October 1, 2024 • 35 mins
It's a mixed bag episode!
Sarah and Laura open by sharing a bit about their current routines now that the school year has been in full swing for a few weeks. Then, they discuss all things whining, from the inevitability to tips to help tone it down. Finally, they address a great (and interesting!) question from a listener about the merits of preschool vs daycare.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hi. I'm Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist,
and speaker.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
And I'm Sarah Hart Hunger, a mother of three, practicing physician, writer,
and course creator. We are two working parents who love
our careers and our families.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about
how real women manage work, family, and time for fun,
from figuring out childcare to mapping out long term career goals.
We want you to get the most out of life.
Welcome to best of both worlds. This is Laura. This
episode is airing at the beginning of October of twenty
(00:46):
twenty four. It's going to be a bit of a
Hodgepodge episode. We're going to do a quick rundown of
our new school year routines and what's working for us
and anything we're thinking of changing up. We're also going
to do a brief discussion of whining. Has been a
hot topic for us for our Patreon community forums. It happens.
(01:07):
I'm not saying my children ever whine, and I'm sure
nobody listening to this has children who ever whine, but
theoretically it could happen, and if so, we want to
share some thoughts about it and ways to deal with
it and hopefully come out of it with our own
mental health intact. And then finally, in the question, we're
going to do a slightly deeper dive into a question
(01:30):
about a childcare and early childhood education and how those
things fit together. But first of all, Sarah, you guys
are like six weeks into the new school year by
the time this is airing, right, you've been doing this
for a while.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Yes, we are. I know you said new school year
and I'm like newish at this point. I don't know
what percentage we are the way through, but it's not
tiny anymore. But we have had some changes, and I
feel like the time of this episode is good because
it's taken us a little while to settle into some
of those changes. And I'm not sure I would be
as calm if we had done this episode just a
(02:04):
week or two in, because there were just some things
I feel like we had to practice. But to summarize,
the biggest changes have been that we have two different schools,
which mean an earlier time to leave the house to
drop off the kids. This is not something our nanny
generally does for us, because she stays late so we
are my husband and I the ones kind of in
charge of drop off, and so beginning that process more
(02:26):
like seven twenty five versus the seven forty five seven
fifty we were used to actually kind of made a difference.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
So I'll talk about that.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
We've also had a lot later activities and more late
night activities. I think there's a kid with something until
eight forty five basically every night at the week, except
for Monday, when it's the latest is seven. So I
mean that's really different from what we'd experienced when the
kids were younger. And then we've also, I think just
(02:54):
had to kind of relate it to that deal with
a bit of a later bedtime. So just going through
each of those the earlier leaving has been okay in
that Actually, I would say the themes that there's been more
dividing and conquering than there ever was before. My husband
and I realized that actually if we each did one
drop off instead of one person being like a bus
(03:15):
and doing both, then that means we could leave closer
to the more previous typical time of around seven forty five.
And so we've created a schedule where some days I
take everyone, some days he takes everyone, and then most
of the other days we actually split them up, and
this has provided enough variety that it's kind of nice
because like then you get the one on one time
(03:36):
and some of the car rides with different groups of kids,
and then sometimes you're totally off, like I'm totally off
on Thursdays and he's totally off on Tuesdays, and I
just feel like we've gotten a nice balance there. So
it took some configuring and experimentation, but that's been good.
The late night activities has been very much helped by carpools,
which are kind of new to us. But I was
(03:58):
aggressive in seeking out carpool constituents for soccer in particular
because it does go quite late, and we were so
lucky to find two other families who live very close
by and conveniently. Soccer is three nights per week, so
we each now own a night, which means that's two
nights we don't own. Our nanny often helps with us,
so I mean selfishly, I actually don't do a lot
(04:19):
of soccer driving at all during the week at all.
I'm happy to watch games, but super excited not to
really be involved in the driving for practices and it's
been great. And then finally, my fear was that with
kids getting finished with stuff at eight forty five, that
we'd be going to bed at like ten thirty because
there'd be this protracted wine down. But we've kind of
gotten it, like, Okay, if Josh is picking up from gymnastics,
(04:41):
I'm heating up her dinner like while he's driving, so
that the second she gets home, I'm placing it in
front of her. She knows to just go ahead and
shower and we will just go to bed. And we've
gotten to the point where I think there was one
night that we did the driving like our nanny had
gone and we were all in bed by nine thirty
despite an eight forty five pickup, my husband and my
so included. So yeah, I feel like that took some practice,
(05:03):
but it is working better than I thought. I've talked
a lot, but yeah, I thought I would have to
alter my morning running routine more than I have, but
it's actually been okay.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Yeah, well, the days are long, but you've crammed it
all in so for now. I like that the transition
is so fast from like eight forty five pickup to
nine thirty bed That is very impressive. Yeah, I don't
know that I would wind down quite that fast, but
I guess I don't wake up quite as early in
the morning, although I did this morning. For unknown reasons,
(05:33):
I've been popping up randomly some mornings at like five am,
which is a whole different can of worms. But I
do have productive mornings on those days when I am
up at five am. So yeah, we've shifted some things
to as longtime listeners know, our school district decided to
adopt new start times this year in response to plenty
of research finding that adolescence just don't do well in
(05:57):
early mornings, and so you can have better at ten
and then it's better behavior, better graduation rates, all this
stuff if you start high school later. So our high
school now starts at eight thirty versus seven thirty, and
so that's been a pretty major change because we have
two children in high school. To accommodate that. Of course,
the middle school moved fifteen minutes earlier, which is causes
(06:17):
issues because middle schoolers are adolescents as well, so that's
not a huge win. But the bigger issue is that
in order to have the same number of buses running,
because we didn't magically get more buses or bus drivers.
In the course of this timing change, the middle school
bus has actually come quite early in order to get
(06:40):
the kids dropped off by about seven forty five seven
fifty so they can then start the high school run.
And so Ruth's time was pretty early. She has taken
the bus once and it's the same driver in the
morning in the afternoon, so she can give him a
heads up if she will be taking it in the morning,
so he knows to look for her and stop. Mornings
we've been driving her, and with driving, we usually don't
(07:04):
have to leave till seven thirty seven thirty five, and
so she can wake up at seven, which means nobody
really needs to be up before seven am in the morning,
which is great. Like I said, I'm off and up
before then, but that gives me a little quiet time
in the morning. I've been working, I've been running whatever else.
So she gets up, the high school boys get up
around seven thirty. They drive together most mornings, and then
(07:27):
the little boys start school at nine and nine ten, respectively,
although the nine to ten gets dropped off before the
nine because the nine ten is the elementary school and
they push back on tartis in a way that the
preschool does not, so it's it is a clear ranking
of the hierarchy of who it matters if you are late,
(07:48):
So we definitely drop the elementary school kit off first.
With all this, I did not want my work mornings
to start at nine thirty, which is what they would
need to start at if I were responsible every morning
for getting the little kids to the elementary school in preschool.
(08:08):
So we actually have our nanny coming even earlier now,
so she comes three mornings a week at seven thirty.
