February 17, 2025 • 45 mins
Was Skipper actually an early version of Steve?
Timothy Olyphant is a hot hot hot twenty something in this episode but is Carrie “justified” to be over it after seeing that apartment?
And, are roommates a dealbreaker?
Find out why Charlotte is so ahead of her time.
Plus, inside secrets on Sex and the City show locations and walking 48 blocks in Manolos.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know are you
a Charlotte? Hi? Hi, everybody, welcome back to Are You
a Charlotte. Today we're going to talk about episode one
oh four. It's in season one and it's called Valley
of the twenty something Guys. And I love this episode
(00:22):
so much. And I have a fantastic guest with me today.
His name is blakely Thornton. He's a super fan and
I love to follow him on Instagram. He's very funny
and TikTok and he is his how he's known is
your internet's mean best friend, which I find hysterical because
I don't really perceive you as mean.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
I don't either, Like honestly, that was a headline that
Hunger magazine gave me when I was like, oh wow,
this is my first and friends of like speaking as
yourself in like, oh that's what That's what you got
from that?
Speaker 2 (00:52):
That's super interesting, okay, because I personally would not just
describe you as that way though. What I do love
so much about you anythings, First of all, super smart,
extremely insightful, very funny, but also you just say it
like how you see it, and there's not a lot
of kind of layers or nonsense. You're not trying to
please anybody, and that's very refreshing and wonderful.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Brands. I call it. See something, say something, I'm like, what, oh,
all right.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
I love it. I love it.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
That's what we need at this time, I think in
internet land because like, to me, you're not mean, You're
just honest.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Yeah, I'm like, I think there's no value. I always say, like,
there's no value in not calling the thing the thing,
because I'm like, what are we getting out of it?
That's how we got here, we were all it's okay,
let's use you phemisms like well now.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Right right right.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
But also I feel like that created this land where
like people could be mean and because they were saying
things kind of like honestly people are like amazing when
in fact, no, not really, they're really mean, you know.
But also I think just the joy of people speaking freely,
people respond to that.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
M hm.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
You know.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
I think you're trying to I try to like infuse
some joy into it, like alowd you do? Yes? Funny
you do you do?
Speaker 2 (02:10):
My thirteen year old love zoo, oh thank you. I
know she doesn't have Instagram so I have to show her.
So I pick and choose based on the subject matter,
you know, And she was like out of everyone I've had,
she was like, it was so cute, it was so
so cute. So anyway, she wish she was here. She
(02:31):
wanted to skip school. But when I told her you're
on zoom, she was like, oh, okay, but she will
be listening.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Yeah, So hi, Gemma, you're listening.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Hello, Hello, Gemma. A pleasure, A pleasure to meet you
through the internet.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
There you go, one day, one day in person, one
day person.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
All right, this is so exciting because I am really
really curious what you're going to be saying, and I
really don't know.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
So let me just say that to everybody.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
It's not like we we have had no contact other
than me following him basically, and we do no I think,
you know Molly right, you know our costume designer or dance.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
We visited the whole archive in Queens like for me
is a young little like Elgibillennial gay boy. I was like,
I have I remember these moments because I'm much more
familiar with the series than I should be, Like, I
remember the first episode I saw was I think, like
season one, the last like, well, you guys are the
Hamptons and like Carrie finds out bigxating someone else, she's
on the cowboy hat on the Oh. Yeah, I was
(03:26):
a good one in seventh grade. But for some reason,
like me and all my straight football friends, like it
was so I didn't know Sex and the City was
even like a gay thing, but like we watch it
together everything. I watched the series finale, we all were
like shut up, turned off basketball and watched the Carry
in Paris part two episode and always men are married
with children. I don't know how I feel like young
(03:48):
boys like don't have that learn misogyny yet, but like
Sex and the City, Sex and the City and the
OC and I went to like an all boys prep school,
was like wow, that was the show?
Speaker 1 (03:58):
No way, okay.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
This year like breaking new ground in terms of my
perception of who was watching the show, because I had
no idea that was happening either.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
Well, I don't think it should have been like if
our parents are kind of handling it like we were twelve,
like what is that tasting spunk? And it's like a
bunch of like teenage boys.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Valid question, really valid question, But I don't think that's
a bad thing. No, right, like that might have been educational.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
I think it was very I think honestly, all the
guys that watched it like were better with their girlfriends
because they kind of had a more advanced I love that.
And what the female experience was, Oh my god, okay,
I like, oh, they kind of had the inside tracks.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
That's amazing. That's amazing and wonderful.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
I mean whenever men, like there was a time when
it was predominantly women would talk to us like.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Oh, we love it. Then sometimes men would.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Be like, oh, you know, my girlfriend, you know, makes
me watch it, and we.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Were like that's okay, cool.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
However, you know, and we were always like secretly like
that's great. You know, thank god the girlfriend's making me
watch it, because that's gonna help, you know, that's going
to help the meeting of you know, the the the
sexes over the divide, the great Divide.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
So I'm excited to hear.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
But you were in seventh grade, so that that is
really interesting.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
Okay, yes, I should I should thought it been again,
it was my my I think the series finale aired
like the fall of my like this fall of my
senior year in high school. I think it was like Wow,
November two thousand and three, so like I remember that.
I rely wow cough Carrie. Yeah startek phone.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
I remember that too. What did you think of Orishna cough?
Speaker 2 (05:35):
And then well we're gonna go backwards in time, But
just curious because I've been hearing some interesting takes on Bristia.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Always interesting to see how you felt originally when you
see it and then going in rewatching it. I think
through both and just like that and then rewatching the
original show on Netflix. Everybody's kind of like contextualized differently, Yeah,
Barishna cough. Like I feel like I've dated men like
him that are like thoroughly I've dated a Parisian man
who had, you know, a lot of things and was
(06:02):
significantly older because I'm thirty nine, So I guess what
about Carrie's agency to the show? Right, I don't know.
I feel like he's interesting. He was never the end game.
I don't love how I feel like he was almost
like I'm looking for the word, not a gas lighter,
but almost like very much like a love bomber, and
then like abandoned.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Well, like to me, he's just super aloof like like
he makes mister Biggs seem like he's not a loof,
which is interesting comparison.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Mister Biggs like he's amazing. But then you go early,
mister Big, I'm like, this man is a he was
a boy before there was a word for it.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
I mean, is he Okay, so can you please please
define boy for me? Okay, because I'm confused.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
I think a boy is just like a man who
has a little bit of Peter Pan syndrome, has money,
but also kind of like he is consistent in his inconsistency.
And I find that is very big for Carrie. In
the first few seasons, he's like, let's go like even
this episode, let's go to drinks, drink thing, let's go
to this. That right for me, like just a man
(07:04):
that gives you red flags, but right after the red
flag is like an immediate excuse to keep you confused.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Okay, then I've totally totally get it. See I was
confused by the boy part. I thought this boy part
meant like like an unemployed you know, like boy, like
a pool boy.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
I don't know what I thought in my brain.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
A man who's in it to like keep you emotionally tethered.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Oh, Okay, well I know all aboustioning.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Like this show, you can go back to the episode,
but like even like the phones in episode in this episode, yeah,
I feel like I grew up on This is the
New York. I was promised and then didn't get because I.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Know, I'm really sorry. I feel that way for so
many people. But when they're.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Actually in the bar and there are multiple people on
a landline on an old fashioned phone, what is happening?
Speaker 3 (07:48):
I wanted to be I want to go back to that,
like like I want to go to there, like I
got the end of it. Like I don't even remember
Indy Sleeve's like twenty ten. It was right before everybody
had a phone on the camera on their phone.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Yeah, it was still kind of like a little bit
very different times.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
This is a club called dark Room, where like the
bouncer was a drug dealer and you'd see like the
whole cast of Gossip Girl and like you can't do
like I had like a fight with Sebastian standover or
a slice of pizza, like you can't have anymore.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
No, it's so sad.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
There's just there's surveillance everybody.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
No, you can't do nothing. I know, it's terrible.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
But when you see the bars, because I've been sober
a long time, right, so I wasn't really going out
except when we would film at these places. And I'm
not quite sure, especially in this particular episode value of
the twenty sething guys, I don't know where they are,
Like do those look like real bars to you?
Speaker 3 (08:39):
I feel like New York bars. There's a there's a
consistency where there's always kind of like a hook, whether
it's like you know, I feel like Samantha through the
PR lens, Like I remember when you guys like there's bed,
there's yes, sushi, there's you know, yeah, yeah, there's all
those things. And I feel like for me, like that
bar could come back now because I feel like there's
a certain like movement from especially from like gen Z
(09:00):
in people minds that are just tired of it. Like
I would go to a bar where like you had
to check your phone at the door and if you
needed something there were literal like rotary.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Phones, which would be amazing. I would go, we should
open that you see.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
The hottest club and like trybeca for like a year.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
You know, it would be fantastic. I agree, it would
be fantastic.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
I mean my feeling now And I don't know if
this is shaped by where we film for and just
like that, because when we came back to do and
just like that, it was post COVID, like just barely
post COVID, right, so anywhere wanted us Like it was
shocking to us because it used to be that we'd
have to kind of beg and plead and go through
all these you know, hoops and pay huge amounts of
money to get places because they were like, we don't
(09:40):
know who you guys are in the beginning, right, But
now the restaurants in the bars.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Were like please please come, you know.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
So we're filming it Daniel, Like we never could have
gotten into Daniel, you know, it's crazy.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
So we're filming it.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Extremely posh, extremely beautiful places not where we used to
film you know.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Well now also with the full circleness of like again
like of Sex and the city of the movies. Even
just like that, I feel like people who run these
places have to be firmly aware of the cachet they
get by you going there. So it's like, yeah, thank god,
three sixty experience or one eighty for you guys at
being like from like nineteen ninety eight to like twenty
twenty four being like, oh, please come film at our hotel,
(10:20):
use the penthouse, do whatever you want, like set on fire.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Yeah, it's really nice. It's really nice. It's a nice difference.
But sometimes I wonder, like, are we just elevated now
to a point of almost like unobtainable? Whereas when you
see the bars, especially that one, you know, the one
where she she goes to see Big to have the
thing that drinks.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
You forty eight blocks and formant that I have a
problem with that. Okay, someone who's worn low nobody's walking.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
She totally does.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
And there is a theme okay, because you remember after
Big Dies she walks like eighty blocks.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
She would totally do this, Sir, Jessica can totally do this.
It's insane.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Forty eight blocks in Manolo's. I can't walk forty eight
blocks and driving loafers, I know.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
I mean, I will say this, our feet have suffered.
