Whitetail Warfare with Rusty Johnson

Rusty Johnson from Whitetail Warfare stopped by the global headquarters to talk to Clay Newcomb and Kolby Morehead about all things whitetail. They have a candid discussion about whitetails over scent control, the wind, approaching a new area, shed hunting, etc.  Rusty is an extreme whitetail hunter with a lot of experience and shared a lot of wisdom with the Bear Hunting Magazine crew.  This is one for the books!

 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
You're listening to the Sportsman's Nation podcast network, brought to
you by Interstate Batteries. Interstate Batteries has been a proud
supporter of the Sportsman's Nation since day one. So if
you're looking for any type of batteries, whether it's for
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(00:23):
thousands upon thousands of them all over the United States.
Talk with a battery specialist and get the batteries that
you need to go on with your life. Interstate Batteries
outrageously dependable. My name is Clay Nukeleman. I'm the host

(00:43):
of the Bear Hunting Magazine podcast. I'll also be your
host into the world of hunting the icon of the
North American wilderness. Prepare. We'll talk about tactics, gear conservation.
We will also bring you into some of the wildest
country on the planet. Chasing their Rusty Johnson. Rusty Johnson

(01:15):
is a longtime friend of mine and I've always had
a ton of respect for him as a white tail hunter.
I don't there's there's not another person that puts in
more energy, that has more passion and love for bow
hunting whitetail deer than Rusty Johnson. So we have a
really good discussion, a timely discussion because it is go

(01:35):
time for white tails, and we have a timely discussion
about all things dear hunting, his philosophies, my questions and philosophies,
and uh, just a fast paced conversation that you're gonna enjoy. Hey,
I've been carrying for the last week in the Arkansas
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(01:56):
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(02:17):
which I did one time because I forgot if the
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and looked in the back of it, saw the saw
my Paradex pellets. It was like it's loaded if I
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(02:39):
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(03:03):
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(03:25):
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(03:46):
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(04:10):
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attract bears. Check him out north Woods Bear Products dot net. Hey,
let's get to the conversation with old Rusty Johnson, the
white Tail Ninja. Rusty. They have an Instagram group called
white Tail Warfare, so you can check them out on Instagram. Man, Rusty,

(04:38):
this is uh, this has probably been a long time
coming having you on the podcast because you you have
been an influential figure in my white tail world for sure. Uh.
We were just Kobe. We were just looking at that
buck right there. That's the way I met Rusty Johnson
two thousand seven. You how long have you scored for

(05:01):
Poping Young? So a score. Yeah. I started for Poping
Young in two thousand four. I also score for buck Masters,
and I started with them in not teen ninety five.
It was the very first year that they started the
record keeping. Uh yeah, and I started with him. I
was in the very first class with the Masters in

(05:21):
I'll be done. It was in the very first class.
My score numbers number nine. Yeah, and uh I've done
a lot for them and uh enjoyed every bit of it. Yeah.
Well so this is the way this. Let me tell
you how Rusty so he scored that deer for me
back in oh seven, and that was the first big
deer ever killed, Rusty. I mean I'd killed it. I

(05:42):
guess I'd killed the uh, you know, a hundred twenty
five inch deer before, which for us is a big
deal for Arkansas bowdive inch deer Northfolk, Arkansas. I'd spend
my whole season every year trying to kill a deer
like that, just to set the record straight. But that
deer was a hundred and sixty inch plus, dear. I
remember I brought it to you and your dad up

(06:02):
at uh what was the name of that sporting good
story sportsman's warehouse. We used to call it the Temple. Yeah,
we called it. We called it the Temple. Let's go
to the Temple. That was back before the internet when
we ordered everything online. But going to a sporting goods
store was like a big deal. And you have me
meet you up there. But anyway, we've been good buddies
ever since that. We've never really hunted together, but we've

(06:25):
Every year we stay in touch about what's going on
in and we sport some we score some contests together.
Yeah you're you know, your official score now and everything.
And yeah, we started doing that and I enjoy that
every year when yeah, that's kind of annual rendezvous. Uh,
when I meet up with you and your son. Rustin,
who's a friend of mine too, is a good deer hunter. Um.

(06:46):
But now, hey, Kolbe, this guy is a very good
deer hunter, like top level deer hunter. Really, he puts in,
he puts in as much effort as anybody into inside
the hunting seas and I do put a lot of
time in. Yeah, and that's I mean, that's what I
want to talk to you about. So, like, the cool
thing about this conversation is it's gonna air tomorrow, which

(07:10):
what's today? They of October sounds right, Um, So it's
gonna come out on maybe the twenty ninth of October,
which is like, I mean, this is the time that
we wait for all year long. Yeah, you're lucky that
I'm here exactly. Yeah. Yeah, this was just to give
a little context. This was totally spur of the moment.

(07:31):
I knew something that Rusty was doing. I knew it
was raining, and I was like, hey, would you come
over here and let's talk about white tails. Yeah. I've
been hunting daylight to dark pretty much every day, rain
or not. And uh, I was gonna take just a
little bit of a break and it was perfect time.
And yeah, well right on that. Uh man, what okay,

(07:53):
let me ask you a question. Do you I was
thinking yesterday because I've got a dear story. I want
to tell you, Okay, that happened on October yesterday. Do
you do you remember dates really well when it comes
to deer hunting? Uh? Not really, not specific dates. Okay,
Like with deer, Like, could you like go through a

(08:14):
catalog and say I killed that deer on that day,
that deer on this day, saw that deer on that
that Yeah, I could probably like take you to my
trophy room and pointed each deer and say, hey, I
killed that when November the seven, that whatever. You know.
I could probably do that, But as far as like
seeing deer, I've either got to write it down or

(08:34):
log it in my phone or something, cause I don't
have that good memory. Well, I was gonna say, there's
about a fourteen day window during the year that I
remember dates really well, and that's from October about November
t fifteen days there. And I can recall like like
when close hunting buddies saw a buck, like my father

(08:56):
in law followed him real close in white to Huney. Well,
I remember a deer that he killed on October. I
remember like sightings and like anyway, well, I don't think
I do. I just I think it's it's really interesting
to me how like you can key in under this
one little little little section of the calendar and be

(09:19):
so focused on it. Here's what I Here's something I
did yesterday resting was like, we're looking at some of
the deer that I've killed just here in the office.
Like those deer easy to remember. What I want to
remember and learn from is the big buck encounters that
I had that I didn't kill the buck, like yesterday

(09:39):
and last night. Because I came home from this encounter
yesterday and I just thought, man, that was awesome. It
was heartbreaking. And I know you've had some heartbreaks over
the years. It was heartbreaking that I didn't kill this
deer and I'll tell the story, but jeez, this buck
read the script. Everything was perfect. It was a beautiful day.