I basically say hello, say goodbye to Ruth, say goodbye
to the boys who can get themselves out the door,
the big boys, and then I go to my office
and I am to be working by seven forty. And
it's great, Like I love all I can accomplish. When
(08:31):
I have started at seven p forty, I wind up
doing the little kid getting ready two of the mornings
a week. One morning I tend not to be the
one driving, and then one morning I am driving, So
I still, you know, I get the mix of all
of it. But three mornings a week, I'm starting early,
unless something goes wrong like it did this morning when
the high school buses were running late, and Jasper has
(08:52):
a free period every fourth day his first hour, so
he doesn't get up to drive Sam. So Sam was
taking the bus, and then the buses were late, so
our nanny wind up driving Sam, and so I was
getting the little kids ready this morning. But when things
are going as they should, I.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Kind of impressed that you don't have to go to
your free period, like you could just roll in later,
that senior privilege.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
I guess, yeah, well, if it's first or last of
the day, obviously, you know, if it's like the third period,
you're not allowed to just like leave for an hour
in the middle of the day. I guess the rule is,
but if it's the first or the last, then you
can leave or come late as needed.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Cool.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
So yeah, that's the mornings. The other big shift. We
shifted the evenings too. I decided in Room No Devices
time is eight thirty. It is no longer nine, even
though people don't have to get up as early. I
just it was always running late when we started at nine.
People need that time for reading, for homework, for all
(09:53):
sorts of things. If we're bathing the little boys, like,
they wouldn't want to go up before nine, because like
they could have had their devices till nine and you know,
so it's like by starting at eight thirty at least
that can happen before endlessly late amounts of time.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
And you have an exception for homework correct.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Oh for device, well, they can keep their school laptops. Yeah,
so if they're doing homework, that's fine. And I gotta
say I am not militant with the seventeen year old,
partly because he's kind of responsible for his own stuff,
but it makes me gives it to me usually.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
But I mean, he's going to be on his own
next year, so having some kind of like gradation actually
makes sense versus it being like mom is like entirely
in charge of you and then free for all. So
I think, yeah, it's probably more strategic than you think.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
Yeah. Well, and I mean they use it as their
homework time, right and a lot of their stuff is
on their laptops now, so you know they need to
be on schoology so that that tends to be when
those happened. That was another reason to move it earlier,
as I wanted to make sure I could protect enough
times for the older boys when they sort of knew
this was the time that they needed to be focusing
(11:04):
on work. So yeah, it's what's happening now? Love it all? Right, Well,
let's take a quick ad break and then we'll be
back talking about whining. Well, we are back. We opened
(11:28):
with a discussion of new school year routines, what times
things are happening, how we have shifted things around. So fortunately,
there actually hasn't been that much whining about our new routines.
I worried there might be a little bit about the
earlier in your room time, but there hasn't been that much,
(11:49):
which has been good. I'm glad to hear it. But
you know, whining in general does happen, and we've had
some discussions with listeners and you know, peopeople who talk
about how it can kind of ruin something that would
otherwise be reasonably fun and generally why people whine. And
(12:12):
adults do this too, by the way, I mean, there's
definitely the sort of complaining tone that adults go into.
It's when you are unhappy about something but don't feel
you have the power to change it on your own,
so you tend to whine, which is more of a
submissive voice to the person that you believe could change it,
(12:33):
so it is understandable. It is a very rational way
of reacting to a situation. It is, of course, also
incredibly annoying. Is also annoying if it is something the
person has agreed to, let's say, but in the moment
feels like they do not wish to do it and
you are haranguing them to get out the door. I'm
(12:54):
sure this never happens in your family, Sarah, Never.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
No. I feel like everyone in my family has a
different style of whining, including myself. And you know, I
was just thinking, whinning is kind of like a little
bit passive aggressive sometimes, especially if you know the situation
is not going to change. But it's like, well, but
I can make it annoying for everyone so they can
hear all about it and it will feel like a
little bit good maybe, and yet accomplish nothing.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
So whining is rough.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
And yet there's like little kid whining. There's like the
tired whining. There's just like the incessant I'm not listening
to your no kind of a whining.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
I mean, I.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Feel like we're all whining professionals around here, and I
have to say I definitely whine sometimes when I make
a concerted effort not to whine. I'm usually pleasantly surprised
that the lack of whining tends to improve things.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Yeah, it's we all do it, But yeah, it doesn't
necessarily strike the person who is in charge in the
situation or who has the veto power or whatever that
they might wish to amate the whining. So I guess
it would just must be a reflex sort of thing
to do, because yeah, kids do it sort of automatically.
It's not like they learned to whine.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Well, especially maybe if it works a little bit.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Works intermittently, it's like the hamster hitting Yeah. Yeah, So
I mean, I think it's important to acknowledge that some
whining is inevitable, and that doesn't necessarily mean that anything
has to change. You can sort of decide that, okay,
(14:34):
into a little life, into life, a little whining must
inevitably fall, and with that as the mindset, that can
help to kind of stay grounded about the whole thing. Like,
it doesn't mean you should never do anything ever. Again,
that said, very few things are fun for the whole
family for the whole time. So you can be out
(14:57):
at an amusement park, which presumably you were doing for
your own edification, like you are there for your children.
Except at some point in this amazing day of going
to this amusement park, they're gonna be hot, they're gonna
be tired, they're gonna be waiting in line for a
ride that their sister wanted to go on but was
not in their top three. And that's when the whinning happens.
(15:21):
And so you can just get so mad that people
are whining about this expensive, time consuming trip to the
amusement park that you would not have been doing on
your own, or you can sort of say, well, there
will be whining today, but it's still going to overall
be a good day. We are aiming for a few
enjoyable moments.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Yeah, like not catastrophizing it because it's not Instagram reel
every second.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Yeah, nobody's life is Instagram reel every second, including people
who post much of their lives on Instagram. They edit
out the parts that are not Instagram were they? So Yeah,
if you're just with any te any activity any day,
really you're aiming for a few enjoyable moments. And if
you keep that as your goal, then you can let
it roll off your back a little bit more than
(16:10):
you might. That said, obviously, if you can involve people
in decisions, that might be helpful, so asking kids what
they would like to do. Obviously, there's not going to
be universal consensus and people can't get everything they want,
but when you give people some degree of choice, it
can be helpful. I also generally let children who are
(16:35):
old enough to stay home by themselves opt out of
things if it is not an important family value, as in, yes,
if we've decided to go visit relatives, you need to
do that, or yes, if we've decided to go to church,
let's say you're going to need to do that, but
you don't have to go apple picking like that has
I think it might be fun, but in general you
(16:57):
don't have to do it, not universally. We had some
major whining before a rafting trip because my older two
boys had opted out. Desper did not want to go.
Sam had a cross country meet so he had a reason.
So then Jasper volunteered to go pick him up. You know, okay, clever, yeah, clever.
(17:20):
But then that meant I could go on the trip,
which is fine. I was happy to go, but then
you know, we're on a raft we need four people
to row, and I couldn't have Henry row. Ruth didn't
want to go, so she was sort of unhappy about it,
but I couldn't not let her go because then we're
gonna have to pick somebody up off the street to
row for us.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Henry is pretty strong. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Yeah, our four year olds row in the boat through rapids.