Our feet, all of us collectively are you know, pretty
much a mess. Like we could go to any podietrist
at any time and they'd be like, oh my god,
you know, but at the time, like Sarah can run
on the cobblestones. I mean she is like like an athlete.
Okay in the heels.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
That line threw me. I was like forty eight blocks.
I know I would have gotten in the cab, run out,
not paid, and had the twenty year old man, I
know my cabs with the.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
Cash to because she's like, I left my cash. It's
such a different world.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
She's like, I left my when don't you left your cab?
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Yeah, she got the cash.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Get No, there was no uber, there was no you
didn't even pay cabs with credit card. I still when
I get in a cab, I'm like, do I have cash?
Speaker 1 (11:53):
And then like no, wait a minute.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
It's five.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
World really weird, weird. Some establishments don't take it. I'm like,
you don't take American money? Is this legal?
Speaker 1 (12:03):
I know, I know.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
It's very discombobulating.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
Rid of cash. Now, I'm like, when I have cash,
I'm like, I need to find a place that takes it,
because many a thing doesn't. I know it.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
It's troubling.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
So wait, let's go back to the episode because it's
kind of fun because it is like a time machine, right,
this particular one. The first season in general, and especially
this particular one. So tell me when did you personally
come to New York City.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
I personally came to New York City in the fall
of two thousand and nine, so.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Okay, so way later, way later.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
When this episode originally aired, I was twelve years old.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
So wow, wow, wow wow, because for me.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
Timothy Oliphant is justified. And I'm like, right, oh, and
he isn't he amazing? He's the young and in this
would you have die?
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Isn't he's like incredible?
Speaker 3 (13:04):
Yeah? He would have been twenty seven twenty eight when
this episode was filmed. I'm like, wait, Timothy afit was
in his twenties thirty, Like, he's aged very well, so
good job too.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
I mean, right with that hair now, my god, but listen,
I really was like at the time, I was.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
Like that guy, Oh god, that guy.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
Yeah, way, yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
He was already married, ye know, he was, yes, yes,
yes for him adorably. I think he already had a
bunch of kids even, And I was like, wow, you're
so fascinating and obviously so incredibly talented, and you remember
when Like I mean, if I were her, I would
totally pick him and I would just work on the apartment.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
I would just be like, let me do the apartment.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
That was interesting to me because again, I feel like
I'm around. It's interesting again watching now at the age
that you guys kind of were when this series. For me. Yeah,
so for me, like I've had that recent experience where
I've like gone on a date with like a twenty
five twenty six year old and like waking up in
his apartment the next day and he had like I'm
talking like mattress on the floor. I was like wait, wait, wait,
(14:00):
I thought you said a low slung bed, and like
in the light of day, you're like whoa. I'm like,
is this bed in the living Do you have a roommate?
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Sir?
Speaker 3 (14:07):
I was like, oh no, no.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
No, but what happened? Were you like, no, I'm out
of here.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Oh. I was like. We woke up and I was like,
let me order breakfast because I was hungry and now
we have like uber eats, so I was like, okay,
let me and he was so thankful that I ordered
him breakfast. I was like that's odd, which was very sweet,
but I'm like, this is like eleven dollars, like you know,
twenty bucks. Okay, I have any like do you have
any like sparkling water like, which was like, oh, that
made a mistake. Then I like look around. I'm like,
(14:34):
this bedroom's kind of big, and I realized there was
just a mattress in the living room. Wow, And I
was like, oh, it's a big studio okay. And then
in like but then there's another I'm like, oh you
have a roommate. Oh, so like I got this stuff
like ate my breakfast. I was like, this has been sweet, sweetie,
Like you're doing great, sweetye Chris Janner and like kind
of like slowly backed up, never to see that.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Man, Oh I feel bad.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
It was like, but he I was just like we're
in different places in life, and like I just like
great person text. A couple of times afters I was like,
I'm I can't at thirty nine, I for the most
part cannot do roommates.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Roommates are definitely a problem for sure, But I mean
when I think back to this time in life, for
sure there were people who had roommates and that could
be problematic for sure, But it's also like, you know,
I do think in the episode there is like, first
of all, I don't know if you've listened to my podcast,
or whatever.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
I've not seen these episodes, Thank you so much. I've
not seen these episodes.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Since way back, right, And I in my mind really
thought that the first season was just like what like
all over the place, you know, and not really formed.
But now I'm looking back on it and I have
a whole new appreciation, Like it's not perfect by any means,
but it's all there, you know, it's all there, and it's.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
Characteristics are surprisingly like blunt in the beginning, even when
I saw when I think when you had that date
come to the bar, and they were like it was
he was the perfect guy for Charlotte, Like he had money,
manners and like a job or something, and I was like,
this is the original, Like have you heard that new
Like it's like a meme like looking for a man
in Finance six fives, Like I'm like, Charlotte's that original girl,
(16:17):
Like Charlotte would have been true saying that that's so true,
that's so true, thirty years ahead of time. I'm like,
Charlotte was the original, like so true.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
And I was so criticized at the time. I don't
mean me, I mean Charlotte, Like everyone's like she is
so boring she's so boring and I was like, yeah,
just wait, which you know, I'm just happy it worked
out right. But like at the time, everyone thought that
the other three were so much more interesting and obviously
very powerful, and I was much more kind of traditional.
But now I think people are rediscovering these things and
(16:46):
talking more openly about these things.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
I think maybe exactly.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
I feel like it's interating because the zeitgeist. I feel
like you can you can almost tell where the cultural
zeitgeist is by which one of your characters they favor,
and it almost like swings like this in a circle,
because like everyone hated Miranda and then She'sy's like wait wait,
having a job in some sense and like dressing and
why I sell actually amazing that everybody hates Charlotte, and
it's like, actually, wait, like liking love and wanting something,
(17:13):
but actually Charlotte's almost like very secretly like bohemian and
aware as it moves forward, or like everybody hates Carrie
and then it's like it's like whatever, she's like making choices.
Everybody hates Samantha just depending on where the zeit I
says in relation to women. Yeah, it like swings back
and forth. To all of you, because I've always stood
very strong and like I'm a Miranda. I like her.
(17:36):
I find my but everybody says different, but I find myself.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Wait what does everyone say?
Speaker 3 (17:42):
Everyone obviously leans me towards probably a Samantha in terms
of like imagery and because I curse and I'm very
sex positive. But for me, I'm just like actually, like
I like having a job, I like stability, Like men
are very much like secondary to me doing what I
want to do.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
I got it, but you don't practical.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
Yeah, you don't complete me. But if you're an additive,
that's good. And I feel like from Skipper to Steve,
you know the s.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
S A, Yes, there are a lot of guys in
between there.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
Like Skipper is the original Steve, Like Skipper Skipper fell
so Steve could walk.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
That's a good point.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
That's a good point, though, Skipper, Skipper, when I look
back at this, is hysterical in a way that I
just didn't even really perceive it all in the beginning.
You know, he's like a like a flailing you know.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
Out laughing because because in the season when you guys
still had the like the talk to camera with the people,
so the basketball scene in this just threw me back
to the nineties so hard because they were just like, oh,
they filmed this like a Nike commercial. It's like, Bros,
are I have never seen white men in their twenties
(18:53):
in the park.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Actually in the guge they're in the cage.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
Like like that's like a real thing. But I'm just like, oh,
women like like skippers there.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Trying to make a basket.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
Oh my god, I care walking to gumb like I
know this for facts about that character.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
And also I didn't realize but I saw it again
when I watched that. The guys in the bar in
the twenty sevening bar when she goes back are the
same guys on the basketball, which is amazing, Like we
were thinking in such interesting.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Ways at the time. But they do say some crazy.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Things, like they say like that kid who's seventeen says smarty.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
It was, or like they remind me of my mom
did what That's disgusting, Like why would you say to.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Like And this is when we're like I feel as
a show that we're just trying to be like aggressively
non judgmental, do you know what I mean? Like we're
just like whatever, these dudes say, we're not going to
judge them, whereas when I look at them, I'm like
they're awful.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Oh yeah, right, awful.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
The nineties like oh minute and whatever, I'm like, these
are horrible human beings, right, And that was the dating pool,
but that was also like it's an it's like it's
representative of the culture at the time. Yeah, it really
is just the amount of times that interestingly left even
like I remember the Chris Rock Show in two thousand.
You guys had like just been on the cover of
(20:12):
something together, and it was like literally some like white
male pundit like actively calling you guys horse.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
It was so show this is what it was like.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
I was like, wait, what I like, I remember being
like fifteen, like nineteen eight, nineteen thousand.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Was it Bill O'Reilly?
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Yes, because Bill O'Reilly came up to me in an
event and he said, you know, he's really tall, right,
and he said, if I ever see Darren Starr, I'm
going to punch him in the face.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
And I was like, huh. I was just like, what's happening.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
And he goes, I can't believe what he makes you
guys do, and I was like, you know, we really
love our show, like we're.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Fine, We're fine, thank you, sir. You know it pretty confused.
He was like aggressively critical.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
That's such a micro cause culture though, like a strength
crazy misogynist, like actually like verbally assaulting you about how
they're going to help you, and you're like, I'm good.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
I know, and then like what happens with him happens
with him? I mean, it's fascinating, right, it's fascinating.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
It's very fascinating coming from inside the house.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Bill, So let me ask you this though, Let's talk
about Big and Carrie because I need like outside interpretation
because for me, also, I'm looking back on it and
I am kind of like amazed and confused a little
bit about it. Like I wasn't thinking objectively at all
about it at the time. I fully understood that they
(21:35):
had chemistry and that was really what mattered or whatever.
And also I think he looks a little sad, you know,
like I part of me I just want to take
care of him. But I mean, this is me slash
Charlotte obviously, but like I had forgotten the very slow
kind of it was dance.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
They do a very slow burn. It's very interesting and
I feel like that whole kind of like non committal again,
like man boy, because for me, like I feel like
in twenty twenty five, you're a manning forties who's like
divorced or like or makes money. It's like you need
to like be able to be in tune with your
feelings and say I like you, this is a date.
Like that's a low bar for sure. He was just like, oh,
(22:10):
it's a drinks thing. Oh and there really was a
true cat and mouse even like when his friend came ew,
I was like, oh, but I love that carry did that.
She was like goodbye, smart? Are you kidding me?
