October 3, 2023 • 59 mins
This week we talk about America's most badass president! Professor Greg Jackson of History That Doesn't Suck joins the show to talk about the rough-riding cowboy, amateur boxer, former NYPD commissioner, Nobel Peace Prize laureate, and Medal of Honor Recipient who once declared war on Spain without any authority to do so and once gave an 80-minute campaign speech with a .38 caliber bullet in his chest.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Badass of the Week is an iHeartRadio podcast produced by
High five Content. Theodore Roosevelt calmly draws a white handkerchief
from his jacket, holds it to his mouth, and coughs
into it. He inspects the cloth. There's no blood. That's good.
It means he's not bleeding internally, he would know. In
(00:20):
his long and colorful career, Roosevelt had been an amateur
boxer and cattle rancher. His fist fought outlaws in the
Dakota's battled corruption as commissioner of the New York City's
Police Department, served as President of the United States twice,
created national parks, hunted lions in Africa, and discovered unsharded
wilderness in Brazil. Received a Nobel Peace Prize for negotiating
(00:43):
the end to the Russo Japanese War, and also received
the Medal of Honor for leading a cavalry charge into
Spanish lion infantry at the Battle of San Juan Hill,
the decisive battle in the Spanish American War, a war
that he started almost unilaterally, despite having no authority to
do so. It is October fourteenth, nineteen twelve, and Theodore
(01:06):
Roosevelt has just been shot in the chest at close
range by an assassin. As his supporters grab the gunman
and restrain him, Roosevelt demands that no harm be done
to the man. He tells the rest of his supporters
to take their seats because Theodore Roosevelt is about to
give an eighty two minute campaign speech with a thirty
(01:28):
eight caliber bullet lodged in his chest. Hello, and welcome
back to Badass of the Week. My name is Ben
Thompson and I am here as always with my co host,
doctor Pat Larish. Pat, how are you doing today?
Speaker 2 (01:47):
I'm doing okay, good looking forward today's episode.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Yeah, we have a really special episode for you guys.
Today we have a really special guest that we're very
excited to have on the show. I want to interduce
Professor Greg Jackson. He's the host of History that Doesn't Suck. Greg,
thank you so much for being here and giving us
your time to come and talk about some cool historical badasses.
(02:11):
We are very excited about the prospect of having an
episode of this show that Doesn't Suck.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
I was well played. It's my pleasure to be here.
Thanks so much for having me. Ben.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
I've been thinking about that one I've I've been working
on that joke all day, so I'm glad that, oh
it landed. We're off to a strong start. That's right. So, Greg,
why don't you just briefly kind of walk us through
your show what you do for History Doesn't Suck and
(02:43):
kind of how you got into the idea of podcasting
and creating your show.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
Sure, so you know the little tag I put at
the beginning of every episode, History that Doesn't Suck is
a bi weekly podcast delivering I legit seriously researched, hard
hitting history of American history through entertained stories that really
kind of sums it up. The thing for me was
back in twenty seventeen is when I started it. As
you said, I am a professor. I'm a professor at
(03:10):
Utah Valley University, and I was looking through podcasts, honestly,
looking for something that I would want to listen to.
And there are plenty of wonderful podcasts out there, But I,
in my mind saw what if you'll indulge a little
bit of academia talk. I saw a gaping hole in
the podcast historiography if you will. In my mind, we
(03:34):
had a lot of well done, highly entertaining podcasts out there,
and they were done by mostly either amateurs or you know,
just people who aren't trained in history. And then you
had us academics who bless us. We mike it a
little esoteric. We might lack at times on the ability
(03:59):
to actually tell a good yard the irony for history.
You know, story is in the word, but you know
that's that's not the way that it works on the
professional level. And in my mind, there is a way
to merge the best of academia, the rigor the systematic approach,
the methodology that I was trained and taught to use
(04:20):
through a PhD program, and so I wanted to take
that but merge it with some of the storytelling, the
fun side, if you will. And part of that was
driven by my classroom experience. My students love the way
I lecture and tend to tell a story. I love
(04:40):
to use stories to bring to life what are otherwise
just names and dates. No one cares about names and dates,
but when you get to know the person, then history
comes to life.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Yeah. I love that. I've always kind of said that
as well, when people are talking to me about some
of the badass stuff where it's like you know, a
lot of history tends to be a bunch of old,
dead white guys, and you have to memorize their birthdays.
And I think the people who generally love history had
one person who could make the stories real and make
them real people who had like real problems and you know,
(05:13):
exact really challenges. And you know, for the Battus of
the Week podcast, we actually need a two person team
to accomplish what you're doing. Pat is the trained academic
and I'm the amateur podcaster storytelling.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Hey, these are I've come to appreciate very much in
this process. How much I'm of course not discounting that
whole PhD process, but I will tell you it's grueling
and you get in crucial training. But storytelling is a
separate skill set. It's it's an art, and uh, having
(05:48):
a pH d in history does not give you that. Paty,
I'm sure you've seen this. Will sometimes opine, like you
get together at a conference and scratch their heads. Why
are people not reading more of what we write? Well,
that's because we don't. We don't tell stories very well.
We're it sometimes feels like we are trying to lose
(06:08):
people in jargon. So we rock the footnotes. That's right,
Chicago style for life.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Yes, so what are you what are you working on now?
So it looked kind of for for history that doesn't suck.
It looks like you're kind of taking a chronological approach
to US history. And so where are you at right now? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (06:35):
So first of all, that's very intentional again to the
space I want to fill is that fun storytelling. Gifted
storytellers are inclined to methodologically basically create what we would
call survey in the college experience. I am intentionally creating
a podcast that is a survey of US history to
make it sound as boring as I can. This is
(06:57):
your audio textbook, but of course it doesn't fee like that.
So I'm I'm very uh forthright in what my my
goal is and is to make this a textbook of sorts.
But I masked that medicine in the ice cream. That
is storytelling, So moving chronologically, Yes, sometimes some themes kind
(07:18):
of make the chronology a little more difficult to do,
but by and large we managed to stick to that.
Right now, we're wrapping up World War One. So just
a few days ago I recorded the first of a
two part episode on the Music Gun offensive. That's the
last major offensive of World War One. Pat, you know
exactly I'm talking about Ben, Not to dismiss you. Pat
(07:42):
just really lit up.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
So well, isn't that Ben?
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Didn't we share me? We did share me, share.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Me the pigeon, And of course.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Shae gets his moment, his time to shine or get shot,
as the case may be, our brave little pigeon carrier.
I'm not going up to present day. At made that
very clear to listeners every time they ask. I think
there's a line to be drawn between being a historian
and being a reporter. So I have no interest in
(08:15):
crossing that line.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Yeah, okay, Well, when we when we asked you to
come and you very graciously agreed to come join our show,
we just said, you know, who do you want to
talk about? Who's your favorite badass from American history that
you would want to talk about on the show. And
you picked one of my favorites, so I was very excited.
I'm very excited to talk about him. You picked President
(08:40):
Theodore Roosevelt, who I love and who is awesome, and
we are going to get into why very quickly. But
but but Greg, can you give us just kind of
a general overview of of Teddy Roosevelt and why why
you picked him?
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Yeah, Theodore Roosevelt is uh he he embodies America at
its best. I would say, when you think about the
American dream, the right, the idea of of making yourself better,
of striving for something greater, the man was born with
(09:18):
silver spoon in his mouth. Let's go ahead and acknowledge that.
But this is a man who, or rather let's go
back to even being a boy, right, and a child
who read about great men. Uh In in his era
that far far more stories about men than women. So
I do use that word very intentionally that this is
(09:41):
the Gilded Age, progressive era. You know, he's born even
even earlier. So, but he sees these role models and
he very intentionally says to himself, I want to be
not so much in a I mean, he has playing
of ego. Like like any anyone who ends up in
the White House, you gotta have a pretty healthy degree
of self confidence, let's say. But this is someone who says,
(10:06):
who says to himself, I want to be a better person.
I want to live up to the examples of the
best who came before me. And he takes very intentional
steps to do that. That at its core is what
I love about Teddy Roosevelt in terms of who he
is and how he pushes himself. But then another thing
I'd add to that that the second layer, the ko punch.
(10:26):
Since we are talking about a boxer here.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
Yeah, he was a.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
President, but he's a boxer too. He's not just looking
out for himself. He doesn't just want to be his best.
He wants his nation, and by nation he means his
fellow Americans. He wants them to have their best opportunities
to be them to be their best selves. It's so
(10:50):
well summed up in his slogan as president, a square deal.
He wants everyone to have a square deal, and by
that he means the ability to be their best selves
to you know, to be able to start a business
or even just hold a decent job and have a
(11:10):
fair shake. It's not to say you won't work hard
or have struggles, but everyone should be able to have
at least a fair shake. And he fought tooth and
nail as a legislator, has a freaking rich New Yorker
turned bad Land cowboy to police chief back in New York.
(11:35):
Whether he's on the battlefield in the Spanish American War
to President. You know, I'm not saying that every decision
he made was Alice the right one, but never once,
in my estimation, did did Teddy. Even if he made
a decision that was perhaps selfish for himself, I don't
think he ever did so realizing it was selfish. It
(11:56):
was he was always thinking about others.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Well, okay, well we are going to get into it.
We're going to take a really quick break for a
word from our sponsors, and then when we get back
to it, we are going to talk about Theodore Roosevelt. Okay,
(12:20):
welcome back. We are here with Professor Greg Jackson of
History that Doesn't Suck, and Greg, we're going to talk
about President Theodore Roosevelt, who is, in my opinion and
it sounds like yours, one of the most badass presidents
in American history. But when he got started, like as
a boy, he didn't project like he was going to
(12:42):
become one of the greatest badasses in all of American history.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
No, not at all. Theodore Roosevelt or he actually hated
being called Teddy. Let's go ahead and acknowledge that we
all call him Teddy hated being called Teddy is my
least favorite nickname, so we will call him t R.
Or the Colonel. That was his favorite nickname was the Colonel.
You don't want to be called President. I want to
be called the colonel as we get into his later years.
(13:07):
But we're talking childhood, so let me die that back.
Young tr Theodore Roosevelt. He's a very sickly child. He
he gets picked on quite a bit, and in fact,
he gets beaten up at one point by you know,
a group of kids. Today we would talk about bullying
and how not appropriate that is. This is the eighteen sixties,
(13:29):
and I don't know that that conversation quite happened.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
That conversation didn't happen for me in the nineteen eighties,
so I'm sure, yeah, right, yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
So when his father, you know, sees and trs from
a wealthy family. The Roosevelts are a deep pocketed, you know,
blue blood New Yorker bunch, his father says Teddy, because
you know he's little, you gotta build yourself. You can't
just build yourself here. Tr is a thinker. He's smart.
(13:59):
You got it yourself here, you know, pointing to his
arm and flex him and TIR sets about doing that.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
His father.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
Again, they're rich, right, so there's that luxury. His father
builds a nice in at home gym for him. But
as anyone knows who's ever either gotten a gym, passed
or gone for the at home gym, just buying the
peloton doesn't do the trick. You can get the fancy stuff,
you still got to actually sweat and work with it.
(14:26):
And so sickly asthmatic little tir he works and works
and works, and he actually overcomes asthma. Now, small medical disclaimer,
I don't think that works for everyone with asthma. Please
do not throw your inhaler away. His asthma was slight enough.
I mean it was significant, but slight enough. And I
(14:47):
don't know the details, but he was actually able to
overcome it, building up stronger lungs, building up his his
physical strength, and stronger heart. All that jazz. So he
builds body and doing that, in his mind, it teaches
him that hard work pays off, that we can build things.
(15:08):
He of course, he gets older, he goes to Harvard
because he's a blue blooded Yeah, exactly, of course he
goes to Harvard. He joins the boxing club. But again
this is not a kid who nature blessed physically, right,
This is not the guy who who magically would have
been the captain of the football team. He has terrible eyesight.
