April 14, 2025 • 52 mins
"TODAY" is the day Jenna Bush Hager joins Kristin for the iconic Baby Shower episode. In a twist, Jenna reveals her water broke at her own baby shower. But first, lets discuss the pressure on these women to have children that still exists today!
Plus, a comparison of Sex and the City and The Golden Girls you don't want to miss!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi, I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know are
you a Charlotte. We are here to recap episode one ten.
That's season one, episode ten called the Baby Show. I
remember it. It's a good one, and you're the perfect
perfect guest. I have the incredible Jenna bush Hager, she
(00:21):
as you all probably know, hosts a whole hour of
The Today Show now called The Today Show Today with
Jenna and Friends, which I was just on. I know,
I loved having you amazing and it's always great to
see you, and I get to see you twice today,
which is super exciting. And I do think you are
the perfect person to talk about this episode, the Baby Shower,
because this is a really interesting and kind of different episode.
(00:46):
I mean, the first season. I don't know when you
last have seen the beginning.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
This is what's so crazy about Sex and the City
is that they were like, Okay, they're going to talk
about this episode and I was like, oh, is that
the one.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Where shoes get stolen?
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Like I've watched it a million times over the years,
but it's crazy how much we can remember. I'm like,
I think it was in the suburbs, and they were like,
I don't know, and then they were like, yes, right.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
It's in the suburbs. I know. That is part of
the reason I wanted to do the podcast is that
our writers were just so incredible and wrote so brilliantly
about relationship things, about cultural elements of you know, aging,
and like, one of the things we really look at
in this episode is the pressure on women. Do you
want to become a mother? Do you not want to
(01:30):
become a mother? That's a pretty big, you know, issue
and question for women in their twenties and thirties. And
obviously our characters are mostly in their thirties, and Samantha's
a little bit older and obviously has a very strong
point of view. And it's very interesting to look at.
And you would think that in the twenty seven or
twenty eight years since this episode aired, things would have changed,
(01:51):
but I don't really think they have now.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
I do have one really good friend who is comfortable
saying she doesn't want Does.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
She live here in Manhattan? No?
Speaker 2 (02:02):
She lives in Texas. Wow, good for her, she lives
in Texas. I'm pressed, and I think it was a lot.
It was a lot to get there because there were pressures,
you know, so much pressure from society, but also from
where she lives and from from a lot of different places.
And I was like, I don't I feel like you
just don't want to have kids and that's okay, and
(02:23):
she's like, yeah, but I but one, you know, And
I think the conversation is slightly changing.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
But you're right, we haven't come far enough. No, we
really haven't. And the thing is as someone I'm a
single mother, and there's a lot of pressure to be
in a couple, right, but I think there's even more
pressure to be a mother, Like people look at you
sideways if you get to a certain age and you're
not a mother. It's really interesting what I like about
this episode, like so many things about it. And I
(02:50):
don't know if I told you earlier, Like I had
not seen any of these shows since I know, yeah,
since so you've just started rewatching for the podcast. Yeah,
and a lot of it. I don't remember some of it.
I do, like I have a pretty clear memory of
this because we had to get in fans and drive
out to I think Connecticut. I think we're in Connecticut.
(03:11):
I would have to check with someone, but it was
it was a ways and see the Connecticut or long
island somewhere, yes, and we were out there at that house.
I mean it felt like for weeks. We didn't have
that big of a budget to film for weeks, but
we were out there for quite some time. Yeah, with
all those ladies and children. You know, oh my gosh,
very different, very very different. So it was quite a departure.
(03:32):
And when I look back on it from a writing
perspective and a you know, just executive producing of the
show perspective, they were so bold to do it. You know,
we weren't in the city. Mister Big isn't even in
the episode. There was really no women for us. Yeah,
I mean there's some men when we come back. But
that's also kind of funny, like it's more a reaction
to having been in this like hop bed of mother
(03:55):
miss right, Like, you know, people act a little crazy
when we get back to the city. But I love
that they already had the kind of like, you know,
sense of you know, we can do this, and we
can do that. Because when you think about how the
show develops, yes, there would be really serious episodes even
though we're technically a comedy, and there would be you know,
kind of we go to La we do this we
(04:16):
do that. I mean, I love that that was kind
of there was a lot more happening in first season
than I really really remembered. Yeah, I didn't remember it.
And also at the time, my sense of it was
that we were all over the place and that we
didn't really know what we were doing. Yes, but I
think that's really came to be our strength, that we
were kind of open to different things and bolder, and
(04:38):
HBO was allowing us, you know, to try different stuff out,
which is super cool. Yes, I mean I look back
on it now and it's so much better than I
thought it was. I mean, don't you love that? Yeah? Yeah, yeah,
thank God, wouldn't be terrible if I look back and
it wasn't.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
So that it does feel relevant even now, like they
you know, I was going to say the younger, but
the next generation that has watched it can see themselves
in these women too.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Absolutely. Two girls at the airport yesterday said to me, oh,
you know, I watched this show when I was in
my twenties, and now I'm in my thirties, I understand
it's so much better than I relate to it so
much more and it's so much more interesting, and I
was like, that's cool, that's good. I mean you could
watch it at different times and have different ideas about
what the character's going through. And also just in terms
(05:23):
of identifying yourself as a character, you can start out
thinking like I'm a Miranda like Olivia was saying to
us today, and then later on you're like, oh no,
maybe exactly. Yeah, I mean it's fun. That part of
it I think is fun. And also I love to
see what has changed and what has it Yes, you
know one thing that has changed, and I'm sure you're
gonna have some thoughts on this is New York. Yeah,
(05:45):
like when I look at the old show, I love
that New York. I know, so different.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
I lived in New York, like for I was in
school in Texas, but I lived in New York for
the summer.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
That's fun. I know.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
I was taking classes like shake spear, crossy and it
was so.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Fun, was so magical. It was magical.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
I also worked at a PR firm, which was like
the best thing because I was like, oh, I hate PR.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
PR is a thankless chime, Like this is actually not
something I try to do.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
And I thought that I was into it right right right,
because you don't even know what pr I have.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
No idea what they have to do exactly, but it
but that New York was so fun.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Yeah, well year was that? That was like two thousand? No, yeah,
two thousand and one. I mean, is that too late
or is that too late?
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Am? I know that? That was a glorious summer? That
summer was like.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
What year did you wait? Twenty seven years ago? What
year did you guys start shooting?
Speaker 1 (06:43):
We filmed our pilot in ninety seven, okay, which is
insane to think about. And then we didn't get picked
up for a while, and so then when we did
get picked up, we got picked up in two thousand
and eight. Oh, we weren't picked up until two thousand
and eight. Yeah, they took over a year to pick
us up, can you believe? Yeah, thinking there was some
behind the scenes brea that is kind of boring, I think,
(07:05):
and I don't totally know for a fact, so I
shouldn't even say it. But HBO at the time was
known for having boxing and movies, and they had what
You Do You Do? And they had a show called
dream On where every week a different girl would would
be new. Yeah, it's interesting. You probably weren't watching it.
(07:26):
I remember it as an actress because I was in
LA auditioning for things that I was always like, oh
my god, I can't audition for that. But they didn't
have female driven things on HBO. And also in general,
there were not shows where there were four leading women
who were interesting in different characters. The first. I mean,
I don't think it was the first, because there's the
(07:47):
Golden Girls, which people like to compare us to. Yes,
and obviously an incredible show in its own right, in
its own way, because they were different, obviously multicam you know,
blah blah blah, and I don't know how those characters
were meant to be. They were meant to be in
their fifties. Oh that's so painful.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
And that crazy, and that's so crazy. We've like talked
about that before, Holda and I and we were like,
what that has changed?
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Don't you feel like age aging has changed? Thank god? Yeah,
no offense to anyone.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
No, we love those Golden Girls. Of course they're living
in a retirement. Sorry, believe me, I know it's crazy.
I can't even believe it.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
I know, I thought they were eighty. No, I know
me too.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Well, I know, Okay, I'm going to recover, recover, recover, Wow,
oh my god.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Well, I mean, you know, sometimes it's really good to
remember these things because these are societal, like pop culture
things elements, right, that are just part of the big
picture of what society is kind of telling us to
expect from our lives, and it's not true. Yeah, exactly.
So I think that's so important and it makes me
so happy I remember. And this is funny to say.
(09:09):
Now everyone looks at me sideways when I say this,
But for me, I've been auditioning. I've been on Melrose
Place and that was my big job. But then after that,
before that, after that.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
We've been Olivia and I've been talking all week about
how obsessed. Well we're the same age, and it's so
fun when you have somebody that has the same point. Yeah,
but we were like of that generation who would watch
nine two and oh and then melrose Place right after
ya and my child just streams television, you know, she's like, yeah,
all of Gray's Anatomy, And I'm like, do you understand
(09:39):
that we would wait for Thursday NIGHTHA Like, no.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
They don't understand. I think they're understand what I was
going to say about aging is that when we got
the show. For me, it was this huge relief that
the characters were in their thirties because I was like, oh,
thank god, I don't have to lie anymore because you're
Melrose Place. Were you playing up? Is that? Or I
can't remember. Did we even say how old oh Brooke was?
I don't know. I have no idea. I mean, I
(10:03):
feel like I was the same age as those people. Yeah,
I think we were supposed to be in our twenties,
and I feel like I was in my twenties. Yes,
I remember when I remember when Melrose aired. We had
a party. It was my birthday party and I was
turning thirty okay, and it was fun.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Yeah, I felt like I'm a successful on television.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
I did it. It's going well. So I was very happy.
But I remember just it was like kind of unheard
of that four women who were over thirties would be
starting a television show about women in their thirties in Manhattan. Yeah,
it was kind of like what And for us we
were like, Yay, we don't have to lie anymore. This
(10:44):
is awesome. And now it's kind of That's something that
I do think has changed, because you know, people are
working and working and working in you know, so many
women they were like, you know women O were fifty
taking over the oscar one hundred percent, right.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
I mean we had such a theme in our show
sort of unintentionally when Hoda was on, because Hoda just
turned sixteen. Yeah, and all of these women would come
as guests, including you, and the sort of common theme
as it gets greater later and I feel like, thank goodness,
other people are catching on culture and yes.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
And I mean that's part of the reason that we're
doing and just like that is because there is this
uh sometimes Hollywood is slow in this way of not
green lighting or not even I mean, honestly, I don't
even know what was being pitched, right because I'm not
in every office all the time. But I know for us,
you know, everyone thought, well, of course they did. And
just like that, No, there was no of course, like
(11:41):
we had to go in there and pitch it. Michael
Patrick had to have ideas or Jessica had to go
with him. We had to really convince them like this
is this is important, we need to do it. These
are the characters, of course, but like they were like, well,
what's the story, you know, and the story is that
your life keeps going and it's more interesting, and different
things happen and you have to deal with different things
(12:01):
and they're maybe hard or maybe not hard, like all
the different things. Right, But why shouldn't we be telling
those stories exactly? You know, exactly, let's talk about the
baby shower. Let's go back, but I could talk to
(12:22):
you about way. This is what's fun about the baby shower.
We begin with Kerry getting the invitation. It's very fancy,
like a wedding invitation, which I think is interesting. And
then we show everyone's reaction and of course Samantha Miranda
not very into it. They don't even want to go. Now,
apparently this woman Laney, who is pregnant and having the
(12:45):
baby shower in Connecticut, used to be a party girl,
and all of us know her, and her claim to
fame was just bizarre. Is that she would strip at parties.