(10:02):
I mean like it just Almo's just kind of like
waters slipped through my hands and I I got I
wrote down seven let me see one, two, three, four,
or five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven dates of
deer that have happened just like that over the years,
some of them not to the day, some of them

(10:23):
just to the year in the general time frame. But
I started thinking about the big buck encounters that got
away from me. You've followed me, because you can learn
just as much from those as you can the ones
that are on your wall, Because like, I didn't kill
that deer yesterday, but he he was there ready to
be killed, but not. When's your favorite time to What's
what's your favorite three days to hunt? Favorite three days? Yeah,

(10:47):
I'd say, um, October thirty one, Novermber one Novermber second,
that's my favorite, really, and that would be specifically for
northwest Arkansas places. I would say Arkansas. In Kansas, of course,
I hunt Kansas law. I didn't draw this year, but
I hunt Kansas almost every year, and those three days

(11:08):
right there are my favorite. The money days. Huh. I
mean that's that's just my favorite days. I mean I've
had the most encounters. I probably killed the most dear
during those three days. Um. I probably couldn't nail down
and tell you exactly why, but probably because it's right
before they start really running around, you know, running five

(11:30):
miles this direction, five miles that direction, because you know
the days following that they really get wild. I mean
they go to running around and stuff and they're not
really there, you know, And to me, those three days
are my favorite. So you think you can kill there
that you kind of know about almost are just they're
a little bit more predictable. Like is that what you're saying?

(11:53):
I think so, yeah, yeah, but that's my favorite three.
I would I would have to totally agree with those dates.
I mean, like, especially if you're here, have you have
you heard people talk about the peak conception dates for
northwest Arkansas? I've heard a little bit about do you
remember any of that? Because I know, okay, I just
before I said this, I wanted to see if you

(12:14):
had updated in Intel because there was a study that
was done I don't know, ten twelve years ago maybe
longer where they did a fetus study like road kill
deer like pulling fetuses out, and they could track back
conception and the peak conception dates in northwest Arkansas were like, uh,

(12:36):
I want to say November the fifth through like November eight,
which is sort of early, but it lines up real
well with what you just said and what I would
would see as well in terms of you know, from
about right now through about November the sixth or seventh,
it's really good. Yeah. Now if you opened it up,

(12:58):
not just pin it down to three three days, you know,
it would be just what you said. Well, we go
like October twenty five through you know, November the six seventh,
somewhere long and there. I mean there's a pretty good
gap right there that I would like to be in
a tree, you know, all day and you know I
like to hunt all day long. I just don't like

(13:19):
to get down. But that's that's what I would know
you of as probably more than anything, Like there's characteristics
of guys hunting. You love sitting all day? Tell me
tell me your well, um, I don't, I don't know.
I mean the strategy, My strategy goes really deep. You know.

(13:42):
I like to shed hunt and that right there is
the key to my strategy. When I'm shed hunting, I'm
picking up antlers, but I'm also looking at potential hunting spots,
even kneeling down a tree, because I mean, there's no
more proof than getting a shed in your hand that
there's a big buck in that area. So I mean,
he could be in a mile radius, he could be

(14:02):
in a five mile radius. But when you picked that
shut up, you know he was there. So I started
looking from that point. He was standing right there. So
I started looking from that point, and I start looking at,
you know, the lay of the land, and you know,
you know, looking for their travel routes. And so if
you can tell a whole lot, you know, like in
February March, you can tell a lot about what they're doing.

(14:25):
And that is where my strategy starts right there. So
what do you tell me about what you're looking for
inside of your honey? If you could still it down
and even describe the train a little bit rusty, just
because I mean people are listen to this, you know,
if they're I don't know, there's no people could be

(14:46):
from anywhere listening to this, but like, what's northwest Arkansas?
Like what are you looking at so. I mean, you know,
these those aren't killed. Country bucks are really tough to hunt.
I mean, I mean, if you're out there hunting, you're
not gonna see twenty thirty deer. A see, you may
not even see a deer on an all day hunt.
They are really tough. But you know, everybody talks about

(15:08):
the traditional you know, pinch points, saddles, all that kind
of stuff, and you know they're good, but that's not
what I'm looking for. I mean, these bucks like to
travel on the side of ridges. Uh. There may be
a lot of ridges that come together and they travel
through that where there they may not be on the top.
There may be scrapes on the top. You know, a

(15:29):
lot of people like hunting scrapes, and I do hunt
scrapes too, But I look off the beaten path. I mean,
if you see like a really beat out trail coming
around the edge of a ridge, you need to look
either above it or below it. There'll be a real
dim trail and that's where your buck is, and that
may be fifty yards from the main trail. So you
gotta look at things like that. I mean, it's not

(15:51):
as simple as just going out there and finding a
pinch point finding a saddle, although they're good, but I
look for different things like trails on the side of
the hill and uh a lot of times that's tough
to bowl hunt. You have to, you know, put a
game plan together to see how you're gonna you know,
intercept that dear, because it's tough to hunt on side

(16:12):
of a hill or like in the bottom and a
ditch or something. But I try to hunt different things
like that, and it's it's worked for me. What about
doing like the the chase phase there up when these
deer moving around so much, would you not hunt these
real generic travel areas then? Uh? Yeah, I mean when

(16:32):
they're chasing doughs and stuff, you know, the does are
gonna be where food is. And when they're really chasing,
I mean, I focus on food. I mean that's just
that's just what I do. But I mean, I mean
they're gonna go They're gonna run through pinch points and
stuff like that and saddles. I mean, is still down
what you're saying, because like like like right now, I

(16:57):
feel like I need to be hunting it just the
dough you know, just like hunting where the does are
and the does are going into these kind of normal areas.
So like, right now, are you hunting down like hunting
kind of more obscure. Well, I'm right now, I'm hunting
really close to a betting area, and I know the

(17:18):
dos are beding there, and you know the place where
they're feeding the most, it's probably about two yards from there.
But I'm hunting really really close to the betting area,
almost inside a little bit of the betting area. So,
I mean, they got They're not gonna stand up all
day long. I mean, they gotta bed at some point,

(17:38):
and a lot of times they'll they'll just bed down
where they're eating. But I try to. I I really
push the limits. I mean I don't really hunt traditionally.
I mean it's it's hard to explain. Really, I mean,
I just kidding. But now I'm not holding out. I'm
just saying that, you know, I pushed the extremes. You know.

(17:59):
I I times I hunt right in the middle of
the betting area. And a lot of people say you're
stupid for, you know, for just going in there and
blowing deer out, But you know, and I may be stupid,
I don't know. But let's describe what you like this
beding area that you're in. What does it look like?
It's just a really high stem count. I mean, you know,
you've got really open woods. Uh, and it's it's terrain

(18:22):
driven to I use on X a lot. It's got
topo on it. And you know they'll bed down on
the side of ridges. It may not even be a
high stem count, but they really like high steem count
because it makes them feel safer. Yeah, but a lot
of times, uh, you know. And another thing is catching

(18:44):
these big bucks in in the daylight and when they're chasing.
I mean, they're gonna be chasing all day long, but
why right before that those dates that I give you,
you know they're not you know, cashman. Daylight's tough, I
mean really tough. And you gotta get close to where
they're bedding down to be able to catch them in
that window right before they go back to bed in

(19:07):
this big timber of the country like we're hunting, though.
I mean, it's hard. It's hard for me to just
pin down right where they're beding though, Rusty, you know
what I'm saying, Like just because it's like there's like
you take this terrain like right here by my house,
like there's real thick stuff just like right there, and
then there's some open woods, but there's also real thick

(19:29):
stuff like five yards from here. So it's like it's
hard for me to know like exactly where they're bedding
lock in open woods where you've got thousands of acres
and there's no like per se betting area. I used
to own some property and it was just in Missouri,
and it was just big timber, and when we bought it,
the very first thing we did was cut. We've done