So he steps into the ring and he's got to
(15:28):
take his glasses off. So imagine, you know, this world
without contact, Imagine having blurry vision. You can't even see,
and you got your dukes up. Someone's swinging at you.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
He doesn't climbing into the ring with your glasses on, like,
hang on, I'm gonna take these off. The other guy's like, oh,
I'm going to smoke this nerve.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
But but he hangs in there. You know. He succeeds
in the Harvard Boxing club. One of my favorite stories
from his life actually is when he's a young Harvard
undergrad and he's in one of these fights. The bell rings,
his opponent honestly didn't hear the bell, and tr half
(16:07):
blind tr lets his guard down. Boom gets smacked right
in the face right off. The whole crowdy erups, you know,
booze and hisses absolutely angry, and tr calms the crowd down,
smiles at his opponent, grinning with the blood between his teeth,
(16:28):
and just says that's okay, you didn't know. We're fine,
we're good, and they carry on about. I don't even
remember which one of them won. But that little story,
that moment, it sums up who tr is. Most of
us can't take a punch to the face and smile
through the blood. Tr That's the type of person he is,
(16:49):
and that follows him through his life.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Yeah, and he smiled through the blood. He reached out
and made a connection with his opponent and was a
really good sport about it. And he also read the room. Yes,
he was able to connect with the crowd.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
It's all speaking to the sorts of things you need
as a politician, which he very quickly becomes. He's barely
out of Harvard and he's in the New York State legislature.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
There's one story I like from him at Harvard where
he was kind of talking a lot during class and
the professor got so flustered with them that he was like,
see here, Roosevelt, I am the one teaching this class.
So I imagine him to be well.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
And another important thing, I would call this one of
his weaknesses. I love tir to death. None of us
are perfect. Everybody has their imperfections, right, I wish Tiar
was a little more constitutionally minded than he is. But
that's also part of his goodness is that he's focused
on people and he doesn't like seeing technicalities get in
(17:57):
the way of good. Of course, that can have problems
because when you start blowing past technicalities, then bad people
can use I can do the same sort of things.
But we start to see some elements of this even
when he's a student, as he realizes he has no
interest in studying the law. What does he want to do.
(18:19):
He wants to write history. He's just writing history books
people do precisely as one of this. I hear really smart, cultured, attractive,
one might say, ruggedly handsome people write history.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
That's yeah, this is a podcast. On a podcast, no
one can tell that you're ruggedly handsome.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
But we have to tell them. We have to describe
it picture.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
And now now I'll start blushing. My goodness, I.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Was talking about I was actually I was actually just
talking about.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
Well played.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
Then I love that.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Okay, so tr.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
So, So tr goes into the state legislature. He learns
a lot of things. He's a staunch Republican, but he's
quick to learn So, for instance, he goes to pass
some legislation related to tobacco. He's doing basically the bidding
of the tobacco industry. And as he's going through this process,
(19:27):
a man comes up to him and says, Representative Roosevelt,
I don't think you understand what you're doing and how
that impacts me as as an actual employee and worker
in this industry. I invite you to come to my
home and see what it looks like on the other side.
I think there are I hate to say this, I
think there are a number of politicians out there who
would say, nope, I'm not walking into that trap. Right,
(19:50):
how'd you get in here exactly? Tr says, absolutely, you
got it. Named the day and time. He goes to
the man's home because the way cigars are rolled at
that point there isn't a factory. He walks into this cramp, dumpy,
little you know apartment, finds this immigrant living you know,
(20:10):
in part of the apartment, basically people living on top
of each other. And it's him and it's his wife,
and it's his kids and everyone. They're all rolling cigars
and they start talking about the pay scale and how
this works, and this is when Tierre goes, oh this
is I'm not I was not aware of this side
(20:32):
of the coin. He has these sorts of experiences, He's
open to them. This is a man who's ready and
willing to take in other sides. Now, it's not that
he and he doesn't flip entirely either. I think this
is the thing that I love and respect about Theodore
Roosevelt so much. If you are truly on a polar extreme,
(20:52):
he will never make you happy. As forceful and powerful
as this man can be in the room and speaking
his mind, uh, he's he honestly is never the extremist.
He's His speeches are. I love them. I think they
would probably drive They would drive any political party mad
because instead just going out there and hammering the talking
(21:13):
points and calling it today, he's caveating, caveating, nuanced, nuanced nuance.
You know. We this is why we need to take
care of the businessman, because the businessman is taking these
risks and putting this on the line d D. But
we've created these opportunities for him. He doesn't have a
right to walk on the workingman. None of this happens
without the workingman. But the working man needs to be
(21:34):
respectful of the right. He's so he's back and forth
and back and forth.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
A political moderate, can you imagine.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
Yeah, and yet we think of him as pushing as
he does. He pushes the progressive error. So it's not
like he's coming into this like chummy, hey guys, we
should all just always meet in the middle. No, he's
got positions that are definitely, you know, pushing into new places.
But he doesn't just kind of, you know, go for
(22:02):
I'm going to out liberal or I'm going to out
conservative everybody. He says exactly what he means, and he
listens before he gets to what he means.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
Yeah, that's really something we could use more of as well.
I think more of that kind of I love this guy. Yeah, yeah,
so yeah. He becomes the youngest state representative in New
York state history at twenty three, which I think in
one of the things I wrote about him once, I
said that I spent most of my twenty third year
playing Halo and he was a state representative in New York,
(22:35):
which is pretty amazing. And this is when around the
time he.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
Meets Alice, Right, so yeah, he he knows Alice at Harvard.
In fact, she is present for that boxing match that,
if memory serves me, maybe I'm conflating boxing matches, but
he would take her to the boxing match, because again,
what's the era. I mean, we're talking late nineteenth century.
We got some very classic ideas of masculinity. He's got
(23:03):
he's a man's man, is a dude who steps into
the boxing ring.
Speaker 4 (23:06):
Right, babe, watch me kick this guy's ass exactly, exactly,
you know, all the more reason to smile if he's
got blood in his mouth, because it's got to show
that even if he gets hit, man can take a punch, right.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
Yeah, Yeah, he can take a punch and be gracious
about it and yes with it.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
And because he's also elite, right, he's upper, he's upper echalance.
He's got to show that he is even if he
is a man's man, he's also a gentleman. Yes, right,
So he's all these things at once. But he does
he does ask her and she says no the first time.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
So it didn't. It didn't totally work just getting punched
in the It took more than just getting punched in
the face to win her over.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
It did it did? Yeah, And for any any listeners
out there thinking that their romance life will improve. If
they get hit in the face in front of their
love interest, that probably is not a solid play. I
would not.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Recommend that, as the week does not endorse getting punched
in face to impress your girlfriend. So tr and Alice
they get married. He has to ask her a couple
times before she agrees to marry him. But then, you know, fairly,
fairly soon after they're married, there is tragedy and oh
(24:16):
just a big, just a really hard Valentine's Day for
Theodore Roosevelt.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
February thirteenth, eighteen eighty four of memory serves, Yep, he
is an Albany with the state legislature. He just had
an amazing day, passed a bill. It's a really big deal.
Congratulations everywhere. Telegraph's coming in. His child's been born, so
he's on top of the world.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Right.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
Imagine this, whatever your career is, you just got like
all the accolades, big day, your first child's been born.
I mean this is especially in the era. This is
quite literally the dude busts out the cigar and you know,
poor little tumblr moment and then start coming telegrams that
same day. Your wife's not doing great. Your wife's turning
(25:05):
very poorly. You need to get home. You may never
see her again if you don't get home on the train.
I can only imagine, right, this is not our modern era.
There's no phone, there's no texting, he's not calling, no
internet connection and not even an old school phone call.
Just stick to his gut for hours on a train
gets off at what is today Grand Central Station then
(25:27):
it was the Train Central Depot, walks, walks home, and
death is knocking at the door and saying goes for
his mom. Within a twenty four hour cycle, his mother
and his wife both die, leaving him a brand new
(25:48):
father who's lost. I mean, as far as he's concerned
everything his diary. This is, in my mind, one of
the most expressive diary entries, and yet it is absolutely
lacking in language. He simply writes the light has gone
out of my life with a big black X across
(26:11):
the page.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
That is it. Wow, So just a really rough day,
for really rough twenty four hours.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
For yes, now that we've officially bummed out all of
your listeners.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Yeah, he goes into a dark place, very dark, but yeah,
he comes out of it in a very interesting way,
like he decides to deal with that in a very
interesting way, and by just going out west and becoming
a cowboy, which is not anything close to what he's
been doing or training for, has any experience with. He
just decides, Yeah, actually, I'm just gonna get out of here.
(26:48):
I need to change things up.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
Yeah. So he is a young father again social moores
of the era a quite different from our day and age.
He basically hands his baby girl off to his family
and kind of says, yeah, I need to disappear for
a while, like he and I. My goodness, I've never
(27:10):
been in the shoes. I cannot even try to fathom
what that's like. He's trying to wrap his head around
fatherhood and the love of his life. It's not like
this was a marriage of convenience. He loved his wife.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
He had to work really hard to get like he
gave a lot of effort into trying to make that happen.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
So yeah, he's devastated. And then again mom is gone
right like so much Tragy at once. So yeah, he
you know, think about the era as well. We're in
the eighteen eighties, the closing of the frontier quote unquote
as we often conceive of that is eighteen ninety. So
this is still the wild West. This is a place
(27:47):
where honestly, a lot of people who they want to
have a fresh start, they want to hit reset on life.
You head west. It's not like today where you know
you're the internet is going to follow you with your resume.
Out there. You have plenty of stories of people who
really they just botch it in like they head west
to go west one thousand miles. No one knows you,
(28:08):
nothing follows you. And you know, someone who might have
been a low level criminal in one town is now
the sheriff out west. It's a fascinating phenomenon. But he
heads out there and he continues to build that body
of his, this rugged rough life. He puts on like
thirty pounds of muscle. If you've seen the photos of
(28:31):
young Theodore Roosevelt as a student at Harvard, dude look
like a circa. As a child of the eighties and nineties,
dude look like a nineteen nineties Abercronian Fitch model. There's
this photo of him kind of seated with his arms
crossed in a chair and he has no shirt on,
(28:52):
just pants on. I believe he'd been rowing. He's already
ripped and so now you know, we're just building on
the more. He ends up doing a bit of law enforcement,
playing kind of the sheriff role. My favorite instance is
in the bad Lands. He goes into a bar one night,
gets a drink, and as happens out in the wild West,
(29:14):
he gets this character who starts kind of giving him
a hard time. He's calling him four eyes. Tr lets
it slide a few times because again, he's a gentleman, right,
he's a gentleman. He's a cowboy. Now cowboys are gentleman.
That it all fits, and this guy just won't let up.
He tells tir that he is going to buy him
(29:34):
a drink, and he's starting to get a little rough.
So finally ted he's done with it, the four eyed
boxer puts his beer down. This guy has guns. He's
pulled guns. Let's let's not forget that part of the story. Yeah,
boom slams him in the face, just a one two punch.
This guy is on the ground, his guns go off
as he's falling, knocked out. The whole bar just to
(29:58):
erupts in cheers because they all know that this as
a total dirt bag. Yeah, that's probably not the first
time he's done this. Exactly harasses people, he threatens, menaces,
uses his guns to force you know, people he thinks
are week to buy a beer. Tr He hates bullies,
remember his childhood, the weak kid. There's nothing that gets
(30:19):
under his skin more than a bully. You know. He
built the skill set and the body to be able
to deal with bullys.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
So yeah, yeah, And there's another story from that time
period where where these guys steal his boat, Like this
guy named Mike Finnegan and these two other guys steal
Roosevelt's boat and then he's so upset about it he
tracks him down for like two weeks. He pursues them
through the Dakota bad Lands until he finds them and
kicks their ass and gets his boat back.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
Exactly, tr were alive today. He's the type of guy
who'd put you know, one of those Apple Air tags
on his computer or whatever. He used to like, find
my phone, someone stole his thing. He would show up
at that person's house.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
Yeah, pound on.