I know, it's so and also like this is when
I also kind of laugh at us in terms of,
you know, we're just super casual about it, you know, like,
(13:07):
oh yes, and this is what she does. She just
stand up at parties and just take off her c
and then it does show a flashback, which I'm not in,
and I remember being so jealous that I couldn't be
in this flashback because I think it's early nineties.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Sir.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Jessica's wearing a pink cowboy hat, a pink one. Samantha's
got some big, like weirdly spiky hair. I mean, it's
super funny. Charlotte, I guess is just like at some
preppy girls. I don't know, but I really wish i'd
been in that scene when they flash back to the
pre married lady was there, Yes, take it off the
(13:42):
clothes and I mean Carrie does look horrified, you know,
but I mean Samantha at a certain point too, which
I think is interesting. They do say something about Samantha
being insecure, which I don't really think that you would
describe Samantha's insecure, But I think what it is is
that Laney was kind of in.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Her competitive Yeah, She's like, wait, who is this girl
taking her clothes off?
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Right? And and is she's doing more than I'm doing?
And do I want to do that? Do I not
want to do it? Which I think is super interesting
because we don't see Samantha like that very well, right,
So that's interesting interesting, through line for her. But so
this lady lady friend. And I do think it's also
interesting in the beginning of the show there's all these
kind of peripheral characters, but we seem to somehow know
(14:27):
them all really well totally, like every everyone totally, like
even that we haven't gotten into it, but that Charlotte
would tell this lady person her secret baby name. Okay
when how at a party, like well, okay, I mean,
but I mean, on the other hand, I love it
that they just drop us in totally. They don't explain anything, totally.
It's super interesting. Totally.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
It was before we needed all the information, Is that right,
do you think? Well, yeah, because now it's like you
talk about something, you're like, wait, google that.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
And let's find out who it is.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
That's a good point, and we have all about information
about everything. This was in the time, so true, like
probably right when Internet was, you know, before.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Barely barely social media. We're not like googling.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Every last detail, so our attention span.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
You could drop us in. That's true. And I think
Michael Patrick has said that he felt that the exposition
was not that interesting and that when you did move
to New York, you were just in life to see
people you weren't finding out where they were from and
totally all the things, you know what I mean, you
were just like at the place with that. Yeah, and
we didn't have that much time to set that all up.
So true, yeades. The episodes are twenty two minutes, that's
(15:35):
what I mean, which is insane. Yeah, I know it's
and we get a lot done, which is true. The
writing is so good. No, they're so good. I mean,
that's really the secret to our whole success. But I
think that's a boring answer for people, so they thy
loss over it. But it is the true. Okay, so
we so everyone has their different reaction. Miranda Samantha don't
even want to go, which is funny. Of course, Charlotte
(15:56):
wants to go because we I guess we haven't fully
said other than the there's an early episode where Carrie's
dating the marrying guy. Then she decides it's not for her.
She was trying him on and maybe he would be
good for me. I go out with him until we
go shopping at Bergdorf and I don't like his china pattern.
Then he likes, which really makes me laugh. Okay, so
(16:18):
we are seeing the beginnings of what is going to
turn into Charlotte really getting didactic about getting married. Yes,
but they're not totally. We didn't start with her.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
By the way, how interesting that you were so different
than her than the character you played like opposite.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
I was opposite in many ways. I mean as far
as at least the married part, the traditional part. Yeah,
I know, I know, I know, I know. It's interesting.
So we have all these different reactions. Then we get
ready to go and we've rented a car, and the
three of them are there wearing the most ninetiest sunglasses
(16:54):
I've ever seen in my life. And Samantha brings a
bottle of Scotch, Miranda brings condoms, which is like so insane,
and Carrie brings nothing. And this is one of my
most favorite moments that I definitely remember from the early
early season. I come running around the corner with the
Bellini baby basket and they made it as big as possible,
(17:16):
and this was a real thing. Look, I remember the
Ballini baby basket, all the Bellini products, and it's like
this big and a baby's supposed to sleep in, which
is also weird and funny. And I'm running and the
things are like jiggling and funny, and then we all
get in the car and no one sits in the
driver's seat and they say, I think Carrie says, can
anyone drive? Or maybe Samantha can anyone drive? Which is
(17:37):
also pretty funny and so New York. And we have
so many callbacks to that as time goes on in
terms of we go to LA and there's a whole
stress about who's going to drive, and then Carrie drives.
But then it doesn't go that great. I mean, so
many different funny things. But you know, this is so early,
so we go out there. I am immediately Charlotte is
(17:58):
immediately welcomed into the mom club because I've got the
Bullini baby baskets my ticket into the mom Club. The
others are like on the side, drinking and complaining basically
the whole time. But then we find out also that Carrie, oh,
I think in the voiceover, we found out that Carrie's
period is late, which is a really interesting tie in, yes,
and I think so relevant to life in your you know,
(18:22):
twenties and thirties in a way. And also her relationship
with Big is pretty new, so she doesn't even tell him,
which I think makes perfect sense, and she doesn't tell him,
and she says, she's so smart. And I know people
sometimes think she's not so smart, but I don't get that.
But she's you know, she she starts to she says,
you know, I'm going to ask him or I'm going
to tell it, and then she can't finish the sentence.
(18:42):
And then she says, I realized, I'm not going to
talk to him about it until I can finish the sentence. Yes.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
So smart, Yeah, totally right, like be able to think
about what you want to say before you yes.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Yes, And she doesn't even you know, go get a
test or anything until later. But I think being at
the baby shower and like at one point, these kids
running around the yard and they shoot her with a
bb gun thingy or whatever, you know, a nerve gun.
So she's, you know, it's a lot of it's a
lot of children, and she's like, oh, I better find
out later. But I love that storyline, and I love
the way that they tie it in, and I love
(19:13):
the fact that it's so early in the relationship with
Big that you know, she doesn't even know. And then
there's a lot of conversations where she mostly with Miranda
talks about, you know, do I even want kids? Am
I maternal? Like when they go to the drug store,
she literally says, do you think I could be a
good mother? And Miranda looks really nervous, like she's not sure,
which is interesting. And I think sometimes what's hard for
(19:37):
me to be objective about is I know Sarah Jessica
who's super maternal. So I was always like, of course,
but maybe I just wasn't really able, you know, to
disassociate exactly, exactly exactly, because I get it when I
look back, you know, she's out and about you know, yes, yes,
(20:00):
I know, like we were saying yes, yes, yes, yes.
I mean it's super interesting. There's so many interesting things.
I mean, there's so many interesting things said. And I'm okay, wait,
let's talk about the baby name because it's really funny.
I mean, just recently, I guess on TikTok and or Instagram,
there's been this whole sound about this man saying have
(20:20):
you heard this? What is that? Okay, it's on my
Instagram if anyone like to see it. I don't know
where it came from, but it is, you know, the
baby name that is much discussed in this episode. So
I did it and people loved it. You know, when
you do you act it out for it. Yes, I
don't understand the man who's doing it, but he's really funny,
and I don't know if it came from the show.
(20:42):
I'm perplexed. Yeah, but sometimes little pieces of things come
out in ways that are just amazing. Yeah, totally, totally,
so when we're sitting there. Oh, also I need to
mention this at one point. You know how in a
baby shower there's a tradition. I don't know if you
did this where you take all the bows from all
the packages and you make something in your head. Yes,
did you do this? No, my baby? My water broke
(21:04):
at my baby shower. Oh yeah, yeah, that's like a
TV show. No, I know, what did you do? I
went to the hospital. Did everyone panic?
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Everybody panicked? And they called my husband, who was with
some of the other guy thing like coming a beer.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
On the corner.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
And we were here in New York on the I
mean we lived here on the rooftop somewhere nearby. It
was like April, so it was beautiful and two twelve
years ago and like two weeks my daughter's.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
About to have her birthday. Oh that's nice.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
And they called and they said and everybody was laughing
because it was it was shocking. And there was only
one man in the room and it was the caterer,
and he threw paper towels at us and then walked
out of the door.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
He was just like, I cannot do with this, Oh
my god.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
And it was what was even more comedic about it
is we were in a circle, like I was opening
present right and my friend goes, oh, my gosh, she's
about to have that baby right here. My stomach made
a weird movement, Oh my god, which I guess is
what happened.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
I have no idea.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
I have no idea, okay, and it only this has
only happened with my first child. And my water broke
in front of every single person sitting, and everybody's reaction
was so different, Like somebody cried because they were pregnant,
and they were.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Like they and had so much feeling, so much feeling.
Other people were dying laughing.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
So when they called laughing, well, it was like kind
of funny, okay, because also I.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Was like, what is happening? You know?
Speaker 2 (22:35):
But they called my husband and Barbara and my sister
and I have a twin sister. We played so many
pranks on him over the years. Oh no, but he
did not believe, Like he thought this was like a
funny thing.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
Girls were doing.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
And also he'd been to the doctor like with me
the day before, where they were like, you have six more.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
Weeks, So he just was the thought.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
And then there is a producer that works on our show,
still now works on our show, who I I've known
all these years, twelve years later, who was so lovely
and earnest and kind, and her husband call was with her.
Henry my husband, and she called and she's like, no,
it's real, it's real.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
And he was like listen.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Her husband was like, I know Barbara and Jenna can lie,
but Carrie cannot.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
So you need to go to the hospital. Wow. Yeah, anyway,
so I may we put the bow on her. You
didn't get to under the band. Also, I'm not sure
people still do.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
I feel like it was more no. I kind of
remember like it wassing.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
But I just don't know if it still happens. Probably
so for some reason, Charlotte also manages to get a
bow on her head, which I really think I probably
had something to do with because it is one of
my favorite pictures. It's very funny. I mean, I also
think because Charlotte just really would like to be part
of this club, you know what I'm saying. So then
Laney has a huge amount of bows on her head,
(23:53):
at which point one of her friends says, oh, little
Shila is gonna love blah blah blah, whatever gift it was.
And I'm like what and like, you know, kind of
a big reaction for young Charlotte. I stand up like
that is my secret baby name that I told you.
She's like, well, I'm just really sorry. I don't remember,
(24:14):
and this is such an unfair thing that I'm about
to say. But like I back then would have a
lot of trouble separating the actor from the part.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Right.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
So like later on when Big has Natasha like I've
said this to Britain, I'm like, I'm really sorry. I
just really couldn't look at you. Yeah, I just couldn't.
I just couldn't like you. I know, it's terrible, it's terrible,
but luckily I can tell her that. But also with
Dana Willard Nicholson, who played this part of Laney, I
(24:44):
was just like that was very mad. So I jump
up and I say, that's my secret maybe name? And
I did tell you and she's like, I just don't remember.
And then Samantha comes in so ready to protect me.
(25:07):
It's so cute and she's like, you bitch, and we
stop off, which is adorable, and we go to a
bar which is so perfect and really funny, and I
don't really remember, like we're at some Irish bar, like
wherever we're, yeah, wherever you were, wherever we were Connecticut,
Long Island. I don't know where we were. And we
drink and I go to the bathroom when I'm gone,
(25:29):
and this is kind of heartbreaking in a way. Carry
doesn't want to tell me that she's late with her period,
so they talk about it while I'm gone. I'd sad.