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Like, I know she's so smart.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
But for a man in his forties to pull that
is right, is like insane. And I'm like, it's probably
more common than we would think, but.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Like, oh, I think so, I think men do all
kind of weird. But I also think that the person
that's based on was a very very powerful person in
New York in the nineties, right, So we knew that
and it was written in there. And I don't know
when you're watching it if you can really tell, but
you know, when men are at a certain level of
money and power structure, they're just like I can do
(22:56):
whatever I want to do, and you're going to follow along,
lady friend, because you're lucky, you know. But she's like, no,
I'm not going to do that. Here's my money, buys
you some drinks. But she's charming about it, you know,
like she's got game.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
I think that also might have been like when I
look back on a very like the look on his
face when when when view through the lens of their
entire relationship. I think that might have been the moment
where he decided to take her seriously because it was
actually an expression of self worth. I feel like if
Carrie stays through that date, like that's actually a really
pivotal moment. If she's like, cool, I'll sit here with
(23:30):
your divorced friend while he hits on people ew, and
you're very much like that's a very clear but like
it's a tale of what you will and will not accept.
And for her to be like, oh, you're with your friend.
I'm not going to tell you how stupid this is.
I'm not trying to tell you how insens this makes me.
I'm gonna leave very casually with a smile by your
(23:50):
drink and let you figure out how dumb you look
right now, right moment.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Where she's amazing, Y's amazing, like.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
You know what, and she's like and you can hear
her and have like, am I confused? But like it's
actually like we're getting the vulnerability of that moment as
like the audience and the voiceover, but when he's getting
as a woman being like nothing like in the most easy, breezy,
beautiful yes, yes, wait, okay, I think like that in
(24:19):
my mind when I watched it back yesterday, it was like,
that's the moment I think he kind of like fell
in love or the game became real because the first
three episodes, he's an idea, he's a nickname, playing with her.
Miranda can't figure it out, and she was number one
litigation you know.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
I love that.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
Yeah, And then she's like no, thank you, and he's like, okay, cool.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Then they see each other again and then she's walking
away and she's like, oh, would have been so cool
if I didn't look back.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
She's also so good.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
But I mean the other thing that I think when
I'm looking at it is like their chemistry is so strong.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
Do you think that I definitely, I think they were
definitely like whatever version of quote unquote. Soul makes though
are like when I look at it now and at
my age through it, like I think the women are
each other's soulmates and the men are added it to
their lives. I think it's actually a love story between
four women in reality, Like so it's an expression of
platonic love, which makes the sex and the city ironic
aspect of it. But their chemistry is super strong as
(25:14):
like sures as characters, you know, there's something where like
even the way he just keeps orbiting her and the
opening like we saw brisk we saw her this and
then we decided to like it made me miss the
meet cute because nowadays it's like somebody's on Tender or Instagram.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Yeah no, I know, we don't even have you really
yeah yeah, I mean nearly rom coms are making now
are like older women younger men, which I'm so fascinated by,
so fascinated by.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Okay, let's talk for a.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Second about Charlotte, because I feel this is the first
good storyline that Charlotte gets, and I remember it all
so clearly. I remember literally dying when we had to
do the read through, literally dying when I first read
the script, like oh, my god, I've been wanting a
storyline and now this is it.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
Yeah, I'm to go. I mean, honestly hyper realistic and
to be real, especially as a gay man, timeless.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
And I mean, if you think about it now, like
Nikki Glazer stands up in her sick on, you know,
stand up, there's a whole section on it where she
gives like instructions, right, but like back then, you didn't
say those words.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
Oh no, that was crazy, and she's just like you,
let's do it the regular way, and like that's crazy.
Like again, you guys are just broaching topics that have
become like really trailblazing, because again, I feel like just
dating in regards to anal sex is timeless, universal, No,
it knows no to wrap.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
It was so funny that we're even saying this, Like
it never would have crossed my mind at the time.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
I just thought like, wow, I'm gonna.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
Have to just get through this because I need a
storyline and I need them to write for Charlotte. And
like when when I was with Michael Patrick on the
podcast and we talk about he remembers us at the
read through because every episode still we do like an
old fashioned read through so that he can hear it.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
And you have to really perform, like you have to
say it loud. You can't just like mumble in your
little microphone.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
You have to like hit those jokes or hey, we'll
cut them right. It's like cutthroat type read through, right.
I try to explain this to my young pretend children,
like please be louder at the read through so that.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
Your stuff doesn't get cut.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
Yeah, you know, and they're like, what but anyway, back then,
we couldn't get through it.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
We couldn't get through the four of us.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
We're like falling off our chairs, you know, which has
happened once since then.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
What I had to say.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Like some crazy thing to Harry and then just like that,
I can't even remember what it is. I blocked it out,
but like the four of us sometimes just get to
laugh so hard. So when we went to film in
the really really old cab, like there are some old
cars in the show, but like this cab was like
nineteen seventy five.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
I read around that scene because I was like, are
they the horse drawn carriage? I'd like them back? I don't.
I what is that?
Speaker 4 (28:02):
Is an old old cab that had enough room for
all four of us, and the DP and the director
are in the front seat with the handheld camera perched
on the back of the front seat, which is.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
A you know, like bankeet or whatever you would call
it in a car.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
Right. I think it reminded me of Taxicab Confessions. Yes,
that might have been airing at the same time, but
I think it was like, this feels like Taxi Cab Confessions.
Have been watching and should not remember based.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
On my I had forgotten about that. That was a
good thing. That was fascinating. It was like that, so
and that guy who plays a cab driver so great.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
So our director and our DP are there, they're like
hiding under the camera and then they'd like, you know,
put their heads up and give us a note, and
then we would have to do we would have to
go back around to do each take so that the
background matched, which is funny because you can't really see anything.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
But like, these are the things that we took seriously.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
So I never said the words, the real words I'm
supposed to say until the take that we're rolling, because
I was just mortified. All right, So we start, we start,
we're doing this. It's like they're like this is it.
You know we're gonna do it. So we go to
do it. I can't say the words. I got my
line because I can't say the words. And I was
so embarrassed because then we had to go around the
(29:18):
whole of the time. It's her Justa's like, it's okay,
it's okay, it'll be okay, you can do it.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
You can do it.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
And then of course we pick up each one and
my reaction when she's like, we're gonna go to you
know whatever Miranda's addresses and I'm like no.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
And then they're like, we're going to Samandag and I'm
like no. Like it's very funny and very Charlotte, you know,
I mean it.
Speaker 3 (29:37):
Is it very much was I think it was just
it was very Charlotte like. And again Charlotte has some
of the more interesting lines and also just ends up
her arc is interesting because I feel like you were
all such three sixty human beings but were packaged in
very palatable archetypes for the time.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Yeah, I mean we're only three sixty beings because of
our writers working so hard over and you know, we
had Michael Patrick, but so many women, and.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
I feel like it, like everything kind of like slowly
exposed itself when they're giving you archetypes, and obviously those
archetypes have lasted for decades now through like you know
girls or like other Michael Patrick King shows like like
a Younger or like a show like you Know it's
one girl, two guys, and then like the actual world
(30:25):
around her ends up being more important than those men,
which is a very interesting thing that I've seen in
like in like those kind of Darren Star Michael Patrick, etc.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Right, right, right, No, that's a good point.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
That's a good point of Twilight or Hunger Games.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
She in the City Code where it's like which guy
do I choose? And like my friends actually helped me
with that, Like.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
That's so interesting.
Speaker 3 (30:44):
I never thought of that true line. But yeah, Charlotte,
Charlotte's been dealing with everything, but she deals with everything
through I feel like a bohemian Greenwich lens. That's what
I call it. Like she was raised in Greenwich. Those
are her mores, and those what she's that's what she's
been told to like. But I feel like Charlotte is
actually a character through the tire series that just slowly
becomes more herself to the point where you get to
(31:05):
like and just like that and she's like hyperbohemian and
like call and like buying her kid's condoms. Like that's
like that.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
I know, it's so interesting.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
I want to man, She's like, Okay, do it in
the house. Don't get pregned.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
I know it's so it's so crazy, But I do
think that's like a very relatable trajectory, you know what
I mean, Like you know you kind of like like
that's how Also, I think her friends have influenced her,
you know, because people are still like, well, why were
you friends with them in the beginning? I'm like what,
why would I be? Because she wants to be them,
you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
Or even the episode, there was an later episode I
think where after she maybe gets divorced or she's with Trey,
where she's like goes back to the girls with the
GRD edge and she's like, I hate these bitches.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
She realizes she's the Samantha of that.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
She's sheds funny about sex and then she's like, wait,
these girls suck, like right.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
That episode is how I ended up at the Jacques
Moose show in Nice.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
Oh what I remember that? I literally Yeah, he had
a picture.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Simone had a picture of me with you know, my
young self in like a tank top with a sweater tide,
like so preppy, and that was the inspiration you wanted
me to wear that.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
I'm like, babe, it's so many years ago, I can't
wear that tank top. He was like no, he was
so sweet.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
It's like just maybe a shirt, you know, but that
was his whole inspiration, which I was like, how random,
but also how incredibly flattering.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
Yeah, I mean, that's so funny that, like you guys
have been living these moments or moments that you might
have forgotten, are such cannon or like you know, like
personality defining things for now a new generation of creatives
that like you're not working with like that, which is
amazing interesting.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
We would never have it, never, never would have entered
our mind, you know, like at this point still you know,
this aired in nineteen ninety eight, right, which is hysterical.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Nothing had aired yet before this first season.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
We filmed the whole first season without anything on the air,
and no one knew what we were so we weren't
borrowing clothes at this point, like like we were hoping
one day maybe we could borrow some clothes, you know,
from somebody, like none of that had happened, you know,
it was a different world.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
But I have another thing I want to tell you about.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
So, you know, the scene after the cab scene, and
I go back to the guy who's played by Josh Stenberg,
who's a great actor, Like, did you watch Fleischman is
in trouble?
Speaker 1 (33:19):
Is that what it's called? Flesh is in trouble?
Speaker 3 (33:21):
I did.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
He's on there. He's really scary.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
He's a clear new gus guy, right.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
I know, it was so good, so good. He's a
great actor. He's been in so many things. I should
have looked this up so I could list his things.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
But he's great. And he was that guy, the guy.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
Who wanted me to do the thing I didn't want
to do, which I'm just not going to say. So
we went we filmed that scene. I still have that
shiny blouse. I still have all these clothes from back then,
which is kind of funny because they're so boring, but
I still have them.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
And we filmed that scene. And I had been in.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
Acting class for like twenty years at this point, right
before before the show you know, got going so to
me in acting class. They're always talking about high stakes,
high stakes, So I'm thinking about how much she wants
to get married, how this guy is so perfect but
he wants me to do this thing, and how upsetting.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
That would be. Whatever, So I'm very emotional.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
Darren came to me and said, you know, babe, we've
got to refilm that. And I'm like, what, Like, I
think it's the only time in my life I've had
to reshoot a scene based on my performance. And he said, listen,
you know this is just one guy. There's another guy
around the corner.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
And I was like, what what?
