know something about that. People have already
seen you play the bass though, right. I already played
the bass.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
On that and the guitar and the bass the first
season locally, and then luckily at some point they gave
that up because it's like I, first of all, do
not know how to do that, and then I'd spend
so much time. No, yeah, I had taken lessons growing up.
It never stuck that no, but no, no, no no,
I was like you when I'm like, I took lessons
(17:27):
growing up. I went for like two weeks and learned
two chords type of thing. When I was like ten,
I have zero ability to play the guitar, and yeah,
they had me do it and the pilot I did.
Don't stop believing. And all I and poor guy who
was teaching me to or he was like an excellent
and incredible guitar player, and he looked like he had
(17:52):
never taught someone before and was like really confused about
what was going on because I was like, I don't
actually need to know how to play. This guy, he told,
because he wanted me to like play. I'm like, no, no,
doesn't have to be like that good. I just need
to look like it.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Yeah, so they did.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
Your music live for this band. You shot that live
me your music because like if somebody's playing behind you,
they're gloring sound.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Yeah, they were a recording sound. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Never went And in fact, I will say this of
all of the because I ended up doing a bunch
of songs actually by the end all told, I mean,
I don't know, you know, there were a couple iterations
of the band that happened. I mean, eventually I started
playing with Ed Helms and Craig Robinson, who if you
know either of them, they are musical geniuses. And that's
(18:44):
an exaggeration, both of them. Oh wow, yeah, play everything
and like he is a can harmonize like a motherfucker
is singing. Yeah, but I mean like he's playing in
concerts on the banjo, which is not an easy instrument,
and he can play everything. Craig, if you hum him
(19:05):
a tune of a song he's never heard before, he
can start playing it on the piano. This is not
a joke. Greg Craig Robinson like, so I'm like, hey, guys,
when are we gonna I'm like, I'm like a nerdy
no no pun intended, the nerdy high school kid, like, hey, guys,
when don't we get to practice? And they're like, yeah, yeah,
we got it, And I'm like, no, I don't have it. Actually,
(19:28):
I don't have it at all.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
It's so unfair being around people like that.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Yeah, no, I know, but yeah, I mean, look, I
don't have to do it anymore. I don't have to
sing anymore.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
You never know.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
I I talk sing with the best of them. I
can carry a tune, but I can't like sing sing.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
Yeah yeah, yeah, neither can It's okay.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
We never had to do it live, so never you
never had to do it lot, Yes we did.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
We recorded a handful of seven hundred songs, a handful live.
Seven I recorded maybe three of my songs live, but
that's because there was acting involved, so like the sound
was important.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
I didn't want in the pilot and that was it.
They go, oh, he needs some help, so we're not
going to do that again.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
The only the only one that I did not out
of all of mine was because Steve Miller said no,
I sang the Steve Miller Live and then they brought
me in they because that was early too, they brought
me in, Yeah, and I recorded whatever we sang for
that I can't even remember.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
What it was, and they said no.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
When we came on your show, we talked about how
we got into all of this miss because obviously these
shows were life changing for all of us here, and
your show is life changing for me in a number
of ways as well. But how did how did all
of that happen? Was it just the normal audition?
Speaker 1 (21:11):
Yeah? So look, I I mean, I think the thing
that you know, and as I've talked to you guys,
as I have, you know, talked to someone's we're like
over two hundred guests. Now, I feel like I'm I
can say that I'm unique in the sense that I
truly never thought about film and television, Like I really didn't.
(21:41):
And it wasn't like an aspirational thing like I can't
ever do that. I'm from Georgia and how could that
ever happen? It wasn't that. It just truly, and I
know this sounds dumb, it just wasn't a thought I
just I didn't. I did it like, oh, that's that's
what I want to do. So I did a theater
(22:03):
as as I call it an activity, right, like, I'm
good at this. I'm going to do this for a while.
And then I went to this program at Northwestern University
between my junior and senior year. It's called the Something,
but they call them the Chair Cherub Program. And it's
(22:24):
only one summer between junior and senior year of high school.
And you go and it's I don't know, six eight
weeks and you're there at Northwestern University. So for me,
this is like, okay, wait, I'm a high school student.
Now I'm in a dorm. I'm getting independence for the
first time. Great time to be in Chicago in the summer. Yeah.
(22:46):
But I suddenly it was like my brain was opened
and I was like, oh, oh, this is like creating
a character and actions and objectives. Oh, it's not just
about having good instincts and being loud. It's oh I Oh,
I like this. And it was sort of in and
(23:07):
around there that I was like, Okay, this is what
I want to do. And I went to college for it.
I went to SMU and Dallas conservatory training program there
and and then started doing theater and truly thought that's
what my life was like. And I was doing big houses,
regional theater houses, the Guthrie and Berkeley rep and uh,
(23:30):
you know, so forth and so on around the country
and some of New York and and then it was
it was just an idea. Theater is hard one. It's
one of earlier and you have eight shows a week,
you have Mondays off, no one has it off. It's
very hard. It's just a very difficult life. And I
(23:51):
had had a weird friend, uh, not a weird friend.
I had had a a weird trip with a friend
that sounds weird too, a friend who was in LA
and I visited and kind of oddly, I mean, being
from the East Coast, I say oddly fell in love
(24:13):
with it. Like I was like, oh this is nice.
Like there's the weather is not like it. It can
be a very very seductive place. You catch it the
right week and you know that sun sun is shining.
And I remember my friend lived around Westwood and Westwood
(24:37):
and there was this magical place called the Coffee Bean
and Tea Leaf and you can sit outside with the
palm trees when the wind blowing and the Westwood Hills
and you see La.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Yeah, it's so beautiful over there.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
And so I eventually was like, Okay, you know, I'm
going to I'm gonna I'm gonna come out to l A.
I'm gonna give this thing a try. And there was
it was part of why, you know, when I left college,
I was I knew for myself and I bully, you
can make fun of this about me, but I knew
(25:14):
even then, like sleeping on someone's sofa in a studio
apartment in New York or l A, like that's not
really me, like that, that's not really And so you know,
I had moved to Minneapolis where you could make a
living and I could have, you know, a place, and
that's sort of where I started professionally in theater and
(25:36):
then started traveling around from there. But I didn't, like,
you know, it wasn't for me, you know, the weather.
I wasn't from that area. I had no sort of
uh family connection there, not that I did in LA either,
but I just.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Like the weather does make a big differ, Like to
do you just tons of like nature things. It's when
you're lonely and desperate for work.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Yeah, and my and my and my friends. You know,
I have friends who are still back in Minnesota. And
I'm like, do you realize, because you you start to
not realize when you're there how much work it is
to just be like, oh, I need to go get
the mail. Let me put on snow pants and a
jacket and gloves to walk down my driveway like this
(26:27):
is like it's that and then come inside and shake
off the snow and take it off and yeah, warm
up from the journey. Not that I had a long driveway.
It's just an example. But I so I came to LA,
and you know, and I had been working for a
time doing this and came to oh so similarly, I
(26:51):
knew I was not I was not capable of like
living on someone's sofa. For me, I thought the coming
out and I don't know if you guys did I,
but coming out to LA for a pilot season that
didn't feel real to me either. Like again, for me,
(27:12):
I was like I'm either there or I'm not. And
I so when I was ready, I moved, I moved,
I packed up the the you know. Yeah, it was
like and I I think I had said I'm going
to give it a year because I was turned down
theater work. That was the other thing. It took me
(27:33):
a couple of years after I had decided, because I
was I was getting work, and I was like, how
can I how can I say no? And so I
said a year. But I think really even ahead, I
was like, I'm gonna, you know, a couple of years,
I can, I can do this. And then a couple
of months later I met the folks on the office
(27:53):
and so once I was out it, it did happen
very quickly. But but I will say is that, you know,
when I get asked about like advice for young actors
or whatever, for me, I think the biggest thing. I
think the only reason that it happened for me. Then
I mean that there there's obviously a lot of factors
(28:15):
and timing and luck and you know, understanding characters and
so forth. But for me, I've joked like I was
the poorest person that had the highest subscription of at
the time TiVo that existed. I watched everything, and it's
always confusing to me, actors especially, and you get it
(28:37):
a lot in the theater, right, which is like I
don't watch television, right, and I'm like why, asshole, Like,
if you're wanting to work in that in that medium,
you need to understand what's going on right and what's
you know what stylistically these shows. If you get an
audition for something and you have no idea stylistically what
(28:58):
the world is that's being created, like you're giving yourself
a disservice. So I had done that and I found
because of the British version of The Office the Office,
and I was like, oh, well this I get like,
this is this is me? And so yeah, I mean
my rep at the time I said to them that
(29:20):
this is the show, and I mean, looking back at
it now, the other thing is I was so young
and inexperienced that I did things at the time or
expected things at the time which were so stupid, Like
it's so like, oh, of course this is the show
I should be on, right and now when I say that,
and now people know who I am and I say
(29:41):
that and they're like, what are you talking about? I
don't care somebody else like what do you?
Speaker 2 (29:47):
A bit of delusion can really go a long way, though, because.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
I think it's so valuable.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Yeah, you do need to be that as someone who
you moved here from Minnesota, turning down actual work where
you knew that there was going to be a check
in your bank. Like you have to have the little
delusion to be like one, I'm going to go out
there because I can do this and like, oh this show, Yes,
this is the one. I gotta do it because you
the only person that believes in you were propelling you forward?
(30:16):
Is you, Like you're the only one who really cares, right,
and so like if you're not out there like advocating
for yourself and just a little bit of the drag
delusion of it all, right, then you know there's a
there's a line to walk there. But just a little
bit really helps.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
We lost jaded assholes now it's very hard to find sometimes.
I'm not gonna lie, but I do believe that you
need it.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Worry, Jenna, I have your delusion for you whenever.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
Yeah, you do. And I know you really do need
a little bit of the magical thinking. It's very important.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
How that's crazy that happened so quickly for you, that's amazing. Yeah,
like when you how was it walking on? So like
the Allison Jones cat you first of all that, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
Well you know who who? Who? I first met with
because again I was a totally unknown person from Minnesota.