And then because she doesn't want to make you feel
bad though, right because she knows so. And also I
think they don't know what I might say. You know
that I say something like you have to hide in
my naive kind of a way or whatever, which I
(25:51):
can totally see, even though as time goes on, I say,
every woman can make her own choice. I choose my choice,
which is about many things, obviously, but at that point
I think because the three of them are very much like, well,
two of them are like, we don't want that. Carrie's like,
I'm not sure what I want and I'm like, I
(26:11):
want to have babies and get married, which is interesting
and I know it's different, but I do feel like
there are groups of friends where people want different things
one hundred right. I don't have to always be people
who want the same thing. Oh you don't want that boring? Yes,
And they're super interesting and fascinating. And also Charlotte is
into her job at the gallery, so like she on
(26:32):
one note, yeah right, no, exactly, thank you too. Exactly
different people are and back in the day too, people
would be like, why is Charlotte friends with them? And
I'd be like, what, why not?
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Come on exactly? Yeah, I mean but you had other friends.
Don't like how I say you did? Welcome to my world?
Speaker 1 (26:49):
Yeah, I mean sometimes I just can't even say that, right,
you know, I did have other like kind of not
really am right. One time later on, we do see
these girls that she went to Smith with. She goes
to a brunch with them, and she realizes, to her
horror that she is now the Samantha of that group.
(27:12):
It's a wild, fascinating scene. Yes, and I drink too
much and then I throw money at them. I don't
know why exactly. We'll have to or yeah, I guess
I don't really know. They make me mad for some reason. Yeah,
I don't know. We're gonna find out when we get there.
You know, it is wild. I mean, Charlotte has had
quite a development, you know, which is a good thing
(27:34):
obviously as an actor, and you know, yeah, she evolves
just like humans do, absolutely as have the others, right,
And I do think it's oh, one of my favorite things.
When they get so they go back to the city,
they're kind of having like a reaction to being in
this mommy club baes. They go back to the city
and Samantha has a I don't have a baby party,
which is so hysterical and also reminds me. Do you
(27:56):
remember when Carrie later on and I think this is
when her shoes might get stolen. I'm not sure she
has a no, no, this one. She has to take
her shoes off anyway. She has a party that for
her own engagement or whatever, like I'm engaged to me, yes,
so that she can get gifts.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
Oh, yes, exactly, she's like a register or something. Yes, yes,
it's hysterical us.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
Like I love that we took on all these kind
of you know, like traditions, yes, and that we are
not really fair to everybody, to women, yeah yeah, and
like I'll put you under pressure and you know, expectations
and whatnot, and somehow also holds you up like this
is your choice or whatever. I think. Samantha even says
at one point like she's trying to say that she's
(28:40):
worthy by having a baby, like she's you know, yeah,
which is really interesting and I think does happen, Yes,
don't you Yes, totally, which is sad. I know, like
that's not why you have a baby.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
No, no, but people do, I think or or just
feel like it's part of the pressures of being a woman.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
And it is part of the pressures of being a woman,
and that's why you're worth. Oh it's not a worth
And I mean then, and this is coming up too
in a big way, because what Carrie's dealing with would
be who am I? You know, if I if I
were to be pregnant and have bigs baby, whether we
were together or not, Like, will I give up who
(29:21):
I really am? Has Lane given up who she is.
Because then we get back to the city and Laney
calls Carrie and she's like, where should get together? And
Carrie's like, oh, I'm sorry, I've got to go. I'm
going to Samantha's party. She's like, Samantha's having a party.
And then she shows up there with her pregnant self
and she wants to strip off her care.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
That's hilarious and it's just so uncomfortable, and everyone of
the party just looks more to yeah, you're like Laney
and that also think about that. What that says about
women too, is that as soon as they become pregnant,
there's somebody else right, and.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
They're not sexual and they're not fun and like you're
just a different person, which is so unfair. But also
it is a huge life change. Yes it is, for sure,
for sure. But she tries to get up on this
like it's like a coffee table. I guess we're like
a stuffed thing, but it's big, and she's so pregnant,
(30:15):
and I remember us being really nervous, even though she
wasn't pregnant. You were really nervous, turn I mean, and
all of us are horrified as well. But literally every
person in the party is hard horrified, and luckily she
can't do it and she gets down, thank God, thank god.
But it gets carry all in her head about what
if I was pregnant, A what would I do?
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Be?
Speaker 1 (30:35):
Am I maternal? See? Who would I be? Because I've
just been career career, career, Yes, And then at a
certain point she goes to I believe They're in Central
Park and the trees are blooming. It's just so glorious.
And she's at like one of the little the little
side you know, playground parks, and she's watching all the
little kids and they're adorable, and of course they picked
(30:55):
this kid to us hair like Sir Jessica's color comes
over and like you know, plays around her feet and
the mom's like sorry, and she's like no, she's adorable.
And it's the cutest scene and Sir g Justca is
so so good in it, and it's what I love
about it. And again, I just don't remember this happening
in television shows. I think it was more of kind
(31:16):
of a film thing that you could have moments where
the lead character is just in silence, and that I
think she's got some voiceover, but she's also just sitting
watching and that wasn't something that you used to really
see television. Yeah, and it made us feel number one,
like you could really get inside Carrie's mind, and the
(31:38):
voiceover of course helped, but also like that you could
really it had some space to think about the ideas
which I think we're so central to the writing and
to the whole development of the show, these ideas, and
it let the viewer think, yeah, what do I think
would Carrie be a good mother? Would I be a
good mother? Do I want to be? You know? It
let you also have the experience, like the space to think.
(32:01):
And I remember that being something that Sara Jessica also
kind of pushed and stood up for ongoingly. You know,
like we need to remember that she's got to have
time to be processing, because it would always start with
the question like I wonder blah blah blah, you know,
made me think about blah blah. Yeah, but then like
she's trying to work through it too. Yes, she's not
just theoretically thinking about it, she's like where do I the.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
Whole episode it's like the thesis of what she's going through.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
Yep. And eventually those thesises became what we were all
going through. Yes, exactly. That has not come into play yet, exactly.
And I do feel like she looks at the camera
once or twice in this episode. What did you think
about that? People have very mixed feeling.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
About her breaking the third wall basically, I mean, I
can't what in the she I didn't? That did not
bother me. But did it stop? I remember it at
the beginning?
Speaker 1 (32:50):
Did stop? Halfway through? It does stop, but it's weird.
It comes back all of a sudden, You're like, it's
happening again.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
I remember when she would do it, I remember, But
then I feel like it became less break round, yes
for sure.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
And then we also had, you know, the people on
the street who would talk, which also became not kind
highly entertaining.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
And at the first season, I remember that it kind
of gives you slight It was kind of like Lawn
Order vibes for some reason, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (33:21):
Like at the very beginning.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
Of Law and Order, where there's the person that's like
and you're like, are they going to be part of
this anymore? And it was just like because that was
always like the person on the street was not even
an integral part of the.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
You mean the person who gets killed.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
Yes, I do the very prom not even what the
show is about, do.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (33:46):
And then when you have the person on the street
look at the camera and say something, it would never
have been somebody no been.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
Like a Laney. Yeah, I know, it's someone else. It's
actors who were hired. And as I think, Jenny Bikes,
who was our first female writer who joined, told me
it was so much work production wise because the casting
people would have to cast them and makeup all wardrobe,
and then we would have to set up different shots
like it would be a whole day of that god,
(34:14):
which we didn't really have time for, you know, So
from that perspective it was hard. I think that there
I've met a lot of people who enjoy it, which
really surprised me. Get rid of me. It was a
little campy, yes, I mean sometimes also I think it
was a little campy because they would give those people
the most extreme thing. Well totally. You know, we're like
(34:37):
like the moms at the Bridle Baby Shower du where
they're like I tell my son every day that he's
the best. I mean that actually might be part of
a scene. But he's amazing and he he rules the world.
I tell him every day. And then she walks away,
and Miranda's like, I wonder if any woman is ever
going to be able to please that man when he's growth.
(34:58):
You're like, I know, I know, I know. And then
like another woman is like, you know, I just love
to play. And then I go in the closet and
I drink. I can't remember what she said.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
It's, you know, the more strong like of course, because
otherwise what they're like the comical.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Sort of yes, yes. And also I mean, I do
think it's true that there's going to be a huge
variety of people on this subject matter, different things totally. Yeah,
which that part was interesting, but I think because we
didn't get to develop those characters, it's not that interesting,
which is why we do eventually get rid of it.
(35:34):
So we go. I love the scene they go they
go to the drug store to buy the pregnancy test,
Miranda and Carrie and I always love Miranda and carry together.
And I hadn't really realized this entire through line. Also,
like they really have these deep talks, the two of them, yea,
the whole time since the beginning that they don't really
(35:57):
have with the rest of us, not in the same way. Yeah,
you know, yeah, it's true, and they're so different, and
I think that Miranda really is more I don't know,
straightforward tells it like it is to carry than the
rest of us. Obviously. Charlotte is always like cheerleader, yes, yeah,
and how I say, sort of what she wants to
(36:19):
hear r and positive, like just trying to always put
the positive on it. And then Samantha might just be like,
oh no, you know, she just might be like like,
don't do that, you know, you know, like cut to
the negative. I don't know if that's quite the right word,
but you know what I'm saying, or dismissive or almost
like I'm cynical or whatever, like yeah, that's not going
to work out, you know. And then Miranda is just
(36:40):
kind of in the middle but very accurate, like she
really knows her wow, which I think is also really
such a great writing you know that they wrote them
so early on.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
And to think about those dynamics separately as well as
as a whole.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Absolutely and back back in this time. And this is
also what I love about this episode. All four of
us are together for most of the episode, which I
love because we didn't even have the coffee shop set yet, right,
so we had had little restaurant scenes that are actually
in little restaurants, but not every episode, which that hadn't
kind of gelled yet either. But this particular episode, we're
(37:16):
all there and then we all go to the bar,
and then we all go to Samantha's I Don't have
a Baby party, which I think is adorable and hilarious,
and then Lany cms we're all mortified, and then Miranda
starts making out with Samantha's accountant. But I mean, the
thing that's fascinating to me, and this is part of
the reason I did the podcast, is that the topics
that we used way back then in nineteen ninety eight, yes,
(37:38):
are still relevant and interesting.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
Right.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
That was part of the reason that I thought, yes,
we can do a podcast and we can talk about
that and how it's changed or how it hasn't changed,
or how does this feel to women now or men
or any anybody. Right, it's super interesting, And then some
of the things really haven't changed. And I did feel
also like there was a lot of behind the scenes
stuff that we didn't used to talk about because there
(38:00):
was no social media. I don't think people were necessarily
as interested in how we made film and TV. Yeah,
you know, I agree with you. And we always felt
like we might seem like we were complaining if we
talked about the fact that we were up all night
all the time. Because we were up all night all
the time, yes, because that's what we had to do.
And we didn't ever want people to see us as complaining, right,
(38:21):
because we were so thrilled to have our job. You know,
our job was like no other job. It was amazing
and we knew that, you know, so we didn't want
to be like, oh, we're so tired, you know. We
thought that would be bad, like bad form, I guess, right.
But I mean, now I feel like everyone knows so
much more about how things are made. And you know,
(38:42):
you'll have people out filming when you're you know, filming,
they're filming filming.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
We've shown pictures of y'all filming. We've seen it, I know,
But you would never have seen that the first time.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
No. Oh no, First of all, it was five in
the morning. Yeah. Second of no, no, the paparazzi didn't come,
and the fans didn't come. I mean, and the movies.
The movies is when yes, no, no, oh no no,
and Sir Jessica got pregnant. That was when things changed,
and that was so frightening and scary. That was when
(39:15):
there was no sense from the magazines that maybe it
was inappropriate to chase a pregnant woman around the terrible town.