(19:50):
some selective cut, but we also drew on the mout
areas where we wanted to create our betting area and
we just basically clear cutted it and made a bedding area.
But in this hill country and these those arcs, you
can't do that. So I mean you just have to
look for like specific terrain types. I mean like when
I'm shed hunting, I find all kinds of bed and

(20:10):
you would not believe the places where I find where
they're bed And I mean some really steep ground, there
may be a log they like laying by logs, uh,
you know, blowovers, you know stuff like that. I mean
I find all kinds of stuff like that, and and
it gives me good ideas where to get when when
deer season gets here. Any consistency, and I mean, I

(20:32):
guess shed hunting though you're finding that these are these
deer's late winter. It is bad, so maybe they could
change a little bit. Do you do you find consistency?
I do, because I mean, you know, basically the food
that they're eating now and they're eating late winter two. Okay,
I mean that's just what I found. It's pretty similar.
It's per Then is there a consistent uh slope that

(20:56):
they like would you say, out of ten times, would
a buck bed on the south side five of those times?
I mean, is there any consistency that you've seen? Well,
I've heard people say south slope, north slope, all that,
But in my my experience, I find sheds on on

(21:17):
all of the random random couldn't kind of micro terrain feature,
vegetation feature driven like so it's like it may be
on the north side, but it's because there's cover and
the winds. Yeah, it may have been what the wind
was that day, or you know what the weather conditions
were that day. I mean they may bed on the

(21:38):
north slope or the south slope could be weather driven
to I don't know how to explain it, but I
just say, you know, there's fifty fifty and I found
a lot of sheds. I mean, that's one of my
passions is shed hunting. That's that's probably second behind bow hunting.
Is think about this like off and think about these

(22:00):
places that I hunt. And if you had to, if
I told you, Rusty, go out there and sit down
in a place while I where I will never find you.
Like uh, because like where I hunt, and I'm learning.

(22:23):
The older I get in, the more mature of a
hunter become that I'm usually my own worst enemy, like
in terms of actually executing strategy, Like on this farm
I hunt over here, Um this hunt one bigger farm.
It's about six acres. Man, I would do the same
thing every year. Now it's produced some success, but I

(22:46):
mean what I want more success, Yes, But like I
pretty much like if you were to map over the
last I've hunted his property for almost twenty years, if
you were to map my movements on that property, there
would be big holes where I don't go, not intentions,
not like trying to preserve the place. But like I
do the same thing every year, Like I hunt this

(23:08):
stand to hunt this, then I scout here, I scout here,
I scout here, and like if you kind of stepped
back and looked, you would see these big holes. And
I think probably that's dear no that. I mean like
they they they respond to human pressure and go to
places where humans aren't and it seems like kind of rational. Well,

(23:28):
if you're a good deer hunter, you go into the
places where the other hunters won't go. I mean, we
hear that on Facebook at all time. It's way harder
than that, because it's not just walking further. It's more
nuanced than that. Like there, I'm quite certain that deer
use that terrain over there on that six nard acre property,

(23:49):
Like I understand about twenty of their movement there, and
that's probably made me an above average deer hunter. My
point is I really the deer using that property in
in in ways, and I don't feel like I'm capitalizing
on it as as I could. Does that make sense? Well,
I mean, have you went in there in the off

(24:11):
season and walked around and just looked. I spent a
lot of time on that place in the winter, I mean,
just because inch of it. Maybe probably not. Well, that's
that's one thing that I strive to do, like the
areas that I'm hunting, whether it's private, public, whatever. In
the All season, I go when I learned every square

(24:32):
inch of that property, and then after going in there putting.
It's a different than looking at a map than putting
boots on the ground. In all Season, I put boots
on the ground and I look at every square inch.
Then I go back and I look at my mop
and I'm I'm thinking, I'm putting everything together. It's like
pieces of a puzzle and you look at it and
you think, you know that deer is traveling this direction.

(24:56):
I've been hunting over here. I move around a lot,
just like yesterday. I was in the stand all day long.
I saw one really nice, really nice eight point, but
it's the spot I've never hunted. I had never hunted
this particular spot, and uh Rusting had some game cameras
in there. My son and he said, can you go

(25:19):
pull the cards out of that? And I said, well,
I guess after I get down from this. I was
hunting a different area and it was already dark. I
go in there. I check a lot of cameras at night,
I mean, because I hunt daylight, were dark if I'm
checking cameras during hunting season, it's at night, and a
lot of times in the summer, i'll go at night.
I won't get into all that right yet. But um so,

(25:42):
this spot yesterday is a spot I had never hunted before.
I like to move around a lot. We got a
lot of different places and we've got them all mapped out,
We've got them all pinned on on X and I've
got trees picked out already. I hunt a lot out
of a climber space flee on public. There's a lot
of mature timber, and you have good trees to climb

(26:03):
with the climber, and it's really mobile. You don't have
to put up a lock owner whatever you know. And
I do carry lock owns into and put them up
and then take them down when I use them. But
uh yeah, this spot, your study spot I've never even
hunted before. Wow. Yeah, yeah, Pretty saw Us had some
cameras in there. He had some good bucks on camera,
and uh so I said, I'm gonna go in there

(26:26):
and hunt. He's like, well, we've never even been in
there hunting before. And I'm like, well, there's deer and
there we got We've got videos to cameras. Two questions
I've got. I want to talk about moving stands. I
want to ask you a personal question. But but before that,
how are you getting pictures of bucks? Because I know

(26:46):
you're not using feed or any kind of scent attracting
or anything in these places you're hunting. How are you
getting pictures of bucks? Uh? A lot on scrapes. You know,
deer run scrapes a lot at night. Yeah, a lot
of that activity at night. And that's and if you'll
notice on our page, a lot of our videos are
at night of bucks running scrapes. And that's not necessarily

(27:09):
where we're gonna hunt. Where we're getting a good place
to get inventory. It's it's a good place to get inventory.
Is is primary scrapes and Uh, that's where we get
a lot especially well, actually, we get a lot of
our content as far as buck inventory on scrapes year round.
We have cameras on scrapes year round. It's not just

(27:31):
they work on year round. I don't care if it's July.
We've got bucks running scrap uh, working scrapes with velvet.
I mean they work on year round. Man, I left
a camera out last year, Um and it just so happened.
You know. I changed the batteries like late winter, and
I just was like, I just leave it up, and

(27:51):
it was over scraped, incredible pictures of all stages of
antler growth. Those dear work in it, like putting their
scent on that licking branch. I don't I don't necessarily know.
I saw him paw on the ground. Do you see them?
They're mainly working the licking bround and especially in the summertime.
They won't pull the ground you seldom, but I palled

(28:15):
the ground for him. I get that good, the soul
of a roma coming up and stuff, and uh, I
go ahead and brake it out and stuff. But you
won't ever see them. But they even in velvet, they'll
they'll put their antlers up in those licking branches and
stuff and work them good. I mean, we've got hundreds
and hundreds of videos. I said, just yes. A couple

(28:35):
of days ago, I made a post and I was
sitting over a scrape. It was October the twenty or fifth,
and uh, and I made mention it was like an
Instagram story and I may mention I was sitting over
a scrape. And after I said it, I wanted to
come back and qualify my scrape idea. And that's like,
and it's this, I'm not setting over that scrape hoping