That would have been a maybe maybe he could have
I don't know. He kind of held his he wanted
or but he kind of held it the side where
it kept hitting Michael's or helpful.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
I feel like the corollary of like leaving an older
kid home is also bringing a friend for them, because
I have it's like kind of magical that like two
twelve year olds actually wine half as much as one
twelve year old. I don't know that math is like backwards,
but yeah, I've seen it in action.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
If I'd thought about that, I have no time that
would have been because then we would have had even
an extra war ar you know, if I had somebody
else who could have rowed that stupid boat through the rapids.
But yeah, yeah, that would have been a smart thing
to do. But you got to choose your battles. I
am certainly not above bribery, you know, like, Okay, we're
doing this, and I know we'll be getting home close
(18:35):
to time, let's say on Sunday night, when you would
have to put your screens way, so maybe you get
them for an extra thirty minutes, or we do a
wah wah stop on the way home. Definitely, we stop
at Starbucks after church every week, which is not a
great broad because my kids seem to get Starbucks a lot,
but there was a period of time in my life
(18:57):
where we were not even allowed to go to any
commercial establishment on Sunday. So this seems like a big
give on my part. Not in my family, my family
of origin. But yeah, it's yeah, you know, you bribe
where you can.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
I will say I frequent Starbucks a lot, and I
don't really get tired of that as a bribe to myself,
so I can see why it would still work with
your children.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Do you have any bribes of this variety? I don't
know what the Florida equivalent of we have rita is
up here, so that's somewhere where wah wah.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
I mean we yeah, ice cream always work, dairy queen, etc.
But I have to say like for hiking, just having
really good snacks, like snacks outside of what we would
normally have, like yes, this is a time for that
bag of candy, or like whatever your dreams are made
of that you're gonna stop and eat after a mile
or whatever it is.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
So yeah, yeah, No, I think the snack thing is
important for long plane rides too. See people dole out
a new snack every ninety minutes on a plane. If
it's exciting enough, that can get you through quite a while,
although again inevitably whining. I believe the phrase from a
(20:04):
kJ deal Antonia, who has been on this podcast before.
She wrote a book called How to Be a Happier Parent.
I'm probably quoting this wrong because I didn't look it
up before I did these notes, but was that you
don't have to go down there, so that if your
kids are in a negative emotional state, you don't actually
(20:25):
have to match them. You are allowed to enjoy yourself
even if the people around you do not seem to
be actively enjoying themselves and are letting you know about that.
That your emotional state is within your purview and you
do not have to give that over to someone else.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
So interestingly, I had a very similar free well you
reminded me of it. But Erica Ladd from Girl next
Door podcast once said, my energy is my own. That
was where like tagline for like the phase of parenting
she was in, and that was exactly it, like not
to get wrapped up in her kids' stuff. And I
just love that. So, yeah, you don't have to go
down there. And my energy is my own.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
I love that. I love that. And then one thing
I do to talk myself into stuff sometimes that I'm
not terribly excited about doing in the moment, I thought
might have been cool in the past when I thought
about it, and then in the moment it's like, oh
am I going to do this. It's like if you
thought it would be enjoyable, or people generally do this
(21:28):
thing because it's fun. Pretty soon you're going to be
on the other side of it, and if it's something
that is generally fun, you probably will be happy that
you did it. So you know, in this particular rafting trip,
we did tell the kids in the morning, like, Okay,
we're going to be on the other side of this
in a couple hours, Like eventually it's going to be
Saturday night and we will have been on the rafting trip,
(21:50):
or we will have not. But most of the time
people go on the rafting trip because it's fun, right,
Like that's why people raft down rivers. It's not because
they're trying to get from point A to point B,
which there are much quicker ways to get from point
A to point B in Jones that people think it's
a fun activity, and it was. It was a lot
of fun, even though it rained on us, even though
(22:11):
it was kind of chilly, it was like sixty five
degrees and rainy, and yet we still had a good time.
And I could, you know, say that at the end
of lie like I'm not saying we have to do
this again tomorrow, but we did enjoy ourselves and like
we were like proud of our family for rowing that
four miles down the river and getting off the river
at the right spot even with the rapids and all that.
(22:32):
So you know, I'm not saying you have to say
I told you so afterwards or anything like that, but
you might narrate that things are generally fun, are like, oh, look,
we're enjoying ourselves that Oh yeah, we weren't sure we
wanted to do this, but oh look how good it was,
or yes, this might not be your favorite ride in
the universe, but in three minutes it will be over,
because all rides are over within three minutes, and then
you can go about your life. Love it, love it all. Right, Well,
(22:55):
we're going to take one more quick ad break and
then we will be back with a little bit of
a longer Q and a thinking about childcare and early
education options and how these fit together. Well, we are back.
(23:20):
We have been talking our new school year routines, about
the mornings and the evenings. We did a bit of
a deep dive into whining, and now we have a question, Sarah,
did you want to read this or you want me to?
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Or sure? I feel like you're gonna get on your soapbox.
So okay, okay, I know a lot of times we
abridge our stuff, but I'll read most of this because
I think it's a great.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
I bridged it slightly in the version.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
I will it's already so concise and clear.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
All right, Okay, you can read my notes, Sarah.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
I'm curious you're experience sending your kids to preschool for
the first time. Thoughts on sending them at three verses,
four half days, full days, or both. My daughter I
just turned three, and my husband and I aren't sure
if we should consider preschool sooner rather than later or not.
She loves her current daycare and they seem to have
a good preschool program, but with her going to the
local public school for kindergarten, are there pros of going
(24:12):
to the public school preschool program at three or four?
How do we make this decision? Are there things we
should consider? From your experience, there seem to be so
many options, but not a lot of information about why
we would choose one over another. Also curious if there
were some things you did to prepare them when they
do start preschool that ease the transition, as her daycare
is all she knows.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Yeah, So when I read this question, it set me
off on a little tangent, which is a little bit
of a soapbox here, because sometimes people think there is
a difference between daycare and preschool, And so the thing is,
a high quality daycare center is preschool right like they
(24:57):
do early childhood education activities, only you get the extra
wrap around care too. So I can assure you that
when I sent Jasper to daycare for the first four
years of his life, by the time they were about
eighteen months, they were doing early childhood education curricula. They
were working on holding a pencil. Eventually, by the time
(25:18):
they were about three or so, they were learning you know,
letters and numbers and colors and days of the week
and months of the year or whatever else you're supposed
to be doing. They were practicing making letters. By the
time they could hold a pencil, they were doing early
math curriculum. They were working on early literacy. Once they
were you know, three and four years old, so it
(25:40):
was preschool. The only difference was you could drop them
off at eight and pick them up after five, right like,
which a lot of preschools do not offer that that
are only preschools. So high quality daycare is preschool with
wrap around care. Now, the reason this matters is because
(26:01):
I feel like in our cultural conversation daycare is often
seen as bad. So, like, literally, there was this viral
tweet a few months ago. I don't know, I was
off Twitter for a while and then I got back on,
and then I was sad that I got on because
I see's still like this. But some young childless dude
had seen like a daycare near his house, and I
guess some kid on the playground looks playground looks sad,
(26:24):
and so he thought he tweeted out daycare should be banned, okay,
and some people were like liking this or whatever. I mean,
it's just so stupid, right, So it's like daycare is bad,
where's preschool? Like preschool is good? Like maybe a kid
cries on the playground there, but well, it's pre school learning.