I know, it was very scary to watch, and they
would sit with us for you know, fourteen hours, like
it was nuts. Do you feel like that's gotten better?
I do. I don't want to say too much, but
(39:38):
there's like a few people around town who can be
like I think, was it last season to Paparazzi? Maybe
second season of And just like that, two party got
a fistfight over their positioning to be photographing us during
a scene like you know, and you we're like, we
got to also focus on our job, right, we need
to get through the shots. Yeah, we need to get
(40:00):
the shot. We need to not run over you guys.
I mean, there is to be alive, you know. And
then if there's like fisticus, you're like, oh my gosh,
what is going on? People? But I mean at this
point we are kind of used to it in a
really weird way. I'll tell you. What does worry me though,
is that sometimes the fans, like Sir Jessica and I
had a walk and talk towards the end, and our
(40:21):
production value now is like so way up here, I'm
back to me. I mean we did a lot with
a little I'm saying, but we use a lot of
handheld cameras in steady cam and like even just on
the shoulder, totally crazy and we would just wheel these
lights down the stream. I mean it was insane, right,
But now we have huge cranes right and everything's beautifully
(40:41):
lid and all, thank you, thank you. We try, we try,
and Michael Patrick feels very strongly about that. He feels
like the fans expect that and he wants to give.
Speaker 2 (40:49):
That big fan part of it is so visual, right,
especially in the movies too.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
I think the movie has changed the game for us
and it's hard to go back. We have this fantasy
that when we came back for it and just like that,
that we would just be like gorilla filmmaking like we
used to be at the beginning. I don't know what
we were, because it does. Yeah, but we try to
do our best, but sometimes we don't walk very fast
because we've got the crane, and the crane can only
(41:14):
move so fast. And I remember seeing somebody watching, a
fan watching, and saying like, I'm so disappointed. I thought
they were walking so much faster, and I want to
be like, well, when it's cut together, it's going to
be okay. Don't don't ruin it for yourself. And also
they didn't know what we're talking about. We're talking about
something serious, so we're kind of a little more contemplative
and yeah, right, but like you don't you don't want
(41:36):
to ruin it for the viewers.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
Yeah, that's what I worry about now, Yes, you know, like,
is it too much a storyline or something? I remember
there was like some photo that everybody completely obsessed.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
Over and now I can't even remember what it was. Right, well,
carry with some man or something? Ready? Aiden was back?
Is Aiden back? Oh? Yeah, babe? That was you got
to catch out? Was it? Aiden's back? Baby? Can you
make your notes? I can't tell you anything. He was
back and now he's kind of gone, Oh.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
You need to catch up the whole first season, which I.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
Was obsessed with. If you like the first season, you'll
really love the third season is coming that's adorable. Yeah,
Aiden's back. Yeah, I'm not I'm not giving anything. Okay,
I was like, am I giving something? Aiden came back
and then Aiden left again, and no, okay, watch just
just watch because there are there are photographs out there.
(42:33):
So I don't think that I'm telling anything. I shouldn't
be telling you. No, that's what I'm thinking. Yeah, I mean. Also,
the funny thing is sometimes Michael Patrick, who is the
one who sometimes really wants us to keep secrets, he
writes these scenes that are on the street. We're trying
to keep a secret, but this is going.
Speaker 2 (42:47):
To give out a lot of people here, like many people.
Speaker 1 (42:51):
And John Corbyn is very very tall. No one's going
to miss him out on the street. He is there
in all his glory. But it's great, great interesting storyline,
storyline involving I'm not getting be any way. I don't
think that was not in season two, parenting and divorce
(43:12):
and kind of you know, things that we have to
deal with at this age. Yeah, I hope you like it.
I can't wait to hear. I wanted to ask you too,
and this is kind of you can you don't have
(43:34):
to answer these what I'm super curious to your thought
because of the way that we talk about motherhood in
this episode. And obviously I wasn't even thinking about these
things at the time that we filmed it, right, But
now many many many years later, and I've got two
kids I adopted and I love so much. But also
it is really hard to still have a job. Like
the whole having it all is really hard. But our
(43:56):
characters are before that, yes, but also contemplating could I
possibly do both or not do both? And I'm just
curious if you had thoughts on that topic or like
giving giving up your other life.
Speaker 2 (44:09):
Yeah, I mean I think I think obviously you can't
have it. I think the idea that having it all
is sort of First of all, nobody's asking, like my
husband that people aren't asking men. Good if we're giving
up things for jobs, you know, yes, I had like
a even still I don't know nobody's asking that. No,
(44:30):
and we're talking more about like fair play. And there's
many friends I have that are doing it on their own.
And but but the point is, I feel like anything
that sort of separates women and a time where women
need each other, So like when I was pregnant with
or maybe my second daughter, somebody was like, now are
(44:53):
you going to take maternity leave?
Speaker 1 (44:54):
And I don't know why it rubbed me the wrong way,
but I'm like, why do you care?
Speaker 2 (44:59):
Totally, I it's not your business situation is first of all,
we should all be able to take as much leave
as we can, which is not I just found like
that that conversations around balance were inherently a little elitist.
Like I worked in inner city d C in West
Baltimore with parents who did anything for their kids but
(45:20):
also worked multiple jobs and of course, you know, and
nobody was like, so, hey, what's your balance situation?
Speaker 1 (45:28):
You know? So I found like and also when.
Speaker 2 (45:31):
I first had kids, I was like, when people are
asking me about that, it made me feel like I
was doing something.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
Wrong because there's guilt and here you can't have it all.
Like what you said is so true.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
It's like something may suffer, and usually what it is
is our mental health and our mental health and our
time to like, you know, somebody was like, will you
take your shoes off?
Speaker 1 (45:53):
I'm like, I'll take my shoes off, but my toes
looked terrible.
Speaker 2 (45:55):
You know, Like I'm like, I don't have time to
go get a pedicure and listen.
Speaker 1 (45:59):
If I've time for its excited, right, Yeah, and that's
all fine. Sad, it's sad, it's sad and fine, Yeah,
it's fine. Of course have made these choices.
Speaker 2 (46:08):
And that is and I was thrilled you made those
choices with those of course, you know, and so but no,
And I also had a friend at work who was like,
I don't know about having kids.
Speaker 1 (46:18):
I'm worried.
Speaker 2 (46:19):
And I will say, in my line of work, having
kids is just enriched what we do.
Speaker 1 (46:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:26):
Oh absolutely, so I said to this person, I'm like,
and also, don't let work be the reason.
Speaker 1 (46:32):
No, you know, no, I agree. I think you have
to really deeply listen inside yourself about what you need
to be happy and think about, you know, are you
going to regret not making a decision. You know.
Speaker 2 (46:45):
Hodi's story is and she wouldn't mind me saying this
because she said it a million times. She was walking
with a friend who and neither one of them had children,
and they were in their like, probably late forties, and
the friend said, I mean, you and I we just
never wanted kids. And she stopped and she like internalized
it and stopped and was like, I mean because nobody
(47:06):
asked her, I don't think right because she hadn't had
a partner, right, And so I feel like, you know, yes,
must resonate a little. It's like, oh, you must have
a partner to do it. It's like no women can
do things. But she was like, wait, I actually do.
And it was like the second she said it out loud,
everything changed for her and she now adopted her to
little girls.
Speaker 1 (47:26):
So wonderful. Now, I do think it is really interesting,
the trajectory of all of it. And I think everyone
is so different and you need to honor your own
self and not be just, you know, trying to satisfy
what the society wants or what your parents want, or
what your friends want or what your friends are doing.
And luckily, I think partly because I was an actress
(47:48):
and I lived here and then I lived in LA,
I had people all over the board. You know what
I'm saying, Older moms, younger moms, you know, non moms.
You know I feel that way too. Yeah, I'm sure
not everybody feels no, of course, but it helps to
have and I do feel and I'm not one hundred
percent sure, but I do feel like now out in society.
Because of social media, you can find your group. Yeah
(48:11):
more so, Yeah, I think you're right. I think I hope,
I hope that that's true. And I do feel like
like the worst thing I think could be doing something
from a pressured place that you don't feel in your
own gut. Because parenting is no joke. It is amazing,
but it is.
Speaker 2 (48:29):
It's interesting because I don't, like, I won't feel bad
about work mistakes or obviously if I've heard somebody's spit
right or something, you know, that hangs on me. But
I don't if I'm like, you know, mess up on
the prompter or whatever it is, right, ask a question
that was dumb, I never think about it again, right, right,
I'll like stay up all night long or not because
(48:52):
I'm not a warrior.
Speaker 1 (48:53):
But well, you have to think about the right feeling,
you know.
Speaker 2 (48:58):
If I'm like and I'll say, you know, like to
people like God, I need more time here right there.
I think about that way more than I do.
Speaker 1 (49:06):
The mental weight, the mental weight of parentage is extinct.
And I did not. I did not really realize that.
Now me neither, Yeah, because two by myself, I mean,
if you're not thinking about one you're thinking together.
Speaker 2 (49:20):
But you're also you've also given them each other. I
have AI, and having a sister is the best.
Speaker 1 (49:26):
And I didn't. I was single child, and that's part
of why I did it the best.
Speaker 2 (49:30):
An only child too, And so she was so thrilled
to be able to have siblings because.
Speaker 1 (49:36):
Talk about the book that you wrote with your mom.
Speaker 2 (49:40):
With my sister, actually with my sister, which is exactly
what I'm saying. But the amazing there's this article that
called Frank Bruni. It's by Frank Brune in the New
York Times, called the Gift of a Sibling. And yeah,
Barbara and I, like we just adore each other. And
it's called Love Comes First, and it's about that parental
feeling of like it's called I loved you First.
Speaker 1 (50:00):
I just made up the title, but you know that
feeling of.
Speaker 2 (50:06):
Having a child and thinking like, oh my gosh, like
the amount of love is so infinite. And I think
all humans have that, absolutely, that possibility.
Speaker 1 (50:17):
And I think they have it, you know, whether it's
their own child or other children, or their whatever is
their creation exactly. But I do love those books. We
have a book about adoption that I believe is called
something No, I can't remember. It's like a baby version
about like where love comes from, just like the love
(50:40):
is there and then I had to find you. Yeah,
which I think is great, whether you're having the baby
in the traditional sense or adopting the baby, because I
do feel like that's true, you know, like there's a
space in you that opens and then is filled by
that child, and then it's way more than you expected. Totally, yes,
and then her sister, Yes, yes, it opens again. And
(51:03):
I don't think there is a limit really, and I
know certainly I was a godmother before I was a mother,
and my goddaughter Arden, who I love so much, who
i'd love to have on the show one day, because
I won't have like many generations, right, you know I was,
I was Auntie and Andie's great. Oh yeah, so much time.
Speaker 2 (51:18):
It is important, yes, like really an important.
Speaker 1 (51:21):
Role for because it's a different role and they can
go to you with other things, and you provide a
different kind of a safety zone than their own parents.
Speaker 2 (51:30):
In this world, and particularly now, I feel like we
need as much love, yeah, to go around.
Speaker 1 (51:35):
No joke, this is true, This is true. Well, I
can't wait to get your book. Where can I.
Speaker 2 (51:40):
Get your book, I'm like, you can get it at
your indie bookstore, and I apologize.
Speaker 1 (51:46):
That's okay. I love the indie bookstore. I have a
good one in Brown I go to Yeah local indie
me too, me too cool, so important for communities, I
know for sure. And also you can find really unique
things now, which is so nice. It's nice to just
browse in the bookstore like the olden days. Yes, well
you are joy, thank you, thank you for I loved here.