(28:58):
to kill a buck working that scrape. Now he might
do that. I'm I was setting in that spot because
that was an area that that's a travel area, and
bucks make primary scrapes in travel areas. I mean, it's
a it's a scrape that's designed to communicate to the
whole dear herd. And so they're gonna put that scrape
not in some obscure place. They're gonna put it in

(29:20):
a in a place that there's a lot of travel,
a lot of movement, And so you're hunting there not
for the scrape, but for the reason that the scrape
is there. That's a travel area. And because there used
to be this idea that old bucks checking his scrapes
as if he's gonna go out of his normal routine
to go check a scrape, like like as if that

(29:41):
buck put a scrape in like a weird spot that
he usually wouldn't go to. No, you know, And I
think that's also I believe a lot of bucks check
scrapes and not even go up to the scrape Yeah,
you know, they'll they'll go down into that scrape. It
may be fifty yards and they'll they'll checked that scrape,

(30:01):
but they won't be on that scrape. So that that
comes into some you know, hunting strategy right there, and
that goes back to the like on the sides of
heels and stuff. I mean that I think a lot
of people are missing. I'll put a camera on a scrape,
and I also go down you know a lot of
times scrapes on top of a ridge or whatever. I'll

(30:22):
go down below that scrape and find some of those
real damn trails and put another trail camera out. But
since trail cameras have come up, that's a lot of
our strategy right there. We run trail cameras three hundred
and sixty five days a year, and we run a
lot of them, and I mean we spend a lot
of time, and that tells it tells a big story

(30:43):
right there. Yeah, you know, there's a place that I
hunt that is so it's it's super tough to hunt.
But I've got I've got a bunch of trail cameras
out over there, and I've almost decided that I'm just
happy getting good camera pictures of deer over there. And

(31:06):
I'm not even worried if I ever kill a deer there,
just because it's so much fun getting pictures of these deer.
But now and in that place, I leave cameras out
pretty much year round as well, and have been learning
a lot. Um. Okay, here's here's where I was wanting
to go back to you with. Is Okay, here's a
question that a guy would have. He hunts in a

(31:27):
place more let's just say morning and evening. Maybe he
doesn't sit the whole day, you know, he gets down
and he sees moderate deer activity or or maybe not
much deer activity. But he's got a lot of confidence
in the spot because of sign because of the data
he's gathered about this spot. It's the it's it's prime time.
It's like, right now, do you move to another spot?

(31:50):
But let me build, let me build the case Even
bigger is that James Lawrence, my old hunting buddy down
the wash Toalls, that's kind of a master mountain deer hunter.
He he's had this philosophy for years and uh and
he said he likes to hunt a spot three days
from daylight till dark. And he says, if you do that,
you'll kill a deer. And he realized that now that

(32:13):
there may be that's not always the best way. But
my other buddy, who is a very good deer hunter
down in the mountains down there too, I have a
ton of faith in. He wants to move. He's like Clay.
If you go into a spot and sit for a
morning hunt and don't see a deer, get the heck
out of there and go somewhere else, even if there's

(32:33):
hot sign. And I mean he he really likes to move,
and so you know, he capitalizes on this like first time.
And I'm not saying he wouldn't hunt a spot over
and over. I mean he he might, but like if
he gets skunked, he's moving, and so he's capitalizing on
this like first time. So he hits it because we

(32:54):
all know the first time in is often really good.
Where James would be like, find that sign and just
stick it out. He said, you may not see a
deer for two days, but on that third day you're
gonna kill that buck. What do you think? All right,
So there's a good question. There's people on both sides

(33:18):
of the fence on this deal. So one of the
best deer hunters that I know was my dad, and
he would go along with the three day philosophy, and
that's kind of what I would. That's where I would
lean towards. I like moving. Uh but I will if
the sign is good and I know for a fact
there's good bucks in that area, I'll stick it out. Yeah,

(33:41):
I will. I mean, that's that's just what I do.
I see, that's my philosophy to rusty is to try
to just stick it out and not be validated by
deer sightings. I mean, like, because man, when you you
gotta be able to sit through some tough sets to
kill one. But listen to this, I've been doing that

(34:02):
for a couple of weeks. I've hunted hard over here,
and there's been a couple of reasons. I hunted hard early,
which I usually don't quite as much. But I was
getting pictures of this a big deer, and I felt
like I could get him kind of in the pre
rut on a feeding pattern. I hunted him a lot. Well,
I I don't know where he's at now. He's not

(34:25):
anywhere around here that deer I was after. And uh
so just yesterday, maybe this is a good time to
tell my story. I just was like, I'm getting out
of here. I'm going to a totally new place. And
so I did that, drove over to another property I
have access to, hunt, went in there, hung my tree

(34:45):
saddle in a brand new spot. And that's the spot
I had a lot of history with. Don't have a
single camera up over there. I mean, I don't mess
with this far much just because of the I just
go over there and hunt and I and I scout,
and but I have twenty years of history, so I
kind of knew where I wanted to go. Climb the tree.
At three o'clock yesterday, the temperatures here yesterday, we're just incredible.

(35:07):
It was high. Temperature was like forty five degrees. It
was it rained most of the day. You were out
in the rain. I didn't get in the stand till
three o'clock yesterday. And uh, I'm and where I was
sitting is that. Okay. There's three features that funnel these
deer into this pinch. It's the back corner of a

(35:28):
pretty big field, okay, And we all know that deer
rather than you know if they're going from point A
to point B and there's a field in between them,
and they don't want to walk across the open field.
They'll hit the back corners of these fields, you know,
to a back corner. Usually there's a lot of deer
sign so there's a corner, but there's also a big
deep holla that comes up from the other side of

(35:51):
this field. That so there's a big deep draw that
heads up right there, deep enough that funnels deer. And
then there's a mouth that is on a third feature
that funnels these deer into about a probably an area
that's a hundred yards wide by eighty yards wide, So

(36:11):
it's not like a tiny little thirty yard wide pinch.
It's fairly good sized pinch. But I've got kind of
in the center of it, and I climbed up in
my tree saddle. I'm using it. I'm using a tethered
phantom saddle. Have you looked at those at all? I've not.
I've actually been thinking about getting the saddle. I started

(36:33):
pretty cool, But they're pretty cool there there. I've used
them a lot this year and last year too. I
like them because their mobility. Um So I just got
up a seventeen eighteen feet three o'clock was in the
tree hunting. At three thirty, I see a doe coming
down the hill just I mean coming like right right

(36:55):
to me, you know, within shooting range. And uh, the
way she was moved moving I could it didn't strike
me as odd. But what struck me as odd was
how of a direct line she was taken, and at
the time of day she was. You know, like your
first the first time you see a deer, you you

(37:16):
gather so much data. I thought it was unusual that
she was on her feet at three third in the
afternoon and that she was moving with that much intentionality
at three thirty in the afternoon, because she was headed
towards kind of these fields. Well, I see movement behind
her about forty yards, and I see a deer, Rusty,
that was big enough that immediately, without even seeing his horns,

(37:40):
I knew that it was a shooter buck. And for me,
a shooter buck is a pretty good one. I'm not
I'm not measuring inches. I'm probably a lot like you, Rusty.
We're not We're not necessarily saying we're after a hundred
and forty buck. We're after a mature ozark, four year
old type deer. I mean, is that what you're after
in I saw this deer, and I mean without even