Speaker 2 (34:25):
Like to me, I did not understand that, Like, as
a human being, I didn't understand that, and I didn't
understand that from acting perspective. But also I didn't really
know these girls yet, Like there are real girls that
they were based on. I don't know about that, you
know what I'm saying. So I was like, oh god,
there's another guy around the corner.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
Really for Charlotte, like this is what she thinks.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
And he's like, yes, we've got to reshoot this.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
I'm like, okay, So we did.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
It's the only scene, thank god, in my career, I know,
because he did not want me to have the high stakes,
which I had never really been told like, don't have
high stakes.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (35:00):
I mean that also for the time period, that scene
is groundbreaking one.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
I'm glad and too.
Speaker 3 (35:03):
I wanted to say, like, also for me rewatching the series,
it's so interesting and I'm not sure if you've had
a guest say this yet. How much almost like my
like coming out is coded with watching you guys date
because like, as a kid, I'm like sitting here watching
all this these episodes and like you're seeing sex for
the first time, and I read like now it's like
triggering me. Watching the first season, I'm like, oh, this
(35:25):
is when I first realized I was attracted to do that.
Wasn't saying anything, but I was like, wow, like that
guy's hut okay. I was like, I'm also looking for
me on that six five and finance, so I was like,
I'd be like, I feel like Sex and the City
kind of like taught me I was gay before I
was even gay. Because especially for me, like Samantha's sex
(35:46):
scenes it very much like I remember I literally remember
being thirteen and watching I have sex with that fireman
and the yeah, and the camera spinning around, and I
was like, yeah, that was good in his butt.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
Glad we could be of help, you know.
Speaker 3 (35:59):
So there's so many there's so many levels. I feel
like everybody like, I'm sure you hate hearing people say like, oh,
we grew up with you because we're still like experiencing it.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
Like, Noah, I don't mind.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
I still need my LTW Charlotte spinoff. I would like,
I just want you guys as crazy like Spence moms
going and doing things like.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
That's very great. Oh, you're gonna love the first episode.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
Then when we would come back, I'm on a little
adventure me and LTW.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
We do have a good time. We do have a
good time.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
And also, I personally not that I'm ever wanting anyone
to spend anything off from us. I always want to
be there, right, But like LTW could actually just have
her own spinoff because her whole family is so fascinating.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
I've enjoyed the whole thing. I'm also like, I think
I've heard you guys talking on like one of the
last episodes about like the crazy reaction to like Miranda,
But I'm like, that's what happens, guys. Thank you friends
that make crazy decisions and right like them and they
are the catalyst for your life, even like Charlotte, when
I remember when Miranda first gets with Chay and you're
(37:02):
the picnic and you're like, huh, so explain what is
what is happening with you? But I think that's what
I would like. Again, that's such Charlotte in that growth,
calling the thing the thing. Like Carrie will be petty,
She'll still make a punge, but she's not. Carrie is
not going to cut through and be like what the
fuck is going on?
Speaker 1 (37:20):
It's true, But can I tell you about that scene?
Speaker 2 (37:22):
So Miranda, sorry Cynthia was directing that episode, which is
so crazy to remember, right, so she's in it.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
It's a big episode. She's also directing it. So when I.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
Read that scene, I thought that Charlotte was being like
kind of supportive but gently questioning, you know, like how
she does sometimes like are you sure we get there?
And Michael Patrick's like yell at her. I'm like what
what We're down at Battery Park And He's like yell
at her.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
I'm like, hah okay, yell at her. I'm so scared.
Speaker 3 (37:53):
She looks so.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
Mad, like she looks so mad at me, you know,
and you know we have lost all boundaries between our
personal and professional selves, right. He's like, no, you gott
to yell at her because this is shocking, and I'm like,
you're You're right, I guess. I mean, I thought it
was all very exciting, but that has more to do
with me.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
I guess right that she took this big leap. You know.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
Obviously not everybody feels that way, and people are still
have very strong.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
Feelings about it, very strong strong, it's crazy.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
But I also take that as a compliment, like we're
thirty years later almost, and people have strong feelings.
Speaker 3 (38:27):
How lou Yah people do feel I think it's got
to be interesting for you almost, like and well, I'm
sure we'll discuss it the later date. I'm sure I'll
meet you at some point in this life.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
Yeah, you got to come to the set, babe.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
People feeling like they have ownership over you guys and
what you do or like yeah, like even like in
the fan reactions like even I'll admit the first is
of it, and just like that, I was like, well,
I'm like, wait, actually it's been twenty something years, Like
they're going to be different people there's going to be
to feel relationships change or like if I'm looking, I'm
also people are often looking for I think people don't
(38:58):
like change, and I think, yeah, all they have when
you guys sign off, whether it was two thousand and
three or the end of the second movie, is like
their idea of what's happened to you, Yeah that's different.
Instead of like reconciling it, they're like, no, be what
you were two thousand and three.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
I know, I know, I feel bad, But the truth
is if we were what we were in two thousand
and three, nobody would want to see that exactly.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
That would be sad, you know.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
You know, yeah, No, we had to create something new,
and we're just really lucky that we even get to
do it in this crazy world that we're living in.
You know what I'm saying, Like we were lucky in
the beginning because in the beginning we were old.
Speaker 1 (39:36):
You know.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
That's what's also so funny when you rewatch, like we
look like little, tiny children, but we were over thirty,
which was like shocking, right that there'd be a show
where a bunch of thirty somethings were like stomping around
New York at high heels. People were like, what, like
it like was mind blowing, but it's so funny.
Speaker 3 (39:53):
How Like honestly, again, it is kind of universal because
I've had when I go back and look at it
and kind of like that's that episode triggered my memory
of the rest of the seasons, Like I've had a
lot of the things that happened to you happened to me,
Like I've had my friends have kids now and I
went in and I had I had a Chanel, a
blood red Chanell boy bag and and then one of
the little kids spilled yogurt on it. And I was like, no,
(40:17):
like I've never wanted to like throat punch a four
year old. But and like one of the one of
the moms is like, well, you know, it wasn't even
it wasn't the mom who's throwing the party was my friend,
but it was was the mom with the girl that
did it, who was very badly behaves like well, you know,
we don't expend money on like things like that, And
I'm like, bitch you, oh god, you live in Brentwood.
(40:38):
Your house is eight million American dollars, like totally, you know,
I'm gonna go light your tesla on fire and see
how you feel about that. So I feel like that
was like the carry Shoe episode where it's like, don't
tell judge me and my life or like what I want.
And I also think almost being like a gay man
is like being a single gay woman in the nineties,
is like people are used to it, like they're used
(40:58):
to the idea of you will just yeah, very strange
ways that you're like, excuse me, I'm just here existing
even like soueid like I don't want kids. I like kids,
Do I want? No? Do I want them? Not? Right right?
I think that's very similar to what all of your
characters are going through in different capacities, whether it's you know,
Samantha being like no, Carrie kind of evolving with it,
(41:19):
Charlotte being like this is the goal right right, right right,
and you know Marina just kind of having had one
like oh, well, well here we go. Whoo Now I
gotta raise a kid. Now I have a brain totally.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
And I also think, like Michael Patrick talked about, he
really felt at the time that he came nineteen ninety seven,
you know that being a gay man, like he he
felt the other in the way that we single women
at the time felt the other. But I still feel
like it's not that different now in a lot of ways, I.
Speaker 3 (41:48):
Think it's like it's a very similar energy you get,
and I feel like it's the energy of just basically
like straight men not understanding you and looking at the
entire world through their purview and being like, oh, you
don't want this. It's almos like straightmen, or like like
Miranda Precy, like everybody wants to be us and we're like, no,
we don't.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
Totally. Yes, it is like that. I feel like that
as a single woman.
Speaker 2 (42:10):
Yes, yes, And people are like, but why why, And
I'm like, oh my god, please stop asking me why.
Speaker 3 (42:16):
I am like to this day, like when people ask
the question like they think it's a compliment or like
I'll get it online or from friends or when on
a first date, how are you single? That's not Maybe
I was sick, Maybe I was not prioritizing romantic love.
Maybe I have standards, maybe I get maybe I get
a fair amount of love from my friends of thirty
years who maybe I want someone who's added to my life.
(42:38):
But like, but like you're acting as if pairing off
monogamously is the default is actually really really presumptuous and
really condescending, and I think, like, I think that's why
the spirit of the show continues on or like it
has been so similarly like forced in people's lives. It's
almost like you're getting four versions of like being yourself,
(43:00):
of like authentically being yourself and having friends that don't
judge you. Because I think, like seminal moments in all
the episodes, whether it's this one, whether it's the Carrie blowjob,
the FedEx guy, whether it's Charlotte getting mad about the pregnancy,
it's like those moments when you want to judge, but
they come back and be like, that was rude of
me to do that to you, Like, actually, your life
(43:20):
is different than mine. And I think that's why people
are so attached to these characters, because like it happens
in all the cycles of their lives, through divorces, through marriages,
through babes, through cancer, through coming out as non binary
and moving to LA You're just like, Okay, I'm gonna
I'm gonna question your decision making, but I'm not gonna
come in at like my shit doesn't stink. And I
(43:42):
like love that, and I think going back to this
episode you kind of like really feel it in a
similar way where again, like I'm gonna sand Tinto's down.
This is where Carrie and Big fall in love because
Carrie asserts her standards kind of Charlotte actually, when you
think about it, like deals with the wildest stuff the episode,
because even like for me, I was like, oh, like
(44:02):
oh wow, like Samanthia slept with a twenty year old
and like did it on your side? Like nineteen second
was a watch. She's like, we did it on our side,
And I'm like, so you rolled over this like Charlotte's
like dealing with butt sex and you're like, oh, I'm
crazy because I did it on my left shoulder. Like
(44:23):
you're right, all the true everyone is there with Charlotte
like dealing with bohemian through a more traditional lens, and like.
Speaker 2 (44:29):
You're right, I like this take likely. I'm down with it.
I'm going to write down that whole last thing you said.
I'm going to refer back to it, okay when I
get put on the spot.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
All right, thank you, thank you for being with us,
for having me. This has been You're amazing.
Speaker 2 (44:44):
Yes, good travels out there, and we want to see
you back here in La.