First person I read with was Phillip Smith at Allison
Jones because she Phillis was casting associate for Alison Jones,
and so I went into a small office. M hm,
(31:28):
ye met her and then met Allison. But yeah, she
was the first person I met in I mean in
in that well on that show. I mean, yeah there
was a part of that show. I mean she was
casting it at the time, and then yeah, it was
her reading with me and others that everyone wants to
(31:49):
take credit for it now, but I at least I
believe it is possible. Ken Kuoppas, the director, was like,
she needs to be in the show, and so yeah,
that's how Phillis got cast.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
Wow, how many auditions do you have to do for it?
Speaker 1 (32:03):
Honestly, I I I had that pre read. I don't
remember if I No one's ever asked me that I
have thought about it when other people have been have that,
I've asked other people. I think I did that pre read.
I don't remember, and I remember meeting Allison. I don't
(32:23):
remember if I read with her again that day, but
I only went in once.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
You've got to be Shop after that.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
After that, no, I went in. I went in once,
and that's when I met you know, Greg Daniels, Ben Silverman,
Ken Kwappas everyone, Terry Weinberg, everybody from Revellie. I mean
it was like once thirty people. Yeah, and I read
you guys know you guys know this. I don't want
(32:52):
to repeat stories. Why. I was auditioning for Stanley.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
That's right, right, and then read.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
As Kevin.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
Yeah, in the in the bigger audition you read for Kevin.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
I read for I read for Stanley as though I
were Kevin Ken and took a gamble again. What I
have done that now? No, I mean now, I probably
would have said, no, this other part is better for me,
and they may have said, okay, goodbye. But now at
the time I read that, and Allison chased after me,
(33:27):
so so I read. I read that. The second day
that I went there, I read for Stanley. I went
in reading for Stanley, and then they ran after me
and had me come back and read for Kevin or
you know, like like the same day, like I waited around. Yeah,
crazy read for Kevin. And that's it.
Speaker 3 (33:47):
It was really bold. That's really a bold choice to make.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
I was so sure, like I just got that character.
I just I just knew Yeah, I just saw it.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
Yep, yeah and yeah, I mean you obviously feel that
though from the other side of the table like they did,
like they yeah they got it, Yeah, yeah they did.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
I mean to their credit obviously I could have a
ton of credit, but.
Speaker 3 (34:14):
I like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
It's one of those things too, where it's like everyone's
just got to be lined up that day. Everyone showed
up with the right attitude. They saw you come in there,
and they're like, oh, yes, get that joke. Yes, yeah,
that is crazy. I love Alison Jones because she also
would do things like that, yes, like I feel like
there are I have not been in a lot with
(34:39):
a lot of casting directors who would try different things.
Have you come back in immediately and like try this instead.
She was like the most malleable casting director, like creative
right would sit there and be like what about this?
What about that? And a lot of people out there.
Anytime I go into that office, I'd see different people.
(35:01):
Like normally, you know, you start like the circuit, you
see the same people they're always up against. It was
always different people in there.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
Well you know, the other thing that she did she
did was and well I shouldn't say her. I I'm
sure it was partly, uh Greg Daniels, So I don't.
I don't want to give credit to the wrong person here.
But they there was no test on the show because
what they what And so maybe this is Greg. I'm sorry,
(35:31):
this is just literally my memory. But she was a
part of it. And because we're talking about her, they
said the collective they said standing this show is not
about standing up, the opposite of Glee, right, This is
not about standing up in front of a bunch of
executives testing for studio and network executives, like trying to
(35:54):
make people laugh, you know, like that. It was all
about like a subtle look to the camera. So they
set it up on the office set and filmed intimately
and interactions between people and allowed that camera to be
a character, you know, because it was the documentary. Allowed
that camera be a character. They filmed that and I think,
(36:16):
I mean, I'm sure they had to give three choices
or whatever, but I but if they're editing it, they
can adjusted how they wanted to and then sent the
choices to there. So there was not like.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
A film some sort of like their version of like whatever.
That was like a screen.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
Test essentially, like a screen test. Yeah, it was like
a screen test as opposed to what it typically is
for anybody listening that you don't know, like a network
test where you it's like a theater class, right where
two people are reading a scene together. That is a test.
Is a network test. You walk into a room and
(36:54):
you're like, Hi, this is Brian and he is reading
for Kevin. And then you have a reader and you're
just up on stage, or sometimes there's two of you
together reading and Greg. I'm sure it was Greg, but
Greg and Allison were like we no, we can't do
this show like that. Ye tell you who you want?
Speaker 3 (37:14):
Smart, very smart. What was it like shooting the pilot,
like shooting the first like initial episodes before anybody saw it.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
Yeah, so the first one. And I found this out
when I you know, when I when I when I
wrote the sort of the book about the story that
they that Greg kept the pilot essentially a shot for
not shot for shot, but essentially the same Americanized version
(37:47):
of the British pilot. But the reason is fascinating, the
reason that he did that, because I was like, why
would you do that, like, why didn't you want to
put your stand on it? You know whatever. There were
things that didn't work, and he said it had become
such a success that he felt like his job on
the pilot was to create the world of dunder Mifflin
(38:10):
in the pilot because he felt like because they were
doing the same script and it had been such a success,
he wasn't going to get noted to death about the script.
That's why he chose that, because he was like, what
you are you? How can you how can you argue
with this? And so that's how he sort of got
it passed through. And then we were only given five
(38:33):
more episodes that first year, so it was a total
of six, and you know, it was very early and
you know, Steve's character, Michael Scott, was very mean, and
the audience response was, I mean, the fact that we
were able to come back for a season two is great.
The truth is, there are some of our best episodes,
(38:54):
but diversity Day, sexual harassment, basketball episode. You know, but
I remember thinking, because you know, at the time, we
had no laugh track. It was the camera was moving
around and there were all these things that were different.
We all knew there was sort of an uphill battle
(39:15):
that like, would people give it a chance? But I
knew that if they did, what was happening was something
special because partly about on our very second episode, which
was Diversity Day, we were talking about real issues in
comedy that hadn't happened since all in the family. There
(39:38):
was like twenty to thirty years where nobody would talk
about issues in comedy, had needed just funny, don't make
a don't talk about race, don't talk about sexuality, don't
talk about you know, and suddenly we're doing episodes like
Diversity Day, yay, witch Hunt, sexual harassment, healthcare, you know,
(40:02):
all of those things which I was like, oh, we
talk about that in comedy, We'll leave that to the dramas.
But I knew it was it was. It was smart
and and and important and if if people gave us
a chance, I knew we were doing something cool.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
There was something about did you guys always film on
the same stage from the very beginning?
Speaker 1 (40:25):
You moved? We moved, Yeah, we the first six episodes.
I think this is what it was called Culvert Studios.
It was very bizarre space off of Losienega like South,
(40:46):
and there was there was a single sound stage and
upstairs was production offices and so still I assume our
office of dunder Mifflin was the production offices at that
Culver studio. Wow, that's what it was.
Speaker 3 (41:06):
Crazy.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
So we shot in their office. The soundstage was like
where we ate lunch. Like there was nothing on the soundstage.
I don't shot money anything on the sound stage. Wow.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
I feel like that intimacy of like all of you
working together sort of what feels like the little engine
that could, or like you're doing these things that like
might be controversial. People in America may get it or
they may not get it. Yeah, And because of that,
it's one of those things that you feel watching all
of you together, or like was there sort of like
this instant sort of familial bond or chemistry, And if
(41:49):
there was, like was it because of you all believed
in the show so much?
Speaker 1 (41:53):
I think there was that. I think there was also
I think there I think there were three or four things.
I think I think there was that there was true
belief in the show. Two was nobody was known or
a star at all at the time. I mean, we've
going into season two. Steve Carell became like the biggest
the comedy movie star on the planet, but he was
(42:13):
not before nothing. So there were there was that, and
there was a lot of people who, you know, something
like this she would have to tell you, but like
Malaura Harden, who played jan had been on like fourteen
pilots and none had ever gone. You know. There was
a lot of like stories like that. And then I
(42:36):
think that I don't think this was I mean, I
give Alison Jones credit for everything. I don't think that
this was necessarily intentional, But I think that also there
were two things. There was the collection of us happened
to have a great diversity in terms of experience, and
what I mean by that is, like, just to name
(42:57):
a few, like Rain Wilson and myself, we were straight
theater people who had like Coroll, Angela Kenzie, Oscar Nuniez,
improv people, BJ Novak, Craig Robinson, stand up you know, comedians,
and so we had that whole base. So everybody's kind
(43:18):
of learning from each other or like has a different
sort of perspective on what we're doingfind with the fact
that the way the show was shot in by and large,
especially early one set closed walls. We were all there
all the time because the camera was moving around. So
(43:40):
we were sixty seventy hours a week and we were
all there and so we just you know, it's like
a sports analogy of something like you know, if you're
there and you practice and you're stuck together and you're
traveling together, eventually you know exactly where everybody wants the ball,
where they want the ball delivered. How you know, oh,
(44:02):
if I do this, this is going to make this
is going to give this person this joke because that's
what they and that sort of stuff. You can't I mean,
you can't, you can't teach. I know that's like so cliche,
but it was just about that, which I mean, that's
what made us expensive, right, I mean, we're there's there's
there's there, there is a number one on the call sheet,
(44:24):
of course, but there's kind of we're all there just.
Speaker 3 (44:27):
As much, totally totally, and.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
So that was I think that was a big part
of it.
Speaker 2 (44:34):
How quickly once things started airing or because you sort
of had the reverse effect of like what you said
of normal shows, where you just kept getting bigger, where
for us, we came out the gates pretty big, and
we got really big by the second season, and then
you know, the people started to get over us. Yeah,
for you guys, because you just moved out here, you
(44:56):
shoot this pilot, you guys get six episodes hoping for
season two. You do get a season two, six episodes
for season two, which is nuts, Like, we're not really
sure about this, but we like it, so we'll keep going.