(26:46):
It's learning, Like if they fall on the preschool playground,
it's fine. I don't know, so I struggled to get
my head around this, because again, remember, high quality, center
based daycare is preschool with wrap around care. But as
far as I can tell, the issue is that working
moms use something that is called daycare, and working moms
(27:06):
are bad, and airgo daycare is bad, but stay at
home moms use preschool, and stay at home moms are good,
and therefore preschool is good. And this is literally the
depth of the reasoning in this conversation.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
I think you're I was reflecting on this. I think
you're very right, And interestingly, I feel like there's been
a shift in all demographics in calling daycare preschool, even
if it's absolutely a classic daycare, like we even have
these daycares in the area that are awesome because they're
for like medically complex kids and they're subsidized, but they
also offer like medical services. And I'll hear parents calling
(27:46):
it preschool. I'm like, great, okay, it makes them feel better.
But then if you actually think about, like, well, why
does that make them feel better? It's exactly what you said,
because daycare is bad because it's for the parents. They're
caring for the kid while you get to do your
own stuff, versus preschool for the child, it's only for
their Enrichmond, who cares what mom is doing? And this
is like what we've talked about so many times, which
is like we can't too, and maybe it can be
(28:10):
for both of us. Maybe there could be a best
of both worlds in here where my kid is actually
getting engaged and taught and learning, and I'm getting to
go to work, build my business, do whatever I want.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
Yeah. Well, and especially I mean just as you know, yeah,
because like and I would even I mean, we do
what we need to do during the days. And you know,
if some people obviously work as a financial necessity, So
I feel really bad that people are making somebody who
really truly does need to go to work for full time,
(28:42):
Like feel bad about that that they're using childcare which
is preschool, like whereas you know if it was a preschool,
it'd be different. But anyway, so off the soapbox. Now
to our listener, if your kid is happy at daycare,
there is zero reason to switch, Okay, like zero. You
are not missing something by not sending her to something
(29:03):
that is specifically labeled as a preschool. She is getting
all of that at her daycare, which you've pointed out
has a preschool program, so there is nothing different that
they are going to do, Like you're gonna learn the
same months of the year. They don't learn different ones
at preschool, Like you're gonna learn the same numbers, You're
(29:24):
gonna certain the same fine motor grip so you can
hold a pencil, Like this is all the same stuff
that they are going to learn. So you do not
have to switch, because again daycare is preschool with wrap
around care. Now, in this listener scenario, the reasons that
she could switch partly if it is a public preschool option,
it might be free, Like I presume it is free
(29:47):
as a public school option, so she would have to
run the numbers on that.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Eh, yes, and no, like we have in Florida, there's
a lot of public PreK programs that are actually not free.
They're oh okay, they're not as expensive, maybe private, but
I don't know. They're sort of incorporated into the public school.
But they're extra cost. Yeah they are extra cost. Yeah,
well so then obviously that changes it too.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
Like then again, there's not really a whole lot of
reason to pull her out to send her to that,
because the problem is you would have to then recreate
the wrap around care that you are currently getting if
you put her in a preschool program. Now, maybe the
numbers would work, Like if it is a free program,
maybe it would be significantly cheaper to hire somebody, But again,
(30:30):
it's hard to get somebody to work a part time job,
like a part time nanny who wants to come in
the morning and then come again in the afternoon. Like
it doesn't there's not that many people who would want
to do that. So probably you and your partner would
be covering one of those, right, Like you would either
bring your child to preschool at nine o'clock and need
(30:52):
to flex your work hours to start after that, or
else one of you would need to end by three
o'clock or whatever the time is for daycare, if you
had help in the morning in order to get the
same wrap around care. Now again, possibly if it is
a public preschool option that maybe you have enlightened legislators
(31:12):
in your area who have created wrap around care for
the preschool, in which case great, then maybe you could
approximate the hours you're getting in the daycare. And if
you wanted to switch in order to have that same
social group of kids who would be going to that
elementary school over the next few years, then that might
make sense. But you need to make sure that you're
(31:33):
getting the hours that you need to to work, and
a preschool might not automatically do that. They'd get you
somewhat of the way there, but they wouldn't get you
all of the way there, and so if you don't
have a whole lot of flexibility, you would need to
figure that out.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
No, that makes sense. Yeah, I wonder if part of
it was the social peace. And then she did ask
about tips for adjusting to the new environment, and I mean,
it's probably if they're used to going to daycare, my
guess is that they're gonna be able to adjust. Okay, Obviously,
any new situation is going to be tough for any
new kid, but probably easier for a kid who's already
been in daycare versus someone who's been home.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
Yeah. Yeah, for what it's worth. I mean, we've had
a full time nanny the whole time, So we wound
up doing preschool starting at about age three for the
other kids, you know, after we left New York, and
we're no longer using a daycare option. Henry, for instance,
went three days from nine to twelve his first year
(32:30):
of preschool, then the next year he went five days
nine to twelve, and now he is doing five days
nine to three as he is four point seventy five.
He'll be turning five in a few months, so you know,
that's sort of the ramp up that we did with it.
But obviously three hours, five mornings a week is not
(32:51):
going to cover your work hours, so you'd need other
care beyond that if you're going to use that option.
All right, love the week. Well, so mine is opening
the window. I have one window in my office that
has this roll screen thing. It's kind of cool, like
you open the window and the screen automatically appears, but
(33:11):
you don't see the screen. When you're just looking out
the window, it's like in the well of the sill,
so you push it up and then there's a screen.
And so it's nice because I can open it. At
this time of year September October, usually during the day
the weather is quite nice. Autumn breeze here, the trees here,
the birds makes me feel like I'm bringing the outside in.
(33:33):
So that's a benefit. And I don't do it obviously
in July because it's too hot, and I don't do
it in January because it's too cold. But there are
some months of the year where it makes sense to
do so I need to remind myself to do it well.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
I will also go weather related, although we are not
opening our windows just yet.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
Maybe ever. No, I'm just kidding.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
Just noticing tiny incremental improvements in the weather is making
me happy right now. Maybe in the month of October,
which is just beginning today as this airs, maybe we'll
get our first morning under seventy. Probably not, honestly, I
think that's more of a November thing. But even if
we start to approach the low seventies on a regular
basis at six am, I will be thrilled. So going
(34:14):
in the right direction.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
Yay, yay, heading into the good time of year in Florida,
the time that everybody else then wants to go to Florida.
So there's a reason people are heading there every winter.
All right, Well, this has been best of both worlds.
It's been a mix of an episode. We discussed our
new morning and evening routines with the school year. We
talked about whining. We went into the difference or more importantly,
(34:39):
the lack thereof, between daycare and preschool except in terms
of total hours offered. Which daycare attends to have the
advantage on that one. But anyway, a lot of different topics.
As always, we love to hear from you guys. If
you have ideas for future episodes, things you'd like to
us to talk about, questions you might have, let us know.