Speaker 3 (44:47):
Yes, I'll be back in La soon, I think, I
don't even know, sometime soon, two weeks.
Speaker 1 (44:52):
I know your jet setter, babe. I love it.
Hi.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know are you
a Charlotte? Hi? Hi, everybody, welcome back to Are You
a Charlotte. Today we're going to talk about episode one
oh four. It's in season one and it's called Valley
of the twenty something Guys. And I love this episode
(00:22):
so much. And I have a fantastic guest with me today.
His name is blakely Thornton. He's a super fan and
I love to follow him on Instagram. He's very funny
and TikTok and he is his how he's known is
your internet's mean best friend, which I find hysterical because
I don't really perceive you as mean.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
I don't either, Like honestly, that was a headline that
Hunger magazine gave me when I was like, oh wow,
this is my first and friends of like speaking as
yourself in like, oh that's what That's what you got
from that?
Speaker 2 (00:52):
That's super interesting, okay, because I personally would not just
describe you as that way though. What I do love
so much about you anythings, First of all, super smart,
extremely insightful, very funny, but also you just say it
like how you see it, and there's not a lot
of kind of layers or nonsense. You're not trying to
please anybody, and that's very refreshing and wonderful.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Brands. I call it. See something, say something, I'm like, what, oh,
all right.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
I love it. I love it.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
That's what we need at this time, I think in
internet land because like, to me, you're not mean, You're
just honest.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Yeah, I'm like, I think there's no value. I always say, like,
there's no value in not calling the thing the thing,
because I'm like, what are we getting out of it?
That's how we got here, we were all it's okay,
let's use you phemisms like well now.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Right right right.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
But also I feel like that created this land where
like people could be mean and because they were saying
things kind of like honestly people are like amazing when
in fact, no, not really, they're really mean, you know.
But also I think just the joy of people speaking freely,
people respond to that.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
M hm.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
You know.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
I think you're trying to I try to like infuse
some joy into it, like alowd you do? Yes? Funny
you do you do?
Speaker 2 (02:10):
My thirteen year old love zoo, oh thank you. I
know she doesn't have Instagram so I have to show her.
So I pick and choose based on the subject matter,
you know, And she was like out of everyone I've had,
she was like, it was so cute, it was so
so cute. So anyway, she wish she was here. She
(02:31):
wanted to skip school. But when I told her you're
on zoom, she was like, oh, okay, but she will
be listening.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Yeah, So hi, Gemma, you're listening.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Hello, Hello, Gemma. A pleasure, A pleasure to meet you
through the internet.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
There you go, one day, one day in person, one
day person.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
All right, this is so exciting because I am really
really curious what you're going to be saying, and I
really don't know.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
So let me just say that to everybody.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
It's not like we we have had no contact other
than me following him basically, and we do no I think,
you know Molly right, you know our costume designer or dance.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
We visited the whole archive in Queens like for me
is a young little like Elgibillennial gay boy. I was like,
I have I remember these moments because I'm much more
familiar with the series than I should be, Like, I
remember the first episode I saw was I think, like
season one, the last like, well, you guys are the
Hamptons and like Carrie finds out bigxating someone else, she's
on the cowboy hat on the Oh. Yeah, I was
(03:26):
a good one in seventh grade. But for some reason,
like me and all my straight football friends, like it
was so I didn't know Sex and the City was
even like a gay thing, but like we watch it
together everything. I watched the series finale, we all were
like shut up, turned off basketball and watched the Carry
in Paris part two episode and always men are married
with children. I don't know how I feel like young
(03:48):
boys like don't have that learn misogyny yet, but like
Sex and the City, Sex and the City and the
OC and I went to like an all boys prep school,
was like wow, that was the show?
Speaker 1 (03:58):
No way, okay.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
This year like breaking new ground in terms of my
perception of who was watching the show, because I had
no idea that was happening either.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
Well, I don't think it should have been like if
our parents are kind of handling it like we were twelve,
like what is that tasting spunk? And it's like a
bunch of like teenage boys.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Valid question, really valid question, But I don't think that's
a bad thing. No, right, like that might have been educational.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
I think it was very I think honestly, all the
guys that watched it like were better with their girlfriends
because they kind of had a more advanced I love that.
And what the female experience was, Oh my god, okay,
I like, oh, they kind of had the inside tracks.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
That's amazing. That's amazing and wonderful.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
I mean whenever men, like there was a time when
it was predominantly women would talk to us like.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Oh, we love it. Then sometimes men would.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Be like, oh, you know, my girlfriend, you know, makes
me watch it, and we.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Were like that's okay, cool.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
However, you know, and we were always like secretly like
that's great. You know, thank god the girlfriend's making me
watch it, because that's gonna help, you know, that's going
to help the meeting of you know, the the the
sexes over the divide, the great Divide.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
So I'm excited to hear.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
But you were in seventh grade, so that that is
really interesting.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
Okay, yes, I should I should thought it been again,
it was my my I think the series finale aired
like the fall of my like this fall of my
senior year in high school. I think it was like Wow,
November two thousand and three, so like I remember that.
I rely wow cough Carrie. Yeah startek phone.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
I remember that too. What did you think of Orishna cough?
Speaker 2 (05:35):
And then well we're gonna go backwards in time, But
just curious because I've been hearing some interesting takes on Bristia.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Always interesting to see how you felt originally when you
see it and then going in rewatching it. I think
through both and just like that and then rewatching the
original show on Netflix. Everybody's kind of like contextualized differently, Yeah,
Barishna cough. Like I feel like I've dated men like
him that are like thoroughly I've dated a Parisian man
who had, you know, a lot of things and was
(06:02):
significantly older because I'm thirty nine, So I guess what
about Carrie's agency to the show? Right, I don't know.
I feel like he's interesting. He was never the end game.
I don't love how I feel like he was almost
like I'm looking for the word, not a gas lighter,
but almost like very much like a love bomber, and
then like abandoned.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Well, like to me, he's just super aloof like like
he makes mister Biggs seem like he's not a loof,
which is interesting comparison.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Mister Biggs like he's amazing. But then you go early,
mister Big, I'm like, this man is a he was
a boy before there was a word for it.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
I mean, is he Okay, so can you please please
define boy for me? Okay, because I'm confused.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
I think a boy is just like a man who
has a little bit of Peter Pan syndrome, has money,
but also kind of like he is consistent in his inconsistency.
And I find that is very big for Carrie. In
the first few seasons, he's like, let's go like even
this episode, let's go to drinks, drink thing, let's go
to this. That right for me, like just a man
(07:04):
that gives you red flags, but right after the red
flag is like an immediate excuse to keep you confused.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Okay, then I've totally totally get it. See I was
confused by the boy part. I thought this boy part
meant like like an unemployed you know, like boy, like
a pool boy.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
I don't know what I thought in my brain.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
A man who's in it to like keep you emotionally tethered.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Oh, Okay, well I know all aboustioning.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Like this show, you can go back to the episode,
but like even like the phones in episode in this episode, yeah,
I feel like I grew up on This is the
New York. I was promised and then didn't get because I.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Know, I'm really sorry. I feel that way for so
many people. But when they're.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Actually in the bar and there are multiple people on
a landline on an old fashioned phone, what is happening?
Speaker 3 (07:48):
I wanted to be I want to go back to that,
like like I want to go to there, like I
got the end of it. Like I don't even remember
Indy Sleeve's like twenty ten. It was right before everybody
had a phone on the camera on their phone.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Yeah, it was still kind of like a little bit
very different times.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
This is a club called dark Room, where like the
bouncer was a drug dealer and you'd see like the
whole cast of Gossip Girl and like you can't do
like I had like a fight with Sebastian standover or
a slice of pizza, like you can't have anymore.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
No, it's so sad.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
There's just there's surveillance everybody.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
No, you can't do nothing. I know, it's terrible.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
But when you see the bars, because I've been sober
a long time, right, so I wasn't really going out
except when we would film at these places. And I'm
not quite sure, especially in this particular episode value of
the twenty sething guys, I don't know where they are,
Like do those look like real bars to you?
Speaker 3 (08:39):
I feel like New York bars. There's a there's a
consistency where there's always kind of like a hook, whether
it's like you know, I feel like Samantha through the
PR lens, Like I remember when you guys like there's bed,
there's yes, sushi, there's you know, yeah, yeah, there's all
those things. And I feel like for me, like that
bar could come back now because I feel like there's
a certain like movement from especially from like gen Z
(09:00):
in people minds that are just tired of it. Like
I would go to a bar where like you had
to check your phone at the door and if you
needed something there were literal like rotary.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Phones, which would be amazing. I would go, we should
open that you see.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
The hottest club and like trybeca for like a year.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
You know, it would be fantastic. I agree, it would
be fantastic.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
I mean my feeling now And I don't know if
this is shaped by where we film for and just
like that, because when we came back to do and
just like that, it was post COVID, like just barely
post COVID, right, so anywhere wanted us Like it was
shocking to us because it used to be that we'd
have to kind of beg and plead and go through
all these you know, hoops and pay huge amounts of
money to get places because they were like, we don't
(09:40):
know who you guys are in the beginning, right, But
now the restaurants in the bars.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Were like please please come, you know.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
So we're filming it Daniel, Like we never could have
gotten into Daniel, you know, it's crazy.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
So we're filming it.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Extremely posh, extremely beautiful places not where we used to
film you know.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Well now also with the full circleness of like again
like of Sex and the city of the movies. Even
just like that, I feel like people who run these
places have to be firmly aware of the cachet they
get by you going there. So it's like, yeah, thank god,
three sixty experience or one eighty for you guys at
being like from like nineteen ninety eight to like twenty
twenty four being like, oh, please come film at our hotel,
(10:20):
use the penthouse, do whatever you want, like set on fire.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Yeah, it's really nice. It's really nice. It's a nice difference.
But sometimes I wonder, like, are we just elevated now
to a point of almost like unobtainable? Whereas when you
see the bars, especially that one, you know, the one
where she she goes to see Big to have the
thing that drinks.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
You forty eight blocks and formant that I have a
problem with that. Okay, someone who's worn low nobody's walking.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
She totally does.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
And there is a theme okay, because you remember after
Big Dies she walks like eighty blocks.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
She would totally do this, Sir, Jessica can totally do this.
It's insane.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Forty eight blocks in Manolo's. I can't walk forty eight
blocks and driving loafers, I know.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
I mean, I will say this, our feet have suffered.
Our feet, all of us collectively are you know, pretty
much a mess. Like we could go to any podietrist
at any time and they'd be like, oh my god,
you know, but at the time, like Sarah can run
on the cobblestones. I mean she is like like an athlete.