I mean, how much had your life changed or did it,
(45:16):
because in those days you were getting a normal network
show was twenty two episodes. That is, you're getting six, Yes,
a life changing amount of money for people. We were
all so brokenly started and you adjust accordingly, I think
to that. You know, we were there for ten months
out of the year shooting the show. You're doing season
(45:38):
one six episodes, season two six episodes, but then it's
also becoming really popular. Steve Carell's becoming a gigantic star.
Speaker 3 (45:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:45):
I mean, so season two we did six episodes and
we stopped. So let's say we started. We went back
in like July, end of July, shot through August, probably
Labor Day. We stopped and like it something like the
next week, our first episode was going to air, but
they returned our trailers and we cleaned them out and
(46:08):
we went home and was they was sort of like,
hope we get to do some more. And by then,
forty year old virgin, we had a good lead in
this show My Name is Earl, which you talked about
peaking early. That peaked early. We were after them and
we just started picking up and then it was it
was six and they were like, okay, you can do
(46:30):
four more. Okay, you can finish the thirteen. Okay, you
can do two more. I mean it was like at
some point it was like you can do two more,
you can, but at that point we were once we
took that first break, Yeah, the show was airing and
we were shooting, and the writers started thinking about others.
So we ended up doing twenty two that year. Oh wow.
(46:52):
But we as we had started and left, like you know,
it was probably we probably came back in October or
something like that right after after you know, October, mid
October or something when we when we were given more episodes.
But you know, then Correl wins the Golden Globe. Yeah,
and by Christmas time, that Christmas episode, which was our
(47:14):
first Christmas episode, got like over ten million viewers, and
then by February we were getting more than My Name
is Earle in the ratings at a half hour time slot,
and so when it was like all at February, the
network was finally like, okay, you can finish twenty two episodes,
(47:36):
like we'll give you the rest of the order within
a week or two. They ordered twenty two for the
next year, so it was like right then it was oh, okay,
And that's when things changed. Yeah, Like that's when like, oh,
we're gonna, we're gonna, We're gonna be around for a while.
Speaker 2 (47:55):
What a crazy work environment, a trickle of episodes two more,
one more. I don't under like, how does that feel
being on the side of what were the writers prepared?
Because you were saying the writers were already thinking ahead,
but like that's crazy, like whip up ten more.
Speaker 1 (48:12):
Yeah, but but I think the writing room was small,
but it was just like the biggest all star writing staff.
And I mean that like like in terms of like
future accomplishments. I mean it's Mindy Kaling, it's bj Novak,
it's Paul Lieberstein, it's Jensilata, it's Lee Eisenberg and Jean Stepnitzky.
(48:37):
Like it's literally like now everyone like either running shows
or writing movies or like whatever, and I'm sure I'm
apologies for whoever I just missed in that short list,
but it was small, right because they'd ordered six so
I think that you know, there were maybe where they
were like six writers. I think even Paul Lieberstein was
(48:58):
not a well maybe that was the first season. So anyway,
it yeah, it was, it was, it was. It was crazy.
And then you know, so we finished by the way,
we finished those twenty two episodes that we you know,
we had just been given the you know, ability to
do them, and then went back to recharge to do
(49:22):
season three, and before we started shooting season three that
season two that happened like that we won the Emmy four. So,
I mean, this is all of it. It's just crazy,
like not looking back on it, like how did this happen?
Speaker 2 (49:35):
I feel like the theater training was probably good for
some of that too. You're just like you're just rolling
with it. You're on set, do the work.
Speaker 3 (49:42):
But adults, you guys, are like, oh maybe true, more
like maybe i'll pay my rent, Like we really kids,
you know what I mean, They're like, we're like how
does this shit work? Like we get greenlit? What does
that mean? Do we get to do more. Yay, that's fun.
But like these were all established adults at the time, Like, yeah,
sort of, I.
Speaker 1 (50:02):
Know that thirty is kind of an adul I was thirty, Wow,
Like I was young young? Yeah, so young, that's young.
Speaker 3 (50:12):
I mean was yeah, no, that's a point.
Speaker 1 (50:16):
But I can't remember exactly how much older I was
Jenno's you know, close to that.
Speaker 3 (50:22):
Okay, that's I.
Speaker 1 (50:23):
Mean, there was a group of us. I mean I
looked older, and there was like I mean, I don't
want to give anybody's age away or whatever, but well
not even age, just experience, you know, like Melaura Harden,
like she had been working since a child and had
you know, done a ton of things. Yes, you know,
(50:46):
correl with Second City and The Daily Show and stuff
like that, like you know, he was established.
Speaker 3 (50:53):
Yeah, for sure, that's fair. That's fair. No, you were young, yeah,
I mean wow, that's like some of our guys were
older when when you started. So that's yeah, okay, fair enough.
I take it back, I take it back. Okay. Before
(51:16):
we go, we have a couple questions. It's almost July fourth.
It's my favorite time of the year because there's barbecues
and you just came out with your second barbecue cookbook. Yeah,
so you're you're a barbecue connoisseur. Tell us about your
new book.
Speaker 1 (51:32):
All right, Well, first I have to ask you guys
a question, because you're in southern California. What is if
someone says to you this came up this morning, by
the way, That's why I question. If someone says, hey,
you want to come over for a barbecue, what does
that mean?
Speaker 3 (51:50):
Oh, I have a couple of friends with smokers, smokers
at their houses.
Speaker 1 (51:55):
Okay, so that would be they're going to smoke something.
Speaker 3 (52:00):
Okay, ribs, maybe hot dogs and hamburgers. That's kind of
what I'm Okay.
Speaker 2 (52:04):
Yeah, same. It depends. If I'm in California, That's what
I'm expecting. If I'm in Texas, where I'm originally from,
it's a bit of a different answer. What is text
would that answer be? That would be more of the
the smoked things someone someone definitely has a smoker, probably,
but there's also going to be like trement as well,
(52:26):
you know, like.
Speaker 1 (52:27):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (52:31):
Bread. It's a different different So.
Speaker 1 (52:34):
I'm with you. I mean, being from Georgia, that's what
I would say. Somebody told me today they were like
I'm from North this is a breast interview. I had.
Lovely lady, Absolutely, at least be nice. I'm not saying
anything mean about you. She said, what does it mean?
She said, I'm gonna ask you a personal question. If
I said, come over to my house and have a
(52:55):
barbe and have a barbecue with me, what does that mean.
I paused for a while because she said personal question.
That put my brain somewhere else. Aside from that, I said,
I said, well, like like doing a slow cooked smoking something.
She was like, oh, okay. She said, I went out
(53:17):
to California and everyone said a barbecue was Hamberg's and
hot dogs, and I was like, that's fairy. She said,
I'm from in North Carolina. If you invite me over
for a barbecue, it has to be a whole hog.
Speaker 3 (53:31):
I was like damn.
Speaker 1 (53:33):
I was like, yeah, I'm definitely that's exactly what I said. Like,
I'm in the middle. I agree, Yeah, barbecue is not
Hamburgers and hot dogs. But yeah, that's funny. So I'm
from Georgia and I, as we've talked about, I did
theater for a long time and I worked a number
(53:55):
of times with a French director and we would have
rehearsals during the day and then this is during the
rehearsal process. Rehearsal during the day, then they would take
a dinner break. Their dinner break was two and a
half hours yea. And then they would have night rehearsals damn.
And I was like, what are we doing like two
(54:15):
and a half hours, Like let's get this done.
Speaker 3 (54:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (54:18):
It was because he would go and cook. He would
go home and he would wine and he would cook,
and I mean like cook, like hyao, cook, like we're
going to make dinner. And he taught me in a
way or what it did for him, which then I
started to buy into, which was like I am doing
(54:38):
an activity that I enjoy and it is making the
work go away. So then when I returned to it,
I actually am fresh. I'm starting anew as opposed to
keep thinking about it over this period of time. And
so I started doing that a little bit. And then
when I moved to California again because of the way
(55:00):
you can do it all the time I do. I grill,
which I won't call barbecue, but I grill and Q
on the weekends and stuff. I travel a ton, but
if I'm home like four or five nights a week,
I'm I'm out at the grill. I enjoy it. It
makes my mind two things, golf and cooking specifically at
(55:20):
a grill or barbecue. Those things make my mind clear
of work stuff, and I'm able to just focus on
the activity at hand. So it is. And so I
you know, I don't know if you ever heard, but
there was an incident with me and chili a few
years ago on UH on the office there was a
(55:43):
there was a spillage that happened. So I had a
chili cookbook, and the chili cook book it was fun.
I kind of got into the culture of that, but
this was this was really me. I mean, this is
a passion of mine, something that I really enjoy. So
I've been really excited about the response to it so far.
(56:06):
There's over one hundred recipes in there.
Speaker 2 (56:09):
That's crazy that so many recipes.
Speaker 1 (56:12):
It is a lot. But part of it also is
I feel like particularly slow cooking, yes, is intimidating for
people because they're like, I'm gonna do this for six
hours and if it turns out shitty, then what do
I got? Like?
Speaker 3 (56:26):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (56:26):
Thanks? So there there is some like tips that are like, look,
let's not let this intimidate you. Let's start with this.
Let's try this for someone like me. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
I wrote it for you.
Speaker 2 (56:41):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (56:41):
Hey, seriously good barbecue cookbook.
Speaker 2 (56:44):
Oh god, I get it, go get it. It just makes
me so hungry. Do you have favorite barbecue places in Texas?
Speaker 1 (56:53):
Well? I part of the inspiration for the book actually
was I saw a show during the pandemic about Rodney Scott's.
Oddly the we we're just talking about Rodney Scott's Whole
Hog Barbecue in Charleston, South Carolina, and I drove and
I flew back into the South and I had a
long drive because I hadn't seen my parents during the
(57:15):
pandemic in like eight or nine months. And I took
a hundreds of mile detour out of my way to
go to this spot in Charleston, which was partly the
like I was thinking about doing this, this cookbook and
wanted to go there and experience his So Texas. You know,
Dallas is a little bit of a different breed there,
(57:37):
which is where I spent most of my time. I
couldn't name for you specifically. Part of the issue is
like the and I talk about this in the cookbook.