(52:08):
That was so funisode. I know, I know, And it's
so trippy how related it all is, and how many
conversations you could have. This could have been a twelve
hour podcast.
Hi, I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know are
you a Charlotte. We are here to recap episode one ten.
That's season one, episode ten called the Baby Show. I
remember it. It's a good one, and you're the perfect
perfect guest. I have the incredible Jenna bush Hager, she
(00:21):
as you all probably know, hosts a whole hour of
The Today Show now called The Today Show Today with
Jenna and Friends, which I was just on. I know,
I loved having you amazing and it's always great to
see you, and I get to see you twice today,
which is super exciting. And I do think you are
the perfect person to talk about this episode, the Baby Shower,
because this is a really interesting and kind of different episode.
(00:46):
I mean, the first season. I don't know when you
last have seen the beginning.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
This is what's so crazy about Sex and the City
is that they were like, Okay, they're going to talk
about this episode and I was like, oh, is that
the one.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Where shoes get stolen?
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Like I've watched it a million times over the years,
but it's crazy how much we can remember. I'm like,
I think it was in the suburbs, and they were like,
I don't know, and then they were like, yes, right.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
It's in the suburbs. I know. That is part of
the reason I wanted to do the podcast is that
our writers were just so incredible and wrote so brilliantly
about relationship things, about cultural elements of you know, aging,
and like, one of the things we really look at
in this episode is the pressure on women. Do you
want to become a mother? Do you not want to
(01:30):
become a mother? That's a pretty big, you know, issue
and question for women in their twenties and thirties. And
obviously our characters are mostly in their thirties, and Samantha's
a little bit older and obviously has a very strong
point of view. And it's very interesting to look at.
And you would think that in the twenty seven or
twenty eight years since this episode aired, things would have changed,
(01:51):
but I don't really think they have now.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
I do have one really good friend who is comfortable
saying she doesn't want Does.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
She live here in Manhattan? No?
Speaker 2 (02:02):
She lives in Texas. Wow, good for her, she lives
in Texas. I'm pressed, and I think it was a lot.
It was a lot to get there because there were pressures,
you know, so much pressure from society, but also from
where she lives and from from a lot of different places.
And I was like, I don't I feel like you
just don't want to have kids and that's okay, and
(02:23):
she's like, yeah, but I but one, you know, And
I think the conversation is slightly changing.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
But you're right, we haven't come far enough. No, we
really haven't. And the thing is as someone I'm a
single mother, and there's a lot of pressure to be
in a couple, right, but I think there's even more
pressure to be a mother, Like people look at you
sideways if you get to a certain age and you're
not a mother. It's really interesting what I like about
this episode, like so many things about it. And I
(02:50):
don't know if I told you earlier, Like I had
not seen any of these shows since I know, yeah,
since so you've just started rewatching for the podcast. Yeah,
and a lot of it. I don't remember some of it.
I do, like I have a pretty clear memory of
this because we had to get in fans and drive
out to I think Connecticut. I think we're in Connecticut.
(03:11):
I would have to check with someone, but it was
it was a ways and see the Connecticut or long
island somewhere, yes, and we were out there at that house.
I mean it felt like for weeks. We didn't have
that big of a budget to film for weeks, but
we were out there for quite some time. Yeah, with
all those ladies and children. You know, oh my gosh,
very different, very very different. So it was quite a departure.
(03:32):
And when I look back on it from a writing
perspective and a you know, just executive producing of the
show perspective, they were so bold to do it. You know,
we weren't in the city. Mister Big isn't even in
the episode. There was really no women for us. Yeah,
I mean there's some men when we come back. But
that's also kind of funny, like it's more a reaction
to having been in this like hop bed of mother
(03:55):
miss right, Like, you know, people act a little crazy
when we get back to the city. But I love
that they already had the kind of like, you know,
sense of you know, we can do this, and we
can do that. Because when you think about how the
show develops, yes, there would be really serious episodes even
though we're technically a comedy, and there would be you know,
kind of we go to La we do this we
(04:16):
do that. I mean, I love that that was kind
of there was a lot more happening in first season
than I really really remembered. Yeah, I didn't remember it.
And also at the time, my sense of it was
that we were all over the place and that we
didn't really know what we were doing. Yes, but I
think that's really came to be our strength, that we
were kind of open to different things and bolder, and
(04:38):
HBO was allowing us, you know, to try different stuff out,
which is super cool. Yes, I mean I look back
on it now and it's so much better than I
thought it was. I mean, don't you love that? Yeah? Yeah, yeah,
thank God, wouldn't be terrible if I look back and
it wasn't.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
So that it does feel relevant even now, like they
you know, I was going to say the younger, but
the next generation that has watched it can see themselves
in these women too.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Absolutely. Two girls at the airport yesterday said to me, oh,
you know, I watched this show when I was in
my twenties, and now I'm in my thirties, I understand
it's so much better than I relate to it so
much more and it's so much more interesting, and I
was like, that's cool, that's good. I mean you could
watch it at different times and have different ideas about
what the character's going through. And also just in terms
(05:23):
of identifying yourself as a character, you can start out
thinking like I'm a Miranda like Olivia was saying to
us today, and then later on you're like, oh no,
maybe exactly. Yeah, I mean it's fun. That part of
it I think is fun. And also I love to
see what has changed and what has it Yes, you
know one thing that has changed, and I'm sure you're
gonna have some thoughts on this is New York. Yeah,
(05:45):
like when I look at the old show, I love
that New York. I know, so different.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
I lived in New York, like for I was in
school in Texas, but I lived in New York for
the summer.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
That's fun. I know.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
I was taking classes like shake spear, crossy and it
was so.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Fun, was so magical. It was magical.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
I also worked at a PR firm, which was like
the best thing because I was like, oh, I hate PR.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
PR is a thankless chime, Like this is actually not
something I try to do.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
And I thought that I was into it right right right,
because you don't even know what pr I have.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
No idea what they have to do exactly, but it
but that New York was so fun.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Yeah, well year was that? That was like two thousand? No, yeah,
two thousand and one. I mean, is that too late
or is that too late?
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Am? I know that? That was a glorious summer? That
summer was like.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
What year did you wait? Twenty seven years ago? What
year did you guys start shooting?
Speaker 1 (06:43):
We filmed our pilot in ninety seven, okay, which is
insane to think about. And then we didn't get picked
up for a while, and so then when we did
get picked up, we got picked up in two thousand
and eight. Oh, we weren't picked up until two thousand
and eight. Yeah, they took over a year to pick
us up, can you believe? Yeah, thinking there was some
behind the scenes brea that is kind of boring, I think,
(07:05):
and I don't totally know for a fact, so I
shouldn't even say it. But HBO at the time was
known for having boxing and movies, and they had what
You Do You Do? And they had a show called
dream On where every week a different girl would would
be new. Yeah, it's interesting. You probably weren't watching it.
(07:26):
I remember it as an actress because I was in
LA auditioning for things that I was always like, oh
my god, I can't audition for that. But they didn't
have female driven things on HBO. And also in general,
there were not shows where there were four leading women
who were interesting in different characters. The first. I mean,
I don't think it was the first, because there's the
(07:47):
Golden Girls, which people like to compare us to. Yes,
and obviously an incredible show in its own right, in
its own way, because they were different, obviously multicam you know,
blah blah blah, and I don't know how those characters
were meant to be. They were meant to be in
their fifties. Oh that's so painful.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
And that crazy, and that's so crazy. We've like talked
about that before, Holda and I and we were like,
what that has changed?
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Don't you feel like age aging has changed? Thank god? Yeah,
no offense to anyone.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
No, we love those Golden Girls. Of course they're living
in a retirement. Sorry, believe me, I know it's crazy.
I can't even believe it.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
I know, I thought they were eighty. No, I know
me too.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Well, I know, Okay, I'm going to recover, recover, recover, Wow,
oh my god.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Well, I mean, you know, sometimes it's really good to
remember these things because these are societal, like pop culture
things elements, right, that are just part of the big
picture of what society is kind of telling us to
expect from our lives, and it's not true. Yeah, exactly.
So I think that's so important and it makes me
so happy I remember. And this is funny to say.
(09:09):
Now everyone looks at me sideways when I say this,
But for me, I've been auditioning. I've been on Melrose
Place and that was my big job. But then after that,
before that, after that.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
We've been Olivia and I've been talking all week about
how obsessed. Well we're the same age, and it's so
fun when you have somebody that has the same point. Yeah,
but we were like of that generation who would watch
nine two and oh and then melrose Place right after
ya and my child just streams television, you know, she's like, yeah,
all of Gray's Anatomy, And I'm like, do you understand
(09:39):
that we would wait for Thursday NIGHTHA Like, no.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
They don't understand. I think they're understand what I was
going to say about aging is that when we got
the show. For me, it was this huge relief that
the characters were in their thirties because I was like, oh,
thank god, I don't have to lie anymore because you're
Melrose Place. Were you playing up? Is that? Or I
can't remember. Did we even say how old oh Brooke was?
I don't know. I have no idea. I mean, I
(10:03):
feel like I was the same age as those people. Yeah,
I think we were supposed to be in our twenties,
and I feel like I was in my twenties. Yes,
I remember when I remember when Melrose aired. We had
a party. It was my birthday party and I was
turning thirty okay, and it was fun.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Yeah, I felt like I'm a successful on television.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
I did it. It's going well. So I was very happy.
But I remember just it was like kind of unheard
of that four women who were over thirties would be
starting a television show about women in their thirties in Manhattan. Yeah,
it was kind of like what And for us we
were like, Yay, we don't have to lie anymore. This
(10:44):
is awesome. And now it's kind of That's something that
I do think has changed, because you know, people are
working and working and working in you know, so many
women they were like, you know women O were fifty
taking over the oscar one hundred percent, right.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
I mean we had such a theme in our show
sort of unintentionally when Hoda was on, because Hoda just
turned sixteen. Yeah, and all of these women would come
as guests, including you, and the sort of common theme
as it gets greater later and I feel like, thank goodness,
other people are catching on culture and yes.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
And I mean that's part of the reason that we're
doing and just like that is because there is this
uh sometimes Hollywood is slow in this way of not
green lighting or not even I mean, honestly, I don't
even know what was being pitched, right because I'm not
in every office all the time. But I know for us,
you know, everyone thought, well, of course they did. And
just like that, No, there was no of course, like
(11:41):
we had to go in there and pitch it. Michael
Patrick had to have ideas or Jessica had to go
with him. We had to really convince them like this
is this is important, we need to do it. These
are the characters, of course, but like they were like, well,
what's the story, you know, and the story is that
your life keeps going and it's more interesting, and different
things happen and you have to deal with different things
(12:01):
and they're maybe hard or maybe not hard, like all
the different things. Right, But why shouldn't we be telling
those stories exactly? You know, exactly, let's talk about the
baby shower. Let's go back, but I could talk to
(12:22):
you about way. This is what's fun about the baby shower.
We begin with Kerry getting the invitation. It's very fancy,
like a wedding invitation, which I think is interesting. And
then we show everyone's reaction and of course Samantha Miranda
not very into it. They don't even want to go. Now,
apparently this woman Laney, who is pregnant and having the
(12:45):
baby shower in Connecticut, used to be a party girl,
and all of us know her, and her claim to
fame was just bizarre. Is that she would strip at parties.