Okay in the heels.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
That line threw me. I was like forty eight blocks.
I know I would have gotten in the cab, run out,
not paid, and had the twenty year old man, I
know my cabs with the.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
Cash to because she's like, I left my cash. It's
such a different world.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
She's like, I left my when don't you left your cab?
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Yeah, she got the cash.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Get No, there was no uber, there was no you
didn't even pay cabs with credit card. I still when
I get in a cab, I'm like, do I have cash?
Speaker 1 (11:53):
And then like no, wait a minute.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
It's five.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
World really weird, weird. Some establishments don't take it. I'm like,
you don't take American money? Is this legal?
Speaker 1 (12:03):
I know, I know.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
It's very discombobulating.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
Rid of cash. Now, I'm like, when I have cash,
I'm like, I need to find a place that takes it,
because many a thing doesn't. I know it.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
It's troubling.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
So wait, let's go back to the episode because it's
kind of fun because it is like a time machine, right,
this particular one. The first season in general, and especially
this particular one. So tell me when did you personally
come to New York City.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
I personally came to New York City in the fall
of two thousand and nine, so.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Okay, so way later, way later.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
When this episode originally aired, I was twelve years old.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
So wow, wow, wow wow, because for me.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
Timothy Oliphant is justified. And I'm like, right, oh, and
he isn't he amazing? He's the young and in this
would you have die?
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Isn't he's like incredible?
Speaker 3 (13:04):
Yeah? He would have been twenty seven twenty eight when
this episode was filmed. I'm like, wait, Timothy afit was
in his twenties thirty, Like, he's aged very well, so
good job too.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
I mean, right with that hair now, my god, but listen,
I really was like at the time, I was.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
Like that guy, Oh god, that guy.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
Yeah, way, yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
He was already married, ye know, he was, yes, yes,
yes for him adorably. I think he already had a
bunch of kids even, And I was like, wow, you're
so fascinating and obviously so incredibly talented, and you remember
when Like I mean, if I were her, I would
totally pick him and I would just work on the apartment.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
I would just be like, let me do the apartment.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
That was interesting to me because again, I feel like
I'm around. It's interesting again watching now at the age
that you guys kind of were when this series. For me. Yeah,
so for me, like I've had that recent experience where
I've like gone on a date with like a twenty
five twenty six year old and like waking up in
his apartment the next day and he had like I'm
talking like mattress on the floor. I was like wait, wait, wait,
(14:00):
I thought you said a low slung bed, and like
in the light of day, you're like whoa. I'm like,
is this bed in the living Do you have a roommate?
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Sir?
Speaker 3 (14:07):
I was like, oh no, no.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
No, but what happened? Were you like, no, I'm out
of here.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Oh. I was like. We woke up and I was like,
let me order breakfast because I was hungry and now
we have like uber eats, so I was like, okay,
let me and he was so thankful that I ordered
him breakfast. I was like that's odd, which was very sweet,
but I'm like, this is like eleven dollars, like you know,
twenty bucks. Okay, I have any like do you have
any like sparkling water like, which was like, oh, that
made a mistake. Then I like look around. I'm like,
(14:34):
this bedroom's kind of big, and I realized there was
just a mattress in the living room. Wow, And I
was like, oh, it's a big studio okay. And then
in like but then there's another I'm like, oh you
have a roommate. Oh, so like I got this stuff
like ate my breakfast. I was like, this has been sweet, sweetie,
Like you're doing great, sweetye Chris Janner and like kind
of like slowly backed up, never to see that.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Man, Oh I feel bad.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
It was like, but he I was just like we're
in different places in life, and like I just like
great person text. A couple of times afters I was like,
I'm I can't at thirty nine, I for the most
part cannot do roommates.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Roommates are definitely a problem for sure, But I mean
when I think back to this time in life, for
sure there were people who had roommates and that could
be problematic for sure, But it's also like, you know,
I do think in the episode there is like, first
of all, I don't know if you've listened to my podcast,
or whatever.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
I've not seen these episodes, Thank you so much. I've
not seen these episodes.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Since way back, right, And I in my mind really
thought that the first season was just like what like
all over the place, you know, and not really formed.
But now I'm looking back on it and I have
a whole new appreciation, Like it's not perfect by any means,
but it's all there, you know, it's all there, and it's.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
Characteristics are surprisingly like blunt in the beginning, even when
I saw when I think when you had that date
come to the bar, and they were like it was
he was the perfect guy for Charlotte, Like he had money,
manners and like a job or something, and I was like,
this is the original, Like have you heard that new
Like it's like a meme like looking for a man
in Finance six fives, Like I'm like, Charlotte's that original girl,
(16:17):
Like Charlotte would have been true saying that that's so true,
that's so true, thirty years ahead of time. I'm like,
Charlotte was the original, like so true.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
And I was so criticized at the time. I don't
mean me, I mean Charlotte, Like everyone's like she is
so boring she's so boring and I was like, yeah,
just wait, which you know, I'm just happy it worked
out right. But like at the time, everyone thought that
the other three were so much more interesting and obviously
very powerful, and I was much more kind of traditional.
But now I think people are rediscovering these things and
(16:46):
talking more openly about these things.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
I think maybe exactly.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
I feel like it's interating because the zeitgeist. I feel
like you can you can almost tell where the cultural
zeitgeist is by which one of your characters they favor,
and it almost like swings like this in a circle,
because like everyone hated Miranda and then She'sy's like wait wait,
having a job in some sense and like dressing and
why I sell actually amazing that everybody hates Charlotte, and
it's like, actually, wait, like liking love and wanting something,
(17:13):
but actually Charlotte's almost like very secretly like bohemian and
aware as it moves forward, or like everybody hates Carrie
and then it's like it's like whatever, she's like making choices.
Everybody hates Samantha just depending on where the zeit I
says in relation to women. Yeah, it like swings back
and forth. To all of you, because I've always stood
very strong and like I'm a Miranda. I like her.
(17:36):
I find my but everybody says different, but I find myself.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Wait what does everyone say?
Speaker 3 (17:42):
Everyone obviously leans me towards probably a Samantha in terms
of like imagery and because I curse and I'm very
sex positive. But for me, I'm just like actually, like
I like having a job, I like stability, Like men
are very much like secondary to me doing what I
want to do.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
I got it, but you don't practical.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
Yeah, you don't complete me. But if you're an additive,
that's good. And I feel like from Skipper to Steve,
you know the s.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
S A, Yes, there are a lot of guys in
between there.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
Like Skipper is the original Steve, Like Skipper Skipper fell
so Steve could walk.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
That's a good point.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
That's a good point, though, Skipper, Skipper, when I look
back at this, is hysterical in a way that I
just didn't even really perceive it all in the beginning.
You know, he's like a like a flailing you know.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
Out laughing because because in the season when you guys
still had the like the talk to camera with the people,
so the basketball scene in this just threw me back
to the nineties so hard because they were just like, oh,
they filmed this like a Nike commercial. It's like, Bros,
are I have never seen white men in their twenties
(18:53):
in the park.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Actually in the guge they're in the cage.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
Like like that's like a real thing. But I'm just like, oh,
women like like skippers there.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Trying to make a basket.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
Oh my god, I care walking to gumb like I
know this for facts about that character.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
And also I didn't realize but I saw it again
when I watched that. The guys in the bar in
the twenty sevening bar when she goes back are the
same guys on the basketball, which is amazing, Like we
were thinking in such interesting.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Ways at the time. But they do say some crazy.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Things, like they say like that kid who's seventeen says smarty.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
It was, or like they remind me of my mom
did what That's disgusting, Like why would you say to.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Like And this is when we're like I feel as
a show that we're just trying to be like aggressively
non judgmental, do you know what I mean? Like we're
just like whatever, these dudes say, we're not going to
judge them, whereas when I look at them, I'm like
they're awful.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Oh yeah, right, awful.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
The nineties like oh minute and whatever, I'm like, these
are horrible human beings, right, And that was the dating pool,
but that was also like it's an it's like it's
representative of the culture at the time. Yeah, it really
is just the amount of times that interestingly left even
like I remember the Chris Rock Show in two thousand.
You guys had like just been on the cover of
(20:12):
something together, and it was like literally some like white
male pundit like actively calling you guys horse.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
It was so show this is what it was like.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
I was like, wait, what I like, I remember being
like fifteen, like nineteen eight, nineteen thousand.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Was it Bill O'Reilly?
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Yes, because Bill O'Reilly came up to me in an
event and he said, you know, he's really tall, right,
and he said, if I ever see Darren Starr, I'm
going to punch him in the face.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
And I was like, huh. I was just like, what's happening.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
And he goes, I can't believe what he makes you
guys do, and I was like, you know, we really
love our show, like we're.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Fine, We're fine, thank you, sir. You know it pretty confused.
He was like aggressively critical.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
That's such a micro cause culture though, like a strength
crazy misogynist, like actually like verbally assaulting you about how
they're going to help you, and you're like, I'm good.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
I know, and then like what happens with him happens
with him? I mean, it's fascinating, right, it's fascinating.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
It's very fascinating coming from inside the house.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Bill, So let me ask you this though, Let's talk
about Big and Carrie because I need like outside interpretation
because for me, also, I'm looking back on it and
I am kind of like amazed and confused a little
bit about it. Like I wasn't thinking objectively at all
about it at the time. I fully understood that they
(21:35):
had chemistry and that was really what mattered or whatever.
And also I think he looks a little sad, you know,
like I part of me I just want to take
care of him. But I mean, this is me slash
Charlotte obviously, but like I had forgotten the very slow
kind of it was dance.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
They do a very slow burn. It's very interesting and
I feel like that whole kind of like non committal again,
like man boy, because for me, like I feel like
in twenty twenty five, you're a manning forties who's like
divorced or like or makes money. It's like you need
to like be able to be in tune with your
feelings and say I like you, this is a date.
Like that's a low bar for sure. He was just like, oh,
(22:10):
it's a drinks thing. Oh and there really was a
true cat and mouse even like when his friend came ew,
I was like, oh, but I love that carry did that.
She was like goodbye, smart? Are you kidding me?