(38:02):
seeing his horns, I said, that's him. I mean, I
grabbed the bowl and and then he comes into full view,
you know, it probably sixty yards and I can just
see a full rack, I mean, just a good rack.
And it I ended up watching him for a long time.
It's a nice probably point which is for around here

(38:25):
is I'd spend my whole season to kill that deer,
big body, big neck. And the wind was blowing out
of the north. And so if I'm sitting in a
tree just like this right here, the wind has hit
me in the side of the face, so it's blowing.
The winds blowing off to my right, okay, and so
I'm looking at all this in front of me. It's

(38:45):
not an ideal wind, but it's a pretty good wind. Well,
just the way that deer was coming, she came in
the worst possible way for my wind. And if the
buck had been right behind the dough, like if he
had been right on her, I think I would have

(39:06):
had a shot at the deer. But the dough was
about forty yards in front of the buck, so the
dough cuts my wind. She slams on the brakes and
she she doesn't freak out, She just she stops. And
what does the buck do? Obviously he stops, and so
he's forty yards behind her. The dough is at thirty

(39:28):
ISHU yards right here, and I mean, I'm locked and
loaded waiting for this, but I'm ranging, you know, because
this does coming. I'm ranging the dough because I know
that buck's gonna be right there. I mean, just the
epitome of a white tail situation. And um, but she
slams on the brakes and then I looked back to
him and he is actually forty five yards from me,

(39:50):
but I mean he's on red alert. And long story short,
she milled around and never spooked, but she just turned
and just kind of cat walked back out of there.
And uh, the buck jumped the fence and milled around,
and I probably watched them for a total of five minutes,
and finally they just went back the way they came.
She absolutely smelled me and I never had a shot

(40:12):
at the buck. I mean not even a chance of
a shot. I mean it was just too thick. Um.
But uh, I said all that to say that was
my new spot. You know, I jumped to somewhere new
and was just amazed at the the deer activity. Now,
I end up seeing seven deer throughout the evening, which
to me for that area was just average. I actually

(40:36):
anticipated seeing more dear than that there because there's a
lot of deer over there. Um. But anyway, because we
were talking about do you set in the same spot
over and over, because I thought about back here, just
setting back and just like, no matter what, I'm hunting
back there for thirty days straight because I know there's
a good one back there, but I don't know. That's

(40:56):
my story, So I was I benefited for the jump move.
That's why I like bowl hunting so much is nothing
is a given. It is a huge challenge and you know,
just small things. I mean, if you had a gun,
my dear's dead. I mean that's why I like bow
hunting so much, because everything has to go right. You

(41:17):
have to get them in close. And I like that challenge. Yeah,
will you both hunt through the rifle season. I will, Yeah,
I will strictly bowl hunt. Uh. It's not that I'm
against gun hunting. I mean I love gun hunting, but
I am a bowl hunter. I did draw a tag
special tag this year. For a two day muzzloader hunt

(41:38):
that I might do. But even with that tag, I
can still go in there with a bowl and I
probably will because yeah, because I mean, I'm just I
just like the challenge so much. You know, if I
kill that buck with a bowl me personally, it just
means more to me than if I kill it with
a gun. Um. We were raised in the same vein

(42:01):
rest of you know my history. But in the last
seven years I have hunted with a hunting with a
muzzloader and with a rifle more than ever had in
my life. And and I've enjoyed it. I've enjoyed the liberation.
Like my dad is just like your dad. Like my
dad didn't even own a dear rifle. He wouldn't let
us hunt with guns when we were growing up. And

(42:23):
I I love that, Uh, I I enjoy I enjoy
carrying a muzzloader or something. But I'm I'm gonna be
getting back to my bow hunting roots a little bit more.
Let's say, I might be giving away my age here,
but I think I started shooting a bow in nineteen

(42:43):
seventy seven. No, you didn't, not seventy seven. You're not
that old. M I wouldn't have guessed it. How old
are you? I'll be forty nine in November. Okay, So
you were like, Okay, I'm not mistaken. I believe because
I asked him a while back, when when did I

(43:05):
start first, you know, start shooting, and he told me
about around that age because he he's a huge, huge
bowl hunter, huge bowl hunter, and I just that's how
I was brought up, you know, So it stuck. Well,
I'm ten years behind you because I, Uh, I started

(43:27):
shooting the bow when I was in the third grade.
That's when Dad bought us compound bows. And uh, I
would have been in the third grade in like seven. Yeah, uh,
but I'm forty one. Yeah, I'm pretty old too. I
started rusting, I believe when he was five, just a
little stick bowl, you know, and then he just kind
of graduated up. I think the first animal he killed

(43:48):
with the bowl was a turkey. Yeah. I thought that
was pretty pretty good. I think he was ten maybe
shot a turkey with a bowl. I just draw uped
him off. I had a blind set up and come back,
I said, well, did you say anything? I went to
pick him up. He said, well, yeah, I killed the turkey.

(44:09):
I'm like what at that point, I don't think I'd
even killed a turkey with a bowl, But yeah, he
shot a turkey and he's shot deer ten years old
with a bowl. Yeah. He's bigger than your average kid though,
I mean he could pull back pretty good poundage. You know,
he's bigger than your average kid right now. Yeah, he's
six three, about three fifty. But anyway, man, that's awesome, Kobe.

(44:36):
Do you have any questions, I mean, like specific hunting
questions for him or anything, Um, you think about it.
If you don't, then don't you think about it. I
mean I did have one thought, like, what if you
go into an area, like I'll just go and hunt
with my dad some somewhere at some point. So if
you don't have time to scout or anything, if you're
just going in and just gonna hang something or sit somewhere,

(45:00):
a look for If I didn't have time to scout it,
I'd go strictly by the map. Okay, I'd go strictly
by the maybe looking for train features. Yeah, just train
features on the map. If I if I had zero,
if I'd never been in there, never had time to
scout it or anything, like you said, and I just
look on the map and say, hey, we're gonna hunt
right here. Yeah, that sword for me. Yeah. We Uh.

(45:22):
One time, my dad's got this habit of find calling
the local game warden, talking to him, getting some information,
and so there was this one spot we were hunting
for the first time. He was like, the game warden
just said, you know, it's public land, but there's only
like you have to walk a long way to get
to the other side of this this water feature. If
you're just hopping the water feature and jump over, you

(45:43):
probably do pretty good getting the boat. Yeah, He's just
like getting a boat and hop over, And so we
did that and it worked. On the map. I saw
the spot where, uh, the water feature kind of horseshoes
around and so it kind of pinches at the top,
and there's like a lot of white oaks in the
horseshoe area. And I just walked in there and saw

(46:03):
a buck and didn't get a shot at him. But
I end up getting a dough that afternoon and and
a hug. So if you, I mean, if you didn't
have any time whatsoever and it was a shotgun hunt
like that or whatever, you can just go by the mountain.
You probably do pretty good. And back to the game
warden deal, that's a really good idea. I do the
same thing. I know all the game wardens, and I

(46:24):
talked to all of them all the time. They see
a lot, they know a lot, and most of them
will share some information with you. I mean they're on
they're driving these roads, you know, all day long. If
they say a big buck across the road and they're like, hey,
i've seen a big buck a cross back there, that'll
give me a starting point. And usually because of the
nature of the their job and the time when they

(46:47):
have to work, usually a lot of them aren't big hunters.
Well I don't want to I'm not saying they're not
big hunters, but they're not hunting at normal times, so
they might be willing to give you some intel because
they're using it for themselves that weekend. You know, some
guys I know some good game hunter game wardens, but
I know my dad starts hunting a lot heavier when

(47:07):
you start seeing more gear hit on the road too.
At the little factors. Yeah, um, what about Colin Rusty,
what's uh like? What do you what's your what's your
give me your bullet point? I'm a huge fan of calling. Uh,
I use a grunt call. I use a little rattling bag.