Speaker 3 (30:57):
The door when they open it, justly, still my package.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
Yeah. He's the hero that we all need.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
Want, and that's kind of what he became, you know
as president. Right that the idea that he he wanted
to know for all his imperfections. Again, I don't want
to say like the man walked on water, of course
he didn't, but that's the kind of attitude he carried
with him. He had a very strong sense of justice
for himself and for others, and when that went awry,
(31:27):
it set him off.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
And he applied that a couple of years after the
bad Lands, that sense of justice when he became the
police commissioner for New York. Yeah, he returned and was
one of the younger police commissioners in NYPD history. But
I love the stories from that type period of him
kind of dressing up like a patrolman and walking the
(31:49):
streets even though he was commissioner, which I believe was
an elected office at the time.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
Yes, so he is commissioner and or one of excuse me,
I believe there are four memory serves. But actually my
favorite instance is the way he policed his own police,
his men. So he wouldn't just walk the beat, which
he was happy to do. He would walk in the
middle of the night go out with his buddy Jacob Reese,
famous author of the era. The two of them had
(32:16):
become tight and he would, you know, very much dressed down.
He'd just go up check out what the officers are doing.
And he was taken down. Names. Of course, the officers
thought nothing of it, right, they just think, who's this
jerk out at three am? Well, that jerk is actually
someone who can get your badge, take your yea, And
he's noting that you are with a prostitute at three am,
(32:38):
not walking the streets like you're supposed to be. And
he would confront them. So he really cleaned up. You know,
nothing but love and respect to any police officers listening.
But corruption is a thing in any organization. He went
in there and rooted out a lot of corruption in
(32:58):
the New York Police Force.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
A lot of the cops I know also hate corrupt coups. So, right,
one thing we can all agree on is we want
to get rid of the corrupt companies that are taking
right from the mafia guy exactly.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
And I think nothing ruins that more. Right, this is
an important institution and a position of trust, and Tier
understood that, and he was going to make sure that
NYPD lift up to that.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
And so so in eighteen ninety seven he gets bumped
up to be the assistant Secretary of the Navy. And
how does that happen from a police commissioner to the
assistant secretary of the Navy. Is he just kind of.
Speaker 3 (33:36):
Honestly, we're into networking, you know, he's he's dialed in,
he's plugged in. He's an important mover and shaker within
the Republican Party. That's really kind of how even got
to police commissioner. And he does have a military draw
so he's he's interested in that and in most importantly
within that position, he's all about modernizing the Navy. And
keep in mind that the United States doesn't really have
(33:58):
much of an army. There is an army at this point,
but since the Civil War, the US army has been
collapsed significantly. It's a very small force. That's where by
the time it gets World War One, there's going to
be hardly an army to enter the war. We're really
just talking like forts out west. That's kind of it.
So the Navy is America's big military branch. Of course,
(34:20):
there's no air force yet. The Right Brothers are five
years out from their monumental flight. So it's all about
the Navy, especially for a country that is now see
the Shining Sea occupies the coast of the Pacific, and
the Atlantic is very much cut off him anyways from
its main trading partners. Still very focused on Europe. Plenty
(34:42):
of trade with Latin America, yes, but a lot of
that's reached by ship. So in this world, really the
navy is most important, but he's all about modernizing it.
We have new technologies coming out. We're still pre the Dreadnought,
which comes out in nineteen oh six, but he wants
to see the United States able to handle itself. And
then of course the Spanish American War comes along.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
Right, which which I have heard stories that he basically
like unilaterally declared war even though he had absolutely no
authority to do so.
Speaker 3 (35:12):
Okay, so this right, As as I mentioned, I love
I love tr some of his imperfections. One of the
weak points of someone who has a strong moralistic sense
is uh, when they if they then start thinking that well,
they must be right unquestionably and will kind of push
(35:34):
some things that maybe aren't aren't there's to push.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
Benevolent dictatorship is the best form of government, right, So.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
He he does, I mean, and obviously he's not the
way Congress declares war That's that's how it works. The
president holds the power, but while his boss is away.
Uh yeah, this this cat does play. He he does
what he can to to make the most of things
that are brewing in the UH as we get to
(36:05):
the explosion of the USS main, and so, yeah, he's
a strong proponent. His boss basically comes back, he's like,
what the hell have you been up to? Yeah, and
you know, pretty quick he's like, oh yeah, hey, sorry
about that. By the way, peace out, I quit because
army time.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. So the USS main blows up in harbor.
America sends a warship to Cuba to cause trouble with
the Spanish, who are holding Cuba at the time. They
also sail it. The main gets blown up, possibly by
just a drunk sailor on the boat.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
We don't really know still and never will know the cause. Yeah,
but yellow journalism, Matt's finest was happy to be like,
this is super Spain's fault.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
Yeah, definitely Spanish, Definitely. The Spanish snuck into our into
the harbor and blew up our blew up our boat.
And so then Roosevelt sends, you know, Admiral Dewey's fleet
to the Philippines, which is also controlled by Spain at
the time, and gives the order for Admiral Dewey, who
famously says, you may fire when ready gridly, and they
(37:08):
think the entire fleet stationed at outside Manila in about
four hours. And now we're at war and it's mostly
Teddy Roosevelt's fault. And then yeah, like you said, he
just completely bails. He's like, all right, yeah, I quit,
and I'm going to go raise a regiment of cavalry
and go fight in this war.
Speaker 3 (37:25):
Which you know, so many things that we could get
into right about the issues of the Spanish American war,
having this war, it's real purpose, the righteousness or lack
thereof on it setting those not dismissing them. But since
that's not our focus, our focus is tr and who
(37:45):
he is. I think it's very interesting to see a
guy who says, let me walk away from my cushy job.
It's pretty high ranked, pretty significant because I want to
be at the front. I want to risk at shot
at It's not that the man has a death wish,
but again it's speaks to he believes in this cause
and he is not about to have a war happen
where he's not the one who takes the risk.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
He is not.
Speaker 3 (38:09):
I think there's something very commendable to a leader who
says war has been declared. I'm not going to sit
here and send young men to die. I am going
to go out there with them and risk the chance
that I might die.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
I think we need more of that today too. Honestly,
these are.
Speaker 3 (38:23):
Again, Yeah, these are the things that I really admire
and appreciate about.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
Yeah. And so he goes off to the war. He
raises a volunteer cavalry regiment, the rough Riders, and they
have a they it all works out for him. They
get their moment of glory in fighting in Cuba.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
Yep, Kettle Hill. To be clear, it's Kettle Hill. Let's
just go ahead and clarify that.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
I heard San Juan Hill.
Speaker 3 (38:51):
Yeah, I know, the Battle of San Juan Hill. They're
on the smaller hill next to it. It's Kettle Hill.
Everyone thinks that Teddy went up.
Speaker 1 (38:59):
The other one. Get that's what you're taking in front
of the wrong one. It's like Bunker Hill. This Bunker
Hill is the same thing the battle exactly exactly. Yep,
it's exactly that thing. But Yeah, they charged. They charged
the Spanish at at the Battle of San Juan Hill,
which took place apparently on the other hill.
Speaker 3 (39:15):
And it doesn't have the same ring to it, right
like Kettle Hill.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
And it sounds like a cartoon, you know, it does.
Speaker 3 (39:24):
It really does. Yeah, But you know this is an
important catalyst to him becoming president. In many ways, t
R has made himself too many enemies in his party.
The man again, he's he's not playing by the rules enough, right,
So they want to get him out of the way,
and they have to worry about getting out because the
(39:44):
people like him so much. The dude's a war hero.
The man's built such a reputation the Medal of Honor. Right,
So when you have a Medal of Honor recipient who
is known for, you know, being a badass out in
the bad lands and cleaning up the streets and and
kicking out corruption in New York and now he's a
war hero. Yeah, this guy is really starting to look
(40:06):
like a presidential contender. But the Republican Party is terrified
of him because he doesn't toe the party lineup. So
what do you do when you got someone like that
who's popular, but you want to get him out of
the way.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
Vice president nice well nice.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
From the party's point of view, how does this sit
with tr Well?
Speaker 3 (40:27):
Yeah, tr is not necessarily a big fan of this position.
The party itself actually has plenty of consternation within it.
He actually was interested in being governor of New York.
Speaker 1 (40:39):
That was his draw.
Speaker 3 (40:41):
He's being pushed and pressured towards jumping on ticket. Obviously
he ultimately goes for it. But you have other party
bosses outside of New York who going what are you doing?
You just put this damn cowboy to quote them, You
just put that damn cowboy a heartbeat away from the
White House, which you know, of course, to think of
(41:03):
Will's our boy, right, Will's healthy, He's good, that's not
a problem. But assassins can make healthy presidents unhealthy. Yeah,
And of course he's assassinated September nineteen oh one, Meet
and great and out outcomes a gun.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
He struggles for.
Speaker 3 (41:26):
His life for a bit, but very quickly early on
in this second term, and that turns out to really
be TR's first term, and of course he runs with it.
This is not just an accidental president who is gonna
be a placeholder.
Speaker 1 (41:45):
Yeah, he's been planning for this, and the assassination happens
very early after the inauguration, so he's got the full.
Speaker 3 (41:53):
Term here pretty much to operate with. Yeah, and you know,
here here he goes making some serious waves as he
pushes for his vision of what will give the American
people a square deal?
Speaker 1 (42:11):
And so what does that look like as president? Because
that's kind of kind of how we all think of
him as as being the president. And so he he
did a lot of things that I think are really
pretty amazing. Yes, so.
Speaker 3 (42:27):
There are a few things that that he does. I
mean that the three c's are probably the best way
to sum him up quickly. Consumer protection, corporate regulation, conservationism.
That's how historia now in Panama. Yeah, so to you know,
in broad strokes, good grief, it's more like, what doesn't
he do?
Speaker 2 (42:48):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (42:48):
He basically we had our first national park out there
that that process head had begun. But he expands national
parks in an absolutely unprecedented way.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
He preserved forests.
Speaker 3 (43:01):
He's very concerned with nature, something that would probably surprise
some people to know in our modern way of thinking
the things. He's a massive conservation is because he is
a hardcore hunter and he has to pay attention to
the ecosystem exactly. So he understands that he has to
respect and care about nature if that is going to continue.
(43:24):
So he's that's where his deep love and protection of well,
his conservationism protection of nature, that's where it originates. You know.
Keep in mind that we're coming out of this era
where the buffalo has nearly been annihilated and tr He
feels the nation standing on this precipice of destroying its
natural beauty and several various species, and goes, we have
(43:47):
to take steps to ensure that these things will survive
in perpetuity.
Speaker 1 (43:52):
Yeah, why don't bulldoze this forest and put a factory
in there? Exactly?
Speaker 3 (43:56):
And yet he's no enemy of you know, quote unquote
progress either that. Uh, these are the sorts of you know, nuances.
I really respect and appreciate about him. He he understands
the need for big business. He In fact, one of
the things he complains about when Howard Taft comes in
as president after him is he says, Taft's just breaking
(44:19):
up big corporations because they're big. That's not why you
break up a corporation. You're big, you break up a
corporation because they are abusing their power and their size.
And you know that to me just again shows it's
a thoughtful approach. Anyhow, I've jumped all over the place.
(44:40):
But that does get to his trust busting. H Taft
will actually bust more trust than him, but tr is
far more famous for it. He starts this process, uh
and trusts by the way, that that's just the term
for like massive, massive freaking companies.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
Yeah, huge monopolies that are basically abusing their workers and
making prices, you know, abusing consumers and employees.