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Like, I know she's so smart.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
But for a man in his forties to pull that
is right, is like insane. And I'm like, it's probably
more common than we would think, but.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Like, oh, I think so, I think men do all
kind of weird. But I also think that the person
that's based on was a very very powerful person in
New York in the nineties, right, So we knew that
and it was written in there. And I don't know
when you're watching it if you can really tell, but
you know, when men are at a certain level of
money and power structure, they're just like I can do
(22:56):
whatever I want to do, and you're going to follow along,
lady friend, because you're lucky, you know. But she's like, no,
I'm not going to do that. Here's my money, buys
you some drinks. But she's charming about it, you know,
like she's got game.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
I think that also might have been like when I
look back on a very like the look on his
face when when when view through the lens of their
entire relationship. I think that might have been the moment
where he decided to take her seriously because it was
actually an expression of self worth. I feel like if
Carrie stays through that date, like that's actually a really
pivotal moment. If she's like, cool, I'll sit here with
(23:30):
your divorced friend while he hits on people ew, and
you're very much like that's a very clear but like
it's a tale of what you will and will not accept.
And for her to be like, oh, you're with your friend.
I'm not going to tell you how stupid this is.
I'm not trying to tell you how insens this makes me.
I'm gonna leave very casually with a smile by your
(23:50):
drink and let you figure out how dumb you look
right now, right moment.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Where she's amazing, Y's amazing, like.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
You know what, and she's like and you can hear
her and have like, am I confused? But like it's
actually like we're getting the vulnerability of that moment as
like the audience and the voiceover, but when he's getting
as a woman being like nothing like in the most easy, breezy,
beautiful yes, yes, wait, okay, I think like that in
(24:19):
my mind when I watched it back yesterday, it was like,
that's the moment I think he kind of like fell
in love or the game became real because the first
three episodes, he's an idea, he's a nickname, playing with her.
Miranda can't figure it out, and she was number one
litigation you know.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
I love that.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
Yeah, And then she's like no, thank you, and he's like, okay, cool.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Then they see each other again and then she's walking
away and she's like, oh, would have been so cool
if I didn't look back.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
She's also so good.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
But I mean the other thing that I think when
I'm looking at it is like their chemistry is so strong.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
Do you think that I definitely, I think they were
definitely like whatever version of quote unquote. Soul makes though
are like when I look at it now and at
my age through it, like I think the women are
each other's soulmates and the men are added it to
their lives. I think it's actually a love story between
four women in reality, Like so it's an expression of
platonic love, which makes the sex and the city ironic
aspect of it. But their chemistry is super strong as
(25:14):
like sures as characters, you know, there's something where like
even the way he just keeps orbiting her and the
opening like we saw brisk we saw her this and
then we decided to like it made me miss the
meet cute because nowadays it's like somebody's on Tender or Instagram.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Yeah no, I know, we don't even have you really
yeah yeah, I mean nearly rom coms are making now
are like older women younger men, which I'm so fascinated by,
so fascinated by.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Okay, let's talk for a.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Second about Charlotte, because I feel this is the first
good storyline that Charlotte gets, and I remember it all
so clearly. I remember literally dying when we had to
do the read through, literally dying when I first read
the script, like oh, my god, I've been wanting a
storyline and now this is it.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
Yeah, I'm to go. I mean, honestly hyper realistic and
to be real, especially as a gay man, timeless.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
And I mean, if you think about it now, like
Nikki Glazer stands up in her sick on, you know,
stand up, there's a whole section on it where she
gives like instructions, right, but like back then, you didn't
say those words.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
Oh no, that was crazy, and she's just like you,
let's do it the regular way, and like that's crazy.
Like again, you guys are just broaching topics that have
become like really trailblazing, because again, I feel like just
dating in regards to anal sex is timeless, universal, No,
it knows no to wrap.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
It was so funny that we're even saying this, Like
it never would have crossed my mind at the time.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
I just thought like, wow, I'm gonna.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
Have to just get through this because I need a
storyline and I need them to write for Charlotte. And
like when when I was with Michael Patrick on the
podcast and we talk about he remembers us at the
read through because every episode still we do like an
old fashioned read through so that he can hear it.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
And you have to really perform, like you have to
say it loud. You can't just like mumble in your
little microphone.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
You have to like hit those jokes or hey, we'll
cut them right. It's like cutthroat type read through, right.
I try to explain this to my young pretend children,
like please be louder at the read through so that.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
Your stuff doesn't get cut.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
Yeah, you know, and they're like, what but anyway, back then,
we couldn't get through it.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
We couldn't get through the four of us.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
We're like falling off our chairs, you know, which has
happened once since then.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
What I had to say.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Like some crazy thing to Harry and then just like that,
I can't even remember what it is. I blocked it out,
but like the four of us sometimes just get to
laugh so hard. So when we went to film in
the really really old cab, like there are some old
cars in the show, but like this cab was like
nineteen seventy five.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
I read around that scene because I was like, are
they the horse drawn carriage? I'd like them back? I don't.
I what is that?
Speaker 4 (28:02):
Is an old old cab that had enough room for
all four of us, and the DP and the director
are in the front seat with the handheld camera perched
on the back of the front seat, which is.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
A you know, like bankeet or whatever you would call
it in a car.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
Right. I think it reminded me of Taxicab Confessions. Yes,
that might have been airing at the same time, but
I think it was like, this feels like Taxi Cab Confessions.
Have been watching and should not remember based.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
On my I had forgotten about that. That was a
good thing. That was fascinating. It was like that, so
and that guy who plays a cab driver so great.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
So our director and our DP are there, they're like
hiding under the camera and then they'd like, you know,
put their heads up and give us a note, and
then we would have to do we would have to
go back around to do each take so that the
background matched, which is funny because you can't really see anything.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
But like, these are the things that we took seriously.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
So I never said the words, the real words I'm
supposed to say until the take that we're rolling, because
I was just mortified. All right, So we start, we start,
we're doing this. It's like they're like this is it.
You know we're gonna do it. So we go to
do it. I can't say the words. I got my
line because I can't say the words. And I was
so embarrassed because then we had to go around the
(29:18):
whole of the time. It's her Justa's like, it's okay,
it's okay, it'll be okay, you can do it.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
You can do it.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
And then of course we pick up each one and
my reaction when she's like, we're gonna go to you
know whatever Miranda's addresses and I'm like no.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
And then they're like, we're going to Samandag and I'm
like no. Like it's very funny and very Charlotte, you know,
I mean it.
Speaker 3 (29:37):
Is it very much was I think it was just
it was very Charlotte like. And again Charlotte has some
of the more interesting lines and also just ends up
her arc is interesting because I feel like you were
all such three sixty human beings but were packaged in
very palatable archetypes for the time.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Yeah, I mean we're only three sixty beings because of
our writers working so hard over and you know, we
had Michael Patrick, but so many women, and.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
I feel like it, like everything kind of like slowly
exposed itself when they're giving you archetypes, and obviously those
archetypes have lasted for decades now through like you know
girls or like other Michael Patrick King shows like like
a Younger or like a show like you Know it's
one girl, two guys, and then like the actual world
(30:25):
around her ends up being more important than those men,
which is a very interesting thing that I've seen in
like in like those kind of Darren Star Michael Patrick, etc.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Right, right, right, No, that's a good point.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
That's a good point of Twilight or Hunger Games.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
She in the City Code where it's like which guy
do I choose? And like my friends actually helped me
with that, Like.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
That's so interesting.
Speaker 3 (30:44):
I never thought of that true line. But yeah, Charlotte,
Charlotte's been dealing with everything, but she deals with everything
through I feel like a bohemian Greenwich lens. That's what
I call it. Like she was raised in Greenwich. Those
are her mores, and those what she's that's what she's
been told to like. But I feel like Charlotte is
actually a character through the tire series that just slowly
becomes more herself to the point where you get to
(31:05):
like and just like that and she's like hyperbohemian and
like call and like buying her kid's condoms. Like that's
like that.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
I know, it's so interesting.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
I want to man, She's like, Okay, do it in
the house. Don't get pregned.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
I know it's so it's so crazy, But I do
think that's like a very relatable trajectory, you know what
I mean, Like you know you kind of like like
that's how Also, I think her friends have influenced her,
you know, because people are still like, well, why were
you friends with them in the beginning? I'm like what,
why would I be? Because she wants to be them,
you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
Or even the episode, there was an later episode I
think where after she maybe gets divorced or she's with Trey,
where she's like goes back to the girls with the
GRD edge and she's like, I hate these bitches.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
She realizes she's the Samantha of that.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
She's sheds funny about sex and then she's like, wait,
these girls suck, like right.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
That episode is how I ended up at the Jacques
Moose show in Nice.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
Oh what I remember that? I literally Yeah, he had
a picture.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Simone had a picture of me with you know, my
young self in like a tank top with a sweater tide,
like so preppy, and that was the inspiration you wanted
me to wear that.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
I'm like, babe, it's so many years ago, I can't
wear that tank top. He was like no, he was
so sweet.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
It's like just maybe a shirt, you know, but that
was his whole inspiration, which I was like, how random,
but also how incredibly flattering.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
Yeah, I mean, that's so funny that, like you guys
have been living these moments or moments that you might
have forgotten, are such cannon or like you know, like
personality defining things for now a new generation of creatives
that like you're not working with like that, which is
amazing interesting.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
We would never have it, never, never would have entered
our mind, you know, like at this point still you know,
this aired in nineteen ninety eight, right, which is hysterical.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Nothing had aired yet before this first season.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
We filmed the whole first season without anything on the air,
and no one knew what we were so we weren't
borrowing clothes at this point, like like we were hoping
one day maybe we could borrow some clothes, you know,
from somebody, like none of that had happened, you know,
it was a different world.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
But I have another thing I want to tell you about.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
So, you know, the scene after the cab scene, and
I go back to the guy who's played by Josh Stenberg,
who's a great actor, Like, did you watch Fleischman is
in trouble?
Speaker 1 (33:19):
Is that what it's called? Flesh is in trouble?
Speaker 3 (33:21):
I did.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
He's on there. He's really scary.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
He's a clear new gus guy, right.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
I know, it was so good, so good. He's a
great actor. He's been in so many things. I should
have looked this up so I could list his things.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
But he's great. And he was that guy, the guy.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
Who wanted me to do the thing I didn't want
to do, which I'm just not going to say. So
we went we filmed that scene. I still have that
shiny blouse. I still have all these clothes from back then,
which is kind of funny because they're so boring, but
I still have them.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
And we filmed that scene. And I had been in.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
Acting class for like twenty years at this point, right
before before the show you know, got going so to
me in acting class. They're always talking about high stakes,
high stakes, So I'm thinking about how much she wants
to get married, how this guy is so perfect but
he wants me to do this thing, and how upsetting.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
That would be. Whatever, So I'm very emotional.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
Darren came to me and said, you know, babe, we've
got to refilm that. And I'm like, what, Like, I
think it's the only time in my life I've had
to reshoot a scene based on my performance. And he said, listen,
you know this is just one guy. There's another guy
around the corner.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
And I was like, what what?