(47:31):
I never get real aggressive unless I'm in Kansas. Around
here with a rattle bag, I'll just barely like just
like tickling them. You know, I never get real aggressive
in Arkansas. I just don't. In Kansas, I do. I mean,
I just smash that thing and they'll come running. But uh,
around here, I haven't found that. I know that I

(47:54):
know the answer. I mean, like I could tell you
the answer, but yeah, it doesn't add up. Why doesn't
work here? I really don't know the answered. This dear fight,
these dear breedes. We got the fighting on camera all
the time. We set all our cameras to video mode,
and I like a lot video mode a lot better.
But I mean, we've got buck fights on camera on

(48:15):
game camera and stuff all the time, just all out.
You know, it's not because what what the typical talking
point would be would be, well, the buck doe ratios
are so bad in Arkansas or wherever that you know,
the bucks just aren't fighting as much. They're not responding
to fighting sounds. Where if you had like a one

(48:36):
to one buck ratio and there's some of that, that's true,
but we have decent buck to Doe ratios and lots
of places like It's not like it's not like totally
off kilter here. Uh yeah, I mean, I just I
just haven't had much luck aggressive rattle bag. I mean
just a lot stuff. You know, it works better. I

(48:58):
don't rattle a whole whole lot in Arkansas. I just
I just haven't had to say us Kansas different story.
But here and I've got I've had every grunk call
you know that has been made just about and there's
one grunt call that I've got that works better than
all the rest. I'm not gonna say what it is.

(49:19):
I gotta tell us. I'm not gonna say I've got
my truck right now. I'll show it to you in
a minute. But but there there is I mean, I
don't know if it's just me or what, but there's
this one game grunt call that I mean, I I
will not use any other, but this time in the
market for a good grunk call, well this is a

(49:41):
good Actually I actually looked into uh a grunt call today.
It'd be interesting to see if it was the same
one you're talk It's not it's not a mainstream, but
this one is really obscure. It's this is different than
any other grunt call that you've ever I like, I
like the sound of that. Um okay, what about when doy?

(50:02):
When do you call dear when? Uh? Well, like yesterday
I called to that I saw a big hunting forty
eight point I mean that is I mean, it's a
it's a monster for an Ozart hill country buck. So uh,
I called to him with a grunt. And these bucks

(50:24):
are not dumb when they get that big, they are
not dumb. And I'm a lot of time real hesitant
about calling tom when they're in sight like that. But
he was headed away from me, and I thought, well,
you know, I what if I got to lose, I'm
gonna try to get him to turn and come back.
And when I he I got his attention. He took
a few steps towards me. And what is it? What

(50:46):
do you think he did? He craned his neck and
looked and looked and looked. He looked and looked and looked,
and then he just started circling down Winn And I knew.
I knew as soon as he started that direction, I
knew i'd messed up. I mean it has either just
let him walk out of sight or or try so
you feel tried in it. And so he got you know,

(51:07):
you didn't see him, but he got down windows. What
what he did? Here's what he did, Clay is when
I grunted at, I just done a lot grunt got
his attention. Then I've done a like a like that
like you. And he started walking to me and these
are open woods and he stops and he's looking, well,
he doesn't see that, dear, and he's not stupid, so

(51:30):
he starts circling down Win. I believe if I'd had
a decoy, I don't hunt with a decoy, hardly any
in Arkansas. In Kansas it's a whole different ball game.
I don't think a decoy would work. I think a
decoy would have worked. He was looking for that buck.
If I'd have had a buck decoy there, I believe
he would have come in the decoy too much. Even

(51:50):
in Arkansas, you think it would have worked, I think
it my I think there would have had a better chance.
But would you have not spooked every dough that came
within sight of that decoy before the buck got there?
Na there'll be some little spook ill spook bucks and everything,
but man, when a mature buck, when a mature buck
gets out there, they can't stand it. See, that's the

(52:12):
hard part I have with decoys. And it's at least Arkansas,
and I understand how they work in the Midwest, but
my experience it's limited. But I have said over a
decoy and it's spooked every single deer I've ever since.
It will mess with your as much as I've I've
I've spent a lot of time in Kansas, and when
I'm hunting here in Arkansas, like this year, I did
not draw Kansas tag, so I'm gonna hunt arks. If

(52:35):
I tag out in Arkansas, I'll go buy me in
Missouri license. It's over the counter. But it messes with
your mind a little bit because I've had so much
success in Kansas. And then when you're grunting at a
deer like a deer I saw yesterday, and you're thinking
in your mind, Man, if I just had a buck decoy,
would he come in or would he not? What he spooke?
Would he come in? I don't know. In Kansas, it's

(52:57):
a no brainer. I would have that decoy out there,
But in Arkansas, it's it's messing with your mind a
little bit, you know, because I've not had success in
Arkansas with a decoy. I've tried them, and I just don't.
I've just stop using them in Arkansas. Okay, let me
tell you. Let me tell you my thoughts on calling,
or at least a simplistic like section of thought on calling.

(53:19):
I pretty much grunt at every deer that I see
that is not coming within bow range. I mean like
like and again this is like one little like if
I'm if I'm sitting there, my instinct like, if I
see a deer that is skirting me that is not
gonna come within bow range, I'm gonna back, I'm gonna

(53:40):
hit him. And most of the time it's gonna And
what I find strange enough before the rut, most does
will come to a grunt call. Yeah, Like if you
grunt if you see a dough out there at sixty
yards that's not coming by you. And I may not
even be wanting to shoot a dough, but I'm wanting

(54:02):
to draw all these deer as close to me as possible,
just in case there's other deer with them or dear.
I mean you know, And so I've just had a
ton of success, especially pre rut, like before October the twenty,
when they're just on kind of feeding pattern, does responding
to grunt calls. Um. I've grunted plenty of big buck,

(54:23):
you know, some of these deer right here, we're grunted
in um. But here's but it doesn't always work. Yesterday, now,
I tried to salvage the spook deer yesterday. Once I
knew they were for sure leaving, I you know, grunted
at that big buck and it didn't work. You know,
he craned his neck and looked, and but they ended

(54:45):
up moving off. An hour later, I saw a younger
buck that I was pretty certain I wasn't gonna shoot,
but just I just saw it racked kind of probably
two year old type deer skirting sixty seventy yards away,
not gonna be within both range, perfect candidate to grunt in.
I grunted that dear, and he stopped and looked at

(55:05):
me and then just kept going like yeah, he he
didn't want he didn't hunt a bit about it. A
lot of times two year old boy they'll just come running.
They'll run right to the base of your tree, you know,
and they're looking around. Yeah man, mature bucks. Man, I'll
tell you gotta be really careful. They're super super smart. Yeah. Um.