You can always reach me at lo Ura at Laura
(35:00):
vandercam dot com. We will be back next week with
more on making work and life fit together.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah at the
shoebox dot com or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram,
and you.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
Can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This
has been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please join
us next time for more on making work and life
work together.
Hi. I'm Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist,
and speaker.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
And I'm Sarah Hart Hunger, a mother of three, practicing physician, writer,
and course creator. We are two working parents who love
our careers and our families.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about
how real women manage work, family, and time for fun,
from figuring out childcare to mapping out long term career goals.
We want you to get the most out of life.
Welcome to best of both worlds. This is Laura. This
episode is airing at the beginning of October of twenty
(00:46):
twenty four. It's going to be a bit of a
Hodgepodge episode. We're going to do a quick rundown of
our new school year routines and what's working for us
and anything we're thinking of changing up. We're also going
to do a brief discussion of whining. Has been a
hot topic for us for our Patreon community forums. It happens.
(01:07):
I'm not saying my children ever whine, and I'm sure
nobody listening to this has children who ever whine, but
theoretically it could happen, and if so, we want to
share some thoughts about it and ways to deal with
it and hopefully come out of it with our own
mental health intact. And then finally, in the question, we're
going to do a slightly deeper dive into a question
(01:30):
about a childcare and early childhood education and how those
things fit together. But first of all, Sarah, you guys
are like six weeks into the new school year by
the time this is airing, right, you've been doing this
for a while.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Yes, we are. I know you said new school year
and I'm like newish at this point. I don't know
what percentage we are the way through, but it's not
tiny anymore. But we have had some changes, and I
feel like the time of this episode is good because
it's taken us a little while to settle into some
of those changes. And I'm not sure I would be
as calm if we had done this episode just a
(02:04):
week or two in, because there were just some things
I feel like we had to practice. But to summarize,
the biggest changes have been that we have two different schools,
which mean an earlier time to leave the house to
drop off the kids. This is not something our nanny
generally does for us, because she stays late so we
are my husband and I the ones kind of in
charge of drop off, and so beginning that process more
(02:26):
like seven twenty five versus the seven forty five seven
fifty we were used to actually kind of made a difference.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
So I'll talk about that.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
We've also had a lot later activities and more late
night activities. I think there's a kid with something until
eight forty five basically every night at the week, except
for Monday, when it's the latest is seven. So I
mean that's really different from what we'd experienced when the
kids were younger. And then we've also, I think just
(02:54):
had to kind of relate it to that deal with
a bit of a later bedtime. So just going through
each of those the earlier leaving has been okay in
that Actually, I would say the themes that there's been more
dividing and conquering than there ever was before. My husband
and I realized that actually if we each did one
drop off instead of one person being like a bus
(03:15):
and doing both, then that means we could leave closer
to the more previous typical time of around seven forty five.
And so we've created a schedule where some days I
take everyone, some days he takes everyone, and then most
of the other days we actually split them up, and
this has provided enough variety that it's kind of nice
because like then you get the one on one time
(03:36):
and some of the car rides with different groups of kids,
and then sometimes you're totally off, like I'm totally off
on Thursdays and he's totally off on Tuesdays, and I
just feel like we've gotten a nice balance there. So
it took some configuring and experimentation, but that's been good.
The late night activities has been very much helped by carpools,
which are kind of new to us. But I was
(03:58):
aggressive in seeking out carpool constituents for soccer in particular
because it does go quite late, and we were so
lucky to find two other families who live very close
by and conveniently. Soccer is three nights per week, so
we each now own a night, which means that's two
nights we don't own. Our nanny often helps with us,
so I mean selfishly, I actually don't do a lot
(04:19):
of soccer driving at all during the week at all.
I'm happy to watch games, but super excited not to
really be involved in the driving for practices and it's
been great. And then finally, my fear was that with
kids getting finished with stuff at eight forty five, that
we'd be going to bed at like ten thirty because
there'd be this protracted wine down. But we've kind of
gotten it, like, Okay, if Josh is picking up from gymnastics,
(04:41):
I'm heating up her dinner like while he's driving, so
that the second she gets home, I'm placing it in
front of her. She knows to just go ahead and
shower and we will just go to bed. And we've
gotten to the point where I think there was one
night that we did the driving like our nanny had
gone and we were all in bed by nine thirty
despite an eight forty five pickup, my husband and my
so included. So yeah, I feel like that took some practice,
(05:03):
but it is working better than I thought. I've talked
a lot, but yeah, I thought I would have to
alter my morning running routine more than I have, but
it's actually been okay.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Yeah, well, the days are long, but you've crammed it
all in so for now. I like that the transition
is so fast from like eight forty five pickup to
nine thirty bed That is very impressive. Yeah, I don't
know that I would wind down quite that fast, but
I guess I don't wake up quite as early in
the morning, although I did this morning. For unknown reasons,
(05:33):
I've been popping up randomly some mornings at like five am,
which is a whole different can of worms. But I
do have productive mornings on those days when I am
up at five am. So yeah, we've shifted some things
to as longtime listeners know, our school district decided to
adopt new start times this year in response to plenty
of research finding that adolescence just don't do well in
(05:57):
early mornings, and so you can have better at ten
and then it's better behavior, better graduation rates, all this
stuff if you start high school later. So our high
school now starts at eight thirty versus seven thirty, and
so that's been a pretty major change because we have
two children in high school. To accommodate that. Of course,
the middle school moved fifteen minutes earlier, which is causes
(06:17):
issues because middle schoolers are adolescents as well, so that's
not a huge win. But the bigger issue is that
in order to have the same number of buses running,
because we didn't magically get more buses or bus drivers.
In the course of this timing change, the middle school
bus has actually come quite early in order to get
(06:40):
the kids dropped off by about seven forty five seven
fifty so they can then start the high school run.
And so Ruth's time was pretty early. She has taken
the bus once and it's the same driver in the
morning in the afternoon, so she can give him a
heads up if she will be taking it in the morning,
so he knows to look for her and stop. Mornings
we've been driving her, and with driving, we usually don't
(07:04):
have to leave till seven thirty seven thirty five, and
so she can wake up at seven, which means nobody
really needs to be up before seven am in the morning,
which is great. Like I said, I'm off and up
before then, but that gives me a little quiet time
in the morning. I've been working, I've been running whatever else.
So she gets up, the high school boys get up
around seven thirty. They drive together most mornings, and then
(07:27):
the little boys start school at nine and nine ten, respectively,
although the nine to ten gets dropped off before the
nine because the nine ten is the elementary school and
they push back on tartis in a way that the
preschool does not, so it's it is a clear ranking
of the hierarchy of who it matters if you are late,
(07:48):
So we definitely drop the elementary school kit off first.
With all this, I did not want my work mornings
to start at nine thirty, which is what they would
need to start at if I were responsible every morning
for getting the little kids to the elementary school in preschool.
(08:08):
So we actually have our nanny coming even earlier now,
so she comes three mornings a week at seven thirty.