Speaker 2 (34:25):
Like to me, I did not understand that, Like, as
a human being, I didn't understand that, and I didn't
understand that from acting perspective. But also I didn't really
know these girls yet, Like there are real girls that
they were based on. I don't know about that, you
know what I'm saying. So I was like, oh god,
there's another guy around the corner.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
Really for Charlotte, like this is what she thinks.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
And he's like, yes, we've got to reshoot this.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
I'm like, okay, So we did.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
It's the only scene, thank god, in my career, I know,
because he did not want me to have the high stakes,
which I had never really been told like, don't have
high stakes.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (35:00):
I mean that also for the time period, that scene
is groundbreaking one.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
I'm glad and too.
Speaker 3 (35:03):
I wanted to say, like, also for me rewatching the series,
it's so interesting and I'm not sure if you've had
a guest say this yet. How much almost like my
like coming out is coded with watching you guys date
because like, as a kid, I'm like sitting here watching
all this these episodes and like you're seeing sex for
the first time, and I read like now it's like
triggering me. Watching the first season, I'm like, oh, this
(35:25):
is when I first realized I was attracted to do that.
Wasn't saying anything, but I was like, wow, like that
guy's hut okay. I was like, I'm also looking for
me on that six five and finance, so I was like,
I'd be like, I feel like Sex and the City
kind of like taught me I was gay before I
was even gay. Because especially for me, like Samantha's sex
(35:46):
scenes it very much like I remember I literally remember
being thirteen and watching I have sex with that fireman
and the yeah, and the camera spinning around, and I
was like, yeah, that was good in his butt.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
Glad we could be of help, you know.
Speaker 3 (35:59):
So there's so many there's so many levels. I feel
like everybody like, I'm sure you hate hearing people say like, oh,
we grew up with you because we're still like experiencing it.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
Like, Noah, I don't mind.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
I still need my LTW Charlotte spinoff. I would like,
I just want you guys as crazy like Spence moms
going and doing things like.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
That's very great. Oh, you're gonna love the first episode.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
Then when we would come back, I'm on a little
adventure me and LTW.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
We do have a good time. We do have a
good time.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
And also, I personally not that I'm ever wanting anyone
to spend anything off from us. I always want to
be there, right, But like LTW could actually just have
her own spinoff because her whole family is so fascinating.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
I've enjoyed the whole thing. I'm also like, I think
I've heard you guys talking on like one of the
last episodes about like the crazy reaction to like Miranda,
But I'm like, that's what happens, guys. Thank you friends
that make crazy decisions and right like them and they
are the catalyst for your life, even like Charlotte, when
I remember when Miranda first gets with Chay and you're
(37:02):
the picnic and you're like, huh, so explain what is
what is happening with you? But I think that's what
I would like. Again, that's such Charlotte in that growth,
calling the thing the thing. Like Carrie will be petty,
She'll still make a punge, but she's not. Carrie is
not going to cut through and be like what the
fuck is going on?
Speaker 1 (37:20):
It's true, But can I tell you about that scene?
Speaker 2 (37:22):
So Miranda, sorry Cynthia was directing that episode, which is
so crazy to remember, right, so she's in it.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
It's a big episode. She's also directing it. So when I.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
Read that scene, I thought that Charlotte was being like
kind of supportive but gently questioning, you know, like how
she does sometimes like are you sure we get there?
And Michael Patrick's like yell at her. I'm like what
what We're down at Battery Park And He's like yell
at her.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
I'm like, hah okay, yell at her. I'm so scared.
Speaker 3 (37:53):
She looks so.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
Mad, like she looks so mad at me, you know,
and you know we have lost all boundaries between our
personal and professional selves, right. He's like, no, you gott
to yell at her because this is shocking, and I'm like,
you're You're right, I guess. I mean, I thought it
was all very exciting, but that has more to do
with me.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
I guess right that she took this big leap. You know.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
Obviously not everybody feels that way, and people are still
have very strong.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
Feelings about it, very strong strong, it's crazy.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
But I also take that as a compliment, like we're
thirty years later almost, and people have strong feelings.
Speaker 3 (38:27):
How lou Yah people do feel I think it's got
to be interesting for you almost, like and well, I'm
sure we'll discuss it the later date. I'm sure I'll
meet you at some point in this life.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
Yeah, you got to come to the set, babe.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
People feeling like they have ownership over you guys and
what you do or like yeah, like even like in
the fan reactions like even I'll admit the first is
of it, and just like that, I was like, well,
I'm like, wait, actually it's been twenty something years, Like
they're going to be different people there's going to be
to feel relationships change or like if I'm looking, I'm
also people are often looking for I think people don't
(38:58):
like change, and I think, yeah, all they have when
you guys sign off, whether it was two thousand and
three or the end of the second movie, is like
their idea of what's happened to you, Yeah that's different.
Instead of like reconciling it, they're like, no, be what
you were two thousand and three.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
I know, I know, I feel bad, But the truth
is if we were what we were in two thousand
and three, nobody would want to see that exactly.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
That would be sad, you know.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
You know, yeah, No, we had to create something new,
and we're just really lucky that we even get to
do it in this crazy world that we're living in.
You know what I'm saying, Like we were lucky in
the beginning because in the beginning we were old.
Speaker 1 (39:36):
You know.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
That's what's also so funny when you rewatch, like we
look like little, tiny children, but we were over thirty,
which was like shocking, right that there'd be a show
where a bunch of thirty somethings were like stomping around
New York at high heels. People were like, what, like
it like was mind blowing, but it's so funny.
Speaker 3 (39:53):
How Like honestly, again, it is kind of universal because
I've had when I go back and look at it
and kind of like that's that episode triggered my memory
of the rest of the seasons, Like I've had a
lot of the things that happened to you happened to me,
Like I've had my friends have kids now and I
went in and I had I had a Chanel, a
blood red Chanell boy bag and and then one of
the little kids spilled yogurt on it. And I was like, no,
(40:17):
like I've never wanted to like throat punch a four
year old. But and like one of the one of
the moms is like, well, you know, it wasn't even
it wasn't the mom who's throwing the party was my friend,
but it was was the mom with the girl that
did it, who was very badly behaves like well, you know,
we don't expend money on like things like that, And
I'm like, bitch you, oh god, you live in Brentwood.
(40:38):
Your house is eight million American dollars, like totally, you know,
I'm gonna go light your tesla on fire and see
how you feel about that. So I feel like that
was like the carry Shoe episode where it's like, don't
tell judge me and my life or like what I want.
And I also think almost being like a gay man
is like being a single gay woman in the nineties,
is like people are used to it, like they're used
(40:58):
to the idea of you will just yeah, very strange
ways that you're like, excuse me, I'm just here existing
even like soueid like I don't want kids. I like kids,
Do I want? No? Do I want them? Not? Right right?
I think that's very similar to what all of your
characters are going through in different capacities, whether it's you know,
Samantha being like no, Carrie kind of evolving with it,
(41:19):
Charlotte being like this is the goal right right, right right,
and you know Marina just kind of having had one
like oh, well, well here we go. Whoo Now I
gotta raise a kid. Now I have a brain totally.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
And I also think, like Michael Patrick talked about, he
really felt at the time that he came nineteen ninety seven,
you know that being a gay man, like he he
felt the other in the way that we single women
at the time felt the other. But I still feel
like it's not that different now in a lot of ways, I.
Speaker 3 (41:48):
Think it's like it's a very similar energy you get,
and I feel like it's the energy of just basically
like straight men not understanding you and looking at the
entire world through their purview and being like, oh, you
don't want this. It's almos like straightmen, or like like
Miranda Precy, like everybody wants to be us and we're like, no,
we don't.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
Totally. Yes, it is like that. I feel like that
as a single woman.
Speaker 2 (42:10):
Yes, yes, And people are like, but why why, And
I'm like, oh my god, please stop asking me why.
Speaker 3 (42:16):
I am like to this day, like when people ask
the question like they think it's a compliment or like
I'll get it online or from friends or when on
a first date, how are you single? That's not Maybe
I was sick, Maybe I was not prioritizing romantic love.
Maybe I have standards, maybe I get maybe I get
a fair amount of love from my friends of thirty
years who maybe I want someone who's added to my life.
(42:38):
But like, but like you're acting as if pairing off
monogamously is the default is actually really really presumptuous and
really condescending, and I think, like, I think that's why
the spirit of the show continues on or like it
has been so similarly like forced in people's lives. It's
almost like you're getting four versions of like being yourself,
(43:00):
of like authentically being yourself and having friends that don't
judge you. Because I think, like seminal moments in all
the episodes, whether it's this one, whether it's the Carrie blowjob,
the FedEx guy, whether it's Charlotte getting mad about the pregnancy,
it's like those moments when you want to judge, but
they come back and be like, that was rude of
me to do that to you, Like, actually, your life
(43:20):
is different than mine. And I think that's why people
are so attached to these characters, because like it happens
in all the cycles of their lives, through divorces, through marriages,
through babes, through cancer, through coming out as non binary
and moving to LA You're just like, Okay, I'm gonna
I'm gonna question your decision making, but I'm not gonna
come in at like my shit doesn't stink. And I
(43:42):
like love that, and I think going back to this
episode you kind of like really feel it in a
similar way where again, like I'm gonna sand Tinto's down.
This is where Carrie and Big fall in love because
Carrie asserts her standards kind of Charlotte actually, when you
think about it, like deals with the wildest stuff the episode,
because even like for me, I was like, oh, like
(44:02):
oh wow, like Samanthia slept with a twenty year old
and like did it on your side? Like nineteen second
was a watch. She's like, we did it on our side,
And I'm like, so you rolled over this like Charlotte's
like dealing with butt sex and you're like, oh, I'm
crazy because I did it on my left shoulder. Like
(44:23):
you're right, all the true everyone is there with Charlotte
like dealing with bohemian through a more traditional lens, and like.
Speaker 2 (44:29):
You're right, I like this take likely. I'm down with it.
I'm going to write down that whole last thing you said.
I'm going to refer back to it, okay when I
get put on the spot.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
All right, thank you, thank you for being with us,
for having me. This has been You're amazing.
Speaker 2 (44:44):
Yes, good travels out there, and we want to see
you back here in La.
Speaker 3 (44:47):
Yes, I'll be back in La soon, I think, I
don't even know, sometime soon, two weeks.
Speaker 1 (44:52):
I know your jet setter, babe. I love it.
Host
Kristin Davis
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