A lot of the let's just call them larger chain
barbecue places. When you leave, what they want you to
say is, isn't that sauce really great? But it's about
(58:00):
the sauce. So they take meat and they just drown
it in sauce and it's about the sauce. And that's
the other thing that I talk about in this is
like for me, biggest tip by responsibly raised meat from
responsible sustainable farms. Yes, I promise you. One it's the
(58:24):
right thing to do, and two it just tastes better.
And if you are buying high quality sourced meat, it
is going to taste better. You're going to feel better
about it. But more you just need some rubs, some spices.
You don't need to drown it in sauce. It doesn't
have to be about sauce. So that's something else we
(58:45):
talk about, all right.
Speaker 2 (58:48):
Also, not a lot of great barbecue in LA, so
it might have to make it.
Speaker 3 (58:51):
Now, there's only a handful, all right. Before we let
you go, Ryan, we usually ask at the end of
this with people who are involved with glee, what is
the feeling that glee he leaves you with? So I'm
going to ask you, what is the feeling that the
Office leaves you with.
Speaker 1 (59:09):
Overwhelming gratitude? And for me now, the greatest gift that
the Office gave me is and we were talking about
fans earlier, but the Office gave people so much comfort
(59:32):
in oftentimes difficult times. People serving in the military, people
undergoing a family crisis of one or the other, going
through a difficult medical procedure in the hospital, very sick,
and the Office brought them comfort. I like to think
in part because of what you talked about before, Kevin,
(59:55):
they could see the love and the care between the
characters that was happening and the stories that we were telling,
and that sometimes it was mean and sometimes it wasn't pc,
but there was ultimately a feeling of love. And the
last line of the show is of the Office that
was spoken, is there's beauty and ordinary things. Isn't that
(01:00:19):
kind of the point That celebration of of regular people,
if I'm kind in myself, included regular looking people who
have small victories that you deserve to be celebrated. And
that's that's what I'm I'm grateful for that message and
(01:00:40):
being a part of that and and and truly sharing.
Speaker 3 (01:00:43):
Joy with people Yeah, it feels like that absolutely resonated
with the lot of your fans, so it still does.
Speaker 2 (01:00:51):
Yeah, yeah, Brian keeps on going. Thank you so much
for being with us.
Speaker 3 (01:00:55):
Br so good to see you, and thank you for
you to see you guys.
Speaker 1 (01:00:58):
Thank you on the back, good luck, Thank.
Speaker 2 (01:01:01):
You, go get seriously good barbecue cookbook. It's out.
Speaker 3 (01:01:04):
We love you.
Speaker 1 (01:01:06):
Now, love you guys. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (01:01:10):
So time to see you soon. Yes, sounds good, isn't
you wonderful?
Speaker 3 (01:01:19):
He's the best. He's literally the best. It's so interesting
to hear there's so many similar similarities, I guess in
the way that they felt about like the chemistry and
the care and the love for the show and that
making it so special and elevating it to the point
where like even what he said about like what the
(01:01:41):
office leaves him with, like just being really special for
the fans and for just what he hopes for. I
don't know, I just felt like very similar in a
lot of ways.
Speaker 2 (01:01:54):
Very similar, and it was like, these are two shows
that couldn't be more different in a number of ways.
They're so different. But yeah, the experience on set and
the experience of how it makes the fans feel feels
very familiar and having been around them, and I've said
(01:02:15):
it before and I'll say it again, was such a
masterclass for me, obviously in acting and being on a set,
but also how to treat people on a set. They
were all so kind, so good to me, and going
into Glee, it really felt like being able to have
spent the week with them was the best training ground
(01:02:37):
I could have asked for. And you could feel that
love between them. It was palpable and just how much
they cared about what they were doing and how good
they were, and you see it in every single episode
Special Pressure. Group of people so happy that Brian came
on to talk to us. We get to go on
his show, like we said, which is an incredible show.
You should also go listen to that, Go by Brian's book,
(01:03:00):
Seriously Good Barbecue Cookbook, which is out now. And you know,
maybe go watch the office episode that I'm in called
Launch Party. You know, whatever you want, I won't force you,
but it's a good time and you get to see
seventeen year old me with highlights, So enjoy. That's a
good time.
Speaker 3 (01:03:20):
Yeah, all right, see you next time.
Speaker 2 (01:03:22):
That's what you really missed. Thanks for listening and follow
us on Instagram at and that's what you really miss pod.
Make sure to write us a review and leave us
five stars. See you next time.
And That's what you Really missed with Jenna.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
And Kevin an iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
Welcome to and That's what You Really miss Podcast. Today
we have an actor a friend from another hit show
and it's a very meta thing where our worlds have
collided multiple times. Kevin, you were on the Office as
the pizza.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Guy, that's right, and then there was an episode of
Glee featured in an Office episode, so a very weird
meta crossover. But that's what makes The Office the incredible
show that it is because they're down to do that.
And today we have Brian Bob Gardner from the Office,
who played even weirder Kevin. So there's a lot of
(00:53):
strange ties we have all together and.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
He's just like the best storyteller ever, so.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Oh my god, the best We go on off the rails.
We just talked about whatever, which is great. And he
has a new cookbook out which we also talk about,
which is going to make you starving. It made Kevin starving,
made me starving. I have to go eat now. But
this from the Office, Brian bomb Gardner. Hello, it's so
(01:19):
good to see you. Thanks for coming on to our
show this time.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Welcome.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
It's my pleasure to be here. How are you guys?
Speaker 3 (01:26):
Good? Thank you so good to see you. Well, welcome
to the show. We're happy, We're so excited to have you.
We want to talk about all things office in Glee
and Glee office and your cook and your cookbook. I mean,
I just want to know how you got your start
in acting, since you got to hear about us and
we're starting now.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Now, hold on a second, I do want to ask
a question. I want to I'm taking over this interview. Great,
we discussed Glee on the office. Yes, did you ever
discuss the office on Glee?
Speaker 3 (02:01):
I don't think so.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Mm hmm. Did you not want ratings?
Speaker 3 (02:06):
We definitely wanted.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
We definitely needed them after the first couple of season.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
You know, that would have cost us, you know, and
we already cost a lot.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
I don't know. Did we pay you to mention you? No?
Speaker 3 (02:21):
No, no, But on your episode, our producer told us
the Glee episode we were one of your most expensive
episodes the viewing party because you had to pay for
all the rights to use the Glee clips and things.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
That's what I was wondering. We had we had to
we had to pay, Yes, we.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Had to pay. Yes, you had to pay for the rights.
You had to pay the actors, you had to pay music.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Yeah. Do you know I heard a story. God, I've
never told I've been I talked all the time, and
I have never told this. I believe this is true.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
That's exactly how we want a story to start.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Let me, this is my recollection, okay. Was that there
was an episode of the Office and we wanted to
use John Mayer's song My Body is a Wonderland. Yeah right, okay,
I've gotten the first part right. And someone I'm not
even gonna mention who someone was friends or friendly with John.
(03:25):
John said no. John said no because he was afraid
that it was we were going to make fun of him, right,
And we explained, I guess pitched what the thing was,
and he let us use it for free.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Interesting.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Yeah, see, when you're the one that owns the thing, right,
then you can do that, right, you know. Uncle Rupert
Murdoch was never going to allow that.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
To happen, Uncle Rupy.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Uncle Rupy was like, show me those coins.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Uncle Ruby, didn't I have? Oh my god, now this
I have not this I have not told because this
happened yesterday. And Brett, if you're listening if you're a
Glee fan, if you're a fan of these guys and
you're listening, I guess try me back. My phone rang yesterday. Now,
I don't ever, Jenna, I have your information in my
phone from like ninety seven years ago. I have ever
(04:23):
deleted any information. That's just the thing. I'm like, well,
maybe I'll need to talk to yes exactly, fifth grade teacher.
My phone rang yesterday and it said Brett Dash Steve Miller.
Now at the time, don't know if this is true
or not. This has not been told. Brett was the
(04:46):
manager of the Steve Miller band. Okay, Kevin's band in
the Office was scripted to be a Steve Miller tribute
band jo Hokers, and he said no, or said it's
nine hundred million dollars or what actual it was said?
(05:09):
It was no. So the very first time that Kevin's
band appears in the in the show we had shot it.
I played the drums to the very first time. I
think it was sent to Jim and Pam as like
a tryout, I want to play your wedding or no, no, no, no, sorry,
(05:32):
Pam and Roy, Pam and Roy, Pam and Roy. But
Pam and Jim were reviewing it. That's a weird deal.
That's another day. It was me playing Jokers and Tokers
and they had edited over me singing a police song.
Don't remember which one it was because it got changed
to scrant Nicity a police cover band because Steve Miller
said no. I then met Brett at a Steve Miller
(05:55):
concert told him the story and he was like, what
the fuck what are you talking about? I never heard
this is his manager. I've never heard this. It has
to be And I'm like, dude, it's this is I mean,
we're now in season four, it's done. It is now
a police cover band. He called me yesterday. I don't
know if it was a butt dial. I guess he
(06:16):
doesn't delete.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
His numbers him right speaker.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
He didn't leave a message. I have no idea why
he was calling. And I meant to google, like Steve
Miller in Los Angeles this week, kid just see if
he was like wanting to get a beer or something.
I don't know, but that is and wants a new
book a book, yes, new book? All right? Sorry, that
(06:43):
was story Time with Brian. It's a new segment.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
But you know, I just think it shows like those
things happened with like those weird things would happen all
the time, and you forget because they happened every single day.
Where those weird things where you're like going up against
the Steve Miller band and then you lose the rights
to it and you move on to the next day whatever,
you forget about it. And I think people, it's so
(07:07):
great to be able to like reach into the recesses
of your mind and bring those things up, because we
would get so desensitized to those things happening, say another
day at the office.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
Our artists said no, another artist said no, another order said.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
No, yeah, or it's never you know, I never found
out like is it no, or is it like again
ten million dollars, like ten million dollars or whatever. So
we paid you. Interesting apparently that.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
We just found that out about ten minutes ago, because
apparently how it goes is they wanted to use a
really current episode of Glee, but Fox said you can't
air unaired stock stuff. Yet, you can't use that, and
so they had to use an older episode and for
any people they showed in the clip, they had to
(07:59):
pay them for it.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Guys got checks.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Well, I don't know if.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
We were in it.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
Whoever was shown in it got a check.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Of course they did. I never thought about that. Yeah,
damn it, you guys couldn't throw me in.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
I got check from the office exactly.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
We should have just thrown you in a clip.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Here's a I really wanted to be brought back somehow
on the office during that whole period, because there was
some weird meta thing happening. I was like, look, you should.