I basically say hello, say goodbye to Ruth, say goodbye
to the boys who can get themselves out the door,
the big boys, and then I go to my office
and I am to be working by seven forty. And
it's great, Like I love all I can accomplish. When
(08:31):
I have started at seven p forty, I wind up
doing the little kid getting ready two of the mornings
a week. One morning I tend not to be the
one driving, and then one morning I am driving, So
I still, you know, I get the mix of all
of it. But three mornings a week, I'm starting early,
unless something goes wrong like it did this morning when
the high school buses were running late, and Jasper has
(08:52):
a free period every fourth day his first hour, so
he doesn't get up to drive Sam. So Sam was
taking the bus, and then the buses were late, so
our nanny wind up driving Sam, and so I was
getting the little kids ready this morning. But when things
are going as they should, I.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Kind of impressed that you don't have to go to
your free period, like you could just roll in later,
that senior privilege.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
I guess, yeah, well, if it's first or last of
the day, obviously, you know, if it's like the third period,
you're not allowed to just like leave for an hour
in the middle of the day. I guess the rule is,
but if it's the first or the last, then you
can leave or come late as needed.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Cool.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
So yeah, that's the mornings. The other big shift. We
shifted the evenings too. I decided in Room No Devices
time is eight thirty. It is no longer nine, even
though people don't have to get up as early. I
just it was always running late when we started at nine.
People need that time for reading, for homework, for all
(09:53):
sorts of things. If we're bathing the little boys, like,
they wouldn't want to go up before nine, because like
they could have had their devices till nine and you know,
so it's like by starting at eight thirty at least
that can happen before endlessly late amounts of time.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
And you have an exception for homework correct.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Oh for device, well, they can keep their school laptops. Yeah,
so if they're doing homework, that's fine. And I gotta
say I am not militant with the seventeen year old,
partly because he's kind of responsible for his own stuff,
but it makes me gives it to me usually.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
But I mean, he's going to be on his own
next year, so having some kind of like gradation actually
makes sense versus it being like mom is like entirely
in charge of you and then free for all. So
I think, yeah, it's probably more strategic than you think.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
Yeah. Well, and I mean they use it as their
homework time, right and a lot of their stuff is
on their laptops now, so you know they need to
be on schoology so that that tends to be when
those happened. That was another reason to move it earlier,
as I wanted to make sure I could protect enough
times for the older boys when they sort of knew
this was the time that they needed to be focusing
(11:04):
on work. So yeah, it's what's happening now? Love it all? Right, Well,
let's take a quick ad break and then we'll be
back talking about whining. Well, we are back. We opened
(11:28):
with a discussion of new school year routines, what times
things are happening, how we have shifted things around. So fortunately,
there actually hasn't been that much whining about our new routines.
I worried there might be a little bit about the
earlier in your room time, but there hasn't been that much,
(11:49):
which has been good. I'm glad to hear it. But
you know, whining in general does happen, and we've had
some discussions with listeners and you know, peopeople who talk
about how it can kind of ruin something that would
otherwise be reasonably fun and generally why people whine. And
(12:12):
adults do this too, by the way, I mean, there's
definitely the sort of complaining tone that adults go into.
It's when you are unhappy about something but don't feel
you have the power to change it on your own,
so you tend to whine, which is more of a
submissive voice to the person that you believe could change it,
(12:33):
so it is understandable. It is a very rational way
of reacting to a situation. It is, of course, also
incredibly annoying. Is also annoying if it is something the
person has agreed to, let's say, but in the moment
feels like they do not wish to do it and
you are haranguing them to get out the door. I'm
(12:54):
sure this never happens in your family, Sarah, Never.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
No. I feel like everyone in my family has a
different style of whining, including myself. And you know, I
was just thinking, whinning is kind of like a little
bit passive aggressive sometimes, especially if you know the situation
is not going to change. But it's like, well, but
I can make it annoying for everyone so they can
hear all about it and it will feel like a
little bit good maybe, and yet accomplish nothing.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
So whining is rough.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
And yet there's like little kid whining. There's like the
tired whining. There's just like the incessant I'm not listening
to your no kind of a whining.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
I mean, I.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Feel like we're all whining professionals around here, and I
have to say I definitely whine sometimes when I make
a concerted effort not to whine. I'm usually pleasantly surprised
that the lack of whining tends to improve things.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Yeah, it's we all do it, But yeah, it doesn't
necessarily strike the person who is in charge in the
situation or who has the veto power or whatever that
they might wish to amate the whining. So I guess
it would just must be a reflex sort of thing
to do, because yeah, kids do it sort of automatically.
It's not like they learned to whine.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Well, especially maybe if it works a little bit.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Works intermittently, it's like the hamster hitting Yeah. Yeah, So
I mean, I think it's important to acknowledge that some
whining is inevitable, and that doesn't necessarily mean that anything
has to change. You can sort of decide that, okay,
(14:34):
into a little life, into life, a little whining must
inevitably fall, and with that as the mindset, that can
help to kind of stay grounded about the whole thing. Like,
it doesn't mean you should never do anything ever. Again,
that said, very few things are fun for the whole
family for the whole time. So you can be out
(14:57):
at an amusement park, which presumably you were doing for
your own edification, like you are there for your children.
Except at some point in this amazing day of going
to this amusement park, they're gonna be hot, they're gonna
be tired, they're gonna be waiting in line for a
ride that their sister wanted to go on but was
not in their top three. And that's when the whinning happens.
(15:21):
And so you can just get so mad that people
are whining about this expensive, time consuming trip to the
amusement park that you would not have been doing on
your own, or you can sort of say, well, there
will be whining today, but it's still going to overall
be a good day. We are aiming for a few
enjoyable moments.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Yeah, like not catastrophizing it because it's not Instagram reel
every second.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Yeah, nobody's life is Instagram reel every second, including people
who post much of their lives on Instagram. They edit
out the parts that are not Instagram were they? So Yeah,
if you're just with any te any activity any day,
really you're aiming for a few enjoyable moments. And if
you keep that as your goal, then you can let
it roll off your back a little bit more than
(16:10):
you might. That said, obviously, if you can involve people
in decisions, that might be helpful, so asking kids what
they would like to do. Obviously, there's not going to
be universal consensus and people can't get everything they want,
but when you give people some degree of choice, it
can be helpful. I also generally let children who are
(16:35):
old enough to stay home by themselves opt out of
things if it is not an important family value, as in, yes,
if we've decided to go visit relatives, you need to
do that, or yes, if we've decided to go to church,
let's say you're going to need to do that, but
you don't have to go apple picking like that has
I think it might be fun, but in general you
(16:57):
don't have to do it, not universally. We had some
major whining before a rafting trip because my older two
boys had opted out. Desper did not want to go.
Sam had a cross country meet so he had a reason.
So then Jasper volunteered to go pick him up. You know, okay, clever, yeah, clever.
(17:20):
But then that meant I could go on the trip,
which is fine. I was happy to go, but then
you know, we're on a raft we need four people
to row, and I couldn't have Henry row. Ruth didn't
want to go, so she was sort of unhappy about it,
but I couldn't not let her go because then we're
gonna have to pick somebody up off the street to
row for us.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Henry is pretty strong. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Yeah, our four year olds row in the boat through rapids.