I know, it's so and also like this is when
I also kind of laugh at us in terms of,
you know, we're just super casual about it, you know, like,
(13:07):
oh yes, and this is what she does. She just
stand up at parties and just take off her c
and then it does show a flashback, which I'm not in,
and I remember being so jealous that I couldn't be
in this flashback because I think it's early nineties.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Sir.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Jessica's wearing a pink cowboy hat, a pink one. Samantha's
got some big, like weirdly spiky hair. I mean, it's
super funny. Charlotte, I guess is just like at some
preppy girls. I don't know, but I really wish i'd
been in that scene when they flash back to the
pre married lady was there, Yes, take it off the
(13:42):
clothes and I mean Carrie does look horrified, you know,
but I mean Samantha at a certain point too, which
I think is interesting. They do say something about Samantha
being insecure, which I don't really think that you would
describe Samantha's insecure, But I think what it is is
that Laney was kind of in.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Her competitive Yeah, She's like, wait, who is this girl
taking her clothes off?
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Right? And and is she's doing more than I'm doing?
And do I want to do that? Do I not
want to do it? Which I think is super interesting
because we don't see Samantha like that very well, right,
So that's interesting interesting, through line for her. But so
this lady lady friend. And I do think it's also
interesting in the beginning of the show there's all these
kind of peripheral characters, but we seem to somehow know
(14:27):
them all really well totally, like every everyone totally, like
even that we haven't gotten into it, but that Charlotte
would tell this lady person her secret baby name. Okay
when how at a party, like well, okay, I mean,
but I mean, on the other hand, I love it
that they just drop us in totally. They don't explain anything, totally.
It's super interesting. Totally.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
It was before we needed all the information, Is that right,
do you think? Well, yeah, because now it's like you
talk about something, you're like, wait, google that.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
And let's find out who it is.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
That's a good point, and we have all about information
about everything. This was in the time, so true, like
probably right when Internet was, you know, before.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Barely barely social media. We're not like googling.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Every last detail, so our attention span.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
You could drop us in. That's true. And I think
Michael Patrick has said that he felt that the exposition
was not that interesting and that when you did move
to New York, you were just in life to see
people you weren't finding out where they were from and
totally all the things, you know what I mean, you
were just like at the place with that. Yeah, and
we didn't have that much time to set that all up.
So true, yeades. The episodes are twenty two minutes, that's
(15:35):
what I mean, which is insane. Yeah, I know it's
and we get a lot done, which is true. The
writing is so good. No, they're so good. I mean,
that's really the secret to our whole success. But I
think that's a boring answer for people, so they thy
loss over it. But it is the true. Okay, so
we so everyone has their different reaction. Miranda Samantha don't
even want to go, which is funny. Of course, Charlotte
(15:56):
wants to go because we I guess we haven't fully
said other than the there's an early episode where Carrie's
dating the marrying guy. Then she decides it's not for her.
She was trying him on and maybe he would be
good for me. I go out with him until we
go shopping at Bergdorf and I don't like his china pattern.
Then he likes, which really makes me laugh. Okay, so
(16:18):
we are seeing the beginnings of what is going to
turn into Charlotte really getting didactic about getting married. Yes,
but they're not totally. We didn't start with her.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
By the way, how interesting that you were so different
than her than the character you played like opposite.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
I was opposite in many ways. I mean as far
as at least the married part, the traditional part. Yeah,
I know, I know, I know, I know. It's interesting.
So we have all these different reactions. Then we get
ready to go and we've rented a car, and the
three of them are there wearing the most ninetiest sunglasses
(16:54):
I've ever seen in my life. And Samantha brings a
bottle of Scotch, Miranda brings condoms, which is like so insane,
and Carrie brings nothing. And this is one of my
most favorite moments that I definitely remember from the early
early season. I come running around the corner with the
Bellini baby basket and they made it as big as possible,
(17:16):
and this was a real thing. Look, I remember the
Ballini baby basket, all the Bellini products, and it's like
this big and a baby's supposed to sleep in, which
is also weird and funny. And I'm running and the
things are like jiggling and funny, and then we all
get in the car and no one sits in the
driver's seat and they say, I think Carrie says, can
anyone drive? Or maybe Samantha can anyone drive? Which is
(17:37):
also pretty funny and so New York. And we have
so many callbacks to that as time goes on in
terms of we go to LA and there's a whole
stress about who's going to drive, and then Carrie drives.
But then it doesn't go that great. I mean, so
many different funny things. But you know, this is so early,
so we go out there. I am immediately Charlotte is
(17:58):
immediately welcomed into the mom club because I've got the
Bullini baby baskets my ticket into the mom Club. The
others are like on the side, drinking and complaining basically
the whole time. But then we find out also that Carrie, oh,
I think in the voiceover, we found out that Carrie's
period is late, which is a really interesting tie in, yes,
and I think so relevant to life in your you know,
(18:22):
twenties and thirties in a way. And also her relationship
with Big is pretty new, so she doesn't even tell him,
which I think makes perfect sense, and she doesn't tell him,
and she says, she's so smart. And I know people
sometimes think she's not so smart, but I don't get that.
But she's you know, she she starts to she says,
you know, I'm going to ask him or I'm going
to tell it, and then she can't finish the sentence.
(18:42):
And then she says, I realized, I'm not going to
talk to him about it until I can finish the sentence. Yes.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
So smart, Yeah, totally right, like be able to think
about what you want to say before you yes.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Yes, And she doesn't even you know, go get a
test or anything until later. But I think being at
the baby shower and like at one point, these kids
running around the yard and they shoot her with a
bb gun thingy or whatever, you know, a nerve gun.
So she's, you know, it's a lot of it's a
lot of children, and she's like, oh, I better find
out later. But I love that storyline, and I love
the way that they tie it in, and I love
(19:13):
the fact that it's so early in the relationship with
Big that you know, she doesn't even know. And then
there's a lot of conversations where she mostly with Miranda
talks about, you know, do I even want kids? Am
I maternal? Like when they go to the drug store,
she literally says, do you think I could be a
good mother? And Miranda looks really nervous, like she's not sure,
which is interesting. And I think sometimes what's hard for
(19:37):
me to be objective about is I know Sarah Jessica
who's super maternal. So I was always like, of course,
but maybe I just wasn't really able, you know, to
disassociate exactly, exactly exactly, because I get it when I
look back, you know, she's out and about you know, yes, yes,
(20:00):
I know, like we were saying yes, yes, yes, yes.
I mean it's super interesting. There's so many interesting things.
I mean, there's so many interesting things said. And I'm okay, wait,
let's talk about the baby name because it's really funny.
I mean, just recently, I guess on TikTok and or Instagram,
there's been this whole sound about this man saying have
(20:20):
you heard this? What is that? Okay, it's on my
Instagram if anyone like to see it. I don't know
where it came from, but it is, you know, the
baby name that is much discussed in this episode. So
I did it and people loved it. You know, when
you do you act it out for it. Yes, I
don't understand the man who's doing it, but he's really funny,
and I don't know if it came from the show.
(20:42):
I'm perplexed. Yeah, but sometimes little pieces of things come
out in ways that are just amazing. Yeah, totally, totally,
so when we're sitting there. Oh, also I need to
mention this at one point. You know how in a
baby shower there's a tradition. I don't know if you
did this where you take all the bows from all
the packages and you make something in your head. Yes,
did you do this? No, my baby? My water broke
(21:04):
at my baby shower. Oh yeah, yeah, that's like a
TV show. No, I know, what did you do? I
went to the hospital. Did everyone panic?
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Everybody panicked? And they called my husband, who was with
some of the other guy thing like coming a beer.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
On the corner.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
And we were here in New York on the I
mean we lived here on the rooftop somewhere nearby. It
was like April, so it was beautiful and two twelve
years ago and like two weeks my daughter's.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
About to have her birthday. Oh that's nice.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
And they called and they said and everybody was laughing
because it was it was shocking. And there was only
one man in the room and it was the caterer,
and he threw paper towels at us and then walked
out of the door.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
He was just like, I cannot do with this, Oh
my god.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
And it was what was even more comedic about it
is we were in a circle, like I was opening
present right and my friend goes, oh, my gosh, she's
about to have that baby right here. My stomach made
a weird movement, Oh my god, which I guess is
what happened.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
I have no idea.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
I have no idea, okay, and it only this has
only happened with my first child. And my water broke
in front of every single person sitting, and everybody's reaction
was so different, Like somebody cried because they were pregnant,
and they were.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Like they and had so much feeling, so much feeling.
Other people were dying laughing.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
So when they called laughing, well, it was like kind
of funny, okay, because also I.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Was like, what is happening? You know?
Speaker 2 (22:35):
But they called my husband and Barbara and my sister
and I have a twin sister. We played so many
pranks on him over the years. Oh no, but he
did not believe, Like he thought this was like a
funny thing.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
Girls were doing.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
And also he'd been to the doctor like with me
the day before, where they were like, you have six more.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
Weeks, So he just was the thought.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
And then there is a producer that works on our show,
still now works on our show, who I I've known
all these years, twelve years later, who was so lovely
and earnest and kind, and her husband call was with her.
Henry my husband, and she called and she's like, no,
it's real, it's real.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
And he was like listen.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Her husband was like, I know Barbara and Jenna can lie,
but Carrie cannot.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
So you need to go to the hospital. Wow. Yeah, anyway,
so I may we put the bow on her. You
didn't get to under the band. Also, I'm not sure
people still do.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
I feel like it was more no. I kind of
remember like it wassing.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
But I just don't know if it still happens. Probably
so for some reason, Charlotte also manages to get a
bow on her head, which I really think I probably
had something to do with because it is one of
my favorite pictures. It's very funny. I mean, I also
think because Charlotte just really would like to be part
of this club, you know what I'm saying. So then
Laney has a huge amount of bows on her head,
(23:53):
at which point one of her friends says, oh, little
Shila is gonna love blah blah blah, whatever gift it was.
And I'm like what and like, you know, kind of
a big reaction for young Charlotte. I stand up like
that is my secret baby name that I told you.
She's like, well, I'm just really sorry. I don't remember,
(24:14):
and this is such an unfair thing that I'm about
to say. But like I back then would have a
lot of trouble separating the actor from the part.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Right.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
So like later on when Big has Natasha like I've
said this to Britain, I'm like, I'm really sorry. I
just really couldn't look at you. Yeah, I just couldn't.
I just couldn't like you. I know, it's terrible, it's terrible,
but luckily I can tell her that. But also with
Dana Willard Nicholson, who played this part of Laney, I
(24:44):
was just like that was very mad. So I jump
up and I say, that's my secret maybe name? And
I did tell you and she's like, I just don't remember.
And then Samantha comes in so ready to protect me.
(25:07):
It's so cute and she's like, you bitch, and we
stop off, which is adorable, and we go to a
bar which is so perfect and really funny, and I
don't really remember, like we're at some Irish bar, like
wherever we're, yeah, wherever you were, wherever we were Connecticut,
Long Island. I don't know where we were. And we
drink and I go to the bathroom when I'm gone,
(25:29):
and this is kind of heartbreaking in a way. Carry
doesn't want to tell me that she's late with her period,
so they talk about it while I'm gone. I'd sad.
And then because she doesn't want to make you feel
bad though, right because she knows so. And also I
think they don't know what I might say. You know
that I say something like you have to hide in
my naive kind of a way or whatever, which I
(25:51):
can totally see, even though as time goes on, I say,
every woman can make her own choice. I choose my choice,
which is about many things, obviously, but at that point
I think because the three of them are very much like, well,
two of them are like, we don't want that. Carrie's like,
I'm not sure what I want and I'm like, I
(26:11):
want to have babies and get married, which is interesting
and I know it's different, but I do feel like
there are groups of friends where people want different things
one hundred right. I don't have to always be people
who want the same thing. Oh you don't want that boring? Yes,
And they're super interesting and fascinating. And also Charlotte is
into her job at the gallery, so like she on
(26:32):
one note, yeah right, no, exactly, thank you too. Exactly
different people are and back in the day too, people
would be like, why is Charlotte friends with them? And
I'd be like, what, why not?