We kept running into each other at Emmy's parties. It's like,
how like, hey, mindy write me back into this, Like,
come on, you hired me the first time. The boy
(08:41):
was very popular.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
I have to say, sometimes you recognize, like we be
together and Kevin would get recognized for the office and
I'd be standing right next to him and like they
wouldn't mention me at all.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
It's almost a different it's a different demographic.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Yeah it is.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Yeah. It happens at like straight places, a brewery, sports bar. Yes,
I was leaving a restaurant last year. I was at
(09:19):
BJ's Classic VJs. The yeah, this guy several tables over
yells across. I loved you in the office, and I
was so shocked. It was like the Office. It's like,
oh god, because yeah, it doesn't happen like quite as
much as Glee, but every time I does, like yes,
(09:40):
I did one episode.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
Still, like demographic was so varied, especially on tour, like
we got to go on a world tour. We got
to see the demo and it was like, I mean,
from child to senior citizen, it really ran again. But
like was your audience more specific or did you guys
feel like the same kind of it was a phenomenon,
so everybody was watching.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
I mean, well, I mean I think we've talked about
this a little bit before, but I mean our thing
was and I mean prepare for like standard stock answer,
but like actually true, like we were we were a
big hit on the NBC when we were gigantic, but
we weren't. But we weren't friends, we weren't Seinfeld. Yeah, yeah,
(10:31):
even cheers like we were. It was always sort of
perceived as being like Culty different if you know, you know,
kind of a thing until we the last five years.
Then it like I I say, I think we're the
first show in the history of television that literally got
(10:54):
bigger years after it was on And now It's like
I haven't seen the syllabuses at junior high and high schools,
but it seems like it's required viewing now, like everybody
does for sure. But I was gonna ask you guys
if you do this because you talked about demographic, which
(11:16):
never really occurred to me about Glee. But I envisioned
myself when I walk into a BJS, for example, as
one does, as one does, as one does as one
sorry BJS, as one hasn't in probably fifteen years. But
when I would, my eyes are like the old Terminator movies. Yes,
(11:40):
where I walk in and I'm like threat threat threat
threat threats.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Okay, back to the office. I want to know if
Kevin was on Glee, if your character was on our show.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
What would he sing? Well, I guess a police song, Miller,
I guess, I guess rock Sanne.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
We know the police, clear we did.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
The police too are a good one.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
The so, by the way, this is but I know
you have a lot of fans who are musically inclined.
This is how it was explained to me. I don't
sing clearly, very very well, but I was explained to
me this is the nerdiest writer's room joke of all time. Okay,
(12:49):
here's how it was explained to me. If you guys
want to edit or explain it, better please do. The
police has a beat that is the drum beat. However,
the singing the vocals are lie on a different beat
(13:12):
than the drum beat. So Kevin being the lead singer
and drummer of a police cover band means he is
a musical savant. That was I was there once they
settled on the police. That is what they settled on.
(13:33):
That they were making. That the joke that was never
explained or never known. But this is how it was
explained to me. Because I was like, this does rock
me playing rocks? They're like, yeah, it's impossible to do that,
and I'm like, what do you what do you mean that?
Speaker 3 (13:47):
Uh?
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Riker's from joke. That is why we settled on me
being a drummer lead singer of love.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
That's very funny.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
I really like that. Okay, good, Okay good.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
I also don't play the drum. Don't know. If you
guys are aware, and people consistently come up and talk
to me about you know, they'll start saying anything drum
related and I have no clue what they're talking about
but another story, this story time, I said, so I did,
(14:23):
as Jen at least knows I play golf. I play
a lot of golf. And I played in Alice Cooper's
who was a big golfer charity golf event in Arizona.
And I got picked up from the airport by someone
with his in his foundation. We're driving back. I will
never forget this moment. And he said, I'd never done
(14:44):
this event before, and I'd never met Alice personally. He said, okay,
so you know tonight really low stress. I wish I
could remember who they are because you guys would know.
But I know, like Tommy Thayer from Kisses There, you know,
big Eagles guy, guy who wrote Hotel California, Alice Cooper
(15:11):
obviously in all these musicians, uh Adrian Young from No Doubt,
and they had sort of assembled an all star band
and they were going to like play a concert before
golfing the next day. And he goes, so, no pressure, Alice.
The last song he wants to sing is schools Out
for Summer. So before right before that song, if you'll
come up and you'll play the drums, oh on schools
(15:32):
Out for Summer. You know, everyone's gonna come up and
do a part, and I go, I'm like in the
backseat in the car like a mini van, and I'm like,
I don't play the drums. And all I can think
is Alice Cooper, like, let's bite the head off a rat, like,
let's like destroy something that I'm going to make him
(15:53):
mad before I've ever met him. And I'm like and
they're like, no, no, no, seriously, it's it's fine. It's like
and I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, for real, I
cannot do this. This is not this is not something
that I can accomplish. And by the end it was
me playing drums on the show. But it was but
(16:15):
it went well. The first one was a no was
there was a there was a curtain and there was
a drummer right behind me, and I was faking. I
had pads on the drums. I was. You weren't hearing
anything that I was doing. Eventually I was. But this
would be like four days of rehearsals to get the
basic moves down for a song, like we're doing this
(16:37):
song for these four songs. Yeah, and so that would
be like twelve days of me.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Rehearsal you're not whipping up a song with Alice Cooper
and all these like rock legends.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
I can't know. And today today even a song I
played on that, no Chance, no Chance, no.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Chance, funny yeah, memory, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
Exactly, Kevin, you know something about that. People have already
seen you play the bass though, right. I already played
the bass.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
On that and the guitar and the bass the first
season locally, and then luckily at some point they gave
that up because it's like I, first of all, do
not know how to do that, and then I'd spend
so much time. No, yeah, I had taken lessons growing up.
It never stuck that no, but no, no, no no,
I was like you when I'm like, I took lessons
(17:27):
growing up. I went for like two weeks and learned
two chords type of thing. When I was like ten,
I have zero ability to play the guitar, and yeah,
they had me do it and the pilot I did.
Don't stop believing. And all I and poor guy who
was teaching me to or he was like an excellent
and incredible guitar player, and he looked like he had
(17:52):
never taught someone before and was like really confused about
what was going on because I was like, I don't
actually need to know how to play. This guy, he told,
because he wanted me to like play. I'm like, no, no,
doesn't have to be like that good. I just need
to look like it.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Yeah, so they did.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
Your music live for this band. You shot that live
me your music because like if somebody's playing behind you,
they're gloring sound.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Yeah, they were a recording sound. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Never went And in fact, I will say this of
all of the because I ended up doing a bunch
of songs actually by the end all told, I mean,
I don't know, you know, there were a couple iterations
of the band that happened. I mean, eventually I started
playing with Ed Helms and Craig Robinson, who if you
know either of them, they are musical geniuses. And that's
(18:44):
an exaggeration, both of them. Oh wow, yeah, play everything
and like he is a can harmonize like a motherfucker
is singing. Yeah, but I mean like he's playing in
concerts on the banjo, which is not an easy instrument,
and he can play everything. Craig, if you hum him
(19:05):
a tune of a song he's never heard before, he
can start playing it on the piano. This is not
a joke. Greg Craig Robinson like, so I'm like, hey, guys,
when are we gonna I'm like, I'm like a nerdy
no no pun intended, the nerdy high school kid, like, hey, guys,
when don't we get to practice? And they're like, yeah, yeah,
we got it, And I'm like, no, I don't have it. Actually,
(19:28):
I don't have it at all.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
It's so unfair being around people like that.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Yeah, no, I know, but yeah, I mean, look, I
don't have to do it anymore. I don't have to
sing anymore.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
You never know.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
I I talk sing with the best of them. I
can carry a tune, but I can't like sing sing.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
Yeah yeah, yeah, neither can It's okay.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
We never had to do it live, so never you
never had to do it lot, Yes we did.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
We recorded a handful of seven hundred songs, a handful live.
Seven I recorded maybe three of my songs live, but
that's because there was acting involved, so like the sound
was important.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
I didn't want in the pilot and that was it.
They go, oh, he needs some help, so we're not
going to do that again.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
The only the only one that I did not out
of all of mine was because Steve Miller said no,
I sang the Steve Miller Live and then they brought
me in they because that was early too, they brought
me in, Yeah, and I recorded whatever we sang for
that I can't even remember.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
What it was, and they said no.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
When we came on your show, we talked about how
we got into all of this miss because obviously these
shows were life changing for all of us here, and
your show is life changing for me in a number
of ways as well. But how did how did all
of that happen? Was it just the normal audition?
Speaker 1 (21:11):
Yeah? So look, I I mean, I think the thing
that you know, and as I've talked to you guys,
as I have, you know, talked to someone's we're like
over two hundred guests. Now, I feel like I'm I
can say that I'm unique in the sense that I
truly never thought about film and television, Like I really didn't.
(21:41):
And it wasn't like an aspirational thing like I can't
ever do that. I'm from Georgia and how could that
ever happen? It wasn't that. It just truly, and I
know this sounds dumb, it just wasn't a thought I
just I didn't. I did it like, oh, that's that's
what I want to do. So I did a theater
(22:03):
as as I call it an activity, right, like, I'm
good at this. I'm going to do this for a while.
And then I went to this program at Northwestern University
between my junior and senior year. It's called the Something,
but they call them the Chair Cherub Program. And it's
(22:24):
only one summer between junior and senior year of high school.
And you go and it's I don't know, six eight
weeks and you're there at Northwestern University. So for me,
this is like, okay, wait, I'm a high school student.
Now I'm in a dorm. I'm getting independence for the
first time. Great time to be in Chicago in the summer. Yeah.