Speaker 3 (45:04):
Well, and the thing to that's crucial, I think to
understanding why tr is the one who starts this down
this road. First of all, it should have been done sooner.
But we're coming out of the Gilded Age and companies
on the backs of railroads, a far more interconnected nation technique.
The shifts of the Industrial Revolution has allowed the creation
(45:28):
of products and the movement of products on such a
far larger scale and level that this is the first
time we have several of these super trans state I'll say,
you know, corporations. Previously, if you go back to say
the revolutionary era, John Hancock, richest guy in Boston. Okay,
but him being the richest guy in Boston pales compared
(45:50):
to Rockefeller or JP Morgan and so forth being the
richest Americans.
Speaker 1 (45:56):
Right. It's like the billionaires today too, right where it's
just like you can not imagine the scope of how
much money they have, right, And it's.
Speaker 3 (46:03):
Right, yeah, So that's that's what he What he's tackling
is a new problem. This isn't something that presidents before
the Second Industrial Revolution even had to grapple with. We
never had companies of these sizes before, and he has
no problem grappling with it, which is a real struggle
(46:25):
for you know, suddenly Republicans usually consistently falling with in
line with big business, and now you've got big business
and they don't know what to do with this guy
because he's also kind of one of them. He's a
blue blood in New Yorker, and he's sort of with
them at times because he doesn't always go along with
everything that you know, the striking parties want. He really
(46:48):
wants to just sit the table and have a square deal.
So it just perplexes. It's really funny to see, like
the donations that come in from say Rockefeller and JP
Morgan when he runs for president his second term.
Speaker 1 (47:03):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (47:04):
One of them said, you know, we bought the son
of a bitch and he didn't stay bought. Yeah, they
tonate thinking they're going to get curry favor. Tr doesn't
do that. TR is not about about favors. He is
going to stick to his sense of morality.
Speaker 1 (47:21):
Yeah, which is great, which is another thing that we
need more of in politics and in business, that in
all manner of all aspects of our lives. So that's
the first two c's right, we hit conservation and we
hate corporate regulation. What was the third one?
Speaker 3 (47:37):
Consumer protection? I think you know your go to example
there is the FDA. There are other examples, but he
he's the one who creates the Federal Drug Administration.
Speaker 1 (47:49):
And you know it's really with all those snake oil salesmen. Yes, yes,
out west.
Speaker 3 (47:55):
Well, but the really funny thing is the impetus for
that is reading The Jungle. Now The Uncle is a
book by Upton Sinclair. You're familiar, and Upton Sinclair is
actually a devote socialist trying to push socialism. The story
is meant to talk about the struggle of the workers,
and of course in the end they unite, right and
socialism Happily or After is his take, right, because he's
(48:19):
a devout believing socialist, so it's the answer. Well, a
lot of Americans do start reading the book because it
is compelling read, but they're not getting the Marxist message
that he wants. They're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, there's
what in my meat?
Speaker 1 (48:33):
Yeah? Whoa.
Speaker 2 (48:34):
So, to be fair, it is a useful message to
be getting.
Speaker 3 (48:38):
It is. But Upton opined that I meant to hit
them in their hearts and I hit them in the stomach,
which I just think is hilarious. So you know, Teddy
reads this and he's like, okay, this is this is
a problem. Now he's not going to trust the socialist
because again, this guy he's not he's just not extreme
in any direction, right, But he's also not going to
discount the socialist. So he sends his own investigator to
(49:00):
go look at meat packing plants and say, okay, I
don't know if I can buy we often selling huh
no pun intended as wire about social author, but that's okay,
but I want you to go look into this. Right
is this true? And of course yes it is that
Upton's research in his process for writing what was a
work of fiction, but nonetheless it was a very realistic
depiction of the horrendous process by which meat was being
(49:23):
prepared and like sawdust is being used to like basically you.
Speaker 1 (49:28):
Get ground is not gluten free, Yeah, no, super not
gluten free, not at least, Yeah, very unsanitary practices.
Speaker 3 (49:36):
So the FDA is born in an effort to protect Americans.
Speaker 1 (49:40):
Okay, Okay, well I'm just gonna have to stop here
because we have to go do ads real quick. Okay,
welcome back, let's continue. You know, the big work that
he completes, you know, so he does the FDA, the
(50:01):
all of the National Park's huge, huge amounts of National park,
you know, and the big ones right Yosemite, Yellowstone, and
then he completes the He builds the Panama Canal to
help with with trade and shipping and basically all manner
of makes everybody's life easier to have the Panama Canalesians.
Speaker 3 (50:22):
Remember, well, actually the Panamanians like it. It's it's Columbia
that doesn't like it. Okay, so he's good with a
coup that didn't necessarily need to happen. But yeah, that
that's a very man I'd need like an hour for
that well, and that's what I took in my own episode.
But the Panama Canal has been a dream for people
(50:42):
around the world for I mean centuries in some ways.
And there are certainly a million problems with how it's
brought to fruition, but tr is the one that pushes
this thing through after the French absolutely fail to do it.
Now it's not actually completed until Jow Wilson's presidency, but
the Panama Canal does not happen without Theodore Roosevelt. And
(51:06):
one of the most badass photos of TR is him
and his white Panamanian you know hat in his linen suit.
How that thing is pristine? I have no idea, you know,
sitting at the controls of one of their big I
think it was an excavator of sorts on his visit
to the Panama Canal during its construction.
Speaker 1 (51:26):
That's awesome. And one one thing I love about Roosevelt
at this point is that he helps negotiate the end
to the Russo Japanese War. So Russia, Russia and Japan
are having territorial dispute in the Manchuria area, they're having
a war. It's pretty bloody and Roosevelt comes in and
(51:47):
he helps negotiate the peace, which is cool. But the
thing that I really like out of that story is
that he receives the Nobel Peace Prize for brokering the deal.
And he does. It makes me think, like, how many
people in history have received the Nobel Peace Prize and
also they're country's like highest medal of like military. It's
(52:11):
like him and maybe like Mustafa Kamal Aditur. I don't know,
but I can't think there's I can't imagine there's many
people who have like that version of the egot like to.
Speaker 3 (52:23):
Well and in so many any ways that does you know,
it sums up the you know this the speak softly,
carry a big stick tru.
Speaker 1 (52:35):
Which is a quote that is attributed to him generally.
Speaker 3 (52:37):
Yes, yeah, it sums up his foreign policy. Uh, this
is a guy who is not afraid to throw a punch,
but he doesn't. He also doesn't seek to And I
really do think not to overly play child psychologists, but
it goes back to you know, this kid who didn't
like bullies, and you can see elements of that as
imperfectly as it may have been executed at various points.
(53:00):
You see that thread follow him throughout his entire life.
This is a man who stands up to bullies. It
doesn't matter if that bully is a big corporation. It
doesn't matter if that bully is perhaps in some way
the union that's engaging with that corporation. It doesn't matter,
you know, is it a legislator, is it a foreign country?
(53:22):
And not to say he always calls it right, but
he when he sees a bully, he stands up. Yeah,
and so, but not everybody loved Teddy Roosevelt because somebody
took a shot at him. Absolutely, And look, you're if
everybody loves you, you're probably not actually standing up for anything.
(53:44):
That it's impossible to be liked by everybody. And I
realize that that tr isn't everybody's cup of tea. And
they're playing good reasons, you know, or plenty valid reasons
for that. He after he leaves the White House, Howard
Taft succeeds him, He thinks Tafft is going to be,
you know, basically him two point zero in his estimation.
(54:04):
Taft does not. Taff feels like he's carrying on their
legacy just fine. But tr comes back and says, fine,
I'm gonna run for president again, splits the Republican Party.
We end up with his own party, the Bull Moose Party,
which effectively just splits the Republican ticket, ensures that Democrat
Woodrow Wilson ultimately wins. But during this campaign and a
(54:25):
would be assassin does approach him as he's getting into
a car and shoots him. The bullet hits his speech.
It's a fifty page speech folded up, so those one
hundred pages, it's close to that. That slows it down,
and then it hits his spectacles. He has a he
had his in his pocket. The case. It's a strong
(54:48):
metal case. It deflects the bullet a bit too, so
it does go in, but it doesn't get into his lungs.
So he notices after he gets shot he's breathing again.
This is a colonel, right. The man has seen a
lot of death and injuries on the battlefield. They want
to rush into the hospital. He's got speaking of it.
He's sitting there going no blood, no blood when I
(55:11):
breathe take me to my speech. I can use du up,
wraps it up.
Speaker 2 (55:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (55:17):
It does his best to keep the blood, but of
course it seeps through. He's up there. He just goes on,
he does his thing. The dude speaks. He's got a
bullet wound in him. He's bleeding out at the podium
as he shares his message series exactly if there is,
if there is an act of presidency that's more badass
(55:37):
than that, I it's not coming to mind for me
right right at this moment.
Speaker 1 (55:41):
I don't. Yeah, it would be extremely difficult to top that.
The war hero, Nobel Priest Prize winner giving a speech
with a bullet in his chest, and I think he
opens the speech with that like, hey, you know, I'm like, yes,
maybe that short because I got shot in the chest
like five minutes ago, and streak crab.
Speaker 3 (55:58):
You know, yeah, what's up in my chest? Let's talk.
Speaker 1 (56:04):
I'll fight for you guys. Yeah. So he doesn't win
that election and he kind of retires, and in his
retirement he does very Teddy Roosevelt things, or excuse me,
he does very Theodore Roosevelt things. He goes to Africa
and he hunts leopards and rhinos and elephants. He goes
(56:24):
to Brazil and explores the Amazon River and gets a
tributary of the Amazon named after him. He's actually very famous.
My wife is from Brazil and I spend a lot
of time down there, and they love him down there because, yeah, because.
Speaker 3 (56:40):
He and he nearly dies in the process.
Speaker 1 (56:42):
Yeah, he almost dies in the process. The guy that
took him through on that trip, Candido Rondon, has like
a state named after him in Brazil. He's this huge
hero down there. He was the guide on that trip
and he's like a really really interesting guy. I want
to do an episode about him at some point in
the future. Yeah, we will do that. But Greg, we've
(57:03):
kept you for long enough that we've covered most of
the broad strokes of Theodore Roosevelt. You dig into it
a lot deeper on your podcast history that doesn't suck.
So if you guys enjoyed this episode, I encourage you
to go and listen to that. Greg, thank you so much.
We really appreciate you taking out your time to come
(57:24):
talk to us here. And is there where where can
people find you? Are you working on? Are you on
social media at all?
Speaker 3 (57:32):
I am AHGDS pod on Twitter and it just history
that doesn't suck on Insta, Facebook, and of course just
wherever you get your podcast history that doesn't suck htdspodcast
dot com is my website so you can I have
a national tour going on right now. If you'd be
interested in seeing me live, you can get the details
(57:53):
there and you know everything else that I'm up to.
Speaker 1 (57:56):
Awesome. Well, thank you so much for being on the show.
We really appreciate having you. Hey, my pleasure and thank
you guys for listening, and we'll see you on the
next one.
Speaker 2 (58:04):
Yeah, stay badass and carry a big stick. Badass of
the Week is an iHeartRadio podcast produced by High five Content.
Executive producers are Andrew Jacobs, Me, Pat Larish, and my
co host Ben Thompson. Writing is by me and Ben.
Story editing is by Ian Jacobs Brandon Phibbs. Mixing and
(58:25):
music and sound design is by Jude Brewer. Special thanks
to Noel Brown at iHeart. Badass of the Week is
based on the website Badass of Theweek dot com, where
you can read all sorts of stories about other badasses.
If you want to reach out with questions ideas, you
can email us at Badass Podcast at badassoftheweek dot com.