(55:28):
Talking about rattling, I was about to say, and if
I had time to think about it, I think in Arkansas,
I've rattled up two bucks like mature bucks, like straight
up rattled them up, um, but kill. I couldn't have
killed either one u them with a bow I tried.
I mean, because they come in on full alert, stop

(55:52):
out there at thirty or forty yards facing you, because
you just you're the point source of this sound. And
they stand there for ten seconds and don't see another
deer and they turned around leave. So it's not effective.
If we were an open, big open country, and you know,
maybe could had a decoy, and that's a place where

(56:13):
a decoy would have worked, but I wouldn't trying to
kill a deal. I was trying to. You know, every
time I rattled in deer, I had set of rattling horns,
and both times was with horn actual horns. You know,
it was like the hunt was kind of dead, and
so I was like, I'm just gonna clack these horns
together and no telling how many times. I've done that

(56:35):
and it didn't work. Twice and thirty years of bo
hunting worked, you know. Um, but neither time did I
kill the deer because I didn't have a decoy out.
I and and I wouldn't had a decoy out because
it's just I was hunting a travel area like I

(56:57):
was expecting to kill a buck just walking through. I
didn't need a decoy. You see what I'm saying. It's
kind of like mishmash strategies some some of these big bucks,
even in the Midwest. The biggest buck I ever killed,
I was hunting with a decoy, and two days in
a row he stopped eighty yards from the decoy and
we just would not come in, and oh yeah, he

(57:20):
saw the decoy and everything, and you know, I got
to thinking, you know this, every time I had a
sighting of this deer, he was always by himself. He's
not got any broke nothing, or he's always by himself.
He's like a loner, a real passive type deer. So
two days in a row he stopped at eighty yards

(57:42):
from a decoy and just would not come in at all.
He just skirt around and and leave like he was
scared of it or something. So after two days of that,
I took that decoy and I throwed that thing in
the woods and I killed that buck the next day.
Killing the next day. Now what did he want to
come that way and the decoy was bumping in the way. Yeah,

(58:05):
so he just walked by it. Yeah. I didn't even
have to call him in or nothing. It was in
a trail. I was in a travel corridor I was at.
I mean, I was hunting a field edge and there's
a trail coming across this field. And man, I had
I passed up I think nine or ten poping young
class deer are bigger because I was hunting this deer.

(58:25):
He ended up scoring one, six and eight. So, I
mean I had passed up several really nice bucks. I
was video on them everything. They were interacting with the
decoy and everything. But this buck here, the one I
was after, he just would not come in. He's real passive.
And I took that decoy, I throwed that thing in
the woods, and I killed him very next day. I'll
be daring. Yeah. So this that's all podcast is about.

(58:48):
How don't use a decoy, ye, don't rattle, don't do
all this. No, that's good intel man. I've called a
lot of deer in by grunting or using a bleak
call to Yeah, yeah, man, that's good stuff. What do
you tell me, you're don't. Don't tell me what you

(59:09):
think people want to hear. Tell me the truth, rusty
um about scent control. Okay, because listen, here, here's my
here's my philosophy. Like there, when scent control products first
started coming out, the good hunters that were already doing
a whole bunch of stuff right that were taking white
tail honey really serious, started using the stuff because they

(59:33):
wanted to become the best that they could be. So
the guys that were using scent control all of a
sudden were the guys that had a ton of success
in the correlation point. Oftentimes there's correlation between things between
data points that seemed like they're connected, like white tail

(59:54):
hunting success equals using all the commercial scent control products success,
and so you make this connection, But really the correlation
isn't that. The correlation was that these guys were doing
a whole bunch of other stuff right now. I'm not
anti scent control. At different times I have been. I

(01:00:14):
made it. I made a facebook post commented on it, Well,
and I'm not I'm not totally convinced because the last
eight nine years I have used basically zero cent control.
Let me ask you this. You believe science, right, Okay,

(01:00:37):
I heard you say it on a podcast one time.
I love science. You know what this is, don't you.
It's chemical signs. I mean, so it works. I believe
it helps. I'm not gonna say, you know, and go
out and buy all this stuff and you're guaranteed that

(01:00:59):
a deer is not gonna til you and it all
and it. And it goes back to the argument about wind.
I mean, I mean there's I have a lot of
I guess off the wall or whatever opinions, But like
the spot I hunted yesterday, I'm not even worried about

(01:01:20):
the wind. I didn't even pick the tree that I
was in based on wind direction or anything. I I
picked the tree that I hunted out of where I
thought I would get a shot at a deer the wind.
I mean, if it's a perfect If I've got a
perfect north northwest wind or whatever, and there's a perfect

(01:01:40):
tree here, and I think all the nine of the
travel is going to be in this one direction. Yeah,
I can use the wind in my advantage. But most
of the time I don't even worry about the wind.
But it's not because of these products. Well, okay, so
what do you do though, Well I do. I stayed
to try to say it's clean as I can there

(01:02:01):
is does that mean by Washington? So you you're talking
about like sent free showers, literally taking cent free showers,
but not necessarily a hunting industry sent free soap and not.
I do not use a hunting industry deoderant. I'm not

(01:02:23):
gonna I'm not gonna say what deoderant. I use our
anti Prussian whatever you want to call it. I do
have a few secrets, but I do use some stuff. Uh.
But there is one thing that I do use a
lot of. And I learned this in the eighties from

(01:02:43):
my dad. I always told him, you know, you should
have back in the early eighties, you should have started
you've been a millionaire now if you'd have invented some
of this sent control and stuff. But he started using
baking soda. And I do use a lot of baking soda. Yeah,
in your clothes, my dad, in my clothes, I've done

(01:03:04):
the same thing. Maybe put it on on myself. So
that is one thing that I use in bacon soda.
You know, you just go to the grocery store and
bike because it absorbs sent It absorbs scent. Yeah. What
about your club? Okay, if if we were to go
hunting together this afternoon, would you hunting these clothes you're wearing.
Rusty's wearing camo right now? He just came out of

(01:03:25):
the woods. Yeah, done some scouting today and uh, I
just happened to these are some pants at a company
sent sentis to try out. And but would you go
sitting a stand right now? Where? No, So you do
you have do you carry do you have sent controlled
boxes in your truck with? Okay, that's why I want

(01:03:45):
to get out. I keep my clothes clean, uh, and
I wash them and I use a lot of baking
soda to wash my clothes. And I do use some
commercial uh scent free wash for clothes. Uh. And it's
so as I get them out if I can, I
like the air drome outside if I can in the
right place, and then then I've got our either bags

(01:04:07):
or containers that if a deer had come down wind
of you yesterday would have smelled you. Uh. May or
may not. I had a few deer come down wind
that did not smell me, and uh, it's it gets
a little deeper than just uh, you know, sent controlling yourself,
you know, like I mean the wind direction, you know,

(01:04:30):
what drifts, you know, all that kind of There's a
lot that goes in here. Here's my thoughts on it.
The thermals, Like the way I don't get winded very
often in the morning when thermals are rising because of heating,
you know, raising air temperature. You know, A lot of

(01:04:52):
the hunting that I'm doing, especially not around here, is
uh mountain hunting where I'm walking back into place is
a riding a mule in warm temperatures. And sent control
is just a joke. If you come hunt it, if
you hunt it with me back in there, you might
as well smell like a toilet. I mean, like it

(01:05:13):
doesn't matter. That is really what I was poking holes at. Like,
you know, don't tell me you gotta use sent control
to kill deer back in there. Or bear. I mean
a lot of my bear hunting is that way. I mean,
I am covered and sweat multiple times per day. Can't
take a cent free shower, can't my clothes. So but