That would have been a maybe maybe he could have
I don't know. He kind of held his he wanted
or but he kind of held it the side where
it kept hitting Michael's or helpful.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
I feel like the corollary of like leaving an older
kid home is also bringing a friend for them, because
I have it's like kind of magical that like two
twelve year olds actually wine half as much as one
twelve year old. I don't know that math is like backwards,
but yeah, I've seen it in action.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
If I'd thought about that, I have no time that
would have been because then we would have had even
an extra war ar you know, if I had somebody
else who could have rowed that stupid boat through the rapids.
But yeah, yeah, that would have been a smart thing
to do. But you got to choose your battles. I
am certainly not above bribery, you know, like, Okay, we're
doing this, and I know we'll be getting home close
(18:35):
to time, let's say on Sunday night, when you would
have to put your screens way, so maybe you get
them for an extra thirty minutes, or we do a
wah wah stop on the way home. Definitely, we stop
at Starbucks after church every week, which is not a
great broad because my kids seem to get Starbucks a lot,
but there was a period of time in my life
(18:57):
where we were not even allowed to go to any
commercial establishment on Sunday. So this seems like a big
give on my part. Not in my family, my family
of origin. But yeah, it's yeah, you know, you bribe
where you can.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
I will say I frequent Starbucks a lot, and I
don't really get tired of that as a bribe to myself,
so I can see why it would still work with
your children.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Do you have any bribes of this variety? I don't
know what the Florida equivalent of we have rita is
up here, so that's somewhere where wah wah.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
I mean we yeah, ice cream always work, dairy queen, etc.
But I have to say like for hiking, just having
really good snacks, like snacks outside of what we would
normally have, like yes, this is a time for that
bag of candy, or like whatever your dreams are made
of that you're gonna stop and eat after a mile
or whatever it is.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
So yeah, yeah, No, I think the snack thing is
important for long plane rides too. See people dole out
a new snack every ninety minutes on a plane. If
it's exciting enough, that can get you through quite a while,
although again inevitably whining. I believe the phrase from a
(20:04):
kJ deal Antonia, who has been on this podcast before.
She wrote a book called How to Be a Happier Parent.
I'm probably quoting this wrong because I didn't look it
up before I did these notes, but was that you
don't have to go down there, so that if your
kids are in a negative emotional state, you don't actually
(20:25):
have to match them. You are allowed to enjoy yourself
even if the people around you do not seem to
be actively enjoying themselves and are letting you know about that.
That your emotional state is within your purview and you
do not have to give that over to someone else.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
So interestingly, I had a very similar free well you
reminded me of it. But Erica Ladd from Girl next
Door podcast once said, my energy is my own. That
was where like tagline for like the phase of parenting
she was in, and that was exactly it, like not
to get wrapped up in her kids' stuff. And I
just love that. So, yeah, you don't have to go
down there. And my energy is my own.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
I love that. I love that. And then one thing
I do to talk myself into stuff sometimes that I'm
not terribly excited about doing in the moment, I thought
might have been cool in the past when I thought
about it, and then in the moment it's like, oh
am I going to do this. It's like if you
thought it would be enjoyable, or people generally do this
(21:28):
thing because it's fun. Pretty soon you're going to be
on the other side of it, and if it's something
that is generally fun, you probably will be happy that
you did it. So you know, in this particular rafting trip,
we did tell the kids in the morning, like, Okay,
we're going to be on the other side of this
in a couple hours, Like eventually it's going to be
Saturday night and we will have been on the rafting trip,
(21:50):
or we will have not. But most of the time
people go on the rafting trip because it's fun, right,
Like that's why people raft down rivers. It's not because
they're trying to get from point A to point B,
which there are much quicker ways to get from point
A to point B in Jones that people think it's
a fun activity, and it was. It was a lot
of fun, even though it rained on us, even though
(22:11):
it was kind of chilly, it was like sixty five
degrees and rainy, and yet we still had a good time.
And I could, you know, say that at the end
of lie like I'm not saying we have to do
this again tomorrow, but we did enjoy ourselves and like
we were like proud of our family for rowing that
four miles down the river and getting off the river
at the right spot even with the rapids and all that.
(22:32):
So you know, I'm not saying you have to say
I told you so afterwards or anything like that, but
you might narrate that things are generally fun, are like, oh, look,
we're enjoying ourselves that Oh yeah, we weren't sure we
wanted to do this, but oh look how good it was,
or yes, this might not be your favorite ride in
the universe, but in three minutes it will be over,
because all rides are over within three minutes, and then
you can go about your life. Love it, love it all. Right, Well,
(22:55):
we're going to take one more quick ad break and
then we will be back with a little bit of
a longer Q and a thinking about childcare and early
education options and how these fit together. Well, we are back.
(23:20):
We have been talking our new school year routines, about
the mornings and the evenings. We did a bit of
a deep dive into whining, and now we have a question, Sarah,
did you want to read this or you want me to?
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Or sure? I feel like you're gonna get on your soapbox.
So okay, okay, I know a lot of times we
abridge our stuff, but I'll read most of this because
I think it's a great.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
I bridged it slightly in the version.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
I will it's already so concise and clear.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
All right, Okay, you can read my notes, Sarah.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
I'm curious you're experience sending your kids to preschool for
the first time. Thoughts on sending them at three verses,
four half days, full days, or both. My daughter I
just turned three, and my husband and I aren't sure
if we should consider preschool sooner rather than later or not.
She loves her current daycare and they seem to have
a good preschool program, but with her going to the
local public school for kindergarten, are there pros of going
(24:12):
to the public school preschool program at three or four?
How do we make this decision? Are there things we
should consider? From your experience, there seem to be so
many options, but not a lot of information about why
we would choose one over another. Also curious if there
were some things you did to prepare them when they
do start preschool that ease the transition, as her daycare
is all she knows.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Yeah, So when I read this question, it set me
off on a little tangent, which is a little bit
of a soapbox here, because sometimes people think there is
a difference between daycare and preschool, And so the thing is,
a high quality daycare center is preschool right like they
(24:57):
do early childhood education activities, only you get the extra
wrap around care too. So I can assure you that
when I sent Jasper to daycare for the first four
years of his life, by the time they were about
eighteen months, they were doing early childhood education curricula. They
were working on holding a pencil. Eventually, by the time
(25:18):
they were about three or so, they were learning you know,
letters and numbers and colors and days of the week
and months of the year or whatever else you're supposed
to be doing. They were practicing making letters. By the
time they could hold a pencil, they were doing early
math curriculum. They were working on early literacy. Once they
were you know, three and four years old, so it
(25:40):
was preschool. The only difference was you could drop them
off at eight and pick them up after five, right like,
which a lot of preschools do not offer that that
are only preschools. So high quality daycare is preschool with
wrap around care. Now, the reason this matters is because
(26:01):
I feel like in our cultural conversation daycare is often
seen as bad. So, like, literally, there was this viral
tweet a few months ago. I don't know, I was
off Twitter for a while and then I got back on,
and then I was sad that I got on because
I see's still like this. But some young childless dude
had seen like a daycare near his house, and I
guess some kid on the playground looks playground looks sad,
(26:24):
and so he thought he tweeted out daycare should be banned, okay,
and some people were like liking this or whatever. I mean,
it's just so stupid, right, So it's like daycare is bad,
where's preschool? Like preschool is good? Like maybe a kid
cries on the playground there, but well, it's pre school learning.