(58:49):
If you like the podcast, subscribe, follow, listen, and tell
your friends and your enemies. If you want as We'll
be back next week with another one. For more podcasts
from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you get your podcasts.
Badass of the Week is an iHeartRadio podcast produced by
High five Content. Theodore Roosevelt calmly draws a white handkerchief
from his jacket, holds it to his mouth, and coughs
into it. He inspects the cloth. There's no blood. That's good.
It means he's not bleeding internally, he would know. In
(00:20):
his long and colorful career, Roosevelt had been an amateur
boxer and cattle rancher. His fist fought outlaws in the
Dakota's battled corruption as commissioner of the New York City's
Police Department, served as President of the United States twice,
created national parks, hunted lions in Africa, and discovered unsharded
wilderness in Brazil. Received a Nobel Peace Prize for negotiating
(00:43):
the end to the Russo Japanese War, and also received
the Medal of Honor for leading a cavalry charge into
Spanish lion infantry at the Battle of San Juan Hill,
the decisive battle in the Spanish American War, a war
that he started almost unilaterally, despite having no authority to
do so. It is October fourteenth, nineteen twelve, and Theodore
(01:06):
Roosevelt has just been shot in the chest at close
range by an assassin. As his supporters grab the gunman
and restrain him, Roosevelt demands that no harm be done
to the man. He tells the rest of his supporters
to take their seats because Theodore Roosevelt is about to
give an eighty two minute campaign speech with a thirty
(01:28):
eight caliber bullet lodged in his chest. Hello, and welcome
back to Badass of the Week. My name is Ben
Thompson and I am here as always with my co host,
doctor Pat Larish. Pat, how are you doing today?
Speaker 2 (01:47):
I'm doing okay, good looking forward today's episode.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Yeah, we have a really special episode for you guys.
Today we have a really special guest that we're very
excited to have on the show. I want to interduce
Professor Greg Jackson. He's the host of History that Doesn't Suck. Greg,
thank you so much for being here and giving us
your time to come and talk about some cool historical badasses.
(02:11):
We are very excited about the prospect of having an
episode of this show that Doesn't Suck.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
I was well played. It's my pleasure to be here.
Thanks so much for having me. Ben.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
I've been thinking about that one I've I've been working
on that joke all day, so I'm glad that, oh
it landed. We're off to a strong start. That's right. So, Greg,
why don't you just briefly kind of walk us through
your show what you do for History Doesn't Suck and
(02:43):
kind of how you got into the idea of podcasting
and creating your show.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
Sure, so you know the little tag I put at
the beginning of every episode, History that Doesn't Suck is
a bi weekly podcast delivering I legit seriously researched, hard
hitting history of American history through entertained stories that really
kind of sums it up. The thing for me was
back in twenty seventeen is when I started it. As
you said, I am a professor. I'm a professor at
(03:10):
Utah Valley University, and I was looking through podcasts, honestly,
looking for something that I would want to listen to.
And there are plenty of wonderful podcasts out there, But I,
in my mind saw what if you'll indulge a little
bit of academia talk. I saw a gaping hole in
the podcast historiography if you will. In my mind, we
(03:34):
had a lot of well done, highly entertaining podcasts out there,
and they were done by mostly either amateurs or you know,
just people who aren't trained in history. And then you
had us academics who bless us. We mike it a
little esoteric. We might lack at times on the ability
(03:59):
to actually tell a good yard the irony for history.
You know, story is in the word, but you know
that's that's not the way that it works on the
professional level. And in my mind, there is a way
to merge the best of academia, the rigor the systematic approach,
the methodology that I was trained and taught to use
(04:20):
through a PhD program, and so I wanted to take
that but merge it with some of the storytelling, the
fun side, if you will. And part of that was
driven by my classroom experience. My students love the way
I lecture and tend to tell a story. I love
(04:40):
to use stories to bring to life what are otherwise
just names and dates. No one cares about names and dates,
but when you get to know the person, then history
comes to life.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Yeah. I love that. I've always kind of said that
as well, when people are talking to me about some
of the badass stuff where it's like you know, a
lot of history tends to be a bunch of old,
dead white guys, and you have to memorize their birthdays.
And I think the people who generally love history had
one person who could make the stories real and make
them real people who had like real problems and you know,
(05:13):
exact really challenges. And you know, for the Battus of
the Week podcast, we actually need a two person team
to accomplish what you're doing. Pat is the trained academic
and I'm the amateur podcaster storytelling.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Hey, these are I've come to appreciate very much in
this process. How much I'm of course not discounting that
whole PhD process, but I will tell you it's grueling
and you get in crucial training. But storytelling is a
separate skill set. It's it's an art, and uh, having
(05:48):
a pH d in history does not give you that. Paty,
I'm sure you've seen this. Will sometimes opine, like you
get together at a conference and scratch their heads. Why
are people not reading more of what we write? Well,
that's because we don't. We don't tell stories very well.
We're it sometimes feels like we are trying to lose
(06:08):
people in jargon. So we rock the footnotes. That's right,
Chicago style for life.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Yes, so what are you what are you working on now?
So it looked kind of for for history that doesn't suck.
It looks like you're kind of taking a chronological approach
to US history. And so where are you at right now? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (06:35):
So first of all, that's very intentional again to the
space I want to fill is that fun storytelling. Gifted
storytellers are inclined to methodologically basically create what we would
call survey in the college experience. I am intentionally creating
a podcast that is a survey of US history to
make it sound as boring as I can. This is
(06:57):
your audio textbook, but of course it doesn't fee like that.
So I'm I'm very uh forthright in what my my
goal is and is to make this a textbook of sorts.
But I masked that medicine in the ice cream. That
is storytelling, So moving chronologically, Yes, sometimes some themes kind
(07:18):
of make the chronology a little more difficult to do,
but by and large we managed to stick to that.
Right now, we're wrapping up World War One. So just
a few days ago I recorded the first of a
two part episode on the Music Gun offensive. That's the
last major offensive of World War One. Pat, you know
exactly I'm talking about Ben, Not to dismiss you. Pat
(07:42):
just really lit up.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
So well, isn't that Ben?
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Didn't we share me? We did share me, share.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Me the pigeon, And of course.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Shae gets his moment, his time to shine or get shot,
as the case may be, our brave little pigeon carrier.
I'm not going up to present day. At made that
very clear to listeners every time they ask. I think
there's a line to be drawn between being a historian
and being a reporter. So I have no interest in
(08:15):
crossing that line.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Yeah, okay, Well, when we when we asked you to
come and you very graciously agreed to come join our show,
we just said, you know, who do you want to
talk about? Who's your favorite badass from American history that
you would want to talk about on the show. And
you picked one of my favorites, so I was very excited.
I'm very excited to talk about him. You picked President
(08:40):
Theodore Roosevelt, who I love and who is awesome, and
we are going to get into why very quickly. But
but but Greg, can you give us just kind of
a general overview of of Teddy Roosevelt and why why
you picked him?
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Yeah, Theodore Roosevelt is uh he he embodies America at
its best. I would say, when you think about the
American dream, the right, the idea of of making yourself better,
of striving for something greater, the man was born with
(09:18):
silver spoon in his mouth. Let's go ahead and acknowledge that.
But this is a man who, or rather let's go
back to even being a boy, right, and a child
who read about great men. Uh In in his era
that far far more stories about men than women. So
I do use that word very intentionally that this is
(09:41):
the Gilded Age, progressive era. You know, he's born even
even earlier. So, but he sees these role models and
he very intentionally says to himself, I want to be
not so much in a I mean, he has playing
of ego. Like like any anyone who ends up in
the White House, you gotta have a pretty healthy degree
of self confidence, let's say. But this is someone who says,
(10:06):
who says to himself, I want to be a better person.
I want to live up to the examples of the
best who came before me. And he takes very intentional
steps to do that. That at its core is what
I love about Teddy Roosevelt in terms of who he
is and how he pushes himself. But then another thing
I'd add to that that the second layer, the ko punch.
(10:26):
Since we are talking about a boxer here.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
Yeah, he was a.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
President, but he's a boxer too. He's not just looking
out for himself. He doesn't just want to be his best.
He wants his nation, and by nation he means his
fellow Americans. He wants them to have their best opportunities
to be them to be their best selves. It's so
(10:50):
well summed up in his slogan as president, a square deal.
He wants everyone to have a square deal, and by
that he means the ability to be their best selves
to you know, to be able to start a business
or even just hold a decent job and have a
(11:10):
fair shake. It's not to say you won't work hard
or have struggles, but everyone should be able to have
at least a fair shake. And he fought tooth and
nail as a legislator, has a freaking rich New Yorker
turned bad Land cowboy to police chief back in New York.
(11:35):
Whether he's on the battlefield in the Spanish American War
to President. You know, I'm not saying that every decision
he made was Alice the right one, but never once,
in my estimation, did did Teddy. Even if he made
a decision that was perhaps selfish for himself, I don't
think he ever did so realizing it was selfish. It
(11:56):
was he was always thinking about others.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Well, okay, well we are going to get into it.
We're going to take a really quick break for a
word from our sponsors, and then when we get back
to it, we are going to talk about Theodore Roosevelt. Okay,
(12:20):
welcome back. We are here with Professor Greg Jackson of
History that Doesn't Suck, and Greg, we're going to talk
about President Theodore Roosevelt, who is, in my opinion and
it sounds like yours, one of the most badass presidents
in American history. But when he got started, like as
a boy, he didn't project like he was going to
(12:42):
become one of the greatest badasses in all of American history.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
No, not at all. Theodore Roosevelt or he actually hated
being called Teddy. Let's go ahead and acknowledge that we
all call him Teddy hated being called Teddy is my
least favorite nickname, so we will call him t R.
Or the Colonel. That was his favorite nickname was the Colonel.
You don't want to be called President. I want to
be called the colonel as we get into his later years.
(13:07):
But we're talking childhood, so let me die that back.
Young tr Theodore Roosevelt. He's a very sickly child. He
he gets picked on quite a bit, and in fact,
he gets beaten up at one point by you know,
a group of kids. Today we would talk about bullying
and how not appropriate that is. This is the eighteen sixties,
(13:29):
and I don't know that that conversation quite happened.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
That conversation didn't happen for me in the nineteen eighties,
so I'm sure, yeah, right, yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
So when his father, you know, sees and trs from
a wealthy family. The Roosevelts are a deep pocketed, you know,
blue blood New Yorker bunch, his father says Teddy, because
you know he's little, you gotta build yourself. You can't
just build yourself here. Tr is a thinker. He's smart.
(13:59):
You got it yourself here, you know, pointing to his
arm and flex him and TIR sets about doing that.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
His father.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
Again, they're rich, right, so there's that luxury. His father
builds a nice in at home gym for him. But
as anyone knows who's ever either gotten a gym, passed
or gone for the at home gym, just buying the
peloton doesn't do the trick. You can get the fancy stuff,
you still got to actually sweat and work with it.
(14:26):
And so sickly asthmatic little tir he works and works
and works, and he actually overcomes asthma. Now, small medical disclaimer,
I don't think that works for everyone with asthma. Please
do not throw your inhaler away. His asthma was slight enough.
I mean it was significant, but slight enough. And I
(14:47):
don't know the details, but he was actually able to
overcome it, building up stronger lungs, building up his his
physical strength, and stronger heart. All that jazz. So he
builds body and doing that, in his mind, it teaches
him that hard work pays off, that we can build things.
(15:08):
He of course, he gets older, he goes to Harvard
because he's a blue blooded Yeah, exactly, of course he
goes to Harvard. He joins the boxing club. But again
this is not a kid who nature blessed physically, right,
This is not the guy who who magically would have
been the captain of the football team. He has terrible eyesight.