(01:05:36):
now that I'm so, I'm kind of coming back. So
basically when I my dad instilled in a so deep
about I mean, it just made hunting so hard to
be sent free. You know, keep washing clothes, only wearing
clothes one time. It's keeping them sent free boxes. Like
I was in that for so long at the peak

(01:05:56):
of White Tail sent control stuff when it first came out,
and the late nineties through the two that when I
started kind of getting out on my own, I was like, man,
all you gotta do is hunt the wind and you
don't have to worry about all that stuff. That's really
the way I've operated for the last fifteen years, and
that it's not I don't feel like it's costed me
a ton of deer because I've killed a lot of

(01:06:18):
good deer hunting that way. But I'm starting to go
back to the other direction, especially on this hunting that's
you can control things. And for me, I live in
two different worlds. I live in this like public land,
backcountry world that I love, but also live in this
world where I'm hunting like farms that I'm driving my

(01:06:41):
truck up to and walking two hundred yards to a
deer stand like in in in that controlled environment, I'm
beginning to come back to, I might as well do
sin control. What do you think at why not just
say that? I mean, it just helps just a smidge

(01:07:01):
to me, it's worth doing. Well, let me play the
Devil's out of here. I want you to convince me
of something different. So I'm not trying to like squelch
your idea. But I've done everything to a t and
still had a deer smells you. You cannot if it's
like all the energy and effort that I put into

(01:07:22):
white tail deer hunting, if thirty percent of that effort
is going towards scent control, that that doesn't work a
lot of the time. I'm just like, I'm cutting that
thirty percent off. Do you understand what I'm saying? And
so that's basically what I've done for long, for ten
years or longer. But I'm coming back to a place

(01:07:46):
where it's like, well, like in yesterday is a great example,
like if I had because I did nothing for sent
control yesterday other than walk through a cow pie on
the way up there to come to my ground cent
because I was hunting the cattle farm, which is stellar
ground sin control, Yeah, just that the deer don't smell
me where I walk. I'm that farm. I walked through Colpivers.

(01:08:09):
You know, I had the thought yesterday if I had
done everything to a t because I didn't sweat going
in there. It was cold, I was close to my truck,
I didn't have I didn't have to you know, I
wasn't covered in sweat. Uh. You know, would that have?
Would that dough have walked through my scent which she
had just kind of spooked just a little bit and
walked through and then the buck come through. And I
think the answer that question is maybe she would have,

(01:08:32):
But I'm not. And I could have done everything and
spend all that energy and time and then they got
the exact same results. So yeah, I mean I can
agree with everything you're saying. You know, I do a
lot of scent control and do everything that I can do.
You spray, I do, Yeah, and I and I it's

(01:08:53):
proven that that stuff kills bacteria. I mean, it's proven
that it kills bacteria. Will it kill all of it? Probably?
Will it killed all of the sin on your clothes?
Probably not? What if it killed just twenty of it?
And that just a little bit was just enough to
get a deer five yards closer for a shot. Do
you what's your view on carbon clothes? Man, I don't

(01:09:16):
have a lot of recent intel. I've not paid any
attention to it in a long time, so, you know,
I was really skeptical of it. And I had a
friend of mine at work say, we were talking about
stuff like that. He said, Man, when I was over
in Iraq, he said, we wore carbon suits. He's like,
they were just real thick carbon suits. And he said

(01:09:39):
we would wear them things for like two weeks without
taking a bath. And he said nobody stunk. But he said,
when you took that thing off, he said it it
was just about making puke. I mean, the odor was
so bad when they took the suit off, it was
containing all that sent I'm just thinking, man, I mean,

(01:10:01):
there there must really be something to it. That's the science. Yeah. So,
and I got to thinking, if you went the carbon route,
I feel like you would need the you know, the pants,
the shirt, the head cover. I mean, you'd have to
really cover everything up. But even if you covered say

(01:10:22):
fifty of your body with it, and it's absorbing of
your scent, that might help just enough. Yeah, And I
think that's a great argument. And that's why i wanted
to talk to you about this because I'm wanting someone
to I'm not happy with my sent control regiment for
when I'm in a controlled hunt. A lot of my

(01:10:42):
hunting is uncontrolled. I'm back country stuff. You just in
warm weather stuff too. Boy. I mean, if you do
all that sent control and you break a sweat on
the way in there, all that is like you are
a Merino wool, don't you. Yeah, that's a natural odor
in hibit or, isn't it. Yes, it is so. I
mean I do wear some too. I don't like the

(01:11:05):
way it stays wet for I mean, like if you
get it wet, it takes forever to dry it out.
But I mean I do were especially undergarments, No, I
don't that was actually known for drying out quick. But
that's what it's known for. Absolutely drying out quicker than cotton,

(01:11:27):
way quicker. I know. But I mean, if dry out
faster than cotton, but it won't be Some synthetic material
dry really fast. I've been wearing the synthetic material under
on skin undergarments, and I mean they dry out just
like that, and then I put my marino wool on it.
It seems like it takes forever to dry out compared

(01:11:48):
to cotton. Yeah, I agree with you. Yes, yes, well, Rusty,
me and you both need to well you make you're
you're still kind of drying out from along along couple
of days of hunting. Yeah, I'm gonna try to go
hunt this afternoon, last couple of hours. Uh but uh no, man,

(01:12:08):
So you're you guys on Instagram or White Tail Warfare Yeah,
White Tell Warfare so you can follow Rusty and his
son Rusting. And our marketing manager is Dalton Clink Skills. Yeah. Yeah,
it's us three and uh, we have a very successful page.
We're mainly Instagram. We are on Facebook two, but our

(01:12:29):
main deal is Instagram right now, and we're working with
some great partners and it's it's going really good. Yeah. Cool. Yeah,
you guys post a lot of uh video footage and
stuff and truck camera truck camera footage. Our main deal
is is trail camera stuff. I mean, we really have

(01:12:49):
a lot of trail camera content and it's pretty cool
stuff and and viers really like it. So everything white too,
everything white till yep. Well, man, I'm glad. I'm really
glad I caught you, just barely caught you in the
moment when you come by, and anyway, awesome to have

(01:13:11):
you on And not like I said, I have a
town of respect for you, Rusty, I've always said it
for you as a as a as a hunter, as
a as a man, I I've I've learned a lot
from you. Your you really every year you inspire me, man,
because I'll text Rusty it like noon and He'll be like,
I'm in a tree yeah, and I'll be like, god

(01:13:34):
it I gotta get in the tree. Yeah. I'm I'm
pretty hardcore. I mean I live for this stuff. We
do it. Yeah. You take off a lot of time
this time, do Yeah? I have. I still have a
full time job. Uh Dalton has a full time job
in rusting, is in his second year of law school
right now. So uh so do you take off like

(01:13:56):
right now? Yeah, I've basically right now, I've got thirty
days in the row off And so I mean I
will be blogging the hours yeah. Yeah. And I'm I'm
pretty picky. I mean, if if I shoot one, it's
gonna be a decent It'll be poping. Young size are bigger,
you know. But yeah, thirty days of vacation right now,

(01:14:19):
just started hunting. Yeah all right man, Well good luck
to you, and uh I appreciate it, man, Yeah, thank
you for inviting me here and discussing some stuff. Yeah,
keep the wild lass wild, because that's where the big
bucks love. I try