(26:46):
It's learning, Like if they fall on the preschool playground,
it's fine. I don't know, so I struggled to get
my head around this, because again, remember, high quality, center
based daycare is preschool with wrap around care. But as
far as I can tell, the issue is that working
moms use something that is called daycare, and working moms
(27:06):
are bad, and airgo daycare is bad, but stay at
home moms use preschool, and stay at home moms are good,
and therefore preschool is good. And this is literally the
depth of the reasoning in this conversation.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
I think you're I was reflecting on this. I think
you're very right, And interestingly, I feel like there's been
a shift in all demographics in calling daycare preschool, even
if it's absolutely a classic daycare, like we even have
these daycares in the area that are awesome because they're
for like medically complex kids and they're subsidized, but they
also offer like medical services. And I'll hear parents calling
(27:46):
it preschool. I'm like, great, okay, it makes them feel better.
But then if you actually think about, like, well, why
does that make them feel better? It's exactly what you said,
because daycare is bad because it's for the parents. They're
caring for the kid while you get to do your
own stuff, versus preschool for the child, it's only for
their Enrichmond, who cares what mom is doing? And this
is like what we've talked about so many times, which
is like we can't too, and maybe it can be
(28:10):
for both of us. Maybe there could be a best
of both worlds in here where my kid is actually
getting engaged and taught and learning, and I'm getting to
go to work, build my business, do whatever I want.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
Yeah. Well, and especially I mean just as you know, yeah,
because like and I would even I mean, we do
what we need to do during the days. And you know,
if some people obviously work as a financial necessity, So
I feel really bad that people are making somebody who
really truly does need to go to work for full time,
(28:42):
Like feel bad about that that they're using childcare which
is preschool, like whereas you know if it was a preschool,
it'd be different. But anyway, so off the soapbox. Now
to our listener, if your kid is happy at daycare,
there is zero reason to switch, Okay, like zero. You
are not missing something by not sending her to something
(29:03):
that is specifically labeled as a preschool. She is getting
all of that at her daycare, which you've pointed out
has a preschool program, so there is nothing different that
they are going to do, Like you're gonna learn the
same months of the year. They don't learn different ones
at preschool, Like you're gonna learn the same numbers, You're
(29:24):
gonna certain the same fine motor grip so you can
hold a pencil, Like this is all the same stuff
that they are going to learn. So you do not
have to switch, because again daycare is preschool with wrap
around care. Now, in this listener scenario, the reasons that
she could switch partly if it is a public preschool option,
it might be free, Like I presume it is free
(29:47):
as a public school option, so she would have to
run the numbers on that.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Eh, yes, and no, like we have in Florida, there's
a lot of public PreK programs that are actually not free.
They're oh okay, they're not as expensive, maybe private, but
I don't know. They're sort of incorporated into the public school.
But they're extra cost. Yeah they are extra cost. Yeah,
well so then obviously that changes it too.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
Like then again, there's not really a whole lot of
reason to pull her out to send her to that,
because the problem is you would have to then recreate
the wrap around care that you are currently getting if
you put her in a preschool program. Now, maybe the
numbers would work, Like if it is a free program,
maybe it would be significantly cheaper to hire somebody, But again,
(30:30):
it's hard to get somebody to work a part time job,
like a part time nanny who wants to come in
the morning and then come again in the afternoon. Like
it doesn't there's not that many people who would want
to do that. So probably you and your partner would
be covering one of those, right, Like you would either
bring your child to preschool at nine o'clock and need
(30:52):
to flex your work hours to start after that, or
else one of you would need to end by three
o'clock or whatever the time is for daycare, if you
had help in the morning in order to get the
same wrap around care. Now again, possibly if it is
a public preschool option that maybe you have enlightened legislators
(31:12):
in your area who have created wrap around care for
the preschool, in which case great, then maybe you could
approximate the hours you're getting in the daycare. And if
you wanted to switch in order to have that same
social group of kids who would be going to that
elementary school over the next few years, then that might
make sense. But you need to make sure that you're
(31:33):
getting the hours that you need to to work, and
a preschool might not automatically do that. They'd get you
somewhat of the way there, but they wouldn't get you
all of the way there, and so if you don't
have a whole lot of flexibility, you would need to
figure that out.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
No, that makes sense. Yeah, I wonder if part of
it was the social peace. And then she did ask
about tips for adjusting to the new environment, and I mean,
it's probably if they're used to going to daycare, my
guess is that they're gonna be able to adjust. Okay, Obviously,
any new situation is going to be tough for any
new kid, but probably easier for a kid who's already
been in daycare versus someone who's been home.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
Yeah. Yeah, for what it's worth. I mean, we've had
a full time nanny the whole time, So we wound
up doing preschool starting at about age three for the
other kids, you know, after we left New York, and
we're no longer using a daycare option. Henry, for instance,
went three days from nine to twelve his first year
(32:30):
of preschool, then the next year he went five days
nine to twelve, and now he is doing five days
nine to three as he is four point seventy five.
He'll be turning five in a few months, so you know,
that's sort of the ramp up that we did with it.
But obviously three hours, five mornings a week is not
(32:51):
going to cover your work hours, so you'd need other
care beyond that if you're going to use that option.
All right, love the week. Well, so mine is opening
the window. I have one window in my office that
has this roll screen thing. It's kind of cool, like
you open the window and the screen automatically appears, but
(33:11):
you don't see the screen. When you're just looking out
the window, it's like in the well of the sill,
so you push it up and then there's a screen.
And so it's nice because I can open it. At
this time of year September October, usually during the day
the weather is quite nice. Autumn breeze here, the trees here,
the birds makes me feel like I'm bringing the outside in.
(33:33):
So that's a benefit. And I don't do it obviously
in July because it's too hot, and I don't do
it in January because it's too cold. But there are
some months of the year where it makes sense to
do so I need to remind myself to do it well.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
I will also go weather related, although we are not
opening our windows just yet.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
Maybe ever. No, I'm just kidding.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
Just noticing tiny incremental improvements in the weather is making
me happy right now. Maybe in the month of October,
which is just beginning today as this airs, maybe we'll
get our first morning under seventy. Probably not, honestly, I
think that's more of a November thing. But even if
we start to approach the low seventies on a regular
basis at six am, I will be thrilled. So going
(34:14):
in the right direction.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
Yay, yay, heading into the good time of year in Florida,
the time that everybody else then wants to go to Florida.
So there's a reason people are heading there every winter.
All right, Well, this has been best of both worlds.
It's been a mix of an episode. We discussed our
new morning and evening routines with the school year. We
talked about whining. We went into the difference or more importantly,
(34:39):
the lack thereof, between daycare and preschool except in terms
of total hours offered. Which daycare attends to have the
advantage on that one. But anyway, a lot of different topics.
As always, we love to hear from you guys. If
you have ideas for future episodes, things you'd like to
us to talk about, questions you might have, let us know.
You can always reach me at lo Ura at Laura
(35:00):
vandercam dot com. We will be back next week with
more on making work and life fit together.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah at the
shoebox dot com or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram,
and you.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
Can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This
has been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please join
us next time for more on making work and life
work together.
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