(22:46):
But I suddenly it was like my brain was opened
and I was like, oh, oh, this is like creating
a character and actions and objectives. Oh, it's not just
about having good instincts and being loud. It's oh I Oh,
I like this. And it was sort of in and
(23:07):
around there that I was like, Okay, this is what
I want to do. And I went to college for it.
I went to SMU and Dallas conservatory training program there
and and then started doing theater and truly thought that's
what my life was like. And I was doing big houses,
regional theater houses, the Guthrie and Berkeley rep and uh,
(23:30):
you know, so forth and so on around the country
and some of New York and and then it was
it was just an idea. Theater is hard one. It's
one of earlier and you have eight shows a week,
you have Mondays off, no one has it off. It's
very hard. It's just a very difficult life. And I
(23:51):
had had a weird friend, uh, not a weird friend.
I had had a a weird trip with a friend
that sounds weird too, a friend who was in LA
and I visited and kind of oddly, I mean, being
from the East Coast, I say oddly fell in love
(24:13):
with it. Like I was like, oh this is nice.
Like there's the weather is not like it. It can
be a very very seductive place. You catch it the
right week and you know that sun sun is shining.
And I remember my friend lived around Westwood and Westwood
(24:37):
and there was this magical place called the Coffee Bean
and Tea Leaf and you can sit outside with the
palm trees when the wind blowing and the Westwood Hills
and you see La.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Yeah, it's so beautiful over there.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
And so I eventually was like, Okay, you know, I'm
going to I'm gonna I'm gonna come out to l A.
I'm gonna give this thing a try. And there was
it was part of why, you know, when I left college,
I was I knew for myself and I bully, you
can make fun of this about me, but I knew
(25:14):
even then, like sleeping on someone's sofa in a studio
apartment in New York or l A, like that's not
really me, like that, that's not really And so you know,
I had moved to Minneapolis where you could make a
living and I could have, you know, a place, and
that's sort of where I started professionally in theater and
(25:36):
then started traveling around from there. But I didn't, like,
you know, it wasn't for me, you know, the weather.
I wasn't from that area. I had no sort of
uh family connection there, not that I did in LA either,
but I just.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Like the weather does make a big differ, Like to
do you just tons of like nature things. It's when
you're lonely and desperate for work.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Yeah, and my and my and my friends. You know,
I have friends who are still back in Minnesota. And
I'm like, do you realize, because you you start to
not realize when you're there how much work it is
to just be like, oh, I need to go get
the mail. Let me put on snow pants and a
jacket and gloves to walk down my driveway like this
(26:27):
is like it's that and then come inside and shake
off the snow and take it off and yeah, warm
up from the journey. Not that I had a long driveway.
It's just an example. But I so I came to LA,
and you know, and I had been working for a
time doing this and came to oh so similarly, I
(26:51):
knew I was not I was not capable of like
living on someone's sofa. For me, I thought the coming
out and I don't know if you guys did I,
but coming out to LA for a pilot season that
didn't feel real to me either. Like again, for me,
(27:12):
I was like I'm either there or I'm not. And
I so when I was ready, I moved, I moved,
I packed up the the you know. Yeah, it was
like and I I think I had said I'm going
to give it a year because I was turned down
theater work. That was the other thing. It took me
(27:33):
a couple of years after I had decided, because I
was I was getting work, and I was like, how
can I how can I say no? And so I
said a year. But I think really even ahead, I
was like, I'm gonna, you know, a couple of years,
I can, I can do this. And then a couple
of months later I met the folks on the office
(27:53):
and so once I was out it, it did happen
very quickly. But but I will say is that, you know,
when I get asked about like advice for young actors
or whatever, for me, I think the biggest thing. I
think the only reason that it happened for me. Then
I mean that there there's obviously a lot of factors
(28:15):
and timing and luck and you know, understanding characters and
so forth. But for me, I've joked like I was
the poorest person that had the highest subscription of at
the time TiVo that existed. I watched everything, and it's
always confusing to me, actors especially, and you get it
(28:37):
a lot in the theater, right, which is like I
don't watch television, right, and I'm like why, asshole, Like,
if you're wanting to work in that in that medium,
you need to understand what's going on right and what's
you know what stylistically these shows. If you get an
audition for something and you have no idea stylistically what
(28:58):
the world is that's being created, like you're giving yourself
a disservice. So I had done that and I found
because of the British version of The Office the Office,
and I was like, oh, well this I get like,
this is this is me? And so yeah, I mean
my rep at the time I said to them that
(29:20):
this is the show, and I mean, looking back at
it now, the other thing is I was so young
and inexperienced that I did things at the time or
expected things at the time which were so stupid, Like
it's so like, oh, of course this is the show
I should be on, right and now when I say that,
and now people know who I am and I say
(29:41):
that and they're like, what are you talking about? I
don't care somebody else like what do you?
Speaker 2 (29:47):
A bit of delusion can really go a long way, though, because.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
I think it's so valuable.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Yeah, you do need to be that as someone who
you moved here from Minnesota, turning down actual work where
you knew that there was going to be a check
in your bank. Like you have to have the little
delusion to be like one, I'm going to go out
there because I can do this and like, oh this show, Yes,
this is the one. I gotta do it because you
the only person that believes in you were propelling you forward?
(30:16):
Is you, Like you're the only one who really cares, right,
and so like if you're not out there like advocating
for yourself and just a little bit of the drag
delusion of it all, right, then you know there's a
there's a line to walk there. But just a little
bit really helps.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
We lost jaded assholes now it's very hard to find sometimes.
I'm not gonna lie, but I do believe that you
need it.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Worry, Jenna, I have your delusion for you whenever.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
Yeah, you do. And I know you really do need
a little bit of the magical thinking. It's very important.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
How that's crazy that happened so quickly for you, that's amazing. Yeah,
like when you how was it walking on? So like
the Allison Jones cat you first of all that, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
Well you know who who? Who? I first met with
because again I was a totally unknown person from Minnesota.
First person I read with was Phillip Smith at Allison
Jones because she Phillis was casting associate for Alison Jones,
and so I went into a small office. M hm,
(31:28):
ye met her and then met Allison. But yeah, she
was the first person I met in I mean in
in that well on that show. I mean, yeah there
was a part of that show. I mean she was
casting it at the time, and then yeah, it was
her reading with me and others that everyone wants to
(31:49):
take credit for it now, but I at least I
believe it is possible. Ken Kuoppas, the director, was like,
she needs to be in the show, and so yeah,
that's how Phillis got cast.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
Wow, how many auditions do you have to do for it?
Speaker 1 (32:03):
Honestly, I I I had that pre read. I don't
remember if I No one's ever asked me that I
have thought about it when other people have been have that,
I've asked other people. I think I did that pre read.
I don't remember, and I remember meeting Allison. I don't
(32:23):
remember if I read with her again that day, but
I only went in once.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
You've got to be Shop after that.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
After that, no, I went in. I went in once,
and that's when I met you know, Greg Daniels, Ben Silverman,
Ken Kwappas everyone, Terry Weinberg, everybody from Revellie. I mean
it was like once thirty people. Yeah, and I read
you guys know you guys know this. I don't want
(32:52):
to repeat stories. Why. I was auditioning for Stanley.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
That's right, right, and then read.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
As Kevin.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
Yeah, in the in the bigger audition you read for Kevin.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
I read for I read for Stanley as though I
were Kevin Ken and took a gamble again. What I
have done that now? No, I mean now, I probably
would have said, no, this other part is better for me,
and they may have said, okay, goodbye. But now at
the time I read that, and Allison chased after me,
(33:27):
so so I read. I read that. The second day
that I went there, I read for Stanley. I went
in reading for Stanley, and then they ran after me
and had me come back and read for Kevin or
you know, like like the same day, like I waited around. Yeah,
crazy read for Kevin. And that's it.
Speaker 3 (33:47):
It was really bold. That's really a bold choice to make.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
I was so sure, like I just got that character.
I just I just knew Yeah, I just saw it.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
Yep, yeah and yeah, I mean you obviously feel that
though from the other side of the table like they did,
like they yeah they got it, Yeah, yeah they did.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
I mean to their credit obviously I could have a
ton of credit, but.
Speaker 3 (34:14):
I like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
It's one of those things too, where it's like everyone's
just got to be lined up that day. Everyone showed
up with the right attitude. They saw you come in there,
and they're like, oh, yes, get that joke. Yes, yeah,
that is crazy. I love Alison Jones because she also
would do things like that, yes, like I feel like
there are I have not been in a lot with
(34:39):
a lot of casting directors who would try different things.
Have you come back in immediately and like try this instead.
She was like the most malleable casting director, like creative
right would sit there and be like what about this?
What about that? And a lot of people out there.
Anytime I go into that office, I'd see different people.
(35:01):
Like normally, you know, you start like the circuit, you
see the same people they're always up against. It was
always different people in there.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
Well you know, the other thing that she did she
did was and well I shouldn't say her. I I'm
sure it was partly, uh Greg Daniels, So I don't.
I don't want to give credit to the wrong person here.
But they there was no test on the show because
what they what And so maybe this is Greg. I'm sorry,
(35:31):
this is just literally my memory. But she was a
part of it. And because we're talking about her, they
said the collective they said standing this show is not
about standing up, the opposite of Glee, right, This is
not about standing up in front of a bunch of
executives testing for studio and network executives, like trying to
(35:54):
make people laugh, you know, like that. It was all
about like a subtle look to the camera. So they
set it up on the office set and filmed intimately
and interactions between people and allowed that camera to be
a character, you know, because it was the documentary. Allowed
that camera be a character. They filmed that and I think,
(36:16):
I mean, I'm sure they had to give three choices
or whatever, but I but if they're editing it, they
can adjusted how they wanted to and then sent the
choices to there. So there was not like.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
A film some sort of like their version of like whatever.
That was like a screen.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
Test essentially, like a screen test. Yeah, it was like
a screen test as opposed to what it typically is
for anybody listening that you don't know, like a network
test where you it's like a theater class, right where
two people are reading a scene together. That is a test.
Is a network test. You walk into a room and
(36:54):
you're like, Hi, this is Brian and he is reading
for Kevin. And then you have a reader and you're
just up on stage, or sometimes there's two of you
together reading and Greg. I'm sure it was Greg, but
Greg and Allison were like we no, we can't do
this show like that. Ye tell you who you want?