So he steps into the ring and he's got to
(15:28):
take his glasses off. So imagine, you know, this world
without contact, Imagine having blurry vision. You can't even see,
and you got your dukes up. Someone's swinging at you.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
He doesn't climbing into the ring with your glasses on, like,
hang on, I'm gonna take these off. The other guy's like, oh,
I'm going to smoke this nerve.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
But but he hangs in there. You know. He succeeds
in the Harvard Boxing club. One of my favorite stories
from his life actually is when he's a young Harvard
undergrad and he's in one of these fights. The bell rings,
his opponent honestly didn't hear the bell, and tr half
(16:07):
blind tr lets his guard down. Boom gets smacked right
in the face right off. The whole crowdy erups, you know,
booze and hisses absolutely angry, and tr calms the crowd down,
smiles at his opponent, grinning with the blood between his teeth,
(16:28):
and just says that's okay, you didn't know. We're fine,
we're good, and they carry on about. I don't even
remember which one of them won. But that little story,
that moment, it sums up who tr is. Most of
us can't take a punch to the face and smile
through the blood. Tr That's the type of person he is,
(16:49):
and that follows him through his life.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Yeah, and he smiled through the blood. He reached out
and made a connection with his opponent and was a
really good sport about it. And he also read the room. Yes,
he was able to connect with the crowd.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
It's all speaking to the sorts of things you need
as a politician, which he very quickly becomes. He's barely
out of Harvard and he's in the New York State legislature.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
There's one story I like from him at Harvard where
he was kind of talking a lot during class and
the professor got so flustered with them that he was like,
see here, Roosevelt, I am the one teaching this class.
So I imagine him to be well.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
And another important thing, I would call this one of
his weaknesses. I love tir to death. None of us
are perfect. Everybody has their imperfections, right, I wish Tiar
was a little more constitutionally minded than he is. But
that's also part of his goodness is that he's focused
on people and he doesn't like seeing technicalities get in
(17:57):
the way of good. Of course, that can have problems
because when you start blowing past technicalities, then bad people
can use I can do the same sort of things.
But we start to see some elements of this even
when he's a student, as he realizes he has no
interest in studying the law. What does he want to do.
(18:19):
He wants to write history. He's just writing history books
people do precisely as one of this. I hear really smart, cultured, attractive,
one might say, ruggedly handsome people write history.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
That's yeah, this is a podcast. On a podcast, no
one can tell that you're ruggedly handsome.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
But we have to tell them. We have to describe
it picture.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
And now now I'll start blushing. My goodness, I.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Was talking about I was actually I was actually just
talking about.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
Well played.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
Then I love that.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Okay, so tr.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
So, So tr goes into the state legislature. He learns
a lot of things. He's a staunch Republican, but he's
quick to learn So, for instance, he goes to pass
some legislation related to tobacco. He's doing basically the bidding
of the tobacco industry. And as he's going through this process,
(19:27):
a man comes up to him and says, Representative Roosevelt,
I don't think you understand what you're doing and how
that impacts me as as an actual employee and worker
in this industry. I invite you to come to my
home and see what it looks like on the other side.
I think there are I hate to say this, I
think there are a number of politicians out there who
would say, nope, I'm not walking into that trap. Right,
(19:50):
how'd you get in here exactly? Tr says, absolutely, you
got it. Named the day and time. He goes to
the man's home because the way cigars are rolled at
that point there isn't a factory. He walks into this cramp, dumpy,
little you know apartment, finds this immigrant living you know,
(20:10):
in part of the apartment, basically people living on top
of each other. And it's him and it's his wife,
and it's his kids and everyone. They're all rolling cigars
and they start talking about the pay scale and how
this works, and this is when Tierre goes, oh this
is I'm not I was not aware of this side
(20:32):
of the coin. He has these sorts of experiences, He's
open to them. This is a man who's ready and
willing to take in other sides. Now, it's not that
he and he doesn't flip entirely either. I think this
is the thing that I love and respect about Theodore
Roosevelt so much. If you are truly on a polar extreme,
(20:52):
he will never make you happy. As forceful and powerful
as this man can be in the room and speaking
his mind, uh, he's he honestly is never the extremist.
He's His speeches are. I love them. I think they
would probably drive They would drive any political party mad
because instead just going out there and hammering the talking
(21:13):
points and calling it today, he's caveating, caveating, nuanced, nuanced nuance.
You know. We this is why we need to take
care of the businessman, because the businessman is taking these
risks and putting this on the line d D. But
we've created these opportunities for him. He doesn't have a
right to walk on the workingman. None of this happens
without the workingman. But the working man needs to be
(21:34):
respectful of the right. He's so he's back and forth
and back and forth.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
A political moderate, can you imagine.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
Yeah, and yet we think of him as pushing as
he does. He pushes the progressive error. So it's not
like he's coming into this like chummy, hey guys, we
should all just always meet in the middle. No, he's
got positions that are definitely, you know, pushing into new places.
But he doesn't just kind of, you know, go for
(22:02):
I'm going to out liberal or I'm going to out
conservative everybody. He says exactly what he means, and he
listens before he gets to what he means.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
Yeah, that's really something we could use more of as well.
I think more of that kind of I love this guy. Yeah, yeah,
so yeah. He becomes the youngest state representative in New
York state history at twenty three, which I think in
one of the things I wrote about him once, I
said that I spent most of my twenty third year
playing Halo and he was a state representative in New York,
(22:35):
which is pretty amazing. And this is when around the
time he.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
Meets Alice, Right, so yeah, he he knows Alice at Harvard.
In fact, she is present for that boxing match that,
if memory serves me, maybe I'm conflating boxing matches, but
he would take her to the boxing match, because again,
what's the era. I mean, we're talking late nineteenth century.
We got some very classic ideas of masculinity. He's got
(23:03):
he's a man's man, is a dude who steps into
the boxing ring.
Speaker 4 (23:06):
Right, babe, watch me kick this guy's ass exactly, exactly,
you know, all the more reason to smile if he's
got blood in his mouth, because it's got to show
that even if he gets hit, man can take a punch, right.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
Yeah, Yeah, he can take a punch and be gracious
about it and yes with it.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
And because he's also elite, right, he's upper, he's upper echalance.
He's got to show that he is even if he
is a man's man, he's also a gentleman. Yes, right,
So he's all these things at once. But he does
he does ask her and she says no the first time.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
So it didn't. It didn't totally work just getting punched
in the It took more than just getting punched in
the face to win her over.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
It did it did? Yeah, And for any any listeners
out there thinking that their romance life will improve. If
they get hit in the face in front of their
love interest, that probably is not a solid play. I
would not.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Recommend that, as the week does not endorse getting punched
in face to impress your girlfriend. So tr and Alice
they get married. He has to ask her a couple
times before she agrees to marry him. But then, you know, fairly,
fairly soon after they're married, there is tragedy and oh
(24:16):
just a big, just a really hard Valentine's Day for
Theodore Roosevelt.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
February thirteenth, eighteen eighty four of memory serves, Yep, he
is an Albany with the state legislature. He just had
an amazing day, passed a bill. It's a really big deal.
Congratulations everywhere. Telegraph's coming in. His child's been born, so
he's on top of the world.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Right.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
Imagine this, whatever your career is, you just got like
all the accolades, big day, your first child's been born.
I mean this is especially in the era. This is
quite literally the dude busts out the cigar and you know,
poor little tumblr moment and then start coming telegrams that
same day. Your wife's not doing great. Your wife's turning
(25:05):
very poorly. You need to get home. You may never
see her again if you don't get home on the train.
I can only imagine, right, this is not our modern era.
There's no phone, there's no texting, he's not calling, no
internet connection and not even an old school phone call.
Just stick to his gut for hours on a train
gets off at what is today Grand Central Station then
(25:27):
it was the Train Central Depot, walks, walks home, and
death is knocking at the door and saying goes for
his mom. Within a twenty four hour cycle, his mother
and his wife both die, leaving him a brand new
(25:48):
father who's lost. I mean, as far as he's concerned
everything his diary. This is, in my mind, one of
the most expressive diary entries, and yet it is absolutely
lacking in language. He simply writes the light has gone
out of my life with a big black X across
(26:11):
the page.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
That is it. Wow, So just a really rough day,
for really rough twenty four hours.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
For yes, now that we've officially bummed out all of
your listeners.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Yeah, he goes into a dark place, very dark, but yeah,
he comes out of it in a very interesting way,
like he decides to deal with that in a very
interesting way, and by just going out west and becoming
a cowboy, which is not anything close to what he's
been doing or training for, has any experience with. He
just decides, Yeah, actually, I'm just gonna get out of here.
(26:48):
I need to change things up.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
Yeah. So he is a young father again social moores
of the era a quite different from our day and age.
He basically hands his baby girl off to his family
and kind of says, yeah, I need to disappear for
a while, like he and I. My goodness, I've never
(27:10):
been in the shoes. I cannot even try to fathom
what that's like. He's trying to wrap his head around
fatherhood and the love of his life. It's not like
this was a marriage of convenience. He loved his wife.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
He had to work really hard to get like he
gave a lot of effort into trying to make that happen.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
So yeah, he's devastated. And then again mom is gone
right like so much Tragy at once. So yeah, he
you know, think about the era as well. We're in
the eighteen eighties, the closing of the frontier quote unquote
as we often conceive of that is eighteen ninety. So
this is still the wild West. This is a place
(27:47):
where honestly, a lot of people who they want to
have a fresh start, they want to hit reset on life.
You head west. It's not like today where you know
you're the internet is going to follow you with your resume.
Out there. You have plenty of stories of people who
really they just botch it in like they head west
to go west one thousand miles. No one knows you,
(28:08):
nothing follows you. And you know, someone who might have
been a low level criminal in one town is now
the sheriff out west. It's a fascinating phenomenon. But he
heads out there and he continues to build that body
of his, this rugged rough life. He puts on like
thirty pounds of muscle. If you've seen the photos of
(28:31):
young Theodore Roosevelt as a student at Harvard, dude look
like a circa. As a child of the eighties and nineties,
dude look like a nineteen nineties Abercronian Fitch model. There's
this photo of him kind of seated with his arms
crossed in a chair and he has no shirt on,
(28:52):
just pants on. I believe he'd been rowing. He's already
ripped and so now you know, we're just building on
the more. He ends up doing a bit of law enforcement,
playing kind of the sheriff role. My favorite instance is
in the bad Lands. He goes into a bar one night,
gets a drink, and as happens out in the wild West,
(29:14):
he gets this character who starts kind of giving him
a hard time. He's calling him four eyes. Tr lets
it slide a few times because again, he's a gentleman, right,
he's a gentleman. He's a cowboy. Now cowboys are gentleman.
That it all fits, and this guy just won't let up.
He tells tir that he is going to buy him
(29:34):
a drink, and he's starting to get a little rough.
So finally ted he's done with it, the four eyed
boxer puts his beer down. This guy has guns. He's
pulled guns. Let's let's not forget that part of the story. Yeah,
boom slams him in the face, just a one two punch.
This guy is on the ground, his guns go off
as he's falling, knocked out. The whole bar just to
(29:58):
erupts in cheers because they all know that this as
a total dirt bag. Yeah, that's probably not the first
time he's done this. Exactly harasses people, he threatens, menaces,
uses his guns to force you know, people he thinks
are week to buy a beer. Tr He hates bullies,
remember his childhood, the weak kid. There's nothing that gets
(30:19):
under his skin more than a bully. You know. He
built the skill set and the body to be able
to deal with bullys.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
So yeah, yeah, And there's another story from that time
period where where these guys steal his boat, Like this
guy named Mike Finnegan and these two other guys steal
Roosevelt's boat and then he's so upset about it he
tracks him down for like two weeks. He pursues them
through the Dakota bad Lands until he finds them and
kicks their ass and gets his boat back.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
Exactly, tr were alive today. He's the type of guy
who'd put you know, one of those Apple Air tags
on his computer or whatever. He used to like, find
my phone, someone stole his thing. He would show up
at that person's house.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
Yeah, pound on.