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Come on exactly? Yeah, I mean but you had other friends.
Don't like how I say you did? Welcome to my world?
Speaker 1 (26:49):
Yeah, I mean sometimes I just can't even say that, right,
you know, I did have other like kind of not
really am right. One time later on, we do see
these girls that she went to Smith with. She goes
to a brunch with them, and she realizes, to her
horror that she is now the Samantha of that group.
(27:12):
It's a wild, fascinating scene. Yes, and I drink too
much and then I throw money at them. I don't
know why exactly. We'll have to or yeah, I guess
I don't really know. They make me mad for some reason. Yeah,
I don't know. We're gonna find out when we get there.
You know, it is wild. I mean, Charlotte has had
quite a development, you know, which is a good thing
(27:34):
obviously as an actor, and you know, yeah, she evolves
just like humans do, absolutely as have the others, right,
And I do think it's oh, one of my favorite things.
When they get so they go back to the city,
they're kind of having like a reaction to being in
this mommy club baes. They go back to the city
and Samantha has a I don't have a baby party,
which is so hysterical and also reminds me. Do you
(27:56):
remember when Carrie later on and I think this is
when her shoes might get stolen. I'm not sure she
has a no, no, this one. She has to take
her shoes off anyway. She has a party that for
her own engagement or whatever, like I'm engaged to me, yes,
so that she can get gifts.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
Oh, yes, exactly, she's like a register or something. Yes, yes,
it's hysterical us.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
Like I love that we took on all these kind
of you know, like traditions, yes, and that we are
not really fair to everybody, to women, yeah yeah, and
like I'll put you under pressure and you know, expectations
and whatnot, and somehow also holds you up like this
is your choice or whatever. I think. Samantha even says
at one point like she's trying to say that she's
(28:40):
worthy by having a baby, like she's you know, yeah,
which is really interesting and I think does happen, Yes,
don't you Yes, totally, which is sad. I know, like
that's not why you have a baby.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
No, no, but people do, I think or or just
feel like it's part of the pressures of being a woman.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
And it is part of the pressures of being a woman,
and that's why you're worth. Oh it's not a worth
And I mean then, and this is coming up too
in a big way, because what Carrie's dealing with would
be who am I? You know, if I if I
were to be pregnant and have bigs baby, whether we
were together or not, Like, will I give up who
(29:21):
I really am? Has Lane given up who she is.
Because then we get back to the city and Laney
calls Carrie and she's like, where should get together? And
Carrie's like, oh, I'm sorry, I've got to go. I'm
going to Samantha's party. She's like, Samantha's having a party.
And then she shows up there with her pregnant self
and she wants to strip off her care.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
That's hilarious and it's just so uncomfortable, and everyone of
the party just looks more to yeah, you're like Laney
and that also think about that. What that says about
women too, is that as soon as they become pregnant,
there's somebody else right, and.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
They're not sexual and they're not fun and like you're
just a different person, which is so unfair. But also
it is a huge life change. Yes it is, for sure,
for sure. But she tries to get up on this
like it's like a coffee table. I guess we're like
a stuffed thing, but it's big, and she's so pregnant,
(30:15):
and I remember us being really nervous, even though she
wasn't pregnant. You were really nervous, turn I mean, and
all of us are horrified as well. But literally every
person in the party is hard horrified, and luckily she
can't do it and she gets down, thank God, thank god.
But it gets carry all in her head about what
if I was pregnant, A what would I do?
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Be?
Speaker 1 (30:35):
Am I maternal? See? Who would I be? Because I've
just been career career, career, Yes, And then at a
certain point she goes to I believe They're in Central
Park and the trees are blooming. It's just so glorious.
And she's at like one of the little the little
side you know, playground parks, and she's watching all the
little kids and they're adorable, and of course they picked
(30:55):
this kid to us hair like Sir Jessica's color comes
over and like you know, plays around her feet and
the mom's like sorry, and she's like no, she's adorable.
And it's the cutest scene and Sir g Justca is
so so good in it, and it's what I love
about it. And again, I just don't remember this happening
in television shows. I think it was more of kind
(31:16):
of a film thing that you could have moments where
the lead character is just in silence, and that I
think she's got some voiceover, but she's also just sitting
watching and that wasn't something that you used to really
see television. Yeah, and it made us feel number one,
like you could really get inside Carrie's mind, and the
(31:38):
voiceover of course helped, but also like that you could
really it had some space to think about the ideas
which I think we're so central to the writing and
to the whole development of the show, these ideas, and
it let the viewer think, yeah, what do I think
would Carrie be a good mother? Would I be a
good mother? Do I want to be? You know? It
let you also have the experience, like the space to think.
(32:01):
And I remember that being something that Sara Jessica also
kind of pushed and stood up for ongoingly. You know,
like we need to remember that she's got to have
time to be processing, because it would always start with
the question like I wonder blah blah blah, you know,
made me think about blah blah. Yeah, but then like
she's trying to work through it too. Yes, she's not
just theoretically thinking about it, she's like where do I the.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
Whole episode it's like the thesis of what she's going through.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
Yep. And eventually those thesises became what we were all
going through. Yes, exactly. That has not come into play yet, exactly.
And I do feel like she looks at the camera
once or twice in this episode. What did you think
about that? People have very mixed feeling.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
About her breaking the third wall basically, I mean, I
can't what in the she I didn't? That did not
bother me. But did it stop? I remember it at
the beginning?
Speaker 1 (32:50):
Did stop? Halfway through? It does stop, but it's weird.
It comes back all of a sudden, You're like, it's
happening again.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
I remember when she would do it, I remember, But
then I feel like it became less break round, yes
for sure.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
And then we also had, you know, the people on
the street who would talk, which also became not kind
highly entertaining.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
And at the first season, I remember that it kind
of gives you slight It was kind of like Lawn
Order vibes for some reason, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (33:21):
Like at the very beginning.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
Of Law and Order, where there's the person that's like
and you're like, are they going to be part of
this anymore? And it was just like because that was
always like the person on the street was not even
an integral part of the.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
You mean the person who gets killed.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
Yes, I do the very prom not even what the
show is about, do.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (33:46):
And then when you have the person on the street
look at the camera and say something, it would never
have been somebody no been.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
Like a Laney. Yeah, I know, it's someone else. It's
actors who were hired. And as I think, Jenny Bikes,
who was our first female writer who joined, told me
it was so much work production wise because the casting
people would have to cast them and makeup all wardrobe,
and then we would have to set up different shots
like it would be a whole day of that god,
(34:14):
which we didn't really have time for, you know, So
from that perspective it was hard. I think that there
I've met a lot of people who enjoy it, which
really surprised me. Get rid of me. It was a
little campy, yes, I mean sometimes also I think it
was a little campy because they would give those people
the most extreme thing. Well totally. You know, we're like
(34:37):
like the moms at the Bridle Baby Shower du where
they're like I tell my son every day that he's
the best. I mean that actually might be part of
a scene. But he's amazing and he he rules the world.
I tell him every day. And then she walks away,
and Miranda's like, I wonder if any woman is ever
going to be able to please that man when he's growth.
(34:58):
You're like, I know, I know, I know. And then
like another woman is like, you know, I just love
to play. And then I go in the closet and
I drink. I can't remember what she said.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
It's, you know, the more strong like of course, because
otherwise what they're like the comical.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Sort of yes, yes. And also I mean, I do
think it's true that there's going to be a huge
variety of people on this subject matter, different things totally. Yeah,
which that part was interesting, but I think because we
didn't get to develop those characters, it's not that interesting,
which is why we do eventually get rid of it.
(35:34):
So we go. I love the scene they go they
go to the drug store to buy the pregnancy test,
Miranda and Carrie and I always love Miranda and carry together.
And I hadn't really realized this entire through line. Also,
like they really have these deep talks, the two of them, yea,
the whole time since the beginning that they don't really
(35:57):
have with the rest of us, not in the same way. Yeah,
you know, yeah, it's true, and they're so different, and
I think that Miranda really is more I don't know,
straightforward tells it like it is to carry than the
rest of us. Obviously. Charlotte is always like cheerleader, yes, yeah,
and how I say, sort of what she wants to
(36:19):
hear r and positive, like just trying to always put
the positive on it. And then Samantha might just be like,
oh no, you know, she just might be like like,
don't do that, you know, you know, like cut to
the negative. I don't know if that's quite the right word,
but you know what I'm saying, or dismissive or almost
like I'm cynical or whatever, like yeah, that's not going
to work out, you know. And then Miranda is just
(36:40):
kind of in the middle but very accurate, like she
really knows her wow, which I think is also really
such a great writing you know that they wrote them
so early on.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
And to think about those dynamics separately as well as
as a whole.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Absolutely and back back in this time. And this is
also what I love about this episode. All four of
us are together for most of the episode, which I
love because we didn't even have the coffee shop set yet, right,
so we had had little restaurant scenes that are actually
in little restaurants, but not every episode, which that hadn't
kind of gelled yet either. But this particular episode, we're
(37:16):
all there and then we all go to the bar,
and then we all go to Samantha's I Don't have
a Baby party, which I think is adorable and hilarious,
and then Lany cms we're all mortified, and then Miranda
starts making out with Samantha's accountant. But I mean, the
thing that's fascinating to me, and this is part of
the reason I did the podcast, is that the topics
that we used way back then in nineteen ninety eight, yes,
(37:38):
are still relevant and interesting.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
Right.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
That was part of the reason that I thought, yes,
we can do a podcast and we can talk about
that and how it's changed or how it hasn't changed,
or how does this feel to women now or men
or any anybody. Right, it's super interesting, And then some
of the things really haven't changed. And I did feel
also like there was a lot of behind the scenes
stuff that we didn't used to talk about because there
(38:00):
was no social media. I don't think people were necessarily
as interested in how we made film and TV. Yeah,
you know, I agree with you. And we always felt
like we might seem like we were complaining if we
talked about the fact that we were up all night
all the time. Because we were up all night all
the time, yes, because that's what we had to do.
And we didn't ever want people to see us as complaining, right,
(38:21):
because we were so thrilled to have our job. You know,
our job was like no other job. It was amazing
and we knew that, you know, so we didn't want
to be like, oh, we're so tired, you know. We
thought that would be bad, like bad form, I guess, right.
But I mean, now I feel like everyone knows so
much more about how things are made. And you know,
(38:42):
you'll have people out filming when you're you know, filming,
they're filming filming.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
We've shown pictures of y'all filming. We've seen it, I know,
But you would never have seen that the first time.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
No. Oh no, First of all, it was five in
the morning. Yeah. Second of no, no, the paparazzi didn't come,
and the fans didn't come. I mean, and the movies.
The movies is when yes, no, no, oh no no,
and Sir Jessica got pregnant. That was when things changed,
and that was so frightening and scary. That was when
(39:15):
there was no sense from the magazines that maybe it
was inappropriate to chase a pregnant woman around the terrible town.
I know, it was very scary to watch, and they
would sit with us for you know, fourteen hours, like
it was nuts. Do you feel like that's gotten better?