Speaker 3 (37:14):
Smart, very smart. What was it like shooting the pilot,
like shooting the first like initial episodes before anybody saw it.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
Yeah, so the first one. And I found this out
when I you know, when I when I when I
wrote the sort of the book about the story that
they that Greg kept the pilot essentially a shot for
not shot for shot, but essentially the same Americanized version
(37:47):
of the British pilot. But the reason is fascinating, the
reason that he did that, because I was like, why
would you do that, like, why didn't you want to
put your stand on it? You know whatever. There were
things that didn't work, and he said it had become
such a success that he felt like his job on
the pilot was to create the world of dunder Mifflin
(38:10):
in the pilot because he felt like because they were
doing the same script and it had been such a success,
he wasn't going to get noted to death about the script.
That's why he chose that, because he was like, what
you are you? How can you how can you argue
with this? And so that's how he sort of got
it passed through. And then we were only given five
(38:33):
more episodes that first year, so it was a total
of six, and you know, it was very early and
you know, Steve's character, Michael Scott, was very mean, and
the audience response was, I mean, the fact that we
were able to come back for a season two is great.
The truth is, there are some of our best episodes,
(38:54):
but diversity Day, sexual harassment, basketball episode. You know, but
I remember thinking, because you know, at the time, we
had no laugh track. It was the camera was moving
around and there were all these things that were different.
We all knew there was sort of an uphill battle
(39:15):
that like, would people give it a chance? But I
knew that if they did, what was happening was something
special because partly about on our very second episode, which
was Diversity Day, we were talking about real issues in
comedy that hadn't happened since all in the family. There
(39:38):
was like twenty to thirty years where nobody would talk
about issues in comedy, had needed just funny, don't make
a don't talk about race, don't talk about sexuality, don't
talk about you know, and suddenly we're doing episodes like
Diversity Day, yay, witch Hunt, sexual harassment, healthcare, you know,
(40:02):
all of those things which I was like, oh, we
talk about that in comedy, We'll leave that to the dramas.
But I knew it was it was. It was smart
and and and important and if if people gave us
a chance, I knew we were doing something cool.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
There was something about did you guys always film on
the same stage from the very beginning?
Speaker 1 (40:25):
You moved? We moved, Yeah, we the first six episodes.
I think this is what it was called Culvert Studios.
It was very bizarre space off of Losienega like South,
(40:46):
and there was there was a single sound stage and
upstairs was production offices and so still I assume our
office of dunder Mifflin was the production offices at that
Culver studio. Wow, that's what it was.
Speaker 3 (41:06):
Crazy.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
So we shot in their office. The soundstage was like
where we ate lunch. Like there was nothing on the soundstage.
I don't shot money anything on the sound stage. Wow.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
I feel like that intimacy of like all of you
working together sort of what feels like the little engine
that could, or like you're doing these things that like
might be controversial. People in America may get it or
they may not get it. Yeah, And because of that,
it's one of those things that you feel watching all
of you together, or like was there sort of like
this instant sort of familial bond or chemistry, And if
(41:49):
there was, like was it because of you all believed
in the show so much?
Speaker 1 (41:53):
I think there was that. I think there was also
I think there I think there were three or four things.
I think I think there was that there was true
belief in the show. Two was nobody was known or
a star at all at the time. I mean, we've
going into season two. Steve Carell became like the biggest
the comedy movie star on the planet, but he was
(42:13):
not before nothing. So there were there was that, and
there was a lot of people who, you know, something
like this she would have to tell you, but like
Malaura Harden, who played jan had been on like fourteen
pilots and none had ever gone. You know. There was
a lot of like stories like that. And then I
(42:36):
think that I don't think this was I mean, I
give Alison Jones credit for everything. I don't think that
this was necessarily intentional, But I think that also there
were two things. There was the collection of us happened
to have a great diversity in terms of experience, and
what I mean by that is, like, just to name
(42:57):
a few, like Rain Wilson and myself, we were straight
theater people who had like Coroll, Angela Kenzie, Oscar Nuniez,
improv people, BJ Novak, Craig Robinson, stand up you know, comedians,
and so we had that whole base. So everybody's kind
(43:18):
of learning from each other or like has a different
sort of perspective on what we're doingfind with the fact
that the way the show was shot in by and large,
especially early one set closed walls. We were all there
all the time because the camera was moving around. So
(43:40):
we were sixty seventy hours a week and we were
all there and so we just you know, it's like
a sports analogy of something like you know, if you're
there and you practice and you're stuck together and you're
traveling together, eventually you know exactly where everybody wants the ball,
where they want the ball delivered. How you know, oh,
(44:02):
if I do this, this is going to make this
is going to give this person this joke because that's
what they and that sort of stuff. You can't I mean,
you can't, you can't teach. I know that's like so cliche,
but it was just about that, which I mean, that's
what made us expensive, right, I mean, we're there's there's
there's there, there is a number one on the call sheet,
(44:24):
of course, but there's kind of we're all there just.
Speaker 3 (44:27):
As much, totally totally, and.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
So that was I think that was a big part
of it.
Speaker 2 (44:34):
How quickly once things started airing or because you sort
of had the reverse effect of like what you said
of normal shows, where you just kept getting bigger, where
for us, we came out the gates pretty big, and
we got really big by the second season, and then
you know, the people started to get over us. Yeah,
for you guys, because you just moved out here, you
(44:56):
shoot this pilot, you guys get six episodes hoping for
season two. You do get a season two, six episodes
for season two, which is nuts, Like, we're not really
sure about this, but we like it, so we'll keep going.
I mean, how much had your life changed or did it,
(45:16):
because in those days you were getting a normal network
show was twenty two episodes. That is, you're getting six, Yes,
a life changing amount of money for people. We were
all so brokenly started and you adjust accordingly, I think
to that. You know, we were there for ten months
out of the year shooting the show. You're doing season
(45:38):
one six episodes, season two six episodes, but then it's
also becoming really popular. Steve Carell's becoming a gigantic star.
Speaker 3 (45:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:45):
I mean, so season two we did six episodes and
we stopped. So let's say we started. We went back
in like July, end of July, shot through August, probably
Labor Day. We stopped and like it something like the
next week, our first episode was going to air, but
they returned our trailers and we cleaned them out and
(46:08):
we went home and was they was sort of like,
hope we get to do some more. And by then,
forty year old virgin, we had a good lead in
this show My Name is Earl, which you talked about
peaking early. That peaked early. We were after them and
we just started picking up and then it was it
was six and they were like, okay, you can do
(46:30):
four more. Okay, you can finish the thirteen. Okay, you
can do two more. I mean it was like at
some point it was like you can do two more,
you can, but at that point we were once we
took that first break, Yeah, the show was airing and
we were shooting, and the writers started thinking about others.
So we ended up doing twenty two that year. Oh wow.
(46:52):
But we as we had started and left, like you know,
it was probably we probably came back in October or
something like that right after after you know, October, mid
October or something when we when we were given more episodes.
But you know, then Correl wins the Golden Globe. Yeah,
and by Christmas time, that Christmas episode, which was our
(47:14):
first Christmas episode, got like over ten million viewers, and
then by February we were getting more than My Name
is Earle in the ratings at a half hour time slot,
and so when it was like all at February, the
network was finally like, okay, you can finish twenty two episodes,
(47:36):
like we'll give you the rest of the order within
a week or two. They ordered twenty two for the
next year, so it was like right then it was oh, okay,
And that's when things changed. Yeah, Like that's when like, oh,
we're gonna, we're gonna, We're gonna be around for a while.
Speaker 2 (47:55):
What a crazy work environment, a trickle of episodes two more,
one more. I don't under like, how does that feel
being on the side of what were the writers prepared?
Because you were saying the writers were already thinking ahead,
but like that's crazy, like whip up ten more.
Speaker 1 (48:12):
Yeah, but but I think the writing room was small,
but it was just like the biggest all star writing staff.
And I mean that like like in terms of like
future accomplishments. I mean it's Mindy Kaling, it's bj Novak,
it's Paul Lieberstein, it's Jensilata, it's Lee Eisenberg and Jean Stepnitzky.
(48:37):
Like it's literally like now everyone like either running shows
or writing movies or like whatever, and I'm sure I'm
apologies for whoever I just missed in that short list,
but it was small, right because they'd ordered six so
I think that you know, there were maybe where they
were like six writers. I think even Paul Lieberstein was
(48:58):
not a well maybe that was the first season. So anyway,
it yeah, it was, it was, it was. It was crazy.
And then you know, so we finished by the way,
we finished those twenty two episodes that we you know,
we had just been given the you know, ability to
do them, and then went back to recharge to do
(49:22):
season three, and before we started shooting season three that
season two that happened like that we won the Emmy four. So,
I mean, this is all of it. It's just crazy,
like not looking back on it, like how did this happen?
Speaker 2 (49:35):
I feel like the theater training was probably good for
some of that too. You're just like you're just rolling
with it. You're on set, do the work.
Speaker 3 (49:42):
But adults, you guys, are like, oh maybe true, more
like maybe i'll pay my rent, Like we really kids,
you know what I mean, They're like, we're like how
does this shit work? Like we get greenlit? What does
that mean? Do we get to do more. Yay, that's fun.
But like these were all established adults at the time, Like, yeah,
sort of, I.
Speaker 1 (50:02):
Know that thirty is kind of an adul I was thirty, Wow,
Like I was young young? Yeah, so young, that's young.
Speaker 3 (50:12):
I mean was yeah, no, that's a point.
Speaker 1 (50:16):
But I can't remember exactly how much older I was
Jenno's you know, close to that.
Speaker 3 (50:22):
Okay, that's I.
Speaker 1 (50:23):
Mean, there was a group of us. I mean I
looked older, and there was like I mean, I don't
want to give anybody's age away or whatever, but well
not even age, just experience, you know, like Melaura Harden,
like she had been working since a child and had
you know, done a ton of things. Yes, you know,
(50:46):
correl with Second City and The Daily Show and stuff
like that, like you know, he was established.