Speaker 3 (30:57):
The door when they open it, justly, still my package.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
Yeah. He's the hero that we all need.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
Want, and that's kind of what he became, you know
as president. Right that the idea that he he wanted
to know for all his imperfections. Again, I don't want
to say like the man walked on water, of course
he didn't, but that's the kind of attitude he carried
with him. He had a very strong sense of justice
for himself and for others, and when that went awry,
(31:27):
it set him off.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
And he applied that a couple of years after the
bad Lands, that sense of justice when he became the
police commissioner for New York. Yeah, he returned and was
one of the younger police commissioners in NYPD history. But
I love the stories from that type period of him
kind of dressing up like a patrolman and walking the
(31:49):
streets even though he was commissioner, which I believe was
an elected office at the time.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
Yes, so he is commissioner and or one of excuse me,
I believe there are four memory serves. But actually my
favorite instance is the way he policed his own police,
his men. So he wouldn't just walk the beat, which
he was happy to do. He would walk in the
middle of the night go out with his buddy Jacob Reese,
famous author of the era. The two of them had
(32:16):
become tight and he would, you know, very much dressed down.
He'd just go up check out what the officers are doing.
And he was taken down. Names. Of course, the officers
thought nothing of it, right, they just think, who's this
jerk out at three am? Well, that jerk is actually
someone who can get your badge, take your yea, And
he's noting that you are with a prostitute at three am,
(32:38):
not walking the streets like you're supposed to be. And
he would confront them. So he really cleaned up. You know,
nothing but love and respect to any police officers listening.
But corruption is a thing in any organization. He went
in there and rooted out a lot of corruption in
(32:58):
the New York Police Force.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
A lot of the cops I know also hate corrupt coups. So, right,
one thing we can all agree on is we want
to get rid of the corrupt companies that are taking
right from the mafia guy exactly.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
And I think nothing ruins that more. Right, this is
an important institution and a position of trust, and Tier
understood that, and he was going to make sure that
NYPD lift up to that.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
And so so in eighteen ninety seven he gets bumped
up to be the assistant Secretary of the Navy. And
how does that happen from a police commissioner to the
assistant secretary of the Navy. Is he just kind of.
Speaker 3 (33:36):
Honestly, we're into networking, you know, he's he's dialed in,
he's plugged in. He's an important mover and shaker within
the Republican Party. That's really kind of how even got
to police commissioner. And he does have a military draw
so he's he's interested in that and in most importantly
within that position, he's all about modernizing the Navy. And
keep in mind that the United States doesn't really have
(33:58):
much of an army. There is an army at this point,
but since the Civil War, the US army has been
collapsed significantly. It's a very small force. That's where by
the time it gets World War One, there's going to
be hardly an army to enter the war. We're really
just talking like forts out west. That's kind of it.
So the Navy is America's big military branch. Of course,
(34:20):
there's no air force yet. The Right Brothers are five
years out from their monumental flight. So it's all about
the Navy, especially for a country that is now see
the Shining Sea occupies the coast of the Pacific, and
the Atlantic is very much cut off him anyways from
its main trading partners. Still very focused on Europe. Plenty
(34:42):
of trade with Latin America, yes, but a lot of
that's reached by ship. So in this world, really the
navy is most important, but he's all about modernizing it.
We have new technologies coming out. We're still pre the Dreadnought,
which comes out in nineteen oh six, but he wants
to see the United States able to handle itself. And
then of course the Spanish American War comes along.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
Right, which which I have heard stories that he basically
like unilaterally declared war even though he had absolutely no
authority to do so.
Speaker 3 (35:12):
Okay, so this right, As as I mentioned, I love
I love tr some of his imperfections. One of the
weak points of someone who has a strong moralistic sense
is uh, when they if they then start thinking that well,
they must be right unquestionably and will kind of push
(35:34):
some things that maybe aren't aren't there's to push.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
Benevolent dictatorship is the best form of government, right, So.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
He he does, I mean, and obviously he's not the
way Congress declares war That's that's how it works. The
president holds the power, but while his boss is away.
Uh yeah, this this cat does play. He he does
what he can to to make the most of things
that are brewing in the UH as we get to
(36:05):
the explosion of the USS main, and so, yeah, he's
a strong proponent. His boss basically comes back, he's like,
what the hell have you been up to? Yeah, and
you know, pretty quick he's like, oh yeah, hey, sorry
about that. By the way, peace out, I quit because
army time.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. So the USS main blows up in harbor.
America sends a warship to Cuba to cause trouble with
the Spanish, who are holding Cuba at the time. They
also sail it. The main gets blown up, possibly by
just a drunk sailor on the boat.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
We don't really know still and never will know the cause. Yeah,
but yellow journalism, Matt's finest was happy to be like,
this is super Spain's fault.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
Yeah, definitely Spanish, Definitely. The Spanish snuck into our into
the harbor and blew up our blew up our boat.
And so then Roosevelt sends, you know, Admiral Dewey's fleet
to the Philippines, which is also controlled by Spain at
the time, and gives the order for Admiral Dewey, who
famously says, you may fire when ready gridly, and they
(37:08):
think the entire fleet stationed at outside Manila in about
four hours. And now we're at war and it's mostly
Teddy Roosevelt's fault. And then yeah, like you said, he
just completely bails. He's like, all right, yeah, I quit,
and I'm going to go raise a regiment of cavalry
and go fight in this war.
Speaker 3 (37:25):
Which you know, so many things that we could get
into right about the issues of the Spanish American war,
having this war, it's real purpose, the righteousness or lack
thereof on it setting those not dismissing them. But since
that's not our focus, our focus is tr and who
(37:45):
he is. I think it's very interesting to see a
guy who says, let me walk away from my cushy job.
It's pretty high ranked, pretty significant because I want to
be at the front. I want to risk at shot
at It's not that the man has a death wish,
but again it's speaks to he believes in this cause
and he is not about to have a war happen
where he's not the one who takes the risk.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
He is not.
Speaker 3 (38:09):
I think there's something very commendable to a leader who
says war has been declared. I'm not going to sit
here and send young men to die. I am going
to go out there with them and risk the chance
that I might die.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
I think we need more of that today too. Honestly,
these are.
Speaker 3 (38:23):
Again, Yeah, these are the things that I really admire
and appreciate about.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
Yeah. And so he goes off to the war. He
raises a volunteer cavalry regiment, the rough Riders, and they
have a they it all works out for him. They
get their moment of glory in fighting in Cuba.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
Yep, Kettle Hill. To be clear, it's Kettle Hill. Let's
just go ahead and clarify that.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
I heard San Juan Hill.
Speaker 3 (38:51):
Yeah, I know, the Battle of San Juan Hill. They're
on the smaller hill next to it. It's Kettle Hill.
Everyone thinks that Teddy went up.
Speaker 1 (38:59):
The other one. Get that's what you're taking in front
of the wrong one. It's like Bunker Hill. This Bunker
Hill is the same thing the battle exactly exactly. Yep,
it's exactly that thing. But Yeah, they charged. They charged
the Spanish at at the Battle of San Juan Hill,
which took place apparently on the other hill.
Speaker 3 (39:15):
And it doesn't have the same ring to it, right
like Kettle Hill.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
And it sounds like a cartoon, you know, it does.
Speaker 3 (39:24):
It really does. Yeah, But you know this is an
important catalyst to him becoming president. In many ways, t
R has made himself too many enemies in his party.
The man again, he's he's not playing by the rules enough, right,
So they want to get him out of the way,
and they have to worry about getting out because the
(39:44):
people like him so much. The dude's a war hero.
The man's built such a reputation the Medal of Honor. Right,
So when you have a Medal of Honor recipient who
is known for, you know, being a badass out in
the bad lands and cleaning up the streets and and
kicking out corruption in New York and now he's a
war hero. Yeah, this guy is really starting to look
(40:06):
like a presidential contender. But the Republican Party is terrified
of him because he doesn't toe the party lineup. So
what do you do when you got someone like that
who's popular, but you want to get him out of
the way.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
Vice president nice well nice.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
From the party's point of view, how does this sit
with tr Well?
Speaker 3 (40:27):
Yeah, tr is not necessarily a big fan of this position.
The party itself actually has plenty of consternation within it.
He actually was interested in being governor of New York.
Speaker 1 (40:39):
That was his draw.
Speaker 3 (40:41):
He's being pushed and pressured towards jumping on ticket. Obviously
he ultimately goes for it. But you have other party
bosses outside of New York who going what are you doing?
You just put this damn cowboy to quote them, You
just put that damn cowboy a heartbeat away from the
White House, which you know, of course, to think of
(41:03):
Will's our boy, right, Will's healthy, He's good, that's not
a problem. But assassins can make healthy presidents unhealthy. Yeah,
And of course he's assassinated September nineteen oh one, Meet
and great and out outcomes a gun.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
He struggles for.
Speaker 3 (41:26):
His life for a bit, but very quickly early on
in this second term, and that turns out to really
be TR's first term, and of course he runs with it.
This is not just an accidental president who is gonna
be a placeholder.
Speaker 1 (41:45):
Yeah, he's been planning for this, and the assassination happens
very early after the inauguration, so he's got the full.
Speaker 3 (41:53):
Term here pretty much to operate with. Yeah, and you know,
here here he goes making some serious waves as he
pushes for his vision of what will give the American
people a square deal?
Speaker 1 (42:11):
And so what does that look like as president? Because
that's kind of kind of how we all think of
him as as being the president. And so he he
did a lot of things that I think are really
pretty amazing. Yes, so.
Speaker 3 (42:27):
There are a few things that that he does. I
mean that the three c's are probably the best way
to sum him up quickly. Consumer protection, corporate regulation, conservationism.
That's how historia now in Panama. Yeah, so to you know,
in broad strokes, good grief, it's more like, what doesn't
he do?
Speaker 2 (42:48):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (42:48):
He basically we had our first national park out there
that that process head had begun. But he expands national
parks in an absolutely unprecedented way.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
He preserved forests.
Speaker 3 (43:01):
He's very concerned with nature, something that would probably surprise
some people to know in our modern way of thinking
the things. He's a massive conservation is because he is
a hardcore hunter and he has to pay attention to
the ecosystem exactly. So he understands that he has to
respect and care about nature if that is going to continue.
(43:24):
So he's that's where his deep love and protection of well,
his conservationism protection of nature, that's where it originates. You know.
Keep in mind that we're coming out of this era
where the buffalo has nearly been annihilated and tr He
feels the nation standing on this precipice of destroying its
natural beauty and several various species, and goes, we have
(43:47):
to take steps to ensure that these things will survive
in perpetuity.
Speaker 1 (43:52):
Yeah, why don't bulldoze this forest and put a factory
in there? Exactly?
Speaker 3 (43:56):
And yet he's no enemy of you know, quote unquote
progress either that. Uh, these are the sorts of you know, nuances.
I really respect and appreciate about him. He he understands
the need for big business. He In fact, one of
the things he complains about when Howard Taft comes in
as president after him is he says, Taft's just breaking
(44:19):
up big corporations because they're big. That's not why you
break up a corporation. You're big, you break up a
corporation because they are abusing their power and their size.
And you know that to me just again shows it's
a thoughtful approach. Anyhow, I've jumped all over the place.
(44:40):
But that does get to his trust busting. H Taft
will actually bust more trust than him, but tr is
far more famous for it. He starts this process, uh
and trusts by the way, that that's just the term
for like massive, massive freaking companies.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
Yeah, huge monopolies that are basically abusing their workers and
making prices, you know, abusing consumers and employees.