I do. I don't want to say too much, but
(39:38):
there's like a few people around town who can be
like I think, was it last season to Paparazzi? Maybe
second season of And just like that, two party got
a fistfight over their positioning to be photographing us during
a scene like you know, and you we're like, we
got to also focus on our job, right, we need
to get through the shots. Yeah, we need to get
(40:00):
the shot. We need to not run over you guys.
I mean, there is to be alive, you know. And
then if there's like fisticus, you're like, oh my gosh,
what is going on? People? But I mean at this
point we are kind of used to it in a
really weird way. I'll tell you. What does worry me though,
is that sometimes the fans, like Sir Jessica and I
had a walk and talk towards the end, and our
(40:21):
production value now is like so way up here, I'm
back to me. I mean we did a lot with
a little I'm saying, but we use a lot of
handheld cameras in steady cam and like even just on
the shoulder, totally crazy and we would just wheel these
lights down the stream. I mean it was insane, right,
But now we have huge cranes right and everything's beautifully
(40:41):
lid and all, thank you, thank you. We try, we try,
and Michael Patrick feels very strongly about that. He feels
like the fans expect that and he wants to give.
Speaker 2 (40:49):
That big fan part of it is so visual, right,
especially in the movies too.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
I think the movie has changed the game for us
and it's hard to go back. We have this fantasy
that when we came back for it and just like that,
that we would just be like gorilla filmmaking like we
used to be at the beginning. I don't know what
we were, because it does. Yeah, but we try to
do our best, but sometimes we don't walk very fast
because we've got the crane, and the crane can only
(41:14):
move so fast. And I remember seeing somebody watching, a
fan watching, and saying like, I'm so disappointed. I thought
they were walking so much faster, and I want to
be like, well, when it's cut together, it's going to
be okay. Don't don't ruin it for yourself. And also
they didn't know what we're talking about. We're talking about
something serious, so we're kind of a little more contemplative
and yeah, right, but like you don't you don't want
(41:36):
to ruin it for the viewers.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
Yeah, that's what I worry about now, Yes, you know, like,
is it too much a storyline or something? I remember
there was like some photo that everybody completely obsessed.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
Over and now I can't even remember what it was. Right, well,
carry with some man or something? Ready? Aiden was back?
Is Aiden back? Oh? Yeah, babe? That was you got
to catch out? Was it? Aiden's back? Baby? Can you
make your notes? I can't tell you anything. He was
back and now he's kind of gone, Oh.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
You need to catch up the whole first season, which I.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
Was obsessed with. If you like the first season, you'll
really love the third season is coming that's adorable. Yeah,
Aiden's back. Yeah, I'm not I'm not giving anything. Okay,
I was like, am I giving something? Aiden came back
and then Aiden left again, and no, okay, watch just
just watch because there are there are photographs out there.
(42:33):
So I don't think that I'm telling anything. I shouldn't
be telling you. No, that's what I'm thinking. Yeah, I mean. Also,
the funny thing is sometimes Michael Patrick, who is the
one who sometimes really wants us to keep secrets, he
writes these scenes that are on the street. We're trying
to keep a secret, but this is going.
Speaker 2 (42:47):
To give out a lot of people here, like many people.
Speaker 1 (42:51):
And John Corbyn is very very tall. No one's going
to miss him out on the street. He is there
in all his glory. But it's great, great interesting storyline,
storyline involving I'm not getting be any way. I don't
think that was not in season two, parenting and divorce
(43:12):
and kind of you know, things that we have to
deal with at this age. Yeah, I hope you like it.
I can't wait to hear. I wanted to ask you too,
and this is kind of you can you don't have
(43:34):
to answer these what I'm super curious to your thought
because of the way that we talk about motherhood in
this episode. And obviously I wasn't even thinking about these
things at the time that we filmed it, right, But
now many many many years later, and I've got two
kids I adopted and I love so much. But also
it is really hard to still have a job. Like
the whole having it all is really hard. But our
(43:56):
characters are before that, yes, but also contemplating could I
possibly do both or not do both? And I'm just
curious if you had thoughts on that topic or like
giving giving up your other life.
Speaker 2 (44:09):
Yeah, I mean I think I think obviously you can't
have it. I think the idea that having it all
is sort of First of all, nobody's asking, like my
husband that people aren't asking men. Good if we're giving
up things for jobs, you know, yes, I had like
a even still I don't know nobody's asking that. No,
(44:30):
and we're talking more about like fair play. And there's
many friends I have that are doing it on their own.
And but but the point is, I feel like anything
that sort of separates women and a time where women
need each other, So like when I was pregnant with
or maybe my second daughter, somebody was like, now are
(44:53):
you going to take maternity leave?
Speaker 1 (44:54):
And I don't know why it rubbed me the wrong way,
but I'm like, why do you care?
Speaker 2 (44:59):
Totally, I it's not your business situation is first of all,
we should all be able to take as much leave
as we can, which is not I just found like
that that conversations around balance were inherently a little elitist.
Like I worked in inner city d C in West
Baltimore with parents who did anything for their kids but
(45:20):
also worked multiple jobs and of course, you know, and
nobody was like, so, hey, what's your balance situation?
Speaker 1 (45:28):
You know? So I found like and also when.
Speaker 2 (45:31):
I first had kids, I was like, when people are
asking me about that, it made me feel like I
was doing something.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
Wrong because there's guilt and here you can't have it all.
Like what you said is so true.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
It's like something may suffer, and usually what it is
is our mental health and our mental health and our
time to like, you know, somebody was like, will you
take your shoes off?
Speaker 1 (45:53):
I'm like, I'll take my shoes off, but my toes
looked terrible.
Speaker 2 (45:55):
You know, Like I'm like, I don't have time to
go get a pedicure and listen.
Speaker 1 (45:59):
If I've time for its excited, right, Yeah, and that's
all fine. Sad, it's sad, it's sad and fine, Yeah,
it's fine. Of course have made these choices.
Speaker 2 (46:08):
And that is and I was thrilled you made those
choices with those of course, you know, and so but no,
And I also had a friend at work who was like,
I don't know about having kids.
Speaker 1 (46:18):
I'm worried.
Speaker 2 (46:19):
And I will say, in my line of work, having
kids is just enriched what we do.
Speaker 1 (46:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:26):
Oh absolutely, so I said to this person, I'm like,
and also, don't let work be the reason.
Speaker 1 (46:32):
No, you know, no, I agree. I think you have
to really deeply listen inside yourself about what you need
to be happy and think about, you know, are you
going to regret not making a decision. You know.
Speaker 2 (46:45):
Hodi's story is and she wouldn't mind me saying this
because she said it a million times. She was walking
with a friend who and neither one of them had children,
and they were in their like, probably late forties, and
the friend said, I mean, you and I we just
never wanted kids. And she stopped and she like internalized
it and stopped and was like, I mean because nobody
(47:06):
asked her, I don't think right because she hadn't had
a partner, right, And so I feel like, you know, yes,
must resonate a little. It's like, oh, you must have
a partner to do it. It's like no women can
do things. But she was like, wait, I actually do.
And it was like the second she said it out loud,
everything changed for her and she now adopted her to
little girls.
Speaker 1 (47:26):
So wonderful. Now, I do think it is really interesting,
the trajectory of all of it. And I think everyone
is so different and you need to honor your own
self and not be just, you know, trying to satisfy
what the society wants or what your parents want, or
what your friends want or what your friends are doing.
And luckily, I think partly because I was an actress
(47:48):
and I lived here and then I lived in LA,
I had people all over the board. You know what
I'm saying, Older moms, younger moms, you know, non moms.
You know I feel that way too. Yeah, I'm sure
not everybody feels no, of course, but it helps to
have and I do feel and I'm not one hundred
percent sure, but I do feel like now out in society.
Because of social media, you can find your group. Yeah
(48:11):
more so, Yeah, I think you're right. I think I hope,
I hope that that's true. And I do feel like
like the worst thing I think could be doing something
from a pressured place that you don't feel in your
own gut. Because parenting is no joke. It is amazing,
but it is.
Speaker 2 (48:29):
It's interesting because I don't, like, I won't feel bad
about work mistakes or obviously if I've heard somebody's spit
right or something, you know, that hangs on me. But
I don't if I'm like, you know, mess up on
the prompter or whatever it is, right, ask a question
that was dumb, I never think about it again, right, right,
I'll like stay up all night long or not because
(48:52):
I'm not a warrior.
Speaker 1 (48:53):
But well, you have to think about the right feeling,
you know.
Speaker 2 (48:58):
If I'm like and I'll say, you know, like to
people like God, I need more time here right there.
I think about that way more than I do.
Speaker 1 (49:06):
The mental weight, the mental weight of parentage is extinct.
And I did not. I did not really realize that.
Now me neither, Yeah, because two by myself, I mean,
if you're not thinking about one you're thinking together.
Speaker 2 (49:20):
But you're also you've also given them each other. I
have AI, and having a sister is the best.
Speaker 1 (49:26):
And I didn't. I was single child, and that's part
of why I did it the best.
Speaker 2 (49:30):
An only child too, And so she was so thrilled
to be able to have siblings because.
Speaker 1 (49:36):
Talk about the book that you wrote with your mom.
Speaker 2 (49:40):
With my sister, actually with my sister, which is exactly
what I'm saying. But the amazing there's this article that
called Frank Bruni. It's by Frank Brune in the New
York Times, called the Gift of a Sibling. And yeah,
Barbara and I, like we just adore each other. And
it's called Love Comes First, and it's about that parental
feeling of like it's called I loved you First.
Speaker 1 (50:00):
I just made up the title, but you know that
feeling of.
Speaker 2 (50:06):
Having a child and thinking like, oh my gosh, like
the amount of love is so infinite. And I think
all humans have that, absolutely, that possibility.
Speaker 1 (50:17):
And I think they have it, you know, whether it's
their own child or other children, or their whatever is
their creation exactly. But I do love those books. We
have a book about adoption that I believe is called
something No, I can't remember. It's like a baby version
about like where love comes from, just like the love
(50:40):
is there and then I had to find you. Yeah,
which I think is great, whether you're having the baby
in the traditional sense or adopting the baby, because I
do feel like that's true, you know, like there's a
space in you that opens and then is filled by
that child, and then it's way more than you expected. Totally, yes,
and then her sister, Yes, yes, it opens again. And
(51:03):
I don't think there is a limit really, and I
know certainly I was a godmother before I was a mother,
and my goddaughter Arden, who I love so much, who
i'd love to have on the show one day, because
I won't have like many generations, right, you know I was,
I was Auntie and Andie's great. Oh yeah, so much time.
Speaker 2 (51:18):
It is important, yes, like really an important.
Speaker 1 (51:21):
Role for because it's a different role and they can
go to you with other things, and you provide a
different kind of a safety zone than their own parents.
Speaker 2 (51:30):
In this world, and particularly now, I feel like we
need as much love, yeah, to go around.
Speaker 1 (51:35):
No joke, this is true, This is true. Well, I
can't wait to get your book. Where can I.
Speaker 2 (51:40):
Get your book, I'm like, you can get it at
your indie bookstore, and I apologize.
Speaker 1 (51:46):
That's okay. I love the indie bookstore. I have a
good one in Brown I go to Yeah local indie
me too, me too cool, so important for communities, I
know for sure. And also you can find really unique
things now, which is so nice. It's nice to just
browse in the bookstore like the olden days. Yes, well
you are joy, thank you, thank you for I loved here.
(52:08):
That was so funisode. I know, I know, And it's
so trippy how related it all is, and how many
conversations you could have. This could have been a twelve
hour podcast.
Host
Kristin Davis
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