Speaker 3 (50:53):
Yeah, for sure, that's fair. That's fair. No, you were young, yeah,
I mean wow, that's like some of our guys were
older when when you started. So that's yeah, okay, fair enough.
I take it back, I take it back. Okay. Before
(51:16):
we go, we have a couple questions. It's almost July fourth.
It's my favorite time of the year because there's barbecues
and you just came out with your second barbecue cookbook. Yeah,
so you're you're a barbecue connoisseur. Tell us about your
new book.
Speaker 1 (51:32):
All right, Well, first I have to ask you guys
a question, because you're in southern California. What is if
someone says to you this came up this morning, by
the way, That's why I question. If someone says, hey,
you want to come over for a barbecue, what does
that mean?
Speaker 3 (51:50):
Oh, I have a couple of friends with smokers, smokers
at their houses.
Speaker 1 (51:55):
Okay, so that would be they're going to smoke something.
Speaker 3 (52:00):
Okay, ribs, maybe hot dogs and hamburgers. That's kind of
what I'm Okay.
Speaker 2 (52:04):
Yeah, same. It depends. If I'm in California, That's what
I'm expecting. If I'm in Texas, where I'm originally from,
it's a bit of a different answer. What is text
would that answer be? That would be more of the
the smoked things someone someone definitely has a smoker, probably,
but there's also going to be like trement as well,
(52:26):
you know, like.
Speaker 1 (52:27):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (52:31):
Bread. It's a different different So.
Speaker 1 (52:34):
I'm with you. I mean, being from Georgia, that's what
I would say. Somebody told me today they were like
I'm from North this is a breast interview. I had.
Lovely lady, Absolutely, at least be nice. I'm not saying
anything mean about you. She said, what does it mean?
She said, I'm gonna ask you a personal question. If
I said, come over to my house and have a
(52:55):
barbe and have a barbecue with me, what does that mean.
I paused for a while because she said personal question.
That put my brain somewhere else. Aside from that, I said,
I said, well, like like doing a slow cooked smoking something.
She was like, oh, okay. She said, I went out
(53:17):
to California and everyone said a barbecue was Hamberg's and
hot dogs, and I was like, that's fairy. She said,
I'm from in North Carolina. If you invite me over
for a barbecue, it has to be a whole hog.
Speaker 3 (53:31):
I was like damn.
Speaker 1 (53:33):
I was like, yeah, I'm definitely that's exactly what I said. Like,
I'm in the middle. I agree, Yeah, barbecue is not
Hamburgers and hot dogs. But yeah, that's funny. So I'm
from Georgia and I, as we've talked about, I did
theater for a long time and I worked a number
(53:55):
of times with a French director and we would have
rehearsals during the day and then this is during the
rehearsal process. Rehearsal during the day, then they would take
a dinner break. Their dinner break was two and a
half hours yea. And then they would have night rehearsals damn.
And I was like, what are we doing like two
(54:15):
and a half hours, Like let's get this done.
Speaker 3 (54:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (54:18):
It was because he would go and cook. He would
go home and he would wine and he would cook,
and I mean like cook, like hyao, cook, like we're
going to make dinner. And he taught me in a
way or what it did for him, which then I
started to buy into, which was like I am doing
(54:38):
an activity that I enjoy and it is making the
work go away. So then when I returned to it,
I actually am fresh. I'm starting anew as opposed to
keep thinking about it over this period of time. And
so I started doing that a little bit. And then
when I moved to California again because of the way
(55:00):
you can do it all the time I do. I grill,
which I won't call barbecue, but I grill and Q
on the weekends and stuff. I travel a ton, but
if I'm home like four or five nights a week,
I'm I'm out at the grill. I enjoy it. It
makes my mind two things, golf and cooking specifically at
(55:20):
a grill or barbecue. Those things make my mind clear
of work stuff, and I'm able to just focus on
the activity at hand. So it is. And so I
you know, I don't know if you ever heard, but
there was an incident with me and chili a few
years ago on UH on the office there was a
(55:43):
there was a spillage that happened. So I had a
chili cookbook, and the chili cook book it was fun.
I kind of got into the culture of that, but
this was this was really me. I mean, this is
a passion of mine, something that I really enjoy. So
I've been really excited about the response to it so far.
(56:06):
There's over one hundred recipes in there.
Speaker 2 (56:09):
That's crazy that so many recipes.
Speaker 1 (56:12):
It is a lot. But part of it also is
I feel like particularly slow cooking, yes, is intimidating for
people because they're like, I'm gonna do this for six
hours and if it turns out shitty, then what do
I got? Like?
Speaker 3 (56:26):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (56:26):
Thanks? So there there is some like tips that are like, look,
let's not let this intimidate you. Let's start with this.
Let's try this for someone like me. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
I wrote it for you.
Speaker 2 (56:41):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (56:41):
Hey, seriously good barbecue cookbook.
Speaker 2 (56:44):
Oh god, I get it, go get it. It just makes
me so hungry. Do you have favorite barbecue places in Texas?
Speaker 1 (56:53):
Well? I part of the inspiration for the book actually
was I saw a show during the pandemic about Rodney Scott's.
Oddly the we we're just talking about Rodney Scott's Whole
Hog Barbecue in Charleston, South Carolina, and I drove and
I flew back into the South and I had a
long drive because I hadn't seen my parents during the
(57:15):
pandemic in like eight or nine months. And I took
a hundreds of mile detour out of my way to
go to this spot in Charleston, which was partly the
like I was thinking about doing this, this cookbook and
wanted to go there and experience his So Texas. You know,
Dallas is a little bit of a different breed there,
(57:37):
which is where I spent most of my time. I
couldn't name for you specifically. Part of the issue is
like the and I talk about this in the cookbook.
A lot of the let's just call them larger chain
barbecue places. When you leave, what they want you to
say is, isn't that sauce really great? But it's about
(58:00):
the sauce. So they take meat and they just drown
it in sauce and it's about the sauce. And that's
the other thing that I talk about in this is
like for me, biggest tip by responsibly raised meat from
responsible sustainable farms. Yes, I promise you. One it's the
(58:24):
right thing to do, and two it just tastes better.
And if you are buying high quality sourced meat, it
is going to taste better. You're going to feel better
about it. But more you just need some rubs, some spices.
You don't need to drown it in sauce. It doesn't
have to be about sauce. So that's something else we
(58:45):
talk about, all right.
Speaker 2 (58:48):
Also, not a lot of great barbecue in LA, so
it might have to make it.
Speaker 3 (58:51):
Now, there's only a handful, all right. Before we let
you go, Ryan, we usually ask at the end of
this with people who are involved with glee, what is
the feeling that glee he leaves you with? So I'm
going to ask you, what is the feeling that the
Office leaves you with.
Speaker 1 (59:09):
Overwhelming gratitude? And for me now, the greatest gift that
the Office gave me is and we were talking about
fans earlier, but the Office gave people so much comfort
(59:32):
in oftentimes difficult times. People serving in the military, people
undergoing a family crisis of one or the other, going
through a difficult medical procedure in the hospital, very sick,
and the Office brought them comfort. I like to think
in part because of what you talked about before, Kevin,
(59:55):
they could see the love and the care between the
characters that was happening and the stories that we were telling,
and that sometimes it was mean and sometimes it wasn't pc,
but there was ultimately a feeling of love. And the
last line of the show is of the Office that
was spoken, is there's beauty and ordinary things. Isn't that
(01:00:19):
kind of the point That celebration of of regular people,
if I'm kind in myself, included regular looking people who
have small victories that you deserve to be celebrated. And
that's that's what I'm I'm grateful for that message and
(01:00:40):
being a part of that and and and truly sharing.
Speaker 3 (01:00:43):
Joy with people Yeah, it feels like that absolutely resonated
with the lot of your fans, so it still does.
Speaker 2 (01:00:51):
Yeah, yeah, Brian keeps on going. Thank you so much
for being with us.
Speaker 3 (01:00:55):
Br so good to see you, and thank you for
you to see you guys.
Speaker 1 (01:00:58):
Thank you on the back, good luck, Thank.
Speaker 2 (01:01:01):
You, go get seriously good barbecue cookbook. It's out.
Speaker 3 (01:01:04):
We love you.
Speaker 1 (01:01:06):
Now, love you guys. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (01:01:10):
So time to see you soon. Yes, sounds good, isn't
you wonderful?
Speaker 3 (01:01:19):
He's the best. He's literally the best. It's so interesting
to hear there's so many similar similarities, I guess in
the way that they felt about like the chemistry and
the care and the love for the show and that
making it so special and elevating it to the point
where like even what he said about like what the
(01:01:41):
office leaves him with, like just being really special for
the fans and for just what he hopes for. I
don't know, I just felt like very similar in a
lot of ways.
Speaker 2 (01:01:54):
Very similar, and it was like, these are two shows
that couldn't be more different in a number of ways.
They're so different. But yeah, the experience on set and
the experience of how it makes the fans feel feels
very familiar and having been around them, and I've said
(01:02:15):
it before and I'll say it again, was such a
masterclass for me, obviously in acting and being on a set,
but also how to treat people on a set. They
were all so kind, so good to me, and going
into Glee, it really felt like being able to have
spent the week with them was the best training ground
(01:02:37):
I could have asked for. And you could feel that
love between them. It was palpable and just how much
they cared about what they were doing and how good
they were, and you see it in every single episode
Special Pressure. Group of people so happy that Brian came
on to talk to us. We get to go on
his show, like we said, which is an incredible show.
You should also go listen to that, Go by Brian's book,
(01:03:00):
Seriously Good Barbecue Cookbook, which is out now. And you know,
maybe go watch the office episode that I'm in called
Launch Party. You know, whatever you want, I won't force you,
but it's a good time and you get to see
seventeen year old me with highlights, So enjoy. That's a
good time.
Speaker 3 (01:03:20):
Yeah, all right, see you next time.
Speaker 2 (01:03:22):
That's what you really missed. Thanks for listening and follow
us on Instagram at and that's what you really miss pod.
Make sure to write us a review and leave us
five stars. See you next time.
Host
Jenna Ushkowitz
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