Speaker 3 (45:04):
Well, and the thing to that's crucial, I think to
understanding why tr is the one who starts this down
this road. First of all, it should have been done sooner.
But we're coming out of the Gilded Age and companies
on the backs of railroads, a far more interconnected nation technique.
The shifts of the Industrial Revolution has allowed the creation
(45:28):
of products and the movement of products on such a
far larger scale and level that this is the first
time we have several of these super trans state I'll say,
you know, corporations. Previously, if you go back to say
the revolutionary era, John Hancock, richest guy in Boston. Okay,
but him being the richest guy in Boston pales compared
(45:50):
to Rockefeller or JP Morgan and so forth being the
richest Americans.
Speaker 1 (45:56):
Right. It's like the billionaires today too, right where it's
just like you can not imagine the scope of how
much money they have, right, And it's.
Speaker 3 (46:03):
Right, yeah, So that's that's what he What he's tackling
is a new problem. This isn't something that presidents before
the Second Industrial Revolution even had to grapple with. We
never had companies of these sizes before, and he has
no problem grappling with it, which is a real struggle
(46:25):
for you know, suddenly Republicans usually consistently falling with in
line with big business, and now you've got big business
and they don't know what to do with this guy
because he's also kind of one of them. He's a
blue blood in New Yorker, and he's sort of with
them at times because he doesn't always go along with
everything that you know, the striking parties want. He really
(46:48):
wants to just sit the table and have a square deal.
So it just perplexes. It's really funny to see, like
the donations that come in from say Rockefeller and JP
Morgan when he runs for president his second term.
Speaker 1 (47:03):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (47:04):
One of them said, you know, we bought the son
of a bitch and he didn't stay bought. Yeah, they
tonate thinking they're going to get curry favor. Tr doesn't
do that. TR is not about about favors. He is
going to stick to his sense of morality.
Speaker 1 (47:21):
Yeah, which is great, which is another thing that we
need more of in politics and in business, that in
all manner of all aspects of our lives. So that's
the first two c's right, we hit conservation and we
hate corporate regulation. What was the third one?
Speaker 3 (47:37):
Consumer protection? I think you know your go to example
there is the FDA. There are other examples, but he
he's the one who creates the Federal Drug Administration.
Speaker 1 (47:49):
And you know it's really with all those snake oil salesmen. Yes, yes,
out west.
Speaker 3 (47:55):
Well, but the really funny thing is the impetus for
that is reading The Jungle. Now The Uncle is a
book by Upton Sinclair. You're familiar, and Upton Sinclair is
actually a devote socialist trying to push socialism. The story
is meant to talk about the struggle of the workers,
and of course in the end they unite, right and
socialism Happily or After is his take, right, because he's
(48:19):
a devout believing socialist, so it's the answer. Well, a
lot of Americans do start reading the book because it
is compelling read, but they're not getting the Marxist message
that he wants. They're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, there's
what in my meat?
Speaker 1 (48:33):
Yeah? Whoa.
Speaker 2 (48:34):
So, to be fair, it is a useful message to
be getting.
Speaker 3 (48:38):
It is. But Upton opined that I meant to hit
them in their hearts and I hit them in the stomach,
which I just think is hilarious. So you know, Teddy
reads this and he's like, okay, this is this is
a problem. Now he's not going to trust the socialist
because again, this guy he's not he's just not extreme
in any direction, right, But he's also not going to
discount the socialist. So he sends his own investigator to
(49:00):
go look at meat packing plants and say, okay, I
don't know if I can buy we often selling huh
no pun intended as wire about social author, but that's okay,
but I want you to go look into this. Right
is this true? And of course yes it is that
Upton's research in his process for writing what was a
work of fiction, but nonetheless it was a very realistic
depiction of the horrendous process by which meat was being
(49:23):
prepared and like sawdust is being used to like basically you.
Speaker 1 (49:28):
Get ground is not gluten free, Yeah, no, super not
gluten free, not at least, Yeah, very unsanitary practices.
Speaker 3 (49:36):
So the FDA is born in an effort to protect Americans.
Speaker 1 (49:40):
Okay, Okay, well I'm just gonna have to stop here
because we have to go do ads real quick. Okay,
welcome back, let's continue. You know, the big work that
he completes, you know, so he does the FDA, the
(50:01):
all of the National Park's huge, huge amounts of National park,
you know, and the big ones right Yosemite, Yellowstone, and
then he completes the He builds the Panama Canal to
help with with trade and shipping and basically all manner
of makes everybody's life easier to have the Panama Canalesians.
Speaker 3 (50:22):
Remember, well, actually the Panamanians like it. It's it's Columbia
that doesn't like it. Okay, so he's good with a
coup that didn't necessarily need to happen. But yeah, that
that's a very man I'd need like an hour for
that well, and that's what I took in my own episode.
But the Panama Canal has been a dream for people
(50:42):
around the world for I mean centuries in some ways.
And there are certainly a million problems with how it's
brought to fruition, but tr is the one that pushes
this thing through after the French absolutely fail to do it.
Now it's not actually completed until Jow Wilson's presidency, but
the Panama Canal does not happen without Theodore Roosevelt. And
(51:06):
one of the most badass photos of TR is him
and his white Panamanian you know hat in his linen suit.
How that thing is pristine? I have no idea, you know,
sitting at the controls of one of their big I
think it was an excavator of sorts on his visit
to the Panama Canal during its construction.
Speaker 1 (51:26):
That's awesome. And one one thing I love about Roosevelt
at this point is that he helps negotiate the end
to the Russo Japanese War. So Russia, Russia and Japan
are having territorial dispute in the Manchuria area, they're having
a war. It's pretty bloody and Roosevelt comes in and
(51:47):
he helps negotiate the peace, which is cool. But the
thing that I really like out of that story is
that he receives the Nobel Peace Prize for brokering the deal.
And he does. It makes me think, like, how many
people in history have received the Nobel Peace Prize and
also they're country's like highest medal of like military. It's
(52:11):
like him and maybe like Mustafa Kamal Aditur. I don't know,
but I can't think there's I can't imagine there's many
people who have like that version of the egot like to.
Speaker 3 (52:23):
Well and in so many any ways that does you know,
it sums up the you know this the speak softly,
carry a big stick tru.
Speaker 1 (52:35):
Which is a quote that is attributed to him generally.
Speaker 3 (52:37):
Yes, yeah, it sums up his foreign policy. Uh, this
is a guy who is not afraid to throw a punch,
but he doesn't. He also doesn't seek to And I
really do think not to overly play child psychologists, but
it goes back to you know, this kid who didn't
like bullies, and you can see elements of that as
imperfectly as it may have been executed at various points.
(53:00):
You see that thread follow him throughout his entire life.
This is a man who stands up to bullies. It
doesn't matter if that bully is a big corporation. It
doesn't matter if that bully is perhaps in some way
the union that's engaging with that corporation. It doesn't matter,
you know, is it a legislator, is it a foreign country?
(53:22):
And not to say he always calls it right, but
he when he sees a bully, he stands up. Yeah,
and so, but not everybody loved Teddy Roosevelt because somebody
took a shot at him. Absolutely, And look, you're if
everybody loves you, you're probably not actually standing up for anything.
(53:44):
That it's impossible to be liked by everybody. And I
realize that that tr isn't everybody's cup of tea. And
they're playing good reasons, you know, or plenty valid reasons
for that. He after he leaves the White House, Howard
Taft succeeds him, He thinks Tafft is going to be,
you know, basically him two point zero in his estimation.
(54:04):
Taft does not. Taff feels like he's carrying on their
legacy just fine. But tr comes back and says, fine,
I'm gonna run for president again, splits the Republican Party.
We end up with his own party, the Bull Moose Party,
which effectively just splits the Republican ticket, ensures that Democrat
Woodrow Wilson ultimately wins. But during this campaign and a
(54:25):
would be assassin does approach him as he's getting into
a car and shoots him. The bullet hits his speech.
It's a fifty page speech folded up, so those one
hundred pages, it's close to that. That slows it down,
and then it hits his spectacles. He has a he
had his in his pocket. The case. It's a strong
(54:48):
metal case. It deflects the bullet a bit too, so
it does go in, but it doesn't get into his lungs.
So he notices after he gets shot he's breathing again.
This is a colonel, right. The man has seen a
lot of death and injuries on the battlefield. They want
to rush into the hospital. He's got speaking of it.
He's sitting there going no blood, no blood when I
(55:11):
breathe take me to my speech. I can use du up,
wraps it up.
Speaker 2 (55:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (55:17):
It does his best to keep the blood, but of
course it seeps through. He's up there. He just goes on,
he does his thing. The dude speaks. He's got a
bullet wound in him. He's bleeding out at the podium
as he shares his message series exactly if there is,
if there is an act of presidency that's more badass
(55:37):
than that, I it's not coming to mind for me
right right at this moment.
Speaker 1 (55:41):
I don't. Yeah, it would be extremely difficult to top that.
The war hero, Nobel Priest Prize winner giving a speech
with a bullet in his chest, and I think he
opens the speech with that like, hey, you know, I'm like, yes,
maybe that short because I got shot in the chest
like five minutes ago, and streak crab.
Speaker 3 (55:58):
You know, yeah, what's up in my chest? Let's talk.
Speaker 1 (56:04):
I'll fight for you guys. Yeah. So he doesn't win
that election and he kind of retires, and in his
retirement he does very Teddy Roosevelt things, or excuse me,
he does very Theodore Roosevelt things. He goes to Africa
and he hunts leopards and rhinos and elephants. He goes
(56:24):
to Brazil and explores the Amazon River and gets a
tributary of the Amazon named after him. He's actually very famous.
My wife is from Brazil and I spend a lot
of time down there, and they love him down there because, yeah, because.
Speaker 3 (56:40):
He and he nearly dies in the process.
Speaker 1 (56:42):
Yeah, he almost dies in the process. The guy that
took him through on that trip, Candido Rondon, has like
a state named after him in Brazil. He's this huge
hero down there. He was the guide on that trip
and he's like a really really interesting guy. I want
to do an episode about him at some point in
the future. Yeah, we will do that. But Greg, we've
(57:03):
kept you for long enough that we've covered most of
the broad strokes of Theodore Roosevelt. You dig into it
a lot deeper on your podcast history that doesn't suck.
So if you guys enjoyed this episode, I encourage you
to go and listen to that. Greg, thank you so much.
We really appreciate you taking out your time to come
(57:24):
talk to us here. And is there where where can
people find you? Are you working on? Are you on
social media at all?
Speaker 3 (57:32):
I am AHGDS pod on Twitter and it just history
that doesn't suck on Insta, Facebook, and of course just
wherever you get your podcast history that doesn't suck htdspodcast
dot com is my website so you can I have
a national tour going on right now. If you'd be
interested in seeing me live, you can get the details
(57:53):
there and you know everything else that I'm up to.
Speaker 1 (57:56):
Awesome. Well, thank you so much for being on the show.
We really appreciate having you. Hey, my pleasure and thank
you guys for listening, and we'll see you on the
next one.
Speaker 2 (58:04):
Yeah, stay badass and carry a big stick. Badass of
the Week is an iHeartRadio podcast produced by High five Content.
Executive producers are Andrew Jacobs, Me, Pat Larish, and my
co host Ben Thompson. Writing is by me and Ben.
Story editing is by Ian Jacobs Brandon Phibbs. Mixing and
(58:25):
music and sound design is by Jude Brewer. Special thanks
to Noel Brown at iHeart. Badass of the Week is
based on the website Badass of Theweek dot com, where
you can read all sorts of stories about other badasses.
If you want to reach out with questions ideas, you
can email us at Badass Podcast at badassoftheweek dot com.
(58:49):
If you like the podcast, subscribe, follow, listen, and tell
your friends and your enemies. If you want as We'll
be back next week with another one. For more podcasts
from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you get your podcasts.
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